I’ve written before of the wingnut husband of Kate O’Beirne who was responsible for oversight of so much of the reconstruction in Iraq, but not much has appeared in print about him up until now. As we eagerly await the release of Robert Greenwald’s film Iraq for Sale a very telling article about Mr. Ole 60 Grit has finally appeared in the Washington Post, courtesy of Rajiv Chandrasekaran from his book Imperial Life in the Emerald City. It shows quite clealry why you, me and every American — nay everyone who has had their lives touched by this disastrous war — should be outraged and calling for Congressional oversight:
After the fall of Saddam Hussein’s government in April 2003, the opportunity to participate in the U.S.-led effort to reconstruct Iraq attracted all manner of Americans — restless professionals, Arabic-speaking academics, development specialists and war-zone adventurers. But before they could go to Baghdad, they had to get past Jim O’Beirne’s office in the Pentagon.
To pass muster with O’Beirne, a political appointee who screens prospective political appointees for Defense Department posts, applicants didn’t need to be experts in the Middle East or in post-conflict reconstruction. What seemed most important was loyalty to the Bush administration.
O’Beirne’s staff posed blunt questions to some candidates about domestic politics: Did you vote for George W. Bush in 2000? Do you support the way the president is fighting the war on terror? Two people who sought jobs with the U.S. occupation authority said they were even asked their views on Roe v. Wade.
Yes, because that really will determine whether you can build a bridge or restore clean water to blighted cities. No wonder things are going so swimmingly.
Many of those chosen by O’Beirne’s office to work for the Coalition Provisional Authority, which ran Iraq’s government from April 2003 to June 2004, lacked vital skills and experience. A 24-year-old who had never worked in finance — but had applied for a White House job — was sent to reopen Baghdad’s stock exchange. The daughter of a prominent neoconservative commentator and a recent graduate from an evangelical university for home-schooled children were tapped to manage Iraq’s $13 billion budget, even though they didn’t have a background in accounting.
Okay, sit down and think about this for a minute. Breathe. We’re stuck in a disastrous Bush/Lieberman war we can’t extricate ourselves from, and the reconstruction that just might have led Iraq into self-sufficiency was turned over to a bunch of 24 year-olds whose only qualifications were their anti-abortion sentiments.
Are you outraged yet? Because I know I am.
The decision to send the loyal and the willing instead of the best and the brightest is now regarded by many people involved in the 3 1/2 -year effort to stabilize and rebuild Iraq as one of the Bush administration’s gravest errors. Many of those selected because of their political fidelity spent their time trying to impose a conservative agenda on the postwar occupation that sidetracked more important reconstruction efforts and squandered goodwill among the Iraqi people, according to many people who participated in the reconstruction effort.
Keep breathing. That’s good. Don’t hyperventilate.
Endowed with $18 billion in U.S. reconstruction funds and a comparatively quiescent environment in the immediate aftermath of the U.S. invasion, the CPA was the U.S. government’s first and best hope to resuscitate Iraq — to establish order, promote rebuilding and assemble a viable government, all of which, experts believe, would have constricted the insurgency and mitigated the chances of civil war. Many of the basic tasks Americans struggle to accomplish today in Iraq — training the army, vetting the police, increasing electricity generation — could have been performed far more effectively in 2003 by the CPA.
But many CPA staff members were more interested in other things: in instituting a flat tax, in selling off government assets, in ending food rations and otherwise fashioning a new nation that looked a lot like the United States. Many of them spent their days cloistered in the Green Zone, a walled-off enclave in central Baghdad with towering palms, posh villas, well-stocked bars and resort-size swimming pools.
It’s a vision of a world run by Jonah Goldbergs, the idyll of the mediocre and the entitled, fueled by wingnut welfare and the complete detachment from reality that created this untenable disaster. Yes, this is what an NRO universe would look like. They got everything they wanted and all the money they could burn to enact their grand schemes, and the result is — well, they speak for themselves really, don’t they.
Please read the entire article, because I’ll be linking to it again and again if the time comes and Congressional investigations actually become a possibility. But if it hasn’t been clear before, it should be now — this is your government on drugs.



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fitz
Criminal negligence at it’s finest. and whow suffers the iraqis and our troops
Rajiv Chandrasekaran!
paragraph 1: typos. “in responsible for”, clealry for clearly.
Fabu post. Will be much-linked.
disgusted though I am, suprised I am not.
criminals.
The Pulitzer committee’s gonna have a whale of a time this year, I’m thinking. SO much muck to rake and miscreancy to hound . . .
Gambinos indeed. What happens when you turn the entire government into a patronage machine.
EPUd from end of prev thread: A link to a post containing a small (20K) bandwidth light bit of artwork re: torture insanity.
(feel free to use it: Right-click to save it, and upload it wherever you will. Please don’t hotlink it, I’ve set up my server to disallow that)
Is the great Uptown titty panic over yet?
;>)
I think these are their secondary qualifications. The primary “in” is their pedigree.
We’ve reverted, under this King George, to the old British practice of the aristocracy purchasing commissions for their non-primogenitur sons. Often, experienced officers and men had to follow the orders of an 18-year-old Lord Bigbottom whose purpose was to look good in uniform and collect some prize money. Not to mention, enjoy the genuflexion of his inferiors and solidify the class mythos of bred superiority.
The hell if such practice deplete the national treasure, and who needed a middle class anyway? Demned shopkeepers thinking they have the right to woo our women!
We are on the road to pre-Revolutionary social organization. You can see the signs everywhere when you aren’t blinded by the belief it could never happen.
Jane is on the case.
I pitty Mr. 60 Grit when you get done with him. There’ll be nothing left but his empty shoes.
Jeebus, Jane, how d’we keep our sanity while reading a whole book full of passages like this?
And here I thought the Nixon years were as crazy-making as I could stand.
I’ll repeat what I said in a previous thread: When your policies are based purely on fantasies and political calculations, competence and loyalty are contradictory values. And we know which takes precedence for Republicans.
darkblack @ 9
It was a right wing conspiracy. Ann Coulter was envious.
looseheadprop @ 11
There’s nothing Jane can do to him that’s more horrible than what he has to face in the bedroom.
Why else do you think he jumped at the chance to screw Iraq?
Very soon now Uday and Kusay will be captured and things in Iraq are going to be wonderful!
darkblack, I’ve never known any titty panic to be over yet.
Dunno what it is about titties that panics so many folks and scares so many horses . . . but well, there you go.
Would it be too mean to call Jim O’Beirne “Ole Toothpick Dick?” The inevitable result of too many years of … you know.
op99 @ 18
How about “Ol’ Smooth ‘N’ Shiny”?
op 99
full-out-on-da-flo’ 707
It’s always the same damn thing with Bush and his henchman-handlers. This hubristic insistence that loyalty trumps competence or qualification is exactly the same political “theory” that gave us Brownie running FEMA, Chertoff running Brownie, Rumsfeld trying to fit round pegs into Pentagonal holes, and Condoleezza Rice serving as the U.S.’s most senior diplomat when she isn’t out shopping for shoes. It’s the rock from beneath which Bush dragged Roberts and Alito. Ultimately, it may be the same premise that gave Bush the GOP nomination (not that they passed over any Lincolns to do it).
EvilDrPuma @ 21
Because if they hired someone competent, they might actually say, “That’s a really stupid idea – we shouldn’t do that.”
this makes me physically ill:
Eli @ 22
We’ve all seen what happened to Clinton appointees who stuck around long enough to say, “That’s a really stupid idea – we shouldn’t do that.” Haven’t we?
Further outrages, go to http://atimes.com/ and read Syed Saleem Shahzad.
