Yo, TRex!

I couldn’t have been the only one who laughed when reading Kerry extremely tardy bravado

Couldn’t have said it any better than you did TRex, nice job

The TRex is in the house!

When in doubt, windsurf.

I. Do. Not. Want. To. See. Kerry. Run. For. President. Ever. Again.

Do I make myself clear? Gore, yes, oh God yes. But Kerry ran the ultimate clueless loser campaign. He hired Rand Beers, a disaffected Bush national security guy, and then proceeded to not say a damn word about how pathetic Bush’s national security performance really was, except for a brief mention in one of the debates.

Lame.

Kerry is like one of those kids that talk big until the moment of the real fight which they just can’t seem to stomach. Too many years spent trying to be the nice guy, trying to play in the middle and be everyones friend. i don’t know how he thinks he’d even have a chance at the nomination, never mind…….

He could do a lot of good in 08… from the sidelines, NOT as a candidate!

cameronga @ 6

Kerry is like one of those kids that talk big until the moment of the real fight which they just can’t seem to stomach. Too many years spent trying to be the nice guy, trying to play in the middle and be everyones friend.

Remember when he was talking about what a great closer he was?

Hi Trex,

I’m still hopping mad about the ‘IMPERIAL LIFE IN THE EMERALD CITY’ revelation. Going back downstairs to see if I can figure out the Spotlight thing ; )

And yes, FUCK KERRY

TRex –
After reading this post I think you’ve got the fearless part worked out (however you managed it — and if you have tips, I’m listening).

Don’t forget when Kerry won in Iowa it was because he was “electable”. (sigh) The Democrats in 2008 need to pick someone who is willing to fight!

Never Again.

I am ashamed of John Kerry for not defending himself in 2004. When we needed some of that “ass-kicking” he talks about, we were instead treated to footage of him windsurfing on his extended August vacation.

I worked hard for John Kerry in 2004. In 2008, I will not vote for him. Even if he wins the nomination.

That said, I think Kerry is a fine Senator.

MAybe he should take a tip from his betters.

Kak @ 10

TRex –
After reading this post I think you’ve got the fearless part worked out (however you managed it — and if you have tips, I’m listening).

Don’t forget when Kerry won in Iowa it was because he was “electable”. (sigh) The Democrats in 2008 need to pick someone who is willing to fight!

Kerry would have been electable if he had had even half of a clue.

Anyway, this “I would *totally* fight them *this* time” crap just sounds transparently like bullshit to me.

Cozumel @ 9

Going back downstairs to see if I can figure out the Spotlight thing ; )

Let me know if you need some help.

The only thing I have to say to John Kerry is, get out of the way.

Taking The Lead In The Cluelessness Race

Barack Obama put up a strong challenge with his whiny performance at Tom Harkin’s hoedown, but Kerry just wiped the floor with him with this latest declaration.

The only advantage I can see is that none of these clowns is on the ballot this November. But next time they are, I think we need to give them a little bit of Liebermedicine.

Eli @ 14

Anyway, this “I would *totally* fight them *this* time” crap just sounds transparently like bullshit to me.

I agree with you — if he was willing to fight. It’s like the Washington Democrats don’t realize (and they should know better than anyone) that the Republicans will stoop to whatever level/do whatever they need to legal or illegal to win. It’s like Joe Lieberman looking always for the “compromise”. There isn’t one and hasn’t been for at least 6 years.
Oh, sorry
[/rant]

I have been flamed pretty badly when I said that I would not spit on Kerry if his ass was on fire…after his loss in 2004…. Yes I have bad feelings…. really BAD feelings….

I come from a family of three generations of Vets… his behavior was dishonorable to all Vets… In 2004, like tons of others… I volunteered to canvas, phone bank, I was the medical person at the AZ post debate rally, I managed a phone bank center for a month, took my vacation to work the campaign, I worked fulltime days and worked the campaign evenings and nights. I didnt see my kids for days(they are college age) and pretty much ran myself into the ground. NOT BRAGGING just stating why I am still pissed…. Kerry could come to my house and appologise personally and I still would be pissed.

Thousands of us worked our asses off, devoted our time, money, blood, sweat and tears to get Kerry elected and he betrayed us…. he would NOT stand up for us when we needed him. NEVER Again….. NEVER…

Ok… start flaming me….. I do not care

Paul Rosenberg @ 17

Taking The Lead In The Cluelessness Race

Barack Obama put up a strong challenge with his whiny performance at Tom Harkin’s hoedown, but Kerry just wiped the floor with him with this latest declaration.

The only advantage I can see is that none of these clowns is on the ballot this November. But next time they are, I think we need to give them a little bit of Liebermedicine.

Obama is becoming the master of the Process Speech. It’s like Ad Nags has a direct link right into his brain.

Ok… start flaming me….. I do not care

*crickets*

EPU’d and still trying to fix the missing linky!

Here’s something that’ll give me nightmares for sure:

— – An in-your-face documentary out this weekend is raising eyebrows, raising hackles and raising questions about evangelizing to young people.

Speaking in tongues, weeping for salvation, praying for an end to abortion and worshipping a picture of President Bush — these are some of the activities at Pastor Becky Fischer’s Bible camp in North Dakota, “Kids on Fire,” subject of the provocative new documentary, “Jesus Camp.”

“I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are in Palestine, Pakistan and all those different places,” Fisher said. “Because, excuse me, we have the truth.”

“A lot of people die for God,” one camper said, “and they’re not afraid.”

“We’re kinda being trained to be warriors,” said another, “only in a funner way.”

katymine @ 19

I have been flamed pretty badly when I said that I would not spit on Kerry if his ass was on fire…after his loss in 2004…. Yes I have bad feelings…. really BAD feelings….

I come from a family of three generations of Vets… his behavior was dishonorable to all Vets… In 2004, like tons of others… I volunteered to canvas, phone bank, I was the medical person at the AZ post debate rally, I managed a phone bank center for a month, took my vacation to work the campaign, I worked fulltime days and worked the campaign evenings and nights. I didnt see my kids for days(they are college age) and pretty much ran myself into the ground. NOT BRAGGING just stating why I am still pissed…. Kerry could come to my house and appologise personally and I still would be pissed.

Thousands of us worked our asses off, devoted our time, money, blood, sweat and tears to get Kerry elected and he betrayed us…. he would NOT stand up for us when we needed him. NEVER Again….. NEVER…

Ok… start flaming me….. I do not care

No, I’m totally with you. I think if he had pushed back properly then the whole Swift Boat tactic would have been invalidated, saving many subsequent smear-ees a lot of grief.

with kerry, i don’t think i can ever get past that one point in the ‘04 campaign when a reporter asked him, “knowing what you know now, would you still have voted to give bush authorization to use force?”, and he said yes… i literally threw the remote at the tv… useless

angie @ 22

EPU’d and still trying to fix the missing linky!

Here’s something that’ll give me nightmares for sure:

— – An in-your-face documentary out this weekend is raising eyebrows, raising hackles and raising questions about evangelizing to young people.

Speaking in tongues, weeping for salvation, praying for an end to abortion and worshipping a picture of President Bush — these are some of the activities at Pastor Becky Fischer’s Bible camp in North Dakota, “Kids on Fire,” subject of the provocative new documentary, “Jesus Camp.”

“I want to see them as radically laying down their lives for the gospel as they are in Palestine, Pakistan and all those different places,” Fisher said. “Because, excuse me, we have the truth.”

“A lot of people die for God,” one camper said, “and they’re not afraid.”

“We’re kinda being trained to be warriors,” said another, “only in a funner way.”

Yeah, I’ll set their kids on fire.

TRex, I’m sure I’m not alone when I tell you that I want to bear all your children.

Thank you for saying what desperately needed to be said.

-S

Didn’t Kerry walk off with like $8 mil in unspent donations? Or was that the $8 bil looted by the IPA?

On the other hand, all he did was lose an election. Your beloved Big Dog pissed away probably the only chance the country will ever have to recover from the radical repubs. What, he was afraid they’d try to drive him from office?

dachost,e @ 24

with kerry, i don’t think i can ever get past that one point in the ‘04 campaign when a reporter asked him, “knowing what you know now, would you still have voted to give bush authorization to use force?”, and he said yes… i literally threw the remote at the tv… useless

Yeah, that was the exact moment when I realized he had no clue.

maybe it’s just me, but as snark goes, this seems a bit overboard

It’s one thing to ask where his self-defense was two short years ago, but another entirely to take it where you went.

If this was supposed to be funny, the only people laughing are your hardcore fans.

All these clowns who think they can still cover their ass about Iraq are just out of their minds. They roll over every single day. They look like a bunch of squirrels who don’t talk to each other. Can’t coordinate a thing. Can’t find a message. Wouldn’t know strategy if it kissed them on their parched lips. It’s pathetic.
Trex, you picked a very hot button issue. It’s called betrayal.
360 betrayal.

dachost,e @ 24

with kerry, i don’t think i can ever get past that one point in the ‘04 campaign when a reporter asked him, “knowing what you know now, would you still have voted to give bush authorization to use force?”, and he said yes… i literally threw the remote at the tv… useless

Kerry said that here in Arizona… yep went over real well here…..

The very liberal Dems (yes we do have them here in AZ) and the Libertarians were just turned off. Many of my high efficy voters just did not vote that year….. WHY….. because Kerry would NOT make a stand against the war.

One of the engaging things about Paul Hackett was his way of pushing back. Murtha also does it.

My rule is…. If they hit you once, you slug them back twice with both fists…. because THAT is the only way they will get the message.

A fire breathing therapod? You da beast with da mostest! Flame on, good man– I have lots of sparkling water and lime over here to cool yer brow…

I worked with Sen. Kerry in the anti-war movement when he was with the VVAW. I volunteered for Sen. Kerry in the primaries and I volunteered during the election.

I thought he was the best candidate in the 2004 pack. I still think he was the best candidate in the 2004 pack. I thought, and think, he would be an outstanding President.

He is, however, a lousy candidate.

_sigh_

angie @ 32

A fire breathing therapod? You da beast with da mostest! Flame on, good man– I have lots of sparkling water and lime over here to cool yer brow…

Oh! Why, thank you.

I need some brainstorming help… I have a local state senator candidate who is running against the guy who wrote and sponsored the “Guns in Bars” bill and gets 100% of his campaign money from lobbists…. Anyway… I am trying to use the Lamont Kiss method… need an idea and visual to use for posters to use against the ReThug…

Any ideas?

Mark Steckel @ 15

Cozumel @ 9

Going back downstairs to see if I can figure out the Spotlight thing ; )

Let me know if you need some help.

Thanks, Mark. I just took a look and I haven’t got it yet, first time trying. I’ll try again in the morning

katymine @ 35

I need some brainstorming help… I have a local state senator candidate who is running against the guy who wrote and sponsored the “Guns in Bars” bill and gets 100% of his campaign money from lobbists…. Anyway… I am trying to use the Lamont Kiss method… need an idea and visual to use for posters to use against the ReThug…

Any ideas?

Do a “Brokeback Mountain” poster style shot of him with Dick Cheney. “Drunk-Shot Mountain”. Make Cheney look like he’s holding a smoking shotgun.

The guy is tied with our buddy JD Hayworth…. Make it Hayworth and you have it….. WOW I know if I just throw out the idea ……

He is, however, a lousy candidate.

That’s what I didn’t get. When he pulled the ad with McCain shaming Bush– because McCain asked him to? No Shame McCain? Kerry should have gone ballistic when those yahoos were runing around with the purple bandaids. That idiot woman at the convention should have been the poster child for Kerry 04. But if you don’t fight, people think there’s fire under that smoke…

katymine @ 35

I need some brainstorming help… I have a local state senator candidate who is running against the guy who wrote and sponsored the “Guns in Bars” bill and gets 100% of his campaign money from lobbists…. Anyway… I am trying to use the Lamont Kiss method… need an idea and visual to use for posters to use against the ReThug…

Any ideas?

You talking about the guy who can’t tell the constitution from a how-to-play-golf book?

Amen, TRex! Kerry can just go F**k himself — because he has no cojones whatsoever. For anyone’s complaints that Al Gore did not sufficiently fight back in 2000 — Kerry didn’t even wait until the polls closed to concede! (as you point out). Al Gore is a total mensch; Kerry a meshuga.

Kerry rush to concede defeat — in the face of mounting evidence — that’s since been proved true — that there was rampant poll & vote manipulation in Ohio, leads me to believe that Kerry (and many if not most Democrats) are sadly just stand-ins, who when the real owners of our political system (who have no party and could care less which person or party is elected, so long as they make $$$$$$$) say, okay, it’s George’s turn again, just say, “Yassah massa” and turn away.

When I saw that happen, me & my sig. other moved to New Zealand. That was it for us. I’m back in Texas for business (and stuck here for a while) but have permanent residency in NZ and will return ASAP, preferably before the Rethuglicans once again seal their lock grip on the country through illegal vote manipulation and rampant propoganda. What a fucking waste of a really great country…. it makes me so sad.

Both Gore and Kerry ran very poor campaigns. Of the two, Kerry’s was the worse. I was in Oregon in early August, 2004, when both Kerry and Bush were there. Bush was scampering from one secure staged event to another, and Kerry was doing public meetings in Eugene and Springfield, and a huge public speech at a park on an Island in the Wilamette in Portland. He was like a friggin’ rock star.

After both 2000 and 2004 it was plainly obvious that of the majority of disenfranchised voters in the most thrown parts of the elections were African Americans. Black congressmen and women protested loudly. But in both cases, the Dem machine failed to either address the problems immediately or seek remedies for future elections which were pragmatic.

Did Kerry even show up at Conyers’ hearings to thank him?

Cozumel @ 36

Mark Steckel @ 15

Cozumel @ 9

Going back downstairs to see if I can figure out the Spotlight thing ; )

Let me know if you need some help.

Thanks, Mark. I just took a look and I haven’t got it yet, first time trying. I’ll try again in the morning

The overall gist is a) pick who you want to sent the post to, b) add your own comment and c) review and send.

The help window/page provides additional info. If not, the contact page has email address that you can use to get to me off-list.

If something doesn’t make sense or seems confusing I’d love to know it so I can change things if required.

Ed*ard Teller @ 42

After both 2000 and 2004 it was plainly obvious that of the majority of disenfranchised voters in the most thrown parts of the elections were African Americans. Black congressmen and women protested loudly. But in both cases, the Dem machine failed to either address the problems immediately or seek remedies for future elections which were pragmatic.

And they still haven’t.

It’s like they have a death wish.

ATinNM @
33

I worked with Sen. Kerry in the anti-war movement when he was with the VVAW. I volunteered for Sen. Kerry in the primaries and I volunteered during the election.

I thought he was the best candidate in the 2004 pack. I still think he was the best candidate in the 2004 pack. I thought, and think, he would be an outstanding President.

He is, however, a lousy candidate.

_sigh_

I’m not sure, but I think the time has passed when we can make that kind of distinction.

meta @ 45

ATinNM @
33

I worked with Sen. Kerry in the anti-war movement when he was with the VVAW. I volunteered for Sen. Kerry in the primaries and I volunteered during the election.

I thought he was the best candidate in the 2004 pack. I still think he was the best candidate in the 2004 pack. I thought, and think, he would be an outstanding President.

He is, however, a lousy candidate.

_sigh_

I’m not sure, but I think the time has passed when we can make that kind of distinction.

I personally thought he would be a mediocre one-term president. Still voted for him, tho.

nsr @ 39

Beats the heck outta me why Kerry rolled over for those Swiftboat baiting scum. That’s not the guy I knew back when.

katymine @ 19

I have been flamed pretty badly when I said that I would not spit on Kerry if his ass was on fire…after his loss in 2004…. Yes I have bad feelings…. really BAD feelings….

I come from a family of three generations of Vets… his behavior was dishonorable to all Vets… In 2004, like tons of others… I volunteered to canvas, phone bank, I was the medical person at the AZ post debate rally, I managed a phone bank center for a month, took my vacation to work the campaign, I worked fulltime days and worked the campaign evenings and nights. I didnt see my kids for days(they are college age) and pretty much ran myself into the ground. NOT BRAGGING just stating why I am still pissed…. Kerry could come to my house and appologise personally and I still would be pissed.

Thousands of us worked our asses off, devoted our time, money, blood, sweat and tears to get Kerry elected and he betrayed us…. he would NOT stand up for us when we needed him. NEVER Again….. NEVER…

Ok… start flaming me….. I do not care

Actually, I am the one who will probably get flamed. I was disappointed in Kerry’s performance in 2004 in many ways, but I would not judge him as harshly as some here have.

The fact is, he almost won, and you don’t do that in a sharply divided country, running against an incumbent president with a smart bastard like Rove and megabucks behind him, without doing a lot of things right.

I don’t think Kerry fully understood, until too late, that he was running against an organized crime family, not a political party. You could argue that he should have known, after Florida in 2000 among other warnings, but I think the evil of his opposition was unprecedented and I am willing to forgive him for not being cynical enough to recognize that in time.

All of that considered, I would work for Kerry again if he got the nomination in 2008 (hell, I would work for Joe Lieberman if he got the Democratic nomination), but he probably would not be my choice in the primaries, and if I were in a position to affect his decision, I don’t think I would encourage him to run.

Flame away.

I heard a story on Air America about Kerry sending people out to talk to the newspaper editorial boards. They were stupid enough to send Sandy Berger to talk to a board where the chief editor was a Serbian refugee. When Berger left, the guy said, “well, now we’ll have to fumigate the room.” They were incredibly out of touch. I heard stories about people trying to volunteer and being turned away. Like it was all set up.

Shhhhh don’t let Taylor hear us trash Kerry….. she really likes him…. he calls her cell phone!

I am so glad to find like minded others who feel the way I do about Kerry…. there were some who were making me feel mean spirted for not forgiving him…. not giving him another chance….

Flame away.

*Struts in dressed as Frank N. Furter from “Rocky Horror”, hand on hip and carrying a feather boa*

Wait, this isn’t what you meant, is it?

If(!) politics were a sport, Kerry would be the guy who always strikes out with the bases loaded, or throws a game-ending interception in the 4th quarter. They tend to not be fan favorites.

TRex @ 51

Flame away.

*Struts in dressed as Frank N. Furter from “Rocky Horror”, hand on hip and carrying a feather boa*

Wait, this isn’t what you meant, is it?

707!

katymine @ 35

I need some brainstorming help… I have a local state senator candidate who is running against the guy who wrote and sponsored the “Guns in Bars” bill and gets 100% of his campaign money from lobbists…. Anyway… I am trying to use the Lamont Kiss method… need an idea and visual to use for posters to use against the ReThug…

Any ideas?

Hayworth and Harper drunkenly grinning with their arms around each other’s shoulders, each holding a bottle of whiskey and a smoking pistol. Yeeee-haw!! (And don’t forget to sharpen JD’s hair!)

You know who I wish would come hang out here?

El Gato Negro!

motherlowman @ 54

I have a great idea to use against Hayworth… A clothes line with dirty laundry with each piece with a tag such as Abramoff, Votes 99% with Bush, etc… Put that on a poster and follow Hayworth’s campaign. What do you think?

mata @ 45 –

I agree (but I have to stick my ‘but’ in there ;-) …

Once you win you have to govern and we see what happens when you’ve got a great candidate, a powerful electoral machine, and much bucks successfully electing a vacuous idiot.

TRex @ 51

Flame away.

*Struts in dressed as Frank N. Furter from “Rocky Horror”, hand on hip and carrying a feather boa*

Wait, this isn’t what you meant, is it?

707, TRex!

ATinNM @ 57

mata @ 45 –

I agree (but I have to stick my ‘but’ in there ;-) …

Once you win you have to govern and we see what happens when you’ve got a great candidate, a powerful electoral machine, and much bucks successfully electing a vacuous idiot.

What happens is, unh, what we have now?

OMG! TRex! A great post! No one could have said it better!

I don’t know about you all but I get this ball in my chest right under where my heart is. It’s just pure freaking rage! Everyday I waited for Kerry to battle the swiftboaters and everyday that damn rage kept tightening up…and then Ohio.

I can’t believe he’s speaking up now! Well, the hell with him.

Katymine, no flame from me! as far as I’m concerned you have every right to be furious.

HotFlash @ 59

ATinNM @ 57

mata @ 45 –

I agree (but I have to stick my ‘but’ in there ;-) …

Once you win you have to govern and we see what happens when you’ve got a great candidate, a powerful electoral machine, and much bucks successfully electing a vacuous idiot.

What happens is, unh, what we have now?

And that’s the problem.

We have to figure out how to make intelligence and competence cool – I’m not even sure it’s possible.

Just got an email from my boyfriend… Old Georgie is going to f*ck up next Monday nights Football in New Orleans….. by speaking at the game

Political photo op for the first game in the Dome since Katrina. Evil bastard

katymine @ 62

Just got an email from my boyfriend… Old Georgie is going to f*ck up next Monday nights Football in New Orleans….. by speaking at the game

Political photo op for the first game in the Dome since Katrina. Evil bastard

I hope he’s prepared to not get a very friendly reception.

Kewalo @ 60

I can’t believe he’s speaking up now! Well, the hell with him.

Yeah, he finally realizes what he should have said. Two years later.

TRex @ 63

katymine @ 62

Just got an email from my boyfriend… Old Georgie is going to f*ck up next Monday nights Football in New Orleans….. by speaking at the game

Political photo op for the first game in the Dome since Katrina. Evil bastard

I hope he’s prepared to not get a very friendly reception.

How do you say clueless? Ohhhh I just did..

Mark Steckel @ 53

TRex @ 51

Flame away.

*Struts in dressed as Frank N. Furter from “Rocky Horror”, hand on hip and carrying a feather boa*

Wait, this isn’t what you meant, is it?

707!

I’ll second that 707! I was just being my usual boring and nurturing self, offering the most refreshing of libations to soothe your parched throat and fevered brow. Then you came along with a flamboyant yet gentle query and appealed to my inner Magic Puff, and you have once again raised not only the level of discourse but also the level of jocularity. LOL.

katymine @ 56

motherlowman @ 54

I have a great idea to use against Hayworth… A clothes line with dirty laundry with each piece with a tag such as Abramoff, Votes 99% with Bush, etc… Put that on a poster and follow Hayworth’s campaign. What do you think?

That’s a good one. I can’t stand that smarmy SOB. Even after dropping all the tonnage, he still looks like he’s one cheeseburger away from exploding.

