I
With The Path to 9/11, the right-wing propaganda machine took the opportunity to hijack popular culture and seed the narrative that the failures of the Bush Administration are all Bill Clinton’s fault (and as part of an ongoing PR campaign by David Horowitz and others to shift the blame for 9/11 from Bush to Clinton). Whatever the actual legacy of the Clinton era might be, it has nothing to do with the incompetence, greed, stupidity, arrogance and lust for power that have fueled our national 6 year nightmare and brought us to the brink of economic disaster with an interminable, blundered war.
Is this a determined campaign strategy for November? You bet it is. As mcjoan said today:
The NYT is reporting that Bush and the Republicans are going to run against, get this, the Clinton years:
"The Democrats have made their position clear," Mr. Bush said. "I want you to remember the last time they had control of the United States Congress back in 1993, they passed a massive tax increase."
Yep. Those 1990s were an economic disaster weren’t they? 25 million jobs. Record budget surpluses. No military debacles. Who would want that?
Toward that end, Chris Wallace sandbagged the Big Dog today on Fox News today. Yes I know it’s unfathomable to many that anyone would take Fox News at their word but there are actual rules of journalism that are usually observed in such cases, and when even an organization as disreputable as Fox News gives you their word that they want to interview you only about specific topics, and you agree to those terms, you sort of expect them to abide by it.
According to sources familiar with the negotiation, Chris Wallace reportedly used his slam of Path to 9/11 to lure Bill Clinton onto the show and promised to ask him only about the Clinton Global Initiative. Instead, the second question out of his mouth was "what my viewers want to know most is why you didn’t do more about terrorism and Osama Bin Laden."
Clinton was evidently furious. All I can say is — what took you so long? It was nice to see Clinton come out swinging after the blogs blazed the trail over the ABC fraudumentary, and I’m tickled pink he’s decided to take a more agressive approach to keeping professional whitewashers of the GOP a bit more honest.
Wallace has carried GOP water before — by trying to claim that Bush had never linked Sadaam Hussein and 9/11, by letting Administraion shills peddle disinformation without question, and by being an all-around apologist for torture. Remember this tactful quote about Gitmo detainees to Hugh Hewitt?
Excuse me? I mean, you know, Auschwitz? Bergen Belsen? The Soviet gulag? I think they would have been very happy to be allowed to defecate on themselves.
I remember Wolcott had a few nice words for some early career integrity Wallace may have once had. Even Wolcott now admits — that time is long gone. Wallace just climbed down even further into the right wing sewer, just when nobody thought there was another rung on that particular ladder. At this point he’d have to look up to see O’Reilly’s ass, and I for one can’t wait to see Big Dog jamming his finger into Wallace’s flabby, servile puddin’ face on Sunday morning. That will be something to get up for indeed.
Update: Digby says they are showing the clip on Fox now.
Related posts:
Spotlight
Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search
Fitz!
Boy, 8 years of peace & prosperity really sucked, didn’t it?
Fitz! Jane!
Good evening all…And so glad to see Zenn!!!
How do we DECLARE WAR on Pox News?
Who are their advertisers?
“We’re going to the mattresses.”
It’s a wonder Mike Wallace will even speak to his son.
Well, I read via Arianna on HuffPo that the Dems want to run on the economy, so it may be deja vu all over again.
So what are the odds that Pox news is actually going to run the part of the interview where Big Dog chews up the Wallace boner?
I’d love to see it, but I doubt they will show it.
Chris Wallace would be working at a convenience store selling Slurpees and stinky hot dogs if not for his famous old man.
All night shift.
Weekends.
Hey, wingnuts! By refusing to blame those who are actually responsible and make them fix their mistakes, you are endangering the country. Why do you hate America?
OT Your daily gas and oil prices
Average price for regular gasoline 9/22/06 in 50 states and DC
$3.00 plus 1 state
$2.90 plus 1 state
$2.80 plus 6 states
$2.70 plus 2 states
$2.60 plus 6 states
$2.50 plus 3 states
$2.40 plus 9 states
$2.30 plus 11 states
$2.20 plus 10 states
$2.10 plus 2 states
Average national price: $2.441, down $.019
Highest recorded national average price: $3.057 9/5/2005
Highest average price: Hawaii $3.207
Lowest average price: Missouri $2.159
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.asp
Nymex Crude Future $61.59, down $60.55
Dated Brent Spot $59.08, down $1.18
WTI Cushing Spot $60.08, down $.96
Gasoline continues its Republican friendly fall. Oil continues to circle the $60 mark.
FYI folks, from the previous thread. Spotlight is happy again. (Had a little trouble with the one post. Nothing major.) Sorry for the inconvenience.
Thanks Mark.
So, will the Big Dog keep on the attack??? He needs to be out on the campaign trail for Dems reminding everyone about those 8 years of peace and prosperity — and asking the Reagan question ” are you better off now than you were then?”
Also, what the hell — isn’t anyone going to sue ABC?! American Airlines, Albright, Berger, Big Dog??? You can still get an injunction against any DVD release and damages… right? You can damn well make a nasty fight of it — it would be on the news, you know how the tabloid press loves them some cat fights — it would hijack the news agenda that Rove is alwasy spinning and that the press is always buying into… am I wishing in vain?
