Jeez, Bob, pick a side and stick with it…
I was going to write a longer Plame post for this slot, but it’s been overtaken by breaking events, courtesy of Robert "Rocket from the Crypt" Novak’s response to Richard Armitage’s public mea culpa, printed today in the Chicago Sun-Times:
When Richard Armitage finally acknowledged last week he was my source three years ago in revealing Valerie Plame Wilson as a CIA employee, the former deputy secretary of state’s interviews obscured what he really did. I want to set the record straight based on firsthand knowledge.
First, Armitage did not, as he now indicates, merely pass on something he had heard and that he ‘‘thought’’ might be so. Rather, he identified to me the CIA division where Mrs. Wilson worked, and said flatly that she recommended the mission to Niger by her husband, former Amb. Joseph Wilson.
Second, Armitage did not slip me this information as idle chitchat, as he now suggests. He made clear he considered it especially suited for my column.
Uhhh, but Bob, whatever happened to your spin about how "it was an offhand revelation"? Did Scooter Libby’s lawyers your conscience pay you a little visit or something?
There’s not much point in me breaking down the BS in much detail, since inaugural FDL Books author M. T. Wheeler has already given Novakula’s latest a quick, but precise autopsy at The Next Hurrah (providing a sharp demonstration of why you should toss a few drachmas into the Donation Drive on the right sidebar), with the help of her ace Plameologist commenters. See in particular Jeff’s quotations from Hubris, the new book by Michael Isikoff and David Corn, which Count Bob is apparently attempting to rebut.
I’ll also add that the business about mentioning the Counterproliferation Division is why I’ve thought former White House spokesliar Ari Fleischer might be Novak’s hidden source, since the Libby indictment not-very-subtly notes that Scooter told this information to Ari over lunch on July 7th, the day before Novak and Armitage talked. Is Novakula’s revised story intended to keep people from asking awkward questions about a source other than Armitage (whether it’s Fleischer or someone else)? Throw in your speculation in the comments below.
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Fitz! Marcy!
Fitz!! Rootz!!
fitz
emptywheel also has a post about it – see also the comments on the ew post immediately preceding the latest one, where the discussion started
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c……html#more
Christy! Jane! Clinton!
I hate these bastards
Douchebag for freedom!
Gee, for some reason I have a hard time believing Mr. Novak. I wonder why that is? He is a good Catholic but probably needs to go to confession all the time.
Swopa
I never knew that was one of the reasons you supported Ari (besides the fact that Ari has been your guy from the start).
Could you make the same argument about Libby himself (or Dick)? Or am I missing something.
Guess Jon Lovitz can play Novak in the movie…
Please change that graphic, it’s boiling the fluid in my eyeballs.
TalkLeft: The Politics of Crime @ 10
CNN’s The Situation Room has something on that, coming up…
Poor Bob may be on his way back to the grand jury.
From #10
The list of participants at the Clinton Blogfest according to Jeralyn Merritt at Talkleft were:
Peter Daou’s presence says a lot about a lot things. Looks like a Hillary outreach to the blogs via Big Dawg. I suppose she doesn’t want to get too close until she’s done triangulating.
Novak may spin all he wants to in his columns, but why would Fitz put up with this Rove/Libbey-driven nonsense? He would be calling him back in the next few days and say -are you changing your story from what you told me (and GJ) and if you are, I am going to haul you back to the GJ.
I am sure Novak knew this, but then why is he saying this? I think this is what is happening. Armitage told publicly what he told Fitz and it is different from what Novak told Fitz. By going public, he is pushing back Armitage and trying to make this into “he said-he said” draw.
Bob Novak-LSOS.
Lying sack of shit.
Oh yeah as to The Decider. Looks like his daddy is bailing him out once again.
The Loser Boy King now has Poppy’s fixer, James Baker on the “repair Iraq squad.” Proving once again that Junior is an incompetent hack and never, ever can be trusted to do anything on his own.
Help me daddy!
-GSD
emptywheel @ 9
You never asked. :) And I don’t think I ever endorsed Ari as a source for Novak before the post I linked to — I was basically agnostic on the subject.
Theoretically, yes, since they’re all part of the same chain of knowledge. (Armitage could be, too, if the CPD is mentioned in the redacted portion of the State Dept. memo.)
The logical argument for Fleischer over Libby or Dick is that (1) the latter two were plausibly motivated to delegate the leaking to keep their fingerprints off it and (2) Libby probably didn’t tell Ari about the CPD over lunch just because it was an interesting detail — he was dictating a leak.
AZ Matt @
8
If I were his priest, we’d be having a very serious talk about penitence about now – things like making amends, taking responsibility for one’s actions, etc. For that matter, if I were his priest, we’d have had that talk a couple of years ago.