TRex @ 63

katymine @ 62

Just got an email from my boyfriend… Old Georgie is going to f*ck up next Monday nights Football in New Orleans….. by speaking at the game

Political photo op for the first game in the Dome since Katrina. Evil bastard

I hope he’s prepared to not get a very friendly reception.

I wonder whether ticketholders will have to take loyalty oaths to get into the game. The chimp isn’t used to speaking before the actual “public.”

I’m a big Kathleen Madigan fan. She has a bit on Kerry: (Imagine a stuffy New England accent here)

“I’m sorry I speak like a man from the 15th centur-ay and here’s my freaky wife in charge of ketchup”

Eli @ 64

Kewalo @ 60

I can’t believe he’s speaking up now! Well, the hell with him.

Yeah, he finally realizes what he should have said. Two years later.

I think they have him on some kind of time delay. His lips are moving, but it takes 700 days for the sound to actually reach the earth.

Eli @
8

cameronga @ 6

Kerry is like one of those kids that talk big until the moment of the real fight which they just can’t seem to stomach. Too many years spent trying to be the nice guy, trying to play in the middle and be everyones friend.

Remember when he was talking about what a great closer he was?

The irony is that he usually was a great election closer, at least in MA. My stepfather used to live in Boston and he laughed when Kerry brought up the closing thing. Said Kerry would dick around for months on end, nearly have his supporters pulling their hair out then–whammo! He came out slugging. But even the SF was stunned at how badly Kerry ran his Prez campaign. He’s still shell-shocked that Kerry all but laid down and died, and swears a fix was in on that election.

Worse, Kerry’s 04 fiasco makes me regret cursing Gore as a fool in ‘00 for not selecting Kerry as his running mate. I have nightmares sometimes now of how badly Gore would have lost if he’d chosen Kerry, after all.

Dear John,
Why did you not have the balls when you were running against them last time? Why did you let these people walk all over you, smear your reputation, insult every Vet with their Lies and then proceed to destroy America’s reputation worldwide, milk the taxpayers for every cent they could/are, let an entire city drown while it’s administrators were playing guitar and shopping for fucking shoes??

You (and others) let the the Republicans walk all over you in the last 2 elections and NOW you are going to kick their ass across the country??

The damage has been done, you too late.

Katymine;

What about something about “shooting from the hip?” The image of the gun… and a list of outrageous statements he’s made?

Or one of those clownish guns with scarves (really, the dirty laundry) flying out of it?

LJ/Aquaria @ 71

Eli @
8

cameronga @ 6

Kerry is like one of those kids that talk big until the moment of the real fight which they just can’t seem to stomach. Too many years spent trying to be the nice guy, trying to play in the middle and be everyones friend.

Remember when he was talking about what a great closer he was?

The irony is that he usually was a great election closer, at least in MA. My stepfather used to live in Boston and he laughed when Kerry brought up the closing thing. Said Kerry would dick around for months on end, nearly have his supporters pulling their hair out then–whammo! He came out slugging. But even the SF was stunned at how badly Kerry ran his Prez campaign. He’s still shell-shocked that Kerry all but laid down and died, and swears a fix was in on that election.

Worse, Kerry’s 04 fiasco makes me regret cursing Gore as a fool in ‘00 for not selecting Kerry as his running mate. I have nightmares sometimes now of how badly Gore would have lost if he’d chosen Kerry, after all.

I guess Shrum wasn’t on board any of his MA campaigns.

And Kerry would have been a *huge* improvement over Lieberman. Hell, Pee Wee Herman would have been.

Kerry is how you say ‘pussy’ in gaelic..

(Not meant to offend any of my Irish brethren)

Katymine 35 theme song special for running against guns in bar guy “Gimme three steps Mr ” Lynard Skynard or “38 Special ” again from Sknard people should be free to drink after a hard week of work on the weekend WITHOUT HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT THE PSYCHOS WHO CAN ONLY FACE THEIR PROBLEMS WHEN DRINKING GETTING INTO FIGHTS AND THEN PULLING GUNS BECAUSE THEY CAN’T FACE THE REAL PROBLEMS IN THEIR LIVES. These Jerks ruin everybody’s weekend.

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 74

Kerry is how you say ‘pussy’ in gaelic..

(Not meant to offend any of my Irish brethren)

You’re kidding, right?

Oh, and hey, Hopey!

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 74

Kerry is how you say ‘pussy’ in gaelic..

(Not meant to offend any of my Irish brethren)

Funny, I was just about to say, “Shorter John Kerry: ‘I now realize that being a pussy is bad.’”

Hey, TRex – how much did Mike Ledeen pay you to cut into Patrick’s post? Ledeen gets extremely pissed off when people diss his daughter.

LJ/Aquaria @ 71

He’s still shell-shocked that Kerry all but laid down and died, and swears a fix was in on that election.

It goes back to NSA spying… what do they know about whom? Is it them, their wife, kid, brother or parent? Whose life are they willing to distroy to get what they want…. does not matter if it is a Dem or a ReThug….. they know shit on everyone. THAT is why they are doing the big CYA…

TRex @ 70

Eli @ 64

Kewalo @ 60

I can’t believe he’s speaking up now! Well, the hell with him.

Yeah, he finally realizes what he should have said. Two years later.

I think they have him on some kind of time delay. His lips are moving, but it takes 700 days for the sound to actually reach the earth.

707 Hey! that needed a spew alert!

I was baffled and disappointed by the lack of effective counterattack to the swift boat nonsense.

I could have done without the windsurfing.

And the vacation at the summer house in Montana.

And the Deadeye Cheney imitation hunt, as if any gun owner is going to vote for him anyway.

I really wish he hadn’t said he voted for the $93 million before he voted against it.

And that he would have been a little more clear about what to do in Iraq, apologized for voting for the war and offered a real alternative to the status quo.

I thought he kicked the chimp’s ass in the debates.

So it’s time for a little confessional. At our house we vote together. 2004 was no different. Mom, dad, and our son at the diner table. Damn it, I couldn’t just out and out vote when it came to the prez so I flipped a coin and it came up Kerry. I’m still a little bit of a sorry ass for that but isn’t that the way the system works. Disenfranchise the voter with poor choices. The other side of the coin would have rendered a vote for “B” a libertarian. Should have done a write-in as the pressure was on.

Kerry: disastrous as a candidate, unknowable as a president, useful as a senator, and pretty sad as resurgent. Bitching bitching bitching about it: dull. Self-congratulatory. Pointless.

Flame on.

Chimpy is going to be at the NOLA game & will be interviewed… can you imagine the gall of Bush being at the Dome where so many died due his and his administrations negligence?

And who could take another moment of his loving relationship with his wife – gag!

If I’m not mistaken, John Kerry was one of only three or four senators who came out in support for Feingold’s censure resolution.

And didn’t I hear he was campaigning for Lamont?

We fought like hell for you John Kerry.

You did not fight back for us.

How do you ask a person to be the last one to fight for democracy?

Stay in the Senate, sir, and fight for us. Don’t make me weep again as I did when you conceded.

Tin Foil Hat Time – I remember suggesting to friends in 2002 that Kerry would get the nomination and blow the election to his Skull and Bones frat brother G.W Chimp. (with aploogies to the lovely chimpanzees)

neurophius @ 81

I was baffled and disappointed by the lack of effective counterattack to the swift boat nonsense.

I could have done without the windsurfing.

And the Deadeye Cheney imitation hunt, as if any gun owner is going to vote for him anyway.

I thought he kicked the chimp’s ass in the debates.

Yeah on the swiftboating fiasco. I LOVE to windsurf, and thought he looked a lot better than Bush did falling off his magneto-uni or WTF it was. And I’m a gunowner who knows dozens of gunowners who voted for Kerry. You’re right, though, that he looked silly on the hunting footage. And he won the debates.

cameronga @ 88

Tin Foil Hat Time – I remember suggesting to friends in 2002 that Kerry would get the nomination and blow the election to his Skull and Bones frat brother G.W Chimp. (with aploogies to the lovely chimpanzees)

So why didn’t Chimp blow the election to his frat brother Kerry? How do they decide those things?

Trex, with all due respect., Democrats have been rolling over and exposing their anii for penetration for the past six years. Kerry certainly isn’t the only Dem guilty of that particular mistake.

It’s why I get so cranky on this very blog, when people talk about eschewing taking the low road. It’s a goddam street fight and the only rule in a street fight is WIN. Victory uber alles!

We can raise the level of discourse after we win. Until then, dirty, low down and mean must be the order of the day. I hope y’alll eventually understand that. We should swiftboat the shit out of Joe “I’m a fucking chickenhawk” Lieberman. I ain’t kidding.

neurophius @ 90

cameronga @ 88

Tin Foil Hat Time – I remember suggesting to friends in 2002 that Kerry would get the nomination and blow the election to his Skull and Bones frat brother G.W Chimp. (with aploogies to the lovely chimpanzees)

So why didn’t Chimp blow the election to his frat brother Kerry? How do they decide those things?

Tin Foil blocking rational thought!!! hey, i don’t really believe that but when i saw him conceding Ohio i had to pause for more than a moment.

Kerry won the debates only if one was listening with their ears instead of their fears, ET. ;(

TRex, lord of late nite. I’m always a bit tripped out on Saturdays when I tune in and find Pach. But then I adjust.

So why didn’t Chimp blow the election to his frat brother Kerry?

Kerry’s dad didn’t help kill Jack Kennedy.

Guitar Playing Bastard @ 91

Trex, with all due respect., Democrats have been rolling over and exposing their anii for penetration for the past six years..Kerry certainly isn’t hte only Dem guilty of that particular mistake.

It’s why I get so cranky on this very blog, when people talk about eschewing taking the low road. It’s a goddam street fight and the only rule in a street fight is WIN. Victory uber alles!

We can raise the level of discourse after we win. Until then, dirty, low down and mean must be the order of the day. I hope y’alll eventually understand that. We should swiftboat the shit out of Joe “I’m a fucking chickenhawk” Lieberman. I ain’t kidding.

It’s not the low road, all we have to do is tell the truth about the evil lying crooked scumbags.

chris @ 29

maybe it’s just me…

Pretty much, yeah.

neurophius @ 86

If I’m not mistaken, John Kerry was one of only three or four senators who came out in support for Feingold’s censure resolution.

And didn’t I hear he was campaigning for Lamont?

Yes he did. Which means he’s done good things and is deserving of respect. But not without limitations.

Eli @ 64

Kewalo @ 60

I can’t believe he’s speaking up now! Well, the hell with him.

Yeah, he finally realizes what he should have said. Two years later.

Kind of like how he figured out there was a problem with the Vietnam war 3 years after everybody else knew it was a disaster.

cameronga @ 96

It’s not the low road, all we have to do is tell the truth about the evil lying crooked scumbags.

That doesn’t sound very civil.

TRex is Godzilla! You are Tokyo!

More…much more….

Eli @
100

cameronga @ 96

It’s not the low road, all we have to do is tell the truth about the evil lying crooked scumbags.

That doesn’t sound very civil.

Fuck civil. Civil is for losers, as the repukes have demonstrated in every election for the past six years. You want civil, plan on losing. Again.

Jane Hamsher @ 98

neurophius @ 86

If I’m not mistaken, John Kerry was one of only three or four senators who came out in support for Feingold’s censure resolution.

And didn’t I hear he was campaigning for Lamont?

Yes he did. Which means he’s done good things and is deserving of respect. But not without limitations.

He’s decent as a senator. But I really don’t want to see him run again – we can’t afford another loss.

Don’t forget Senator Kerry got the largest number of votes a Democrat presidential nominee has ever received. Due, in large part, to a huge amount of work by a large number of people volunteering their time to GOTV.

If Gore had had the same ground game he would have won.

Eli @ 61: “We have to figure out how to make intelligence and competence cool – I’m not even sure it’s possible.”

Yup in-dee-dee to both halves of your sentence.

Eli @ 100

cameronga @ 96

It’s not the low road, all we have to do is tell the truth about the evil lying crooked scumbags.

That doesn’t sound very civil.

I didn’t claim to be civil. This is not a civil war (yet?), it’s way more important than that. If the bush crowd keep control for much longer, I doubt that we will have anything left of our democracy. We’ve all got to stop being so damn nice while Karl Rove and his brownshirts kick us around.

angie @ 93

Kerry won the debates only if one was listening with their ears instead of their fears, ET. ;(

Teddy Ruxpin could win a debate against Bush. And he might even have gone for the throat.

I will always respect John Kerry for his service in Vietnam and for his voice against the policy and the war when he came home.

I respect that; he earned it and he took a stand that was both brave and honest.

Conceding defeat to dubya amidst voter fraud and corrupted machines….. not so much.

Eli @
5

I. Do. Not. Want. To. See. Kerry. Run. For. President. Ever. Again.

Do I make myself clear? Gore, yes, oh God yes. But Kerry ran the ultimate clueless loser campaign. He hired Rand Beers, a disaffected Bush national security guy, and then proceeded to not say a damn word about how pathetic Bush’s national security performance really was, except for a brief mention in one of the debates.

Lame.

Gore/Clark bumper stickers seen at Monterey Jazz Festival this weekend. Kinda warmed my broken heart.

The ‘08 democratic candidate will be Hillary Clinton. Kerry may run a quixotic campaign against her, but there is no chance of him beating Hillary’s warchest and her democratic connections. As far as progressive interests are concerned, the movement is not powerful enough yet to beat Hillary.

Jane Hamsher @ 98

neurophius @ 86

If I’m not mistaken, John Kerry was one of only three or four senators who came out in support for Feingold’s censure resolution.

And didn’t I hear he was campaigning for Lamont?

Yes he did. Which means he’s done good things and is deserving of respect. But not without limitations.

I agree Jane, Kerry has been speaking out, he did try the Alito fillibuster and finally he has found his voice but…. I think he could be more effective as a strong voice in the Senate

If Gore had had the same ground game he would have won.

Uh, Gore did win.

dachost,e @ 24

with kerry, i don’t think i can ever get past that one point in the ‘04 campaign when a reporter asked him, “knowing what you know now, would you still have voted to give bush authorization to use force?”, and he said yes… i literally threw the remote at the tv… useless

Yeah, then he launched into a distinction between voting to go to war, and what he THOUGHT he was voting for (”giving the President the authority to go to war” so that Saddam would let weapons inspectors in). What was so hard about saying, “No, I relied on the President’s representations to us, and they were wrong.”

newspaperbrat @ 108

Gore/Clark bumper stickers seen at Monterey Jazz Festival this weekend. Kinda warmed my broken heart.

Works for me.

It’s the way the leverage works due to the personalities of the teo parties. How to Rule the World:
Buy a few key Republicans. The Republicans are a disciplined bunch. Your boughten ones will keep the rest in line, so you let them provide your Preznit (they will also consider that a perq).

You will need to buy a few key Dems, too, for insurance and believable theater, but Dems are fractious, so no point in letting one of them ever be Pres. Rinse. Repeat. /tinfoil

now, now, the man said he’d be up for a fight in 2 years. What more do you want? It’s not as if there are any law breaking, vote stealing, swift-boating, voter purging,incompetent, Constitution shredding,
fear mongering,slime coated wedge driving, e-vote hacking,minority hating, racist,totalitarian, fascist,torture loving, negative campaigning,corrupt, Rethuglicant operatives around in the here and now for him to unleash his formidable wrath on. No he’s gonna lure ‘em out with a presidential campaign, then unload on ‘em.
Sure he will.
To paraphrase the immortal Bullwinkle “Next time, FOR SURE”

Jane Hamsher @ 98

neurophius @ 86

If I’m not mistaken, John Kerry was one of only three or four senators who came out in support for Feingold’s censure resolution.

And didn’t I hear he was campaigning for Lamont?

Yes he did. Which means he’s done good things and is deserving of respect. But not without limitations.

I’ll certainly agree with you there, Jane.

Maybe it would be best if he would just concentrate on being an outstanding Democratic senator, and let the presidential thing go.

Heh. “carbonite.”

That aside, I had occasion to visit DC for the first time recently, and since I spent more than $150 in duty-free, I got to choose between two free bags. One was a standard cheap nylon sports bag, but the other…

… the other was a rifle bag. With “Ballantyne’s Whiskey” embroidered on it in gold.

If I ship it back to you ‘mericans, will someone FedEx it to Cheney?

Great post!

And the very opposite of John Kerry is a diarist at Kos and a phone-banker for the ACLU, detailed in a lovingly crafted post titled She had me at ‘U’.

Worth reading for the good writing.

Worth thinking about for the good campaigning.

Worth going through the Comments for the inspiration.

Titanyum @ 109

The ‘08 democratic candidate will be Hillary Clinton. Kerry may run a quixotic campaign against her, but there is no chance of him beating Hillary’s warchest and her democratic connections. As far as progressive interests are concerned, the movement is not powerful enough yet to beat Hillary.

Wow… flame Katymine time again…

Since 2005, I have been to Texas twice, NM, AZ, NV and California…. over and over again… I heard from True Blue Democrats would NOT vote for Hillary, they do not want a candidate from New England at all.

I also think you are falling down the ReThug/Rove talking points. The threat of Hillary is red meat for the ReThugs

Kerry: Been there, done that. Time to move on down the road without looking back to linger over what might have been.

It is going to take his doing a whole hell of a lot more good things and speaking up on a consistant basis before I start thinking Kerry’s got brass ones and he’s not afraid to use them.

Until then, I think Kerry and I think wuss.

Titanyum @ 109

The ‘08 democratic candidate will be Hillary Clinton. Kerry may run a quixotic campaign against her, but there is no chance of him beating Hillary’s warchest and her democratic connections. As far as progressive interests are concerned, the movement is not powerful enough yet to beat Hillary.

Agreed, but we’re blogging as fast as we can! Looks way different now than two years ago.

EvilDrPuma @ 106

angie @ 93

Kerry won the debates only if one was listening with their ears instead of their fears, ET. ;(

Teddy Ruxpin could win a debate against Bush. And he might even have gone for the throat.

LOL! Kerry is intelligent, whereas Bush is just…….

Carter, Gore, Feingold, Clark, Dean, not Hillary. works for me. But somehow, all of them have to become Fearless and answer a whole lot of questions. That’s my dream anyway and I am taking it with me to bed now. g’nite friends!

PS– nobody tell me that Carter is too old. We need a smart peacemaker yesterday and I want a bit of sweet dreams of a better world.

I hate to get all philosophical on you all but….I’m a Canadian and I and millions of other people around the world have admired your political system for as long as I can remember and now it is being mangled and ripped to shreds by a bunch of horrid criminal. That’s not a figure of speech . Your President and much of his coterie are international war criminals. I love it when i see peole like all the writers at FDL who are mad as hell and willing to fight to save your democracy. Thre is nothing more scary than having the most powerful country in the history of the world ruled by a mad dictator!!! Fight on, and remember you ARE fighting for your lives, and ours. Go Trex!!! Go Jane!!!

Eli @ 103

Jane Hamsher @ 98

neurophius @ 86

If I’m not mistaken, John Kerry was one of only three or four senators who came out in support for Feingold’s censure resolution.

And didn’t I hear he was campaigning for Lamont?

Yes he did. Which means he’s done good things and is deserving of respect. But not without limitations.

He’s decent as a senator. But I really don’t want to see him run again – we can’t afford another loss.

I agree…2004 was my first presidential election where I got to vote. I originally supported Dean, but when Kerry won the primary I was fully behind him. I get very emotional about politics and don’t know what I’ll do if we lose in ‘08.

litigatormom @ 112

What was so hard about saying, “No, I relied on the President’s representations to us, and they were wrong.”

Better yet: “I relied on the president’s representations to us, and they were lies.”

nsr @ 111

If Gore had had the same ground game he would have won.

Uh, Gore did win.

he would have won beyond the margin of controversy…

katymine @ 117

Titanyum @ 109

The ‘08 democratic candidate will be Hillary Clinton. Kerry may run a quixotic campaign against her, but there is no chance of him beating Hillary’s warchest and her democratic connections. As far as progressive interests are concerned, the movement is not powerful enough yet to beat Hillary.

Wow… flame Katymine time again…

Since 2005, I have been to Texas twice, NM, AZ, NV and California…. over and over again… I heard from True Blue Democrats would NOT vote for Hillary, they do not want a candidate from New England at all.

I also think you are falling down the ReThug/Rove talking points. The threat of Hillary is red meat for the ReThugs

I want Gore, dammit!!!

There really aren’t any other potential Democratic candidates who really excite me, except maybe Feingold.

neurophius @
48

katymine @ 19

I have been flamed pretty badly when I said that I would not spit on Kerry if his ass was on fire…after his loss in 2004…. Yes I have bad feelings…. really BAD feelings….

I come from a family of three generations of Vets… his behavior was dishonorable to all Vets… In 2004, like tons of others… I volunteered to canvas, phone bank, I was the medical person at the AZ post debate rally, I managed a phone bank center for a month, took my vacation to work the campaign, I worked fulltime days and worked the campaign evenings and nights. I didnt see my kids for days(they are college age) and pretty much ran myself into the ground. NOT BRAGGING just stating why I am still pissed…. Kerry could come to my house and appologise personally and I still would be pissed.

Thousands of us worked our asses off, devoted our time, money, blood, sweat and tears to get Kerry elected and he betrayed us…. he would NOT stand up for us when we needed him. NEVER Again….. NEVER…

Ok… start flaming me….. I do not care

Actually, I am the one who will probably get flamed. I was disappointed in Kerry’s performance in 2004 in many ways, but I would not judge him as harshly as some here have.

The fact is, he almost won, and you don’t do that in a sharply divided country, running against an incumbent president with a smart bastard like Rove and megabucks behind him, without doing a lot of things right.

I don’t think Kerry fully understood, until too late, that he was running against an organized crime family, not a political party. You could argue that he should have known, after Florida in 2000 among other warnings, but I think the evil of his opposition was unprecedented and I am willing to forgive him for not being cynical enough to recognize that in time.

All of that considered, I would work for Kerry again if he got the nomination in 2008 (hell, I would work for Joe Lieberman if he got the Democratic nomination), but he probably would not be my choice in the primaries, and if I were in a position to affect his decision, I don’t think I would encourage him to run.

Flame away.

I think you’re right. things are mor complicated than some would have us believe.

What’s up with Gore? He’s here in Oz this week promoting his movie (which I may finally get to see) but if he’s serious about ‘08 it’s time to stop being coy and start visiting Iowa not Oz. If’s he’s really not running, he should say so.