It was cloudy here today. I blame Clinton.
All this bullshit is stinking up the country. Somebody build a waste processing plant. Please?
“The Democrats have made their position clear,” Mr. Bush said. “I want you to remember the last time they had control of the United States Congress back in 1993, they passed a massive tax increase.”
Putting their money on the fact that apparently. The average American, has the attention span of a flea…on crack.
Hugh @
14
He had 8 years to do something about the fucking weather, and he didn’t do squat. See if I ever vote for a Democrat again.
Bustednuckles @ 16
And when has that ever been an incorrect assumpt- Look, over there! A missing white woman!
drunkenhausfrau @ 13
As much as I’d like to see ABC/Disney brought to justice, IMO we already hurt them plenty with our work.
I think it’s time to pick our battles wisely, and any work on P2911 would be better spent doing positive things for our candidates.
Oh, and of course digging up new dirt that can hurt.
Hey, I just had a thought. Jane’s a blonde white woman – if one of us kidnapped her, and then released weekly or even daily video statements from our “captive”, the progressive viewpoint would get media coverage like it’s never had before.
I would totally volunteer, but my apartment’s a mess…
John Casper @ 12
Thank you for bring the problem to my attention!
Balrog @ 19
PS That doesn’t mean I’ll give one cent to any ABC or Disney ventures. Embargo ON!
Would love for Clinton to respond with something like, “Chris, you wouldn’t be hiding behind your viewers, would you? Your dad would just be honest and say that he wants to know the answer to that question…no, I take that back. Your dad would have done the research and wouldn’t have to ask, so if your viewers are asking that question, all I can take away from that is that it says a lot about how litle factual information this network is gving them. That’s really a shame, Chris, because here we are, 5 years after the 9/11 attacks, and MY question is, why hasn’t Bush found bin Laden? Why didn’t they pick him up in Tora Bora? Why did they disband the unit that was looking for him? Why did they stop looking for him for almost three years, and just suddenly get interested again, a couple of months before the elections? Yeah, those are my questions. Say, how is your dad, anyway? He’s such a fine journalist. Please give him my regards, and tell him I sure wish there were more like him in the media today.”
Well… OK… Balrog, you are right — time to focus our energies on taking back the House and Senate. BUT, when we do, I’d like to see some payback on Disney/ABC! And, of course, war profiteer investigations, impeachment hearings, etc.
And I’d still loke Big Dog to be on the attack from now to November — every time they blame him or disparage him, he should smack back — remind people what it was like when we only had to worry about sexual indiscretions…
Eli @
18
Deep, dirty desperation. They’ve got nothing left.
Clinton was evidently furious.
All I can say is, thank goodness Wallace succeeded where the leading lights of the progressive blogosphere (apparently) let us down. Bill Clinton channeling his intellect through a blast of righteous fury is a peak experience like Magic Johnson leading a fast break, or Tiger Woods on the back nine of the final round. (Jim Murray, RIP.)
I was sorely disappointed after the Clinton blogger lunch that no one had managed to provoke an explosion, or at least not one that anyone mentioned. I mean, really, Aravosis was there, and nothing?!?
So, as slimy as he may be, I am a little bit pleased with Chris Wallace for sacrificing himself for our viewing pleasure.
What would I’d really like to see? Senator H.R. Clinton get “evidently furious”. That’s what! What’s taking the Senator “so long?” We need leadership, Senator Clinton! Now! Like in “vast right-wing conspiracy”.
Given his hand-holding with 41 and some other stuff, it’s hard to have faith in ole Bill, but generally I feel about him the way I feel about Fitz. You know he’s got it in him and he is easily often at his best going off-the-cuff ; he also has his (real) record to throw back in that idiot’s face. He knew where he was and what the possibilities were. I look forward to seeing the tape of his response, but unfortunately it is a tape now, not live and who knows what the Faux lunatics will do via editing?
Frankly, I have very little doubt that Clinton didn’t completely expect Faux to break their “agreement.” But you know what else? I think Clinton also could give a shit whether they did or not. If Wallace thought he was “sandbagging” Clinton, he’s a bigger idiot than I think he is. Unlike our current moron-in-chief, Clinton can handle himself anytime, anywhere, on any topic. And he’s even better when he’s a little riled up.
BTW, I fully expect this segment to never make it on the air.
dave @ 29
My guess was that it’ll make it on the air, but with Clinton’s response edited to incoherent shreds.
Oh, Please!!! STFU!!! Faux “news”
Even though Bill did some things I disagreed with, he did a hell of a lot more than Saint Duhhh!bya
Clinton’s record
Given that there is so much to be angry about, I think the absence of anger diminishes our cause. The hell with “anger management;” we need to see some anger. And the first reporter who suggests that any of the women take a pill ought to be the first one decked.
People registered at kos, Mary needs recommends:
Mary @ 33
If you are not registered, get over there and sign up. It will take 24 hours but then you can help amplify fdl people who post for a large audience. Thx.
