
BREAKING: Suspicious package found at Federal courthouse where Libby hearing was to have been held this morning. MSNBC reports that Fitz had arrived for the hearing along with his team, and they were all evacuated outside the building along with everyone else. Judges have been moved to the federal courthouse across the street. Team Libby had not yet arrived. The hearing will clearly be delayed, if not rescheduled altogether. More as I get it.
There is a big hearing scheduled in the Libby case this morning regarding the CIPA/graymail issues involved in the myriad of classified documents requested by Team Libby. This is where Libby finds out whether hiring his graymail specialist from California (Cline) will pay off or not in terms of the case going forward, the limitations of documents for introduction to the jury and whether Patrick Fitzgerald will be forced to choose between a case going forward that has the potential to reveal damaging national security information or dismissing a case against a defendant that he felt was worthy of multiple federal felony charges for his alleged criminal conduct.
In other words, it's a big one today, and it is likely to be a very, very long hearing.
As I said previously when detailing the intricacies involved in this particular case, the unusual high-level nature of the classified document requests because of Libby's high level placement within the Bush Administration and Dick Cheney's staff, and regarding, generally, CIPA/graymail hearings:
There is already a process set up for classified document review in federal courts. It is governed by CIPA (The Classified Information Procedures Act), which was promulgated in 1980 to streamline cases involving classified materials. CIPA has several steps -- including having originating agencies review materials, reporting to the Federal prosecutor, and then taking that information to the court for review as to what is safe and what is not safe for release...."Greymail" is a term that refers to substantial classified document requests on behalf of a defendant. It's a tactic that is in bad standing with most prosecutors who deal with national security matters, because it puts you in a difficult place at times: defend your case or defend your government's secrets.
Graymail is particularly invidious because it is likely to be most successfully employed by former officials from the heart of the government machine who subsequently face trial.With regard to the "greymail" issue here, this is a complex subject that boils down to this for Team Libby: Scooter had a job that dealt with a lot of high level national security matters. He'd now like to use his complex job as an excuse for committing perjury, but to do that, he has to get access to a lot of the documents that crossed his desk in the service of the Veep. (Shorter Scooter: My job was hard, so you can't hold me responsible for lying.)
Fitz says those docs are irrelevent to the question of whether Libby is a perjurer/obstructor/false statement maker because, frankly, a lie is a lie.
In some cases, a "greymail" defense is a good strategy. Defense counsel are required, ethically, to defend their client with everything they can muster -- otherwise they aren't properly doing their jobs. That is absolutely true -- and if you ever face criminal charges, you'll want an advocate on your side who will do everything she or he can to help you to win your case within the bounds of the law.
In Libby's case, one of his counsels (Cline) has a history of successfully launching client defense based on "greymail" -- for Wen Ho Lee, as one high profile example. However, I would argue along with Fitz that for this case it is a transparent attempt to force a dismissal by over-requesting materials to which the Defendant ought not be entitled (including requests for 277 PDBs, which is unheard of, frankly) because they are outside the bounds of materiality.
Judge Walton has been careful in terms of signalling his hand on this, and he and Fitzgerald and Team Libby will have to go document by document through all of the Libby requests today -- through the entirety of the CIPA process for each and every one to determine admissibility, relevance and all the other questions that require answers before a decision can be made with regard to admissibility of each and every document -- or lack thereof. (More on CIPA/graymail matters here.)
LHP suggests the following analysis in these types of cases, which I think is spot on:
Is this relevant?Is this necessary?
Is there some other way to prove this fact?
This is similar to a motion in limine process that most attorneys who do trial work go through at one point or another. It's just that the information with which these attorneys are dealing is at a much, much higher level, with much stronger protections in terms of not being disseminated for no good reason -- but with a delicate balancing act that the Judge must perform in order to assure a fair and just trial for the criminal defendant as well. As EPU is fond of saying, though, the US Attorney does enjoy a bit of an advantage in these types of proceedings, because national security matters are handled very carefully indeed, with protections for the nation's secrets being ingrained in all the lawyers and judges involved in these types of matters. It's a tough argument on all sides, frankly.
