
About this little thing I like to call the Constitution, Mary gives us all a reminder:
For wiretaps – a judge has ruled the program is UNCONSTITUIONAL. Not just a violation of FISA – a violation of the Constitution.
Congress can’t legislate away the Constitution.
That they try to do that is not just contemptible for their own oaths of office – it shows the same “Bush league” concept of putting other people on the line for their lapse of duty. A judge has already ruled, appeals will go up, but what happens with an Agency that is being ordered – via Executive Order and Congressional legislation – to violate the Consitution?
We’ve been there. Kilbourn v. Thompson, 103 US 168. Congress orders that a man be taken into custody for contempt and the Sergeant at Arms, (among others) of the House of Representatives follows through on that order. And is later found guilty of false imprisonment.
The members of the House who initiated the Order were held protected by the Speech and Debate Clause for ordering the detention, on the floor, but that did not shield anyone who followed through on their order.
Not only that, but for the privileges and immunities sought by everyone involved in Executive and Legislative branch criminal activity, this quote/admonishment:
If we could suppose the members of these bodies so far to forget their high functions and the noble instrument under which they act as to imitate the Long Parliament in the execution of the Chief Magistrate of the nation, or to follow the example of the French Assembly in assuming the function of a court for capital punishment, we are not prepared to say that such an utter perversion of their powers to a criminal purpose would be screened from punishment by the constitutional provision for freedom of debate
It’s a little something to be kept in mind. “Following orders” is not a defense. Reliance on tainted memoranda prepared for a President and not for those who will be enacting his orders – is not a defense. And reliance on immunities and classification rights — very iffy when crimes are involved.
Congress is being completely feckless to put people in this position.
Most days, it is a joy to read through our comments. But this morning, it truly is an embarassment of riches.
Take, for example, this gem from Peterr:
Dems need to plainly tell the truth about what we believe:
We believe that the Geneva Convention works. We do not believe in torture.
We believe in accountability and the rule of law. We do not believe in secret prisons or warrantless wiretaps, outside the scrutiny of the courts.
We believe that our morality is not dependent upon the morality of others. We do not believe in giving up our moral stature in times of war.
We believe that no one is above the law – not the president, not the CIA, not the Justice Department, not the Congress, not the courts, not corporations, not unions, not lobbyists.
We believe that no one is beneath the law – not the poor, not the non-English speakers, not the immigrant (legal or not), not the ill, not the outcasts of our society.
We believe that the military and the officers of the intelligence communuity are safer with the Geneva Conventions in place. We do not believe in cutting and running from the protections of Geneva.
Most of all, we believe in three branches of government that hold each other accountable as they do the people’s business.
We do not believe in King George. Not in 1776, and not in 2006. (emphasis mine)
I may have to fax this around to a few offices today.
And there are these thoughts from Prof which I found particularly on point, as usual:
Christy was careful to use the term unilateral executive, not unitary executive. I suggest that we do the same.
The Executive is, indeed, mostly unitary. 99% of all agencies and departments (Department of Energy, EPA, Forest Service) work under the control of the President, not independently. Only a tiny number of specialized independent agencies and commissions exist. The unitary executive theory contends that even those should not exist, although it’s only a constitutional theory. However, the Bush Administration has pressed for something much worse, while using the term “unitary” for what they are trying to do.
What Bush and his crowd are trying to do goes beyond the issue of administering laws and whether this should be done by independent agencies and commissions or by departments that are accountable to the President.
They want to take power away from the Congress and the courts — that is, from the other constitutional branches of government.
They are amassing unilateral power — unchecked by other branches, no checks and balances.
(They also execute unilateralism in foreign policy, acting with little or no respect even for our long-time allies, never mind the rest of the world on which they seem happy to trample.)
Why should we use the words that the Bush folks, John Yoo, and others use to try to fit their extreme views within terminology that has an acceptable constitutional pedigree — unitary?
We should use our own terms, and the right one here for what they are attempting is unilateral executive. Let’s not let them frame this debate.
As for the Schechter Poultry decision, it has not been good law in the US for 70 years. The Supreme Court effectively abandoned the “non-delegation doctrine” in subsequent cases such as Yakus v. United States (1944). Anyway, Schechter was about whether Congress could give powers to the Executive Branch. Yes, it can. The unconstitutionalty of signing statements is not an instance of Congress delegating the power, however. It is about the President arrogating power to himself.
The correct precedent for challenging Presidential power-grabs — the unilateral executive — is Youngstown. (emphasis mine)
Prof is correct — I did choose the "Unilateral Executive" terminology expressly because that is what the Bush Administration and their cronies in Congress are attempting to establish. And, as Dr. Bong correctly pointed out in the comments, Glenn caught some wingnut intellectual inconsistencies on this issue. Ooops. Someone get out the self-serving, power-hungry version of the flip-flops.
Here’s something for everyone to read. I like to call it the Constitution. Perhaps someone could send a link to this handy document on which our nation’s laws are based to people who ought to have read it — you know, such as the President, the members of Congress, and whatever other idiots are trying to pretend that it no longer exists if it gets in the way of unilateral power grabs.
Had enough? I know I sure have.
Related posts:
- On Constitution Day, Celebrate the Rights of People (Not Corporations)
- al-Haramain Reply Filed; Constitution, Rule of Law in Judge Walker’s Hands
- Hamsher on Shuster: A Call for More Transparency
- Harry Reid Re-opens the Senate Floor to Amendments, but Promotes Unconstitutional Bills of Attainder on “Constitution Day”
- Innocence Ended: Uighurs Still Seek Fair Day in Court





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Wow. First.
ReddHedd, g’morning!
Tom Paine !
Please let me pimp this for one and a final time :
Thank You Keith Olbermann {TYKO}
Yesterday I decided to google ” Thank You Keith Olbermann” just to see if someone had put up a site similar to the one that sprang up for Colbert this past summer.