Novak is such a fucking liar; that’s all he knows how to do is lie. Lie, lie, lie. No surprise here.
The Prince of Darkness strikes again. When Bush leaves who will write his stories?
OT – we soooo need a filibuster! (link is to glenn’s post on spector’s FISA bill being passed out of the judiciary committee this morning)
this time do you think the senate dems will give us the full monty? or will we (and the constitution) be disappointed?
any ideas from the wise ones (that would be everyone but me!)?
i’m ready to go to dc for a sit in if that would help….
Whatever. Didn’t Novak originally reference TWO sources? OK; so Armitage is #1. Maybe his bad recollection is that he’s got the two of them comingled in his head.
Swopa @ 18
When would Ari have talked to Novak?
emptywheel @ 25
That’s the logical argument against Ari. :) Presumably he would have squeezed it in sometime on the 7th, with the Libby lunch serving as just-in-time leak distribution.
OT, but Congressman John Murtha will campaign with Jay Fawcett this Saturday –
OT:
Frankly, it really gets my pet goat when these ‘A-List types’ (so-called) play fast and loose with visual reality in their ‘big deal photo ops’ to hoodwink we, the unwashed urchins who sustain their movable type feasts.
Coats and ties… Formal evening gowns … PHOOEY! Photoshopped trickery, base canards of the most egregious kind.
Everyone with a double-digit IQ or greater, and less than 6 digits on the end of each limb knows what I’m talking about.
Fortunately, I have come into possession of an unedited candid snap taken at one of these closed-door love-ins, so that we might really see what passes for fashion when the cyber slickers ‘let their hair down’, safe from the prying eyes of their readership.
Look if you dare
;>)
Swopa @ 26
Well, well. Perhaps the aspens are starting to turn….on each other.
Will Armitage dish up something in return? Maybe Fitzgerald or Wilson’s lawyer contacted Novak after the Armitage revelation, and he realizes they didn’t get away with it after all. Their cocky overconfident attitude is catching up with them. If Rove put him up to this latest, he must be sweating bullets watching Novak come unglued – again.
Sometimes I just get plain confused. WTF? Are they throwing Armitage under the bus? Have they started to eat their own?
Hugh @
14
If he had invited Digby and Billmon, then the terrorists wouldn’t have been able to resist attacking. Whew. Dodged a bullet there!
Anyone gonna get the the blogfest on video and post it??
:::paging C&L, C&L to the youtubes:::
darkblack @
26
GENIUS!
Pajama media, indeed!
selise @ 21
or will we (and the constitution) be disappointed?
That one.
The triangulators will tell them they don’t want to look bad on national security.
That’s PAJAMAHADEEN, thank you very much.
1,262 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Mary Mac:
“…Are they throwing Armitage under the bus? Have they started to eat their own?”
They have been playin musical chairs under the bus for a few months now and political relatives have been on their lunch menue since Fitz went ta ground and wouldn’t come out.
KEEP THE FAITH, AS LONG AS THEY EAT THEIR OWN THAT’S LESS A THE BASTARDS WE HAVE TA DEAL WITH!!
HopeSpringsATurtle @
34
Pajamofascists!
NorskeFlamethrower @ 35
COOL
Darkblack – genius.
TommyYum – we’d have still had
d r i f t g l a s s
base canards of the most egregious kind…[db]
You rang?
egregious @ 39
It’s a name that says it all, love
;>)
Clever boy…but I knew that already…
btw…where are Punaise and Eli?
darkblack – oh, you wicked thing. ;)
Does that make Jane Pajama Bin Laden?
emptywheel,
With the bouncing around of Novak’s story, how you do think this will play with Fitzgerald? Or has he given Fitz 4 or 5 different stories too?
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 42
Hi there, Hope! How are you and Dr. Turtle these days?
Punaise is taking a break to do, um, work, in the non-toobz world. And I’m not sure where Eli has been these last few days …
1,262 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
FDLers:
Am I the only one out here that believes that this is the beginnin’ of the end game for Fitz? Surely Fitz has known what Novak and Rove cooked up to pass the flag to Armitage and surely he let Armitage know that he (Armitage)was fixin’ ta be set up…so, does Fitz have somethin from Armitage that can finally pull Novakula AND Rove down in the event that Count Bob goes public (as he has done) against Armatige?
JEEZ LouEEZE, pass the fuckin’ popcorn and get Fitz’s ass out here pronto!!
KEEP THE FAITH, AND BE CAREFUL NOT TA STEP IN THE BLOOD AND BULLSHIT THAT’S POURIN’ OUTTA THESE FOLKS NOW!!
