Morning, folks.

Hi, zero.

Big Dog!

That’s a leader, he even walks and talks to normal people, of the world without fear, not like Bush.

why are rahm and schumer ignoring Iraq and the new cia torture rules.
this is the way to attack Bush. He let 9/11 happen. it was on his watch and he did nothing but ignore the threat. they attacked Clinton for paying attention to Al Quaida. This is the campaign.
not corruption in Congress. The SD race to replace two-bit Cunningham showed that.

the lead stories in the Post and NYTimes are that the Iraq War increased terrorism!
I can’t watch the talking fools, and my sweet wife–basically dares me to put it on when I am tempted–so I don’t know whether they are talking about that.
But it is another BUSH mistake.

I am not the greatest fan of all Bill Clinton’s policies while president, but it sure was nice seeing him destroy the slick and twisted veneer of Fox News.

This time, Big Dog gets an A

Love God Be Nice

Jeffko

For those who missed it, it will be re-run on FOX at 6:00pm EDT tonight.

I love how the right wing is framing this. He’s “unhinged” and “anger unleashed”. The notion that defending onesself against lies makes one “unhinged” is laughable.

Bold off?

The Big Dog did good. Now if only the Democrats came out blazing next week focusing on the shortcomings of Bush and security.

Spotlight folks, and letters to the editors of your local papers.

I would vote for Bill Clinton for president a third time in a nanosecond. Problem is, he’s not running for President in 2008. Senator Clinton most certainly is. I’d really like to know Large Dog’s position, CLEARLY, on what to to about the Middle East though.

Any ideas why the liberal blogosphere has not organized any push back against the torture and indefinite detention with no judicial review legislation “compromise” that the Repubs are pushing for this week?

Is this less important than Path to 9/11?

Dems not taking a distinct stand against torture and kangaroo courts and relying on Warner/McCain has turned out to be a bad strategy. First, it goes to show that the Dems don’t have courage of conviction nor principles they stand for but instead will do anything to get elected. Each time they have taken that approach not only have they not got elected but it further disillusions their base. The legalization of torture and trashing of established law and precedence as well as the Geneva Conventions is in many ways an Iraq vote redux in 2002. The Dems by and large voted to authorize war and did not stand by principle and many are haunted by that vote today. It will not be long before the torture and indefinite detention law with no habeas corpus will come back to haunt. Once the cat is out of the bag then its only a matter time that political opponents, folks with the wrong name or skin color or beliefs get labeled as the new “terrorist”.

At the end of the interview Wallace says something like, “Thank-you for the unusual interview.” I can’t remember the exact adjective.

My immediate thought directed at Wallace was, “Do you know why it’s unusual? Do you even have an inkling?”

Yowza! Now I understand why this is getting so much attention.

‘Bout damn time a Dem stood up to these assholes and gave them a direct offensive they so richly deserve. And figures it was Bill Clinton to do it.

Now we know why conservative pols and media never put themselves in a position to actually be challenged. They get their asses kicked by the facts everytime they do, like O’Reilly idiotically thinking he could actually go up against Paul Krugman! Hilarious stuff.

Best part was Wallace trying to change the topic to the CGI, Clinton refusing, and Wallace acting like he’s the victim.

What a bunch of wusses these Bush Republicans prove themselves to be time and time again.

Millineryman @ 9

The Big Dog did good. Now if only the Democrats came out blazing next week focusing on the shortcomings of Bush and security.

It should be an “interesting” week to see what the Dem Congresscritters do in regard to the “Let’s Approve Torture and Administration Criminals Pardon Themselves” legislation.

In some ways, it will be a tipping point for the Dems to show whether they have any “national-level” election strategy or whether they’re going to do an “all politics is local” strategy for November.

Based on the deafening silence thusfar, it sounds like the latter.

clinton;

“I spent four hours talking to the 9/11 commision, I told them the mistakes I thought I made…I URGED them to make those mistakes public”

want to see how a real man deals with his responsiblities in life

take a good long look at bill clinton

Wallace looked like a kid being admonished by an adult (which he was. Too bad Dems aren’t as loud as they should be on all the ridiculous BushCo policies.

