
I don’t know about everyone else, but I have quite had it with the kerfuffles that keep threatening to take our eye off the real work going into November.
Contrary to some people’s ignorant rantings, women have always had titties, so get over your nasty, smarmy insinuations and get your head out of someone else’s lingerie bin. I hadn’t spent time with Jessica prior to the meeting on Tuesday, but she seems quite nice and was very sharp and doesn’t deserve a bunch of faux jealous whining because she happens to have boobs. Here’s a news flash: every woman has boobs. (Some men do as well, but that’s a whole ‘nother post.) They come in all sizes. Some women use them as props (Katherine Harris, Pamela Anderson, etc.), some women just have good posture. But no woman should have to hunch over and be ashamed of her boobs because some other woman is perpetually walking around in claws out mode, hoping for an opportunity to use them — especially when we are all well past the eighth grade. That’s not feminism, it’s jealousy.
And all the griping about who was what color at the Clinton meeting earlier this week…well, it was done without anyone first checking with Peter Daou or anyone else on the Clinton staff. Had such checking been done (you know, reporting…how quaint), inquiries would have revealed that a much larger number of folks had been invited — including a number of African-American, latino, and so on and so forth bloggers — but that they couldn’t make it due to the quick nature of this first meeting being arranged.
Yes, you read that correctly.
I’ve actually corresponded with Peter on this issue — I thought checking with someone who might actually know what DID happen would be prudent before spouting my mouth off – and it is my understanding that they hope to do a few more meetings with more bloggers in the future. (Because, unlike some Presidents who are insular and like a sycophantic echo chamber, Bill Clinton likes to discuss issues from a number of perspectives. So all this premature whining was just that — premature.)
I also know how quickly the meeting was put together, because it was an enormous scramble for me and my family to get me there — making arrangements for our 3 year old, Mr. ReddHedd rearranging his schedule, etc. — but we did it because it was important to me, and I felt would be important for FDL and our readers. But it is completely understandable that everyone could not turn their schedule around on a dime — and anyone who has spent time working or raising a family in their lifetime ought to know that.
But all of this misses the larger picture: liberal bloggers were invited to meet with the former President of the United States to talk about policy initiatives and the Democratic party and politics going into the November elections.
What does that mean? I’ll let a snippet from a Guardian article speak to that:
Ever since blogs took off in America three or four years ago, the running has been made by writers and editors from the right such as Andrew Sullivan, Michelle Malkin and Glenn Reynolds, the law professor behind InstaPundit. Liberal sites were confined to the role of second cousins.
So the Clinton meeting was a much-needed pat on the back. Bill Scher, who edits the Liberal Oasis blog, thinks they are now emerging as real forces. "Right-wing blogs have been very good and very fast at putting out misinformation. What we are now learning to do is to be better than that – to put out good information faster than they do and accurately so that it cannot be rebutted."…
Now they have moved a step beyond that. "We are no longer dismissed as just ATMs for the Democrats – now people have to listen to what we say."
And THAT rising tide raises ALL the liberal blogger boats — and those of our readers as well – and not just the ones that happened to be in the room at this first meeting.
In the larger scheme of things, Democratic messaging has been a sort of leaky life raft the last few years — sometimes it floats okay, sometimes you spend all your time bailing. Liberal blogs have become an effective means of messaging — for the Democratic party, which needs the help getting their message across. And also, and more importantly in my mind, for our readership, who are often folks who have trouble getting the ear of people in power, but often have a lot of incredibly valuable things to say and needs that ought to be addressed. Blogs give all of us an opportunity to say these things and maybe, just maybe, have someone who can do something about them actually listen, by acting as a sort of megaphone for the greater sentiment of our aggregate group of readers.
How about instead of pointing our fingers at each other, we instead turn our energy toward pointing at the GOP? Because, you know, they have really earned it. And with an election coming up in less than two months, our energy ought to be focused on that…and not each other.
So I thought we could use some time this morning to brainstorm about how to more effectively kick the GOP out of power in the House and Senate. And in state and local races nationwide as well. Let’s talk about things you’ve been doing locally to build Democratic party infrastructure (or what hasn’t been working). Let’s put our considerable brainpower toward something that brings us all together, and lifts us further upward. Pull up a chair…
(Manet’s Rising Tide, oil on canvas, 1873, private collection.)
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Fitz!
Segunda!
Good morning, Christy.
Good Morning Christy.
Have another cuppa joe and relax.
The fun has just started today!
frith!
good morning Christy!
(back to mute mode :-)
Hi medaka! long time no see.
Buenas dias, perritos del lago !
Morning all. I need more coffee. I thought the Manet painting was a lovely one for this morning — hope everyone enjoys it.
Good job as always, Christy — though one you really shouldn’t have had to do this morning, alas.
WAY too much going on out there for us to aim at instead of devoting ourselves to internecine firing parties, dammit.
So I’m with you and Manet … just soon’s I find what I did with my thinking-cap yestiddy and get it back on here . . .
Anybody see victoria toensing on c-span this morning?? Same old stuff!! Guess what?? Victoria wasn’t covert and the left has a spiritual sickness and delussions. UGH!!
If Ben Franklin were alive today he would be a blogger, and a mighty fine one I would add. Not Jefferson though, being of a more reserved and contemplative nature, he preferred to be alone with his thoughts.
The old extrovert/introvert thingy.
Ben Franklin would have been a kick-ass blogger.
We have delusssions spelled with a multitude of s’s!!
Hmmmmmmmmmm…
Liberals are the intellects of the politcal spectrum. Constantly weighing each idea against itself and forming a logical and complete thought.
On that note, I find it bizarre that people of the progressive ilk try to eat their young or their mentors by accusing them of unsubstantiated claims.
It was heartwarming and a foward thinking person that organized this meeting.
Peter Dauo.
You know him. Did you think that he would not have all the bases covered. Why we had such a session of flamethrowing is beyond me.
Yes, Liza desrves a little (or big) spanking. A few words from the FDL gods suggesting a little fact checking would have gone a long way.
It is easy to start wars you see. But who really wins, our true enemy, the Right Wing and their party apparatus. We can not give them ammunition to use against us. WE MUST BE UNITED.
I used to say “HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH?”
Now I say “IT MUST BE A LANDSLIDE”
Christy Hardin Smith @ 8
Beautiful painting. At first I thought it was the American original, Winslow Homer.
I’ve got a spiritual sickness alright, but its origins are Victoria and her ilk.
Re kicking out the GOP: I’m won’t be happy with just winning back the House. I want the Senate too. I’m working to get VA and TN in the “D” column — with money and phone calls and emails.
Just a quick notice – looks like we’ve hit the $20,000 mark on Marcy’s book funding drive.
Good Morning, all… staggering off for coffee… question: who is the lawyer that is on the KO show?
back in a minute…
Good morning, and thanks for this one Christy. Of all the mornings on FDL, Saturdays are my personal favorite.
I could not agree more with your sentiments. And so, just in case the Big Friends of Big Dog are reading this morning, let me say that the Democratic Party needs to be democratic.
Howard Dean has been doing a lot of good things at the national level. But our party, and here I am speaking about our party in the great state of New Mexico, is moribund, and frankly, pathetic.
I honestly do not think the R party is so much better here, as they have about as many problems as we do, it seems. But really, as a party, we should be vetting candidates (yes, I know, not totally democratic, but damn, it might save a few embarrasments, not to mention that we might get better candidates).
We should be building future candidates by supporting young people with potential political fortune.
And for heaven’s sake, we must have ethical and vigorous leadership. I won’t go into the details, but our party is really a mess.
And it should not be thwarting the energies of people who want to be involved, have time and willingness, not to mention the needed skills.
Thanks again, Christy and all the FDL folk. You rock!!
katie Jensen @
9
Katie – please read David Corn’s comments on the Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..29562.html
Good morning Christy, I’ve got the coffee brewing here. So far not much on the activity front. Everything I do has been donations that have been suggested here.
Although there has been some corruption of previously right-wing relatives. After I finished John Dean’s “Conservatives without Conscience” I sent it to my dad (who was appalled that he was agreeing with anyone in the Nixon administration) who then sent it on to the other relatives.
I think it’s a sign of progress that such formerly rabid republicans are completely disgusted with their party.
I missed the K.O. thread yesterday. That is great news! We asked and FDL delivered. Now it’s time we deliver what they ask of us.
CIA Leak Investigation Book by Marcy Wheeler
I know some are waiting for a P.O. box to send a donation. Any word on that Christy?
