
(Arianna Huffington will be joining us in the comments today to discuss her book, On Becoming Fearless. Week One of the discussion can be found here . As always with the Book Salon, please restrict your comments to the topic at hand and if you’d like to discuss.)
I’ve mentioned before that Arianna Huffington is one of my biggest role models not only for her vision but for the grace and the courage with which she handles the challenges of being a woman in public life. In her new book, she takes us back to a defining moment where that admiration crystalized:
In 2003, I ran for governor of California, part of a large field of candidates that included then Lieutenant governor Cruz Bustamante and the ultimate victor, Arnold Schwarzenegger. As exhilarating as the experience was, it also had its bruising moments. None ore so than the big televised debate Arnold dubbed "the Super Bowl of debates" (perhaps because it was the only one he took part in).
Throughout the debate, whenever I was making a point — indeed, whenever I opened my mouth — Bustamante, in his deep baritone, kept repeating, "Yes, Arianna. Yes, Arianna." Occasionally he would throw in an eye roll. It was a condescending refrain, weary and bored, as if he could barely summon the energy to tolerate a typical nagging woman. It was the equivalent of "Take two Midol and you’ll feel better in the morning, honey."
It’s an exceptionally difficult situation under which to keep your composure, as anyone who has had that experience can attest (and few have had them in such a public, high-pressure way — I certainly haven’t). Especially when the pile-on begins:
Schwarzenegger expressed his displeasure at having to debate a full-throttle female by suggesting that I drink more decaf — a comment that is hard to imagine being addressed to a man.
A lesser woman would have retreated into silence and bitterness, but Arianna retained her poise and took it as a learning experience. She also very effectively drew the positive out of it:
In fact, that debate made me realize how deeply ingrained our culture’s fear of assertive women is and how much of this fear women have unconsciously internalized. After the debate, I came off stage and was immediately surrounded by dozens of young female students who thanked me for taking a stand and not backing down. I was moved by gratitude — by also stunned by it. I certainly didn’t think I deserved any special thanks simply for speaking my mind. Nor did I think hat young women in 2003 would still be hungering for role models to help them gain the courage to find their own voice.
The support for women of other women in these situations is critical — it’s also why the right wing sends women to dicipline outspoken women back into place (and why we stand up so stridently to exact a price from the harpies like Kate O’Beirne when they attack women like Hillary Clinton, Gloria Steinham and others for being strong and outspoken). If you can’t find support from other women, where is it going to come from? Certainly not from Ahnold.
As Arianna says:
Let’s face it: Our culture still isn’t comfortable with powerful, visible, outspoken women. We equate power with maleness, manliness, dominance — even ruthlessness — all of which happen to be traits that women fear being identified with because we know we will be called "pushy," "shrill," and "strident." The epithets strike right at our femininity — as if the very notions of power and womanliness are mutually exclusive. No wonder women are often afraid to stand up, take the lead, speak out. The result? A very uneasy relationship between women, power, and the traits necessary to be a leader.
She’s right, of course. The conscious and unconscious sexism involved in these attacks against outspoken women, especially when they come from other women, are always stinging and you’ve just got to get used to sucking it up and know they are going to come no matter what you do. Which is why the support of a community (and other women) becomes so important, a place to look to in order to draw strength when the hostile, bitter personal carping becomes too much. I do not know many strong women who could keep at it, no matter how much their love of battle might be, without such a wellspring to draw upon. It’s one of the best things about the liberal blogosphere when it’s en form — the willingness and ability to provide support for people when they have the courage to express truths which will otherwise most assuredly draw down nothing but fire from the powers that be.
Because when one person has the courage to speak out, it inspires others. It’s one of tne of the things Arianna points out:
It’s been very important for me to learn to recognize when, especially at work, I am affected by other people’s fears. Because fear is not only common in competitive workplaces, it’s also contagious. In a study of diversity, conflict, and performance in the workplace, Brian Kulik of Washington Stage University found that "expressions of fear lead to fearful affect in groups; conversely, expressions of fearlessness may lead to fearlessness among individuals in groups." So the good news is that confidence is also contagious, and people who express fearlessness engender confidence in others.
Arianna’s confidence, her courage and her willingness to overcome her fears is contagious — has been for me anyway. Please welcome her to FDL and thank her for the work she continues to do to promote the progressive agenda and the role of blogs in the political conversation. I’ll offer my own thanks for her wisdom, poise and grace and for being both an undying supporter but a constant source of inspiration. She’s a gem.
Related posts:
- Arianna Huffington, Jesse Dylan, Marshall Ganz and Others to Judge POP Art Contest
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Adam Gopnik – Angels and Ages: A Short Book About Darwin, Lincoln, and Modern Life
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Ryan Grim: This Is Your Country On Drugs
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Frank Schaeffer: Crazy For God
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Dahr Jamail, The Will to Resist: Soldiers Who Refuse to Fight in Iraq and Afghanistan





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Just look at the way she’s sticking ‘em out in that photo! Goddam hussy!!!
EDITED BY SITE OWNER — DAVE I’M SURE YOU’RE MAKING SNARKY REFERENCE TO THE JESSICA VALENTE FLAP BUT LET’S MAKE SURE EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT, FIRST COMMENT AND ALL.
Yassas, kalispera, He’ro poli’ Arianna
katymine @ 1
Kalispera pos elena? cherome poli
Welcome, Arianna. Thank you so much for writing this wonderful book but, more so, for the example of courage you set every day for the rest of us. Much appreciated.
It was lovely to finally get to meet you at YKos. Jane has so many wonderful things to say about you and, after reading the book, I can see why.
Arianna, after living in Crete 25 years ago, you have tapped out my social skills except ordering food and water. Just wanted to give you a great welcome from the FDL pups.
Oh, and dave, let’s try to keep the Althouse impressions to a minimum, shall we?
Ariana, I look forward to reading your book, and I like how your website has evolved over the last year. When you are on television you are an excellent spokeperson for us. That’s all. Have a pleasant day.
I would like to discuss the split of how behavior is handled.
If a woman is strong and outspoken then she is a shrew but if a man does that then he is considered “normal”. How do we change this in our American society?
Thanks so much for stopping by, Arianna. I hope everyone — especially women — get ahold of the book and find it as inspirational as I did. There were times when I wanted to cry because sometimes you get to feeling like you are the only one, even when you know that’s not true, and the wisdom with which you face these challenges is something that personally gives me a lot of strength.
What do you mean by fearless, Arianna?
Hi, Arianna! Welcome.
I was wondering if you would be willing to talk a little about your spiritual beliefs. As a person and as a writer I have struggled all my life with second-guessing myself and tormenting myself with regret over things I have and haven’t said and done. I have been doing a lot of work over the last year trying to learn to turn that stuff over to God. It has helped a tremendous amount.
I wouldn’t say that I’m entirely fearless, but now, even when I’m scared, I make myself do what I have to do anyway. And that had made me realize that the Talibangelical churches of our country are using their notion of God in the complete opposite way that I think God would intend. Rather than letting their spirituality fill them with courage, they use it to fill themselves with fear.
So, do you believe in God?
Oh, and just to slip into the superficial for a moment, you look flat-out fantastic in the cover photo for the book.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 3
Hi Chisty! Thanks for your support and for joining the fearless tribe. That’s what it’s going to take — building this community of fearless women who can support, inspire and encourage each other. I couldn’t agree more with Jane that the support for women of other women is critical.
Hi Arriana,
I am a fan of your work — an avid reader of the HuffPost and first of all, thank you for joining the FDL community today.
I wonder, continously, why our opposition party Democrats do not confront Bush head on, especially on the most important issue facing us (in my opinion) — Bush’s complete disregard for the rule of law and the separation of powers.
I am going to presume that you have some personal relationships and the opportunity to meet mainstream Democratic politicians face to face.
If so, how do you urge them to lose their fear when confronting our amazingly unpopular, and miserably failing President? Do you ask them in person? What is their response?
Thanks for your insight.
(I feel it’s critical that we inject some spine into the Dems — I just don’t think we have enough time to replace all the capitulators with fighting Dems!)
P.S. I used to comment here as Mike G, but since there are some many Mikes, I’ve changed my handle.
keep kicking their butts, arianna. i saw a clip yesterday of you on o’really show, and i don’t know how you stayed calm and centered, but you did. it is so discouraging that the msm is so weighted against progressive ideas. what i don’t get is why more people aren’t saying ‘where did my country go?’
katymine @ 8
______
My wife — Director of Quality for Shaw Environmental & Infrastructure (~6,500 employees, mostly male engineers, scientists, construction types, etc) — has a cartoon in her office that says “51% Lady, 49% Bitch; Don’t Push It.”
She is unfazed by any sexist BS.
_
Jane Hamsher @ 8
Thank you Jane. You have certainly done your part to speak the truth, be an example to others and put yourself on the front line.
Hello Arianna,
It seems these days that there is a lot more emphasis on fear, not just for women but for everybody. I mean, the whole ‘terra’ thing and the Great War thereon. It seems to me that fear is not just a ‘women’s issue’. But is it different for women, do you think, or being used differently?
Hello Arianna and welcome to the community. I am thoroughly enjoying On Becoming Fearless.
My original handle at FDL was menopausal mommybrain. I am 53 and have a high-energy 7 year old boy. The sleep deprivation from changing sleep patterns combined with the new- mom light sleeper thingy has made me a little nuts, I think. You remind me that adequate sleep is an important component of the fearlessness equation. Thanks.
I’m doing what I can at a local level to get Phil Angelides elected in California. He’s smart as a whip and I think he is a real-deal progressive. I believe he would be a great governor. Do you support him?
I would like to give an heartfelt thank you to Arianna from Italy: when I discovered blogs and internet as an alternative source of information “Huffington Post” was, luckily enough, one of my starting points…
From there I got to several great sites (Firedoglake being my favorite).
So Kudos to Arianna ! Grazie Mille !!