One thing I don’t understand about the McCain-Bush torture bill is their strategy with the judiciary. Even a conservative judge will be in a difficult position to uphold the law (if it becomes law) that takes away judicial review, as I understand it. The judicial branch has had an historically difficult time getting the respect it now enjoys. Giving it up would be suicide.

ab initio at 11 — yes, here’s an idea — we’re a whole disperate group of people who are trying to find an effective way to simultaneously scream that torture is wrong and to win an election in November because it has to be done. And we are just people, who are trying to do about fifty bazillion things, work jobs, take care of our families and everything else at the same time.

Sometimes, things coalesce just right — as they did with the 9/11 movie. Sometimes we have to feel our way through and work the angles as we can, with or without party support. But we are human beings, not super heroes, and we are doing the best we can.

Question: Is there still a window of opportunity to mount a filibuster against the War-Crimes Legalization Act of 2006?

Maybe Karl Rove and the Republicans have turned over a new leaf and the October suprise will be free cake and ice cream for everyone.

I love that Bill can speak clearly and precisely when he’s pissed…

GSD @ 47

How many stories are these major media outlets sitting on in the election run-up this time?

-GSD

Heard much about Iraq lately?

Didn’t think so…

Wigwam @ 18

Question: Is there still a window of opportunity to mount a filibuster against the War-Crimes Legalization Act of 2006?

I am very dissapointed we aren’t trying

I’m sorry, this to me is more important then anything we’ve ever faced

we have finally seen the grace of good timing, the nie is a brutal indictment of the way we’ve conducted ourselves in Iraq

I wish we would do something to get a filibuster at least attempted

Peterboy @ 4

why are rahm and schumer ignoring Iraq and the new cia torture rules.
this is the way to attack Bush. He let 9/11 happen. it was on his watch and he did nothing but ignore the threat. they attacked Clinton for paying attention to Al Quaida. This is the campaign.
not corruption in Congress. The SD race to replace two-bit Cunningham showed that.

It sure beats me why Rahm and Schumer continue to ignore Iraq and torture - same kind of twisted ill-logic my Senator Boxer continues to demonstrate - we the people can’t get their attention. Truly maddening and demoralizing. Hey fellows - find your spine - do your job - how tragic you’ve become a couple of maroons for King George.

It was amazing to see honesty and anger. Well controlled but real anger. Bill Clinton set the story straight.
We are doing the best we can but to lose in Nov is just beyond bearing.
Bills anger helped just a bit with the terrible frustration.

This guy Chavez from Venezuela claiming the other day that Bush was the devil, got it all wrong. Cheney is Beelzebub. Rove is ‘the lord of the flies’. God only knows what Bush is, or how he fits into the scheme of things. The Heavenly jury may be out on this question for a mighty long time.

ab initio @
11

Any ideas why the liberal blogosphere has not organized any push back against the torture and indefinite detention with no judicial review legislation “compromise” that the Repubs are pushing for this week?

Is this less important than Path to 9/11?

Dems not taking a distinct stand against torture and kangaroo courts and relying on Warner/McCain has turned out to be a bad strategy. First, it goes to show that the Dems don’t have courage of conviction nor principles they stand for but instead will do anything to get elected. Each time they have taken that approach not only have they not got elected but it further disillusions their base. The legalization of torture and trashing of established law and precedence as well as the Geneva Conventions is in many ways an Iraq vote redux in 2002. The Dems by and large voted to authorize war and did not stand by principle and many are haunted by that vote today. It will not be long before the torture and indefinite detention law with no habeas corpus will come back to haunt. Once the cat is out of the bag then its only a matter time that political opponents, folks with the wrong name or skin color or beliefs get labeled as the new “terrorist”.

Thanks for that important observation. It had not occured to us that there was a problem with this torture thing. Look over all the previous posts and threads where everyone thought it was kinda groovy.

BRW, what exactly are you doing about it?

This is how the wapoo describes Wallace in their piece this morning– they are taking comments on this article. So scroll down and have some fun. You gotta read the Clinton haters (LOL– they can’t even make an argument!)…and the requisite brown people haters. Most seem supportive of Bill, though.

