
There have been any number of signs of internecine warfare among factions within the GOP over the last couple of years. The Bush Administration — specifically the Cheney/neo-con faction — has pushed the libertarians, the strict constructionists, the more moderate financial conservatives, out of the party, bit by bit. I can’t tell you how many times I have heard from disenchanted conservatives who say "the party has left me," shaking their head at the extremist positions and the disengenuous fact-free arguments made to serve the agenda and the immediate need for strengthening a hold on short-term power, rather than the long-term interests of the party as a whole.
And it seems that it isn’t just the rank and file who are disgusted by the lack of continuity between public pronouncements of ethical positions, and private actions that thwart those very ethics…time and time again. Hypocrisy catches up eventually, and the Bush Administration has been shovelling the malarky pretty thick since day one.
And now the bill appears to be coming due — less than two months before the November elections.
Joe Scarborough has a column in the WaPo that succinctly sums up the internal debate that I have been hearings bits and pieces of from disenchanted conservatives:
I can’t help but feel sorry for my old Republican friends in Congress who are fighting for their political lives. After all, it must be tough explaining to voters at their local Baptist church’s Keep Congress Conservative Day that it was their party that took a $155 billion surplus and turned it into a record-setting $400 billion deficit.
How exactly does one convince the teeming masses that Republicans deserve to stay in power despite botching a war, doubling the national debt, keeping company with Jack Abramoff, fumbling the response to Hurricane Katrina, expanding the government at record rates, raising cronyism to an art form, playing poker with Duke Cunningham, isolating America and repeatedly electing Tom DeLay as their House majority leader?…
But that kind of give-and-take between presidents and members of Congress ended once Clinton retired to Chappaqua. For the next five years, Republicans on the Hill would do little more than rubber-stamp Bush’s domestic and international agenda because lawmakers were intimidated by his power and his popularity with the Republican base.
Even when the administration would not give generals the troops they needed to win the war in Iraq, Republican leaders did nothing. When the president refused to veto a single spending bill while the deficit spiraled upward, Republican leaders looked away. And when chaos was reigning in the streets of New Orleans and across the Gulf Coast in Katrina’s horrific aftermath, Republican leaders remained mute.
That silence — proof that it is better to be feared than loved in politics — has had devastating results. The United States is more divided than ever, our leaders are despised around the world, our fiscal situation is catastrophic and congressional approval ratings are the lowest ever. Since nothing sharpens the mind like a political hanging, Republican leaders in the Senate and House are finally considering doing what effete newspaper editorialists have suggested for years: throwing Bush overboard.
Of course, the mere suggestion makes some Republican loyalists shudder. Being a faithful follower of Brother Bush has long been synonymous with loving Jesus, supporting the troops and taking a stand against sodomy. But no more. Many of the conservatives who put Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich in power are counting the days until Bush goes to Crawford for good….
So, let me get this straight: according to Joe Scarborough, and honestly according to the grumbling that I have been hearing for years from disgusted Republicans, President Bush is a failure who sucks at his job.
But Republicans in Congress, who have known this for years, haven’t bothered to call him on it for the good of the American public because they were too afraid of the personal consequences to themselves politically to do so for the good of the American public? Is that about it? And that includes sending brave men and women off to an ill-planned occupation in Iraq and a failure to finish the job in Afghanistan because…what?!?…they feared that the Bush Administration would call them names in public.
Is it me, or is the Republican party run by a bunch of eighth grade student council wannabes?
Sure, George Bush has been a horrible President. But true character means that you stand up for what is right in the face of overwhelming obstacles because it is the right thing to do…not just because you now fear for your political hide and the President provides a convenient target. That’s crass opportunism, not ethical responsibility, and ought to be labeled as such.
Washington Monthly provides a plethora of arguments from conservatives of various stripes on why the Republican party does not deserve to maintain power after the November elections. It is interesting to read through all of the arguments in all of the articles therein, based on various and sundry conservative "principles" that seem newly rediscovered as an tactical maneuver for an election season attempt at framing the high ground for some of the writers. But there is a tinge of disgust and regret and, in a few cases, anger that their long-voiced warnings were not heeded for the good of the party way back when it might have actually done some good. (Bruce Fein’s article is a particularly good read, I think.)
If ever there were a need for standing up as one, with a strong voice, it would be with regard to the Bush Administration’s and the Republican Congress’ utter disregard over the last few years for the importance of the rule of law, the separation of powers, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
You need look no further for an example of that idiocy that John Yoo’s flatulant, self-serving, attempt at reputation enhancement op-ed in today’s New York Times for a hollow attempt at after-the-fact justification of poorly reasoned propping up of legalistic maneuvers without foundation. Pathetic. And supremely transparent. How a professor of Constitutional law can put forth arguments based on such flawed and nonexistent precedents is beyond me — the intellectual maneuvers required to be this dishonest with oneself…well, let’s just say that Cirque du Soleil might want to add a new act.
Dick Cheney and David Addington and Scooter Libby’s obsession with creating a unilateral executive is showing — again — and no one can even bother to ask at this point whether Republicans will stand up for the Constitution in the face of such a vast imperial power grab for the Presidency, can they? I mean, honestly, they haven’t up until now, why should any of them be trusted with that responsibility any longer?
Do you trust anyone in the GOP to keep America’s interests first and foremost ahead of their own grab at power no matter the cost? After the last five plus years, honestly, how could you — because their actions speak volumes, where their copious words ring hollow time and time again.
If the GOP wants to blame someone for all of the failures of the past few years, they need only look in their mirrors. Glenn has an update on the Specter bill on FISA, and how the Senator is lying — again — about the implications of its potential passage for all of America.
A whole lot of people in America do not trust George Bush. Moreover, they don’t trust all of his many enablers in the GOP to provide any real means of check or balance to the excesses of the Bush White House. And why should they?
Ultimately, it’s all of the lies — both the ones to the public and the ones to themselves — for which the entire GOP ought to be held to account. And none of those can be explained away by blaming George Bush. There is a bill that is coming due in November. Here’s hoping that the GOP gets stuck with the entire check…they ran up the tab all by themselves in control of both Houses of Congress and the White House. The GOP ought to be the ones who pay for it.
Had enough?
(Graphics love to Draw!)
UPDATE: C&L has a clip of Scarborough explaining why he thinks conservatives are revolting.
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Morning, Christy.
etch-a-sketch art
…here too
They’ll try to run away from miserable failure, but keep reminding everyone about the past five years of enabling.
Say “So, are you claiming you were a victim of Stockholm Syndrome?”
That’ll piss ‘em off.
What exactly is it that the Bush Administration has on Republican congressman that keeps them towing the line at this late stage of the game?
I think the whole rubberstamp meme is starting to have some effect. Congressional Republicans are getting scared of the election turning into a national referendum on Bush. That’s why you’re starting to see some sham bickering, to give the illusion of sham oversight.
undecided at 4 — I’ve been thinking about that myself. I think a large part of it is the consolidation of power that Rove enjoys controlling a larger share of the donor base — he’s worked very hard to amass a purse strings chokehold over the last few years, and that creates fear in a money-based electoral process.
Christy, of all the terrific posts you’ve written,and there have been many, this one is perhaps most desering of massive spotlighting. It gets the whole picture, and uses the Repubs to make the arguments we’ve all been making.
I have one favor to ask. Would you consider ending the Scarborough quote one sentence earlier? That way we don’t spotlight a gratuitous and completely unfair slam at Carter? Just a thought.
Great piece.
Unfortunately, the thing that will emerge out of the Repub “implosion” is the type of soundbites that McCain tends to make. The ADD public will only remember that “straight talking” JM stood up to the preznut and said something vague about not supporting torture, kinda sorta.
I’m sure I’m missing it, but why isn’t at least one of the potential 08 Dems SCREAMING the simple statement “torture not acceptible”?
Sigh. I’ll have my coffee now…
I’m sure these evil bastards don’t see it this way because they’re all sociopaths, but what it boils down to is they would rather have people killed (American soldiers, sick people without healthcare, children caught in a civil war, etc.) than admit any mistake.
Christy,
Hello from Las Vegas.