Unbelievable. I hope this gets some MAJOR tee vee coverage
angie @ 23
That is because you are an individual of intelligence and good sense. Under this administration, it’s very easy to confuse intelligence and good sense with bulimia.
Cozumel @ 26
Not bloody likely.
Remember al QaQaa?
Ned goes negative.
http://atrios.blogspot.com
Positively hilarious!
Eli @ 28
Heh. Two words.
Keith Olbermann ; )
I never thought I would hate a president more than I hated Tricky Dick……Gawd, I miss him!
Cozumel @ 30
Keith rocks, but he’s just one guy. He’s kinda like Froomkin at the WaPo.
Naomi Klein wrote an excellent article on this subject in Harpers, published in 2003, located here.
It does not mention the role of Mr. Thats Gotta Hurt.
Jane sez: Keep breathing. That’s good. Don’t hyperventilate. But…OMFG.
What passes for wisdom in deecee would say this is old news, we need to stop dwelling on the past.
James O’Beirne’s name (and job description)is one of those Fog facts – information that’s out there, without context, waiting for a structure to frame our outrage. Jane has begun the framing.
I so look forward to the day when these people are put in the stock in the public square. One of the few times I wish I had a penis…
Hey, you know, I knew Jonah Goldberg in college, and while quite nutty for our fair liberal arts college, he is now really nutty.
This pisses me off to no end also.
Any potential employer who asks that type of question (religious preference and voting record) in an interview should be fired and or in court.
Ole Sixty Grit should never be allowed to sit in front of a camera (are you listening tweety?) without full disclosure. Especially when discussing Iraq or well, anything.
Going to spotlight tweety if he’s listed.
“Those who know Mr. O’Beirne intimately describe him as very polished.”
I like it, Balrog!
Hey, gotta question I been meaning to ask you New Englanders. To my suthun ear-petals, you locals always pronounce “Lieberman” as “Lieb’man” — or maybe with just about a quarter of an “uh” between those syllables. Am I hearing that right?
Eli @ 36
Those who know Mr. O’Beirne intimately are also easily confused with bulimics.
All I’ve gotta say is, good thing punaise is still on sabbatical.
lotus @ 37
Is that an accent, or just a decision that Holy Joe isn’t worth three whole syllables?
op99 @ 18
Once my roommate and I were being subjected to heavy breathing (and worse) phone calls. One night, on a whim, I called out after I answered (right in the middle of a big heavy breath): HEy, Jane, it’s NeedleDick the BugFucker again. Wanna talk to him?” He never called back.
Those who know either O’Beirne intimately have my condolences, whether they deserve’m or not.
Best essay of the year. Very well done.
Mommybrain’s always had such a way with words.
kaBOOM! went N.D. BugFucker . . .
Balrog @ 29
Is that Maxine Waters in the “and so do we” tag?
It was a Gold Rush. It was nothing more than a Gold Rush for well-connected Republicans.
Bush wasted the first six months after the fall of Baghdad by allowing a privatizing bonanza for his cronies, contributors and even neocon administration figures like Richard Perle. Despite all the rhetoric and all the promises, there were no WMDs to be found which destroyed one reason for the war but democracy-building was a joke in the first six months which made mockery of that reason. These fools didn’t think the Iraqis noticed. An insurgency, terrorism, discontent and anger grew while Republicans pursued their get rich schemes. And then these clowns let Iraq slip away into chaos. That’s the narrative. And it’s the truth.
This kind of wingnut welfare is what gives “government bureaucrats” a bad name. The article sums it up in three fast paragraphs:
On the other hand, maybe the problem isn’t with Bush and O’Beirne, but the RNC. Why can’t the RNC get a better quality of contributors? Then we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Mommybrain @ 41
Such a vulnerable topic for the poor dears.
On a totally unrelated topic, how’s Luke doing in the new school?
Eli @ 19
Ol’ Sixtie’s Grift
Mr. Perfidy
Mr. Bait-n-Faith
darkblack @
9
No I think the terror alert has gone to red because Jessica’s boobs got within 60 feet of the Clenis.
You’d think Secret Service would be all over that.
darkblack @ 9
Apparently not.
Mommybrain @
42
Oh jeebus Mommybrain, I’d totally forgotten about that. That was a punch line from college I never knew the joke to.
But it describes a lot.
What amazes me is that I heard all of this before — last frickin’ year — and it hardly gets play in the “Liberal” press. But then the over-bloated Democrats sucking off the teat of the government and the lobbyist have not done a good job seizing the moment on something like this either. How depressing!
Well, if this doesn’t let murkans know that the rethugs cannot govern or be trusted with your money anywhere, i don’t know what will.
Hey, you rethugs that want to send more kids to serve in this illegal war that you so blindly and ardently support, how do you feel now knowing that if you just had more ideology and money and connections alla them coulda been hanging out with the true believers in the Green Zone– you know, supporting the troops and making sure democracy works.
I am pissed beyond belief. Thanks very much Jane for posting on this.
Thank you, Rajiv Chandrasekaran most sincerely.
OT but guess where the former President was today while dubya is throwing tantrums and committing torture?
sad but beautiful picture at the link:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14865492/
wonder who the chimp will send to represent him???
angie @ 55
An *ex*-cabinet secretary.
PSA – tornado on the ground near Sioux Falls, S. Dakota. town of Montrose in it’s path. Take shelter if you are in the area.
angie and Eli, if they’d sent Ann Richards to run the CPA, I bet Sergio DeMello would still be alive today.
lotus @ 58
*Just* Sergio DeMello?
Jane Hamsher @
53
Oh, shit, Jane. We were roommates in college? Wow, I must have smoked a whole lot more than I remember doing.
Yeah,Op99, I know what you mean about vulnerable topics ;~) Luke’s doing great in his new school, thanks for askin’. He was put back one year, to first grade, due to never having learned to read in either French or English. His first day he came home flabbergasted he could understand every word the teacher said! Wow, did I feel like a total jerk for not getting him into a different school sooner. But he’s reading like a champ now (2 weeks of tutoring was all it took) and doesn’t hate school. I guess it’ll work out ok.
lotus @ 59:
Hell, if they sent Ann to run the Cpa I believe that SHE would be alive today. And so would Iraq.
Mommybrain, the littl’uns are nothing if not adaptable, eh?
lotus– she would have fired the bunch of unqualified hacks in the CPA and probably kept people at the very least laughing and honest. Though the entire invasion was doomed (imho), we would have stood a mite of a chance with principled real professionals and diplomats working together with the Iraqis rather than the parade of schmucks stroking each other and the ego of geedubya.
Better yet, she’d have sat with Saddam before the war and talked to him and stopped the insanity completely.
Joe Wilson could have done it; others, too. ;(
Better yet, she’d have sat with Saddam before the war and talked to him and stopped the insanity completely.
I don’t think Saddam was the one who needed to be talked to…
It’s getting much more difficult to believe these folks aren’t intentionally trying to drive our government bankrupt and keep Iraq in chaos.
Iraq can be considered as a demonstration of right wing conservative governing principles.
It’s going swimmingly, don’t you think?
whig @ 66
As a demonstration of their efficacy, absoluteley.
Wow, you’re speaking my mind… as soon as I read that article this morning, the first thought that ran through my head was:
“Ah, now it all makes sense, look at our failed policies enacted by the Iraqi government, this was the wingers dream… they enacted every idiotic idea they want to put in place here, and look how well it worked out”.
This alone ought to be enough reason to kick the bastards out of *our* government.
Eli @ 64
true, Eli– brain fart, sorry.
Eli @ 37
Polished? Someone who has chosen to be the life partner of Kate O’Beirne? Impossible.
BTW, I am shocked, SHOCKED, that Kate O’Beirne has never mentioned her husband’s connection to the CPA during her various rants extolling the progress being made in Iraq.
litigatormom @ 70
Is no-one getting the joke? 60 Grit? Polished?
