
Looking at the civil war in Iraq, it’s hard to imagine what would (will) happen if (when) George W. Bush turns his talents on Iran. If we think we’ve got problems now — and we do — going into Iran would make the bombs bursting in Baghdad seem like firecrackers at a football game.
Sam Gardiner has put together a fascinating and chilling report talking about what will happen once Bush and the Republicans turn their military sights and lack of planning on Iran. According to his official bio, Gardiner is a "retired U.S. Air Force colonel who has taught strategy and military operations at the National War College, Air War College, and Naval War College". He also did some war gaming on Iran, which James Fallows covered for the Atlantic Monthly.
In a new report for the Century Foundation, Gardiner lays out what’s going to happen and how it will unfold, which I outline in the rest of this post. No, that’s not exactly right, because it’s already unfolding. But it’s not like Iraq, with Wolfowitz and Perle filling Georgie’s little head full of delusions of being greeted as the liberator of Iraq. This time the delusions are straight from Dubya.
…And on top of all of those pressures–pressure from Israel, pressure from those worried about a nuclear Iran, Iran in Iraq, and Iran in the war on terrorism–is another decisive piece of the puzzle: President George W. Bush. The argument takes several forms: the president is said to see himself as being like Winston Churchill, and to believe that the world will only appreciate him after he leaves office; he talks about the Middle East in messianic terms; he is said to have told those close to him that he has got to attack Iran because even if a Republican succeeds him in the White House, he will not have the same freedom of action that Bush enjoys. Most recently, someone high in the administration told a reporter that the president believes that he is the only one who can "do the right thing" with respect to Iran. One thing is clear: a major source of the pressure for a military strike emanates from the very man who will ultimately make the decision over whether to authorize such a strike–the president. And these various accounts of his motivations and rationales have in common that the president will not allow does-not-make-sense arguments to stand in the way of a good idea.
The End of the "Summer of Diplomacy" – Assessing Military Options on Iran (pdf), by Sam Gardiner, Colonel, USAF (Ret.) (h/t)
The first important tactic, according to Gardiner, is to stay "below the CNN Line". It was the advice given to the Air Component Commander, General Mike Mosley, during the classified secret air strikes that took place in Iraq in July 2002. You remember, it was right after Bush came home from Europe to say, "I have no war plans on my desk."
As for what happens when we decide to go above the CNN line, it starts with sanctions. But we all know these won’t work, so the next step will be obvious and meant to look as if the Bush administration tried their best to follow a diplomatic path. When sanctions don’t work, air strikes are to follow. Here are the targets, as Gardiner sees them: nuclear facilities; military air bases; air defense command and control; terrorist training camps; chemical facilities; medium-range ballistic missiles; 23rd Command Division; Gulf-threatening assets: submarines, anti-ship missiles, naval ships, small boats. He goes on talking about follow-on strikes.
Oh, and it will be an American operation. But you likely already figured that one out.
As Gardiner stipulates, not even the experts know how Iran will react. But you can sure make educated guesses at some of the consequences of Bush striking Iran. Gardiner does just that and none of it’s good, because there are no good military options on this one.
The Iranians would likely look to target Israel as a response to a U.S. strike, using Hezbollah as the primary vehicle for retaliation. …
Moqtada al-Sadr has said publicly that if the United States were to attack Iran, he would target U.S. forces in Iraq.
Iran could channel more individuals and weapons into Iraq. …
Moqtada al-Sadr controls the large Facilities Protection Service forces in Iraq. Some estimates put this force as large as 140,000. … read on …
There is a lot at stake right now, but the trouble is, according to Gardiner, the game has already begun. I wonder how many people in Congress know?



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‘mornin’, Taylor!
Fitz!
I love doing that
Couldn’t stand the thought of polluting “0″ with a comment on Matalin this morning on Imus.
They are in full court press, aren’t they?
Hmmm, she mentions talking to folks in NH and CT…one wonders if she’s working on J-Lie’s campaign….
And the fact that Chee-knee shot an old guy in the face? Hey, that’s not a political event… yeah, right. Tell it to Ken-the-Perv Starr.
She’s spewin’ the kool-aid…. but ol’ Imus is pushing her hot buttons hard.
When Bush attacks Iran who will hold him accountable? Who has the power to stop him?
Bush needs to be dragged out of the WH in leg irons.
and very soon…
Mornin’ Taylor.
Mornin” Firepups.
OT but I have to ru n and wanted to get this out there.
Evidently Peter King, my Congressman has GUTTED money that ws meant to fuffill a 9-11 Commission recommendation that first responers have radios that can actually allow them to talk to each other.
Sheesh!
Read it and weep. In particular New Yorkers should be out with tourcges and pitchforks.
King’s claim to fame is that he was made head of the Homeland Security Cimmittee to make the Big Apple safe.
If I were the loved one of a firefighter or police officer, or a Union Official representing any first responder, I would be flexing my considerble muscle in Kings’s direction.
And Yes, I mean you, Gary Del Robbia.
Read it and weep
http://kingwatch.blogspot.com/…..first.html
last night Rayne mentioned that the Warner, McCain, Graham bill for the Geneva Conventions does NOT prohibit torture of children. I know there were kids kept in Gitmo and it seems to me that Sy Hersh saw a video of Abu Gharib with a young boy being raped in order to get his father to talk… he said the sound of it was beyond horrible.
I barely can get my mind around the fact that we are torturing adults, torturing kids is almost unthinkable…
time to hit the phones again…
Will you put a link up so that people who visit your site and want to can easily write a note to congress in support of The Brad Blog Uprising’s push to get an emergency paper ballot mandate? I used The Nations Mail System which I have bookmarked, but I can’t figure out a way to post a link to it.
LET AMERICA VOTE ACT
(EMERGENCY PAPER BALLOT MANDATE OF 2006)
Emergency paper ballots shall be made available at every voting jurisdiction in the United States during the November 7th, 2006 General Election. These paper ballots shall be available in sufficient numbers for optional use by voters who prefer to use them, and by all voters in the event of voting machine failure or unavailability. These paper ballots are not to be provisional ballots, but regular paper ballots that shall be counted immediately upon the close of polls on election night along with all other votes cast by properly registered voters.
Sometimes I wish Iran & Iran were located where Canada is so that Bush would be too scared to attack. It’s so easy for him since the repurcussions are on the other side of the world. He’s like most Americans…lay down a map of the world on Election Day and dare most voters to circle Iraq with a highlighter. I really don’t think the percentage of those circling the correct country would be higher than 20%.
I wonder the same thing, Mark W.
Why can’t he be stopped before he goes too far?
When will the people of his Administration or the Generals simply say,”No. It’s a f*cking horrible idea.”
*sigh*
I really hate GWB.
I don’t really see how we stop this. It’s not like we can urge our senators to vote against the Iran War Authorization. There isn’t going to be one.
We could tell our reps in Congress that if Bush attacks Iran w/o a Congressional war authorization, we expect them to impeach him. For all the good that will do.
What preventative, pro-active things can we do?
Get it above the CNN line, somehow?
According to Ben Ferencz, the greatest crime against humanity is starting a war of aggression.
GQ article on Lamont/Lieberman is up, well worth a look.
http://men.style.com/gq/featur…..ntent_5003
What if?
1. the U.S. will achieve total pariah status. Not even Tony Blair will have anything to do with us.
2. The Arab oil embargo of the 1970s will look like a day at the beach.
3. The U.S. economy will completely crash.
I never thought I’d fantasize for a military coup in this country, but yes, whp can stop Bush? He’s a madman.
4. It will be open season on U.S. military and diplomatic personnel abroad.
Did anyone see Turley on K.O last night?? He implied that several people would be coming forward in the next few days/weeks that they were tortured by “waterboarding”. He suggested that Bush signed off to allow certain military staff to be trained as “tortureres” and that this is illegal in every nation in the U.N. He sounded as if Bush could in fact be brought up on charges of war crimes. I know he has his own agenda representing those detainees who have suffered at the U.S hands but wondering is there any legal UMPHHH!! to this. Turley sounded as if the U.S would have to do something to sanction Bush or risk looking like terrorist ourselves. (for shame). Is this just one more hope that we could get this guy out of office before he does anymore damage or could there be something to this???
