
To me, the most disturbing thing about 9/11 is that it has made us into a republic of fear. There was a time in the world when Americans were known for our courage, originality, and daring. That’s not true anymore. Now were are known for living behind the high walls of our nation of privilege and sending our poorest young men and women out to kill other poor people overseas.
Nice.
We are officially the biggest crybaby country on the planet.
(And who better to carry that message to the world than our own Ambassador Squeakywheel, John Bolton, Mr. World’s Shortest High Horse? Everything that’s wrong with US foreign policy is embodied in that angry little bowling-pin of a man. I hope that it’s true that his nomination for a second term has been scrubbed.)
But that’s not what I came here to talk about tonight. I came here to talk about fear and the cynical manipulation of it, and to point out how much our national soul has been eroded away in the last five years. Let’s go first to the ever-formidable James Wolcott:
Even if The Path to 9/11 were politically pure, its raison d’etre would be suspect. How many times and how many ways must the adrenaline be pumped, the tragedy replayed, and the suffering exploited? The fall of the towers has become a ritual fetish, an annual haunting, that doesn’t exorcise fear, but replenishes it.
"What has changed, grotesquely, is the aftershock," Simon Jenkins writes in The Guardian, delivering a splash of cold reality. "Terrorism is 10% bang and 90% an echo effect composed of media hysteria, political overkill and kneejerk executive action, usually retribution against some wider group treated as collectively responsible. This response has become 24-hour, seven-day-a-week amplification by the new politico-media complex, especially shrill where the dead are white people. It is this that puts global terror into the bang. While we take ever more extravagant steps to ward off the bangs, we do the opposite with the terrorist aftershock. We turn up its volume. We seem to wallow in fear."
(I strongly recommend that Simon Jenkins article, by the way.)
Every time the Bush administration snatches away another piece of your privacy, the terrorists win again. If Osama Bin Laden’s goal was to fragment our society and force us to live in fear, then that’s the only Mission that’s been Accomplished in the Great War on Terror.
When will we have won the War on Terror? When the government can peer into the living rooms of every person on the planet? Because that is what it will take to stop all the terrorists in the world. The whole hallmark of terrorists is that they work outside of governmental systems. There could be terrorists anywhere. They are secretive. They are largely invisible until they strike, which is why they are only defeatable through the efforts of law enforcement. You cannot fight terrorists with the military. Armies are made to fight other armies. We are seeing the futility of fighting terrorists with the military playing out every day in the horrors of Fallujah, Kabul, and Tyre. Thousands of civilians die while the actual perpetrators melt into the scenery and regroup elsewhere.
But that doesn’t suit the NeoCon sense of theater. They have to bring mighty armies to bear, spend lavishly in blood and treasure, and (most importantly of all) turn a profit in the process.
And that is the disgrace our nation will bear well into the rest of this century. When faced with extraordinary circumstances, we responded in a deeply unextraordinary, C-student way.
Salon editor Joan Walsh says in her essay "What We Lost":
The number of Americans who died that day at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and in Shanksville, Pa. — 2,873 — has been surpassed by the number of American soldiers who’ve died in the so-called global war on terror, the vast majority — almost 2,700 — killed on the utterly unrelated battleground in Iraq. Add in almost 30,000 U.S. military casualties and a reported 46,307 dead Iraqi civilians, according to Iraq Body Count, and the tragedy is staggering — more than we, or the Iraqi people, should have had to bear. The quick victory in the Afghan war against the Taliban, which had broad national and global support, now seems on the verge of being reversed; every week brings more killing, more repression. This week alone the New York Times reported that the Afghan city known as Little America is now the capital of Taliban resurgence and opium production. Global sympathy in the wake of the attack has turned to global distrust and disdain.
That’s something that daily fills me with dismay. There was a moment there after the attacks in 2001 when the whole world was united together. And the Bush administration squandered that like a drunk with his first paycheck.
This is from an essay I recorded on Friday for the State Roots Project:
The thing that I think most of us forget is the days immediately after, the three or four days when everything stopped. Businesses closed. Flights were grounded. People stayed at home with their families as we all struggled to come to terms with what had just happened. "We’re All Americans Now" read a headline in the French newspaper Le Monde, and for a few days, we were. For just those three days, the world drew back in horror from the smoking holes in the ground in Pennsylvania, New York City, and Washington, and we were all united in the conviction that this must never happen again.
And I miss those three days. Not for the horror and shock, but for the peace. For that short amount of time, everything was silent, and for a breathless moment, I believed that maybe now the US government would drop its deadly myopia concerning world events and see that everything we have done in the Middle East for the last half-century had brought this to pass. I had glorious visions of a world united to overcome the kind of brutality and rage that had been unleashed upon my country on Tuesday, September the 11th, 2001.
Back to Joan Walsh:
Since that time, though, we’ve seen hubris beyond imagination. We’ve watched an unbridled executive-branch power grab, warrantless wiretaps, the curtailing of privacy rights; a pervasive smog of secrecy descended to obscure our government. Outrage about torture, rendition and secret prisons here and abroad is dismissed with a flippant "We don’t torture" from the president. And all of it has been shellacked with an ugly culture of bullying in which dissent equals treason, shamelessly, five years after the attack. Last week it was Donald Rumsfeld comparing war critics to people who appeased Hitler; this week we had Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice saying they’re the sort who would have ended the Civil War early and let the South keep its slaves. Their intimidation is meant to say that the very freedoms worth fighting for — the right to dissent, the right to question our government — might have to be abridged while we fight. Politically, that truly is more than we can bear.