It is also a tedious process, and likely to take quite a while. And because it has to be done "in camera" -- before the judge but not in public, due to the highly classified nature of the documents under review -- we may not know anything about the proceedings for quite some time. To be completely honest, though, this is make or break for both sides of the case: Fitzgerald wins out on his arguments, Libby is more likely to cut a deal, if at all; Libby wins out on his arguments, Fitzgerald is then under pressure to dismiss to ensure the safety of state secrets over conviction for Libby.
What is most likely to happen is that the Judge rules somewhere in the middle, neither side is happy, but the case goes forward nonetheless. We'll see.
As Jeralyn reported last week (bless her, all of this came out while The Peanut was sick!), Team Libby filed a pretrial memorandum with the Judge asserting that:
- Libby will testify in his defense at his trial
- Libby will introduce a powerpoint presentation at his trial
- Libby will seek to introduce his notes made during pertinent times
- Libby will seek to introduce classified documents, including documents pertaining to Joseph Wilson's trip to Niger, which he asserts fall under four exceptions to the hearsay rule.
Jeralyn also pulled information from Fitzgerald's response brief that is well worth a read. There are substantial arguments that Team Libby is going to have to overcome on hearsay issues and others to argue for admissibility of a number of the documents they are requesting -- as I said above, this is likely to be a long, long hearing. Team Libby is claiming that these documents are essential to show that his job was hard, and that made him say untrue things. Fitz and his team argue that no matter how hard your job is, dealing with classified material is no excuse to repeatedly lie to federal agents and a federal grand jury. Period.
But the question is, what will the judge think about admissibility, relevance, hearsay, and all of the other legal questions that are caught up in all of this -- because it is these questions on which the way forward -- or not -- will hinge.
More information on this as we get it today, as always.
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FITZ!!!! (And its even on topic!)
Rayne, I left you a message at the bottom of the last thread. I’m off to work, Christy. I’ll read as time permits today. Good day!
Mornin’ Christy!
Grammar police on patrol - Second to last para:
Team Libby is claimin gthat these documents…
[/grammar police]
OT: Anyone heard from lotus lately?
Give ‘em hell. Make it plain that there are two or more layers of crimes going on and as Fitz pointed out they are both serious.
Also go for it Libby. Your an idiot if you are going to open your perjerous yap to spew all that crap, unless of course your cop’in and testifying the truth as it might save you 5 or 10 years, and it might save us all.
Can we all have a group prayer (or moment of good wishes for those who don’t pray) that the big man in the rumpled suit has the most successful day he has had so far?
Minute of good wishes to commence at 0915 hours.
Synchronize watches ast 9:07. hack!
Go Fitz! Don’t you dare let this weasel slip away.
Ah, Fitz. Good thoughts to you in Court today.
And Christy, may I just say that you have been a powerhouse lately. This whole site, a jolt of adrenalin.
Aw, thanks, Carolyn. Much appreciated. :)
thanks for the lucid guide to the goings-on today, CHS.
mayan at 8 — I’m just glad it was lucid. Not quite awake here this morning, and I was worried I’d thrown in too much legalese. It’s really tough to discuss legal issues in lay terms, but not water down the substance too much and lose the point of it — and I wasn’t sure I’d been able to carry that with this article this morning. So I’m awfully glad it makes sense for you.
Excellent post. You didn’t need to give me a mention.
Thanks to the think to the Jeralyn stuff, I have been a bit sporadic on the net lately and missed it at the time.
I know you had it in a prior post, but what is the rest of the Scheduling Order for this?
I’m curious about the next milestone because it sets, sort of, and end date for these hearings.
I don’t know how big the volume of disputed documents is, but I can see the defense trying to eat up a whole big chunk of billable hours on this because Libby won’t balk at the tab. this is his Hail Mary pass.
They can churn this forever and he will not complain because every minute of argument is another minute of hope for him.
I’m a lurker and I’ve been dying to post this - I’m very excited & my family & friends think I’m nuts - but I know you will understand.
It’s very likely I will be meeting Fitz at the end of October! His parents are from the same part of Ireland as my parents. An old time fraternal/benevolent organization here in NY comprised of natives from that part of Ireland are holding a dance and Fitz is the Guest of Honor.