I have a button that I wear pretty much every day now.
It says:
I Never Thought I’d Miss Nixon
Is it at all possible that the senior officers in the military would not execute an order to attack another country after seeing first hand the mess that has become Iraq?? With the ‘Messiahs’ approval rating in the dumper and the Republican infighting isn’t there hope that a large majority of officers would just say “screw this” and hold there ground? The man (w/ Rumsfeld help of course) has destroyed the military and I just get the feeling that the career guys in the ranks despise the commander in chief! I think if they did disobey an order they would also have the approval of citizens in our country being we understand what this would do to our already shaky econonmy (not to mention the number of lives saved on the ground.)
katie Jensen @ 17
Maybe get these people in front of the Senate as they’re “debating” the torture bill?
Since the whole world has been declared a terror zone, is this all accomplished under the AUMF? Are there no checks or balances on this? Or do we have the Republican rubber-stamps as our last hope? Make no mistake, there is a rush going on. The MSM has been pounding the meme into our brains for several weeks now, so the shock of it has worn off and the American people are now ready for the second stage of propaganda, that of rallying round our President.
Hi. I’m a longtime lurker who explodes on occasion, then re-disappears. Just a thought on “our nation wants peace” from Bush’s UN appearance: it reminds me of the quote on the Emperor Justinian (?)(and also used in Sandburg’s “The People, Yes”): He made a desert and called it peace.
… the president is said to see himself as being like Winston Churchill, and to believe that the world will only appreciate him after he leaves office; he talks about the Middle East in messianic terms…
What bebimbob said @ 15 — he’s nuts. Here’s something I wrote in June 2003:
The only way Dubya could talk himself out of cowering in the corner after 9/11 was to convince himself that he was God’s chosen instrument against terrorism. He’s nuts.
Iran will close the Strait of Hormuz, the US will become a pariah overnight.
The US will suffer one or more attacks (not spectacular, but unnerving), and the Bill of Rights will go into the shitcan. Martial Law will be declared, elections postponed, and Preznit Messianic Visions designated by acclamation as King George I by the remainder of the republican congress, before it dissolves itself out of respect for the Throne and to avoid arrest.
Iran will buy the Nukes it can’t build, and deliver one to a major US city, prompting a retaliation which will be like using an elephant gun to kill a mosquito. Iran will be radioactive and dead. Islam will be on fire, and the crusades will look like good times forgotten.
Preznit Rapture will happily go on knowing that on the day of the rapture, he’ll be given his place at the right hand of God. Unfortunately for him, she’ll be asian, lesbian and pissed (thanks for the imagery sort-of, Kevin Smith).
Now back to your regularly scheduled fear.
swopa – my feeling is shrubya is so scared, he needs all the power and might of the U.S. military to protect him…
he scares himself with all the talk of terror (shows us just how frightened he’s become)
I happened to flip over to CSPAN and at the top of the page it looked like they were voting for
“Religious Freedom For Iran”
Did anyone else see this??
What the hell was that?
The scorched earth president is a man of peace. That is one of the most depressing aspects of his current lecture circuit. When we see the images from Iraq everyday, the constant death and destruction, contrasted with his fairy tale gloss about peace and democracy, it is an outrage.
Swopa @ 24
Last night, I mean, around the time Keith was on!
OldCoastie @
5
Hear. Hear.
Jo Fish @ 25
Gosh, you make Bush sound just like a religious terrorist crusader.
lina @ 14
4. There will be chaos in the streets of America.
If you missed Terry Gross interview with Pastor John Hagee, you should give it a listen. In the context of Rice’s “birth pangs” characterization Gardiner’s characterization of Bush’s foreign policy as “Messianic”, it is chilling.
Speaking of chilling (as in using the IRS to attack liberal churches in an election season because they are “political”), don’t forget how explicitly political the winger churches are.
Swopa, it may be time to repost that. It is chilling.
drinksforall @ 19
Excellent discussion of this possibility here .
OldCoastie @
7
John Yoo gave a glimpse of White House thinking on that matter in following exchange that occurred in a debate in Chicago with Professor Doug Cassel of Notre Dame:
Some legal scholars accuse progressives of “demonizing” and “villifying” Professor Yoo. But in 1950, the Nuremberg Tribunal defined Crimes against Peace as:
Certainly Yoo’s guilt is no greater than that of say Joseph Goebbels, but the Nuremberg Tribunal never got to rule on Goebbels’s guilt.
Note to the FDL Webmaster:
I use the Mozilla Firefox browser, and live links do not show up in a different color unless the cursor happens to pass over them. It sure would be helpful to readers if you could make the change in the FDL blog scripts that would have them show all the time. I know it can be done because it’s an inherrent feature of the theme I use on the Word Press blog I run. I must have spent a full minute or more trying to find a live link for Gardiner’s report. God only knows how many links I would have found informative in the past that I didn’t know existed because they were invisible.
Speaking of maps, every American should be able to complete this. Especially those with loved ones in the region.
http://www.rethinkingschools.o…..pgame.html
[Dear Mods: clean up in aisle 36 - thank you.]
Shout-out and thanks to all FirePups, appreciate your being there last night. Tests came back fine, probably a skeletal problem causing the pleuritic pain, spouse released and now home.
Hope that Mrs. Redshift will have similarly fine test results today.
George Orwell witnessed the horrors of the totalitarianism of Hitler and Stalin, and anticipated their high-tech successor, Big Brother, who would protect the people of Oceania. Karl Rove read 1984 and saw the possibilities, not a horror story but a vision to be implemented: universal surveillance, a hated enemy, and Room 101 for those who failed to cooperate in their own protection.
Jo Fish @
24
and maybe Sharkbabe can stand in for St. Peter…….
Rayne @ 39
super, Rayne. i’ll bet the both of you sleep well tonight…
Taylor:
You always have such a profound insight into the dangers arising in the ME. What strikes me as most dangerous in all of this is Bush’s delusion of bringing democracy to the ME. There is no rational dealing with a delusional individual. Maybe we should have some mental health professionals bring him back to reality.
Wigwam — thank you very much for this painful bit:
This is how Bush has been counseled; he has been told there is very little that can stop him — and that maiming and assaulting of CHILDREN is within his purview.
Worse, it has been done, as a simple search around the internets will tell you, and it has been done because of the very same counsel to Bush, and in our names.
Do not let them do this to yet more children in yet another country. At some point we must consider doing far more than we did in 2002 and 2003 to stop these mad men who believe they have impunity torture children in our names.
meta @ 38
Wow. My performance on that test was embarassing!
Thanks for that link. I obviously need some educating!
Taylor – You are right on. And it is scary. The difference between Iran and Iraq however is that this time there will most likely be no British, Spanish and Italian support. Nor are there expats (such as the anti-Saddam people) calling for this move. Bush will be doing it alone. It suggests how scared the Bushies are about the next election. Also, how out of touch they are with world opinion and that of most professionals here. This is also a move that involves great risk, for Israel will be a key brunt of counter attacks. And, as the recent foray in Lebanon proved both to Israel and Syria supporters, Israel is not all that secure when faced with massive popular attack from the outside.
I would love to see someone here and elsewhere in the blogs (more clever and connected than I) put together something politically pre-emptive before any Iran air attacks can actually take place.
it’s a great post trex
I want to clarify one point
give us greater access to all that sweet, black, delicious oil. Oil, oil, oil.
it’s to resrict the market so they can raise the price, it’s not having the oil, it’s being ablle to resrtict the oil
nice post…cut and pasting it with links to here I am
Daily Kos has a great discussion going about the Turley interview with K.O. It’s chilling the point he makes and it makes me angry that the dems continue to sit back without speaking up on this one and framing it properly.
