
Imagine, if you will, that:
“Five American nurses and a British doctor have been detained and tortured in a Libyan prison since 1999, and that a Libyan prosecutor called at the end of August for their execution… on trumped-up charges of deliberately contaminating more than 400 children with HIV in 1998. Meanwhile, the international community and its leaders sit by, spectators of a farce of a trial, leaving a handful of dedicated volunteer humanitarian lawyers and scientists to try to secure their release.
Implausible? That scenario, with the medics enduring prison conditions reminiscent of the film Midnight Express, is currently playing out in a Tripoli court, except that the nationalities of the medics are different. The nurses are from Bulgaria and the doctor is Palestinian.”
Declan Butler, a senior editor at the science journal Nature, posted that passage on his blog today, in an attempt to rally not only the scientific community, but the blogosphere as well, to bring international attention to this case, as the medics may be sentenced to death this week. Butler is pointing readers to this strongly-worded editorial, and more background on the case can be found here.
But, in a nutshell: Libyan prosecutors are demanding death by firing squad for these five nurses and the doctor on charges that they infected more than 400 children with HIV at a hospital in Benghazi. At least 50 children have died. The six medics were convicted on the same charges in 2004 and sentenced to death then, but Libya’s Supreme Court overturned the convictions and ordered a retrial, which opened in May. The next hearing is scheduled for today, and lawyers for the medics say this will likely be the last hearing before the court announces its verdict. Human rights groups and Bulgaria have accused Libya of concocting the charges to cover up unhygienic practices in the hospital.
Coverage of the medics’ seven-year plight has been fairly light in American media and on the blogs, with only occasional mentions in stories about George Bush making nice with Mouammar Gaddafi. (Although, dear Judy Miller seems to be trying to burnish her rep with this recent piece.) U.N. sanctions were lifted after Libya claimed responsibility for PanAm 103 and agreed to pay $2.7 billion to victims’ families. During all that diplomatic wrangling, which was really about–oh, I don’t know…regaining access to Libya’s oil?–efforts were reportedly made to convince Gaddafi that he should release the five nurses and the doctor. But no deal has ever been reached.
Foreign media, including AlJazeera, are reporting that the nurses and doctor were tortured.
The medics have denied the charges in their first and second trials and have repeatedly testified that they were tortured into making confessions. According to Bulgarian newspaper reports, police officers allegedly forced the nurses to undress before them, put insects on their bodies and set dogs on to them.
The five women were also allegedly kept without water and denied sleep in a tiny cell where they had to urinate in a juice box or a plastic bag. Police officers were also said to have threatened to infect them with Aids, the reports said.
Seems a very worthy cause for stirring up some citizen action on the blogs, much as we did to fight ABC’s "Path to 9/11," and to put the spotlight on the goings-on in Libya this week. False charges, mock trials, torture? They are hitting a lot closer to home these days, in Bush Land. I think Declan Butler and the editors of Nature have it right, and I hope we answer their call:
…What is needed is an immediate and sustained mobilization of international opinion, something which has been badly lacking so far. Bloggers, and the scientific community, can help create pressure on the authorities for the immediate release of the Tripoli six: Christiana Malinova Valcheva, Valia Georgieva Cherveniashka, Nasia Stoitcheva Nenova, Valentina Manolova Siropulo, Snezhana Ivanova Dimitrova and Ashraf Ahmad Jum’a.
And here are some other links Butler has put together:
Lawyers without Borders — (In French — BabelFish translation here)
A 2003 independent scientific report on the matter from 2004 by Luc Montagnier, whose group at the Pasteur Institute in Paris discovered HIV, and Vittorio Colizzi, an AIDS researcher at Rome’s Tor Vergata University, which concluded the innocence of the medics, and that the infections were caused by poor hospital hygiene.
A 2004 letter from Luc Montagnier to Mouammar Gaddafi asking him to pardon the Tripoli six. I am centralizing other bloggers posts on the matter at the Tripoli Six tag on Connotea.
For more information, check out Effect Measure today. And let’s stir it up. We might save six lives.




