Oh…and he supossedly “confessed”.

Barack Obama and I happen to be of the same denomination. More, his pastor is a sort of friend of the family, as it were. Therefore I know the Senator knows this hymn:

Once to every man and nation, comes the moment to decide,
In the strife of truth with falsehood, for the good or evil side;
Some great cause, some great decision, offering each the bloom or blight,
And the choice goes by forever, ’twixt that darkness and that light.

—From “Once to Every Man and Nation”, James Russell Lowell

This survey question presupposes that “important information” can or might be gained by torturing “suspected terrorists”.

What would the responses have been if the question had instead included the (true!) caveat that under torture people will often say anything they think the torturers want to hear, so that important information is rarely gained from using torture, although it does have the adverse effect of totally trashing the reputation of the torturing government?

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 “Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

The debate on torture showed that conservative Christians could be flexible and change with the times in order to uphold traditional values.

SharonW @
183

I see

Darkblack, that was magnificent! Big, wet, deep kisses to you, baby.

Now, that needs to be used somehow. But how?

Hmmm, if the Dems are unable to stop the Repugnants from passing some crap version of this bill, perhaps it can be used as a basis for pro-Dem advertising of some sort?

Therefore, we the netroots must hereby resolve that:

1. Every Democrat who votes for torture gets a huge target on their back. We hereby resolve that we WILL work to organize primary challengers against EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM in their next election.

2. Any Democrat who supports torture should be opposed for any party or congressional leadership position. We resolve to organize opposition to any such elevation or appointment to higher office for any of the “torture appeasers.”

3. Any Democrat who supports torture WILL be considered a pariah by the netroots, will not receive any endorsements, placements on act blue for fundraising, or any other show of support from the netroots or grassroots of the democratic party.

There’s a way to channel everybody’s anger in the same direction, preempting any bolting from the party and channeling our outrage into the productive “take back the party” goals we have already committed ourselves to at least since the election of Howard Dean as DNC chair. With this kind of statement you can demonstrate that we netroots DON’T and AREN’T going to take this cave-in lying down and will not stand for this. Second, it helps put pressure NOW on those in washington to vote against it.

by My Philosophy on Wed Sep 27, 2006 at 11:34:52 AM PDT

Exactly!!! Exactly!!!
It’s obvious the Dems in power won’t fight the good fight by themselves. If they can’t fight this fight we can’t rely on them for anything OTHER than not being as bad as the repubs.

Support good Dems – make defectors pay. Make it public, stake our position. SOMEONE has to have guts!

If you go to the website of the U. S. Conference of Catholic Bishops you will find a letter dated September 19th, 2006 stating the policy of the Conference on torture, its heading is something like “On the Ethical Treatment of Detainees.” It is as strongly and clearly against torture as most of us would wish it to be. There are lots of those letters, going back to 2003 when they opposed the war in Iraq.

If you rely upon the mainstream media to tell you what the Catholic bishops think, you will be misinformed.