Swopa @
26
Swopa- I had a question about that phrase- as in, where and when was “Clinton evidently furious”- on the air, after the fact in private conversation?? It’s a good beginning, but unless it makes the airwaves….
Arianna jumped the gun on her post apparently. Via Atrios, the American Prospect goes digging.
http://www.prospect.org/weblog…..tml#010038
Brooks and Shields on the NewsHour both say that the “maverick” Senators won over torture. Idiots. Three words guys: No habeas corpus. Brooks: Senators got that no change in the Geneva Conventions and then goes on to say that President can interpret them. Rough stuff still OK but no waterboarding. Hypothermia, sleep deprivation, forced positions, anyone? Brooks doesn’t say because well the specifics sound so much like torture, don’t they?
If this Wallace interview is what it takes to shake up Bill Clinton a bit and see what kind of people we are dealing with, I am all for it.
I am actually amazed that Clinton, who has been wrestling with the vile Republican noise machine for over a decade now, still seems somehow oblivious to the amoral, take-no-prisoners nature of the modern Republican party.
Clinton needs the scales to fall from his eyes pronto, and I am all in favor of anyone who can accelerate this process.
If Wallace helps to facilitate Clinton’s political awakening with his lizardly interview stunt, then more power to him.
Brooks and Shields on the NewsHour both say that the “maverick” Senators won over torture.
“Brooks-Shields” always makes me snicker just a little bit…
If Fox News wants a good rant, can we send Christy or Mary or Looseheadprop?
I am actually amazed that Clinton, who has been wrestling with the vile Republican noise machine for over a decade now, still seems somehow oblivious to the amoral, take-no-prisoners nature of the modern Republican party.
But that George H. W. Bush seems like such a nice man…
Good report, Jane.
Eli – I believe Clinton probably believes that.
Is there any way to get through to Clinton?
He could be the most tremendous ally the blogosphere ever had, if he could only understand what we are doing battle against, and also that the battle is not one we have chosen, but one that has been thrust upon us.
I want Democrats with guts! If we don’t get some soon, we’re going to lose again in 2008. American’s crave strong, truth-telling statesmen and women. People who aren’t afraid to say what they think, regardless of elections.
egregious @
33
Done. It’s a good diary — no surprise.
Dave at #29 is correct: Wallace off-spring versus Bill Clinton is really no match.
Bill is the Muhammed Ali of politics. You’re not gonna land a solid punch on the guy, you’re just not.
Chris Matthews absolutely laughed Tony Perkins off the set regarding Perkins’ claim that because Israel said it was so, that was proof enough that Saddam had WMD’s.
I agree with Walcott. His daddy must see the little shit head and despair that he didn’t use a rubber. What a waste of his seed.
Also, agree with OFG. If Dems don’t grow a pair,I think I’ll move. Venezuela maybe?
yep and Tony came back from the break lookin glum and wishing he had a new infusion of kool aide or sumthin’!
“hey tony, how’s ralph reed and pat and jerry doin, man?”
What’s really revolting is that Rove and the rest are now saying that if Democrats are elected, then they will raise taxes. The Republican solution to not raising taxes is to simply print “funny money”. Unbelievable!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 49
I suspect there are a lot of voters for whom this is their single issue. They don’t really care what the government does, they just don’t want to pay for it.
Slothrop @ 45
But Bill C. still has triangulation problems. He still doesn’t realize that Lieberman, for example, is part of pollution, not the solution.
everything most people are doing right now in govt is revolting. I am waiting (too patiently…..) to see an actual revolt! Are we really gonna have to go grab a pitchfork, link arms and scream and holler and march?
In case you aren’t aware of it, Fox actually went to court and got a ruling that it was not illegal to falsify the news.
http://www.projectcensored.org…..05/11.html
Kewalo @ 53
Why ever would they need to do that? Why, that’s like a president trying to legalize torture and warrantless wiretapping.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 49
I wish it were as simple as just printing more money. We are currently borrowing over $1B a day. Over $500B last year, much of it from Asia. It’s pretty scary in my opinion. They are the borrow and spend administration.
The non star-struck KO coming up with Bill Clinton this hour…
GO Keith!
angie @ 52
I hear there is a sale on pitchforks at the local seed and hardware store. Jus’ sayin’.
‘Rather huge-dog’ coming up on Keithermann.
Kewalo @ 55
Politically speaking, borrowing is better than taxing.
Economically and fiscally speaking, well… not so much.
Morris Sheppard @ 57
I’ll break the piggybank and buy a passel right now !
Hugh @ 36
I was furious at Shields for that. Has he been asleep all day? Lost his glasses and can’t read? Head up his ***? VERY disappointed in him as he usually at least gets some of what’s going on.
Sheesh.
angie @ 56
A bit of a comedown, I suppose, but I’m sure Jane is too busy to appear every day of the week, so Keith has to fill the time with someone…
In passing, the House on Sept. 20 passed HR 4844 the Federal Election Integrity Act of 2006 aka another voter suppression bill 228-196 on a nearly party line vote with only 4 Democrats voting for and 3 Republicans against. The bill requires that voters present a photo ID to vote and that the ID require proof of citizenship for its issuance. First, there is little evidence that voter impersonation is much of a problem. Second, while the bill throws a few crumbs to the indigent, it essentially creates a hurdle for poor voters requiring significant expenditure of time and resources that they don’t have and further requiring documentation that they may not have and could have difficulty in getting.