Folk here are pleased but puzzled at your evolution into your more progressive politics nowadays. Were you raised in Greece in a conservative (monarchist?) family? Did you outgrow that early outlook?
Arianna – Your book is fantastic. It should be in every stocking this Christmas if you ask me, especially as a gift from mothers to daughters. I’ve done some serious in the trenches research on women, relationships and sexuality, so I found your book to be not only enjoyable, but important. For anyone who spends time meditating in the morning, Arianna’s book should be part of it. A few pages in the morning will steel your spine for the day. Well done.
katymine @ 7
Katymine — one confrontation at a time. It’s overwhelming to think about making such radical change. Every time each one of us stands up for herself, honoring her voice — as loud as it may be– it affects the collective. If my mother was concerned about changing the whole culture of Greek women, I would still be in Greece. But she spoke up to my Dad and other men, even in the midst of tremendous disapproval. Other women saw it and followed suit.
Thank you for being fearless.
I am certainly wowed by you being here on the lake.
I read huffpo regularly.
I dont have a catchy thought or question, just taking it day by day. Thanks again for proving that a woman can be strong and intelligent.
Arianna @ 23 ~
I agree that it will be along the old phrase – How do you eat an elephant? One teaspoon at a time!
Thankfully, I have raised two very independent young adult daughters and two son’s who expect women to behave that way!
At Taylors suggestion, I will purchase the book for my girls to read.
Welcome, Arianna. I join the chorus of those who watched you in that debate and who came away inspired by your intelligence and adherence to your principles. A shining moment. And congratulations on HuffPo!
We are surrounded by male ruthlessness in public life. I often go into oppositional consciousness mode, but that is ineffective. How does one confront ruthlessness when men have also owned the antidote?
I’m kind of flabbergasted that there is even a need to have this conversation – are the men in this country so insecure that they can’t see a strong, competent woman without feeling threatened or intimidated? My workplace has as many female managers as male, if not more, including my boss and my boss’s boss, and it doesn’t faze me at all.
I find powerful, intelligent women far more interesting than fluff-brained giggly eye-candy, and anyone who doesn’t is really missing out.
Understand, I’m not saying we *shouldn’t* be having this conversation, just that it’s a shame America is still so… unevolved.
Taylor Marsh @
22
Absolutely, Taylor. It’s a great stocking stuffer for everyone who wants to inspire women, and particularly young girls, to find their voice.
I was moved by the fact that Arianna wanted to write it after watching her daughters, and all the self-doubt that came to posess them in their teenage years. What an amazing gift.
A very warm welcome to you, Arianna!
The worst boss that I ever had was a woman who embodied every catty, vindictive and spiteful stereotype you could imagine in one nasty, take out her mistakes on others package. But what I learned from the experience was that my one voice, speaking up when it was needed, could make all of the difference. And dealing with this person helped to strengthen my own inner core — it taught me that adversity can lead to a greater strength if you open yourself to the potential that you already have. And I learned what I did NOT want to do — or be — which was just as valuable.
Women absolutely need to be supportive of each other, but we also need to be much better about supporting ourselves. That’s a lesson that I am constantly having to remind myself of — mommybrain is right, the lesson of getting enough sleep is a very, very valuable one. (One at which I often fail with a 3 year old in the house. But I’m working on it…)
Actually, I guess I *do* have an actual question: Is this kind of fear of strong women a global phenomenon? I know there are a lot of countries with a strong thread of sexism, but it certainly looks like a lot of the European countries consider powerful women to be a complete non-issue, and female heads of state seem to be fairly commonplace (even if our own head of state seems a bit… unclear on the concept).
Arianna,
I want to thank you on two counts.
First, for speaking your mind with humor, intellect and passion. That is rare enough, and as you point out, more difficult for women.
Second, for linking me to FDL. When I was flat fed up with conventional media, you mentioned Huffington Post on a talk show.
I loved the site, and could not get enough! Intrigued by the name of the link “FireDogLake”, I clicked onto it. And then, we clicked!
Many thanks!
Arianna…
I was living in California at the time of your campaign. And supported you. Vigorously. Still do!
The question I have is this: do you anticipate another run for office. If so, what office? If not; why not.
Eli — I can’t speak for every woman, but it took me a long, long time to find Mr. ReddHedd — who not only supports my independence and stubborn streak, but looked for that in the woman he wanted to marry because he wanted a partner, not a “mate.” I am very, very lucky, but in my criminal prosecution experience, not every woman is so lucky — and I say that not just about the people I prosecuted, but also about some of the men I had to deal with in and around the courthouse. (Although, I have to say, I’m not really one to sit still for a lot of sexist BS, as you might imagine. *G*)
Arianna,
If you could “recall” any three elected (or unelected) politicians in government today, who would they be?
this is most pleasantly cool: chatting with Arianna while watching Barack work the ropeline in Iowa. Charmant!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 34
I’m always amazed that the men aren’t beating down your doors.
[Napoleon Dynamite]
IDIOTS!
[/Napoleon Dynamite]
Taylor Marsh @
22
Taylor, this endorsement sealed the deal for me. I’ll pick up the book tomorrow.
HotFlash @ 17
Men have been much better at camouflaging their fear and pretending it is not there. Fear is often masked by agression and denial. Need I say more than take a look at the characters in our own Administration
TheGris @ 13
Thanks for you question. I can’t help myself but ask people to think about how they can be more effective — especially when it comes to issues that don’t seem to get addressed. The blog has been a very powerful tool to do this. Here’s an example – a staffer on the hill told me that last week all the Democrats in the Senate were wondering if anyone was paying attention to the Bolton confirmation vote. So I wrote a few posts about this – as did other bloggers – and now people are paying attention — it’s no longer under the radar. A few very outspoken senators let it be known that they were going to filibuster the nomination. And then Richard Lugar postponed the scheduled vote. So that’s one way I speak up. I let them know that it’s important to show a little spine!
Mommybrain @ 18
Sleep, sleep, sleep — even cat naps! And yes, I support Phil whole-heartedly and have spoken on his behalf many times.
I come from a family of six boys. My mother has been an inspriration, first of all managing us and dealing with my dad. She decided she needed less dependence on my dad so started college when I was in high school and got a teaching credential. It changed her relationship with him. They are still together. I think through her I am most comfortable with strong women. Most of my friends are women who ahve very well in their careers and generally don’t put up with much BS. I almost bought Becoming Fearless yesterday, now I will have to!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 34
Mr. Reddhead *does* rock. (He’s hot stuff too, and I mean that in the most platonic of ways. Really.)
adding to Eli @31: Is this kind of fear of strong women a global phenomenon?
Are there countries who are ahead of us, who have found a solution? How did they get there?
Jane @ 28Jane Hamsher @ 28
Teenage years can be a bitch, especially today. This one page is worth quoting.
As someone who did the beauty pageant cha-cha-cha, today’s young women have more pressure than ever. Again, Arianna’s book will help them understand why their fears arise to choke off their courage, often when they least expect it and at the most important moments of their lives.
katymine @ 24
You are reminding me of another quote I love, “Well behaved women never make history!”
Christy: Conversely, the best boss I ever had was a woman who was quiet, competent, spiritual and generous with her knowledge.
She ruled a department of thirteen salesmen, each with salesman personalities and all older than she with a red velvet cake in one hand and some kind of invisible whip that made everyone better at their jobs in the other. She made more than the VP and never wanted a promotion. When she got pregnant and wanted to stay home, they begged her to bring the baby with her every day and work fewer hours for more pay. She did. She wrote novels in her spare time. She’s one of my key role models.
comment #1 could be construed as inappropriate, and perhaps it is, but this is what dave is referring to:
http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/…..-your.html
seems that women can also be sexist towards women.
dave @
1
Sorry – forgot the “snark” tag…
Arianna…
In light of your experience in the 2003 California elction, what do you think of a Hillary Clinton presidential run? Do you think she would encounter much the same kind of sexist attitude? Would she be taken less seriously, or scrutinized more, than other Democratic candidates?
cleter @ 49
Which would be a bigger issue: That she’s female, or that her name is Clinton?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 29
Just to quote my mother, “Take care of your capital first.” To her, capital was the self. She told us over and over again when we would over-extend and try to take of everything and everybody. And expecially to me, an ardent multi-tasker.
Arianna, thank you so much for the answer. And, I have to say, I think your strategy is right on.
Asking people to do some self-reflection, exposing the issues on your blog, and urging folks to show some spine: this is a 3-part recipe I wholeheartedly endorse.
Thank you again, for all the work you do.
Eli @ 27
It is a shame. Born and raised in the South, I was fortunate have a strong grandmother who really ran things in the family. Her daughters were lovely and strong and independent, serving as WAC’s in WWII. Her sons respected such women.
As a result, I expect strength and intellect in a woman, and have been married to one such formidable for 22 years.
All the more reason to visit the growing list of blogs (I’ve recently added Taylor’s site as a result of an FDL link) – smart as a whip women, speaking up from perspectives that would never occur to me.
Easy on the eyes is an added bonus!
Welcome, Arianna! It’s great to have you with us. Sorry I’m late. . . family stuff.
Eli @ 30
Eli was my mother’s name by the way. In my country it was mixed. Some women like Melina Merkouri, the actress who became minister of culture and used all her gifts – feisty femininity and all – was one of the fearless women and very much admired and listed to. All this, while others were still stuck under the thumb of the patriarchy.
Eli @ 50
Yes. That is a much more concise formulation of my question. I was wondering if she would encounter the same kind of ugly as Arianna, or some sort of new ugly as The She-Clinton.
A woman I know was being considered for a dean’s position at a seminary, and in the interview/meeting with the faculty as a part of the search process, one of the more conservative and older patriarchs on the faculty looked down his nose at her and asked “with little seminary teaching experience yourself, what in your background do you think prepares you to handle a faculty of high-powered individuals like the folks in this room, presiding over faculty meetings, getting them to do their committee work, and so forth?” Her answer was given with a smile and great confidence: “I can handle that – I am the mother of a five year old!” The younger faculty roared with laughter, and the older faculty either nodded in support or turned beet red in the face.
