What is it going to take to make mainstream America realize that as long as we are voting on Diebold machines, our votes are vulnerable to tampering and fraud? It was late last night and deep in the comments on this post when Nate from Get in Their Face!! broke through with this bulletin about Princeton University’s Center for Information Technology and their demonstration of just how easy it is to rig an election on Diebold’s voting machines.
Security Analysis of the Diebold AccuVote-TS Voting Machine:
Executive SummaryAriel J. Feldman, J. Alex Halderman, and Edward W. Felten
The Diebold AccuVote-TS and its newer relative the AccuVote-TSx are together the most widely deployed electronic voting platform in the United States. In the November 2006 general election, these machines are scheduled to be used in 357 counties representing nearly 10% of registered voters. Approximately half these counties — including all of Maryland and Georgia — will employ the AccuVote-TS model. More than 33,000 of the TS machines are in service nationwide.
This paper reports on our study of an AccuVote-TS, which we obtained from a private party. We analyzed the machine’s hardware and software, performed experiments on it, and considered whether real election practices would leave it suitably secure. We found that the machine is vulnerable to a number of extremely serious attacks that undermine the accuracy and credibility of the vote counts it produces.
Watch the video and see if you don’t break out all over in tinfoil.
This morning, I woke up and saw that HuffPo was running with the story, but as far as the MSM outlets, there’s been nary a peep. Is Diebold paying off the major news outlets? Why won’t this story get any traction? It is clearly one of the most important issues of our era, given that the very foundation of our democracy is at risk. It doesn’t matter how hard we work, write, and fight if our votes won’t be accurately counted, does it?
There are some people who have been all over this story from the very beginning. BradBlog is one (although I wish to god Brad would do something about his blog’s eye-punishing format) and Black Box Voting is another. Both these sites have been working tirelessly to raise awareness of the dangers of Diebold machines. So, where’s the national outrage?
And why is it that only Democrats seem to be concerned about this? Is it because Diebold has deep and abiding ties with the GOP? Maybe my tin-foil hat-band is cutting off the circulation to my brain, but it’s almost too easy to picture the Republicans smugly assuring each other that nothing we do will matter come November because they know that they can manipulate the vote count however they like.
Meanwhile in Ohio, Diebold Inc. is one of the companies vying to sell electronic voting machines in that state. Diebold and its CEO have strong Republican ties, specifically to the Bush administration.
A recent article by Julie Carr Smyth in The Cleveland Plain Dealer reported that the head of Diebold is also a top fundraiser for President Bush’s re-election. In a recent fund-raising letter Diebold’s chief executive Walden O’Dell said he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
That article was from 2003, and we see how things worked out in Ohio in the 2004 election.
My state (Georgia) is entirely Diebold for voting these days. Is it a coincidence that since the implemetation of Diebold machines here that Georgia elected its first Republican governor since the Reconstruction? Or that Republicans have carried each election since then?
So, what do we do? I have written to Cathy Cox, Georgia’s Secretary of State multiple times asking what they plan to do to ensure fair elections. Each time, I got a mealy-mouthed form letter. ("The office of the Secretary of State is doing everything it can to blah de blah diddy blah…") They have promised us paper receipts, but I’m not convinced. Who says that what the little slip of paper says and what my plastic key card says are the same thing? Couldn’t a crooked (or hacked) machine say one thing on paper and another on the card?
This is an issue where I wonder if citizen action is going to be enough. It’s the kind of thing where you register your concerns and they pat you on the head and imply that you’re being ridiculous, but given the goat-fuck that the Maryland primary turned out to be, I don’t think this is a small problem, and I don’t think it’s going away.
So, this is what I propose we do. Spotlight this post to anyone you think will listen. We need to raise enough of a stink on this that the big media outlets sit up and take notice. We did it with that stupid 9/11 movie. We can do it with voting machines. The legitimacy of our democracy is in question here. We need to demand paper ballots. All that equipment is still sitting in warehouses all over the country. They need to pull it out, dust it off, and have it ready by November 7th. Anything less than that is a direct attempt to disenfranchise American voters.
Send the Princeton video to everyone you can think of. This should be a bipartisan issue, but it looks like it’s going to fall to our side (as usual) to demand accountability, transparency, and accuracy in our democratic process. This is too important an issue to let slide and hope that somehow it will all work out to a happy ending. The cabal of murderers and thugs in the White House and the Republican Congress (oh, and Joe Lieberman) are going to try anything they can think of to keep our voices from being heard and our votes from being counted. We have to strike first rather than waiting until after the elections. Time is running out. We have to mobilize NOW.
So, go, Firedogs, go!! We can make a difference.




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FITZ!
Makes you long for a hanging chad, doesn’t it.
TRex!
You’re up early tonight!
This morning, I woke up and saw that HuffPo was running with the story, but as far as the MSM outlets, there’s been nary a peep. Is Diebold paying off the major news outlets? Why won’t this story get any taction? It is clearly one of the most important issues of our era, given that the very foundation of our democracy is at risk. It doesn’t matter how hard we work, write, and fight if our votes won’t be accurately counted, does it?
Why. Won’t. The. Democrats. Push. This?
It makes me completely nuts. If they jump up and down and scream about this, how are the Republicans going to defend voter purges, voter intimidation, and unverifiable voting?
All they can do is accuse the Democrats of being tinfoil-wearing sore losers, which can easily be countered with, “We’re not saying 2004 was stolen, but lots of people are. Shouldn’t the greatest democracy on earth have elections that cannot be questioned? We would think the Republicans would *want* everyone to know that they achieved their electoral victories honestly.”
Death to Diebold!
That’s German for “The Diebold, the.”
Oh, and they could also point out the irony of how the Republicans claim to be so committed to spreading democracy abroad while dismantling it at home.
yada
TRex!
I am amazed (once again) at how big a deal this is *and* the how silent of the MSM has been. This is a pefect thing to Spotlight, especially to everyone’s local media outlets.
BTW Glenn Greenwald is reporting that Sen. Reid in a conference call said that the Specter NSA cave-in legislation is dead. Hope he’s right.
Our new machines — you make your own ballot with #2 pencils and a ballot much like standardized tests in school, then you feed it through the reader. Gives ‘em a paper ballot with no chance of ‘hanging chads’, plus the reader counts it. And no chance of a paper misfeed, whatever, it’s pretty much a sheet reader, which is fairly idiot-proof.
Missouri got something right. Now if we can just flush Talent… (last Friday he had the coward-in-chief in for a fund-raiser, they blocked at least 3 square miles around the Plaza plus all the corridor between the airport and the Plaza (I-35, the main central passage through the middle of town) from about 4 to 6:30. My normal 30-minute drive on surface streets took over an hour while I searched eastward to find a place where I could cross Brush Creek to my neighborhood in midtown–I cussed a lot, and I don’t want to think about what the people that had to try and commute across that void thought).
Being from NH where the Bush/Rove/Mehlman/Abramoff machine held hands and colluded to jam phones to prevent the elderly and the infirm from getting to polls by tying up GOTV lines I am always disgusted at the “purple finger” triumphalism by the Republicans.
The same pricks that were ridiculing elderly and black and poor voters in Florida always seem to wax so warmly about how great it is to see Iraqis voting.
Also, looks like helmut head Bob Ney is pleading guilty in the Abramoff sleazarama.
Oy, Ney!
-GSD
Also, the Republicans will be the first ones to tie up elections in court if they think they can squeeze out a victory….
good point T. i mean who cares if you got more votes and the other guy wins b/c the machines are programmed to vote otherwise.
OT: here’s a quote of Bush’s today pleading before Congress to pass a bill which would redefine the intent of Article III of the Geneva’s Convention:
“If there’s not clarity, if there’s ambiguity… the programme won’t go forward and the American people will be endangered,” he said.
DEATH BY AMBIGUITY.
Only quoted by BBC News
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5347564.stm
EPU’d from the last one:
Big by-election in Ontario today. The riding is on the west side of downtown Toronto, recently vacated by a candidate for leader of the federal Liberals. He had dominated the riding for 3 or 4 elections, gathering up to 60% of the electorate in a three or four party system.
The Liberals ran a city councillor, the Conservatives ran former city councillor, the Greens ran their party leader, and the New Democrats (social democrats) ran a popular United Church minister. The Libs panicked and went negative. The NDP won with 40%.
The polls closed at 8. All the results were in before 9, AND THE BALLOTS WERE PAPER!
Here’s the live blogging.
What’s up with that, Trex? They wouldn’t be the MSM if they reported the news. It’s not sufficiently infotaining or Bush buffing.
Look, it’s very simple. Diebold makes ATMs. How often do you think those machines fuck up?
Now consider how many times we’ve heard about electronic voting machines fucking up. Now consider what we’ve heard – repeatedly – about how vulnerable they are to election stealing. Like the “oh, so close – but don’t cry about it, LOSERS!” kind of election STEALING.
Ther are only two reasons the election machines could be so poorly designed: profit, and perfidy.
Either way, the message is clear: all over the country. forces openly biased towards Republicans have subverted the very mechanics of democracy, with deliberation and malice aforethought.
Throw the bums out. Where’s Osama?
Hugh @ 15
Spotlight, spotlight, spotlight!!
I was taken aback when I walked into my local precinct polling place for the August primary and was asked whether I wanted a paper ballot, or wanted to try the new electronic machines. For a number of years, my county had been using machines that visually scan hand-marked ballots, but this was clearly something different.
Since there weren’t any hot primary races, I was not too concerned about whether my vote would be counted, and I was curious, so I opted for the electronic voting machine. Sure enough, it turned out to be Diebold. It worked by pushing “buttons” on a screen, and there was no paper ballot or receipt involved.
The county commission where I live has a 2-1 Democratic majority. There was a story in the local paper quoting the county commission chairman, a Democrat, on why the county had chosen to use paperless Diebold machines rather than ones that would produce a permanent record. His explanation was that the county saved about $1000 per machine by going with the Diebolds.
I have not yet contacted the county commission chairman about why he would jeopardize the validity of our votes just to save the county some money. TRex’s post will enable me to do so in a more informed manner.
Old Hitler Youth himself, Pope Benedict is fanning more flames and helping to create the new schizm based on religion.
These religious kooks, Muslim, Christian and Jewish are going to be the ruin of the planet.
Comfortable red Prada shoes.
-GSD
finally delurking to put a slightly different angle on this problem. the progressive community is addressing the first issue..that the voting machines are faulty, without thinking the solution through. paper ballots are the first step.
i suggest the second step is to form an open source voting machine project similar to the linux or firefox software projects. the hardware and software would be peer tested and the bugs found and corrected.
Folks, I would be the first to scream if the Princeton video had legs. But,
I am a Data Security Analyst. Have been for 10 years.
I give the video an F-. It appears to be propaganda as opposed to a scientific presentation. They may have been trying to create a CEO-friendly presentation, but I’m guessing if they turned this in for credit they got the F-.
If presented as evidence the FBI would have left the building.
I worry about election fraud as much or worse than most people. But this is NOT the smoking gun. Don’t lose sleep until we have more info.
i suggest the second step is to form an open source voting machine project similar to the linux or firefox software projects. the hardware and software would be peer tested and the bugs found and corrected.
Votezilla?
The bottle made him do it!
“People with detailed knowledge of the investigation said Mr. Ney had entered an in-patient rehabilitation facility in recent days for treatment of alcoholism…”
Wow, the Republican Party is in full on collapse…now if we can get the mainstream media to run with that story line.
-GSD
Christy, back at ya.
GSD @ 23
Don’t hold this against Ney. Entering treatment is not a collapse, but hopefully a new beginning. Rip him for his actions, but not his entering treatment.