The people who will buy the raising taxes mantra are the ones who think their hard-earned money is going to buy armor for the troops and useful defense. They don’t seem to understand that it was their 9B that mysteriously disappeared, that it was their hundred dollar bills that were sitting around in suitcases in Baghdad, along with the guns, and that it is their cold hard cash that gets multiplied by factors of 10 every time Rummy hires mercenaries with no oath of honor. Why doesn’t somebody talk to theRepubs about that when they threaten this nonsense. Even if taxes were raised, at least with Dems you might see it on Main Street, not watch it go up, literally, in a puff of smoke.
Swopa @ 62
OMG, Swopa, did Jane go on KO? are you kidding me???
Swopa @ 62
ha! right and spot on Swopa!
Kewalo @ 55
Printing money IS, in a sense, raising taxes, on our children’s children as far as one can see. The bottom line is that it’s money we do not have. Taxes will have to one day be raised hugely to cover for our gross irresponsibility. The Republicans are supposed to be deficit hawks. That’s the way they advertise themselves. More broken Republican promises. Broken promises: a litany of the GOP.
zennurse @ 65
zenn,
Great to have you back. You can see Jane with KO here
Hugh @ 63
This is republicans pretending that they understand how to “do” homeland security. This and the brilliant wall. I heard a sheriff from Laredo last night saying he thought the wall was the stupidest thing he could imagine.
Clinton got rolled. What an idiot
to go on Fox.
Doesn’t matter if it was a dirty trick.
They won the round. Got that it is
all Clinton’s fault out in front
again.
All the media is in the tank.
Someone needs to buy a network or it
will always be like this.
xyz @ 37
Couldn’t agree with you more. Am very frustrated with Clinton. When will he get a clue – if not for himself, then for the American people?
I think at the bottom of all his “issues” is the need to be liked. It’s his fatal flaw. Well, that and…
zennurse @ 65
It’s true!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koJrAQrBofM
Is it me or does the Big Dog not look or sound well? He seems a bit spacier than I recall at least in his demeanor, not in the quality of his answers.
Hey, Deb, how are you? Been thinkin of you. Left a note re: my absence last thread, got full moon and fibro here. Ought to be better now.
big hug, you kath and selise.
dab from CT @ 71
The need to be licked?
zennurse @ 65
zenn…take a look at the YouTube.
zennurse @ 74
Big {{{{hug}}}} back. I’m not around as much since work has started up again. Damn, it really gets in the way of my blogging.
oh please help us Jon Turley!!!!!
pleasssssse.
He does’t look well. Could be his heart condition.
O/T but this is pretty good – I was reading today that the Montana Broadcasting Association has taken extreme issue about a new DSCC ad against Conrad Burns using Burns’ own words.
Senator Conrad Burns – Too Foul-Mouthed For Television
The hypocracy these idiots is getting so thick its becoming difficult to wade through it. So I had to blog about it.
zennurse,
I agree the photo voter ID is atmospherics because I don’t think it will go anywhere in the Senate. For me, it just goes to show how much time the Republican House is willing to waste on non starters and what a bunch of yahoos they are.
Turley: this legislation means you may not be able to go early medieval, but you can go late medieval.
The world will not accept this.
He’s been doin’ the tour o’media again. he looks tired and old. I think he’s the model for the energizer bunny.
More importantly (for me) than what Bill is going to say or do, is what Senator Clinton is saying (or not saying) and doing. Right now the Senator is the ONLY game in (the Democratic) town.
Cozumel @
72
zennurse — here’s the fdl link:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..-was-fast/
After you’ve seen the video, you are required to answer the question: “How was my hair?”
Turley sounds completely disgusted…
this legislation is trash and worse.
let’s march.
thank you Professor Turley. We are a rogue state and a pariah.
After you’ve seen the video, you are required to answer the question: “How was my hair?”
Her hair was perfect and she knows it… She was just fishin’ for compliments! :)
If you want to get a true sense of how conservative Chris Wallace is, listen to him each Friday being interviewed by WABC radio host John Gambling.
Turley is Excellent. This video needs to be front paged and then spotlighted to every senator and congresscritter along with every “reputable” news source out there, if there are any left.
I too do not think it was wisdom at it’s finest for former President Clinton to elect to appear on Fox.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 67
I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just adding to your thesis about the republicans and the lies they tell.
I always wanted grandchildren, now I am almost glad I don’t have any. Things are such a mess it just makes me feel sick and overwhelmed.
james @ 89
Does Bill Bennett ever co-host?
Is this Chris Wallace interview on the net yet? if so, can someone point it out? And if not, when is its eta?
Swopa @
26
Swopa rules!
Never thought I’d see Jim Murray’s name on an FDL thread. A site with some of his greatest quotes, I’ve listed some examples below
so, I got a question… if this nonsense within the new compromise torture
bullbill is passed, then does Lindy England and that big thug boyfriend of hers walk out of jail free?Kewalo @ 92
Very respectfully understood. I knew you were just adding some things to what I forgot to say. And I like that!
angie @ 87
I agree.