She got the position, and did a great job.
There is one thing I would like to speak out about…the example of a woman bringing their kid to work is ***wrong.*** She may have been great at her job, but the idea that it’s purely OK to bring kids to work on a regular basis is just wrong. For every example like the one cited, the work world is littered with people who took advantage of such sentiment, to the detriment of their co-workers.
The workplace is tense enough without having to deal with the sound of crying infants or screaming toddlers. I go to work to work, not be part of a day care center.
Sorry, the whole notion of “have it all,” is a myth and I will speak out against it.
“are the men in this country so insecure that they can’t see a strong, competent woman without feeling threatened or intimidated?”
Men obviously aren’t a monolithic group. There are plenty of knuckle-draggers and plenty of good ones.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 32
I know that my voice is more effective through my blog, my books and my speaking engagements. Without running for office – or affiliating myself with a particular party, I am free to voice my without any restrictions imposed by a party. So don’t expect to see my name on the ballot any time soon.
I can’t possibly pull out all the juicy parts of the book I love, LindaR and Katymine, but here’s another one for you. It’s similar to someone I so admire, Dr. Wayne Dyer, whom many of you likely know.
In a time where fear sells, Arianna’s book is a tonic, especially for women longing to follow their bliss, which is the true path to manifesting your dreams. It can lead to an incomparable life beyond your imagination, but in order to experience it you must have the courage to become fearless.
Taylor Marsh @
44
I also liked the corrolary to that from Arianna’s book:
Telling, no?
Rat @ 59
Very true. But there are more knuckle-draggers than there should be by now. Anyone who feels threatened or diminished by the existence of strong women is a wee tiny of a man, to borrow a friend’s turn of phrase.
I’d like to think that there are more enlightened ones on our side of the political divide, but I don’t think that’s a given. Sure doesn’t sound like Cruz Bustamante is one of them.
Arianna, any comments on the relative prevalence of condescension and outright sexism on the liberal and conservative sides of the fence? Is it what we would expect, or no?
dave @ 48
No problem, just wanted to make sure it was clear to Arianna. Despite the fact that she is most comely in her book photo.
Hi Arianna and thank you for Huffington Post, your great voice and passion and for being here. I have not yet read your book, but have every intention of doing so and passing it round to both the women and the men in my life.
On the issue of speaking and behaving assertively, I am bemused and sometimes confounded by the accusation that I am “too emotional about x, y, or z” or I “care too much about, for instance, “war, hunger, politics” when involved in a discussion. These are all traits that people (men) usually admire me for initially, but when the relationships (both social and professional) evolve, these same traits are somehow belittled and the adverb changes from “so” to “too” as in ‘you are so passionate’ -> ‘you are too passionate’. Are you familiar with this phenomenon or is it just me? I find it somehow demeaning– it’s almost as if they tire of my expression of knowledge, etc. Funnily enough, it has not yet happened with women.
Arianna,
I’ve always thought that “where intellect is lacking, instinct prevails” is the primary rationale for the “me growl, you back off” approach to life.
That said, I’m a firm believer in folks (men and women!) whose strength of character is based upon their intellect, their wisdom, their no-BS approach to life.
Being “strong” is not about how loud one “growls” (did ya hear that Junya?), but upon content of their message.
Or simply put, it’s not how you say it, but what you say.
Arianna, what say you? Though I think I already know. *g*
Taylor Marsh @ 44
Arianna & Taylor,
Did you catch Diane Sawyer’s ‘Cruel Intentions’ this week?
It showed the catty and cruel ways girls lash out and compete with each other, and the verbal evisceration revolved around appearances.
It is truly sad that our kids are getting the message that looks, rather than integrity and dignity, will get you thru life.
angie @ 65
I’m wondering if there’s an irony at work here. Are expressions of intellect often dismissed as expressions of emotion?
My Greek landlady was the mother of three sons under the age of 12, she would whine to me about having to do way too much housework and cooking. She would say that I was lucky because I could feed my family sandwiches and that would be ok…
My response was why? She had three able kids who could help her around the house. The shock and horror on her face was quite funny. But then I pointed out how the neighborhood American kids did chores and helped their mothers…. In my own way I changed that family dynamics before I returned to America. My landlady kids were taking out the garbage, hanging laundry and running to the store for their Mom… My Landlord was really gad to see me go because he felt it was over the line to have to teach his wife to drive.
I was so bad….. she would whine and I would say… “Why can’t you do that?” … I am sure it was wearing the shorts to market that cooked it too!
The line in “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” where the mother says the father is the head but the mother is the neck is very true. Just have to know how to do that neck thing without them knowing!
Jane Hamsher @ 62
Telling, indeed.
On a tangential note, all the real beauty campaigns to get women portrayed more accurately — yes, we have hips, honey — are proving important in get out the vote strategies targeting women. Studies show that women pay attention to voting material when the women on the pamphlets don’t look like models. We needed a study to learn this one?
cleter @ 55
Hillary is the poster child for a politician giving in to their fear of somebody not liking them. Looking at Hilary, she’s clearly fightened of losing. And that disconnects her from her authenticity. You can smell the fear on her. I’ve said a lot about Hillary on the blog…
fwiw, there’s no functioning Womens Caucus in Congress anymore. The Phyllis Schafflys and other apostles of division fractured that group politically … a Maxine Waters and a Jean Schmidt have little in common.
Guitar Playing Bastard @ 57
I think you can have it all — you just can’t have it at the same time.
Eli @ 68,
It is a telling kind of remark.
At least I think so. Seems that some men think women’s expressions about topical subjects are emotional. They’re women, so it only follows that they can’t be coming to those realizations logically!
Taylor Marsh @ 69
No, we didn’t need a study to tell us this! But we do need to figure out how to get the 22 million single women who DID NOT vote in the last election to the polls this November and after.
And regarding the hips, there is a poem by Lucille Clifton called An Homage to My Hips (you would love it!) which is featured in my sister’s book, Conversations with the Goddesses, under the chapter of Aphrodite. Greek Goddesses loved and honored their bodies – hips and all. Maybe we should put a few of them on the voting literature!
Untragically hipped?
Hi Arianna,
The book truly is a great read. Very well done, indeed.
Thanks for sending it to me.
Ah, so many of the valkyrie here I so admire. The fearless tribe as well as the other tribes need you all now more than ever.
The greatest strength is shared. Fight on. Forge on. Thanks.
My point of my last comment is as a young woman in my mid 20’s with a young infant, seeing another culture first hand coming from a family with both parents were educated, served in the military during WWII and civicly active was an eye opening experience.
That experience also required me to become more independent. I was in a foreign country without the normal support systems for a young mother. My line to my girls… You have to learn to take care of yourself because NO ONE is going to do it for you. “Make sure you are in a position to support yourself, care for yourself and your children because you never know when life’s experience will put you in that position”.
My favorite quote:
“There is also a price to pay for timidly – and a lot less upside.”
That speaks volumes to me.
The Heretik @
78
Well said!
opps, I meant “living timidly”, sorry
katymine @ 78
Ditto. But also allow for the unexpected generosity of life and people who come your way. Never underestimate the human spirit.
Arianna @ 75
You’re right, I would love it.
I think we should have some of these quotes on the front of every GET OUT THE WOMEN’S VOTE pamphlets!
SteveAudio @ 80
I would kinda like to tattoo it on the inside of all the Democrats’ eyelids in glow-in-the-dark ink…
One more little question for you. When growing up I was tall, clumsy, “different” looking from the all- American girl and smart. I would ask my Mom why nobody would ask me out and she would say that it was because I was too pretty/ smart/serious and that my time would come.
She was right about me getting asked out, but it was not until I was in college with lots of “different” people, and even then I did not have to get a little black book *g*. Why is being different and smart such a turn off and so intimidating to some people at every stage of life?
Taylor Marsh @ 83
Here’s one of the lines from the poem that I love –
These hips are mighty hips! They go where they want to go, they do what they want to do, they have never been enslaved. They don’t fit into petty little places, they need space to move around in. These hips are free hips…!
Arianna, welcoma and thank you so much for all your contributions to our culture, most especially HufPo.
The culture of your original home endlessly fascinates me too. My one treasured visit to Greece occurred 30-odd years ago, during the rule of the colonels. (When a local boy and I hit it off in Pylos, imagine my surprise when he asked me to carry something light — just a book, I think it was — for him as we strolled one day, “because I’m tired.” He carried his own damn book, charmer though he otherwise was. Heh.)
You were probably a schoolgirl then. How, if at all, do you think the political circumstances of Greece in those years helped shape the woman you have become?
[OT/spelling patrol: “Steinem”]
OT/spelling patrol: welcome (forehead slap)
Thank you all for joining the fearless conversation. Keep the fire going.
See you in the fearless camp — and don’t forget to bring your friends.
Jiasou (goodbye in Greek)
Arianna
lotus @ 89
*psst*
You can edit those! No-one will ever know!
I’ll buy that for a dollar.
But the example cited, someone bringing their child to work every day is not only wrong from a workplace point of view, it’s an issue of inequality insofar as men, in general (certainly in my experience) do not bring their children to work on a daily basis. Women should not, either.
Like it or not, having children is one of those things in life that requires sacrifice on the part of the people who have them. I’ll be the first to say women in America are usually expected to sacrifice more than men when it comes to the consequences of having children, and that should not be so.
But the idea that women who have children should be able to bring their children to work, every day, is just silly. If you have children, you should be able and willing to make the sacrifices necessary to properly raise them, regardless of your gender, and it is wrong to expect your co-workers to make sacrifices for your choice to bear children.
That’s where the line is for me.
Arianna,
Let me start by thanking you for being a voice of reason in the midst of insanity. I read your blog every day, multiple times and am a huge fan.