Still, we’ve seen nothing so brazen as the president’s "war on terror" victory lap this 9/11 anniversary week, three speeches to tell us he’s made us safer though there’s still more to be done, and pay no attention to the carnage in Iraq. Bush’s 2006 anniversary shtick is an eerie inversion of his first anniversary shtick in 2002, another election year, when he used the sad occasion as a platform to sell the Iraq war. Back then, you’ll recall, he’d changed the subject from Osama bin Laden to Saddam Hussein at least partly because we’d blown our chance to capture the al-Qaida leader at the end of 2001.
In 2001, we lost nearly 3000 Americans to a vicious attack by an extremist group. That same year, we lost a chunk of our national character. Part of what made our democracy great was the understanding that freedom takes some courage. In a free country, it’s more likely that bad things will happen. It’s one of the risks we take in not offering up our privacy and autonomy unconditionally to an all-powerful Authority.
Republicans hate us for our freedom. They pose a direct and immediate threat to our way of life. Fight back against the fear-mongering. Be brave like a real American.
We will not forget.
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Gentlemen, come in. I hope you find the place to your liking. A little noisy outside, I know. Sometimes it gets a little noisy inside our own heads, don’t you agree? Ha ha!
Millineryman, a double for you. Neat. Please, make yourself comfortable on the divan by the fire. Cigarette? No?
twolf, old boy. Another double? But of course. Shall I put another log on the fire?
And for me? A lovely gin and tonic, extra lime. So refreshing! So civilized!
Relax, gentlemen, relax! “The world is so full of a number of things, I’m certain we should all be as happy as kings!”
:’(
Hi, Trex!
Fitz!
Ned
Tommy Yum got zero!
Roots! and a shot of Jameson.
Hey, TRex!
Hi Tommy, hi twolf1
Tommy Yum, are chicks allowed in here?
Nina Hagen!
It’s a great album too.
hi OldCoastie, how goes it?
Couldn’t get this on the last thread:
Cozumel @ 266
Disagree, Coz. While there where large chunks of unexceptionable scenes, I caught plenty of catapulting of right wing propoganda, both blatant and sneaky. Portraying anyone associated with the Clinton administration in a dithering, weak light. Blaming the Lewinski scandal for Clinton’s supposed lack of attention to Bin Laden. Blaming the constitution for the inability to pursue leads. I can hardly wait to see the heroic Bush administration tomorrow (except for Condi, who is on their shit list.)
twolf1 @
6
yeah twolf1, he did. But, he did offer you another libation and a crackling fire…
To all the conspiracy theorists:
Who gives a mongoose’s ass how the towers came down…They came down.
And all the evil that we rail against and oppose stems from that day.
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and all their busy little helpers would never have been able to push the anti-democratic shitgenda that they have without the mighty push provided from the collapse of the WTCs.
So fuck Disney. Fuck American Broadcasting Companies, Inc..
And fuck George Walker Bush, his old-money piece-of-shit family, his minions and the chickenshit phony-tough hobbyhorses they rode in on.
Jameson’s, of course ES. My pleasure.
op99 @ 8
But of course! Please! I shall soften the lights. Care for a brandy, or perhaps some Amantillado?
hi TRex, you got here just in time, when you step out to the store tonight, be sure to bring back something nice for the moderators who have had a difficult evening … most of us appreciate that theirs is largely a thankless and difficult task. Thanks, mods!
AirportCat @ 16
The mods may need some head-on to apply directly to their collective forehead.
“To me, the most disturbing thing about 9/11 is that it has made us into a republic of fear.”
And what are we so afraid of?
A nuclear superpower?
Tsunamis?
Earthquakes?
Global warming?
No, we are scared to death of a few thousand essentially stateless actors led by people who live in caves who got lucky with a daring kamikaze attack. Criminals.
tommy yum @ 16
Oh, the Ladies’ Man!
I’m afraid *ilson went down with the ship.
it’s goin’, twolf – I’ll take a brandy, please…
Goodness, what did I miss? Something ugly in the last thread?
I think the Dem’s oughta run against the Republicans as the TPP (Terrified Pussy Party).
Ah, Late Nite at last! Set me up, me boyos, scotch on the rocks. Think “Dionne quintuplets.”
Then lets send out the St. Bernard out with his wee cask to revive him, tommy yum!
TRex @ 23
Yup. But let’s leave that where it belongs. (Flushes.)
I peeked for a moment on the last thread but then I went away… *ilson went down with the ship?!? Poor *ilson!
Koppel’s Discovery piece is very very good…
OC, I could scarcely think of anything that would give me more pleasure than to give you a brandy.
Now we shall all sit comfortably and resume our old mannered intimacy. The smell of burning servers is most disagreeable.
TRex @ 24
uh – lotta grief, lotta raw nerves… really, you don’t want to know…
Whew! Thank you, Trex, and thank you mods. Here’s to Late Nite (raising glass).
Latest WSJ/Zogby’s up for those inclined to get a jump on tomorrow’s punditry:
http://online.wsj.com/public/r…..mp;hasAd=1
Good news: Ned’s in a virtual tie with RG.
Needs work: GOP holds onto the Senate.
I’ll have a Bailey’s on ice, please.
yeah, i see the comments on the last thread are officially closed
no Tommy, it’s not a pleasant smell…
op99 #12
That one is especially egregious because Clinton still somehow managed to beat the crap out of the Republicans in the Congress over and over again –even while he was “distracted”.