I think this is another example of what a stand up guy he is. This is not a powerful, well connected organization. It was formed in the late 1800’s to get immigrants set up in NYC.
So he’s willing to take time away from his busy schedule, to hang out with a bunch of old (and not so old) guys and gals, listen to speeches and Irish music and eat wedding food. Wow.
I am going to be like a 13 year old meeting her favorite TV star!
gr8flmo at 11 — see, that sounds like a blast to me, but then again, my ancestors are Irish. *g* So long as you have plenty of Guinness and good live band…btw, do you know who is doing the music? A good friend of mine plays in an Irish band in the NYC area, and I wonder if she might be there. :)
And Christy, may I just say that you have been a powerhouse lately.
I second that. Your skills, passion, and dedication are much appreciated.
op99 at 13 — aw, thanks. You guys are making me blush, now.
Reddhead, Reddface . . .
Good stuff, Christy, and done well for us laypeople to grasp.
Christy
Blush if you must. But just know it’s real admiration flowing to you from out here.
You’re the absolute best! You’re what brought me to FDL, and [mostly] out of the doldrums I’ve experienced since 2000.
You GO girl! ;->
gr8flmo, Lucky you. Meeting Fitz would be a thrill. I’d have to shake his hand and tell him how highly esteemed he is here.
Christy thank you for this wonderful explanation!
OT– Cloture vote supposed to be this evening wrt “Hamdan Legislation” acc to Frist and Reid.
Reid: “One person can stop everything and that is their right”
Is he signaling a filibuster?
Turn on cspan2, Leahy is on fire.
Christy. Do I understand correctly that only one judge is involved, ruling on Libby’s request?
Sorry if you’ve already touched on this. We’re flying low & fast here today, and so far I’ve only had time to skim quickly through your wonderful post.
Christy - Sorry to pile on when you’re already blushing but I’ll take this minute to say that your voice is one of my favorites on the net these days. You present in a way that works well for me and include the perfect number of relevant links!
Thanks for this post and all your efforts! Go Fitz! Come on, Judge Walton, do the just thing! Have a great day (or night as the case may be), everyone!
Nan
Adie at 19 — yes, Judge Walton is the presiding judge in the case, and will make rulings with regard to the evidence presented to him and the arguments.
me to me — you here? left you something downstairs.
So nice to see you working on l’affaire du Plame, Christy, always happy to see you picking this stuff apart for us non-lawyers.
Christy, one of the trickiest things about this stage of the proceedings is how the “I forgot” defense meshes with “innocent until proven guilty.” On the face, it appears that Irving’s been caught expressing untrue statements, but must he prove he forgot? Conversely, does Fitz have to prove Irving didn’t forget, or simply rebutt him? Where does the burden of proof lie, when it comes to this memory issue?
Its the “Fawn all over the ReddHedd hour!”
I too would like to chime in. Thank you for your:
Incisive Analyzation - Christy
Tempered Tantrums - Pach
Sassy Snark - TRex
Cohesive Cuddling - Jane
FDL Rocks….A Home for ne’er do wells and miscreants!
OT– Leahy: I stand here as a US Senator, I am not a Charles Atlas. I have a duty to protect the American people…
Now Frist changes the subject– blah, blah, blah.
Sounds like this could be an interesting day in DC all the way around…
Heads up for another subject, KO will do a chronology prior to 911 today.
Like they say, a gift that keeps on giving.
Christy, how is the little one?
thanks Christy.
Any place you’d suggest for learning more about Judge Walton? Or is that not particularly important.
OT. Today MoDo has a hit piece up on Hillary. I am so tired of MoDo earning her living this way. Enough is enough. I got the message ages ago that Hillary and Bill are not Dowd’s favorites. It’s not as though Ms. Dowd has done much along her way to advance worthwhile things.
In the recent interview The New Yorker’s David Remnick had with Bill Clinton, the latter said, “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.” Something worth remembering.
My thoughts today will be with Mr. Fitz.
Peterr at 23 — Fitz has to show that Libby said something untrue, that he would have known at the time was untrue — it’s tricky to get that mental state information in — which is where, I think, Ari Fleischer and a number of the others with whom Libby spoke in that period where he was also speaking with journalists will come into play. Libby’s team doesn’t have to prove anything — but they do get to muddy the waters and raise doubts as to the veracity of witness testimony and the claim that Libby didn’t “knowingly” do anything. That’s where the memory expert will likely come in if they use him — and where the phrase “reasonable doubt” comes into play.
