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Here’s the lineup for the Sunday Talking Head shows. Read it and weep:
ABC’s "This Week" — Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn.; New Jersey Senate candidates Sen. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., and Republican Tom Kean Jr.
CBS’s "Face the Nation" — Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
NBC’s "Meet the Press" — Former President Clinton; Afghan President Hamid Karzai; John Danforth, former senator and U.N. ambassador.
CNN’s "Late Edition" — Karzai; Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa.; Rep. Jane Harman, D-Calif.; Iraqi President Jalal Talibani; Alexander Haig, former secretary of state; Richard Holbrooke, former U.N. ambassador.
"Fox News Sunday" — Former President Clinton; Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.; Dr. JoGayle Howard, National Zoo panda doctor.
In case you missed it, Crooks and Liars has some footage of Chris Wallace’s smarmy attempt at CYA damage control for the Clinton interview from yesterday. Funny, no mention of the fact that Wallace welched on the deal that he and Faux News made to get the Clinton interview, wherein the topic of the first half of the interview was to be the Global Initiative conference that had just concluded (which, btw, Wallace’s boss Rupert Murdoch attended, and pledged a bunch of money to as well).
Wallace welched. His producers allowed him to do so so they could milk the footage for ratings. And now Faux News is trying to cover their no journalistic ethics asses by portraying President Clinton as "crazed" for calling them out on the fact that they are liars who can’t be trusted to live up to their hollow word. (ThinkProgress got a screen grab of the "crazed" label they were running with until they got called on it. Pathetic.)
So, to re-cap: You are Chris Wallace. You make a deal. You break the deal. The person with whom the deal was struck calls you on it. You call him "crazed," even though you are the welcher. And then you wonder why people question your lack of journalistic integrity. (Crap "journalism," alive and well. Faux news.)
Amusing story for you guys. I hear from President Clinton’s press secretary Jay Carson that after the interview Wallace literally ran — RAN — out of the building after the taping was completed. Jay had to chase him out of the building to try and talk with him about Wallace’s craptastic lack of ethics the interview. Pa.the.tic.
Next time someone wants to play chicken shit bingo, I’ll suggest they call Chris Wallace.
It is probably too much to hope that Jack Danforth will discuss the immorality of the so-called "torture compromise" on MtP, but we’ll see whether it’s politician or the right reverand who shows up this morning. Looks like McCain and Graham are pimping out their newfound spelunking credentials on the Sunday circuit as well. Here’s hoping there aren’t any more issues to cave on of national import between now and the end of the week when the rubber stamp Republican Congress is giving itself yet another chunk of vacation.
Oh yeah, wait, the GOP leadership has scheduled all of the budgetary items for defense and homeland security this week to make themselves look tough and big on security. Guess we oughtn’t expect any accountability on war profiteering this week, eh?
Today’s bird is a turkey. (No particular reason, why do you ask?)
PS — Have I mentioned lately how much I love Digby?
PPS — Welcome to the folks that KLo sent scurrying over from the Corner. Just to clarify, I did something that I find useful in a contested fact situation — I went to the source and asked questions. The information provided above by the Clinton Press Secretary was provided at my asking. Unlike some folks, I neither take nor follow marching orders. Thanks.
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Jeez, you’re at it awfully early!
We have turkeys right up the road from us, several flocks wander around the wooded areas of town. Nice to hear them gobble when we’re working in the back yard & garden.
Can’t wait to see the full interview with Bill. I wonder if/how much editing has been done to CYA on Fox’s end.
SteveNS — have I mentioned there is a 3 year old who likes to get up early in my house? *g* (Plus, I’m on the East Coast.)
Christy — I’m single, so I always neglect to account for the Peanut Effect!
:-)
Christy -
There is hope! My 4 & 5 year olds are still mostly asleep. I’ve got a debate on the 10th, so my mind starts racing around 4 am and I wake up.
isn’t today oberman day
what time is that, I plan on dropping everything to stop by and thank him for his service
From a letter Ben Franklin wrote to his daughter about the eagle and not the turkey being the national bird;
“I am on this account not displeased that the figure is not known as a Eagle, but looks more like a Turkey. For the truth the Turkey is in comparison a much more respectable bird, and withal a true original native of America . . . He is besides, though a little vain & silly, a bird of courage, and would not hesitate to attack a grenadier of the British Guards who should presume to invade his farm yard with a red coat on.”
http://www.fi.edu/franklin/birthday/faq.html#21
Olbermann day is not until November.
Until then, I can’t wait to see the Big Dog bark!
Peace to you Christy, and speedy health to the Peanut
me to me at 6 — Olbermann will be here to chat on Nov. 5th. Today we are talking about Sidney Blumenthal’s book “How Bush Rules” Chronicles of a Radical Regime.”
Wow, that Digby takedown of Jennifer Senior goes well with my morning coffee.
Redd,
Wallace begins his description of the Clinton interview “We started off fine, we ‘re talking about the initiative and his efforts , and then I said, because I had gotten a lot of e-mail…”
Welched? I’ve read the transcript. Wallace isn’t welching, he’s reciting.
And lying his fucking head off.
Cute turkeys. Great color!
oddball @ 8
shux
ya, I can’t wait to see it either
however we are going to need proof walllace sandbagged bill
wallace is CLAIMING the deal was equal time for both, not partitioned first half and second half
so we need some kind of offcial statment from the clinton camp, hopefully they can show something in writing so we can call wallace a flat out liar instead of just saying it with nothing to back us up
don’t forget;
these are neo cons, if I ask them who they believe without proof, clinton or wallace they will say wallace, they will say clinon has proven he lies,l even under oath
so if there is documentation ocncerning the aggreement, we sure could use it
Here’s an idea.
Make an outfit like the electrode-wearing guy on the box. Fold it up, nice and neat, and put it in a briefcase. Go to the Senate office building — you can walk right in, putting the briefcase through the X-ray machine. No problem. Head for McCain’s office. Find something to stand on. Don the garb and pose in front of the senior senator from the great state of Arizona’s office door. Have a friend or two snap the pic and leave.
I don’t think it is illegal. If it is, just do the same trick in front of the WH. Free speech is still allowed outside the building, right?