Wallace, a 30-year broadcast veteran who worked at NBC and ABC before Fox, is not usually considered part of the network’s conservative commentariat, but Clinton accused him of doing “Fox’s bidding” by preparing a “conservative hit job.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00928.html

Roger Ailes to Chris Wallace:

“You let him respond???!!! You let him respond???!!! Are you COMPLETELY unaware of our policy??

“WE DO NOT DIALOGUE WITH DEMOCRATS. WE DIALOGUE AT THEM AND TELL THEM HOW TERRIBLE THEY ARE! YOU’RE FIRED!”

Anne Holliday @ 23

Peterboy @ 4

why are rahm and schumer ignoring Iraq and the new cia torture rules.
this is the way to attack Bush. He let 9/11 happen. it was on his watch and he did nothing but ignore the threat. they attacked Clinton for paying attention to Al Quaida. This is the campaign.
not corruption in Congress. The SD race to replace two-bit Cunningham showed that.

It sure beats me why Rahm and Schumer continue to ignore Iraq and torture - same kind of twisted ill-logic my Senator Boxer continues to demonstrate - we the people can’t get their attention. Truly maddening and demoralizing. Hey fellows - find your spine - do your job - how tragic you’ve become a couple of maroons for King George.

Bush is vulnerable on every front, but the Democrats do not get to pick which front the battle will be fought on. Either Schumer and Rahm don’t understand that basic fact, or they have some deeper agenda.

Remember that their agenda is raising money, much of it from people with an affinity for another nation that employs “harsh interrogation techniques.”

“More please” indeed. Bill Clition had his faults, but his ability to nail the important points is sorely missed.

ab initio @
11

Any ideas why the liberal blogosphere has not organized any push back against the torture and indefinite detention with no judicial review legislation “compromise” that the Repubs are pushing for this week?

In the case of the “compromise” I think it’s the framing that makes us snore through this one. This has got to be cast in as larger, “Big Brother”, grab for authoritarian power.

This could be an example of using a libretarian frame that could peel off some of their base. That was a message I took away from the John Dean book disscusion and this is would be a good opportunity to do that.

Bush is getting pissy with Wolf Blitzer on CNN at the moment.

ooo, and Bush looks really mad…

and isn’t comparative to see Bush respond to 9/11 questions about his responsibility vs. Big Dog?

wallace is such a piece of shit - a real embarrassment to his family.

omg– booosh is losing it. “I wuddn’t in office that long before 9/11″– giggling wildly.

bush: preznits don’t get to do do-overs.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 31

Bush is getting pissy with Wolf Blitzer on CNN at the moment.

Shouldn’t we be saying he’s “unhinged” and “angry”?

Late last night a bunch of us discussed a postcard (or fax or email) campaign for tomorrow and Dave came up with the graphic. The Agonist has it now and our dear Jesus General is hosting the graphic so you can download, print and send:

http://webpages.charter.net/mi.....stcard.pdf

Get printing!

mr. booosh certainly musta seen Bill’s criticism of him on faux… more defensive than ever…

UptownNYChick at 37 — I believe the official Faux News term is “crazed.” Ahem.

Bill Clinton gets the job done this morning on FOX. Hillary? The Senator REALLY needs to get with the program.

Senator HRC…the “vast right-wing conspiracy” of which you once spoke has not gone anywhere and is still working over time . Hillary Clinton! Where are you?

The thing I don’t understand is the Dem. leadership bullshit that implies that election wins in Nov will allow them to undo this crap. If it isn’t stopped now, it can’t be undone. Even in the remote chance of a Dem Senate in January, there will not be a veto proof majority. These same jerks gave a pass on Alito, now torture. jeebus

Christy Hardin Smith @ 40

UptownNYChick at 37 — I believe the official Faux News term is “crazed.” Ahem.

sorry, just woke up.

For the Dem Congresscritters who’ll have to vote this coming week, I think we can quite succinctly frame the issue for them as follows:

Vote “Yes” on this legislation so Junya and Darth don’t have to go to jail.

It’s so easy to do when all you want is to make nice and keep those Repugs in power.

Oklahoma kiddo at 41 — you know, maybe it’s just me, but I get the impression that you aren’t exactly a Hillary Clinton fan? *G*

Great interview.