KO’s lawyer guy… Toobin? is that the guy? last night he said something interesting about dubya’s rush job on the torture legislation – something about (maybe) international organizations bringing charges(?) or action or ??? against Bush… that’s what I thought he said yesterday… but I fell asleep and perhaps I was just dreaming…
haven’t seen one word anywhere on it – so perhaps I imagined it…
oddball at 13 — we had a discussion about Peter having invited a number of folks who couldn’t make it in my first thread yesterday. Knowing Peter as I do (and that he is a Lebanese-American who has a very full understanding of ethnic and racial tensions having lived in Lebanon, for hell’s sakes, during a portion of his lifetime), I went straight to the source and got a forthright answer. I just do not understand why people don’t think to do that first.
Here’s a news flash: every woman has boobs. (Some men do as well, but that’s a whole ‘nother post.)
I’ll bet Karl Rove has boobs.
Reading, and I have to say, participating in last night’s discussion and then going back this morning to read further comments, I was struck by several precedents in the politics of the last ten years. John McCain was defeated in South Carolina with help from a whispering campaign about his daughter’s race. John Kerry was swiftboated on snide remarks about his military service. Those are the two that stand out in my mind.
With the rise in profile of the left blogs that came with meeting with President Clinton, I think I was expecting some sort of attack, and lo and behold, in less than a week, you have not just one, but two attempts to derail the very focused liberal blogs…one attack on a woman’s “true feminism”, the other playing the race card.
It seems to me that one or both could have been motivated by jealousy, yet they both seem to resemble a certain nasty man’s MO and I think it behooves us to stay focused while answering such jibes with truth. There are, after all, enough of us to do both :)
OldCoastie @ 17
Jonathan Turley – teaches at GWU
I’m in earlier than normal today. Extreme cold and rain in northern Utah, so yardwork is out. Working on my 3rd cuppa, and enjoyed the Manet immensely.
I’m extremely disappointed that our one Democratic elected congressman broke with the other house Democrats this week and refused to call for Rumsfeld’s resignation. It is discouraging to live in this reddest of red states. What do I do? I have my blog RedStateBlues, and a small email tree that we use during Utah legislative sessions to try to influence local legislation. Occasional letters to the editor, lots of talking, and never giving up hope altogether.
twolf1 at 21 — to be honest, I haven’t had a chance to even talk with Jane about that lately. She’s been on the road and then we had the meeting to get to, and Fi’s been sick off and on and…well, let’s just say that August and the first part of September have been a blur for me.
I promise to try and get something on it this weekend though — if I can get the time.
lina! Turley! that’s it!! thank you! did you see him on KO last night?
I am headed out later in the morning for some door-to-door in my own precinct. I walked it maybe 25 times in the last month and a half before November 2004, so voters who have not moved know me. I love walking the precinct.
Re: Karl Rove. Huffington had an article the other day about Rove’s gay father. Anyone catch that?
OldCoastie @ 30
I didn’t see it. But Turley is a regular on KO.
Christy
CW says that women are in the blogging minority, so on that front Peter should be praised for including so many women bloggers – and all of the women deserve a very big thank-you.
OC– iirc, Turley did say that there was a potential for up to 30 charges wrt the illegal NSA program and that coupled with the torture junk, dubya could be in for a world of hurt.
(I fervently hope so.)
MEDAKA!
Get yer butt and big ol’ eyes rat over hyeah where I can hug on you, boy! O happy day!!!
((((((MEDAKA))))))
Good Mornin’ Firepups,
Tommy if you’re still here, let me settle my tab from friday Happy Hour. . .and a big fat tip to my fave bartender
AAAH Christy, you’re hitting on something I’ve been dealing with a lot lately –
yeah I know, TMI, but I am 5′ 4″, 110 lbs, with quote big ones unquote. and only recently did it dawn on me that the condescending vibes I’ve received from some otherwise progressive women is due to that – like somehow the IQ goes down as the cup size goes up – whatever !
suffice it to say, my inner smart ass has taken care of that
after seeing similar sentiments in the threads from time to time, have thought this would be the perfect place to have a ‘body image’ thread at some point.
lotus – from downstairs – ‘Southern women who call everybody baby ‘ guilty as charged!
and OMG! Keith @ FDL – I’m with egy – eeeek!
I’ll be sure to bring my best posture*g*
angie @ 33
angie – there was that part, but then – I’m pretty sure – he said something about “international charges”… I thought it was significant, didn’t really understand it and have been surprised that nothing further has been discussed… and what seemed most interesting about the comment was he thought something was coming down really soon… not some far off kinda thing…
there’s a church in L.A. getting investigated by the IRS because they preach peace:
http://www.latimes.com/news/lo…..home-local
There’s been a lot of talk about facism lately. Anyone wanting to know what it looks like, this is it.
OldCoastie @ 36
No transcript available yet ;( Cannot confirm or deny but can only hope.
re boobs: they are considered a commodity where I live (S. Calif.)…… You can pay up to 10K for them. Every third house in my neighborhood contains a plastic surgeon.
angie – where do you find the transcripts? is it on KO’s msnbc site? I’m apparently not seeing those…
WHITEBOOBBLOGGERGATE?
lina @ 38
LOL!
Here OC– Friday shows are not up til Monday, though.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3719710/
Coastie,
An interesting point that was brought up is that this rush to “define” Article 3 is an effort to make previous war crimes retroactively legal, in a CYA attempt to avoid prosecution for violations in international law.
I had to smile when I read that. It reminded me of what my mother said when I started developing: “Don’t be one of those girls who hunches over and tries to hide herself. Keep your back straight and your shoulders squared and be proud of yourself.”
The other thing she said that always stuck with me (she died when I was 13) was a comment she made while watching a news story about a “women’s lib” march. (To preface, I’m the oldest of four sisters.) Mom said: “I don’t like all this bra burning. But you know how your Dad and I always tell you you girls can be anything you want to be? Well, now you really can.”
Snap!!!
OldCoastie @ 23
OC, if your dream made that up, would you mind awfully if I come hang out in it with you? Sure sounds like mighty fine country there . . .
Morning All, I have Boobs, though they hang low these days ha ha, I don’t understand why someone would use race card against Dems, I have many friends of different races, most, if not all love & trust Bill Clinton. JMO
For those who might think the corporate media is hopelessly out of touch, you should know that Katie Couric has started blogging: http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2…..6771.shtml
I was expecting an in-depth look at the burning issues affecting our country and maybe even a little up-close & personal (what is Rush really like?); instead it would appear America’s darling Katie has studied TRex & become a subtle master of parodistic snark. Have they no shame?
lotus – from downstairs – ‘Southern women who call everybody baby ‘ guilty as charged!
Now how did I guess that, cbl?
SMOOCHIES unto you, baby!
OldCoastie @ 39
MSNBC lags about 24 hours or so on them. For a Friday show it’s worse. Look for them sometime Monday.
OT: For those following Bush’s campaign to legalize war crimes, two superb must-read articles got posted this morning:
“Behind the Debate, Controversial CIA Techniques: Interrogation Options Seen as Vital”
By R. Jeffrey Smith, Washington Post Staff Writer (16 September 2006)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01252.html
“Getting with ‘The Program’: Clarity Through Obfuscation”
By Marty Lederman, Balkinization (16 September 2006)
http://balkin.blogspot.com/#115837728275178230
[based on Smith’s article]
Both get at the irony that Bush complains of the vagueness in CA3’s prohibition on “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment.” But Bush admits that CA3 clearly rules out the CIA’s “alternate techniques,” which according to “CIA’s Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described” by Brian Ross and Richard Esposito, ABC News (18 November 2005) http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Inve…..id=1322866 include:
Therefore Bush would “have to shut the program down”:
Bush now wants flexible context-sensitive standards wherein the legality of a technique depends on how badly the information is needed. Ironically, he sees such flexibility in McCain’s Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, which did not succeed in criminalizing the CIA’s secret prisons or the techniques used therein.
OT: Update from one of the Blue America campaigns . .
Woke up this morning and on the front page of my local paper, it was announced that none other than Dubya himself will be in Stockton California for a fundraiser for Pombo. Wow. Dubya himself.
Cheney was here this spring for fundraiser for Pombo prior to the primary. Stockton California!
I have been walking precincts for weeks for McNerney and will keep doing so until the election, but McNerney is way behind on $$$ and now with Dubya coming . . .
So if any of you haven’t yet sent some love out here to CA-11 via the ActBlue pages . . .
Pam in SC @ 45
The MO is attack a person’s strengths..thereby undermining them.
I think Redd’s point that this is not the time to be in a big fight amongst ourselves is EXACTLY it… we have critical work to do… we are perfectly capable of figuring this out without wrecking each other…
Good Morning! Just spent last night talking with one of our state legislators in CT about the need to organize more young people and bring them into the political sphere. We are talking about organizing groups of people who have invested their time in politics for many years. Having these people go out and drum up support for young people’s Democratic groups.