KO is likely as smart as Bill…
OldCoastie @ 96
Good question! After all, the point was to make legal torture retroactive to cover the torturers’ asses.
motherlowman @ 100
apparently, it is retroactive to 1997… so the time period works for those two…
Moe99—Atrios says it will air on Sunday.
By the way…nice article at SRP.
OldCoastie @ 101
How and why did they come up with 1997, I wonder.
OldCoastie @ 96
Nah, they are only enlisted personnel.
President Clinton says on Olbermann a few minutes ago, that with respect to terrorists; they have an ideology and therefore terrorists know all the answers, and that facts are meaningless to them. Does this remind us of anyone else?
there are some interesting posts over at Col. Lang’s blog that are written by people with long experience in the interrogation business. The most successful techniques never involve torture.
http://turcopolier.typepad.com….._tyrannis/
All of this is just one more bone thrown to the red meat crowd for the purpose of holding on to power. The Republican base likes torture. Bush likes talking about it because it revs up the base. It doesn’t matter that America goes down the drain. The only thing that matters is that these Republican criminals retain power.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 105
yes.
lina @ 106
This is the key. Ultimately, torture was never really about intelligence. It’s about punishment and revenge.
Off topic (a bit). But how about a tiny bit of good news? I checked this evening and Noam Chomsky’s book (plugged by Hugo Chavez at the UN on Wednesday) is now (Friday night) #1 at Amazon!
OC@99 Bill is very smart..when you talk to him he sort of sucks you into his space..it’s weird.
Jane could explain the feeling better..I am sure.
Thanks for all trhe links to our fabulous Jane. Christy on CSpan ( a while ago), Jane on KO, my gosh we are a breath away from the stars!
And Jane, as Warren Zevon said, your hair was perfect. (and the beaming was great, pah!)
Gotta go to bed to be fresh for my patients, thanks for the hugs, see you for sure on Monday.
ps, is there a link to the Ricki Lee/SNZ ad? We are huge SNZ fans here.
pps just mentioning again, for Deb partly, that Noam Chomsky is speaking at City Hall in Gloucester, MA Sunday night at 7 (I think). It is a free event. JFYI.
nitey-nite
Eli @ 108
YES
angie @ 107
my ex-husband.
(sorry, guess you didn’t mean him)
bye
Go Noam Chomsky!
bye zen and you funny.
zennurse @ 111
zenn,
Wish I could but Sunday nights I’m on the Cape– the other Cape. Thanks for the heads up though and rest well.
Great graphic,
Gotta run Bubba is back on Countdown!
John Casper @ 112
Remember, Dobson and Focus on the Family crowd are gung ho for child beating.
Bill looked like he’d been the host and chief planner of a major conference that spanned several days and involved lots of public appearances and more than a few TV interviews . . .
Any of you that went to YearlyKos, how did you look when it was over?
Give the poor guy a break!
President Clinton hit the nail on the head on Olbermann. He knows the first, most important and essential step to credibility for Israel and the West in the Arab world, is to move quickly back toward the Palestinian-Israeli peace process. This man understands that without a Palestinian settlement, there will never be peace in the Middle East. And the world.
Peterr @ 118
Not criticism. Concern.
Olberman just gave congrats to Clinton for succesfully staving off a sandbagging from Chris Wallace “reporter” from Fox “News”.
Wonder how long the prepped him to get smoked by a real politician.
Man, Olbermann even closed with the Wallace “sandbagging” of Clinton on Fox (cough) news.
Does he read this blog? :)
Every so often I go back and reread the story The Onion ran the first time Bush was selected. It was funny then. Knowing what we know now, it’s something beyond funny. Something…well, read it and decide for yourselves.
–MarkusQ
Eli @ 108
and PR.
“Remember, Dobson and Focus on the Family crowd are gung ho for child beating.”
Not to mention more links on previous Lindsay thread.
MarkusQ @ 123
I really would hate to write for The Onion in the Bush era. It’s just too difficult to stay out in front of reality.
John Casper @ 95
My favorite is when he was inducted, as a sportswriter, into the baseball hall of fame.
Commenting on the irony, he noted (IIRC), “There are men who’ve stood on the moon more times than I’ve stood on third base.”
I half expect the Fox “News” interview to be ala Homer Simpson on the Venus de Gummy with the clock moving to and fro as they splice his words.
Loony batshit heads.
LindaR– see where those torturers are gathering and who is there and what they are talking about right here– just click on the speakers and the topics and make sure it’s on an empty stomach.
http://www.frcaction.org/index…..;f=WX05E01
lina @ 124
Isn’t that what PR stands for?
I almost shed a tear when they showed the petulant W in between Clinton and HW. A real president, a barely passable president (but intelligent adult), and a shit stain on Liberty.
Think Progress has the transcript of the Pox sandbagging.
#119,
Very true, but we knew all that right?
I mean, what good does it do for Clinton to say so on KO?
I don’t see it helping in Nov.
