
(Photo credit to Jim Watson/AFP.)
Via Laura Rozen, I find this dilemma:
The report notes that ‘victory’ in Iraq would be a blow to the jihadists, and that failure (especially if it led to the establishment of an al-Qaeda sanctuary or if veteran foreign jihadists dispersed out of Iraq to engage in terrorism in other parts of the world) would also be very bad. Thus, the report highlights the essential dilemma Iraq poses for the war on terror: staying fuels the al-Qaeda-inspired movement, creating a net increase in the terrorist threat; while leaving Iraq in chaos would also worsen the threat. (emphasis mine)
With a push underway to declassify the NIE, the Bush Administration is now saying they "will declassify parts of the National Intelligence Estimate…." Enough of the declassification process being used to cherry-pick in order to do CYA for George Bush. Do you trust this man to be truly honest with the American public — let alone himself?
Accountability. Oversight. Now.
UPDATE: I was on a briefing call with Nancy Pelosi that ended a few minutes ago. Leader Pelosi and the Democratic leadership in the House requested a closed, secret session today to deal with the revelations reported regarding the NIE — which has been shared only with a very narrow number of elected officials in Congress, who are then bound by secrecy rules and prohibited from discussing classified findings contained therein. Here is the text of that request:
Pursuant to clause 9 of Rule XVII of the Rules of the House of Representatives, I move that the House be cleared of all persons except the Members, Delegates, Resident Commissioner, and officers of the House to consider communications that I believe should be kept secret for the present.
And here is a statement from Pelosi regarding the request:
"Media reports last weekend disclosed a consensus judgment of senior officers from across the intelligence community that the war in Iraq was having a serious negative impact on our efforts against terrorism. Rather than reducing the number of terrorists worldwide and destroying the worldwide terrorist network, the war in Iraq is having precisely the opposite effect."These conclusions are reportedly contained in a National Intelligence Estimate published last April. They are precisely the professional judgments that should have informed our debate through the spring and summer on the situation in Iraq and the best way forward. Sadly, they did not, and President Bush has left the public with a false impression about the war in Iraq and the war on terrorism.
"We did not invade Iraq to fight terrorism, as the President would now have us believe. Instead, we are less safe today because the war in Iraq has hindered our ability to make progress in combating terrorism. The reported NIE makes that case clearly.
"As the House prepares to debate critical funding bills for the Department of Defense this week, we need to consider fully the assessments of our intelligence agencies on terrorism. That is why I offered the motion to have the House go into secret session – it is our responsibility, as part of our duty to conduct oversight over the war in Iraq."





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Mornin’ Dogs.
Hey Fredo, the ‘Mercan people just ain’t that into you anymore…
In a word: NO Fuckin’ way.
Wait, that’s three words.
just make sure any Dems you help elect do not turn into enpty, toothless rhetorical vessels like Barack Obama, who will roll over for the repeal of Habeas Corpus and the Geneva Conventions, not to mention the U.S. Constitution he swore to uphold.
Fitz!
What Bush and co. did was simply open up a school of and for terrorists in Iraq. Therefore, leaving or staying doesn’t make that much difference in the long run. The school will still remain open.
You expect him *not* to cherry pick? This is the CYA presidency, facts be damned unless you can spin them into something good. With the puppy dog media and a rubber stamp congress, what can go wrong….
fuck obama.
The report notes that ‘victory’ in Iraq would be a blow to the jihadists, and that failure (especially if it led to the establishment of an al-Qaeda sanctuary or if veteran foreign jihadists dispersed out of Iraq to engage in terrorism in other parts of the world) would also be very bad. Thus, the report highlights the essential dilemma Iraq poses for the war on terror: staying fuels the al-Qaeda-inspired movement, creating a net increase in the terrorist threat; while leaving Iraq in chaos would also worsen the threat. (emphasis mine)
Leave it to Bush to create a lose-lose situation. I don’t think he could pour piss out of a boot with the instructions printed on the heel.
Thanks Bustednuckles, for the new thread heads up.
More incentive (not that it’s needed) to keep pushing to the Nov. elections.
Over at the DailyKos General Wesley Clark…feels that the only chance to stop a strike on Iran is the election of a Democratic Congress in November, assuming BushCo does not manage to start dropping the bombs before the election. The only good news about Iran is that Clark feels there are clear divisions in the Administration, with Rice showing some misgivings about striking, and CheneyCo wanting war with Iran ASAP. The bad news is that with RiceCo wavering, and CheneyCo chomping at the bit, a strike is simply a matter of “when, not if.”
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..125738/074
You bet. I always appreciate it when some one does that.
Twolf1 is usually on top of it.H/T .
Updated the post above, gang. Just FYI, you might want to refresh your screen.
‘victory’ in Iraq.
Define it. A peaceful, economically and politically stable, secure, U.S. compliant (key attribute) single nation posing no threat to the region?
Wish in one hand, shit in the other. See which one fills up faster.
The Bushzies FUBAR’d this thing beyond repair.
_
Dang, there goes my zero. *g*
good for Pelosi and the house dems!
Y’all want to see a really good political ad? Here’s Jim Webb’s newest that Jinny was talking about at the end of the last thread. kerpow!
http://www.webbforsenate.com/home.php
CNN reporting on secret session now.
Awesome news, CHristy!!
Sometimes I get depressed that Americans are easy marks for the right’s daily propaganda “punking” that goes on in this country. My inner Eeyore says that they will make a big stink about “releasing” the report but everyone in the know will know that it’s the selective and favorable parts that got released. The news media asleep at the wheel again.
But after watching Olbermann deliver the truth last night I’m walking on the sunny side of the street today. Maybe there is hope that the house organ can grow a spine. These are the times that need fortitude.
Christy, I appreciate your focus on accountability. We can’t take two more years of this puppet show.
Testify, sister.
RE: Pelosi,via raw story.
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) has called for a secret session to review the National Intelligence Estimate, which some contend has found that the Iraq war has made America less safe from terrorist attacks, RAW STORY has learned.
The House has defeated the motion, 207-170, with just one Republican and one Independent breaking an otherwise party-line vote. Many Republicans and Democrats chose not to cast a vote.
snip
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0926.html
George W. Bush, Cherry-Picker-in-Chief, created the horrific dilemma and no-win situation as predicted.
Pelosi got voted down. Crap!
AP headline “Dems lose vote for closed House session” — yahoo link.
Who else in the mass media newz besides Olbermann will connect the dots?
Franken just had on a woman who said, Iraq was horrible with Saddam; Iraq is horrible now due to the war and violence. Franken says, we here at Air America want to provide a balanced view. Right, Al, it’s a zero sum game. And what about all of the U.S. troop deaths and horrible injuries, to say nothing of the huge bleeding of our economy? (And all the Iraqi deaths). Sounds like he is setting us up for his (and the Dems) equivocation on the upcoming Iran attack: It was bad there before; it is bad there now. No difference; Big deal.