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Good Morning Jennifer:
I appreciate the information. I had heard several years ago of this situation with the nurses and the doctor and had wrongly assumed that the situation had been resolved in a positive manner because I hadn’t heard anything about it. Silly me. Off to start contacting folks and writing letters.
Me too. I remember reading about this a long time ago, but had no idea they were still imprisoned. Thanks for writing about it.
I just need to say this; The share and enjoy menu bar scares the shit out of me.
There. I have stopped shaking and will attempt, once again, to figure it out.
And don’t say anything mean. Some of you have the gift of ease with the internet and then there are the rest of us.
Florida Mom @ 3
me too! And may I say how glad I am that you are here in person?! Are you feeling better? How about the rest of your family?
Thanks Jen– I have been following this as much as is possible. Your title is spot on! It should have been easy for bushco to intervene, but since they have no moral high ground and have lived and governed lawlessly– not possible. Or maybe they don’t care…
Morin’ Jennifer,
Haven’t even finished your post – just want to say I really respect and admire the work of Declan Butler (French Hemophilia Tragedy, CDC closing off database. . .), and like so much of what I love, am so pleased to see him front paged here at the Lake –
wasn’t even aware he had a blog although now it makes perfect sense
Go Jen !
And if they were American nurses, particularly blond, would we have bombed them yet in order to free them?
Hello to everyone! My wife and I live in Las Vegas and I am an American, she is a Bulgarian. That makes me proudly half Bulgarian.
We have been following this “trial” for years. I am thankful that this is getting the push it finally deserves.
The Bulgarian people were under the yoke of Turkey (they are almost 100% white and were slaves until 1878) and the Byzantines also “owned” them for 200 years. The average monthly income is about $200 and except for food, things cost there as much as they do here.
My point is mostly that they are an almost perfect people who mostly lack the funds to shine the light on this abuse. Please help.
http://ww.sofiaecho.com/articl…..0/catid_66
Today is a cool day in Florida and I have ALL the windows open and the ceiling fans are cranked. It is a bright new day and I don’t feel like my head is being held under water any longer. Thanks for asking.
By the by, my neighbor Susan is a true blue Democrat who is always willing to canvass for/with me as I go through our precint.
She truly is a good person and she meant no harm. And she has cleared the weeds out of my backyard and reclaimed it from the dred air potato vine. Life is good.
omg, and now I see you’ve front paged Effect Measure as well (Medi-Patriots, angie are you here yet ?)
Mornin’ Florida Mom, glad to hear you and your fambly are OK.
Calling Bill Clinton,”Humanitarian.” Maybe a bug in Laura’s ear?
Morning Jen, all,
What next? OK, off to do some work, then back and see what to do about this.
FloridaMom, good to see you! Yipes, we had a case of that here in TO a few years back, squirrels nest in the chmney/furnace vent. Um, didn’t end so well as yours though — that CO is bad *nasty* stuff! Here’s some nice fresh air for you and your family.Catch you guys later, we’re off to Owen Sound for the SweetWater Music Weekend (it’s work for us), hope our host have hi-speed!
HotFlash
GREAT photo. Thanks! Try to have fun at work.
can’t find anything more recent than May 06 – did we in fact appoint an ambassador to our new BFF Libya ?
Jen
A question. I don’t have time to read al the links.
Why did Lybia do this? What’s in it for Lybia?
I feel like I am missing a link in the chain.
Old Sow @ 6
Only if they could prove they are virgin neo-con Christians with well connected family members in the Bush administration. Otherwise Rush would say they are getting what they deserve.
Florida Mom
Heard about your carbon monoxide scare. Glad you are still with us
Florida Mom, try the Spotlight function (just click on “spotlight” in the little box above. I am working my way through TV medical correspondents. I cut and paste my message into an email form, then I can paste it back each time I contact another group of correspondents. You can only send 10 at a time, alas.
Fox News apparently doesn’t have a medical correspondent. Quelle surprise.
LHP
Libya is trying to cover its ass because of its unsanity health conditions in the hospital where these children were being treated. Many have become HIV infected and about 50 have died. Libya doesn’t want to appear to be incapable of taking care of its children so they created these trumped up charges that these visiting medical providers purposfully injected the children with the HIV virus.
looseheadprop @ 16
Thanks. I am actually finally laughing about it.