As for this thread, it may be lighter on the snark than some of TRex’s offerings, but my compliments on the sentiment. Reminds me of something an old Bene Gesserit once said to me.
TRex, have a seat. Let’s not think of the late unpleasantness. I’d prefer to reflect on your latest offering, and
why you hate Americahow we can make things right again.tommy, you’re the freakin’ best.
Cigars? anyone for cigars on the patio?
Here, relax to one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written…the goopers will still be there tomorrow and we can deal with them then :)
Click Me!
Then Click Me, I’m Part 2!!
I closed out the last thread *executive decision*, but it took a while, being as the FDL server seems to be sluggish and I am on dial-up.
I thought that the closing comments were quite wonderful. Alka-selzer on the rocks, please.
Margot @ 32
Very nice! I hope the dark wood panelling is to everyone’s liking. Perhaps, when I’m a little tipsy, I shall relate a ghost story or two.
Well said, Trex.
I listened to the Ted Koppel The Price of Security Town Hall and wanted to smack the Bushco cowering shits who kept saying the only civil right that mattered was the right to live.
It makes me so pissed off to hear these cravens. Did Patrick Henry say “Give me Liberty or life under a police state if that’s too much to ask for”?
I don’t remember who, but someone thankfully came back with the Ben Franklin quote about those who would give up a little essential liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Repeat after me…. Give me Liberty or Give me Death!.
VG, can I offer to plump your pillow? Need anything? Your poor fingers must be exhausted.
A nice port, please, and keep it coming.
I haven’t felt up to commenting on any of the previous threads today. (And not much yesterday, though Pull Up A Chair made me wish I’d been up early enough.) Thank god for late night.
Sailor Jerry Rum anyone?
My Danish great aunt, who I once had the pleasure to meet, smoked ladies’ cigars. Apparently this is not unheard of in Denmark. Please, get me a ladies’ cigar.
tommy yum @ 43
Now I am wide awake and would very much like a brandy, thank you.
Now that ABC has aired that right-wing factually wrong b-o-o-o-ring diatribe against Clenis – can we boycott ABC/Disney now?
I had an idea that maybe the liberal/progressive blogs could co-ordinate a combined post announcing a boycott? It could link to a simple website where people can sign in to protest, and provides info on what not to buy and who to contact to complain.
Now that the blogs are getting some media attention – I think it might be a nice way to show some coordination. After the global post – every website could sport an icon with a clickable link to the boycott website.
Our perverted MSM has no concept of things like public duty or journalistic integrity – but they do understand money.
Just an idea ….
twolf1 @ 34
It couldn’t happen fast enough. It is discordant and disappointing to see so many comments that substituted supposition for conclusion. The mods were by and large quite tolerant in spite of a lot of provocation.
Valley Girl @ 41
VG! Some nerve tonic and a shoulder rub for you! My dear, my dear! How you have suffered! A cheer for our beleaguered mod!
Thanks tommy yum, after that last bit of maddness I may start smoking again.
I say cheers to VG and ilison for their commendable work. As I raise my double.
And in the spirit of courage, originality, and daring, blogs, bloggers, A 60 ft Dinosaur, and the people who support them, will lead the fight back, set the standard high, and demonstarte that you can’t keep good people, and the truth down.
TRex -
EXCELLENT characterization! whodda thunk the pugs were so enthralled with the dramatic arts?
HeirofPatriots @ 44
I think Feingold quoted Patrick Henry in a somewhat recent exchange in the Judiciary committee.
VG– I love those small little cigars and will have one as well, tak!
Valley Girl @ 42
Speaking of the sluggish server, I was having a problem for a while there where Anne’s name and email address were coming up in my “Leave a Reply” settings. I assume there was some kind of connection, but I’m an end user, so I have no idea what it might be. (Anne, if you’re reading, I’ve done my level best to ignore the information.)
tommy yum @ 43
The Ghost of Stephen Foster, perhaps? *g*
Suzanne- actually *ilson did most of the slogging, as I was double-timing on the earlier *wimmen* thread and missed a lot. I don’t know if *ilson would like to have his pillows plumped, but sounds good to me.
Now, friends, you may all help yourselves.
How odd, you must think, to find this snug behind the false door! And yet, all our needs are virtually met. Ladies cigars? Only the finest! Port? I tremble to even think of dusting off the bottle.
I shall enjoy a cigarette on the patio, and admire the waving oleander and scented jasmine.
VG and *ilson — thanks for the work you did/do. The last thread was a bit too much for me, don’t know how you do it.
Hugh @ 51
I have a feeling they were too busy reading and deleting infringing comments to craft nicely worded STFU comments.
Kurt @ 41
Ahh, Chopin ballades. My fave is #1 in G minor.
A ghost story! I’ll get my shawl…brrr.
I missed the last thread, and that sounds like a good thing. I’m watching Koppel too.
Trex, you have such a way with words!
That is the absolute best description I’ve ever heard about him.
And than you go and top yourself.
That is the thought that’ll be in my head as I drift off to sleep tonight. Thank you.
Wine anyone? I’ve got a lovely bottle of zinfandel here.
A toast to Simon Jenkins! I thought I saw a tray of cucumber by the coat check.