The same thought crossed my mind as I sat in the audience of Zumanity. The contortionists reminded me of the Bush criminal defense team, aka the DoJ.
cleter at 5 — well, as you know, I’ve been a big “rubber stamp” meme proponant for a while now. I think it has legs — and is easily used for explanation over a whole host of issues. And it works as a quick talking point for sound bites as well as a longer explanation point for op-ed pieces. In short, it flies well over a cross-section of the public, including undecideds, and it ought to be used more often. As in constantly between now and November by every Democratic talking head on the planet. But, that’s just me…
OFG at 10 — How is the birthday trip to Sin City working for your son? Hope you guys are having lots of fun and winning lots as well. :) (Oooh, haven’t seen Zumanity as yet, but I’ve heard it’s good. Luv cirque du soleil.)
Scarecrow at 77 — for you? It’s done. Refresh your screen. :)
Nice posting, Christy.
IMHO, the struggle between Bush and McCain and the petulance in the Rose Garden are Kabuki theater, diversion and misdirection for the mainstream media.
In early 2002, on advice from Gonzales, Bush put up a sophomoric facade to facilitate a good-faith defense against the war-crimes prosecution should the need arise. With its Hamdan decision, the Supreme Court stepped in and threw that nonsense out the window. So now Bush is grasping for the good-faith loophole that John McCain wrote for him in the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005. For details, see: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/17/114555/933
Great post, Christy. I wish that spotlight thingy had an “Aim” category for “Democrats Running for Office, or in Charge of Coordinating Same.” Maybe we can figger it out our own selves *cough* Chuck Schumer *cough* Rahm Emmanuel *cough* your local candidate. Howard Dean, I believe, already gets this.
Yes, it is time to take them to account this November, but unfortunately the same voting concerns (read fraud potental) exist:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00214.html
Whatever they disagree about, they still agree on the best ways to perpetrate electoral fraud. Let’s hope 2006 doesn’t give us a Diebold Congress.
I agree with Scarecrow – we need to spotlight this post EVERYWHERE. By doing so, we can prevent the republicans in Congress from cutting and running from their own long and well-established records of Bush lapdoggery.
Christy at 11
It does seem to work. One of Katherine Harris’s primary opponents–and the guy got about 30% of the Republican primary vote–was jibber-jabbering about an independent voice in Congress, and so forth. He essentially called Katherine Harris a rubberstamp. And a third of the conservative Republican primary voters bought it.
Undecided said “What exactly is it that the Bush Administration has on Republican congressman that keeps them towing the line at this late stage of the game?”
I’ve long believed that the wiretapping program is as much about managing votes and expressed opinions as it is about “terrorism”.
Dadhusker at 16 — I saw that this morning, but haven’t had a chance to give it a thorough read as yet. The little bit I scanned was horrid, though. SIGH
Thanks, Christy. Hit the spotlight, gang!
Near EPU land last threat:
What Dems need to be worrying about is why, given the fact that the Bush Administration and its Republican/neocon supporters (including JoeL) have brought us to this horrendous moment — losing an arguably necessary war and losing an unnecessary war that they lied us into, there is not an overwhelming clamor for throwing the Republicans out of office. Why are we still wondering if we can even gain only 15 seats in the house, and why is retaking the Senate at best a remote possibility?
I can’t think of a stronger indictment of the Democratic leadership and their pathetic message than the current low prospects for a massive repudiation of the Republican regime. It’s like they’re throwing the election.
It makes me very happy to see conservatives starting to speak out against the regime. I know a few who have never agreed with Bush, the same who educated me about his terrible reign in texas and abstained from voting in ‘00. Myself and these friends even voted for Kerry in ‘04 despite being true believing conservatives who knew we were “wasting” our votes in a deep red state. But even then we all knew there was no real point in trying to convince the indoctrinated repubs of their favored candidates short comings. Though vague in ‘00, the writing was clearly on the wall, like a neon sign, in ‘04 but they didn’t care to look.
Joe Scarborough is a prominent pundit among conservatives, sure he’s no rush or hannity, but respected nonetheless. Hopefully since he has stopped shilling for the pathocracy others will follow.
Bush will have reduced the republican party to rubble by ‘08 and it will hopefully take a generation to recover. The conservative philosophy, which I do honestly believe in, is completely shamed and slandered by Bush’s lies. No penalty is severe enough in my eyes for his wanton betrayal of those who believed in an idea that he falsely claimed to represent.
McCain is the Punditocracy’s crack.
Mornin’…
Yesterday I posted about sections of Bush’s “legal clarity” bill, the one he’s so petulant about:
___
I just been reading the exact “clarity in law” bill submitted by Bush, the one he had such a tirade over yesterday during his Pissy Presser throwdown with David Gregory. Excerpts:
_____
_____
Really all we need to know out of the 86 pages. A major CYA for all the torture he’s authorized thus far and wants to continue.
http://balkin.blogspot.com/Bus…..s.Bill.pdf
_____
I’ve now downloaded and read the whole thing. While I’m no lawyer, and it’d take time to chase down and review all of the changes in other laws it proposes by incorporation, ya gotta perversely love the way they frame the issue up front:
___
Note “it generally is neither practicable nor appropriate for combatants like al Qaeda terrorists to be tried…”
Not “terrorist suspects” – Y’see, trials are just a formality Bush has gotta endure, because the world wouldn’t stand for his having all of them summarily executed or imprisoned for life without charge. We know that there’s a huge false positive ratio among BushWar detainees, so this is total bullshit on the front end of this odious piece of legislative crap. In Bush’s feeble but devious mind, they’re all already guilty anyway.
Don’t let this blatant, sophomoric Straw Man / Red Herring goulash go unchallenged.
_
undecided @
4
Oh, I don’t know. Possibly a lot of dirt that can be gleaned through illegal eavesdropping? That would be the stick to Christy’s carrot.
The problem is that Republicans have only been in charge of everything for 6 years. Vote Republican . Let them finish the job!
“We are the ones we’ve been waiting for.” —The Elders, Oraibi, Arizona Hopi Nation
Republican Party=The slow learner party. I never trusted this mentally dented faux cowboy, blue-blooded boy King.
I gave him a pass after 9/11 up until the moment the Iraq war was laid on the table.
Me, I’m just a dopey NH boy with a few years of college and lots of blue collar work experience.
What is the excuse for all of the intellectual punditocracy and the lawyered masses in DC?
-GSD
I think this is right on. There are a lot of Republicans trying desperately to be “independent” right now. But in the end they will give Bush exactly what he wants. McCain, that chump, is already talking about compromise. Meanwhile they keep the Dems on the sidelines in the debate until it’s too late.
David Ehrenstein @
24
After all of the crap coming from McCain, isn’t it time the punditocracy wiped their crack?
-GSD
10-years ago I wouldn’t have believed it was a scam. After the last 6-years, I don’t think anything happens without careful planning.
Scam? Hell yes…
While I like to think the Repugs are dissolving from within I am also concerned that this isn’t just come brilliant Rovian move.
http://dontbealemming.com/2006…..adows.aspx
Posted by the Lemming Herder from Don’t Be A Lemming!
I agree that Spotlight would become much more powerful if it also had email addresses for all politicians and candidates for office, as well as all members/decision makers for the DSCC/DNC/DLC, etc. – AND progressive type special interest groups like NARAL, Sierra Club and so forth. If anyone knows how to get in touch with the folks at spotlight, we should encourage them to add these features to their already remarkable website.
BobbyG — thanks for bringing back the actual language. I’d add to your point by saying it’s not just the false positives that should concern us. Even if one assumes that each detainee is a genuine bad guy, a mass murderer, it does not follow that the procedures of the UCMJ are neither “practicable or appropriate.” No one has made that case.
This is just Bush/Yoo/Gonzo, Cheney/Addington/Haynes arguing that they don’t want to use those procedures because they don’t want to. There has been no basis given for this, other than their assumption that these detainees don’t deserve fair treatment.
windje @ 28
Yep. RevDeb’s favorite saying. It’s scary being the grownups.
I hope people of that base will listen to Scarborough… ( did I say that… I am listening to Scarborough/OMG) . My birthday is in November. My parents are elderly republicans ( don’t apologize) but I asked them this for my BD, either vote D or don’t go. Please do not continue to support what is such a colossal failure of America. So I am getting two R’s not to vote. I encourage everyone else to use whatever tactic necessary to eliminate the trash from the big house!
