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(Photo by Larry Towell/Magnum via the Globe and Mail.)
To all of the heroes, past and present, and all of those we have lost.
A reader sent me a note after my Pull Up a Chair thread Saturday morning, and I thought that a portion of it really cut to the heart of what 9/11 meant to a whole lot of folks. I asked for permission to share a bit with all of you, and here it is:
About 10 feet from the door there was this awful smell of burning which turned out to be the stench from that day now covering her husband. He sat slumped on the floor in the middle of the kitchen. My other neighbors kids call him the bear mostly because he is so damn hairy but he is six foot three and weighs in at about two eighty and looks like the typical huge muscular firefighter only bigger and here he sits covered in ash and soot still in his protective clothing with tears streaking his face. The odd thing was he was blubbering like a baby without actually, physically blubbering. Tears were just streaming out of his eyes as he sat there. We tried desperately to engage him and after a few minutes he seemed to notice us finally and could only repeat ‘there’s nothing, there’s nothing, there’s nothing left.’ After several hours we had managed to get his clothes off and clean him up a bit but we couldn’t get him to take anything but water. He was still of course terribly distraught and we were discussing what we could do when he turned to me and repeated ‘There is nothing left. Not a lamp not a desk not a chair, thousands of offices and not one fucking chair left anywhere, how the fuck am I going to find my brothers?’
I am telling you this because the first night that the lights were turned on at the WTC he and I went up on the roof of our building to look. As I took that photo I sent you yesterday he said to me " It looks like those lights are the path to heaven, I think it will be alright in the end".
This is the photo taken that night. May it bring you some measure of peace as it did for our reader’s friend, or at least a moment to reflect on where we were, where we are, and where you hope that we will go.
If you weren’t around for Saturday’s remembrances, do take a read back through the Pull Up a Chair thread. So many of our readers in NYC, in DC, all over the country, were connected to the events of 9/11 in some way — and the comments section of that post is quite a read.
This is one of those times when words just fail me.
(CNN is running live replay of their 9/11 coverage via their online Pipeline feature today. I know this is not something that everyone wants to watch, but on the off chance that some of you might be interested, I wanted to give everyone a heads up that it is available.)
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mornin’ christy
I second that emotion.
another zero to notch into the keyboard. Doesn’t feel like a day for celebrating though.
the picture of the spotlights just made me weep. thanks for a truthful reminder of the day. blessings to all of us still trying to make it right.
“This is one of those times when words just fail me.” – hope you don’t mind my borrowing your words.
Difficult, painful day.
I often find myself hoping I’ll be distracted, thinking about something else at 8:46, it’s not going to work today…
I think everyone remembers where they were and what they were doing when the attacks occurred. I remember frantically trying to reach my parents, they live inside the beltway) as my mom was in DC (at the Watergate). Also trying to contact my best friend from high school who lived about a half mile from the pentagon — all lines were busy.
The response to so much and destruction was revenge and more killing and destruction.
Humans, including Amwericans have leaned nothing from history. They wil continue to kill and be violent until they have destroyed all of god’s green earth.
Christy, wonderful post, but dang it you made me start crying again. Glad I moved the calligraphy.
Your thoughts and photos got me to thinking of a song — Turn, turn, turn
To everything (turn, turn, turn)
There is a season (turn, turn, turn)
And a time for every purpose, under heaven
A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep
(The Byrds) written by Pete Seeger
Repost from bottom of late night thread:
366looseheadprop says
September 11th, 2006 at 5:45 am*
Good Morning all,
I would like to apologize for my choice of language last night. I need to learn to stay out of the toobz when I am angry.
Path to 9-11 made me furious. I should have kept to myself with all that hostility.
I do want to clarify a couple things i said in the last thread because I think I said them inartfully.
I do not disapprove of people who are not from NY coming to see Ground Zero. I don’t disapprove of that at all. This was a national tragedy and I do equate it with Pearl Harbor. Moreover, the entire purpose of building the proposed memeorial, like the memorial at Pearl Harbor, is to create a place for people from all over the world to come to “connect”.
I’m fine with that. What I am not fine with, are these dreadful parisites hawking Tee shirts and pictures and those god awful commemorative coins made from silver in the vaults under the WTC. Have you seen those commercials?
The one and only time I went to Ground Zero, there were these tourists, bargaining with a vendor of really really exploitive souveniers and taking pictures, smiling and clowning in front of the hole.
When they asked me to use their camera to photograph them –smiling and waving in front of a mass grave– is when I lost is and began to cry.
Someone said they made the time to visit Dachua while on a business trip. I sincerly doubt there are any pictures of that commentor exhibitng hilarity at such a somber site.
People coming to NYC and stopping by Ground Zero to say a prayer or contemplate the wound to our collective American– no, collective human– psyche, is just fine.
Souvenier shoppers, grief tourists, exploitors of any kind–I’m sorry, trigger a whole lotta words my mommy doesn’t like me to use.
Bush exploited a tragedy that happened to NY and by using this rallying cry that it happed to all the US, used it, used our personal grief as a shield and a sword to do more harm to this country than Osama ever could.
So, I get why Steve does not like it when someone who was not in harm’s way, who did not lose a loved one tries to appropriate to themselves the personal grief of New Yorkers.
That’s what Bush did to us.
He stole our pain and wrapped himself up in it and used our loss to justify his actions.
Then he cut our Homeland Security funding by 40% to give out political pork to red states.
Good morning to you, Christy.
Among all the others, I’m thinking of your two lost friends today, and now also specifically of that mindblown firefighter you and our littermate shared with us. As much as we’ve seen, as closely as we’ve paid attention, we can’t begin to share his agony — and so many others’.
Blessings and peace to them.
DefJef, please get some help before your rage finishes eating you alive.
Oh, and can I add that the moderators to the Steve Gillaird thread deserve a medal?
That was a very raw evening and they stuck it out through some really tough stuff, so
THANK YOU *ilson, Valley Girl, Pach and whoever else was on Mod duty.
What you do, makes the place a haven
Beautiful pictures Redd.
Morning pretty flower. Did I hear somebody say Florida had an earthquake? What happened?
Lotus,
I have no rage and thanks for your concern.
morning all – only have a minute…
seems like a good day to move forward with determination and courage in spite of our administration’s leadership…
I’m watching the ceremonies from NYC where names of the dead are being read. What impresses me mightily are the numerous “foreign-sounding names” so different from the Christy Hardins and Wilson Allens . . . The Jim Sensenbrenners, Tom Tancredos and Pat Buchanans should be listening carefully too…
OT: The White House has launched a desperate attempt to retroactively legalize war crimes going back to 9/11/01. It’s in the last ten pages of the 86-page bill called entitled the “Military Commissions Act of 2006.” [1] The GOP intend to push a vote in the House on Monday 9/18 and in the Senate by the end of the month, though some GOP senators want to bypass committees and vote next week. [2] This can only be stopped by a filibuster, which requires prompt pressure on key Democratic senators.
[1] “Military Commissions Act of 2006″
By the George W. Bush (06 September 2006)
http://www.law.georgetown.edu/…..ssions.pdf
[2] “Top Military Lawyers Dislike Tribunal Plan”
By Richard Simon, LA Times (08 September 2006)
http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..crosspromo
Right you are, OC.
Poll: More Americans blame Bush for 9/11
POSTED: 8:26 a.m. EDT, September 11, 2006
WASHINGTON (CNN) — The percentage of Americans who blame the Bush administration for the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington has risen from almost a third to almost half over the past four years, a CNN poll released Monday found.
Asked whether they blame the Bush administration for the attacks, 45 percent said either a “great deal” or a “moderate amount,” up from 32 percent in a June 2002 CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITI…..index.html
the only thing I ever want to hear from dubya ever again is, “I’m sorry. I f*cked up badly and I’m sorry.”
then he can go quietly back to Crawford while the rest of us sort this out…
Annon Liberal sees PT911 from a whole new perspective! http://www.anonymousliberal.com/
Wigwam, today I’ll be back on the phone to my wretched Sen. Bill Nelson, who’s on the Armed Service Committee and doing little to no good there.
Old Coast – all I want to hear is goodbye.
Mary @ 23
…but just before the goodbye – “you’re fired rummy, cheney, condi, bolty, cherty, etc…”
Mary @ 23
I’m holding out for a “Yes, Your Honour” in The Hague. (Though by that point, he’ll probably be past language.)
I don’t even want to hear good-bye, I just want to wake up one morning and have the whole world changed again. And then we can all get out with our brooms and barrels and sweep up all the “stuff” left over from almost 6 years of disastrous “leadership”.
Morning, lhp! No apology required (though you might avoid yo’ mammy’s soapdish for a few days — *g*).
There was a 6.0 earthquake out mid-Gulf yesterday morning, but I didn’t feel a thing.
Looseheadprop, I avoided reading last night’s thread, but your comment here got me to take a look at your comments in it, and you hit all the right notes. You really did. I grew up in NJ, but NY’s my home town. Thank you.
And your story about that family from Missouri… Well, I just recounted it to my husband and started sobbing.
Morning Christy,
I just can’t cry about it anymore.
After 9/11 I was in a daze for a month, literally. Crying, being pissed, watching CNN 24/7. We volunteered where we could, wishing (praying) there was more we could do. We counted the dead. Gilliard spoke about what it was like living here – for months, whenever you spoke to someone, it was “are you okay” – meaning did you lose anyone close. Of course, everyone knew someone. We were spared, losing no family members.
It was unbearably hard on my family, and I split with my wife in late October. (we of course had other problems, but the trauma was a major factor. The divorce rate after 9/11 spiked everywhere from what I understand.)