We need to pin the tail on the elephant in the room.
Bill @ 12 — Don’t forget the “Approved By… “(Bush, McCain, whoever) sign.
Bill @ 13
great idea!
Bill at 13 — I highly doubt that a briefcase full of wires would be allowed past the scanners who do security for the building. It wouldn’t at the federal courthouse here, so I sincerely doubt the security would be less lax at Congress. Just FYI.
And nice to see you out from behind your shell. *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 16
There is always string or yarn…
“pin the tail”
“turning tail”
EXCELLANT
we NEED to call it like it is and lay this thing RIGHT ON HIS DOOR
we need to change the terms and start calling his actions TURNING TAIL
if we can do what rove does, controll the terms used in the discussion we MIGHT be able to get mccain to do what’s right
ESPECIALLY if it looks like an image of him TURNING TAIL would LOOSE him the election
Wouldn’t need too many wires or other metal — a couple of alligator clips for the fingers, which could be faked with a paper binder, holding real paper. Pair of earphones for the ole’ iPod would get through. Strip the wires in the bathroom, and you are ready to go.
The problem I have is finding a box to stand on. Might be that the picture is just from the knees up.
Bill says:
September 24th, 2006 at 5:43 am
Here’s an idea.
Make an outfit like the electrode-wearing guy on the box. Fold it up, nice and neat, and put it in a briefcase. Go to the Senate office building — you can walk right in, putting the briefcase through the X-ray machine. No problem. Head for McCain’s office. Find something to stand on. Don the garb and pose in front of the senior senator from the great state of Arizona’s office door. Have a friend or two snap the pic and leave.
I don’t think it is illegal. If it is, just do the same trick in front of the WH. Free speech is still allowed outside the building, right?
We need to pin the tail on the elephant in the room.
Quote This Comment
14
SteveNS says:
September 24th, 2006 at 5:45 am *
Bill @ 12 — Don’t forget the “Approved By… “(Bush, McCain, whoever) sign.
We need to spend more time getting poor, elderly, female and other motivated allies pulling levers. Costume parties on the Capitol steps are SO last Friday.
Five weeks, pups!
does anyone know where the case is that releases the pictures and video tape of abu graeb?
last I heard the judges said they had to be released, I know that didn’t happen, so what did?
ET — we are many, and the tasks before us are numerous. I am in the camp that feels this is one of the battles worth fighting before the main event in November.
Torture becomes the law of the land by Friday. One week, pups!
I’m off to watch the morning shows. ‘bye
Repubs still obsessed with getting Clinton.
Can’t wait to hear the silence from the National Security Party, the party that “got” 9/11, the party that is tough on terrorism, when they wake up and read that the NIE states that Bush’s folly in Iraq has caused terrorism to grow (not that we haven’t known that for three years now, knew it would do so before the war even happened).
My prediction: It will be Hillary’s fault for voting “for the war.” (A vote I do not forgive her for, btw, but the pa.the.tic nature of the Repubs blaming Dems for the failures in Iraq – well, what can one expect from the Party of Personal Responsiblity!)
me to me @ 21
I don’t know where the case is, but I do know where the guy that blew the whistle is, and he needs your help!
Noonan @ 25
he will have my help
I hope someone can tell me what’s happened to the case though
So this is Rove’s plan, eh? It seems to be working so far this Sunday morning at FDL.
I’ve come to realize overnight how elegantly cynical and – quoting Hugo Chavez – “evil” the scenario for the next five weeks is going to play out if we let these people play us.
I am not saying “Torture, Schmorture.” I’m saying “Is there a narrative here we can control despite the hamstrung situation the Dems have so deservedly found themselves in?”
Corruption
Inefficiency & waste
Incompetence
Those are the things we cannot be distracted from.
Btw, Wallace didn’t happen to mention when and how Bush captured or killed bin Laden, did he? Because I haven’t heard anything about it.
One would think that would have made the news, especially on FOX.
Does Wallace in the interview explain for the audience why bin Laden was so important when Republicans were accusing Clinton of trying to create a phony issue of terrorism BEFORE 9/11, but AFTER 9/11 they agreed with Bush that that he is of little concern?
Clinton’s mistake: saying in the 1990s that bin Laden and terrorism are the biggest threat facing the country. That only brought snickers and derision from the National Security Party. He should have said, “Bin Laden? I’m really not that concerned about him.” THAT would have made him The Protector Daddy National Security President (and caused him to go after someone else entirely!).
Dumb-Dumb Clinton!
me to me @ 26
Thanks a ton! Kelly and I are hoping to be part of a Progressive wave taking over Madison in November. The support we’ve received from the blogosphere has helped offset the money being funneled to our opponents through Bush and Cheney’s stops in the area.
Christy:
Thanks again for your yeoman service to the cause.
Digby, yes! AND Bilmon!
Ed*uard: (#27)
Right.
Bill @ 22
bill speaks for me.
Noonan @ 29
wow..talk about simple eloquence there it is!
we are a government for the people, a government by the people
we are NOT a govenrment for the corporation, nor a government by corporations
sweet
has firedog done a piece on him yet?
if not give christy and jane a shout via email
ET — left you something in the EPU zone downstairs.
Turkeys.
Pluck’em.
Pluck’em all.
Clinton dropped the ball?
Barton Gellman, Washington Post, “A Strategy’s Cautious Evolution: Before Sept. 11, the Bush Anti-Terror Effort Was Mostly Ambition,” (Part 1 & Part 2), January 20, 2002.
Part 1
Part 2
Huzzah! Fox news up here broadcasts the Sunday show with Bill at 10 instead of 9. That means I get to hear Bob Newhart with Stephanopolous. (unfortunately that means I got to hear the ever lovely Bill Frist *hacks up a beardly hairball*)
Oh! Oh!
Cat torturer PHYSICIAN, who presumably took an oath to “first do no harm” Bill Frist was just on Stephanopolous advocating the torture of human beings.
Bush blew up frogs as a kid and smiled as he branded a man in college.
Frist tortured cats.
Now they lead the cause to allow American torture of human beings.