Does anyone know what the status of Robert Kennedy Jr. and Mike Papantonio’s Qui Tam suit is? We’re past the 60 days this article mentions, and I heard Mike Papantonio on Randi Rhodes last month say that he couldn’t discuss any details until the 60 days are past.
http://www.inthesetimes.com/si…..icle/2750/
Judd Brown @ 25
Agreed. We wouldn’t laugh at him if he went for treatment of Parkinson’s or leukemia. Addiction and alcoholism is a disease and deserves to be treated as such.
whoopsie doodle! hit some sort of time out error on spotlight… I’ll go back and try again…
TRex @ 27
Fair enough, but what do we do when Republicanism is finally recognized as a form of mental illness?
If you live in California, please get out and vote for Debra Bowen for Secretary of State. And get your friends out to vote, too.
If you live anywhere in America and care about fair elections, please get out your checkbooks and support Debra Bowen’s campaign.
She really gets the danger of Diebold and is campaigning for a paper trail for all votes.
She’s the real deal with a zeal for protecting the rights of voters and consumers. Debra Bowen’s the name, fairness for all is her game.
VictorLaszlo @
6
actually, it’s “the, the bold, the”
What’s funny is that anyone believed computers could be a SECURE voting mechanism in the first place. Sheesh! Sell them a bridge while you’re at it. To paraphrase Asimov (or some other smarty-pants) “technology” is the word we use for things that don’t work yet. At least you have to stuff a ballot box and forge or lose individual votes. With a Diebold machine, you can beam East Texas down into Connecticut by keying in one undocumented API hook.
Perhaps we should all e-mail Keith Olbermann and ask him to do a story on it.
Just a thought.
Judd Brown @ 21
It’s not a “scientific presentation.” It’s an educational video, if you will, explaining their study to the layman. So go read the study itself and critique that.
I have a lot of sympathy for Bob Ney. The Republican Party drives me to drink, too.
Eli @ 29
I’m not sure about illness, but it certainly reflects laziness. We are in the process of fighting back against lazy and unconcerned citizens.
OK – seemingly Diebold and its supporters have won this issue. We are stuck, at least for the near future, with these corruptible machines. Accordingly war has been proclaimed over our voting system. What to do? We, the informed, can continue to know and to gripe. Big deal. We lose. The Republican “government”, against all logic and odds, is retained in the 2006 election. Another stolen election. While we howl, while we continue to watch YouTube movies, while we further knuckle under and lose our country and our world. So perhaps it is time to consider another way – to fight fire with fire. The machines are corruptible – no doubt. Perhaps the winner will be the one who does the best job of corrupting them. This is the new playing field. Wake up. We ultimately are smarter than them, more technologically astute, so let us be the ones that best pervert the machines – or maybe just repervert them, to gain the advantage. This is perhaps the only way that we can take back our democracy. Think about it ………
this is the most importamt issue we face.
Getting out of Iraq and making amends to the Iraqi people, prosecuting spy-exposing traitors, rebuilding New Orleans, securing our ports, nailing the criminals behind 9-11, providing universal healthcare, paying down the deficit, taking care of our veterans, restoring our international reputation, addressing trade imbalances, campaign reform,, alternative energy, global warming, media monopoly, nuclear proliferation, the genocide in Darfur, et-fucking-cetera….
None of these issues will be addressed until we have a fair vote. The GOP has no interest in a fair vote, and barring a paper trail, there will be no fair vote.
Will someone write to Donna Edwards and suggest that she run as an “Independent Democrat”. I mean, if HoJo can flout primary results, then everyone should.
Eli said Votezilla?
How about Talahappy?
joysness @ 33
Its a great thought! Spotlight this to Keith and a few others for good measure.
I’d like some of the Diebold machines used in Ohio in ‘04 to be recovered and subjected to some intense scrutiny – the kind of technical reconstruction Christy has referenced when the most odious criminals think they have scrubbed a hard drive without a trace.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 41
Electiunix.
When entering treatment is a pretext for excusing criminal political acts it is a fraud and a ruse.
As with Limbaugh, fuck him. Limbaugh and most Republicans always mock treatment. They want people to be “punished” for wrongdong, up until they are caught, then they demand compassion and privacy and understanding.
Yes, if Bob is going to sober up and he needs it bravo! If as with Limpbaugh it is merely a cover for him to continue shredding the constitution, may he gargle in his own vomit.
-GSD
op99 @ 34
If you are comfortable with Ted Stevens’ educational presentation of the Internet, as were most our ‘counterparts’, so be it.
I know better, as I’m sure most of us here do. I’m here to reassure people here to not panic.
‘Trust, but verify’ is our motto.
TRex at 46 — do not even joke about that — it is a federal criminal offense that the FBI takes VERY seriously. And I mean VERY seriously.
op99 #34 — thanks for that.
I work in IT, and I guess the educational video was enough for me to see the system might be hackable; I have a more than reasonable doubt and elections should not be prone to reasonable doubt.
Additionally, although the video doesn’t point out or discuss a second opportunity for hacking, there is one right there in the video. That’s more than enough reasonable doubt for me.
Put it this way: if this was a Point-of-Sale device, could I trust it based on what I saw in the video?
Um, no — not without a secondary source of validation.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 48
Unless you’re a Republican, of course.
Christy Hardin Smith @
47
I wasn’t joking, but I deleted the comment anyway.
TRex @ 40
Heck Yah!
Sorry, I should have given attibution to this article:
persiflage & piffle @ 26
Eli at 52 — No, the FBI still takes it very seriously. But the GOP-controlled DoJ may have other thoughts about prosecuting it. But that doesn’t mean that the FBI doesn’t get to make your life absolute hell and find every single thing that you have ever done in your whole freaking life that may be prosecutable to try and pin something on you. And I’m not kidding. This is NOT something about which to joke. Ever.
TRex, I’ve had that thought about the record ballot vs the paper receipt ballot myself. (I’m glad that so far CA has paper ballots.)
——–
That website you linked to at “this bulletin” is pretty nearly unreadable. Very small light letters on a black background is a recipe for trouble: they need to use at least two points larger type and reverse the colors, or if they insist on light-on-dark, 4-to-6 points large and possibly even a different font. (I had to do ‘view source’ to find out what they were saying.)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 56
And there’s the problem. I get the sense that Republican electoral shenanigans are just kind of winked at, like prison rape. If election tampering was treated as a serious, felony, 10-15-years-in-a-federal-prison offense, I think dirty tricksters would be a lot harder to find.
P J Evans @ 56
Talk to Nate. He’ll probably turn up when his traffic spikes.
And on that sobering note, I really need to go to sleep. Huge thanks to Twisted Martini for helping me with the photo problem that I was having — yay! I can finally get a post up for you guys tomorrow with some meeting details (about which I have gotten many curious e-mails, so I promise to dish a bit and fill everyone in and stop torturing everyone who has asked about it…you can all thank Twisted for the assistance.)
Mark from the Spotlight Project just emailed me and I let him know that we’re having some problems with the site. He should be along to answer our questions before long.
Judd Brown @ 46
I have a feeling I should be thanking you for your concern, but I’ll hold off a bit on that.
G’night Christy.
-GSD
Mark – any luck figuring out what’s going on? could it be me? (my machine’s a tiny bit gimpy right now but I’ve never seen anything like this)
Good night, Redd. We love you like nuns love Jesus!
op99 @ 64
No troll am I.
I have the same goals as you, op99, so let’s work together. I’m one of the good guys.
Eli- VoteZilla is the one. And the open source idea is awsome!
Mark Steckel – On the spot! Thanks Mark
I don’t know that we can say the main stream media is not beginning to focus on this issue. Lou Dobbs has a segment on the MD race with the backdrop – “Democracy at Risk”
“Tonight Lou reported on the complete failure of the Maryland primary. Thousands of voters were forced to vote on ‘provisional’ ballots instead of the state’s vaunted Diebold Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) voting machines. At least those voters have a paper trail of their votes, but will they actually be counted? What a failure and it should all be laid at the feet of state Director of Elections Linda Lamone and Governor Ehrlich who both share responsibility for this failure.”
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3468
I noticed there was a piece on NPR and Fox News and articles about electronic voting in: The Christian Science Monitor, The Baltimore Sun, ComputerWorld, Washington Post, Washington Times. All the local news channels in the DC area (VA, MD) covered it.
I glanced at the USA Today left outside my hotel door this morning. The top right-hand article was titled: “Election Glitches Could Get Ugly”
“WASHINGTON — Eight weeks before elections that will decide control of Congress, a rush by state and local governments to prepare new voting machines and train poll workers is raising the possibility of trouble reminiscent of the 2000 presidential election standoff.
Problems range from delayed delivery of new equipment to an insufficient supply of trained technicians to fix anticipated problems, voting experts say.
Already this year, glitches have occurred in Arkansas, California, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas and West Virginia. Maryland became the latest on Tuesday, when technical problems, human errors and staff shortages led officials to keep some polls open an extra hour.”
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w…..OE=NEWISVA
Going back a couple or three days – OT for sure – I pulled the records for the PT911 producers/directors from IMDB and collated them – and I have to say, what a lot of stuff you never heard of before! Some of the movie and TV stuff is pretty well known, but I would say that at least 90 percent of it is the sort of thing that runs at 2 in the morning on your local independent station.
Folks, TRex has written an absolutely great post for Spotlighting. Unfortunately, the Internet gods are causing a DNS issue. This is affecting how long it takes the Spotlight system to request the blog post. It does not appear to be the Spotlight system itself that is the problem. And we are now where close to being overloaded.
I am investigating this and waking up my ISP.
I’m very sorry about the problems. :-(
P J Evans –
Don’t know where you are in CA, but up here in the Bay Area I’ve been voting on electronic machines for at least the last couple of elections.
(CA just redid the election laws, and our machines no longer qualify, as they don’t have an auditable paper trail, so I don’t know offhand what we’ll be using in Nov – I think optical scan, but I’m not sure.)
Mark says he’s on the case, so hopefully, we’ll have Spotlight capabilities again soon!
Mark Steckel @ 72
oh Mark! It’s not your fault! We will spotlight when everything is running right… have fun talking to the ISP! (i-yi-yi!)
OT
link
This NYTimes article on Ney says his plea agreement “would probably require Mr. Ney to serve at least some time in prison.”
Apparently the citizens of MD are calling for the blood of the election officials who decided to go with Diebold and resided over the primary disaster last night.
So – how can we strike while the iron is hot, knowing that we only have 8 weeks before a life or death Congressional?
Can we demand the option of paper ballots in every state? Because if we can – I think we should try to raise public awareness, i.e. if you want your vote to count, vote use paper ballot
From Brad Blog – Help America Vote on Paper “A 15-minute briefing video on the dangers to democracy posed by the privatization of the US election system and by electronic voting machines and what citizens can do about it.” http://www.eon3.net/pages/main.html
so a few years ago polite society, mainstream democrats, the Kerry campaign, all turned up their noses at discussion of vote theft.
It was in the realm of “conspiracy theory”, tinfoil hats, etc.
All along a few people were outraged, and worked hard to put together research and documentation, and their best points were easily dismissed with smug, unthinking, consensus reality dismissals.
Now it seems they had a point all along, the mainstream left, maybe even the kosniks, are waking up to the implications of a rigged system.
Let me gently and politely suggest that there may well be another area where dedicated researchers from all walks of life and across the political spectrum are having their valid questions glibly dismissed by those who are certain conventional wisdom will always be behind their point of view.