We no longer have the committment of youth that once blanketed this country in the 60’s, and 70’s. What is different now from then?
For myself, I was born into politics. My mom was an active Democrat; still is. But not everyone cuts their teeth on campaign issues and candidates. You learn early how politics affects your life.
The people in my family have been workers; some even ran for office. One served in the state legislation; the rest in Town government. Some just stuffed envelopes. My own children have stumped for candidates in their districts. And, they ALWAYS vote.
Today, the largest voting group in CT is the Independent Party. Most of them are much younger than I am. They don’t participate unless their backs are to the wall over issues that have gone so wrong that they cannot ignore them anymore. Why?
Speaking of boobs I must be one because honestly I don’t get the whole “if we don’t clarify the law to allow torture then that whole torture program thing won’t move forward”.
Is this some kind of Rovian reverse psychology or are Americans that stupid.
lina – lol
after 3 years in SoCal, my college girl (UCLA) fell under the augmentation sway for a while – but thankfully changed her mind
Pam in SC, gravity (and bad lighting) is not our friend
sjvalleygal – as a former resident, keep hoping Jerry’s campaign will remind the valley folk of how often Pombo has stabbed the ag crowd in the back
Remember all of the generals who were taking aim at the Bush administration a few months ago?
Do you think they have gone away? Or, has their ranks swelled.
The most remarkable thing that Bush said at his Pissy Presser yesterday was that he “hopes other nations would adopt the US’ standards”.
If you were a soldier and you had inside information as to what the new US interrogation “techniques” were and Bush was just on TV telling the world that he was hunky dory with you gettting waterboarded, stripped nude, soaked with water, humiliated, smeared with menstrual juice, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Would that be good on your morale?
Question: What would be worse for your morale, that information or Jack Murtha talking about a redployment?
-GSD
btw, gang, today’s Blue America is a great one — Robert Rodreguez from CA-25. :) Howie will be here to chat with Robert at 2:00 ET/11:00 am PT.
suntzu @
15
i had the very same thought (homer). beautiful light in that painting. homer learned a lot from manet. so did hopper i believe….
What we need is simple, so simple that it’s infuriating that we don’t have it, and we haven’t had it since the ‘92 Clinton campaign.
We need a message. Reduced to a phrase or no more than one sentence, a message that communicates what the Dems are about and what the Repubs have done for the last 6 years.
Any top notch advertising firm could create it. The problem is that our party cannot get its act together, agree on it and say it wherever and whenever they are on TV or radio or interviewed for the print press.
Remember ‘94? The Repub message was Dem corruption and they would clean up the Congress. Remember the contract with America? Well, the Dems came up with one a few months ago. Where is it now?
Our problem is that we have incompetent party leadership that does not know how to win elections. The Repubs know how.
And that is why come November, we will not take the House, and certainly not the Senate.
stomp @ 54
rude pundit has an excellent post on this subject:
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/
he says “We’re in the midst of one of the most degrading debates in the history of the nation.”
Christy, there is a bit of disagreement here about what the issue really is. People who were invited, like you, think it’s about inclusion; and people who weren’t invited see it as just the opposite. That’s rather the Democratic Party in a nutshell, isn’t it? Is it to be big-tent or just A-listers? More on my blog…
lina @ 40
And I reckon that any of ‘em who, um, leak outta lina’s neighborhood wind up in Palm Beach living high-wide-&-handsome offa Botox injections (both real and homemade).
lina @
16
toensing. brother. how would she ever figure that out? i thought when you’ve struck the faustian bargain, just fuggedabouddit….
GSD,
just this week, one of the original nine generals; Batiste, came out swinging against the Chimp’s torture moves – can’t seem to find the link this am over at Raw Story
I didn’t see Turley, but from an earlier occassion I think that he is including each 45 day interval that “the program” was renewed as a possible count for the wiretap program.
RE: International (or national, but not this nation) charges – as info has come out, there are certainly grounds. Especially with a situation like the German who was kidnapped and tortured on the basis of “oops” and who our courts have refused to hear. At some point, some court is going to grab jurisdiction and run with it. IMO.
I haven’t followed the kerfuffle, but I gather that Althouse and someone named Liza are upset about a) a lack of representation of ethnic groups and b) that the women bloggers who went had boobs. ? I don’t know Liza’s work, but I have seen the pitiful struggle Althouse has had with the intricacies of both Marbury v. Madison and Motions for Summary Judgment and it could well be that the highest and best use of her talent is to blog about breasts.
Hear hear, LindyH at 26! Yes’m!
Elayne at 61 — look, if they invited every single blogger to every single meeting, it would have to be held at Madison Square Garden. So yes, it is about inclusion, whether people want to argue the point or not — people who weren’t included in the meeting want in, and the people who were at the meeting aren’t saying they shouldn’t be there in the first place and all of the finger pointing in the world doesn’t change the fact that someone is always going to be included and someone is always going to be left out and feeling pissed because they weren’t included. But fighting amongst ourselves over the invitation list — rather than using this moment to build ont he momentum and push forward an even stronger progressive message? That’s just ridiculously short-sighted and plays right into the hands of all the establishment Democratic consultants who are constantly arguing that ALL of us be excluded in the first place.
Thanks for that Lina.
Haven’t made it over to the rude one yet today.
Elayne Riggs @ 61
I don’t mean to be unkind, but I just read your blog post on this subject, and I have no idea what you’re talking about.
(but then, I am in S. Cal. and we’re known more for big boobs than big brains).
Kimster @ 59
i could not disagree more. although part of your comment certainly has elements of truth to it, and we DO have lots of problems, we have an excellent chance of taking the house. i won’t lay money on the senate, sweet as that would be. but even that could happen.
over all, though, losing is a foregone conclusion only if we simply give up as you, apparently have done. can we at least count on your vote?
Redd@65
Not to mention a sure fire way to keep yourself of of many lists…
OldCoastie @
23
Turley last night on KO said Bush is in a hurry to get his way because the Red Cross can examine the prisoners now at Guantanamo and if they have been tortured while in secret prisons things will not go well for Bush
Just a note about grassroots work. When I talk to conservatives and wingers, they are steadfast and sometimes defensive. They are a little concerned with cronyism and corruption in Washington but they see both parties as guilty depending on who is in power. It doesn’t move them to change their views.
What gets them every time is when they are faced with facts about the extent the national debt has increased under Bush and the corrupt companies that benefited.
It’s the money going to the favored and the class warfare that it smells of. Iraq is a concern of course, but it’s the theft of tax dollars that will get them motivated to either stay home in November, or vote the bums out.
I bring this grassroots experience up because it could be a good platform for a strategic national Dem approach.
Elayne at 61 — while we’re at it, “people like you”? WTF is that supposed to mean? I’ve been blogging for less than a year, come from a blue collar family, worked my way through college, graduate school and law school, started my own law firm from scratch, then switched hats to become a prosecutor on principle, spent years of fertility work trying to have my daughter, and have spent a lot of my professional lifetime advocating for the rights of children in at risk families, all the while volunteering in my community.
“People like me” are what, exactly? I started blogging here less than a year ago. Anything I have ever gotten in my lifetime I have earned myself.
o/t
ooohhh lotus,
fyi – used some of the Judge Jackson on some ‘pro torture’ folks yesterday – hoo boy, can you say about face ? I knew ya could
I too haven’t follwed the kerfuffle, but thanks once again Christie for proactively bringing the eyes and ears back to the matters at hand. Of course Clinton would be one of the first to recognize the tremendous think tank offered up by bloggers; receprosity is our friend, eh?
Turley is a conservative. He has been vocal about his opinion that Bush has been breaking the law for quite a while now. He clearly thinks Bush has legal trouble ahead, which is really good news. Bush looks more desperate every day.
Christy — so glad you are back. Good morning.
Wigwam – thank you for the links.
stomp @ 54
Lest we forget – this is exactly what the one trick ponyboy did with the Patriot Act renewal last December.
Feingold has a discreet number of items that the Senate Judiciary committee had pretty unanimously agreed needed to be addressed.
Bush-Cheney-Gonzales screech like preschool girls who’ve had a mouse dropped down the back of theirshirt.
Specter immediately capitulates and goes for renewal without the changes.
Feingold says, nu’uh and actually crafts a few Republicans together and threatens filibuster, but since a recess is coming up says – or we can do a 3month only renewal and work things through.
Bush has meltdown. Threatens that the Sen from Wisconsin is going to cause the whole Patriot Act and everything it has done to make American safe collapse. Rants that he WILL VETO a 3 month extension and then it will be all Feingold’s and the Democrats fault that the country comes apart at the seams.