Coming from a man, I must say that I wish our government could shed some testosterone at all levels. Your grace, intelligence and tenacity are a beacon for all of us regardless of gender. Please stay strong and know that you inspire this guy every day…..
I remember this well Arianna and I remember thinking at the time how shameful it was. I couldn’t tell if he was doing it because you threatened him as the most legitimate liberal/progressive on the stage or perhaps because with his Latino heritage he was raised in an environment where assertive women were frowned upon or just because he was a condescending and arrogant ass by nature.
I remember that debate being a turning point for me though. It officially eliminated him as a candidate or a leader in my mind but it also caused me great consternation since I’m a pragmatist and I’m good at electoral math and I saw him as being the only person with enough support and votes to give the steroid king a serious challenge at the voting booth.
Maybe I’m just one of those rarities who love strong and outspoken women because I grew up with a Mother who is my biggest hero. I’d be interested in your thoughts on that moment and how you think women can counter it frequently and publicly.
P.S. If the answer to this question is in your book then my copy should be here on Tuesday. :)
I don’t know if Arianna is still here but I wanted to say how much I have appreciated her trenchant analysis of the flaws of our political class writ large in the past and look forward to her book. I also want to share how important she has been to both Valerie and me, most recently urging us to return to California “where you will be among friends.” Joe Wilson
Let me start by saying thank you to Jane and the wonderful team here at FDL. This site has rightfully become a huge success and a force to be reckoned with during the times we most desperately need it. So, again, thank you.
Arianna, I haven’t read the book yet but I plan on doing so once I get done with Palast’s Armed Madhouse
The biggest attraction for me to the FDL has to be the feminine counterpoint which it provides.
For years I (a man) have looked for a full expression of what that feminine counterpoint might be. I am coming to believe more and more that this expression has to do with compassion. After all, what could be more unseemly than a man with compassion! (snark) How unmanly to let such a feeling show!
Imagine a CEO of a big corporation trying to impose a “compassionate” paradigm onto his business infrastructure to replace the “bottom dollar” paradigm. Instant laughing stock. Yet, such a paradigm could actually save the world from the certain devistation which comes with the manly “bottom dollar” approach..
But compassion need not be whimpy! I am reminded of the Buddhist portrayal of the feminine aspects of the Buddha. One of these aspects is
“fierce compassion”. Just the juxtaposition of those two words “fierce” and “compassion” suggests a warriors’ way to acheive the balance we need.
I appreciate the fierce compassion that is on display here every day. Show us more, please!
By the way, Arianna, thank you so much for making Billo look llike a damn fool last week.
He’s such an ass.
Joe at 95 — as always, great to see you. :) Hope you, Valerie and the kids have had a pleasant weekend. (Good on you for adding Armitage to the civil suit, btw.)
Hi Ambassador Wilson ;)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 99
Thanks. As to Armitage, it was never a question of either or, always about the more the merrier.
angie @ 100
Hi Angie.
Wow… Not even a chance to type out a serious question before she had to go. Bummer!
But I’ll leave the question open to the other strong women here I admire so much. In my mind, much of what is needed to set America back on a path of sanity and compassion will be converting it more to a matriarichal culture.
How do we do this… Or more accuratley, how does Joe Blogger (as opposed to Jane Blogger) :) go about doing this?
Jiasou Arianna.
Efharisto for sharing your afternoon with us today.
So, Ambassador Wilson, when are you and/or Valerie going to write a book, so we can have you all to ourselves for a few hours?
Hi Arianna,
I was at the debate – the one and only one (since Derr Gropinator was afraid of any more than one). I thought you did well – when you weren’t interupted. I was also at one of the speeches you gave outside the south entrance to the Capitol and you really hit some great points.
Anyway, I would have voted for you if you wouldn’t have dropped out, and would vote for you again.
p.s. did you hear about Derr Gropinator’s new ad buys. The more things change, the more things stay the same.
Pleasure to have you here, Ambssador. Just wanted to wish you, Valerie and the kids the best and I hope your lawsuit actually serves to hold some of these clows accountable. Obviously Congress won’t do it so maybe your suit will. Take care.
Viva California!
The great nation of Greece is oft times referred to as “the cradle of democracy”. And I believe it to be so. Many years ago, in college, my interests were primarily along the lines of Greek philosophy and mathematics.
Would you care to give a short answer relating to what the ancient philosophers of Greece might have to say about our country today? What lesson we could learn from the Greeks in this, our not so golden age of “Bush style Democracy?
Oops, my bad – Ambassador Wilson *has* written a book.
So what are we waiting for?
Eli @ 105
Valerie is almost done with hers. I don’t know whether I will write another one or not. Perhaps a novel, describing my fantasy about what should be done to these people. No, that would be unspeakable…. Come to think of it, they have already written that book themselves. It is called Guantanamo and Abu Graib. Shame on them and shame on us for letting them get reelected.
Guitar Playing Bastard @ 92
GPB, it isn’t as if she just up and brought the baby in. According to Mommybrain’s 46,
If they’re OK with it, and she’s OK with it, and the kid’s OK with it, what does it matter (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) that you don’t like it?
Aloha from Hawaii Ambassador Wilson. You are another of my heroes for what that is worth. Unfortunately, I’m forced to spend a lot of my time surrounded by mindless fans O’Reilly, Limbaugh and Hannity and whenever your name comes up in (often heated) political discussions, I relish those moments to set them straight about what a True American gives in service to his country.
It never ceases to amaze me how many of them are completely ignorant to how much you have given in service to your country and the rightful podium of authority it gives you to speak out about current goings on. I’ve actually converted more than a few and silenced most of the rest. (At least in my presence)
Jane, Christy, Pach and TRex…. I want to thank you for the opportunities to chat and meet the true hero’s of our day.
Ambassador Wilson, it was an honor to meet you at Yearlykos and just thrilled to see you join us here.
Valerie is almost done with hers.
Oh, excellent. Can you tell us anything about it?
Boy. At some point we’re going to have to stop giving Ambassador Wilson the special treatment. He’s becoming a regular!
These white gloves are a pain to keep clean, anyway.
Thanks for stopping by Ambassador Wilson. In the context of the book discussion, thank you also for being one of those all too rare men who obviously appreciates a strong and intelligent woman/ strong and intelligent women.
Mike @ 107
Thanks. The suit is all about the abuse of power and public trust. We want people to know the truth and we want our politicians to understand that this sort of behavior is unacceptable.
Arrrgggh, missed her by that much.
Hi Amassador Wilson hope you had a good time the other night at the reception with Charlie Brown (couldn’t go, money’s tight right now)
Well-shucks that Arianna had to leave so soon, but how nice to see “Joe Wilson says” ’round here again!
Welcome back, Ambassador! Quite the Sunday-afternoon hangout we have going on here these days, no?
And how we all look forward to the Book Salon featuring “Valerie Wilson says”!
Arianna, Jane, Christy, Taylor, my heroes. Geez, English is so limited…what is the feminine of hero? (reminder: female IS an adjective.) And I am so tired of seeing children as advertisements for clothes; 15-year-old childen as models is exploitative.
I have watched you on the News Hour, and you have been gracious, but to the point; you never caved to others who were wordy and gratituious. I know that you have been formed by your experience, and I look forward to reading how that experience made you into the woman that I see today. Thank you.
For those of you who couldn’t make it to YKos, sometime we’ll have to have Joe tell you the story about Valerie’s proficiency with automatic weapons…and how that helped give him a new persepctive on their marriage when he found out about it. *g*
what is the feminine of hero?
Heroine.
john in sacramento @ 119
Great time. Charlie and Jan Brown represent this country at its best, real people stepping forward to take on the machine in the interest of the constitution of our great republic, no matter what the personal cost. I have nothing but admiration for them and expect to go out again.
John in Sacramento…
Take a look at the new ad I’ve created for Charlie Brown. Doolittle Facts Video
My flight to Sacto is scheduled for Oct 3rd. If you can, go over to my blog and lend me a hand. It’s the top post and it will explain it.
Eli @ 123
Of course, there are some alternate spellings: Arianna, Jane, Christy, Valerie, Cindy, etc…
BTW, Ambassador Wilson, I’m sure you’ve seen that M.T. Wheeler will be writing a book on the “Plame” (Wilson) betrayal under the FDL imprint. If this is too probing a question, please ignore, but will you be reading any of the text before publication?
Two books I cannot wait for: Valerie Wilson’s and Marcy Wheeler’s. At last – the truth.
lotus @ 120
what is the feminine of hero?
Heroine.
Of course, there are some alternate spellings: Arianna, Jane, Christy, Valerie, Cindy, etc…
Ain’t dat da trufe, Eli! Well said.
Joe Wilson @
124
Ambassador. I worked all weekend on the video for Charlie Brown that I linked to John in Sacramento. It would be an honor to get your input as well.
I’m giving up my life of 15 years here in Hawaii to move to CA and join his campaign. I’ve never felt better about a major decision in my life.
Joe Wilson @ 111
With all due respect, Ambassador, if it wasn’t for the “irregularities” in Ohio (just like Florida 2000) John Kerry would be President, bin Laden (and 95% of the Bush admin.) would be in jail, and the American public wouldn’t be paralyzed by the constant onslaught of fearmongering. Ahhhh…in a perfect world.
I got a kick out of your “fantasy” book. Hopefully these clowns will reap what the sow soon. Maybe a change of tides this November will get Conyers prepping his impeachment proceedings. Clintons BJ pales in comaprison to W’s war crimes. I hate to put it that way, but is there really any other way to put it?
God bless, Ambassador.
HotFlash @
112
If they’re OK with it, and she’s OK with it, and the kid’s OK with it, what does it matter (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) that you don’t like it?
What I don’t like about it is it’s being used as a generic example, when it’s not what usually happens. I don’t mind “take your kids to work day”
I do object to a generic that women should be able to bring their kids to work daily. I can also tell you had I been in that office, I’d have objected, no matter what.