We have to get Bush out of office or we will be completely alone when he attacks Iran.
Yay, Rayne!
I mentioned the following last night, but it bears repeating here. . .
I’ve been playing around lately in some archives of old speeches, and your post made me think of Douglas MacArthur. Not exactly a bleeding heart liberal progressive. But in 1962, he was given the Thayer Award at West Point – a huge honor – and used the occasion of the award to talk about the code of “Duty – Honor – Country”.
Here’s a taste of General MacArthur’s address to the corps of cadets:
I’m guessing that Bush never connected with the whole “Duty-Honor-Country” thing in the Texas Air National Guard.
More from MacArthur:
Bush could learn a lot from listening to old, dead soldiers. It might help the living soldiers to stay that way a good while longer, and give their prayers for peace a much better chance of being realized.
We need all of Europe to put sanctions on the US. That’s the only way to get the american people to wake up to stop the madman.
good morning, and gotta run.
Lobster @ 34
Yesterday there were political ads on NPR for the upcoming elections. One attacked the Democrat on the issue of wiretaps. From the above mentioned article, I highlight this:
“LUTTWAK: It’s more like an erosion. The president is usurping additional powers. Although what’s interesting is that the president’s usurpation of this particular power was entirely unnecessary. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court, which approves terrorism-related requests for wiretaps, can be summoned over the telephone in a matter of minutes. In its entire history, it has said no to a request for surveillance only a handful of times, and those were cases where there was a mistake in the request. Really, even a small-town sheriff can get any interception he wants, so long as after the fact he can show a judge that there was reasonable cause.”
So many battles, so little time.
Also bear in mind, that the Air Force will probably be called on to do the deed, a military branch now overrun at every level with fundies. The better to bring about the hoped for Rapture. Also, it is less likely the upper brass will speak out against the plan. (I can’t get out of my head that horrible image that was posted of kids praying before the huge image of Bush and the flag during bible summer camp).
the president is said to see himself as being like Winston Churchill, and to believe that the world will only appreciate him after he leaves office; he talks about the Middle East in messianic terms
A lot has been said about Winston Churchill that is not very flattering. That he was bipolar, craved power, was the last of the imperalists, etc. However, Churchill did not invent the threat of Nazi Germany– Not like Chimpco invented the threat of nucular weapons in Iraq, which is more like how Hitler invented the “threat” of Poland and the Jewish folks in order to goosestep into Poland and detain/torture/kill millions of persons in concentration camps and Gestapo posts, and spurn the precurser to the United Nations. If I was being nice, I would say ChimpCo is Napolean sailing on the battleship Potemkin.
There is no way for this administration to “make nice” with Iran, because it has become clear to everyone in the ME and many in Asia that BushCo is intent on stamping his own facist brand of hegemony on them. Especially since ChimpCo showed so little sympathy when it came to those Lebanese civilains, many of them children.
Cheney recently said he would do exactly the same thing w/r/t Iraq “knowing what we now know” (of course! They knew what we know now back then too. This might have been the one time Cheney was telling the truth!).
This admin. has an agenda that dates back to way before 9/11 and has nothing to do with terrorism, and NOTHING detracts these dangerous fools from their own agenda. Some nuisance or tragedy pops up, like 9/11 or Katrina? They just USE it to further that agenda.
They are the only known. What is unclear to me is how and when so many Americans became so stupid, ignorant and like cult members that lunatics like these ever came to power and have managed to hold onto it despite all that has happened.
Great post Taylor. It is going on already – by all reports Rumsfeld has been sending or allowing terrorists groups to go back and forth over the border for disrupstions with fair impunity.
The more Bush is under the gun for things like torture, the more the noise machine turns out and his numbers creep up, so it reinforces his perception that he gains approval and support through war and crime. No one is disabusing him of that concept.
lhp- the first responders piece is hard to believe. Hasn’t this been “THE” issue on the table for preparedness? For natural and man-made disasters?
Old Coastie – I’ve never really heard any confirmation of the Hersh story, only that the private review Rumsfeld arranged of a few members of Congress and “unreleased” info had them shaken. I do think that there is blastocyte protection in both the Bush and Graham bills.
Demand for Torture Investiations/COmmissions? I may try to throw together a long post later, but I just looked yesterday at some of the pieces that ran here and there in the press last year and one piece as a long examination of pros/cons torture (in NYT I think – by an ex-editor?) In any event, one of the statement that jumped right out at you was that Collins and others the author spoke with said they weren’t hearing anything from constituents on the matter.
Is there no way – with the list below – to get support for demanding a torture investigation before torture legislation (incuding doing away with Habeas) is passed? It’s not “torturing terrorists because there is a ticking time bomb, it IS:
1. Beating an innocent cab driver across his legs until bone and muscle are jellied, then leaving him tied in a position where has to try to stand on the pulverized mass to be able to breathe – and having the innocent tortured many die when he cannot.
2. Kidnapping an innocent Canadian citizen and sending them to Syria for torture all the while hiding from Canada what we were doing. Leading to the most recent Canadian investigation which (and no one is talking about this part much) has indicated that the RMCP et al have rules about sharing intelligence with countries who torture and that now applies to the US – so the Canadian judge is indicating that Bush’s actions are threatening the ability of our border ally to share info with us.
3. Kidnapping and directly handling and participating in the torture of an innocent German citizen travelling on a valid passport based on his name. Just that. Kind of like the Omars murdered in Baghdad. Threatening our relations with Germany.
4. Kidnapping from Italy for torture, resulting in indictments issued against 20 purported CIA or other Executive Branch agents and embroiling the US in Italian investigations of intelligence misconduct.
5. Being in the position where we now have to confess to the existence of rendition flights that were previously denied, with the result that Spain has a judge that has required an investigation – the US State Dept is giving Spain the somewhat implausible story that: yes, renditition flights did land in Spain, but pinky-swear they were always “empty” and we were “just” on our way to or from torture sites or kidnapping, never did we land on your soil with a kidnapped or tortured victim. Oddly enough, they are still investiating even after that reassuring statement.
6. The European COuncil and other organizations are all involved in an investigation of rendition flights that Our Own Congress is ignoring.
7. Americans are having to find out from investigation in other countries what the American Govt has been doing – including, with Arar, the release of times, places and names all of which were paranoically claimed as “state secrets” in the Arar litigation here.
8. WIth the 14 arrivals at Guantanamo, there is still no explantion of what has happened with the up to 80 additional kidnapped persons acknowledged in some reports, or the CIA Inspector General’s investigation that last year Dana Priest said might be looking into three dozen renditions of wholly innocent people.
9. WIth torture of even those with acknowledged ties to al-Qaeda, there has not been any ticking time bomb scenario. The PResident has yet to acknowledge that Zubaydah was known to be nuts before his questioning, that to escape torture he invented all kinds of plots on malls and public places that did not really exist – but gave his torturers something so they would reduce his torture, and someone really needs to ask about the Padilla confessions he made, especially since the Florida court is going to allow torture statements to be used in the Padilla trial (thank you Ashcroft & Co for what you have done to this country) Bucket swinging Mr. President? The “critically important” info involved bucket swinging?
10. Perhaps most importantly, the torture of al-Libi was used to get him to make Cheney approved statements on training camps etc. in Iraq, all of which have been proven untrue, but which were very much wanted by Cheney to help flesh the grounds for going to war – and torture got him the lies he needed.
11. Then there are all the completely innocent persons, like the Chinese Uighars, that have been kidnapped and sent to GITMO and had no way to secure any release until the courts that Graham and Bush both want to get rid of became involved. Why hasn’t any committee had them, or anyone similar, before it to discuss things that went wrong – very wrong – and how to prevent them with any new legislation? For that matter, why hasn’t anyone asked Rumsfeld under oath to go into his “worst of the worst” and “captured on the battlefield, have to keep them from returning to the battlefield” statements? And then follow up on the Uighars etc.?