To my surprise, there was nothing…..
There is now. We know that the noise machine will be coming after him even harder now that he’s stepped up. And for all we know the messages to MSNBC on his behalf may go directly into the worlds biggest e-mail trash can. But TYKO is out on the web for all to see. So stop by and just say a simple Thank You. This isn’t going to be a fan site. I’m not going to do a lot of posts, I’m not going to preach. Just a place to say thanks.
Tell others about it, add a link to it…..There’s code for a button right there to cut and paste…Look for ” ATTA BOY “
http://thank-you-keith-olbermann.blogspot.com/
COLORADO BOB
Let’s not forget that counterintelligence agents are signing up in record numbers for liability insurance to protect themselves against lawsuits and Congressional inquiries about their behavior under “legal authority” the DoJ may elect not to defend them against in the future:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01286.html
Christy,
I believe sometime this past spring Bush became snarky at a press conference and referred to the Consitution as “just a Goddam piece of paper.” Isn’t that treason?
Christy, amen, sistah. I presume you have another post in mind for meta’s excellent Youtube find of Barabara Jordan on the constitution. (Hint, hint, hint)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pNHFP-ws0s
Terrific essay, Christy.
Everyone should spotlight this post to every national and local reporter, editor, columnist, panelist, anchor, etc. Pick a category, use the “more” and search function to narrow the search, and send it out to the world.
Happy B’day, Lotus! (late, but, hey, I have to work some time!)
—–
I’m wondering if we need to send around to all the congresscritters asking them if they’re planning to repeal the 1st and 4th Amendments, since they don’t seem to be interested in protecting them any more. And Specter needs to be tossed.
Happy Birthday Lotus – was it yesterday?
John Yoo-the torture architect of the Dumya administration was on C-Span this am. A pissed off woman called in and asked him if he had read the constitution lately. He said he reads “the thing” everyday. The THING. What a fascist.
Berkley actually gave him a professorship there. Hard to believe THAT. Seems he teaches constitutional law.
Alrighty then.
Thanks *ilbo.
and The Rvd. FUNNY. Spew warning would have been nice. Its okay. New computer is on order. Yippee.
OT – Roger Sharpe now has the “Had Enough” video prominently displayed on his web site (top right hand corner). Includes the FDL back story : )
http://www.sharpeforcongress.com/
Constitution? What’s that?
So, how exactly does the Specter bill alter the current situation (ie SC says warrantless wiretapping unconstitutional, congress/repubs say it’s legal) in any way, if it passes? It’s still not a constitutional amendment and therefore we’re still in he said/she said so long as the executive refuses to comply with the judiciary.
Redd,
you are so eloquent when you are mad
Christy: Thanks for the h/t – I did realize, after posting that comment, however, that Glenn was referring to Glenn Reynolds, not Hindraker… But the two could be considered pretty much interchangable, no?
:-)
Jan @ 11
I don’t know how Yoo managed to pass the bar, or get hired by Boalt Hall, given his very strange views. Seems he thinks there’s a Constitution for peacetime and a Constitution for wartime. Funny, I’ve never seen or heard that from anyone else.
Happy birthday Ms Lotus,
Brought you a mid-morning birthday snack
Florida Mom @
12
Excellent. Beyond excellent. Tipping point excellent! Yes!
Jan @ 11
I wonder if anyone thought to ask Yoo the obvious follow-up question: “Did you understand it?”
I do wonder if our current Supreme Court would make the same call.
Of all the damage done by BushCo, the Supreme Court appointments have the greatest potential for harm.
Which is why the Alito nomination and cloture vote was so significant.
“Its the was stupid” is a great rallying cry for the elections, but…
“It’s the SCOTUS, scholars”
“It’s just a Goddamn piece of paper.”
They ought to put that on his headstone,if they even bother to mark his grave.
ot
they’re trying to get bolton extended
http://www.rawstory.com/showar…..25_pf.html
Bustednuckles @ 23
Omigosh he will have a huge-ass headstone if the unfricking real bust that has been erected to him for his service in National Guard is any indication. Wish I knew how to make a link. Google it. So insulting to the men and women who are acutally serving in our armed forces and are defending The Constituion against all enemies foreign and domestic.
But alas his Presidential Library will only contain a copy of My Pet Goat.
Okay, gang, here’s my first pass, let me know if you think I need to tweak it any further.
Be kind by being constructive. Thanks.
And now back to writing press releases and fundraising invites…
Christy,
or any one of you other “legal eagles” out there:
when we get right down to it, what do you think is the real bottom line perspective of the Cheney Administration on all of this? we have our fears of what they might be up to, and our snarky dark humor about it, what do you really feel they are up to and why?
It’s just a goddamed piece of paper – GWB.
Time to resurrect one of our FDL oldies but goodies:
“The Constitution: Are you for it or against it?”
Bustednuckles @
23
cletus has already written his epitaph……….
Powell expresses opposition to Bush plan on military tribunals
“The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism. To redefine Common Article Three would add to those doubts,” he wrote.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20…..0914153814
Interesting that the country might be saved by those of us who were taught:
(1) to think independently
(2) to be patriotic and honor the Constitution.
That whole coalition with progressives, libertarians, gun owners, true conservatives, and what’s left of the CIA and the FBI—-ok that’s just strange.
Second amendment people and first amendment people, together at last.
It takes a
villagecoalition to raze a child-president.Powell: Too little, too late
:(
Rayne:
May I borrow your letter?
Rayne – one correction at this point: please replace SB2453 with S.2453; that’s how it is numbered on http://www.thomas.gov. This is the bill Senator Specter introduced six months ago.
Shez @ 29
I love it!