A lot of this will hinge on the sheer amount of evidence that Fitz has amassed, including Libby’s own notes, notebooks, words to others, etc. — and on how credible or not Libby can be on the stand under oath. (Since the grand jury already found him to not be credible, I’m assuming that the defense team will be doing some serious testimonial woodshedding — and that Fitz and his team will have some pointed questions for him on cross-examination at trial.)
Wow. Thank you for the clear explanation about what’s at stake. It’s a lot less fuzzy for us now. Now, I’m guessing that Fitz anticipated this sort of Hail Mary, but you’ve laid out all the challenges before him and they are formidable, for sure.
What a momentous juncture for so many. GO FITZ. We have you in our highest regard and send you crazy amounts of support and gratitude.
Good morning, Christy, and thanks for the news. I think you’ve done an excellent job of explaining what this is about in a way that is accessible to the non-lawyers among us — and to those of us who are lawyers, but don’t do trial work. It is darned hard to avoid legalese when talking about the law! Speaking of which, for those who don’t know what the usual motion in limine is about (limine? Isn’t that what you use for sore muscles?) this may help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_limine
gr8flmo, I’m drooling with envy. Please do report back to us. Fitz is a true hero for so many of us. Enjoy every moment and have a Guinness on us!
Hmmm, angie I missed Leahy. Do you know what he meant by this?
Thanks, BarbaraB — it’s really tough to walk that fine line between comprehensibility and legal blather. *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 29
Seems to me it would also depend on the GJ and interview testimony - there would seem to be a big difference between 1. ‘I’m absolutely sure that . . .’ or other answers clearly involving certitude and 2. ‘well, my best recollection at this point in time without refreshing by reference to documents is that . . ., but I’m a little hazy on it.’ My experience with good interlocutors is that they don’t let you get away with much wiggle room in your answers. You either end up answering or saying you don’t know, recall, etc. Fitzgerald appears to be a guy I wouldn’t want to play games with in answering questions. Libby appears to be a guy who has gotten close to power, and thought Ashcroft would make this all go away.
Isn’t this also a little bit of throwing Jello at the wall and seeing what sticks? That’s kinda been my take on a lot of this.
angie @ 25
You got that right! The clock is ticking and this is the mother of all elections. Let’s see what prancing sparkle pony Bush and Rove will trot out today. The Maliki, Karzai, Mushareff Show isn’t working out so well. Richard Stone Age Armitage lobbed one into that party photo album, and the Taliban thingy in Afghanistan is getting messy. Oh, and Iraq? Well, not the picnic Bush had in mind this week. Then Chris Wallace, who must have thought he was going to get the headline of all headlines, really screws things up for Rove. Imagine Bill dropping that third corner of the triangle! Who knew? Then we have the NIE leaks, Blair in fade-out, and a few other assorted ouchies. Bush’s tires are springing quite a few leaks.
carolyn urban @ 33
It sounded as though there may be a filibuster coming… He was quite terse.
(Jeffords just gave his retirement speech.)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 34
As one of my favorite legal writers once said, “Latin covers a lot of sloppy reasoning.” *g*
Dear Cristy. Your post on the Libby affair as always excellent and full of good information. I’m learning a lot from you.The explanation of the term “Greymail” is the best example. Keep fighting… I wish I could do some thing from here.
A Spaniard in Montreal
Nice post, as usual. It’s off topic, but interesting:
http://haveskunk.blogspot.com/.....ogram.html
Maybe better, bigger brains could look into it a little more deeply? Thanks.
skunk.
That’s what it sounded like to me, and Leahy is just the man to stand up and do it.
I just watched the last of Jim Jeffords speech, and I applauded him along with the Senate. Tears in my eyes, even. He’s been a great Senator. I drove around with a Thank You Jim bumpersticker for quite a long while.
Ahh, Fitz. The core of the fire-dog passion.