Josh Marshall is reporting that there is another “double secret” NIE that is being sat on. This one deals strictly with Iraq and is not being called an NIE because then they have to share it with members of COngress. We need this one too.
The “dilemma” is only real if it is in fact the case that the US presence in Iraq does indeed forestall chaos. The administration’s “plan” is to remain in Iraq indefinitely.
BTW, it’s not at all clear that leaving Iraq in chaos, which really means leaving with the perception that the war was lost will strengthen al qaeda or other jihadist operations. Sure, they’ll make video tapes in their caves and bunkers saying the US lost to the jihad. But the foreigners will be no more welcome in Iraq than they were in Afghanistan. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where Saudi and Yemeni jihadists will continue to operate in Iraq without Americans to attack.
musicsleuth @
20
Breaking News: Rubber Stamp House doesn’t want to know the truth!
Kerry to Kos…
Senator Lieberman and I disagree deeply and profoundly on Iraq. No matter how much Senator Lieberman pretends otherwise, as we were debating a Senate resolution to change course on Iraq, our intelligence agencies were telling this Administration that America is less safe and more endangered by terrorists because of the failed stay-the-course policies in Iraq. There’s just no excuse for continuing the old line that Iraq is the central front in the war on terror when in fact we know Iraq is a recruiting poster for terrorists while the real war on terror in Afghanistan spirals downwards.
http://www.dailykos.com/
Christy, Nice photo and title.
Also via Laura Rozen, here we go again.
Yes, that Ghorbanifar. The Iran-Contra guy. Yet another serial fabricator, welcomed by the crony filled pentagon. It’s the exact same playbook, they just changed the title from “Iraq” to “Iran.”
I don’t know if this was discussed earlier, but I found last night’s ABC World News Tonight interesting in how they characterized Clinton’s interview. They (actually I think it was George Stephanopolous) seemed to be of the mind that Clinton did this intentionally as a signal to all the Dems, enough bi-partisanship rolling over, it’s time to go on the attack.
Which then led me to wonder…was Clinton so smart as to accept the interview because he knew they’d go after him and this was the one way to get all sorts of media attention to take back the truth?
And further, was Clinton emboldened by the support he realized he had in the blogosphere as demonstrated in his battle with ABC and later in discussions with founders of many of the blogs?
mac users BEWARE
I just downloaded the new security update and it killed YouTube and a few other things.
DON’T DO IT.
Anyone have any ideas how to fix it? I’ve already logged into the Apple discussions page and asked there too.
Congress should be embarrassed that they can be stiff-armed on every piece of Info. FUBAR wants to hide.
If the Rethugs were real patriots, they would tell FUBAR to hand over the Info. or face immediate impeachment.
History is against you Bushites, come to the side of American patriots and fight for our country against FUBAR and his minions before it is too late.
Yesss! Wiretapping Bill in trouble.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..hdA–
Sorry for the horrible link.
well that little bit of good news was short-lived…
an all too familiar feeling these long six years…
It won’t get better until we start leaving or at least announce we are going to leave.
Once its clear we’re leaving, we cease to be the enemy. Once its clear we’re going, the Iraquis will look towards each other and decide what path they will take to a form of government and to dealing with foreign terrorists.
There will be no progress in the absence of a political settlement between the factions. Our staying simply puts off that day of reckoning.
The longer we stay, the less influence we have on that process.
My mother used to have a saying for a person like George W. Bush: “That little shit.”
Imagine a Kansas-to-California nonaccent, a little bit high-pitched, laden with dismissive loathing, but enough interest to be irritated and pissed off. That little shit.
Usually those little shits were teasing the peacocks or driving their trucks over the grass at the corner of the yard or leaving cigarette butts in the driveway. They weren’t sending men and women, each worth more than the little shit could dream of aspiring to, to death and despair in a sinkhole on the other side of the world.
But I can hear her voice in my head whenever President Baby comes on the TV to whine about getting caught being an asshole: That little shit.
1,270 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith:
Let’s not get too excited here, both reports, the April NIE and the untitled NIE (see Josh Marshall @ TPM), will be cherry picked to reinforce the false dilemma that to stay is fucked and to leave is more fucked.
Folks like Mrs. Clinton, Jane Harmon, Rahm Emmanuel and Chuck the Bookkeeper Schumer will use both these docs to push a “stay in Iraq forever with multiple secret staging bases” policy.
I’m afraid that when the Democrats take the congress, the DLC-corporate shills on the Democratic side will coalesce with the administration and attempt to increase troop levels and cement the bases that are right now under private contractor construction. The corporatists will attack the progressives with a “stab in the back” assault and the Democratic Party will be killed from within pavin the way for “moderate” John McCain.
KEEP THE FAITH, THE WAR IS A LONG WAY FROM OVER!!!
1. Victory is not an option however Bush defines it. It is not only that he never had a plan, let alone a clue, but that he never had the 400,000 troops to pull off even if had.
2. The US no fly zone in the north provided just such a sanctuary for al Qaeda before our invasion. There is a sanctuary now and will continue to be one because there is no centralized government that can enforce its power over the whole country and there does not appear to be any hope for one in the near future.
3. The Afghani effect of mujaheddin gaining experience in one conflict and transferring it to another is well known. It is pretty clear this is already happening in Iraq. Jihadis don’t just stumble into Iraq. They need recruiting and support networks in their home countries and the expertise for these is often provided precisely by former combatants.
4. It seems to be part of the new Bush line in fact that despite Iraq making terrorism worse it is actually better because al Qaeda has dispersed and become diffuse. So which is it?
how are we doing to eliminate e voting?
if we don’t do that nothing else here matters
jayackroyd @ 23
And that, alas is the opinion of too many of our own party leaders, too. Franken’s pushing the divided Iraq idea now (Peter Galbraith’s on) with the US hunkering down in Kurdestan for the duration, so we can move back into Baghdad (or elsewhere; Palestine?) if we need to clean things up there. Also, I assume permanent U.S. troops will be peopling the mega bases (mega churches) now under construction in Iraq. What is wrong (right?) with this picture?
Sorry if this has already been posted, but here’s the story that disputes Condi Lice’s little fairy tale:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0926.html
The aide said that guys like me were “in what we call the reality-based community,” which he defined as people who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” … “That’s not the way the world really works anymore,” he continued. “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
Just a reminder.
OOPS…HEY MODERATOR WHERE’S MY POST?
OK thanx
Norske at 35 — well, aren’t you just a little ray of sunshine today? *g* As I’m not in the mood to just roll over and cry uncle, you’ll pardon me if I keep working my ass off to make some changes… :)
And I’ve told everyone this previously, but I’m going to say it again for the record: we moderate as we can, in between writing articles and working and living our lives. We try to be quick about it, but most of the moderators here do it for free as volunteers because they love the blog. Please don’t shout at them or demand immediate release — they are working their butts off, and we really appreciate it — and sometimes it takes more than a minute or two to free things up. Patience, and appreciation, are virtues that would go a long way here. I’m just saying…
I suspect that the Dems will do everything they can this week with an eye towards serving several purposes. One, grab a few headlines on how the Repub Congress refuses to cooperate on key intelligence issues, and two, use up time that might otherwise be spent on getting through key legislation that the Repubs were hoping to campaign on. Three, keep the Repubs on the defensive (this one is huge) as the Repubs are usually the ones on the offensive. When you keep having to explain yourself you’re using up valuable air time in a subjugated position.
