
(Photo by Reuters/Corbis via Boston Globe)
Well, this is a fine "how do you do" this morning: (via Glenn)
Democrats have allowed Republicans to fight among themselves over the [FISA and Guantanamo] issues, and appear willing to allow the issues to come to a vote rather than risk charges of political obstructionism in an election season . . . .The administration had also faced resistance over the N.S.A. wiretapping program. The Democrats had bottled up the administration’s proposals, saying Congress was being forced to legislate “in the dark” about a secret program that few members had been briefed on. They have repeatedly used procedural maneuvers to block the proposals from coming to a vote in the Judiciary Committee, drawing accusations of obstructionism from Republicans.
But Democrats, who appeared to realize the risk of being accused of thwarting debate on national security matters, did not stand in the way of the committee vote on Wednesday.
I don't know about you guys, but I have had it with the "sit on our hands" approach to democracy. How about this, just as a fun little experiment -- how about we get up off of our butts and DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THE CONSTITUTION. (Sorry about the shouting. I'm a bit miffed.)
We have done a lot of posts on the FISA issue and the importance of living up to our responsibility to safeguard our Constitution -- and the reasons that we were set up to be a nation of laws. There is a good reason for all the posts. It is important. And it is our legacy to future generations that we honor the principles on which our nation was founded.
That includes not setting the President up as a king -- you know, the whole reason we fought the Revolutionary War in the first place, tyranny and imposition of will without adequate representation and all that. (Doesn't anyone in public office read history or political philosophy?)
What it requires is that we safeguard these rights every single day. Al Gore had it absolutely on the money in his speech back in January, and I want to re-post a segment of it here for everyone:
A president who breaks the law is a threat to the very structure of our government. Our Founding Fathers were adamant that they had established a government of laws and not men. Indeed, they recognized that the structure of government they had enshrined in our Constitution - our system of checks and balances - was designed with a central purpose of ensuring that it would govern through the rule of law. As John Adams said: "The executive shall never exercise the legislative and judicial powers, or either of them, to the end that it may be a government of laws and not of men."An executive who arrogates to himself the power to ignore the legitimate legislative directives of the Congress or to act free of the check of the judiciary becomes the central threat that the Founders sought to nullify in the Constitution - an all-powerful executive too reminiscent of the King from whom they had broken free. In the words of James Madison, "the accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
Thomas Paine, whose pamphlet, "On Common Sense" ignited the American Revolution, succinctly described America's alternative. Here, he said, we intended to make certain that "the law is king."
Vigilant adherence to the rule of law strengthens our democracy and strengthens America. It ensures that those who govern us operate within our constitutional structure, which means that our democratic institutions play their indispensable role in shaping policy and determining the direction of our nation. It means that the people of this nation ultimately determine its course and not executive officials operating in secret without constraint.
The rule of law makes us stronger by ensuring that decisions will be tested, studied, reviewed and examined through the processes of government that are designed to improve policy. And the knowledge that they will be reviewed prevents over-reaching and checks the accretion of power.
Acting as a rubber stamp for Presidential power grabs is NOT what was intended by the Founders. What was intended was that members of Congress would act as a check and balance on Presidential overreach, just as the Presidential veto power was to be the balancing test for Congressional overstepping. And the power of the judiciary to overrule laws and Presidential action on Constitutional grounds was the check on both with regard to collusion between the other two branches.
I hope that Glenn is correct, and that Democrats allowed the Specter bill through the Judiciary Committee in some deal that was cut to also allow the Feinstein/Specter bill through to the floor. Between the two, the Feinstein/Specter bill is far superior -- and ought to be the focus of our efforts going forward. The Specter bill is odious, to say the least, and must be stopped -- the President of the United States is not to be given unfettered power, with no accountability, and he certainly should not be handed this sort of power lightly. His attempt to become a "unilateral executive" must be opposed, bot just for this presidency, but for all the generations to follow.
I'll have more on this in a bit, as I do a bit of digging and figure out what action would be helpful. In the meantime, try calling your Senators and voicing your objections to the Specter bill and your support for the Feinstein/Specter alternative. You can call via the Capitol switcboard at 888-355-3588 or find specific Senator office information here.
