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	<title>Comments on: Our Troops Keep Taking the Hit</title>
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		<title>By: doug</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-299112</link>
		<dc:creator>doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Sep 2006 01:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Stay the Course —- Does Not Include Defeating the Enemy&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/13/world/middleeast/13military.html?_r=1&amp;oref=slogin&amp;pagewanted=print&quot;&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09.....nted=print&lt;/a&gt; — ”The senior Marine commander in Iraq said Tuesday that he had sufficient forces to carry out his mission but that the mission did not include defeating the insurgency. “For what we are trying to achieve out here I think our force levels are about right,” said Maj. Gen. Richard C. Zilmer, who defined his primary mission as training the Iraqi forces who ultimately would be responsible for security in the area.  — The Marines are fighting a war of shooting, killing and dying but they have no mission to defeat the enemy thanks to Bush’s incompetence.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stay the Course —- Does Not Include Defeating the Enemy</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/13/world/middleeast/13military.html?_r=1&amp;oref=slogin&amp;pagewanted=print">http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09&#8230;..nted=print</a> — ”The senior Marine commander in Iraq said Tuesday that he had sufficient forces to carry out his mission but that the mission did not include defeating the insurgency. “For what we are trying to achieve out here I think our force levels are about right,” said Maj. Gen. Richard C. Zilmer, who defined his primary mission as training the Iraqi forces who ultimately would be responsible for security in the area.  — The Marines are fighting a war of shooting, killing and dying but they have no mission to defeat the enemy thanks to Bush’s incompetence.</p>
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		<title>By: American Citizen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-294101</link>
		<dc:creator>American Citizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Sep 2006 19:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;The Pentagon needs to explain why it won’t buy something off-the-shelf to protect against RPG’s vs waiting until 2011.  If Trophy is ineffective against RPG-29’s, but works against RPG-7’s then Trophy should be fielded.  The reason is that the older RPG is much more common in Iraq, where the insurgents aren’t getting the latest and greatest weapons from Russia and its former satellites.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, are the villians of this story uncaring Pentagon officials and GOP politicians, a enemy-of-the-good-enoughis-the-best mentality, or something else?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ultimately, this is tactics, soldiers will still be wounded and killed in other ways until we’re done fighting in Iraq.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Pentagon needs to explain why it won’t buy something off-the-shelf to protect against RPG’s vs waiting until 2011.  If Trophy is ineffective against RPG-29’s, but works against RPG-7’s then Trophy should be fielded.  The reason is that the older RPG is much more common in Iraq, where the insurgents aren’t getting the latest and greatest weapons from Russia and its former satellites.</p>
<p>So, are the villians of this story uncaring Pentagon officials and GOP politicians, a enemy-of-the-good-enoughis-the-best mentality, or something else?</p>
<p>Ultimately, this is tactics, soldiers will still be wounded and killed in other ways until we’re done fighting in Iraq.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-293963</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-293963</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Re. Trophy and body armor&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You’re missing the point.  The real point is not sub-Rumsfeldian reliance on tech-fixes, it is:- there aren’t enough troops.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;First, Trophy.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Even the IDF won’t buy this expensive boon-doggle. (### ref)  Why?   Because the main problem with RPG’s is not technological, it’s tactical.   And the USDF are very good at understanding this.   See this for a introductory discussion of the RPG-7, how it is used and the challenges in dealing with it: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/weapon.htm&quot;&gt;http://fmso.leavenworth.army.m.....weapon.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Basic summary:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“The RPG-7 and asymmetrical future combat&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The RPG-7 will be around for a good while yet. It is a proven, cheap killer of technology which will continue to play a significant role–particularly when conventional forces are pitted against irregular forces. Russian veterans are enthusiastic about the RPG-7 and have suggested that the Russians need to develop an antipersonnel round, an incendiary round, a smoke round, an illumination round and other special-purpose rounds to give the RPG-7 more flexibility in future combat. (27) US soldiers need to be aware of the RPG-7 and how it has been deployed. The chances are, whenever a US soldier is deployed to a trouble spot, the RPG-7 will be part of the local landscape.