M @ 127
I doubt it. Marcy knows the story far better than I. And I try to avoid putting myself into somebody else’s research/writing/judging process other than to offer my own understanding of how things unfolded. Happy to be interviewed and to answer questions, not appropriate to read others’ work before publication.
JW, you have no idea how happy your answer to me will make our beloved looseheadprop when she sees it. Thanks again.
Mike @ 132
Thank you, Ambassador Wilson, for both your courage, and Valerie’s as well. You do our nation proud.
Nate @ 131
good decision. We need to take our country back one seat at a time.
Ambassador Wilson, always a great honor to have you on an FDL thread.
Joe Wilson @ 111
Ambassador, I’m not sure we elected them ‘all that much’ and I am concerned about vote counting fraud. What is your sense of the upcoming election? Do you think we should trust the Machines or should we all vote absentee with paper ballots, or what do you advise?
Aside: Mod help please! There are underlines everywhere and but can’t see any code for it in my post!
Guitar Playing Bastard @ 137
Ours is a small price to pay compared to what our troops have had to suffer. We owe them better political leadership
If you are still around Ambassador, I was wondering what your reaction is to the Rajiv Chandrasekaran article in today’s Wapo (that is, if you have seen it. I think you stopped buying the paper version recently *g*, perhaps somebody passed it on to you!?)
Hi, Joe. Always good to see you.
HotFlash @ 140
Joe Wilson @ 141
Amen! As a Veteran I can say that I personally and most Vets I know would be more than happy just to get what we were promised and nothing more.
But even that is corrupted by this current Republican cabal. Most of whom have never “served” anything but their own self-interests and usually on the backs of those who’ve chosen to serve something greater than themselves.
Namely the Consitution of the United States of America and the citizenry of their Nation.
Ambassador, when are you coming back to southern Ohio to visit the cousins?
Jane Hamsher @ 143
Hi Jane. Hope you saw my post about you. something about the past (me) having coffee with you and Matt (the future.) Joe
karen allen @ 146
I am speaking at Denison on Tuesday.
Ambassador Wilson can you comment on this change at the CIA or would Larry Johnson be the approprate person to answer this?
Spy Agencies Outsourcing to Fill Key Jobs
Ambassador Wilson- thanks for your answer. Much appreciated. When I asked the question, I really should have said “will you be reading the chapters to scan for accuracy in dates etc.” I didn’t mean to imply more than that. And, of course, I’m digging myself into a bigger hole now, because if anyone knows all of the details of the story and can be relied on for accuracy, it’s M.T. Wheel. Apologies for the rather naive question on my part.
Good to know! What’s the time?
katymine @ 149
Larry is better placed than I to comment. As
Bob Novak once wrote, I never worked for the CIA
karen allen @ 151
I don’t know. Must be in the evening
As Bob Novak once wrote, I never worked for the CIA
Poifect.
M @ 150
No such thing as a naive question. Just stupid answers, which is what the administration has been giving us for six years now.
Joe Wilson @ 152
Will shoot him an email and see if he will address this on his blog. Thanks
Gotta run,
Thanks to all for another good book Salon
Joe, your’e speaking at 7:30 pm, Swasey Chapel
Joe Wilson @
118
Amb. Wilson, I second that hope. Will D. Corn’s lastest book allow Valerie to be more forthcoming, or is she still bound by the same rules that prevented her or you from a more full throated defense from the attacks of the right wing loonies?
True stridency is rewarded.Look at the unspeakable Ann Coulter. Look at the funeral wreaths being tossed at the repellent (and truly stupid) Oriana Falacci (Chriustopher Hitchens’ role model if he sobered up a tad.)
What cannot be countenanced is complexity.
Arianna has had a large, multi-faceted life (and we’re scarcely at the start of Act Two thank godness) and she’s put herself out there every step of the way.
Aloha Ambassador. Mahalo for stopping by. I can’t wait to read your lovely wife’s book when it is published.
Speaking of Brother Novak, what do you expect to have become of him when all the smoke clears, JW?
(”expect” as opposed to “wish”)
Thanks again, Ambassador Wilson for your response. I am hoping that your civil suit will take these er… the word starts with “b” ends with “s” down. What can we do to support you in this?
Nate @ 125
That video is good. Have you talked to anybody in Charlie’s office about getting it out there?
Oh, and I’ll check your blog too.
Thanks, Ambassador.
Well, double-shucks — but then again, who’d a-thunk I’d get to ask JW even one question today?
Again…. Jane, Christy, Pach, TRex, Taylor and all the other who post here. Thank you.
This week I will have the opportunity to meet John Dean in person. He will be speaking at an ACLU event in Phoenix on the 21st. The ability to chat with people who in the past would be outside of our sphere of contact is so amazing.
please hit F5 or the Mac equivalent to totally reload this page in your browser
And now we come to the close of yet another edition of FDL’s Cavalcade of Stars.
Great, katymine! Take good notes, won’t you?
I thought of you last night as I was chomping away on a delicious plate of Greek goodies.
John Dean and the ACLU– what a wonderful pair! Lucky you katymine.
Geeeze, Lotus!
Hey there, tommy! God, feels like fo-evah since I got to greet you in real time!
Ambassador Wilson, you would be among friends in a great many places in this country.
I love FDL’s Cavalcade of Stars.
meta @ 172
?
lotus @
166
thank goodness you were released recently!!! miracles do happen *g*
There is hope for the aversion to strong women to be a footnote in American history. Many continue to push a double standard using chromosome count as a measurement of credibility.
Arianna, the ladies of the lake, as well as others show we cannot eliminate half of our brain trust (some would say the better half) to compete in the three-legged sack race of enlightenment.
As for me, I have pointed out here before that my first female boss was my boss for two weeks before I realized she was my first female boss. It just wasn’t relevant.
Congratulations on the informative book, Arrianna, and FDL for shining light on dog-whistle sexism.
I’m embarrassed. I have myalgic encephalomyletis. Ambassador Wilson, my very best to you and you wife…I came to this site to understand your particular struggle as a way to keep my cognitive understanding working well…you’ve been my therapy. Your fight, however, has continued my therapy in believing that truth matters, that the our democracy matters, and that life in these United States is not doomed to negative, power-seeking, greedy unprincipled people.
May my therapy continue.
tommy yum @
169
tommy yum, I think after your spectacular “had enough” outing you qualify for the cavalcade yourself.
Thanks for stopping by, Joe. As always.
As for me, I have pointed out here before that my first female boss was my boss for two weeks before I realized she was my first female boss. It just wasn’t relevant.
My first boss was female.
Actually, come to think of it, I’ve worked for women almost my entire professional career.
I am an ACLU Guardian of Liberty…. which means that I donate $25.00/month to the ACLU. That puts me on the “A” list for events. Will report back on the event!
Hey, got to insure to have defense when they haul me away to the pokey…….
john in sacramento @ 164
I just finished it this weekend. Shoot me an email at my blog so we can talk offline and I’ll fill you in.
Does John Dean have a website listing the various places where he will be speaking?
yesterday, at our big downtown Fiesta, I bought from the Indiana State Democratic Party a T-shirt with “Had Enough?” on it — I was there hyping the re-election of our local progressive Congresslady…
Joe, since you’re delurking now by habit, I’m calling you “Joe” in public.
Good to have you around again.
lotus @
176
Just teasin’ ya.
katymine @
183
yay katymine and heh! Now that’s smart disaster planning, beats the heck outta duct tape and plastic sheeting…
My blueprint for the next millinium:
Men–maintain supply lines.
Women–everything else.
It’s a bit more complex than that.The right has made Hillary-hatred an industry. They’ve turned her into a cardboard witch who’s to be hated because — as they’ve insisted over and over and over and over again
1) She’s a lesbian
2) Killed her lover Vincent Foster — even though she’s a lesbian.
3) Tolerates Bill — even though she’s a lesbian
Running on the same track are all their rules about what a “real woman” should be — rules violated by Lucianne Goldberg, Kate O’Beirne, Ann Coulter, et. al.
Can we say Cognitive Dissonance boys and girls?
an ACLU membership is like a good insurance policy for activists…several times, in tense situations, I’ve had to remind ‘the other side’ that I’m a member of the ACLU and will have to use their assistance. It often works!
meta @ 188
Whuffo this time, toots?
And — oh by the way — where’s that flavor-by-crunch-by-slurp report on your lunch at Chez Panisse you owe me, hmmmm, sweetcheeks?
Guitar Playing Bastard – i left a message for you at the end of the GOP War thread.
I’m a skeptic on Barak Obama, but more like this.
Obama
Okay, I hope it’s okay to go OT now. If not please delete and I will post elsewhere, as appropropriate. I’ll save a copy.
I am hoping that there are some lawyers out there. I clicked on the link in Watertiger’s post and got to wondering about CIA agents taking out insurance- specifically whether this would protect them against accusations of torture etc. if the torture etc. happened before they took out the insurance? Is it insurance for the event in question, or inclusive insurance for any trials that come from events before insurance was taken out?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..86_pf.html
karen allen @ 185
John Dean does a regular column at FindLaw (with message boards for discussions), but I’m not aware of a personal blog with a list of speaking engagements.
Good legal discussions, though – even for non-lawyers!
Thanks, Peterr!
Arianna, hope you are still reading, thank you for your example of living boldly. Am taking notes.
Ambassador Wilson, hope you are still reading, it’s such a thrill to have you comment here! We need a new version of Profiles in Courage. You and Valerie—our heroes—will be in the first chapter. Aspiring authors here at FDL?
We could also include Mora, Fitzgerald, others who stood up against tyranny.
surfer at 97 I appreciate the fierce compassion that is on display here every day. Show us more, please!
Interesting to try to balance being compassionate with being tough. It works best imo when there is something you deeply believe in, something important, urgent. Then you will not let obstacles stop you. If you decide it is a problem which MUST be solved, then you will keep struggling until you solve it or hand it off to your successors.