A large percentage of my client base was Wall St. based, and after all that went on, I just didnt want to work. It took me over a year to get back to doing anything substantial.
I don’t know I’m telling you all this, I guess just so you (and all of you) can know me a little better. And maybe cause I feel a little guilty that I can’t cry anymore. I just can’t. That place was just too dark, too deep.
Might wanna change the headline to “in memoriam,” with an “a.”
Thanks.
I would like to share with all you my deep condolences for all the people who suffered on this tragic day, 5 years ago. Regardless of all the polemics that are plaguing these last days (or maybe because of the hearth-less behavior of the BushCo propaganda people) my first thought goes to them.
The more I read about the evolution of the political scene in the USA the more depressed and scared I get: the developtment of the story of the ABC docu-foolish tv-movie is really the last drop, the last event that makes me wonder how is possible after 5 years that the scars on the face and hearth of your nation are still so deep and devastating. Don’t get me wrong, 9/11 was a tragedy and a event of cataclismatic proportion, the kind of event that could change a nation forever and that could drive it to withdraw into itself. That’s what happened in the USA during the last five years: the fear and the loath that such event generated have distorted and changed everything, twisting the ideas at the base of your society into a scary bizzaro-world version of what they used to be.
One may say that those ideas of equality and opportunity are mostly just that, ideas that never were really fully realized: the real-life USA is a very different nation than the nation it could be following the principles written in your constitution and declaration of independence. But still in the modern world the USA were the only nation where these ideas were always present in the background of the society, woved deeply in the fabric of your nation : the struggle of the people led by some of the greatest personality in the hystory of mankind (let just name Martin Luther King as a cristal clear example) used to be succesfull in getting things right even when the price paid was huge, even when blood was spilled. Again do not get me wrong, I am not daydreaming about an idealistic USA: being the leader of the western world meant that the USA were in charge (with Europe in tow and responsible as well, just to be clear, I am not shifting blame around here) during some of the most despicable and f**ked up decisions our western society ever made, and the political direction that the powers-in-charge drove the USA on several issues really does not sit well with my idea of what the world should be (South America, anyone ?). But what in my opinion was different was the mindset of people: there were a freshness and an eagerness in the approach of the people of your country through the first 3 quaters of the 1900 that was very rare here in Europe, one of the facts that was given your nation an edge over old “grumpy” Europe (probably too much in love with its long, far-reaching History).
That “sparkling” mindset went stale long before 9/11, I know, killed by the irresistible rising of modern society, of the easy life of today where thinking with its own head is optional (in the USA as well as in Europe), where people can postpone decision forever because someone else can take them. But for the love of my life I was sure that 9/11 (despicable and horrible as it is) would have shocked at last your nation out of its torpor, would have made people stop and think what really went wrong: call me optimistic but I was expecting, yes, the outrage, the desire of punishment for the people behind this (vengeance if you want) but also the raising of a new clearer view of the world, of a new comprehension of the need of changing the approch to the growing mass of the outsiders of our western society, the poor and the differents from us because of their religion, skin color (since they are the majority can we still consider them to be outsiders !?!). Call me stupid but the empaty I felt for the tragedy that struck on 9/11, the same empaty that was in the face and minds of nearly everyone at the time was for me a force for change: I become actually interested in the evolution of my own country (at the time under the control of the Italian right wing party, about which up to that moment my only active action was grumply joking about its inectitude) and it helped me become a more conscious person.
It seems to me, as an external observer from Italy, that the biggest blunder of Bush and Co is the waste of this occasion for change: they took the grief and the pain and used it to modify the roots of the USA, to make reality the lies they have always told to themselves about how your society should work. They have filled the news of fear and lies, they hammered their story in the shape it suited them with no shame and no respect for the victims and their relatives. I really hope there is a special place in hell for these guys, I sure do.
Again I have ranted long enough.
Peace everybody.
OT – raw story says “GOP Senate leadership hinges on Santorum… soon”
C’mere, Urban Pirate, give us a hug.
swag @
30
Done! thanks …
NYC is a very international city with people from all over the world. One hears foreign tongues spoken as often as English. The WTC tenents were invovled with international commerce and so the victims truly do represent a cross section of the world.
As an assalt to america… we all share that horror and grief… but for those who lost family and friends their loss far exceeds anything the rest of us can possibly feel about that day and the loss.
{{{{{{{{{urban pirate}}}}}}}}}}}}}
I’m sitting at work in upstate NY, remembering sitting in this same chair, surrounded by my coworkers, checking our corporate directory and frantically trying to count the floors on the south tower to determine if our friends and colleagues were already dead, or still had a chance. I remember the agonizing 5 days following as the list of the unaccounted-for at my company shrunk from 2000 to 12. I remember celebrating the discovery that the 3 I was especially close to were “OK” (”only” psychic scarring). I remember crying for “my” 12, and for the thousands of others who were someone else’s parent, child, sibling, friend.
twolf1 @ 24
I’ve lost my ability to dream, but I’ll work on that one. With Cheney and Rice reviving their aluminum tubes performance, now with the “al-Qaeda and Iraq – were too, were too” childishness, I don’t see them being fired soon. I have visions of Cheney circling items on the Senate Intel report and scribbling notes (did Sadaam arrange a boodoggle for Zarqawi) and Rice looking intently at Russert, “are you sure you’re done with this Tim?”
*s*
Did a long rambling rant last night, couldn’t sleep (just as well, new dog and not that sure how housebroken or catproof, so I probably need to be awakd) and have just felt so wiped out the last couple of days.
Military commissions legislation, revisons affecting torture act, war crimes act, surveillance nation, Padilla’s request to kick torture testimony kicked out, threats for journalists, AIPAC ruling, Arar, el-Masri, public Presidential endorsements of US Sponsorship of torture and war crimes without a whimper, and on and on.
And then there’s the exploitation of the day – that would leave you wrapped in sadness and anger even if everything had gone well since then.
NY Magazine has a piece worth checking out: The Long Funeral
How 9/11 gave way to grief culture
http://www.nymag.com/news/city…..index.html
I was having drinks in the Signature Room at the top of the Hancock Building in Chicago the evening of September 10. I was in town for a trade show, and had met some co-workers. It was so cool to watch the planes lined up over Lake Michigan as they made their approach to O’Hare into the sunset.
The next morning I got up late and went immediately into the shower. That was unusual, because I normally turn on ESPN to get the sleep out of my eyes. My cell phone battery was dead, from trying to get a signal 70 stories up the night before. I got dressed and called my wife, who told me what happened. I turned on the TV and my head began to buzz, like I was having an out of body experience. I grew up in an NYC suburb, so the Twin Towers were iconic to me.
Not knowing what else to do, I decided to go to McCormick anyway, just wanting to be around other people. Displays normally filled with product videos were all tuned to CNN, with groups of people watching in stunned silence.
I don’t know how many times I cried on the drive back to Indy that day. I know I cried when I finally saw my wife. And my kids. We had a spontaneous candlelight vigil in our neighborhood. Later I learned that a guy I had played hockey with, Tom Galvin, was killed in the Towers. I also learned that Bob Simmons, a sales trainer who I had worked with, had been killed along with his wife on the plane that hit the Pentagon.
Tommy and Bob, our thoughts and prayers are still with you and your families. Let us as a nation overcome the fear and evil unleashed on that day to elevate our society and our country, indeed our world. Peace.
Go to: http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/
Click on the Youtube video. It’s the Buckingham Palace band playing our national anthem shortly after 9/11.
Kimba1970, thank you again.
I hope and BELIEVE that in your lifetime, though possibly not in mine, you’ll see the USA revive its old reputation, or much of it. We WILL live down Bush someday, somehow. And from now forward, your friends here at FDL — I can assure you — will be devoting all our strength to that effort.
Thank you for being with us. We need you.
I’ve been sitting here for over a half hour trying to come up with something profound and enlightning or inspiring, and the words escape me.
I think I will go and meditate for peace and healing.
Kimba1970 @6:10
Your comments are always so thoughtful. I love reading them. Thank you.
Old Sow @
36
from me, too.
MSNBC has the names of all who died on 9/11, on the ground and in the air.
In Memoriam
After the horror of the original attacks, our gov’t office building was evacuated. I live about 3 blocks from work, but had brought my car in that day because I was supposed to go out to an evening event directly from work. It took me almost four hours to drive three blocks because of all the cars trying to get out of DC. Why I didn’t leave my car in the garage at work, I’ll never know. I watched the towers fall on a Quicktime feed from the BBC at my desk before the evacuation was ordered, then listened to my radio for those hours in the car, crying as reports from the sites came in. There were also quite a few false rumors about downtown DC about attacks on the Mall area. You’ll probably think I’m crazy, but in the back of my mind, I was worried if downtown had been attacked that the pandas would be ok (even though the National Zoo is rather far up Connecticut Ave, closer to me than to downtown).
I remember watching CNN over the next few days (or logging on to the webpage) and checking the lists of the confirmed dead. The horror of finding people I knew is still with me.
I also remember going to work on Sept 12 because Bush announced that the government would not shut down because of the attacks. I did walk in and sit at my desk that morning, but I spent my time reading online accounts (CNN, Wash Post, etc). Hardly anyone I needed to contact out at the universities, ngo’s, or private industry was at their desk that day, so I couldn’t have gotten any work done if I’d been so inclined. By noon, I couldn’t take it anymore and we walked to a Mexican place up the road and took a long lunch and drank pitcher after pitcher of margaritas and didn’t really even talk. It’s the one and only time I’ve even consumed alcohol on work time. I’m very dedicated to my job and proud of the work I do.