12. There is also the issue of children. Children kidnapped with their parents and held. Children used to make their parents talk. Children tortured themselves. Reports of all of them going unchecked (to where it is no surprise to hear about troops raping a 14 yo and murdering her and her baby sister, as well as parents – Bush, Cheney, Pace, Rumsfeld, Hayden, Tenet, Gonzales, Ashcroft etc. – all allowing children to be kidnapped and used as fodder, exactly what message does that send to troops on the ground, encouraged to hate all the Iraqis anyway?
How can you have that panolpy and no one in Congress is saying they need to investigate the Bush Administration torture programs and orders before they authorize legislation?
And no one saying that this President, who has claimed all kinds of power he doesn’t have – but which Congress has handed over like lunch money to a bully – DOES have the power of pardon, making amnesty provisions unnecessary. If he has ordered violations of law, he can pardon them. If torture has taken place without his knowledge or consent, then he would obviously want it investigated and punished, not covered up and given amnesty – right?
Anyone want to ask what kinds of things both the Bush and the Graham bills would provide amnesty to for Hussein? After all, the Kurds were all un-uniformed “enemy combatants”
“I wonder how many people in Congress know?”
I swear I’ve seen reports, but can’t remember where, that there are several members of Congress who have been briefed in and who are, if anything, at least as hawish on this as the President.
trueblue @
45
trueblue, it took me quite a few minutes!
Rayne #39: Thanks for the good news!
After the Iran/Iraq war, Bush finishes what Iran could not.
After years of buffering by its enemies Afghanistan and Iraq, both like Iran, have become Shiite dominated, neither are stable democracies, increasing Iran’s influence.
After financing Iran’s nuclear program, support of Hamas and Hezbollah, with ever-increasing oil revenues and his energy policies, Bush wants war against that which his policies created.
Hamas, democratically elected, Hezbollah could be too. Both have more influence than ever.
These are the results of Bush’s plan to stabilize the region by spreading democracy.
What does this mean?
Good Morning Taylor and Firedogs
The Frontline Cheney Heart of Darkness Show confirmed something we all frequently hit on – it’s a small company town – and gossip, innuendo, and other snippets of truth are the lingua franca – everyone watching came away knowing that many of them knew plenty - and how much they knew was indicative of their spot on the Power food chain -
Gonna sound simplistic, but I’ve reduced their silence and acquiescence on AUMF to the then prevailing political atmosphere – political suicide to go up against that damn bullhorn – they’ve now seen where that leads – in addition the country’s mood and atmosphere have changed greatly -
so my constant, fervent prayer is many, many more will resist this time – and trust me, I know how naive that sounds – they should be speaking out NOW, but it’s all we’ve got
Redshift – hope all goes well, Rayne – glad all has gone well.
**********
Yesterday rawstory had a piece up that several choices were going to be approaching Lieberman to take a torture stand today.
*********
Wigwam – demonizing Yoo’s legal theories is like mustardizing grey poupon.
*********
OldCoastie @ 7
Does anyone know who might have provided Sy Hersh with this video? Sounds like something that needs to be leaked, and soon because Americans who support his position on torture naively think he’s just talking about serious bad-asses like OBL and Zarqawi (sp?).
How many Americans do suppose are aware that we not only captured Khalid Sheik Muhammad, we also captured his little kids?
This is what makes me a raving lunatic: if GWB is ok with raping a kid or crushing the testicles of a little boy, what hope is there?
kos is posting a wapo link that says the administration is dropping it’s request to redefine the genva treaty
however they are trying to get “immunity” for “our soldeirs to protect them”
translation;
“imunity for myself using our soldiers as sheilds”
Mary @56–
Thank you for pulling all these details together.
Talk about shocking the senses
Think Wolfie will ask Bushie about crushing little boy’s testicles when they go One-on-One [yeeeeuuuuuuwwwwww] in the Situation Room later today?
fyi, Wolfie/CNN was soliciting email questions, if you want an exercise in timewasting. Get real, CNN…put Cafferty on the case.
Danbury @ 55:
Why wouldn’t he? The war goes exactly as planned. Huge profits for the reconstruction and defense industries. The longer it goes on, the bigger the profiteering. We always seem to think that Bush had no plan for after the invasion. That is not true. His plan was all along for his cronies to profit from the war.
Mary @ 56
this is also a great post mary
do you have links to your enumerations, becuase I would SURELY like to referance your points but I WILL need the links
thanx in advance
Anyone know if chimpy is speaking publicly today? other than to blitzer
Mary: If I could write like you, I’d quit my day job.
Turley said that Bush is a “clear and present danger.” Something serious must be done.
Rayne: I must have missed you and the Mr. being under the weather. Hope is well with you both soon.
me to me — we will have to be VERY firm with own troops, even with people who may be family.
We must demand that our own troops be held to account for any acts of torture that were in violation of the Geneva Convention. By focusing on the most obvious and egregious examples — explicitly those where children were tortured or killed in an attempt to extract information — we are working in an arena where it should be absolutely clear there is NEVER permission, ZERO tolerance of this kind of behavior.
As a family member of a soldier who served in Iraq, I say this with no small amount of trepidation and concern, knowing the extremes under which we placed our troops, but I must hold to account even my own family member if they could not find it in themselves to have the basic humanity to reject and refuse to do something so abhorrent to all normal humans.
If we cannot do this, hold even our own accountable, we will not be able to hold that spoiled mad man and his minions accountable; we will be complicit by informed inaction.
You know the reason we are all so scared of what lies ahead with Iran, don’t you? It’s because we don’t have any faith that the other two branches of government can restrain this administration or hold it accountable. We are like a vehicle that has no brakes and no emergency brakes, and there’s a madman at the wheel.
I mean, how do you restrain an executive who willfully ignores and flouts the checks that are imposed on him? And where there is no price to be paid, no consequences exacted for having done so?
We’re afraid because the attitude and message is, “We’re doing what we want, we don’t care what you think, we don’t care what the courts rule, and there’s nothing you can do to stop us.”
That’s why we are afraid. The country’s in the hands of a madman, and we might as well turn the Congress into an orchestra, so that we can be entertained with music as the nation tumbles into the abyss.
(Glad to hear that Mr. Rayne is okay, and hoping all goes well with the Redshifts today)
Glad to find out that there were protests outside of the UN yesterday against the occupation of Iraq and Bush. Bush’s speech at the UN was so unreal and arrogant, and what was with the special treatment of the lights being lowered like a star was coming on stage? Interesting to watch the different countries reaction as Bush talked to them like 3rd graders being scolded in school, I was just waiting for some booing or something. I sure didn’t care for his lies one more time.
C-span yesterday had the talk on if the U.S. should get out of the UN, waste of money blah blah. Then there’s the International Criminal Court, might have been a way to solve problems of accountability , but the Bush Administration withdrew on the treaty May 2002, and 3 months later Bush signed a new law prohibiting any U.S. cooperation with the ICC. The law went so far as to include a provision authorizing the president to “use all means necessary and appropriare,” including a military invasion of the Netherlands, to free U.S. personnel detained or imprisoned by the ICC. … If the United States showed more interest in building an international justice system, they could have put Saddam Hussein on trial for his 1990 invasion of Kuwait. http://www.commondreams.org/cg…..825-06.htm
So will Bush attach Iran? Looks like he’s aiming to, and I guess I’d take what he says seriously. He certainly isn’t interested in Peace as he claims yesterday, or we would still be a country ratified with the International Criminal Court.
NPR has a story today on the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans, the same group that brought us the Iraq invasion. OSP is Cheney’s baby.
Cheney only has two more years to take Iran. He’s got Bush on his timetable: make a speech at the UN, say the US wants peace, impose sanctions, claim Iran violated nuclear treaty, nuke ‘em.