Whether you know the source of your individual energy or not, if you can tap into it and ride it there are great rewards. I liked the earlier comment about becoming yourself, more alive, that’s what the world needs. Follow your passion.
Everyone can do something to help: lead, follow, support, teach, learn.
Joe Wilson @
155
Hello. Memo to DC Democrats: That’s what people need (and want) to hear – a public figure that speaks his or her mind.
TeddySanFran RULZ!
…ann coulter is a woman? …a disgrace is what she is
Well, Arianna didn’t answer my #35. I was curious to see if Arnold would have been one of the three.
Right you are, citizen k. That’s exactly the kind of wowzer we need from Dems!
lotus @ 192
Bout the priviledge of chatting with the great JW, silly.
Chez was fabuleaux. Bliss. Happy to see warm familar faces. Most amazing fresh bean and parsley salad ever with tiny capers and thinly sliced egg, fresh mackeral, pork and roasted figs, grilled okra, baby lettuces, egadssss. Got comped fresh peaches – made me swoon – and Bronx grapes, which are unbelievable. We also had 2 desserts – fresh plum gallete – we were crying at the first bite and grape muscadine sorbet with ossi di morti.
I was also wondering earlier today if Kate O’Bierne got her husband that job as a boondoggle?
Eli, I’m so embarrassed that I forgot ‘heroine’; what a terrible reminder that I have forgotten that much of my past: the first woman to take courses at two Catholic seminaries in Boston, and one of the first at the Episcopal Seminary in Cambridge, Mass.; almost sixty( 58, actually) and this place gives me hope.
Well, DUH!
citizen k @ 195
I have met him and discussed our mutual interest in Russia—he is picking up the Nunn-Lugar reins—and how our international reputation is plummeting. He is definitely listening to what people have to say.
He speaks beautifully. At the end of our dinner he carried on for half an hour on a wide range of topics, without notes. It was a very impressive performance.
Obama is still developing his voice and his positions. Let’s not demonize him, he is trying to build a strong position for the long haul. He is working his way up in the Senate, including a coalition with incumbent Democrats. That’s not evil, just smart politics. We need to persuade him to go beyond the safe Democratic middle and be the true leader he is capable of becoming.
An important fact I learned from his book [HIGHLY recommend…fdl salon?] is that his father challenged political corruption in Africa and was treated with brutal retaliation.
Obama clearly wants to serve the public, in fact no one would blame him for living an entirely private life after his father’s experience. I give him credit for being willing to enter politics, with all its heartaches.
EDITED BY SITE OWNER
Please stay on topic during Book Salon.
Kathryn in MA @
194
I looked for it and if you addressed me by name, I sure enough did’t see it. Care to give me a synopsis? :-)
Lotus, Lotus…
Marie Callender? That’s just sad. I cooked a pot roast. mmmm.
EPU’d and reposted from last thread, when the Book Salon was just starting . . .
I have very split opinions on Obama. Sometimes he seems too concerned about appearing to be in the center, and other times he’s out ahead of the crowd calling for integrity. I think part of this is that he’s still finding his voice in national politics. By sending him props when he calls Bush out on the war, we can encourage his progressive voice to speak more loudly.
During the Democratic Senate primary in Illinois, the late Paul Simon met with Obama, and was ready to endorse him in a big public fashion. Unfortunately, Simon was suddenly hospitalized and died shortly thereafter. (Simon’s daughter did speak for Obama on behalf of the Simon family.) I knew Paul Simon, and his political antennae were much sharper than mine ever will be. If Simon thought Obama was the real deal, I’m willing to keep hoping for more like what angie’s seeing today.* (No TV available here, and dialup and C-Span video don’t go so well together either.)
Two cents from this IL expatriate.
*[angie had posted a comment earlier on that thread about Obama]
Here you go, GPB –
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-298927
Jane Hamsher @
180
Omigod, I’ve been outed!
God I hate phone polls…. this time, asking if I think Abortion should be legal….. Now that is NOT the question to ask me after chatting with Arianna talking about being Fearless….
“A woman’s choice is between herself and her healthcare professional on what is right for her at that time in her life and NOT the business of anyone else especially the government!”
Guitar – when i greeted you so happily a while ago, i thought you were Subway Serenade, all healthy and back on line. Got my musicians mixed up. Sorry for confusion.
Lotus, how about some red leaf lettuce, end of season heirloom tomatoes, olives nicoise, sliced cucumber, extra virg olive oil and vinegar, cracked pepper?
So interesting what Arianna said about Hillary. Explains everything.
Hi lotus!
Gotta run and put the sweeties to bed.
Thanks, Jane. Another home run.
meta, you and yo’ sallet bo’ come right ahead on ovah hyeah . . .
Egregious: I very much dislike Obama’s repeated “democrats should … ” talks. His performance on Alito was disgraceful. But he’s got the gift and he’s not dumb and in the US Senate, verve and sharpness is in damn short supply so it doesn’t take much to stand out.
Kathryn in MA @
217
Well geez, I hope you like me too…even if I can be a cranky old curmudgeon. :-)
GPB – LOL! **smooches** of course! i just felt bad leaving you so confused!
Okay, guys, the rule is, please stay on topic during Book Salon. I know things drifted off after Arianna left but please take OT conversations onto the previous thread.
For what it’s worth, I’ve been a fan of Arianna for sme time and certainly thought she’d make a beter governor than any of the others on that stage. I also rather like that she ends up sounding like Howard Dean as often as not (even blogged about it once, referng to her as Arianna Deanington). Needless to say, I had no idea that all of that was going on during the debate. Bustamante should have been slapped for pulling that shit.
Nate @ 103
What originally brought me into politics many moons ago was the possibility of World War III between us and the Soviet Union. I observed that half of our potential activists were being ignored because of gender. This led me to work for women’s rights, not simply for the obvious fairness involved, but to increase the number of intellectuals engaged in issues of war and peace. Now we reap the harvest.
By the way when I entered my Ivy League [and it couldn’t be Harvard, Yale, or Princeton because they DIDN’T ACCEPT WOMEN], women had to have an SAT score 100 points higher than men. Only men could do early admission. The marching band accepted only men, not that we musicians are still bitter. This is today’s report from the Planet Mars, as I explain to my disbelieving children, how such things were possible.
Ooops, apologies, Jane. We gradually forgot where we are after AH and JW departed . . . but thanks again for having them and us “over.”
I am always too late for these discussions (freaking time zones)but always enjoy them immensely. It is so good to read these public figures actually giving answers to people’s questions and opening themselves up to discussion. I also dig it that they seem at long last to be taking both women (jane and christy & all the strong, fearless women here) and bloggers seriously.Yay for Progress!
I am very much behind your campaign to rid the world of that gang of evil kleptocrats who grabbed power in the USA but seldom have anything useful or interesting to say on campaign strategy.I have therefore become perforce a lurker, but a daily and involved one.
Keep on keeping on.You are doing the world a favour.Suez in SAfrica.
Jane Hamsher @ 224
Hope the above comment about women’s rights is on topic, and I apologize if my response to citizen k on Obama doesn’t make the cut.
Cheers suezboo!
egregious @ 225
Thanks for replying egregious. I was worried that question would dissapear into the void.
suezboo! Jump “downstairs” one thread so we can catch up with you!
Arianna thank you so much for being here and being the person you are. You inspire me. I am buying your book tomorrow. I must post this on the heels of Steve Audio’s favorite quote from your book:
“There is also a price to pay for living timidly – and a lot less upside.”
On Commitment
“Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectivness. Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one
elementary truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves, too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. The whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one’s favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material his way. I have learned a deep respect for one of Goethe’s couplets: ‘Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.’”
-from W.H. Murray, “The Scottish Himalayan Expedition”
egregious @ 226
Mmm… Some years ago my Mother was asked to speak at a roundtable discussion for Stanford GSB alumnae. She was in one of the first classes of women admitted (mid-70s). Mom did great (also Greek — must be something in the genes). There was another panelist — a woman from the first class — who was very strident about women’s rights and somewhat off-putting to the recent alums. But I thought to myself (then a budding female scientist who had occasionally been the lone female in engineering undergrad classes) that I sure was lucky she’d put herself on the line because she’d paved the path for me too.
It’s not that long ago. (and I hope on-topic enough)
Hiya Hope!
I sent you an email to the only addresses I have. I’m on my way out the door but I wanted to find a chance to talk to you sometime this week.
egregious, but, don’t they see that music IS the thing? (accepted at Princeton, no money, that was then, and I couldn’t go, poor minister and teacher parents)
What Arianna consistently invokes is the enture concept of Citizen Politico. Yes she started off in “Real POlitics” but now she’s in the Reality-Based Community, where things are infinitely real-er.
I started out in politcs in High School as I attented Communist Martyrs High (aka The High School of Music and Art in New York City) We were up to our eyeballs in “Red Diaper Babies” and opposed to the Vietnam War before it officially started. As the Red Squad had its car parked outside every day to take our pictures I sequed into the larger anti-Vietnam movement AND radical gay politics without missing a beat. Had my phone tapped too. But as John LaTouche wrote “Not a Care in the World.”
Nate @ 231
Nate, I think you showed a lot of courage to propose that we should lean more towards how women see the world. This was my idea in college, which led me to work for women’s rights, for the greater goal of having more smart people engaged in issues of war and peace.
Unbelievably we find ourselves in this critical position once again, where the nation’s soul depends on urgent involvement by activist citizens. At least this time we are listening to EVERYBODY who wants to work for peace, instead of just the male half.
Jane Hamsher @ 225
Okay, since you asked so nicely, I am curious about how you and others view the notion of being “fearless.” So far it’s been discussed mostly in an important, but still narrow context of being fearless in the presence of male domination. Okay. But what else?