Another thing, in perhaps the only smart thing David Brooks ever said one night on News Hour in 04, was that people were voting for Kerry not because they liked him but because they thought he was “electable”, ie that others would like him. I’m worried that we have the same deal with Hillary. This time let’s find some one WE really can support and give that person our support starting now, whther we think others will like him or her.

That said, there is no one I really like. Oh well.

petedownunder @ 128

What’s up with Gore? He’s here in Oz this week promoting his movie (which I may finally get to see) but if he’s serious about ‘08 it’s time to stop being coy and start visiting Iowa not Oz. If’s he’s really not running, he should say so.

Another thing, in perhaps the only smart thing David Brooks ever said one night on News Hour in 04, was that people were voting for Kerry not because they liked him but because they thought he was “electable”, ie that others would like him. I’m worried that we have the same deal with Hillary. This time let’s find some one WE really can support and give that person our support starting now, whther we think others will like him or her.

That said, there is no one I really like. Oh well.

Feingold?

Jesus H. Christ.
Talk about whining.
Yeah, yeah, alot of people worked hard to get Kerry elected. Good for you.
Kerry worked at it 24-7. It was his name on the ticket, it was him kicking Bush’s ass in the debates. It was also he that had all of the slurs hurled at him, his wife, his family.
It was also he who came closer to defeating a wartime president than any other candidate in history.
So excuse me if I don’t feel sorry for you.
He wasn’t my first choice in the primaries. I didn’t think that a Massachusetts Senator, with all of the votes they have to make would be able to overcome the Rovian lies out there and that a governor is a more natural choice, as they have to make fewer compromises and, the ones they do make aren’t national in nature.
That said, I was proud of his imperfect effort. He doesn’t come across as the warmest of people, but you knew he cared. He isn’t the backslapping, glad-handing pol like Clinton or have the frat-boy thing down like Bush. He is honest and wasn’t the street-fighter that the Bush crime family was.
By the way, where the fuck were all of the stars of ‘08 back in ‘04? The Bidens, Vilsacks, H. Clinton, et al?
And speaking of Clinton, our star…his share of the popular vote in his first term was only 43% and in ‘96 it only got to 49…against Bob Dole!
Where has he been these last 2 years? Geez, Trex, I guess you’ve been only reading blogs, because he’s been in the Senate, trying to do what he can to stem the tide (kinda hard to do as a member of the minority party). If you really want to know what he’s been doing, read a fucking newspaper.
He’s raised and spent millions for other candidates across the country.
And to fucking tar him with the Lieberman brush, what kind of Rovish shit is that?
And, really, do you think there was any way he could have rolled back the vote total in Ohio? With this Supreme Court? What should he have done…raised an army and marched on Washington? Be real…
And for those of you who are wishing for Gore…these are the same things they were saying about him after the 2000 election. Or is your memory that short? (I know tyrannosaurus rex had a small brain, but didn’t think that was the reason for your name).
You have a right not to want who you don’t want, but, save your vitrol for those who deserve it, the criminals in this administration, the turncoat in Connecticut, the DINO’s out there. Tout your candidate’s qualifications. But don’t turn on a loyal Democrat. Get your head out of your ass, get to work, and stop whining…

Ok Kerry sucks people but who would be an ok canidate for president and or what do we want in a canidate.
1) I want troops home now
2)National Healthcare for all citizens
3)Pay off the debt, save social security
4) Plug in hybrid cars Yeah cars that get 100 miles to the gallon would bankrupt the terrorists. Ossama would have to get a JOB
5) improve living standards for EVERYBODY not just the middle class (or bush’s favorite the top 10%)

petedownunder @ 128

What’s up with Gore? He’s here in Oz this week promoting his movie (which I may finally get to see) but if he’s serious about ‘08 it’s time to stop being coy and start visiting Iowa not Oz. If’s he’s really not running, he should say so.

I’m pretty sure he’s said it over and over again. That doesn’t stop people like us from hoping, though.

Kerry is a good loser, which is quite different from being a good candidate.

707?

(Yeah, I’m a regular, but I was offline when 707 became current and I’ll be damned if I’ll admit my cluelessness in a message thread that’s all about cluelessness.)

(sheepish grin)

katymine @ 84

Chimpy is going to be at the NOLA game & will be interviewed… can you imagine the gall of Bush being at the Dome where so many died due his and his administrations negligence?

I wonder if he’ll try to pull the same stunt he did at the Reds game…dragging vets along with him so he won’t be booed off the field.

anon @ 134

707?

(Yeah, I’m a regular, but I was offline when 707 became current and I’ll be damned if I’ll admit my cluelessness in a message thread that’s all about cluelessness.)

(sheepish grin)

Like, if you ar LOLing so hard you fall off your chair backwards it becomes (wait for it) … 707!

anon @ 134

707?

LOL

TRex @ 76

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 74

Kerry is how you say ‘pussy’ in gaelic..

(Not meant to offend any of my Irish brethren) You’re kidding right?

Rexie…

sorry was off reading and answering email. Yes I’m kidding. And a pussy is only bad if you don’t actually have one of your own. My people (woman) are strong. Did you know that 90% of fetuses that spontaneously miscarry are males? My people are strong and we are the future.

neurophius at 129: Feingold is a possible, but I’m a bit out of touch and a long way from Wisconsin, is he the real deal? I suspect Senators make poor Presidents, but there can be exceptions.

bdu at 132: He says that, then the press is full of hints and rumors that Gore has “not ruled it out”. It would be easy enough to say “If nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve” and that would put an end to it.

Hear hear! and again and again!

Kerry bears a huge responsibility for the mess this country is in. Every time he opens his mouth I want to knock out his teeth and say “that’s how you fight back when the other side plays dirty”.

Well said Trex.

petedownunder @ 139

neurophius at 129: Feingold is a possible, but I’m a bit out of touch and a long way from Wisconsin, is he the real deal? I suspect Senators make poor Presidents, but there can be exceptions.

I think Feingold might be one of the very few senators who hasn’t made a lot of embarrassing compromises over the course of his career.

My first election was 76 (and our guy won, heh heh). After that it was JC in 80, Fritz in 84, Duke in 88, then Mr Lovable. But after we didn’t get health care, and he slobbered all over himself eulogizing Nixon, I started to have my doubts.

Well, the Kerrytharsis has been fun, but I really should be going now…

pete: I will echo Eli here,

I want Gore, dammit!!!

on to neurophius:

Feingold?

and then there is the possibility of the unknown perfect candidate we
have not heard of yet…

Keith Olbermann?
Ms ?
Mr ?

I hope that it is up to the people to put that candidate forward.

petedownunder @ 128

What’s up with Gore? He’s here in Oz this week promoting his movie (which I may finally get to see) but if he’s serious about ‘08 it’s time to stop being coy and start visiting Iowa not Oz. If’s he’s really not running, he should say so.

Another thing, in perhaps the only smart thing David Brooks ever said one night on News Hour in 04, was that people were voting for Kerry not because they liked him but because they thought he was “electable”, ie that others would like him. I’m worried that we have the same deal with Hillary. This time let’s find some one WE really can support and give that person our support starting now, whther we think others will like him or her.

That said, there is no one I really like. Oh well.

What is there not to like about Al Gore – seriously?

Kerry’s not a bad man, but I don’t trust him to be a good leader because of the way he ran his campaign. He didn’t fight for us.

it seems like politicians ask for civility when they don’t have an issue to stand on. Like Joe, he keeps harping on the incivility of the Lamont campaign, but with 18 years in the senate you’d think he have more to say. (And thicker skin)

petedownunder @ 139

neurophius at 129: Feingold is a possible, but I’m a bit out of touch and a long way from Wisconsin, is he the real deal? I suspect Senators make poor Presidents, but there can be exceptions.

bdu at 132: He says that, then the press is full of hints and rumors that Gore has “not ruled it out”. It would be easy enough to say “If nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve” and that would put an end to it.

Oh, I think Feingold is real. If I’m not mistaken, he was the only senator to vote against the original “PATRIOT” act? He introduced a motion to censure the President of the United States. I think he has many good qualities.

My problem with that is, I supported McGovern in 1972. Fred Harris, then Udall, in 1976. Kennedy in 1980. Really worked hard for Mondale in 1984. Supported Jesse Jackson in 1988. Pretty much sat out the Clinton years. Gore in 2000. Dean, then Kerry in 2004. Get the picture?

Also I want somebody who is going to fight not just when they are attacked like Kerry was I want someone who is going to call George allen a macaca, Jon Macain a wimp for shaking bush’s hand after bush lied about him having a black kid, I want someone who will say anybody but Bill First as my Dr if I ever go into a coma I want a Dem who will hit FIRST AND KEEP HITTING

Eli @ 113

newspaperbrat @ 108

Gore/Clark bumper stickers seen at Monterey Jazz Festival this weekend. Kinda warmed my broken heart.

Works for me.

Me too.
I went to a Clark fundraiser a few months ago. It was SO refreshing to listen to a politician who actually could listen to your question, and respond in thoughtful, complete sentences. And who teared up describing a recent visit with vets recovering at a military hospital. Teared up and meant it.

And I agree, GSD, we have to fight where they fight.

mjh at 130

He wasn’t my first choice either. And yes they bashed the shit out of him but if you can’t take it you have no business running for President. Just because bullies give you a bad time and take your lunch money, you don’t go home crying to mama. You stand up like a man, and tell them you won’t take their shit. I think Kerry is a good man, but he’s not presidential material. He is a good Senator I I appreciate his service. And I’m not whining.

cameronga @
105

Eli @ 100

cameronga @ 96

It’s not the low road, all we have to do is tell the truth about the evil lying crooked scumbags.

That doesn’t sound very civil.

I didn’t claim to be civil. This is not a civil war (yet?), it’s way more important than that. If the bush crowd keep control for much longer, I doubt that we will have anything left of our democracy. We’ve all got to stop being so damn nice while Karl Rove and his brownshirts kick us around.

right. and we have to remember who the target really is. flaming our on side isn’t really the way to go. on the democratic side of the street we need to be who we’re FOR and let that take care of who we’re not for. John Kerry fucked up. get over it!

I’m for Russ Feingold. Who the hell are you for???????

newspaperbrat @ 145

petedownunder @ 128

What is there not to like about Al Gore – seriously?

It does have to be Angry Gore, though. If he runs the same campaign he did in 2000, he’ll lose again. But if he comes across as passionate and committed, he’ll wipe the floor with, um… whoever.

(Unless it’s McCain – I think the media will do everything they can to prop up McCain’s “straight-talking maverick that even Democrats like” image)

boy, I sure hope they put shrubya’s mug up on the jumbotron in N.O. – THEN he’ll get a real sense of how people feel…

I might watch the game just to see what happens! (not a big football fan)

katymine @ 117

The threat of Hillary is red meat for the ReThugs

Yes there will be a fierce fight in ‘08 and Hillary will be red meat to the Republicans. So what? Elections thrive on red meat.

Old Left @ 119

Everyday I waited for Kerry to battle the swiftboaters and everyday that damn rage kept tightening up..

I’m not trying to be contentious, but has it never occured to you that the reason might be because their story was effectively true? Think of it: if you were being smeared, wouldn’t you fight like an animal to reveal the truth? Nothing could stop you, could it? I’m serious. But, if it the allegations were true, digging around would only serve to reveal more dirt.

Kerry fucking around like he did is like OJ roaming from golf course to golf course trying to find Nichole’s murderer. Same thing.

No, I never thought it was true. But obviously a lot of people did. I also didn’t believe it when the right said that Gore said he invented the internet and when the right said Wilson outed Plame. They are freaking liars and I don’t believe a damn thing they say!

The thing I like about Feingold, and it’s the same thing I liked about Tom Harkin in 92– the man doesn’t take any crap. If Harkin had been Prez in 94, Newt wouldn’t have been able to stick his head out in the open without the wrath of so-called “treasoncrats” nailing his sorry ass. The lovefest Clinton had, just before Newt tried to shut down the govt, still pisses me off.

OldCoastie @ 153

boy, I sure hope they put shrubya’s mug up on the jumbotron in N.O. – THEN he’ll get a real sense of how people feel…

I might watch the game just to see what happens! (not a big football fan)

Boy would I love that…I hope they do it… Hi Coastie! Always nice to see your face ;)

OldCoastie @ 153

boy, I sure hope they put shrubya’s mug up on the jumbotron in N.O. – THEN he’ll get a real sense of how people feel…

I might watch the game just to see what happens! (not a big football fan)

the crowd has got to be stacked. First game back a lot of local pols and big wigs will eat up the ticket. No way they will risk him getting booed and having beer thrown at him.
How many Saints’ ticket holders are the poor people that lost their homes vs. the suburbanites who did not.

Titanyum @
109

The ‘08 democratic candidate will be Hillary Clinton. Kerry may run a quixotic campaign against her, but there is no chance of him beating Hillary’s warchest and her democratic connections. As far as progressive interests are concerned, the movement is not powerful enough yet to beat Hillary.

So, let me get this straight, you are conceeding the nomination to the HIl? then what the *uck are we doing here?

newspaperbrat @ 145. Gore is a super guy, but friends, he was a dreadful candidate. He should have wiped the floor with Chimpy, but made it close enough to steal with his wooden delivery and letting himself be run by those nitwit consultants. I hate to say this, but we need a candidate who is just a bit mean, who won’t take any crap from anybody and say what he thinks, at least occasionally. I think we are really ready for leadership, look at the traction McCain had in 2000 until he got Roved in SC and then kissed Chimpy’s butt.

I just don’t know if we have anyone in the wings who can do it, perhaps Sen Feingold, I don’t know. If Murtha was only a little younger and a tad more liberal in other areas.

hey Hopie…! I just LOVE the jumbotron experience for politicians… the Gropenator got badly booed WAY down here in oh-so-conservative Orange County… it was so funny! (but I don’t think it ever actually made the news)

we will probably need a direct report from someone in New Orleans…

I need a beer. Anyone else?

OldCoastie @ 161

hey Hopie…! I just LOVE the jumbotron experience for politicians… the Gropenator got badly booed WAY down here in oh-so-conservative Orange County… it was so funny! (but I don’t think it ever actually made the news)

we will probably need a direct report from someone in New Orleans…

They booed Cheney so bad at Yankee Stadium they had to cut away quickly, it was getting to chippy. (Very proud day for me)

I have a couple of contacts in NOLA. I’ll check it out. And as far as the ticketholders all being bush-lovers, you can forget about that Uptown Chick. The bush-hate runs pretty deep on the gulf coast.

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 162

I need a beer. Anyone else?

I’m one of those horrible effete liberals, I don’t do beer. A glass of wine would be nice, though. Hell, after all the news this week, I’ll have some tequila!

Well, I said a few things here tonight that I know a lot of you don’t agree with, and I appreciate the fact that you can do that at FDL and all in all, nobody gave me a hard time, nobody called me a troll, no personal attacks.

And the fact is I agree with a lot of what many of you have been saying. TRex, I love your writing, and you do a great putdown.

So I will thank John Kerry for the effort he made to defeat the forces of darkness, and hope that in 2008 we can come up with someone who is fully prepared to go the distance when the hordes of orcs and goblins begin pouring up out of the ground.

And btw, it was a DOCTOR in NOLA that said, “Mr Cheney, go fuck yourself!” and he said it twice.

mjh @ 130

Jesus H. Christ.
Talk about whining.
Yeah, yeah, alot of people worked hard to get Kerry elected. Good for you.
Kerry worked at it 24-7. It was his name on the ticket, it was him kicking Bush’s ass in the debates. It was also he that had all of the slurs hurled at him, his wife, his family.
It was also he who came closer to defeating a wartime president than any other candidate in history.
So excuse me if I don’t feel sorry for you.
He wasn’t my first choice in the primaries. I didn’t think that a Massachusetts Senator, with all of the votes they have to make would be able to overcome the Rovian lies out there and that a governor is a more natural choice, as they have to make fewer compromises and, the ones they do make aren’t national in nature.
That said, I was proud of his imperfect effort. He doesn’t come across as the warmest of people, but you knew he cared. He isn’t the backslapping, glad-handing pol like Clinton or have the frat-boy thing down like Bush. He is honest and wasn’t the street-fighter that the Bush crime family was.
By the way, where the fuck were all of the stars of ‘08 back in ‘04? The Bidens, Vilsacks, H. Clinton, et al?
And speaking of Clinton, our star…his share of the popular vote in his first term was only 43% and in ‘96 it only got to 49…against Bob Dole!
Where has he been these last 2 years? Geez, Trex, I guess you’ve been only reading blogs, because he’s been in the Senate, trying to do what he can to stem the tide (kinda hard to do as a member of the minority party). If you really want to know what he’s been doing, read a fucking newspaper.
He’s raised and spent millions for other candidates across the country.
And to fucking tar him with the Lieberman brush, what kind of Rovish shit is that?
And, really, do you think there was any way he could have rolled back the vote total in Ohio? With this Supreme Court? What should he have done…raised an army and marched on Washington? Be real…
And for those of you who are wishing for Gore…these are the same things they were saying about him after the 2000 election. Or is your memory that short? (I know tyrannosaurus rex had a small brain, but didn’t think that was the reason for your name).
You have a right not to want who you don’t want, but, save your vitrol for those who deserve it, the criminals in this administration, the turncoat in Connecticut, the DINO’s out there. Tout your candidate’s qualifications. But don’t turn on a loyal Democrat. Get your head out of your ass, get to work, and stop whining…

AY -MEN!! (yes, I am SHOUTINGGGG!)

and while I am at it: GO FEINGOLD!!!!!!

oh Uptown, I doubt, even if the crowd is very la-dee-dah at the Saints game, shrubya will not escape the booing…

sports crowds seem… uh… rather unihibited about expressing their negative emotions thru booing…

now, I’m a baseball fan and our stadium is pretty reserved compared to say… N.Y.!, but booing? oh man! we are good at that!! I can only imagine what a football crowd would be like…

Is Feingold running?

bdu @ 165

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 162

I need a beer. Anyone else?

I’m one of those horrible effete liberals, I don’t do beer. A glass of wine would be nice, though. Hell, after all the news this week, I’ll have some tequila!

::pouring you a nice Italian Pinot Grigio:::

and there’s also the Petron tequila if you want…

mOropeza @ 148

Also I want somebody who is going to fight not just when they are attacked like Kerry was I want someone who is going to call George allen a macaca, Jon Macain a wimp for shaking bush’s hand after bush lied about him having a black kid, I want someone who will say anybody but Bill First as my Dr if I ever go into a coma I want a Dem who will hit FIRST AND KEEP HITTING

Amen….THAT is the point….

sniff… sniff… I smell a flame thrower in our midst’s…

My issues with Kerry:
1. Did NOT stand up to the Swifties
2. Did not make a principled stand on Iraq
3. Folded like a cheep suit before ALL the votes were counted.

We deserved a candidate to stand up and fight to be Presidnet and then standup and fight for our rights to have our votes counted. To me, it is a little too late to kiss and make up.

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 162

I need a beer. Anyone else?

Thanks anyway, I’m into the vodka, bringing up that rage makes me thirsty.

UptownNYChick @ 163

OldCoastie @ 161

hey Hopie…! I just LOVE the jumbotron experience for politicians… the Gropenator got badly booed WAY down here in oh-so-conservative Orange County… it was so funny! (but I don’t think it ever actually made the news)

Holy Batshit – I missed that and would love a linky. The Gropenator was in Pebble Beach as guest of Murdock and imported his Humvee golf cart to the sacred links in Del Monte Forest fer christ’s sake.

we will probably need a direct report from someone in New Orleans…

They booed Cheney so bad at Yankee Stadium they had to cut away quickly, it was getting to chippy. (Very proud day for me)

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 138

TRex @ 76

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 74

Kerry is how you say ‘pussy’ in gaelic..

(Not meant to offend any of my Irish brethren) You’re kidding right?

Rexie…

sorry was off reading and answering email. Yes I’m kidding. And a pussy is only bad if you don’t actually have one of your own. My people (woman) are strong. Did you know that 90% of fetuses that spontaneously miscarry are males? My people are strong and we are the future.

Right On!!!

fahrender @ 159

So, let me get this straight, you are conceeding the nomination to the HIl? then what the *uck are we doing here?

Women could have said for the last 230 years they are conceding the election to a man, but they nevertheless got involved politically.

We make the progressive movement grow, one congressman and one senator at a time. Eventually, we WILL be strong enough to run with a presidential candidate.

Just a Coke for me. And no Pepsi.

OldCoastie @ 169

oh Uptown, I doubt, even if the crowd is very la-dee-dah at the Saints game, shrubya will not escape the booing…

sports crowds seem… uh… rather unihibited about expressing their negative emotions thru booing…

now, I’m a baseball fan and our stadium is pretty reserved compared to say… N.Y.!, but booing? oh man! we are good at that!! I can only imagine what a football crowd would be like…

I hope so. I am just at a loss to figure out WHY they would let him go there unless they already have a plan. Everythng with them is so scripted and this seems way too freewheeling for them.

UptownNYChick @ 158

OldCoastie @ 153

boy, I sure hope they put shrubya’s mug up on the jumbotron in N.O. – THEN he’ll get a real sense of how people feel…

I might watch the game just to see what happens! (not a big football fan)

the crowd has got to be stacked. First game back a lot of local pols and big wigs will eat up the ticket. No way they will risk him getting booed and having beer thrown at him.
How many Saints’ ticket holders are the poor people that lost their homes vs. the suburbanites who did not.

Mississippi tends to consider the Saints to be there home team as well and have for a long time…the fact that they have recently began their practice in MS has only intensified that. And while it seemed at first that we were doing better in terms of recovery here in MS, things haven’t gone anywhere on the coast in months now. There are a lot of ill feelings to Bush all over MS and LA and I can’t imagine that they will be able to keep all of those people out of the stadium. Especially since the Saints are winning! (2-0)

Tall, ice cold coke for the young, very tall, gentleman in the back. Right away, Sir.

newspaperbrat – I don’t think Ahnold’s jumbotron experience made the news or papers… you had to be there to see it… they popped his mug up on the big screen for a few seconds before the booing got very intense and prolonged and cut it off immediately when they figured out what was happening…

took awhile for the booing to stop… me? I was booing, laughing, booing, laughing… we, as a crowd, were very proud of ourselves…

ecb @ 179

UptownNYChick @ 158

OldCoastie @ 153

boy, I sure hope they put shrubya’s mug up on the jumbotron in N.O. – THEN he’ll get a real sense of how people feel…

I might watch the game just to see what happens! (not a big football fan)

the crowd has got to be stacked. First game back a lot of local pols and big wigs will eat up the ticket. No way they will risk him getting booed and having beer thrown at him.
How many Saints’ ticket holders are the poor people that lost their homes vs. the suburbanites who did not.