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The take away is my interpretation (but I don’t think any militarily knowledgabe person will argue with it). “The effectiveness of any weapon lies not in its technical properties but in its deployment”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Body armour is a similar argument.  The video shows an AK47 being fired at a Vietnam era jacket from about 10m.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The video is truthful in that modern jackets will stop the fire of an AK47 at 10m but is disingenuous in suggesting that the AK47 is “new”.  It isn’t. The AK47 is a pre-Vietnam weapon - actually a WWII weapon - and was used in Vietnam.   &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The real question is how the enemy is getting to within 10m.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That is a numbers question.    Too few troops, and the enemy can get too close.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The US Army is configured for a “mongolian horde” strategy and is invincible (in all seriousness) if it uses it.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rumsfeld however wants to turn it into the German Wermacht of WWII.    But he can’t do it - it doesn’t have the equipment, it doesn’t have the doctrine, it doesn’t have the training.  He is asking an elephant to dance and he is killing its soldiers.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s the real issue.   Rumsfeld is an amatuer GROFAZ (German ironic term - Greatest Leader of all Time), playing with the lives of the US military.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re. Trophy and body armor</p>
<p>You’re missing the point.  The real point is not sub-Rumsfeldian reliance on tech-fixes, it is:- there aren’t enough troops.</p>
<p>First, Trophy.</p>
<p>Even the IDF won’t buy this expensive boon-doggle. (### ref)  Why?   Because the main problem with RPG’s is not technological, it’s tactical.   And the USDF are very good at understanding this.   See this for a introductory discussion of the RPG-7, how it is used and the challenges in dealing with it: </p>
<p><a href="http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/weapon.htm">http://fmso.leavenworth.army.m&#8230;..weapon.htm</a></p>
<p>Basic summary:</p>
<p>“The RPG-7 and asymmetrical future combat</p>
<p>The RPG-7 will be around for a good while yet. It is a proven, cheap killer of technology which will continue to play a significant role–particularly when conventional forces are pitted against irregular forces. Russian veterans are enthusiastic about the RPG-7 and have suggested that the Russians need to develop an antipersonnel round, an incendiary round, a smoke round, an illumination round and other special-purpose rounds to give the RPG-7 more flexibility in future combat. (27) US soldiers need to be aware of the RPG-7 and how it has been deployed. The chances are, whenever a US soldier is deployed to a trouble spot, the RPG-7 will be part of the local landscape.”</p>
<p>The take away is my interpretation (but I don’t think any militarily knowledgabe person will argue with it). “The effectiveness of any weapon lies not in its technical properties but in its deployment”</p>
<p>Body armour is a similar argument.  The video shows an AK47 being fired at a Vietnam era jacket from about 10m.   </p>
<p>The video is truthful in that modern jackets will stop the fire of an AK47 at 10m but is disingenuous in suggesting that the AK47 is “new”.  It isn’t. The AK47 is a pre-Vietnam weapon &#8211; actually a WWII weapon &#8211; and was used in Vietnam.   </p>
<p>The real question is how the enemy is getting to within 10m.</p>
<p>That is a numbers question.    Too few troops, and the enemy can get too close.</p>
<p>The US Army is configured for a “mongolian horde” strategy and is invincible (in all seriousness) if it uses it.  </p>
<p>Rumsfeld however wants to turn it into the German Wermacht of WWII.    But he can’t do it &#8211; it doesn’t have the equipment, it doesn’t have the doctrine, it doesn’t have the training.  He is asking an elephant to dance and he is killing its soldiers.  </p>
<p>That’s the real issue.   Rumsfeld is an amatuer GROFAZ (German ironic term &#8211; Greatest Leader of all Time), playing with the lives of the US military.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-292786</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 23:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yup. Big fat cowboy hat wearing, racist bigot. Arrogant as hell. BUT folks love George Felix Allen.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Too weird.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup. Big fat cowboy hat wearing, racist bigot. Arrogant as hell. BUT folks love George Felix Allen.</p>
<p>Too weird.</p>
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		<title>By: John Williams</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-292773</link>