Two interesting things:
Novak says nobody from the Bush administration called him to leak, but in today’s column he says Armitage refused to see him for 2 years until all of a sudden Armitage’s office calls Novak to set up an interview, where he explicitly says it was Wilson’s wife who works in counterproliferation.
Novak also states that the Armitage interview was conducted with the understanding that it be “deep background with nothing said attributed to Armitage or even an anonymous State Department official.” Why would Novak then attribute the statements or info as being from two unnamed White House senior administration officials – if the info was supposed to be THAT secret/sensitive? Does he fail to see the irony/inconsistency of accusing Armitage of unnecessarily leaving the focus on White House administration officials as being the source, when it was actually Novak who wrote in his column that they were the source?
Hi NF…nice to see you. Been busy and lurking a bit…Dr. T is super-overworked. Its been tough around these parts.
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 44
That’s a big 707, hotstuff!
T- @
11
Thanks for the aqueous humor.
Can someone clarify this for a non-expert? Why does it have to be squeezed in on the 7th? The Novak column was on the 13th (monday) although I seem to remember that people got wind of it over the weekend (say friday maybe? 10th) What about the time between the 7th and the 10th? Sorry…?
http://www.townhall.com/column…..n_to_niger
HopeSpringsATurtle @ 49
I’ve been in busy-mostly-lurker mode myself. Wish there was something I could do to ease the burden for you and Dr. T. You’re both in my thoughts.
NLes…just the ‘howdy’ is a kind voice in the wilderness. Thanks.
Uncle Bug @
51
Now that brought tears to my eyes…
1,262 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
HopeSpringsATurtle:
Bless you and Dr. Turtle…now please clear up this messy pissin’ contest that’s started. Does this look like the wheels are comin’ off in public to you?
Where do ya think Fitz is right now in all a this?
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LEAVE YOUR SEAT UNTIL THE RIDE HAS COME TO A COMPLETE STOP!!!
My tray table is in the upright and locked position. My seatbelt is fastened and I know its gonna be a bumpy ride. I am onboard.
HSAT @ 2:35 pm and Leslie @ 2:40 pm
“btw…where are Punaise and Eli?”
“Punaise is taking a break to do, um, work, in the non-toobz world. And I’m not sure where Eli has been these last few days …”
Now that football season has arrived, have they “pun-ted?” (g)
Oh yeah, darkblack, may be yer ver’ bes’ yet. Hit’s BigDawg’s capn’s cap & pipe and Jane’s teddybear a-swaying me . . . you devil in them details, you.
ks @ 48
Wonder what Duberstein says? Armitage says KD set it all up – interesting to hear what HE thought he was setting up. No one seems to be asking him any questions though.
Eli’s been around.
NORSKE–I really appreciate what you said on the last thread about upping your participation for elections. More time, more money, more energy. It’s inspiring!!
Mary @
33
mary, if we do nothing i fear you are correct. but, isn’t there something we could do? the standard stuff i’ve been doing just isn’t enough… time to think outside the box. [disclaimer - while i am willing to take some personal risk, i will not risk causing harm to another]
what would ghandi do?
Norske, I be loving your scenario … eating wif a spoon!
Hope, NefLes speaks for me! The flowah was fixin’ to gather up a posse to come check on you.
Now all we gotta find out is where’s our li’l dog?
Hey Mary, can YOU answer my question re: the Swopa “squeezed into the 7th” thing?
And, it occurs to me to say this, as EW might be still reading- imo you would be a great person to read the chapters as they are being churned out!!!!
emptywheel @ 29
An item against Dick: Per Tweety Matthews and Woodward, it takes a lot of hoop-jumping before you get to talk to Big Dick. (Which is why I think it’s especially implausible that he called Pincus.)
An item against Libby: Whose press contacts have been more scrutinized and pawed over by Fitzgerald? It’s very hard to imagine that Fitz would have 100% missed a conversation between Libby and Novak, of all people.
Valley Girl @ 54
Swopa can answer this. :-)
Fleischer was on Air Force One traveling to Africa with Prez. Shrub, Colin Powell, Condi Rice, and Andy Card from the evening of July 7th through July 13th. Besides, we’re speculating about a source who told him about Wilson’s wife (and whatever other juicy details) before he talked to Armitage on the 8th.
The notion that Novak’s column was accessible via his syndication wire service on the 11th (Friday) was floated by Susan Schmidt a couple of years ago, but I believe that it was specifically refuted earlier this year.
And, it occurs to me to say this, as EW might be still reading- imo you would be a great person to read the chapters as they are being churned out!!!!