The bottom line: do you trust George Bush? My answer: no.
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FITZ
uh, FITZ!
Yes!
Darn.
At least I was beat out by a Mainah!
Meant “yes” to Christy and “no” to Bush. You knew that, right?
I felt such a terrible knot in my stomach all day after the news of this battle hit the toobz. This is so heinous and so beyond belief that it was beyond my ability to make any sense. These people have really crossed the line.
Why don’t these cowardly Dems just ask Al to speak for them? He so outshines most of them (Feingold and maybe Obama are the exceptions that come to mind)that it breaks my heart that he is not front and center in this campaign. If he indeed was going to run, wouldn’t he speak up now, before the jellyfish in congress let this bastard continue to piss all over them and the Constitution?
Christy, a MUST see from last night.
meta @ 103
Wouldn’t that be a fantastic graphic for your next post about the assault on the constitution? (Hint, hint ;))
Loves me some zero!! Anothah Mainah, Tpres2000 (But I was scoring it as a birthday gift to the Flowah, so please don’t tell!!)
op99 (I was thinking the same thing. Heee.)
The atrocities continue to pile up like firewood. Unbelievable.
Please shout louder Christy, those suffering from rectal-cranial inversion can’t hear you.
Yes, indeed, excellent campaign strategery, Dems. “Let’s just stand back and let the Republicans pretend to prove they can provide checks and balances without any interference from little old us.”
Old Sow, we have to get up pretty early in the morning to get ahead of you. Bravo, Ms. Zero. As for the flowah, I think she may be dusting off her petals with glitter for a grand entrance.
Feingold!
Torture, war crimes, kangaroo trials without even a desire for truth, coverups of govt kidnappings of innocent civilians and “mistaken” torture, taking family members hostage, violating not only the COnsitution but State and foreign domestic law (on their soil) as well as international law…
Just a merry band. I figured Hayden and Negroponte were deep in the mix.
You around, flowah? In jail? Halfway house? Wherever you be, happy birthday!
from that driftglass that Dr Bong linked to below….
“Bobo is talking to a failed leader who, to put it simply, has declared for three years that he will hammer ten pounds of shit into a five pound bag or kill us all trying.”
http://driftglass.blogspot.com.....-hack.html
CNN Headline this AM:
“Senators, White House on collision course over tribunals”
WaPo headline this AM:
“GOP Leaders Back Bush on Wiretapping, Tribunals”
WTF, I think I need more coffee.
Back soon…
Via @ 6
al gore from his mlk day speech this year (and on this very topic):
You know, it’s one thing to sit around and approve of secret government and change the judicial system all in one fell swoop. But to do it in service to handing over such totalitarian power to a completely unethical and immoral incompetent, it just boggles my mind. I am paralyzed in disbelief.
I just read the WaPo article, and they empahsize in the second paragraph:
How about destroyers of the Constitution? How about irresponsible violaters of the public trust? How about power mad idiots?
I said this over at Kos, but Arlen Specter and his staff don’t seem to be hearing it enough, so I’ll say it again:
Earth to Specter: When the Administration is breaking the law, your duty - as a US Senator - AND AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE - is NOT to ask, “How can I make this legal?”
…but instead to ask, “WHY THE FUCK WON’T THE PRESIDENT OBEY THE LAW, AND HOW DO WE MAKE HIM?”
Ever hear of a thing called the Constitution? Ever remember that you swear to uphold it? Sound familiar?
That’s your fucking job.
If you don’t want to do your job, you should get the fuck out of the Senate.
Or else people ask, “Why the fuck won’t Specter do his job, and how do we make him?”
Christy -
I wanted to repost my comments from one of yesterday’s threads because I think they’re germane to what you mentioned in your comments:
Let’s turn to this Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order
The entry answers my first question, albeit indirectly, as follows:
The entry answers my second question as follows:
So thanks to two United States Supreme Court decisions cited in the Wikipedia entry, there is perhaps some hope…
Shorter Congressional Democrats: “You want an opposition party? VOTE for us and we WILL take our seats opposite of the Republicans.”
slainte,
cl
I can’t believe the Democratic leadership is naive enough to allow this to go unchallenged or are dumb enough to believe that the politics are more important right now. This manuever is just to allow both bills on the floor and then use the threat of hanging the “rubber stamp” label around anyone that supports the Specter bill. There is enough negative energy around the issue that supporting giving the Bush unfettered power is hazardous to your future in politics.