This school of thought is following the same arc towards legitimacy…
36%—very or somewhat likely that federal officials either participated in or allowed the attacks to happen to justify war in the Middle East
16%—believe preset explosives, not jet fuel, brought the Twin Towers down.
from a Scripps Howard poll, conducted July 6-24.
and Zogby:
Released: August 30, 2004
Half of New Yorkers Believe US Leaders Had Foreknowledge of Impending 9-11 Attacks and “Consciously Failed” To Act; 66% Call For New Probe of Unanswered Questions by Congress or New York’s Attorney General, New Zogby International Poll Reveals
So please don’t delete me, I’m not opening that can of worms, just see if the prediction holds, because I think the analogy can hold…
Peterr – LA. I’ve used the electronic ones a few times, mostly because I could walk a block from work and vote, instead of fighting evening traffic or going in late after voting very early. I’m going to go absentee for a while, because now I don’t really trust the machines. (The last time I used a machine, it was because a family emergency required that I be out of town on election day and it was way too late for an absentee ballot.)
Headed home.
More soon.
Should read – Congressional election
Margot @ 75
All those in favor of jail time (in spite of entering rehab) say NEY!!!
He needs to be accountable for his actions. NEY!!!
And, NEE!
Alison @
14
Hi Trex,
You were askin’ the other day, that we should throw out Stephen Harper and show you how it was done. This is how we do it here in Canada: hand counted paper ballots. I voted at 11 this morning. There were maybe 10 polling stations in my poll, which was a high school cafeteria. Each polling station consists of 2 cafeteria tables, 1 w the 2 observers and the list of registered voters, the other table has a cardboard privacy screen that has a golf pencil tied to it. Really! The votes are hand counted. When I asked the polling observer about it, he said, “What’s an optical scanner?”
Here when we talk about voting reform we mean proportional voting.
This is one of the key issues, bar none. Nothing else that we discuss, analyze, or agitate about will have lasting impact if we don’t ensure fair elections. We’ll win little battles or outright skirmishes, sure, but not the war. The 2000 election was FUBAR’ed, and we got Bush. The 2004 election was stolen, and we ended up with two extremely conservative Justices, which means the Supreme Court will continue to tilt rightward for at least another generation. What else will we lose next?
To my mind, this is THE issue. Get the elections running in an honest manner, and perhaps we can make permanent changes elsewhere. If we don’t get the voting system back on track… well, you’ve seen the last six years…
Judd Brown @ 82
Hopefully we can get a nice Shrubbery to keep him company there…
…(although I wish to god Brad would do something about his blog’s eye-punishing format)…
Ain’t that the truth. I’m jazzed about the issue, but I can’t bear to read more than a paragraph. What is he thinking? Does he need a blog style intervention?
Eli @ 84
Something that looks nice…
We’re back in business folks!
Two DNS servers died. There is a third one running as backup. Unfortunately, Spotlight was timing-out waiting on the first two. I changed the order that requests are made to the DNS servers, and all is good.
Again, apologies for the invonvience.
Mark
Mr. Sandman @ 84
This and the media are the two key issues for me. They are mechanisms of accountability, which separate democracy from tyrrany. They control the tilt of the playing field.
The media may be even more important, because it controls people’s perception of reality, which is the next best thing to controlling reality itself.
I would hope that where Diebold conflicts exist people would use absentee ballots, and I hope everyone continues to brand Diebold as untrustworthy and I mean EVERY day until the election.
Walking precincts here in CA-11 for McNerney, we are suggesting to voters that they request a permanent absentee ballot [and the campaign will arrange it for them if they want them to] to avoid having to use the Diebold machines, which our county uses exclusively. Many Dem voters here are aware of Diebold machine problems and planning to vote absentee until the Diebold machines are either fixed or replaced.
OT: Update on Military Commissions Act of 2006, aka, “the Administration’s Cruel Treatment and Torture Authorization Act.”
Per Friday’s Washington Post:
The surface issue is the rules of evidence for trying detainees, specifically for executing them (since the president can hold detainees arbitrarily long without benefit of hearings).
Beneath the surface, lurks the real issue, the protection of “interrogators,” both past and future, from war-crimes prosecution — after all, they were “just following orders” and pertectin’ us from terrists. I haven’t been able to find text for the McCain bill, but I have had some indications that it also contains some level of legal protection for interrogators.
On related matters, I strongly recommend the following article by Jack Balkin: “The great debate over the rule of law– and civic courage”, http://balkin.blogspot.com/#115825658306216790
radlib1 @
30
Sound’s like a great lady, but a paper *trail* is not the same as a paper *ballot*. The piece of paper should be the real, legal vote, not just a back-up record.
Judd Brown @ 67
Well, OK. But I was serious about reading the study. I hope someone with the professional background to critique it will do so.
as per diebold – look for a new book come mid-october. “What Happened in Ohio.” thorough, non-partisan, damning reporting. by steve rosefeld. he’s an old friend and i got to take a look at galleys. being rushed to print, was scheduled for january.
op99 @ 85
In the meantime, if you use Firefox, get the Aardvark extension. It lets you make any web page black-on-white in your browser.
The BradBlog workaround for the bad presentation is choosing the print option — it either comes up as black on white, or lets you choose the format.
Judd Brown @ 82,
For some reason that really pisses me off that he’s run off to rehab. Like that’s going to make it all OK?
Shmuck. That doesn’t work for criminals in Ohio’s courts (except for a judge’s son, for a while, but now even he’s in prison)so why should you be any different?
Well, this video is entirely plausible and/or probable.
I was able to attend one of the voting system hearings last year at the Secretary of State’s hearing room (there were so many people it was standing room only) when the Diebold TSX system was decertified, and many, many of the experts who testified were talking about situations just like this one in the video.
The experts weren’t lightweights either, many were computer scientists from UC Berkeley, UC Santa Cruz, Stanford …etc.; computer engineers from Fortune 500 hundred companies – all in agreement that these systems were easily hackable.
BTW that slimy hack SoS McPherson went and certified the Diebold TSX system last winter
It’s not who votes that counts, it’s who counts the votes
Please, Vote for Debra Bowen for Secretary of State
http://www.debrabowen.com/
Judd Brown @
86
but not too expensive
Very serious stuff going down tonight. But because Firedogs can multi-task, here’s a bit of birthday party for our own Lotus. I made Ms Lotus one of these this morning, but hey, it’s Late Night and bubbly won’t keep. Champers and gold all ’round! Trex too, if you care to, it’s virtual.
Have a most happy birthday, Mz Flowah!
I live in California. Have for over 30 years. I have never voted on a machine — Diebold or other. Oh, that’s right! CA must be much more low tech than Georgia.
In fact, in the last election, it was even MORE low tech than usual. We had pencil and paper. (As opposed to the stylus and paper (punch cards with chads). If CA can do it, the other states can, too.
NO machines. If we have to wait 2 more hours (or 2 more DAYS) to get the results, so be it.
o @ 96
Great to know about that. How do we find out more about it?
GSD @
45
Spot on GSD. I see your point.
I wonder if the guilty plea and the rehab signup are real mea culpas. But I know for a fact that the last thing they will help is his political career, so we’re good there.
GIHOV. Gargle in his own vomit. Can I use that? Classic.
The answer is really simple, so it will never happen. A Federal law which states “All elections which involve a canditate for Federal offices (i.e. House of Reps., the Senate, and the Presidency) which utilize Electronic voting, the machines used must provide a verifiable paper records of the vote, one copy of which goes to the voter and the other copy to the local board of elections in the voting District so computer tallies may be compared to the printed results of the computer vote.”
This is the first bill the Dems should introduce their first day of control and directly tell Bush that until this bill becomes law NO OTHER LEGISLATION WILL PASS, even if that means that the Government must shut down, soldiers go unpaid, but until we secure free and fair elections we are not a Democracy.
I know some will say, “What about the local elections? Can’t the Regressives manipulate those?” They can, and certainly will if possible, but no election board is going to say we will use these machines in the big elections but these other machines in the local ones, and obviously a state by state campaign will be launched as well to reform the laws.
Last thing, I’m sure there were some Diebold shenanigans in Ohio, but most of it was old fashioned voter suppression, such as voter purges and an uneven disbursement of machines (republican district, 1/2 hour wait: dem district, 5 hour wait). Those aren’t exact #’s, but they are close.
Raoul
Raoul Duke @ 107
I think voter suppression/interdiction is really their method of choice, because they don’t have to worry about any pesky discrepancies with exit polls.
Shell @ 103
depends on your county… we got diebolds with a little piece of paper that acts as a trail (so they say)
Margot @ 99
My guess is that it’s not for political purposes. I don’t think he can recover politically; I’m guessing he entered rehab either to attempt to get a lesser sentence or to attempt to fix the rest of his life.
margot – north point is publishing it and they have moved up the date because they are getting alot of advance buzz. its really the first comprehensive look at the whole travisity and its written from a position that simply lets the facts tell themselves. i’m sure they are going to do a big push and we’ll hear about it. mid-october is what they’re aiming for.
all right you guys… I’m just worn down to a little nub… TRexy – I’ll spotlight you first thing in the morning…
Good night!
Shell @ 103
I am in San Joaquin County and we have Diebold voting machines. [The ones that John @100 mentioned.] They were used for one election and then sat in a warehouse for months because they were decertified. They were recertified and now used exclusively. As I mentioned @90, we are walking precincts for McNerney (Say No To Pombo!) and we are suggesting to the voters they request a permanent absentee ballot.
Dear Moderators,
Would you kindly delete comments 35,48, 50, 59, 61, 93, 95.
As Judd Brown so correctly pointed out, The Spotlight Project *was* leaking a bit of information that should not be made public. I have corrected the problem. It would be best if we don’t let the information sit out in the open.
Thanks
Mark
Scott @
38
Or you could vote absentee, on paper.
Sorry I haven’t read through the comments so this may have already been mentioned.
But here’s the thing…
Mount an organised campaign to completely fuck each and every one of those disgraceful diebold Voting machines.
Very easily done with a tube of Supa Glue and enough volunteers to cover all the machines.
Destroy the machines and force the Electoral bodies to use Paper voting.
If the US is going to force Democracy on other Nations the least they can do is make their own Democratic Voting System above tampering.
here in NY we have the clunky old mechanical voting machines. I like going in and flicking the little levers and then pulling the big lever to lock in my vote.
Though the last presidential election and this up-coming election I will be voting absentee so I can work.
Good post, T-Rex. I sent that link out at about 2 a.m….and all day. Found it on Late Night, and have been obsessing about letting people know. Must have sent it to a hundred people.
Mark Steckel @
113
Mark, my apologies. I should have stealth notified.
Won’t happen again. Please let me know if I can help.
HotFlash @ 102
Happy post-birthday, doll. Wish you could come to your own f*cking party but you’re prolly still in jail. ;)
It is time that we codified an electoral process throughout the country (even though elections have traditionally been left to the county level to work out a process). Chaos and uncertainty in the process works to the advantage of incumbants and crooks (they are not always interchangeable) because the chaos gives the room to diddle the results. So I would like to see a law that states that 1) every eligible voter has the right to cast one vote and 2) the government has the legal obligation to accurately count each and every vote cast. The devil, of course, is in the details. But we have quite a few very bright and capable people in this country who, if given a charter to develop a system that meets those criteria, can do so. It only takes a political will to do it which is the problem. See the second sentence of this post.
..s..
And, because twice is twice as nice…
Happy birthday, Lotus
;>)
Judd Brown @ 118
No Worries. I’ve been doing this for a while. I’m pissed I missed such an obvious thing. The system is locked down pretty good (I think). I just forget to turn off the PHP display error option.
If you would like to walk though a security check list with me I’d be game for it. Email me at tsp [at] thespotlightproject [dot] org.
Has a moderator already gone through to screen the comments Mark requested? I’m having trouble pulling them up.
Judd Brown @
98
GIHOV is my gift…..courtesy of Bob Helmut Head Ney.
-GSD
TRex @
116
They’re gone. Thanks
NH uses a paper ballot read by an optical scanner.