Sound right?
Take note of the fact that there are two NIEs, though the second one (which deals exclusively with Iraq) got bogged down on the way to becoming an NIE (FCC “draft” reports, anyone?) because that would have required reporting on it to congress.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001603.php
So in effect the NIE that the NYT reported on, and that they may very well release in cherry-picked form (a’la the WMD NIE “white paper” of a few years back), has already been watered down from the “we don’t even want to admit it exists” draft NIE on the situation in Iraq to being just a portion of the “how I spent my summer vacation fighting terror” NIE that was reported on this weekend.
Both reports need to be made public, in full, before the election. National Security was never intended as a fig leaf to hide incompetence behind, even assuming it was big enough.
–MarkusQ
SharonW @ 28
In hindsight these seem to be reasonable interpretations.
Attack!
Angie at 32 — I don’t think they expected to win the first round on this. And note that I say “the first round”…more as I get it.
Balrog @ 31
Um, woo-hoo?
Catch-22 is all I keep thinking about.
I think the next time someone in the GOP or the administration says, “Well, what’s the Democrats’ plan, huh? Don’t have one, do you? No, course you don’t, cause you’re soft on terror,” I think it is imperative that we respond that the decisions of this administration have created a Catch-22 that does not lend itself to any easy or quick or simple solution. That the administration may have, through poor planning and even worse execution, tied the hands or severely limited the responses available to whoever might be in power – Republican, Democrat or Martian.
Because that’s the truth – our hands have been tied.
What would help expand the chances that solutions can be found and new plans made? As far as I can tell, it has to be accountability and access to information. You can’t solve problems if you aren’t afforded the opportunity to have access to the information, and you learn nothing about how to go forward when you can’t admit that you aren’t making the right kind of progress.
Given how little regard the administration has for the Congress, and how little input we have been able to have, the Dems might as well show up for House and Senate sessions with their hands zip-tied together, symbolizing how their hands have been tied.
christy,
any chance anyone discussed w/ pelosi the dems stance on the torture and wiretap bills the republicans are trying to push through this week?
me to me @ 38
Well, I’m happy to report this about Connecticut:
…more as I get it.
[Hops up and down, affects whiny, petulant voice]
But *we* wanna know *NEOOWWWW!!!*
SharonW (45) and Christy(48): Sweet, I especially like the push back.
a bit offtopic
Judy Barr Topinka (Illinois Republican candidate for Governor) has appropriated “Had Enough?” in her challenge to Rob Blagoyavich.
I don’t know – if a lameo like JBT (waaaay down in the polls despite RB’s less than stellar first term) is using this meme,
maybe it’s not as effective as one might have hoped.
The more I think about it,
It’s the war, stupid.
may be more effective
donde at 51 — yes, and she’s not happy. But I’m not privy to what, if any, strategy they may be working on for them. If I hear anything, I’ll let you guys know.
me to me @ 37
Without this happening I don’t think it will matter a rat’s ass what we do, the fix will be in. Diebold MUST DIE. Sorry I raised my voice, but I’m quite cross.
Mack @ 55
But then we’d have to rerecord the song.
O/T -
Audio mic inadvertently left on in the Oval Office just after Bush went back in after his Pissy Presser.
_
angie @ 39
Condi’s lying? Who would have thought…oh wait. She works for Bush.
If we stop
head bangingfighting in Iraq, we win. (whatever winning is)Get the heck out of there, yesterday.
If we stay in Iraq we need to stop belittling the Iraqi security forces who we need to step up and take over. Since Bushco belittles his own citizens so well this rings painfully true.
Stay out of Iran and that includes air strikes. A million lives were lost in the Iran Iraq war. Are we going to be able to handle that level of ground action? I think not. If we attack Iran we all understand it will not end without a draft.
Oh, and by the way it’s all pure insanity.
After listening to the Democrat/Batiste expose’ on cspan late last night.
Our armed forces are about to fall apart. They desperately need new leadership (Rummy). New recruits have no actual weapons to train with(death trap). The armed forces need at a bare minimum sixty thousand more soldiers to handle the current workload (recruit more foriegners and stop funding all higher education unless kids serve). The military needs a whole lot of money(national credit card). They need more than one percent participation from the citizens of USA. (not going to happen in this scenario)
I have been protesting this since pre desert storm. It’s time to get back in the streets. Writing letters and phone calls for nearly sixteen years *sigh* I don’t know what else to do.
Balrog @ 58
I know – and it’s a catchy little number
Dem response to
“What’s your plan?”
Step 1:
Fire the incompetent
BobbyG @ 59
Oh, BobbyG, you crack me up…thanks for the much-needed giggle!
This must be Rove’s worst nightmare. By all reports, he hoped to focus attention on GWOT, and away from Iraq, while still allowing the President to say that waging the Iraq war is the central front on terror. Instead, he gets several days of headlines and news focused on Iraq, and Bush/Rummy policies in Iraq, not as the cental front agaist terrorism, but as a central cause of growing terror threat.
And Rove hoped to make the President’s “Terrorist Surveillance Plan” and his CIA program for interrogations as the center pieces of the fight against terrorists. Instead, we’ve had more than a week of testimony/commentary about whether the Administration’s dishonest advocacy and continuing/secret practice of torture and disdain for the Geneva Conventions are creating danger for our own troops, smearing our image abroad and encouraging more terrorists.
The President’s party cannot win the elections if these two themes, framed in this way, keep pushing the President’s and Rove’s frames off the news.
We should take every opportunity to spotlight every FDL, Greenwald, dKos and other Spotlight-supported blog/articles so that these two stories, which are devastating to the Bush Administration and to the Republicans’ chance, stay on the front pages.
1,270 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith:
Now dear, yer not the only one whose hindward parts are takin’ a beatin’ and you work is certainly much appreciated…some of us plebs gotta work the landlines and rap knuckles on doors, but we all do our part. Let’s jest remember though that some of the biggest battles yet to be fought are gunna be with the “old money” DLC…the lobbiests and corporate bagmen are already floodin’ Schumer’s coffers at the exprense of the RNSC and the RCCC.
KEEP THE FAITH AND TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER, REPUBLICANS ARE STILL FREE TA WALK THE STREETS!!
scarecrow @ 65
We MUST keep the pressure and the vigilance relentlessly on. I have no doubt that Rove is planning to steal the election, whatever it takes.