As I recall, Feingold smiled, said nonsense, and went on.
cbl @ 74
Judge Jackson?
jere – Bush looked frightened yesterday at his “aggressive” presser – that was my impression anyway with all that anger trying to cover up the fear… he really NEEDS his legislation… something’s coming…
for that matter, I think he’s scared all the time and he wants us all to join him… (’course, if I were him, I’d be scared all the time too – being so far in over my head and all)
OldCoastie @
36
TURLY is no BOOB. always great with KO. his point last night re: ‘international charges’ was that the soon to be transferrred to GITMO prisoners that chimpy has been ‘not waterboarding’ will be interviewed by the RED CROSS. Turley suspects that these prisioners will claim to have been tortured ( surprise ) —- one of the most serious of international crimes. so: TURLEY posits, chimpy needs to legalize RETROACTIVELY what they have done to prevent being an ‘official’ international war criminal.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 72
Plus, when you write, I understand what you’re saying.
(Not like reading a George Will column.)
I don’t know Liza’s work, but I have seen the pitiful struggle Althouse has had with the intricacies of both Marbury v. Madison and Motions for Summary Judgment and it could well be that the highest and best use of her talent is to blog about breasts.
Just so.
The primary objective of this voter is to bury right wing, religio, neo-con zealots, corporate greedies and war mongers. Which generally speaking, means defeating Republicans and replacing same with center to left progressive Democrats. Nothing else matters. In this house, constructive discussion of the issues is desired, and indeed essential. Bickering is not.
OC – I thought that about the Lauer interview too – like a fear biter dog. Growls and snarls and lurching with a wild fearfilled eye.
I’ve got to go do outside things, but this afternoon I’m doing LTEs and probablysomething longer than on LTE on the interrogation/commissions legislation.
wonder when the secret prison prisoners are arriving in Gitmo?
Real quick before I go – lotus, celebrating becomes you – you look a year younger than yesterday.
Happy Belated.
Basically what I heard W say yesterday was, “We gotta torcha to keep ‘Mericans safe. If yer not fer torcha, yer for ‘Mericans being attacked. So if ya won’t let us torcha, yer gettin’ attacked. If ya get attacked, it’s yer own fault.”
But I think that bounce from 9-11 is over. Buh bye.
there is something in his eyes, Mary… yup – a dog that fear bites is a good analogy…
I keep thinking that we are so close to things that we don’t pay attention to the long arc of the progressive movement. In so many ways, these times look like the Gilded Age, and the arc it took. I just hope that we don’t have a depression and dust bowl again. At the same time, the speed that the progressive blogosphere has evolved means that change can happen much faster than it used to. In the long view, we need to focus on the milestones of the major elections, but keep our eyes on putting in progressives in every level of government in every state and county in the US. And then, every schoolboard, every local committee, and every media outlet. Can’t be more clear at the moment… more coffee…
ding7777 — The CW to which you refer, that women are a minority in blogging, is old CW. You can find demographics at Pew Internet & American Life site (I can’t pull the right study on this machine, must have a bug with Adobe reader).
kimster — it’s not incompetence as much as it is internecine conflicts between old school Dems and newer grassroots activism that is the root cause of a lack of an umbrella message.
Messages are also much more effective if they are organic; it may not be up to any figurehead leadership, but up to us to develop the message that we need to use to win.
As for specific performance of one leader: I cannot say enough positive things about Dean and the DNC. The 100Actions.com website is wonderful — check it out.
BTW, FirePups, today marks 52 days until the election. Do you know where your democracy is?
Off shortly to go work on developing a database to record canvassing data for our door-to-door efforts. See you out there!
OldCoastie @ 86
14 of them are there. He timed his announcement for right afer they arrived IIRC
Whether there are more? Or some have been disappeared? Or didn’t make it?
Grass is calling -
hmm… prisoners are there? then I wonder when the Red Cross will interview them and make their report… any day now?
shrubya must be in a total panic…
Mary -
Judge Jackson – Chief Allied Prosecutor @ Nuremberg – some great on target comments were posted in the threads this week – slippery slope towards inhumanity, etc.
cbl @ 78
Brava, cbl!
bg @
92
That short attention span and lack of historical knowledge is now working against Bush now htat he has been around for 6 years.
-GSD
Check out the KOS diary that lets air out of the “Rove strategy” theory that this torture blitz is working out to the Torturer in Chiefs advantage.
Christy-you are a gem!!!
I think you do Ann Richards proud- in the grouping of straight talk and wit.
TURLY is no BOOB. always great with KO. his point last night re: ‘international charges’ was that the soon to be transferrred to GITMO prisoners that chimpy has been ‘not waterboarding’ will be interviewed by the RED CROSS. Turley suspects that these prisioners will claim to have been tortured ( surprise ) —- one of the most serious of international crimes. so: TURLEY posits, chimpy needs to legalize RETROACTIVELY what they have done to prevent being an ‘official’ international war criminal.
Does it matter what OUR laws are when it comes to violating the Geneva Conventions?
I am sure that Saddam had laws absolving him of guilt too.
It is not what our laws dicatate, it is what the international consensus is.
-GSD
stomp @
57
No torture, no information. No information, no stopping terrists. Terrists ain’t stopped, yer children die. Simple as that.
BTW, Christy…don’t you get the impression from Novak’s temper tantrum at WaPo and Toensing’s bashing that something in Isikoff’s and Corn’s book must be very dangerous?
Loved emptywheel’s dispatch of Novak, can’t wait to see what you and Marcy think of Toensing and now Corn’s rebuttal.
Definitely blood in the water.
ruffian at 101 — thank you. Back atcha!
MY GOD, Y’ALL — I’M BACK – FUCHSIA HEADER AN’ ALL!
JAMIE, CHRISTY, VG — WHICHEVER WIZARD(S) FREED ME UP AFTER THREE WEEKS IN MOD-HELL, BLESS YOU FOREVER!!!
OK, I’ll try to contain myself. But OBOY OBOY OBOY OBOY OBOYOBOYOBOY!
Now and then I get into email exchanges with an environmental activist in Northern California. I have loads of respect for this man,he’s also an amazing writer.
One discussion we had was about why we fight with each other when there’s so much to be done to fight the insane people running the country and large corporations.
My enviro buddy says it’s because deep down,the powers-that-be that we have to fight scare the daylights out of people(and that should scare us,alot more than it does frankly). And once you start unravelling all the connections and see how big this web of nasty business is,the first instinct is to run. Part of that running away is changing the subject or not allowing certain conversations to even take place.
The conversation came up because I’m working SO hard on facing my fears(I’ve got me a BIG box full of’em,lol). I never even learned to drive or had a licence til I was almost 40,something many people take for granted.I was terrified to drive,a little gift from my mother(my parents would not let me get a licence as a teen when I was much more fearless/ignorant of dangers). One of the nicest things my husband ever did for me was to hire a retired Marine who runs a driving school to teach me to drive and school me on what skills I’d have to learn to pass my driving test. I’m still scared,some 6 yrs later(freeways still freak me out),but I make it a point to get in my car and drive somewhere every day,and sometimes I have to PUSH myself out the door. My driving teacher guy told me that the fear of driving is much more common than I thought. In fact,most of his clients weren’t young people,but mostly women in their mid 20s to their mid 60s. Who knew?
He also told me this: feel the fear and do it anyway. It’s really the only way to get over what scares you.
Some of this infighting and nitpicking within progressive communities may just stem from those types of fears. Or I could be full of it,lol,I don’t know. I’m not saying that’s the whole problem,I know it isn’t. When I look at my own life,many times when I want to address something important that’s not pretty,these kinds of diversions pop up to derail the whole conversation. The final default mode ends up being a personal attack of some sort,either blatant or more subtle. I’m still learning how to deal with this when it happens,trying to think fast on my feet to address the other person’s fear AND still get the topic back on track. But some people aren’t reachable,I’m learning how to not waste my energy on those who simply have no other wish than to stomp my ideas into the dirt. It’s a process I doubt I’ll ever be totally finished with.
Leisler NYC (47). CBS sent out an e-mail invitation to read Kitten’s blog. I replied with a don’t-count-on-me rant and was told to comment at another CBS site. CBS: Corporate Bull Sh—ers!
Re Jonathan Turley. He is billed as a Constitutional expert but was in favor of President Clinton’s impeachment. He is one of the very few who wanted Clinton impeached but now say Bush has legal woes aplenty so that counts somewhat for his previous lapse in expertise.
OldCoastie @
84
Lemming in Chief leads the charge off the cliff.