IF there are any problems with the scanner, the paper ballots are easy to count.
-GSD
Mark Steckel @ 125
Again to prevent stress, I’m guessing that Mark had this site locked down 100% already and this was just an FYI.
Rock on Mark! We got yer back!
Margot @ 99
That’s what it seemed like to me, too. What’s next, missionary work in New Guinea?
Bolton, Bush and Rice……liars.
The US has no international credibility left. IAEA calls US report on Iran nuclear program “dishonest”.
-GSD
In the midst of all this angst, we should take a moment to be pleased that Bush’s torture bill is sinking like a stone, the Specter bill is looking a little green around the gills, and Colin Powell is talking sense on the issue of the GWOT.
All in all, it has been a pretty good news day.
But the ability to vote and have it accurately counted does kind of trump everything.
Michael @ 120
I agree, but there’s a chicken-and-egg problem. If we don’t get honorable people elected to write these rules, we’ll end up with another “Help America Vote Act,” which claimed to address the problems from the 2000 election, and instead has produced government-based Republican vote-suppression schemes in the name of “preventing voter fraud.”
Redshift @ 132
I’m looking forward to the “Let American Republicans Vote Act”, or LARVA.
KEWL!!! I Got me a TRex LINK! WOOHOO!
Aloha everyone. Sorry for not making it over sooner. I just walked back in the condo after a long-ass day on the North Shore.
Gotta go read all the comments now.
I think I’m going to see about doing an OpEd in our local paper about how we should all demand paper ballots and vote absentee if necessary.
Hot Flash,
Don’t even say that. People will have funded his mission come Sunday.
707!!!
I think that the Democrats want to pass a HTVA…Help Terrorists Vote Act.
-Borin’ Orrin Hatch
Nate @ 126
Don’t let your head swell up too much, there, mister. Blog stardom can be a heady, fleeting thing.
All above who mentioned the lack of MSM coverage. So far the online papers have been silent on this but MSNBC did a phone interview with the Professor of IT Policy at Princeton this afternoon before the opinionati brigade came on. Couldn’t grab it though.
It was actually well done except for the fact that the twit who did the interview waited until hanging up when she then announced that they’d contacted Diebold and asked them to join the interview which of course they refused but they issued a statement saying the usual crap about how they adamently disagree with the findings of this report and all their stuff is super-safe blah blah blah… The twit read their statement and then closed with that. Giving Diebold the last word and closing on that note even though they were too cowardly to take part in the conversation. To her credit she asked the Prof good questions though and let him say his piece in all answers with no contradiction.
For those who are going to Spotlight this article, make sure to include Lou Dobbs and staff from CNN. He’s been one of the few voices to tackle this issue head on. Jack Cafferty has also had some words about it as well.
HotFlash @ 114
Well, if your jurisdiction is enlightened enough to allow that. Here you can only vote absentee if you’re going to be away or unable to get to the polling place for certain specific reasons. (Or if you’re willing to lie about it, but it’s tough to base a mass movement on that.)
TRex @ 139
I’ll take your word for it.
TRex @ 123
And I am glad to see that the genocide in Sudan is back in the fleeting spotlight of the MSM……even though it takes Clooney showing up for a press conference to make it sexy enough to give air time to.
Eli @ 134
Don’t take my word for it. Take Morrissey’s:
Fame, fame, fatal fame…
It can play hideous tricks on the brain.
But still I’d rather be famous
than righteous, or holy,
any day, any day, any day.
But sometimes I’d feel more fulfilled
Making Christmas cards
with the mentally ill…
If the MSM won’t bit, how about contacting Jimmy Carter at the Carter Center and asking if his group will get involved. He goes all over the world to monitor elections, why not here?
Have I mentioned to you guys that I’ve gone totally bourgeoise? I have a cleaning lady who comes once every two weeks now. She came today and my house is soooooooo nice. Fresh-smelling and spotless.
When I was a kid and my mom was working two jobs, we had a cleaning lady who came on Fridays and on Thursday night, my mom had us running all over the house straightening things up. Lord, I used to complain about that. “Why do we have to clean when the cleaning lady’s coming? Isn’t that what she’s coming over to do?”
Then today before work, I was doing the same thing, rushing around, putting the bills in the big bowl of paperwork stuff, stuffing clothes into the hamper, etc., etc.
I should call my mom and tell her. That would tickle her.
In a way, I don’t find any of this surprising, except that they network these voting machines. That just makes the security problems that much harder to solve. The whole process of specifying, designing, and testing these machines was bogus from the word go.
From the video, there are three apparent flaws:
1. No one gave any thought to the physical security of the inside of these machines. In other words, it should not be possible to break into one of these machines and have it still functional. That’s how the NSA secures cryptographic devices, and it’s really common sense when you’re designing a system you have to be able to trust is what you think it is.
2. They clearly don’t use an operating system with a non-executable stack feature. This feature makes viruses far more difficult to design for the OS. This also is basic security design these days, and has been for a couple of years now. There are versions of Linux and BSD that have this feature. There may be other hardened systems as well.
3. There is, of course, no way to verify the results independent of the voting machines. This is the most obvious flaw, and the one that is easiest to fix. If there were a technically competent review of this design, this system would never have gotten into a single voting booth without it.
I’m going to read the Princeton site now. Ooooh, design flaws, process failures. Engineers love this stuff…
P J Evans @
56
Hi PJ. I appreciate the input. I have considered changing the format of my blog but in the meantime, I’ll make a few recommendations. You can increase the font size if you are on a PC and have a roller wheel on you mouse, simply by holding the CTRL button and rolling the mouse wheel after clickinng anywhere on the page. You can scale the font up to whatever size you want.
When I do switch my format over, I’m going to switch to WordPress and a custom template that will be that will have a color pattern similar to this blog.
I’ll also be changing the name of it to another URL I own called ProgressiveForce.com
I love the Smiths. Got to see them 3 times before the breakup. Whenever I want to wallow in melancholy or get a good cry on, it is just the ticket….well except for when I want to ride my bicycle down a hillside desolate….that always makes me dance. :)
xargaw @ 137
By gosh, what an excellent idea.
carterweb@emory.edu
Would like to see an end to the word “glitch” when describing voting machine problems.
A glitch is something small. Minimizes the danger, more propaganda.
Where is everybody on this, well I’ve been speaking loudly about this issue, including here, since last October. Voting integrity issues have been viewed as the worst sort of tinfoil nonsense even by the left.
“Oh but they would never do that!” Sure and they would never lie us into a war of aggression either.
Btw the reason you don’t hear Democrats speaking about against Diebold and the other machines is that they benefit too. It’s a dirty little pro-incumbent secret.
Finally, it’s not just Diebold. ES&S, Triad, and others I’m too sleepy to remember. Until we get open source and checkable coding, only paper is safe.
Nice blog Nate,
FYI, Saw Olbermann tonight and he will be replaying his 9/11 “hold in the ground” commentary tomorrow on countdown due to all the emails and requests he has received plus he stated one website had 250,000 hits to the video. Also he will be on the Today show in the am to talk about it and politics…just thought you and other FDLers may want to tune in.
News: #2 central banker in Russia assassinated. He was a strong reformer who was closing down fraudulent organizations.
Snl [sorry no linky] — actual paper version of the Friday’s Financial Times.
forget trying to improve the machines!!
paper ballots where you mark an X beside your choice. hand count them. easy to do, easy to verify and easy to recount if neccesary. we do it all the time in canada and honestly we get election results faster with almost no recounts than you ever do in your elections. the only recounts are in very very close races. i’ve never heard anyone talk about election fraud although i’ve heard that a hundred years ago they used to give people a mickey of rum for their vote.
jmba @ 144
Hey thanks! We’re always up for more Keith.
I know his presence on the Today show just may actually entice me to turn on the tv in the a.m. I generally can’t stand those am programs….C-Span is my am tv drug of choice.
HELLO EVERYBODY! SORRY FOR THE YELLING BUT IT’S FRIDAY!!!
just got off werk and the fine australian lager is in my hand.
everybody celebrate, i’m here from the future to tell you that friday is a good day!
p-rex @
149
Howdy, my dino bro!! Good to know that Friday will be good. Thanks for the heads-up.
Raoul Duke @ 9:25 pm (#99) – Paper ballots and random audits are part of the solution. The other is to have a real, open design and validation process for these things. There isn’t one now – the tests are run by labs that are supposedly certified, but they can’t disclose the contents of the source code. Without open discussion about flaws in the machines, there will be no guarantee that the problems get fixed.
I’ve written this here before, but I agree with schauf4 @ 8:25 pm (#20) – this should be done as an international open source project, with each country or state doing its own validation of the systems. That way, many different eyes are looking at the system, how to beat it, and how to make it better and more secure.
O.K., must hit the hay…..Firedoglake is my mistress, but Jon Stewart is my boyfriend and he is about to make his appearance in my bedroom :) G’Day and goodnight
on an entirely different note, what is up with this?
it includes this quote twice:
Further exploits of the Playground Bully administration:
Sen. Graham: White House Held Military Lawyers In 5 Hour Meeting and ‘Tried To Force Them To Sign A Prepared Statement’
This morning, President Bush was questioned about Gen. Colin Powell’s letter criticizing White House legislation that would authorize torture. Bush tried to downplay Powell’s letter by pointing to another letter signed by the military’s top uniformed lawyers saying they supported Bush’s plan:
BUSH: There’s all kinds of letters coming out — and today, by the way, active duty personnel in the Pentagon, the JAG, supported the concept that I have just outlined to you.
But during today’s White House press conference, a reporter cited comments by Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) — a former JAG and an opponent of the Bush’s detainee policies — claiming that the White House had placed extreme pressure on the military lawyers to sign a statement, and that the lawyers had refused to sign the initial statement crafted for them by the White House:
There’s no word at this time whether waterboarding was involved.
TRex @ 131
True but I am still curious about the immunity issue for all of the illegal wire tapping, illegal renditions and illegal torture that has already occured etc. Where is that piece of legislation? This more than anything is what Bush and Cheney must have. No *ucking way! Conyers will need all the ammo he can have in a few months. The people deserve nothing less.
I think it’s time for a bowl of ice cream.
One does not have to dig deeper than the utter silence on this issue from the republicans, to know who benefits from the use of Diebold machines. If this was not true, wouldn’t republicans be fighting for accuracy and verifiability too?
Although, the first person to be prosecuted, for hacking a Diebold machine, will probably be a democratic staffer.
B
Reminds me of his most infuriating quote
http://www.capitolhillblue.com…..7779.shtml
i was thinking someone needs to get these folks another machine so they can network them and test the security.
Eli @ 88
Eli, agreed! It’s about accountability. Remove that, and you don’t have anything to stand on. Those should be THE twin issues to push. I don’t think there’s anything partisan about either, really. Who doesn’t want fair and clean elections? Who doesn’t want as impartial and thorough a media as possible? Pitch it to John Q. Public in these terms, and push for reform.
p-rex @ 166
Shhhh… A little elf told me that it’s already in the works. :)
What is the purpose of the discussions regarding torture, renditions, warrantless wiretapping etc., other than to obfuscate the fact that members of the Bush administration broke the law for nefarious purposes.
“Trust us,” is a bullshit argument that insults the intelligence of the American people. O.K., some (many?) of the American people.
At the risk of minimizing the seriousness of someone purportedly getting inpatient substance treatment, I have a sneaking suspicion there could be some serious secondary gain from Bob Ney making himself inaccessible to desperate phone calls and certain people demanding intimate face time right about now.
Nate @ 161
nice. more people need to pay attention to this!
anyone need another beer?
I hear my pillow calling me, gang. Good night to all of you. Sleep tight. And may visions of fair and clean elections dance in your heads.