Happy Birthday, lotus! I hope it’s a wonderful day, and that it is the beginning of a wonderful year.
Actually, *I*’m afraid the Congressional Democratic message appears to be “You’re going to have to put us in power before we’ll actually oppose anything, because we’re afraid if we do that before the election, Republicans will say mean things about us.”
Christy-
I’ve been a long time lurker (love this place! Hi, egregious!), but i had to post about this one.
The article that you quote is a textbook example of what’s wrong with political reporting, and perfectly illustrates a Real Problem we have with messaging and narratives.
Really? Which democrats say they don’t want to risk charges of obstructionism? I haven’t heard one. But notice how delicately that sentence is constructed — they “appear willing”. No truth needed! It’s like the “some people say…” approach. But that sentence is one of the least flattering ones in that article, that directly reinforces the memes of “democrats don’t stand for anything.” And it worked, too — you got worked up about how nobody is willing to take a stand, right?
They’re doing it again. “appeared to be.” How spineless! How calculating! Don’t they stand for anything?
This is how they build a narrative and reinforce impressions people have. Accuracy is irrelevant.
Oddly enough, sometimes the progressive blogosphere carries a lot of these narrative memes inadvertently. Rather than get worked up about some hack reporter (or more likely, his hack editor) who speculates about Democrats motives, we usually accept their summary about Our Guys, and, in doing so, reinforce its truthiness.
Anyway, thanks for the great site.
Christy: I need to send you an urgent email. Ok?
lotus — just noted downstairs that you are celebrating today!
Screw the retsina, baby, I’m buying you some ouzo and Metaxa!! Drinks on me!!
Have a good one! And save me some tiropita, avgolemono and koulorakia.
Its critically important that we hand over our liberties to stop the spread of the rapidly expanding caliphate.
Snowjob is a little behind the caliphate progress report since I have seen recent “news” reports of it lapping at the door stoops in Toledo recently.
I think it is way funny that Jr. has allowed Osama to dictate the terms of the political discussion.
Hope at 26 — send away!
I swear right now it makes it look (fairly or not) as if the ONLY ones bucking the president on anything are McCain-Graham-Warner on torture/kangaroo courts and Heather Wilson on a few odds and ends. But for Feingold & Leahy - were are the Democrats?
Dems have fallen down MISERABLY. Miserably
What’s the filibuster vote count if (big IF) Feingold can keep the 3 Republican Senators who cosigned the letter to Spector on board?
fallenmonk @
22
Even if that’s so, do you trust that to happen? I don’t. And I really hope I’m wrong. Giving total power to Bush is exactly what many, many want. Think Hastert and Cronyman and Boner and on and on and on.
I don’t like any of the bills and I don’t trust any of them…
harrumph.
Andrew J @ 25
With all due respect, remove the offending clause and change it to
that still sings “spineless ditherers” to me.
Don’t let this chase you away though, Andrew - your very first comment elicited a response! I had to wait weeks. Welcome to the fray.
Mary at 30 — I’ve been thinking about where the weak spots are in terms of filibusters and voting in the Dem caucus. Any suggestions/thoughts that anyone has on who needs to be peppered with calls and faxes, let me know.
What the fuck is wrong with Democrats, that they can’t agree to stand up and oppose Bush, when over half the country wants his idiocies reined in?
Do they genuinely believe that they can’t fight until they’re in power? Because if they *won’t* fight, they’ll never *get* power.
Rayne @ 27
Wow, I amazed you can get words on the page in your condition. *g*
OT: From our friends at Blah3
Real Live Computer Geeks Look At Diebold
Linky
Analysis of the machine, in light of real election procedures, shows that it is vulnerable to extremely serious attacks. For example, an attacker who gets physical access to a machine or its removable memory card for as little as one minute could install malicious code; malicious code on a machine could steal votes undetectably, modifying all records, logs, and counters to be consistent with the fraudulent vote count it creates. An attacker could also create malicious code that spreads automatically and silently from machine to machine during normal election activities — a voting-machine virus. We have constructed working demonstrations of these attacks in our lab. Mitigating these threats will require changes to the voting machine’s hardware and software and the adoption of more rigorous election procedures.