Excellent idea, VG — I’d add Christy and lhp to the committee, though — plenty work for all three.
Swopa- oops, I think I misunderstood which “he” you were referring to in “That’s the logical argument against Ari. :) Presumably he would have squeezed it in sometime on the 7th, with the Libby lunch serving as just-in-time leak distribution.” Now that I reread, I don’t know which he.
See, this is what happens when amateurs get in on the conversation. But, THAT BOOK is going to have to reach amateurs… so this is MY excuse.
Valley Girl @ 69
The “he” would be Ari, but really Novak as well since it refers to when the two could have talked.
tommy yum @
32
Da-yum, Darkblack, nobody’s supposed to *know* we all post in our PJ’s. And bunny slippers.
VG – I’m a horrible time line person. What was getting squeezed in as having to happen on the 7th?
I saw this in the post:
…since the Libby indictment not-very-subtly notes that Scooter told this information to Ari over lunch on July 7th, the day before Novak and Armitage talked
that refers to the 7th, but it’s the only thing?
[btw - I’m still HUGE GRATEFUL for whatever you did to fix my laptop posting]
oops again, Swopa. Okay, now I understand about the 7th. “AF1″ occurred to me, but I didn’t check the dates. Sorry. Anyway, even if the column was available somewhat earlier, it looks like Ari would have had to talk to Novak via AF1 (unlikely) unless the conversation was squeezed in earlier, as you say.
CNN.com has this up:
Court may reinstate conspiracy charge against DeLay
POSTED: 4:29 p.m. EDT, September 13, 2006
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — The state’s highest criminal appeals court said Wednesday it would consider reinstating a conspiracy charge against former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, further delaying his felony money laundering trial.
egregious @ 61
Has he, now. ;)
You won’t believe what Kerry Sanders is reporting on NBC —
190 Taliban shown on Predator photo in formation at a funeral. Permission to fire withheld b/c it was in a cemetery. Now Jim Mik[etc., etc.] follows up with protests from the Pentagon that “the commanders on the ground made the wrong call.”
We’ll just hope that ABC’s Sun/Mon movie-viewers chose NBC’s evening news tonight. Don’t be holding your breath, though.
New NBC/WSJ Poll
Bush JAR 42%
(bump attributed to lower gas prices – Tim Russert)
Swopa- I always appreciate your answering my questions!
Mary- it was re: the possibility of a conversation between Ari and Novak on the 7th (as in “was Ari first source?”
Mary- my pleasure re: the laptop postings. Once we could see what went into spam (with new WP version), it started looking like a whole slew of people were having their comments trashed- which I had not been aware of before. The fact that you had mentioned previously (pre new WP) that you could post from one computer and not the other actually HELPED ME! It was a great clue as to what was going on. (In the old version of WP it wasn’t possible to see comments that were going into spam/ delete, so the solution never would have occurred to me.)
Let’s just hope that the *next* WP upgrade doesn’t undo progress.
Let’s just hope that the *next* WP upgrade doesn’t undo progress.
VG, all of a certain flowah’s hopes rest on the next WP upgrade undoing one particular bit of regress . . . Maybe you kindly mods join me in that?
Wayyyyyy ot,but too predictable not to post.
Froomkin;
Bush and the Third Awakening
Peter Baker of The Washington Post spots a fascinating story amid the published excerpts from a closed-door session President Bush held with conservative journalists yesterday. The excerpts were published on the National Review’s blog .
snip
Annnnnnd the kicker.
Hart wrote that the “Third Awakening of Evangelicalism believes all sorts of bizarre things, such as the imminent end of the world, the second coming of Christ, the sudden elevation of the just to heaven and the final struggle of Good versus Evil in Jerusalem: Armageddon. We thus have the immense popularity of the Left Behind series of novels by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.”
snip
Bush to base…Bush to base… come in base.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00879.html
Howzat go, Busted? “Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy,” as I recall? (Little rusty on my liturgy now, but willing to try mos’ anything at this point.)
Bustednuckles @ 78
add to that the Pope’s statements about Islam and Mohammed and the fact that the wapoo hired Gerson (read more at the link) and we got us a trifecta.
http://www.editorandpublisher……1003120055
angie,
Great, just great.
Axis of evil indeed.
Raw Story;
Helen Thomas: Bush’s ‘lame’ justification for Iraq war: Soon..
http://rawstory.com/
You go lady.
CARVILLE: He’s got to show these right-ingers that he’s got backbone. Show them you’re tough.
NOVAK: Well, I think that’s bullshit. And I hate that. Just let it go.
(Novak leaves set.)
Poor Bobby, still trying to prove his props.