The Democrats need to get on the themes that Trex talks about, pronto. This kind of discussion of both terrorism, courage and national greatness are exactly the kind of thing that allow the Dems to win back some of the ethos they’ve lost with avg voters, undercut the tactic of defining Dems as being on a range running from emasculated thru faggot to woman. And it will really piss Bush off.
ooo! we are having cucumber sandwiches with cream cheese and no crust again tonight? Excellent!
DrPuma, dear fellow: sit down. That whir and click you hear is only the sound of the moth, straining to be burned by the light. We can do nothing for him, old thing!
sorry for flaking out for the last 23 minutes. in the midst of the previous thread mayhem, my cable TCP/IP cut off (for maintenance, I suppose). It did give me some time out to cool off…
Browner, your cab is waiting outside.
*ilson! YOU’RE ALIVE!!
Watching PT9/11 now. Just got through the first hour. It wasn’t easy. Darling wife refuses to watch, and is switching between CBS and Discovery. Lucky girl.
The whole thing is oddly paced, jumbled and miscut. The camerawork emphasises extreme close ups, you almost never see a whole head. It gets to you after a while, and not pleasantly. Looks like a film school project by someone who has not developed their own style, but is aping others to ill effect.
Politically it gets its digs in at civil liberties and due process as the real evils facing this country. Typical right wing fascist crap. It’s thrown in in such a silly predicatablle way I don’t think the effect is worse than watching Law and Order, say, or any of the crap cop shows or Stallone movies, for that matter.
The sacrifices I make for my beliefs! Otherwise I’d turn this piece of drek off in an instant.
*ilson and Valley Girl, thank you for mending the tatters of that last thread. You are thimblerrrrific.
*ilson! The man of the hour! I commend you, as do we all! Sit yourself, relax! What may I bring you?
Let me take your jacket. It’s smoldering a little. No worries.
R. Burner #62,
911 was carried out by Martians. The ‘93 attack was by Saturnians. Everyone knows this. Sheesh!
Whew…it’s nice to be back among friends. Just as it started to get truly silly, my connection went bonkers.
Don’t get up Tommy, I’ll help myself. Has *ilson had anything yet?
*ILSON!!
*smooch!*
Tommy’s tending the bar. What shall I ask him to get you?
its bad enuff to feed a troll but quoting its foulness in its entirety is kinda dumb, dontcha think?
Ah *ilson…there you are. What can I get you?
If Scholastic wants to share something with highschoolers, Koppel’s documentary would be my suggestion.
angie @ 56
They’re called blunts. ;)
Redshift @ 58
Or just A Christmas Carol would be fine. Especially if you can do Dick Cheney as Scrooge and have him clutch his chest and keel over the second Marley does the doorknob trick.
Morris – you think anyone would sit thru the crapumentary if they weren’t examining it for accuracy?
(you are a brave, brave man)
No one has asked for champagne and more’s the pity! TRex, I pray a bon vivant like yourself would join me in a glass. Finest kind, you know.
I’ll have a sip or two of zin, and I’ve brought my lighter for VG and angie for their smart little cigars on the patio. It’s a lovely night in Richmond, VA. (The Zogby poll shows Webb up by 10 or 11; the local poll shows him behind by 4 and therefore a toss-up with the m.o.e.) Tomorrow, the bells will chime at school at three intervals. That will be my time to remember and mourn.
at this point, I’m going to need two Cosmos (I’m such a fag, dontcha know)
Urban Pirate @ 85
ok, I will have a blunt, tak! ;)
Usually, there is no such thing as OT (off topic) for Late Nite, but it has been a wearing week, and I don’t want to see the discussion from the last thread drag on here. If anyone sees signs of that, please don’t feed. Another time, another place. Let’s just kick back and enjoy Late Nite, I say.
*ilson46201 @ 90
We don’t judge. We just *slide* *thump*
Everclear and rainwater, please.
;>)
Morris Sheppard, it does get more watchable, but they never overcome the problem of having to cram to many dramatis personae into the time allotted, and there is still way too much cutting back and forth among them all. Purty tedious.
OldCoastie @ 84
Not brave. Foolishly stubborn. BTW just saw first scene that says if only we could torture we could get so much more information!
*ilson, so glad you were able to come back.
Thanks so much to you and Valley Girl for moderating.
darkblack @ 94
You bounder! I have the mason jar right here. Reliable source.
Made it through 75 minutes of PT9/11 and then gave up on it. Boredom.
Brainwashing received: search warrants are evil.
Hey, someone on DU posted this website as a nice start to the Disney boycott. Love the picture of Mickey, although Atta in mouse ears is still my favorite.
http://udpc.org/boycottdisney/index.html
Incoming phone call. Back in a bit.
Speaking of ringing hollow, may I have some champagne, please? I feel a draft. I think I’ll close the door.
I called up DirecTV tonight and told them that I either wanted a programming package that didn’t include any Disney networks (ABC, ESPN, Disney, etc.) or that I wanted to cancel my account.
When they transferred me to the “Account Saves” department, they said that they couldn’t offer a programming package w/o Disney, but offered me the standard “we’ll give you $10 off your subscription fee per month for the next 12 months.” I took the deal and then asked the rep to note on my account that I would be calling back in 12 months to renew this since I would no longer pay for any Disney programming.
Now, if a few hundred thousand people do the same thing, that might put enough of a dent in News Corp.’s revenue that they might have to go complain to Disney (or offer a Disney-free package, which I suspect that their programming contract w/ Disney prohibits them from doing).
all these hippie tree-huggers are going to be burning up all the Everclear in their organic Volvos instead of gasoline …
Cherry Heering please.