Susan in Iowa:
I have managed to send out two spotlights! Yeah. Gosh it is fun.
Looks like no ambassador but we do have Gregory L. Berry, Charge d’Affaires ad interim
Here’s the contact page with email addresses– maybe we can do something with this?!?!
http://libya.usembassy.gov/contact.html
If the Cheney Administration gets its way on the torture and trial laws, we won’t have to imagine. It will be Americans someday soon.
Angie,
thanks!
lhp,
many believe Libyans are scapegoating these folks to cover up unhygenic treatment conditions in Libya
btw,
maybe post should be titled
And If They Were Christian American Nurses
have spotlighted to NYT, Globe, WaPo, & WSJ
Angie thanks.
What an interesting read your link is.
cbl @ 22
Not doubting you,but that seems very inefficient and likely to backfire. If children kept getting sick after these folks were incarcerated, the accusations would backfire.
I am still confused by this
Cleary this is a subject I know nothing about. This is the very first I have heard of this.
Air potato vine……is that the vine with the orange balls growing on it?
Florida Mom @ 3
You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of!!!
I have 25 plus years in computer tech stuff, and I still have no clue what the “Share and Enjoy menu bar” is supposed to do.
I get the Spotlight function just fine (and use it quite often), so it ain’t that I’m losing it here, but that Share and Enjoy thingie just blows right past me.
So Florida Mom, share a giggle with me instead of shaking, ’cause there’s tech stuff that even the techies can’t figure out. *g*
I’m in the same club as you both wrt the share & enjoy. I have no idea what it’s for. I was going to ask my son for help but I bother him enough when I can’t get a signal to get online. So, I make believe it isn’t there.
And not to forget my manners, thanks for a fine post Jennifer!
Great spotlight story Jennifer. Although I live in America, a country with a fair and balanced wild-eyed leftist press, I have never heard of this before. Thanks!
ccmask @ 28
That’s what us techies do too! LOL!
Hmmm…it seems there is a cleanup needed in aisle 31.
cbl @
13
angie @
20
Berry is a career diplomat (thank goodness), whose been posted in Libya since June 2004. According to his brief State Dept bio,
IOW, he’s been around hot spots before. Let’s hope we can help him out on this one.
lhp,
allow me a gross generalization -
it’s Libya, quite likely they’d just move the figure up from 400 children injected to whatever as patients continue to die – and most folks wouldn’t be the wiser as the Libyan govt. is the only one doin’ the talkin’
everyone – don’t forget Christian Science Monitor in the Spotlight – if nothing else, TradMed will pick up from them even if they ignore us unwashed blog urchins
also – AMA
Jama
The Lancet
New England Journal of Medicine
CCMask:
The vine actually grows something that looks and smells like a potato. It may have orange flowers on it initally that grow into the false potato.
Mad Dog:
Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.
cbl:
Great suggestions. I am on it and then I am off to work. Have a great day everyone. See ya later on -
OT
Listen to this kick-ass interview with Bill Clinton on the torture issue this am on NPR:
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..Id=6113357
I heard that interview this morning lectriclady and it was great! He is so right on wrt this topic. He was president for 8 years and should know that it very very very rarely helps–Bush just wants a nice blanket so he can suck his thumb and sleep peacefully at night–it’s all about him, don’t you know!
o/t
ccmask,
hope you’re ok – caught your very touching comment about your mama last night – the line about waking up with a permanent was 707 – take care of yourself !
OT– MSNBC covering Macaca and Buchanan is pretty much casting aspersions on Allen and his story.
yippee!!!!!!! GO WEBB!
The WaPo had a story yesterday highlighting Laura Bush’s growing visibility on humanitarian issues, including AIDS work in Africa. From the WaPo:
McBride is Anita McBride, Laura’s chief of staff.
Laura’s been hitting the campaign trail as everyone’s favorite republican surrogate, but she also spoke yesterday at Clinton’s Global Initiative NYC conference. Perhaps a few emails to Laura, via McBride, might be in order.
angie – my favorite part of the MSRNC/Allen story – the lead in
“once considered a frontrunner . . .”
bwaaaaahaaahaaa!