I still can’t believe that bin Laden isn’t a priority for Bush anymore. I CANNOT believe it.
Good stuff! None of us really know what to say. Here’s my my two cents…
lotus @ 22
Lotus;
Let me know if you speak with Matt in the Orlando office and if he is respectful.
I felt the quake but then again I went through the Northridge quake so I was aware of what was happening. No one around me was.
For some reason I was not shocked.
Pax y luz
Last year, I went to the pier in Jersey City to watch the lights. It was late afternoon when I got there. It was a beautiful late summer day, just like it was then. Slowly, the sun set on NYC and I saw the faintest shimmer in the air where the twin towers once stood. Gradually, the shimmer got stronger and after a half an hour, two strong columns of light showed the way. It occured to me that the columns of light are always there. We just can’t see them except once a year. But if you are in Manhattan and look up, I think if you look out of the corner of your eye, you can just make them out in the hole in the sky where the buildings were ripped out. They are always there, shimmering between twilight and dark, showing the way.
If you are in the area and haven’t seen the most beautiful, ethereal memorial ever imagined, please go. I drove away last year, looking into the rear view mirror and could see them for miles as I made my way back to suburbs of New Jersey. Some of them came from my town.
Excellent post by Steve Clemons called “Note to VP Cheney on 9/11″
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/
It really crystallizes what the Bush foreign policy has done to us for the past five years.
It’s every bit as tragic as 9/11 itself.
Terry in MD, to this day, I worry about whether the pandas will be okay if something else hits Washington. I don’t think that’s crazy — it’s just a mark of our times.
At this moment five years ago, all our minds were so blown, it’s a wonder we were coherent at all … or would be later in the day, maybe.
Florida Mom, I’ve been calling the DC office (free). Is Matt in O’ville worth paying to talk with? If so, do you have the number handy?
Steve-0 @ 21
I just went and read this, and it explains far better than I could have why Path to 9-11 got my blood boiling last night.
Anon lib has it exactly right and I was struggling to find a way to explain why it seemed to me that EVERYTHING i was watchinf seemed innacurate. The only part I actually posted was about the comment about not being able to examine the laptop and I called bulls**t because we have a search warrant procedure in this country.
But Anon Lib has hit it right on the head, the whole movie distorts and lies about the role of process in this country. Both Constitutionla Due Process, and just normal rulles, regulations and procedures put in place to avoid chaos and provide accountabilty.
What does Bushco hate, avoid, destroy at every turn?
Process.
Ans all the screw ups flow from there. the wars, Katrina, tax policy, medicare part D, everything- because Bushco has invited and nurtured chaos.
This is all so clear now. I’m having a forehead slapping moment
The best way to commemorate 9/11 is to reduce the level of discord in our life, to live in peace and harmony with our fellow beings.
Akira Kurosawa’s “Rhapsody in August” is about an elderly Japoneese woman whose husband was killed in the bombing of Nagasaki. In the film the woman tells her grandchildren that America says they droped the bomb to end war but their still fighting. Myself and many people in NYC. feel especially used by this government when 911 is raised as a reason for war, it’s another raw wound they seem to love rubbing salt into.
Thanks CHS for the Pull Up a Chair thread, allowing people to share their experiences.
hmmm…
Some mis-typing slipped through…
I beg forgiveness to the “spelling” patrol..
I would like also to point you to this great post by Gleen Greenwald :
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot…..html#links
Wigwam @ 17
Although this IS off topic, it’s really important. I have heard a lot of stories from within law enforcement that some DC types a very worried about being prosecutede should Congress or the Wh ever change hands.
Maybe not this morning, but one day very soon–like before the legislation is passed– we need to get on this. It’s gutting the War Crimes act. It’s essentially a pre-pardon pardon for Bushco folks who are doing that whole “a guilty conscience needs no accuser” thingy.
lotus @
22
This bill is slated for review by the Armed Services Committee but some GOPs want to bypass them. Three Republicans on the Armed Services Committee, notably Warner (the Committee’s chair), Graham (a former Judge Advocate), and McCain (a former POW) have come out strongly against details of the tribunal portion of the White House proposal, i.e., the first 76 pages. [13] [15] Unfortunately, that fight can become a diversion from the more important matter of preserving the illegality of war crimes in general.
FWIW, Andrew Sullivan http://time.blogs.com/daily_di…..ampai.html says that Rove is going after those three. But none of them are up for re-election this time. If there is a fight it’ll be sort of like WWF.
I only caught bits and pieces of the threads this weekend, but what I saw was truly amazing.
On 9-11, my wife was 8 months pregnant. We woke up, turned on the TV, and heard the breaking news of the first plane hitting the tower, then saw – live – the second plane hit, then the Pentagon . . . We both went to work, though it was an eerie experience on mass transit that day.
That evening, we went to the hospital for a pre-birth class, and everyone was still reeling from the day’s news. The comparison with the mood from the week before (great joy) was stunning, and the leader of the course, before walking us through the materinity ward, spent some time talking about how bringing a new life into the world feels both scary on a day like that and also liberating – fear ought not and cannot not shut us down.
The Kid has never known a world where the Twin Towers stood in New York. Right now, he loves building with his legos and tinkertoys, and playing with his toy airplanes. We told him about the attacks – unavoidable, with all the ads (print and TV) – but avoided all the 9-11 movies, etc.
Yesterday, we went to the SF Opera’s annual free “Opera in the Park” concert at Golden Gate Park. It’s not an opera itself, but a collection of songs from various operas in the coming or past seasons, sung by both A-list stars and up-and-coming performers. It opened, as always, with the national anthem. Seeing and hearing thousands of Bay Area folks, dressed in everything from tie-dye to black tie, standing and singing made my eyes well up.
As the program moved along, it became apparent to me that this was what I needed. Songs of life in all its fullness – fear, doubt, joy, sadness, excitement, silliness, and love. Especially love.
Peace to you all, in NY and elsewhere.
The average number of people who die in automobile accidents annually in America is 43,000.
That means since 9/11, 215,000 people in America died as a result of an auto accident.
NEWS – united 352 from ATL to SF – bag or backpack found in cargo hold and removed. once in air, blackberry device that belonged to nobody found on board. fighters scrambled and jet diverted to dallas. about to land.
hopefully it’s nothing
Lest we forget, the only authorization that allowed the President to send troops to Iraq was based on the specific and fraudulent linkage of 9-11. To wit:
I especially like the last part about not superceding the War Powers Act. Bottom line: now that it is admitted by the Administration that there was no linkage between 9-11 and Iraq, our invasion was patently illegal. Even granting the dubious claim that our occupation is merely the result of a mistake, there is clearly no authorization for staying there, since there is no claim even by the Administration that the terrorists who are now in Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.
At very least, it seems tome,a new authorization is absolutely required immediately.
And, as the kids say, good luck with that.
Doubting that those bots ever got consciences installed, lhp, I’ll call it an “attempted pre-emptive CYA thingy” instead.
twolf1 @ 57
nothing but BE AFRAID, be very afraid
looseheadprop @ 10
I’m the individual that went to Dachau. No clowning around. I took no pictures, but the images on display at the museum are the ones that I remember.
I certainly understand how Steve feels. Its why I haven’t gone back. I can also understand that until a formal place of remembrance is erected, its a construction site that is surrounded by fencing with visual access from the street. It needs to become something other than a construction site pronto.
Florida Mom, if you missed my 52 ^ , got a question for you there.
*ilson46201 @ 64
then we would have daily coot-offs.
CNN basically said he was wandering around bewildered so it sounds like it would have not been much of a change from where we were at.
factoid from CNN: Senator Robert Byrd was President Pro Tem of the US Senate which made him 3rd in line for the Presidency on 9/11/01…
Five years ago my husband was working on a start-up business in Northern California and we were living there part time.
We had left our best dog in Texas as a companion for my elderly mom, and every few months we’d fly home to take care of business there, then we’d load up mumsy’s car and drive her and Miss Suque to Napa for a six-week visit.
On the morning of September 11, 2001, the car was packed, we’d said our good-bys to my husband, and the key was in the ignition when he came running out and said “Somebody on my conference call said to turn on CNN. A plane just hit the World Trade Center.”
For the next two hours we watched the coverage in disbelief, debating what to do. Unpack the car and sit tight? Or go ahead and go?
We decided to go. I can’t really say why except my mom was ready to go home. So we headed east across California, then south through Nevada towards Las Vegas, where the journey turned surreal.
There wasn’t another car on the road. No cellular coverage. Only static-y voices on the radio. The desert hills were forbidding. It felt like we were the last two people on earth.
We stopped that first evening north of Las vegas, planning to go cross Hoover Dam the next day and take 40 east into New Mexico. But when we got there, the dam was closed. By then the of course roads were filled with people who, like us, just wanted to get home. So we zig-zagged our way west, then south, then east again till we picked up 10. But the interstate was crowded. Motels were full.
So we took an alternative route, and along the way, encountered three moments of unexpected, badly needed comfort and, yes, even joy.
The first was when we drove through the Zuni reservation. It was a sacred place, a living prayer, and gave us a sense of continuity and enormous peace.
The second moment was when we found ourselves in Pie Town — aptly named as we discovered when we stopped at a cafe that serves amazing homemade pies. We were greatly comforted by slices of strawberry-rhubarb and pecan.
The third moment occurred when we topped a hill and saw a ghostly expanse of shapes we couldn’t quite make out on the far horizon. A few miles later we rolled past The Very Large Array. And I felt a surge of hope.