-GSD
Rayne at 104 — I have been getting the distinct impression that something is up. But having not seen the book as yet, I’m left to speculate as to what that is. My guess is that Rover has his panties in a twist about some revelation or other that makes them look weak or even more dishonest going into the Fall elections, and they are playing defense up front.
GSD -
I think you are exactly right…
Mary @ 83
T’other day, Mary, I linked to Justice Jackson’s Nuremburg summation — with the predictable result among our quality-appreciatin’ littermates.
The dems message needs to be that the Bush administration is in denial. That when they attack (we need to attack the attack because it is still too effective…we need to take the legs out from under their aggressive style to show it as weak and posturing), they are exhibiting signs of a cognitive distortion called projection…our short version would be “spot it, got it”. They accuse liberals of the things they are actually doing and subconciously feel guilt and shame about. The attack is a way to avoid accountability. We need to make the association between attacking and refusing to be held accountable. If we can get the American people to see that when any political pundit attacks openly the questioner…that is a move to avoid accountability.
The dems didn’t do it when Reagan led his attacks. He was my first intro to the style. But Bush and his minions are King of the projection. We have to take the sting out of the very act of attacking dems.
I never had seen that Manet. It does look like Winslow Homer got drunk and capsized his sailboat and snapped off the mast and drowned the sailors and now he can’t paint so clear.
My fave Christy is the annoyed-at-bullshit-and-let’s-set-a-few-things
-straight-shall-we Christy!
Amen! my own anecdotal observations say whenever he digs his little boots in as deep as he did yesterday w/ Gregory, they’re feeling vulnerable
of course it also means The Chimp has only recently been informed “of possible wrongdoing”
dare we dream Turley is right and something is on the horizon ?
Christy — wish there was 2 more weeks between now and the election, so we could slide in Hubris in the FDL Book Salon!!
Wouldn’t that make Rover SQUIRM for us to drive Hubris up the Amazon most popular list?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 12
Suggestions for some future FDL book club:
Ben Franklin: Poor Richard’s Almanac, or Autobiography
Thomas Paine: Common Sense
The Declaration of Independence and The U.S. Constitution
An Angry Old Broad @ 107
As a mammary-free practitioner of bloggery who lives in the NYC area and wasn’t invited to visit the ex-President despite having a larger readership than some of those invited, I gotta say that any jealousy or second-guessing the guest list is kind of petty shit.
To expand on what Christy said, I just hope that whoever from Left Blogsylvania that gets to meet Clinton or anyone represents well. That’s the burden: continually showing those who have power that the blog world is a place of ideas and intellect, not just crazy people in the basement ranting against the sunlight.
So just answer us all one question, Christy: Did you use the right fork?
crap! gotta go
waving to Her Sharkitude !
Rudepundit:
So just answer us all one question, Christy: Did you use the right fork?
Is that the one you stick into it until it’s done?
Rayne @ 111
Thanks for the idea. I just “tagged” it at Amazon LOL
firedoglake (1), iraq war (1)
http://www.amazon.com/Hubris-I…..mp;s=books
Rude One at 119 — good to see you! Mercifully, there was only one fork to use, so I was in good graces there. And I tried my best to be a good, albeit firmly argumentative at times, luncheon companion, which I felt was appropriate given that I was being asked to the meeting in the first place because I am firmly argumentative sort in my blog posts.
Don’t be a stranger around here!
wigwam@103
What I have been hearing the last week or so is that when the CIA is in the room they get what they want to hear as a result of their ‘techniques’
When the FBI is in the room and using humane techniques they get what we need to know.
go figger’
Welcome (back?) to the Rude One!
You carried the torch through the darkness for a long while.
I’ve been reading your badass shit for a long while.
Applause.
I believe those who say Bush and his thugs do not want us to see the horrible condition of those he vehemently denies torturing.
Please, David Gregory, ask his unholiness if torture is getting him any credible information. He will lie but the question will be out there. As it is now, the networks broadcast in livid color his rants about torture which people will think is the answer but there is nothing comparable showing why torture is not the answer. And ask him if he thinks people with terrorist information will be quick to tell us when they might well think we will do to them what we are doing to others. Sputter, sputter.
Rayne @
116
Rayne – let’s add another book to your wish list: I wish a way could be found to squeeze in The Architect (short title) by James Moore and Wayne Slater.
Actually this 7th grade boob/slambook stuff had to happen because 1) few people leave eighth grade entirely and 2) the other side wants to trivialize us. Oh, and who doesn’t like boobs.
suntzu @ 15
Yes, thanks for the Manet, Christy. I really appreciate you sharing your aesthetic with us – paintings, birdies, landscapes, whatever. We should all get on a plane immediately and go see this one of Manet’s in the Musee d’Orsay in Paris. Photographs never do justice to the original, but once you have the original in your mental file cabinet, a photographic reminder is oh, so sweet, and spurs the next art museum visit that much sooner.
Sharkebabe@128
I, for one, never met a boob I didn’t like.
I don’t practice discrimination, sexism or any radical tagging nor do I support it. However, my point is since I do not participate I did not have a clue for a while reading the article today Christy! That struck me… right in the eye ball. It’s my point that I made the other day how we see what we want, focus on all different things but the BIG picture…. and as far as that picture. I am a southern lady ( hahaha) and this is what I thought… ” aren’t those nice girls with nice smiles”…. ” how cool to stand by Billy”…. and so I guess you can see how it took til the third or fourth paragraph to figure why in the world you were talking about boobs LOL> but remember the point ok…. BIG PICTURE is very important… and I think you
snowbird42 @
75
old coastie, snowbird72 (#75):
this isn’t really new. they were talking about this, openly, in ‘02 or ‘03 whenan issue about the international court was high profile. i don’t remember it clearly but i think got milk (?) bolton was part of the blather.
well it got left off… I think you TREX JANE and all know that very well
EDITED BY SITE OWNER
Please do not repost entire articles due to copyright issues. That is what links are for.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 29
I’m sure you know already, given your professional history, but remember – P.O. Box only, no real addresses. Lotta crazies out there.
It might be constructive to look back to the gilded age in the US and compare it with now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_Age
Suntzu at #11: Au contrair, mon frere. Thomas Jefferson was indeed a prolific communicator, eagerly so. He invented one of the first “copying machines”, a device that duplicated his voluminous correspondence, enabling us today to be able to study his writings and musings.
He had, if I remember correctly, two daughters and lots of grandchildren, all of whom lived with him at Monticello. He was sociable and gracious, always entertaining and including even total patriot strangers who dropped in to talk with the great man.
If he was alive today, he would most certainly be a blogger!
Re a Democratic message:
This week I was traveling and intentionally left my laptop home, in order to see just what was passing for news in the MSM world. I was astounded to see that there was not one Democratic leader on any of the morning news shows at all this week to rebut Bush’s outrageous speech on Monday night. Since it appeared, from MSM coverage, that the Dem. leadership message was solely to complain that they didn’t get airtime for a reply, my suggestion for the time when and if they ever decide to get the balls up to demand to get on some shows>
“Mr. President, how DARE you have the unmitigated gall to bring up Osama bin Laden’s name 5 years after he led an attack on our country as a justification for your incompetence.
Five years ago we trusted YOU to find and bring to justice those who attacked our nation. YOU were the Commander-in Chief who allowed bin Laden to escape; YOU were the Commander-in-Chief who did not go after him when he did; YOU were the one who decided that getting Saddam Hussein for whatever reason was more important than bringing Osama ( or Al-Zawahiri or Mullah Omar, for that matter) to justice; YOU are the one SOLELY responsible for any future actions that he or his followers may perpetrate on our soil or on others.
So do not presume to tell the American people about the danger of Osama bin Laden. They know.
Apparently you didn’t.”
How’s that?
mickster @
76
this is a meme that really needs to be driven. that was one of the big rants the “conservatives” were puking up whe Fuckwad did his little foxtrot with that Harriet (?)…. what was that vestal virgin’s name?
dratty at 138, THAT is very fine indeed, and the first DC Dem to stand up and say it is very apt to get my vote for Prez in ‘08!
Mary @
82
God bless Russ. Feingold Now. and Russ Feingold in ‘08 for SURE.
fahrender 139 – or even things like Bush wanting to close I-95 for six hours to go to a Felix fundraiser. My Rush-dittohead dad would NOT have likee…
Justice Jackson’s Closing Address before the International Military Tribunal 26 July 1945
IIRC, lotus was the first to link to Jackson.
sofistic @ 131
And — that period contained a “splendid little war” ginned up by a guy wanting to sell newspapers.
Remember the Maine!
(sounds a little like Saddam has WMD!)
Yes, there are. And it sucks, ’cause I’ve been wanting to mail the Peanut Bird Bingo for months.