Sorry about stepping away but I just had a great phone call and am now working on a video. In the meantime, you ALL have to check out this fantastic NEW SITE AND RADIO AD that the awesome Charlie Brown, Lt. Col. (Ret) has just released and is now playing in the most conservative district in CA. Namely the CA-04.
If you haven’t done it lately, go throw him a little coin on FDL’s Blue America Page. Help him get as much airtime for this AWESOME commercial as possible. Then go download the MP3 of it and put it on your blog or forward it to your 2nd favorite blog (FDL of course being your 1st).
OOPS… HERE IS THE LINK to the site and commercial!
Eli@88
Who doesn’t want fair, honest and verifiable elections?
Those who benefit from elections not being fair…
Just zipped ala tivo through the News Hour and KO. Frist the doctor of cat torture of all people was on the News Hour defending the Pres and torture and had that familiar (overly certain) tone when he declared the Thugs will win Nov. election.
KO – Stop wearing pink! Both shirt and tie at once is over the top! Pink is for bathroom tile.
It will make your dreams of a Democratic America even brighter TRex. And sleep well.
Niters TRex, sleep well.
Now that I’ve started reading the Princeton report, I’ve discovered another flaw (two, if you count the fact that they’re using MS Windows):
One of the primary rules of secure programming is no back doors! Inevitably, someone finds out about them and then everybody who shouldn’t know about it will soon know about it.
This is a very deceptive practice, IMHO. If a vendor did this to me on a project I was working on, my very next call would be to my supervisor or my company’s legal department.
Open Source Voting software eah ?
Here ya go :
“All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.” – T.E. Lawrence
Eureka Springs, AR @ 11:20 pm (#169)
No irony there, huh? Maybe we should make the Bug Man an emeritus Congressman so he can advise us about ethical problems in the House. Oh, wait …
Alison @
14
[Emphasis mine—pd] Pretty big place, downtown Toronto, yet paper was counted before the upcoming term expired!
Advocates of e-voting sometimes make it sound as if one bridge club foursome is to be charged with the vote count for the entire nation.
I have Spotlighted this article around and about, will probably do another run later. This seems to be a very good one for local media, imho.
Speaking of which, does anyone know how to suggest more names for the database? I know of a whole talk radio station that needs coverage—WVON-AM Chicago.
daCascadian @ 11:33 pm (#173) – I’d heard of these guys before. They look like a dead project though. They released a beta in 2004 and that’s the last software release.
They seem to have morphed into an advocacy group.
OT: This
NYT article is the current headline at HuffPo. It’s a stunning article.
The Dems have given away the fight against legalizing war crimes to St. John McCain. There he is fight valiantly for decency, compassion, civilization itself, while:
I want to puke!
The big question has been “What the fuck do Democrats stand for, if anything at all?” Well here you have it folks. Not even the Democratic senators who draw a bye this election could be troubled to be something other than spectators, to simply stand up for civilization. What is wrong with these people? This one was free money. No-risk bipartisan heroism, free for the taking.
I still think Christy had it dead on, when she wrote: “f Democrats were waiting for the Three Stooges to have a spine for them in these negotiations, they bet on the wrong men.” At some point the Republicans are going to cave to the “just following orders” pitch. But if the Democrats don’t join in now, they’ll have no leverage then.
There is another side to computer voting..instant results. Any results announced will trigger the immediate assumption of power by the “winner”. No time to make any checks, no time to investigate any irregularities, but plenty of time to start the parade and nominate a new Attorney General. Winner takes all at 8:01 pm. Hey, the old power grab has worked for george twice.
On the video (youtube) for this post. Why would diebold machines have a headphone jack? For the soul purpose of having the ability to mute the sound? That is just odd.
Cujo – And he wants to Pres.
prostrateddragon – contact spotlight on the very bottom (it’s tiny) of the spotlight page with all info and they will add or update.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 179
The Diebold machines are based on Windows, so I suspect they could play sounds to give poll workers or technicians feedback when they are working on them. The headphone jack may be there to keep that from being an annoyance.
Nevertheless, it seems like more of a security problem than a useful feature.
He appears to be fully qualified. Even has hands-on experience.
Wigwam @ 182
I agree with Wigwam– this is just appalling for Democrats/progressives. Why is it that McCAIN is the face of opposition here? Not that I have problems with that; as someone who’s experienced torture, McCain’s in a unique position to tackle this issue. But for heaven’s sake, we need folks on our side with spines!
McCain says he’ll “risk” his chances at the presidency on this issue. Where’s the Democrat willing to take the same risk?
gc wall @ 173
gc wall, Eli didn’t say that. I did, at 165. Obviously “those who benefit from elections not being fair” wouldn’t want clean elections. What I was saying is that WE need to put in those terms to the public– not to those of us in the choir.
McCain got what he wanted on his last battle over torture until the signing statement. Going to read huff piece
Mr. Sandman @
182
I’m coing in late and someone may have already covered this, but the strategy is to let the righties fight amongst themselves. If a Dem says anything, the entire right, including St. McCain, will call them soft on terror.
By allowing the right to fuss and argue, the Dems hope that the Righties will look:
A. all political
B. hypocritical
C. disengaged
D. like the don’t have real security in mind, but instead have a real split in the party between Authoritarian cultists, and realists.
Not saying it’s right, just saying that’s what the strategy is.
Disturbing NYT article. Pachacutec, Glenn Greenwald and others had a coference call with Senator Reid today. Glenn has a post about the conversation that will ease your worries somewhat.
Old Coastie,
Received the same message, but don’t know what it means. It went away when I refreshed the page.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 186
Unfortunately, that call had only to do with preserving FISA. This battle is over preserving the War Crimes Act, which makes any violation of CA3 of the Geneva Accords a possibly-capital federal offense. And even so, the penultimate paragraph of Glenn’s post says of the Democrats’ fight to save FISA:
General Election all 50 States:
1 month, 22 days, 15 hours, 22 minutes, and 30 seconds
Pull that team toward the sun, doggies!
pull
pull
Mush, you fusking Huckies!!!
sorry, had to do my mini-Robert Service thing….
SteveAudio @
185
The old saying is: “When your opponent is self-destructing, stand back and leave him alone.”
But in this case, St. John McCain is the long-term opponent. And he isn’t self-destructing. And it’s no risk for Senators who aren’t running for re-election to stand up and be counted on this one. And if they don’t there’s a good chance that McCain and goodness will lose.
Cujo359 @ 181
Just saw this from the Princeton document:
So, apparently, it’s actually used by voters.
apropos Ney – if he’s entered a rehab program that is effective,he’s going to have to find ways to admit his flaws, and make amends to those he has harmed….
wow.
this could be really interesting if he took recovery seriously.
DIE, DIEBOLD, DIE!!!
and ditto
every time i see a blogpost regrading diebold or voting irregularities, or a lack of a homogenous voting practices, i shake my head. in canada, where, thankfully, i live, all voting, from municipal to federal, is done by hand. you get a ballot and you put an X in the circle corresponding to your desired candiadte. that’s it. period. and it’s consistent across the nation. as an added bonus, the votes are counted by hand, rendering conspiracies unlikely, if not impossible. any americans concerned with honest polling need simply to advocate returning to this most simple of election formats. no computers, no conspiracies, no controversy. vote by hand, count by hand. there is no compelling reason why voting should be any more complicated than that.
row
thankfully, in canada.
row @ 194
Canada, a great country, kicks our butt in many areas. You’ve highlighted one of the most important – unity and simplicity in voting procedure.
row @ 194
Actually, much of this e-voting stuff came about thanks to an effort to standardize voting practices here. The Helping America Vote Act (HAVA) encouraged the use of e-voting systems to avoid some of the problems they had in the Florida election in 2000 (hanging chads and so forth). There are some advantages to the e-vote systems – they’re easier to use, can do positive scans to make sure that you’re only voting for the right number of people, etc. There’s help for the blind through the headphone port we were talking about earlier. Here’s a Google-cached article from my old home town newspaper that talks about that (go to the fourth paragraph).
So, whether they’re worth the trouble is a good question, but there are some advantages.
thank you. and i mean it sincerely. i can’t understand why voting needs to be computerised. what a waste of time, money, energy, and effort. democracy requires transparency – one of the many things diebold and digitized voting lacks.
i think blind people would rather have help voting from their friends, and not from a faceless corporation who has programmed the audio for them. besides, hanging chads are irrelevant to a mark an x voting system. in canada, we are taught in school that if you don’t mark an x in the appropriate place on a ballot, or you mare a checkmark, or you go outside the lines, it doesn’t count. it’s simple and we get it. i repeat: voting doesn’t need to be any more complicated than that; it doesn’t need computers.
row
Well, I’ve read about as much as I can of this report, and it’s interesting to say the least. I’m amazed at how poorly designed this system is, given that it’s supposed to have been vetted for use in elections. They’ve left several ways of getting into the system, and all of them have been preventable for years. Anyone who is a professional software engineer or systems programmer should be appalled at what I’m reading, I think.
If this is still a hot topic tomorrow I’ll try to join in again. Our computer security expert seems to have left. I’d be curious to see what he thinks of the report itself.
Goodnight FDL.
OK, cujo and row, where would you go from here if you were in charge of unified voting machine reform in the USA?
[Whoops!]
Belated happy birthday, lotus—may you have many happy returns.
Cujo–
Our new slogan HAVA ENOUGH?—-VOTE DEMOCRATIC111
Love it!
row @ 1:19 am (#198) – People don’t always have the luxury of having friends help them vote, and there’s also a tradition here of people’s votes being confidential. Believe it or not, there are people here who won’t even tell their friends or spouses how they vote.
In my state (Washington) we’ve been using paper ballots with electronic scanners. This seems to be the best of both worlds, at least for those of us who can read and comprehend the ballots.
Ed*ard Teller @ 1:21 am (#200) – If it were up to me, we’d electronically scan paper ballots, with the added feature that there would be a “no vote” box for each race or issue on the ballot. That way, the scanner could ensure that the votes were all correct, and that what looks like no vote on a particular issue is really no vote. The voter would then have a chance to vote on something he forgot, or make his choice clearer.
Since there are usually only one or two scanners per polling place, there’s less cost and less logistical effort required versus the Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) systems, of which the Diebold machine we’re discussing is one example.
Elections work pretty well here, even in King County, which is pretty big. Most races are decided by midnight of election day, which is fine. I can read about the elections in the morning.
Miss Penny @ 202
LOL. As a bonus, we’d be the only ones who understood it, thus assuring our continued coolness.
for the very specific issue of blind people voting: i don’t think it would be a big deal to offer them the option of friend or audio. if they had no one to trust they could choose to trust the diebold programmers. i don’t know if that would be my choice . . . my point is that technology isn’t necessary. and that, in fact, the introduction of technology in to the voting system has caused far more doubts about the process as a whole than any other development in its history. the only safeguard against conspiracy is transparency.
Cujo359 @ 204
Once the telegraph was deployed, messaging attained its present speed in some forms. Electronic methods, though, should only be used when they enhance the message or are verifiably objective.
I strongly feel we need good bipartisan precinct committees held to a national standard overseeing situations similar to places like Canada and Iceland.
Some thoughts:
Boy, are Canadians smug about their non-hackable voting system and their true democracy. Just remember smarty-pants’s, if it wasn’t for the good ol’ US of A, you’d all be speaking Farsi by now! Sheesh!
Could the people who created that video have made it any MORE boring? Jesus, except for the horrific implications of the subject matter, you’d think the voiceover guy is the audio equivalent of three Tylenol PMs. With a vodka chaser.
And what’s with him pronouncing the name “Dee Bald”?
It’s “Die Bold”, you friggin’ idiot…“DIE BOLD”!