Anyone see a pattern (one, btw, that happens to fit the psychiatric description of a typical serial killer?)
fahrender @
30
Fox has no journalistic integrity whatsoever.
The left knows this and the right doesn’t care, or maybe likes it moreso because they have no integrity.
I think the best approach for leftists is to refuse to go on Fox and let Media Matters continue to document the bias.
Morning, firedogs! Just waking up and stretching and trying to plan the day here at the FDL safe-house. Ned the Fighting Koi just swam twice through his castle and up to the surface of his bowl, which means, “Tell everyone good morning for me and how about some fish flakes?”
TRex says:
“Ned the Fighting Koi just swam twice through his castle and up to the surface if his bowl, which means, “Tell everyone good morning for me and how about some fish flakes?”
Or he’s trying to tell you that a pipe burst in his castle and it has flooded and will you please call a plumber.
Just remind him that he’s a fish.
TRex @
39
Morning TRex…
I’m off to bed but put your computer screen up to the fishbowl so Ned the fighting Koi can watch Robert Greenwald’s 10-minute documentary campaign film about Ned the fighting Democrat!
He can enjoy it while eating his organic Frosted Fighting Fish Flakes!
Morning folks! Last night I made the crack that Rahm and Chuck were playing defense for Note Dame. ND scored 19 points in the 4th quarter to win.
Foreshadowing?
Driving in Southeastern CT on Wednesday on the way to the airport, I saw four wild turkeys on the side of Rte 95…
Gobble GObble.
focus, pups, focus.
General Election all 50 States:
1 month, 13 days, 9 hours, 26 minutes, and 11 seconds
Turky is the perfect bird for the Republithugs. They are unbelieveably dumb, aggressive, and LOUD. I raised a few dozen during my two years in Peace Corps. With all the red waddle around the necks and black feathers below, they also look like blow hards Puritans. I remember making “coats” for the females of striped awning cloth (a body lengh of cloth with holes cut out for the wings), so that the males wouldn’t rip their backs apart so badly during mating. ….a modesty panel during “intercourse,” now that also is par for the times. And, gobble, gobble, gobble – that comes closest in sound to what our military is doing in the Middle East, and of course our wonderful oil, pharmaceutical, and credit card companies here at home, to say nothing of all the recent “for profit” colleges around the country from which so few students are able to actually graduate.
Ed*ard Teller @ 27
ET
Lots of data shows that people are motivated to the polls by fear and by a sense that other people share their view and will vote the same way that they do ( the beauty contest or “growing movement” effect. You see it in the stock market all the time)
Torture is that kind of “fear” issue.
Most sane individuals fear becoming the nation that sponsors toture.
I wholeheartedly agree with your list of issues, but believe that torture must be added to the top of that list.
Unlike corruption, which gets complicated to explain, torture needs no explaination.
The photo Bill wants to replicate, is iconic.
it makes the point without words, and there is no defense to it, when it is in front of your eyes. It’s a very black and white kinda thing.
trying to get voters to understand nuance killed the candidacy of Dukaskis and Kerry.
Clinton junked all that subtley and distilled his theme down to “it’s the economy stupid” which expressed itself as “I feel your pain”
I used to investigate and prosecute public corruption and fraud against the government.
The press and public never seem to “get” why these cases are just as important as murder cases (and they are, corruption causes more deaths). The press and public see corruption as an “everybody does it” issue.That’s why I love, love love AUSA Patrick Collins in Chicago who gave THE BEST explaination I have ever heard for why public corruption is a matter of life and death after the Hired Truck Scandal verdict.
They see “incompetence” as name calling.
But torture? Do we want to end up like the “good germans” who stood by as the Nazi Party killed and turtored millions?
The photo that Bill wants to replicate with a naught symbol through it, and the words “vote Democrat” below it, would be hard to dispute—-if if if only the dems vote against the bill as a block.
A widespread protest in the form of lots of people dressing up like that while someone else holds a sign urgeing congress to vote against the bill, could move mountains.
And Ed, if we stop the bill, we win back Congress. If we were to win this fight….
Morning–
The roundtable on This Week is slamming Macaca Allen.
GO Webb!
All of the blame is heaped on Georgie, “he keeps changing the story and he can’t get it straight”.
LOL.
Brit Hume is such a shill. Watching this Clinton interviw while Fox has these little interludes to critique an attack as if Clinton is still in the room is insulting and infuriating.
Ed*ard Teller @ 44
The best message the U.S. can send to the international community is a Nov. 8 headline that says “Bush Loses Congress.”
If the Repubs pass the torture bill and one month later they lose the Congress, that will reverberate around the globe.
Nice to see the NYT is still busy about the business of destroying what shreds are left of their integrity. Pardon me if I lack a sense of humor as I write this. Hats off to Digs who saves me the excruciating effort of trying to read that crap.
Remember the recent hearings on War Profiteerng on CSPAN, and the truck driver and lawyer who testified against Hallliburton? They brought a lawsuit and the judge just ruled against them and the families of those who died. Well, yeah, the judge was appointed by
HalliburtonBush, but you know, he believes that Halliburton’s activities in Iraq are so intertwined with the Army’s activities, they just can’t be held accountable for their actions. How’s that for legal reasoning?Here’s the article.
DJ DrZ @
43
Yesterday a woman got bit by a coyote(!) at the Branford I-95 McDonald’s rest stop! Sheesh, see what 18 years of Lieberman has brought us?
(OK I’ll admit that’s a stretch, but I dare you to come up with a better reason for it?)
windje — those 2002 WaPo articles sure make the case for LIHOP, don’t they?
If Bush had actually taken out OBL, he and his peeps would have no case for military action in Iraq, either…
Ed*ard Teller @ 44
On this point, I could not agree with you more.
Rayne @ 52
I was looking more to the substantive Clinton/Fox/Path to 911 issues, but your point is well taken.
It is interesting that the rigid, patriotic FOX Republicans, who shriek and cry everytime Bush is picked on, call those who pick on Bush “traitors” and “America haters”, who insist that Americans must respect the President and support him no matter how many disastrous mistakes he’s made because of sheer incompetence and ignorance, nonetheless STILL go after an ex-President by yet again employing sleazy tactics to entrap him.