The WaPo had a story yesterday highlighting Laura Bush’s growing visibility on humanitarian issues, including AIDS work in Africa.
snip
Sounds like a boondoggle to me.
***
Thanks cbl. You have no idea how long a week can be. That was just a brief snippet–I could expand, believe me! :)
Yep, cbl– that, and the video of him on the horsey.
If you’re interested, here’s a link to the RTD article this morning wherein the Allen camp is calling the Webb camp anti semitic. MSNBC also said that Norm Coleman spoke with Allen and said “welcome to the tribe”. Yesterday Allen said he had eaten a ham sandwich for lunch and his momma made great pork chops. This is so bizarre to watch the Allen gang continuously shoot themselves in the face.
btw, the RTD does not get the blogger’s name right, it is Feld not Fulk.
http://timesdispatch.com/servl…..9190734976
Florida Mom @
18
Ahh.. The good old scapegoat maneuver. So typical of authoritarian regimes. Its what the right has been doing to us for years. After all, one of their favorite themes is that liberalism is an infection that is destroying American culture.
also on Spotlight -
all CNN Medical (Hello Dr Gupta!), State Department, and their Int’l Correspondents – think they’re still doing that Int’l Hour
About Share and Enjoy – Trying thinking about it as as way of organizing, categorizing and sharing your list of bookmarks. The system uses a different approach to tags that is supposed to make it easier to seach for common interests. All those icons up there are links to many different web sites that have such a service.
Hope this helps!
I sent this to the American embassy.
Dear Sir or Madam:
I lived in Tripoli from 1978-1981 while employed at the Oil Companies School. I am very concerned about the plight of the Bulgarian nurses and Palestinian Dr.
Set to be executed on trumped up charges. As an ex-pat I used to have to use the British Embassy because We Americans pulled out first and stayed away for the next 25 years. Now that we have normalized relations I would think that we Americans could and should exert some humanitarian leverage against these acts. I beg of you to get involved in a significant manner.
Sincerely,
Jim Clausen
Bit slow here (naturally), but did I get that right? Now Allen is suddenly Jewish, he can call Webb anti-semitic?
Tortoise @ 49
yep. here’s this morning’s diary at kos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/21/8442/03933
Oh and here’s a wapo article:
RICHMOND, Sept. 20 — Henrietta “Etty” Allen said Wednesday that she concealed her upbringing as a Jew in North Africa from her children, including Sen. George Allen (R-Va.), until a conversation across the dining room table in late August.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..tml?sub=AR
smell the desperation…
Argh. Where’s the “edit” gone?
Speaking of interviews and hopefully not too intrusive on this very focused and very important subject, two guests on Imus this morning brought me to the belief that basic order and government have totally broken down in America.
Not just an issue like this kangaroo court — and how can the charge d’affaire temp from BushCoRUs have any cred to lobby the Libyan gov’t at all, given Bush’s total decimation of law and order under his watch.
Yesterday I commented about Begala’s noting that prosecutions of corps hiring illegals is down 90%. Today, on Imus, Kinky Friedman talked about the total breakdown of order in Houston and along the border. [And hey, if MSNBC actually did videoclips from this show, you’d see that Kinky is shining with the inner light of noble cause. No clown he.] Also, the breakdown of the Texas education system and social services safety nets.
And Chris Matthews was hot on the media for totally surrendering their responsibilities in the run-up to Iraq. His unbleeped “this bullshit war” summed it up. And he vented about the media ignoring what’s going on in Iraq right now. Which I totally agree with–the Rove p.r. campaign machine has co-opted the media for yet another election.
Because to not report on Iraq reality. To not report on the serious social/educational/justice issues that should be driving this election instead of the bread and circuses crap is a de facto bias for Bush and the status quo.
This country has broken down. Greed and selfishness and power and access are the driving forces. And the voices like Matthews and Kinky Friedman and Olbermann and the progressive blogs and the grassroots door knockers cannot give an inch, because this year it really matters. 2008 will be too late.