The US doesn’t have the troops to invade Iran. No, I fear this is going to go nuclear.
me to me @ 64
I think it was all kabuki anyway. The result Bush and Graham and Warner all wanted is amenesty for the President and the people he directed to commit crimes – so something more egregious had to be put on the table to make that look like the “good” alternative.
The fact that the House committee, including a huge chunk of the Dems, is ready to go foward with that legislation is mind numbing – and why I am not very enthused over voting for Dems bc they are going to change one God Damned (used in the biblical sense) thing.
Rayne @
44
One of things I find most painful is that the Republicans, Bush, McCain, and the rest, want to ratify in law the just-following-orders defense, which was so thoroughly repudiated at Nuremberg. They use the words “good faith” rather than “just following orders,” but it amounts to the same thing: “It committed these crimes in good faith on the assurance of my boss and/or counsel that all this stuff was legal.” This defense is already written into McCain’s Detainee Treatment Act of 2005.
me to me – yes, I’ll have to dig around some but I can get links to most Some of the Zubaydah and al-Libi is from Suskind’s book (although I know that there have been other sources that the “reports”(i.e., al-Libi’s torture statements) of training camps were disproved. I’ll probably have to just throw stuff up here and there instead of in one place, but I’ll get you links or quotes. The Suskind info on Zubaydah- some passages have been quoted so often that there are probably net references too.
Mary thank you for always remembering the people who have been so egregiously abused. You put faces and lives to the words.
That’s powerful and it matters and I thank you.
Dilawar, and so many others, deserve that from us.
Thank you for the post Taylor.
Hitler just wanted to rule the world.
Bush wants to destroy it.
All of this reminds me that I got a letter from my Rep. Rosa DeLauro, ending with this, more or less: “I have no confidence in (Preznit) Bush to address this threat. That is why I joined (Rep.) DeFazio and more than 40 of my colleagues in writing to Bush, warning him that any premeditated attack on Iran would be unconstitutional unless authorized by Congress.”
And then:
” With America bogged down in Iraq and the current situation in Lebanon, I am doubtful about U.S. Military action against Iran. But for sure we cannot allow the administration another unilateral military action that hurts rather than helps our security.”
Uh, er . . . spotlight to Congresscritters please?
me to me – A lot of links will be in these pieces from Obsidian Wings
but trying to find some for you, I just came across their new post up on Arar.
The Canadian report mentions in a vague way the need to investigate other Canadians held/tortured in Syria. Well, OW’s new piece is that the torture of some of those persons probably contributed to the pick up and torture of Arar.
Salem Witch Trials, now @ circa 2002 et seq.
Waterboarding: For when a dunking stool is just too much trouble.
Now -
something being discussed everywhere but the US Congress and OSP, is the Shia Crescent or Shia Revival as fueled/emboldened by US in Iraq. TDS had some Prof from one of the service academies on who has written on it (hint, hint, Dems)suspect there’s plenty over at Prof. Cole’s place – so there’s plenty out there as to just how swell Cheney’s Iran plans will go
am linking these 2 from Steve as they have the ring of authenticity to them
tidbit – yeah there’s the Medhi Army and Badr Brigades, but what about shia in Saudi rising up ? huh? what about the Kurds/Turks, huh ?
Iran Part 1 (Gilliard)
http://stevegilliard.blogspot……ke-pt.html
Iran Part 2 (Gilliard)
http://stevegilliard.blogspot……e-pt2.html
Mary @
62
Thanks, I like that.
Yesterday, you commented:
It’s my understanding that the War Crimes Act makes Common Article 3 a source of judicially enforceable individual rights, and that both bills are gutting the War Crime act when they legislate to the contrary. (FWIW, I have no legal training, and will gladly defer to superior knowledge on this matter.)
Mary @ 79
thank you so much
please tag your links with a referance to my name so I can use the control=f to find them
/much apprecuated mary
Open for business
Trade show in Irbil
It was just an ordinary trade show – booths papered with colorful displays and overflowing with brochures. It was the hum of business, the sound of sales pitches and the slap of handshakes.
Except this trade show was in Iraq.
The city of Irbil hosted “Rebuild Iraq 2006” Sept. 14-17. More than 800 companies from 27 countries were represented inside a makeshift convention center in the capital of the Kurdistan region. Raid Rahmani, an engineer and chairman of the Iraqi Economic Development Corporation, had just two months to put the event together, but said he had little trouble filling the hall.
“People see that now is the time to come together and do business in Iraq,” he said.
http://coolblue.typepad.com/th…..index.html
clean up requested : 266 last thread!
Go here for Iraq trade show: DEFEND AMERIOCA http://www.defendamerica.mil/a…..06dg3.html
Who has money in Iraq to buy the stuff at this trade show anyway?
U.S. firms GM, Ford, Motorola, FedEx, air-conditioning giant Carrier, generator maker Cummins, and Secure Global Engineering all had booths. French firm Electrolux was there. Volkswagen sold cars inside; Daimler-Chrysler preferred the outdoor lot. Local companies hawked licensed services ranging from Western Union money transfers and Hitachi washing machines to Showtime television. The Trade Bank of Iraq was trumpeting a new deal with Visa that allowed Iraqis traveling abroad to have their statement recorded in Iraqi dinars when they returned home – a boost for the local currency and a convenience most of the developed world takes for granted.
One row of booths was filled entirely with businesses from Iran and Syria.
“We are all businessmen. We don’t interfere in politics,” Rahmani said. “If any company would like to add something to our country, they are most welcome.”
A contingent of U.S. military was also there – but only to shop.
Wigwam #78 — Although IANAL, the “good faith” defense is useless in the face of evidence that any agent of the military knowingly committed assault upon a child.
How can it be in “good faith”, in any culture, by any stretch of the human imagination, to commit bodily injury upon a child?
The notion of wantonly and willfully inflicting harm upon a child is so inhumane and repugnant that it can NEVER be an act of “good faith”.
I don’t even see how compromising on past acts of this nature, between 9/11/06 and now, could even be considered “good faith”. How can McCain and Graham even consider ignoring this issue as they debate the entire concept of torture by American personnel “good faith”?
Agh…there’s Republican family f*cking values for you. I think somebody in the media needs to grow a pair of los ovarios and ask McCain pointblank on camera, if the torture and imprisonment he experienced in Vietnam should ever be legal when perpetrated on a child.
Bush press appearance right now saying how inspired he is by Mahmoud Abbas’ vision. Repeated “vision” multiple times.
All along we’ve seen Bush speaking in tongues…now he’s doing the vision thing.
Can this get more messianic? God help us all. Obviously the Congress won’t.
Why does Congress not provide for emergency communications
for fire fighters and police? Why did FEMA try to shut off local
communications of police after Hurricane Katrina?
Why was the Emergency Center at the World Trade Center
evacuated-Building 7-resulting in no emergency communications.
Who told WTC employees not to evacuate after the
first Tower was hit by a jet aircraft? Why was George Bush’s
brother Marvin-who headed WTC security-not held accountable
for the failures on 9/11. Why was 9/11 evidence destroyed
and perjured testimony to the 9/11 Commission not prosecuted?
Some questions are easy to answer. Why is Olbermann a
lone voice of courage in an orchestra of right wing nut lies?
Because, Katie, Oprah, Matt, Wolfe, Britt are cowards, and not
much different than Rush, Bill, Sean and Weener. Total
Information Awareness includes threats and bribes to
reporters and journalists. That is how Richard Mellon Scaife-
who funded “The Path to 9/11″-installed right-wing governments
in western Europe.
Do Neocons and Bush torture children and invade countries
for God or Money?
That is easy, they do it for the money.
They use the words “good faith” rather than “just following orders,” but it amounts to the same thing
Amen.
WaPo Priest – Up to 3 doz wrongful imprisonments being investigated, backstory on el-Masri
Also says that the CIA may have taken up to 3000 off the books prisoners so far.
I liked the “you couldn’t have the President lying to the German Chancellor” part at the end. Lying to the American people is fine -just not his neck massaging buddy.