Sigh…
Eli, be fair. They’ve been very efficacious in New Orleans, haven’t they?
Sorry, painful sarcasm moment. I realized that I could read that back as serious and it would sound like any typical wingnut. Nuts.
whig @ 72
The Iraqis and Afghans are very disadvantaged, so the Bush administration is working very well for them…
Sorry, Eli — ran off from the ‘puter for a bit. But no, I meant “Sergio, for starters — and most everybody who’s died in Baghdad since, to boot!”
Dammit.
Awright, y’all — toodles ’til later, and have fun!
Eli @ 72
Oh, I got it, honey. I gave it an 8.5.
angie @ 55
His book is due for release on Sept 19th so hopefully he’ll be on all the talking head shows etc. to promote it
http://www.amazon.com/Imperial…..mp;s=books
Thanks, op. That’s a relief.
Read the part about the guy they put in charge of the health care system. I wrote a longer comment about it a couple of threads back, which vanished into the ethere, but seriously, it’ll make you cry. They replaced a guy who was an expert in public health and disaster recovery with a Christian antiabortion social-worker who transplanted American healthcare cost-containment bureacracy and privatizing everything in sight. It would almost be funny if not for the huge number of deaths he must be responsible for.
Eli @ 72
Forgive my obtuseness, but I’m not! Maybe it’s just that I loathe Kate O’Beirne so much that my humor sensors have shorted out….
Folks, I’ve just been asked if Rajiv Chandrasekaran is a writer we can trust. I don’t know who that person is. Can somebody give me some background so I can soothe the person who is concerned that this could be the equivalent of an article by “poolboy” or others in WAPO? Thanks in advance.
litigatormom @ 80
Ol’ 60 Grit was a play on the original moniker “Sandpaper Snatch.”
Eli @ 72
Eli — think of porkers confronting pearls to console yourself…
Imagine what the world would be like if Wesley Clark had been in charge of the recostruction.
op99 @
82
Ah punaise, we miss you….
Apologies, Eli. Having just done a Google search, I now get it. I blame my obtuseness on having never purchased or used sandpaper….
sonate– I have read articles by him and thought he did a good job reporting. Here’s his Random House bio
http://www.randomhouse.com/aut…..orid=67447
No sooner did the young Republicans in Guccis and Bob Jones U t-shirts hit the ground in the Green Zone, than five blogs started reporting bits and pieces of what is coming out in Greenwald’s book and Rajiv Chandrasekaran’s WaPo article.
Justin Raimando at antiwar.com, Michael Rivero at whatreallyhappened.com, Laura Rozen at warandpiece.com, Juan Cole at juancole.com and riverbend at riverbendblogspot.com have documented these atrocities for over a thousand days now. Matt O has brought some of that perspective here, but we all owe a debt to the five blogs I’m mentioning here. There are others, too, but these folks smelled the stench coming out of the CPA offices before their new occupants could even crack open the cover of their newest “Left Behind” series novels.
absolutely, ET!
angie @
23
well, at least the competent ones were kept out of harm’s way. they’re sure needed now…..
Eli @ 19
Eli @ 37
Oh, man, I needed that! Thanks for my first honest-to-gosh 707!
Jane Hamsher @ 85
But his masterworks live on in our memories…
tominwv @
31
Makes you feel kinda sentimental doesn’t it. Hunter Thompson, before he died said something to the effect that Bush made Nixon look pretty good.
fahrender @ 94
Hell, Bush makes Martin Sheen in The Dead Zone look pretty good.
(And I keep waiting for him to come to a similar end)
“We’re stuck in a disastrous Bush/Lieberman war we can’t extricate ourselves from…” Is that statement designed to be a self-fulfilling prophecy? At the risk of being labeled a “troll”, do the owners of this site actually care about the welfare of the troops? Because it would seem obvious that if you did, you would be screaming from the rooftops to have those troops extricated from that abattoir in Iraq as quickly and as rapidly as possible. Those U.S. troops will continue to get blown up and picked apart as long as they continue to illegally occupy Iraq and the resistance fighters in Iraq will continue to fight the U.S. forces, until their dying breath, until the invader is driven from their homeland. A recent poll has shown that a majority of Iraqis want the U.S. to at least set a timetable as to when they will finally leave their country. Another poll taken a few months back showed that the majority of the enlisted troops wish the U.S. forces to leave Iraq by the end of 2006.
Despite these findings, firedoglake laments that there is [allegedly] no way to leave Iraq. Has this site advocated that the Democrats, the opposition party, show their concern for the troops by calling for a withdrawal as soon as possible? How many more troops have to die and return to this country missing limbs and receiving third degree burns over their bodies and, most egregiously, receiveing brain injuries before realizing that, like a place called Vietnam, Iraq has become a lost cause? Those troops deserve to be brought back, not redeployed , NOW, if not sooner.
litigatormom @ 86
As someone who has purchased and used a great deal of sandpaper, I have to observe that 60 grit might render the gentleman smooth, but not polished. I’d recommend 400 grit wet-or-dry with oil for that.
I vaguely recall a detailed story in either the BYTimes or WaPo about the hiring mess in the GreenZone where hiring was done off applications originally received by the Heritage Foundation! Michael Ledeen’s 24yo daughter was one of the bigwigs hired for Iraq according to the story. Her previous executive experience had been organizing a campus protest against a speech by Angela Davis…
Ed*ard Teller @ 88
Yeah, I remember reading way back about how they were rejecting any doctor who wasn’t anti-abortion, and how they put kids who had resumes into the National Review in charge of the economy, and the kudos you give are well-deserved. But this stuff is even worse than anything I remember reading before.
The Bush Administration is always worse than you imagine, even when you take into account that the Bush Administration is always worse than you imagine.
Sigh.
Mommybrain @
34
Well, I don’t know what you’d do, lady, but I wouldn’t go near those guys with my trouser treasure and …. well, forgit it.
Endowed with $18 billion in U.S. reconstruction funds
$18 billion of taxpayer money.
This is the Iraq War story that hasn’t been told and it’s long overdue.
Dem talking points/verbal headlines:
In Iraq as in Katrina, it’s Cronyism over Competence.
$18 Billion of Taxpayer Money: Mis-managed, Mis-spent or Just Plain Missing.
Erroll @ 95
Erroll, dear, we are.
Iraq is a laboratory for conservative theories: laissez-faire crony capitalism and christo-fascist social policy.
The devastation of Iraq is testament to the utter uselessness and moral bankruptcy of those conservative theories.
They have created their New Jerusalem according to their bullshit ideology.
What they have actually created is hell on earth.
And remember, it’s important to lay this at the feet of the Republican Congress, not just Bush & Cheney. The Bush administration will be gone in 2009 regardless – we need to remind everyone that the Republicans in Congress completely and utterly failed in their oversight duties. Or, more accurately, never even attempted to perform them.
Erroll, dear, we are.
You noticed that too?
“Those who know Mr. O’Beirne intimately describe him as very polished.”
I thought Katie was married to Lincoln”Log”Chafee.
She’s also been confused with “Sandy” Berger, I understand.
David Olsen @ 105
You’re thinking of Denny HasToHurt.
remember: a slight majority of Democrats in Congress voted against this War on Iraq — almost every Republican voted for it
Ed*ard Teller @ 88
Hi ET,
YOu or anyone heard from/of Riverbend since August 5? I worry.
Eli @ 72
I got it, Eli…you should have posted a spew warning.
I got it, Eli…you should have posted a spew warning.
I didn’t want to be accused of anti-spumitism.
Interesting that both Greenwald’s and Chandrasekaran’s books will be in the spotlight at the same time.