I wrote to Dan about these issues today, Busted. I guess my letter was too much of a rant to get published! :0
I usually strike a more moderate tone, today– not so much.
Lotus (75), it’s Clinton’s fault those 190 Taliban IN CLOSE FORMATION were not taken out. Gawd, why didn’t those people in charge of the Predator not give the command for it to unload on THE ENEMY. It sure looks like the killers were in the most favorable position possible for a deadly strike.
Russert’s blurb on Williams’ show about the NBC/WSJ poll made me queasy. Gas prices are the big factor in Bush’s approval rating going up 3%? With everything else he touches going down? Russert seemed to be hoping in eight weeks the unfavorable Bush numbers will turn favorable. And if lower gas prices can do it, this country has undeniably lost its soul.
Mark the date…. on sale October 30th
from Publisher’s Weekly,
Inside Bush’s White House: The Second Term by Bob Woodward by S&S, 750,000 copies…
Any bombshells from Booby?
Jack
The Bay State Librul @ 87
Nope, but lots of tongue just in time for week-before-election WaPo excerpts. . .
The Bay State Librul @ 87
Immediately before the election.
lotus @ 59
You should have seen the drycleaning bill for that bash
;>)
HotFlash @ 70
Let those who would oppose us soil their two-button gabardines in fear of a work ethic that is too relentless to turn itself out foppishly…
;>)
On PBS, Lehrer asks Harry Reid “what a vote for a Dem means.” Harry talks for two minutes and never mentions the shredding of the Constitution.
In light of all of this “new” weird information, I don’t care what anyone thinks, I believe Jason Leopold was onto something very big with Rove and caught it before it broke wide open. I think his story probably hurt some parts of the investigation, but in hindsight something was going on and when he reported it the powers that be went into spin mode.
does anyone think Fitzgerald will comment on the case? do you think that he would just let the investigation shut down without telling anyone? I know he doesn’t have to put out a report but would he just let this case disappear?
lotus @ 91
I know ;( Any FDL’er could have done better with 10 seconds.
angie @ 93
Pretty much why I’m underenthused at voting for any of them.
Any FDL’er could have done better with 10 seconds.
Sure could. Any given one of us. That’s why I think Harry’s natural level is Whip — which he’s exceeded at the worst possible time.
Swopa @ 67
I generally agree about Dick, especially wrt Pincus (except for the AF2 conversation–the chances are really high the person was on AF2, and Libby effectively shielded this person by implying he had talked to Kessler, so…after that, though I think Hadley is likely).
But as to Libby–Libby’s post-July 7 conversations have been closely scrutinized. We do know Fitz has discovered a July 2 conversation of note fairly recently. We know someone (almost certainly Libby) gave Novak the FF Townsend smear not long before or after the Plame leak (before July 9, at the latest, if we’re to believe Rove’s alibi for talking to Novak), and we know Fitz didn’t, at first, subpoena a pre-July 7 conversation with Judy.
In other words, it is very likely Libby spoke to Novak (to leak the FFT smear), it is very likely a conversation pre-July 7 could escape close notice (and even if Fitz did ask about it, the FFT story would provdie an alibi), and we know Libby was interested in leaking this as early as June 23.
lotus – the incomparable Laura Rozen has a piece upon Rockefeller and the illegal wiretaps.
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/004883.html
Thanks for the tip/link, Mary.
did anyone read the buzzflash interview of Joe Wilson posted yesterday? it’s a very good interview. Wilson makes some very good points. Here’s the link http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/interviews/033
Tom Noe, wearing a yellow tie to his sentencing hearing, says he felt pressure from the Bush-Cheney campaign
Not just a mere measly semantic difference in Laura’s reporting, is it, Mary?
“I can say the program must continue” and “There is strict oversight in place . . . now including the full congressional intelligence committees” …
– NSA “talking points” for passing out like communion wafers by Sen. Roberts
“For the past six months, I have been requesting without success specific details about the program, including: how many terrorists have been identified; how many arrested; how many convicted; and how many terrorists have been deported or killed as a direct result of information obtained through the warrantless wiretapping program.
“I can assure you, not one person in Congress has the answers to these and many other fundamental questions”
– Sen. Rockefeller, not feeling hungry just now, thank you, Pat.
With what Robert Novak now trying to smear Richard Armitage, it looks like “somebody is running scared”. This leak is sure be deeper than Richard Armitage. Karl Rove did talk to Matthew Cooper, and Robert Novak. And not forget his email to Stephen Hadley too. The Intelligence Memorandum which was written by Carl Ford at the request of Lewis Libby.
yes, novak isn’t “flipping”, he’s protecting his other sources
Swopa- I hope you have noted Mary’s insights as to yellow ties. This is now part of FDL lore. Briefly, a yellow tie indicates lies, lies, and more lies. I am sure she could explain better than I, should you wish to persue the topic. But, if you have thought of wearing a tie recently, avoid yellow.