Mississippi tends to consider the Saints to be there home team as well and have for a long time…the fact that they have recently began their practice in MS has only intensified that. And while it seemed at first that we were doing better in terms of recovery here in MS, things haven’t gone anywhere on the coast in months now. There are a lot of ill feelings to Bush all over MS and LA and I can’t imagine that they will be able to keep all of those people out of the stadium. Especially since the Saints are winning! (2-0)

I hope so. There is a very good chance I can have an eye-witness report on that. I think I know someone going.

It seems to me that we have a perfect right to be angry at the 2004 loss. It also seems to me we have the right to speak up and let Kerry know that we are very sorry, but we’re not going down that road again. I’m sure he’s a good man and a good senator but no thanks.

It was over five years after Clinton shook his finger at us before I could even look at him. Well, I’m still so pissed I can’t look at Kerry and I make no apologies for it.

Is it late enough to blog-whore? Anybody read me today?

Ok… since no one can think of anyone except a Senator or someone from New England.. I am going to throw a name out that I wish would run in 08… Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer.

Do some research, find some audio on the internet and learn about a man that is very much like Howard Dean but is a MT version. He is my choice.

SteveAudio @ 225

It’s about that danged librul media again.

Kerry could have done better but the media enabled the swiftboaters. We must close Peter Daou’s Triangle.

Uptown -

I hope so. I am just at a loss to figure out WHY they would let him go there unless they already have a plan. Everythng with them is so scripted and this seems way too freewheeling for them.

perhaps they are stupid? out of touch? delusional?

HSAT– could I get a take away latte with a side of sushi? I could then rumble away in my Volvo with Barbra belting out some Hollywood favorites and head up to the global warmed top of the mountain and hug a tree and life would be… perfect.

Dr. Ben Marble of Gulfport MS– rock on!

I’ve got my diet coke and raise a glass to you all “here’s to the fight, till we win” clink.

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 171

::pouring you a nice Italian Pinot Grigio:::

and there’s also the Petron tequila if you want…

Now that’s service!

I could go for Schweitzer, but I seem to remember something about him saying he wasn’t interested…not positive though, and there is always the power of persuasion.

OldCoastie @ 187

Uptown -

I hope so. I am just at a loss to figure out WHY they would let him go there unless they already have a plan. Everythng with them is so scripted and this seems way too freewheeling for them.

perhaps they are stupid? out of touch? delusional?

Yeah, maybe. I hope so. Eveytime I get my hopes up that he will stand on the stage and the rest of the nation will wake up and say ‘hey, he has no clothes,’ I have been sorely disappointed.
The talk of Kerry has me depressed. Maybe that’s it.

OldCoastie @ 181

newspaperbrat – I don’t think Ahnold’s jumbotron experience made the news or papers… you had to be there to see it… they popped his mug up on the big screen for a few seconds before the booing got very intense and prolonged and cut it off immediately when they figured out what was happening…

took awhile for the booing to stop… me? I was booing, laughing, booing, laughing… we, as a crowd, were very proud of ourselves…

Thanks so much for your eye witness account – makes me ridiculously happy and oh so proud of you all. Arianna has never received proper raves for her valiant campaign and who could ever forget her Prius/his Humvee race commericial. Kudos oldcoasty!

Kak @ 10

Don’t forget when Kerry won in Iowa it was because he was “electable”. (sigh) The Democrats in 2008 need to pick someone who is willing to fight!

I hope the one lesson all the Democratic voters out there learned from the Kerry nomination is that trying to pick a candidate that “they can’t attack because…” is a doomed effort. Their attacks have nothing to do with the truth, so forget about finding someone who’s immune from attack, and concentrate on finding someone who will smack them down hard when they do.

Russ Feingold is for real. Check out the stances he has taken both about the war in Iraq, censuring Fuckwad, standing up for the Constitution and on and on. He is out there. Not grandstanding, but he is leading the way. He doesn’t have the DLC or any other of that devious big money behind him but he is a real leader. He walked out on a Specter committee meeting, for example, and that got ole Arlen’s knickers in a twist. The man has a real pair.

Mark Steckel @ 186

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 184

Is it late enough to blog-whore? Anybody read me today?

I did. First time, wont be the last. :-)

A simple “Thank You Mark Steckel”

The ‘08 democratic candidate will be Hillary Clinton.

You’ve obviously never heard of frontrunner fever. There’s many a slip twixt the anncmt and the nom. Ed Muskie in 72, yelling incoherent threats in the middle of a snowstorm. Ted Kennedy giving the speech of his life in 80. Ever hear of Mario Cuomo? Me neither.

Now that’s service!

Hostess with the mostess.

Kerry makes me crazy every time I listen to him… I want him to do well, but I often have trouble catching his drift…

that feeling of not understanding what I’m listening to? that sets off warning bells for me… Bush LITERALLY would give me a case of vertigo and I’d feel so stupid after to listening to him… I really thought I was having some sort of massive decrease in my mental capacities or something…

but that was because he was lying and I have that very visceral kind of reaction to it…

we need someone who doesn’t make us dizzy and has the testicles to fight… and the street smarts to do it well… Will it be Gore? I hope so…

Angie…I’m Having Dr. Marble deliver that sushi…any preference?

redshift has a good point. It would probably be better to have someone with some flaws because then we know what the repubs are going to start with so we aren’t caught off guard immediately with completely fictional attacks. Always easier to prepare yourself when you know what your weak spots are.

well, good night all – school tomorrow.. have a Coke, have a tequila, have a beer or a good pinot grigio… drinks on the house!

Yeah, yeah. Whatever.
It’s easy to say he’s not Presidential…but what the fuck does that mean? He didn’t get a blowjob in the oval office? He didn’t send people to war for profit? He didn’t get caught covering up a crime?
Nobody looks presidential until they become President.
Nixon didn’t look Presidential when he lost to Kennedy in ‘60, looked Presidential in ‘69, but not in ‘74…Truman didn’t look Presidential when he was a machine politician picked by Roosevelt in ‘44 then looked Presidential in ‘48 but not in ‘52.
And, about bullies, what a load of macho crap. How did he ‘run home to mama’? It was he who was still standing there on election day, fighting to the end. Because he didn’t challenge the election? Why would he if there was no way to win? All you do then is waste resources better spent on something you can win. Choose your fights.
Which state are you heroes from? How did your state vote? Mine went for Kerry, as did others. He must have done something right, to get so many people to vote for him and to come so close.
Stop tearing down progressive and work against the fascists. And get out from behind those computers and hit the street and the phonelines, or we’ll lose the midterms.
And you are whining.

I also concur with redshift. Its all about the smack-down after the fact, these people will do ANYTHING to win.

I spoke with David Sirota when I was at DemocracyFest in San Diego a couple of months ago about Schweitzer. David said that Schweitzer was dedicated to improve things in MT but also would not rule out a run in 2012. So far, he is the only one I can think of outside the beltway.

Bill Richardson & Janet Napolitano are too DLC.

Night Coastie…sweet dreams and thank you for being who you are and here.

ecb @ 201

redshift has a good point. It would probably be better to have someone with some flaws because then we know what the repubs are going to start with so we aren’t caught off guard immediately with completely fictional attacks. Always easier to prepare yourself when you know what your weak spots are.

I remember hearing the commentators talk about how the Repugs were going to attack Kerry’s military service during the convention. We should have known, Rove always attack what you think your strength is: Kerry – military service, Gore – too smart.
We need to attack first, screw civility.

OF KINGS AND MEN !

Hey, Chimpy asks for a permission slip from Pakistan:

“We are, Richard. Thank you. Thanks for asking the question. They were asking me about somebody’s report, well, special forces here — Pakistan — if he is in Pakistan, as this person thought he might be, who is asking the question — Pakistan is a sovereign nation. In order for us to send thousands of troops into a sovereign nation, we’ve got to be invited by the government of Pakistan.”

-George W. Bush

me too…I’m outie…long day. Be good all and never give up. We are stronger than they (and sometime we) think.

Peace, Out.

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 184

Is it late enough to blog-whore? Anybody read me today?

nicely whored, Hopey, and thanks for the reminder. those greens are so soothing! how will we get the attention of the TradMed about Princeton?
.
.
And TRex is right. (Can I just get a macro or a rubber stamp that sez that, dear?) Kerry will be a spectacular senior, senior Senator — perhaps he and Hillary can fight it out to be Majority Leader! Our next President is going to need terrific allies on the Democratic side to ensure all the war crime and profiteering referrals to the Hague go smoothly. And that the oil-company and Halliburton nationalizations go smoothly. And that health care gets implemented for all of us. And that our permission to re-enter the civilized world goes smoothly.

But, no, John Forbes Kerry. You ran a terrible campaign because you thought you could win the debates and that would win you the election.

Gotta be somebody from outside Washington with executive experience this time. I’m sad that my criteria exclude Russ, but I think that’s what we really need this time, for the party and for the country. But I could be convinced I’m wrong, by those who want Russ.

But no Kerry.

Titanyum @ 176

fahrender @ 159

So, let me get this straight, you are conceeding the nomination to the HIl? then what the *uck are we doing here?

Women could have said for the last 230 years they are conceding the election to a man, but they nevertheless got involved politically.

We make the progressive movement grow, one congressman and one senator at a time. Eventually, we WILL be strong enough to run with a
presidential candidate.

You will be and you should. And I am not against the Hil. I prefer Feingold, but if Hil gets the nomination I will vote for her. I have said more than once here at FDL that Hillary may end up biding her time and stay in the Senate. She could be a very powerful force there. It would be a lot less wear and tear on her if she chose that route. One of the things that may keep her out in ‘08 is the possibility of losing the election and then being without a platform. The time for a woman President of the United States is coming. Is it in ‘08? Maybe not. Waiting until ‘12 and the pressure for it builds. The big money says she’s going for it in ‘08. Maybe not, I say.

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 74

Kerry is how you say ‘pussy’ in gaelic..

(Not meant to offend any of my Irish brethren)

I’m terribly offended! We don’t smell nothing like garlic.

Potatos, corned beef, even Guinness, but nothing like garlic.

Gaelic? Whaddya mean gaelic? I thought she said garlic.

Jeez, don’t be telling me not to blog under the influence. *g*

I’ve said this here before – since last spring – and nothing that has happened since has changed my mind. I was beginning to think of modifying my stance, but then the late August 70 to 30 Senate vote on cluster bombs came out. Here it is again – if there IS a 2008 election:

Both D and R 2008 presidential candidates will be governors.
Both will be strong supporters of Israel
Both will be lukewarm on campaign finance reform
Neither will seek to limit campaign contributions from any legal source
A rational national health care policy will not be a major campaign issue
The environment will not be a major campaign issue

mjh @ 130– well done! Thank you most sincerely for the reminder of why I cared and worked so hard for him; you helped to rid me of my profound disappointment, briefly. :)

HSAT– any fish’ll do… ebi, maguro, sake– fresh with Dr. Marble’s free speech will be heavenly.

UptownNYChick @ 206

ecb @ 201

redshift has a good point. It would probably be better to have someone with some flaws because then we know what the repubs are going to start with so we aren’t caught off guard immediately with completely fictional attacks. Always easier to prepare yourself when you know what your weak spots are.

I remember hearing the commentators talk about how the Repugs were going to attack Kerry’s military service during the convention. We should have known, Rove always attack what you think your strength is: Kerry – military service, Gore – too smart.
We need to attack first, screw civility.

That’s also true. It is better to play offense than defense. But it is really going to come down to who can best deflect attacks and slam them back into the repubs faces.

Mad Dogs @ 212

HopeSpringsATurtle @ 74

Kerry is how you say ‘pussy’ in gaelic..

(Not meant to offend any of my Irish brethren)

I’m terribly offended! We don’t smell nothing like garlic.

Potatos, corned beef, even Guinness, but nothing like garlic.

Gaelic? Whaddya mean gaelic? I thought she said garlic.

Jeez, don’t be telling me not to blog under the influence. *g*

Thank you Emily Latella…

Thanks Teddy. I like the green too. night all.

Anyway, good to know that Kerry is declaring himself fully prepared to fight the last war. It reminds me of what Josh Marshall, I think it was, said about Bob Ney, something like: “Isn’t that funny — he’s the only one who doesn’t know he’s not running.”

I’m John Kerry and I’m reporting for combat duty 2 years late.

-GSD

RIP Patricia Kennedy Lawford

Mad Dogs (#212):

You are what you eat……… (eat garlic, smell like garlic)

What’s up with Democrats dropping like flies?

-GSD

TeddySanFran @ 219

RIP Patricia Kennedy Lawford

What?

fahrender @ 211

Titanyum @ 176

fahrender @ 159

So, let me get this straight, you are conceeding the nomination to the HIl? then what the *uck are we doing here?

Women could have said for the last 230 years they are conceding the election to a man, but they nevertheless got involved politically.

We make the progressive movement grow, one congressman and one senator at a time. Eventually, we WILL be strong enough to run with a
presidential candidate.

You will be and you should. And I am not against the Hil. I prefer Feingold, but if Hil gets the nomination I will vote for her. I have said more than once here at FDL that Hillary may end up biding her time and stay in the Senate. She could be a very powerful force there. It would be a lot less wear and tear on her if she chose that route. One of the things that may keep her out in ‘08 is the possibility of losing the election and then being without a platform. The time for a woman President of the United States is coming. Is it in ‘08? Maybe not. Waiting until ‘12 and the pressure for it builds. The big money says she’s going for it in ‘08. Maybe not, I say.

My problem with Hillary is it gets us stuck in a cycle of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton…and I don’t like where that leaves us in 2012 or 2016

GSD @ 221

What’s up with Democrats dropping like flies?

-GSD

seriously, and how is Cheney still kicking?

Respectfully, when some of us L.A. bloggers met with Kerry some months ago, I broached the subject with him about his response to the SwiftDicks. And to his credit, he came right back with several responses he had made, about which I had forgotten.

It’s about that danged librul media again.

Here’s what I wrote at the time: http://steveaudio.blogspot.com…..t-you.html

My problem with Hillary is it gets us stuck in a cycle of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton…and I don’t like where that leaves us in 2012 or 2016

Isn’t that the definition of Dynasty?
Royal Family?

katymine @ 35

I need some brainstorming help… I have a local state senator candidate who is running against the guy who wrote and sponsored the “Guns in Bars” bill and gets 100% of his campaign money from lobbists…. Anyway… I am trying to use the Lamont Kiss method… need an idea and visual to use for posters to use against the ReThug…

Any ideas?

How ’bout a drunken, staggering cowboy with a bottle of whiskey in one drunken hand and a good ole cowboy six-shooter in the other, drunken, hand. Could call it “Homeland Security”.

BTW, I took my family and neighbor family to the post-debate party at Tempe Town Lake. We were totally pumped, thinking we were involved in something special that night. We left the event pretty flat – thinking ‘is THAT all there is?’. What a downer.

ecb @ 223

fahrender @ 211

Titanyum @ 176

fahrender @ 159

So, let me get this straight, you are conceeding the nomination to the HIl? then what the *uck are we doing here?

Women could have said for the last 230 years they are conceding the election to a man, but they nevertheless got involved politically.

We make the progressive movement grow, one congressman and one senator at a time. Eventually, we WILL be strong enough to run with a
presidential candidate.

You will be and you should. And I am not against the Hil. I prefer Feingold, but if Hil gets the nomination I will vote for her. I have said more than once here at FDL that Hillary may end up biding her time and stay in the Senate. She could be a very powerful force there. It would be a lot less wear and tear on her if she chose that route. One of the things that may keep her out in ‘08 is the possibility of losing the election and then being without a platform. The time for a woman President of the United States is coming. Is it in ‘08? Maybe not. Waiting until ‘12 and the pressure for it builds. The big money says she’s going for it in ‘08. Maybe not, I say.

My problem with Hillary is it gets us stuck in a cycle of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton…and I don’t like where that leaves us in 2012 or 2016

Good point. In 2000, before I got really involved in politics, I tried to convince my dad (a former R) that it was unhealthy for the nation to vote for presidents from the same family. I think government is too incestous. This isn’t a monarchy.
I feel the same way about Hillary. We need new blood to keep democracy alive.

GSD @ 218

I’m John Kerry and I’m reporting for combat duty 2 years late.

-GSD

My family watched Kerry come on that stage during the 2004 Dem convention and pull the “salute” stunt. My brother-in-law and I turned to each other, rolling our eyes. He said “It’s fucking over.”

UptownNYChick @
224

GSD @ 221

What’s up with Democrats dropping like flies?

-GSD

seriously, and how is Cheney still kicking?

I watched a movie called “Patriot Act”, it is basically a comics tour of Iraq in the early part of the occupation…Jeffrey Ross is the comic.

There is a scene where Drew Carrey tells a crowd: “I had the stents and the bypass, just like Dick Cheney, only they left MY heart in.”

Very good line.

-GSD

Ed*ard Teller @ 228

GSD @ 218

I’m John Kerry and I’m reporting for combat duty 2 years late.

-GSD

My family watched Kerry come on that stage during the 2004 Dem convention and pull the “salute” stunt. My brother-in-law and I turned to each other, rolling our eyes. He said “It’s fucking over.”

He was reporting for “doody”. Because it was a crappy campaign.

-GSD

Clueless @227

BTW, I took my family and neighbor family to the post-debate party at Tempe Town Lake. We were totally pumped, thinking we were involved in something special that night. We left the event pretty flat – thinking ‘is THAT all there is?’. What a downer.

Should of gotten a clue with how poorly that event was managed. Ran out of water at around 7 pm and there was around 20-25,000 people, it was hot, crowded and really poor setup where only a few people were allowed into the “inner” circle.

katymine @ 226

I suppose. Does that mean they would eventually have to intermarry in order to unite the rival families?

angie @ 222

TeddySanFran @ 219

RIP Patricia Kennedy Lawford

What?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/…..index.html

SteveAudio @ 225

It’s about that danged librul media again.

Kerry could have done better but the media enabled the swiftboaters. We must close Peter Daou’s Triangle.

ecb @ 232

katymine @ 226

I suppose. Does that mean they would eventually have to intermarry in order to unite the rival families?

Rivals…. with Bill and Bush Daddy out playing pattycake all the time… na… they are already one big family

Found this grassroots video, well done!
Doolittle Facts by GetinTheirFace

It is based on Charlie Brown’s new ad about CNMI sex slavery and sweatshops supported by Doolittle.

Mark Steckel @ 234

SteveAudio @ 225

It’s about that danged librul media again.

Kerry could have done better but the media enabled the swiftboaters. We must close Peter Daou’s Triangle.

Word! (As the kids say…well, as they used to say, I mean, when..never mind)

motherlowman @ 54

katymine @ 35

I need some brainstorming help… I have a local state senator candidate who is running against the guy who wrote and sponsored the “Guns in Bars” bill and gets 100% of his campaign money from lobbists…. Anyway… I am trying to use the Lamont Kiss method… need an idea and visual to use for posters to use against the ReThug…

Any ideas?

Hayworth and Harper drunkenly grinning with their arms around each other’s shoulders, each holding a bottle of whiskey and a smoking pistol. Yeeee-haw!! (And don’t forget to sharpen JD’s hair!)

Holy shit, mother. Guess I should have read your post before submitting my idea – which was suspiciously similar to your idea. Sorry.

Ed*ard Teller @ 228

GSD @ 218

I’m John Kerry and I’m reporting for combat duty 2 years late.

-GSD

My family watched Kerry come on that stage during the 2004 Dem convention and pull the “salute” stunt. My brother-in-law and I turned to each other, rolling our eyes. He said “It’s fucking over.”

My reaction was, “Rove must love that.”

fahrender @ 211

I have said more than once here at FDL that Hillary may end up biding her time and stay in the Senate.

Hillary will be able to lock up the candidacy in ‘08. I think she will run with the ball. You don’t nurture that many influential contacts or amass oodles of money like Hillary does and then settle for minority leader in the Senate.

TeddySanFran @ 233

angie @ 222

TeddySanFran @ 219

RIP Patricia Kennedy Lawford

What?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/…..index.html

Thanks Teddy– I was off reading and thinking that I really cannot think of many prominent public figures anywhere that have dealt with as much grief and pain and shame as Ted Kennedy.

sad.

Patricia Kennedy Lawford Dies at 82

Mark Steckel @ 234

SteveAudio @ 225

It’s about that danged librul media again.

Kerry could have done better but the media enabled the swiftboaters. We must close Peter Daou’s Triangle.

That is why the Lamont Campaign was so important. That was why the wingnuts had to trash the blogs, that is why they had to go to Level Orange Terror alert. We did complete the Triangle.

There has been a Bush or a Clinton on the Presidential ballots continuously since 1980.

-GSD

This is all so much red meat, and it’s ugly to read through. It’s beneath us to slam Kerry like this.

Nobody was going to beat Bush in 2004. He wasn’t yet found out as an imbecile except by those of us on the left. He still seemed like a ‘good guy to have a beer with,’ he had the religion thing, Iraq hadn’t yet gone fully to hell, Katrina was a year away, and most of all he was a Republican incumbent running during a war. Some of you really really really really really need to get out and talk to actual voters instead of bouncing brainlessly around in the echo-chamber of the left blogworld.

Kerry could’ve done a lot better, but to pile on him with such glee is just painful to see. It smacks of projection, of self-hatred, of acting out like children. Get over it. If you don’t want to vote for him, fine, don’t (I won’t), and then shut the fuck up and do something constructive rather than tear down a fellow Dem.

Looks like the WaPo thinks Webb did well — big headline about Timmeh’s show, long article, well-balanced.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00348.html

Cannibalism is in season though.

-GSD

Tomorrow’s WaPo chatz:
Shalaigh Murray at 11 eastern:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01064.html

Joe Scarborough at 11 eastern:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00930.html

Howard Kurtz at noon eastern:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01142.html

Titanyum @ 240

fahrender @ 211

I have said more than once here at FDL that Hillary may end up biding her time and stay in the Senate.