Here’s the long NYT article from last year that included this:
emph added
Is there a way to make them hear a little more?
Incidentally saw this link on the Ned Lamont Blog. Russ Feingold’s progressive patriots fund. Cast a vote for your favorite Senate challanger – which ever candidate recieves the most votes will be featued in a fundraising email from Senator Feingold. For more information about the candidates, check out our “Meet the Candidates” page. Make sure you include your a valid email address or your vote will not be counted.
I know the other races are also crucial, but I chose Ned.
Progressive Patriots-Vote
I am deeply suspicious of the recent drop in gasoline prices. Crude prices have only gone down to low $60’s/bbl, hardly enough to warrent current prices at the pump.
Big oil clearly wants Congress to remain a rubber stamp and is likely doing this to lull us into keeping the status quo.
If so, look for prices to go back up a week or two after the elections…
BTW. I was not blogwhoring. The Iran thing drives me into a skittishness for the upcoming elections.
Mary – your call to investigate the torture before we pass any legislation relative to it is an excellent idea, but I think that’s what the push to get it passed so quickly is all about. If I can use a sports analogy, we have to throw the red “challenge” flag to review a bad call by the officials before the other team gets another play off, or we won’t be able to challenge it.
All the normal and reasonable things that should be happening, should be in play, should be part of the process are constructively absent, because this Congress has failed to do its job – and in some cases, has encouraged, supported and enabled the president to continue on his course.
What will it take to stop the madness? What has to happen? Do we have to take to the streets? Truly, I do not know how you stop someone who refuses to be deterred from the path he is on.
Re: Tradeshow in Iraq
while googling something else, I came across some news (which I now can’t find!!) about the airport in Irbil -
it’s been shut down numerous times – partly due to local factions fighting over the Turkish heroin trade (local cabbies making money as mules?)and general unrest
oh now I remember – it is connected with the Israelis training Kurds story – yeah so they got that going for them
http://news.google.com/news/ur…..1109647806
meta @ 38
Had some trouble with the former Soviet ’stans, but all in all, I think I did better than my mother would have…and she thinks Bush’s war is a good thing.
ccmask @ 9
God save our gracious Queen. God keep our noble Queen. God save the Queen. Don’t be putting Canada in harm’s way!!
Don’t give those guys any ideas.
Rayne @ 91
This upsets me so much I did some quick googling and found a number of reports across Europe about Iraqi children being abused by Coalition forces. Also this 2004 report on Abu Ghraib from Human Rights Watch with the headline “Only the Tip of the Iceburg.”
http://hrw.org/english/docs/20…..t10545.htm
No wonder the president is busting his butt to get amnesty. We’re talking war crimes by the score.
Meanwhile, Marcy (emptywheel) calls out Negroponte for either passing along propaganda – a/k/a unvetted intelligence – on Iran to Bush (despite his claims that this would never happen) or doing such a piss-poor job of vetting that even folks on the outside can see the report is garbage.
Wigwam @ 85
It’s my understanding that the War Crimes Act makes Common Article 3 a source of judicially enforceable individual rights, and that both bills are gutting the War Crime act when they legislate to the contrary. (FWIW, I have no legal training, and will gladly defer to superior knowledge on this matter.)
Yes they are hitting the war crimes act (and there are other statutes that may be impacted by implication or directly as well) just as they are and have already tried to gut the habeas statute.
I just wanted to make it clear that the statement in both pieces of legislation (i.e., that the Geneva Conventions – even though they are law of the land, do not give rise to a private cause of action – is true. Both pieces of legislation then move on the the war crimes act (which doesn’t make EVERY violation of the Conventions a war crime anyway – only more egregious ones – so it is interesting that they are saying that they have done and want to do things so egregious that they might otherwise fall under the war crimes act).
The other, even bigger imo, impact is the general incorporation of the Geneva Conventions into the laws of war and the UCMJ – all of which was the heart of Hamdan They are saying that they are willing, to cover up for Presidentially authorized torture, to change the whole of our military culture, laws and tradition and disenfranchse and de-incorporate the standards of the Geneva Conventions from the UCMJ.
Keep in mind, that no prosecutions under the UCMJ or War Crimes Act will ever be pursued, anyway, by the current DOJ – which has a history now from Ashcroft – Thompson through Gonzales – McNulty and everyone in between of endorsing war crimes and general criminal behavior, endorsing and even through approval memoranda soliciting. We have no DOJ whatsoever where crimes by the President and approved by the Atty Gens or Dep Atty Gens are involved and not only do we have no DOJ in those instances, we have the fullweight and power of the Executive Branch “justice” branch being used to support the coverups, conspiracies, and conduct of the crimes.
So with that perspective -no private standing, prosecution branch co-opted to commiting and not enforcing crime – what has been going on that they think will come back to bite them – years on down the line? I can tell you the statute of limitation for a “hard slap” shouldn’t have anyone so very concerned.
From Whats Wrong with American Foreign Policy
Argh – don’t know what happened.
Rayne, thanks for the update – so glad it’s good news.
I think somebody in the media needs to grow a pair of los ovarios and ask McCain pointblank on camera, if the torture and imprisonment he experienced in Vietnam should ever be legal when perpetrated on a child.
Agreed.
EvilDrPuma @ 100
Yeah, there were also hard for me. But it’s actually a really fun exercise to move the names around the map and see the outcome.
touching on one of my pet theories about this WH’s MO -
his adamance, recalcitrance tells me someone drew the short straw and had to tell him very recently that there was legal/criminality trouble on the horizon
he did it with wiretapping and the Dubai Ports deal – the further in to the ground he digs his little boots – the louder he yelps, the more recently he was informed
think it went something like this – Unca Dick told him they got their hands on some bad guys and “it may have to get a little rough”, but that it was all legal, he was Prez after all, etc.
now something recently (enter Prof. Turley’s suppositions) required they inform him that maybe it wasn’t “so legal after all”, but don’t worry, we’ll just legistlate it all away yada yada yada and everything will be just jake – hence the clenched fist on the lectern
anyone watching hugo chavez at UN on CNN?
Hugo Chavez talking to a nearly empty UN hall holding up Noam Chomsky’s book and saying the podium still smells like sulfur from the devil who visited yesterday.
He is burning Bush.
Taylor, thanks for a great post on a topic that has had me deeply worried for months. I think it is obvious that a bombing campaign is in the offing, and the thought that it could be nuclear makes me nauseated. When I first read the Fallows/Atlantic piece I thought maybe reality would intrude on the planning, but I don’t believe that now. I wonder what is wrong with our president, and I don’t mean that rhetorically. He doesn’t seem normal, even in the carefully scripted bits we see on TV.
meta 38 thanks for the map. I did a lot better than I would have done before the Iraq war, but it was still a good learning experience.
I have been lurking lately due to being slammed for time, but one reason is that I have been out going door-to-door with my fellow Dems. It is one of the concrete things we can do to channel our despair and outrage.
I also have been trying to get my congress candidate to prepare for the attack on Iran. They should all be doing this. The evening that Chimpy goes on TV to announce it is not the first time they should think about what to say to a microphone.
If all the Dems would talk about it now, it would be even better, especially incumbents. A suggested campaign promise: if a Democratic congress is elected, I will support withdrawing the AUMF from further application to anything. I will support a resolution prohibiting the armed forces from attacking Iran without explicit authorization from Congress. I will support amnesty for any senior military officer who refuses an order to use nuclear weapons on Iran.
I entered this thread late. I got to comment 9 and got silly. Sorry.
I think it’s because the entire thread is so chilling.
How can people have so effectively muted the moral sensibilities of Americans through this 30 year process that has resulted in the legitimation of the rape of children?
How can Americans have fallen asleep? How can churches have been used as agents and venues for the moral desuetude of America?
How can a man who should be tried for war crimes be seen as a credible harbinger of the “Third Great Awakening”? (Is Bush trying to make himself appear to have inherited the mantle of Jonathan Edwards, who also went to Yale?)