PDF here.
Diebold is trying their darndest to disappear this report.
CHS…you’ve got mail
Andrew J @25:
Well dissected. I agree with your view of the Establishment Media’s spoon fed take on congressional Democrats.
However, given the amount of vote-swapping and poor calculation so many Democrats have employed over the past 5 years while trying not to appear “oppositionally-Democratic,” the article touches an extremely raw nerve.
I hope the Democratic caucus’s take on this issue is in complete sync with your analysis of the situation and that I am completely wrong.
slainte,
cl
It appears like the Democratic political strategists are the mirror image of the Neocon War/Military/Death strategists. Cannot shift and adjust, cannot face reality, cannot see it’s necessary to do so, will not question their failures no matter how disastrous, etc. and so on.
Dr. Bong @ 37
THIS is what I just sent Christy!
This video is scary. This is the very thing that will make everything we do irrelevant. Watch the video.
Stephen Parrish, that is hopeful. But what does it mean for their post-9/11 unitary executive?
Dr. Bong @
37
I first saw this yesterday (I think Raw story, but not sure) and I think it may be the death knell we sorely need. The story will go viral.
Wow - I just realized I got a three linky post in w/o moderation. wazzup widdat?
:-)
Lotus!
Tullamore Dew for you!
slainte,
cl
The Democrats can’t even do the media message right. They are letting the Republicans and the media say “the Democrats are against wiretapping terrorists.” End of story. Nothing. Nada. Zilch.
No mention of WARRANTLESS wiretapping of AMERICAN CITIZENS.
Geez Louise. The Democrats deserve to lose.
Sorry not trying to hijack the thread but..
Brad’s Blog has a exhaustive post on this diebold machine hijacking.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3467
HopeSAT — ain’t that the truth? That Diebold machine may be the same one that [can’t remember name] took apart on HuffPo. But a memory key is sooooo much easier and faster to use.
I didn’t read the full text detailed report, but it occurred to me it would be just as easy to dope a machine using a programmed voter access card, too. Unless the clerk/Secretary of State questioned every bit of hardware and software for failsafe, it would be just as easy as slipping in a voter card.
Heck, if you recruited enough people in a precinct and gave them voter access cards, you could make it even simpler assuming no print out is provided at any time until the tabulation at the end of the day. In a tight race, it might only take a couple handfuls of recruited voters to “fix” the vote.
Anybody familiar with this machine, use it in your precinct? Do you get a print out each time you vote, or only on tabulation?
For some nice bashing of democrats and Islam and those “Islamofascists”, tune into cspan 2– Ensign and DeMint so far.
Karl Rove must be proud of his boys.
you get a print-out and the the paper trail is hinky too. The ‘Virus’ destroys itself and LEAVES no trace.
Andrew J, I saw another example of that on the NBC News last night. Brian Williams cuts away to Tim Russert to discuss their new polling. One of the questions was framed something like,
Do you favor a Republican Congress that will stick with this war or a Democratic Congress even though they don’t stand for anything?
I was blown away.
Andrew - look at the Dems on the cluster bomb vote then sell the narrative that they are willing to stand for something. Look at the dems on the Hayden vote, the Gonzales vote, Alito cloture - then sell the narrative that they are willing to stand for something.
**********
Wiretaps:
1. President is not only violating the law, but as per a Judge in Michigan with precedent behind her ruling - violating the Consitution. Specter and the Republicans need to have it put to them like that -
Why does the Republican Party want to violate their oath of office by ordering the NSA o violate the fourth amendment? FISA or not, a Court has said the warrantless wiretaps of Americans on American soil violates the Fourth Amendment and Congress is forcing an agency of the Federal Govt to violate the COnstitution with Specter’s legislation. Republicans ORDER NSA to Violate Constitution - that’s the header.
There is no reason to order a covert program that violates the Constitution unless you are doing things you should not be doing.