A day later we were home but my stay was brief. I was on one of the first flights the first day planes were flying again, going back to join my husband.
People said to me later, “I can’t believe you got on an airplane. Weren’t you scared?”
Not a bit. I’m not afraid of flying to this day. I don’t worry about dying at the hands of terorists. But what I am afraid of is the apocalyptic feeling of that long, barren drive through the Nevada desert on 9/11. When it felt like everything hopeful, everything beautiful, everything I loved was gone forever.
But just a day later, with the car pointed towards home, there was nature in all her glory. There was pie. And there were people listening for a sign from somewhere in the universe.
I was a new New Yorker in 2001, having arrived from Minnesota in June. I was on my way to work that morning, reading a book, standing up on the Q train. It was sluggish that morning getting out of Brooklyn… at Atlantic Ave., the announced that downtown R Trains were skipping downtown stops – no sweat to me, as I was going uptown. At DeKalb Ave. (last stop before the train goes over the Manhattan Bridge), the conductor announced “due to an airplane accident at the World Trade Center, downtown service on the R Line is suspended.” I remember turning to the guy next to me and saying “airplane?” Then we lurched, haltingly, out of the tunnel and onto the bridge. And for the next ten minutes everybody pinned themselves to the left side of the train, making phone calls and watching smoke pour from the buildings. Thing was, none of us had any information… we didn’t know that as we were pulling out of the tunnel, a second plane had hit (we speculated that a plane on a downward angle had hit both buildings, which, from our angle, seemed plausible). We didn’t know anything. Phone service was sporadic. I remember looking down at the floor of the train and seeing a wooden nickel, the kind they give out at casinos. I picked it up and put it in my pocket. The train went into the tunnel on the Manhattan side… first stop is Canal St. As soon as the train hit the tunnel, what was a very loud train (people talking, yelling, crying) fell totally silent.
For some reason (shock, I guess), I continued my commute to Midtown… I arrived at the office where the television was on. A few minutes later (I was in the next office trying to find my wife by phone) I heard a co-worker scream. People were jumping. Then the tower collapse. Then the other a half-hour later.
It took me a couple hours to find my wife by phone (she was temping a few blocks away) and she came to meet me. We tried to go give blood, but the Red Cross was swamped and turned people away. Turns out the hospitals waited on injured who never arrived. People either got out or they didn’t.
I was just learning the way the city has a particular rhythm in the mornings, a sense of order, of rules. That morning, the usual sounds of the morning were replaced by sirens. Long silences. That morning, traffic was flowing in one direction: away. People walking, running, in one direction. A cop car parked on the corner, covered in ash. People walked out to the avenues to look downtown. Everyone looked up. Or stared at their phones. Useless.
In the afternoon, we walked over the 59th St. Bridge and caught the G train back to Brooklyn. Walking over the bridge with thousands of others, looking over my right shoulder at the long stream of smoke pouring over Brooklyn, out to sea, I couldn’t get it out of my head how the attack seemed at once very spectacularly horrific and very… well… small. I looked back over an entire city, unscathed save one city block, and tried to reconcile that with the thousands of us walking over the bridges, the many covered in ash, the people jumping, the smoke. I thought about the firebombing of Tokyo or Dresden, of entire cities reduced to ash. And I didn’t know where to put it.
I hope it isn’t inappropriate to remember the passenges and crew of UA 93 here. I still find it to be amazing that while our own trillion-dollar-a-year federal governement was an abject failure in its primary mission (i.e., to protect the nation and its people), these few were the only ones to actually engage the enemy.
From memory, about 20 percent of those killed in New York were citizens of other countries. Many of their spouses were set for deportation, as their visa entitlement expired when they were widowed, even though some had US citizen children. It took weeks of diplomatic wrangling to allow them to stay.
About a dozen of those killed were illegal immigrants: many of them janitorial staff, or kitchen staff at Windows on the World. Their spouses were compensated, but still live in the shadows.
New Yorkers have a sense of pride and connection to their city unlike any other that I know of. Even those who move away seem to always be “from”there,no matter how far away they are. You just don’t find that with other cities like LA,Atlanta,even Chicago.Not to that degree at least.
So in a sense the people of NYC do “own”9/11 and all the grief and sorrow that goes with that magnitude of loss.
This doesn’t diminish the loss for the rest of us,I don’t think this is an all or nothing deal.Both experiences(close up and far away) can be true,and real,it’s not one or the other.
What I can never forgive the right wing for is how they weaselled in and took a tragedy that brought us all together and used it as just so much fodder to tear us apart.I just can’t ever forgive or forget that,it’s inexcusable.
I live right outside Atlanta,maybe a 40 minute drive.In Suburbia.On 9/11 and in the following weeks,EVERYONE was closer.Our local firehouse was out in force raising money for firehouses in NYC that suffered losses of their brothers.People hugged them and wept with them,complete strangers.Everyone was kinder,gentler with each other.Few if any of us had a direct connection to NYC(except our NYC transplants down this way),but it didn’t matter.We wanted to help,even if there wasn’t alot we could really do besides give money,hold vigils,and talk amongst ourselves about what this event meant for the country and the people of NYC.
And then the GA GOP started their crap and as quick as the sense of community fell over us,it was GONE.At their hands.I can not forgive that,I just can’t.Part of me,the dark part,wants all of them to suffer for what they’ve done to us.
No radio or TV for me today.I can’t take it,especially hearing politicians run their rotten little mouths about this day.
I planted a little white rose on 9/13 that year,white roses symbolize renewal and promise.Today I’ll prune the plant,feed it,tidy it up a bit and remember.
*ilson46201 – I quoted your 67 before you even said it!
MSNBC is also playing the real 9/11/2001 coverage from the today show.
Previously, in the aftermath of the disaster I resisted the continual watching of it.
Today, I feel like watching it because after all the details that have come out and after listening to the NORAD tapes it is different to put it in the perspective of all that has happened.
Now it makes me a little anxious but it is just reinforcing my own memory of what happened. It is reinforcing that this was a terrorist attack not a military action and that we have wasted so many resources fighting in Iraq because of the Bush Administration’s greed and hubris.
May all those who lost their lives in these attacks rest in peace, and may all those first responders who are ill be given the care that they need.
May Democrats retake congress and investigate what our government has been doing in our name for the past five years.
Windje at 64
See? that’s how it supposed to be.
My soon to be ex-husband is a HUGE GWB supporter. Wrote many a donation check to him. Shrub sends out Thank you cards with that god awful picture of him and the firefighter with their arms around each other.
You know how folks do Christmas cards with a pix of the family dressed in red? kinda like that.
The people taking pictures and buying soveniers at Ground Zero were talking about maybe making one of those photos their Christmas card photo that year.
I’m thinking htey learned to be so crass and callous from Shrub.
Wigwam @ 17
Emphatically NOT OT! If the guys selling mugs get folks mad, what about the ones in Washington, stealing the whole damn country?
Wigwam, anyone — any idea who these ‘key Democratic senators?’ are? Usu congresscritters don’t/can’t take mail or phone calls from people not in their district. Any way to reach them?
lhp, somebody said class action. Do we have legal grounds? Who would know? How do we start that? I assume with money…
DefJef, I agree they MIHOP, but they’ll use it to the hilt even if they didn’t do it. We need these guys *out* and then *maybe* we’ll see a real investigation.
Me, I’m sending more letters to Disney, Apple and the advertisers. I’ll also be sending letters to the Clintons, Madeleine Albright and Samuel Berger asking them to please follow through on this with walloping lawsuits in every country where this POS has been aired. If they let this one ride it’ll be the greatest wste since BushCo wasted the compassion of the world after 9/11.
In memory of all those who died that awful day, in recognition of those on Flight 93 who attempted to beat off the enemy and in mourning for our noble ideals and sense of honor that perished when politicians used what happened this day five years ago for their own wicked agendas, rather than the common good of the common people …
Aalittle musicality, can you explain “The Very Large Array”?
lotus @ 25
Hell yes!
alittlemusicalityplease, that may be the best story I hear all day. Thank you so much.
al-Scooter @ 69
Amen.
Old Sow @ 78
OS, I have a link here
It is a remarkable astronomical observatory. I have a friend who used to work there in maintenance. Said it was one of his two favorite jobs (the other was measuring glacier flow, by going out every day with a measuring tape and measuring the distance between two metal poles, one in the glacier, the other in rock)
evil cheney speaking at the pentagon now.
looseheadprop @ 75
I think the problem with the tourist behavior you allude to is that there is no formal area where it would be clear even to the unwashed masses that one should remove one’s hat and be respectful. They end up on sidewalks of NYC with all the normal traffic (both vehicular and pedestrian) going about their business all around them.
All of the people I know that work at WFC hated going back even months later.
Here Comes the Closure Fairy!
All that good will from the rest of the world, squandered. And criminally so.
My God. If later you catch a transcript of what Cheney’s saying at the Pentagon right now, YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE YOUR EYES.
He is out-of-this-universe delusional.
alittlemusicality,
Pie Town had the annual pie fest over the weekend, so I guess it is about this time of year every year.
VLA is a giant radio telescope in the desert near Quemado, NM. Picture a y-shaped rail track with giant dish receivers mounted on it. It is a project of international cooperation of astronomers. The configuration can be changed to pick up signals from very distant stars and etc.
What is striking to me is that while OBL went after the trade towers, the heart of symbolic capitalism, GWB has used it to decimate the pillars of democracy. This election will show how totally he has been successful in demolishing everything the government has stood for. Compound tragedy.