When did conservatives get so venomous and start behaving like jackals?
lina @ 49
grs @ 48
Faux News – If it lies, it flys!
Lina 49–it won’t reverberate loud enough. The laws will be on the books, and Dems will be unable to repeal it (as they won’t have enough votes to override the veto of the repeal legislation.)
So slightly OT, but not really: Glenn Greenwald suggests a commercial for Dems. Plenty of people (even yours truly) have good ideas for commercials. Home PC tools are now pretty advanced, and I understand one of our hostesses knows a thing or two about production values ;) What’s to keep us from simply producing these commercials? If nothing else, a good-quality (if not high enough for network primetime) commercial might make a good pitch tool for convincing the people running the campaigns. Not to mention the airing they’d get through Youtube…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 16
That’s assuming you use real wires.
lina @ 49
only if the Ds don’t help the Rs pass the torture bill (and that includes voting for cloture). any D who does so is dead to me.
Danbury @ 55
When they got scared shitless that their entire philosophy, once executed, has turned into a massive failure. Can’t admit we were wrong, so let’s use the Wurlitzer to blame somebody else.
The thing is, Bill is genuinely, righteously angry here, and it shows. People get it with their guts and their guts tell them it’s authentic – unlike his faux anger in the “I never had sex with that woman” moment.
I think the hubbub even with Fox’s selective editing and commenting is a good thing because it calls attention to the situation. Those who go with the standard gooper party line are lost to reason, anyway, so no loss there. But the attention to what he’s saying is good, I think.
Fr instance his argument made it to the front pages of the WaPo and ‘combative Clinton defends his record’ is the most emailed article. Alongside another front page reference to Iraq making things worse for ‘terrism’ the overall result is positive for progressives. imho.
Danbury @ 55
when the democrats fought for civil rights, we delivered the worst of America to the republcian party
Morning all,
That Digby post about Senior left me a tad mad too, so much so I left some bon mots in the comment thread. I might have overstated the case a little too much (lol) but that is what happens when you shotgun Diet Coke all night. Check it out before Haloscan more-than-likely makes it disappear. I know it’s harsh, but give the comment an entire read, and the meaning becomes clear. I really don’t enjoy saying things like that, well, at least not all that much. :)
Had a long night with Mom’s illness, I must be going. I’ll try to pop in later tonight, but it is football day after all, and the ‘Hawks are gonna stomp some Giants today! (Okay, maybe they’ll squeak through and win by a fieldgoal.)
Raoul
and every single poll shows Iraq to be the number one issue of concern to voters. Dem. candidates need to use the last 50 days to hammer Iraq. Every newspaper in the country has a headline today about Iraq making terrorism worse.
Stay on message Stay on message Stay on message.
Karl’s robots do it and they win. We can do it too and win.
After we’re in power, we can address all the horrors they’ve inflicted on us the last six years.
BUT WE HAVE TO WIN.
me to me @
32
help!
Kelly is spending most of his time on the road, he has one of the largest, most rural districts in Wisconsin, so his email contact is spotty at times – which is a good thing in this case. I know Howie did a spotlight on him.
FWIW, the goose-egg that was thrown up this past Wednesday in Howie’s online chats with candidates was mine. I had a committment I couldn’t get out of :( We’re hoping to find time in the next 5 weeks to chat. I feel bad for letting Howie down, but the folks in Madison don’t seem to understand the power of the blogosphere, yet.
Broad Effort Launched After ‘98 Attacks – Barton Gellman Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, December 19, 2001
Part 1
Part 2
More independent reporting that contradicts The PAth to 911/Wallace/Fox
I’m not advocating the Ds vote for the bill. I’m saying don’t help the Rs keep it in the headlines for the next 50 days.
Don’t help Karl spin this issue to help Bush.
Anyone here have a sense of how things are going for Ned in CT?
lph @ # 46,
Torture is already covered under both incompetence and inefficiency. We needn’t continually take the Manichean bait Rove’s robots throw at us, though.
I’ll fire an incompetant fool every time, whether or not I consider and then waste hours debating with myself or my associates the morality of that person’s damage to his or her institutional sphere of inflence.
Otherwise, you’re right on!
I only wish Bill Clinton would get mad more often, and at the proper targets.
Clinton has pretty much squandered his immense popularity that he possessed during his term in office, because of his reticence to speak out about the current leadership’s mistakes.
If he would just forget about trying to get everybody to love him and give W and the rubber-stamp incumbants the lambasting they deserve, the ‘06 mid-terms could be a Democratic landslide.
Instead, he just sort of saunters along, and every once in a while barks at a whippersnapper of a TV reporter. Big whoop.
Two articles caught my attention in this morning’s L.A. Times.
First, an article about GOP data-mining abilities, in pursuit of individual (not bloc) votes. “Surveying the Democrats’ efforts to close the technology gap, [Donna Brazile] insists her party is making gains. “Unfortunately, she said, “it’s late and last minute. We’re still perfecting drive-by campaigning.” HUGE sigh.
And second, one where Falwell suggests “Nothing will motivate conservative evangelical Christians to vote Republican in the 2008 presidential election more than a Democratic nominee named Hillary Rodham Clinton — not even a run by the devil himself.”
meta @ 69
Meta, it’s kind of quiet. The new Lamont radio ad is a hoot and a half, but other than that it’s kind of a quiet time. I don’t see much happening until after the Jewish holiday weekend is over.
Joe’s got a big Iraq speech coming up this week. The one where he’ll throw himself on the floor, wailing inconsolably that “it’s all my fault!”, while his campaign staff stands around uncomfortably.
At least, that’s how I’m hoping it goes.
Connecticut Bob @ 71
And that is the greatest irony of all. Despite the GOP’s indefatigable and relentless attacks on him, their obsessive desire to bring him down, and their (literally!) policy of “Anything But Clinton”, which is what caused Bush to ignore all those warnings given him about al Qaeda (so their irrational and pathological hatred of a US president may very well have played a huge role in 9/11), Clinton refuses to sink to their level and remains diplomatic while using intellect to discuss policy differences.
ooh, Bill coming up with the shill here.