It seems to me that this would be a great issue for a Democratic senator to bring to the floor — in the form, perhaps, of a sense of the Senate resolution condemning Libya for using evidence obtained by inhumane and degrading treatment and threats of violence.
The resolution should also commend Bulgaria for its loyalty to the United States as a member of the Multi-National Division deployed with the Coalition Ground Forces in Iraq, and calling on the Bush Administration to intervene to protect the rights of our allies’ citizens, and all persons treated in such flagrant violation of common due process and international law.
meta @ 48
Hmmm…still don’t make much useful sense to me, but what do I know? *g*
Bush already asked for the release of the nurses back in October and was told no.
http://iafrica.com/news/worldnews/504472.htm
How can we, the United States, expect the world to listen to us when we’ve abandoned the moral high ground with our treatment of suspected terrorists, allegations of widespread use of torture, and refusal to engage in due process and Geneva conventions?
The Bush/Cheney administration has completely corrupted the esteem in which the US was previously held. Our standing as a nation has been eroded to the point that we have lost the right to address other nation’s human rights violations. The damage this administration has caused us over the last six years will take decades to overcome, if ever.
I thought 12 years of Reagan/Bush Sr. idiocy was bad, but that was a party compared to what Junior is currently subjecting us and the world to.
And yeah, we’d be bombing the shit outta Libya if those nurses were American. No doubt about that.
Hopefully I can listen to the Clinton interview later today.
me to me – if you are around; I see where prostratedragon did an unbelievable job tracking down cites and authority for some of my ramble you asked about yesterday. (pd – thank you so much!)
cites for Dilawar – 1
sources for Khaled el-Masri -3
sources for Italian kidnapping & indictments re Abu Omar
ow! That’s got to hurt George Allen, no?
CT Bob @ 57
There, you’ve said it in a nutshell. Couldn’t agree with you more.
actually, Califlander,
let’s get a twofer out of it – let’s have the Dems call out the good senators McCain, Warner, & Graham on this – either they’d have to actually do something or risk exposing the Kabuki for what it is
Hi Jane, I am venturing out from Flavia Colgan’s Citizen Hunter community to say hello to this one. Hi! How did I find out about it? Saw you on TV last night on the rare occasion it is on and clicked the link Flavia has for us. You were absolutely clear and concise. Great job!
Now about this piece. The point is clear, moral relativism is alive and well. How often does a perspective change only because the names have changed? Too often. “Thank you” to Jennifer Nix for illustrating this problem and to you Ms Hamsher and the leaders of the blogging community for amplifying what normal folks think.
“First a thought, then a word, then a step, I move towards paradise”. -Z
angie @ 56
Yes, but I just can’t imagine Bush ever saying, “Oh well, I tried.”
On the other hand, does Libya’s answer that mean we’re going to invade Libya? Isn’t that the standard operating procedure for countries that say “no” to BushCo?
CT Bob @ 56
The Clinton years weren’t all that good for civil liberties. The two things that comes to mind are the signing away of fourth admendment rights for people in public housing in Detroit and the whole clipper chip fiasco. I’m still angry at Gore for taking such a boneheaded position. Mr.Technology indeed.
CT Bob @
57
Amen to all that, Bob. My signals are seriously crossed here…there’s so much torture we’re being de-sensitized to it. Whenever I’ve brought our government’s heinous torture crimes with friends, they react like I reached into my pocket and set roadkill on the table. No ability to talk about it, deep levels of shame and denial.
We all know the blowback is coming, and dread it, and there’s little emotional room for medical workers in Libya. American missionaries and nuns are going to be tortured and killed soon enough, and what little emotional cultural energy we have left, I mean aside from the predictably insane religious outrage, will be devoted to them.
OT:
Everytime I hear “Share and Enjoy” I hear the song from the BBC version of Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy….
“Share and Enjoy” is the slogan of the complaints division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation. In the radio version, this phrase had its own song (sung in Fit the Ninth), which was sung by a choir of robots during “special occasions”. However, the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation tends to produce inherently faulty goods, which makes the slogan ironic since few people would share or enjoy a product that does not function properly. Among the design flaws is the choir of robots that sings the song: they sing a flattened fifth out of tune with the accompaniment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N….._and_Enjoy
US widow deported over Nazi past
An elderly German woman who kept secret her role as a Nazi concentration camp guard for more than 60 years has been deported from the US, it has emerged.