The thing that really stood out in my mind visually was that through the entire Clinton reading Wallace the riot act and forcefully correcting the record was the fact Wallace sat there with that trademark republican (smug, disrespectful), Bushco shiteating smirk. What an asshole…Big time. I mean he was talking to a former President and he deserved far more respect than Wallace gave him.

No, according to the great wurlitzer, Bill Clinton is unhinged for hitting back at Mike Wallaces’ diluted seed, Chris. George W. Bush is resolute and firm and strong willed for snapping like a pretzel at David Gregory.

How many stories are these major media outlets sitting on in the election run-up this time?

-GSD

Uptown at 43 — I was poking fun at Faux, not you. :) (They changed their graphic, btw, after ThinkProgress called them on it with a screen grab. hehehehe)

my too sense @ 46

Great interview.

The thing that really stood out in my mind visually was that through the entire Clinton reading Wallace the riot act and forcefully correcting the record was the fact Wallace sat there with that trademark republican (smug, disrespectful), Bushco shiteating smirk. What an asshole…Big time. I mean he was talking to a former President and he deserved far more respect than Wallace gave him.

and Bill called him right on that smirk! (and without seeming petty)

Christy Hardin Smith @ 40

UptownNYChick at 37 — I believe the official Faux News term is “crazed.” Ahem.

What? “Unhinged” wasn’t working for them any longer?

I saw Chris Wallace interview his dad some time ago. It would be so great to see Mike Wallace interview the son.

my too sense @ 46

Great interview.

The thing that really stood out in my mind visually was that through the entire Clinton reading Wallace the riot act and forcefully correcting the record was the fact Wallace sat there with that trademark republican (smug, disrespectful), Bushco shiteating smirk. What an asshole…Big time. I mean he was talking to a former President and he deserved far more respect than Wallace gave him.

And then they scream that we don’t respect their leader. Dear Lord, they did more to tear down the esteem of the ofice of the President than even Nixon in their “crazed,” obsession with the Clinton’s p*nis.

booosh now making his case for war with Iran… “nookular Iran - bad! bad!”

boosh’s face looks bad… bad makeup job? looks a little waxy… and he’s slumping in his chair…

I think he’s sick of being preznit…

Can you imagine Kerry mounting a response like that? Maybe in 1972 when he really believed something.

Please dubya, go to a kegger, take your loyal backwash with you and y’all just stay there, m’kay?

bring your chainsaw, fishin’ pole and bike so you kin keep busy.

me to me @ 15

clinton;

“I spent four hours talking to the 9/11 commision, I told them the mistakes I thought I made…I URGED them to make those mistakes public”

want to see how a real man deals with his responsiblities in life

take a good long look at bill clinton

I was hoping he would say “I spent four hours talking to the 9/11 commision and I didn’t have anyone holding my hand.”

OT - I did a book review at Amazon and got an Ole 60 Grit dig in LOL

http://www.amazon.com/Imperial.....13?ie=UTF8

Christy Hardin Smith @ 45

Oklahoma kiddo at 41 — you know, maybe it’s just me, but I get the impression that you aren’t exactly a Hillary Clinton fan? *G*

And I try to be so subtle.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 31

Bush is getting pissy with Wolf Blitzer on CNN at the moment.

“I regret when peoples lose lives” - said Bush to Blitzer - sure fooled me - Aghhhhhh!

Nice job, Cozumel. A dig for Ole 60 Grit and a lovely plug for FDL! Nice.

shorter Fred Barnes on al qaeda is growing due to the war in Iraq - “it’s all Bill Clinton’s fault”

OldCoastie @ 54

boosh’s face looks bad… bad makeup job? looks a little waxy… and he’s slumping in his chair…

I think he’s sick of being preznit…

Yeah, even with his Daddy’s baby, James Baker in the mix again trying to pull Junior from the quicksand….

Daddy, help me. No one likes me anymore.

TFB Chimpy.

-GSD

Now the Bush folks are pushing the new victim meme regarding Guantanimo…….The prisoners are in control, the jailers are the victims now.

Take logic, stand it on its head, shake vigorously….