_
OT – but not completely
http://www.taylormarsh.com/
Thank you, John Kerry…
A secret session does little to inform the public. Even if Pelosi, Harman, et al, try to hint about contents after the session, the Bushies will jump on that as “damaging to security.”
I fear that Daniel Ellsberg is right–we aren’t going to know what’s going on unless some fearless and dedicated people start to leak this stuff for all they’re worth, and to people in the news business who will run with it.
It’s very important–electorally and politically–that Democrats resist administration attempts at intimidation. As Ellis Weiner said a couple of days ago, if the Democrats can’t stand up to Republicans, of course the public will see them as unable to stand up to the demands of national security.
And everything that hurts Bush directly now will help in November. In both 2002 and 2004, the Repugs made a big show of running on Bush’s coattails and now they’re afraid to be seen with him in public–how ripe an opportunity is that?
Regarding declassifying the new Iraq NIE, I wrote this to my representatives:
Unfortunately, thanks to our experience with the 2002 NIE, it is quite possible to imagine that the “key judgements”, which President Bush has said he intends to declassify, have little or nothing to do with the remaining content of the paper. In the 2002 version, the key judgements were written by Congressman Peter King, not the intelligence community, and seemed to be based entirely on the wishes of the Bush Administration.[1] [2] If he resists, you might want to remind the President of the contents of paragraph 1.7 of his Executive Order (EO) 13292 [3], which includes this text:
(1) conceal violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error;
(2) prevent embarrassment to a person, organization, or agency;
(3) restrain competition; or
(4) prevent or delay the release of information that does not require protection in the interest of the national security.
It’s time for a complete assessment of the failures of our Iraq policy. It’s the very least we owe the people who have died there, and it’s time to let the administration know that it can’t hide from accountability for this disaster by abusing their classification authority any longer.
[1] http://www.fas.org/irp/congres…..72103.html
[2] http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=7758
“The Senate Select Intelligence Committee, in a 511-page report released July 9 [4] , found that “most of the major key judgments” in the 2002 Iraq NIE–which were cited by President Bush and other policy-makers in their case for war–”either overstated, or were not supported by, the underlying intelligence reporting.”"
[3] http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html
[4] http://www.cfr.org/pdf/iraqreport2.pdf
I’m curious if they ever actually check citations from letters, or if I should just bloviate and save myself the trouble.
Anyway, another day, another letter begging my elected representatives to do the job they swore an oath to do.
Feel free to lift any parts of this you want for your own letters.
Josh has Harman’s confirmation of the second NIE document:
“I have also learned that there is a [National Intelligence Estimate] on Iraq — specifically on Iraq — that has been left in draft form at the National Intelligence Council. That is because some of our leaders don’t want us to see it until after the election. It should be clear five years after 9/11 that we need accurate and actionable intelligence — actionable in real time — and we need our leaders to read that intelligence and cite it accurately. Sadly, we’re doing better on the first piece; we’re not doing better on the second piece.”
RevDeb @
29
RevDeb,
What is the date of this update? I remember vaguely having some problems after a big update a couple of months ago. Fixing it involved re-downloading the “Flip 4 Mac” Windows/Quicktime doohickey and then opening up my applications folder, highlighting Quicktime Player, then going to EDIT on the menu bar, pulling down GET INFO—> then clicking the OPEN WITH ROSETTA box.
reboot and see if that helps?
Good luck.
Christy @ 48– I think a perfect storm is brewing, but am a tad impatient and cannnnnnnot abide the fact that the thugs absolutely refuse any oversight of this debacle.
When they hug their families at night, do they even feel a twinge of guilt? When they talk of the dead and the destroyed lives of the soldiers and the brave purple fingered Iraqis and Afghans, are those just crocodile tears that mask their lack of concern for the gross waste, fraud and abuse? When they shafted the elderly and disabled with the Medicare Part D, do they giggle into their money stuffed pockets? When they trade away our rights and condone torture for votes, do they snicker at all of us and the rule of law? I’ll stop now.
argh.
montag at 69 — the rubber stamp Republicans already voted down the request. Which frankly, was expected, wasn’t it? Which makes them look like even more of a rubber stamp. (Do you begin to see the rationale…)
I missed the presser Bush had today, anyone know if its on youtube or any other place?
here Pam–
the WH link here to video and presser:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..926-3.html
OT– Falwell blasting Hill and defending his Lucifer remarks while still blasting Chavez.
good grief, he says Hill has contempt for the military.
Bill Clinton may not have planned on sandbagging Chris Wallace, but the whole thing worked better than anyone could ever have expected. It helped immensely that it was on Fox.
I once heard Nancy Pelosi shut down CNN’s Bathroom Chatterer by asking her something to the effect of whether she was on Bush’s payroll and telling her if she wasn’t, she should be.
montag –
This is literally correct, but I believe the making the motion to hold a secret session had several benefits.
1. It forces the Republicans to vote, again, against effective oversight and holding the Administration accountable. The vote was, except for Shays, strict party line.
2. By asking for a secret session, it preempted claims that discussing the NIE would disclose classified information; it allows Dems to ask for fully declassified version.
3. It keeps this issue, framed to expose Bush and the Republicans, front and center.
It think it was a smart move, even if doomed to “fail.”
Bumper sticker:
Incompetance and Torture are Un-American
Sally @ 77
I saw that. It was that Kyra Phillips person. It was a beautiful thing. I belong to the Love Pelosi camp.
SharonW @ 52
getting this done in states that are not going red aren’t as important as places like florida and ohio
those two matter the most, purple states matter the most
Christy (74), gotcha. More to come….
montag — or to put it another way, the Republicans and Rove had hoped to force the Dems to take the risks of voting against the “Terrorist Surveillance Bill” and the Detainee trails/interrogation bill — and they may still force that to happen — but instead, today, the Dems forced the Republicans to vote against a secret session to consider the most recent intelligence on Iraq and terrorisms growth before making any further judgments/decisions about either, and to do so after the most damaging aspects of the NIE had already been leaked, suggesting that there has been a coverup of bad intelligence information, again, and the Repubicans are enabling it.
Our troops need money to fight a war.
If we reduce the military budget we will play right into rebuplican hands and leave our troops helpless.
Let’s fire http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
scarecrow @ 11:54 pm (#78)
Good points. I’ve sensed a reluctance on the part of the Democrats to get the Republicans on record about things like this. They still may think it’s not to their advantage, but I think they’re wrong. Tying the Republicans to the Iraq disaster and demonstrating that they aren’t interested in fixing it is good politics at this point. An overwhelming majority of Americans realize that Iraq is a problem at this point, and demonstrating with their actions who is responsible is can only help differentiate the political brands.
Mack @ 47
It surely seems like the Dems have opened up that line of fire, now doesn’t it?
Go Pelosi. Don’t give up. Bring out your old “Bush is dangerous” meme.
The war on terror won’t be won by more military diplomacy *ahem* in Afghanistan any more than it is being won that way in Iraq or would be won in Iran.