Did Fitz ever manage to get hold of the AF1 and AF2 phone logs for that trip to Africa?
Is anybody telling the truth? I have my doubts.
The “smoking gun” for all of the knowledge doesn’t contain all of the knowledge.
The June 10, 2002 State Department memo that was constructed from notes from a CIA meeting, apparently also attended by Dick Cheney, was distributed to everybody in WHIG — Rove, Powell, Armitage, Libby, Hadley, etc.
Amritage says he was not aware that Valerie Wilson was undercover yet the memo was stamped “S”ecret in the paragraph disclose her name. Armitage does have a leg to stand on when he at first didn’t realize he was Novak’s source because that memo identified her as Valerie Wilson, wife of Amb. Joseph Wilson.
That letter floated for roughly 3 weeks before the first contacts with reporters has been reported. It is clearly possible that there are unknown contacts.
The CIA is known to have objected to certain statements in that memo.
How did Novak know to ask the CIA to confirm employment for Valerie Plame when Armitage gave him the name Valerie Wilson. That wasn’t the only thing Novak wrote about that was not contained in the State Department memo. Armitage could not be the primary source any of the data if you believe that the memo was the only source Armitage had available. Did that come from Rove or was there a third, unidentified source for Novak?
This puzzle still has many missing pieces.
whatever happened to fitz subpoenaing (sp?) hard-drives and such that the daily news reported?
lotus @ 91
Harry said that the Senate Judiciary Committee reported out a BiPartisan billon Wiretapping,
That putz spoke in FAVOR it. Makes me sick
Mary — or anybody — that last handy-dandy “talking point” of NSA’s reads:
The FISA should be amended so that it is technology neutral. This would return it to its original purpose of focusing FISA privacy protections on Americans in the United States. It would greatly improve the FISA process and relieve the massive amounts of resources currently being consumed.
Okay:
(a) What does technology neutral mean (or imply)?
(b) Would you agree that FISA’s original purpose [was] focusing FISA privacy protections on Americans in the United States? Hah?
(c) What does (a) have to do with (b)?
(d) Doesn’t It would greatly improve the FISA process and relieve the massive amounts of resources currently being consumed basically say to the Good Senators, “Yo! Yonna wake up here and stop us before we waste ourselves down to nubs and flitters? Er whut?”
lindsay @ 92
He is running a criminal prosecution, not a media circus
Ah, lhp! Just the grrrl I was looking for to share my Q at 109 with Mary!
looseheadprop @ 108
me too.
oh yeah Jim, buddy, we are all on the same page- totally non partisan!
reeallly, mr. softee???
http://gothamgazette.com/graphics/mr_softee.jpg
What a striking likeness there, angie!
looseheadprop @ 108
point well taken
I am gonna buy a pitchfork tomorrow lotus– if they still sell ‘em! I am tired to death of the sweet smarm stuff they are dishing out.
I am ready to raise a barn or do something productive!
1,262 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and…
OK, anybody out there wanna tell me if Fitz is gunna pull Count Novakula back inta the grand jury and hit ‘im with some serious purgery-obstruction-conspiracy juice? Please, someone try and give me an understandable theory on where Fitz is in an on-going investigation…is there one??!!
KEEP THE FAITH ESPECIALLY IF YA DON’T KNOW NUTHIN’!!!
Pick up a sharpening steel too, angie, if you don’t awready own one.
OT: This is an update on the Military Commissions Act of 2006 (aka the Cruel Treatment and Torture Authorization Act).
So far, Marty Lederman seems to be the legalist to follow on this topic:
* “Here’s the Administration’s Cruel Treatment and Torture Authorization Act”
By Marty Lederman (September 06, 2006)
http://balkin.blogspot.com/200…..tment.html
* “The CIA’s ‘Alternative Set of P[19] “Here’s the Administration’s Cruel Treatment and Torture Authorization Act”
By Marty Lederman (September 06, 2006)
http://balkin.blogspot.com/200…..tment.html
And R. Jeffrey Smith at WaPo is a journalist who has been all over this story for more than a month, and he gets it, i.e., he doesn’t get distracted by the sideshows.
Looseheadprop is on top of it, and Christy instinctively knows what’s going on:
The LA Times confirmed Christy’s instinctive wisdom via this from an article this morning:
Three stooges indeed. These fools veritably leap onto the slippery slope, and invite the nation to join them. Poor Mr. Interrogator, he was just following orders. Poor Mr. President, he was just giving orders. Poor Mr. Attorney General, he was just offering his best professional judgement. In the end we’re all to blame. Blame enough to go around. Boo hoo!