Eli @ 104
Can we not blockquote that stuff, though? *ilson’ll sweep up.
Civility is overrated… I miss “sandpaper snatch,” the funniest ad hominem I think I’ve ever seen or heard.
Ed*ard Teller @ 88
I agree. While I applaud the WaPo article, it is again discovering long after the fact what was known at the time.
I need a cia leak investigation fix. Last weekend was full of them…and now it’s saturday and like pavlov’s dogs I am drooling, waiting for a tid bit that will get us closer to impeachment. The torture scandal is good. Hearing Turley explain how important it is that Bushite does not touch the geneva conventions because he is changing the rules to avoid being held accountable for violating the current statutes. He’s in violation of the law folks!! (for the 89 millionth time).
Can you imagine?? I mean, it feels so fascist. Last night someone on some pundit show was saying (really smugly) that you can’t compare the U.S to a fascist regime because fascist regimes killed people!! And our gov’t isn’t killing people. (doofus on fox news!!) I swear to god I thought I was gonna have a heart attack. Did you hear than Iraq?? the U.S.A has not killed or tortured anyone! Nope. Nobody. Bush isn’t a fascist because he has kept everyone ALIVE in his power grab.
Holy Moley, we are really going to have to practice restraint and live by our morals when we finally get this creep in custody and behind bars. I mean it, we better behave a lot better than he is. What’s cool, is that we might all joke about what we would like to do with him, but most of us on these sites actually have morales instead of a spiritual sickness . The folks on these blogs seem to understand that there is a set of laws greater than us and that we don’t know everything. Lovely place to visit, firedoglake.
Reminds me of what Mannion (here) and Rogers (here) said about PT9/11. Thousands of Iraqis dying because we sent these feebs over – it makes me sick to my stomach.
Someone mentioned punaise. What happened to this person?
Hugh @ 114
On the other hand, the timing is somewhat less than ideal for Republican candidates…
Oh my goodness, writing posts without spell checker is always good for a chuckle!! WE have MORALES!! It’s very funny said with a hispanic accent. Obviously in need of entertainment.
Erroll @ 95
well, buckwheat, it’s bad. any way you look at it. and the truth is nobody really knows what the best thing to do would be. the soldiers and marines over there are screwwwwd. if i was in iraq or home on leave i would probably desert. and that would be my problem. whatever president or congress finally makes the move to disengage will have hell to pay. and unless it’s Russ Feingold, don’t hold your breath waiting for it to actually happen. James Webb getting in the Senate would be a good start though. He just said goodbye to his son , a Marine, who just shipped out a short time ago. i don.t know of any other politicians whose children are involved, although there may be a few. We need to go back to the draft. That would put a stop to this madness real fast.
Hearing Turley explain how important it is that Bushite does not touch the geneva conventions because he is changing the rules to avoid being held accountable for violating the current statutes. He’s in violation of the law folks!! (for the 89 millionth time).
I don’t think I hear this point often enough: If Bush wasn’t violating the law, he wouldn’t be trying to change it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 117
Vacation. He checked in briefly a day or two ago.
Erroll — you aren’t getting much reaction to your comment here because you obviously haven’t been here too often before and your position is one that almost everybody here espouses.
It’s kinda like telling us breathlessly that Bush lies. We know…
Erroll @ 95
No offense, Erroll, but have you read anything else here? There are few other blogs that can match us for work online and off to get rid of those who are blocking bringing the troops home. While I can see that “We’re stuck in a disastrous Bush/Lieberman war we can’t extricate ourselves from” is somewhat open to misinterpretation, in light of everything else that goes on here, I think it’s clear that it is not any prediction of the future, but means that those who got us in (like the two named) are not going to find any way to get us out.
Can the RNC be prosecuted/sued for hijacking the Iraq recovery effort? They’re responsible for the wrongful deaths of thousands of American troops, not to the mention the theft of tens of billions siphoned out of the U.S. Treasury by them and their pet contractors. If the Mafia had done that, the FBI and RICO would be calling. The RNC is clearly a “corrupt organization.” Why does it get to skate? Oh, right. Abu Gonzalez… never mind.
Eli #118,
The timing is never bad for the Republicans. Either the Democrats agreed or were weak or the Republicans were not allowed to go far enough or the chaos they caused shows that only they can be allowed to manage it.
OT– sounds familiar, eh? At least people are in deep doo doo there.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14866070/
Oklahoma kiddo @ 117
punaise made a weekly drive-by visit yesterday and will be back next week. for reasons known to punaise, s/he is taking a month-long break from FDL.
for Punaise — it’s the opposite of a vacation but a work session. He was frittering away too much fun time in here (it is addicting) so by laying off commenting temporarily he’s laying away some shekels…
Errol’s just here for the boobs……
Hugh @ 126
Sad but true, at least in terms of media spin. But I think this is the sort of thing that really will piss off anyone remotely honest with themselves who still believes that Iraq was about democracy promotion or anything idealistic like that.
If there are any of them left.
Eli #118,
Ooops, almost forgot the most important Republican argument. We need to think about the future and not be mired in the past and finger pointing that gets us nowhere.
Hugh @ 132
Yes, not being mired is an excellent idea…
Eli @ 121
Or more importantly, wouldn’t be trying to change it retroactively. If he had tried to change it non-retroactively back in the Patriot Act era when he had approval ratings in the 70s and could get almost anything passed, I might be willing to believe he hadn’t already broken the law. But the whole “it’s urgent to change the law concerning people we’ve had in custory for 3-5 years” conveys nothing more clearly than “we have to change the law before a party gets into power that might look at what we’ve done.”
Eli @ 133
That only works if there are people (our military and the Iraqis) left to live a future.
op99 @ 122
Redshift @ 134
‘Zackly. Are the Democrats not saying anything about this, or am I just missing it?
I guess they consider calling the President a criminal to be bad form, or not cricket, or something.
Hotflash at 101, in reply to my post, says, enigmatically, “Erroll, dear, we are”. We are what, supporting the troops? By doing what, putting a sticker on your car with those words? My question, which was never answered, was, does this site, like so many other so-called liberal sites, either simply dismiss the notion of immediate withdrawal or just ignores the question altogether, a la Al Franken, who does both? I find it simply stunning that what should be the key issue for liberals, getting those troops returned to this country as soon as possible, rates barely a mention on their list of priorities.
Ed*ard Teller says:
September 16th, 2006 at 3:02 pm
Are you saying these folks actually read novels? Jeebus, I thought the only stuff they read was the Old Testament and The Collected Wisdom of Reagan and Bush (about the length of My Pet Goat, and frequently mistaken for it).
Measuring the Collapse of Traditional States
-via thinkprogress
Hotflash @ # 108,
Good question – what has happened to riverbend?
Here’s the end of her final post:
I’ve said goodbye this last month to more people than I can count. Some of the ‘goodbyes’ were hurried and furtive- the sort you say at night to the neighbor who got a death threat and is leaving at the break of dawn, quietly.
Some of the ‘goodbyes’ were emotional and long-drawn, to the relatives and friends who can no longer bear to live in a country coming apart at the seams.
Many of the ‘goodbyes’ were said stoically- almost casually- with a fake smile plastered on the face and the words, “See you soon”… Only to walk out the door and want to collapse with the burden of parting with yet another loved one.
During times like these I remember a speech Bush made in 2003: One of the big achievements he claimed was the return of jubilant ‘exiled’ Iraqis to their country after the fall of Saddam. I’d like to see some numbers about the Iraqis currently outside of the country you are occupying… Not to mention internally displaced Iraqis abandoning their homes and cities.
I sometimes wonder if we’ll ever know just how many hundreds of thousands of Iraqis left the country this bleak summer. I wonder how many of them will actually return. Where will they go? What will they do with themselves? Is it time to follow? Is it time to wash our hands of the country and try to find a stable life somewhere else?