2. Tribunals. Where to begin? Let’s start with this: The question isn’t what you should be doing with guilty terrorists; it IS what you should be doing with innocent people who we mistakenly detain. Because we have those and part of the reason WHY we have them is because Bush ordered violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
Now they want to cover up the fact that they have tortured, kidnapped and detained the “wrong” people. Has anyone asked any of the “mistakes” to testify? The Uighars? el-Masri? How do you know what procedures you need until you look into the eye of what you screwed up? And put Rumsfeld under oath to testify that the only detainees were the “worst of the worst” and be willing to take action against him for lying to COngress if he does lie.
The message that is not getting out at all (even in the ‘well, we need these rules to protect our soldiers if they are captured’)in the discussion is that we need the rules to keep from screwing up more. Not to “protect terrorists” but to prevent us from kidnapping and torturing people who have nothing to do with terrorism. The protection for our soldiers isn’t what happens if al-Qaeda ends up with them; it is what happens to them if the Iraqi government or the Italian government or a European Union tribunal etc. end up with them in custody and they have commited criminal acts.
And BTW - anyone who has seen the NSA “talking points” and doesn’t understand EXACTLY how we ended up with huge chunks of Americans thinking Hussein was behind 9/11 is blind. A uniformed officer using an American agency to propagandize Americans — there just is not much left in the way of anything or anyone to admire anymore, is there?
The video available on the linky (one mine, one Dr. Bong’s, same vid) shows how ONE machine can infect many, how it is untraceable and can be done by one person in one minute.
Can a Senator put a “hold” on this bill to run the clock out on this session of congress?
Can anyone tell me the number of the Senate bill that Specter and his committe are shopping around? The one with that guts the War Crimes Act and what’s left of the Geneva Convention.
I’m a novice at this, but getting some links to where all the bills are listed would be a help.
someone over at DKos mentioned that if the Princeton-developed Diebold hacking code somehow mangaged to find its way onto the Internet, it would compromise legally every such Diebold machine and nullify its usability during any election. Is this so?
Chris @
24
This is the correct yellow-bellied bastard. This fucking timidity sickens me. It’s why I REALLY hope some well-heeled Dem in California who’lll be willing to stand up to those chickenshit Repukes will run for something whe Boxer’s seat is up for grabs. Given her almost total capitulation in the wake of Joe Lieberman’s defeat, she needs to have a bullseye put on her back.
It’s pathetic, isn’t it.
Time and time again these Democrats make me want to just stop fighting.
wow, I am SO prescient!
previous thread I went into a rant on the wiretapping issue, said it was off topic, I’d be epu’d and repost it again, here it is, the very first thread and it’s RIGHT ON topic.
anyway;
about the wire tapping without warrants
THE DEMOCRATS WILL LOOSE THIS DEBATE UNLESS THEY ATTACK FROM THE CORRECT PERSPECTIVE
we MUST put a face on what’s going on
we MUST change the way we present this to voters, because especially uneducated voters will say, “so what, I’m not doing anything wrong”
so we have to change perspective;
‘without anyone to check to see officers in the government are stealing, there WILL be officials that steal”
now, that’s a weakened version of what I REALLY want them to say, but they are rue to go on the attack and THAT is pretty darned benign
if we use ‘we must protect the constitution”, we will FAIL, if we use “there must be oversight”, we will FAIL
we must use;
“THERE HAS TO BE A METHOD TO PREVENT STEALING, STEALING OF OUR CORPORATE SECRETS, OUR FINANCIAL CONTACTS, OUR PRIVATE INFORMATION”, we MUST make sure the information gathered was for national security and NOT FOR PERSONAL GAIN”
that’s the way we MUST present the issue
Urban Pirate at 58 — bite your tongue. There is hope for a spine, we just need to remind them that they have one — and that we have their backs if they use it. They have spent too much time listening to consultants, and too little time realizing that the public wants real people and not cardboard cutouts. They are beginning to realize that, but we need to keep pushing.
karnak12 — believe the bill is SB2453; Wired Mag has an article as well as a link to the bill in PDF format.
I note the bill has no formal name, at least on the PDF provided.