So far as the civilized world is concerned, this was all settled at Nuremberg, sixty years ago.
Just attempted to watch KO. He was reporting on the days congressional debate on a 9-11 cheerleading bill. The Republicans insisted it also should support the passing of the patriot act. I swear it’s like psychological warfare and it appears to be working. They are also playing the “we haven’t been attacked again” mantra an awful lot. That’s just wrong and stupid.
Norske, have I ever tole you how glad I am you’re on OUR side? Thought so. Just wanted to be sure . . .
Lotus, you’re right– mebbe I gotta pick up some more provisions at the hardware store when they open……
then off for some victuals and some hardy copies of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution so they can weather the storm we are gonna create by passin’ them around so America wakes up and learns how to read again!
DHS, Department of Happy Shit
As difficult as it can be to interpret folks on a blog. I always read Norske with a special voice/accent in my head and me2me often reads like one who is short of breath (exasperated). lol
Good plan, ange. This afternoon, I got so exercised that all I could do was slam off the computer and go visit the neighborhood victualler in hopes of changing my mind’s subject. Didn’t work worth a hoot. I hate to think what a thundercloud I looked on their surveillance cam . . .
NorskeFlamethrower @ 115
Christy has some sources that tell her there is still GJ activity from Team Fitz. All I have heard indicates to me that many cards will be laid on the table at trial. I am focused on the trial
Interesting how all-caps sound different in the “mouths” of variously-handled folks ’round here, innit, Eureka?
lotus @ 110
I’m confused. What question?
lhp, hit F5 if you haven’t lately, then check out what magically appears at 109, please ma’am.
Wigwam @ 117
Remember Dog day Afternoon? Attica, Attica, Attica?
Nuremnburg, Nuremburg, Nuremburg!
Mod, could you please free up my 124, 126, and — especially for lhp — my 128? Thanks!
The FISA should be amended so that it is technology neutral. This would return it to its original purpose of focusing FISA privacy protections on Americans in the United States. It would greatly improve the FISA process and relieve the massive amounts of resources currently being consumed.
I have no idea lotus. Here’s how it strikes me though.
They want to be able to utilize any kind of technology (for example, data mining) and they want all of technology utilization to have the same authorizations process – which means linking to the lowest standard. So, what you can do for data mining you can do for a 6 mos wiretap of anything/everything.
But I have no idea. It also makes no sense to say, It would greatly improve the FISA process and relieve the massive amounts of resources currently being consumed and yet, to also say that hey, we’re only listening when al-Qaeda’s calling. What is consuming those “massive amounts of resources” in a program that is NOT OPERATING UNDER FISA and is only an “IF AL-QAEDA IS CALLING” targeted program?
Harman and Rockefeller who have had the NSA briefing, and DiFi too – all say that the program can be done withing FISA, with the beef up of funding/resources that Harman proposes.
lotus @
122
Did the fake attackers launch a cyber-blitzkrieg on the Lieberman website?
-GSD
1,262 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..
looseheadprop:
Thanx, but is it possible that in the perps’ scamble ta color public opinion and effect the election atmospherics someone will say or do something that advances the ball for Fitz? I’m afraid that, in the short term, Novak et al’s spin is gunna soften the fall for the fascists in November…will the trial be worth the wait, is Fitz locked into the choreopgraphy here in that he can’t act until the bad guys respond to the trial with a pardon or somethin else?
KEEP THE FAITH … FOR ME TOO!!
Shredding the Bill of Rights would clearly give the United States an advantage when it comes to tracking Al Qaeda.
-GSD
126 lotus WHY YES it is.
‘Nother words, Mary:
Gonzalesian/Addingtonian Gobbledygook.
Very good. I still understand English, all of today’s evidence notwithstanding.
Thank you!
HEH, Eureka!
GSD @ 134
People around the world are picking up pieces of our Bill of Rights, et al and are wondering ‘what the hell were they thinking– they had everything and every opportunity?’
“Thanks so much for the head start American people, we’ll take better care of it and you can ask for these documents back anytime! ta-ta!!!”
Dammit, angie, hard as it’s been, I’ve been able to hold off bawling all day until just now.
The Bill of Rights will be classified under the secure liberties act.
New thread– Bill and the ladies of the lake!
looseheadprop @
129
I never thought that in my lifetime I would be arguing that this nation “under God” doesn’t commit war crimes. Or that “just following orders” doesn’t cut it.