Eli @ 130
yep.
torture is gonna get them up off their couches and into the voting booth this Nov. (via church buses don’t forget).
lina @ 134
‘Cuz everyone knows Jesus totally hearts torture.
I’m sitting here watching Keith O. interview Bill Clinton. Clinton can still make me so emotional. I agree with him on so many topics and I truly respect his intellect and what he’s been able to accomplish.
At the same time, I sit here and look at him and think, damn it, you had to go for the b.j., didn’t you? The whole Lewinsky thing happened during the government shut-down, a time during which he made Newtie et al blink. Clinton was riding the top of the wave and he had to give the slime-merchants something with which to work. People made fun of Hillary Clinton when she said there was vast right wing conspiracy, but she did have a point. There was a legion of folks out there just looking for a chance to discredit Clinton, regardless of the subject. They’d have settled for anything and eventually they found it.
Bill, I love you, but deep down, I’m still angry with you on a certain level.
That said, why doesn’t that work now? In short, because Bush and his cronies have no shame. When they caught Clinton for getting a b.j., the pundits shrieked and those of us with a sense of morality had to hang our heads and admit that messing with an intern really isn’t the thing to do. With this administration, they’re killing our military (and a staggering number of civilians) in a war they started with and continue to wage under an umbrella of baldfaced lies. They’ve driven our country deep into debt while funneling BILLIONS of dollars into the pockets of their cronies and themselves. They ignore or try to gut the Constitution and Bill of Rights and try to say we’re un-American for objecting. They starve programs that feed children, educate kids and college students, and fund first responders. All these things, running from questionable to illegal to completely amoral, they do while praising Jesus (whose teachings they ignore or do not understand) and branding critics as traitors or fools.
Alex @ 133
I see your point. But the large picture steers me toward concern about peace between the Israelis and Palestinians.
And no questions on the fact that “patriot” republicans called wag the dog when he responded to terrorist attacks? That they were all about cruel “oversight” when Clinton was president and no oversight when brutal violations occur.
Republicans are a joke, not only for the country – but as a dive in our history, and to the world.
They will steal the election, they will steal the money, they will take life. Its in a bad way.
The “October suprise” its a fucking vote on some batshit smashing of Liberty. It is on the torture vote that will smash H Corpus, smash torture of children, smash Genvea, smash scooping up americans and executing them without seeing the evidence, smash detention of Americans, and smash the Constitution. It has been made clear that the power to try to stop a ticking terrorist attack can be granted without erasing 300 years.
Our Democracy is wasted, our Republic smashed, our Constitution dashed, and or new Empire on its last gasp. All I want is the True Democracy, and I’ll settle for a Republic.
MarkusQ @ 123
Dang, I remember reading that one myself and nodding my head, but now…well, it’s almost completely and eerily prescient.
I’d like to mention that I hadn’t read any of Chomsky’s stuff until this fall semester when I assigned one of his volumes to be read by my college freshmen students in junction with Bill Bennett’s howler, Why We Fight. We are reading Chomsky’s latest entitled “Failed States” (which apparently is not as yet translated into Spanish, etc., for the pleasure of Chavez et. al.). Reading the two books together has been an eye-opener for my students, some of whom have already learned this semester in their psychology classes (I teach critical thinking and English) that Chomsky is one of the fathers of cognitive therapy and helped overturn BF Skinner as well as, of course, being the father of modern linguistics. Any way, these are conservative kids from mostly Republican right wing homes, and Chomsky has not only got them thinking but almost believing! Has any one else here (Jane, Christy) read his books on American policy? He dishes the dirt out on both sides of the political party aisle. I am having my students pick something from his book (Failed States) and investigate and research it as the topic of their freshman research paper. Am I crazy? Will I be fired? And/or waterboarded? Just asking…
angie @ 129
Stuff like this so pisses me off! Note the “Get Your Church Involved!” and “Presidential Straw Poll.” Where is the IRS when you need them?
If the Democrats don’t win the House in November, I just hope I’m not living in the territory of the future Republic of Gilead.
Please go over to kos and give this some recommends. Re Lieberman’s fundraiser, Sembler, child abuse, govt coverup.
eoc @ 172
egregious @ 142 — tried the link, didn’t work.
egregious @ 142
If a Sembler meets a dissembler, shouldn’t they cancel each other out? Or would it result in a cataclysmic explosion, like matter and antimatter?
Lindsay Beyerstein @ 174
We want to hear more about this truly evil man, yes?
I mean EVIL like in the Bible. The real thing.
Is anyone else getting a page 404 on the new thread?
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..#more-4625
RevDeb @ 132
Whoa…just read the transcript and I would bet money that segment will never air – at least not on Fox. I can see the smirk on Wallace’s face, and for the life of me I cannot think what he found so funny in what Clinton was saying that he actually laughed – unless he was thinking “neener-neener-neener! I got Bill to lose it!”
I could feel the heat coming off Clinton just reading the words – I can’t imagine how hot he was on video.
Anne @
147
They’ll air it. They’re so damn dumb, they think this makes them look good.