More, follow-on to my #25 -
____
“Best and most reliable”? Hey, if it’s all we got, it’s good enough, ‘eh? These fuckers are all already guilty anyway. No objective evidentiary standards need apply, ‘cuz these are simply show trials.
_
Here’s another way bushco and his appointees are keeping America and the world safe:
first they did it to the military, now to the intelligence agencies…..it’s all about money, different rules, money, political cover, money, degrading morale, money.
http://www.rawstory.com/showou…..-headlines
You know, I have always wondered how the Republicans could keep this oil, water and gasoline mix of neocons, fiscal conservatives and evangelicals together this long.
Election maneuver. Snakes.
What I find as quite funny is that many Republicans want to distance themselves from Bush and Bush and Rove are intent on hanging themselves around the parties neck like the rotten albatross they are.
Bush is close to rupturing in public. He is starting to act like the wife of President Logan in 24.
Start worrying if Pickles shows up at a press conference instead of George.
-GSD
Wonderful soothing words this morning, thanks.
scarecrow @ 35
You got it exactly.
BG
That Yoo article made me want to barf.
My son just flew in from Denver (to Logan) and was telling me of being searched – funny, his search&rescue backback confused the security people – they had to ask where his water bottle was. He had perfectly good water thrown out, saw women’s mascara and perfume being thrown out, so he asked them why they didn’t wave the stuff in front of the explosives sniffer machine. They didn’t know.
Feeling the Christy love!
Re: Yoo and intellectual dishonesty. After I read the Ann Althouse piece in NYT I think I figured this out. From my LTE to NYT after it
W and his phony cronies are going down.
http://www.markfiore.com/animation/phony.html
Terrorist Timothy McVeigh got a regular old trial. He did not get a military trial, even though, since he was not in uniform, he was clearly an unlawful combatant. Terrorist Eric Rudolph got regular old due process. The 1993 WTC terrorist bombers got regular old trials. Why can’t all the terror suspects in custody now just get regular old trials, using regular old mechanisms? Why do Republicans have to re-invent the wheel? Susupected drug dealers apprehended in the War on Drugs don’t get weird-ass cobbled-together tribunals. Why do War on Terror suspects need them?
Christy Hardin Smith @
12
Boy is still sleeping, so that means something, right? Zumanity rubbed heavily on eroticism and escape from the norms. It didn’t quite fall into the female impersonator shows recommended by FDL commentors, but they embraced all forms of sexuality in a stunningly eyegazmic performance.
Best line:
“Two men–they can’t procreate, but they sure can decorate.”
Republicans = “Party Above Country”
We need to slap rethugs with this at every turn. It cuts the heart out of their “patriotic republicans” myth.
New 3-word slogan – like “cut and run” that the attention span challenged MSM can grab onto.
But, the thing is, it’s true – dems can cite case after case after case where it applies.
Republicans would squeal like pigs at this label.
GSD:
Ahh, all along I thought it was the rapture; now I get it…. It’s the Rupture, stupid.
Updated above — C&L has a clip of Scarborough from Saturday explaing why he thinks conservatives are revolting.
shame:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ican_hands
Christy Hardin Smith @ 53
You didn’t actually mean to say it that way, did you *G*
Kathryn in MA @ 46
My cousin, a TSA employee, says he and his colleagues refer to their agency’s acronym as “Throw Scissors Away.”
How many more innocent people will die from their policies, even before this election? And until November 2008…almost too sickening to contemplate.
motherlowman @ 9
Democrats want to save lives;
Republicans want to save face.
BobbyG @ 44
If there are no bogeymen in Gitmo, we can’t scare anyone. I think they’ve all watched Monsters, Inc. too many times.
My suspicion is that few of the detainees have much if any information, and were probably fully debriefed of everything they know in weeks or months. Sure, they have a few guys with stripes, but not hundreds. My guess would be no more than two dozen.
But having these guys under wraps in the can blunts the conjecture that they really aren’t doing much of anything that’s effective against terrorists with them.
“The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgement of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist.” Churchill
Maneuver? Yes. Desperate maneuver.
Rove used to be at least translucent and occasionally opaque (to his admirers and a very few others) in his shady dealings. His maneuverings are transparent, now.
Hard core Republicans (the Bush base) at war with itself? I don’t think so. These people are on a “mission”. A very frightening one. They’ll NEVER give up what they consider to be the good-fight. No matter what the outcome this fall and in 2008, they’ll always with us.
cleter @ 49
Because Pissy Boy SAYS SO!
_
sofistic at 55 — hehehehe ooops.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 53
Now that’s what I call a double entendre!
Soros on CNN now.
True conservatives and neo-con, right wing religious nut Republicans are very different animals.
The GOP long ago ceased to be a political party. It has instead become a criminal conspiracy.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 53
In this sentence, is revolting a verb or an adjective?
Bobby @25 et seq
On the one hand Hadley was trying to use the argument that these guys are not “battlefield captures” to justify his position, but at the same time the legislation (and prior arguments advanced as to ‘why military commissions’) relies in part upon
In a time of ongoing armed conflict, it generally is neither practicable nor appropriate for combatants like al Qaeda terrorists to be tried before tribunals that include all of the procedures associated with courts-martial.
___
Nazi or Communist or Bushzi.
_
Re this:
from the J Scarb article. Good thing he didn’t mention the name of the church, because somebody’d have to notify the IRS.
angie — Wolf Blitzer is doing a hatchet job on Soros. It’s obvious Blitzer has not read the book, nor even a good summary of it. Instead he wants to focus on and criticize Soros for one sentence showing Bush uses similar propaganda tactics as Hitler/Communists. Pathetic.
Mary 67 -
Conflation and obfuscation is the only Game They Got.
Bush is by far the least qualified person to ever hold the Office of president in my 60-plus years. He’s a national disgrace.
_
Novakula doesn’t like being called out as the liberty-snuffing douchebag he is;
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/17/novak-stewart/
scarecrow: Wolfie = AIPAC
As if Soros wouldn’t know from fascism…
angie @ 54
We are back to the point, remember when the first round of “the revolt of the generals” was occurring…..nothing has gotten better, everything has gotten worse.
So now there are new generals and higher ups…I think I saw something about the number being around 26.
Plus the AP, the media, the internets are all being targeted by Bush and Rove.
Also, the world is getting sick and tired and they are repeating the Gingrich quote: “had enough?”
The two nations that are in the unqualified support column, UK and Israel are melting down. The UK is ready to stuff a crumpet up Blair’s ass and send him off to the Ilse of Elba…..Israel is still shocked that Hizbollah was able to change the number of days of resistance from a 6 day war to 34 day war…..
The US is bleeding tourists now.
Does anyone think that there is not some serious strategery going on amongst them poor and brown nations in Cuba this weekend?
The noose is tightening. The US must realize that. The end of the Bush will come, quicker if there is a serious repudiation in November….slower if Republicans are able to game the system…but writing is on the wall.
-GSD
If you compare the questions Wolf Blitzer asked George Soros to the questions he was asked here at Firedoglake, people might get the idea FDL was the journo organ and Blitzer was the game show host.
Usually it’s just noise when Blitzer and his type “interview” some goombah. But it’s so frustrating when they have an interesting, intelligent guest on and waste those precious minutes.
you’re right scarecrow– Leslie also sounded like an money middleman trying to pin George Soros down on “how much you gonna pay this time?”.
He was pathetically relentless on all the wrong subjects.
One small prediction: Watching President Poopy Pants yell at the White House press corps in the Rose Garden the other day, I got the distinct impression his anger was based in something real. He reminded me of a teenager whose parents have threatened to take away his car keys. I don’t know if the Republican revolt is staged or real, but either way look for Shrub, in his continuing efforts to dominate the news cycle between now and election day, to have a full-on meltdown.
O/T -
So, I’m all ramped up to come out of music retirement tomorrow night:
http://santafeandthefatcityhor…..-good.html
and the phone rings a few minutes ago, my Mother. Dad has just been 911′d from the nursing home to the ER in dire condition. Is this “it,” or yet another revolving door episode?
Jeesh. I got a mob planning to show up tomorrow, and have rehearsed some cats to perform with me.