Eureka Springs, AR @
180
Thanks, ES-AR. Better get my tiny-seeing eyes on…
what was always highly suspect was that, coming out of the 2000 election, the ONE reform that repubs were pushing — and all but unanimous in pushing for it — was the federal elections bill that would actually subsidize local governments converting to electronic voting.
no one has ever explained what is wrong with the machines we use in new york, the ones you go into the booth, flip switches indicating your candidates, and record your votes by pulling a hand lever. reason for no explanation? because there is none. these booths have been foolproof. so they must be discarded.
a low-water mark in the dismantling of our democracy was when that mook, james baker iii, stood up before national audiences and described hand-cast ballots with the disdain of someone asked to clean a toilet. meanwhile, when committees are called in to supervise fair elections around the world what do they use? hand ballots.
replacing simple with “sophisticated” is merely a subversion.and the repubs know that. again, where are the dems?
Good morning FDL. I’ve got the coffee brewing, and some pumpkin bread in the oven.
Great post T-Rex, thank you. And a belated though very Happy Birthday Wish to the lovely flower, Jewel of the East coast, and bearer of wisdom more precious than pearls…Lotus!
The biggest problem with the noise about such machines is the very notion of treating it as a “bipartisan” issue. It’s important that everybody’s vote counts, right?
Wrong.
The Republicans know that their guys own this. The more cynical of the Republican voters approve of this, and of the voter suppression, and the crooked process by which votes are counted or discounted.
They know that any attempt to actually correct any of those problems will put their party out of power. Period. If it’s a bipartisan issue, why were some southern Republicans so all fired up to block renewal of the Voting Rights Act?
Why is it that Ohio Republican politicians were at the heart of the mess creating HAVA two years before the 2004 debacle? No relation to the 2004 election, or to the ensuing scandals? My ass.
These people put a Nazi like William Rehnquist on the Supreme Court after his doing minority voter suppression in the early `60s in Arizona. ??? (And made him Chief Justice after he lied about it???)
It ain’t bipartisan.
Now, it might be good advertising to say so, but, it’s not the truth. I’ve never, for example, witnessed a black Democratic poll observer drag a Westchester County fur-coated Republican matron out into the rain, accuse her of voting illegally and then threaten her with jail if she couldn’t prove who she was with three pieces of identification.
The Republican Party is full of amoral assholes. The fact that they take Karl Rove’s advice on anything is proof enough of that.
guess who the legislator was that carried the HAVA stuff thru Congress? Disgraced Bob Ney from Ohio (home state of Diebold)
that lil headphone jack is so important to forcing “touch-screen” machines over optical scanners. Visually-impaired folk can use audio on touch-screen machines without necessitating human assistance. Here in Indpls this is being used to justify replacing our optical scan machines. Scary!
On a completely different topic, I’m not at all happy about the e-coli contamination of bagged spinach. I was doing up my lemon and butter lentils with spinach for company. Argh.
Good Morning to you. And I’m sending wishes for Peace and All Good Blessings from this small corner of my Excellent (pre-news!) Universe .
Goodmorning everyone!!
Please sir, may I have some of that nice pumpkin bread?
Is posy-Birthday! Lotus here (yet caught in mod?) If so, I hope your birthday was fab!
(Hi Beard5…what are the “rules” for dealing with e-coli? Does cooking destroy them? I’d be willing to bet that Cooperative Extension might have answers. (You may also be able to soak the fresh leaves in a very very weak bleach solution and then after some minutes, rinse well.)
I’m in the crowd shouting about these effin electronic machines too. I called the editor of our local paper and gave him the url for the Princeton report. He was, by the way, VERY interested. I’ll be curious to see what appears in our little award winning weekly. My town is very small and we still vote on paper.
Thanks OS — happy as a clam here myself, with family all together in the bed keeping cozy for a few minutes on this grey day before the cycle commences.
OS, re: the e-coli, the FDA(I think) is saying toss, do not cook, dispose. So, today I need to brave the grocery store, again, and pick up frozen spinach.
(Imm, here’s some pumpkin bread, there’s plenty here for everyone)
Oh, CNN is covering Armitage and Novak, that they’re telling two different stories.
OS at 218 — for folks in Maine, a headline:
“Technology Not Always a Step Forward”
is pretty much a winner on any subject.
beard5 — yummy! You might want to save some for Kobe.
Heavens I keep forgetting how attractive Valerie and Joe are. *swoon*
beard5 @ 221
Of course, no definitive investigating on CNN’s part determining who’s actually telling the truth. (News Flash for CNN: neither of them.)
Nah. Too debilitating to do that. Too hard on the hairdo. And the career. And the ego.
What’s it gonna take for the 40% of Americans who vote to realize we have a national problem with easy-cheat voting technology? When the ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC and especially FOX decide it is important and run hours of programming on it, as they did the latest Jon-Benet Ramsey pedophile-in-Asia confession story. Don’t hold your breath!
Monatag, you’re right, but what’s-his-name (Mr What’s-her-name) can make a joke about it going on and on (hmm, and the Starr investigation didn’t?)
Hey Imm, did you have rain yesterday? It’s not here yet, but the clouds are thickening.
(WHERE are Joe & Valerie–I’m with you. I love seeing them, but I do not do TV.)
Miles O’Brien, that’s his name
OS, it was just some older pictures on CNN (not Headline news, the other CNN)
beard5 @ 227
/laughing/
“what’s-his-name (Mr What’s-her-name)”
Hmm, that seems to prove what we thought all along, that the news business these days is rife with incest and nepotism. :)
Kevin I like your term easy-cheat voting technology. Just catching up with comments, and Scott at 37 says why not strike back with our own easy-change easily insertable cards!!
I suppose if it were simple enough to make ALL the numbers utterly out of line, they’d have to hold another election…….and maybe on paper…….but I’m no computer specialist….and in my town the votes are counted properly by people together in a group helping each other to be accurate.
OS–snagged in moderation–LOL–that scarey old whirlpool–better watch out *ilson (snark), if that’s about flippant comments wrt the voting machines, please delete that comment and this one (serious)
OS — raing most of yesterday afternoon and evening. Just very cloudy right now….
okay further news on the spinach, it’s nationwide, and the description of effects, this sounds like something one wouldn’t want to mess around with.
I understand the voting technology is a real problem, but sometimes technology does improve things (at least this is an improvement for this law-head): Supreme Court to release same-day transcripts –
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01543.html
Good morning to alla y’all!
As for my wonderful birthday — well, all I can say is:
I love you right back!
Found you some news this morning, so lemme pull it together and I’ll have it up soon . . .
Also OT but at this point –
Has anyone wondered whether Bush Sr. gave Colin Powell the green light to oppose Bush Jr. on torture?
Eli at 125 is funny!!
you know what?
I go to a diebold atm machine, I make a transaction, it gives me a friggin receipt
but a receipt isn’t enough is it.
interested parties need to be able to deposit their reciept at a poll which WILL be compared against the electronic votes
THAT will determine whether or not a percinct is reporting the correct count
giving a receipt does NOT insure a correct count, but it’s a start
me to me @ 239
Meaningless. Most states have a definition of the official ballot. Those that define the electronic vote as the “ballot” (such as Nebraska, home of Chuck Hagel’s former company, ES&S) will not consider a paper receipt as the official ballot.
What you’ve got, after the law, is a piece of paper.
Venezuela has a national electronic voting system like that. Voting is done on an ATM-like machine. It prints out a ‘receipt’ which the voter inspects for approval. If OK, it goes into a ‘recount box’ which is held and becomes the official paper trail for recounts – the machine tally is discarded in a recount; the paper receipt becomes the official ballot of record.
All the advantages of electronic voting but also with a paper trail.
off topic;
you’re NOT going to believe how corporate media is presenting the anti torture movement
I heard on cbs radio today;
“4 republicans are trying to protect the rights of terrorists”
this is rovian, this is the war of words and democrats HAVE TO JUMP ON THIS
they need to debate on the PROPER terms
“NOBODY IS PROTECTING THE RIGHTS OF TERRORISTS, we are protecting the rights of OUR SOLDIERS
WE ARE PROTECTING THE ABILITY TO BROKER A TREATY OTHER COUNTRIES KNOW WE WILL HONOT
we are protecting the integrity of our word, the preisdents that put America’s name on treaties is NOT to be squandered by future presidents with personal agenda”
and they NEED to end with;
“our ability to defend this country, our national security is at peril”
it’s a war of words
Absentee ballots have to be the answer until some other solution is arrived at. And if it’s a pain in the neck for election officials, well, “democracy isn’t easy”. And if enough election officials grumble enough, maybe the better solution will arrive sooner. Paper ballots, counted at each precinct station in the presence of living human beings, and stored until all results are no longer contested works for me. And at least all of the paper ballots are recyclable,unlike their toxic plastic and metal machines……..
montag @ 241
first of all, the state could legislate the receipt, give it a seal and accept it if it wants to
even if the state doesn’t want to create legislation that authorises the resceipt, you have a public record
like a newspaper article is not an official document, it’s still actionable
whether or not it’s considered a record by law doesn’t matter, it IS a record that will raise the public alarm
a movement and public oversight
Here is what I have done about this for the last two elections, and plan to do this year.
Virginia, like many, if not most states, will provide paper ballots for people who cannot go to the polls. My wife and I go down to the County Government Building, and demand a paper ballot (of course, you have to do this before election day).
I didn’t do this for the recen Senate primary, but I wasn’t worried about that one.
I am convinced that if enough people did this (basically, a vote of no confidence in the election system), changes would be made, And, at any rate, they won’t steal my vote, at least, not from Ohio.
I hate to say this,but it wouldn’t be the first time I’m the least popular kid in the room,so here goes….
I knew something was wrong in 2000. I tried talking to people with my political leanings about it and was ridiculed and trashed. I drove down to the poorer part of our county on election day and I was STUNNED to see lines hours long. It wasn’t like that in white suburbia,I think it took me 10 minutes to get in and out of our polling place. We had more machines than we needed,where the minority poor had too few.
Fast forward to 2004. I have family in Ohio and heard lots of stories of really dirty stuff happening up there. My daughter and two of her friends had trouble with the process,from registering to vote to voting itself. These are kids who are poor and live in a poor part of the state. They waited 7 hours to vote.They were hassled by GOP operatives. All came away in tears,no one listened to them,GOP guys were writing down car licence numbers at the polling places(to investigate people for fraud,so they said),and I had a hell of a time convincing these young women not to give up when they all swore they’d never vote again. This was their first presidential election,and they were excited about it. Until this happened to them.
So,I went back to talking about this some more. And again,Dems and lefties of various stripes gave me crap about it. I was told no one would”take us seriously”if our side even brought this to the public’s attention,it would cause trouble for our candidates,it would look bad in the media,etc.
TRex,Cathy Cox might as well be a Republican,IMO. I called her office,wrote letters,called some more,and no one would talk about the use of Diebold machines. Our senators and reps don’t give a rat’s ass about this either,several more phone calls proved that. They treated me like I was a complete nutcase.
My bank just went to Diebold ATMs,I notice those machines give reciepts,and you don’t hear much about the machines messing up those precious money totals now do you? If it was discovered that ATMs could be that easily hacked you can bet your fanny it would be fixed,yesterday.
I’m glad someone on our side(though Brad and the Black Box voting site have been on this from almost day one)is finally waking up to this,and perhaps,now that FDL is giving this a look it’ll get into the public’s view a lot more. I just wish our side of the political divide had jumped on this sooner instead of dismissing it as so much tinfoily-ness. The evidence has been there all along. I’m not totally convinced that liberals are going to take this as seriously as they should be.
The Ohio machines used in 2004 are in danger of being purged,I believe a legal hold was put on that purge,but it’s only temporary. I wish I could remember where I found the article about that,it’s fairly recent(within the last month).