LindaR @
141
Well, lots of Fundamentalist Pastors and “Christian” commentators, but No rabbis? The only Jew I can easily recognize – Sen. George FELIX Allen……
motherlowman @ 148
Well, he *was* only on there to talk about his Global Initiative, after all…
Updated link for the Kos diary on the DisSembler.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/22/201056/381
Please stop by and recommend it.
More of the transcript and the link to the whole thing from Atrios.
Ok new thread is up and working fyi
I’d like to mention that I hadn’t read any of Chomsky’s stuff until this fall semester when I assigned one of his volumes to be read by my college freshmen students in junction with Bill Bennett’s howler, Why We Fight. We are reading Chomsky’s latest entitled “Failed States” (which apparently is not as yet translated into Spanish, etc., for the pleasure of Chavez et. al.). Reading the two books together has been an eye-opener for my students, some of whom have already learned this semester in their psychology classes (I teach critical thinking and English) that Chomsky is one of the fathers of cognitive therapy and helped overturn BF Skinner as well as, of course, being the father of modern linguistics. Any way, these are conservative kids from mostly Republican right wing homes, and Chomsky has not only got them thinking but almost believing! Has any one else here (Jane, Christy) read his books on American policy? He dishes the dirt out on both sides of the political party aisle. I am having my students pick something from his book (Failed States) and investigate and research it as the topic of their freshman research paper. Am I crazy? Will I be fired? And/or waterboarded? Just asking…
JustAsking, I’m having trouble with the reply button here, but just wanted to say that I prefer to hear Chomsky rather than read him. He’s utterly fantastic giving lectures.
Wanting a fuller understanding of the Israeli conflict and hoping to give my son a broader perspective on the subject than the neoconservative crappola he was reading I bought “Fateful Triangle.”
I’m sorry. I consider myself reasonably erudite, but I just couldn’t pull myself through it. I went into it about 20 pages and never picked it up again.
I did however, read BF Skinner when I was a teen, specifically “Walden Two.” No problem there.
What sort of college do you teach at? I suspect there would be a lot of freshman that would struggle with Chomsky unless you’re dealing with some of the upper leagues.
Either that or I’m a total dummy. :)
You tube link of Clinton/Wallace interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UwJabtvSUQ
OT but Yay:
The executive board of All Saints Church in Pasadena has decided to give the ol’ one fingered salute to the IRS.
They’ve “reviewed the documents” the IRS asked for, noticed that they have done nothing wrong and declined to present them.
What’s next, legal beagles?
SharonW @ 154
You’re not a dummy. I haven’t read any of his books except for Failed States and it is quite easy to read! My college is a two-year back-water in the most Red State in the Union, Utah; and the students are not top-drawer (they don’t even have to score on the ACT to be admitted, just take the test and they’re in). Yeah, and they are mostly sheltered Mormon kids (some even from polygamist families). If they can read Failed States and get hot-under-their-starched collars by doing so, so can all of us. I guess what I’m basically asking the firedoglakers is this: Chomsky skewers Clinton (the Clinton doctrine) as well as the Bush II doctrine. How bipartisan is the take here? Reading Chomsky, I feel I am seeing my own inner voice about the fraud of democracy in the United States voiced in someone else’ print! I never trusted Clinton, and of course, Bush is just a front for a bunch of fascists. I read the posts here about Big Dog, and just wonder, that’s all… (BTW: you say Chomsky is a terrific speaker and the stuff I’ve read on the Web is that he is a complete bore as a speaker. I’ll trust you on that, and go to listen to him if he ever gets Utah way (Doubtful!–very doubtful).
You’re not a dummy. I haven’t read any of his books except for Failed States and it is quite easy to read! My college is a two-year back-water in the most Red State in the Union, Utah; and the students are not top-drawer (they don’t even have to score on the ACT to be admitted, just take the test and they’re in). Yeah, and they are mostly sheltered Mormon kids (some even from polygamist families). If they can read Failed States and get hot-under-their-starched collars by doing so, so can all of us. I guess what I’m basically asking the firedoglakers is this: Chomsky skewers Clinton (the Clinton doctrine) as well as the Bush II doctrine. How bipartisan is the take here? Reading Chomsky, I feel I am seeing my own inner voice about the fraud of democracy in the United States voiced in someone else’ print! I never trusted Clinton, and of course, Bush is just a front for a bunch of fascists. I read the posts here about Big Dog, and just wonder, that’s all… (BTW: you say Chomsky is a terrific speaker and the stuff I’ve read on the Web is that he is a complete bore as a speaker. I’ll trust you on that, and go to listen to him if he ever gets Utah way (Doubtful!–very doubtful).
Wow! Maybe I should check out “Failed States” then. After attempting “Fateful Triangle” I’d just about given up trying to read him. Perhaps he was trying to reach a wider audience with “Failed States.”
I never saw Chomsky in person. I saw him on C-SPAN, probably doing a book tour thing. This was about a year or two ago. He spoke for some time and took questions and I found him absolutely fascinating, not a bore at all.
The man is freakin’ brilliant, well-versed in history and I could see from that lecture that he was not a man who pulled any punches regarding right or left politics.
Your class must be a real eye-opener for those kids. Keep up the provocative work. The best lesson for any student is to question authority, any authority.