Just me and my mascara here, reporting from Sweden.
One small victory for womankind…
Such marvelous company! What lovely people! If I turn my back, for only a moment, it will be to wipe the tear from my eye.
You are gracious, Dana and you bring such glad tidings, too!
woo hoo– GO Webb!
I love all of the ballades, but #4 is the one that brings me nearly to tears everytime I hear it hehe.
I’m questing now for some of the less often played Polonaises.
Morris Sheppard @ 96
Oh, yeah, there’s always a big payoff for leaping headfirst into that abyss.
*ilson- to which Cosmos are you referring? Suzanne offered to plump my pillows earlier, but as nice as the offer is, you did the yeoman’s duty on the last thread, and probably need to have your pillows plumped. What say you?
*ilson46201 @ 105
what in the world is everclear?
Me, I think I’ll get out the last of the Highland Park.
meta, avail yourself to the roaring fire. A fluted glass for you.
IIRC the full quote of Henry’s starts:
“Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may choose, but as for me ….”
tommy yum @ 95
It had better be reliable. I read that there was some bad moonshine going around, several people killed drinking it. And you’d better hide those blunts if Christy comes around, she has no tolerance for that sort of thing. Legal drugs only, kids!
darkblack! What are you up to? These days are rich with imagery!
yeah, angie, and Webb told Allen that if wants some Reagan affirmation he can go out and find him some. *g*
Hi egregious. I had to take your name in vain while (semi) live blogging PT911.
TRex has the humor and light touch needed after the last threads flame-out.
I’m having a Guinness, so I’m chill (don’t delete me!)
so on topic, I’m just going to gently suggest that mass deletions, thread closing, and “STFU”s from *admins resemble the actions of our opponents, those who let fear dominate their thought processes, more than they resemble the actions of someone with facts and reason on their side.
OldCoastie @ 108
151 proof rum. Stay away.
EvilDrPuma @ 108
omigod Valley Girl is laughing out loud.
there really ARE cigars called “blunts”
*ilson, glad to see you made it! I plumped all the mod pillows as I was conveying my earlier thanks for a job well done.
FLOOR BY FLOOR, BEAM BY BEAM, SOUL BY SOUL …..
wowzers! Cherry Heering — I haven’t had that for years !
My pillows usually do need plumping because my heavy pitbabies love to sleep on pillows. Sometimes they get excited and have pillow fights while means a pillow gets destroyed — I have learned to avoid buying feather pillows …
AirportCat @ 115
Of course, of course! Let the babies have their bottle! I only stock the very best, you know.
151 proof!?! bet that would make the Volvo go fast…
G’night, my pups, be excellent to each other.
Valley Girl @ 121
Like Doug Piranha, I am not afraid to use sarcasm. Cheers.
TRex:
Exactly right! The war was never for reasons like WMDs, transplanting democracy or fight of terrorism. It is first and foremost a money making enterprise, funneling taxpayer money to Haliburton and defense contractors. The 2700 death soldiers are just collateral damage – a number if you will.
*ilson46201 @ 101
Shave their heads, hide their Birkenstocks, and a little lye soap for the rank patchouli odor…Instant rejoining of the human race.
As for using Luxco’s finest to power their schmoomobiles…Unacceptable.
;>)
op99 @ 125
… and Party On, Dudes!
Demerara Rum is the 151 proof stuff … Everclear is basically pure grain alcohol (ethanol)
night, op… sleep well
spork the III @ 118
May I say that STFU was entirely warranted. Yes, I said that to someone who had no good intentions. As was the thread closing. Get a grip, man. You ain’t been here as long as I have and you ain’t seen what I seen, so may I say, very politely, STFU on that issue? Apart from that, drinks are on the house.
*ilson46201 @ 130
Correct: it’s the water-ethanol azeotrope, 95% ethanol (190 proof).
Anybody want toast?
OldCoastie @
108
Everclear is turpentine sold for human consumption. Favored by rural high school delinquents and vocational students. (I know this from experience.) I had my first and only blackout while drinking Everclear. Apparently, I tried to talk a bunch of people into stripping and swinging from a rope into the river in the middle of the night. Wheeee!
Dana @ 117
Wadhams surely seems like a desperado messing with Missus Reagan and making her attack…
heeheehee.
everclear
190 proof or 151 proof
VG, my dear: would you care to dance? Call the tune, I’ll follow!
VG – how ’bout I refill your glass… and here’s a pillow for your feet!
*ilson46201 @ 132
Which is 190 proof?
(Quickly draining the fifth scotch-on-the-rocks) Bedtime. Don’t do anything I’d like to be doing.
I think we could all use some swinging naked from a rope tonight…
Isn’t Everclear what Purplepassion is made with? I had some rough mornings in college after a night of Purple passion.
meta @ 113
I was away from computers and any source of reliable news for a few days, Meta….Although I’d rather be indulging in some sort of ‘rural high school delinquency’.
;>)
Everclear is also the name of some musical group favored by the kids today…
Airport Cat,
You got in ahead of me and I couldn’t remember azeotrope either. Too long ago and far away.
good night, Evil – we’ll behave (well, maybe)
You guys are by the way a bad or possibly good influence since you have me sipping a porto. I drink alcohol about twice a year. One more to go.
Kurt @
41
I have removed ABC from my channels (don’t get Disney or they would be gone too).
I refuse to be afraid!