Rayne,
I’d hit the “warrantless” aspect harder, and leave the “what’s a wiretap” discussion for another day.
Try this: “The constitution allows searches, but requires that they be done with judicial oversight. This bill makes oversight optional, in complete disregard of the constitutional protections.”
Also, I’d take your paragraph “Lastly . . .” and break it into two paragraphs. Let “As President Ronald Reagan said . . .” be the start of your summation.
“Trust but verify” isn’t a bad description of what the Founders meant by “checks and balances.”
Good stuff!
This is what happens when the president of the United States, and many in his administration, feel no compunction about answering to anyone but themselves and their own agenda, and have no reverence for the document that has held this country together for over 200 years. Leaders set standards of practice and behavior regardless of whether they are leading well or leading badly, and in the case of George Bush, the standard he has set has given others the justification for making end runs around Supreme Court rulings and for ignoring the principles and precepts of the Constitution. These are people for whom the phrase “the ends justify the means” is more important than any law, any principle, any objection, and as long as those who are charged with oversight of this branch of government continue to turn a blind eye to their responsibilities and to the violations being made, it will continue. And it will get worse. The more this kind of behavior becomes the norm, the harder it will be to get back to where we should be, and the weaker our voices will be.
There is an army of citizens who approve of George Bush’s methods, and who will take – and have taken – these democratically antithetical behaviors and tactics into all levels of government, so the standard has to be changed at the top, while efforts are made to stop it at state and local levels.
We need to be an army, too, and if we don’t do it now, it will be too late.
In a perfect world, we would find people on the staffs of these Dems and assign them the job of reading FDL to their Senator or Representative every day. The posts and comments are a wealth of ideas, talking points and counter arguments to the crap the GOP keeps trying to sell as truth.
Cozumel @
13
I just wanted to give props to our dear TeddySanFran, who (as I recall) is the guy who got the “HAD ENOUGH?” meme rolling.
Lookie what you did, Teddy! You S W I N G !
Bustednuckles @ 23
Early Halloween Decoration- Tombstones in front yards across the nation…
All you need: styrofoam, a sharp knife, wood burning tool (optional), acrylic spray paint
Here Lies Democracy
1776 – 2006
R.I.P.
me to me @
24
i think that this is a perfect example of the fact that the Cheney Administration will be fighting us every step of the way. without exception.
in stubbornness, we have a quality in which Fuckwad (accent on the last syllable) is very much the equal to Deadeye. They are the Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid of Fascism. And why, pray tell, is nobody talking about Dr. Stealth himself, David Addington? Now there is the Mega-Black-Hole the Constitution is being sucked into.
*ilbo @ 20
Amen and pass the bread!!!
Go Amendment by Amendment on the Bill of Rights, offering Resolutions in Support. Ties with LHP below at 124 if they would just get off their butts and do it. They’d have whatever support they want – instead of a “base” that ends up ashamed to be associated with them.
Resolutions in support of the Oath of Office.
Resolutions AGAINST having the President interefere with state criminal investigations (hellooooo New Jersey)
And on and on.
Stand up and say
WE WILL NOT VIOLATE OUR OATHS OF OFFICE;
WE WILL NOT REQUIRE EMPLOYEES OF UNITED STATES AGENCIES TO VIOLATE THEIR OATHS OF OFFICE;
WE WILL NOT FORCE EMPLOYEES OF OUR AGENCIES TO SEEK OUT LEGAL INSURANCE ON THEIR OWN BECAUSE THEIR PRESIDENT HAS ORDERED THEM TO VIOLATE THE LAW AND CONSITUTION AND THEIR CONGRESS HAS ABANDONED THEM;
WE BELIEVE THAT OUR REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES DO NOT WISH TO VIOLATE THEIR OATHS OF OFFICE;
WE PRAY THAT THEY FIND THE COURAGE TO STAND UP TO VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY;
WE WILL STAND WITH THEM IF THEY NEED OUR SUPPORT TO DEFEND THE COUNTRY AND CONSTITUTION; BUT
WE WILL STAND AGAINST THEM IF THEIR COURAGE FAILS.
A few little somethings like that.
I’m all for sending the Constituion links – I took my coffee mug with the fourth redacted to work.
The youtube link from earlier would be wonderful to send as well.
Christy & Jane – the best.
Off for awhile, but I’ll be calling.
In his novel 1984, Orwell made the connection. So long as the matter was breach-of-privacy the matter was disquieting, distrubing, perhaps even disugusting. But it wasn’t until he made the connection that the lack of privacy led to rats gnawing on human flesh that it became truly horrifying.
We have before us two very dangerous bills:
– The Specter bill that will legalize the breaching of privacy.
– The Military Commissions Act of 2006, which legalizes war crimes.
Both are horrible and both are urgent. But the torture issue is more concrete and IMHO will have more traction with the public. Also, it is a matter on which SCOTUS has already spoken and ruled against Bush. So if it comes to a question of where to focus first, I’d pick that one. But preferrably we can focus on both together.
But we are indeed fighting an attempt by the Bush administration to implement 1984.
Bustednuckles @ 23
There’ll be people standing in line, pants unzpped, to mark his grave.
Rayne,
Fabulous letter…You FDL’ers or so freakin talented. It makes this girl feel slightly inadequate but nonetheless I will still compose something to send to my local papers, elected official, etc. Does anyone care if I take a few snippets from here and there to help me construct it??? Thanks for all you guys do!!!!
Dru you just set off a huge brainstorm. My husband and I carve elaborate jack-o-lanterns every year. Between them and the grave stones it will be a Halloween to remember. I’m building a coffin and putting a copy of the Constitution in it. Oh wow. My neighbors are just gonna love me. Have to go back to work. Take care all.