You know, as BigDawg works his way through lunching with Left Blogovia, I sure would admire to be in the batch that includes Jesus’ General and drifty. ‘Course, I’d hafta get me a blog first an’ all, but a flowah can dream . . .
karen allen @ 132
Karen, I agree with you; he would have been an extraodinary blogger.
Here is a link to a goldmine of Jefferson quotes.
http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/
And here is one of them.
Rayne @
95
Go, Commander!
Howard Dean, (Mostly) Unsung Hero. He’s the garlic iin Rove’s face.
fahrender 139
Right, it’s the money, and Bushcos theft of it, that should be the basis, or the hook, for the message. Then incompetence, lies, and corruption are messages that will be better received.
So, do you think George W. Torture Boy’s advocacy of torture and of abandoning the Genenva Conventions are getting any play at the Non Aligned Movements meeting in Cuba this weekend?
Count Shrubcula the Waterboarder
-GSD
ruffian @
101
Yessir, don’t mess wif Smithy!
Last night I was here reading and someone said ‘cat fight.’ Our culture encourages these. This particular cat fight was over ‘looks’ and in particular, breasts.
Will we ever EVOLVE? This is so deja vu to me….here I thought the consciousness-raising and the Women’s Liberation Movement of the ’60’s and ’70’s had open people’s eyes. But along came the ’80’s, Ronny, the Moral Majority and one meanass BACKLASH.
It’s so depressing. It just reminds me how entrenched patriarchy is…more wars, more p0rn, more divide and conquer. And so many fall into those traps.
I’m going out and canvass for Sherrod Brown today! Who are you out canvassing for?
OT – but too good not to share. Great letter to today’s Monterey County Herald from Pacific Grove’s M.D. Reitz:
“It’s a shame that George Bush isn’t half the man Ann Richards was.”
*707
lotus @ 106
YAAAAAAY. Didya implement the personal outreach portion of my suggestion? ;)
GSD @
102
Lends credence to “You become what you hate.” don’t it?Rayne @
104
Whooo boy! lurv me some bloody waddah !!!!
lotus @
112
A brilliant stroke, if I may say…..
GSD @ 150
yeah, GSD I think so. I had a thought the other day that for entertainment, some of the leaders could role play Bush and Blair. You know– the talking with food in your mouth after tossing out a ‘yo, blair’, giving a backrub or two and refusing to ask for a ceasefire. Roasting these two could make for some good giggling — there is so much material there. I would venture to say that anyone of the NAM attendees speaks better English than dubya, too.
katie Jensen @ 113
Who will be our Barbara Jordan and Sam Irving?
My mind is wandering to the first month with an “R” in it, and the first crop of blue mussels steamed in white wine, garlic, parsely and butter, served with a crusty bread and making a vanilla pudding pie for my wife, with intense 70-percent cacao melted into the pudding in swirls.
Oaxaca, the revolution today is related to the election “issues” and was called by supporters of Obrador for national independence day, today. It has been coming a while, not just suddenly. Just that today is the day…dies y seis de septiembre.
Sharkbabe @ 114
Whew! I ran and got under the kitchen table when she did that! (duckandcoverduckandcoverduckandcover…..)
Well, they’s boobs and they’s boobs, and these-here ones is the kind I mostly worry about . . .
GSD @ 102
Well said. Der Shrubbenfuhreradministration’s attempts at legislative self-absolution prove three things:
1. They know that what they’re doing violates international law;
2. They expect to be called on it sooner or later;
3. Their plan is the common one of trying to game the system with penny-ante nitpick maneuvers rather than admitting to self-evident responsibility for self-evident crimes. (See also: Slobodan Milosevic; Scooter Libby; every Nazi war criminal ever.)
stomp @ 124
now that has the ring of truth to it…..
stomp @
124
It’s the FBI plus the military against the CIA on that one. Here is a bit more of that ABC report from last year:
I’m not in a position to know whether it works or not, thank god. But most of our valuable information comes from decent citizens, like the person at the London mosque who outed the would-be airline bombers. IMHO, decent people are less likely to go out of their way to protect arrogant people who reserve the right to interpret the Geneva Conventions however they please.
OK,I had a thought last night asI was drifting off (damn ants in thekeyboard! No spacebar half the time):
If BigDog has been reading, has he also been commenting, perhaps in a way that would disguise his “voice”? Maybe someone like, oh,say Ghostman?where is he anyway?
Did you ask him,Christy. if he comments?
Didya implement the personal outreach portion of my suggestion? ;)
Ruuuhhhh, first ya gotta remind me which one we’re talking about, oppers, and I’ll tell ya. So bizzy woohoo-ing, my alleged memory’s more’n-usual impaired just now.
fahrender @ 165
No big surprise. One of the first things that torture apologists have to sweep under the rug is the historical and psychological failure of torture to achieve its purported goals. Apart from the (very valid!) moral issues, torture…just…doesn’t…work.
On the cynical side, though, I doubt that the FBI is completely squeaky clean.
newspaperbrat @ 154
Second both the LTE and the 707, brat! (And is it good to see you again!)
Did you guys read Joe Scarborough column in the WP today? I don’t like the man, and disagree vehemently with his politics, and his characterization of the Democratic party …. but who knew the guy was kinda funny?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00996.html
Save Yourself, Blame Bush
“Of course, the mere suggestion makes some Republican loyalists shudder. Being a faithful follower of Brother Bush has long been synonymous with loving Jesus, supporting the troops and taking a stand against sodomy. But no more. Many of the conservatives who put Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich in power are counting the days until Bush goes to Crawford for good. ….”
Christy, you suggest that this was only the first of meetings with Big Dawg. Do you think that this is the first indicator of the progressive movement beginning to jell into a real, powerful force? It sure feels like it to me.
Any suggestions for me to tactfully criticize a campaign with a boring website (the blog doesn’t blog, no daily updates, not mac friendly)? The candidate is charismatic and really exceptional in person and before crowds. You wouldn’t know it from the ads, the website, the mailers. I used to be in this district and have volunteered with phonebank (boring boiler plate, health care, social security, blah blah). I want to say something like, why don’t you check out some of the other campaign ads, or the Lamont blog, all the Lamont blogs, the the video ads to share, but the message is still criticism that goes: Everyone is doing a better job than you guys.
The Rude Pundit @
119
Rude Pundit! Fuck yeah!
…but I have quite had it with the kerfuffles that keep threatening to take our eye off the real work going into November.
Oh, you mean like wasting several hundred terabytes on Lieberman while Bushco continues to plunder unabated? You mean like attacking one of the few Dems with any real power and seniority at the expense of ignoring the atrocities of the real enemy?
Doesn’t matter. The party is split now, Lieberman will likely win and you will have smoked huge chunks of your lives for nothing.
errorhandler @ 175
CT: it doesn’t just mean “conspiracy theorist” any more.
1,265 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith:
Good mornin’…thanx for the wake-up slap. My empty-nest partner who has boobs is away at a professional conference so I’m jest clankin’ around here this AM like a bag a bones but I’ll respond for her to the flyin’ wedge faux concern about real feminism… Kate says: “What the fuck??!!!
But seriously, don’t let ‘em distract and mis-direct the efforts of the progressive movement blogs. I worry that the old tactic of sendin’ agent provocateurs to stir dissention and conflict just when populist movements are finding common voice and building communities of interest may have some lasting effect. Please remember that every parcel of time-space occupied by responding to this bullshit is magnified by the compressed time-frame of this election. Folks like me are hoping voices like yours can get back on message and spaces like yours can get back to providing sanctuary for progressive thought and planning.
I know some of us raised the cooptation issue the other day with regard to the meeting with the Big Dawg but that was just an honest concern expressed to keep us all vigilant…we rely on you and yours and maybe sometimes we take you for granted, but don’t let ‘em distract you for one second.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, YA DON’T HAFTA FIGHT ALL OF ‘EM AT THE SAME TIME, GAL, WE’VE GOTCHER BACK!!!
sofistic @ 160
Now that’s just mean widdout recipes (and source for 70-percent cacao) included, sofistic. And us all know you ain’t mean . . .
;-)
errorhandler @
174
Lieberman is a key cog in the “Bush plunder machinery”. It is that simple.
-GSD
Got a lovely screed in the mail from the NRCC re: Bachmann (R-Hades) vs. hometown hero Patty Wetterling (D-MN06).
Michelle Bachmann is bad news. Look for Patty Wetterling here:
http://www.actblue.com/page/patty06
katie Jensen @ 113
You are exactly right. I tried to cover this topic at the end of the Late Night thread, but hadn’t had nearly enough copy to be coherent.
The Repugs are understanding marketing and they’re not afraid to headline their arguments with big verbal billboards: Smoking gun/Mushroom cloud; Iraqis stand up/We stand down; The Battle for civilization.