I’m making a nice pot of hot Chamomile tea. Anyone want a cup?
tommy yum @ 140
That is the most wonderful offer I have had in a very long time. I love to dance. Haven’t had the occasion lately. I choose “Louie Louie”, just for starters.
Mornin’.
Time to go to work.
Feel free to use my name often when referring to political events.
I don’t think Nancy even saw the ad, angie. The Republicans ignore her over stem cell research, but trot her bony butt out to decry an ad that is in context and true. Webb is getting out in front of the attacks sure to come from Allen. I’d love to see an ad that shows two pictures: Allen riding his painted pony in the parade last week, and Webb saying good-bye to his son. Webb’s ad is targeted at the military populations, mostly.
darkblack @
14
absolutely, darkblack!
pnac had a plan, and it was dependent on those towers coming down. it doesn’t matter if they were responsible; they wanted it to happen.
I have a small bottle of everclear.. I use it to make Homeopathic remedies. I have never had the desire to drink it. Honestly.
Except in a remedy , of course.
PS. ABC is removed from my DISH.
Now that the Monday WaPo is up, Laura Rozen at War and Piece found this article about CIA spooks, et al, buying liability insurance for some of their more exotic person-to-person assignments:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..286_2.html
However, what caught my eye is a different paragraph than Laura chose to emphasize (sorry, if I add that link, it’ll be more work for the mods) but which might have a wee bit o’ relevance to PT9/11:
Please feel free to keep the tinfoil wrapped securely around the cocktail weenies, but I’d forgotten all about the results of this investigation and how nobody AFAIK ever faced disciplinary action as a result.
tommy yum, a shot of Jameson’s please. No ice, that’s *shudder* not done, but a shot of water on the side is okay.
I spent the evening catching up to ‘Eureka’ – two weeks behind. Still have no clue where an episode is going to end up, or where the entire series is going. Nice change from most shows.
I came in on the last thread after it was closed, but I thank *ilson and VG for weeding out the conspiracy theorists.
sandlin, could everclear in your remedy recipes get us through the next couple of years?
Now were are known for living
“Louie Louie!” How enchanting! If pleasure guaranteed longevity I would be immortal!
Alas, I too must retire after that dance. Last one out get the lights. Damp the fire and leave everything else. I’ll tidy in the morning.
Good night and take heart! We will prevail.
I toast all the people who gather here to see, listen, learn, play, laugh, cry, and eat. Cheers to Chopin in G Minor, and to cozy fires by the lake.
Louie, Louie!
Hugh,
Everclear is 190 proof. I once topped of an already powerful “spodie” drink with it once and damn near went insane. It was the only time I have ever been an aggressive drunk, and I hated it. It is illegal except for Alaska and Montanna, or that’s the “urban myth” at any rate. It’s legal there supposedly to unfreeze engines, which is probably true.
Me, I’ll stick to those “blunt” thingies, a little more relaxing. :)
Raoul
EvilDrPuma @ 106
BTW, fascinating discussion on Bob Edwards Weekend today with the author of a book on CIA psychological torture techniques. He talked about how torture is very strange; even though interrogators who don’t use it (like FBI and Guantanamo) know full well it doesn’t work, people in the organizations that try it become convinced that it does, and a culture of defending it and hiding it develops. I don’t know if it’s online, but catch it if you can.
…And even the praiseworthy *ilson didn’t catch my Jack D. Ripper inference…Tsk tsk
;>)
From a new Newsweek article on troop morale in Iraq.
Hugh @ 146
Yah, my head is still stuffed with all kindsa junk from so many years of school … like if you want (close to) 100% ethanol you have to distill it with something like benzene (to get rid of the water) and after that it’s not fit for drinking anyhow. I think they call it “technical” ethanol, although my memory of these things is not what it used to be. Maybe VG would know, she probably had to take a lot of organic chemistry.
rcauthen @ 167
But I bet Dumsfeld has a really big yellow ribbon on his black sedan. He totally supports the troops.
Vgirl @ 132
‘fraid I didn’t see whatever merited the “STFU” before it was deleted- I’m sure plenty of things did.
So, to clarify, the issue that burned down the last thread is officially verboten at FDL?
perhaps I’m fortunate to have a more freewheeling set of lefties in chicago who do not have areas of forbidden discussion.
al-Scooter — once again, let me apologize for deleting your comment. It was infelicitously phrased and made it seem cruel and heartless — that isnt your style — it could have fueled further flaming in the previous thread. I knew things were getting too crazy when even you had to be moderated …
“General Batguano, if that really is your name… if it’s found out that you’ve interupted a phone call to the POTUS you’ll be lucky to wear the uniform of a bloody bathroom attendant.”
At least now with our POTUS, Mandrake will just be told callously when he makes the call, “Well, you covered your ass!” :)
good night, Tommy – thank you for the hospitality…
Back.
Someone get me an iced coffee.
motherlowman @ 135
I recall being at a high school crew team party where they had made a “punch” by making Kool-Aid with Everclear instead of water. Even in high school, I had more sense than to touch that stuff.
Dana– the veto of stem cell research has me gnashing my teeth and was incredibly disrespectful to Nancy Reagan and every single person suffering here and everywhere.
Just yank all hope away seems to be another of the administration’s moral values.
My sis working with the Webb campaign up in NOVA said she heard that Patch Adams was protesting one of Allen’s appearances at a school and spoke of his racism and was handing out bananas!
Lovely chill cocktail party you have going here. Nice to wander in after a very long week and weekend. Such rosy cheeks and cheer in the faces of the usual suspects.