Elfriede Rinkel, who was married to a Jewish man, was described as a “nice, sweet lady” by those who knew her.
Mrs Rinkel, 84, never revealed the grim details of her past during the 47 years she lived in San Francisco.
But earlier this month US officials uncovered her role as a guard during WWII, and deported her back to Germany.
Mrs Rinkel’s husband Fred was a German Jew who arrived in the US after escaping the Holocaust. He died in 2004, never learning of his wife’s secret.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor…..366680.stm
For pity’s sake, if Shrubya can’t get onto it again, how about Laura Bush?
I looked all over Amnesty Int’l and the last time they remarked upon the situation was May 2004. Hrmph.
Also, back in 1999 when this started, there were 9 Libyans accused along with the 6 expats. I wonder whatever happened to them?
Bush may have “tried” but he has no credibility when it comes to diplomacy or human rights issues.
Joe Duran @ 62
Welcome to FDL, Joe. Don’t be a stranger.
Here’s another item in the news that is buried and needs some light shed on it. How is it that the right-wing fundamentalist “Christian” organizations can organize and take control of the Repuglican party and Dr Dobson can state the future of our nation depends on re-electing Repuglicans?
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06264/723748-53.stm
And the IRS is investigating a Presbyterian church in California for a sermon against war?! Is the IRA overlooking taxes due from Republicans, too?
Just wrote to Human Rights Watch………back to work……
dru-
dunno if that’s what you are talking about…
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=…..ya2006.pdf hrw libya nurses released&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7
dwi @ 71
Bilmon has a (typically) good post on the subject. http://billmon.org/archives/002742.html
For anyone who saw Abu Gonzales responding to the Arar case, and puzzled over the nonsense of his statement, the NYT has an article with something of an explanation. Here is a snip:
Jennifer’s piece above highlights our inability to step into horrific situations around the globe when we are so severely compromised by criminals such as this.
Thank you Jennifer for your heart-rending piece and your stellar journalism. I have heard this story on and off in the MSM but didn’t know of this latest development. Thanks.
Oh, brother…this is exactly why the torture issue is so much bigger than just the terrorists, and why I am so tired of hearing people say, “Well, the terrorists don’t care about human life, so why should they get a break from us if we capture them?”
Well, this situation is why. So that when other countries torture those in their custody, we can exert the moral authority that comes from having policies that reject torture as an option for those who come into our custody. It could not be clearer than that.
We cannot pick and choose which people should be able to be tortured and which people should not, and the fact that we apparently are making those choices takes away all of our credibility on human rights issues in general, and gives us no standing to protest the treatment policies in other countries.
Why is that concept so hard for people to understand?
I expect David Broder will blow this story wide open.
Thank you, Jennifer,
I have just been lurking on FDL for the past week as I hve family visiting me
all the way from Penn.
Be sure however, I did not miss Jane on KO last night.
I admire all of you on FLD.
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 76
Hope–your Sunday post sits right with me..impending sense of doom and all…..thanks for taking the time to write it out so carefully…and yes, it’s the loss of free & fair elections plus….my fill-in-the-blank is global warming first and then…
meta @
75
There’s a good article in Vanity Fair this month (Michael Wolff?) where he notes that the Angela Merkel recoil from Bush is a visual metaphor for the way the world regards the US right now.
It wasn’t this way six years ago. These assholes have hamstrung us in the blink of an eye.
As Bush was cutting his deals with Libya to let them off of leper island, he could have gotten all kinds of movement on issues like this one He just didn’t.
*********
Has Hersh ever said anything more about the abuse of children at Abu Ghraib? I’ve discounted the report some bc there seemed so little other confirmation, but having just about finished The Looming Tower and seen all the initial military mindset in Iraq/Afghansitan (that the only way to handle anyone in the ME was force and humiliation) and the “no rules” push from the Bush administration, I have to wonder.