We are obsessed like Labrador retrievers with fallen waterbirds. We have a dogged determination here, and it is to understand and retell the story of Plame/Wilson, Cheney, Libby and others to ensure that the treasonous behavior of this administration is exposed for generations to see clearly.
This is a great day, and we have a great hero in Fitz.
But we also have great heros in Christy and Jane, who would not let this story go.
Sorta OT, but I just called Senator Obama’s office at Atrios’ request. Obama is not up for reelection and has nothing to lose and much to gain in this battle. (202) 224-2854
I called the office and was treated with great respect –
I asked whether Senator Obama intended to speak about the torture bill and they said that there was no plan for a press conference (HA!!) I said, no, I meant on the floor of the Senate. Maybe, maybe not — depends on what happens to the amendments taht the Democrats intend to offer. I said, I expected the emendments to go down in flames and the nice man on the phone agreed.
I then said I thought it would be good for Senator Obama to be a leader on this issue because he has so often talked about the need for morality as an aspect of public life. I then said that torture is the most significant intersection of morality and politics I have seen in my near-half-century. Affirmative noises from the nice man and then:
“I will pass your message along to the Senator….”
Christy should have her own television show broadcast from her home in WV. Seriously. It would be a mix of current events, law for the layman, and down home cooking. I’d replace one of those inane MSNBC shows with it. But it might be a better fit with PBS.
“The Real America with Christy Hardin Smith”
If there are any TV types reading today, get on this please.
and of course:
FITZ!!!!!
The Fitz is in! Time to make popcorn.
I’m not confident we have a chance, I think there HAS to be something in one of the pdb’s that libby CAN use, the president will refuse to declassify and the case is history
sorry
also don’t think we’ll find the decisions of the hearing today, so I’m not holding my breath for information
and finally, if we do win, which I doubt, I expect coprotate media to begin their marketing campaign to get the public on board for a pardon
once the public is on board, the pardon is allready written
by cheney
guaranteed
windje #35 — ah, but Libby et al have not counted on Fitz painting the said wall with Teflon…
I think that Libby’s fate is already sealed if Fitz got an indictment; Fitz was able to convince a grand jury conclusively that whatever Libby said/did was not only illegal but indictable. And Fitz’ track record to date suggests that he doesn’t go for an indictment unless it’s winnable.
Greymail, to my mind, only buys Libby more time. They’re running out the clock until Bush leaves office; look how long it’s taken to get here, from 2003 and to 2007 before the trial starts, and then a year or more of greymail, and then it’s 2008 and Bush is dispensing pardons for everybody before leaving office.
Breaking News CNN — suspicious package at the courthouse LIbby hearing in.
Hi all! breaking - bomb threat at courthouse where Fitz is supposed to be. building evacuated because of suspicious package that apparently a bomb dog gave a positive signal to.
Cynical me…I think its psy-ops to influence the judge. Naaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.
me to me at 47 — And your proof of any of that is what, exactly? The judge has to issue a written opinion, detailing his decisions on each and every motion, the legal rationale therefor, and other issues pertaining to why the decision was made. Additionally, this is not the last say in this matter, because Fitz has a number of other options — which I did not detail in this post because I’m not tipping things off prematurely.
This is a legal matter that will proceed as all other such legal matters do. And all the gloom and doom in the world does not take away from the fact that there are procedures that must be legally followed — and will be in this case as in any other. Period. And any pardon that everyone may be talking about will only come if and when we all stop paying attention, and if and when we all stop pushing for justice. I don’t know about you, but I’m doing the work — every freaking day — to be certain that doesn’t happen, to be certain that they know there is a political price to be paid for this sort of machination — and that that price will be a very public one. So chuck that Eeyore attitude, would you? Because it does no one, including yourself, one damn bit of good.
http://www.rawstory.com/showou.....nes-nation
Los Angeles Times story linked on Raw Story:
A bomb threat at the courthouse? Sounds like high school exam day. Now I know where those kids found jobs after they managed to graduate. Thanks to you guys for watching TeeVee so I don’t have to.
Ni Haou from Beijin! I have not been able to keep up with any of this, but at my first opportunity, I am checking in here!!
Thanks for your good work AS ALWAYS, CHS!!
Mr. Fitz will not be happy with what Congress is doing in the name of justice and that will add fuel to his fire, banked though that fire may be.