*ilson46201 @ 16
Yes *ilson. The coverage of 9/11 almost makes it sound like everyone who lost their lives was an white anglo-american, when in fact people came from tons of different backgrounds and spoke many languages. You only need to go back and check the obits of the NYT. The saddest obituary I read was of a man past retirement age, originally from Taiwan, who was doing delivery work because he wanted to contribute to his favorite Buddhist temple even though his children wanted to support him.
Old Sow @ 79
It’s a radio astronomy observatory that has row upon row of dishes, which are like, 80-feet across with radio antennae directed at the heavens. If you saw the movie Contact or read Carl Sagan’s book, much of it was around the VLA, as it’s called. It’s located off of highway 60 in NM and is an swesome (in a good way) sight.
To get a somewhat more reality-based narrative on 9/11, the graphic version of the 9/11 Report is available at Slate. You will have to backtrack to start at the beginning. You can also buy the printed version at amazon.
This graphic version reflects what is in the report itself, so it is accurate to the extent that the official report itself is accurate.
Graphic Version of the 9/11 Report.
Gotta get to work now. Please don’t get too bent out of shape thinking about Bush. Save that for another day. Peace.
OT – Situation Called Dire in West Iraq
windje #63:
It needs to become something other than a construction site pronto.
I’m not a New Yorker, so per Gilliard, et al, I have no standing on this matter. But FWIW I agree with you completely.
Someone last night brought up Pearl Harbor as an anniversary not to be celebrated, but I’d offer it as a counter-example. If you visit the USS Arizona Memorial and attend the informational program, the National Parks guide will remind the audience that the Memorial is both a national monument and a national cemetery.
I don’t understand why Ground Zero isn’t being treated similarly other than somebody wanting to make money renting more office space in Lower Manhattan. Seems pretty venal to me. My inclination would be to landscape at ground level something akin to the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in DC, with the names of the victims (most assuredly including first responders who have suffered and are suffering from next-order toxic effects) displayed with dignity and reverence.
Hot flash
I’m not sure where a class action would come in. Wigwam’s excellent comments are about 2 pieces of proposed legislation.
One of the bills seeks to create by statute the very military commssions the Supreme Court just said were illegal. So the question is will th elegislative Branch side with the Suprme Court, the Constitution and the rule of law; or will the Legislative branch side with the Unitary Executive ?
A couple/few Republicans have opposed this bill and are supposed to get a bitch slapping by Rove in the next few days.
The second bill is much more sinister. It essentially creates a pre-pardon pardon for anyone who committed war crimes at Shrub’s behest (I oversimplify, but not in a misleading way).
One of the things I wonder about, is wheather that would also remove the War Crimes Act as a source of impeachment charges against Shrub and Cheney? I have no clue as to the answer, but can think of many related questions.
I guess the best ting we can do is to do the usual drill to try to block these bills.
lotus @ 63
Someone finally got wise to the fact that there is problem relying on lawyers with no ethics and less than stellar ability to reason and a complete inability to see “down the line” to the inevitable consequences of action. As a result, the Addington/Cheney version of Presidential Power as the ultimate Nike commercial is getting more skepticism from the people who were told to “just do it.”
IMO, there’s been some rebellion in the ranks of Those Who Bush Stands On to Reach His High Ground (the story about the legal insurance purchases is telling). Lederman has said that he thinks reliance on OLC opinions would/could/should be an “out” but I don’t see it — how do you claim reliance without waiver of privilege?
So IMO, you have Hayden/Negroponte – especially since Hayden bears such a direct responsibility for five years of Congressional deceit and felony authorizations and now has CIA looking to him – who have pretty much decided that they want to do clean up and Addington/Cheney don’t cut it. IMO, a lot of the push for the authorizations isn’t much about the authorizations (except for Cheney)- it’s all about the amnesty.
OT, but not really:
I suppressed my gag reflex and went to the Drudge site to get these, because I saw on Atrios that Couric’s ratings went down after she had Limbot on and was curious, the overnites were a bonus. I expect that they’ll fall even more tonight, esp with a preznitdential address buzzkill in the middle.
Note no difference between ABC’s dreck and CBS’s little hyped repeat.
you know, i did not contribute to the remembrances at pull up a chair because mine seem so damn fresh it’s clear i’m still in some way working through everything.
i knew people who died, i knew people who by the happiest of circumstances had plans changed that allowed them to live. one friend to this day is recovering from the horrible burns she suffered. a colleague at work had a brother die at the pentagon. for weeks, then months, after, i would go down to the site late at night, and just watch the workers remove what they could, as the smoke rose from underground fires still smoldering, under the arcs of halogen lighting that made the entire experience both as unreal as a movie set and as hyperreal as a bosch landscape. a vigil, though i didn’t think of it that way then.
the truth of it is there is not one damn day that i somehow don’t think of it.
and yet the true horror was what came after, and continues to come: the absolute hijacking of this nation, its blood, its treasure and, more important than any of that, its meaning. there was a nasty back and forth following the gilliard post about how the towers fell. and somebody wrote the real point: it doesn’t matter how, they fell. would it make us any more aghast to find out some governmental complicity, if only by letting it happen?
not to me it wouldn’t. this government’s post-9/11 agenda (and the complicity of the cowardly dems enabling it is part of that, let’s face it) is the daily obscenity, the sad relentless driven slide from the best human impulses that america held out as a promise to all — if we could keep it.
on the worst of these days, it feel like endtime for what remains of our democracy. i don’t want to submit to despair. but today, five years after what feels like yesterday, mingled in with the true ache for what occurred, i find myself wondering what is left to be recovered from the smoldering heaps of all that came after.
al-scooter at 94, I’m with you……..
bg @ 89
I couldn’t agree with you more. But I’m determined not to dwell on the Halliglutton crowd today.
So back to pies… The town where I live in Texas is famous for its pies, so my mom and I brought some Pie Town pies home and on 9/14, had a pie tasting, just the two of us. As good as the Pie Town pies are, I have to give the edge to our town’s Dutch Apple. It’s the best.
The Roots Project “SRP Newsweekly” podcast is putting out a special episode today at around 3pm. It will include thoughts on 9/11 from a number of Roots members including TRex and Pach. Stop by.
al-Scooter @ 93
I think there needs to be an area dedicated to the event. But IMHO, the best tribute to the victims and the spirit of america is to rebuild it ASAP. It should linger no longer as a hole in the ground.
DMG
(((((hugs))))))
Actually NYT Magazine did a piece on family members of undocumented workers at WTC (e.g. the restaurant), who had very little means of finding out whether their loved ones were dead or alive. I hope those families got some closure.
… and to all those who, in the years since, have lost their lives through violence perpetrated to achieve political ends.
looseheadprop @ 57
We settled these things at Nuremberg. “Just following orders” doesn’t cut it. But Gonzales slept through class the day they got to that part of the book. Here is what he told the Senate Armed Services Committee in late July: “”It seems to us it is appropriate for Congress to consider whether or not to provide additional protections for those who’ve relied in good faith upon decisions made by their superiors.”
He working up to the just-giving-orders defense, also the just-rendering-an-opinion defense.
BTW, at Nuremberg lawyers and propagandists were held accountable.
Before this is over, the U.S. will need a Truth-And-Reconciliation Commission.
Windje
Al Scooter
I don’t care what they build. It’s the gaping festering wound, it’s the hole in the ground, it’s the lack of Parks Service people to remind gawkers that it’s a grave yard.
It’s the freakin’ disrespect.
looseheadprop @ 107
LHP, why do you think it’ still like that? (serious question)…..
Wigwam
I said it before and I will say it again.
This topic deserves it own post, maybe several, and it’s own lobbying campaign.
that being said, I’m gonna get outta here for a while because i notice I am drifting back into that mood where all the wash my mouth out with soap stuff comes from.
My mom always said, if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all. i am not feeling nice today.
I feel like a class A bitch. So full of bile. So, darlings, I’m gonna get on my broomstick and ride.
good morning all.
kimba1970– you write so very eloquently and I am very glad you are here at FDL.
I had hoped that out of our pain would come something better for our country, too. Instead, the administration led us down a dark, hateful and lie-strewn path…and some still believe that this is the way. ;(
looseheadprop @ 105
as a practical matter, one can either ignore them or forgive them, for they know not what they do. . . . or just stay away until it hurts less.
al-Scooter @ 70
I remember after the crashes, they went through stories and sometimes pictures of the victims from the planes. There’s one I have never forgotten, a picture that came up of a young girl – maybe or so in the picture, who was travelling with her mother. I don’t remember which plane, any of the rest of the story, but that smiling picture I’ve never forgotten.
I think about it, too, everytime I hear the civilian, children especially, casualties from the Bush wars. And I wonder how it came to be that we went down so many wrong paths. You look past the hype and spin for something real and worthwhile and hopeful to come from any of it, and it just doesn’t seem to be there.
Military Intel says Anbar is basically lost
High Ranking Brit Officer Quits bc of How Badly Afghanistan is Being Handled
All the enablers, willing to use 9/11 as a platform for Presidential misadventures and looting of the country; willing to overthrow of our national values to prop up the effects of Bush and Cheney as leaders for this country. Willing to sell the lies, without accepting responsiblity.
Mui — appropos of you at 90, *ilson at 16
I believe that the largest number of foreign nationals who died on September 11th were Brazilians — primary maintenance and cleaning people (over 150? if I remember correctly, just from that one country).
Lhp. There was nothing whatsoever to be sorry for.