In the preface to this BEAUTIFUL illustrated Constitution of the United States of America it quotes Ben Franklin from a letter he wrote urging ratification:
(emphasis mine)
rayne, I’m at work, can’t do much but skim
I hope you got “steal from us” in there…just,me I guess I’m a little militant about that but I think it’s important to get that into the debate
me to me @ 24
Not many ways to spin this: apparently, Bushco thinks it can completely bypass the advice and consent of the Senate. Maybe somebody needs to read “the thing” again.
Dru @ 40
Very poetic. Street theatre of a sort. All over the country………….
Absolutely superb post–thanks to Peterr, Prof, Mary, and especially Christy.
Spotlight.
Spotlight.
Spotlight.
George Bush I think, really believes he IS the Constitution. He did it through Constitutional nullification. Not so fast BOY! There’s a rude awaking, awaiting you, this fall. No more monkey business. Hear? You will be the lamest of quacks.
egregious @ 32
And, irony of all ironies, the continued right of wingnuts, neo-cons, raciscts, and Ann Coulter to continue to spout their inanities.
The U.S. Constitution is a miraculous document, indeed, because it guarantees the rights of even those who do not believe in it.
Florida Mom 46;
Mine will be going right next to the jerk-o-lantern like the one I carved last year. A crossed through dubya.
EPU’d but on topic – Here in CT, Rep. Nancy Johnson (R-Bush Toady) released an absolutely horrendous commercial that completely plays on people’s ignorance about FISA. The outrage today is incredible.
While we love our Ned, we also want some other Dems to get elected.
http://ctbob.blogspot.com/2006…..chine.html
christy! thank so much for addressing this issue, which has been baffling me since specter’s bill started germinating.
we can’t legislate against the constitution outside a full amendment. good luck getting THAT to work in this case!
why has it taken so long for this question to get asked???
OT:
Happy birthday, Lotus
I’ve got this dim recollection that Bush took an oath to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
Oathbreaker.
Where are my manners?
HAPPY BIRTHDAY FLOWAH!!!
‘ere.
SP CPA — so noted, bill number modified per your suggestion.
Peterr — I really don’t think I can separate the warrantless from the wiretapping. Basically, Specter, standing in for Bush/Cheney, asks for a carte blanche permission slip in the same bill to do SOMETHING undefined to SOMEONE also undefined.
Nope, not going to fly. I’ve made a few tweaks, underlining warrantless throughout the letter for starters. Here’s the next pass:
I’ve indicated some key bits I tweaked with italics — and I broke up that large paragraph at the end as you suggested, Peterr.
Thanks for the assist, gang.
Florida Mom — sure, use as you see fit, but customize for your home state and Senators, and any other unique situation that fits your perspective.
fahrender @
50
I am heading to the crafts store today to get the stuff that tombstones are made of…
thanks Dru for a great idea, the project itself will be therapeutic
Here is a bulletin that “NSA Warantless Wiretapping Approval Passes Senate Judiciary Committee in Party Line Vote”.
Paging mods: Clean up on aisle 59, thank you.
aol via Huffpo
http://articles.news.aol.com/n…..3409990014
RT @ 60
When he took that pledge his right hand was on the Bible and the fingers of his left hand were crossed. I think that means the oath didn’t count.
FYI, it seems like Dana Priest’s chatzing is lonely today, in case anyone would like to ask a question….
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01239.html
Teddy, I submitted 3 already. There must be a glitch. btw, was that yours she took? :)
jmba @ 45
The little secret: we all feel slightly inadequate…. Take more than snippets, use everything you can to move things forward.
Your energy, enthusiasm, and willingness to plunge in are amazingly important. Each of us has something to contribute.
I have a good feeling about what you are going to grow into. Start where you are; then become the amazing person you are destined to be.
If we stopped at our obstacles…well that’s another post for another time. The intersection between mental incapacity and political action is explored at my humble blog. Obstacles R us. :)
TAKE ACTION! DO WHAT YOU CAN! EVEN IF WE ARE DOOMED TAKE ACTION TO HELP THE CHILDREN.
darkblack @
58
Wow. That was awesome. Lotus, hope you’re out celebrating in style. But you must come back here and see this darkblack Special.
Oh, and dark, that Mount Bushmore was one of your best.
colorado bob @ 4
Thanks for a place to tell Keith “thanks”, COBob. I just added this to the site:
Keith-
Intellectually, I thought I was fully aware of how far we have gone down the path to totalitarianism, but hearing you speak the blunt words of truth to power I suddenly feared for you and because of that fear of possible repercussions I became aware on a visceral level of the danger this beloved Republic is in.
How long has it been since we have heard the truth spoken without personal calculation or political bowdlerization by someone with a national forum?
Thank you Keith, for an example of patriotic courage.
egregious @ 70
Thanks for the support and encouragement, some of us start with baby steps, but this blog has really empowered me to feel like I CAN effect change, however small, however subtle, we all do have something to offer. :)
Happy birthday to our flower Lotus.
Thank you for your community building, your enthusiasm, your encouragement, and your willingness to share your human imperfections. Would that we could all do this.
Each of us has a piece of the puzzle; no one has the whole.
And this via Juan Cole,
It’s heartening to see the Iraq War has been good for somebody.
http://www.financialexpress.co….._id=140306
OT–Deja vu
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02052.html
jmba at 72 –
That just made my day. :)
Rayne @
61
Happy to help, and it looks and flows much better all the way through. Now if only some folks would read it with as much thought for the country as you demonstrated when you wrote it . . .
meta @ 71
Thank you, meta …I really must lavish more time on these items to deserve such praise.
persiflage & piffle @ 72
meta @ 70
What meta said. I’d also put yesterday’s shot of the Pajamahadeen and the Big Dawg on that “Best of” list.
Thank you Christy, It is the least I can do seeing as you make my day every day!!!