Drafting a fax to send to Levin’s local office. This shortcuts the handling process, no screening for anthrax, cuts through the email clutter.
Phonecalls are great, but I want to be highly detailed.
Will also send the same to Stabenow’s office. Text of Gore’s speech will feature highly, as will Youngstown.
As Glenn points out, most Americans want Bush to get warrants before seeing if al Qaeda’s calling, despite what papers like WaPo report. What lamebrained consultant is telling Democrats to go for the “good German” vote?
Bush agreed to brief a 7-member subcommittee on the spy program. He’s stiffed it! Now Specter touts Bush’s assurances he’ll take his program to FISA court. Does Congress’s health plan cover Stockholm syndrome?
The Feingold[-Specter] bill meets all of Bush’s needs, proclaimed and imagined. No hearings were held to examine the real need. Another oversight lapse.
My bet: Bush is pulling a Nixon, spying on the press, imagined foes, and politicians, and fears having to pay for it. That’s a key reason behind his War Crimes Exoneration Act. That’s why he needs it, and fast!
But as pointed out by Jordan Paust in The Jurist, Congress may be prosecutable under international law if it helps him do this.
Maybe they’ll think twice about that. Just think: no more foreign junkets. What could be worse to a member of Congress?
I’m thinking of marketing a rubber stamp in the shape of a removable Capitol Dome over an inkpad. Any backers?
well good morning again,
a very grumpy cbl here - was planning on a thread with lots of b day cake/mextaxa/ and the 4-1-1 from the Big Dog meet up - but nooooo! you make us go all activist and shit . . .
well I’ve already called those worthless dead enders I’m stuck with for senators (Hutchison & Cornyn)
‘Hello, this is the cobbler lady again - just letting you know I am sending out faxes/letters to each of your 5 largest contributors and their Corporate Counsel - asking them if they trust Richard Cheney not to supply their competitors with any and all of their proprietary info gleaned from the NSA handiwork - you know, the work that the Good Senator supports!’
and then I blasted 10 faxes
jesus christ I hate these people! stomps off towards coffee pot . . .
It’s not hard for the Corporate Media and the GOP to convince the public that most Democratic politicians are yellow, compromised, sniveling, scared, and helpless, is it. All they have to do is relentlessly smear the ones with guts, like Feingold and Murtha for instance, and all the others will run away to go potty.
“It’s the Election, Stupid”
IRAQ-KATRINA-DESTROYING SOCIAL SECURITY
Stick with the “We can do elections” spirit of Lamont.
Pound the issues that win for Democrats.
Keep it simple.
Six weeks.
IRAQ-KATRINA-DESTROYING SOCIAL SECURITY
“It’s the Election, Stupid”
Well, I just called the editor at our local paper and he is very interested in this Princeton article.
Our local papers is a great place to stir up some more interest in this issue…….
cbl at 63 — am having a bit of trouble with the couple of photos I wanted to post for you guys in the meeting dish thread, so I’m waiting for tech help before I can put them up. Patience. *g*
Oh, and happy birthday to lotus before I forget. :)
If there’s a lesson from the ABC/Disney work last week, it’s that pressure points are critical to forcing action . . .
(1) Former administration legal folks could really lean on BushCo in ways that would make them squirm. Colleen Rowley could really be great in standing up against this nonsense, especially if she could team up with Alberto Mora and other lawyer-types who left the DOJ, DOD, and other parts of the administration. Get her in front of a camera on this, and YouTube it to death! As a candidate for the House and former FBI whistleblower, she’s got credentials to stand up to the “spineless Dem” allegations, and if we’re behind her, we can spread it elsewhere.
(2) Republicans in tough races. Where, for example, does James Webb stand on this? No mention of it on his website, but if he is opposed to making Bush the new King George, that could make life VERY uncomfortable for Allen. “Does Viriginia want to be known both for leading the break away from King George in 1776 and also for bringing back King George in 2006?” Where’s Chaffee? What other Republicans are vulnerable on this?
You see where this goes . . . who are their big corporate donors? Do they really want the government listening in on their corporate conversations, when the person listening at the NSA today might be working for their competitors tomorrow? (Look at the revolving door between the pentagon and military contractors, if you think this doesn’t happen.) Pressure on donors could produce pressure on politicians - check out Scholastic and American Airlines.