The choice quotes from the book review quoted by Digby are so vapid that I want to scream. Lewis Lapham is vitriolic, but has had a consistent vision of US politics grounded in attention to socioeconomic inequality, and a view of the founders as radically attempting to forge a different kind of social contract.
I hate the view that everyone must cleave to the polite middle, and that content be damned, it is tone that determines whether one is being reasonable. If you think Lapham is being shrill, then explain why in terms of his arguments, not by recourse to some puerile appeal to conventional standards. As my childhood friend Alex’s mother from West Texas used to say derisively about people of whom she didn’t approve: “How asinine!”
me to me@63…and a good thing that was too. Watching Democrats filibuster civil rights, including anti-lynch laws was nauseating. Johnson is blamed for loosing the South; he should be revered for throwing out the trash.
South Orange County Democrat @ 72
As a teacher, I felt I should present material for all candidates in my classroom back on ‘04.
To this end, I signed up as a volunteer for every party. I was an active Kerry ward captain, but the GOP still sends me invitations to work on their behalf.
Let me tell you, the information available through the Republicans was as detailed back then as it is for me now as a candidate.
The catch – I was only a volunteer for the Republicans, and that was two years ago. Their interface was much more intuitive and user friendly that what I have access to today. I can only imagine how much more refined their database is now. Of course, they are still sending stuff to me…
signing off:
We’ll only win if we work really fucking hard and even more REALLY effectively.
Thank you, CTBob. BTW, I do check out your cool blog on a routine basis!
An Iraq speech by SlowJoe? Oh, please, spare me!
I hope a debate will seal the deal.
angie, please let us know if it’s worth watching. My stomach is pretty queasy today. Too much bad news.
meta– it’s supposed to be full and unedited and so far Chris has laid out the ground rules for the teevee audience, saying they had 15 minutes equally divided between the global initiative project and the other minutes given to anything else– “you’ll see that’s not how it turned out.”
Now 6 minutes into the program he asks about OBL.
Now Bill is pissed.
Christy:
Could you give us your take on Elizabeth Holtzman’s piece today in the Chicago Sun-Times title “Bush Seeks Immunity for Violating War Crimes Act.”
It seems to me a very important piece.
http://tinyurl.com/fvzk3
OT (but not): Up in Maine, huge new mega churches all along Route 1. Nice to see our tax dollars at work! NOT :-(
meta @ 80
Thanks for reading my silly blog.
I’m fervently hoping the deal is sealed well before the debate in late Oct. I don’t know if I can take it being this close for the next 6 weeks!
Well, I’m off to crew on a friend’s sailboat today. They’re expecting 15-30 knots and possible thunderstorms. Should be a fun race!
6 minutesangie @ 82
equally devided does NOT mean in order
sorry, this doesn’t look like a highjack unless it was claimed there would be partitions
Edward Teller:
We here in Vermont have a VERY TIGHT congressional race. Follow my thinking regarding protest signs…
The Republican candidate, Martha Rainville, was the very respected Adjutant General of the Vermont National Guard. She looks good. She has a certain charisma.
The Democratic candidate, Peter Welch, is a reliably liberal Democrat running a predictably pathetic, centrist campaign. He has yet to break 45% in the polls…in a state that is going to elect a socialist as its next Senator.
Even more scary is the fact that the Republican primary was only a week ago. Welch has been campaigning for six months; Martha has only been campaigning as the nominee agaisnt Welch for TEN days. Which makes Vermont’s “Democratic” seat one of the most vulnerable in the country.
The RCCC is running adds calling Martha “independent,” and saying how she stood up to Rumsfeld over body armour issues for Vermont guardsmen.
Vermont has lost more soldiers, per capita, than any other state so Vermont citizens, Democrat or Republican, feel strongly about our men and women in uniform.
Except guess what?!?
Martha isn’t independent!
She had John McCain here approximately ten days ago campaigning for her.
And the week before that, she had Old Babs Bush here campaigning and raising money for her.
And she’s so independent, she’s taken money from the Abramoff-financed Republican leadership in Congress.
She hasn’t opposed a single Republican policy, and if she’s not opposing the torture policy during her campaign in liberal Vermont, she’s certainly not going to find an independent conscience when she cuddles up to the Republican club in DC.
So would it be a waste to appear at every event where Martha is with big posters showing things like John McCain and the Hooded Man, asking Martha to disavow legalizing military torture?
Boston Globe has a piece on the new attack ads using Pelosi, in essence “we don’t want San Francisco values here in Indiana, vote Republithug.”
Trent @ 83
Have you seen a fabulous law professor named Jonathan Turley on various programs recently, including providing testimony (aired on c-span) to Congress? He is a Constitutional law professor, and he has been saying that the reason Bush has been so frantic about this issue is because Turley expects that the Red Cross, once they interview those 14 detainees, is going to emerge with charges of war crimes.
Gagging while listening to Susan Collins, Maine Senator, is being interviewed on C-SPAN. Just said that ‘homeland security’ has improved in the last 5 years; also blaming Dems for obstructing Congress from doing it’s job, thereby being responsible for the 25% approval rating Congress has with American people.
Interviewers keep refering to her as a moderate.
Danbury at 88 — we talked about that in the comments on Friday — he was exceptional on Olbermann.
I haven’t seen anyone else pick up on this, but Russ Feingold wrote a letter to the editor:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09…..ngold.html
I really hate the way that a letter from a senator doesn’t get a bit more attention from the NY Times – this is just included as one of the LTEs for 9/24.
I know Christy and Jane (and all of the other great folks who write items for FDL) read the comments and thought they might want to give Feingold a bit of credit for saying what so many are thinking and posting.
HOLY CRAP!!!!!
Did any of the rest of you catch that op-ed by Ben Stein on CBS just now??
I waited out his nasty little proto-typical rant about the “crazies” that came to the UN this week…waited out his whack about potential threats the “crazies” pose to American interests…
And then he just said we are screwed and need to tax the rich to fix this mess!!
I mean, the man just said he wanted us to take Ben Stein’s money!!!
DON’T GIVE UP, PEOPLE. THEY WANT US TO RESCUE THEM FROM THEMSELVES AND THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR US TO DO SO.