I grew up in upstate New York, lived in Brooklyn and had two not-so-close friends die that day in the towers. More importantly, I had scores of friends in New Yoork who did not die that day. Ownership of grief is a tricky business and it certainly says much more about the exclusive owner than it does the person who is empathetic and also can share the horror and grief and even relief. It is the survivors who most need care, comfort and a government that works for them instead of using them as a cudgel in the effort to grasp more power.
So, as my epigram at Kos says: Save your tears for the living.
those preliminary TV ratings about PT911 show that only one eighth of the TV viewers watched the GOP-mockudrama … sounds like a ratings fiasco for a $40,000,000 no-commercials special …
Old Sow @ 108
George Pataki. This is his fuck up.
He is a nice man. I lake him as a person. Definately a guy you want to invite to your next BBQ, but by this he has demonstrated that he is totally unfit to lead or govern —anything.
And Zenia Mucha can eat Dick Cheney’s shorts!
(golly–I really am in a foul mood)
Thank you Christy for a deeply moving post. It is amazing to see how thoughtful you are in guiding the deepest feelings of the commenters into an honorable and healing direction. The gathering of people around this post is meaningful and respectful of the tragic events of 9/11.
lhp, thanks muchly.
and thanks also for your post on late night fdl re: gilliard. in one of the last comments there (#371) in case you didn’t see it, said i pretty much hold with your take on how to regard folks who weren’t in nyc but want to visit ground zero. to my mind, it should be as inclusionary as possible.
gotta go for now. be well all. and be good to each other.
dmg @ 98
I hear ya, and feel with ya, DMG.
Thanks for the hugs everybody. Contrary to my best efforts, I broke down and cried for a bit. :(
Anyone see shrubs “ceremony” from a wide angle? They built a reflecting pool and filled it up just for the pic. What an exploitive fucker. Of course, the corporate media just lets him do it. What I wouldn’t give to have THESE pics shown on CBS news.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..23056/7770
{{{{{{{{{{LHP}}}}}}}}} and I won’t mind all the porcupine quills. And thanks for your response and your fire……….
Empathy for the suffering of others is an admirable quality, but the events of 9/11 are entirely owned and operated by the Republican Party. They are used as a cudgel to beat down the opposition. Every warm feeling, every note of sober reverence, every salute, every wreath strengthens the Republican narrative and legitimizes their power. To contrast, think of WWII and the ceremonies of true national unity. And this is the trick- because national duty requires reverence for 9/11 and its centrality in the definition of the nation and its foreign policy, it also requires paying rhetorical respect to Republican vision of the world. It is classic marketing.
The Republicans have been masterful at placing the executive failures of 9/11 on Bill Clinton and the Democrats. It is central, central, central to owning 9/11. We can be sure that the perceptions of the public will affirm this ugly bit of propaganda, no matter what the reality. This fall they will go negative, as they must, and further define the opposition. If history is any lesson the Democrats and Progressives will play right into their hands, begin unable to sustain an aggressive opposition.
Good Morning all-
On this day when we remember so much pain and suffering I offer these words of hope courtesy of Bruce Cockburn:
“rumours of glory”
“above the dark town
after the sun’s gone down
2 vapour trails cross the sky
catching the day’s last slow goodbye
black skyline looks rich as velvet
something is shining
like gold but better
rumours of glory
smiles mixed with curses
the crowd disperses
about whom no details are known
each one alone yet not alone
behind the pain/fear
etched on the faces
something is shining
like gold but better
rumours of glory (repeat)
you see the extremes
of what humans can be?
in that distance some tension’s born
energy surging like a storm
you plunge your hand in
and draw it back scorched
beneath it’s shining like
gold but better
rumours of glory.”
“You see the extremes of what humans can be”. Indeed.
The FDL community and the millions of like-minded people throughout this country are my rumour of glory.
As a nation, we can do better. We are doing better. We will do better. Compassion AND strength will win.
Re my 115 (I know I said I was leaving, but that comment probabaly doesn’t make sense to most folks)
Zenia Mucha used to work for Al D’Amato. So, you now know everything you need to know about her character and ruthlessness. When Uncle Al annointed PAtaki to be the next Gov. of NYS, way back when, ole’ George was too nice a guy to clear his own primary field much less duke it out with the Cuomo knife fighters.
So, Uncle Al dispatched Ms Mucha to go smack the press around for George. This woman invented press intimidation as a means of molding the story. She make Lee Atwater look like an alter boy.
So, after a stint on Pataki’s Gov’s staff, Zenia went off to beocme the head of PR for (wait for it) …… Disney. Yup, she flacks for the Rat.
Only recently she took a couple weeks off to help Pataki (wait for a again)….. run for President.
Yes people, contemplate the prospect of another weak clueless puppet king only this time instead of Darth Cheney pulling the marrionette strings it will be Al D’Amato.
Things just keep getting better and better. Not.
I am appalled by not only the rebuild fiasco which has been a fight for 5 years… but the appalling architecture which they are now planning. It so crass and shameful.
I don’t really think NYC needs all that office space down there and they are planning to, of course, load it up with shopping hoping to make money from the tourists who will flock to that site.
What a tragedy has befallen this nation who to this day cannot find a fitting way to honor those people who were murdered and those heroes gave their lives in an attempt to save others.
Like the Bushbots, the “developers’ of that site should rot in eternal hell… if only there was a such a place.
Bush, the fool has to stand there while the names of 2700 dead are read off and thousands of tears are shed by millions.
Now think of all the people Bush has killed in his war of revenge and empire. It is the same grief and sadness that has ripped apart tens and tens of thousands of lives.
Eternal hell is too kind a punishment for these people who kill, murder and do it for revenge and profit.
looseheadprop @
95
LHP, I am aware of the legislation and am doing my best against it. My clout in that is limited as I am not a US resident, but I contact friends and rellies with a heads-up. Also, the ‘usual drill’ has not proven real effective — got to be some way though.
My question to you, and I think you are maybe not a lawyer but know a bit about such things, is whether there could be any grounds for a class action against ABC for airing PT911. As citizen/audience types it may be difficult to prove damages, but surely it’s not OK for them to knowingly lie on public airwaves? But I don’t know US law. And so far as I know it did not air in Canada.
DefJef @ 123
Actually, the WTC was the economic engine that spurred the re-emergence of NYC after the near bankruptcy of the 1970’s. NYC then was a dank dirty place with a crumbling infrastructure. the money (in the form of salries to sorkers) that came from turning NYC into the busness capital of the world saved, not only NYC, but the Northeast.
They probably do need the office space back. And the retail that waas ther should probaly be replaced, In the 1980’s the only place in that part of the world to get coffee on a Sunday was down there. Back when Battery Park city was still a frontier town, the Shops at the WTC were pretty much it.
d r i f t g l a s s
Wow!
looseheadprop @ 95
Wow. You’re right on top of this stuff. Here are two web sites you’ll likely find interesting.
Here is Andrew Sullivan’s discussion of the bitch slapping that Warner, Graham, and McCain are supposed to get from Rove: http://time.blogs.com/daily_di…..ampai.html
Here is how http://www.cboldt.blogspot.com describes those two bills:
The second one, i.e., the Millitary Commissions Act of 2006, is the Administration’s pitch to keep doing business as usual and to get retroactive indemnification from war-crimes prosecution. That’s the sinister one.
As I understand it, impeachment is indictment for “high crimes and misdemeanors,” but if the law says (retroactively) that war crimes aren’t U.S. crimes we’ll need to go after him for something else. The point is that he has already admitted to the war crimes and SCOTUS has ruled that war crimes are federal crimes. He’s toast unless he can slip this turkey past congress.
I watched the thing and all of garbage that had the right drooling was either cut out, edited or otherwise gone. Heh heh. It was basicly just a crappy movie. I won’t be watching the second half.
lhp, “Sen. Pothole” and known sleazeball Al D’Amato’s close defeat of Bob Abrams was one of the earliest of many that really stick in my craw. Was Zenia Mucha instrumental in that?
HotFlash @ 124
I am a lawyer. But can’t think of any grounds for standing. Standing=the legal right to bring suit.
Clearly Clinton, Albright, Berger, the family of John O’Neil, et al; all have standing to bring a defamation suit, but I don’t know why an ordinary veiwer would.
maybe some smarter lawyer than me could think of some grounds.
A viewer would not be “damaged” because all the viewer needs to do to avoid damage, is turn the TV off. Viewer discretion was advised even in some of the propmotional commercials.
Cozumel @ 128
An overwhelming ratings success (which never happened) could have covered internally to Disney/ABC the damage done to Mickey’s image. Now Disney/ABC have both a P.R. fiasco and a ratings fiasco to deal with. $40,000,000 down the toilet…
Deal with it, motherfuckers!
IT’S EARL HOLLIMAN’S BIRTHDAY!!!!!
Let’s hear it for Policewoman !
Cozumel @ 128
Coz,
Love you kid, but I really disagree. I found everything about this movie to be inacurate in some respect. This was clearly done by someone who has very little idea of how government works, law enforcement works, or law works.
There is a basic ignorance that informs all of it and therefore lead the folks that made this to make inferences and reach conclusions that are jsut way off the mark.
So, yeak, maybe they a got a person’s name right here and there, or a date, or the time of day, but in general, it misrepresents almost everything.
There is a linek further up thread to Amonymous Liberl that explains it better than I can
immanentize @ 113
Well immanentize, that concerns me greatly. Apparently, families of undocumented workers had a harder time finding the fate of family members. In one case, (via NYT), I read about a woman with very little money, from a small vilage in Mexico who was unable to find out the fate of her husband last known to be working in the restaurant. He wanted their children to be able to go to school. One of her last conversations: her husband would jokingly tell their kids that the building he worked in was so tall he could see everyone, including the family back in Mexico. What pains me is reading hearing about all these dreams, and then they are spit out like bones and the families get less than 3rd class treatment in terms of notification, etc.