How and why can we have substituted this enormous, destructive, earth-destroying immoral behemoth of ideology for a humane, faithful and inquisitive decency?
It is so disturbing and so evil. It is a dystopia. Back to Margaret Atwood, the prophet.
me to me
http://www.neworleansvfp.org/node/3152
Reassuring – 50% of what we know comes from things like the al-Libi and Zubaydah and el-Masri and Arar tortures. Ok -Arar was given to someone else to torture, but still a reassuring scenario.
That doesn’t sound to me like people who are begging to be placed in a “keep going, we’ve made it all legal now” position.
Chavez – “the devil was here yesterday, right here. it still smells like sulfur. mr bush is the devil that i am referring to.”
- he acts as if he owns the world
- bush is the spokesman of imperialism
Imperial Democracy– false democracies of elites.
Weapons and bombs– what a strange democracy!
chavez – where ever bush looks, he sees extremists. you my brother (points to brown guy) he sees as an extremist.
Chavez_: dear world dictator, we are rising up against the empire and the domination.
chavez – i have come to speak directly to the people of the ME and tell them we want peace.
the govt of the US doesn’t want peace.
chavez – talking about BushCo “how cynical can u get? what a capacity to lie”
angie @ 111
twolf1 and angie, thanks for the notice. Chavez is on fire!
US Defends renditions before UN Human rights comm.
While the Pres was giving his speech,
Why Congress isn’t hearing more from constituents: the MSM isn’t covering it (except, possibly, in a small article on an inside page). Most people don’t go to blogs for news. A lot of people, if they do go online for news, get it all from MSNBC.com or CNN.com or Yahoo. I know CNN.com isn’t giving this the space it deserves; I doubt that the other big news sites are, either. Thus the general public is in the dark….
Great graphic, BTW!
(whoever it was – I was incorrect yesterday on the length of a gigasecond. 31 years 8 months something days – 31.688 years. I plead memory failure.)
chavez – bush came here yesterday to speak to the people of the world. he spoke to the people of iraq, iran, afghanistan etc. What would they say to him? yankee terrist, GO HOME!
Love Chavez’ female translator.
well Thank God, all that alternative interrogation was so f’ing helpful to the people of Spain, England, Turkey, & Bali
righty-O
Aisle 36 still needs cleanup. Comment spam, pushing prescription drugs.
chavez -venezuela proposes today that we re-establish the UN.
CNN should turn his mic down and translators mic up
twolf1 @ 124
my favorite so far.
Even Christian Broadcast News picked up this AP story
War Prisons Legal Vacuum
Chavez: the immoral veto of the US allowed Israel to destroy Lebanon…
chavez – in the last 10 yrs, human rights violations have gotten worse.
chavez – there has been an open attack by US govt to prevent venezuela from being elected to permanent post to UN.
Christian Science Monitor Asks – is the President lying and are we STILL doing the Gulag thing?
chavez – the US has already planned, financed and set in motion a coup in venezuela
*ilson – are you off enjoying the fruits of your oppo-research labors ? – hope you left the tv on for Hugo & Fidelito – for some reason our Miguelito is sitting enrapt in front of the box
I have to say that after watching some of the leaders speak at the UN, we are in deep doo doo and our place in the world has shifted dramatically since bushco came to power…
it’s the end of empire.
me to me – the Christian Science Monitor article has some of the al-Libi/torture/al-Qaeda ties to Iraq info.
As well as having a whole bunch of questions someone should be asking.
Chavez: accuses the US of terrorism via the CIA.
hoo boy!
chavez – I accuse the American govt of protecting terrorists
now Angie,
doncha know ? Dick says “we’re an Empire now”
chavez – we can trust fidel castro… they thought he was going to die, they will be disappointed because he didn’t.
accuses America of cynical discourse
chavez – we want ideas to save our planet… to save our planet from this imperialist threat.
maybe we have to move the UN somewhere else.
BTW – with Arar, el-Masri, etc isn’t the question not what will happen to American soldiers if captured by al-Qaeda, but what protections Americans travelling should expect from Germany, Canada, Italy etc.?
Has Bush just put a bullseye on every American who travels?
Chavez: It smells of sulfur here but God is with us!
chavez – “it smells of sulfur here… may god bless us all.” speech over. he gets more applauds than chimpy even though there are less people there.
I just made my first use of the spotlight function. What a great tool.
new thread
Mary @
103
So with that perspective -no private standing, prosecution branch co-opted to commiting and not enforcing crime – what has been going on that they think will come back to bite them – years on down the line? I can tell you the statute of limitation for a “hard slap” shouldn’t have anyone so very concerned.
Thanks for the clarifications.
Some sayt that Bush failed to learn the lessons of Vietnam. Actually, he failed to learn the lessons of Nuremberg.
Some day, somewhere, somehow, someone is going to prosecute him. There’s no statute of limitations on war crimes.
Chavez really cleaned house.
oh for &*^%$”s sake: from the wapo chat today:
CNN touching on the growing anti-american sentiment at the UN
yeah, the anchors sound nervous…..
Iran is the one issue that gives me nightmares, more even than vote tampering.
OT..L*tus asked me to post this…it took from about 7am until now to arrive in my mailbox!!! Slow Toobz…..anyway, her post follows:
Good morrow, OS, twolfie, and all!
Rayne and Redshift, darlin’s, my first (((((HUGS))))) of the day are to you and your loves — and plenty more where those came from! As somebody said last night, let us hold you up anyway we can.
As usual, (a) news abounds but (b) software glitches so (c) I’ll be asking those of you whose email addies I have to help me out until it’s fixed again, trying not to pester any one person too much. Much thanks, OS, for providing today’s first aid.
Before I wade into the DC/global news, here’s a story I wanted to pass along yesterday: talk of rerouting the lower Mississippi. NYT ran a graphics-laden 3-pager yesterday –
– and today, The Indy has
never mind
Scientists shocked as Arctic polar route emerges
The satellite images were acquired from August 23 to 25 by instruments aboard Envisat and EOS Aqua, two satellites operated by the European Space Agency (ESA).
cbl 108 – “now something recently (enter Prof. Turley’s suppositions) required they inform him that maybe it wasn’t “so legal after all”, but don’t worry, we’ll just legistlate it all away yada yada yada and everything will be just jake – hence the clenched fist on the lectern”
_____
OK, news reports are saying Bush has “blinked” and will now quietly “compromise” to get a bill approved. Vigilance, y’all. I wanna see if the “compromise” legislation has the equivalent of the CYA clause contained in Bush’s original legislative submission (below):
SEC. 9. RETROACTIVE APPLICATION.
This Act shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act and shall apply retroactively, including to any aspect of the detention, treatment, or trial of any person detained at any time since September 11, 2001, and to any claim or cause of action pending on or after the date of the enactment of this Act.
_____
Prick is right to be sweating the Hague.
_
Shocking insight this morning. I must have died and gone to hell at some point without realizing it. Its the only rational explanation.
Because if this were reality, everyone would be in the streets with pitchforks and torches. Even Democratic politicians.
How would we recognize them? That’s easy – they’d be the ones cowering at the back hiding their faces.
I haven’t read every comment, so if this is redundant, please excuse.
Bottom, bottom, bottom line: We absolutely must win House and Senate races THIS November. To do otherwise gives Bush a blank check and freedom to undermine the democracy he pretends to defend.
MUST. WIN. IN. NOVEMBER.
Give time. Give money. Write relentlessly. Get involved. Act as though your life depended on it. Oh, wait. It does.
meta @ 58
All my 8th and 9th graders can do it perfectly! :) They couldn’t two weeks ago, but they can now.
Mornin’ Taylor, another great one.
Iran is the issue that has robbed me of sleep, and peace since last winter. It’s the true end game. This is what some of Steve Clemons’ sources are worried about: the NEXT big one. It’s what the retired generals are screaming about, and what active duty folks are having nightmares over.