And thank you CTBob for creating that site. I added my letter I originally sent this week to Keith and various MSNBC heads…, but no one wrote back..hmmmmmmm I swear I won’t let that stop me!
jmba — go for it. It’s AMAZING how little it can take to make positive progress.
Look at FireDogLake; a little over a year ago it was just one of many progressive blogs.
But unlike many progressive blogs, this one was differentiated by action. Little things at first, then gradually bigger things. And then look out…
What’s incredibly AMAZING is that once you begin, you realize you can do almost ANYTHING to which you open your mind, and then some.
I helped make a television ad for a state senate candidate last week. Never, EVER, did I imagine that I’d be in a televised ad. I can’t wait for my kids to giggle when they see me.
And all it took was getting in the car, showing up, spending a half-hour on the set.
If that’s what it takes to get a really great Democratic state senator elected, I can do that much, it was just a little thing.
Go for it!
While we are discussing the NSA CYA act and its constitutionality, we should also keep in mind the other major legislation King Georgie the Decider wants regarding military tribunals, detainees, and coercive interrogation techniques. While the court said that tribunals COULD be legal if passed by Congress, the rules they would have to be governed by are laid out in the Geneva Conventions. Now my ConLaw is a little rusty, but I do remember a section that makes treaty obligations the equivalent of law. This principil was changed by Chief Justice Marshall in 1829, but would it not require us to either renegotiate the treaty or for Congress to decide to pull out of the Conventions altogether? (hey its been 20 years since I last took ConLaw, so please be kind)
Citation from LIFE Magazine 4/23/45 — FDR funeral edition.
Froomkin leads with this story too: A Defining Moment for Congress.
So, how will the Democrats in Congress be defined by history, when this chapter is written:
Defenders of the Constitution?
Protectors of the Rule of Law?
Champions of Checks and Balances?
Or Lapdogs for King George?
Rayne – hope it’s not too late, but here is my suggestion for changes/edits to your letter (which I think is a great letter, by the way – and my changes may be more about style than substance!)
Rayne, you just kick ass!
Rayne at 83 — hell, I haven’t even been blogging with Jane for a year, and two days ago I had a meeting with Bill Clinton. Talk about putting your mind to doing something and having it take you where you NEVER expected…
As for Warner, yes it’s the torture and the worry that it will open the floodgates of depravity against Americans in captivity. But it’s also equally the problem of changing the rules of evidence. Not allowing defendants access to discovery out of fear of exposing secrets? This is so transparently about BREAKING THE LAW and having to hide their methods and practices…..How could this possibly be construed as carrying out justice within the law? They can rewrite all they want, it will not stand the test of our legal system.
Thanks Rayne,
I am seriously considering a change of professions because I am so passionate about the need for change in this country and hopefully it will start by showing up, volunteering and making myself available to be a part of the process. I really can’t thank all of you enough for what you do to help me feel motivated and empowered. Oops, my little peanuts (twin 2 year old boys) are vying for my attention, so must log off…will be back later…. In Solid jmba
Anne — WOW. A “faith-based initiative”!!!
Damn, that was good!! Thank you!!!
Speaking of taking action – I have one practical step that we all can take every day that would make a world of difference:
USE SPOTLIGHT
It is an incredibly powerful tool! And did you know that you can spotlight any post from over a dozen different progressive websites, including firedoglake, talkingpointsmemo and dailykos? Because you can! And it is easy.
All you have to do is cut and past the address for the website that you like into the spotlight website, and it takes care of the rest.
My personal goal is to spotlight Lamont/Lieberman articles to CT opinion makers in the press and television media.
My recommendation to everyone at FDL is to use at least once daily to send an article that caught your attention to the appropriate people. In doing so, you will make a huge difference – you will be focusing the media narrative on the issues that matter to you and to progressives.
I try to spotlight 1-5 articles a day, and I think that is a reasonable goal for all of us. And it feels darn good to do it.
Here’s the link to the main spotlight page – please use it! I have the feeling that we have only scraped the surface of its powerful potential and I look forward to hearing about how other people here at FDL have been using it recently.
http://www.thespotlightproject.org/
And here is a list of all the blogs that can be spotlighted:
http://www.dailykos.com
http://www.firedoglake.com
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com
http://www.mydd.com
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com
http://www.taylormarsh.com
http://www.democrats.com
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com
glenngreenwald.blogspot.com
bobgeiger.blogspot.com
http://www.crooksandliars.com
http://www.intoxination.net
spewingforth.blogspot.com
http://www.seeingtheforest.com
openlettertoabc.blogspot.com
http://www.patriotproject.com
http://www.agonist.org
http://www.thinkprogress.org
http://www.theleftcoaster.com
http://www.warandpiece.com
delong.typepad.com
angie @ 69
Well, mine was the first, and there seem to be a bunch of San Franciscans chatzing today….
Florida Mom @
6
It wasn’t a press conference, it was in a private meeting w/ GOP Congressthings — I don’t think Bush would get away with saying it publicly, at least at this point.
And the provenance of the comment isn’t great: it originally came out in Capitol Hill Blue. I’m not 100% sure what CHB’s track record is, but remember thinking at the time it came out that it would be nice if somebody more legit would confirm.
Rayne @ 91
Happy to oblige!
We believe that the reputation and integrity of the United States among the community of nations are not only not worthless, but possibly our greatest and most valuable assets. They is not to be squandered.
Bustednuckles @
23
Busted: here’s cleter’s epitaph for Fuckwad:
” he was nothing if not
a selfish, self-absorbed
little turd. “
1,263 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
FDLers:
The outcome of the November elections AND, resulting therefrom, the future of constitutional and representative government hang on the debate up-coming on advancing an unconstitutional wiretapping law. The Democrats must not only hang together and stop this nonsense in its tracks by filibuster if necessary but must use the moment as a campaign commercial presenting the unlawful actions of the administration AND NSA and the danger that a fascist supreme court could condone it.