Russ Holt,a rep(?)from NJ,has been trying for awhile to get legislation passed regarding electronic machines,no one’s paid attention to that very much either. I haven’t read much about it outside the NJ blogging circles.
If voting isn’t fair,open and honest,all the hard work we do to get good people in office is pretty much wasted. There should never,ever even be a suspicion of foul play where voting is concerned,ever. And because there is more than enough evidence(read the Conyers report on Ohio in 2004,and Mark Crispin Miller’s Fooled Again)to prove something’s WRONG,it’s going to be up to us to keep pushing back HARD on this issue,or we might as well pack it in and give up. If people keep having their vote messed with,they’ll just give up unless they know someone’s got their back.
And why is it that nearly all these voting”errors”seem to mostly favor the GOP? I find that terribly interesting.
We’ve lost another somebody whose courage we couldn’t have done without:
Tyron Garner, Plaintiff in U.S. Supreme Court Case Ending Laws Against Gay Sex, Dies at 39
With gratitude for the rich life of Tyron Garner: Rest in peace, sir.
the Venezuelan system of having the voter-approved paper receipt become the official paper ballot for recounts makes sense to me.
you know what?
if all democrats went to public or right in ballots, the election officials who are republican where it counts will find a way to declare before the count is in
they can legitimately use formulas that to determine the winners, since the formula would be obsolete due to the excess of democrats writing in.
we have a tough fight ahead of us, we are going to need to win by more then ten percent I think, for voting fraud to be overcome
I am not confident we are equipped to win this battle…we’ve had plenty of time to gear up, but really, we haven’t done anything to make e voting illegal
the movement, even if it starts today, is too late, it will reach too much oposition to succeed in time
*ilson46201 @ 242
that’s nice, I think that’s what I described in my first post
Happy birthday, lotus! Within a thousand petals, the golden jewel lies hidden.
Also: Thanks, Nate! Great stuff at Get In Their Faces. It’s an important story that I suspect will gradually gain MSM traction. If not, there are always other avenues. ;-D
Peace.
Morning everyone.
Driveby.
lotus, I hope you caught darkblack’s b-day present up thread.
darkblack says:
September 14th, 2006 at 9:45 pm
OT
Sources say Ney to plead guilty
Bold is mine.
It wasn’t that Bob was dishonest, it was the “demon rum.“
Angry Old Broad, you raise good points. In my case I had trouble believing in vote rigging because well, it’s so beyond the pale. Up here, the republicans blocked the lines to the Democratic get out the vote phone banks, which impacted my Aunt and if it happens during this election or the next may well affect me. But again, it’s such a hard thing to believe that any political party could be so suicidal as to decrease the confidence in the voting process.
Reading “Conservatives without conscience” has been a horrible eye-opener.
The USA that I was raised in believed that voting is not just a right, but a responsibility. That government couldn’t function without good voter turnout and that the results of the election are sancrosanct. Vox Populi=Vox Dei and all that.
Let’s just say this has been a very discouraging 6 years.
me to me @ 244
What counts–with regard to the official count–is the law regarding the definition of the ballot and how that ballot is counted.
Period.
Trust me. I know whereof I speak.
I know what states, counties and municipalities could do, but that doesn’t count right now. What counts is what laws are on the books now. And not all states with, for example, optically-scanned ballots consider the paper fed into the scanner itself the official ballot. Even some that do say that a hand recount of the ballot won’t be done–that the recount has be totalled by shoveling the paper from selected precincts through a similar scanner and totalled electronically.
When the laws, everywhere, say that the paper ballot is the final determiner of the election and in cases in question, a hand recount of the paper ballot is the official count, then I’ll feel a bit better about the process.
But, “could” doesn’t cut it. And what you describe as possible isn’t the case in most states today. And the next general election is seven weeks away….
That’s the mess our fearless leaders have created for us.
newly-disgraced Congresscritter Bob Ney of Ohio is the legislator who carried the HAVA stuff for the GOP which implements electronic voting nationally…
Me to me, I’m so with you. It is a war of words and also a war ON words. Which gybes nicely with Montag’s observation that it’s the “local” definition that matters. Oy veh!
(Beard at 235, I’m glad we already ate the bag of spinach I brought home on Tuesday!!!)
KAI, so good to see you again! Thank you, dearie, and you too beardy-dearie, imm-dearie, John Casper-dearie, and of course darkblack-dearie!!!!! One exclamation and ((((((HUG)))))for you each.
But you guys gotta hush with this now, or the last of my cred in the lesbian community will be forfeit.
;-}
And speaking of word “puffery”………from William Lind
http://www.antiwar.com/lind/?articleid=9701
montag @ 255
This is slightly off topic but I hope useful.
In the past few days of comments, there seems to be a lot of underlying angst as everybody tries to wrestle with the personal challenges in their lives (illness, loss of loved ones, financial hardship) and also deal with major issues like rigged voting machines, warrantless spying on Americans, etc etc that threaten the stability and very existence of our democracy.
Some days I’m so angry and paralyzed by it all I can barely get anything done, which is not useful when the project was due yesterday. So I sit down at the computer and go to a Nasa website that posts nothing but photographs of the universe — a new photo for each day, along with an explanation of who took it, what it is, how it was taken, etc.
Looking at these truly awesome images (Gemini South Star Trails, Sept. 1, Eclipsed Moon Rising Over England, Sept. 11) is very restorative. Check it out and let me know what you think.
Here’s the link:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
By the way, if you have kids, by all means share these photos with them. Especially if there’s a young shutterbug in the family.
The Brit papers, as usual, are worth a look
http://www.timesonline.co.uk
http://www.guardian.co.uk
http://www.independent.co.uk
(today, they’re uniformly aghast at
Badmouth Bennythe Pope as Muslim-basher and wowed by Dame Helen Mirren as Elizabeth II in “The Queen”)“The Pentagon’s 12-step program to create a military of misfits” by Nick Turse about the degradation of the military and the attempts to enlist enough new cannon fodder…….
http://www.antiwar.com/engelhardt/?articleid=9700
Thank you, almusicalityp.
Good Morning Firepups,
. . .talk about your projection -
US Amb. to Nicaragua poo-pooin’ Ortega campaign in upcoming national elections -
well jeepers, where would he get that idea ?*g*
Alittlemusicality, thank you for sharing that link. I’d had it on the old computer and it seems to have disappeared. I love today’s picture. Star Trails are just inspirational.
WOW, alittle, those are wonderful!! Thanks. I will enjoy sharing that link. OS
me to me @ 258
Actionable in what sense? Newspapers? Libel laws, not election laws, apply.
Corporate work production? The fraud and SEC laws governing accounting apply, not election laws.
When the election laws specify that an election shall be decided on specific terms, for recount or otherwise, and on a specific definition of the ballot, that’s what applies.
You may find it logically strange, but each case you describe is determined by the laws which apply. The fact that paper is involved in each instance does not lend itself to some universal legal principle about paper as evidence, especially when existing law–in the case of some election laws–does not give paper precedence as evidence.
Cheers.
I see your point…sad to say, I see your point
you are saying any action would be after the fact, the election would be decided regardless that action
we b in trouble, this is for sure
“President Bush could learn a lot from Sun Tzu” by John Lang
http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne…..-headlines
beard5 @ 265
When you get a chance, go back to Aug. 22 and check out A Smoke Angel from Airplane Flares. Definitely screensaver material.
alittlemusicalityplease @ 270
Looks more like the Flying Spaghetti Monster to me. ;)
Alittle, that was a GASP moment (Aug 22) Too bad the plane is in the photo.
Ah, good morning Lotus, how’s the day?
Ah, if chuckle-head Miles can talk about Problems with electronic voting, all may not be lost. (Coming up on CNN after the commercials. we’ll probably get a “head on” in this batch)
Boeing 777 cutting through the clouds
morning all. spotlight sent. this is becoming a daily event… thanks for the tool
twolf1 @ 271
It does indeed. Thanks for the laugh.
Twolf—-the access we have to viewing the actions of fluid mechanics is awesome…….as are the views…..
I love that space photo of the day site,I’ve had it in my bookmarks for a few years now. Puts things into perspective when you think your life sucks,lol. Earth and Sky is another neat site,all kinds of goodies about,well,the earth and the sky,duh. Heehee.
One of these days I want one of those telescopes you can hook up to your computer to find various planets and stuff. My little Meade telescope it nifty,but it’s not very powerful.
Wowzers, li’lmusic and twolfie!
Hi there, OS, day’s doing fine here (still trotting about in OT news). Fine on your stretch of the Atlantic too, I hope?
An Angry Old Broad @ 247
I’m with you on the slowness of liberals to treat this issue seriously. Maybe because of my day job as a software developer, this has always struck me as an easily exploited scam. Frankly I’m far more cynical than most folks round here: I don’t recall a pre-Bush America where poor people or people of color were treated with anything other than marginalizing derision.
Anyway…
Old Sow: Great piece on Bush and Sun Tzu! I’ve been reading Sun Tzu for years and have been consistently horrified by Bush — but also by the several administrations that preceded him (see Kosovo, Panama, Grenada, Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, etc). I know I’ve posted this before, but here’s the full passage on “protracted war”:
“When your weapons are dulled and ardour damped, your strength exhausted and treasure spent, neighbouring rulers will take advantage of your distress. And even though you have wise counsellors, none will be able to lay good plans for the future. Thus, while we have heard of blundering swiftness in war, we have not yet seen a clever operation that was prolonged. For there has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited.”
And thanks, alittlemusicalityplease, for the link. I think I’m in love with Hubble.
Peace.
“A Smoke Angel from Airplane Flares” looks like a auld judge harrumphing at Rumpole to me (still deep in the London papers).
How interesting, NPR hired Ted Kopple and sent him to Tehran to report……..
Ferrofluid is a very interesting material originally developed by NASA it has now found itself been used for a whole range of devices including dampers for controlling and stabilizing large building that move around in the wind. What’s also amazing is that they have such lovely visual qualities when magnetized.
http://www.99express.com/posts…..ptures.htm
If you do a search on youtube for Ferrofluid, there are some amazing videos of this phenomenon in action.
BBC says there will be a trench dug around the perimeter of Baghdad with specific checkpoints in an all out effort to reduce incidences of “terror” in the city. Good Luck. (see Sun Tzu linked at 270)
OS, Discover channel had a special on 911/Iraq hosted by Ted Koppel, apparently he’ll be doing two-hour specials for them too. (It was pretty damned good by the way, aired opposite the abomination on ABC.
Old Sow @
270
The only things Bush learns are the scare tactics from Monsters, Inc.
George Packer on George B(r)ush
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/…..alk_packer
Old Sow @ 284
trench or mass grave? I don’t understand why this is ‘acceptable’ to ChimpCo (other than the fact they are complete a-holes). What if that many bodies were found scattered across a city in the US?
chimpy to hold presser in the rose garden today – topic unknown but I’m sure we could guess.
Anyone interested in hearing more from Robert Novak about his conversation with Richard Armitage, heads-up:
Novak is on Washington Journal this morning, starting at 9 a.m. ET – C-SPAN1.
If calls will be taken from the public, this might be our chance to do the corporate media’s job for them, by asking Novak for some specifics that we don’t yet know about their July 8, 2003 meeting.
twolf1 @ 290
when, Twolf? — so I can be prepared to stay away from all forms of communication.
Airport Almost Thwarts Rowling
immanentize @ 291
well, they said either 11:15 or 11:50, I wasn’t listening very well ;)
sometime in the 11:00 hour
twolf1 @
289
Chimpco is numb as a hake, as we say here. If the bodies don’t “belong” to the US, Chimpco don’t care, wait, Chimpco doesn’t even care about those.