I’ve lost my bookmark to a story from late 2003. Bremer’s people from Monsanto were inserting language into the CPA guidelines and the early draft of an Iraqi constitution which made it illegal for Iraqis to save or trade seeds, as they have been doing for about 11,000 years or so. Monsanto became the sole purveyor of seeds in the country. I’ve lost track of how that one turned out.
I’ve lost my bookmark to a story from late 2003. Bremer’s people from Monsanto were inserting language into the CPA guidelines and the early draft of an Iraqi constitution which made it illegal for Iraqis to save or trade seeds, as they have been doing for about 11,000 years or so. Monsanto became the sole purveyor of seeds in the country. I’ve lost track of how that one turned out.
I’m gonna guess… “badly”.
op99 @ 122
Vacation? I assume he cleared this with Hamsher and Smith.
*ilson46201 @ 129
speaking of addicting, i’m going to take the needle out and go. to. bed. i have been keyboarding for faaaar too many hours. nite all…..
p.s. if you want to get a different perspective on the tittie rage/blogger snark episode, go over to gilliam’s. there are quite a number of comments after steve’s take on the Althouse rant. some about us.
P J Evans @ 139
The “Left Behind” novels were required reading in some CPA offices. Maybe the kids thought they were instructional manuals.
Ed*ard Teller @ 145
Maybe it was so they would feel less pressure. Doesn’t matter if they get the reconstruction right, The Rapture will make it all irrelevant anyway.
Here’s one article about the seeds:
http://www.grain.org/articles/?id=6
I like to apply the Clinton test. What would the Republicans have done if
911 had happened on Clinton’s watch
Clinton had started a war, period
Clinton had invaded Iraq on cooked intelligence
Clinton had stacked the CPA with unqualified cronies
Clinton had left American troops hanging with no mission for 3 1/2 years
Clinton had spent $400 billion on anything
Clinton had tortured, engaged in rendition, and had set up secret CIA prisons
Clinton had suspended habeas corpus and set up kangaroo courts
or
Clinton had set up a vast program for domestic warrantless eavesdropping?
It helps me clarify just how hypocritical the Republicans are.
Erroll, go click on some of those tags over in the right-hand column. Try ‘BushCo’ and ‘Lieberman’ for openers, then come back for ‘Iraq’. After that, if you still want to complain, you can.
(I kinda think The Rapture is like a great big “Reset” button for Republican fundies)
This is from the excellent Naomi Klein 2003 article I mentioned above: Bremer wanted to privatize Iraqi assets, but an occupier cannot sell the assets of the occupied nation. So, they set up their puppet government, and made CPA rules the law of the land until elections were held.
“Bremer had found his legal loophole: There would be a window—seven months—when the occupation was officially over but before general elections were scheduled to take place. Within this window, the Hague and Geneva Conventions’ bans on privatization would no longer apply, but Bremer’s own laws, thanks to Article 26, would stand. During these seven months, foreign investors could come to Iraq and sign forty-year contracts to buy up Iraqi assets. If a future elected Iraqi government decided to change the rules, investors could sue for compensation.”
Immoral pigs.
fahrender at 3:25 pm
I agree.
Also Erroll, I strongly suggest you apologize to Jane and Christy for insinuating that they are insensitive to the plight of our troops.
Is anyone familiar with Erroll? Has he ever commented here before?
He sure could be a neocon troll exploiting the fact that some Democrats are undecided about how to best extricate our soldiers from Bush’s folly.
Erroll, if you have concrete suggestions about how we could better manifest our anti-occupation/war sentiments, please by all means spell it out.
Your comment mentioned, “screaming from the rooftops.” How did it work out?
Hugh @ 148
I’m pretty sure Bush has committed at least 10-20 impeachable offenses by the 1998 standard.
(Well, not the *exact* standard – I’m just talking in terms of offense magnitude)
Erroll — a number of folk here answered your initial comment. Now you being rude and insulting. Chill and read. Yes, this site has repeatedly called for immediate and rapid redeployment home for US troops.
Now, be nice! We aren’t the enemy…
In the interest of rubbing wingnuts’ noses in their own symbolic feces, wouldn’t it be appropriate for someone to ask Ms. Grit (during one of her innumerable TV appearances) about her husband being as responsible as any single person for our losing in Iraq?
John Casper @ 152
I couldn’t help but notice the synergy of “Error” and “Troll” in the name, although I suppose it’s probably just a coincidence…
Erroll, this post doesn’t present a solution for the Pakistan problem, either. So what? The world’s problems are gonna get solved in a day? Why don’t you help yourself to a big steaming cup of STFU? Go demand a solution from George Bush, the one whose responsibility it currently is. What are you mad at us for?
FWIW, Josh Marshall and Laura Rozen had an article on this in the Washington Monthly almost three years ago…
angie @ 147
Thanks, Angie! I love this part:
Order 81 is just one of 100 Orders left behind by Bremer and among the more notable of these laws is the controversial Order 39 which effectively lays down the over-all legal framework for Iraq’s economy by giving foreign investors rights equal to Iraqis in exploiting Iraq’s domestic market. Taken together, all these laws, which cover virtually all aspects of the economy – including Iraq’s trade regime, the mandate of the Central Bank, regulations on trade union activities, etc. – lay the bases for the US’ bigger objective of building a neo-liberal regime in Iraq.
Eli @ 153
Who’s Bush doin 10 – 20 times in the Oval office? Kindasleazy Rice?
Who’s Bush doin 10 – 20 times in the Oval office? Kindasleazy Rice?
That’s why I clarified my meaning as to being a matter of magnitude. Dubya wouldn’t know a blow job if it walked up and sucked his dick.
(Wow, I can’t believe that didn’t get filtered…)
Jane:
What a great topic to highlight! The warprofiteering is one of the worst evils of the Iraq war. Sadly, it appears as if this was planned all along by the neocons. When they planned the war in the late 90’s, there was no WMD, no need to install a democracy somewhere. The only thing they had was a goal of engaging the powerful American war machinery. They wanted to show that we are No. 1. They also wanted to have some reward for their effort, and it was clearly the oodles of money floating around reconstruction that was so attractive for them.
We often accuse Bush of having no plan for the time after finishing the invasion. This is patently wrong. There were plans drawn up all right. Those plans included war profitering and replacement of war equipment by the defense industry to the tune of 100’s of Billions of Dollars, sucked out of the pocket of the American taxpayers. And indeed, everything goes according to plan just swimmingly.
Eli @ 150
I almost wish I believed in the imminent Rapture, and that the people who are sure they are the righteous were right, because then I’d know there would be a day when these assholes would just vanish off the face of the earth. Can’t come soon enough, if you ask me.
I’ve put this link up before, but now seems a good time to put it up again. Just one big graph of the budget surplus or deficit since 1960 or thereabouts.
http://www.uuforum.org/deficit.htm
Europeans May Meet With Iran, Sans U.S.
-via huffpo
Redshift @ 165
I feel the exact same way.
everything these guys have touched surrounding Iraq has been a criminal enterprise…
every damn last thing…
Imagine that you are a personnel officer, looking to hire someone. Then you see that line on a candidate’s resume that says “Iraq, Coalition Provisional Authority, Office of . . .” It sets off bells, kind of like seeing “Accounting Experience: Enron” on the resume, or finding “I learned about steering oil tankers on the Exxon Valdez” in a letter of application.
Not good.
I’m thinking that some folks might wish to leave that part off their resumes. Maybe call it “Study abroad in the Middle East” instead.