Jeepers, I never, EVER thought I’d see the day that Ben Stein, right-wing freak of the first water, would actually say TAX ME.
Sheesh.
Well, I must say, watching Bill Clinton rip into Chris Wallace was kind of fun. *g*
Rayne @ 92
Talk about a man bites dog story!
I know I shouldn’t think like this, but imagine halloween costumes all over the US of that prisoner with the hood, and saying Trick or Treat.
Noonan @ 78
Noonan…
I know what you mean. As an IT Business Intelligence pro myself, it is often difficult to contain my frustration at the unwillingness, inability or just plain metathesiophobia when it comes to the left’s willingness to fully invest in deploying and standardizing on next-generation data solutions.
Reminds me of a lesson from Stephen King’s “The Stand” when good and evil split into two camps. The evil camp “has the lights on and trains running because the ‘techies’ tend to respect order and go where their skills are appreciated”. There is an important IT and Data Mgt lesson in that for all us “lefties”.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 93
…More than fun….It was well overdue.
I wonder if any koolaid drinkers will wake-up
tpres2000 @ 89
Is there any move afoot in the Maine Democratic party to try to run someone against her in the next election?
When did the confederate networks secede from the Union? In these troubled times, the talking heads give us the likes of Danforth who put Thomas on the Supreme Court while trashing truth-teller Anita Hill. Holbrooke is the only one who might give us something other than spin. The entire Sunday morning shows are nothing but Bush’s propaganda outlets. I want the public airwaves back if it isn’t too late.
sofistic @ 95
Wow, imagine that costume also being worn on the street corners for the night time candle lit vigils on street corners against the war that are happening in various places in New England (and maybe elsewhere). Plus, I believe kids should have the kids day for themselves, which Halloween in some ways still is.
Rayne, thanks for explaining the Ben Stein thing. He gives me the creeps. I jwatched it myself and just thought I must have not heard it correctly. He ended the piece with, “this is serious.” No kidding, Ben.
meta @ 101
That’s why I really think this election is different. People have come to these conclusions despite Karl’s and the lazy media’s best efforts. Junkies like us obsess over this shit, but people’s minds are made up that only the Dems can hold these bastards accountable.
Rayne @ 92
I need a transcript or video of THAT
Christy Hardin Smith @ 91
I was so impressed by his arguments to Congress that I wrote him an email thanking him for providing a voice of sanity, reminding us of what American principles are, and he wrote the nicest email back to thank me.
He qualifies now as a Stephanie Miller “My future husband” candidate, only for moi! Let the stalking commence!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 94
I’ll say. Mr. President quite artfully and methodically dissected the faux journalist.
Nate #96 — part of the challenge with technology and progressives is a fundamental problem of how we walk the walk.
Republicans actually pay professionals to do their work; they breed them in their Young Repug network (a la Norquist, Rove, Abramoff, etc.), they hire from within this pipeline to encourage them, they find a way to make a living doing this stuff by way of using their own network of contacts.
We aren’t doing that; in fact, the Young Dems are a shamble depending on where you are in the country, nothing in the pipeline. Our youngest and brightest end up competing against their Repug counterparts (the ones who haven’t been placed inside the Repug network), and we don’t find ways to reward them and encourage them from within our own ranks.
Consequently, whatever Dems need in the way of technology (or other services) ends up coming from folks who donate their time or from folks who may not be first-tier.
It’s not enough to say “Buy Blue” — we need to grow and train our own and then commit to buying from them.
is bill allowed to be vice president?
stupid question, he’d never do it, just for acameia, is he allowed?
if hilary gets elected bill will be as good as the president again, but I am just wondering if he’s allowed to be on the ticket
Clinton attacked like a blogger. That’s what we do every fucking day.
Are you listening Harry, Nancy, Chuck, Rahm, Hillary?
I thought I might wake up calmer today. I didn’t.
Richmond @ 98
Focus right now is on trying to replace Senator Snowe with Jean Hay Bright
Pachacutec @ 109
GREAT POINT
we need to STOP treating these people like equals, we need to ATTACK with MORE VENOM then they level their insane acusations
BILL IS READING!!!
HOW YA DOIN BIG DOG?
please say hi
meta — no problem at all re: Ben Stein. I’m amazed that I didn’t click away once he started his nasty hate-mongering. I’m glad I stuck through it…
And I can see where you’d have some cognitive dissonance with Stein’s comments. This is EXACTLY where my father-in-law’s head is at right now; he’s not ready to give up being Republican, but he knows he’s in deep sh*t and he hopes like hell we’ll save them.
Hell, he’s hoping this foaming-at-the-mouth moonbat daughter-in-law will run for office and save him.
And Ben Stein wants to GIVE us his money to save him.
Sheeee-it.
hey!!!
I BET chelsea is here right now!
SHE turned dad on to firedog, I KNOW it, THAT’S why jane was invited
[Okay, I’m assuming the rest of this post was a joke, but I’m editing it for your own sake. The secret service also reads blogs. Just FYI. — CHS]
Twisted Martini @
103
Twisted, I do so hope that you are right. I see it in bits and pieces. This latest NIE is getting coverage – that is very, very important and will help get the spotlight off of Republican talking points. I think they wanted us to talk about Clinton for the next month, but it looks like that backfired on them. My worst fear is that we strike Iran and our soldiers in Iraq suffer an immense blowback.
tpres2000 @ 109
Jean Hay Bright is on ActBlue at http://www.actblue.com/page/mainefem#8458 if you’d like to help.