May be on the red-eye outa here tonight.
_
John Boehner does not sound as if he’s rebelling against his master; Rove. Boehner is a nasty piece of work. A mere sanitized version of Tom Delay.
Christy . . .
It has occurred to me that the people BushCo has claimed are terrorists can’t be put on trial if the system wasn’t rigged. As a former prosecutor, wouldn’t you just scream if the cops used torture to extract a confession? The case would be tossed before you could even ask “what happened?” The bad guys would be back on the street and partying.
So Bush HAS to change the rules or he runs the risk of letting the bad guys out. But rather than change the rules, he’s ignoring them. Now it’s all catching up and the Repugs are panicking.
Am I reading this all wrong here?
angie – from your article:
It also doesn’t cover contractors and doesn’t prohibit CIA from rendering someone to a foreign power to torture.
It’s a very very good article and highlights the problems. Unending security detentions based on no evidence by people who can’t speak the language and with no rights to habeas or to hear the reasons for detention.
BobbyG — sending good thoughts your way; stay safe if you have to run.
Mary @
47
wonderful letter! However, if they print it, it’s very unlikely that anyone at OLC or Ms. Althouse will understand it. Way too subtle.
BobbyG at 77 — oh, I’m so sorry to hear that. Hope that things stablize — thoughts and prayers with you. Please let us know if there is anything any of us can do to help. (food, coffee, etc., wherever you end up in the next coupla days…)
Wonderful job Christy.
Definately Spotlight material.
Now for my tinfoil hat:
Both the Specter bill(NSA Eavesdropping) and the McCAin bill(torture) provide for retroactively removing jurisdiction from the Courts even for existing case.
The Spectre bill also retoactively makes the criminal acts of domestic spying retoactively legal.
IIRC the McCain bill similarly makes previous war crimes non prosecutable.
What if all this bruhaha is really just a smoke screen to make the American people clamor for legislation that in effect “pardons” Bushco for their crimes?
What if it is all kabuki?
Sigh.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 78
Does he wear a sanitary… nevermind.
I read a comment elsewhere that suggested that redefining the law on GC to allow torture could in itself be considered a war crime. Don’t know if that’s true, but maybe Congress needs to be told so, just to get their attention.
Republicans believe in the power of magical thinking – if you wish it hard enough, it will be true. The rest of us found out it didn’t work when we were children.
Steve Gilliard has a very good, thought-provoking piece up today on the issue of torture at
http://stevegilliard.blogspot……-pows.html
This on John Yoo is good for his inconsistency on Constitutional issues http://talkleft.com/new_archives/015752.html
And this is a biography of Benjamin Ferencz, the Nuremberg prosecutor who thinks that Bush and others should be tried for war crimes.
http://www.benferencz.org/bio.html
I don’t know if this isssue will just serve as diversion, as some suggest, to keep the focus off the administration’s attacks on the Constitution and their failures on so many other issues, but it does seem to me that it cuts to the core of the American values I was raised and schooled in
BobbyG -> Good thoughts to you.
BobbyG– good thoughts on their way to you!
BobbyG
Hang tough, man.
Many kind thoughts your way
Rayne, Christy, thanks.
Probably be in a holding pattern today till things clarify. My wife is scheduled to fly to Baton Rouge for work all week in the morning.
I am to rehearse with Adrian Garcia today for tomorrow night. Jeez…Havin’ a Murphy’s Law Moment.
_
Marines say that leadership is taking the ahrd right over the easy wrong. Since the 8th grade student council members never served, they wouldn’t know about this.
The difference between managers and leaders.
Well actually, Christy, I do trust one. Of course, at the moment he’s out campaigning for Democrats: http://www.petemccloskey.com/index.html
And Mary, affirmative action (also known as “viewpoint diversity”) is exactly how idiots like Yoo get hired. I suspect that any card-carrying member of the Federalist Society would be happy to tell you that Marbury was incorrectly decided and should never be used to strike down legislation of which they approve. *g*
Sometimes I get this vision of a staggering mutant elephant composed of three incompatible gene pools that is about to come down with a big thud, and explode into three wierd things.
– IM A CRUSTY RUSTY — 70 YEAR OLD CADGEY CODGER. LOOKING IN THE POT THESE PEOPLE GOT IN WILLINGLY, DONT YOU THINK THE CURRENT EFFORT TO GET THE TORTUNRE AMDENMENDS CODIFIED INTO LAW IS THE TAIL OF THE ELEPHANT THEY WILL NEED TO ABSOLVE BUSH AND HIS CABAL OR ANY RETROACTIVE PUNISHMENTS WHEN THE POT TURNS OVER AND THEY ARE IN A CIVILIAN SPOTLIGHT? HOW MANY MORE LAWS AND COURTS MUST THEY POLLUTE OR DISMANTLE TO SAVE THEMSELVES? IF MR, ROVE IS WORKING THIS, YOU CAN BET ITS ONE OF HIS TOP PRIOROTIES — WHILE HES ON STAGE WITH HIS DISTRACTIONS, HIS REAL WORK IS GETTING DONE. THE NSA HAD MORE THAN ALL THE DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSPEOPLES PHONE RECORDS IN IT — NO POLITICAN, JUDGE OR THE OTHER PERVERTS CAN SPEAK UP, SEEMS TO ME. //
BobbyG @ 38
And Ol’ Sixty’s Grift polishing dear Bushco’s faith based employment program.
Thanks, everyone.
_
BobbyG — hope all turns out well. Best wishes to you and yours.
Being a Republican is like being a socially acceptable alcoholic. Whatever else you are, at least you’re not a damn addict!
Or at tlast that’s how I think it has been labelled.
Bobby G,
Wishing you and yours the best.
-GSD
Mary, I think it’s a very good article too; it is chilling.
Here’s this from Fisk who spells out the shift in our military’s creed and it is spelled out at the link.
http://www.informationclearing…..e14993.htm
BarbaraB – it did indeed hit me, just as I read Althouse, that was what was going on. I don’t think even the Federalist Society has a big “pro Executive torture and murder of innocents with no evidence” wing, so Yoo is a double diversity blessing.
Scarecrow – that was only a part – they emailed me “rules” back after it was already sent and I was definitely too wordy to ever hit print. ;) Still, I co-directed it to Liptack and wanted to make sure he was aware when he quoted someone like Althouse as an expert, that she had no concept of a Motion for Summary judgment and how the Judge is not allowed to “make up” arguments for Gov that it never raised.
Humm, what would it take to add an accellerant[sp?] to the internal stresses of the three components of the Republican party?
An election manuever for sure. The tough talking John McCain sold his soul down the river and Specter acted as if he might take a stand — but then true to form with the Repubs, he then went back to the lackey that he is.
It is too bad that most people can not believe and/or choose not to believe that their government could be this dishonest. But, I fervently hope that the truth gets through the clutter that is the MSM, and they wake up to the fact that the government is really that corrupt and vote for change come November.
AP journalist held by US military in Iraq for months with no charges.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..29611.html
We are arresting/detaining them without due process there so we don’t have to arrest/detain them without due process here.
Except we’ve already done it here, too.
egregious @
57
THAT will make a great bumper sticker. Thank you!
The comment on changing the GC to allow torture:
Plea to Congress on Torture
Grandpa Delbert, could you do us a favor and take off the caps lock? ALL CAPS IS LOUD and hard to read too. Thanks!
Oppie, LOL! Well, they didn’t find his sissors (in the medical kit) or his Leatherman! But they threw out the water.
Bobby G – Hang in there and mucho thanks for that link yesterday and today.
The echo of “Why?” reverberates seemingly endlessly in our discussions of Junya and his lackey Repug party cohorts.
Might it be because they are a party who succeeds at nothing but “Failure”, and have successfully promoted their most qualified candidate in this regard?
Such is the useful idiot they have placed into their (and our) highest position of power, a person who is the ultimate embodiment of “failure”!
The old adage that “nothing breeds success better than success” should also have its counterpart; namely that “nothing breeds failure better than failure”.
And the Repugs have bred well, indeed!
BobbieG – Love to you and your family.
Mad Dogs:
And the Repugs have bred well, indeed!
Eeuuu.. Please don’t bring up such an image in my mind. Breeding Republicans; must be a scary sight indeed. Ick.