Hillary will be able to lock up the candidacy in ‘08. I think she will run with the ball. You don’t nurture that many influential contacts or amass oodles of money like Hillary does and then settle for minority leader in the Senate.

Noooooooooooo! She’ll be a great majority leader! Not my candidate for President unless she repents… big time.

GSD @ 244

There has been a Bush or a Clinton on the Presidential ballots continuously since 1980.

-GSD

Put that way, it clearly needs to end. Now.

Aaaaah, it is refreshing to see so many trolls surfing in to trash John Kerry.

Is there one Democrat who doesn’t believe that a President John Kerry would have been a vast improvement over another four years for chimp-in-chief Bush? And if John Kerry runs again for the White House in 2008 (and wins the nomination) is there one Democrat who believes that a President John Kerry wouldn’t be a vast improvement over any “culture of corruption” Republican put in a suit to try to win the White House for their corporate pals again.

I just hope that when John Kerry goes after these swift-boat neo-con nuts, he employs the tactic I used against them, causing them to sputter incoherently:

Not only did the Swift Boat Liars go after John Kerry’s Vietnam War record, they also attacked the integrity of the U.S. Navy Department’s issuance of medals for valor. Therefore, these Swift Boat Lying freaks also attacked the veracity of any medals they might have ?earned? over in Vietnam, as they attacked the Navy Department for daring to issue fraudulent medals, as they claimed, to John Kerry.

The U.S. Navy Department, three weeks before the election, issued a statement in which they stood behind their issuance of medals to John Kerry for valor during the Vietnam War, and they stood behind the issuance of medals to all U.S. citizens who have received medals for valor in any U.S. conflict.

You see, someone at the U.S. Navy Department must have realized that not only were the Swift Boat Liars smearing John Kerry’s war record, they were also smearing the war records of, and medals awarded to, everyone who has ever served honorably and courageously in any conflict our great nation has ever been in.

And that is how Sen. John Kerry, the decorated war hero, should address the evil and nefarious designs of the Swift Boat Liars, by asking why these fools are attacking the war records of all current members of our military and all of our nation’s veterans.

Being a veteran, I was highly offended by what the Swift Boat Liars did and continue to do, calling into question my own military service. They have no honor. Which explains why they are intimately connected to the Bush administration.

I think Shalaigh rocks and I will try to moderate myself for Howard. Don’t know what to do with Joe, though. Thanks Teddy!

Go WEBB!

Good night, everybody.

Thanks for reading.

Hi djangone. I’m not a regular here, and actually I came on to complain about t-rex (sorry about that, patrick). But if you read back up the thread, there’s a lot from people who felt let down by the Senator. Complaining about us eating our own doesn’t begin to address the failure, the anger and frustration from the worst campaign fielded since the Dukakis debacle. Kerry stunk, man. He still stinks. And if t-rex wants to hold him up for a few more rotten tomatoes, no problem here at all.

djangone @ 245

This is all so much red meat, and it’s ugly to read through. It’s beneath us to slam Kerry like this.

Nobody was going to beat Bush in 2004. He wasn’t yet found out as an imbecile except by those of us on the left. He still seemed like a ‘good guy to have a beer with,’ he had the religion thing, Iraq hadn’t yet gone fully to hell, Katrina was a year away, and most of all he was a Republican incumbent running during a war. Some of you really really really really really need to get out and talk to actual voters instead of bouncing brainlessly around in the echo-chamber of the left blogworld.

Kerry could’ve done a lot better, but to pile on him with such glee is just painful to see. It smacks of projection, of self-hatred, of acting out like children. Get over it. If you don’t want to vote for him, fine, don’t (I won’t), and then shut the fuck up and do something constructive rather than tear down a fellow Dem.

That is a good point…I live in Mississippi and have many more constructive things I could be doing. Before the ‘08 presidential campaign we have this year’s Lott senate race (I have tried volunteering for challenger Erik Fleming, but they don’t seem to be very interested in actually campaining. There is a race for governor next year. And currently my mayor has been indicted on several felony counts. (Full disclosure he was technically elected as a democrat, but during his campaign he told a nice group of rich white women that he had to run as a democrat to be elected.)

djangone says @245

It smacks of projection, of self-hatred, of acting out like children. Get over it. If you don’t want to vote for him, fine, don’t (I won’t), and then shut the fuck up and do something constructive rather than tear down a fellow Dem.

I am so tired of the “get over it crowd”. Adults learn from events in the past, THAT is what we are discussing. NOT being children and whinning.

And for myself…. I continue to do things.
1. Attended DemocracyFest 2005 & 2006
2. Attended Yearlykos
3. Attended DFA candidate training May 2006
4. Elected Chair of my county DFA group
5. On the primary ballot to be an elected Prencint committee person
6. Working on three campaigns RIGHT NOW

Anyone who knows me have heard me say…. Unless you are doing something then you have NO right to whine. Well I am doing something, I do something everyday ….. It only takes 5 minutes or all day but I do something everyday.

WHAT are you doing?

katymine @ 243

Mark Steckel @ 234

SteveAudio @ 225

It’s about that danged librul media again.

Kerry could have done better but the media enabled the swiftboaters. We must close Peter Daou’s Triangle.

That is why the Lamont Campaign was so important. That was why the wingnuts had to trash the blogs, that is why they had to go to Level Orange Terror alert. We did complete the Triangle.

Yes we did. But I suspect, in the case of the Lamont campaign, it was more passion and anger (which are all good) that did the job. To make it last, we need to institutionalize the impact of the progressive blogs.

Haven’t read these comments but hell yeah. The way he conceded 2004 is exactly how Lieberman conceded 9 out of 10 issues that mattered to us. When are Dems gonna realize they have to go deep now and always to get what we want? It’s time! It’s always been time! Do something, you fuckers!

Wisdom of the ages:

1960’s: We had to destroy that village in order to save it.

1970’s: Watergate is proof that the system works.

1980’s: Helping the rich IS helping the poor

1990’s: By being the same as the Republicans, we can defeat the Republicans.

–Matt Groening, Life Is Hell

Gnight, TRex.

Linky question-
I have an ibook and have a link on my desktop. Can I just drag it into the comment? I previewed and it didn’t show up underlined.

Probably not, was it saved on your desktop?

ReneND 260:

Command-C to copy, Command-V to paste.

ReneND @ 260

Linky question-
I have an ibook and have a link on my desktop. Can I just drag it into the comment? I previewed and it didn’t show up underlined.

open the site and then copy the url from the address bar and insert it into the post using the link tab

katymine @ 261

Probably not, was it saved on your desktop?

Don’t know. Probably best to leave this to professionals.

Anyway rawstory has an article about a Jesus Camp in North Dakota( so embarrassed) Someone made a documentary. Weird goings on.

I have to add something else to help explain why what the Swift Boat Liars did to John Kerry pissed me off so much.

Members of my family have served during every conflict in which the United States has been involved, going back as far as the American Revolution.

By the Swift Boat Liars calling the U.S. Navy Department liars for daring to issue medals of valor to Lt. John Kerry during the Vietnam War, these Swift Boat Liars also called all of our nation’s military branches liars. Why? Because if the U.S. Navy Department could err in issuing the medals they awarded Lt. John Kerry, then all of our nation’s military branches must make mistakes in the issuance of medals…all the time. How the hell, therefore, can we trust that our military branches aren’t just issuing medals willy nilly on a whim?

Which is what I would ask any meeting of the VFW or the American Legion?

Do you agree with the Swift Boat guys that all medals issued to any soldier in any of our wars is suspect? And then I’d explain as I explained above that the Swift Boat Liars, in calling into question the Navy Department’s issuance of medals to Lt. John Kerry also called into question the veracity of any of the medals supposedly earned by any of the VFW or American Legion people in attendance.

It’s as simple as that.

That is what the Swift Boat Liars really did. And that is how Sen. John Kerry could have attacked them back then before the 2004 elections, but he can definitely attack them with this now, until the Swift Boat Liars stop their slanderous assault on the war records of, and medals awarded to, ALL members of the U.S. military who’ve ever fought in our nation’s wars.

As you might be able to tell, I’m really, really pissed at the Swift Boat Liars. They are scum.

And they might be able to correct this, but only if they are willing to retract their fraudulent claim they levelled at both John Kerry and the U.S. Navy Department, and apologize to ALL the members, both present and past, of our U.S. military whose war records, and medals awarded, they defamed.

But I’m not holding my breath.

If you open up the story from rawstory and copy the link. Use the link button and put in the URL and then in the text area put in Jesus Camp.

http://www.rawstory.com/showou…..id=2455343

Jesus Camp in North Dakota

Folks-
sorry that I was unresponsive on my thread downstairs. I had a gig tonight, and I only just got home. (It’s 3:02 EST.)

I am scanning through all of the comments now.

Thanks for all of your wonderful input on my entry!

The Oracle@ 265

I am right with you. My line is that I am the only one in my family who did not serve except as a dependent wife for 11 years. Dad was a Marine, Mom in the Navy, sister & maternal uncle USAF. Cousins were USAF, Marines & Navy. I too traced my family back and could be a member of DAR.

Taylor Marsh has been working with the Patriot Project which was put together to counter the Swifties. She has been all over this and hitting hard.

My own father was in the second wave that hit Tarawa. He was one of 11 who survived from his unit. So I do understand.

Patrick @ 267

Folks-
sorry that I was unresponsive on my thread downstairs. I had a gig tonight, and I only just got home. (It’s 3:02 EST.)

Some punk-ass rock’n’rollers, I bet.

Actually, I was gonna try to scan all the comments, but I am post-gig tired. I am fading fast.

i will try to find y’all tomorrow night……
falling asleep as I write this….

Night, Pat-trick!

I have just one question:

Why didn’t Kerry bust Bush’s balls in 2004 with some of the things learned since the Kerry Report in ‘89?

Talk a little about the Iran Contra players around Bush, say…Or BCCI.

I am heading off to bed…. have to work tomorrow… Nite Patrick … and all

SteveAudio @ 269

Patrick @ 267

Folks-
sorry that I was unresponsive on my thread downstairs. I had a gig tonight, and I only just got home. (It’s 3:02 EST.)

Some punk-ass rock’n’rollers, I bet.

Oh, yes.

Steve- I have a new snare drum. It’s solid ebony. You’ve never heard a drum with so many of the right sounds and so few of the wrong ones. It just sings!

It was made from a very old ebony tree- salvaged after a storm. It’s black black black- it’s colored like asphalt soup.

What a find!

G’nite, Pat-Trex.

TRex, you cutie:

Thanks. Your blast against Kerry’s accidental leak of testoterone was similar in tone to my reply to a recent Dem party motivational email introducing the muscular slogan of ‘playing offense’ to the cheating Bush.

First, I thanked them for coming up with this striking approach (i.e., pushing back). Then, I pointed out that this idea had been screaming to be heard in blogs for years and was an insult when credited to hack strategists the Democratic party compulsively burns money feeding.

Next, I reminded them of how impressively late they arrived at the concept of even pretendng to represent their constituents. Too late for my money.

Kerry, among other Dems, remains a laughing stock—and worse—in both hemispheres of my brain since his refusal to give more than a business-as-usual dry cough to win the last election.

His premature, airheaded concession to the Torture Team only served to amplify the image as weak that Democrats fought so hard among themselves over coffee to maintain.

A week after the completion of Kerry’s purposeful election blunders, I changed my party affiliation from unhappy Democrat to unhappy Independent.

I won’t vote for another obviously foolish Dem candidate like Kerry again no matter how many buckets of contrition he (or She) weeps into my inbox or how much outrage he promises he’ll consider proposing in the future.

OT, better fix those e-voting machines really soon, or it doesn’t matter how wonderful our side performs before or on election day. I don’t see why this has not been a significant topic for action here until very recently.

That said, a few drops of Rescue Remedy and I’m off to dream better dreams than this landbased nightmare.

darkblack @ 272

I have just one question:

Why didn’t Kerry bust Bush’s balls in 2004 with some of the things learned since the Kerry Report in ‘89?

Talk a little about the Iran Contra players around Bush, say…Or BCCI.

Ya had to throw that out when I was ready to hit the hay…

I agree, I watched Kerry during the Senate hearings during Vietnam, and others. It was like there was two Kerry’s, the one who kicked ass and stood up and the character that seemed to be defined by Rove. I kept waiting to see the first Kerry but kept getting the second.

djangone @ 245

This is all so much red meat, and it’s ugly to read through. It’s beneath us to slam Kerry like this.

Nobody was going to beat Bush in 2004. He wasn’t yet found out as an imbecile except by those of us on the left. He still seemed like a ‘good guy to have a beer with,’ he had the religion thing, Iraq hadn’t yet gone fully to hell, Katrina was a year away, and most of all he was a Republican incumbent running during a war. Some of you really really really really really need to get out and talk to actual voters instead of bouncing brainlessly around in the echo-chamber of the left blogworld.

Kerry could’ve done a lot better, but to pile on him with such glee is just painful to see. It smacks of projection, of self-hatred, of acting out like children. Get over it. If you don’t want to vote for him, fine, don’t (I won’t), and then shut the fuck up and do something constructive rather than tear down a fellow Dem.

Hmmm…a few points in response:

Politics is composed of many things, among them includes ripping the old model politician to shreds and then going on to construct the brand new silk purse politician out of a sow’s ears.

Kerry, Hillary, Gore, Edwards, Clark, Feingold, etc. all realize to be a politician is to paint a target on their chest.

I don’t begrudge TRex his post on Kerry. Nor do I begrudge those who would beatify Kerry for the next nomination.

I’m just not into begrudging very much.

Calling a politician a sinner or a saint is the lingua franca of political discourse and has been since Cain swiftboated Abel way back when.

There are so many ingredients yet to be added to the 2008 stew, that I’m quite sure no one yet can foretell the final repast.

As to your comment of “talk to actual voters instead of bouncing brainlessly around in the echo-chamber of the left blogworld”, it sounds that you are either relatively new to the Lake, or that you’ve not been paying very good attention. *g*

The folks who inhabit the Lake are renown for their hands-on and real-world political accomplishments.

Rather than an echo-chamber, what you instead have here is a megaphone that amplifies what our friends, our neighbors, our communities speak of daily.

If you don’t want to pile on Kerry, don’t! If you do, do so! Neither is wrong. Just politics. A time-honored spectator sport!

TRex on fire!

Ed*ard Teller @ 213

I’ve said this here before – since last spring – and nothing that has happened since has changed my mind. I was beginning to think of modifying my stance, but then the late August 70 to 30 Senate vote on cluster bombs came out. Here it is again – if there IS a 2008 election:

Both D and R 2008 presidential candidates will be governors.
Both will be strong supporters of Israel
Both will be lukewarm on campaign finance reform
Neither will seek to limit campaign contributions from any legal source
A rational national health care policy will not be a major campaign issue
The environment will not be a major campaign issue

On the GOP side Rev Gov Mike Huckabee R-ARK is practically living in Iowa and New Hampshire these days. He is a lame duck due to term limits and wastes no time.
Who will be the D-Gov candidate? Will check back in the morning for any thoughts on this.

The best few seconds of Kerry ‘04 were on CNN when he was caught muttering about Jr. the real truth I wanted so desperately to hear with his eye on the camera. It never happened and he failed to get my vote(no vote at all). I regret my decision and hope he remains a Senator who will wholeheartedly support President Russ and VP Clark in a couple of years.

Been way to upset this weekend over retro immunity for the Son of Bush. I resent this anger as much as the threats that keep me in this mood. It would be nice to have a candidate nearby who I could support. Fortunately we have Howie and FDL.

g’nite pupsters

Patrick @ 274

SteveAudio @ 269

Patrick @ 267

Folks-
sorry that I was unresponsive on my thread downstairs. I had a gig tonight, and I only just got home. (It’s 3:02 EST.)

Some punk-ass rock’n’rollers, I bet.

Oh, yes.

Steve- I have a new snare drum. It’s solid ebony. You’ve never heard a drum with so many of the right sounds and so few of the wrong ones. It just sings!

It was made from a very old ebony tree- salvaged after a storm. It’s black black black- it’s colored like asphalt soup.

What a find!

Dude! I have to hear this snare! Holy crap!

SteveAudio @ 280

Patrick @ 274

SteveAudio @ 269

Patrick @ 267

Folks-
sorry that I was unresponsive on my thread downstairs. I had a gig tonight, and I only just got home. (It’s 3:02 EST.)

Some punk-ass rock’n’rollers, I bet.

Oh, yes.

Steve- I have a new snare drum. It’s solid ebony. You’ve never heard a drum with so many of the right sounds and so few of the wrong ones. It just sings!

It was made from a very old ebony tree- salvaged after a storm. It’s black black black- it’s colored like asphalt soup.

What a find!

Dude! I have to hear this snare! Holy crap!

Just back into the house from a 90-minute recording session with my son’s band. After two years of frustration, they’ve got a great singer. Things coming together fast for them. Interesting to watch and listen.

That ebony drum sounds interesting.

General Election all 50 States:
1 month, 19 days, 15 hours, 2 minutes, and 2 seconds

Mornin’ to all us early birds,

Anybody seen an article in today’s latimes (I’m going to try the linky thing) re. tv fall scheduling @ abc? A few interesting nuggets for the grudge bearers amongst us.
A pox on the house of mouse & abc!

In the Rose Garden on Friday, President Bush announced:

The point is that the program is not going to go forward if our professionals do not have clarity in the law. And the best way to provide clarity in the law is to make sure the Detainee Treatment Act is the crux of the law. That’s how we define Common Article 3. […] You can’t ask a young professional on the front line of protecting this country to violate law …

His “young professionals” are CIA agents and CIA contractors who make their living subjecting people to waterboarding and other severe unpleasantries. He is concerned that under the commonly understood interpretation of Common Article 3 (CA3) the young professionals’ work is illegal, but he is confident that their work doesn’t violate the Detainee Treatment Act (DTA). The difference being that DTA prohibits “cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment,” while CA3 prohibits “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment.” Apparently Bush is concerned that waterboarding is “humiliating” but is confident that it isn’t “degrading.” Are you convinced? I didn’t think so.

The real difference is that CA3 and the legal opinions surrounding it are an extension of the legacy of Nuremberg, which rejected the just-following-orders defense. Bush wants to indemnify himself and his subordinates, including his young professionals, against war-crimes prosecution by reinstating establishing the good-faith variant of the just-following-orders defense: “I was acting in good faith on the assurances of my bosses and/or lawyers who said this stuff was legal.” John McCain wrote it into the DTA:

In any civil action or criminal prosecution against an officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent of the United States Government who is a United States person, arising out of the officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent’s engaging in specific operational practices […] that were officially authorized and determined to be lawful at the time that they were conducted, it shall be a defense that such officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent did not know that the practices were unlawful and a person of ordinary sense and understanding would not know the practices were unlawful. Good faith reliance on advice of counsel should be an important factor, among others, to consider in assessing whether a person of ordinary sense and understanding would have known the practices to be unlawful. …

In other words, if the president says it’s legal, it’s legal. And, by the way, the President relies on legal counsel, so we can’t pin the blame on him either. If it goes to trial, the young professionals walk, and so does the President. Slick!

But that had been the intended scheme since January 22, 2002, when White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales, advised the president that a presidential “determination” that the Geneva Convention does not apply in Afghanistan “substantially reduces the threat of domestic criminal prosecution under the War Crimes Act (18 U.S.C. 2441).” Accordingly, on February 7, 2002, Bush issued a memorandum, HUMANE TREATMENT OF TALIBAN AND AL QAEDA DETAINEES, announcing his opinion that GPW doesn’t apply to Al Qaeda and Taliban. In other words, on advice from counsel, Bush put up a sophomoric facade to facilitate a good-faith defense, should the need arise. With its Hamdan decision, the Supreme Court stepped in and threw that nonsense out the window. So now Bush is grasping for the good-faith loophole that John McCain wrote for him in the DTA.

IMHO, the struggle between Bush and McCain and the petulance in the Rose Garden are Kabuki theater, diversion and misdirection for the mainstream media.

Early Morning greetings from an early morning east coast. Clear skies, crescent moon visible. (Usual light ground fog.) Peace & Blessings.

Good morning FDL! Great post as always T-Rex. Kerry should *not* run for President. He can take the role of elder statesman, but anything else is going to come across as late-to-the-party petulance. (if this isn’t coherent, please forgive. I’ve only had one cup of coffee thus far)

For anyone interested in some spectacular micro-caligraphy Illuminated Joan of Arc the pieces is only three inches high, scroll down for a picture of the book being bound.

Yes, I’ve turned green from jealousy, it’s Glorious! (The calligraphic hand is a version of Batarde, or Bastard Secretary)

Titanyum @ 240

fahrender @ 211

I have said more than once here at FDL that Hillary may end up biding her time and stay in the Senate.

Hillary will be able to lock up the candidacy in ‘08. I think she will run with the ball. You don’t nurture that many influential contacts or amass oodles of money like Hillary does and then settle for minority leader in the Senate.

you may be right. i can’t deny that. meanwhile i’ll support Russ Feingold and hope for the best. (Full disclosure: i’m not from wisconsin and have no connections with the guy).

Waccamaw, so nice to see you this morning! I’ve finished the coat and I can highly recommend the pattern. I can’t get your link to work for me.

To Lotus, when you wake up, I’m so sorry that I missed the birthday celebration a few days ago. To make amends, I’ve got a big jar of lemon curd here just for you. After all, you only celebrate your “30th 29th” once, right?

I haven’t been able to spend much time reading posts and comments lately. Actually, I think I’ve just felt a bit overwhelmed by the news.

But I wanted to share this:
Whenever I’ve visited my mother, my stepfather has had Fox News on and my mother would go into another room to watch K. Olbermann.

She sent me an email the other day, ecstatic about K. Olbermann’s commentary on Bush and Sept 11 (The “Who left this hole in the ground…” one).

BUT she wrote: “…it took our breaths away.” — Note the plural possessive! Isn’t that great? Guess my stepfather’s “had enough”, too.

Fahrender, for what it’s worth, I’d love to see Feingold run as well. If he goes up against Hilary, I don’t know what his chances would be.

I’d love to see her as a powerhouse in the Senate, I think she’d be good in the role.

Morning everyone, drive by here.
Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq’s Green Zone by Rajiv Chandrasekaran
Monday, September 18, 2006; 12:00 PM
Monday, Sept. 18, noon E.T.