Danbury @ 105
Danbury, do you have an email for Turley? I promise to leave him all to you.
meta @ 114
the latest nie is a BRUTAL indictment of what the administration has done
it says in NO UNCERRTAIN TERMS we are CREATING MORE TERRORISTS in Iraq
WE ARE FUELING THE INSURGENCY AND FEEDING THE TERRORISTS
this is in the PRESIDENTS OWN REPORT
WE CAN USE THIS TO SAY ONE OF THE REASONS THE INSURGENCY GROWS BECUASE WE CONDONE TORTURE
it’s a FACT that’s one of the reasons insurgency grows and we HAVE TO JUMP ON IT
timing has not been kind to progressives or demoracy, this is timed FOR US
Question: Which of the following October surprises will be in play? 1) Iran attack; 2) oil & gas prices plummet; 3) electronic voting w-out paper ballots in place in key states 4) OBL anti-Bush statement in support of the Democratic candidate; 5) OBL taken out; 6) Hillary as candidate; 7) a new series of anthrax (or mass food) attacks – this one perhaps focused on schools and children. Answer: probably at least 5 of the 7.
me to me @
108
Sadly, no — one of the constitutional qualifications for Vice President is that you are qualified to be President (and he is disqualified). He could, however, be a cabinet member — even one that is in the succession line to be President…
meta #113 — I took that away from Stein’s commentary, too, that old school Repugs like him are TERRIFIED about the potential use of nuclear weapons.
For everyone else who didn’t catch Stein, he tried to make the case that our army is so small that we can no longer defend let alone win multiple wars or multiple fronts (against the “crazies” he itemized), that half our ready army is already tied up with an insurgency in Iraq. He is worried that we’ll have to use a nuke on any other front that emerges simply because we don’t have the forces to fight a convential war. What he doesn’t say but can be read between the lines is that this lets the genie out of the bottle.
If we nuke Iran, even if provoked by any standard, then any other country with nukes is now within their own rights to do the same. Any attempt at nuclear restraint is gone, gone, gone.
And only taking Ben Stein’s money and his peeps’ money will help us fix the deficit, rebuild the military and save us from all-out nuclear winter.
me to me @ 108
I’m not the largest Hillary cheerleader. But don’t you perhaps think this sells La Hil a teensy bit short? My opinion would be that Hillary has a mind of her own. I just don’t think it’s always working properly. Please don’t misread this. I am not defending the Senator.
Is there any move afoot in the Maine Democratic party to try to run someone against her in the next election?
Focus right now is on trying to replace Senator Snowe with Jean Hay Bright
Jean Hay Bright is on ActBlue at http://www.actblue.com/page/mainefem#8458 if you’d like to help.
Thanks, will do!
Just heard Bob Schieffer do a preview chat for his show with my local news station where he said that the Torture Bill is a win-win for everybody because it still upholds our commitment to the Geneva Conventions. This freakin’ guy is a primetime newscaster!!!!!
Trent @
83
Holztman is exactly right. This bill is about retroactively legalizing war crimes to keep Bush, Cheney, Gonzales, Yoo, etc. from someday being indicted for their war crimes, which under current law are federal crimes. The stuff about military commissions and about continuing “the program” is all secondary. The fight with McCain was misdirection, a red herring, a smoke screen, a diversion.
Note that there is no other urgency in getting this passed. None. The President can detain detainees for however long he pleases. The only thing that military commissions facilitate is executions, and in these cases executions would only add to our woes by making yet more people feel still better about killing Americans.
Holtzman has one thing wrong. Bush’s versio of the bill legalized war crimes back to 9/11/2002. The current version takes it back to November 26, 1997. Does anyone know whose ass got exposed on that date?
meta– here you go.
here’s the link to Turley’s contact info:
http://www.law.gwu.edu/faculty…..px?id=1738
Rayne — as for your challenge from last thread —
I am definately in for the long haul, but I am more wary and have a clearer and lesser opinion of exactly who our “allies” are.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 121
hill indeed has a mind of her own…however unlike Bush, she is not above taking the advice of former presidents
I am POSITIVE she respects his opinion and would take plenty of things under advisement
don’t forget
bill took situations under advisement from her
she’ll do the same
As I walk through
This wicked world
Searchin’ for light in the darkness of insanity…
I stumbled upon this unwashed, passionate tribe lining the shore of this lake see, and I, and I
…fuzzy headed, cranky, clearly agitated middle aged woman continues to pogo in between rooms and back to the keyboard
Happy Sidney Blumethal Day Firedogs !
oh yeah, definitely not watching this traitorous circle jerk they call Sunday talk . . .
Kurtz trashed Clinton on ‘Reliable Sources’. I guess ole Howie doesn’t like being reminded that he, his wife, and all his neo-con friends went after Clinton for ‘wag the dog’ when he was trying to get Bin Laden.
Why do these people have any credibility left? The neocons and their shadow buddies in the media are like a poison infecting America. How much damage to they have to do before they people wake up? Go Bill.
c and l has the video of big dog NOW
interview is 27 mb’s just for the first half
if you’re not on a fast connection wait till you are
Thanks, angie. Turley has my gratitude.
“When people think, America wins.” ~ Bill Clinton
New thread, gang.
Wigwam @ 124. I did a google search on the date, and came to the Washington Post website synopsis of key issues – a web chronology (On Politics Washingtonpost.com). Interestingly we read for August 29, 1997 that the US population not optimistic on nation’s course. Then on Feb 20, 1998 we learn that 68% show strong support for bombing Iraq. Probably the Nov 1997 date has something to do with Bush admin illegal actions in Iraw in lead up to the war.
immanentize #125 — perfect.
I was (and am) a hardcore X-Files fan. Maybe I’m just a paranoid freak, who knows…
But the show’s taglines always resonated with me.
Trust no one.
And the truth is out there.
One of the challenges as neophyte pols (and yes, we grassroots-netroots are now become the pols) we face is that we need to acquire the gamesmanship necessary to effective leadership.
Believe me, we’ve had our noses tweaked more than a few times this past year — but it’s a steep learning curve and we’re climbing it very quickly, there’s bound to be some slaps along the way.
Jeepers, last night I just learned the most phenomenal bit of info; after 2 years of hard work having to dance around certain elements in the local party’s ranks, we discovered it’s a paper tiger.
A f*cking paper tiger. There’s no there there.
This completely changes the rules. And frankly, we don’t know what other conventional wisdom we’ve been tripped up by is really just smoke.
We need to trust ourselves, learn quickly, adapt even more rapidly, and not let some of the debris that falls away impede us. I view some of the crap we are seeing this week as just that, debris that can stop us if we stare at it too long instead of keeping our eyes on the prize.
The real prizes are twofold — relationships with our elected officials (if rocky at times), and a progressive majority. Our first tack will be to work those relationships this week to delay the torture “compromise”, and our second tack is to continue to take back Congress.