A big part of the solution, however, could be found in reworking US policies and actions to the rest of the world since the Second World War so that the US actually showed some respect to other nations.
Old Sow @ 88
yes.
Cujo at 85 — it’s not always a reluctance issue — they are severely constrained by the rules in the House as to what they can even propose on the floor in order to force a vote. This was a very highly calculated request this morning, with the words in the request having to be counted in order to fit into a limit requirement (Yeah, you read me right, I kid you not.) When Gingrich took over the House, all of the minority rights were severely restricted immediately to prevent the Dems from being able to launch a counter-insurgency from the floor as Gingrich did. They are now much, much more limited in what they can do — and it is designed to be that way. Which is why I have constantly been harping on the need for Dems to retake Congress. Period.
CHRISTY HARDIN SMITH
You are wonderwoman. I am grateful.
getting this done in states that are not going red aren’t as important as places like florida and ohio
those two matter the most, purple states matter the most
me to me – it’s a mistake to ignore states you think are “safely blue.” Don’t be surprised to see the Blue state of Maryland elect a Republican senator in November. Any state that uses electronic voting, particularly Diebold machines, is at risk.
scarecrow (83), it is such fun to be the players instead of the played.
Re Chavez, when did a Republican ever offer to lighten a poor citizen’s daily load by giving them heat, or anything else, at a reasonable rate?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 74
No surprise there, I suppose. But, it only reinforces my feeling that it’s time for the entrenched bureaucracy to come forward and talk to the press. There are plenty of people out there who know and can prove that this administration’s acting in contravention of law and using the rubric of national security to hide that wrongdoing.
There is safety in numbers. One at a time, the administration picks them off and uses investigation and prosecution to intimidate the others. Hundreds or thousands would be a different matter. It’s probably wishful thinking, but without some very specific truth-telling….
BobbyG @
59
Well, that got the cats all excited!
sporkovat @
4
WORD!
I’ve been feeling this almost since his election. What a beta dog he turned out to be.
jayackroyd @ 71
What? This is yet another outrage! Their hair should be ON FIRE.
Could there be any clearer illustration of why it was such a bad idea to go in the first place?
I don’t see it as a dilemma. Unless there’s any proposal that raises the possibility of “leaving Iraq not in chaos” above the level of wishful thinking, the choices are “leave Iraq in chaos now, leaving in an orderly fashion” or “leave Iraq in even greater chaos later, and with an every-greater risk of not being able to leave in an orderly fashion.”
I’m sure the fact that the other report is kicking around in draft form goes back to the earlier links (a month or less ago) that intel was pushing for a “new” Iraq NIE — pushing probably bc they knew it was done and being sat on.
Balrog – nice news on surveillance, but on that front, while it would be nice to see some show of intellect if not spine, the courts are going to eventually give the smack it needs and so I’m much lesser excite – ditto with Bolton IMO. If not him, some other underqualified overpompous bullyinwaiting. If Bush wants a jerk, as Pres he’s pretty much entitled to a jerk imo. I feel differently about a few categories, but they are pretty small.
I think Harman is working the NIE info much smarter than Pelosi, even if I was very pissed at Harman awhile back (and thank you Marcy Winograd for being the catalyst on that front – Harman is smart and in the right spot and its nice to have her working the right side of the road at least now and then).
The things that are irrevocable are the ones that have my focus, and Pelosi and Reid are doing an awful job. It is irrevocable what happens to a country and military that finally and openly admits that they are torturers. They support torture, like torture, and don’t care if they torture innocent people.
You don’t “change the legislation” a few years later and change the country back. You don’t buy some candy to hand around and undue the deep and abiding hatred that goes hand in hand with that decision.
Going into Iraq was a decision with an irrevocale aspect, putting Roberts and Aliton on the bench were decisions with irrevocable aspects and now this torture legislation is of the same.
Where has Democratic leadership not dropped the ball? I’m not saying give up, I’m going to keep pounding on what I can. I’ve folded myself reluctantly, over and over, back into the “well, we have to support them anyway, at least until we change the Congress in 2006″ basket but to hell with that.
Amnesty for war criminals all around and a country that embraces war crimes – you don’t rectify that with an investigation, that five sylllable word that Pelosi has run from anyway.
The particular candiates that are worth their salt and who happen to be Dems, fine. Otherwise, I’m looking elsewhere. It’s a matter now of saying “vote for the Vichy Gov bc they are better than the Nazis – they collaberate on the destruction of our country and way of life, but they do it with a better accent.”
It’s pathetic and yes I understand the “they aren’t AS BAD AS, but how do you really sink lower than not being willing to be against torture? It’s not that they don’t “have the votes” it’s that they don’t even have a voice.
I wrote this yesterday and will repeat today: The April NIE has already been leaked. The news organizations that received it should publish it, with minor redactions that perhaps a panel of experts could help them make (eg, Scheuer, Clarke, perhaps Stan Turner).
We cannot trust the administration, or the legislative houses it dominates, to release a version that could hurt them.
So enough supplication to our government leaders: it’s time for Pentagon Papers-level courage on the part of our top journalistic institutions. (I don’t trust them either, but I trust Congress, including our Democratic leaders, less.)
Bill Keller, are you ready to put your ass in jail like Judy Miller, but for a far, far more noble and patriotic reason?
PS: I’m old enough to remember when Richard Nixon refused to release the White House tapes to investigators but offered redacted transcripts prepared by his staff. The country called bullshit, and eventually the tapes were released. Can we regain that level of healthy skepticism?
Or to put it in simpler terms, the choice is not between “staying fuels the al-Qaeda-inspired movement” vs. “leaving Iraq in chaos would also worsen the threat.”
It’s “staying fuels the al-Qaeda-inspired movement followed by leaving Iraq in chaos would also worsen the threat” vs. “leaving Iraq in chaos would also worsen the threat”
Russ Feingold weighs in:
via ‘bobthedrummer’ and ‘flpoljunkie’ at DU:
“Feingold blasts Bush’s priorities
Expanding power is an obsession, senator says”
By CRAIG GILBERT
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=503116
Also, apparently Frist will bring the detainee bill to the floor on Wednesday (unless someone places a Hold on it — ahem), with a cloture vote scheduled for Thursday. The border fence legislation will follow the same schedule. Man the barricades.
I have to go, but after the AIPAC decision, it’s asking a bit much for anyone to publish. The Judge already said that under his analysis and approach with the Espionage Act, if Gov had pursued a claim under that act for the Pentagon Papers (the specific example he uses) then the journalists would have all gone to jail as felony violaters of the Act
Worst Congress Ever.
More miltary woes-
Houston Chronicle
Schoomaker is fighting back the only way he can. Good for him!
(Sorry if this has already been discussed, I haven’t had time to read comments on many threads lately.)
Here’s the report from RawStory on Pelosi’s statement after the vote:
Pelosi said after the vote: “I don’t know how anyone could vote against it. What they’re saying by voting against this is, ‘Spare me the facts, spare me the truth.’” So the translated version of this vote is basically, 217 people didn’t want to take the time to read the damn report.