Anybody got the bill number to the Graham/Lindsay/Levin offering? I need to read it thoroughly tonight and send another missive to Levin.
Just got a couple of replies on Friday from him, too; an explanation about his position on Joe-nertia, and a thank you for support on his work on the Senate Subcommittee for Investigations. Very mixed feelings.
sofistic — re: breeding of Repugs
It’s like watching crocodiles and sharks mating, really. Not something you want to see up close and personal.
GSD @ 74,
Te writing certainly is on the wall. I hope people will heed it.
Scary times we live in.
WAtching the shows today, and John Roberts interviewing David Sanger on CNN, it is interesting that no one in the trad-med is picking up on the fact that a principal motivation for the WH push and urgency on the warrantless surveillance and military tribunal bills is their concern over war crimes exposure. I can’t imagine the right-wing pundits would not not be all over this issue if we were talking about Clinton. Is it that they don’t get it? Or that they are afraid to go close to this explosive issue — and why not?
/loud snickering/
Scarborough thinks Newtie and the “Great I Read My Lines Really Well, Don’t I?” are the good guys.
Just shows you how fucked up the Republican Party and the country have been for decades.
Has he forgotten the debt statistics for Reagan’s term? All due to the same damned thing going on now–a huge and unnecessary increase in military spending combined with tax cuts for the rich and for corporations. If anyone’s forgotten, the debt was $980 billion at the end of Carter’s term. At the end of Reagan’s it was a smidgen under $3 trillion.
Same as they ever was.
BarbaraB @ 93
McCloskey wrote an interesting essay for the Sacramento Bee regarding parallels between the Bush and Nixon administrations
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0717-19.htm
sofistic @ 104
I really think the accelerant is in place. We must not grant retroactive immunity (it’s the fuse) and pressers like Jr’s on Friday and last week with Matt Lauer are the flint sparks. just a thought*g*
When President Carter signed the Panama Canal Treaty in 1977, I think it was one of the finest acts of statesmanship in U.S. history. That act was far more than just a treaty signing. It was symbolic of America acting as a true leader in the world and was emblematic of this country’s zeal in the pursuit of human rights. And then there is the little matter of Carter working so tirelessly for peace between the peoples of Palestine and Israel. Carter is truly and American treasure. I am going to send this man a note. Thanking him for his service to this nation. For at 82 years of age this October 1st., who knows how long we will have him with us?
GRANDDAD DELBERT @ 95
Nice rant, Granddad, welcome. Just a little style tip, assuming you’re new to commenting. All caps is difficult to read, plus it’s the written equivalent of yelling. I hope we hear more from you, at a slightly lower volume. ;)
But where did this cult of cruelty begin?
It’s always just a hairsbreadth from the surface, especially with the young and armed under stress. That’s why the rules are so important. But it fires the base to rant about the war, about Iraq-9/11, Iraq-9/11, Iraq-9/11 etc to where the young kids (and older officers who should know better) feed on the outrage against “them”
But the problem with the GWOT is that the “them” is so hard to identify, especially with young soldiers in the field who are being told, alternatively, that the US is there as liberators and the Iraqis love them, and at the same time that all Iraqis are the “them” (this is creeping into AFghanistan as well).
Then they have ieds, still no comfort with language and customs, more and more people who – with more and more legitimacy – quite clearly hate them, no progress, the victory of levelled cities leading to the defeat of ever worsening insurgency, and all around, dislike and distrust and commanders and pundits and polticians and chaplins and brothers in arms constantly reciting that the only things Arabs/Muslims/Ragheads, whatever, respond to are humiliation and fear, and who survives that environment without being willing to commit atrocities? With a Bushian feeling of self-righteousness?
No armed services could last long as a moral and professional unit with a leader like Bush.
((((((Bobby and family))))))
scarecrow @ 117
I think that if they did go close, they would have to admit to the country that many, many serving in the military and the intelligence agencies would also be liable under the war crimes act and then how could they possibly justify their unending support for the wars and the best military in the world?
Otherwise, it is inexplicable to me.
{{{{{{{BobbyG and his pappy}}}}}}}
Emergencies never pick convenient times, do they?
Oklahoma Kiddo — and when Carter signed the Panama treaty, he was vilified by the right for giving way strategic US assets and endangering national security. Well, 30 years later, ships still go through the canal every day. And I haven’t seen lots of stories in the press lately about how the Panamanians hate the US and are sending terrorists to blow up ships, embassies and towers. Yeah, that Carter sure undermined security, compared to . . .
BobbyG checking back in. Y’all are the best! Thanks.
My last red-eye foray to Florida, in August:
http://santafeandthefatcityhor…..d-eye.html
_
scarecrow @ 117
How do I spotlight this comment to every media outlet in the directory? *s*
Graham/Lindsay/Levin offering
Are you wanting the Graham-Warner bill (that they are adding McCain in with?)
It’s here Warner Graham bill
Here is the Thomas bills and resolutions page, but I don’t know what to search for wrt Rayne’s question.
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/bills_res.html
Dadhusker @
16
Hi Dadhusker, we were just talking about this on the Talking Heads thread.
HotFlash @
202
How in the world did John Yoo get a teaching position at a progressive university like Berkeley? And Ann Althouse at the University of Wisconsin?
What the hell are the Deans at those schools thinking? Is this some halfass attempt at ‘diversity?’
Eureka Springs, AR @ 128
I suggest you spotlight Christy’s article, which has been updated. Then, in the comment section of the spotlight, make the same point (and you can probably write it better).
Bobby G, please add mine to everybody else’s good wishes and hugs.
cleter, would you please email me again — I somehow got your FDL handle mentally separated from your email addy, dang it! Same goes to any other Florida Firedog who hasn’t heard back from me since we first connected via email. I’m lotuslander AT cfl DOT rr Dot com, remember. Scottfree and other new FL friends, please join us in planning a get-together, if you like.
friend of the blog, I was chatting with my mom’s dear old “sister-friend” (age 92, deep-red Mississippian) the other day, and though we talk politics gingerly if at all, she also said that she’s just not going to vote this time, because she “cain’t trust a one of ‘em anymore!” I’ll take that as more than I’d hoped for.
Christy, I can’t fathom what keeps those DC Goopers so quiescent, unless it’s just that they’re that decadent a party by now. Earlier this morning, I linked to this incredible St. Pete Times story on the intramural smearing of their two dirtbags running to succeed Jeb. And of course, any state party that stands for batshit-barking Alligator Bag as its Senate candidate is as far gone as she is.
Even Rupert Murdoch’s Times of London is down with it prominently this morning:
They’re moribund old fuckers being asphyxiated by their own rot.
Pity ’tis, we can’t trust the DC Dems to be much healthier. If you haven’t seen this from NYT’s Week in Review section today, I recommend if for nothing more than a cackle over its graphic:
What Would the Democrats Do?
Christy sez:
That sounds like about the right level of emotional maturity, yes.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 128
Crib it for your personalized part.
I would say the sitting Democrats are just as bad. Afraid of losing their jobs. Better to be a sitting politician with little power than a private citizen with none.
BobbyG—Hugs to you and your family.
CBS website has posted Bob Schieffer’s closing comments on this a.m. Face the Nation — how did Bush get himself into this mess?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..5685.shtml
helina handbasket @ 8
Read my mind.thanks
scarecrow at 22 –
“I can’t think of a stronger indictment of the Democratic leadership and their pathetic message than the current low prospects for a massive repudiation of the Republican regime. It’s like they’re throwing the election.”
WE (LIBERAL BLOGGERS) ARE THROWING THE ELECTION, TOO.
If we lose this country, it will be for two reasons:
The cowardice of our Democratic representatives
The failure of liberal blogger-activists to reach out to regular Americans. We hang out with each other, and hold “low information voters” in contempt.
These are extremely well-meaning people (my neighbors) with a dedication to their country as pure as any liberal’s. Their decisions are often flawed because they’re based on LIMITED INFORMATION. (Has the press done its job to inform them??)
There are a lot of brains in the left-wing blogosphere. Why aren’t we thinking of more ways to reach out to, educate, and enable this very large group of decent Americans and critically important swing voters?