So what does it mean to you, and it is something that only some can relate to, or is there a broader application? Is there, for example, a broad general principle of fearlessness that you see missing in American politics (and what examples do we have to explain this better), or in reporting on American politics? The reason I ask is that I see this election as driven by a variety of fears, and it’s cripplying the conversation and concealing whole ranges of options for policy and political discourse. So I want to know, for example, how we use blogs — how Jane sees using this blog — as a means of breaking through those fears.
If this is not how you define the “topic,” I apologize and please delete this.
Sean Robertson @ 226
Yea, it was Bustamante and Herr Grabanboobus who kept interrupting her. The two people on the stage who had the most respect and politeness for Arianna were McClintock and Peter Camejo, and I voted for Mr. Camejo after Arianna dropped out
I wasn’t inside the Ballroom, but I was in the Student Union (about 50 ft. away, down the hall) watching on the teevee with the students and Dave Walker and Lois Hart (formerly of CNN) came in and sat at my table (which was kinda kewl)
Anyway, Arianna did well when she could answer
It’s the fearlessness that comes with speaking truth to power.
Arianna @
75
Getting Out The Vote is a lost art for the Democrats — and they are completely clueless when it comes to boutique politics and viral marketing campaigns.
Single women are the strongest supporters of Democrats — but we don’t know how to reach women that are disengaged from the process.
Karl Rove and the GOP have built their success on mobilizing fundie churches in ways that the Democrats never dreamed of with their strongest supporters. Democratic GOTV consists of throwing warm bodies into low turnout neighborhoods, and hope it pays off at the polls. There is no plan, and no strategic outreach.
Can the Arianna and the FDL Women’s Caucus come up with a viral marketing plan, to reach the waitresses and students and single moms and Latina women, to educate them as to the importance of registering to vote — and actually voting on election day.
The viral marketing network approach works for the GOP — can we make it work for American Women?
What a fine quote, Hope — thanks. As I read it, what struck me first, though, is how thoroughly, classically, 19th-century (say) male it sounds.
Until amazingly recently, I’m sure women and girls wouldn’t have been welcome anywhere near such thoughts. It may, in 2006, be doofus even to say what I just did. But as recently as 40 years ago, “Murray on boldness” would have been firmly, indelibly marked FOR MEN ONLY.
ck
that is speaking truth to power
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 233
Hope, you posted that quote here before and I immediately copied it – it’s been on my desktop for reference and I’m glad I have the chance to thank you for sharing… I’d forgotten who dropped that gem here. Now I know it was you!
Hi Arianna. I read your book, and it really made sense to me. And yet the guy who owns my local newsagents in London is also Greek, and I can’t understand a sodding word he says.
How do you account for this apparent paradox?
But as recently as 40 years ago, “Murray on boldness” would have been firmly, indelibly marked FOR MEN ONLY.
And are we ALL gladder and healthier for it that that was then and this is now.
Arriana: What can the great Greek playwrights — Aristophanes, Euripides, etc. — teach us about the role of women in society?
Joe Wilson @ 124
Jan Brown personally called me with thanks for what was not such a stupendous contribution. I have not seen such a good response for a low level donation since Larry Kissell, future Congressman from NC, personally wrote with thanks. Memo to pols: this WORKS. Future $ coming your way.
harryH and orange, hate to break the news but Arianne has departed. We can still discuss her ideas….
marily @ 243
I thought he was talking to the Democrats…
Patrick upstairs: http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..-your-eyes
you know scarecrow, it’s a good question. So many of us tremble with joy when we hear Keith O. speak. So too with Steven Colbert, Helen Thomas, Ann Richards (RIP), David Gregory, Russ Feingold, Al Gore, Bruce Fein, Jonathan Turley, Kate Martin, Citizen Harry, Joe Wilson, Ray McGovern, Molly Ivins, Amy Goodman, etc.
The common theme for me is that they speak the truth and it resonates and they get coverage because they do have a platform and they are using it! They are fearless in truth. But among the millions of Americans out “here” the platform is only now becoming more sure and more accessible. Because of technology and yes, blogs, we learn and practice how to express ourselves and try out ideas and methods on each other. Not so long ago, it was difficult to do this without having an entire actual and safe community supporting you ’cause then you just got to wear the label ‘troublemaker’, ‘extremist’, or ‘looney’. NO more. This gives us power and confidence and the ability to see/read opposing views and reason and learn from one another.
egregious @ 198
egregious I believe you not only nailed it in your comment, but you actually live this. I found an interesting comment by Sally Cunneen who reviews China Galland’s book, “The Bond Between Women: A Journey to Fierce Compassion”.
Would you forebare me a short quote?
“The narrator now counterpoints her stories of Durga, Kali, Tara, and Latin American Black Madonnas with portraits of living women who show similarly fierce compassion. She has come to see that the myths of a fierce, compassionate, feminine divine call out to those of us who fear for the world today. The mythic potential and the social reality of women’s existence are beautifully intertwined and mutually enriching in The Bond Between Women; Galland’s personal spiritual search is constantly broken open by the sufferings of real people and women who try to alleviate them.”
I’m not exactly sure where this thread is, but I have one OT and one “I think” OT from the way the thread has gone.
******
When I went into law, I had bangs, blonde hair and at 5′2″ looked youngish. I also was very non-confrontational and really liked law bc I liked it – not bc I really wanted to litigate or be in the center of power deals, yada yada I was perfectly happy drafting and doing research. However, through fluke and circumstance I ended up with troubled loan workout expertise right when there weren’t many who had it at my firm and when a lot of big cases were hitting.
One thing I discovered was I HAD to overcome a fear of asking questions, even when I thought they might be stupid questions (surely they’ve thought of this – or done that -etc) It was a very hard thing, to be in a room full of older men, with my bangs and pipey Kentucky voice, quick blush, and the only “UK” grad in the firm (I can’t tell you how often, when I was interviewing, I would hear muttered – hmmm, didn’t even know we interviewed at UK ) and the room, and get enough control of the room to get to my questions to start with – then actually ask them. And force things back to them, as often as necessary, to get things locked.
One big thing made it easier – i.e., being in the position of an advocate for someone else. It made the pressure more (not wanting to seem incapable or not up to speed) but it also made it easier to push and push hard when it was for someone else If this isn’t universally true, I think it is common enough that it is one way to get people to dip their toe in the water of assertiveness.
****************
Maybe OT? I missed Ambassador Wilson :( and it might not have been the time/place/person – but I’ve thought about Christy’s comments from the meeting with Clinton and the research and grassroots efforts where bloggers have good skills, but ones that are not necessarily tapped. I know that he and his wife are working with CREW and I’ve always thought that CREW and POGO might have some more synergistic way of working together on items and I wonder if either entity (or bloggers) have thought of trying some coordinated activities.
Just wanted to say that Arianna’s book is a wonderful gift to all women. I am giving it to each of my three daughters, aged 24-32. It says what they and all women can’t hear enough, and it says it in clear, concise language. Thank you, Arianna!
Waaaay late to this discussion, but have had the best time reading everyone’s comments – really inspires me.
So many of us were raised to be “good,” to respect authority and to behave, that it can feel wrong to speak one’s mind if it is not in line with what the powers that be have decreed. You will hear a lot of women, in different situations, prefacing their comments with variations of, “Well, this may sound like a really stupid idea, but…” or “I know this might seem silly, but…” – we sabotage our own opinions, as if they are not worthy of being spoken out loud or considered as valid. When is the last time anyone heard a man say those things? It’s like we apologize in advance for having brains, and I just refuse to do that. It can be hard enough to be taken seriously without sending a big signal that we don’t even take ourselves seriously – and if we don’t, why should anyone else?
So what if someone doesn’t like your idea, or share your opinion? It’s a lot easier to fight for your beliefs if you don’t start out as though you aren’t even sure you believe them.
I highly recommend that you try it one time, and see if you don’t feel stronger and more powerful and way less fearful.
angie — I think that’s certainly part of it. I was also thinking of topics that are taboo, that are like third rails. This is related to a question I asked earlier today: why is it that the Bush/neocons have failed so miserably, and screwed up so many things, but the party in power may not lose power in November. Surely there is something fundamentally wrong with political discourse in American. But this is a topic for another session, I guess. thanks for responding.
Eli @ 251
The question is about practical politics — how can we help the Democrats grow the base?
Can Arianna and the FDL Women’s Caucus come up with a plan to reach those 20 million non-voting single women? Maybe business cards, with URL’s for websites on women’s empowerment and the importance of voting.
The big question is — how do we grow the base?
How do we reach our non-voting natural constituents?
I would have enjoyed a more definitive discussion of the nature of fearlessness…guess I’ll have to go here instead
Well scarecrow there are lots of things that certainly seem to be third rail– the pols can’t and won’t really touch racism, Israel/Palestine policy, church/state separation, appropriations for the wars, impeachment etc because it would jeopardize their jobs, their power or their chance for election.
There is something intrinsically sick and corrupt about it, imho.
angie @ 261
Exactly. And look at your list. Every topic relates directly to the fundamental problems we’re having here and abroad.
Slothrop @ 260
I just read some reviews of the book on Amazon and it looks good. Just placed my order… thanks!
Slothrop –
There is a Hindu meditation for overcoming fear of death — corpse sitting.
Personally, I’ve chosen to forgo that one — but Becoming Fearless is a powerful concept. hmmm . . . maybe I’ll have to read the book . . .
scarecrow @ 239
…
But what else?
So what does it mean to you, and it is something that only some can relate to, or is there a broader application? Is there, for example, a broad general principle of fearlessness that you see missing in American politics (and what examples do we have to explain this better), or in reporting on American politics?
I posted something to this effect in Patrick’s next thread.
I thinke there is a need for more fearlessness in all our lives.
You will hear a lot of women, in different situations, prefacing their comments with variations of, “Well, this may sound like a really stupid idea, but…” or “I know this might seem silly, but…” – we sabotage our own opinions, as if they are not worthy of being spoken out loud or considered as valid. When is the last time anyone heard a man say those things?
Kinda sounds like me at work every day, actually…
Throwing myself on moderator mercy to correct Fitzgerald at 199….thx yay jetlag.