Here’s
“>a YouTube of the vote and an AP article on the doings on this.
scarecrow @ 83
I see the logic of the strategy. But, I see it as working in the `pugs favor–they can spin that move as “protecting classified information.” It’s all BS, but how does it end up being translated in the MSM? In the direction of the spin, I’m afraid. Party line votes work to the `pugs advantage–if the vote gets spun in the news as “Republicans tough on terra, Democrats vote for disclosure of classified information.”
Sorry, but Lily Tomlin was right. No matter how cynical I become, I can’t keep up with the cynicism of this bunch. As long as the `pugs have the general support of the press, they’ll be able to get away with this sort of tap-dancing. Watch for it. My guess is that this vote will be cease to be newsworthy, if it is at all, by the evening news. *sigh*
AP article suggests that the bill on warrantless surveillance is unlikely to pass before the elections.
AP Report on wiretapping
ralphbon @ 100
In response to both your comments, this raises an interesting point. The fact that the whole NIE has been leaked does mean that Bushies are really constrained in how they can cherrypick it. If they release a version highly edited to make them look good, it gives the NYT a scoop telling how badly they misrepresented it, and I think that’ll become the main storyline.
I think it’s more likely they’ll try a “baffle ‘em with bullshit” release, releasing a lot about different parts of the world to try to minimize the Iraq info. (We’ve seen a hint of this in today’s “yeah, Iraq is creating more terrorists, but that doesn’t mean we’re less safe” spin.) I don’t think that will work either, because the papers know that Iraq is what readers really care about, but who knows?
o/t
hey egregious, redshift, and other denizens of The Dominion – have you seen this yet ?
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..009990.php
exxxcellent!
Adrienne @ 92
me to me – it’s a mistake to ignore states you think are “safely blue.” Don’t be surprised to see the Blue state of Maryland elect a Republican senator in November. Any state that uses electronic voting, particularly Diebold machines, is at risk.
Yup, I agree. Besides, I really don’t want to see Diebold slip my emachine a mickey that gets Lieberman reelected, let alone three other Repub members of Congress. You know those three Congressional seats are considered among the possibles in the fifteen needed take over.
I’m not big on prayer, but this might be the time to give her a try. Oversight at last!
Horray for Clinton’s temper!
Horray for the N.I.E.!
Horray for the Generals!
Horray for Olbermann!
cbl– saw it and love it; incredible ad; even linked to it above! Maybe the best ad I have seen. More dems ought to take that route.
GO Webb!
Sally @ 77
I remember it well. Myra, Myra, Myra (Kyra Phillips). That led me to C&L for the first time (girlfriend found it) and then here ; )
I Want My . . .
I Want My . . .
I Want My N….I….E
sorry Angie, just got back and hadn’t even gone through thread yet – just became so excited seeing it over at Josh’s :]
cbl @ 109
Yeah, I was really impressed. I haven’t seen it on TV (most expensive media market in the state and all that), but it’s really good.
(As a side note, I hope the Webb campaign has people who’ve learned the lessons of Crashing the Gate about broadcast vs. cable media buys. I’d love to see the Webb campaign on the air here in Northern Virginia, but I don’t want them spending much on expensive broadcast.)
1,270 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and…
Mary:
Bless your pure heart and you extrordinary mind! Whenever my three remainin’ brain cellz are close ta poppin’ because of the mass of complicated bullshit bein’ dumped in our front yard, I look for your posts.
You are right to give Ms. Harmon credit for the way she is managing the offensive on the NIE’s and, by extension, the Democratic political response to Iraq. But let’s not get to trustin’ her…
That said, you are absolutely right about tryin ta focus our attention on Pelosi and Reid and their apparant cavin’ in on torture and illegal surveillance. I wonder, however, if maybe they don’t have the fix in with a couple a big hitters in the senate (Feingold and Bird come to mind) to put a hold on both bills or a consolidated bill and fillibuster for one day to kill the action until after the election. Just sayin’ maybe…
KEEP THE FAITH, THE FASCISTS DON’T HAVE ANY AND OBAMA DOESN’T REALLY GIVE A SHIT!!!
OT, but I found this (via 3 Quarks Daily) to be effing scary. One more reason why it’s vital to take down the authoritarians in November.
montag — I’m not predicting this particular vote will still be news a week from now. All I’m suggesting is that forcing the vote, and the straight party line of the vote itself, will be a prominent story tonight, and perhaps even get a few trailing notices for a few days, and that is a victory, because it forces more preverse spin from dominating the news — which was Rove’s “we control the news” agenda.
Even a story like this — Bush disputes Iraq makes terror worse, — is a small victory, because having the President deny what much of the country already believes, and has now heard is confirmed by intelligence agencies, is not what Rove wanted Bush doing today.
Also, I don’t see how the Repubs can spin this as the Dem’s wanting to reveal classified information, when Sen. Roberts, the Republican head of the Intelligence Committee, called for declassifying the document, when Bush has directed Negroponte to do that, and when Pelosi called for a secret session. I’d say you can’t be any more covered that that.
cbl– sorry? goodness, the more that ad is seen by people the better! :0
OT
Tried leaving a “stone” on the thread “come as you are” but i can’t seem to load the comments page (using firefox).
Anyway, I’m an avid reader but don’t typically participate in comment threads unless I ahve something especially useful to add …2 young kids at home and not a lot of time to spare.
to the FDL community, your energy is infectious…keep it up…
Linda LindaR @
34
That’s the best thing I’ve read all day. Loved it! Thanks. ;-)
Just dashing in to say the documents contradicting Rice are up now on Raw Story. Sorry no linky, but I’m really rushing. How can you tell when a member of the Bush Admin. is lying?? Their lips move…
If it walks sounds like a quagmire, talks like a quagmire, looks like a quagmire, sounds like a quagmire, barks like a quagmire, hisses like a quagmire, quacks like a quagmire….
Guess what folks?
The insurgency must be in its last throws and there is little doubt that victory is just around the corner.
(A public service announcement brought to you by BushCo. Inc, a subsidiary of Haliburton International)
Clinton TV interview energizes GOP, Dems
“That wasn’t a question, it was an accusation,” said Clinton spokesman Jay Carson. “He knew exactly what he was doing and we knew exactly what we were going to do if he did that, as we suspected he would.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..NlYwM3MDM-
hey guys, the comments link is sending us to c & l
http://fdl.intoxination.ath.cx…..lue-skies/
Bill’s bringing it home now with the strategy on Al Qaeda papers. Hehe.
TheOtherWA @ 105
Fred Kaplan at Slate also has this story.
me to me at 125 — it’s a cache problem issue. If you refresh your screen, you should be in good shape. We had a hiccup earlier. HTH!
Marion in Savannah @ 123
Here’s the link:
2001 Clarke memo contradicts Condi Rice claim
scarecrow @ 119
As in
“I am not a crook.”