Pressure points. Hit them, hit them hard, and hit them repeatedly.
What the hell are the Dems afraid of? If they think they can wait until after the elections to do their fighting, they may very well snatch deafeat from the jaws of victory yet again.
And another OT, but damn, am I going to have to boycott Google now?
If you’re a dirty tricks and slimey opps afficionado a chill most certainly just went down your spine.
DCI, if you’re not familiar with them, is an interlocking group of companies which is the phony seed bed for most noxious astroturf organizing and general bamboozlement in contemporary politics.
If Google is in bed with the very worst elements of the GOP, at this particular point in our history … well, that’s an ugly thought indeed.
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 41
not irrelevant. slaves didn’t need to vote to end slavery. blacks didn’t need the vote in to get the voting rights act. women didn’t need the vote to get the vote.
election stealing is VERY important. but do NOT think it is that without fair elections we are powerless.
Hmmm. While I agree that the Dems are usually spineless, I’m still willing to give them a little time on FISA and military tribunals. On FISA, I think some of the saner Republicans are going to realize that there will eventually be a Democrat in the Whitehouse, and it may not be a good idea to give him (or her) access to everyone else’s phone calls. As for the military tribunals, those are already being opposed by…the military. When it comes up for a vote, the Dems can just call on Republicans to support the military and oppose the tribunals. At this point, I don’t see much use in wasting political capital on either of these issues. I’d focus on Murtha’s resolution to fire Rumsfeld.
meta @
42
You’ve raised a fine question that the lawyers here can answer at greater length. As we await their comments, I would like to say more:
It would appear, subject to more comments from the lawyers here, that the Schechter Poultry decision handed down by the Supreme Court and mentioned in the Wikipedia entry from which I quoted also precludes the use of presidential signing statements to create laws.
Should the material contained in my 6:27 am comment not directly answer your question, we can look further: although the Hamdan decision handed down by the Supreme Court is not mentioned in the aforementioned Wikipedia entry, it does limit the powers of the unitary (or unilateral) executive you mentioned.
All we (and the Democrats, supposedly) want is OVERSIGHT.
I think the public would be the first to agree that oversight is sorely needed w/ this dangerous, incompetent bunch of clowns.
I think this should tie directly into what the 2006 elections are all about.
I think the Dems are fucking assholes (pardon the language) if they dont take a stand on this.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 60
Thank you for that, Christy. This place keeps me sane and gives me hope.
Elected Democrats,
What’s not to understand that you should do the RIGHT (as in MORAL) thing and the best will follow. Gawd, you are more afraid of Rove’s blowback than the Republicans are of terrorists. Fight the thugs or get out of the way.
The NSA “talking points” - it’s all politics all day, 24/7. Campaign, campaign, campaign. Raise money, raise money, raise money. But for 2 or 3, what have any of these people been doing the last 6 years? What have they accomplished for the good of this nation and its people? I’m sorry, this government takes the cake. Worst era ever.
When it comes to this moment, you’re either for the Constitution or against it. Why create tightropes when so much is at stake? Why compromise when the public doesn’t care if you are ever elected again? Go back and look at the Barbara Jordan video and see if that wakes you up.
christy:
I agree with your attitude of being sick of the limp-wristed “sit on the hands” approach of the Democrats. I raised this issue in a blog on Kos a few months back when Feingold showed BALLS and tried to censure Bushco. What happened? The Democrats got all pissy about him not “following protocol”. I asked where were the “leaders”: I call them “The Spineless Five”.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/31/154349/152
What was truly remarkable was the response of the so-called “liberals” and “democrats” who SUPPORTED this sit-on-the-hands approach and blathered on about how Feingold needed to follow protocol, and respect the leadership, and blah blah blah.
This ATTITUDE (the tolerance of this crap and not demanding MORE from the Democrats) is what’s killing ANY opposition to Bush.
Until we demand more and push the Dems for action, we’ll simply get more of the same: more politics. Who gives a fuck today about who followed procedural rules in the Senate while Rome burned? All everyone remembers today is the inaction.