Off Topic but BIG NEWS!

The reverse version of the Lamont/Lieberman race here in Hawaii yesterday… Our local hero Dan Akaka has defeated his Pro-Iraq challenger, Congressman Ed Case in a resounding victory!

The People’s Will has prevailed again!

A’ohe lokomaika’i i nele i ke pana’i.
-No kind deed has ever lacked its reward (Hawaiian Proverb)

I get the feeling if the Dems take the Congress, that boosh will just dry up and blow away…

he doesn’t like his job any more - it’s not as much fun as it used to be…

Breaking up is hard to do. Bush and Bill may be needing some therapy if they are going to get through this rough patch.
p.s. The NIE on the ill effects of the Iraq War on the GWOT was submitted last APRIL. FIVE months ago.

Accidentally deleted my OT post about Dan Akaka by deleting it during an “edit” so I re-posted it. Sorry about that.

I knew I would be rewarded for not watching Faux News this morning, that C & L would have the replay. I just cannot bring myself to watch that channel, ever, even if Big Dog is on. He was great. People like to say, he was a flawed president, “not perfect”. No one is perfect. He did a great job despite Ken Starr and the BS he had to endure while in office. What a complete contrast from the moron-in-chief that was interviewed by Wolfie this morning.

Nate @ 64

Off Topic but BIG NEWS!

The reverse version of the Lamont/Lieberman race here in Hawaii yesterday… Our local hero Dan Akaka has defeated his Pro-Iraq challenger, Congressman Ed Case in a resounding victory!

The People’s Will has prevailed again!

A’ohe lokomaika’i i nele i ke pana’i.
-No kind deed has ever lacked its reward (Hawaiian Proverb)

Yea!!!

They re-ran it again on FAUX. Scrumptious! Big Dog kicked ass so effectievly that in the “roundtable” afterwards even Brit “I love my dead gay son!’ Hume was cowed.

Re-Elect Billary!

That should be the campaign slogan for ‘08. Bill Clinton is the closest thing we’ve had to a political genius as President since FDR. I can see the Pugs slander against Hillary: if she’s elected, Bill’s going to be back in the White House. About 68% of the country will say, “And the problem is…?”

I hated Bill Clinton because of his capacity for parsing and duplicity. I’ve come to appreciate those qualities much more by year 6 of the Bush Administration.

FOX is being a busy little right-winger. As usual. They’re spinning Bill Clinton’s responses this morning to Wallace as being anger melt-down. If it were anyone other than FOX, I might say unbelievable.

Hey Marclord!

tho no more billary please - sigh

Don’t forget to watch the military dictator of Pakistan tonight on CBS. He’s pushing his new Simon & Shuster book: “Talibanned in the USA”.

-GSD

As to Clinton on FAUX, I have some mixed feelings…

Especially when he cast Murdoch as a victim because he is allying himself with Bill on his Global Initiative…

This appearance is as much about Murdoch as it is about Bill.

I can’t put my finger on it but something bugs me about it.

-GSD

MarcLord @
71

Re-Elect Billary!

That should be the campaign slogan for ‘08. Bill Clinton is the closest thing we’ve had to a political genius as President since FDR. I can see the Pugs slander against Hillary: if she’s elected, Bill’s going to be back in the White House. About 68% of the country will say, “And the problem is…?”

I hated Bill Clinton because of his capacity for parsing and duplicity. I’ve come to appreciate those qualities much more by year 6 of the Bush Administration.

I mean no offense, but by the time 2008 rolls around, I want us to set our sights a little higher. That is especially true fter 6 years of Bush.

Just saw Jane Harmon on CNN discussing the upcoming torture bill and I was shocked, she put out strong, great points, clearly outlined the attempt to box in the Democrats as being weak on terror…

Spector looked slimmy and tried the laugh poohpooh wingnut defense…. silly Democrats… they have nothing but to whine or be angry… silly little Democrats..

Cant watch McCain…. had back to back commercials … first Kyl’s I have principles ad and then JD Hayworth’s dragging out every winger Sherriff in rural AZ who listen to Limpbog….. too much ick factor before my second cup of coffee…

Also, that Hamid Karzai is one smoothe talking, well dressed and charming Bush sycophant.