Oh please allow me to add fuel to the fire. Check out David Sirota’s blog and look at Lieberman’s abysmal voting record on Iraq. Then try and breathe and then go to the Ned Lamont Blog and fire off a letter to HoJoe, especially if you are his constituent. I already did–after my hands stopped shaking.
dalloway #125 — Nice concept, but I think the American public would have a hard time with the idea of going after a political party even if they were immersed in offenses.
It would be better to stick to the individuals involved. And by all means, we should go after them, full investigation to hunt down every one of the perpetrators of the biggest money laundering operation ever.
*ilson46201 @ 107
and there were more of them… they had a super majority???
sofistic @ 166
Great visual, thanks.
John Casper
Yes, John, if one disagrees with someone, the best defense that one can manage is to use that favorite pejorative word “troll.” Did you actually bother to read what I had written? You rail against me because I dared question whether Jane and Christy have actually advocated and pushed for the immediate withdrawal of those troops from Iraq. If they have, then I certainly offer my apologies. But if they have not, then they should be doing so. To again restate what I had written before, those troops are getting blown up and ripped apart for no legitimate reason and yet there are a very few congressmembers [Dennis Kucinich among them] and absoluetly no senators and, as far as I can determine, no liberal blogs which are calling for the obvious, which is the immediate withdrawal and the return of those troops to this country. But of course if I dare to raise this subject, on a [so-called] liberal blog, I run the risk of being labeled a “troll.”
How can we get non-choir members to watch this thing?
Rove never misses an opportunity:
(Thanks angie)
“FOOD SOVEREIGNTY
Food sovereignty is the right of people to define their own food and agriculture policies, to protect and regulate domestic agricultural production and trade, to decide the way food should be produced, what should be grown locally and what should be imported. The demand for food sovereignty and the opposition to the patenting of seeds has been central to the small farmers’ struggle all over the world over the past decade. By fundamentally altering the IPR regime, the US has ensured that Iraq’s agricultural system will remain under “occupation” in Iraq.”
Murderers.
Erroll @ 175
The problem is not with your position, it is with your characterization of *our* position.
If you rudely and self-righteously excoriate us for positions we do not actually hold, we are not going to respond favorably.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 117
taking some time off, will be back soon
much missed, think it’s mutual as he checked in last night briefly and almost said so
sofistic #166,
That’s based on the off budget deficit numbers which treats borrowing from Social Security as revenue and not, well borrowing. The on budget deficit figures which is the deficit before this “reduction” are considerably higher. Clinton’s surplus would be small and Bush’s deficits much larger.
Do we need cleanup on aisle 175? Erroll is still being trollish.
Peterr #170 — I would have that same reaction if the name “Ledeen” crossed my desk, frankly.
But I don’t think in 2003 that we’d fully connected the dots between Michael Ledeen’s likely role in the ramp up to the war — or the potential for a young, inexperienced family member to be manipulated into ignoring 8-9 BILLION in cash walking away…
Now there’s a particular individual an investigation should be questioning thoroughly.
Does Bush really want us to legalize torture? Because I think 8-9 BILLION missing is a good reason to consider it for those who espouse torture.
I have reviewed Erroll’s previous postings here — he seems to incite controversy. His knocking Cynthia McKinney and poo-pooing ‘racism’ was incendiary …
Erroll — drop it. We have answered you. Go elsewhere and dog them.
Please…
Hugh @ 180
Yep, Hugh, but the graph is so pretty and dramatic, doncha think?
Rayne @ 172
The Argentine example is a case in point. A corrupt Christofascist military junta freaked out over liberal and socialist trends. They wacked 20,000 to 40,000 liberals over the next few years. When it came time for the Argentines to look under the rocks after they returned to a modicum of democracy, the entire country shuddered. They still are having a hard time picking up the rocks or looking at themselves in the mirror over 20 years later.
It may be harder for the Dems to delve as deeply as we here might hope when and if they return to power.
sofistic @ 184
Indeed!
*ilson at 97:
I believe that was a Paul Krugman column sometime in the pre-firewall era. I remember because of the 24-year old true believer that was sent in to restructure the Baghdad Stock Exchange. I couldn’t figure out why I wasn’t seeing any follow-up. “Some day maybe we’ll hear more,” I thought…
As the old PSA’s used to say, Erroll, “Reading is Fundamental.”
Try reading some liberal blogs before saying that “no liberal blogs” are calling for immediate withdrawal. Click on the “Iraq” link to the right, for instance, and dig around a while.
We’ll still be here . . .
oh good, C&L has the video up where Jonathan Turley speaks about shrubya’s liability for war crimes…
somehow even more shocking seeing it for the 2nd time…
Erroll @ 138
opps, caught in the nick of time… I was about to issue a warm welcome…
Hugh @ 147
When you put it this way…Why not try sending these questions to Maureen Dowd or Bob Herbert or KO?
OldCoastie @ 188
Gonna have to go look at it another time; I thought it was pretty scary the first time I saw it on KO. When he says these kinds of things, it really is scary, given where he is coming from.
new thread
Erroll:
- Go to the top of the page;
- Scroll down to the “Categories” on the right;
- Note the 165 posts tagged Iraq.
- Dig in, start reading.
You might also think more carefully about the 50,000 foot view. We will NOT be able to pull out of Iraq or prevent a similar war in Iran if we do not get these neo-cons and their enablers out of office.
I have had a close family member serve in Iraq; I dread that he may be called up from IRR to return. But my dread, frustration, anger and the screaming from rooftops of all of troops’ families (Cindy Sheehan, you do remember her?) is simply not enough. We have to remove these f*ckers from office.
I believe in this enough that I spend 30-40 hours a week on efforts to get Democratic candidates elected to replace Republican incumbents. And many of the folks in this blog both posters and commenters alike are doing something to that end.
Now what the f*ck are you doing about it, concretely, except b*tching at us about it?
*ilson46201 @ 183
Y’know, maybe Erroll’s just, uh, like 5X SICKER OF THIS SHIT THAN THE REST OF US. HE HAS HAD ENOUGH and is pissed. Let’s be nice, now, everyone.
today at our big downtown Fiesta, I bought from our Indiana State Democrats a T-shirt with Had Enough?
I also bought elsewhere a cool T-shirt with a picture of Zapata and the slogan Tierra Y Libertad! (Land and Liberty!)
Eli @ 146
From the way things are turning out, it looks as if they weren’t feeling much of anything. Responsibility? Empathy? Competence? Even a little humility?
Nada.
It’s not the best defense Erroll, it’s just the one your comments warrant so far. I certainly hope I’m wrong. We need all the help we can get.
Yeah, I did and so far that appears to have been a poor use of my time, especially the part about“screaming from the rooftops.”
I’m still waiting for an answer. Is that what you want us to do?
No, because as I stated, you insinuated they were insensitive.
Erroll, I’m pretty familiar with Jane and Christy’s opposition to Bush’s ME strategy. If you’re not, I suggest you read their posts.
A lot of us here at FDL advocate exactly that strategy. As far as I can tell, though, it would hurt Democratic chances to retake both houses in November. On that basis I would strongly recommend to Jane and Christy that they ignore your advice as spectacularly unsound from a political perspective. The way to play it is to hold hearings on Iraq with subpoena power in whichever House the Democrats take in November. Then, based on whatever comes out of those, act accordingly.
Until I see evidence to the contrary, I think you are a neocon troll trying to split what you know full well is a “liberal blog.” Worse, I think you are doing it hiding behind the blood and guts of fallen American soldiers. Troll does not begin to capture what I think of you. If you really care about American Combat soldiers, you’ll adopt a strategy that will really bring them home. I certainly hope I am wrong. I hope you are a well-intentioned, political novice.
I have not had the time to read this entire comment thread, but I read Jane’s post and the entire article she linked.