Rome is burning folks. Actually, its being remade into a fascist dictatorship. Time to get off our hands and asses and do something about it.
one thing that NEEDS to be made CLEAR to constituents
the president can do the searCH and THEN get the warrant
all they have to do is at some point in time show THAT THEY ARE NOT STEALING, it doesn’t have to be before the search, it can be after the search
BUT THEY MUST SHOW US THEY AREN’T STEALING
Landrieu called them ranting partisan colleagues and says that America is tired of the boneheaded Republican leadership that has gotten the “GWOT” all wrong.
cbl @ 63 LOL!
Happy birthday lotus!!!
Christy @ 60– I hear you, but it sure feels crummy when they don’t seem to have our backs. They surely have to know what we want by now. Harry Reid was on Newshour last nite and was as squishy as can be.
Filibuster, obstruct, do whatever you have to do to stop this right now.
Sorry if this has already been said, but exactly how do the Democrats keep something from getting out of committee, unless they can get enough GOP votes to overcome their minority position? If they all voted against sending the offending bills out to the floor, how have they caved? I mean, they only have eight votes, to the GOP’s ten, so what exactly are they supposed to do?
In my opinion, I think all of this committee work is a half-assed way of making themselves look like they are all taking on security issues – with varying degrees of resistance to the administration, all of it geared with an eye toward the November elections and how their positions will look in someone’s attack ad, and how they can leverage their own position to their advantage – and no one is counting on the very real fact that this abominable legislation could actually get passed, and the country could end up in really sad shape as a result.
It’s pretty sad when the concept of doing the right thing has been lost for so many of these people.
does anyone have direct contact with Feingold?
I would LOVE him to use this new direction in objecting to the warrantless spying on Americans
Frank @ 7:18 am -
Didn’t you mean to say “I’d focus on Murtha’s resolution to fire
MurthaRumsfeld”?OT- How about some good news?
Check out KO’s ratings for Tuesday night. I’m not positive but I think that’s the biggest number I’ve seen since I’ve been tracking it since last November ; )
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/
Since voting machines are liable to malicious intrusion, this means election fraud should be of equal concern to both parties. In theory an election can be stolen by Republicans as easily as it can be stolen by Democrats.
So why are Democrats the only party showing concern about voting machine fraud?
The simple answer is that the Republicans enjoy a virtual monopoly on election fraud and have no fear of retaliation since their goal to become the permanent majority is close to realization. As far as the Republicans are concerned, their goal of there never again being a Democratic majority or president is well within reach.
Permanent one party rule is totalitarian whether you call it fascist, communist, conservative, rightwing, or just Republican. What the Republicans don’t yet realize is that they are on a path to destroying themselves along with the rest of the country.
The United States is all the weaker for being a one-party “democracy” and as such is ill-suited to meet the global challenges of the future.
With the ascendancy of George Bush, the days of the United States being the pre-eminent power in the world is gone, gone, gone.
OK, somebody upthread suggests that we can hold Congress accountable if they try and pass this bogus legislation. But is that so? Are they the branch of government that makes laws? Yeah! Perhaps my question is better stated as, can we hold them accountable unless they put forward an amendment to the Constitution? Good question.
FDL Legal Department - Can Congress pass this without officially changing the Constitution? Is that a stupid question?
Creeping Truth, it’s Specter-Feinstein, not Feingold.
Robert Byrd had a great speech yesterday on the floor of the Senate; here’s the closing graf and more at the link– it is worth reading.
amen!
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0913-32.htm
OT - TPM Muckraker is headlining this banner:
IAEA Calls U.S. Iran Nuke Intel Report “Dishonest”
Christy,
THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking this up. I have been just paralized with dread over these two bills. A really important thing to note about the McCain compromise military tribunal bill—and it is a HUGE HUGE HUGE problem– is that it deprives the courts of all jurisdiction, even over ppending cases, that involve these detainess.
First off, I think that sounds pretty unconstitutional to me.
Second, unless or until that provision is overturned, there is no reason for Bushco to think they ever need to follow the McCain compromise law, because there is no way to enforce it in the courts.
CRAZY WORLD
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