Book Excerpt
Best-Connected Were Sent to Rebuild Iraq
Adapted from “Imperial Life in the Emerald City,” by Rajiv Chandrasekaran, copyright Knopf 2006 Twenty-four-year-old Jay Hallen was restless. He had graduated from Yale two years earlier, and he didn’t much like his job at a commercial real-estate firm. His passion was the Middle East, and… In…
Book World Review
Mistakes Were Made
IMPERIAL LIFE IN THE EMERALD CITY Inside Iraq’s Green Zone

Rajiv Chandrasekaran, author of Imperial Life in the Emerald City, is an assistant managing editor of The Washington Post. He heads the Continuous News department, which reports and edits breaking news stories for washingtonpost.com, and he helps to shape the newspaper’s overall multimedia strategy.

From April 2003 to October 2004, he was The Post’s bureau chief in Baghdad, covering the American occupation of Iraq and supervising a team of correspondents. He lived in Baghdad for much of the six months before the war, reporting on the United Nations weapons-inspections process and the build-up to the conflict.

He will be online Monday, Sept. 18, at noon ET. to discuss his new book, Imperial Life in the Emerald City: Inside Iraq’s Green Zone, and to answer your questions.

If anyone gets a chance, I’d appreciate it if they could link this to Christy’s morning thread. It would be great if a lot of us could show the author our appreciation. I’ve already left one comment, you don’t have to wait until noon ET.

Morning Beardy–what a lovely little gem to peruse through your link. Did I ever tell you that we have a bookbinding business?

Pfiffer–congrats on finishing the coat!! And I love your little story about your family and KO!! I am so hoping that this is occurring coast to coast to coast and beyond.

Wig–nice rant!!

And, Far, how’s life in Dresden? Autumn starting to check in?

As I live and breathe, it’s John Casper!! Hi John! Thanks for the link–my nephew doesn’t talk much about life in the green zone…..

Good morning, Beard5, OS, Wigwam and Fahrender.

Beard, seeing the photo of the hands working on the binding sure helps put the miniscule size of the manuscript into perspective.

But you have nothing to be jealous of. Your work is amazing.

Kerry had his chance to prove he was a fighter, and it turned out he had no fight in him. If he wants to prove he’s changed, he’d better do it where he is – on the floor of the Senate. And he’s not exactly on fire there, is he?

I’m still waiting on Dems to use the “Mission Accomplished” pic/video to their advantage.

Mad Dogs @ 278

djangone @ 245

This is all so much red meat, and it’s ugly to read through. It’s beneath us to slam Kerry like this.

Nobody was going to beat Bush in 2004. He wasn’t yet found out as an imbecile except by those of us on the left. He still seemed like a ‘good guy to have a beer with,’ he had the religion thing, Iraq hadn’t yet gone fully to hell, Katrina was a year away, and most of all he was a Republican incumbent running during a war. Some of you really really really really really need to get out and talk to actual voters instead of bouncing brainlessly around in the echo-chamber of the left blogworld.

Kerry could’ve done a lot better, but to pile on him with such glee is just painful to see. It smacks of projection, of self-hatred, of acting out like children. Get over it. If you don’t want to vote for him, fine, don’t (I won’t), and then shut the fuck up and do something constructive rather than tear down a fellow Dem.

Hmmm…a few points in response:

Politics is composed of many things, among them includes ripping the old model politician to shreds and then going on to construct the brand new silk purse politician out of a sow’s ears.

Kerry, Hillary, Gore, Edwards, Clark, Feingold, etc. all realize to be a politician is to paint a target on their chest.

I don’t begrudge TRex his post on Kerry. Nor do I begrudge those who would beatify Kerry for the next nomination.

I’m just not into begrudging very much.

Calling a politician a sinner or a saint is the lingua franca of political discourse and has been since Cain swiftboated Abel way back when.

There are so many ingredients yet to be added to the 2008 stew, that I’m quite sure no one yet can foretell the final repast.

As to your comment of “talk to actual voters instead of bouncing brainlessly around in the echo-chamber of the left blogworld”, it sounds that you are either relatively new to the Lake, or that you’ve not been paying very good attention. *g*

The folks who inhabit the Lake are renown for their hands-on and real-world political accomplishments.

Rather than an echo-chamber, what you instead have here is a megaphone that amplifies what our friends, our neighbors, our communities speak of daily.

If you don’t want to pile on Kerry, don’t! If you do, do so! Neither is wrong. Just politics. A time-honored spectator sport!

Mad Dogs: What’s the point of piling on Kerry? It’s worse than pointless. It’s a waste of energy and a distraction from the important issues that we need to be thinking about and working on.

Katymine: You’ve got the bonafides, no question about that. A big thank you for the good things you are doing. I hope, at least, that we have put this matter to rest. We want the people who are turned off by this rant tonight to be with us. We need them and we certainly need as well the people who believe in John Kerry as a presidential candidate. The rant tonight alienates both of those groups. And we do really need to get over it. It’s bad kharma and Rove is lovin’ it.

Guitar Playing Bastard at 91 is most to the point here though not the first to wonder why the above post,(and that’s as far as I have rad in the comments). I’m with Farender above.

Good morning, y’all!

Wigwam at 284

I can’t wait to have some tea and let it get to work on my brain so I’ll be ready to read and take in this comment. Hope you recognize the respect implicit in my plan.

ecb

Hot dawg, another Mississippian! All these months, I thought I was the onliest one here! Jackson, or where?

Patrick

Steve- I have a new snare drum. It’s solid ebony. You’ve never heard a drum with so many of the right sounds and so few of the wrong ones. It just sings!

It was made from a very old ebony tree- salvaged after a storm. It’s black black black- it’s colored like asphalt soup.

Knock me a-windin’ with five words.

Now then, ON topic:

Nope, I too have seen all I need of John Kerry as presidential candidate — and for the same two reasons I’ve seen all I need of Hillary Rodham Clinton and Al Gore as presidential candidates.

First reason: blasts-from-the-past don’t do it for me (aside to Eli from the Arianna thread: I think “she-Clinton” will get more resistance than “woman.” Could be wrong.) — OR, I bet, for most of us.

Second reason: HRC isn’t the only of the three that Arianna’s observation (paraphrased) sticks to:

poster children for politicians giving in to their fear of somebody not liking them. Looking at them, they were clearly frightened of losing. And that disconnected them from their authenticity. You could smell the fear on them.

Al Gore has stepped out from under being a politician now, and I hope to God he keeps stepping, because he’s proven himself no more cut out for nominee-ing than John Kerry.

If my druthers mattered (or wishes were fishes), Bob Graham would wake up today 25 years younger and overloaded with charisma. Oh. Well.

Foolish to predict at this stage (where was Bill Clinton in America’s consciousness in mid-September 1990?), but fool that I be . . .

I kinda-sorta think Hillary will peel off and go for Majority Leader (RAH!), then it’ll come down to Clark, Edwards and Feingold … and somehow or somehow else … Edwards will get the nomination.

(And the process of finding out which Gooper he’ll face will be more interesting/appalling than the Dems’.)

hi OS, Beard, Pfifferling, John, RT,

I’m back on real time now. Just had to have my say, even if EPU’d, with the nightranters. i hope we’re finished with 2004 now. whew!

OS, it’s a beautiful day in Dresden. We’ve had more than a week of it now. i’m back at work after being off a couple of weeks to get some surgery done. sure is nice to get back in the swing of things.

y’all have a good day. i’d better hike it back to work for a while…..

OS, you do bookbinding? Woot! After the New Year, may I pick your brains? (I’ll be talking before then with a gentleman who specializes in medieval techniques, my trouble will be finding supplies, I think)

lotus,

i like your list. my gut feeling is that edwards and clark are just too nice. that’s how they come off to me. i could be wrong but that’s how it feels to me.
feingold seems to have a little more of the ole don corleone in him, and i think we need that in ‘08. and he’s hasn’t been fooled or intimidated by any of this cheney administration kabuki theatre. feingold may end up having an achille’s heel but i’ll stand with him until the will of the people (hopefully not the will of diebold) tells me to get with another program.

thanks, everybody. now i really do have to log off….

OS, our sunrise, peace and blessings to you too.

beardy, jeeminey, that’s gorgeous — and 3 inches tall?! What a mind-blower for the cracka dawn.

And speaking of which, what are you doing up this early, John? Pull a 24-hr shift from FDL Assignment HQ, didja?

Good ol’ fahr — what’s news in Dresden today?

Pfiff, honey — I printed off your lemon tart recipe and can’t wait to serve it to somebodies!

Greetin’s to you too, RT. Wondering why so few of them have done that yet, myself. Talk about a gift from the gods!

farender, thanks for being on the other side of the clock. You often spoke for me through this thread!! Nix to the Hil, Gore and Kerry as presidential candidates, but please leave the inner hatchet jobbing. For our presidential candidate, we need someone fresh. Let those others carry on their work either in the Senate, or the private sector.

Amen to your 301, OS.

Hi Pfiff,
Sorry about the link; had to type it in by hand & don’t know how to modify previous. Try this – http://www.latimes.com/busines…..-business.

Do you mean you finished the muslin or the final product? Either way, good on ‘ya. If the latter, what’d you decide by way of fabric?

Back in a bit; gotta go walk the furry child.

fahr, you a boogah for not telling us about the surgery before! But I hope your recovery’s coming along as smooth and comfy as can be.

katymine @
172

mOropeza @ 148

Also I want somebody who is going to fight not just when they are attacked like Kerry was I want someone who is going to call George allen a macaca, Jon Macain a wimp for shaking bush’s hand after bush lied about him having a black kid, I want someone who will say anybody but Bill First as my Dr if I ever go into a coma I want a Dem who will hit FIRST AND KEEP HITTING

Amen….THAT is the point….

sniff… sniff… I smell a flame thrower in our midst’s…

My issues with Kerry:
1. Did NOT stand up to the Swifties
2. Did not make a principled stand on Iraq
3. Folded like a cheep suit before ALL the votes were counted.

We deserved a candidate to stand up and fight to be Presidnet and then standup and fight for our rights to have our votes counted. To me, it is a little too late to kiss and make up.

No not a flamethrower just one of the wargods children who would rather not see Krasilec in his lifetime by the way listen to “gimme three steps” by Skynard great tune about a guy who hits on a girl at a bar only to have her boyfriend pull a gun on him funny as hell plus a hit with the progun crowd good people who know all about drunk and dangerous plus this tune appeals to that audience it should help peel off the NRA guys I mean everybody deserves to drink in peace

Good morning all — almost no sleep last night and a LONG day ahead….

I read a bunch of the thread –
Let me start by saying that I have never been a Kerry fan — he is quite poor on constituent services here in his home state. That said, this post smacks of personal disappointment at the loss — which I attribute to the power of Bush rather than the failures of Kerry. “If only he did this or that differently….” If Kerry had acted differently, there would have been a different response, a different slime, and probably the same result. Does anyone really KNOW that an aggressive Kerry would have received more votes? He might have made us feel better, but I am not able to say he was a total failure or always made the wrong path. As Robin Hitchcock sings in a love song, “I wouldn’t be me if you wouldn’t be you.”

And these judgments of Kerry are based not on our ability or experience but on our disappointment.

When I was a kid, my Dad called this sort of thing: “Griping from the cheap seats.”

mOropeza! Morning, dahlin’ — but get to a gyno soon’s you can, find out what’s with all your missing periods . . .

OS….a quick confession at bedtime….I often come one last time to the computer to see your morning greetings. I spent a short bit of time in Biddeford Pool (think that is how it is spent) Maine years ago and love thinking of the morning rising on the coast there.

That crescent moon was so sweet, rising behind Mt. Tauhara here in NZ this morning and now the night stars are so thick that we can see the vivid Milky Way, even with the street lights all blazing away. The Southern Cross swings above and I do ask that you say goodnight, tonight, to my beloved Drinking Gourd, the Big Dipper.

Goodnight, all….

Apologies for my lame-o 307, friends.

imm, Happy Monday and a fine week to you! (Sorry you’re running on little sleep, but maybe you can make up for it soon?)

Hey Fahrender……..Justin in defense of the Pope

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9709

Lotus gyno sheesh I just drift run out get late munchies drift back try and read all the comments (lots to think about ya know) what ya miss me?

NZE flits in-&-out again, leaving mind-goodies as always . . . *sigh*

Thanks lotus, I just will need a constant supply of strong coffee.

My rapidly aging brain has been known to get lost in the middle of a Kerry multiple-clause sentence, but he was so well-spoken when I saw him on Late Edition last week.

I couldn’t believe I was listening to the same person.

I’m really looking forward to some good debates amongst the Democrats.

I would have no problem voting for him again if he ends up with the nomination, but I agree, new faces, new blood! Fair criticism, yes, but no need to tear someone down.

Fahrender, hope you’re recovering nicely!

Waccamaw, the link works now. Thanks! I finished the muslin, not sure yet about the final fabric. But I like the muslin – cozy fleece!

You bet we miss ya, mOro! Have a good one today. (Let’s see, you’re where — Illinois? Indiana?)

Lotus…I’m too substantial for flitting….but I do have to share this computer with teenage son (has to follow the US sports and do his American History online…oh and physics too) and a husband who is about as obssessed about politics as I am.

I do enjoy watching personalities emerge through words. That is a great pleasure here.

“watching personalities emerge through words”

Beautifully put, NZ Expat!

NZexpat–from your keypad to the great mystery………sweet dreams…….

Hey Imm….thanks for all the work you do in the trenches. Mostly no-one else knows when we are tired, and sometimes amazing things come through when some of the armor is down. Still, here, I’ll help hold some of your fatigue for you…….

No Lotus used to live in Illinois now I’m in Seattle My last job was working nights so I’m still having trouble sleepin now I work at home but your east coast right this is morning for you

War with Iran:

http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..16,00.html

this is going to be one fucked up October

Paul Craig Roberts: The Torturer Tries To Save His Own Hide…….

http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=9710

Well, NZE, all I know is, that this is one of maybe two times that you and I have actually been in time to yoohoo each other “screen to screen.” So whatta treat!

And yes, the personalities are the very best part of this thing — the action and ideas are priceless too, of course, but coming to love so many friends around the world is the essence of the Lake for me.

Yep, mOro, I’m on the central Florida coast, where it’s just getting light.

Speaking of friends around the world, didja catch kimba and suezboo on the Arianna thread? And Our Medaka even dropped in for a few Saturday morning, too!

GSD @
208

Hey, Chimpy asks for a permission slip from Pakistan:

“We are, Richard. Thank you. Thanks for asking the question. They were asking me about somebody’s report, well, special forces here — Pakistan — if he is in Pakistan, as this person thought he might be, who is asking the question — Pakistan is a sovereign nation. In order for us to send thousands of troops into a sovereign nation, we’ve got to be invited by the government of Pakistan.”

-George W. Bush

GSD Permission we give them military aid we bought our ticket into Pakistan besides when has GW EVER RESPECTED a sovereign nations borders? opps my bad they have a bomb no wonder GW is respectful and no wonder Iran wants one still we paid these guys what they won’t honor the bribe cancel the military shipments to their country at the very least GW you Moron

This article in Haaretz starts out talking about Tzipi Livni saying we may only have a few months until Iran is nuclear, but goes on in much more depth talking about the Venezuela-Iran connection…Venezuela being interested in a UN Security Council seat…..

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/763656.html

I guess the Republicans will choose the Democratic presidential candidate since it can’t be Senator Clinton because she’ll be “red meat” for them. As if any Democrat isn’t red meat for the Rovers in any circumstance.

The traditional media have already elected McCain as the next president. They have been campaigning for him since he lost the nomination to Bush. Hillary will be their red meat but she will not back down from them or the opposition (including other Democrats). Is that not a consideration when I keep hearing Kerry lost because he backed down?

How amusing to hear that she can do great things in the kitchen (Senate leader) but don’t let her near the main job. For this reason, or that reason, or no reason. Baloney!

Let the rants begin.

Mornin’ folks. How is everyone today?

U.S. war prisons legal vacuum for 14,000

“It was hard to believe I’d get out,” Baghdad shopkeeper Amjad Qassim al-Aliyawi told The Associated Press after his release — without charge — last month. “I lived with the Americans for one year and eight months as if I was living in hell.”

OS, you know, I have some trouble with that Roberts essay . . .

The “poor deceived President Bush” thing doesn’t fly, and the “Many studies have concluded that people who go into interrogation and police work are bullies who like to exercise power and hurt people” really rubs me the wrong way — much too cavalier and conclusory. Let’s see these “many studies,” or at least one or two, Mr. Roberts.

Ellsberg: Time To Drive Out Bush

http://www.truthdig.com/report….._out_bush/

Okay, I’ve got MY motor running…….

Hi Sally, twolf1…….Let’s get through this election cycle first before we see who looks best for 2008…….there’s not enough time to spend our energy dishing anyone wrt 2008 and getting our job done now.

Drat the luck. Didn’t Time online used to be free? Not that long ago? Now you get one graf and then a subscription-invitation.

“The perch was THIS big guys… really it was!”

“no, it was this big…”

“would you believe… this big?”

Lotus, I read Roberts frequently, and I think some of this poor Bush stuff is deep snark. Did you read the whole article?

Wow, OS. From your Ellsberg link:

I keep looking at that date on the calendar – Oct. 5. I think of 1969—I was copying the Pentagon Papers with Tony Russo in that month, starting Oct. 1. My intention, however, at that time was to bring them out in connection with something called the Moratorium on Oct. 15, 1969… because on that day … across the country 2 million people marched. Not in any one place; they were counted up and added up because they all walked out, it was a weekday, out of school, out of businesses on that weekday. They met in rallies, heard many speakers—in those days there was great tolerance (well, there still is to some extent) for a lot of speeches. But it was a weekday and they called it the Moratorium because people thought the word “general strike” was too provocative, but that’s what they had in mind.

It was a walkout; in other words it was not business as usual. The president was watching it in the White House, hour by hour, while pretending that he wasn’t. In fact he was in the situation room getting half-hour reports on how many people. They were being counted, in Washington and New York, from a U2 [plane] above. […]

What a day to remember, Moratorium Day, 1969. Marching in Fayetteville, Arkansas, I was. Watching a fellow hippie climb and “occupy” a big old tree behind Old Main on the UofA campus.

Heady days.

We may need to do that again, before this is all done. Or maybe this time, it’s all to be “virtual” instead . . . ? A la Disney/ABC?

twolf1, that’s probably what he was saying!

I read all that was there on that page, OS — was there a link to more that I missed?

“We needed you to shout and you mumbled. I am NOT going to let you let me down again.”

–Amen

Instead? He went goose hunting!!! Ugghh!

Joel

Old Sow (335), that’s my point. Don’t dis Senator Clinton or rev up for someone else at this stage of the game. We should be expecting the absolute worst from the fascists by 2008 and working to stop them which will be hard to do since they have the floor.

Good giggles, twolfie.

As ever, NYT’s lede story poses the question “When do we laugh and when do we cry?”

Bid to Stockpile Bioterror Drugs Stymied by Setbacks
By ERIC LIPTON
Project BioShield, a $5.6 billion effort to expand the nation’s medical stockpile, has largely failed to deliver, critics say.

Graphic: A Stockpile, Long in the Making

Sample passage from the story I linked at 342:

Health department officials acknowledge some problems but say they have made progress. “Medical discovery is an unpredictable process,” said Bill Hall, a spokesman. “It is the nature of science.”

But some companies on the sidelines say the experience with the anthrax vaccine is exactly why they do not want to do business with Washington. Once optimistic about the president’s promise, many biotech companies and public health experts are now discouraged.

“The inept implementation of the program has led the best brains and the best scientists to give up, to look elsewhere or devote their resources to medical initiatives that are not focused on biodefense,” said Michael Greenberger, director of the Center for Health and Homeland Security at the University of Maryland.

Even some former department officials who helped create BioShield are dismayed.

“I find this all rather repugnant,” said D. A. Henderson, a former top bioterrorism official. “You have people here who, in the face of a problem of serious import, are using every tactic they can to line their own pockets.”

Same song, gazillionth verse.

You’re right on the no links from that article, Lotus. He does say, however, that lying is a full time job for this administration……….and many of his readers are strong (real) conservatives who agree with us progressives quite frequently now, in some part, thanks to his continual hammering of Shrubya.

Amen Sal…..and get out your waders……

Robert Fisk!

http://www.counterpunch.org/fisk09162006.html

According to WaPoo:

The Abramoff Echo
Corruption That Shook Capitol Isn’t Rattling Elections
Abramoff Case and Others Not Necessarily Key Issues

By Blaine Harden
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 18, 2006; Page A01

HAMILTON, Mont. — Sen. Conrad Burns gazed at a debate audience and asked if anyone could guess who was blocking efforts in Washington to control health-care costs.

“Abramoff?” shouted a heckler. The crowd at a packed high school auditorium here in Montana’s Bitterroot Valley erupted in hoots and jeers.

Visibly angered, Burns, 71, shot the audience a don’t-mock-me glare. But his debating point (blaming Democrats for health-care costs) and his senatorial dignity were swamped by the contempt of constituents who for nearly a year have been lapping up revelations about his ties to disgraced Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

Burns, though, soldiered on through the catcalls and sneers — and not without reason. He may be carrying Abramoff on his back, but in this thinly populated, Republican-leaning state, he continues to run neck and neck with his Democratic challenger, Jon Tester, president of the Montana Senate. Poll numbers have not moved much in months.

For all the influence-peddling that has been exposed in the run-up to the midterm election, corruption on Capitol Hill has not become a decisive issue — here or in much of the country. The Abramoff scandal, having ended the careers of a few lawmakers and stained the reputations of several others, can certainly rile up ardent Democrats, as the debate here demonstrated. But it is not making fundamental changes in the nation’s partisan landscape, especially in races, as with Burns in Montana, in which candidates are facing only unsavory stories rather than indictments or guilty pleas. […]

CNN NASA – condition of “light smoke” on the International Space Station

Sally and OS, I get your point. However, the fear that is addling potential Presidential candidates for 2008 is informing their current behavior in the Senate in real time. Watching them run through their pose du jour is excruciating as we experience the wholesale breakdown of our entire government and foreign relations, while our cities and our people are tossed aside like so much inconvenient debris.

CNN NASA – now they are saying it was a “bad smell.” I guess that’s what happens when you eat beans from a tube.