Needless to say, I am outraged. What I am wondering is, how do we make the American people aware of this information so that they will feel the same sense of outrage?
Now to go read the comments. Great post, Jane.
Actually, this is your government on the limited, inadequate, CPA-approved ideological formulary.
Even Mrs. Fish shook her head after reading this and remarked, “It’s more like MegaCorporate America than anything else … millions spent for a series of bad ideas, and when it came time to account everyone had moved on to other jobs”
The scariest part was the guy who was a BC operative in Florida, now there’s a guy with a real understanding of Democracy.
Sorry *ilson, I was late with my 4:30. Please feel free to delete it as you see fit.
Kate O’Bierne’s husband:
Mr. Oh-it-burns!
Excellent post. However, we should not make the mistake of conflating the bushevic/neocon ‘loyalty’ requirement as having anything to do with trust, political patronage or cronyism. The reasons are much more basic. We should remember that this ‘loyalty’ is a requirement at every level of the bushevic philosophy; from attendance at their rallies to membership in their inner circle. What they refer to as loyalty is actually complicity; either knowing or unwitting, in their plans for the rest of us. This ‘loyalty’ means to them that you know they are greedy evil people and you want a piece of the action too or you are ignorant of their intentions and therefore they have nothing to fear from you. Bushism is just another state sponsored gangster ring like communism, fascism, naziism or other totalitarian philosophies. They all share the same goals: Total domination. Of everyone. The antidote for Darkness is Light. Keeping the truth in mind and speaking it loud and often to those in power.
John Casper @
198
John Casper,
If anyone’s been around these parts for any length of time, they know you’re probably the most welcoming voice at the Lake. But when you do swat a troll, you do it with style and grace.
“Well done” does not begin to capture how I feel about your reply.
one hates to make the nazi comparison but it sonuds like the interviews of the ss. there were no psychology questions, all you had to prove was that you were not a Jew.
Thanks very much Peterr!
Erroll @ 138
Erroll, dear, there are lots of us here. This ’site’ doesn’t actually have a point of view, although its owners and posters as individuals do. To my knowledge we have never agreed on a list of priorities, although most posters are, IMO, in favour of a speedy end to the invasion. But this is complicated; we have badly broken a living country and I believe that we have a responsibility to its surviving citizens. I doubt that all of us are liberals, it is not a requirement to post here. We don’t even agree on how to mix a martini. Do you think that we should have a single agenda? How would that happen? And then what would we have to talk about?
As for myself, no, I don’t have a magnetic sticker. How would that help them? I support a number of our soldiers directly through AnySoldier and by doing my damnedest to get people elected who can get them the hell out. I do this because stamping my feet and demanding that someone else fix it will not help. I spend time at ‘this site’ to learn (*lots* of information here at the Lake), to build community with the folks here, to be strengthened and refreshed. My priorities are 1.) net neutrality 2.) accurate vote counting, 3.) election of representatives responsive to their constituents. I believe this is how we get our men and women home. Other than haranguing us to *fix it right this instant*, what are you doing?
Regards,
Sorry to feed, *ilson, but the kid uses ‘enigmatically’ correctly and might turn out OK. I was also impressed by TRex’s generosity with Liza last night — that must have gotten her a few hundred hits, if she can deliver the content she’s caught a rocket. Besides, I missed my session at the dojo last night :)
neurophius @ 199
SPOTLIGHT. Spotlight early, Spotlight often.
Rayne
I will attempt to reply to you intelligently though I suspect that it will be like shouting into the wind. I went to the right and clicked on the Iraq link and, even though I had only gone through about two dozen, I was not able to locate a post which called for, in its title, the immediate withdrawal [NOT redeployment- redeploying the troops is not the same thing as withdrawal] of the troops from Iraq. My original post was to bring attention to the fact that extricating the troops can be done if enough people and bloggers and liberals keep making that demand, otherwise it simply becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. People made enough noise about this concerning a certain conflict in a place called Vietnam a place which I am, unfortunately, all too familiar. You say that you are working for Democrats to replace the Republicans in office. Are you concerned how many of these Democratic saviors are, to again belabor the point but nevertheless an important point, actually calling for an IMMEDIATE withdrawal, not redeployment, of those troops from that quagmire in Iraq? I would be surprised if it is as high as 20 per cent.
The irony about all this is that I had received abuse a little while ago while standing on a sidewalk holding a sign calling for an end to the war with other people, with some drivers honking their horns and yelling expletives at us, and then dare to come to this site to raise questions and have you wonder what I have done lately for the cause. The point, of course, is that so-called liberals can be just as intolerant and just as stupid as those on the other side of the political spectrum.
Dan O’Connell @ 203
YES Great response Dan
*ilson46201 @ 183
Aha! Nuf said.
“can be just as intolerant and just as stupid as those on the other side of the political spectrum.”
as can be commenters too…
Erroll reminds me of the phrase “smart-ass white boy who knows it all” — they usually mean well but assume all around them just aren’t as good as they think they should be …
litigatormom @ 86
for all of those who are unfamiliar with sand paper; 60 grit doesn’t polish, it scars
at least it does when used on wood
on softer materials, 60 grit would soon wear it away completely
is this guy’s name “Ken” by any chance ???
Erroll @ 209
Well, I can only see one possible solution. You’ll just have to start your own ’so-called liberal blog’! Do drop in and give us the url when you have done so, I’d be real interested. Buh bye.
Erroll @
209
Erroll, good for you for holding a sign.
That counts for a lot at FDL. What city are you in? Where did you hold the sign, please be specific.
You sound like a political novice. The nation is not ready to pull all our troops out. It’s a losing strategy leading into November 7. After November 7, if the Democrats win both houses, it becomes much more realistic. If you have polls or insight that suggests otherwise, please by all means link to it. Good intentions are not going to get our troops out of the ME.
There are plenty of controversial topics addressed at FDL. And, as long as people provide information, the discussions stay reasonable. But, it is simply unproductive to step into the conversation and accuse people of something that condems all with a broad stroke (as if we all have the same opinion here). I don’t think Erroll is a troll. I think he was venting, and in a very unproductive fashion, especially by apparently trashing Jane for not writing something that expounded his viewpoint. This is Jane and Christy’s blog. They do this for free. I don’t need any convincing that we should get out if Iraq immediately. I have said that many times in the past, and I have linked to stuff that supports that view. To my mind, that is a much more productive thing to do (blogwise), than, say, bash people who perhaps don’t share my point of view.
The Neocon-artists were sent in to do the
“nation building” that they despised. It
was reported last week that before the war
Rummy would “fire the next person”
who offered a plan for postwar Iraq.
Rummy was going to go in then get out so
the military post-war planning already prepared,
was discarded. A military occupation run by
the military could have possibly worked.
The Neocon-artists got the no-bid
contracts to create their Brave New World Order.
With the taxpayers hard earned money they gave us
a “subhuman nightmare”. It has also been reported
that Bremer and CPA as policy disbanded the Iraq Army
and refused to allow its rebuilding. They wanted
New World Disorder and they have achieved that.
I have heard stories of these Christian crusaders
doing religious ceremonies which further antagonized
the conquered population.
The War itself is a war crime-based on deceptions,
but the occupation has also been a crime. The Looting,
allowing weapms depots especially to be looted, the looting
of the oil, these are all war crimes. What is unforgiveable
is the murder and torture caused by the psychopaths
which were spawned by multinational corporations.
I do have neocon radar and ERRORTROLL is using some
of their language and attitudes. But E-TROLL you
forgot to blame that Bill Clinton. Mr. TROLL would
you kindly tell us about your work experiences
in the Bush Administration? CPA? NSA? Verizon? JOE2006?
op99 @
18
well, if he’s going to get much of a rise out of ole 60 grit he’ll need to be Mr 40 grit at most
Erroll, be a good boy, go up to your roof, and yell, “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore” 1,000 times.