-GSD

Siun @ 73

Hey Marclord!

tho no more billary please - sigh

For sure. If I vote for Senator Clinton for president, I’m casting my ballot for the Senator. NOT Bill.

Peterboy @
5

the lead stories in the Post and NYTimes are that the Iraq War increased terrorism!

But note that, at least in the WP story, they take a snide swipe at the NIE that “concluded” that Iraq had WMD, as a way of discrediting NIE in general. I wrote the author and pointed out that it was the cherry-picked version that the Bush administration released to the public, and not the NIE itself, which was faulty. If you take a long enough document and cross out the words you don’t like, you can make it support any position. If that support later turns out to be misguided, the fault may well be with the cherry picking, not the original document.

It’s good that they are reporting on the present NIE, but it would be better if they could do so without trying to aid and abet the rewriting of history in the process.

–MarkusQ

katymine - I missed Harmon in CNN… did it sound like she has a plan for slowing or stopping this thing?

Hey Siun, ok I will knock it off.

You only have about a year of silence left on that front, though.

And hi GSD, re: the Musharraf book deal, I take it as one more sign that we’re going to be attacking Pakistan next. Possibly sometime in October. If Musharraf is ousted in a coup (real or not), this brings up an immediate crisis: nuclear missiles in the hands of the islamo-fascia. Elect us!

More practically, Musharraf is unable to subdue the western tribal zones where a major pipeline needs to be built. And invading Pakistan also shuts off Iran on the east side, before Syria is shut off to the West to complete the blockade ring.

Wigwam @ 18

Question: Is there still a window of opportunity to mount a filibuster against the War-Crimes Legalization Act of 2006?

Yes,
It hasn’t passed yet

Christy Hardin Smith @ 17

ab initio at 11 — yes, here’s an idea — we’re a whole disperate group of people who are trying to find an effective way to simultaneously scream that torture is wrong and to win an election in November because it has to be done. And we are just people, who are trying to do about fifty bazillion things, work jobs, take care of our families and everything else at the same time.

Sometimes, things coalesce just right — as they did with the 9/11 movie. Sometimes we have to feel our way through and work the angles as we can, with or without party support. But we are human beings, not super heroes, and we are doing the best we can.

Yes to both of you. But one thing toward the end of the last blog struck me as particularly prescient. Namely, someone pointed out that the torture decision goes back to cover November 1997. Why? One of the things that most impresses me on the Lamont campaign is how quickly everyone involved has been in getting out the facts, and creatively countering. Here too, I think that we need to get at the facts, and make sure to get them into public air. Ultimately, the press followed the ABC-Disney fiasco because we were active in countering the mistruths in it. The problem here is that there is no readily identifiable ABC-Disney to attack. And, frankly, the Dems (and Republicans) are both freaked out about being called “soft on terrorism.” Frankly, I am as frightened about our roll down the highway out of control toward an Iran bombing. My hope is that eventually (hopefully in my life time) the Bush nuts canbe brought up for war crimes either here in the US or elsewhere.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 79

Siun @ 73

Hey Marclord!

tho no more billary please - sigh

For sure. If I vote for Senator Clinton for president, I’m casting my ballot for the Senator. NOT Bill.

But a vote for Hillary is a vote for Bill, too. My point is that he would, quite literally, be back in the White House.

OldCoastie @ 81

katymine - I missed Harmon in CNN… did it sound like she has a plan for slowing or stopping this thing?

I was doing my first run of channel surfing and caught just a little bit of the segment but I had to do a double take because it was Harmon…… It is amazing how a primary challange can do a 2×4 attitude adjustment ….. too bad that others need a 4×4 lesson right RGJoe?

I find I disagree with Harmon frequently, but she is quite able to speak up and speak well and with plenty of authority… she is someone I’d love to see get on board with the progressives… my hope is she will find a way to block the torture bill…

faux now is fussing about Chavez … sheesh, there are too many targets for W’s next war!

Marc,

Its funny, I almost never factor in the oil chessboarding of the world.

That whole western strip is the oil pipline area, of course…..