I don’t know why we think we can attack with no consequences. Just possibly, they might strike back. Am going to hold it there before I go on one of my egregious rants.
angie @ 151
I’m writing *my* MP, to urge that she stamp her feet and whistle on this. She can do it, too, she’s Peggy Nash and she deep-sixed Gyn Morgan’s appointment. Morgan was Stevie Harper’s choice for a central govt hiring czar — in theory to provide “efficiency and accountability in staffing the government”, in practice would have been more like a Cdn Jim O’Bierne… Not too shabby for a freshman MP. She’s scrappy as a Jack Russell and does her homework. *This* is what’s it’s like to have a rep who represents, and I wish it for you too. You will *love* it!
The Arar report is quite firm about Mounties and CSIS not sharing info w/ a country that tortures or permits torture. Justice O’Conner was pretty pissed about that, he basically told them “fool you twice…” The report (.pdf, sorry) has a great analysis on why torture is prohibited starting at p 51, referencing applicable international treaties and conventions in addition to the basic human injustice. Lots of footnotes for me2me and anyone else. Note: I don’t the the US has actually signed all the treaties etc. we Canucks have, but you s/b able to check that easily.
Rayne, glad for your news, doing a little Rayne dance. Hope the Redshifts get good new, too.
What, no birthdays?
Mary, ma’am, we’re not worthy. Mary for AG! Or Queen!
Why Bushco/pnac Iraq’d Iraq: http://www.trinicenter.com/oops/iraqeuro.html
and then:
Congressman Ron Paul TX (R)
Before the U.S. House of Representatives
February 15, 2006
The End of Dollar Hegemony
~snip~ “…Though we don’t occupy foreign countries to directly plunder, we nevertheless have spread our troops across 130 nations of the world. Our intense effort to spread our power in the oil-rich Middle East is not a coincidence. But unlike the old days, we don’t declare direct ownership of the natural resources– we just insist that we can buy what we want and pay for it with our paper money. Any country that challenges our authority does so at great risk.
Once again Congress has bought into the war propaganda against Iran, just as it did against Iraq. Arguments are now made for attacking Iran economically, and militarily if necessary. These arguments are all based on the same false reasons given for the ill-fated and costly occupation of Iraq.
Our whole economic system depends on continuing the current monetary arrangement, which means recycling the dollar is crucial. Currently, we borrow over $700 billion every year from our gracious benefactors, who work hard and take our paper for their goods. Then we borrow all the money we need to secure the empire (DOD budget $450 billion) plus more. The military might we enjoy becomes the “backing” of our currency. There are no other countries that can challenge our military superiority, and therefore they have little choice but to accept the dollars we declare are today’s “gold.” This is why countries that challenge the system– like Iraq, Iran and Venezuela– become targets of our plans for regime change.
Ironically, dollar superiority depends on our strong military, and our strong military depends on the dollar. As long as foreign recipients take our dollars for real goods and are willing to finance our extravagant consumption and militarism, the status quo will continue regardless of how huge our foreign debt and current account deficit become.
But real threats come from our political adversaries who are incapable of confronting us militarily, yet are not bashful about confronting us economically. That’s why we see the new challenge from Iran being taken so seriously. The urgent arguments about Iran posing a military threat to the security of the United States are no more plausible than the false charges levied against Iraq. Yet there is no effort to resist this march to confrontation by those who grandstand for political reasons against the Iraq war.
It seems that the people and Congress are easily persuaded by the jingoism of the preemptive war promoters. It’s only after the cost in human life and dollars are tallied up that the people object to unwise militarism.
The strange thing is that the failure in Iraq is now apparent to a large majority of American people, yet they and Congress are acquiescing to the call for a needless and dangerous confrontation with Iran.
But then again, our failure to find Osama bin Laden and destroy his network did not dissuade us from taking on the Iraqis in a war totally unrelated to 9/11.
Concern for pricing oil only in dollars helps explain our willingness to drop everything and teach Saddam Hussein a lesson for his defiance in demanding Euros for oil.
And once again there’s this urgent call for sanctions and threats of force against Iran at the precise time Iran is opening a new oil exchange with all transactions in Euros.
Using force to compel people to accept money without real value can only work in the short run. It ultimately leads to economic dislocation, both domestic and international, and always ends with a price to be paid.
and then:
why they will Iraq Iran: Iran’s Oil Bourse
*no US coverage…hint/wink*
I know I’m late on this one, but Goddess Power has come in with Hugo Chavez, glad finally someone has guts enough to face and call the Devil for what he is. Armed with a book written by Noam Chomsky, I’m loving it today.
Hey Lou, your right about that, money is the issue. Iran wants to go Euro, last i heard.
Hi Nancy, I couldn’t get this to post right…er…a…correctly, so I made it Tiny
Iran’s Oil Bourse: http://tinyurl.com/emvnt (Google News search)
mui @
94
So did I.
DRAFT REPUBLICANS NOW!!!!!!!!!
It’s the only way to be sure…
Attacking Iran will “freeze” the U.S. in “war mode”–When we are attacked back (by terrorists or other means) that will once again solidify Bu$hCo’s support, fill the population with fear and anger, and Bu$hCo will be off and running again, just like ‘03.
The Dems will acquiese, PATRIOT Act III, IV and V will pass, dealing the final death-blow to the Constitution, the BLOGS will be shut down, detention camps in remote areas of the U.S. will open and MANY OF THE SAME PEOPLE POSTING HERE TODAY WILL BE ARRESTED AND MAY NEVER BE SEEN AGAIN BY THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILIES.
A new dark age will dawn on America and the world, and THE AGE OF CORPORATISM WILL HAVE BEGUN.
I give this a 50-50% chance of coming to pass at this point. I really do.
No shit.
cathy @ 50
Great idea.
The German people did not stop Hitler, the rest of the world had to do it.
Please England, dump Blair now and start working with the EU on Bush.
I keep asking myself what Jesus Christ would do if in George W. Bush’s position?
Bwahahahahahahaha.
First, I hardly think Jesus Christ would be a preemptive president hell-bent on starting war after war with countries who haven’t attacked the United States.
But, I could be wrong. Maybe someone got it reversed and Jesus Christ was a warmonger instead of the Prince of Peace. Maybe Jesus Christ was the one who did the crucifying instead of the one being crucified. Maybe someone else said “Blessed are the Peacemakers.”
Oh, tut tut, such minor details. Bush says he’s a Christian and a loyal follower of Jesus Christ, so it must be true.
Bwahahahahahahahahaha.
drinksforall @ 19
Of course. The remake of Seven Days in May,
where Burt Lancaster plays Cheney and the Joint Chiefs are Warner, McCain, Graham, and (at last) Colin Powell. Al Pacino has to play POTUS. Of course, the good guys win.
We’re already in Iran. And to tighten the races, to win, Bush will do whatever it takes.
Computer-Geezer @ 171wrote: If you are so hell bent on bringing down your own country or president, then go join the EU, by moving to France, and see if you really enjoy it there, if you do, STAY!
———–
Sorry dude, but in this country, we express ourselves within our freedom of speech, associate with our free association rights, publish freely in the press, and petition our government to CHANGE the things we don’t like, so the country will be more like we want it to be. No one has to move away, unless they want to.
On the other hand, it sounds like you’d prefer a dictatorship, rather than a democratic republic, so maybe it is YOU who should move away! Look for the nearest military coup – maybe a perfect country for you. The leader speaks and anyone who disobeys is shot.
Of course, if you have your way, maybe that military dictatorship will soon be this country (as the freedoms I listed above are just about gone – thanks to people like you.)
tjallen
Jeb Stuart @
80
My conclusion for some time.
There might just be a real revolution in this country if he does. We the people should stop him. They would have to start a draft for that big of a fight and the American public will not accept a draft. China would more than likely get involved in any war with Iran coming to Iran’s rescue. That’s a war we could not possibly win.