Are we getting any kind of signals that the Democratic leadership is gettin’ it’s shit together for a unified POLITICAL fight over this thing? Don’t we need to be usin’ organized blogpower to give the Democratic leadership an anal injection of testosterone with a sharp stick instead of throwin our frustration (and considerable talent and energy) against the walls of our own echo chamber?
Any indications from Fiengold, Kennedy, Reid et al that there is any kinda strategic coalition buildin goin on here to frame the debate?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION TO THOSE WHO KNOW HOW TA SHOOT!!!
And Christy, just another round of thank yous to you and your family for all of the time and energy you bring to this task. I know it takes a lot out of you sometimes, but it looks like you do at times reap some reward!
fahrender @ 99
I remember seeing it now.
Connecticut Bob @
56
Bumper sticker or debate point:
Do you intend to let Osama Bin Laden Tell You How To Vote?
Christy — heh. That particular example had crossed my mind. ;-)
For me, appearing on a panel at the first-ever Bloggers’ Caucus for our state party with preeminent Plame-ologist Marcy Wheeler was completely out of the question a year ago.
jmba — It will be challenging with kids (especially with twin toddlers, bless you!!), but it will be incredibly good for them as well as for you. My kids have learned that politicians are just plain folk, are not afraid to approach them.
Still flips me out the kinds of things that happen with kids and activism; my eight-year-old son was assigned to hand out some promotional literature at the door of the Bloggers’ Caucus, mostly to keep him occupied. When he was done he came in and sat down and played Pokemon. Later, in the convention hall, as the Governor was being introduced, my son pointed to the gentleman giving the rousing speech and now shaking the Governor’s hand. “Mom, I shook that guy’s hand in the hallway while was handing out literature.”
Apparently Detroit’s mayor Kwame Kilpatrick introduced himself to my son, shook his hand and thanked him for helping with the literature. What I would have given to catch that on camera, tall Kwame bending over to shake my kid’s hand, and my son acting like it was no big thing, just another day in democracy.
Rayne at 83 –
I agree – what firedoglake has accomplished is incredible.
Taking action is what Jane and Christy do best.
One trick that might help us all brainstorm about the next developments for progressive internet-based activism is to look at everything that has developed in the last 3-4 years, and then realize that we are due for, if anything, even more incredible developments in activism in the 3-4 years ahead.
What haven’t we done yet that we could?
How could we build on the tools that we have already developed?
Are there any innovations we can think of that might further amplify our collective voices?
In four years from now, when we look back, what will we see as the major progressive internet initiatives and developments of 2007, 2008 and 2009?
Fun to think about… And if we think of projects now, we can rapidly accelerate the process of bringing them about.
Oops… re: 96 – changed the pronoun to plural and forgot to change the verb to match. Apologies for not proofing it…
We believe that the reputation and integrity of the United States among the community of nations are not only not worthless, but possibly our greatest and most valuable assets. They are not to be squandered.
Kinda OT, but still related:
CNN: “Powell joins opponents of Bush tribunal plan”
In an earlier post, many were piling on the Dems for their, ahem, lack of vigor in opposing the Administration on this issue (among others). Frustrating, but unavoidable, is the political component in all of this.
Somehow, I get the feeling that the Dem leadership knew Powell’s statement was coming today. So, today’s headline is about Powell, Bush’s former Secretary of State, not “Dems oppose tribunals.”
Knowing what battles to fight is crucial if Progressives/Dems wish to take back power. Knowing when and how to fight them is also part of that political equation.
Sorry to use all this violent imagery, but the war is over the Constitution. Ned was one win in the battle. It looks like Bolton may be another. Warner, McCain, and Graham are puuting up another roadblock.
And now comes along Powell. Personally, I’ll take every bit of pushback, whomever it comes from.
The political maneuvering can be infuriating, yes, but I for one haven’t given up on the Dem leadership (yet!).
Christy Hardin Smith @ 88
Bill was the one who was lucky in that meeting.
Hugh @ 65
Good.
I seem to recall that within the past, oh, six and a half years or so, our current President has twice stood on the steps of the Capitol Building in Washington, D.C., and in view of the entire world swore under oath, with his right hand on the Bible, that as President of the United States of America he would “to the best of my ability preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.” I believe all the members of both houses of Congress took a similar oath as well.
Now we all have a pretty good idea of the limitations of the current President’s abilities in general, but once you have sworn such an oath, don’t you continue to remain under oath for at least as long as you hold the office? And, wouldn’t the apparent intentional attempt to circumvent the Constitution through the power of his office be considered a violation of that oath?
So, given the President’s (I’m sorry, I just can’t bring myself to use his name and the title of President at the same time) recent well documented views on the Constitionality (or lack therof) of his programs currently under discussion here, could he not be considered to have been lying under oath at the time of the innauguration, especially the most recent?
I distincly remember another President taken to task for lying under oath, but I think this situation may be even somewhat more serious than the prior one.
Now I know that the current makeup of Congress would not be amenable to initiating the impeachment process now, but perhaps we all need to remind our elected representatives of their own oaths of office, and that the Constitution is not just another “piece of paper.”
Colin Powell says today “The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight on terrorism”. Beginning to doubt? You’re out of step, and an anachronism. General.
Mr. Powell, where were your morals when you served the Bush Administration so well? You could have resigned you know. Out of principle perhaps. This man Powell is deserving of no respect. You know what they say about old soldiers fading away Mr. Powell. Fade; stage ‘left’. Mr. former Secretary of State.
Powell is positioning himself for political office. It figures.
Oh, and one other thing, just to be clear.
Thank you so much to FDL and the incredible community that’s grown up (and I mean that in every sense of the term) here over the last year.
Our political leaders will only fight when we push and prod them to do so.