And it works. Those phrases can’t repeated in media sound bites and headlines and from one Republican spokesmeister to another. And they stick.
When was the last time a Democrat framed an argument in a phrase that was actually memorable?
Like, AmeriScare — the Republican campaign strategy for winning in November. They don’t have any solutions, so they’re literally gonna scare up votes.
Or, Halliglutton is ripping off the American taxpayers and the president doesn’t care. to [Yes, I used the word Halliglutton in aprevious comment. I love it. It says it all.]
I just think we have to frame the argument in a way that put Republicans on the defensive in stead of acting like a bunch of mealy-mouthed Melanies all the time.
Balrog @ 180
Silly me, I thought ballots were still secret. How would Bachmann’s campaign know when Wetterling did or did not vote?
errorhandler @ 175
you think the Lamont-Lieberman race split the party? You need to get out more.
Some of us can multi-task, i.e., supporting a conservative Dem in a red state (Ford) and a progressive Dem in a blue state (Lamont).
As to the Big Dog, frankly his coziness with Bush and the Bush Crime Family Evil Empire gives me much pause.
Bill is the new Bush child according to Poppy.
Unless he starts beating the drums against the Caligula Crawford soon, I will look at him as a co-collaborater just like James Carville. NOT to be trusted, ever.
-GSD
Joe is the WH’s candidate in CT.
There are only 100 U.S. Senators.
Please, by all means educate me, in what way is Joe a Democrat? Was his Alito vote part of the secret handshake?
In CT we’re talking about one of the blueest states in the country. If Joe lived in NE, we’d give him all the slack we reserve for Ben Nelson.
off to Louisville here … work meetings, sigh …but can’t wait to catch up once I arrive … see you all later
Christy: Nowhere in her post does Liza blame Jane for the lack of black/Latino bloggers at Clinton’s Harlem meeting. Her criticism of Jane is limited to the Lamont campaign.
Siun @ 186
bon voyage siun. remember, no lip gloss on the plane.
fwiw, all the Conventions and treaties and the laws (like the War Crimes Act) that we are signatory to or have enacted were born of terrible crimes and horrors that humans perpetrated on other humans. Most of the time, we don’t think too much about them except as a comforting reminder of how far we have evolved as a species and that we have learned from our mistakes. In this time of conflict and because of the manipulation of 9/11 by this administration and politicians, all of a sudden they are trying to tell us that the “GWOT” is different and every law is quaint. NOTHING is different now except our abhorrent behavior and our intentional disregard of history.
“Liberal Bloggers,” “Democrat Bloggers,” “Progressive Bloggers” – I don’t much like any of those monikers even though each is sort of true. It’s a bit of a trap though, given the ad hominem addiction of the “Right Wing Bloggers.”
How about “The Independent Bloggers?”
New thread.
Boobs, brains and (metaphorically) balls…Not a bad combination.
Now let’s get on with business. This was an important event, keep building on it and don’t get distracted. The new interactive media can be for the progressive movement what talk radio was for the right wingers, only better. No “dittoheads” here, but people who think for themseves and can exchange and build on their ideas.
Someone show me the light if I’m wrong on this. On the most important issues facing us, Iraq, the Palestinian problem, foreign policy in general, I see very little light shining between President Bush and Senator Hillary Clinton. Why is this woman the front runner for the Democratic presidential nomination for 2008?
lotus @ 173
OK, Lotus, since I am off topic anyway, here is the source of the 70 percent cacao: Cote d’ Or, (without the proper accent marks), “Degustation, Intense 70 percent cacao, Belgian Dark Chocolate Confection.”
For the steamed mussels, about 2 pounds mussels (blue mussels here on the west coast), about 350 Ml white wine of your choice (but not too sweet), about a quarter cup diced garlic cloves, a handful of parsely, half stick of butter, salt and pepper to taste. Put everything into a large pot an steam until the mussels open. Drain out the juice into a large bowl and put into dipping bowls alongside the mussles or put the mussles into large serving bowls and pour the juice over the mussels. Get your favorite crusty artisan bread and break off chunks for dipping. Is that good enough to whip up a batch?
For the pie, I am just going to use a standard vanilla pudding package and put in a pre-made shell and top with whipped cream.
Before I go a minute longer, a great big public
THANK YOU
to all mods and any others I’m not aware of who suffered through my recent indisposition with me:
Jane, Christy, *ilson, Anne, VG, and Mommybrain (that I know of), your efforts and patience were my only lifelines, and you can’t know what they’ve meant to me.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 193
she’s only the front runner in Chris Matthews’ mind. Any polling done on this subject is based purely on name recognition. Don’t worry. She won’t make it past the third primary.
Christy,
Bloggers are invited to confer & brainstorm with an ex-president, and all that some people can think to comment about the position of someone’s breasts in a photo, or the demographics of the group? Good God, I thought the folks on this side of the great divide could understand that those kinds of comments are judgmental and divisive—sort of like comments made by r e p u b l i c a n s!
I was so encouraged when I heard about the bloggers being invited to meet with Clinton. It seems that since the Yearly Kos meeting, the progressive blogs have been gaining ground. Christy, Jane, and all the other leading progressive bloggers have been working so hard to get the word out and to compensate for the news vacuum and right-wing spin of the MSM. Hope the “blogees” can focus and use the few weeks up to the Nov. elections to focus on the goal.
FWIW – If people want to see perfectly posed pictures of uptight, TA, Stepford type people, they can always check out photos of the Bush clan, etc.
JaneKnowles @
186
Because I did not link to any African-American Connecticut bloggers.
Maybe you would like to spend some time exploring the veracity of that particular assertion, Jane?
‘I don’t know about everyone else, but I have quite had it with the kerfuffles that keep threatening to take our eye off the real work going into November.’
Thanks, Christy. Thank you. While I was reading about the ‘kerfuffle’ I was also reading about the president of the United States fighting to make torturing humans to death legal. As Cenk Ungyar put it so well, ‘this guy just loves torture, he can’t get enough of it.” And I then I read how cheney and rumsfeld had a new Directorate on Iran, composed of the same people on the Directorate on Iraq– and that they were building a case for bombing based on statements by Ghorbanifir, the Iran Contra aarms dealer and a shadowy Iranian exile group called ‘Mujahedeen Khalq.’ It’s Groundhog Day– and we can’t afford to fight among ourselves… please people. It’s all scary, very scary.
http://www.realcities.com/mld/….._p_strobel
Wigwam @ 165
I don’t buy that “the CIA” is in favor of the Bushiswhacked approach. I do believe that you had some, like Kofer Black (SP?)(who has since bailed right – before he got a chance to have his ID linked to the crimes he thought were ok?). No way would Suskind and Risen et al have gotten all the info that they did get unless there were people on the CIA not on board.
Hayden, though, already is looking at so many felonies and such a disgrace of his uniform for misrepresenting to Congress and to the American people, that he’s going wherever the few people who can save him send him. The only shred he’s got to cling to is that as despicable as their approach is – at least he is finally doing something to try to protect the people who worked for him and went way out on a limb to become criminals and felons just to accomodate he and Bush.
Unlike DOJ, where the institution is fine and the people failed, the CIA has been systemically attacked as an institution (and was always structured to be an inherently risky institution) and Tenet allowed it to become a failed institution – but with a lot of people who were not failures. Remember – it is the CIA that DID almost get Bin Laden. Presidential failure notwithstanding.
imofwiw
EvilDrPuma @ 181
Information is available IF you vote (or not), not HOW you vote. The campaign I volunteer on has a data base used to create phone banking lists with info like name, address, phone, party ID, age, and gender. That info has to have come from the county board of elections. For example, I am currently calling “Prime Dems” – registered Democrats who voted in at least 2 of the past 3 national elections.
wigwam@166
What I read was that the guy (I forget his name) that gave up Khalid Sheik Mohammed was tortured by the CIA and got squat. They handed him off to the FBI who stuck him in a hospital, treated his wounds, fed him, cleaned him up a bit and he sang like a bird and thats how they got Khalid Sheik Mohammed to begin with.
The guy that gave up the London “bombers” was waterboarded and he gave up every name he could remember including his own family who were then promptly released after their arrests.
That whole London bomber plot turns out to be nothing at all. Turns out that the liquids they were talking about need to be mixed for at least 5 hours with constant agitation to form crystals that need to be dried for another couple of hours before you can get the materials to make any explosives. Still trying to figure out how you set up your own little chem lab on an airliner.
Lawsy, sofistic, thank you — and I reckon you’ve got everybody’s permission to go off topic like that any time you want!