Christy Hardin Smith @ 12:04 pm (#90) – I hadn’t realized things had changed that much. I’d say this is another example of how Republican leaderships’s attitude is that there is one set of rules for them, and a different set of rules for the rest of us.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0926.html
Leaving Condi in that
“It depends by what you mean by comprehensive mod
Not a winner for Condi/BushCo
LOL House aide resigns over fake blog posts
snip
Posting as IndyNH and IndieNH, Furtado professed support for Democrat Paul Hodes but scoffed at a poll showing him tied with Bass and suggested Democrats should invest their time and money elsewhere.
snip
“I am going to look at the competitive race list to figure out where to send another mydd.com/netroots donation and maybe help out in other ways,” IndieNH wrote. “Maybe CT or NY for me — they are at least close by. Anyone interested in pooling NH efforts for some of those races?”
Laura Clawson, who runs “Blue Granite,” and Michael Caulfield, who runs “NH-02 Progressive,” said they were suspicious of IndieNH’s postings from the beginning.
“You see this all the time on political blogs, some elaborate act where someone says, ‘Now, I hate to say something against a Democrat, but,’” Clawson told the Concord Monitor. “So you develop an eye for it. And this poster definitely tripped all the wires.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..NlYwM3MDM-
OT but check this thing of beauty out that Dru just sent me! Senator “Who Am I?” must be shaking in his cowboy bootz:
http://www.timesdispatch.com/s…..9190830866
Mack –
As in
“I am not a crook.”
Yep. Kinda stays in your memory, doesn’t it!
I’m waiting for “I did not lie and mislead the country into war.”
The closest we’ve had was something like, “The United States does not engage in torture.”
Anne post # 50. I agree. I am tired of having the democrats look shook up when this tirade about our plan begins. The answer needs to be strong, and direct. 1) We need to get all the information that is currently withheld or classified 2) we need to take time to study the situation and come to a careful plan. We cannot address a solution without the full information. This signals a new message from the democratic leadership which is studied, and carefully planned in opposition to impulsive and not well thought out. All the dems stutter in answer to this question and none feel certain of the answer. You don’t have to have the solution, you just have to have the answer. The answer is that we must have all the infor to make a plan.
(that will only come with a dem in office).
Documents refuting Rice now up on Raw Story? Spotlight ‘em to Wolfie, gang. He’s touting Rice’s pushback against Clinton for his SitRoom promo right now.
Whoa, Karl is really off his game this week. What happened to the “Attack! Attack! Attack!” strategy? Bill has Condi on the defensive, and George is trying to keep the NIE under wraps. Here’s hoping Harry shuts down the Senate again. This is better than a soap!
lurkers/readers – FDL 101 – this is what commenters mean when talking about “concern trolls” on the threads -
I am confused.
The war in Afghanistan was against the Taliban and Al Qaeda. The Taliban supported Al Qaeda. The Taliban were removed from power and Al Qaeda was beaten up pretty thoroughly at Tora Bora. That was The War on Terror.
The Taliban are now fighting ferociously to re-gain control. This is not, in itself, terrorism. How is the current conflict in Afghanistan equated with “The War on Terror”?
Does the Taliban still support and harbour Al Qaeda? Are there terrorist training camps in Afghanistan? What is the mission in Afghanistan?
So, what exactly is “The War on Terror”?
Praire — do you have the spotlight link when using other blogs. Can’t find where I parked this. thanks.
my jaw dropped when I read that story yesterday am – that an officer is doing this publicly seems to be a very big deal – has anyone seen it on the Broadcast news programs ?
keep waiting for HSAT to show up and confirm this is seismic
“declassified” NIE supposed to be out any minute now… cnn
video of “lie down” protesters singing in senate office bldg with arrests today.
wtf ? double post ?!?! @^%$@#%&%
sorry guys, things are definitely wonky on this end when I hit refresh
Ms/Mr Mod Squad – will you kindly delete one of them when you have chance ?
thanks!
hpschd at 141 — if you read the Newsweek article I linked in the last post (the one in the Taliban quote portion — I think it’s the second or third quote down), you’ll see that al qaeda is now operating openly in some areas in conjunction with the Taliban. We are ceding areas back to them in Afghanistan because our resources are tied up in Iraq. We didn’t finish the job in Afghanistan. We took our eye off the ball with regard to al qaeda there and in Pakistan. We shipped our most useful resources in the form of CIA and special forces squads to Iraq. And we made a mess of the occupation in Iraq — for years.
Heckuva job, Bushie.
angie @ 144
“The war in Iraq has [redacted] helped us fight terrorism.”
“The war in Iraq is [redacted] going well.”
Etc.
angie @ 12:53 pm (#134) – I don’t know about Wilkerson’s political affiliations, but Zinni has identified himself as a Republican at least once. Here’s an MSNBC article that says so:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5113717/
Haven’t used Spotlight myself, scarecrow. I send from my email.
Cafferty connecting dots for Wolfie that the NY Post and Fox are both owned by Rupert Murdoch. Bwahahahaha….
Now if we can just make sure Wolfie reads the Raw Story material before he does his “full story on the Rice Clinton feud” in the next hour.
Cozumel @
134
Oh, this just has me furious, yet another reason to vote against Bass. Republican dirty tricks, yet again, in NH.
*hacks up a beardly hairball*
Praire — it appears Spotlight does not yet support Rawstory.
angie @ 1:05 pm (#143) – “declassified” NIE supposed to be out any minute now… cnn
Is this the “key judgments” or the whole thing in redacted form?
Hypocracy defined:
Bush dismisses Clinton critique as “finger-pointing”
By Matt Spetalnick
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Bush on Tuesday dismissed as “finger-pointing” criticism from his predecessor Bill Clinton of his counter-terrorism efforts in the months leading up to the September 11 attacks.
Clinton, angrily defending his own administration’s attempts to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, had accused the Bush administration of doing far less to stop the al Qaeda leader before the 2001 hijack plane attacks.
Bush, who is trying to stave off a Democratic takeover of Congress in November, seemed to bristle when asked about Clinton, only to sidestep his assertions.
“We’ll let history judge all the different finger-pointing and all that business. I don’t have enough time to finger-point,” he said at a news conference with Afghan President Hamid Karzai.
snip
http://today.reuters.com/news/…..-topNews-3
Asshole.
fingerpointing = accountability
from the linked docs refuting rice, if these goons had done enough wrt Pakistan and their Taliban and had funded and helped Masoud and the Northern Alliance well, then, um– perhaps none of any of this would have happened… ;( Not new news, but good to see the documents.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0926.html
Nobody knows yet, Cujo @ 152.