We fight every single goddamn day.
1,263 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
FDLers:
HELP!!! Has anyone heard anything about an organized Democratic response to the advancement of this bill? Have there been any attempts to patch together a small “bipartisan” front to argue the constitutionality of this thing and keep it from goin’ to a vote thru procedural action?
KEEP THE FAITH AND LOOK IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION BEFORE YA SHOOT!!!
jmba @ 90
I am very humbled that a mother of TWIN 2 YR OLD BOYS is struggling with how to become more involved politically.
I had plenty enough trouble raising the 3 egregious kinder who were politely born one at a time*. They turned out ok, at some cost to the management. One does health research like her mom & is attuned to mental illness; one is involved with poverty and environmental issues; one is interested in public policy, politics, and international issues. At what cost…mental, physical, spiritual……worth it.
The rest of us have …? as obstacles? And I ask this with respect, seriously. What are our obstacles. Children, aging parents, pressure at work, difficult marriage/relationship, mental illness, old age/weakness, physical disability, fear and wondering if our feeble efforts are worth the sacrifice involved…. Discuss.
*born one at a time, but 2 weeks late. They owe me.
Redshift @ 109
You know, I believe these jokers would be talking out the other side of their mouths if the shoe was on the other foot.
They don’t seem to realise they are dealing with sociopaths.
All it would take is something to alienate them and the methods they support could well be used against them.
Not too bright, eh?
The other good reason to use “unilateral executive” instead of their term is that whenever they are challenged on “unitary executive,” they retreat into the stance that it’s just an obscure argument about who controls independent agencies, like Alito’s speech to the Federalist Society. No sane person would believe they could attract an audience for a talk about who gets to appoint FDA commissioners, but if they’re pressed, they’ll always lie and say it’s about that, not about dictatorial powers.
My strike-throughs showed up in preview, but not in the posted comment, so the letter kind of makes no sense now, and it’s too late to edit it now! So this is what it should have looked like:
Sorry – preview is usually my friend, but not that time!
When I met Clinton I became incapable of speaking. He has this effect on females….
Hope he uses his energy for the good.
Impeaching a man for sex versus allowing a man to stay in office after leading us into a war based on lies, with tens/hundreds of thousands of innocents dead. I dunno, which is worse?
I just used Spotlight for the very first time! :) Called Sen. Wyden yesterday (the answerer didn’t yet know what his response would be but it would be “to protect the Constitution and our fundamental rights”), will call Smith today.
Working vigorously on Voisin’s campaign against Walden, which along with my 3 teaching gigs at least keeps me too busy to wallow in self-pity (though I came real close yesterday).
Rita is barking that Dog Chapman has been arrested. Debbie Lafave and her interview with Matt Lauer coming up. Tom Brokaw bemoaning the wildfire near his ranch in Montana. I had just tuned in to hear news and that’s what I got for my 15 minutes at msnbc.
(maybe laura should interview lil debbie since they both have a sick penchant for adolescent boys)
not one mention of the death of democracy or the wars.
medaka you out there? you are helping me. take heart. you support me => save the life of another baby…no pressure…my duty/my life obligation.
ministry of encouragement—-we can all encourage each other. some of us are at the front with our swords but we need our troops and supply lines behind us for support.
at church they said for every missionary you need 100 people for support. i would argue an even higher #. speaking for those of us who are out there WE NEED YOU.
OT,
I want a raise.
Drink more, make more at job: study
Drinkers earn almost 15% more at work than non-
drinkers, per new study.
http://rawstory.com/
Breaking CNN…. Bomb blast in Baghdad. 2 U.S. soldiers killed and 29 others wounded….
Fresh thread, FirePups.
In which we mourn a passage.
egregious @ 112
It’s always something, but I figure, there’s somebody out there worse off than me who manages to find some time, so I’ll manage, too. And most of us won’t do one big thing all on our own, but we can do at least one small thing that, when amplified by others doing their one small thing each, contributes to a really big whole. Robert Browning said:
CtBob-attaboy not working
Great post, informed by great posters. Love this place.
And happy birthday, lotus! You are one of the real culture mavens here at FDL. As Rayne pointed out, this blog has distinguished itself not only through wonderful writing, but because it’s community. Your compassion and positivity have a lot to do with cementing those communal bonds, dear lotus.
Many happy returns.
I listened to a bit of the Diane Rehm Show panel this morning about the tribunals, and it was actually instructive. The pro-administration weasel they had on was less annoying than usual, but no less scary, and he provided a preview of the arguments we need to undercut politically before they’re made (logically their points are simple to shoot down, politically is trickier.)
The big one, of course, is the usual GOP law-n-order “these people are terrorists and war criminals, not soldiers or ordinary criminals, and they don’t deserve all these rights.” The logical answer is “if you’re going decide what they deserve the government’s declaration that they’re guilty, why bother to have a trial at all?,” but I’m not sure it’s effective politically.
A related bit of blather was “oh, no, the argument about courts martial and treatment of our soldiers doesn’t apply because we’re talking about war crimes, and that’s very different.” The obvious rejoinder is “you’re willing to trust that our soldiers will never be accused of war crimes by another country?” but that’s a response; I’m trying to come up with pre-emptions.
The best I have so far is that we have a Uniform Code of Military Justice that has been refined and tested for decades and works. The administration keeps claiming that they want swift justice, and then making up proceedings as they go along, guaranteeing that there will be delays and screwups. But I don’t know how to turn it into a sound bite.
Redshift at 126 — I personally like Digby’s argument: if it was good enough for the Nazi’s, why isn’t a public trial good enough for all those folks that the CIA and the Bush Administration have moved to Guantanimo because their intel usefulness has dried up? You want a deterrent, give them a public trial. If it was good enough for the Nazi’s after WWII, why not now? *g* It’s a good one for making people stop for a moment and think, which is one of the many reasons that I adore Digby.