Wright’s book talks about our friends in Egypt, whose intel from al-Libi helped get us all that nifty reliable information, and one of their uses of children. They gave the 13 yo son of a Zawahiri associate drugs, sodomized him, took pictures, terrified him with exposure, then got him to hand over another child of another member of al-Qaeda, did the same to that child, then used the boys as spies bc they were so afraid of the exposure. They also used them to try to plant a bomb to assassinate Zawahiri and left them to be killed by Zawahiri when discovered.
I can’t believe we’ve sunk this low – but anymore I can’t find one reason to believe that the Bush admin and highest levels of military and DOJ wouldn’t go along with doing something like this.
Just to keep in mind – the “well, we can’t use torture evidence” rationale is already under attack, not just with the Bush admin legislation for military tribunals, but right here in civil courts in the USA. Salah and Padilla, and torture is winning out so far. Our Federal Justice Dept is fighting for, and winning, the battle to use torture based statements.
Clinton and Regan and first Bush and even Nixon – all have done bad things, but the blatant public embrace of torture and institutionalizing it as a part of our military and justice systems by this administration with such lapdog acquiesence all throughout DOJ and DOD and Congress goes beyond anything in the past.
I just contacted Amnesty International and spoke with a rep who is willing to find out what they are doing on this front. She asked me not to post her email and would write me back with information to post to everyone about direct actions that AI will encourage. She stated that AI deletes bulk emails as they do not respond to the quantity of requests, but to the actual case themselves. She stated that she will forward my email to the person who is handling these matters and will let me know ASAP what I and the rest of us can do to help….so we will see…
meta @75 – that shows what comes of no one being willing to impeach an AG who has lied and deceived plenty of times already. Hook him and Hayden up to a lie detector at the same time and you’ll cause a cascading grid failure across the eastcoast
I’m sure Gonzales has never even thought about the Arar case – yeah, right. Where Larry Thompson signed off on docs (ex-Dep AG and big supporter of Haynes the General Counsel and Torture Approver for DOD in his bid for FOurth Circuit appointment) and was, along with Ashcroft, an individually named defendant, and Comey (another Haynes supporter) filed the affidavits for DOJ on behalf of recused Ashcroft?
Yeah – I’m sure Arar, which is a TORTURE CASE involving complaints against or involvement by the former AG and two former second in commands at DOJ, is one where the details just tend to escape him
Unlike the torture victims he and DOJ have authorized and covered up for years.
Thanks also, Jane, for turning our eye toward the GQ article on Shorty. It’s all of a piece in my mind. Just the hollowness of what our political system has become when it falls into the hands of people who are so incredibly co-opted and beholden and corrupt, stooping to fire-breathing war crimes and purchasing audiences and whining and panty drawer sniffing and on and on. My friends across the globe are in total fear of what this country is about to do next.
Did anyone catch Jessica Matthews on Chas Rose a couple nights ago? She spoke about the build-up on Iran, similar to her NYT piece of last March. She would be a good one to have here, maybe as an “article salon.”
Something’s happening on the Golden Gate Bridge. I think there are some war protestors trying to unfurl a banner.
new thread
Mary @ 84
Mary, his suit against the United States of America has been dismissed, but is on appeal. Do you see any way?
Mary @
82
At Balkinization, Marty Lederman has a great post this morning. It gives summary reviews of various discussions of Bush’s military-commissions effort. The most important part, however, was a follow-on comment:
If Bush asked and they said no (as per angie @ 56), the problem is, since he didn’t push it, they won’t see any reason to care.
And don’t forget the doctor is Palestinian. How would it look for the Neocons to go about freeing a Palestinian doctor? They seem to be siding with the most conservative sectors of Israel’s Jewish population, so freeing the good doctor might be considered a step back in that regard.
As long as these authoritarian regimes have something we want (oil), they will see no reason to stop doing business as usual. All the more reason to switch to an alternative fuel; then, when we say we want some humanitarian act performed, we can actually mean it.
Rambling on a bit, that’s one reason why I hope the alternative fuel technologies become open source but fast. If one company or a group of companies hold international patents on technologies that could defuse international hotspots, then that’s a failure of the patent system to understand the desparate needs for this technology to be created and disseminated as rapidly as possible.