What the hell has this nation come to? Who are these freaks who are running the show?
Don’t call it the Military Commissions Act; call it the Enabling Act.
Either we are part of the community of civilized nations, or we’re not. And in the community of civilized nations, “just following orders” doesn’t cut it.
Poor pathetic losers-
Who was Armitage’s source is a brilliant question and one I would hope Fitzpatrick already knows. Someone should ask Mr. Armitage.
It looks to me like a bunch of insiders, Cheney, Libby, Rove and probably others(the cabal of nitwits) plotted to discredit Wilson by alleging his wife sent him to Niger. (Incidentally, one has to wonder how that information discredits the content of Mr. Wilsons’ messge. Does who sent Mr. Wilson have any bearing on what he discovered? Not only was the cabal foolish in outing a CIA agent, they did it for a reason that doesn’t make any sense.)
Whether the cabal knew Ms. Plame was an agent or not is an open issue, although it looks like Fitzgerald doesn’t have sufficient information to prove it. Nevertheless, the cabal should have known.
They discredited Mr. Wilson in two ways. The cabal spoke directly with reporters. Examples include Libby with Miller and Rove with Cooper. In addition, it is my guess that they also told loud mouths within the Administration, like Armitage, who, not appreciating the significance of Ms. Plame’s position, also spoke to reporters like Novak. And then, finally, the cabal contacted reporters to confirm the stories they had initiated.
It is all really sorted and isn’t the kind of things the America I believe in stands for.
At the end of the day, the cabal irresponsibly and recklessly attacked Mr. Wilson during which they outed a CIA agent. Someone did something wrong and it wasn’t Ms. Plame. Unfortunately, it is likely she will be the only one to pay for the indisgressions.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 140
That’s brilliant, Eureka Springs!
I know! Instead of trying to change the law to legitimize criminal and inhumane behavior, why don’t we try CEASING the criminal and inhumane behavior!
Now if only we had some sort of overarching guidelines to help us…
[Constitution, Geneva Conventions]
OT: – news flash – genuine good person and real liberal ex-Governor Ann Richards died tonight in Austin. She’d been fighting cancer for a few years. I’m gonna miss her.
Here’s a link to a pretty good obit on Gov. Richards:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s…..TE=DEFAULT
And a correction – the article says she was diagnosed in March of this year.
My favorite of the quotes: “I didn’t want my tombstone to say ’she kept a clean house.’” She preferred “she opened government to everyone.”
RIP.
Didn’t a story come out a few months ago about Novacula agreeing to provide cover for Rove in the Plame investigation before Rove met with the FBI in the fall of 2003? If so, then Novacula is willing to lie in order to derail Fitz’s investigation into the complicity of others in the White House who conspired with Libby to out Plame. Since the best way to protect Libby’s co-conspirators (i.e., Cheney, Rove, Hadley, and others, probably including King George and every member of the White House Iraq Group) is to protect Libby and thereby reduce, if not eliminate, his incentive to flip and become a prosecution witness, I believe it’s safe to assume that the pathetic over-the-hill Novacula has joined the conspiracy, assuming that he hasn’t been a member since he published his article outing Plame.
I believe that Novak’s unnamed source is George Bush and the conspiracy’s gameplan is to dump on Armitage. Armitage won’t like that so I assume that it’s only a matter of time before he accuses Novacula saying, “Liar, liar, pants on fire,” or LLPOF.
Seems like this might be a good time for the Wilsons to take Armitage’s deposition. He won’t be able to take the Fifth since Fitz isn’t going to prosecute him. Novacula, on the other hand, definitely should because he’s inserted himself into a deadly serious game that is way over his head and he’s likely to wind up getting indicted, if he keeps it up.
On second thought, keep up the good work Novacula. Go ahead and git ‘er done!
The next time he flips, let’s hope it’s to the scrap heap of history. There is no other place for this sycophantic steaming pile of rubble.
Mr. Armitage was a member of PNAC and signed their 1998 letter to Clinton advocating the overthrow of Saddam. He was appointed to the State Dept. by Bush and Cheney (Cheney was also a member of PNAC). To claim that Armitage was no political gunslinger is a flat out lie.
THE OUTING OF PLAME WAS TWO FOLD. BUT SHE WAS IN THE CIA TRACKING NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION TO IRAN. SO. TWO BIRDS, ONE STONE. THEY CAN NOW CLAIM, WITH OUT CERTAIN DENIAL, THAT IRAN IS — NUMBER OF WEEKS AWAY FROM BECOMING A NUCLEAR POWER. DON’T YOU THINK THAT FITS THE REASON FOR THE OUTING? // GO FITZ