Nice sign-off by Koppel tonight, reminding us that the “safest” country in the world from terrorism is North Korea. Yes, have no civil liberties to lose in the first place, and you want lose ‘em. Why does Mickey hate America?
“I didn’t say Robert Iger was crazy, I said he was fucking Goofy!”
I need to find my Brady’s* … it’s in one of those boxes in storage….
See y’all tomorrow! I have to get up far too early.
*Brady’s Handbook of Materials. Information on the d**dest things, like tomato-seed oil.
Dana @ 158
Are you talking about the remedies or the everclear??
911 conspiracy theories are not officially verbotten but on the other hand, not encouraged either. the previous thread was not a good place to discuss it in depth but some folk who only ever come here to discuss 911 conspiracy stuff tried to force a discussion. That is verbotten, the forcing…
Spork—please don’t go there right now.
you take cream and sugar in that TRex?
just out of curiousity, *ilson, what are the rules of moderation here…?
i’m not quickly finding the ‘terms’ listed.
*ilson46201 @ 130
Actually, you’re right. Everclear is also 151 proof, I believe.
I think she means that the Everclear IS the remedy, at least that’s what I got.
Welcome back T-rex.
TRex @ 172
Iced coffee is for work tomorrow morning. Just leave mine in the thermos, I’ll get it in the morning. ‘Night.
Justsomeguy @ 100
Thank goodness somebody is doing this! I spent an hour on hold this morning with directv. Will try again tomorrow. We must get cable neutrality because “It’s not possible” is pure BS. It’s just not a law yet.
re: Louie, Louie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louie,_Louie
~~~It was banned on many radio stations and in many places in the United States, including Indiana, where it was personally banned by the Governor, Matthew Welsh, simply on the rumor alone, as practically no one could understand the actual lyrics. The Kingsmen and Ely protested, when asked, that the lyrics were sung more or less as Berry had written them, but this did not stop the controversy. Even the FBI became involved in the controversy – but concluded a 31-month investigation with a report that they were “unable to interpret any of the wording in the record” [1].
Oddly enough, the song does contain one possibly obscene moment that the FBI missed. Immediately before the second verse (approximately 54 seconds into the song), drummer Lynn Easton supposedly banged his sticks by accident and shouted “Fuck!”~~~
there are no rules of moderation — we make them up as we go along …
Raoul Duke @ 183
Then the answer is no. Better stock up on Xanax.
I think Iger and the folks at Disney are banking on this all blowing over. In a few weeks no one will remember Path to 911. I think they are wrong in this because they fail to recognize that the net and the blogosphere are in essence about memory. Like politicians and reporters before them, the business world has been slow to realize that the web contains a lot of information and bytes never die. It is all out there and there are tens of thousands of us to go through it and recall what they would rather forget.
The Disney brand has been tarnished by this and will remain tarnished. They can’t be for innocence and family values on the one hand and also play the role of partisan hitman on the other. Mickey, we’ve seen the gun and there’s video.
No, Everclear is definitely 190 or so proof, which is why it is not readily available. Bacardi has some of the most famous 151 rum, never heard of the other mentioned in the thread, but I’m not a big drinker anyway. Family issues and all that.
Raoul
this Jamie Goerlick (on Koppel’s show) – this is the first time I’ve listened to her… she’s seems very sensible and calm and smart… we need more people in government like her…
previous comment made speaking as a commenter who has been, imo, unfairly banned at tp for merely approaching the topic (my point is similar to darkblack’s — people are missing the importance of pnac by wrapping it in the conspiracy talk).
judd is a bit trigger happy over at tp, and he has been known to demonize the 9/11 conspiracy people from time to time… once tried to compare them to michelle malkin. that did not go over well.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 185
OG, Please don’t tell me Disney includes The Animal Planet??
tommy yum @
16
Oh, i bet you have a whole cask of that down in your cellar.
*ilson46201 @ 189
LOL
In the United States, Everclear is a brand of grain alcohol (ethanol), available at concentrations of 95% alcohol (190 proof) and 75.5% (151 proof).
-wikipedia
I though of a an allusion like that as well Lindy, but everone seemed a bit frazzled so I decided not too. Now you look smart and well read and I look like a dork.
Raoul
*ilson46201 @ 169
*ilson, please accept my apology for adding fuel to that fire. I was feeling very frustrated about that one particular sentiment that was expressed in the main post and subsequently amplified in comments, and I should’ve addressed my response more directly to the guest poster. You did the right thing.
Let’s have another drink. I’m buyin’.
Good job 2wolf, I didn’t realize they had a more diluted version, good catch.
Raoul
spork the III @ 168
I think you misunderstand. It’s not “verboten issues” that cause comments to be deleted here on FDL, it’s deliberately inflammatory language, disrespectful attitudes (or worse) toward other commenters and posters, etc.
Part of what makes FDL such a special community is the hard work of the moderators in these areas, which other sites might leave to a voluntary (and rarely effective) “please don’t feed the trolls — no really, please don’t feed the trolls.” And outside of trolls, shouting matches and flamewars really are destructive to communities. Having them shut down sometimes causes temporary disgruntlement, but fewer lasting scars.