At midnight on the 15th, everyone in Mexico goes into the street with fireworks and shouts: Viva Mexico! Viva Mexico! Viva Mexico!
So Viva Independence Day, and my grandest hopes for a future for the peasant class, the artists and writers, the farmers, the weavers, the grandmothers swaddling their precious grandchildren, the glorious people of Oaxaca.
Cofer Black– now top dog at Blackwater. ugh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cofer_Black
1,265 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Lotus:
Bless your heart, good mornin’ you always make my day!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET ‘EM IN YER YARD!!
lotus, you’ve got mails.
Hmmm, Just getting here, but what’s all this talk about great boobs?
I love boobs, especially great boobs.
Rude!! Wonder what your table would look like?
Wouldn’t it be great to have a table that included Rude, Drift, Dig, Steve, Justin, Rozen and Wolcott?
Good god, Lotus is sprung?
RIGHT BACKATCHA, NORSKE!
I be sprung as of about an hour ago, meta — happiest hour I’ve had in years, dahlin’!
I also note from the picture that she has a nice smile and white teeth. Don’t you know that feminists don’t smile and don’t brush their teeth?
JaneKnowles at 186 — nowhere in my post do I mention Liza. You must have me confused with someone else.
Oklahoma kiddo @
192
One reason might be how much the Republicans are reinforcing that impression. How much money would you guess that Karl may have spent on creating that impression? Your obsession with her isn’t slowing her down. But her candidacy is not a foregone conclusion. She may even decide, herself, to stay in the Senate and build her powerbase there. it would be a lot less grief for her personally and much more probable that she could do this successfully. Hillary is, as we know, a fairly conservative, play it safe type. So, a base in the Senate strategy is very plausable…..
After all this talk of boobs, I may have to go back to hunching over lest my “stance” be misinterpreted.
Stomp – I hadn’t seen any of what you have about the London plot – interewsting info. If you run across any links, please remember me.
Part of what Bushco have done is to destroy trust and credibility on so many levels – that filters through on intelligence too. Say you are a Muslim and think you may have some information. You want to get it to someone, but look at the situation Bush has created.
What if you go to intelligence in your country – which cooperates with Bush. Who isn’t going to be scared to death that they will think there are “ties” (or worse yet – what if you did have some old ties, before you knew as much, or have a family member with ties). So what if they take your info and 1) decide you may have more, so it’s time to blackhole and torture you; 2) decide a neighbor, imman, family member, etc. may have info and you end up responsible for them being kidnapped, black holed and tortured; 3)you got something wrong, but when you discover that they have already taken someone and kidnapped, black holed and tortured them; 4) they come back to you wanting you to get more info and threaten to take you or your family and blackhole, torture, etc. unless you participate etc. etc. etc.
People who think a little more human intel would be good – how do you get it with what Bush has crafted? People know foreign govts are handing people over to him and they don’t trust their own govts – People know that with Padilla, Bush is saying he can scoop up Americans and blackhole/torture them anytime he wants. Why would anyone ever voluntarily walk into an office or pick up a phone or make any effort, whatsoever, to hit any radar – when he’s created that situation?
Stomp – I hadn’t seen any of what you have about the London plot – interewsting info. If you run across any links, please remember me.
Ditto
meta @ 208
and Bilmon, a national treasure….
Here’s my long term concern. And probably EPUd so it will not matter.
At the present time, I and the blogs I read and (very occasionally) comment on are on the outside looking in. Sighting corruption, lies and mendacity are our forte. What happens when we are part of the inside looking out? Do we drop our criticism of those in power because, well, they’re our guys? And to do so would diminish their power (and by extension ours)? I would hope not, but then again I wonder if my mindset is permanently set in the suspcious, sarcastic level and I would be truly unable to retool to become a defender of the status quo. I know this is a bit premature, but I think we can all predict that at some point the Republicans will be thrown out and if so, how do we conduct ourselves when that happens? There was plenty that Clinton did or didn’t do that I was unhappy about and I was not shy about expressing my unhappiness. But does that still work for the present day, or will it operate to insure a more rapid Republican comeback?
This is not as well-stated as I would like but its Sat and I haven’t had my coffee yet here in the upper left hand corner of the map. It’s a big picture issue and one worthy of more thought.
moe 99:
the party in power Always needs to be scrutinized. Vigilantly. And IF the Democrats get back in power we must scrutinize them at least as well as we do the Republicans. But, first things first, as I always like to say.
fahrender @ 219
Entirely true. I like to say, and I think Jefferson would agree, that any government and any political party can only safely exist on permanent probation. However, right now, it is the Republicans who are out of control.
OldCoastie @ 23
Turley (?) I think, said that now that the 14 terror suspects have been moved to Gitmo, they will have access to the Red Cross, who will be interviewing them about their treatment. He indicated that this could happen in the next few days. And he suspects that they will disclose that they have been subject to waterboarding etc. – and that this will lead to further charges against chimp. I’m not sure that he said international charges, but perhaps. He did say something like chimp is scrambling with this legislation to head this off and minimize damage.
hoosierville @ 25
Well, he’s got the chimp.
fahrender @ 213
“Your obsession isn’t slowing her down.” Just curios. To who’s “obsession” are you referring?
Kimster said:
I think TeddySanFran covered that pretty well:
Had Enough?
Tits and progressive bloggers– what could possibly be better?
Count me in !
Great handle, global yokel — nice beat an’ ya kin swang to hit!
;-}
Sheesh! What do we need right-wing bloggers for, when progressive ones do their work for them?
Of course, it’s not that dissimilar to the reaction Peter Daou got when he announced we was going to work for Hilary Clinton. Lots of accusations of selling out, etc., etc.
Does anyone think that this meeting would have happened (whether or not Clinton reads blogs) if Daou had not been on the scene? He deserves some appreciation.
The Rude Pundit @
119
Ahhhh I’m happy to see that I’m not the only one heartened by the Rude One in our midst…having RO post on FDL is like a fine cabernet and the best dark chocolate…or a rock opera…or pearls and leather. It’s the perfect unexpected combination.
To the proprieters: you run a great blog, but please stop denying that there was a problem: there were no African-American or Latino bloggers at the meeting. The fact that Peter Daou invited some, who declined, doesn’t change the fact (after all, he could have kept inviting more if it were considered important to have minority representation), so it’s wrong to accuse anyone of not doing fact-checking. Mr. Daou works for Hillary now; calling him and asking him for a comment is to ask him for his spin. The only relevant fact is the number of people who showed up.
Let’s face it, we frequently point out the lack of diversity of the Republicans, and probably wouldn’t hestitate to point out, in a picture of George Bush meeting an all-white bunch of bloggers, how white and exclusive the Republicans are. Had a right-wing blogger said that we should have called up Rove or Tony Snow and had him set us straight, we would have laughed.
To avoid this kind of thing in the future, the next big publicized sit-down must not look this way, and I suggest to you and the other big-name progressive bloggers, for your own reputations, that you just tell Bill that if he and Hillary put together another all-white blogger gathering, in Harlem at that, that you won’t come. If it’s two or three bloggers it’s OK, but twenty white people? Come on.
Oh yes, I know, there were some gay people, and that’s great. But the party has a real problem; it just assumes that it can count on minorities voting Democratic even though they are not given a seat at the table.
Also, I understand that many bloggers objected to the off-the-record format. Fine. Peter Daou, if you are reading this, you could hold two sessions, and tell the bloggers, like Steve Gilliard, who don’t believe in going off-the-record with politicains, that they are welcome to attend the on-the-record portion.
Joe Buck — you got a problem with Clinton’s first meeting with bloggers?
TAKE IT UP WITH CLINTON.
karen allen @
137
Thank you Karen Allen, my thoughts exactly!
Not only would Thomas Jefferson be a blogger, but I think it is safe to say he would have been most enthusiastic about blogging! I think I remember reading that he invented his copy machine because mail took so long to be delivered, and he wanted to remember what he said in his own letter when he received a response.
I can just imagine his delight at having an device that provided him with virtually instant communictation!
How he found the time to do everything he did never ceases to amaze me. Reminds me of some folks here at FDL, come to think of it.
Call me a cynic (you wouldn’t be in error) but I believe all this means is that the big dog has a wife who wants to be the Democratic nominee in 2008 and you (popular liberal bloggers) are a means to that end … nothing more.
In the interest of full disclosure, I have to admit that I never voted for Clinton. However, I did so knowing that I lived in a state where those electoral votes were safely in his column both elections (also, I did not vote for either Bush or Dole but rather wrote in Jimmy Carter both times in protest – I gave him Pat Schroeder of Colorado for a running mate in ‘96).
I will also admit that his presidential performance (Lewinsky issues aside) was better than I anticipated.