Libby’s going to present a Powerpoint?!
Will the man stop at nothing? Is there no atrocity he will not commit!? IS NO JURY SAFE?
(relurking after hit-and-run snark)
BREAKING: Suspicious package found at Federal courthouse where Libby hearing was to have been held this morning. MSNBC reports that Fitz had arrived for the hearing along with his team, and they were all evacuated outside the building along with everyone else. Judges have been moved to the federal courthouse across the street. Team Libby had not yet arrived. The hearing will clearly be delayed, if not rescheduled altogether. More as I get it.
The longer this hearing goes, the better it is for Fitz. Walton does not suffer fools gladly, and he’s had little patience for the antics of Libby’s lawyers. I can see him asking, “How does this show that your client didn’t lie?” to every document that comes along. I don’t think Libby’s going to be in a very good mood tonight.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 53
a little optimism is what I need christy, so thanx for that
/will hold my breath..will do whatever I can to keep public pressure and embarras those who think we shouldn’t prosecute the people who expose our national assets
immanentize @
43
Nice try. I hope it works. This is a truly horrible bill.
OT - on the DUH front - White House: New Iraq NIE Won’t Be Released Until After Elections
Christy Hardin Smith @ 58
Maybe I’m just WAY too cynical, but this would be a great cover for a plea negotiation.
Christy
I really love the way you think!
lina @
44
lina @
44
Whoa - you’re a whole lot more magnanimous than this ole newspaperbrat - Christy is OUR prize here at FDL - do we really want to lose/share her - though I’ll concede she could have a huge audience and bring some class to TV. ;~)
Just saw on CNN the US District Court in Washington DC has been evacuated due to suspicious package.
Neocons at 67 — yep, suspicious package. Post has been updated above.
Outside of the greymail issue as a defense, I don’t think there is much else similar between the Wen Ho Lee case and the Libby situation. In the end, the judge in WHL really got mad at the prosecution and read them the riot act. The judge was a heavy Reagan appointee. It was amazing, his tirade against the Federal prosecution. WHL had been held in solitary confinement for almost a year.
lina @
45
Not to mention heart-warming scenes of child-rearing featuring the irrepressable peanut!
Is anyone else out there picturing Christy rubbing her hands together in anticipation?
It’s almost palpable.
Thank you SO MUCH for knocking this down to a level that laymen can understand.
/fawning.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 59
Well, isn’t that convenient? [/churchlady]
I’m late to the prayer request, but maybe with the bomb threat it’s not such a bad thing to send this one through late. ;)
I have to admit to prioritizing my prayers today and the Libby Trial/Fitzgerald success is kind of down the list - with Leahy & Feingold and the HOuse members who have been working hard on the torture at the top. I had to include one or two for me, too, since it is probably a sin to pray that Graham and Warner break out in large green pustulous pockets of putrid flesh everytime they open their mouths.
thanks angie & Imman. Wigwam - what bothers me is that it is so bad in so many ways that don’t even get a nod bc of the “harsh interrogation” v. “torture” arguments.
twolf1 @ 63
Snort. I wish I hadn’t invoked the Church Lady before reading down a little further.
Maybe the new Iraq NIE will be leaked before the elections.
This has already been mentioned on this thread:
I called the offices of both of my senators this morning [Lautenberg and Menendez], and, with all righteous indignation I could summon, begged them to filibuster the Military Commissions Act of 2006 (the torture bill). I told them that it was unAmerican and immoral. I said that I cannot believe that my country would suspend habeus corpus and would give a blank check to this administration or any other to torture.
I didn’t ask what they would do. I just cried for my country.
o/t
sweeeet!
myspace starts voter registration drive
http://rawstory.com/showarticl.....6DRG2.html
(go Rupert ?!?!?)
Christy, as always you gave a wonderful synopsis that was completely understandable to us non-legal types.
The one question I have that’s been dogging me, and I hope I can adequately frame, it is this: Can the Whitehouse at any time intercede over a piece of classified information?
In other words, as you explained that the CIA has gone through their documents for redaction before presentation to the court, did the Whitehouse do the same? Or does the possibility still exist that in the event that Fitz believes a document doesn’t violate national security and wishes to use it that the Whitehouse could then step in and say “no.” Or has everything been approved for use in court by the parties to whom the information belonged?