With all the munitions that have been traded in the ME for decades, no one has to bring any into Baghdad from outside anyway. And with the number of “double agents” that must exist within those who “work” for the coalition forces in Baghdad/Green Zone, lord knows what’s being taken out of “our” supplies on a daily basis.
File under “We Have Our Research and Goopers Have Theirs” and settle in for a long prologue to a tale that you may or may not finally choose to read (though I bet many of you will) . . .
Without a URL but with the comment “Here is something that will not show up in the Wash. Post, NY Times, CNN or whatever,” a friend has just sent me an essay by George Friedman called “Iraq: The Policy Dilemma.” I began reading it then, intrigued about where this came from and who GF is, veered off to check around.
Turns out it was published last week by John Mauldin at Investors Insight. Mauldin’s intro not only identifies George Friedman as “the President of Stratfor.com, … my main and favorite source for geo-political news and analysis,” but invites the reader to click a link for a 50%-off subscription to Stratfor.
“Stratfor” ringing a faint bell, I checked a bit more. From the Center for Media & Democracy’s website:
With this background, then, here is George Friedman’s essay, which begins:
How many CEOs actually do rely on George Friedman remains an open question. I just found this all interesting enough to pass along . . .
that trench around the city of Baghdad sounds suspiciously like city walls of olden times to repel the barbarian hordes…
in VietNam that concept was called “strategic hamlets” — now they are going to try to put a 6-million person city inside a fence of sorts. That’s the entire population of the state of Indiana! (or Israel)
hacking a voting machine on CNN now
yeah! Princeton on CNN with vote machine!
A former vice president of Diebold told me that former CEO Walden O’Dell strongly recommended that his execs contribute yearly to the Republican party – say, around $2,000 each. While it was not mandatory, it was known that those who did not contribute hit the glass ceiling a little faster than those who did. Wally kept notes on who gave and who didn’t. Smells like extortion to me. Anyone who cares about a fair election should scream about using Diebold machines. God, I’d love to take a baseball bat to the polls with me (only for the machines… not for the octogenerians who staff the polling places).
American credibility in shambles.
Look at what the Chinese Xinhua News Agency is frontpaging on their website.
US Iran/nuclear report “dishonest”.
Not to mention Colin Powell’s latest letter calling into question US ethics.
Rogue nation anyone?
-GSD
Oh yeah. The fact that the Bush/Rove Republican Party helped to squash the primary campaign of Cranston RI Mayor Steve Laffey who ran against “liberal” Republican Linc Chaffee must have manyof the hardcore faithful demoralized….
That is what is known as divisive triangualtion and it must have many right wingers pissed.
The more they are divided the better.
-GSD
morning Pups,
PowWow Thanks. I’m off to watch Novack on CSapn
A Diary over at Kos reports that the latest Rasmussen is in for CT – and it is good news for Lamont after those other (questionable) polls showing him behind by double digits. I have cut and pasted the diary below:
Rasmussen has just come out with a new poll behind the subscription wall, but since these polls are put out there
i figure it`s ok to give the results.
Rasmussen has this race a dead heat
LIEBERMAN 45
LAMONT 43
Now all other polls show Lieberman with a double digit lead
so it`s a question who to believe. I think Rasmussen has a pretty good record with state polls.
also of interest TESTER 52
BURNS 43
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..8291/46398
’s better than that if the CW of Rasmussen tilting right is to be believed
poor Bob Novak looks like he’s at death’s door – extremely decrepit !
Fox News this morning showed how Diebold machines can be hacked. They had a demonstration where they all (3) voted for George Washington vs Benedict Arnold. The official tally printed out
Washington 1
Arnold 2
The computer guy said that a virus injected into the machine can alter the vote. Diebold immediately released a statement saying ‘not so’ but the demonstration was convincing.
Rather than tear my hair out trying to figure out why the news and most other branches of the establishment aren’t up in arms over this system of vote manipulation, I take the other tack: If the newspapers and politicians aren’t complaining, it’s because they want such a system.
Anything short of a fair, verifiable vote is contrary to the interest of all citizens, but certain interests think an antidemocratic system works for them. Concentration of power, concentration of money, concentration of control, . . . See a pattern yet?
from CSpan – Vicky Toensing in the WSJ is jumping all over Armitage
Fox News this morning showed how Diebold machines can be hacked
As I live and breathe . . .
Thanks, Solai, for that most interesting development! (And welcome to the Lake?)
let’s see… CNN has reported on the vote machines and Fox has… let’s keep track of who else! think I’ll write my Sec of State again today…
I think it was on KO last night… (is it David Schuster that does the Plame reporting?)… his concluding statement was “Bob Novak is a very strange guy”
Old Sow @ 284
Bush said yesterday it’s not worth investing more resources in going after Osama bin Forgotten. But we can afford the money and manpower to build an f***king trench around Baghdad!!!
Big Dawg Thread!
Other famous walls and trenches in history: The Great Wall of China
The French Maginot Line
Yes, these ultimately failed. Republicans probably know this. However, builing these things gives Republicans great opportunities to gather yet more plunder. That’s their real motivation.
I live in a republican controlled district and I voted by absentee ballot last election, I still have doubts about my vote being counted.
*xyz @ 304
Thanks for sharing this xyz! It better matches what I see happening in CT. There is so much enthusiasm about Lamont’s campaign – his volunteer meetings are standing room only and are all over the state. There is so much energy and commitment and the more people see of Lamont, the more they like him. Driving around Connecticut – there are still Lamont signs up in people’s yards and support cuts across socio-economic segments. I’ve seen Lamont signs in blue collar neighborhoods in Danbury and also in upscale Redding, Ridgefield and Wilton.
Unfortunately, the same can’t be said about support for Liarman. In fact, as far as I can see all Liarman has going for him are a few CT Dem party leader defections, name recognition after being active in state politics for over 20 years, a national platform for his continued whining and projection and some apathy among old time Dems and Republican voters (oh, I forgot – support from Bush, Cheney, Rove and his friends at Fox). As the campaign heats up, I can see these things fade away (except the fervent support of BushCo and the wingnuts) and focus being placed on his record of rubber stamping BushCo, missing key votes on Iraq and his obnoxious and selfish behavior – and how all of the above negatively impact CT and our country.
Um… anyone still here? Anyway, I was chief judge at a polling place in Maryland on Tuesday, so I’ve dealt with Diebold equipment close-up (also in 2004).
First, I do not trust the software in the machines, because I know there are “secret” features built into the touch-screen interface. For instance, a supervisor can press a certain non-obvious spot on the screen to cancel out a ballot that was abandoned before being cast. I proudly don my tinfoil hat when joining discussions of Diebold.
However, nefarious plans are also aided and abetted by plain old incompetence. Maryland’s new electronic poll-books (EPBs) would be a great convenience if they worked properly. However, the Diebold EPBs we had to use on Tuesday did a terrible job of encoding the access cards that activate the Diebold voting machines. We got our missing access cards pretty quickly, but 2/3 of the time they didn’t work in the EPB. (We had no problems at all using them in the voting machines.) The software on the EPBs also needs debugging and much more user training.
I’m more worried about Diebold themselves hacking the voting machines than an outsider doing it. At least in Maryland, we cover the unit’s keyholes with numbered “tamper tapes” that would reveal any attempt to access the memory cards, etc. And the units are secured to their stands, in cases which are locked with numbered seals. Chief judges spend lots of time writing down all sorts of serial numbers (including those on the memory cards) on various “chain of custody” documents that get submitted for review.
Quite often liberals complain about the democratic representatives being spineless. This frame plays into the republican effort to make democratic representatives appear weak.
The problem is that Democratic Party members are locked into a chess game in which they draw the black pieces every time, since they are in the minority.
Passion is important because it is the energy behind change, but when it comes to implementing change, it is back to the chess board down a couple of pieces.
We just witnessed the power of propagandists in the media to sell their lies, with “The Path to 9/11.”
No one was permitted to say that republican incompetence and arrogance allowed 9/11 to occur, yet media giants like Disney and ABC believe that they can get away with slandering the previous administration and paint liberal leaning professionals, in and outside of government as baffoons, shrews, and self-serving liars who were in some vague way responsible for 9/11. 9/11 occurred on the republican’s watch, and no amount of historical revisionism can deny this fact.
Therefore, democratic representatives enter the chess game on defense with the black queen missing. (This is the equivalent of showing up for a gun fight with a knife.) In this case the black and the white queen represent the media. The democrats must play carefully because of the mainstream media’s formidable influence over Americans’ perceptions of events, debates and conclusions, and they have felt the sting of the media behemoth when it turns on them for an ill-spoken phrase or the slightest hint of impropriety, while creating an atmosphere of cynical acceptance for republican malfeasance. It is the exact formula to prevent accountability for republican representatives, and has been used by the Mob and intelligence agencies for years.
If one wonders where so much corrupt, misrepresented, and mean-spirited legislation comes from, it is the cooperation between the corporate and intelligence communities that is the driving force against our democratic republic.
These are just some of the disadvantages that the democrats have to reason through if not to gain remarkable victories, at least to be able to hold their position.
Another problem democrats face is that some of them want to grow up to be republicans. They have bought into the concept that what is good for business is good for America, yet there are many historical examples that prove that concept is false.
Is unrestricted corruption and greed the wisest path? The republicans need to prove this, other than through rhetoric and propaganda to maintain the illusion that is created to solely benefit their circles of influence.
Supposely America has cycled between extreme corruption, (manipulation of the system by corporate and wealthy individuals’,) to periods of adjustment so that at least the appearance of fairness, and equal opportunity occurs, though the actual downward distribution of wealth is a minimal concession of those in power.
With scarce resourses and looming economic collapse in the not too distant future, these phrases have become the justications for fraud, theft, betrayal and an absense of heroic leadership, (necessary when the ship is sinking.) Without such leadership the only one’s to survive extreme hardship, some people believe, are those who are focused on taking care of themselves at the expense of others; it is often a choice of the misguided and cowardly.
It is not political genius that makes the current administration appear to be a viable creation of the democratic process; it is the fact that the media serve as bodyguard, advocate, legal counsel and main propagandist for it. This works because the administration hands out favors and privilege to the “right-minded” (willing to play ball) media, as if they are rewards rather than tools of manipulation.
Unfortunately there are some, (whatever the exact percentage – too many,) people who would betray their “fellow citizens” for, what they believe is earned and entitled reward. Those who have been changing the direction the U.S. is headed are making their decisions based on their opinions rather than to take their cues from the here and now. Actions based on opinion are dangerous and irresponsible.
Badwater,
Chaos hastens and increases the flow of dollars. War creates chaos on a grand scale, and offers the opportunity for larceny for those on the inside of the game. Outsides, often do not realize what hit them until the opportunity has passed.
Badwater,
Chaos hastens and increases the flow of dollars. War creates chaos on a grand scale, and offers the opportunity for larceny for those on the inside of the game. Outsiders often do not realize what hit them, until the opportunity has passed.
Aw c’mon, shouldn’t we just trust the Republicans?
I mean, the producers of “The Path to 9/11″ swore to Harvey Keitel that they were making a historically accurate miniseries about the lead-up to the 9/11 attacks, and, and, well, okay, maybe we can’t trust the Republicans.
But, but, Diebold keeps promising that their voting machines are perfectly reliable and accurate. In fact, these machines are called “AccuVote” so they must be accurate and will give Americans a historically accurate count of our votes, and, and, well, okay, maybe we can’t trust the Republicans.
In fact, true-blue United States citizens, those loyal to our democracy, can no more trust the Republicans than the American Revolutionaries could trust the Tories or anyone of the Red Coats from whose aristocratic, conservative hands we wrenched our freedom 230 years ago.
To Arms!! To Arms!!
The Republicans are coming!!
The Republicans are coming!!