And Christy I think this is some of your best and most impassioned writing to date. At least from where I sit. Thank You.
Supposin’ Bush gets his way with his torture manifesto, then down the road is captured by one of those “terrists” he sees everywhere, and is imprisoned and interrogated under the rules he insists on, is that Karma?
BobbyG, my prayers are with you and your family. Windje at 58, thank you for that quote from Churchill. Great post, Christy! We need to keep hammering this point, over and over, at our fellow Americans — that the Republican Congress, by its cowardice and inability to stand up to Bush, has gotten Americans in Iraq killed.
Scarburrow finally got something right, these conservatives are revolting…………
Christy Hardin Smith @ 53
…and the king is a fink!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 79
I’m reserving judgment on the “sanitized” part. At this point, Boehner just hasn’t had as much time in the spotlight.
We need to apply what we’ve learned from their scandals. If we told the Republicans in Congress and the Whitehouse that there was a golf tournament in Scotland and that they needed to get on the plane, we could just fly them to Brussels. As soon as they got off the plane, they would be arrested for war crimes and taken to the Hague for trial. It does not matter what the U.S. law definition of war crimes is it’s the International Law definition that counts. Free golf tournament! Right this way.
HOPIE!
Dang, grrrl, I was just about to go stir up another posse to look for you again!
How are you and Doc? Has your cold given up yet? Is Doc getting any rest yet? Can I interest you in a little brunchy drinky?
P.S. Have you heard anything from li’l dog lately?
Jan — I don’t know how one can read firedoglake, kos, Crooks and Liars, Glenn Greenwald, The Next Hurray, Bilmon, Atrios, etc etc etc, plus hundreds of local/regional blogs like Connecticut Bob, MyLeftNutmeg, etc, etc, etc, without realizing the progressive blogging community is doing everything they can think of to do what you suggest . . . and more. The more difficult question is, if this is not enough, what does that mean?
looseheadprop @
85
Kabuki is a subtle and elegant art form. This posturing and false rivalries for entertainment and moola is WWE.
My take is that it doesn’t really matter, they will do what they want one way or another. I believe it is a matter of cost — how much pressure/payback/blackmail are they willing to spend on this issue? They are just haggling the price down.
Scarecrow’s 151 last line scared me. Red alert should be activated.
scarecrow @
140
In other words, 9/11 has come and gone already. Rover and Bush don’t have a wave to ride, they have a puddle to mop up.
-GSD
Bobby G at 78
Along with others I wish you the best outcome possible. Additionally let me offer Dr. Turtle’s medical accumen if you have questions. I hear so many, many stories (everyday in fact) about the critical care experience for patients as well as doctors.
If you have ANY questions about your father’s condition or his care, please don’t hesitate to email me and you can speak with Dr. T. OK?
Best to you Bobby G.
GSD @ 154
If you look at NOLA and the Gulf Coast, they aren’t that proficient at mopping….
EvilDrPuma @ 148
I think it was more than ten years ago, Mother Jones magazine did an article on the 10 Most Horrible Republicans That Are Going to Ruin Everything. Maybe that wasn’t the title. But Boehner was included in the group.
The Pres talks about 14 high value detainees, but the wider problem is over 14,000 detainees we’re holding world wide. At least a large majority are likely wrongly taken/held in the first place.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmp…..an_hands_3
OT – from Rood at the Muckraker –
Former top aide to Hayden(NSA) Under Investigation re Campaign Contributions
Here’s an interesting piece – I wonder if Hayden thought about it when he was testifying to Congress:
Mr. Schieffer and his colleagues had more than a little to do with the mess Bush is in.
Lotus-flowah
I’m coming along, been working and struggling a bit from being ‘out of condition’ from my virus. But no worries. Dr. T is so over-worked (sleeping now had to go to the hospital at 4:30 AM, just got home, hasn’t had a day off in forever). But this too shall pass. Hope you are well and i would love a bloody, if its not too much trouble ;)
Well, well, well. When Jr. Bush asks “Why isn’t the media showing you the good story?”
Answer: Because he condones detention of just about anyone, including the press.
The U.S. military in
Iraq has imprisoned an Associated Press photographer for five months, accusing him of being a security threat but never filing charges or permitting a public hearing.
snip
Hussein is one of an estimated 14,000 people detained by the U.S. military worldwide — 13,000 of them in Iraq. They are held in limbo where few are ever charged with a specific crime or given a chance before any court or tribunal to argue for their freedom.
snip
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..r_detained
The center is not holding.
-GSD
I actually disagree with this line:
There is a lot of precinct work going on, phone banking, neighborhood walking. Hosting coffees and inviting the “red” neighbors. And much more, of course.
I suspect that accusation is based in a stereotype that doesn’t hold up in the reality-based world.
Bobby G,
SO hard, strength to you. Your mom is lucky to have you, this must be so hard on her. Peace.
About a month ago, I recall reading that the Admin granted ‘permission’ to GOP candidates to distance themselves from the Chimp. Didn’t thing that they would ‘allow’ outright disagreement.
Bobby G – thinking of you.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 6
You know I think the stinkpot is deeper than the money issue. All the talk aboout pardon’s and retro-active laws tells me that the stink goes from the bottom right up to the top. There’s a reason we’re calling the house a “sewer”.
This is a little OT, but it is a link to “Political Friendster,” a database of connections among political people. This particular page is devoted to the Bush family. For a taste of the Bush family string of bankruptcies and other broken stuff left in their wake, explore the bankruptcy thread. Then go to their home page and explore other people.
http://www.politicalfriendster…..;images=on
Jan at 142 –
Your framing of this talk here/talk there came across to me as either/or, which isn’t the way I’m living it, and far as I can tell, isn’t the way anybody else here is, either.
The tureen of ideas we keep bubbling here nourishes us not only “here at the stove” but also throughout all our contacts with the wider world. Of course it spurs our activism directly, but it also works more subtly:
Last night, as I dined out with friends, I was sharing some of the thoughts FDL has helped me conceive, and pretty soon our whole party was talking along the same lines. But after a bit, I fell quiet just to listen for a few. Lo and behol’, the two tables nearest ours had apparently picked up bits and pieces of our talk — and now they too were busy fussing about BushCo!
Talk aboutcher viral.
That’s far from the best or only example I could give you, just my freshest . . .
Hate to say it, but Andrew Sullivan’s piece (don’t have a link, but it was on DailyKos today) seems to represent the gist of this: the Revolting Repubs are positioning themselves as the opposition party/alternative to BushCo while the Dems sit on their hands.
scarecrow @ 117
Look how the GOP went after Clinton from the moment he was elected.
Now look at how they can’t conceive of a Republican president doing something worthy of punishment. It is as if Clinton was an untouchable, and Bush is a Brahmin.
Therefore, he can’t do something really wrong: he’s Republican. It is unthinkable. Literally.
(A Dem? Sure. Or if he didn’t really do it, just give them a sec and they’ll make something up…)
Hermes @ 170
Yup. Puke.
Bloody Mary for my Hopie, here ya go, dahlin’. Gotta whole pitcher so help yo’seff. And have some dese nice cheese straws I just made, to go wif.
Lotus, where have you been? So nice to see you!
Scarecrow – those are in the Iraqi detention facilities with military detention – then in the offsite black CIA prisons, the AP article referred to 96 kidnap and holds (so what happened to all but the 14?)
The sad thing with the Iraq round ups is we never acknowledge we have them. It’s not like, with bodies turning up everywhere, families end up worried. Or that women get forced to do things without their husbands/fathers/brothers in a society that doesn’t allow for that, putting themselves and their children at risk. On and on it goes.
No one is talking much about the family members of high value detainees that we have also taken “into custody” WHere’s the Child Kidnap & Abuse section in the legislation? *sigh*
Jane had the piece up from the new book release on O’Beirne and the DODs approach of stacking the Iraq reconstruction with Bush loyalist poltical operatives, instead of competents.
This US News & World Report – Capitol Crooks is a sad companion piece. Between the Muckraker, Matt, etc. there’s a lot of old info, but it’s still an eyeopener.