EPU’d, but I’m ranting anyway . . .
Jane Hamsher @
81
No, Jane – it took more than the blink of an eye. It took a poke in an eye, a leash from a dog, a pair of panties from a woman, a board strapped to a body, thermostats turned way way down, buckets of cold cold water, loud noises and lights for days and nights on end, rotating teams of interrogators asking non-stop questions without permitting sleep, threats (or worse) to family members of detainees, . . .
It took plane flights for extraordinary renditions, the staffing of secret prisons, the creation of military tribunals with creative rules of evidence and procedure, the screwing over of the Geneva Convention, the beating down of the JAG Corps members who protested, the efforts to conceal all this from oversight committees of the House and Senate, the creation of novel legal theories to make it all seem kosher, . . .
It didn’t take them the blink of an eye to hamstring us – it took years of planning and preparation, with malice aforethought. That’s why it’s going to take us years and years, with lots of planning and preparation to repair the damage.
But Molly Ivins’ First Rule of Holes applies: when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
November, November, November. That’s when we’ve got to force the administration to put the shovels down.
well said, peterr
Jane’s reference above is not available online, but here’s the byline:
“POX AMERICANA How did the U.S. go from the bull market of Clintonian cool to Bush-Cheney’s menacing empire? Michael Wolff fingers the neocons, Tony Blair, and delusional yuppies who still think they’re part of the solution.”
Great rant, Peterr. Thank you for your outrage.
Does anyone have enough hard information about this to help determine independently, whether they are in fact guilty?
On what evidence (i mean physical evidence) are these charges based, apart from the 50 dead children?
Finally, what if….the charges are true?
I believe the underlying assumption of your piece is that the charges are false. But …based on everything I have read about this case, I really can’t tell.
Anyone with cogent information ….I would appreciate a link. Thanks.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 78
As usual, I suppose.
Hello
Re evidence
On my original blog post on this, I’ve added links to the external scientific report by two leading AIDS scientists discussing the evidence, and other material. This should help.
http://declanbutler.info/blog/?p=59
My news story in Nature also goes into this in more detail.
Best
Declan
Thanks Declan….do you have any information (I was unable to find it) about what evidence was presented in court?
This seems bizzare to me…any clues on the motivations for the government to persecute these people?
Color me baffled
marblex @ 94
I spent 4 hours on this last night, once I was made aware of Declan Butler’s request to the blogs. I’ve put in many links, from different sources, so you should be able to get an fairly accurate view of what’s happened. Obviously, without being there in the courtroom, and spending time with the evidence against these people, it’s very hard to know for certain. But, from what I read last night, the experts who have looked at everything, believe these six people to be innocent of the charges. And, within the last week, apparently it’s become clear that Gaddafi may be after money from the int’l community, it order to make this go away.
I called Senator Durbin’s office, and spoke with one of his staffers, who hadn’t heard of the issue, was shocked they’d been in jail since 1999, and asked whether or not this had been discussed in one of those CIA country reports that are public. He said he’d look into it and get back to me.
Not to defend Libya or what they are doing to these people, but the U.S. is doing far worse to far more people. Americans have no moral high ground to work with anymore and it is hypocritical to criticize the actions of other countries when the U.S. is doing what it’s doing.
steve ex-expat @ 101
I agree that we are doing worse to far more people, but that is the U.S. government and not you and me, so to speak. We can still fight to save the lives of these six people. We can stand for what’s right and fight torture abroad, as well as torture done by our government. I think it’s extremely important for the world community to know that while George Bush may support torture, Americans–and most certainly progressives–do NOT. It’s not hypocritical to stand for justice. Ever.
steve ex-expat @ 101
Every citizen of the world who does NOT torture and does not support torture possesses the moral high ground to protest and rattle cages. I will not let embarrassment at the current administration’s actions allow me to be embarrassed about my entire country and what I believe it stands for. We should just sit on our hands until voters overturn a current president? No way.
I suppose that the Libyan prosecutor and judges are too stupid to realize that this incident will discourage foreign doctors and nurses from volunteering to assist their sick people. If that’s what they really want, so be it. But they should be careful of what they want–it might come back to bite them.