From OS’s Fisk link:

From Abu Ghraib to Guantanamo to Bagram, to the battlefields of Iraq and to the “black” prisons of the CIA, humiliation and beatings, rape, anal rape and murder have now become so commonplace that each new outrage is creeping into the inside pages of our newspapers. My reporting notebooks are full of Afghan and Iraqi complaints of torture and beatings from August 2002, and then from 2003 to the present point. How, I keep asking myself, did this happen? Obviously, the trail leads to the top. But where did this cult of cruelty begin?

So first, here’s the official US Army “Soldier’s Creed”, originally drawn up to prevent anymore Vietnam atrocities:

“I am an American soldier.

I am a member of the United States Army–a protector of the greatest nation on earth. Because I am proud of the uniform I wear, I will always act in ways creditable to the military service and the nation that it is sworn to guard …

No matter what situation I am in, I will never do anything for pleasure, profit or personal safety, which will disgrace my uniform, my unit or my country.

I will use every means I have, even beyond the line of duty, to restrain my Army comrades from actions, disgraceful to themselves and the uniform.

I am proud of my country and it’s flag.

I will try to make the people of this nation proud of the service I represent for I am an American soldier.”

Now here’s the new version of what is called the “Warrior Ethos”:

I am an American soldier.

I am a warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the Unites States and live the Army values.

I will always place the mission first.

I will never accept defeat.

I will never quit.

I will never leave a fallen comrade.

I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.

I am an expert and I am a professional. I stand ready to deploy, engage and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat. I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.

I am an American soldier.

Like most Europeans–and an awful lot of Americans–I was quite unaware of this ferocious “code” for US armed forces, although it’s not hard to see how it fits in with Bush’s rantings. I’m tempted to point this out in detail, but my American veteran did so with such eloquence in his letter to me that the response should come in his words: “The Warrior Creed,” he wrote, “allows no end to any conflict accept total destruction of the ‘enemy’. It allows no defeat … and does not allow one ever to stop fighting (lending itself to the idea of the ‘long war’). It says nothing about following orders, it says nothing about obeying laws or showing restraint. It says nothing about dishonourable actions …”.

So who redrafted the “Soldier’s Creed” to the “Warrior Ethos”? Rummy? Addington? Yoo? Some general(s)? Certainly not a JAG . . .

meta @ 353

Sally and OS, I get your point. However, the fear that is addling potential Presidential candidates for 2008 is informing their current behavior in the Senate in real time. Watching them run through their pose du jour is excruciating as we experience the wholesale breakdown of our entire government and foreign relations, while our cities and our people are tossed aside like so much inconvenient debris.

Thanks Meta, you are eloquent and concise. I’m also with you on this point and I just do not get what the fear-addling is connected to.

And I also resent being treated as debris by our elected officials. That’s why I think we need someone “fresh” for the next pres election.

More amen to meta and OS.

Granted that we have one of the worst disasters of a President this nation has ever seen…
What we need more than anything is a return to a balance of power.
Congress that stands up and a balanced SCOTUS.
And the branch which has failed worst is Congress.
Oh, and for the record, I never thought ‘electable’ was the best measure of presidential timber.
GWB should not have been thought electable.
A miserable track record, poor public speaking and a total lack of foreign policy background.
The track record was obscured by statistics, poor speaking spun as an indication of authenticity, wrong headed willfullnes spun as resolve, and the foreign policy void was supposed to be filled by Cheney, Rumsfeld and Powell, all of whom had experience.
Well, that sure worked out fine.
Anyways,
THIS year’s election is the important one.
Eyes on the prize pups.

Assumimg Diebold doesn’t steal novembers election (leading to riots all over the nation) The dems will win the house now if Nancy Pelosi has any ambition presidential or otherwise she can block appropations to the army and even shut down the government unless GW pulls out of Iraq. If she has the guts to pull it off she would get a lot of credit and be the frontrunner for president. Plus every other democrat running for president would have to outLEFT her by supporting the minuim wage, national healthcare etc a bidding war based ON OUR TERMS. (reading Sun Tzu has finnally paid off) How else can we shape/trap the debate so WE and not the Mainstream Media set the agenda? Also the Republicans will be trapped by everyone being happy the troops are home. Good jobs for the returning troops could win their votes. I’m thinking a national job program highspeed trains and or monorails nationally It would save gas because they are less fuel intensive than planes. Plus a national train system could be built in each state the railway crosses so long as the surveyors make sure the tracks meet. Plus 300 mph monorails linking major cities to the burbs could cut down trafic and drive time! Not only that these would be high wage construction jobs!

OS, I won’t go on about this because I respect the point you and Sally are trying to make, but to my mind and my heart – well, my conscience – the only person who has the intellect, integrity, fortitude, honor, and locution is Feingold. He is a person of great distinction and principle, and he takes action. He gets it. He is not a retread and has no need for cover. So far, he is the only person for me.

Meta (353), I, too, want the Democrats to stand up and be counted and cannot fathom why they don’t. There’s not a Democrat who has satisfed me he or she is the one for our time. In the very recent past I thought it was Gore but today I’m not at all sure of that. The one thing I do know is that this country has to cleanse itself of the Republicans and their every-man-for-himself mantra. If that doesn’t happen, no one can save us.

(reading Sun Tzu has finnally paid off)

Back to “if wishes were fishes”:

Sun Tzu comes back to life one Sunday afternoon just in time for FDL Book Salon — Mark Steckel having meanwhile miraculously hooked up Spotlight to all Capitol Hill and campaign offices . . .

Feingold is my choice as well, meta. Now that we’ve settled that………:~)…….to the fore…

This from ToL is so All Wrong:

Nun shot dead as Pope fails to calm militant Muslims

From Richard Owen in Rome

AN ITALIAN nun was killed by gunmen at a children’s hospital in Somalia yesterday in an apparent revenge attack for the Pope’s speech about Islam last week. […]

CNN – D.C. – Man drives car through construction area and slams it into the U.S. Capitol building. The man was found in the Flag room and taken into custody.

Aphorism query:

I always heard “If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.” But my golf pal from Cincinnati says “If wishes were fishes … .” I think hers is cuter, but we don’t know how it ends. I made up, “… nobody would drown” just to finish it somehow.

Anybody here know how “If wishes were fishes” is officially supposed to end — or is sly ol’ Marilyn just having fun with me (again)?

lotus @ 341

Wow, OS. From your Ellsberg link:

I keep looking at that date on the calendar – Oct. 5. I think of 1969—I was copying the Pentagon Papers with Tony Russo in that month, starting Oct. 1. My intention, however, at that time was to bring them out in connection with something called the Moratorium on Oct. 15, 1969… because on that day … across the country 2 million people marched. Not in any one place; they were counted up and added up because they all walked out, it was a weekday, out of school, out of businesses on that weekday. They met in rallies, heard many speakers—in those days there was great tolerance (well, there still is to some extent) for a lot of speeches. But it was a weekday and they called it the Moratorium because people thought the word “general strike” was too provocative, but that’s what they had in mind.

It was a walkout; in other words it was not business as usual. The president was watching it in the White House, hour by hour, while pretending that he wasn’t. In fact he was in the situation room getting half-hour reports on how many people. They were being counted, in Washington and New York, from a U2 [plane] above. […]

What a day to remember, Moratorium Day, 1969. Marching in Fayetteville, Arkansas, I was. Watching a fellow hippie climb and “occupy” a big old tree behind Old Main on the UofA campus.

Heady days.

We may need to do that again, before this is all done. Or maybe this time, it’s all to be “virtual” instead . . . ? A la Disney/ABC?

Mornin’ Pups,

I think the petalled one may be on to something. You know a moratorium on October 15th would only be 3 weeks before Election Day.

Actually, I would like to see it a little closer to Election Day so voters will still be energized.

Right after 9-11 there waas a day when everybody went out in front of their houses with a lit candle. I didn’t get home in time, but on my drive home (through the mansions of Old Brookville no less, folks has 1/4 mile hike down thier driveways to get to the road) Almost every driveway had a family standing in it holding candles and waving top the cars passing by an smiling. Some sang the national anthem or other similar songs.

I road with my windows open, calling out and waving back and thanking them. I felt such a sense of community. That is what :grass roots” means to me.

Folks keep saying why aren’t we taking to the streets. What about a general strike or Moratorium to protest torture and in opposition to deviation from gthe Geneva conventions?

If nothing else, it will show the rest of the world that the AMmerican People (as opposed to the AMerican Leaders) are not in favor of babarism.

I think we could do this. I think it involves less effort than the ABC thing or even the Lamont thing.
It’s 1) pick a day and time
2) put up some downloadable signs
3) blog the hell out of it
4)email everyone you know
5)walk out at the appointed time with sign and/or candle or whatever symbol

Lotus why not! lots of philosophers are into politics one of them could lead a book discussion on what Sun Tzu would likly do and Yeah! we could do the Prince by Nichole the next week FDL does the classics! Heck I read these books already besides someone has to show George Will that reading the classics is not the same as understanding them!

Sad to say but maybe the term flip-flopper had some merit.

The punching bag has now become the resolute tough guy, something that should have happened the day after the false advertising appeared.

Perhaps Americans sensed something about about Kerry, which was not so much concerned with the substance or message of the Swiftboater ads, but his subsequent lack of response in defending his reputation and honor, and did some extrapolation.

It’s too late baby.

memo to john kerry:

go away

please

thank you

Slow news tonight! Or did you need a mandatory attack on Democrats.

Not sure, but frankly, this article was totally meaningless and written to have Democrats eat their owns. It seems to have succeeded. Who’s next?

Well, I will come back and read when you will be a progressive blog again.

I like it, lhp, and Good Morning to you! I been saving a little treat just for you from Book Salon yesterday. JW’s text in bold:

Joe Wilson @ 129

lotus @ 120

Well-shucks that Arianna had to leave so soon, but how nice to see “Joe Wilson says” ’round here again!

Welcome back, Ambassador! Quite the Sunday-afternoon hangout we have going on here these days, no?
I think that what you all are doing here is great. It is the wave of the future. I had the chance to see Jane and Matt Stoller in SF on Friday. It is always fun for the past (me) to hang with the future (them.. and you.)

And how we all look forward to the Book Salon featuring “Valerie Wilson says”!

See? ALL great minds have cursor-placement challenges sometimes. So be of good cheer, you’re in impeccable company!

Yes, Mr Ellsberg… Moratorium sounds like music to my ears.

The candle thing was powerful, and could be powerful again, but banging pots and pan in the streets is a little louder, and reminds us of how many of us there are and how powerful we can be. Sound carries far even in a rural area such as mine, where from my home, I might only see one other candle. (I did join with others and candles the last time and it was a wonderful blessing.)

And a little noise might be a little more alarming to BushCo…….

Changing my vote Anthony Zinn that Marine general who is against the war my first history of china, and one of my versions of Sun Tzu were written by a Marine general. I’m betting all the officers have to read it. Plus he has experience in our current government and military. Plus he will bring in a lot of troops. We probably will need extra time and he would need a fast typist to keep up.

Mornin’, firedogs!

I was a good boy and got up bright and early for my Monday morning staff meeting aaaaaaaand…it was cancelled.

Old Sow @
315

Hey Fahrender……..Justin in defense of the Pope

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9709

now that was pretty amazing! i haven’t been to antiwar.com in months. justin’s writing style is really peculiar/pedantic or what i can’t quite pin down, but stupid he ain’t. and you wonder why this whole matter got treated the way it did (from both three sides). very interesting……

Kerry would make a good president. But he was a terrible candidate. I’m throwing my support behind a Gore draft. I hope whoever the nominee is, he (or she) kicks the corrupt Republicans’ asses. The stench of Bush’s failures is going to be hard to avoid in 2008.

Whoever takes office in 2009 is going to have a big mess to clean up. America’s prestige has taken a huge hit because of Bush’s criminality and incompetence, and we may never be able to reclaim it, but a good first step would criminal charges against Bush and the rest of his criminal gang.

lotus @ 366

Aphorism query:

I always heard “If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.” But my golf pal from Cincinnati says “If wishes were fishes … .” I think hers is cuter, but we don’t know how it ends. I made up, “… nobody would drown” just to finish it somehow.

Anybody here know how “If wishes were fishes” is officially supposed to end — or is sly ol’ Marilyn just having fun with me (again)?

Maybe it’s…”If wishes were fishes, then beggars would eat.”

meta @ 360

OS, I won’t go on about this because I respect the point you and Sally are trying to make, but to my mind and my heart – well, my conscience – the only person who has the intellect, integrity, fortitude, honor, and locution is Feingold. He is a person of great distinction and principle, and he takes action. He gets it. He is not a retread and has no need for cover. So far, he is the only person for me.

I work with a far-right Republican, and it’s interesting to talk to him and get his perspective on things. We were talking about 2008 one time, and I asked him which Dem candidate he is most afraid of. He said, without hesitation, “Feingold. He’s got integrity.” He positively salivates at the thought of Hillary 2008. When I asked him about Kerry 2008, he just laughed and laughed.

Oh, and ‘mornin’, TRex.

Not sure, but frankly, this article was totally meaningless and written to have Democrats eat their owns.
TrueProgressive

Then again, it could be viewed as an excellent lesson to future candidates and their staff, which may include this site’s viewers, how not to passively accept false attacks.

Good morning T-Rex!

Lotus the quote is
“If wishes were fishes we all would cast nets” And it’s from “Dune” It’s supposed to be a folk saying on Caladan (Atreides original planet before Arakis)

And it seems to have drifted into common usage.

Maybe it’s…”If wishes were fishes, then beggars would eat.”

D’oh! Of course, Anne — thank you!

Gah, I can be so dense sometimes.

How’s your Monday shaping up?

Dearest cleter,
I can’t thank you enough. You have made my day.

Then again, it could be viewed as an excellent lesson to future candidates and their staff, which may include this site’s viewers, how not to passively accept false attacks.

YOU!!

ARE!!

CORRECT!!

Johnny, tell him what he won!

It’s not “eating our own” to say that Kerry was a pretty lousy candidate. Are you saying Kerry was in fact an excellent candidate, and we all missed it? What, exactly, about the Kerry candidacy was excellent? So excellent that we should do it again?

Hmm, a wishin’-fishin’ dilemma arises . . .

Heh-lo, TRex! Which do you prefer?

I believe Feingold makes a great Senator but would not be my fav candidate or president. His rationale for approving many of Bush’s appointees and judges just messes with my sense of righteousness.

But he is a great voice for our side – mostly.

As for Kerry – I am with TRex – not going to forget or forgive his weakness in the face of the fight. And I blame Clinton and his ‘advice’ for calming it down. Clinton is after all now Bush seniors best ‘friend.’ Does not want us going all nasty on his best friend’s son. I will always listen to what he has to say, but lump Kerry and Clinton in the same ‘middle of the road’ — make no decisions – camp. useless at this time in America.

Pfifferling @
319

My rapidly aging brain has been known to get lost in the middle of a Kerry multiple-clause sentence, but he was so well-spoken when I saw him on Late Edition last week.

I couldn’t believe I was listening to the same person.

I’m really looking forward to some good debates amongst the Democrats.

I would have no problem voting for him again if he ends up with the nomination, but I agree, new faces, new blood! Fair criticism, yes, but no need to tear someone down.

Fahrender, hope you’re recovering nicely!

Waccamaw, the link works now. Thanks! I finished the muslin, not sure yet about the final fabric. But I like the muslin – cozy fleece!

thanks, Pfiff. i’m doing just fine.

about Kerry, one thing for sure, he was way beyond exhausted by the end of September, maybe even by the end of July. that does not ma for good decision making and good reactions. he’d never been in a national campaign and Fuckwad had, plus Fw had all of the perks and water carriers that John didn’t have. These things do make a difference. Add some 3rd World election antics in Ohio and it was over. Ohio. They used to say that Louisiana was the only banana republic in the U.S. Well, don’t look now but we’ve got one between Pennsylvania and Indiana, and it’s a four-letter word. And the Wolverines are going to whip some Buckeye butt come November.

Thanks from me too, cleter — great story . . . now to figure out how to scandalize your winger-colleague for the next eight years!

TRex @ 384

Then again, it could be viewed as an excellent lesson to future candidates and their staff, which may include this site’s viewers, how not to passively accept false attacks.

YOU!!

ARE!!

CORRECT!!

Johnny, tell him what he won!

A BRAND NEW CAR! A 1978 CHEVY MONZA 2 2!!

When I was a kid, if I was home from school sick, I would watch The Price is Right. The big prize always seemed to be a Chevy Monza.

Good morning, Grandma J! You have been in my prayers of late. Hope that you are bearing up.

I think Frank Herbert may own the rights on “if wishes were fishes”.

He who controls the spice, controls the universe.

badger @
380

Not sure, but frankly, this article was totally meaningless and written to have Democrats eat their owns.
TrueProgressive

Then again, it could be viewed as an excellent lesson to future candidates and their staff, which may include this site’s viewers, how not to passively accept false attacks.

Or rather to remember that, even if they answer, the media will not carry their answer.

But it was far from being my point here. Why is Trex leading on a one week old article just for the sake of bashing Kerry. It would seem to me that there are subjects that are much more important, if you want to bash democrats, starting by the idea that they will support the lousy McCain-Warner-Graham bill (yes better than Bush, but so far from acceptable).

meta @ 383

Dearest cleter,
I can’t thank you enough. You have made my day.

You’re welcome. The ticket he was most scared of was Feingold/Clark, IIRC.

Have not read all the comments, but I think John Kerry and Al Gore have finally found the niche where they are most helpful to the cause. Kerry has done a great job raising money, and Gore has really blossomed as a forceful and credible advocate for the environment. The window on their bids for the presidency has closed, for many reasons, not the least of which is that no matter how hard Kerry fights back, his entire candidacy will be 2004 redux, and Gore is never going to shake the “Gore the Bore” rep from 2000.

Both men could have a place in a Democratic administration as Cabinet secretaries, and do an able and admirable job, but the presidency is one level above where they are most competent. We’ve had enough of people who embody the Peter Principle – they are at all levels of the Bush administration, which explains why things are going so badly.

We have so many issues to deal with to waste even one minute of the next two years fighting and re-living old campaigns and old arguments. Our focus needs to be on the future, not the past, and these two men – as intelligent and well-meaning as they are – will have us mired in the past, and we all remember what happened there.

mOropeza @
330

GSD @
208

Hey, Chimpy asks for a permission slip from Pakistan:

“We are, Richard. Thank you. Thanks for asking the question. They were asking me about somebody’s report, well, special forces here — Pakistan — if he is in Pakistan, as this person thought he might be, who is asking the question — Pakistan is a sovereign nation. In order for us to send thousands of troops into a sovereign nation, we’ve got to be invited by the government of Pakistan.”

-George W. Bush

GSD Permission we give them military aid we bought our ticket into Pakistan besides when has GW EVER RESPECTED a sovereign nations borders? opps my bad they have a bomb no wonder GW is respectful and no wonder Iran wants one still we paid these guys what they won’t honor the bribe cancel the military shipments to their country at the very least GW you Moron

I have a bumper sticker: “W gives Nuclear ‘Head”

Bravo! Absolutely freakin bravo.

We need to skip right past both Gore and Kerry and find a fresh candidate. Gore makes a better former politician than he did a politician. He’s doing well right now. Keep it up, Al. Kerry, I agree with a lot of his views, but during the campaign he and his staff seemed to what to live up to the worst of the liberal stereotypes. Guess what? You can be a Democrat AND have a frickin backbone.

Any Dem running for high level office has to understand that his/her background will be scrutinized and distorted. There are also very few saints out there. Don’t pay stormtroopers to sanitize your background like Bush did (missing Air Guard files, anyone?). Just be ready for the fight.

katymine @ 19

I have been flamed pretty badly when I said that I would not spit on Kerry if his ass was on fire…after his loss in 2004…. Yes I have bad feelings…. really BAD feelings….

I come from a family of three generations of Vets… his behavior was dishonorable to all Vets… In 2004, like tons of others… I volunteered to canvas, phone bank, I was the medical person at the AZ post debate rally, I managed a phone bank center for a month, took my vacation to work the campaign, I worked fulltime days and worked the campaign evenings and nights. I didnt see my kids for days(they are college age) and pretty much ran myself into the ground. NOT BRAGGING just stating why I am still pissed…. Kerry could come to my house and appologise personally and I still would be pissed.

Thousands of us worked our asses off, devoted our time, money, blood, sweat and tears to get Kerry elected and he betrayed us…. he would NOT stand up for us when we needed him. NEVER Again….. NEVER…

Ok… start flaming me….. I do not care

Why would anyone flame you for saying what everyone said, once they got over the shock of the lost(sic) election. Kerry betrayed us he betrayed his running mate he betrayed the country. Fuck him and speaking of spineless co-opted triangulating DC insiders fuck Barack Obama.

Feingold/Clark could be RILL groovy.

mOro, have you heard anything from/about Tony Zinni to indicate that he might be as interested in politicking as Wes Clark? What’s he up to these days, do you know?

How fine a Sec’y of State would Al Gore be? Mmmm, yumola sez I!

lotus – how about Al Gore as Sec. of Energy and Jimmy Carter as Sec of State?

me likey! (hit and run – off to the showers now)

OC, when the next Dem gets to name a Cabinet, we’ve got a regular embarrassment of riches to look forward to!

OldCoastie @ 400

lotus – how about Al Gore as Sec. of Energy and Jimmy Carter as Sec of State?

me likey! (hit and run – off to the showers now)

OLD COASTIE!!

But as ET said last night, how few days are there until THIS upcoming election? FOCUS

What do we want people? What are the issues we want our leaders to handle? We need a poll. Whomever delivers/leads the charge on the issues WE WANT should get some serious credit for president. So far Feingold is talking and so is Murtha about what I want to hear. I wonder what you all want and who you think is fighting for your dreams. Best dreamer/best fighter, Kavisars blood! folks we need a warrior poet

No, please not Kerry!

Don’t worry, Nate. Not going to happen.

looseheadprop @
367

lotus @ 341

Wow, OS. From your Ellsberg link:

I keep looking at that date on the calendar – Oct. 5. I think of 1969—I was copying the Pentagon Papers with Tony Russo in that month, starting Oct. 1. My intention, however, at that time was to bring them out in connection with something called the Moratorium on Oct. 15, 1969… because on that day … across the country 2 million people marched. Not in any one place; they were counted up and added up because they all walked out, it was a weekday, out of school, out of businesses on that weekday. They met in rallies, heard many speakers—in those days there was great tolerance (well, there still is to some extent) for a lot of speeches. But it was a weekday and they called it the Moratorium because people thought the word “general strike” was too provocative, but that’s what they had in mind.