Sounds like we are on a similar wavelength scarecrow.
You know, I live in NH now and because we get unique access to pols here, one of my most common test questions to them and on blogs is wrt our policy on Israel/Palestine. I got Wes Clark to answer me once, once upon a time. That’s it. Nobody touches it directly.
Ever.
Well I have to say I am once again impressed with the ability of the folks who are featured here in these FDL Book Salons and the Blue America chats to respond extemporaneously with such clarity and insight. I’d still be answering post #1 while post #100 was being added.
-ck- @ 264
I ordered the book to take with me on a trip this week. The writer is a Buddhist nun and it looks like a fine read. I guess I’m more interested in fear and how it is a prime mover in all of our lives, male and female, rather than fear as it may relate to women exclusively…
egregious @
267
исправлено
Eli @ 266
Don’t know if you are male or female, but I don’t think that it is a bad thing for a person of either sex to give others an opening to be generous, as Joe Wilson was upthread w/”no stupid questions”. It also leaves you a way out if it really *is* a stupid question ;) I say it all the time — it just works better in many situations.
*ilson46201 @
271
you are completely amazing *ilson 46201.
I’ll be darned, Mary. You always sound at least 10′4″ to me.
*ilson 46201,
The underlines, they are gone! Thanks!
HotFlash @ 271
I’m male, but my role at work has become kind of a liaison/bridge between my department (Operations) and the the IT department. So it’s not all that unusual for me to have no idea what I’m talking about…
Eli, I have good days and this is one. If you have anger against women, tell me what it is. We will answer, for I believe that I am not alone.
Eli @ 266
Self neutralization is not necessarily self sabotage — in fact, it may be a survival mechanism for those not in the Alpha Big Dog seat of power.
Survival is the first imperative; food and shelter are next. These are the essence of Security — once we feel secure within ourselves, we have the opportunity to become fearless.
marily @ 276
Wait… what? I don’t have any anger at all against women – unless you count Althouse, O’Beirne, Coulter, Malkin…
-ck- @ 277
When I’m sure of my ground, I will fire away without fear. But when I’m *not*, I’m not going to pretend that I am.
We have all seen how much damage can be caused by people who only act like they know what they’re talking about.
Eli @ 279
Those are double XXer’s with female anatomy — beyond that, I am loathe to call them women.
When I’m sure of my ground, I will fire away without fear. But when I’m *not*, I’m not going to pretend that I am.
Actually I think true vulnerability and humility are signs of a confident person, so your instincts are good…
Eli @ 276
*g* But I’ll bet you are an expert in diplomacy!
Becoming an actualized person with an authentic personality (which is my life quest) doesn’t mean adopting a false male persona. Or a false persona at all. It means becoming uniquely… you.
Mary at 255, I like very much your insight about taking strength from being in a position of advocating for others.
When we try this and test the truth of it, then comes the big leap — being our own advocators.
*g* But I’ll bet you are an expert in diplomacy!
Oh, I’m learning. I figure it’s not smart to have these people mad at you. Some of them can be really difficult and/or cranky, too.
Jenny from the Blog @ 281
I basically just don’t want to be full of shit. Especially when talking to people who will *know* I’m full of shit.
Heroines
*ilson46201 @ 271
spacibo.
egregious @
289
nichevo
marily @ 287
Including one named marily.
The Bhagavad Gita in a nutshell –
The God Krishna teaches the reluctant Arjuna that he must forget the rules of war, and step out of his chariot and kill his half brother — who has been trapped when his chariot sank into the Earth.
This is what the Democrats need to do — forget the esteemed collegue BS, and go for the kill of their GOP opponents. This is the opportunity — they cannot afford to let fear and timidity stop them.
*ilson46201 @ 290
vi milleh
Jenny from the Blog @ 284
Hear hear! No false male personae! Or false female personae either! I think the *actual* differences between the sexes are overstated, although I agree that there are very real differences still in what is expected/accepted for men and women. Detrimental to both, IMO. Oh, oh, and I am *not* saying they are the same!
-ck- @ 292
ck – Leonard Cohen told that story beautifully in the new documentary. Although I’ve known it for years I was spellbound by his telling. This was his intro to his song covered by Martha Wainwright called “Traitor”. It was so interesting hearing the song after the Arjuna story.
egregious @
293
didi madloba (!!!)
and still the margins are under firm and Socratic control!
HotFlash @ 294
heh. Don’t worry, I won’t bite your head off. I agree.
*ilson is revealing his inner child by breaking the margins. :)
Oh… d’oh! HotFlash is a woman, of course. Hi sister!
Jenny from the Blog @ 298
Does this mean he’s marginalized, or not marginalized?
Eli @ 301
It means he’s letting his id shine… which is beneficial to his health!
thank god for *ilson. Y’all have no idea about all the nasty comments he’s cleaned up behind the scenes. Not to mention the other stuff. Here here!
1. The margins are not broken (yet)
2. As a Moderator, I can arrange that margins are not the only things marginalized around here.
3. Notice the language in the nested chitchat. Russian and Georgian. What did Uncle Joe speak?
4. Stalinist Moderator, indeed!
ugly, eh Valley Girl?
Hurrah *ilson!
And we’re all grateful post-moderationists.
angie- *ilson is so quick on the draw that I’m sure I don’t even see 50% of it. And, yeah, ugly stuff.
HI JennyFTB!
Hey hotflash! :)
VG – *ilson is too quick. Sometimes (perversely) I’d like to see what we’re missing!
Jenny from the Blog @ 308
If you miss the trolls, you can always peek in at Eschaton…
Jenny from the Blog @ 309
I think *ilson would speak otherwise, because there are some folks who just can’t help quoting those comments, and further drawing attention to them. And, then, the bloody mouse parts are all over the place.
fwiw, there is a male and a female style of moderating here, oddly enough. All the males are also gay except for one who is still undetermined, he’s so shadowy.
The women tend to be more tolerant of disruptive folk and work to redeem them. The guys tend to be preemptory and boot folk fast…
*ilson46201 @ 311
Oh my.
Bless you both and everybody else here that keeps this a civil place amidst all the wreckage around us. How sad for them that they feel they must do what they do… I cannot imagine sullying anyone as they regularly seem to do with what appears to be reckless abandon.
sincerely, thank you.
OK. I don’t really want to see any ugliness here. So thanks mods of all genders and sexual preference!
Have I left anyone out? Oh, the androgynous mod, whoever it may be. :)
*ilson- I’ve heard he has a wife.
Well, maybe it’s a matter of seeing shades of grey. If they are clearly disruptive, I have been known to give them a STFU. And, of course, as you know, it is a big no-no to be rude to commenters. At least, if one is a moderator ;)
I have used my commenting skills developed here at FDL and started participating in the local political blogs, all of which are unmoderated. It gets so incredibly ugly and hateful. Scary! The open racism of the wingers is depressing …
*ilson46201 @ 316
The two Pittsburgh blogs I visit most often have some pretty revolting trolls as well.
Fortunately or unfortunately, I appear to be too obscure and mediocre to even attract trolls.
Jenny from the Blog @ 284
We have a website here for the family business, we get a ton of spam, abt 3,000 per day. Some pretty nasty, but it’s the *volume* that just wears us down. Fortunately we don’t have to deal with trolls, though.
HotFlash- there is a lot of spam at FDL also, though not at that level! Thankfully, there is a spam filter via WP, but the spammers are relentless in outwitting the filters.
HotFlash @ 319
HotFlash, I use a mac and my email doesn’t let any spam through. On the very rare occasion I get one I just flag it as spam and bounce it – that takes care of the problem. I hope you find a way to deal with the spam because it must be hell for a business.
Valley Girl @
321
Don’t forget Poland!
(Polish sex fiends have been spamming here recently)
*ilson46201 @ 322
I think you may be misinterpreting the references to “poles”.
*ilson- recently?
lotus @ 291
I will be forever grateful
Lotus, gratitude
Jenny from the Blog @ 322
I like Cloudmark which is very smart at catching spam, but doesn’t work with Thunderbird, and either way I still have to clean out the boxes on our server. But sorting spam is Not My Job, fortunately!
BTW, I asked the on the Other Thread, too. Any updates on the Mouseboycott? Have any of the injured parties sent legal flashbangs?
I got some catching up to do now. Attended a traditional native american sweat lodge this afternoon. Buffalo stew & salmon pot luck after. You all were in my prayers. Arianna is ‘The Dame’ and I very much enjoyed meeting and helping her out for a booksigning(Fanatics & Fools). Bravo Jane & Reddhedd, can’t wait for the K.O..
*ilbo– thanks for the good thoughts and how cool!
Joe Wilson @
95
Arianna is spot on – do return to California – preferably the central coast where you are both revered and respected.
Her public persona is admirable. I’m glad it inspires others.
I’ve heard otherwise about her with the people she works with. She is manic-like and not very graceful. One minute you are everything she needs and the next minute you “won’t work in this town again”.
I wouldn’t deify her. She has her not-so-public faults too.
MrEMan @
93
It’s remarks like these that don’t really help us understand anything.
The real problem is that we’ve got authoritarians in power who *hate* the exercise of reason. To lump these despicable people “in” with other far-sighted men of conscience does (us guys) a grave disservice.
As a man who seeks a calm, deliberate approach to the problems of the day from our elected officials, both male and female, I find our government as maddening and infuriating as any woman I know.
Wasn’t it Katherine Harris who recently said that “the separation of church and state was a lie?” Clearly, there are certain estrogen-laden people who simply need to be kept out of government for the good of the Republic.
I’ll take Bill Nelson’s testosterone over KH’s hormones any day of the week, even leaving out the fact that one of them is bat-nuts.
orangejumpsuit @
248
I’m guessing she’d concentrate on Lysistrata. :-)
Feist @
332
That should read “I find our government as maddening and infuriating as any woman I know *does*.”
Yikes… :-)