		<dc:creator>John Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 23:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-292773</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You profit from the defense contractors you HAVE.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You profit from the defense contractors you HAVE.</p>
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		<title>By: ConcernedCitizen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-292729</link>
		<dc:creator>ConcernedCitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 22:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;At what point does war profiteering become morally and legally equivalent to murder?&lt;/b&gt;  These villans who would play fast and loose with the safety of United States soldiers just to make more ducats need to see the insides of prison cells!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>At what point does war profiteering become morally and legally equivalent to murder?</b>  These villans who would play fast and loose with the safety of United States soldiers just to make more ducats need to see the insides of prison cells!</p>
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		<title>By: angie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-292693</link>
		<dc:creator>angie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 22:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jan– the best of luck to you all!  I have lots of buddies working on the Webb campaign. Allen screwed this up all by his big fat racist self.  That’s one dumb State Senator, btw.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;GO Webb!&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;PS- I used to live in C’ville– what a great town.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jan– the best of luck to you all!  I have lots of buddies working on the Webb campaign. Allen screwed this up all by his big fat racist self.  That’s one dumb State Senator, btw.</p>
<p><em>GO Webb!</em></p>
<p>PS- I used to live in C’ville– what a great town.</p>
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		<title>By: sandlin</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-292688</link>
		<dc:creator>sandlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 22:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-292528&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Steve @ 49&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Speaking of body armor; does anyone know if there were Republican earmarks to DHB Industries? David Brooks, the ceo of DHB Industries got the armor contract for the Marine Corps, and delivered body armor that wouldn’t protect the wearer from a 9mm pistol round. David brooks is also known for his pump and dump stock scam with DHB stock and for the $10 million Bat-Mitzva for his daughter.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Were any congressmen bribed for the contract?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I just got back home.  Tahnk you.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-292528"><em>Steve @ 49</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Speaking of body armor; does anyone know if there were Republican earmarks to DHB Industries? David Brooks, the ceo of DHB Industries got the armor contract for the Marine Corps, and delivered body armor that wouldn’t protect the wearer from a 9mm pistol round. David brooks is also known for his pump and dump stock scam with DHB stock and for the $10 million Bat-Mitzva for his daughter.</p>
<p>Were any congressmen bribed for the contract?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I just got back home.  Tahnk you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-292680</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 22:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;As a Virginian, I say BUH BYE George. I have written a op ed and a letter to the editor about this HORRIFIC senator of ours. Got blasted in the media by the 3 Rethugs here in C’Ville.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Unfortunately, one of our DEMOCRATIC African American state senators has endorsed Allen because of Webb’s stance on affirmative action. I hope Webb isn’t screwing this up.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Virginian, I say BUH BYE George. I have written a op ed and a letter to the editor about this HORRIFIC senator of ours. Got blasted in the media by the 3 Rethugs here in C’Ville.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, one of our DEMOCRATIC African American state senators has endorsed Allen because of Webb’s stance on affirmative action. I hope Webb isn’t screwing this up.</p>
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		<title>By: HopeSpringsATurtle</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/09/13/our-troops-keep-taking-the-hit/#comment-292675</link>
		<dc:creator>HopeSpringsATurtle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Sep 2006 22:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Morris at 87:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;To which I say: Yeah, you and what army? &lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ever heard of the United States Air Force?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Morris at 87:
</p>
<blockquote><p>To which I say: Yeah, you and what army? </p></blockquote>
<p>Ever heard of the United States Air Force?</p>
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