It was a walkout; in other words it was not business as usual. The president was watching it in the White House, hour by hour, while pretending that he wasn’t. In fact he was in the situation room getting half-hour reports on how many people. They were being counted, in Washington and New York, from a U2 [plane] above. […]

What a day to remember, Moratorium Day, 1969. Marching in Fayetteville, Arkansas, I was. Watching a fellow hippie climb and “occupy” a big old tree behind Old Main on the UofA campus.

Heady days.

We may need to do that again, before this is all done. Or maybe this time, it’s all to be “virtual” instead . . . ? A la Disney/ABC?

Mornin’ Pups,

I think the petalled one may be on to something. You know a moratorium on October 15th would only be 3 weeks before Election Day.

Actually, I would like to see it a little closer to Election Day so voters will still be energized.

Right after 9-11 there waas a day when everybody went out in front of their houses with a lit candle. I didn’t get home in time, but on my drive home (through the mansions of Old Brookville no less, folks has 1/4 mile hike down thier driveways to get to the road) Almost every driveway had a family standing in it holding candles and waving top the cars passing by an smiling. Some sang the national anthem or other similar songs.

I road with my windows open, calling out and waving back and thanking them. I felt such a sense of community. That is what :grass roots” means to me.

Folks keep saying why aren’t we taking to the streets. What about a general strike or Moratorium to protest torture and in opposition to deviation from gthe Geneva conventions?

If nothing else, it will show the rest of the world that the AMmerican People (as opposed to the AMerican Leaders) are not in favor of babarism.

I think we could do this. I think it involves less effort than the ABC thing or even the Lamont thing.
It’s 1) pick a day and time
2) put up some downloadable signs
3) blog the hell out of it
4)email everyone you know
5)walk out at the appointed time with sign and/or candle or whatever symbol

some of us discussed this back in the spring when latinos/hispanics were having those HUGE marches against that ridiculous immigration bill in the house. i’m definitely for it, Sure makes me think of “V for Vendetta” with the thousands of people marching around at the end of the film, all with V’s mask on. At the time my suggestion was to make up T-shirts that said “I AM NOT AFRAID” on the front and “PERSON OF INTEREST” on the back. That might not be the right slogan for now but something that really sums it up should be. DON’T LET BIN LADEN TELL YOU HOW TO VOTE has had a lot of support around here recently.

Mornin’ All,

coffee with T REX !

Security issue at the Capitol ? wha ? did moral courage and honesty somehow breach the checkpoints and are now running lose in the building ?

Lotus I don’t know what Zinn wants but lets see how he handles a firedoglake audience before we get our hopes up HOWEVER I will bet he would jump at the chance to bone up on Sun Tzu and discuss tactics.

lotus @ 362

Aphorism query:

I always heard “If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.” But my golf pal from Cincinnati says “If wishes were fishes … .” I think hers is cuter, but we don’t know how it ends. I made up, “… nobody would drown” just to finish it somehow.

Anybody here know how “If wishes were fishes” is officially supposed to end — or is sly ol’ Marilyn just having fun with me (again)?

Apparently it’s:

If wishes were fishes we’d all be throwing nets. If wishes were horses we’d all ride.

And it’s by a guy named Doug Horton. Kinda lame, huh? (I was surprised to find that it’s newer than the “if wishes were horses” nursery rhyme, considering that it doesn’t rhyme or scan.) I haven’t been able to find out anything about this guy other than that he’s the “author” of a lot of quotes and aphorisms (but no books, as far as I can tell — how does that work?)

Maybe Howard Dean needs to convene a blog-summit and brainstorm what the issues are or should be, and how to strategize for victory. As the architect of the 50-state strategy, and the man who put the internet on the political map, he should now look to the blogosphere – which has already shown its ability to influence and rally support – for input on a structured basis.

That summit should include the Rahm Emanuels and Chuck Schumers, so these DLC-types can hear for themselves what we think about their approach, and give people like Jane and Christy (who would be right up there in Dean’s invitation list!) the opportunity to hash out the finer points on a one-to-one basis.

And for those who would shudder in horror that this would give too much ammo to the right, who would ridicule Dean and the liberal blogs, it’s time to remember that this time we are doing this election thing from a position of “No Fear.” Work on that, will you please?

Run, Russ, run!

Feingold/Waxman is the ticket.

Restore integrity, clean up government.

new thread

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..our-voice/

GrandmaJ @ 387

I believe Feingold makes a great Senator but would not be my fav candidate or president. His rationale for approving many of Bush’s appointees and judges just messes with my sense of righteousness.

But he is a great voice for our side – mostly.

As for Kerry – I am with TRex – not going to forget or forgive his weakness in the face of the fight. And I blame Clinton and his ‘advice’ for calming it down. Clinton is after all now Bush seniors best ‘friend.’ Does not want us going all nasty on his best friend’s son. I will always listen to what he has to say, but lump Kerry and Clinton in the same ‘middle of the road’ — make no decisions – camp. useless at this time in America.

Grandma,

Feingold is certainly not perfect, but do you know of anybody, anybody who has taken the stands against the Bush evil that Russ Feingold has? even when very few other people would get behind him? How many times has a Senator walked out of a committee meeting calling it shameful? Feingold did that to Specter when Arlen was trying to pull one of his rancid deals. And that’s just one example.

Anne @410 we could all vote on what issues we want by computer from our houses we could have the voting up for a week so we could read up on the issues we would have to be careful of trolls and double voting but hey were not Diebold I’m sure we can figure out a fair vote.

(ooo-wee, glad I thought to copy this one when the server’s heekups started!) Tellya somebody else I’d like to see way up high in the State Dept — a certain pal of ours, initials JW . . .

Re t-shirt (or bumperstrip) slogan, how about:

OSAMA CAN’T TELL ME HOW TO VOTE!

And lhp, I meant to tell you earlier — thanks for that excellent story of your drive home: really an inspiration, that. Yes, let’s figure out how to do it nationally!

Morning gang — new, fresh thread now available. Sorry it was a bit longer in the writing than usual.

fahrender @ 372

Old Sow @ 315

Hey Fahrender……..Justin in defense of the Pope

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9709

now that was pretty amazing! i haven’t been to antiwar.com in months. justin’s writing style is really peculiar/pedantic or what i can’t quite pin down, but stupid he ain’t. and you wonder why this whole matter got treated the way it did (from both three sides). very interesting……

I read the Pope’s entire speech (here), and I have to say I don’t think much of Justin’s defense. I read it because I had been thinking “why doesn’t the Pope just say that he was quoting a 14th-century emperor, not stating the position of the modern Church”? And from the speech, the answer appears to be because he doesn’t believe that. Yes, it’s a theological speech about the Hellenistic influence on Christianity, but the major thrust is that by lacking or trying to offset that influence, Islam, Protestantism, and scientific rationalism arrive at views that are wrong. (The speech was particularly insulting the scientifically minded, btw, but that’s no surprise.)

I don’t think much of Justin’s subtitle, either. “The Catholic Church is an enemy of the War Party” may be in general true, but that doesn’t excuse this speech. The point of this wasn’t to be anti-war any more than it was to be anti-Islam, and an awful lot of the quotes “in defense” come from John Paul II, not Benedict.

Anne @ 394

Have not read all the comments, but I think John Kerry and Al Gore have finally found the niche where they are most helpful to the cause. Kerry has done a great job raising money, and Gore has really blossomed as a forceful and credible advocate for the environment. The window on their bids for the presidency has closed, for many reasons, not the least of which is that no matter how hard Kerry fights back, his entire candidacy will be 2004 redux, and Gore is never going to shake the “Gore the Bore” rep from 2000.

Both men could have a place in a Democratic administration as Cabinet secretaries, and do an able and admirable job, but the presidency is one level above where they are most competent. We’ve had enough of people who embody the Peter Principle – they are at all levels of the Bush administration, which explains why things are going so badly.

We have so many issues to deal with to waste even one minute of the next two years fighting and re-living old campaigns and old arguments. Our focus needs to be on the future, not the past, and these two men – as intelligent and well-meaning as they are – will have us mired in the past, and we all remember what happened there.

Anne @ 410

Maybe Howard Dean needs to convene a blog-summit and brainstorm what the issues are or should be, and how to strategize for victory. As the architect of the 50-state strategy, and the man who put the internet on the political map, he should now look to the blogosphere – which has already shown its ability to influence and rally support – for input on a structured basis.

That summit should include the Rahm Emanuels and Chuck Schumers, so these DLC-types can hear for themselves what we think about their approach, and give people like Jane and Christy (who would be right up there in Dean’s invitation list!) the opportunity to hash out the finer points on a one-to-one basis.

And for those who would shudder in horror that this would give too much ammo to the right, who would ridicule Dean and the liberal blogs, it’s time to remember that this time we are doing this election thing from a position of “No Fear.” Work on that, will you please?

Anne: I fully agree with you. The one caveat being that Rahm and Chuck should have to sit there and say nothing.

One other conceit, not original but, imagine Christy as Attorney General. just imagine………

Redshift, I’ll examine the entire actual speech. I also don’t think anything can excuse the speech in light of today’s or any day’s politics, it was just from such an unexpected source. My thanks to you….

One other conceit, not original but, imagine Christy as Attorney General. just imagine………

And lhp as Solicitor General (a stopover on her way to join Mary on SCOTUS)!

Old Sow:

When Justin writes: “That extremists of every stripe – including Western secularists, who hate the Catholic Church – are rejecting the Vatican’s explanations and condemning the pope’s remarks as ‘insensitive’ is hardly surprising” it sort of explains his sympathy for the Pope’s comments. This pope hates secularism more than anything, and Justin appears to assume that secularism means hating religion (note the comma), so naturally agrees with the Pope’s speech, which was both ill advised and wrongheaded. The former for obvious reasons, the latter because he is making the assertion that Catholicism jibes with rationality, but Islam doesn’t. A version of that statement that is true is: “some forms of Catholicism jibe with rationality, and some forms of Islam do as well” but as a commentator, he’s a bit of a homer.

Redshift @ 417

fahrender @ 372

Old Sow @ 315

Hey Fahrender……..Justin in defense of the Pope

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9709

now that was pretty amazing! i haven’t been to antiwar.com in months. justin’s writing style is really peculiar/pedantic or what i can’t quite pin down, but stupid he ain’t. and you wonder why this whole matter got treated the way it did (from both three sides). very interesting……

I read the Pope’s entire speech (here), and I have to say I don’t think much of Justin’s defense. I read it because I had been thinking “why doesn’t the Pope just say that he was quoting a 14th-century emperor, not stating the position of the modern Church”? And from the speech, the answer appears to be because he doesn’t believe that. Yes, it’s a theological speech about the Hellenistic influence on Christianity, but the major thrust is that by lacking or trying to offset that influence, Islam, Protestantism, and scientific rationalism arrive at views that are wrong. (The speech was particularly insulting the scientifically minded, btw, but that’s no surprise.)

I don’t think much of Justin’s subtitle, either. “The Catholic Church is an enemy of the War Party” may be in general true, but that doesn’t excuse this speech. The point of this wasn’t to be anti-war any more than it was to be anti-Islam, and an awful lot of the quotes “in defense” come from John Paul II, not Benedict.

Redshift:

I must admit that I haven’t read the original text of Benedict’s speech. What I was struck by in Justin’s column was how he pointed out that things had been taken out of context and how, in general, the efforts by the Vatican at peacemaking and criticisms of war in the ME have been ignored by the Bush Administration and the Israeli Government. Raimondo is first, last and always a polemicist and there is always an element of propaganda in what he writes. More often than not though it is propaganda that I agree with to some extent.

Cats in a friggin handbag.

This thread could easily be cross-posted at Free Republic, LGF or RedState. What the hell good is piling on 2 yrs after? “Oh, wah, he didn’t do this, and he didn’t do that, and I’m so tired of Teresa!” If the guy thinks he wants to kick ass, big fracking yahoo – let him go kick ass. This electorate could use some good hard kicks.

I’m surprised and disappointed with some of these comments. Keep your daggers and vitriol for the stupid fascists running your country into the ground! And for those who “won’t vote for so and so” for whatever reason – are you really, truly, honestly planning this far in advance to stay home on Election Day in 2008 if you don’t get your way? Cowboy the fuck up already.

I voted for Kerry in ‘04, and if he is somehow the Dem nominee in ‘08, I’ll vote for him again, for the sole reason that he is not a Republican. Same goes for Feingold, Clinton, Clark, Edwards, Skippy the Fricking Kangaroo. I make no claim that Kerry was perfect or somehow above reproach, but this thread sounds so much like all the claptrap hooey I read from the RedStaters, it’s eerie.

I hope you all have a very nice day.

-GFO

GSD said: Hey, Chimpy asks for a permission slip from Pakistan:

“We are, Richard. Thank you. Thanks for asking the question. They were asking me about somebody’s report, well, special forces here — Pakistan — if he is in Pakistan, as this person thought he might be, who is asking the question — Pakistan is a sovereign nation. In order for us to send thousands of troops into a sovereign nation, we’ve got to be invited by the government of Pakistan.”-George W. Bush
snip

Maybe Dear Leader thought New Orleans was a sovereign nation and after Katrina, he was waiting for an invitation.

lotus @ 301

Good morning, y’all!

ecb

Hot dawg, another Mississippian! All these months, I thought I was the onliest one here! Jackson, or where?

Jackson it is

fahrender @ 422

I must admit that I haven’t read the original text of Benedict’s speech. What I was struck by in Justin’s column was how he pointed out that things had been taken out of context and how, in general, the efforts by the Vatican at peacemaking and criticisms of war in the ME have been ignored by the Bush Administration and the Israeli Government. Raimondo is first, last and always a polemicist and there is always an element of propaganda in what he writes. More often than not though it is propaganda that I agree with to some extent.

I agree with that in general, and I applaud the Church’s opposition to war (though I’m waiting to see if Benedict is as strong on that as JPII.) However, while the quote was certainly taken out of context, if you’re going to use that as a defense, the context had better make it look less bad. In this case, I don’t think it does.

Facts are so deeply messy, aren’t they?

Try to stay with me here.

The Swiftboat guys tried at least three times to float their story to the media. It was not until August, after the convention, that the media bought it. And why did they do so then and not before?

Perhaps they had their marching orders at that point. But the campaign did not expect that the media would buy something they had rejected twice before. It definitely reeked. But they did fight back. The media did not respond, did they? Liberal bias? hah.

On Election Day, JK was in Boston; he did not flee to Boston. There was a stage being set up for a victory speech; I have a photo of it.

The concession happened the morning after the night before, which was a very long night, and a painful night, in which hard questions were asked, by lawyers and consultants and candidates alike.

Whatever their information at the time, the conclusion was to concede.

I know there are a lot of fantasies out there about arguments among the inner circles, and I am sure it was not an easy decision. After all, people had worked extremely hard for two years and they had thought their bases were covered.

Please understand this: this is a man, a good man, with a lot of experience in investigating fraud and criminal activity. I believe he did investigate and I have some evidence to back up that statement, although it would not be conclusive. It is, however, within his character.

I believe he investigated and found lots of horror stories, as we all have, but no larger patterns that would cry out for a federal investigation, and, most importantly, no big whistleblowers.

And I believe that because I know of several attempts (not by JK’s people) to bring forward any such whistleblowers that have failed.

You can all sit here and feel very clever, with your comments and vitriol but a little homework might lead you to different conclusions. I do suggest you try learning more before you continue to spread the exact message that the Republicans would like you to.

As for full disclosure, I was a moderator on John Kerry’s blog and my husband was the blogmaster. He was in Boston on election day.

I don’t get how personal attacks and lies can just drift by the person being attacked. You answer the attack(especially when they go after your family,*cough,McCain,cough*) with the truth and then use that opportunity to tell people wtf you stand for. How hard is that to grasp Senator Kerry? Geesh. Don’t give up your day job dude,seriously.Now,having said that…

I’ll support the Dem Presidential Nominee,even if I have to hold my nose to do it. The GOP has had 6 yrs to fix what they broke,we have more than enough evidence to prove they won’t even bother with cleaning up their own messes(or an even more novel concept,not making them in the first place). It’s either that or don’t get involved,vote or do anything else of substance. But,you can be damned sure that whoever ends up in the White House after 11/08 ,we’ll have to stay on their ass and watch ‘em like hawks,regardless of what party they’re in. DC and state and local politics is a MESS in this country,only The People can fix it,politicians have a vested interest in keeping the status quo. That’s part of why we’re in this mess now,The People went to sleep. No more of that,we can’t ever afford to do that again.

And now that I’m for sure totally EPU’d,lol,I’ll just chime in from over here by the punchbowl and say that as far as activism goes:

We Need it All. The beauty part of everything being FUBAR is that everything we can do to set things right again matters. If you’re burnt out by politics or just don’t like that game,join another one. Work for reclaiming your local food supply out of the hands of agribuisness,mentor a child or young person in your field of work, plant a garden big enough to give food to hungry people,teach people to grow their own food and medicinal plants, sponsor a child on an indian reservation, teach people about the environment and why it matters, whatever it is, if you throw your passion into it,it WILL help. You’d also be surprised what you can accomplish outside the system,doing your own thing solo or with help from others. There’s alot to be said for keeping under the radar,and it’s many times just as important as being in the spotlight,often more so. If you don’t feel you fit in anywhere,sometimes you have to create your own niche. I’ve found operating this way is more efficient anyway,small groups(or flying solo) work fine for me,after about 10 people or so,I lose patience.Mostly because it’s damned near inevitable that something will come up and cause group infighting.And then work HALTS or even takes a few steps back.Screw that,I want to DO something.

That’s my two cents,borne of 20 yrs at least of taking on the powers that be to effect change. Your milage may vary.

Political activism is important,but it ain’t the only game in town. I’d go out on my own little limb and say politics is maybe 25% of what’s wrong with the country,that leaves alot of room to be filled. The bonus is you can leave alot of the infighting behind that always ends up getting in the way of progressives/liberals/Democrats these days. Some of these things overlap into politics too,so you aren’t really totally taking yourself out of the loop by not working for a particular Party or candidate.

I would welcome another Kerry run. He may just decide not to do it, but if he does it will be less about him wanting to be President and more about what he wants to accomplish and how he wants to take our country forward. In other words, who has a vision and real ideas as opposed to who wants just the word president before their name. Senator Kerry has been proved correct, many, many times since the “04″ elections. He spoke the truth to us back then and I regret I was slow to realize how honest and upfront he was and is. His Presidential campaign has been dissected and commented on more that I can recall any other candidates in well over 20 years. Kerry made a few mistakes, but he learns from his mistakes and I don’t think any one of them is fatal. That is why the Republicans knock him every chance they get. Rove’s history is one of total destruction of a political advisory and he hasn’t been able to take out Kerry. Which brings me to this point- Kerry is a fighter. He has proved that consistently. And the fact that he is still here, relevant, outspoken and right seems to indicate some excellent qualities that would serve us all well if he were President. He would have my vote- absolutely.

It all comes down to Kerry mouting these famous words

Never happened. End of story.

We need someone who has run a state. Any of 5 or 6 governors would be fine. Senators for life can run only thier mouths. HRC is in the same boat as far as I am concerned.

Richardson?
Warner?
Dean?

Great discussion – Kerry pissed me off also but!

What the fuck have you done? By that I mean, every one here that we read and dialog with every day? Time is short! If you are discussing theory on election day you might as well not vote! I got a letter from Linda Stender the Democratic candidate for the 7th Congressional District in New Jersey. I live in South Carolina. She was thanking me for my contribution of $5.56 for fuck sakes! That was her share of my piddley $100.00 contribution to Act Blue. What else can I do? I can put my home made sign in the back of my pick up that says I am no longer afraid! I am a Democrat! Have you had enough? I can write a letter every evening to an editor saying that the most important problem in America is this fucking war. I can tie it to every problem in any election from school board to the Senate. It’s not my war it’s Bush and his drooling rubber- stamp republican’s war. They have been in charge for 6 years and want us to stay the course? I think not! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different out come. Time for a change and we have a plan. Listen to Murtha, Listen to Biden, etc.
And I write to Obama, Biden, Kennedy, Murtha, and yes Kerry, and tell them to quit discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and talk about BUSH’S FUCKING WAR. AMERICA HATES THIS WAR We are good at analysis and theory. Rove loves it and plays us like a fiddle! It’s the economy stupid! Oh excuse me that was the last time we won! IT’S THE FUCKING WAR! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ABOUT IT? CALL YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSMAN. WRITE LETTERS. DONATE TO ACT BLUE. VOLUNTEER ON MOVE ON’S TELEPHONE BANK. DO SOMETHING AND DEMAND THAT OUR NATIONAL LEADERS STAND TOGETHER ON THE STEPS OF THE CAPITAL AND SAY IN UNISON THIS IS NOT OUR FUCKING WAR AND WE HAVE A BETTER WAY AND IT IS THIS—-Oh excuse me that’s already been done in the Contract on America Thing. IT’S THE WAR! TIME IS SHORT! PUT YOU BOOTS ON THE GROUND!

RE: Karen @ 427 -

You can all sit here and feel very clever, with your comments and vitriol but a little homework might lead you to different conclusions. I do suggest you try learning more before you continue to spread the exact message that the Republicans would like you to.

HEAR HEAR

Thank you. It’s a little early for toasting, but after this thread I could go for a cold one.
Cheers!

-GFO

My 12 year old daughter got over a loss better then the people here.

You can trash all you want and by the way it helped none of you during the primaries, Democrats speak truth not garbage, which is mostly what I see here. I thought I was on a right wing site when glancing at these posts. How childish.

I hope you all gave your candidates the same trashing as they loss in the primaries, or are you all just hypocrites.

When and if Kerry decides to run it is his right, this is still a democracy I think, but not by the perceptions I see here.

I like before will go with my gut and heart and mostly my principles, and if Kerry chooses he will be my choice.

I like all the others mentioned on here BUT I would never degrade them, all for just a way to make me feel better about a loss or to get my way.

Harp all you want about the MSM, because by the postings here I can see you are imbedded with them.

Trex hope you enjoy ‘08. “Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me.”

GET OVER IT