Well, if intelligence people are signing up for insurance, one has to ask “what’s in it for the insurance companies”?
Someone (stockholders? policy holders? insurance commissioners?) needs to ask the insurance companies: why are you taking on liability for acts that have ALREADY OCCURRED? This is like them signing up someone for life insurance when they have already been diagnosed with terminal cancer!
I didn’t think you could get insurance to cover criminal defense. Or for civil liability for something that is found to be a crime.
Wow Rayne and Anne, your work on the letter above is exactly what I love about FDL, the mutual brainstorming and achieving is what we do best. Thank you for being so inspiring, what fine women you both are and representing an FDL Brain Trust Coalition to be proud of.
*STANDING OVATION*
Dru @ 55
I made a bumpersticker but expanded the idea of the slash through a W – I put a red W behind bars, complete with a lock. All done in Word and printed on bumper sticker paper bought at the drug store. I’ve gotten plenty of “thumbs up” to counteract the glares from “W in 04″ sporting SUV drivers!
Satan luvvs Repugs @ 11:15 am (#128)
I’m dying to know where they get the actuarial data for this sort of thing.
Just wanted to add, anyone who wants to can expand on my idea and print their own. Have at it, FDLers!
Anne @ 115
I’m SUCH a nag
anyway, I want to add;
do whatever kind of monitoring it deems appropriate; it is a “faith-based” initiative – relying on Americans to have faith that the program cannot and will not be used for matters other than national security wants upon citizens, for as we know, power corrupts, it is more likey then not power this grand would be used for activities akin to stealing, stealing our corporate sources which would adversely affect our bussiness and bottom line as well as our private secrets to which we are entitled”
ha!…I just want to accuse them of stealing and I want to use the word, not bandy about
anyway, it’s excellant of course without my input, but I think we need to be more specific and stop pussy footing with cute and legal sounding text
iowaboy @ 10:30 am (#108)
It must be something that Mary, Christy, or Peterr wrote earlier, but I was thinking the same thing. I’m about to write my senators, begging them to for once stand up and do the right thing. I think it would be a fine idea to remind them that there is a Constitution, that is what they swore to uphold and protect (not the American people or American business), and that we now are being ruled by a President who has confessed to violating two different laws that were specifically designed to regulate how the executive branch functions, and only a handful of Congressmen and Senators seem to be inclined to do anything about it.
Anne @ 10:36 am (#115) – Good point about Posse Comitatus. I hadn’t even considered that one. There are plenty of other objections, of course, so maybe one more would just be considered “piling on” in some circles ;-)
egregious @ 116
My sister-in-law, who has both her feet planted very firmly on terra firma, has met him twice and both times had exactly the same reaction that you described. I was tempted to ask if the FDL ladies were similarly struck, but alas, I’m too shy.
Via Laura Rozen:
‘U.N. inspectors investigating Iran’s nuclear program angrily complained to the Bush administration and to a Republican congressman yesterday about a recent House committee report on Iran’s capabilities, calling parts of the document “outrageous and dishonest” and offering evidence to refute its central claims.’link
And Happy Birthday to Lotus!!
Satan luvvs Repugs @ 128
I think its kind of like flood insurance, serviced by insurance companies, but financially backed by US (either capitalized or not)
windje at 134 — he’s quite a charmer, but both Jane and I managed to ask some questions, and debate points on occasion, so I suppose the answer is that I, at least, found him very charming, extremely intelligent and charismatic, but he is a person just like any other (albeit a very bright, very well connected, very astute one). I enjoyed the meeting, but I’m also more than aware of the potential, shall we say, “uses” that all sides of the meeting might have for each other — and what the risks and benefits might be of all of these.
I haven’t lived this long in life without going through the world with my eyes wide open. That said, Bill Clinton does have awfully lovely blue eyes, with a nice twinkle when he laughs at your jokes. *g*
Christy, did you get a chance to talk with Steve from the Carpetbagger Report? I like his blog a lot.
op99 at 138 — I did, and he’s great. :) He’s been kicking ass lately on his blog, and I told him so.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 139
Thanks for the insights – I think your inclusion in the cast of characters he assembled was well deserved.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 141
Good place to send the whiners, “waaahhhh, you’re not covering my to-o-o-opic.” His posts are really wide-ranging.
*xyz @ 92
Minor clarification. You need to paste more than just the address for the web site.
You must paste a blog post’s permalink.
Google found the text of that oath Congresspeople take, it’s specified in a law:
Those of you who remember my religious beliefs know that I have a problem with the “So help me God” part (for one thing, it’s ungrammatical as written :)). Nevertheless, that’s the oath.
http://www.gpo.gov/congress/ho…../hrm7.html
Not just a violation of FISA??
Hate to be a nitpicker – but you may have this backwards. Unconstitutional does NOT mean criminal. Violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, Title 50, Chapter 36, Subchapter I, 1809,has consequences far beyond a merely unconstitutional act:
robert lewis @ 12:38 pm (#146)
Let’s see, five times a gazillion … I wonder how many millenia Bush would have to serve.
Christy at 127, I’m with you and Digby, I think — is there some legal or other reason I don’t know about that would prevent the U. S. government from using the Nuremburg trials as a model for trials of terrorists?
The lies, the abuse of power, the death and destruction in the name of democracy, the sheer criminality and greed and incompetence – all of it, from the days those towers fell to this very day five years later, is simply unconscionable. The men and women of this abjectly corrupt and contemptible administration, who call themselves Americans and have the unfathomable gall to impugn the patriotism of our citizens, who’ve promoted and perpetrated this hijacking of our country, should not only resign in shame and disgrace, but face the multiple criminal charges deserving of them if our country is to reclaim its soul.