Because if the first one doesn’t work, the second one definitely will; the 110th Congress with John Conyers as House Leader will undo any bill passed under the 109th to which we now object.
meta @ 116
Assuming for the moment that Senator Clinton wins the presidency in 2008. And that she goes into the WH with the same perceptions regarding the Middle East (Iraq, the Palestinian-Israel thing) as she now has. Would her husband change Hillary’s mind on this? Or for that matter would huge dog even want to change her mind on these MOST crucial issues. I have no answer to this.
Frank Rich on George S’s “This Week…”. Now.
Bill is doing a GREAT job on Wallace!
“a serious disinformation campaign to create this impression” – yea, Bill!
Found the link on Raw Story about the Marine colonel who slams Bush. The video has been deleted, but you can still see what he was saying.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0908.html
me to me @ 127
Pres. Hill, first man Bill – wingnut heads explode. teehee
immanentize @
119
Immanetize:
We are certainly getting into hardcore political navel gazing here, but for what it is worth, there is no Constitutional prohibition to Bill Clinton taking the oath of office as Vice President. The only prohibitions or political and practical.
Note however that if he ran on the same ticket as Hillary, they would necessarily need to be residents of different states. The Clintons have plenty of time to discuss the pros & cons of that type of separate living arrangement and I will not weigh in on it. Should he be the vice nominee for a candidate in another state, there is no issue.
Relative to qualifications to be Vice President, there is no requirement that someone be eligible to become president. Rather, 3 U.S.C. Section 19 (I can’t do a damn “section “ symbol on this thing) see, http://www4.law.cornell.edu/us…..-000-.html states that whoever the next “eligible” person in the line of succession will take the office.
The 25th Amendment prohibits a person from being elected more than twice or serving more than half of an unelected term and then also being elected a second time. Service as Vice President, however, is nowhere prohibited and unquestionably allowed. It is just doubtfully wise both for the Big Dog and a nominee.
The only arguably sound constitutional basis for keeping “Vice President Bill Clinton” from office (or rather from “staying in office) is the prohibition of service as President of more than 10 years, i.e. 2 or more years of an unelected term plus two elected terms is prohited. You only get less than half an unelected term plus two elected terms or one elected term if you’ve already served more than 2 years of someone else’s term. Assuming the Constitution were to be interpreted analogously relative to the 10 year bar in the bizarre circumstance where a former president takes over for a dead or incapacited sitting president, than “Vice President Bill Clinton” could not ascend to the Presidency in a case of presidential disability or death for more than 23 months and one month minus a day. Any longer and he would become ineligible to be President and the mantle would pass to the next in line.
Bizarre hypothetical but that’s how it works.
slainte,
cl
Nate @
97
I’ll bet the Iraqi people wonder which side they got. Mr. Ole 60 Grit picked the squad to represent the techies and they still can’t keep the lights on.
Bill cannot be in any position that may ascend to the presidency, IIRC.
Byron York today displays the complete cognitive dissonance of the National Review today.
http://article.nationalreview……BiNWJlYjE=
So, the wingnuts at the National Review obsess over Clinton’s penis for three years, throw everything at him from Vince Foster to Whitewater, try to impeach him over an affair, and then – when he points out how they screamed ‘wag the dog’ when he went after Bin Laden – they blame him for being distracted over that whole impeachment thing they fomented. Right.
I wonder … does Byron, or Jonah, or Kathryn Jean Lopez, or Kate O’Beirne ever go past Arlington cemetary and feel even a little guilty? Just a little? Do they soldiers in an airport and ever feel just the tiniest twinge of guilt?
I guess not.
Hey, those are wild turkeys. A smart and wily bird that Ben Franklin thought should be the national symbol instead of the Bald Eagle, which eats mostly carrion.
You should have pictured domestic turkeys (white). Those are the ones that are too dumb to come in out of the rain.
Killer @
145
Killer,
U.S. expressly recognizes the possibility that people may hold one of the offices, which are in line for the presidency, even though the people holding the office are ineligible to be President. For instance, if someone is not old enough or was not born in the U.S., the 3 U.S.C. Sect. 19 states that you go down to the next person.
There is no prohibition on being Speaker of the House, President Pro Tempore or Vice President merely because you cannot become President if needed. Rather, if the office holder in line to be President is not eligible, for any reason, (age birth residency etc.), that person is skipped and the next eligible person gets the job.
I am certainly not endorsing the idea of Clinton being on a ticket. The bigger point, however, is that in a Democracy we can elect anyone who is eligible to any office we want. There are no “implied” prohibitions in the Constitution restricting our ability to vote for an eligible candidate. If someone wanted to put Bill Clinton on their ticket as the VP nominee, they would have no constitutional barriers.
Personally, I think he is one of the most effective campaigners of all time and any candidate that did not ask for his help campaigning does so at their own peril. The fact is he would never take the VP spot and no nominee would want to be in the shadow of their running mate either, which would inevitably happen with Clinton in the shotgun seat.
As someone said earlier, this is a great discussion for the halls of academe and among political junkies; but it is also sheer fantasy.
slainte,
cl
Dr Frist, Republican, pushes a menu of Human Torture into American Law.
Dr. Frist refuses “torture clarity” for the American People.
Was human torture part of his oath as a doctor?
FEAR AMERICAN HEALTH CARE!
You must not have actually watched the interview. Wallace tried to go back to questions about the Clinton universe wide beneficence fund, but it was Clinton who refused to change subjects. Was Wallace supposed to be as rude as Clinton was?
Mary McLemore at 150 — I watched the entire interview. And I saw Wallace go off the subject of the fund with his second question — which was where Wallace broke his word. Was Clinton to allow Wallace to do so without pushing back? No. The fact that it comes down to a question of “manners” instead of honesty and integrity on Wallace’s part says a lot. Wallace only tried to return to discussion of the conference once he realized that President Clinton was not just going to sit there and passively swallow Wallace’s pre-fabricated GOP talking points question.
It is being reported that Clinton blew his top at his staff after the interview. The old saw about being able to tell a lot about a person by how they treat their underlings is verified again. RLA Schaefer Dubuque Iowa