BTW – much of what is discussed in the article Jane wrote about is confirmed by Packer’s Assassin’s Gate (the 24 yo no finance background appoitment to restart and reshape the Iraqi stock exchange, for example)
BTW – it’s an interesting thing to watch, the CIA changes. Once you have Foggo coming under fire (Foggo, with his Cunningham relationships) you get Hayden (whose former backup, King, went on to be CUnningham’s backup and who has already proven his willingness to direct massive violations of FISA and misrepresent even basics like the language of the Constitution)put in charge of CIA.
Coincidence.
Margot @ 174
She was incarcerated. Sprung yestiddy.
spot on Redd.
tell it everywhere.
Hermes @ 170
Perhaps Andy would like it to be, but that don’t make it so.
Andy has been known to shill the Repug’s latest talking points in the past.
I’ll have a bit of salt with his comments. His grasp on political reality seems to often exceed his reach.
Just my 2 cents, doncha know. *g*
scarecrow @ 106
Holy smokes! In the last paragraph — you know, the one that gets chopped to fit the space — AP notes, “the U.S. military has detained 14,000 people worldwide, with 13,000 in Iraq, most held without specific charge. ” That is a *lot* of ’splaining to do. It could get real embarassing if the R’s lose their grip.
I want to keep it simple for you guys.
There is only one critical objective for the Administration, come November. Keep the REPUBLICAN MAJORITY. They need to hide behind a wall of RRRRs, which can be relied upon to prevent subpoenas, investigations, war crime prosecutions, accountability, hearings and maybe even impeachment.
To keep that wall strong, they will do lots of tactical moves (e.g, sacrificing hard right for ‘moderates’); allowing the illusion criticism of the Administration to demonstrate independent thought; funding stealthies like Leiberman and that Greenie dude. Because when the votes are counted or fixed, Bush and his cabal need MORE RRRS THAN DDDs.
For 2006: Count your Ds and Rs, and don’t waste time on their distractions.
Perhaps hindsight is truly 20/20, but anyone who knew anything about the history of that dumb fucker Shrub would have to have seen what the outcome was eventually going to come to. Everything he’s touched has turned to shit. The man has no compassion, no courage, no perspective, and no honor. His brothers are the same way. Even 41 looks good in comparison.
I was one of those who didn’t believe that he was going to be elected in 2000, and that the Republicans were either truly desperate or completely dysfunctional by nominating him. Well, silly me, eh? Perhaps in the end, it couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch. Right now, even if I wasn’t a yellow dog Democrat, I wouldn’t vote Republican even at the point of a gun. They haven’t done ANYTHING right in six years.
Lessons Learned @ 149
LOL!! I like it!
From the US N&WR article, re: how careful Bush & Co are with classified info
emph added
Add in the Schmitz situation at DOD’s Inspector General’s office, and Haynes as top Pentagon COunsel and chief JAG arm twister —
Mary #130 — thanks for that link, that was it. That’ll teach me to try and write a coherent query with two kids screaming about their Neopets in the background. Gah.
I missed Levin on Face the Nation, not certain what his position is on all this; I think he’s still on the downside of the slippery slope and needs some prodding back up the hill.
Thinking of you and your dad, Bobby G…
I see the growing GOP opposition to Bush’s agenda as being more complex than some here have observed.
1. Congressmen facing disturbing polling numbers are distancing themselves from Bushworld as far as they feel necessary.
2. GOP who feel they haven’t done anything in the past six years for which they can face indictment (what percentage of DC GOP is that, I wonder?) are distancing themselves from those who they suspect will be indicted if and when the Dems regain some leverage over stalled DoJ investigations.
3. With the DeLay and Abramoff machines down and the Rove machine on the ropes, some GOP are floating trial balloons to see if they can muster more internal power within the party for themselves after the dust clears.
4. Throughout this, Rove and the GOP national campaign apparatchiks are intent on creating as much doubt, confusion and chaos over the next 1 month, 20 days, 4 hours, 29 minutes, and 37 seconds as possible – by whatever means possible, so they go about stealing the five to seven million votes it is going to take to keep them out of jail.
op99,
Thanks.
P J Evans @
87
Been wondering this myself.
As I see it, the Bushies are trying to protect themselves against internal and external consequences of their actions.
I don’t see how the proposed legislation protects anyone from prosecution for war crimes – it could in fact be used as evidence of systematic violations of international human rights.
Also been wondering – surely there are other statutes in the US about torture in addition to international agreements such as the Geneva Conventions? Is there nothing in the constitution that would apply? Surely the proposed legislation cannot override ALL of them?
more from the department of ghouls and tools of das homeland:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200…..ity_usa_dc
Margot, dearie!
I been so deep in mod-jail that nobody could hear me. Jamie or somebody finally mashed the right button yesterday and cut that gag I been wearing for three looooong weeks.
What happened was: I’d submit a comment, it’d go into mod, and more often than not, there it would die. When the mods did find it before it auto-disappeared (which they apparently do after two hours — though some of mine did in two minutes) — by that point, the thread would be so long past me, only folks reading after-the-fact would know I’d been talking. Even when I’d holler, “Hey, everybody, my [#] is free now, so please hit F5,” y’all reading in real-time wouldn’t see it. More than once, I’ve thanked you for some nice comment, but you weren’t to know.
Damnedest thing I may have ever been through. Whew!
Re Andrew Sullivan: I just ran over there but didn’t see the post Hermes & op99 were just talking about. But here’s his new take on Powell and Geneva.
hey, lotus just got released from fdlgitmo!
She was incarcerated. Sprung yestiddy.
METAPHORICALLY ONLY, pul-leeeze, op99!
ET you funny.
lotus, I thought I saw something about that, but then when I’d go back and read old threads, there you’d be. So I didn’t understand exactly.
You have been missed. ;)
I want to keep it simple for you guys.
Thank you for that, Cassandra: “simple” just the way I like and need it.
lotus @ 189
Lotus,
Here’s the Andrew Sullivan linky.
this from the National Journal early this afternoon:
National Journal’s Richard Cohen sent the Brunch this e-mail: “Be aware that there is considerable anxiety among House Republicans about what Bob Ney does next. To cut to the chase, they all want him to resign NOW. And, from what I hear, he has not responded accordingly. Republicans know that it’s bad news for them if he remains as a member of the House into next week. I am told by a reliable House GOP source that Hastert and Boehner already have told Ney that he has to go, but that he hasn’t taken the hint. It’s unclear if/how Ney’s rehab fits into this, at least in his mind. My sense is: 1) If he hasn’t formally submitted his resignation letter to Hastert by Tuesday morning when the House next meets, the Dems will go ballistic; and 2) I wouldn’t be surprised if the House then would move to expel him on a bipartisan basis, possibly as quickly as next week. That’s essentially what happened in the House when our friend Traficant refused to resign (on the eve of the 2002 election) after he was convicted in federal court….Traficant actually spoke in the House chamber during that debate. I can’t imagine that Ney would do that. But, who knows?
http://hotlineblog.nationaljou….._br_5.html
Ed*ard Teller @ 190
Let’s just say my powers of empathy — and my self-control — have both had a helluva stretching lately, ET. Not to mention my vocabulary of cusses.
Rover is not in an enviable position.
In order to hold the R’s he is standing behind the likes of Chaffee at the expense of Laffey….
Not a great way to rally your base.
-GSD
Fox Picks Criminal Bob Ney as ‘Power Player’
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..er-player/
Chris Wallace begins the segment saying, “Given the ways of Washington, it was only a matter of time before one of the people we profile at the end of this show got in trouble with the law…”
Thanks for dat linky, Mad Dogs.
Jeesh, McGreevy could have at least waited until after the election for promoting his book.
-GSD
*xyz @ 34
Hi *xyz!
Its a good idea and I can add the info if I had the data, especially if it was in an easy to deal with form like a spreadsheet. Hint, hint.
The Spotlight team is just little o’ me. I have a full-time job and I’m working on moving back to the mainland. Updating the database is an ongoing effort. I am more than happy to update the database with contributions, but it helps me out immensely if the data is in a easy to use format.
Oh, and contact email addresses are on the web site. See the “contact” link at the bottom of any page.
Fern @ 187
I would think Article VI makes that pretty clear–international treaties, once ratified, become the supreme law of the land. Under that, the War Crimes Act would technically be moot, unless it were to expand–beyond the ratified Geneva Conventions–what constituted a war crime. I believe the purpose of the War Crimes Act is to define violations of the Geneva Convention as violations of U.S. criminal law and sets penalties for those violations.
That’s why Bush needs to get rid of it to go on doing what he’s been doing. I don’t think anyone willing to torture someone gives a shit about violating the Conventions or U.S. law. What they don’t want to do is go to jail or be fined for it. And, if they don’t get cover from the OLC (which they can’t, now that Hamdan v. Rumsfeld has been decided), they’re not going to step out of line.
And, I’ll bet I know who’s screaming the loudest–the CIA contractors. They know, in a pinch, that their employers will throw them to the wolves before taking a hit to the bottom line.
But, as for the constitutionality of the issue, that should be covered under Article VI, which makes the Geneva Conventions our law.
fwiw, Lotus was temporarily under an inadvertent technological ‘house arrest’ so to speak — she was not incarcerated — she was not extraordinarily rendered — none of her organs were even close to failure!
Here’s something that may come as a sobering fact to the WH and the Coalition of the ?… No suprise to some, though.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0917-26.htm
*ilson46201 @ 204
And I’m George Dubya Bush and I approved of this message.
LOL!
(From Mad Dogs’ Sully-in-ToL linky at 195.)
My oh my, wonder what Clydeene would think of her mot having made it all the way to London . . .
Angie,
Afghanistan may end up being the nation that prompted the collapse of the two greatest superpowers in the 20th century.
Look at what the UK is saying about Afghanistan.
Afghanistan, where empires die.
-GSD
As NATO struggles to keep this travesty from unravelling, the Non-aligned Movement is shoring up their ties and boosting membership.
The world is shifting to the east and Blair and Bush were the two rubes that accelerated the shift all while thinking they were doing the opposite.
*ilson46201 @ 204
Except for her sanity-petal . . . and occasionally some of the mods’ too.
GSD @ 208
I read that earlier today and I quite agree with your sentiment. A simple reading of history could have, would have prevented this.
Clydeene says “What’s a mot?”
*ilson46201 @ 204
Mr. Yoo,
you are not allowed to steal *ilson’s handle here!
new thread
Scarecrow —
When I criticize the blogging community, I’m including myself.
I read the sites you mention every day (except The Last Hurrah, I’ve missed that one –.) But I see us talking passionately about politics/issues/events, among ourselves and in the abstract.
Glenn Greenwald is an excellent example. His posts are crucially important, and they are (rightfully) directed to an educated audience. As far as I know, his posts haven’t addressed the problem of reaching less informed swing voters — his issues are legal ones.
Do any of the other liberal blogs give us practical suggestions for connecting with these folks who need to know more about the issues, and whose votes may decide the election?
(There are a fair number of comments about “low-information voters” and “Joe Six-tooth”. I believe this contempt reflects “low information” on our part.)
The only post I’ve read that addressed the problem was a dkos diary. (I’ve looked for the diary since, and haven’t been able to find it –) It was by a woman who wrote “had enough?” on the bills that she used to pay at the car wash and the convenience store — and then took the time to talk with any clerk or other worker who saw the message and mentioned it.
This writer definitely “got it” — her intention was absolutely to connect and she described instances where that happened.
I do that now, whenever I pay for anything. (I’m also a Freeway Blogger — that definitely gets information out to everybody!)
What else can I do? Where else is this critical reaching out being discussed? Am I missing something? Is this not as important as I think it is?
Teller> Rove and the GOP national campaign apparatchiks are intent on creating as much doubt, confusion and chaos .. to keep them out of jail.
I think Rove is an enigma. I recall seeing him being interviewed on tv ( I do not have a link) where he said he thought he would be remembered as ( and I paraphrase) a bad person, a dirty trickster. But you know what? I don’t think he could care less. Rove acted like somebody who *knows* he has immunity from any legal action. What is Rove worth anyway? How much moolah does Rove think he will have 5 yrs from now? Rove is a wierd guy.
angie @ 210
The ghost of Rudyard Kipling writhes . . .
When I came out of surgery Tuesday, I asked my Republican mom if I could fill out her absentee ballot for her and she said yes.
aine @
20
My sentiments exactly!
Jan @ 214
I really like your story of the woman engaging people at the one to one level. We all need to do more of this sort of thing.
My $0.02 is that the media play a major role in shaping the narratives. Without ignoring the amazing rise of the blogosphere, most people get their information from the traditional news media and MSM (being broader than just the news outlets). I strongly believe that we need to force a change in the media. The media is already reacting to blogs and thus they will change, but we need to *engage* the media. We need to make it easier for them to get the facts right and painful when they get the facts wrong or reprint spin (from anyone) as news.
ccmask– now that’s a mother’s love in action! I hope you are well on the road to complete recovery.
The ghost of Rudyard Kipling writhes . . . over this:
Jan @ 142
My post today is on this very topic.
Two big ol’ AMENs to Mark’s 219 and angie’s 220, and a SMOOCH to ccmask!
Lotus got ‘rendered’ Blogtanamo I think its called…
Whatever you wanna call it, Hopie, I’m gawddam glad it’s OVAH!
Howya doon on that pitcher o’ Bloodies, cha? Need you a refill?
ccmask @ 217
Oh, I hope you are feeling better. Must say I got a nice chuckle out of that.
Thanks for the cheers everyone. I was thinking today that everyone should know at least 5 Republicans that would let you fill out their ballots. I got two so far (okay, so they were out of pity but there is a damn war on) and I haven’t even asked outside the family yet. Unless the Bush administration will ask if anyone helped you pack that suitcase, I mean, fill out that ballot….
PS: Makes a great birthday or Christmas gift! Who could ask for more? Adopt a Republican Ballot!
Regarding the title of this post, it occurs to me that it doesn’t matter what’s actually going on in Republican circles. It doesn’t matter what Rove planned or did not plan. It doesn’t matter if this is to allow Republicans to run against the president or if it is supposed to be used as a cudgel against Democrats. It doesn’t matter.
What does matter is that Democrats and liberals paint it as weakness, as an indication that Bush is wrong, wrong, wrong, and an indication that the Republicans can’t stop Bush, and an indication that the country is getting weaker and weaker the longer Republicans control Congress or any branch of the government. What matters is liberals and Democrats taking this and convincing the public of their own theories.
The theories don’t need to be true. The perspectives don’t even have to be consistent. As long as the current Republican tussle is viewed negatively for Republicans, it doesn’t matter what the truth is or what exactly people believe. It doesn’t matter as long as we take the narrative and make it serve us.
This is “creating reality.”
To that effect, this post is great. It argues on one hand that if this is crass political manuevering, then they are Rubber-Stamp Republicans. On the other hand, if this is real, then the Republican Party has no principles, not even the “mavericks” or the supposedly principled ones. And if Republicans do unite, then this means that the Republicans are political opportunists bent on destroying the freedoms of America for their own corrupt, power-hungry ends.
Compare this to the other perspective that could argue that this is a “brilliant” political tactic to put Democrats on the defensive and that principled Republicans are not rubber stamps. HAH! It’s only true if they convince the majority of Americans of its truth.
I just wish the people in power would realize this.
Christy, your assessment is dead on. These rubber stamps deserve nothing so much as expulsion from Congress. They have criminally failed to carry out their constitutional duties of checks and balances. They have put party before country. They have feasted upon pork, while the nation is starved of the programs that protect its citizens. Can anyone think of a worse bunch of unconscionable morons? Shall we believe that now in the eleventh hour they have had an epiphany? Does Joe really think that bullshit still talks and nobody walks? If that’s what they believe, they are stupider than we are. Scarborough seems to think it’s ok that these people protected a President and his pretext for war because their political lives were at risk. How does someone sleep at night knowing they are sending young men and women to fight and die for an unjust cause? How do they atone for all the deaths of Iraquis? Is it really so simple as declaring that the time is right to repudiate all that went before? No. Many of them should consider themselves lucky to just leave with no legal jeopardy. For surely they have behaved with great malice for their own gain. Joe Scarborough thinks it’s just a little matter of politics. Now they see advantage in repudiating the President. It’s such a Republican myopic way of viewing things. Surely the public wants to partner with these people as they seek their personal advantage. NOT!
LindaR @
66
Yes.