*ilson at 131
1) thank you for all your hard work last night. you eyeballs must still be bleeding.
2) re: your comment: I smell a Sarbanes/Oxley problem (can anyone hear say “misuse of corporate funds” or ” lax oversight by the Board of Directors”?) or just a good old fashioned shareholders derivative suit for waste not only of corporate funds, but also for damaging the value of several brand names.
Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Zenia’s gonna have to come back early from her, ahem “volunteer work” with Pataki.
Or, Zenia honey, was this “volunteer work” thingy supposed to be a cover for Disney easing you out the door?
Now you see it, now you don’t.
Hi *ilson.
Tom — it was explained to you last night. You then changed names and posted again. You scroll spammed. You called us Nazis. You were an asshole. You have messed up your cause by being rude, obnoxious, duplicitous and generally disruptive and insensitive.
be gone…
looseheadprop @ 133
I did write down a couple of lines I red flagged…
1993 bar scene in NYC. FBI talking to an informant. “Individuals have a right to be protected from domestic spying.”
FBI guy talking to John O’Neil about Ramzi Yousef’s laptop. “If that happened here (not the Philippines) there is no way we could look at that laptop.”
lotus @ 88
Honestly, today, I don’t think I can take it. An anniversary like this is enough without Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Snow and their crew of lying thumbsuckers trying to milk the occasion for yet another fraud-filled photo-op.
I have an in-flight magazine from a trip on Pakistan International years ago which I kept because of an article on carpets. Included was an article entitled, “Exploring Lower Manhattan, The Financial Capital of the World,” written by Habeeb Salloum and reads like a Chamber of Commerce piece with glowing remarks and pictures. “We came for two days to explore the wealthiest part of the entire city. Our first stop was the World Trade Centre with its twin towers, 110 storeys high–appearing like unreal monoliths reaching more than a quarter of a mile into the sky.” And more.
The last sentence reads, “An ideal end to our exploration of Lower Manhattan–a great financial capital of the world and the living heart of New York.”
Today the information on carpets is incidental to the Salloum article.
http://www.loosechange911.com/
A better movie.
Tom, other sites are better suited to the information you offered here the other evening.
Tom — just stop it. you are being deleted rapidly. You changed names last night which is duplicitous. You want to start an argument today. Nobody is up for that disruption.
so stop it now, please
The d r i f t g l a s s link – don’t go there if you need a dry eye or a calm heart.
There won’t be anything to touch that anywhere in MSM.
I am listening to the Live-Time streaming news on CNN. What is very interesting is a comment that someone on CNN – maybe Aaron Brown? – made about a half hour after the WTC attacks, but before the Pentagon attack.
He mentioned that already speculation was that the attack was done by AlQuaeda. And, he referred to the PDB THAT SAID “BINLADEN DETERMINED TO ATTACK WITHIN THE US”. This was right after the attack, and already speculation was made and the existance of the PDB was noted.
If the Dems were smart, they’d make a very simple three part TV ad. Part one: Bush saying on 9/14 saying he would get BinLaden, Part two: Bush saying in May 2002 that he wasn’t concerned about BinLadin, and Part 3: Bush NOW saying he wants to find BinLadin.
When I fell asleep last night, the tv was on MSNBC, so when I flipped it on this morning, the Imus show was on and Bob Kerrey, the 9/11 commission participant was on the phone and quoting from PT911 and saying he learned things he did not know (about John O’Neil). Those few minutes that I listened pissed me off so much. That Kerrey would or could believe ANY part of the movie knowing how many things were in error was beyond me especially knowing that 2 FBI agents hired as consultants quit due to the inaccuracies about their agent O’Neill. I intend to email him today and let him know what I think. My Mom used to say, “If you can’t believe all of it, you can’t believe any of it”. If Bob Kerrey got suckered after having been on the 9-11 Commission, how much hope can we realistically expect from the average person not to believe everything which was presented last night. I did not watch the movie and I will never buy another item associated with Disney.
phoebes @ 146
And then add in Part 4: “Mission Accomplished” followed by the narrator – “Did I miss something? I thought Bin Ladin was still out there . . .”
Mary @ 144
Agree.
Line that made me cry: “I miss America.”
looseheadprop @ 130
Thanks for the info, I was afraid that was the case. We’ve had action against holocaust deniers here, but that was under anti-hate laws. Hmm, but I am pretty a sure newspapers have been spanked for printing stuff they knew to be untrue, just not sure who sued who. I have a call in to my dad, retired newspaper editor, maybe something there. And I’ll go look at the FCC website, too. I can’t believe that there is no law against lying in the media, if that’s the case, why should they ever tell the truth?
So, anybody know if the Clinton’s et al are pursuing this at law?
Tom, I always appreciate your comments.
But…
You’re spamming with O/T stuff and generally disrupting.
You might as well be yelling “the Giants game last night was FIXED! Fixed! you fucking nazis”
Once, it would be comical. Repeatedly, it’s annoying. We know where to go if we want to have that discussion.
I only speak for me, but you’re being rude and pugnacious, and the mods shouldn’t have to deal with it on top of all the other shit they deal with.
lina – the whole thing did me in, but when I got to the pictures, then to “cried so much his face was wet, then I knew he was not lying” I almost couldn’t go on to the end.
looseheadprop @ 133
Heh. OK, I just read it. He/she picked up the laptop line too. I still think though all and all it wasn’t what the right hoped for propaganda wise.
lotus @ 88
Cheney’s interview with Father Tim Russert went off horribly yesterday. Someone should have told Dick not to smirk just a little and make some little joke about shooting poor Whittington in the face: “you’re not in season.” Heh, good one Dick!
Peterr @ 149
His goal was to lie his way into bombing Iraq under false pretenses. Mission Accomplished.
Of course he and PNAC are shortsighted fucks, so its a curse of getting what they prayed for.
God, I hate those fuckers today.
Five years ago I was on the West Coast and I still am. I awoke to the coverage on CNN. I got my sweetie (who, thankfully is stilll with me) up and while I was pretty matter-of-fact, she just about comppletely freaked.
I was out of work at the time so I set up a web page where members of a forum we were part of at the time could click a link and check in.
I feell no more grief for the victims. In many ways, they got off easy. they didn’t have to deal with what looks like a never-ending aftermath.
There are times when the fact that I’m stuck in the US for the rest of my life makes me feel suicidal. Today is one of those days. I truly detest what this nation has become and in some ways, what *I’ve* become. SO angry, so often.
tom-chicago is the Fred Phelps of the 911Conspiracy crowd …
I was struck yesterday, while watching Dick Cheney on MTP, that the same man who claimed he has not read the Senate Intel Committee’s reports is the same man who just about hounded the intelligence services in the run-up to the Iraq war, beating the bushes for intel that would support their plans. The same man who was apparently up to his elbows in the Plame affair.
While he may not have read the reports, I find it unlikely that he had no heads-up on the conclusions reached, that Pat Roberts did not come crawling on his knees begging forgiveness for what was about to be made public, that there have been no internal meetings or conversations about the reports. I mean, we know Karl Rove has got to know, because he has to plan Phase Two of the GOP mid-term election strategy – the one that will somehow try to make impeachable offenses the equivalent of self-defense that any self-respecting American should be rewarding, and only Democrats would be so blind as to think paying attention to the actual laws and court rulings brings anything meaningful to national defense.
Someone asked me recently whether, if I had the opportunity to meet Bush or Cheney or Rove or Gonzales or Mehlman, would I shake their hands? Would I be polite? My answer was that, because I did not think I would be able to shake their hands, or be polite, I would have to decline to meet them; I am not comfortable in the presence of evil.
If I were a family member or friend of someone who died on that day, the last people I would want paying tribute to the lives lost would be any member of this administration.
Coz
that one drove me particularly insane. I wa raving at the TV last night. Am I the only one who ever heard of applying for a search warrant?
Don’t think so.
But the idiot who wrote thatline seems to be unaware that such a procedure exists.
Same thing with domestic wiretaps. There have been such things practicaly since the days telephoning began. You just have to get a warrant.
With less compelling probable cause (or if you don’t have a need for the content of conversation) you get a penn register order which shows you the other numbe for all incoming and outgoing calls.
Jsut like the NSA program, only with due process. It’s all been around for years ans years, and ahs been done everyday with full legal protections. This is plain vanilla stuff.
Anne @ 159
Amen to that.
To whom it may concern, from a discussion yesterday, Pachacutec offered the following at 8:13 pm:
one of the reasons for conquering the Phillipines in the early 1900s was to bring the blessings of American civilization to the little brown folk. Nowadays the wingers are trying to bring the Phillipine judicial system to the USA …
Photo of George and Laura Bush standing on the American flag over at DailyKos.
I am of a generation that remembers that it is a sin to stand on the American flag. In your shoes. For any reason whatsoever.
Prof @ 163
I just can’t help seeing the act as symbolic. Bush couldn’t offer a better accounting for himself unless he hiked down his slacks on national TV and wiped his ass with the original Bill of Rights.
new thread from Taylor Marsh: “How Did We Get from 9-11 To Iraq?“
Guitar Playing Bastard @ 156
GPB– I completely get it. Sometimes I despair that America as we know and love it will survive the BushCo assault.
But I also know that a demoralized populace is an easy target for the Totali-barians in the White House.