OT,
And I know you’re busy Christy but you might look at this later.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) — U.S. researchers said Tuesday that they are starting trials of a new vaccine aimed at wiping out childhood ear and sinus infections and many cases of bronchitis in adults.
snip
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH.....index.html
MSRNC right now -
NIE leaked by “liberal media”
cbl @ 81
I think CNN said last night it first appeared on a conservative blog. I may be mistaken.
Mary @ 73
I don’t know about that prayer being a sin, or if it is, then you’ve got some good company, like Jeremiah, Job, and Jonah. Your prayer also reminds me of an exchange in Fiddler on the Roof between one of the residents of the village of Anatevka and its rabbi:
Q: Rabbi, is there a blessing for the czar?
A: Hmmmm . . . May God bless and keep the czar . . . far away from us!
cbl @ 81
That makes all kinds of sense, doesn’t it? NOT! Is Der Shrubbenfuhrer appointing liberal journalists to positions with access to (inappropriately) classified documents so they have a chance to leak them? And if so, where the hell did they find these guys? There don’t seem to be that many floating around, and the ones I can name seem to be accounted for.
(Shorter Scooter: My job was hard, so you can’t hold me responsible for lying.)
The last refuge of scoundrels? My job is hard, and lying is not an option. (can you tell how much my heart bleeds for Scooter - not!)
thanks twolf, just happened to walk by the box and saw that graphic - I’m laughin’ and I’m cryin’
twolf1 @ 82
More likely everybody at MSNBC is mistaken. Except Olbermann, who found his brains and balls and is running with them.
more o/t
via raw story -
Gallup: more americans blame Bush than Clinton in OBL failures
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0927.html
Win, lose or draw on the Libby case, the current discussions on the Iraq NIE and the selected parts of the ME NIE should really highlight the victory that has already taken place. After the information, now in the public domain, about how the President personally and hands on participated in disinformation of the American public with the pre-war NIE and how he was willing to dribble out cherrypicks, covertly, through media shills like Miller, the whole situation of these NIEs has a very different aspect. Everyone already knows that the President suppressed information that was unfavorable to him and now there is nothing he can release that is unfavorable that doesn’t result in most people feeling there is a strong likelihood that what he won’t release is not so much “secret” as it is damning.
The only reason the President’s direct involvement in manipulation of the information released is in the public domain is bc of the Libby case. If tents fold today, that will stand as a huge accomplishment.
I’m not such a fan in general of Fitzgerald and I’m not even that sure that he would have problems with the current legislation in Congress, but there’s no way to spin what happened with the NIE in any way other than to recognize it was a tremenously important piece of information for the American people to have and he delivered it (with an assist in my book from Judge Walton - it was something that we might very well have never heard with different players in the game).
cbl @ 88
Same thing happened in an AOL poll yesterday, but that was even less scientific than Gallup. (If Gallup is finding this, then the real numbers are probably even worse for Bush.)
aaarrgghh! gotta go
try and check in later
Have a FDL Day !
EvilDrPuma @
87
Just as long he doesn’t step on either of them. ;)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 10
Christy - you are the master at conveying complex legal issues to us non-legalese types. I really hope you you know how much your skills are appreciated. Thanks so much.
Thanks Peterr. I could hear that line being delivered when I read your post. *g*
I like your prayer very much, Mary.
You know just how diseased the republicans are when Jim Jeffords gives his retirement speech after more than 30 years in Congress and only one(1) Republican spoke about him and even that was very abrupt. (Grassley.)
Here we have a deeply principled man who switched from R to I 5 years ago and only the dems laud him.
The R’s are sick and purulent.
Now Kay from TX is railing about the leaking of the NIE and defenderating boosh and praising him for his declassification.
Christy Hardin Smith @
68
Flaming dog poop again?
Balrog @ 96
No, Libby hadn’t arrived yet.
Balrog @ 96
My understanding was that Scooter and his lawyers weren’t there yet.
twolf1 @ 97
That comeback must have been really obvious.
Another little known fact about Balrogs. They make great setup men.