John Casper at 198
As I mentioned to Mr. Rayne, this will probably be like shouting into the wind but nevertheless, I shall attempt to make an intelligent reply to your illogical belief that I am, as you so inelegantly put it, a “neocon troll.” You also claim that I somehow do not care for the welfare of those troops. I refer you to my post addressing Rayne where I had stayed on a sidewalk receiving abuse because I, along with other people, actually believe that the occupation in Iraq is illegal and immoral. I strongly doubt if a neocon would be carrying a sign calling for an end to the occupation of Iraq.
I also strongly doubt if one would have found too many neoconservatives at the Veterans for Peace convention that I had attended in Seattle last August. I strongly suspect that a neoconservative would not have given Lt. Ehren Watada [has this site ever mentioned him?] at least half a dozen standing ovations for speaking at the banquet dinner and reminding those in the military that they have not only a right but a duty and an obligation to speak out against the war machine and that that same war machine can be stopped from within. Again, one finds that liberals have just as much intolerance for being criticized on the war as do the neoconservatives. When a little bit of criticism does take place, then a great heap of vilification and malediction is sure to follow.
I wonder what the children of all the Republicans think about the totalitarian plans their daddy Republicans and mommy Republicans have for America?
Do they go to sleep at night wondering if their Constitutional freedoms will disappear, along with everyone elses, as the Busheviks dismantle our democracy one law at a time?
Do they cry tears of anguish when told the “rule of law” is quaint and so out-dated since Bush is the Law because Bush is the Ruler?
Do they ever…oh, wait, what am I thinking…with BushCo planting propaganda pieces in our nation’s classrooms (like “The Path to 9/11″) through formerly trustworthy companies like Scholastic Inc then our nation’s children won’t have to do any thinking, because the Busheviks will be doing all their thinking for them.
What a relief, knowing that our nation is in such good and capable hands, just as I’m certain that all Iraqis are rejoicing that the Busheviks placed the future of their post-Saddam nation in the good and capable hands of the Bushevik appointees at the CPA.
Who needs an expert, knowledgeable in their field of expertise, when one can have a Bushevik appointee, wholly certified to be a wingnut by Bush himself and totally committed to turning our beloved democracy into…Baghdad under the CPA wingnuttery of Bremer and all the other Bushevik appointees???
Erroll, check out my 215 at 5:07.
Maybe Erroll just needs to work on his people skills.
Staffing the CPA entirely with wingnuts and their spawn doesn’t strike me as surprising, if the purpose of the enterprise had nothing to do with Iraq, but everything to do with stealing as much money as possible for the GOP.
Remember the articles describing suitcases full of cash being used for payment because the banking system was still non-functional? With no legal system, no checks and balances, who was going to blow the whistle on them?
How many billions went missing? 8-9? How many of those billions, I wonder, are being used as we speak to fund the re-election of the Republican congress?
Erroll –
Honest debate is one thing; wholesale stereotypes and broadbrush painting is another. If you say “no liberal blogs” do what you want, then you’re going to get addressed (sometimes forcefully) by people who recognize that you’re either peddling garbage or uninformed.
We’re big on debate around here, and big on tolerating each other, but have little tolerance for garbage, no matter who peddles it.
For example: Ehren Watada *has* been mentioned here repeatedly. As I said above, Reading is Fundamental. Reading more than just the titles of posts is even more Fundamental.
(Oh, and we also have very little tolerance for those who toss unwarranted personal slurs, especially toward the owners of the blog.)
All of this is very well documented in Gilbraith’s book, “The End of Iraq”, and if he isn’t called by Democrats to testify on Capitol Hill as an expert witness, soemthing is seriously wrong with them. There’s hardly a more credible expert in the world.
Of course I’m freakin’ outraged! That’s why I’m putting money into Democratic campaigns and exhorting everyone to do the same.
Very simply the most important thing now is winning elections and winning a majority in Congress–both chambers if at all possible.
Pissed? Get out your credit cartd and click on over to ActBlue!ActBlue
Peterr at #225
You claim that I “toss unwarranted personal slurs especially toward the owners of the blog.” Ironically, you broach the topic of reading. Did you actually take the time to read my initial post at #95? The additional irony is that you claim that you desire honest debate. Apparently what you are really saying is that no criticism can be leveled at the owners of this blog, no matter how justifiable it may be.
It seems that my crime was daring to point out that Jane Hamsher believes that it is difficul to extricate those troops from Iraq. My position was and still is that if enough people and Democrats and liberals state that those troops are being chopped up and blown up for no legitimate reason, then those troops can and should be withdrawn from Iraq and the region as soon as possible. Back during something called the Vietnam conflict, enough people made their views known and enough pressure was felt so that the war in Vietnam was eventually able to be brought to a halt. The same thing can be done today if enough people dare to make their views known to those in power and even, yes, to blogs which happen to be liberal. But to people like you, the merest hint of a dissenting point of view is reason enough to claim that I am somehow engaging in some bizarre ad hominem attacks, which is not the way that I respond to an issue. But as you state, you have little, if any tolerance, for someone who dares to disagree with your hallowed point of view.
Well, that’s Fundamental Christians for you.
BTW, I’m a bit surprised the fact that the Neo-Cons are sending Fundy Christians to a mainly Muslim Country and also, the fact that they are placing so much emphasis into Fundamental Christianity in their MO, wasn’t mentioned in the opening article.
I really do hope that Georgy boy is right about the 2nd coming…I can’t wait to see the look on his face when JC Say’s “George, my Son, your going to Hell…and take those slimy fucks, Rove, Cheney and Rumsfield with you”!!
There is no way that our brave men and women in Iraq will be
brought home no matter what I want or what I do. They are
sitting ducks put there for more US OIL/EMPIRE. Bush (Chimpy
McCokespoon) has said they will be there as long as he is Dictator.
They also must remain for the next illegal invasion into Iran.
There is a slight possibility of a Democratic victory. There
is so much evicence that it might take them days to impeach Cheney
then Bush. Then troops could be freed from their Neocon Horror
Show and COME HOME by next Feb. So ERRortrOLL as you neocons say:
What is your solution again? SHOUT LOUD? Insult good snark with
bad snark? LOGICALLY, if they did come home or if they are kept
there for years, which would be worse? We have been fighting
them for 16 years. How many years before they begin liking us?
But I am getting pleasure from flaming you Mr. TROLL. Maybe
you are sincere and confused. What can you do? Donate to
Ned Lamont campaign or any other antiwar candidate. Try
being a decent human being-words have power. Defect from
your Covert Blog Spy Unit and reveal their evil plans to
Sy Hersh. Just because you carried a sign and posted a
piece of trash does not prove you are a Fire Dog. In fact
I must confess I visted Little Green Fartballs (very scary)
and you remind me of them.
Erroll- you are being rude, and you are abusing the hospitality of FDL. And, you are not doing your cause any good by responding in the way that you are. Please back off, and try to come back with less inflammatory comments. I trust you will do that, if you wish to further the broader cause you espouse.
I thought I was being inflammatory…what is malediction?
Holy Moley, we are really going to have to practice restraint and live by our morals when we finally get this creep in custody and behind bars.
I’d be happy enough just to see all of them rotting in a miserable jail in Texas. Or maybe in Iraq, next door to Saddam.
The Hague, I imagine, is too comfortable.
And let’s not forget,in the Republican utopian World known as the CPA(or as Billmon refers to it, the RNC Branch on the Tigris) someone(s) also stoleerr I mean lost track of, 9 billion dollars of our hard earned money. Culture of political purebred corruption republicans strike again!
Had Enough.