So what options would a rational man act upon? Well, an irational man would opt for another attack on a Muslim nation to upset the applecart….

As has been said, these bastards are getting ready to “kick the chessboard over” in order to guarantee endless war for endless peace.

-GSD

Also, Chavez is up to some good gameplaying. If he loses the US market, I am sure that he’ll find lots of new customers…perhaps China wouldlike another rib-rocked ally on the southern tier of the US….

This will also allow the warmongers to start with the “Caracas is 900 miles from Austin Texas” line to oil the war machinery for a the Chinese threat.

MarcLord @ 85

Oklahoma kiddo @ 79

Siun @ 73

For sure. If I vote for Senator Clinton for president, I’m casting my ballot for the Senator. NOT Bill.

But a vote for Hillary is a vote for Bill, too. My point is that he would, quite literally, be back in the White House.

Perhaps I’m not reading you correctly. Are we talking about a co-presidency or perhaps a de facto chief exec.?

Waaaay OT but if people need a break from political tv and have even a slight curiosity about motor sport; moto-gp is on the speed channel at 1:00 ET. That and Olbermann are the only tv for me: weird

Richmond, there has been speculation on earlier threads that the retroactive dating to November 1997 is because extraordinary rendition got approval for the first time in the USA from the Clinton administration. So perhaps they threw a bone to the Democrats to quiet their objections.

ab initio @
11

Any ideas why the liberal blogosphere has not organized any push back against the torture and indefinite detention with no judicial review legislation “compromise” that the Repubs are pushing for this week?

Is this less important than Path to 9/11?

Dems not taking a distinct stand against torture and kangaroo courts and relying on Warner/McCain has turned out to be a bad strategy. First, it goes to show that the Dems don’t have courage of conviction nor principles they stand for but instead will do anything to get elected. Each time they have taken that approach not only have they not got elected but it further disillusions their base. The legalization of torture and trashing of established law and precedence as well as the Geneva Conventions is in many ways an Iraq vote redux in 2002. The Dems by and large voted to authorize war and did not stand by principle and many are haunted by that vote today. It will not be long before the torture and indefinite detention law with no habeas corpus will come back to haunt. Once the cat is out of the bag then its only a matter time that political opponents, folks with the wrong name or skin color or beliefs get labeled as the new “terrorist”.

It appears that this matter got real traction in the blogosphere too late. Two weeks ago might have been sufficient time, but “The Path to 9/11″ held attention that weekend, which was probably too late for that battle. There must be some object lessons in all of this.

From C-SPAN’s broadcast of Gonzales’s August-second appearance before the Senate Armed Services Committee it was absolutely clear what was coming on the matter of legalization of war crimes. It was a carefully scripted Kubuki rehersal up to but not including the happy compromise. Also, Hilary stuck her two-cents worth in that time. Among other things Gonzales said that: “It seems to us it is appropriate for Congress to consider whether or not to provide additional protections for those who’ve relied in good faith upon decisions made by their superiors.” R Jeffrey Smith wrote this
in the next day’s Washington Post.

My point is that we cold have and should have seen it coming, except possibly for the McCain/Bush compromise and the inaction by the Democrats. From the beginning, my bets were on a compromise. McCain may be against torture, but he has made it clear that he has his price on almost everything, even kissing up to people who attack his family. But the deafening silence from the Democrats leaves me sick. A no-risk opportunity to wave the flag for civilization and to shame the Republicans for selling out traditional American values and failure to support our troops by exposing them to retaliatory torture. Talk about a gift!!

Siun @ 38

Late last night a bunch of us discussed a postcard (or fax or email) campaign for tomorrow and Dave came up with the graphic. The Agonist has it now and our dear Jesus General is hosting the graphic so you can download, print and send:

http://webpages.charter.net/mi.....stcard.pdf

Get printing!

I just emailed it with instructions to forward to all my lists and to everyone I tought of who has a list of their own. It’s going viral on LI!

SIUN this is perfect

Thank you

Richmond @ 84

But one thing toward the end of the last blog struck me as particularly prescient. Namely, someone pointed out that the torture decision goes back to cover November 1997. Why?