Situation Room e mail – in case ya can’t get Spotlight to work w/Raw Story link
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?65
Cujo359o – FWIW Tony Zinni may in fact be a Republican, but he’s a forthright, honest guy – and at the time, was the only one to stand up publicly for Gen Shinseki – he also critized going in to Iraq and wasn’t merely asking for more troops – he was in the Odom camp that said it would be an unmitigated disaster. Further, they have been unable to swiftboat/discredit his ass these past 3 years –
now someone will post a link in the next few minutes that shows him playing cards with Cheney once a week or something equally abominable, but as of right now, publicly, he’s a stand up guy
O.K., I’m paranoid. Why did Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld choose to lose the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Afghanistan was going so well after we invaded but had a way to go before troops were diverted to Iraq and now Afghanistan is being ripped by the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Iraq would have been pretty much a (hard) win if serious planning for the occupation had been done. These thugs worked at losing Afghanistan and Iraq.
Re Army Chief of Staff General Schoomaker balking over the Army’s budget plan, someone has suggested it’s a ploy to get more money. In this environment, everyone’s motives are suspect. Thanks, George.
Here’s a new addy for “all the latest political news” that invites tips, etc:
politicalticker@cnn.com
Let ‘em know about Raw Story.
hpschd @
141
Thanks to George W. Bush, it depends on who you ask. We know who is responsible for the terror of 9/11. They have admiited it. You’re confused because that’s the way George wants it.
Bustednuckles @ 153
Good One – He only has time to mountain bike 50 out of 52 weeks a year….
The bigger question is why did they choose to go to war in Afghanistan when investing in positive social change, better intelligence, diplomacy and respect might have taken them farther?
Sally– they want empty space(free of those pesky brown people who hate to be invaded and occupied) and a permanent presence in the oil soaked lands– it’s Empire and Imperialism 101.
That is my most honest and humble opinion.
True, Old Sow.
Okay, re the refutation of Condi Rice, maha has a long post up on dKos.
Condi lies to Rebut Clinton
And Spotlight does support dKos. Just paste the permalink for the maha dkos article into the space for Spotlight, which is here, I hope
cbl @ 142
This is, I think, largely theater. Remember that Schoomaker is Rummy’s stooge–Rummy convinced Schoomaker to come out of retirement for this job.
The second consideration in this is that it plays into the “DoD always needs more money to make us secure” routine. Giving Schoomaker another big boost for his budget after huge increases since 2001 only enables this war to go on. Let’s not forget that military spending–separate and apart from war appropriations–has gone up by 67% since 2000.
Beyond that, the $18 billion or so that Schoomaker wants for equipment replacement in addition to increases in the regular budget in the past couple of years was, in large part, already included in supplemental war requests last year and this year.
There’s something else at work here, and I strongly suspect that because this is an equipment request, it’s meant to hide a huge waste of money already expended on R&D for Rummy’s new Future Combat System debacle. That has already undergone a huge reversal of concept that means a lot of wasted money. The other possibility is that money that should have gone to equipment repair has been pissed away on private contractors without the desired results.
Keep an eye on this one–I’ll bet a steak dinner to a doughnut that this will turn into yet another procurement scandal in a year or two, if Schoomaker gets what he wants. And don’t be deluded about Schoomaker being in defiance of Rummy. I’ll bet they’re tag-teaming Congress on this one.
I’ve also noticed that C&L now has a Digg button for us to use.
scarecrow says:
September 26th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
Right up there with ‘You won’t have [me] to kick around any more.’ (1962, after losing to Pat Brown for CA governor)
One question the GOP likes to ask is “do you want o return to Saddam Hussain?” But I think this should a legit question. An area not getting much attention is how Iraq and Iran are best pals now that Saddam is gone, and that our screwing with Iraq has emboldened Iran with fantasies of a Shia lovefest once the occupyers are vanquished. But under Saddam, Iran was kept somewhat in check, and if we could have turned Saddam, we would have an ally against Iranian nuclear ambitions. IOWs, Deposing Hussain was a large tachnical mistake on the geo-political stage as well in many other areas.
cbl @ 1:20 pm (#155) –
I agree. What I was getting at was that this was obviously something more than partisans posing as experts or character references. Those three men have differeing political views, so it ought to be a more convincing endorsement.
As for the swiftboating, I suspect it will begin in earnest soon. They’ll probably be counting on the fact that no one remembers that the Bush Administration asked Zinni to be the Middle East negotiator in the early months of Bush’s presidency.
meta @ 165
I noticed that, too, but I have no idea what a Digg button does. What does it do?
Iran and Iraq were in check already. They just refused to obey. (Can you blame them?) There was no need to make a war.
That said, I don’t know where to start to fix what we broke: we need a new dialogue altogether. But ceasing to trade in arms and bringing our troops, weapons and munitions would be a great place to start.
Pervez whining: It’s not Pakistan’s fault and it’s all Karzai’s fault. wwwaaaa. (on cnn)
Musharraf: Karzai is “turning his blind eye as an ostrich” (?)
good grief. bad blood all over the place.
I think it was Teak 111. I did not like Saddam and he was beastly, but he was so weakened as were his people by the sanctions, that I think change would have come with vigorous diplomatic efforts, easing of cruel sanctions and regime change would have come from within.
It will be interesting to see how long it takes for CNN to revise it’s reporting on Secretary Rice rebutting Clinton, to reflect the information about the Clarke memo (from the maha/dKos and RawStory posts.
If anyone hears Wolf Blitzer or others update the story, please let us know.
(I just Spotlighted the dKos post, with a link to RawStory, to Blitzer and 9 other CNN reporters and anchors who might be working on the same story.)
Our dear leader:
That’s why he has FOX news and ABC do the fingerpointing for him. So much easier that way. Leaves him more time for Presidentin’.
SharonW @ 169
SharonW, it’s a kind of a social marketing site. If you hit the Digg button, you get an article recognized. It’s then voted on by a bunch of Digg power users, and it if gets a good rating, it makes it to the front page, therefore boosting its visibility. If you go to the site, there are several categories. Here’s the “world/business” caregory.
http://www.digg.com/view/world_business
It’s kind of an interesting breed of push and pull.
Mary @ 99
Only criminals need immunity. So tell us Junya, why do you need immunity?
New Thread.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..d/#respond
The last time the Administration used the argument “we shouldn’t be finger-pointing,” was right after Katrina. Using it now is a sign they realize how vulnerable they are for being blamed for something awful. IMO, this language is not accidental, nor was Condi’s appearance this a.m. They have to divert the story away from “Iraq is making us less safe.” If the CNN story can be changed to suggest she “conveniently forgot” what Dick Clarke told her, that theme will continue, and this becomes a major accountability moment for this Administration.
I suggest those of you who know how to do it go over to the dKos story and Spotlight all over the major media; and add a link to rawstory in the comment. It may be too late for tonight’s network news hours, but we can still catch the cable shows and tomorrow’s newspapers.
SharonW @ 127
This isn’t exactly what they’re talking about but, it’s close enuf for horseshoes and hand-grenades
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/N…..index3.htm
Prairie Sunshine @
158
Tok your advice and sent them this: