Fitz!

Looks like the Allen/Webb debate is depriving national security adviser Stephen Hadley of a Sunday morning sweep.

Mornin’ pups.

~~~

Preznit Little Boots needs help;

http://us.cnn.com/2006/POLITIC…..index.html

The parting shot is almost Jesus-like.

aren’t all Cardinals by very definition of the Church bossy males?

Good Morning, Christy. Hope all is well at your house this fine morning. We are in dire need of rain and a few drops just landed so am hoping for much more. Have a great day!

Redd: Wonder if the word “macaca” will come up on Meet the Press this morning?

Oh yeah, Pumpkinhead will toss him a softball about it and then let him give a bullshit answer without challenging him on it.

Good morning, Christy!

Now lessee what Webb-Allen MTP has for us to hoot at . . .

“This Week’$” George really surprised me by becoming a turncoat. Did he not believe in anything he was saying while he was in the Clinton Administration or does he not believe anything he is advancing now? Sad.

Good morning, Go Webb!

nothing looks too confrontational to me, it’ll be a day of tennis then off to the casino

enjoy sunday firedogs, it’s one beutifull day here in new york and I’m getting out

Sally @ 8

“This Week’$” George really surprised me by becoming a turncoat. Did he not believe in anything he was saying while he was in the Clinton Administration or does he not believe anything he is advancing now? Sad.

He makes a lot of money and he doesn’t want to lose his “job”, so he’s careful not to say anything that will cause the peasants to storm the castle with torches and pitchforks.

GO WEBB!! Beat Sen. Caca!

Keep the focus on Iraq, Iraq, Iraq……

Speak to those military families in the tidewater area. If you can turn half of them your way, you’ll win.

Do it Jim!!

I don’t care if you did work for Reagan, get that dodo head out of the Senate!

(sorry for all the exclamation points so early in the a.m.)

Good Morning, CHS!

I think I’ve had enough Republican hypocrisy. How about some of these talking heads asking tough questions about Halliburton and oversight?

Riesz (11), money really is the root of most evil. This Administration has proven that to be true–money-changers in the temple of our democracy.

The odious Joe Scarborough gets it right (h/t to Americablog)

Rats leaving the ship indeed.

Christy, the Grosbeak is quite beautiful.

It would have been more appropriate, however, to have had the ubiquitous ‘Double-breasted mattress thrasher‘ given the current state of kerfuffle.

Let me know if you need a picture of one.

Twisted Martini @ 15

The odious Joe Scarborough gets it right (h/t to Americablog)

Rats leaving the ship indeed.

Some mutter that their leader’s governing style looks more like Jimmy Carter’s every day — and among that crowd, there is no harsher insult.

Personally I can’t think of any president LESS like Bush than Jimmy Carter, but who can argue with “some say” (or mutter).

Balrog @ 16

Christy, the Grosbeak is quite beautiful.

It would have been more appropriate, however, to have had the ubiquitous ‘Double-breasted mattress thrasher‘ given the current state of kerfuffle.

Let me know if you need a picture of one.

That needs a spew warning Balrog. And mind the gap.

I don’t believe for one minute straight-talker McCain or that Graham fella will do anything but talk about being against Bush’s torture. They’ll do the Bush bidding as usual. McCain is especially good at this mumbo-jumbo. I give Warner a little credit for not being as great a hypocrite as the other two but he has been a willing Bush accomplice as far as the eye can see. Cretins.

As it has for about three days straight now, the Times of London ledes with Badmouth Benny:

Pope vs Prophet
With two unfortunate words, “evil and inhuman”, applied to the prophet Muhammad, Pope Benedict XVI set back relations with Islam several eras

Leading article: Let the Pope preach

And while you’re there, see also:

Beat us, we need it

The idea that there is a silver lining to losing the House of Representatives, if not the Senate, to the Democrats is gaining ground among conservatives

and

‘No loss’, says critic

The World Trade Center was an “ugly box”, says one of the world’s most outspoken art critics

Twisted Martini @
18

Balrog @ 16

Christy, the Grosbeak is quite beautiful.

It would have been more appropriate, however, to have had the ubiquitous ‘Double-breasted mattress thrasher‘ given the current state of kerfuffle.

Let me know if you need a picture of one.

That needs a spew warning Balrog. And mind the gap.

Mind the gap? Wazzat?

A reference to your demise in my favorite movies of all time.

Quick OT question: Does anyone have a link for terrorist attacks on the U.S. since 9/11?

I thought Taylor Marsh had a piece here within the last week or so, but I’m not having luck finding it. Thanks for any help.

And the Webb/Allen Meet the Press debate (at least in my mind) has Webb mopping the floor with Allen.

Mind the gap: it’s what they say in the UK when you’re getting off the train.

GO WEBB!

Here’s a wapo article about bloggers and their impact on the Webb(D-VA war hero, novelist, fmr Navy Secretary, father of marine serving in Iraq, SMART man) vs Allen (R- RRRacist, spoiled brat, dubya mouthpiece, chickenhawk, cowboy wannabe, dumbo) race.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..tml?sub=AR

Some historical context by Steve Gilliard into some effective interrogation techniques.

Unfortunately, they are not found in later editions of “My Pet Goat.”

Luftwaffe interrogation techniques

lotus– I read the Times story this morning on the Pope and this struck me:

Benedict has also, crucially, exacerbated deep divisions within his own church between traditionalist Catholics and moderate progressives. Those Catholics who had come to feel comfortable with the mild and elderly professorial Pope, relieved that “God’s rottweiler” was not about to declare jihad on the liberal wing of his own church, are utterly dismayed at this apparent show of Ratzinger’s ageing teeth.

(snip)

Yet by any yardstick Benedict’s words have betrayed his long-term antipathy towards Islam. Vatican watchers are now remembering the unprecedented privilege he granted last year of an extended interview to the late Oriana Fallaci, an Italian Islamophobe.

A consistent theme of Benedict’s preaching as Pope has been the erosion of Christianity in Europe, and, by implication, the danger of the spread of Islam. He is thought also to oppose the inclusion of Turkey in the European Union.

The origins of the Pope’s abrasive comments date back to a seminar at his summer residence at Castel Gandolfo in September last year. Some 40 of his former students gathered to talk about Islam and Catholicism. The Pope is reported to have said dialogue with Islam was difficult. A Jesuit professor, Khalil Samir, who took part in the seminar, says Benedict deplored the fundamentalism of Islam and its rigid reading of texts without room for interpretation. Muhammad, the Pope said, was treated like a “tape recorder”, as he expressed the word of God directly, “which is absurd”.

And then there was this article in the Times:

THE commander of the British taskforce in southern Afghanistan said last week that UK troops could be in the country for as long as 10 years.

In his first interview since arriving in Afghanistan, Brigadier Ed Butler said: “I don’t think there’s any doubt we will be here for a considerable time. There will need to be training teams and embedded officers for 10 years or so.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/a…..96,00.html

Twisted Martini @ 22

A reference to your demise in my favorite movies of all time.

Doh. Where’s my Longbottom Leaf when I need it?

Balrog @ 28

Twisted Martini @ 22

A reference to your demise in my favorite movies of all time.

Doh. Where’s my Longbottom Leaf when I need it?

You must have smoked it all!

Bush will announce his “conversion” this week.

Bush: A stinker for the ages.

http://news.independent.co.uk/…..604092.ece

Webb is badly blowing the question about his 27-year-old misogyny.

Sorry, angie, but I’m not liking this at all — and his 1997 statement that TR’s probing now, isn’t helping.

He’s bootin’ it.

This Week with…Jewel?

They couldn’t get Christina Aguilara?

Here comes the macaca tape.

Allen is flat-out lying now.

“I never heard of ‘macaca’ before — nonononononononotI.” (mas o menos)

lotus @ 31

Webb is badly blowing the question about his 27-year-old misogyny.

The only positive (more like a double negative) was that Webb pointed out Felix is of the same opinion.

Allen: “Blah, blah, blah…”

Fucking weasel.

Good morning all,

Tornados did not decided to set down but they wagged their tails and gave a beautiful show, in the midwest. Hot as hadies yesterday and much cooler and fall like today. Very strange weather for autumn, spring tornados in reverse…good bye summer!

Does anyone remember back before the Iraq war had started, the story about the documentary of Iraqi teens and their concerns about us invading them?? I remember that the story of it finally being aired was quite interesting…executives at abc, cbs and some other stations were threatened with job loss if they aired the program? I was just thinking that re-reading that article or information might be interesting. At the time I just couldn’t believe that this strong of censorship was occuring and I doubted the information. (I can’t remember why? denial?) Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else remembered it and thinking how absolutely true it is after the abc 9/11 airing, how obvious it is that censorship and very strong censorship is occuring and was occuring back then. I am wondering if there is a way to dig up some of that stuff and make the point during the elections.

Do a commercial of fired executives one after the other, “I was fired for practicing free speech” and then say “Vote for the constitution, Vote democrat”.

Dreaming and scheming…it’s all I do anymore…must….keep…..moving…….

How I despise and abhor that man, OK kiddo @ 30. If it were anyone else I would be hollering hallelujah, we are finally joining the fight to save our planet, but it is patently transparent amd tooooo little as the article indicates.

MTP not on here til 10:30 :(

Yeeesh. Cardin has a bad day:

Md. Rep. Fires Staffer Over Race Comment

Russert didn’t do much of a job this morning. But then, neither did either of his guests.

Okay, I’m gonna root around ’til I find us some good news. Or at least a funny . . .

lotus @ 40

Russert didn’t do much of a job this morning. But then, neither did either of his guests.

I thought he was OK for the format. The mysoginists had the chance to go after each other.

ABC continues to show it is the official broadcast arm of the Republican Party.

“This morning’s photo is a rose-breasted grosbeak. It’s a beauty, isn’t it? I don’t think I have ever had one on my feeders, at least not a male in full plumage, that I can recall, but they are absolutely gorgeous birds with a very distinctive, slightly raspy song.”

I get them all the time at my house, though I’ve never gotten a great shot (pardon the whore).

tpres2000 @
2

Looks like the Allen/Webb debate is depriving national security adviser Stephen Hadley of a Sunday morning sweep.

I don’t recall Hadley being so prominently displayed recently… wonder what’s with the rotation of the Rep talking points presenters… there must be some -bird world- type of pecking order here I’ve not tumbled to yet… why so much Hadley today???

NTodd @ 44

Hi N. You did a yeoman’s job over at the short-lived comment section of the Joe4Joe blog. To bad it wasn’t immortalized in public. LMAO.

I notice Pope Benedict XVI is “deeply sorry” for the “angry reaction” to his recent remarks about Islam. Nice spin Pope. Won’t work though. That’s not quite the same as being sorry for THE actual remarks. Pope Benedict: Just what this world is in need of. Another crusading religious nut throwing gasoline on the fire that is the Middle East conflagration.

September 17, 2006

Pope Responds to Criticism of Remarks

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 8:21 a.m. ET

CASTEL GANDOLFO, Italy (AP) — Pope Benedict XVI said Sunday that he was ”deeply sorry” about the angry reaction to his recent remarks about Islam, which he said came from a text that didn’t reflect his personal opinion.

”These (words) were in fact a quotation from a Medieval text which do not in any way express my personal thought,” Benedict told pilgrims at his summer palace outside Rome.

The pope sparked the controversy when, in a speech Tuesday to university professors during a pilgrimage to his native Germany, he cited the words of a Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, Islam’s founder, as ”evil and inhuman.”

”At this time I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims,” the pope said Sunday.

Muslim leaders in the Mideast gave mixed reactions to the pontiff’s apology. […]

Okay, okay, I know, gotta keep lookin’ . . .

NTodd! You rival Christy with your orno-art.

njr @ 45

tpres2000 @
2

…why so much Hadley today???

Bushco has a particular piece of propaganda it needs to catapult – torture, torture torture.

Good stuff (mostly) from Scarface in the WaPo.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00996.html

Re: Democrats – “Nor can they explain how they would balance the budget or stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons.”

Maybe Joe could explain what the Republican plan is for these items. Cuz so far they haven’t done shit on either one.

What’s wrong? Are the Democrats boycotting the Sunday morning news shows and no one told us? Has George Steph. decided that since Dems are boycotting ABC due to P 9/11 he’ll boycott them right back? Sheesh. Nothing to watch, turn the TV off.

Gray raining here. We are not having a drought. We are having monsoon season. The cat is very very interested in what’s going on outside . . . he longs to catch birds, but is not allowed off the front porch . . .

The Pope’s non apology is textbook George Macaca Allen– wonder if they chatted?

ifthethunderdontgetya @ 17

Twisted Martini @ 15

The odious Joe Scarborough gets it right (h/t to Americablog)

Rats leaving the ship indeed.

Some mutter that their leader’s governing style looks more like Jimmy Carter’s every day — and among that crowd, there is no harsher insult.

Personally I can’t think of any president LESS like Bush than Jimmy Carter, but who can argue with “some say” (or mutter).

Yes…Jimmy Carter and George Bush–both champions of human rights. Except Bushie, who is committed to torture. Oh and both men worked diplomatically for peace in the Middle East, except for Bush, who has worked hard to tear the region apart and inflame conflicts. And finally, two men who asked Americans to make sacrifices for the good of the country. Oops, that’s right Bush is leaving the bill for his wars to our children and their grandchildren.

OT, but I got a wry chuckle out of this story, wondering if this was what Scooter was trying to tell Judy…

http://news.independent.co.uk/…..603871.ece

Scientists baffled by sudden decline of aspen in Rockies
***
Scientists believe that up and down the mountain chain, the aspen trees are beginning to vanish. As many as 10 per cent have died or are ailing in parts of Arizona, Colorado and Utah, according to the surveys. In parts of Alberta, Canada, about 30 per cent of the trees have died in five years.
***
Researchers are focusing on the unusual reproductive system of the aspen. Instead of distributing seeds, the trees sit upon hugely complex root systems. As older trees die, the roots send up shoots which become saplings.

The greatest worry is that in areas where the trees are in trouble, the shoots are not appearing either. “If we’re losing roots,” warned Wayne Shepperd, of the US Forest Service, “that’s going to change the amount of aspens on the landscape.”

but, of course, it’s just another fringe benefit of living in Bu$hworld, no mystery about that.

I think we have Hadley by default. Rumsfeld is only going to open the door to having some of the retired military come and thoroughly beat him about the head, neck and shoulders – maybe even get into things like what, specifically, Rumsfeld authorized, his litle NAMA group that was so nasty even the CIA didn’t want to play ball, questioning on security in Iraq – descent into chaso in Afghanistan, moat building etc Unlikable incompetent that brings too much baggage.

Then there’s Cheney, who is slicker and can’t be held to account for nearly as many of the war status issues – but he’s already stumped one round and people just think he’s bad news. They love using Rice – but no one wants her “sullied” but the torture discussions. It hurts her brand.

Hadley-Yoo-Gonzales-Hayden, they only have a few good ol torture proponents they can trot out.

Balrog @
51

Good stuff (mostly) from Scarface in the WaPo.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00996.html

Re: Democrats – “Nor can they explain how they would balance the budget or stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons.”

Maybe Joe could explain what the Republican plan is for these items. Cuz so far they haven’t done shit on either one.

Oops. Sorry Martini. Missed that you already posted this link.

‘Those are HOTELS, Martini!’

And Carter wanted to get started on finding alternative energy sources back in 1978 — which would have ended our dependence on Middle Eastern oil by now…

What’s the position of George W. Bush on that?

Don’t miss MTP — the Allen-Webb debate. If the first 6 minutes is any indication — the only candidate I love more than Webb is Ned!

Sample from Webb — (paraphrasing) [people ask me] why George Allen is attacking my position on the war when he never served in Vietnam. Hell, the French fought in Vietnam – Allen didn’t.

Balrog @
51

Good stuff (mostly) from Scarface in the WaPo.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00996.html

Re: Democrats – “Nor can they explain how they would balance the budget or stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons.”

Maybe Joe could explain what the Republican plan is for these items. Cuz so far they haven’t done shit on either one.

Oops, sorry Martini. I see you already linked this article…

‘Those are HOTELS, Martini!’

Slothrop– answer to your question is up at OK kiddo’s 30.

Virginian here. I thought Webb did great on MTP!

Jane S. @ 54

ifthethunderdontgetya @ 17

Twisted Martini @ 15

The odious Joe Scarborough gets it right (h/t to Americablog)

Rats leaving the ship indeed.

Some mutter that their leader’s governing style looks more like Jimmy Carter’s every day — and among that crowd, there is no harsher insult.

Personally I can’t think of any president LESS like Bush than Jimmy Carter, but who can argue with “some say” (or mutter).

Yes…Jimmy Carter and George Bush–both champions of human rights. Except Bushie, who is committed to torture. Oh and both men worked diplomatically for peace in the Middle East, except for Bush, who has worked hard to tear the region apart and inflame conflicts. And finally, two men who asked Americans to make sacrifices for the good of the country. Oops, that’s right Bush is leaving the bill for his wars to our children and their grandchildren.

The Bush view of human rights extends only to those he considers “his kind”.

President Carter is a good man. George Bush is not.

Front Pae of WaPO

Fear that the Maryland voting debacle will occur NATIONWIDE during this November’s election where control of Congress is at stake!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..rrer=email

Read it and weep

Hi Mary, you asked the other day about the politician who stopped at a casino “just to use the bathroom” and picked up a $2700 bribe won $2700. It was none other than House Majority Leader John Boehner. Here’s a photo of him with Rep. Randy Kuhl (R-Shotgun), whom I am working to unseat. Check out the first comment, mweehee.

McCAin on This Week sounding WAY too conciliatory. Not expressing outrage, not aclling bullshit.

McCain is evidently getting punished for this in New Hampshire

angie @ 53

The Pope’s non apology is textbook George Macaca Allen– wonder if they chatted?

Yes. angie. Your insight, as usual, cannot be beat.

#61 I was just thinking the other day how American culture has regressed–that having grown up in the 1970s with Jimmy Carter whose values were so progressive–and now to find myself in a country with the President lobbying for torture, my senator making racial slurs and identifying them as consistent with the “real Virginia”. I really feel scared about this cultural shift but the blogs have given me a sense of hope, a beacon in a dark age.

[NYT]Editorial

Bush Untethered

Watching the president on Friday in the Rose Garden as he threatened to quit interrogating terrorists if Congress did not approve his detainee bill, we were struck by how often he acts as though there were not two sides to a debate. We have lost count of the number of times he has said Americans have to choose between protecting the nation precisely the way he wants, and not protecting it at all.

On Friday, President Bush posed a choice between ignoring the law on wiretaps, and simply not keeping tabs on terrorists. Then he said the United States could rewrite the Geneva Conventions, or just stop questioning terrorists. To some degree, he is following a script for the elections: terrify Americans into voting Republican. But behind that seems to be a deeply seated conviction that under his leadership, America is right and does not need the discipline of rules. He does not seem to understand that the rules are what makes this nation as good as it can be. […]

Best McCain quote:

“This has nothing to do with Al Queda, and everything to do with America”

The thrust of his remarks was that the US should not cede the moral High Ground on the Geneva conventions because if w do, the bar will be lowered for all.

Shorter mcCain as filtered by LHP:Civilization declines into barbarism if Bush gets his way

Ahhh

Kittycatz

NTodd @ 44

“This morning’s photo is a rose-breasted grosbeak. It’s a beauty, isn’t it? I don’t think I have ever had one on my feeders, at least not a male in full plumage, that I can recall, but they are absolutely gorgeous birds with a very distinctive, slightly raspy song.”

I get them all the time at my house, though I’ve never gotten a great shot (pardon the whore).

This term “blogwhore”. “I do not think it means what you think it means.” I, for one, thrive on the links posted here to new information and commentary…from both sides of the aisle.

Months ago, Mary systematically walked through all the arguments for retaining troops in Iraq, showing that it would be impossible to define a defensible mission our troops could achieve. I wish I had saved that, because it’s still the right analysis.

In today’s NYT, there is a lenghty article, beginning on page 1, showing all the problems we are having ending the violence and providing security. Various elements of the government we are propping up are the principal source of the problems we are facing, and it is impossible to define the “enemy,” let alone define how are troops could separate them from the general population.

“Iraq Stumbling in Bid to Purge its Rogue Police.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09…..r=homepage

If we were not there, and were reviewing the conditions there to determine whether there was any credible way to send in troops to help the situation, we would have to conclude, “NO.”

Recall that that is exactly the question that NATO/UN troops wanted answered before they send “peace-keeping” troops into Lebanon. Yet we can’t see the logical connection between these two decisions.

Hadley up now:

“For 40 years no one thought Common Article 3 did not apply to Al Queda.”

WTF? Al Queda didn’t exist 40 years ago

To me, Hadley looks like a guy who would be running a shoe store down at the mall…

Hadley:

Common article 3 does not apply to military prisoners who are captured on the battlefield. Those pare prisoners of laws.

We are dealing with “unlawful combatants” and goes into some double speak conflating 2/3 different bills

John Yoo is spinning like a top in today’s NYT:

Bush is trying to make “reinvigorating the presidency his priority.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09…..ref=slogin

(Don’t know if this is behind the firewall but it’s worth a read – but not on an empty stomach.)

One of the things I most enjoy seeing on Sunday mornings, your bird pictures. :>

Fall has definitely come to Ohio. The chickadees are flocking, the summer birds have all departed their territories, and yesterday, I saw my first fall warbler. (Which of course, I had no prayer of identifying).

I need to get back into birding one of these days.

AH ha!

Hadley offering clues.

Says CIA is saying “tell us what is the law” “CIA will not do what we tell them to do”

MY guess:

The real story :

This is only a guess:

career CIA does not want to do toture. career CIA is saying it is illegal and saying to Bushco ‘put up or shut up-tell us what is the law that allows us to do this?’

looseheadprop @ 63

McCAin on This Week sounding WAY too conciliatory. Not expressing outrage, not aclling bullshit.

I agree. Where’s the sense of urgency?! From his tone and demeanor, you’d think this is just another piece of legislation.

Stephy:

Aren’t you saying “trust us”? Isn’t that asking a lot of the American peoople and Congress after (all the lies)?

Christy, out here in the northwest San Fernando Valley, we’re having the first Santa Ana of the season. Humidity is down to 27% – inside! (The record low is around 10%, just about normal for the Gobi.) The pyromaniacs will be out this afternoon, I’m sure.

You know, if reality ever bites BushCo in the a**, they’ll try to redefine paper clips and rubber bands as WMD and declare war on stationery stores.

I watched the Allen/Webb exchange. Focus: Iraq. Will Allen support Warner? He didn’t answer. Does Allen agree with Powell? No, he says.
Webb agrees with Warner. Will Allen pledge to serve 6 years in senate?
Allen doesn’t answer. Webb did a good job on Iraq, but that’s his whole campaign. Allen simply repeated “talking points.” I’m starting to question the narrow focus on Iraq. There are so many issues on which to separate these two candidates. We don’t know Allen’s stand on just about everything.

One thing Webb did well and what he accomplished is that Allen was forced to say “I’m with the president.” “I’m loyal.”

#63, #77–McCain is a horrible sellout.

George Felix Allen is a smarmy dork.

He has no interest in permanent status in Iraq. Sure. What do your donors think, Felix? Bet they don’t agree.

Getting really, REALLY heated; Timmeh lost control over this one.

Hadley:

We are going tot he Congress asking for clear standards, Then (after the legistaion?) Hadley will brief Congress on what the program is

What???

Hadley unable to answer any of Stephy’s questions about how this legislation would afffect captured Delta Force (non-uniformed)

Claims that DOD and all the geerals support this?

?????

Just watched Howard Kurtz (CNN) with Gloria Borger, David Corn and John Fund, talking about the Plame investigation and how it was all much ado about nothing. With Kurtz’ unhelpful “refereeing” we can see that while Corn did his best to introduce inconvenient truths (i.e., facts”) into the discussion of the Rove/Libby’s/Novak’s roles in the Plame outing and coverup, it is not possible for Corn alone to overcome deliberate lying and misinformation by Fund when combined with a lack of critical thinking skills by Borger. Gloria apparently thinks it’s just politics for the WH to go after whistleblowers who reveal that the WH misled the country into war.

Good morning,

One of the blogs I like is bagnewsnotes dot com. Today there are a couple of photos and analysis of W doing the crowd/push with Charlie. Also down page a little is a nice Make Love Not War shot of Condi that may explain why she is not front and center today. And the Disneyland/Gitmo is also good.

The Bag always has a good look at what the MSM is offering in terms of what the photos say.

Freezing temperatures in Taos last night, where the aspens are possibly not dying. Yet.

Otherwise, beautiful fall-like weather here in NM today.

looseheadprop @ 84

Hadley unable to answer any of Stephy’s questions about how this legislation would afffect captured Delta Force (non-uniformed)

Claims that DOD and all the geerals support this?

?????

First, middle, and last resort of the shrub’ites: Lie.

simple question for all these goofs: Are you for the Geneva Conventions or against them?

Good Morning Firepups,

lotus,

did you catch this amidst the Ney news this week ?

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001539.php

Hey Mel! Be sure to ask Katherine about that great view from under the bus . . .

Dana @ 80

I’m starting to question the narrow focus on Iraq.

Trying to unseat an incumbent is such a monumental task. All the polling data shows Iraq to be the dominant concern. I say – hammer it.

Plus, it bleeds into so many other issues: fiscal responsibility, domestic priorities left unattended, etc.

damn, lots of things catching on fire around here (So Cal) and the winds haven’t really even started much yet…

better refill the asthama meds…

Good morning, Moderator. I’m deservedly in jail for stupidly mentioning “c*sino” at 63. If you spring me, Mary, it resolves a conversation we had a coupla days ago.

What Webb coulda said:

For starters…using my comments about women in combat as an excuse for harassment or hazing is wrong. Flat out wrong. And those who did it have to answer for themselves. And that answer should be an apology.

Then he should strongly talk about his actions in intervening years, including the commission he led while Sec.

Webb is growing sharper as a candidate over time, but his noviceness does show from time to time.

And I do think Russert chose not to use the obvious followup on macaca. But he did get Allen on the record saying its a made-up word. Let the Webb campaigners make the most of that now.

I had a bizarre conversation with a conservative yesterday on my d-t-d. She went on about welfare gouging and such, and when I asked about the corporate graft, in Iraq for example, her response was that it is just big government, which she is also against. But she would rather beat up on old folks who need medicaid and single mothers on welfare than Halliburton.

I tried to point out how much graft has gone on in Iraq, but I don’t think it does any good.

Jeez, Goopers — horn-in, pig-out, and the consequences be damned, huh?

Inner Circle Taking More of C.D.C. Bonuses

By GARDINER HARRIS

Top officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention received premium bonuses in recent years at the expense of scientists and others who perform much of the agency’s scientific work, agency records show.

Those inside the office of the centers’ director, Dr. Julie L. Gerberding, have benefited the most, the records show.

Using the Freedom of Information Act, The New York Times requested records of all cash awards of $2,500 or greater granted to current and former C.D.C. employees from 2000 to mid-2006. The most recent awards are dated July 21.

Dr. Gerberding, whose leadership of the agency is the subject of an inquiry by the Senate Finance Committee, was not immediately available for comment, said Tom Skinner, a spokesman for the centers. […]

lotus @ 7:15
Looks to be a great editorial; too bad it’s behind the wall. You’ve pushed me to the library to find full text – tks.

Lindsey Graham on Face the Nation

Talking about how we would “go nuts” if another nation wanted to try Americans on secret evidence

We measure climate change in the birds who no longer show up at our bird feeders. Missing are the evening grosbeaks…gloriously large versions of goldfinches in their coloring. They’ve been gone for years, now. And rose-breasted grosbeaks are appearing less and less.

Thanks for the vicarious viewing, Christy.

Rumsfeld Unveils New Justification For Iraq War: High Gas Prices

SECRETARY RUMSFELD: The fact of the matter is – if Saddam Hussein were still in power in Iraq, he would be rolling in petrol dollars. Think of the price of oil today. He would have so much money. And he would be seeing the Iranians interested in a nuclear program, he would be seeing the North Koreans developing a nuclear program, and he’d say well why shouldn’t he – and he would. So we’re fortunate that he’s gone.

Lindsay Grahem
“pedophiles or Terroiss, no one should go to jail without knowing what the evidence is against them”

Graham is on Face The Nation now. Doing a better job than McCain did. But his “imagine an American going to death in a foreign land never seeing the evidence against him” scenario is focused on…Iran!

katie@37 – I don’t think I ever saw that documentary. It would be worthwhile to see, with a follow up if they can find the same people they interviewed. Yep – we have censorship and manipulated press all around. We always have had some, but the press fought it – now half they time they are helping map it.

************

Having said it, I have to take it back in part. NYT editorials lately have sounded like they are coming from a real paper that has people who read the first amendment and think about facts v. talking points.

*******
Hayden on Purity of Mind, Soul & Body – or “Dang, Why Won’t You CMA on Torture?”

“At the end of the day, the director – any director – of the CIA must be confident that what he has asked an agency officer to do under this program is lawful,” CIA Director Michael Hayden wrote employees on Thursday.

President Bush was more blunt: “They don’t want to be tried as war criminals,” he said at a news conference Friday.

Gosh, what with FISA felonies, misrepresentations to Joint Congressional investigations and getting promotions – he still finds time to write letters to his employees. What a guy. I bet he indulged that whacky sense of humour and had a Monopoly Board “Get out of Jail Free” graphic on each letter.

Intersting – we have 14 turnovers at GITMO, but the article refers to 96 kidnap and holds. The article refers to Zubaydah as a someone with high level info – but no one seems to be referring to the split personalities or the disappointment when it was determined he was primarily a travel agent, not a planner or power.

And while the WH claims now to have done thorough briefings to the commitee – no one wants to turn over the OLC opinions:

For example, the committee’s top Democrat, West Virginia Sen. Jay Rockefeller, has not been able to see the Justice Department’s legal opinions.

WHil I read it, Chain of Fools is playing in my head. I’d like to see the signatures on those opinions.

And McConnell is a super huge inhuman idiot for his idiot statement about the courts requiring a “timeout” in the GWOT.

Graham

Drawing the specter of using htese “legal shortcuts” by Iran against US soldiers or non uniformed combatants,

Says that a very real possibility in near future

Haliiburton emploees take note, He’s standing up for your safety.

Graham says he is willing to lose re-election over this issue,

SHOWING SOME GONADS

Morning, all…been having computer problems at home, so haven’t been able to comment much…things are working at the moment, but it’s been so glitchy, who knows how long that will last.

Maryland resident here, and I was an election judge for this primary, and will serve again in the general in November. I would have to say that I had no problem figuring out how to use the new electronic poll-books, but had no idea we were the first state to use them…our training did not include any hands-on use of the machines, although a couple of us tried them out during a break.

We had crashes, we had problems with voting machines not clearing the cards after being voted, but in my precinct, anyone who had a problem of any kind was given a provisional ballot. In my precinct, which is in northern Baltimore County, there was not a single voter who wanted to vote who was denied the opportunity to do so.

Prior to using the touch-screen voting machines, we used an optical scanning machine. You got a paper ballot with your name and other info on it, and you had to connect a broken line in order to indicate your vote. Ballot was then inserted in scanner by the voter, and if you hadn’t filled it out properly, it would spit out and you had an opportunity to fix it. It was the paper trail that we don’t have anymore, and which I believe is vital to the integrity of the elction process. How many people would use an ATM or – perform any other financial transactions – without a receipt or some other way to prove what you did?

Ahhh, the Ben Cardin thing…these were comments on a blog posted by a campaign worker. The GOP and the STeele campaign are making – or trying to make – a big deal out of this, but people know Ben too well to think what this person did is endorsed by Ben or by his campaign. Frankly, it smacks a little of the Joe-blog thing, and it would not surprise me at all to find that this person was planted in the campaign just for this purpose. Why would someone who posts anti-Semitic comments be working for a Jewish candidate?

Am off to the gym in a few minutes, to get in a workout so I can be home in time for football…after the Ravens crushed Tampa Bay last week, many of us in the Baltimore area are looking forward to the Ravens-Raiders game today.

Now, to see whether my cranky computer will post this comment…

scarecrow — they are really going after Corn, aren’t they? Sorry I missed that bit, I’d said yesterday there appeared to be a concerted effort targeting Corn given Novak’s nasty ad hominem and then Toensing’s tripe inside a 48-hour time period.

Damn, I should have ordered “Hubris” separately from the other books I bought; don’t know how long it will be before the order shows up and I can dig through for the bits that are terrifying them so badly.

I think Graham and Warner are going to have to stiffen McCain’s spine…

Spectre

Says that Linsday mcCain and Bush are all wrong on being willing to forgo Habeous Corpus.

Levin up:

Arms services Committee rejected Bush law.

We cannot claim that we are abiding by Geneva if we unilaterally modify Geneva.

It’s gonna come back to haunt us.

alittlemusicalityplease @ 74

John Yoo is spinning like a top in today’s NYT:

Bush is trying to make “reinvigorating the presidency his priority.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09…..ref=slogin

(Don’t know if this is behind the firewall but it’s worth a read – but not on an empty stomach.)

not behind the wall – thanks for the link to Yoo, I’ll save it for when I’m feeling up to his games of ethical ‘Twister’

have to note that I am pleased to recognize another Strictly Ballroom fan.

Mary, 65 just out of moderation is for you. Thanks, mod, smooches!

looseheadprop @ 103

Graham

Drawing the specter of using htese “legal shortcuts” by Iran against US soldiers or non uniformed combatants,

Says that a very real possibility in near future

Haliiburton emploees take note, He’s standing up for your safety.

Graham says he is willing to lose re-election over this issue,

SHOWING SOME GONADS

I used to respect Lindsay Graham. Then he lost me over habeas corpus. Maybe he’ll stray back into the respect column.

Levin

Standing up for McCain and Graham.

Levin does not see a way that Bush can get his leg [assed.

Levin suggests that there may be many more Rep. Senators that may stand with McCain, Graham and Warner

lhp @76 – take a look at the AP article. It says that after Hamdan, the OLC wouldn’t provide another ‘ollie ollie oxen free” memo.

That’s what has everyone hanging and twisting.

Roger, cbl at 89 — and though I dearly hope little Tommy Feeney (R-Jerk) gets his peepee whacked in this too befo’ it’s all ovah, Mel Martinez (R-Smarm) is sure to ooze plenny grease, a-turning on that Abramoff spit.

Oh, these FL Goopers make me think such evil thoughts.

lina @ 90

Dana @ 80

I’m starting to question the narrow focus on Iraq.

Trying to unseat an incumbent is such a monumental task. All the polling data shows Iraq to be the dominant concern. I say – hammer it.

Plus, it bleeds into so many other issues: fiscal responsibility, domestic priorities left unattended, etc.

Trouble is that Iraq did not bleed into those other issues, at least this morning in this debate. It stayed right there–Iraq–with the only good point to hammer Allen on is his loyalty to the Bush policy. In VA, Webb needs to hammer Allen on immigration and other big financial issues.

Graham: “I think we can get there from here…I’m willing to compromise.”

Specter: “I think we perhaps outta have another hearing.” Raises the idea that perhaps the JAG officers were pressured into signing their letter.

lina @ 113

I used to respect Lindsay Graham. Then he lost me over habeas corpus. Maybe he’ll stray back into the respect column.

For me, he is ever after in the “I’ll believe it when I see it” column.

Molly Ivins remembering Ann Richards

Rayne @ 105

scarecrow — they are really going after Corn, aren’t they? Sorry I missed that bit, I’d said yesterday there appeared to be a concerted effort targeting Corn given Novak’s nasty ad hominem and then Toensing’s tripe inside a 48-hour time period.

Damn, I should have ordered “Hubris” separately from the other books I bought; don’t know how long it will be before the order shows up and I can dig through for the bits that are terrifying them so badly.

Yep, and Howie was so obliging by showing the Novak statement calling Corn “a piece of work.” But that gave Corn a chance to show how Novak had first said that his source for Plame sending Wilson to Africa was via an “off hand comment” (paraphrasing) and how he’s now claiming that it came in a deliberate, direct statement. “Novak is fightin Novak,” replied Corn. Howie couldn’t interrupt fast enough!

One thing that’s driving me crazy, both Stephy and now Schieffer are referring to it as “modifying” the Geneva Conventions — as opposed to violating them.

Note to lhp & Mary:

The LAT links here are right in y’all’s wheelhouses (as the golf commentators are fond of saying, why I don’t know).

Waccamaw @ 96

lotus @ 7:15
Looks to be a great editorial; too bad it’s behind the wall. You’ve pushed me to the library to find full text – tks.

if you haven’t left yet, it came up for me, so it can’t be behind the wall.

Hadley on Face the Nation. Says the question is whether we want the CIA questioning captured al Qaeda. If we do, they need clear guidance.

He’s spinning this as though some argue that we would not be doing this questioning. Even Bob Schiefer asks why we just can’t follow FBI interrogation rules.

Hadley says the terrorists train for this. So Bob asks, well, if you spell it out in legislation, wouldn’t they train for this too?

Hadely says common article 3 is ambiguous (plays right into Bob’s question, doesn’t it?). Keeps harping on a clear standard.

Bob: what about the impression that we have to torture these mean people? Yep. Hadley: No.

Bad guys gave us no information on traditional questioning; he only gave us information when we let the CIA do [whatever they did, that wasn’t torture].

mrsmarks @ 122

One thing that’s driving me crazy, both Stephy and now Schieffer are referring to it as “modifying” the Geneva Conventions — as opposed to violating them.

Yep, it’s nutty. It’s like a redneck drunk “modifying” the law so it wasn’t illegal to chug Jack Daniels while driving a monster truck and running over a little old lady the night before.

Let’s hear it for Anne!

Let’s hear it for Anne’s computer!

So good to have BOF ‘EM back!

I love the bird pix and descriptions and look forward to them.

The talking heads shows? Not so much. Why anyone in their right mind watches that drek and, worse, takes it seriously, is beyond me.

Sorry, I forgot, we’re talking about the Washington press corps here. Guess I’m like the cranky cardinal this morning.

Which reminds me–wonder how many of the pope’s speech writers are looking at immediate reassignment after the last few days?

I’ve forgotten why David Corn landed on our shit list previously. PJs Media for one thing; anything else?

False choices are all this administration seems to be able to offer us: play my way, or we don’t play – and that’s just ridiculous. Do people really believe that what the Bush administration proposes is the ONLY viable option for anything?

I mean, they do this on every single issue: only THEIR plan can “save” Social Security. Only THEIR tax cuts can keep the economy out of danger. And on and on.

It’s time to call their bluff on the NSA program and on detainee treatment. And it’s time to ask the American people if they really, truly believe that a president who issues threats to shut down programs understands that he is not the imperial leader, but a president who is supposed to answer to us, and who is also supposed to answer to the legislative and judicial branches of government (”supposed” being the operative word – and it all hinges on the other branches actually exercising oversight).

Christy:

I was treated this morning to a very peevish cardinal.

One of the best sentences ever.

Interesting point about Linsey Graham was that he acknowledged he was under great pressure back home on why he couldn’t give the President the means he needed to deal with these bad guys. Graham was very eloquent on why this was shortsighted, kept turning the question around about how we would react to other countries using bad procedures to try/execute our own forces. But the point is these guys are under a lot of pressure from those who are okay with torture, because they assume/believe that the bad guys are so bad that normal rules don’t/shouldn’t apply. No one saying that, but that seems to be what the President is implicitly saying and appealing to.

op99 @ 65

Hi Mary, you asked the other day about the politician who stopped at a casino “just to use the bathroom” and picked up a $2700 bribe won $2700. It was none other than House Majority Leader John Boehner. Here’s a photo of him with Rep. Randy Kuhl (R-Shotgun), whom I am working to unseat. Check out the first comment, mweehee.

Thank you (it took me forever to get this – my screen kept freezing)

Yep – just had a call of nature and out of the blue a win – definitely nothing like Ney getting chips handed over to him to cash in . Nope – the guy’s just been blessed with a lucky urinary tract.

per yesterday morning’s thread – many of us agreed something other than what we are being told is happening on this subject of torture

like McCain, Senator Hayseed said and did nothing on the Chimp’s signing statements to their anti torture bill a few months back, and now he’s publicly stating he’s willing to lose election on issue ?!?!

seriously, wtf is going on here – haven’t had time to be current in threads – why this very public pushback now ?

BQ — re: aspens — first, I still think the entire mess of Iraq was facilitated by the relationships neo-cons had through Aspen Institute and the Aspen Strategy Group. Secondly, I think the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone may have had larger, far ranging but unanticipated effects on the western ecosystem. Aspens and other brushy trees are now growing up along the banks of rivers and creeks at a substantially changed rate, now that browsers like elks cannot eat them. It could be that elk and other browsers have been migrating because of the wolves, and it may take a while for all the repurcusions to sort themselves out — not to mention how global warming will complicate this situation.

Constant Reader, this from the Times article linked to above:

Inside the Vatican it is being said unofficially that Benedict was trying to pre-empt an aggressive letter aimed at the papacy by the president of Iran, which was why he cited the debate involving a Persian. Vatican sources say the Pope will clarify his words at his audience in St Peter’s Square today.

The editor of The Tablet, Catherine Pepinster, commented: “It seems surprising the Pope’s comments were not checked by one of his expert aides.”

(emphasis mine)

as lotus suggested yesterday, sounds like he wrote it all by his lonesome.

wolves > elks > aspens

Fascinating, Rayne. Jeez, all the ways my mind is richer for its proximity to yours — dang!

Mary @ 133

Yep – just had a call of nature and out of the blue a win – definitely nothing like Ney getting chips handed over to him to cash in . Nope – the guy’s just been blessed with a lucky urinary tract.

Thank the lord that crooked weasel Tom Delay has been replaced with this fine example of moral rectitude. Apparently, that’s all they got.

imm at 131 — thanks — it was quite the display this morning. *G*

Wolf: “Is there a compromise? Is the president ready to make concessions…”

How is it THE PRESIDENT who’s making concessions when we’re talking about violating the Geneva Conventions???!!!!

You mean there are real issues out there? Other than hits and tits? See Althouse’s Site meter and what she has to say about it and blogging: “What would we do without Site Meter?” — Ann Althouse, 9/02/06. Exactly.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 47

I notice Pope Benedict XVI is “deeply sorry” for the “angry reaction” to his recent remarks about Islam. Nice spin Pope. Won’t work though. That’s not quite the same as being sorry for THE actual remarks. Pope Benedict: Just what this world is in need of. Another crusading religious nut throwing gasoline on the fire that is the Middle East conflagration.

You got it. Il Papa has learned the American politician’s dodge of apologizing for other people taking offense at one’s own ill-conceived remarks.

He also says that he was just citing an obscure medieval source that has nothing to do with his own opinions. If so, then what was the rationale for making the offensive remarks at all? It wasn’t so Il Papa could decry the attitude exemplified by the medieval source, because he did nothing of the kind. Was it just some infallible brain fart making him throw the words of a Byzantine bigot into his speech for no real reason at all?

This isn’t an apology, it’s a PR dodge deserving of George Felix Allen (although Felix lacks the intellectual oomph to go quoting eight-hundred-year-old diatribes). Sadly for Il Papa, the initial reaction tells me that a lot of Muslims aren’t swallowing.

A scary sidebar: an AOL poll asks readers whether the remark was okay or not. 65% say yes, it was. Sampling issues notwithstanding, I suspect that that’s a pretty good guesstimate of the creep of Islamophobia into the American collective psyche.

Good morning, gang!

This Weak just came on here… I can’t believe we are even having the discussion about torture! This is America, after all..

good grief!

good morning, Tommy Yum!

lotus — why thank you…what I really enjoy is the parallel between the reintroduction of wolves and the effect on aspens, and the neo-cons’ war on Iraq, and its effect on the globe.

The law of unintended consequences writ both small and large.

cbl @ 130

per yesterday morning’s thread – many of us agreed something other than what we are being told is happening on this subject of torture

like McCain, Senator Hayseed said and did nothing on the Chimp’s signing statements to their anti torture bill a few months back, and now he’s publicly stating he’s willing to lose election on issue ?!?!

seriously, wtf is going on here – haven’t had time to be current in threads – why this very public pushback now ?

The simplist answer to “what’s going on here?” is that the three Republicans actually believe what they say: McCain because he understands that prisoner treatment rules actually matter; Graham because he believes in the JAG rule of law; and Warner because he agrees with his own military, including Powell, that Bush policy poses risks for US forces. Recall that when “torture” came up for a vote, the Senate voted 90-9 against. That’s as close as you get to a national consensus in these nutty times.

If you want a political calculation, even the Republicans understand that if they go along with the President on this issue they get hammered in political ads as (1) unthinking rubber stamps even when it hurts US prestige, and (2) pro-torture and (3) inviting another Abu Grhaib. Toxic issues.

What this is telling us, IMO, is that the “terror” issue is more than one issue, and it’s not all pro-Bush. The public may support Bush on the general terror issue, because he’s perceied as fighting WOT, but they do not support using torture and phony trials, even against captured terrorist.

What’s interesting is that what is happening was predictable, given prior votes and the slamming Bush’s JARs and support for the war took after Abu Grhaib. But they went ahead anyway — Is Rove a genious or an idiot?

Hadley on CNN re article 3 – “We’re not REdefining it because nobody knows what it means.”

did I hear that correctly?

LindyH @ 117

Molly Ivins remembering Ann Richards

… how close laughter and tears can be…

Beautiful! Thanks for the link

twolf1 @ 148

Hadley on CNN re article 3 – “We’re not REdefining it because nobody knows what it means.”

did I hear that correctly?

The Geneva Conventions were not written by a monkey with a typewriter. I’m not so sure I can say the same for this administration’s REdefinition.

Hi Tommy Yum, how goes it?

op99 @ 129

I’ve forgotten why David Corn landed on our shit list previously. PJs Media for one thing; anything else?

Viveca Novak, his lying ass BFF

twolf1 @ 151

Hi Tommy Yum, how goes it?

Well. Had a bit of a late one last night, now having a quiet morning with the sweetums.

lotus @ 134

wolves > elks > aspens

Fascinating, Rayne. Jeez, all the ways my mind is richer for its proximity to yours — dang!

no kiddin’ – here I was being silly, and Rayne alerts me to yet another subversive organization, as well as clueing me in on the broader ecosystem issues which might have contributed. No doubt you’re right on the Aspen Strategy Group part; only time will tell on the rest.

thanks for the info.

What kind of bird is that in the picture posted this morning??? Very pretty.

Madison Guy — All althouse wants is attention. The fact that she’s being intellectually dishonest doesn’t matter. Do not click through and give her the satisfaction. It’s truly just a pathetic ploy for attention at the expense of whatever and whomeevr she has to smear. Pitiful.

Rayne @ 143

lotus — why thank you…what I really enjoy is the parallel between the reintroduction of wolves and the effect on aspens, and the neo-cons’ war on Iraq, and its effect on the globe.

The law of unintended consequences writ both small and large.

well put, and I should have noted that the thanks for the info above was for you (not that I don’t get plenty of info from lotus as well).

lotus @
69

[NYT]Editorial

Bush Untethered

Watching the president on Friday in the Rose Garden as he threatened to quit interrogating terrorists if Congress did not approve his detainee bill, we were struck by how often he acts as though there were not two sides to a debate. We have lost count of the number of times he has said Americans have to choose between protecting the nation precisely the way he wants, and not protecting it at all.

On Friday, President Bush posed a choice between ignoring the law on wiretaps, and simply not keeping tabs on terrorists. Then he said the United States could rewrite the Geneva Conventions, or just stop questioning terrorists. To some degree, he is following a script for the elections: terrify Americans into voting Republican. But behind that seems to be a deeply seated conviction that under his leadership, America is right and does not need the discipline of rules. He does not seem to understand that the rules are what makes this nation as good as it can be. […]

He also doesn’t seem to understand that we have three branches to the government. If the judiciary strikes something down for being unconstitutional, they’re not being “kooky” or acting out of line. They’re doing their damned job. And if the legislature disagrees with you George, they aren’t out of line either. They’re allowed to.

I can’t believe how unbelievably petulant and stupid he seems. Didn’t he take freshman American Government 101 in college? Maybe, in the future, presidential candidates should have to post their transcripts online somewhere. And maybe take a little quiz.

immanentize @ 152

op99 @ 129

I’ve forgotten why David Corn landed on our shit list previously. PJs Media for one thing; anything else?

Viveca Novak, his lying ass BFF

Ah, yes, it all comes back now.

Scarecrow,

I sincerely appreciate your response –

and . . .

Recall that when “torture” came up for a vote, the Senate voted 90-9 against. That’s as close as you get to a national consensus in these nutty times.

not one of the 90 said anything when WH flipped them all off with signing statements contradicting/contravening (sp?)their legistlation – so that takes care of any ethical qualms

maybe they really are so weak that it took Powell’s letter to give them ‘permission’

but suspect your thoughts on it’s politcal nature is where we’ll eventually find the truth

TBogg on Althouse

http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2006…..ow_16.html

op99 @ 126

I’ve forgotten why David Corn landed on our shit list previously. PJs Media for one thing; anything else?

see Marcy Wheeler’s discussions of his book Hubris
methinks he’s too close to the events to be an objective reporter
methinks he’s covering for a number of folks… the other Novak, now Armitage

but ew is the expert
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c……html#more

Hi everybody. Boy, today’s WaPo on voting is a horror show or what? WTF are we gonna do?

I’m sorry about global warming Al, but the theft of the U.S. electoral system should have been your sole and only issue from 12/13/00. Les coups d’etat tend to put things like global warming – or anything that interferes with Carlyle profits – off the radar…

HAVA, what a fucking crock, the ultimate repuke/ corporate cynical blow-upon-a-bruise after election 2k.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 153

Madison Guy — All althouse wants is attention. The fact that she’s being intellectually dishonest doesn’t matter. Do not click through and give her the satisfaction. It’s truly just a pathetic ploy for attention at the expense of whatever and whomeevr she has to smear. Pitiful.

I have a Firefox extension called Cooliris previews, which brings up a smaller pic of the target page of a link when you place the cursor over it. I don’t know if it counts on Sitemeter, but that’s what I use for sites like hers. (pretty handy otherwise, too)

also, I know people probably can’t afford anything like this right now, but I saw the most beautiful window bird-feeder designs in the posh pet catalogue. They have two which fit thru the window and allow the birds to cross the sill. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/…..cfm?N=2005 112978

cbl — It may be true that not one of the 90 who voted against torture spoke up about the signing statement. But it may also be true that those who spoke up and/or were upset were simply not reported. As I recall, the fact that Bush issued a signing statement was reported some time after the bill’s signing, and was not reported nationally — was it Charlie Savage in the Boston Globe? – so it took a while for the fact to filter through the system. By that time, a few pundits picked it up, but not many. So we don’t really know what the reactions of the 90 senators were. I find it hard to believe the McCain’s or Levin’s response was “okay, no big deal.” It’s sad, but we can’t rely on the trad/media to tell us stuff.

absentee ballots anyone?

Christy Hardin Smith @
156

Madison Guy — All althouse wants is attention. The fact that she’s being intellectually dishonest doesn’t matter. Do not click through and give her the satisfaction. It’s truly just a pathetic ploy for attention at the expense of whatever and whomever she has to smear. Pitiful.

I rarely do this, but I am gonna today, because of how much I think of my recently departed friend and how little I think of Ann Althouse. At the end of the previous thread I wrote:

This most amazing woman, Catherine, a colleague of mine, died last Thursday. She had been teaching law for 45 years! She was the only woman in her 1957 law school class and, not surprisingly, she was the valedictorian. Only 5′2, but scary as all get out to her first year students — until they realized what a caring softee there was underneath the Kingsly (Paper Chase) imitation. Yeah, she taught contracts as well. Tough as all get out and twice as fun — sort of Ann Richards like, but raised in Boston and more sedate. Broke her hip in Cuba a year back travelling in a law exchange program when she was 72. The apocryphal story was she fell off the table at 3 a.m. after too many mojitos.

Just thought I’d share that bit in order to recall how, not so long ago, women were just absolutely excluded from everything. I am sure Ann Althouse has experienced some discrimination, and she certainly has heard stories like Catherine’s. She needs to ponder both how lucky she is to be a law professor today AND how fucked and damaging her catty physical yuckity-yuck post is to women everywhere who have not fallen into such a cushy position.

When did the Geneva Conventions suddenly become vague? They didn’t seem vague when they were ratified. And I don’t understand the administration’s surprise that, in a war, the Geneva Conventions apply. Hell, even Col. Klink from Hogan’s Heroes understood that.

BQ @ 108

alittlemusicalityplease @ 74

John Yoo is spinning like a top in today’s NYT:

Bush is trying to make “reinvigorating the presidency his priority.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09…..ref=slogin

(Don’t know if this is behind the firewall but it’s worth a read – but not on an empty stomach.)

not behind the wall – thanks for the link to Yoo, I’ll save it for when I’m feeling up to his games of ethical ‘Twister’

have to note that I am pleased to recognize another Strictly Ballroom fan.

Absolutely one of my favorite films. “A life lived in fear is a life half lived.” Boy– now’s the time to drive that message home.

Graham – I have respect for his understanding, but I haven’t seen much from him on execution over the years. That’s what has been frustrating with watching the Judiciary Committtee – he’s obviously a much sharper lawyer than Hatch or Specter, but although he clearly sees the holes, he’s just used that to be more devious in covering up for Bush and getting him around them – stupid Bush hasn’t followed any of his leads though.

Hadley statements, tied to the earlier Bush, Rumsfeld, Administration statements about GITMO and detainees -make for a remarkable amplitude of incoherence.

So when it comes to catching people on the battlefield, we treat them as POWs. But these guys [presumably meaning the 14 of the 96 we are coughing up]weren’t caught on the battlefield, they are il*leg*al com*bat*ants

OK – how many times have Rumsfeld and others said that the “worst of the worst” there in GITMO (where apparently they didn’t keep the worst of the worst after all) were detained on the battlefield and there has never been anything about GITMO that complies with the Geneva COnventions.

But they have claimed the same “illegal” or “enemy” combatants theory also. Except that, by definition, to be an illegal combatant you have to have violated the laws of war. So how do you have 100s and 100s of illegal combatants, but no one you can charge with a violation of the laws of war – oh, wait, maybe 10? And of those, the case that goes to the Sup Ct goes up on a charge – conspiracy – that is not a stand alone violation or chargeable offense under the laws of war.

This whole thing isn’t just about torture, and I don’t mean the ‘just’ in a dismissive way – torture is the heart and egregiousness of it. But more than that, what is going on involves taking the DNA from criminal justice, military justice, no justice and injustice, sloppily mixing them together in a morass that no common or codified law has ever seen or allowed, and then trying to sprinkle the holy water of “America is good” over it to save its soul.

So now, is someone who contributes to an Islamic charity an “enemy combatant?” How about if they contribute to PETA? How about if they know that cousin’s son has been to Pakistan? Is someone who launders money an enemy combatant? Are money laundering and charitable contributions that may support terrorism now crimes under the UCMJ that are triable by military commissions? We are willing to change the law that far? That wholesale?

Secret evidence as a basis to secretly kidnap a US citizen and take to GITMO and try them by a military commission as an illegal combatant under charges, like money laundering, that have never been military offenses? How is it a violation of military justice?

This isn’t about “war” v. “Crime” – it is about conflating and confounding all the rules and mixing in non-rules and no rules, none of which are drafted with truth or coherence in mind and all of which are geared towards being able to do things that are crimes and illegal and cover them up. The President isn’t tinkering with military commissions bc we are “at war” and so the approach should be a military justice approach – he is tinkering with military commissions bc he thinks (and YOo has probably assured him) that as CIC he can do anything he wants with impunity as long as he does it through military channels. So rewire the military procedure into an unrecognizable molten mass of unworkable wiring and then, instead of changing the Crim Justice approach (anymore than the Patriot Act has already defaced and scarred it) just kidnap people and put them into the new improved military system.

Torture is only one part of the repellant whole.

Good morning, Just a friendly reminder This Week is brought to you by ABC, Mickey Mouse and Disney.

From an article in Newsweek:

Going forward, the pope could usefully consult the words of another powerful Christian leader: “And given that Islam and Christianity worship the one God, Creator of heaven and earth, there is ample room for agreement and cooperation between them,” the leader said three months after September 11. “A clash ensues only when Islam or Christianity is misconstrued or manipulated for political or ideological ends.” The leader? John Paul II.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14…..ek/page/3/

Hi everybody,

Just two comments:

1. Much as I don’t really care for Joe Scarborough, he does have a very well thought out column today (link above at Twisted Martini #15). It’s always good to know your opponent and his strategy. Joe lays it out pretty good: not only what Republicans should do but how they think (especially the remark about comparing Faux President Fuckwad to Former President Carter). The column made me wonder if Scarborough actually writes his columns or if he has an assistant who does the actual writing. Maybe Joe does it himself, in which case he’s at least to be respected for that. Sometimes I think we’re so inclined to denigrate our opponents (I know I’m guilty of that) that we get cocky and then they sucker punch us. I’m pretty sure that’s what happened to Al Gore in 2000…..

PS – the AP article answers, IMO, part of the NYT earlier editorial re: Why the rush?

The rush is that no one has an olc opinion anymore (not that they were worth the paper written on before IMO) and part of the Geneva Conventions problems involve taking detainees and holding them in foreign countries. So they have to cought them up or be involved in a very KNOWING and ONGOING criminal violation of the War Crimes act. Once you cough them up – you want cover as fast as you can get it.

BTW – no one is asking what happened to the other 82 from the AP article. Such horrible “worst of the worst” guys — why aren’t we bringing them in for trial?

I saw Jon Stewart “in concert” last night. LMAO, funny as hell, but it was more the “stop hurting America” Jon rather than Daily Show Jon. He was almost Bill Hicksian in places. I’m tellin ya, the void left by Hicks is still so huge and screaming, and the times so much worsened, that all thinking/biting comics are moving in that direction.

Defining the proscriptions in Common Article III will result in something akin to the attempt to define what makes an assault rifle. Let’s see now, bayonet mount-check, high capacity magazine-check, pistol grip-check, and etc. The manufacturers promptly redesigned their product around those proscriptions.

The same will happen with a definition of the abuses not allowed in the Article. Only practices that are disallowed can be prosecuted. We could see water boarding continuing because “hey we didn’t use a board, it was a tree limb” circumlocutions.

The “lack of clarity” is a feature, not a bug.

alittlemusicalityplease#=@166

Absolutely one of my favorite films. “A life lived in fear is a life half lived.” Boy– now’s the time to drive that message home.

Amen.
Doncha wish Luhrman would release a DVD with extras so we could see the Paso Doble in its entirety just once? sigh – i love that film.

looseheadprop @ 87

Hadley unable to answer any of Stephy’s questions about how this legislation would afffect captured Delta Force (non-uniformed)

Claims that DOD and all the geerals support this?

?????

This is important, I think.

Stephanopolous asked his question; Hadley evaded it; and Steph didn’t bring him back to it. Failed to pin him down. Failed to ask the question.

I saw Hadley make his “POWs in uniform” argument also on CNN, and Wolfie didn’t even make the Delta Force (etc., including CIA) argument that Stephie did.

on MTP, Webb is holding his own. Allen of course is a parrot and Webb and Tommy both aren’t letting him get away with talking points. Webb has not been shy about interrupting to nail him or to get the last word in.

Oops – Timmy is slamming Webb over his long ago words about women in military.

njr @ 162

see Marcy Wheeler’s discussions of his book Hubris
methinks he’s too close to the events to be an objective reporter
methinks he’s covering for a number of folks… the other Novak, now Armitage

but ew is the expert
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c……html#more

I had read that post plus comments, and didn’t remember Marcy explicitly bashing Corn. Are you saying it’s implicit in her “cocktail weenie class?” Sorry, I don’t glean that from that particular post. Is she more explicit elsewhere that I missed?

McLaughlin Group –

Pat Buchanan: Nuclear bomb planted in the middle of Manhattan. You’ve got to do everything you can to find out about it before it blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eleanor Clift: Then why is it that all the military on the other side are against it? It’s because they know that torture “isn’t designed to get information, it’s designed to get confessions.”

Yuck. Webb’s positions on women in the military… terrible! I was in one of the first batches of women who were allowed in the regular Coast Guard and doing “non-traditional” work (a boat driver not a secretary)…

That nonsense about women not having leadership ability! I fought that every step of the way… my observation was that I didn’t have problems with leadership with enlisted who were my juniors, my problems stemmed from the men above me who would try to sabotage my work or my advancement…

Immanentize 167 – thanks and that’s what I love about these weekend AM wandering threads.

I’ll never forget a construction laborer job I had around 1972 – at the time I thought being a baby feminist meant you should go invade construction laborhood – and our foreman was this gal whose no-nonsense strength and ability every single person was in awe of. Most amazing of all (to me), she wore two buttons on her clothing: Come Out and Gay is Good. By then I was finally out to myself, but that kind of flat out hello-this-is-me-and-fuck-you-assholes courage was still like from Mars to me.

Hope you’re still out there inspiring, Ann. That was her name.

Both John McLaughlin and Pat Buchanan are saying the the US has committed a whole litany of WAR CRIMES

Mary at 170 “Torture is only one part of the repellant whole.”

I think you’re right. They’ve made all the arguments that would allow them to kidnap me or you, for what we’ve written here, render us to Gitmo, and from then on, we’re in that system of non-law with no resort to civilian law.

A disquiting thing about the “three good senators” vs the “bad president” thing is that it’s covering up the problems in the McCain/Graham bill — such as eliminating habeas corpus and providing retroactive cover for past war crimes. Graham is good at the details, portraying himself as a defender of due process, and then quietly disabling judicial oversight and accountability on the big stuff. Even Specter picked that up on one of the shows. Of course, Glenn Greenwald has been hammering Specter for outright lying about his own bill on warrantless surveillance.

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot…..html#links

Vale Catherine.

***********

Pat Buchanan: Nuclear bomb planted in the middle of Manhattan. You’ve got to do everything you can to find out about it before it blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK Pat – you torture the guy, he breaks down and tells you, you rush there and “oops, I think he lied” poof.

You now, we’ve been holding these guys for YEARS. That nuke has a really long time setting.

Now, how about this – Nuclear bomb planted in middle of Manhattan. You know this because —- uh, let’s not go into that, but surely, like, the same guys who told you about Hussein’s WMDS are there to tell you that it’s a slam dunk that nuke is there and set to blow.

So you grab a) the crazy guy and torture each of his personalities, and b) the German guy whose name “sounds like” someone else’s – then you torture the snot out of them. Turns out there was no nuke after all, although both told you all about it after being waterboarded and told they needed to tell us all about it. That was helpful -um, how exactly?

Sharkbabe @ 183

I’ll never forget a construction laborer job I had around 1972 – at the time I thought being a baby feminist meant you should go invade construction laborhood – and our foreman was this gal whose no-nonsense strength and ability every single person was in awe of. Most amazing of all (to me), she wore two buttons on her clothing: Come Out and Gay is Good. By then I was finally out to myself, but that kind of flat out hello-this-is-me-and-fuck-you-assholes courage was still like from Mars to me.

Hope you’re still out there inspiring, Ann. That was her name.

I’m going to repeat a comment I made yesterday at what, apparently, the end of the morning thread.

During the early 70’s, my Mom was watching a news broadcast about a “women’s lib” march. (Preface: I’m the oldest of four girls.) She said: “I don’t like all this bra burning, but you know how your dad and me always tell you girls you can be anything you want to be? Well, now you really can.”

Mary on Huck Graham: “obviously a much sharper lawyer than Hatch or Specter, but although he clearly sees the holes, he’s just used that to be more devious in covering up for Bush and getting him around them – stupid Bush hasn’t followed any of his leads though.”

I’m reading my way through that comment, Mary, but have to pause to ask this:

I just wonder whether the WH ever pays any attention at all to what Senate-critters, even R ones, say. I get the impression that BushCo, certainly Chimpy himself, disregard anything from Capitol Hill “with extreme prejudice” and just auto-turn a deaf ear … as if they were grownups driving past a schoolyard and registering general sound from the playground, but not listening to any given child’s shouts of “Hey! Stop! Don’t run over my mama!”

scarecrow @185 – I haven’t seen the shows, but you and I are absolutely on the same page with this:

A disquiting thing about the “three good senators” vs the “bad president” thing is that it’s covering up the problems in the McCain/Graham bill — such as eliminating habeas corpus and providing retroactive cover for past war crimes. Graham is good at the details, portraying himself as a defender of due process, and then quietly disabling judicial oversight and accountability on the big stuff.

Graham has been so sly on so much -and there you end up with the “heroic effort” bill that seemingly doesn’t really allow torture and secret evidence, but gives amnesty for everything that was done and allows for the mind boggling “enemy combatant” approach applied across huge swathes of things that would never have been violations of military justice before, and allows for no habeas and secret detentions and interrogations etc.

It sets up a situation where they can “fight” but notreallyallthatmuch. And everyone is so relieved to get something that is less “in your face” than pro-torture sentiments endorsed by Congress, that they grab for it with greed.

and it’s over – thankfully. Allen repeated himself on the macaca thing – apologize and then make excuses; like he didn’t know what word meant. And he wouldn’t pledge to 6 years as senator – LOL

lhp — amazing. War crimes. Now Pat Buch- is saying that “stay the course” means losing both Afghan and Iraq wars. The rightwing heads must be exploding.

What Dems need to be worrying about is why, given the fact that the Bush Administration and its Republican/neocon supporters (including JoeL) have brought us to this horrendous moment — losing an arguably necessary war and losing an unnecessary war that they lied us into, there is not an overwhelming clamor for throwing the Republicans out of office. Why are we still wondering if we can even gain only 15 seats in the house, and why is retaking the Senate at best a remote possibility?

I can’t think of a stronger indictment of the Democratic leadership and their pathetic message than the current low prospects for a massive repudiation of the Republican regime. It’s like they’re throwing the election.

New thread gang. Sorry, this one took me a while — between The Peanut and the vast reading this one took me to do this morning, I’m running a little slowly today.

I’m sure someone out there has made this point but I haven’t seen it.

In his 9/11 “largely Cuisinarted scraps from other recent political speeches” remarks [nod to Frank Rich], Bush said global terrorism was a battle for civilization.

So, here we have the Geneva Conventions, which set forth basic, essential standards for the civilized treatment of human beings, standards that are honored by virtually every civilized nation on earth.

And then we have Yoo and Abu-G. and Bush, who want to LOWER the standards (which they say are quaint, archaic) and indoing so grant themselves a license to torture.

In which case the greatest threat to civilization is right here at home.

Pat Buchanan: Nuclear bomb planted in the middle of Manhattan. You’ve got to do everything you can to find out about it before it blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, what, now we’re taking policy advice from freakin’ episodes of “24?” If the administration is using fictional TV shows as policy guidelines, why don’t we follow the Geneva Convention guidelines as laid out in Hogan’s Heroes, then?

Oh, and memo to Pat: in that episode of 24 where Bauer made a chest taser out of a hotel lamp, and tortured that guy, the torture did not actually achieve anything.

Hadley was a constant flow of desperate and incomplete justifications for a clearly illegal policy. The administration is clearly striving to retroactively clear policies that qualify them for war crimes trials. Their fear is palpable in the change of tone. Ever notice that only ungracious choices warrant justification? Gracious choices simply benefit from explanation.

Rayne, @ 146, what if their are no unintended consequences. I observe that there is a process to playing with concepts that might be appreciated as the Law of Grace:

1] ‘Grace’ is the awareness that choice aligns with benefit for purposes of appreciation.
2] ‘Gracious’ is the demonstration of this awareness.
3] This is the Law of Grace:
All Choice generates Benefit for Purposes of
Appreciation.
4] Gracious choices generate benevolence for sharing.
Ungracious choices generate instructive consequences that remind One that a more gracious choice was missed in the taking.
Both benevolence and instructive consequence might be graciously appreciated.
5] The Golden Rule is ‘golden’ not because it guarantees ‘good’ behavior, but rather because it guarantees ‘gracious’ behavior when honored.
One ‘feels good’ about gracious choices. One ‘feels less than good’ about ungracious choices.
6] Gracious is the opposite of evil, not good. Evil is in fact an ungracious assessment of ungracious choices, inviting instructive consequences with its use.

‘Unintended consequences writ both small and large’ are always instructive consequences that might be graciously appreciated. To dismiss them as unintended is to avoid the question of responsibility and appreciate the opportunity to resolve them.

Clarity may be found in appreciating world circumstances through this perspective. For One, unintended consequences suddenly demonstrate purpose in their frequent appearance
in national and world affairs. There is no more ungracious a concept than ‘the unintended consequences of acceptable collateral damage.’

Dubya Bush is the least gracious man to ever hold the office of president. He is supported by a small group of ungracious men who have assisted Dubya in lying to a gracious nation. We might, as a gracious nation, learn from the instructive consequences of our choices.

Might it be time to get clear on the connections in these concepts? One hopes so. More will.

scarecrow @ 191

lhp — amazing. War crimes. Now Pat Buch- is saying that “stay the course” means losing both Afghan and Iraq wars. The rightwing heads must be exploding.

On the subject of right-wingers making other right-wingers heads go boom, here’s what Andrew Sullivan had to say last night:

“There is already clarity in the law, the Geneva Convention, and the McCain Amendment. What the Bush administration wants is to introduce vagueness to get away with exactly the same barabarism they have deploying illegally for the past five years. They must be stopped. And eventually, they must be prosecuted for war crimes.”

lotus – I think they do too. But Graham has tried to save their butt on numerous occassions and even got Levin to sign off on and co-sponsor his prior attempts to disenfranchise judicial review (remember the “anti-torture” bill also said – let’s not have the court look at what we’ve been doing in GITMO”

Smart enough to know better makes me angrier than someone like Grassley who is plainly just lost and out of his depth.

When you look at what McCain and Graham are doing now, it needs to be with the filter of what they did with the anti-torture (but hey, let’s not let a court decide, ‘Kay?) prior legislation.

There is also the fact that by not following the Art3 provisions, we took this situation where everyone pretty much looked like a civilian so there were huge issues on having any real knowledge about whether they were or were not enemy combatants, and refused to have section 5 hearings – real, honest to God hearings. So all the things that you “approve” for enemy combatants – one question remains as to whether they are also “vague” or “ok” as applied to wrongfully kidnapped and detained civilians.

Goldsmith, as part of the same brain trust that brought us the “we don’t have to follow the Geneva Conventions if we don’t want to” cartel, has recently joined with his Posner (and even combined, the two of them are a much lesser evil than the Other Posner) and done a WaPo piece about how what is really needed in GITMO is (and here, you have to think they were Gobsmacked by Jove) “real” status review tribunals (or commissions).

Well Lordy Lordy boys, why didn’t anyone think of something like that when, oh, say, American and other countries were putting together the Geneva Conventions and ….

oh wait – uh, yeah, they DID already put that in – Sec 5(I think, without looking up, that’s right). The only reason to have to write your “ever thoughtful” heartfelt concern troll op piece is that YOU GUYS SAID that no one had to follow the Geneva Conventions. Is that the closest you can come to a mea culpa? If so – go join Pope Benedict in the line up for the lame excuse prizes.

BC now everyone is just a little bit concerned about the fact that the incompetent in office never really made sure that it was “enemy combatants” who were exempted. And international conventions or not, it is flat out a crime (war crime or not) to kidnap people and assault, torture, falsely imprison, etc. them.

And the people who solicited that activity – ?

Heaven forbid that Congress should call an end to illegally trolling the domestic and international landscape for kidnap victims and hoping that they are actually “enemy combatants” Or that you can cover up what you’ve done if they are not.

Mary, would this cover Gitmo, as Cuba is a foreign country?

Mary @ 174

PS – the AP article answers, IMO, part of the NYT earlier editorial re: Why the rush?

The rush is that no one has an olc opinion anymore (not that they were worth the paper written on before IMO) and part of the Geneva Conventions problems involve taking detainees and holding them in foreign countries. So they have to cought them up or be involved in a very KNOWING and ONGOING criminal violation of the War Crimes act. Once you cough them up – you want cover as fast as you can get it.

BTW – no one is asking what happened to the other 82 from the AP article. Such horrible “worst of the worst” guys — why aren’t we bringing them in for trial?

Thanks, always appreciate your legal analysis.

Twisted Martini @ 163

absentee ballots anyone?

I like the paper part, but how do we make them count the things?

HotFlash @ 199

Twisted Martini @ 163

absentee ballots anyone?

I like the paper part, but how do we make them count the things?

What if a political operative picks up/sorts the mail? What is to prevent them from “disappearing” ballots from “unfriendly” zip codes? Are there safeguards in place to prevent this?

I was watching the talking heads this morning and had a question.

Is Bush really concerned about the torture provisions of the Geneva Convention or is he really concerned with pushing through immunity from prosecution for war crimes via an international tribunal?

http://dontbealemming.com/2006…..to-me.aspx

Posted by the Lemming Herder from Don’t Be A Lemming!

op99 @
200

HotFlash @ 199

Twisted Martini @ 163

absentee ballots anyone?

I like the paper part, but how do we make them count the things?

What if a political operative picks up/sorts the mail? What is to prevent them from “disappearing” ballots from “unfriendly” zip codes? Are there safeguards in place to prevent this?

OK, found this. Now to find out what the safeguards are. Op99, if you or anyone else think this is topical, could you pls move it to the next thread? Ta!

egregious @198 – no, bc of the unique status of our facility there – an American BASE in Cuba, so it has autonomy on its grounds (and is how the court determined to start with in Rashul that habeas extends to GITMO – another wrong call by OLC.

The Geneva Conventions are vague only to Dick Cheney, but that’ll happen after five deferments.

You know, alot of the detainees that came from Iraq, couldn’t have been terrorists given what we now know about the relationship between Saddam before the war. Those folks caught early on could not have been al queda. That’s disgusting. Who knows who those people were but many of them were obviously innocent and held for way too long. That will be an issue as well I am sure. I mean, they were caught between a rock and a hard place when they let several hundred go after 2 years!! Released because they weren’t guilty .

Holy cow…this could get really ugly…it was ugly, we just couldn’t stand up to this moron. I feel very ashamed.

trial