I tried to do a google search but did not know what to look for…
This very point was brought up by John Dean during the ACLU Townhall I attended Thursday… he through out that very question…….
What is so important about Nov 26, 1997?

Jane Harman is on CSpan right now….

Democrats are going to do what they do best: Absolutely nothing while the GOP wrestles the American voter once again into submission with threats about terrorism and gay men who want to rape their children.

Both the Times and the Post are running the “Iraq war has increased terrorism” story above the fold in the top right corner….

I think even the media doesn’t know what to do anymore.

They are afraid of Bush but they also appear to be unable to call him the worst president ever.

-GSD

Steve @ 91

Waaaay OT but if people need a break from political tv and have even a slight curiosity about motor sport; moto-gp is on the speed channel at 1:00 ET. That and Olbermann are the only tv for me: weird

pssst - Steve! I’ll confess to being a Speed channel fan myself and I’m planning to read FDL while enjoying the Dover race later … but don’t tell, I wouldn’t want anyone to know that FDL has a Nascar Mom on staff

OK. So Rumsfeld was able to pave over the anniversary of Hurricane Katrina by calling Democrats “Nazi appeasers”…

Now they were able to sandbag the run-up to the torture debate by the whole Path to 9/11 flap…..

Creating their own realities indeed.

-GSD

“Rev. Jerry Falwell: Hillary Clinton will mobilize conservative voters better than the Devil.”

Coming on the butt-end of the reactionary Republican response to Chavez, even for nuts like Falwell, this is incredible.

http://www.latimes.com/news/na.....-headlines

meta @ 92

Richmond, there has been speculation on earlier threads that the retroactive dating to November 1997 is because extraordinary rendition got approval for the first time in the USA from the Clinton administration. So perhaps they threw a bone to the Democrats to quiet their objections.

Thanks Meta. That makes alot of sense!

Oklahoma kiddo @ 100

“Rev. Jerry Falwell: Hillary Clinton will mobilize conservative voters better than the Devil.”

Coming on the butt-end of the reactionary Republican response to Chavez, even for nuts like Falwell, this is incredible.

http://www.latimes.com/news/na.....-headlines

In Republican World it is insane to call their fascist actions and policies out. It is ok for Pat Robertson to call for assassinations and for Limp-baugh to call Daschle “El Diablo”…

It’s those “unhinged liberals” though.

-GSD

OldCoastie @
32

ooo, and Bush looks really mad…

Unhinged, maybe?

It seems the only way Democrats can get their message out is to fight back on the spot against the sandbagging as many here have said. I suspect, and hope, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert and Keith Olbermann will take over where former President Clinton left off.

Richmond @ 101

meta @ 92

Richmond, there has been speculation on earlier threads that the retroactive dating to November 1997 is because extraordinary rendition got approval for the first time in the USA from the Clinton administration. So perhaps they threw a bone to the Democrats to quiet their objections.

Thanks Meta. That makes alot of sense!

It is so they can yell at the top of their lungs: “Bill Clinton did it too!”.

-GSD

Whoop! Go Bill!

I’m very glad he pushed back on this.

Siun@98 My mother,who was a huge political junkie,rabid Dem and Clintonite became a NASCAR junkie in her late 80’s as she became less mobile. Moto-gp is worth one look just to see Valentino Rossi ride a bike. He is the best there is and ever was and he is a cute Italian if you are into cute Italians.

katymine @ 95

Richmond @ 84

But one thing toward the end of the last blog struck me as particularly prescient. Namely, someone pointed out that the torture decision goes back to cover November 1997. Why?

I tried to do a google search but did not know what to look for…
This very point was brought up by John Dean during the ACLU Townhall I attended Thursday… he through out that very question…….
What is so important about Nov 26, 1997?

Jane Harman is on CSpan right now….

Here is what I wrote on the last blog: I did a google search on the date, and came to the Washington Post website synopsis of key issues - a web chronology (On Politics Washingtonpost.com). Interestingly we read for August 29, 1997 that the US population not optimistic on nation’s course. Then on Feb 20, 1998 we learn that 68% show strong support for bombing Iraq. Probably the Nov 1997 date has something to do with Bush admin illegal actions in Iraw in lead up to the war.

But also see Meta at 92 above!