So when I’m feeling especially bleak, I think of the video clip that was taken of Bush when he was running for governor of Texas where he gives the camera the one finger salute. And I imagine a thought balloon above his pointy little head with the word SUCKERS! in capital letters. And I buck up and go on.
We can’t let the sorry-ass bastards get us down. America needs us.
Five years ago from right now, I was pulling out of our driveway, taking the kids to their schools. The car radio was on the Anchorage NPR station which usually carrys 4-hour delayed Morning Edition, but was obviously playing a live feed of something very serious and bad. We got about two blocks before some clarity emerged. Both WTC towers were down, etc. I called my wife and told here to turn on the TV at home. The kids (then in 6th and 9th grades) were less disturbed than I was. We had recently visited the WTC on a NYC visit, so they knew the area. I was tempted to call my wife back and have her call our broker, but then thought “He’s probably swamped…..no, wait, Wall Street is probably in lockdown if not worse.” Then I thought “WTF, man, don’t think about money. There’s maybe 10,000 – 20,000 people dead in lower Manhattan, and that’s all you can think about!”
Then I remembered that my sister was supposed to be in NYC, begging for money for her foundation at an investment bank in the WTC. When I got home, as my wife and I watched the TV in awful wonder, I called my sister’s husband. I kept calling.The line was busy all morning. Then I went to work.
My sister was OK – she had had her WTC meeting on September 10, and had flown from Newark to San Francisco on the early morning of the 11th.
I’ve never gotten over how selfish I felt when I realized my first impulse upon knowing a bit of what was happening, was to worry about money.
Those we lost that day would want us to never forget…
QUESTION EVERYTHING: http://thumbsnap.com/v/qyXTftwL.jpg
Especially the “OFFICIAL (Conspiracy Theory) STORY”
OT
Any blog site without a community of commentors is nothing more than a bunch of individuals spouting off.
Site such as DailyKos and FDL are what they are because of their comments as well as their diarists. The notion of censoring the comments is hardly different than government censorship and the use of moderation needs to be applied sensibly with an objective standard.
Topics in politics are rarely so narrow that the discussion can’t spill off into history… “surrounding” issues. Who is to say what is relevant to the discussion and what is not?
When the discourse is civil and people are not slinging insults and raise provocative points why censor content of comments? Why is the OT comment acceptable but other content deemed unacceptable.
Please explain moderators… I would like some light here.
looseheadprop @ 159
I hear ya ; ) One more thing. I didn’t come away thinking…Gee, I can hardly wait to watch part 2 tomorrow night!!!! There was no there, there ; )
Prof says
September 11th, 2006 at 8:33 am
And these are the people who are screaming about desecrating the flag by burning it in protest?
====
I was listening to the radio (news station) when the story came through. I knew when the second plane hit that it wasn’t an accident. Left for work anyway – what else could I do? – and at the train station the TV was on, so I got the Pentagon news there. Got out of the subway station at the other end of my trip (train filled with rumor, speculation, and fear) to find that the building had been closed and people were on their way home.
One thing that tends to be lost is, IMO, that the hijackers weren’t pilots, they were plane-steerers. The targets were picked not only for their symbolic value, but also because they were easy to recognize from the air. (I think U-93 was going for the Capitol, or maybe a second hit on the Pentagon.)
Oh, well, so they didn’t get enough last night and they’re going to hijack another thread today. See ya.
ET — please send me your snail mail address to ctto AT indy DOT net so that I can send you a CD with 2 different recordings of Richter doing Op.111, recorded 30 years apart …
Heartsick.
DEFJEF — see comment # 161 above
I remember wondering in the 1990’s what the Republicans would run on now that communist fear mongering was no longer an option. Culture war seemed quite thin. As I watched the events of 9/11 unfold on television I remember thinking how they were now set for decades.
With all due respect *ilson… I don’t understand moderation… except in the case of disruption and insulting comments. But thanks for trying.
*ilson46201 @ 173
wow!
I’ll do that. Been thinking about that since you told me about their existence. I then looked bittorrent up at wiki, which somehow made me feel very sleepy after about 600 words.
We’ll do a CD trade. I’ll send you a collection of my stuff.
He isn’t really as bad as Phelps, is he?
EvilDrPuma @ 172
I know ‘IT’ hurts…but the pain fades: http://www.learningandteaching…..onance.htm
Jef – it was pointed out, over and over again, that there was a time and place for the conspiracy discussion, and that that thread – and now this thread – was neither. Rather than accept that, there was an ongoing effort to ignore the request, and to, in essence, interrupt the discussion with what tom wanted to talk about.
We have no ownership interest in the blog, so if you – or anyone else – want to get into a deeper discussion on a subject that others are not interested in having, you can exchange e-mails and have at it.
Or, you can start your own blog and make your own rules and discuss whatever you want with whomever you want. And you can understand that the constant presence of those who never want to talk about the topic at hand are as rude as if they had plopped down with a group of people in a restaurant and kept insisting that the group change the subject.
I was not moderating last night – some computer issues at home were getting in the way. Those who made the decision to pull the comments and eventually close down the thread did so only after those who were asked to defer the discussion refused to do so. It would be no different than being asked to leave a table in a restaurant after repeated requests to stop bothering people.
It’s not about censorship, Jef, it’s really about manners and consideration.
I received this in my mailbox overnight from an improbably named Scots poet, Tina Louise:
http://www.armsagainstwar.info
http://www.tinalouise.co.uk
REMEMBERING WHY…
Beamed images screened screamed
Into warm hearts and homes
Shocked stunned toned voices tweak
Peak emotional reach
Breach wisdom and sense
Incense fear engage in high gear
Smear death destruction indignation
Brandish propogand-ish
Docu-dramatic ambushes
On every station ruthless invasion
Justified by 3000 who died
Tragically in seas of ash as we
Disbelieved the TV flashes
Of hopeless souls plummeting
Tumbling rag dolling through air
Stairs choked with death and despair
In waiting
Waiting desperate breath abating
Last gasps drowned in tumble down
Footprint filling buildings spilling
Down down down
Drowning reality shrouding
Normality in veils of grey ashen
Mourning gowns
Town morphed changed forever
Never to return
Burned by indignation
Stammering staggering nation looks up
Struck dumb seeking wisdom
Finds only inept incompetent opportunistic
Leaders crying freedom envy brought this
Abyss of hell and carnage
Box cutting knife wielding plane flying bandits
Stripped America of her confidence
Suspended freedom and nonchalance
Brought about intolerance of aliens
Strangers and muslims
Excused her leaders intrusions
Into any place
Slaughter wrought to compensate
Satiate the sadness
Introduce the madness of insatiable desire
Fire of redemption burning other nations
Other 3000’s brought down time and time again
Sacrifice without dividend
Solution elusive illusion
All means and no end
War without end
War without end
War without and within
froggermarch #62,
You reference the AUMF for Afghanistan of 9/14/01. The AUMF for Iraq of 10/11/02 states
It has the same Wars Powers limitations as the previous AUMF.
alittlemusicalityplease @
166
I can’t speak for anyone else, but demorallized as I am, I’m not in any danger of being hornschwaggled by the sub-human motherfuckers in the White House.
But I see a major republican victory in November…and in 2008…because it appears progressives are not willing to fight hard enough. :(
urban pirate @ 29
I’m so sorry. I watched my brother-in-law struggle after his traumatic experience (recounted what happened to him on a previous thread) for at least a year. He did go to the counseling that was provided (how do you get images of people jumping out of your head?). And his family was traumatized – including his pre-schoolers. When he went back to work at the WFC, my sister had anxiety attacks every day – particularly because he took the subway.
Every time BushCo/Rove jerks people around using the “terror card” so they can win elections – they are not just terrorizing the general American population – they are inflicting indescribable pain and suffering on all who were directly impacted – as well as their families. For that alone they should should be run out of town on a rail.
It’s not a coincidence that 80% of NYC residents voted for Kerry in 2004.
Words cannot describe how disgusted I am with the opportunistic cowards who are running our government right now. They appear incapable of having any compassion for anyone – our military & their families – people who were directly or even indirectly impacted by 9/11.
I hope there will be a day of reckoning.
DefJef, I have generally enjoyed your input to this forum. With all due respect, your commentary today, exemplified by your 185, sounds like a petulant child whining to his mommy because his brother started it.
Defjef, to me, you both were rude. But you continue to be rude and to complain about being told to take your rudeness elsewhere if you couldn’t be polite to the rest of us. The moderators are within the rules to delete your posts.
If you want to push your theories, as they have said several times, start your own blog.
http://www.driftglass.com
AZ at 9. Seger wrote the song, but the words are from Ecleasties (SP?) It is the book that gets me through most of my days….I, unlike others, do not interpret it as a depressing book. No book that warns me, in part “teach me to number my days” or “And yet, returning, I saw that the race was not to the swift, nor the contest to the strong, but that time and chance happeneth to all men,” can be depressing. And I am not a religous man, yet I read that almost every week.
Thanks Dab.
OT – From myleftnutmeg
“A couple of people close
to the lieberman campaign told me Liebermans internals are showing him down by “a couple”.
The trend is intact as every poll has shown.The Lieberman camps product can not be sold.
I expect Schlesingers numbers to start rising to double digits soon.
——————————————————————————–
by: ctkeith @ Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 08:29:09 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
I’m looking at another one that has Lamont up
Lamont (D) 50.2%
Schlesinger (R) 2.0%
Lieberman (CfL) 46.7%
MoE 1.3%
Still verifying whether these are real numbers or not though.
Join the Nedheads at YouTube.”
kimster @
41
That was one of the lovliest gestures I recall from that week. I wanted to thank them personally.