SharonW @
154
*Smile* Well, fiction usually is easier to read.
I’m only half kidding. Walden II was what made me realize that Skinner was a complete fraud. Although he structured it as a novel, he obviously intended it as a serious argument for his theories. But every time one of his Simplicio characters challenged his theories his Salviati would say “You don’t have to take my word for it, look!” and point to something in the fictional world Skinner had created as if this proved something about the real world.
Come to think of it, it kind of reminds me of the way some modern politicians argue. And I tend to think of them as frauds too, so at least I’m consistent.
–MarkusQ
Just Asking @ 157
As for me, I never liked Bill as president, I felt he was too much in the pocket of certain corporate interests (and that goes in spades for Hillary).
But all that is relative. I’d take either of them over W. Heck, I’d even take Nixon back if we could get he and W to swap places.
–MarkusQ
*Smile* Well, fiction usually is easier to read.
I’m only half kidding. Walden II was what made me realize that Skinner was a complete fraud. Although he structured it as a novel, he obviously intended it as a serious argument for his theories. But every time one of his Simplicio characters challenged his theories his Salviati would say “You don’t have to take my word for it, look!” and point to something in the fictional world Skinner had created as if this proved something about the real world.
Come to think of it, it kind of reminds me of the way some modern politicians argue. And I tend to think of them as frauds too, so at least I’m consistent.
Well like I said, I read Skinner as a teen, so my memory on the book isn’t great, but I thought the whole concept of Walden was broken down. In other words, such checked behavior went against the norms of real human behavior.
It’s been so many years, 20 (cough) at least, since I read it. I don’t think you can create utopia.
Lutefisk Media has announced a docudrama that has scenes of Chris Wallace screwing an unhappy pig while George Bush jacks off a horse. The White House and Fox News have fired off complaints to Ole OleOleOffsonfree. Laura Bush noted that she thinks children should be reading more books.
Ole says there are a few scenes which may not be exactly documentary, but they sure do fit into the drama category. He has made arrangements with HighSchool Biology of the Americas to distribute his film to highschools. Already complaints have been coming in from Kansas.
Ole said that the interest in his latest..well actually his first video..has caused him to look seriously at the script for another video which has Ann Coulter engaging in sex with a transvestite who looks a lot like Ann Coulter. Actually says Ole, neither of them are Ann, but this is a docudrama and we took a few liberties and let our imagination run just a bit wild. We don’t plan to include the drama of Ann Coulter having an abortion however. There are limits.
Get those letters off to Lutefisk Press. It has been a dry year in parts of Minnesota too.
Anyone but Bush… Personally I blame George Washington for 9/11…
Chomsky’s speaking style reminds me of Malcolm X/Malik El-Shabazz. Malcolm would occasionally change gears, but mostly used a remarkably flat affect. The progressive ear was immediately struck by the richness of the content – factual, oppositional, radical.
Contrast today’s reigning talking heads, Clinton and Blair. They’re distinctive because their consummate style delays for a few moments our realization that it’s just another politician talking. They may be advocating something good, but they’re never really challenging the establishment.
I am surprised the Bush people would use the “Clinton-Years” to run agaisnt. I myself am middle of the road moderate, and I did happen to catch Bill Clinton on Olberman which I admit I am becoming addicted to. All that silly anger about Bill Clinton lying about a BJ evoperated, and I had a severe case the nostalgic blues, and I did not like Clinton too much because of the goo with Monica.
Other then that, i must say, it was wonderful to see him and I wanted to cry out, “Stay, Don’t go, HELP US!:(
I am surprised that the Bush people would use the “Clinton-Years” to run agaisnt the Democrats this year. I myself am a middle of the road “moderate”, I caught Bill Clinton on Olberman (which I admit I am becoming addicted to). All that silly anger about Bill Clinton lying about a BJ evaporated and I had a severe case of the nostalgic blues,I did not like Clinton too much because of the slime factor with Monica.
Other then that, I must say, it was wonderful to see him and I wanted to cry out, “Stay, Don’t go, HELP US!:(
Sorry about that. My edit time expired.
The greedy among us fondly remember the stock market returns of the Clinton era. Since 2000, we have had nothing.
#18 Eli…Clinton had to balance the budget after the Republicans got through stealing and pilferring like they are doing now. In a family situation, if you have overspent, you tighten your belt. If we had a fair media, it would be apparent that Republicans steal and spend and democrats get in office for a short time and clean up the mess. We are a fascist country now Eli. 40% of our budget is spent to pay interest for the Iraq war etc. that was just so important to big oil. Our soldiers are dying and being maimed physically, mentally and spiritually for big oil.Do you honestly think it’s worth it?
Clinton raised tax rates in 1993 and his 8 years in office saw average real GDP growth = 3.7%/year. Bush cut taxes and average real GDP growth for the first 5.5 years = 2.6%/year. But didn’t we see this one a generation ago? Following a 30 year plus period where average growth was 3.5%/year, Reagan cut taxes and the average growth rate for the next 12 years was 3.0%/year. As I ask over at Angrybear, what is it with Bush on this issue – stupidity or mendacity?