100% ethanol I think can also be called denatured alcohol.
twolf1 @ 199
seems like that would not only make the Volvo go fast, but power up my jet pack as well!
also, hopefully people don’t think i’m trying to piggyback on t-rex’s success… it’s actually a moniker i’ve used for a while, short for ‘progressaurus rex’…
of course that’s the curse of a long name – you end up wanting to abbreviate it all the time.
everclear is 190 proof. is it true that it used to be floor cleaner (i.e. ‘everclean’?)
this whole evening has been wonderful. like a family at the table after thanksgiving dinner – getting into all kinds deepness. laughing, yelling, cryin’ and huggin’. love, love, love all yall. i’m here for the long haul. wherever it takes us.
p-rex @ 194
As E*T recently said, when some one was pointing out that Edward Teller was evil, “you haven’t been around here long, have you?” Please give it a rest. Not the time or the place. It has been a really really long week. Please don’t make me get out the STFU weapon, which I have never used before, except on the earlier thread. JUst kick back and have some fun Late NIte.
al-Scooter, I saw that article.
Rozen really has a great nose for news.
LindyH @ 194
Is that the same as an Armadillo??
OldCoastie @ 181
Just cream, thanks.
TRex @ 211
mm-k, coming right up!
Hugh @ 201
Back in the day, when vanity license plates were still a new phenomenon, I saw one that read:
C2H5OH
We all have our own respective passions, I guess.
Amantillado is a poe man’s drink.
if you want to see the sorry mess in a blog with no moderation whatsoever, checkout poor Joe Liebermans official blog. It was so horrendous he had to totally cut off all comments. UGLY. I must sheepishly admit I did contribute to its chaos…
I have been asked to establish a blog for a Congressperson. I argued against it successfully on the basis of the constant moderation that would be needed.
sorry valley girl,
it’s 3pm where i am (sydney australia), so i wasn’t exactly switched on to the late nite vibe.
i’ve been following fdl for a while now as a lurker… but thanks for the welcome.
sandlin @ 208
Uh, no. :) I was hoping for some guesses (as was Lindy I’m sure, but I shouldn’t speak/type for her).
Think gothic american writer, although that is really too easy of a clue, but it’s late.
Raoul
Hugh @ 212
It’ll make you wall-eyed drunk, too.
Damn you Hugh! *insert “the evil eye” here*
:)
Raoul
Hugh did come up with the “poe man’s drink!”
any super techie mac folks here? I made an image (os10.39) and cloned it onto another machine in my lab… everything is lovely, but (since I still run classic apps) “System” (in the 9 system folder) isn’t blessed…
tried and tried, but I’m out of ideas…(redid it a bunch of times, made a new image, copied just the… I don’t know what to call it – not a folder)
anyone? I need Kidpix!
Raoul Duke @ 170
Indeed, Duke
And now that I’m all ‘likkered up’… Sexy bidness time
I bid you all a good night until we next meet.
;>)
denatured alcohol deliberately isnt pure but contains something that makes it unusable to drink by humans. It can be used for industrial purposes but isnt taxed like potable ethanol …
Margot @ 206
Margot, she’s a gem! Her site’s right up near FDL on my Sage Feed list as a “must check”.
good luck w/ that OC. just hate to leave the fireside at this moment- but gotta actually drive for a half hour or so home. see ya in a bit.
DarkBlack, you can darken my blogospheric skies anytime. That link was kewl, what does the German mean (if you are still here)? If not, thanks for the shot. Tres cool.
Raoul
Don’t think so. All ESPN- ABC- LIFETIME- DISNEY and perhaps something else.
Hugh, You are a treasure.
I thought sandlin said that everclear was an ingredient in some remedies. (#155). Everclean, ever ready, evergreen–all good.
angie, good for your NOVA sister! I’m having a modest glass of chianti in her honor.
In his wildest dreams Osama bin Laden and his associates could never have hoped to be as deeply influential as they have been, I guess in their eyes they’ve been very successful. When they saw the twin towers collapse they must have thought their luck had now reached the limit. What they didn’t know was that ugly, opportunistic, small-minded men and woman were waiting to pick up where the rubble of the twin towers left off and continue the work of destroying us from within. Yes, we today truly have a formidable enemy who is out to destroy ‘our way of life’, the traitors within, the ugly, ugly prophesy of the far-right has become self-fulfilling. They knew all along what they were about and they are succeeding day after day after day, bit by bit: Hail to the Decider!
p-rex @ 215
p-rex- thanks- please stick around. People are really friendly and welcoming here. But, as I said, it has been a long week. An exceptionally long week. We have a few regular commenters (1 or 2?) from Oz (also NZ) and the perspectives they provide are always welcome. Sorry you caught me at a bad time.
This is so too the point. It is refreshing to read that others are thinking the same thing too.
As Benjamin Franklin was quoted, “Those who will trade freedom for security deserve neither.”
Quentin – obl and dubya… could there be a more perfect match? they serve each other so well…
OldCoastie @ 201
You have a jet pack? Wow!
Good evening to all. I’ve been lurking back here in the corner, probably nobody saw me come in. It certainly is pleasant here. Nice to see people peacefully enjoying each others’ company. I can’t stay much longer, it’s past bedtime. But Tommy, if you happened to have a Partagas, and perhaps a cold beer…
LindyH @ 232
Does it fold up into a briefcase like the Jetson’s car did?
LindyH – yup, flies me right over traffic… but, uh… it’s in the shop right now… yeah, that’s the ticket!
Good night, FDLer’s. Sweet dreams of peace and liberty and a Democratic congress to you all.
Ok all, nighty night :)
OldCoastie @ 232
LOL!
I’m going to share something with you guys.
I got a new Macbook and set my house up for wireless. I gave my old (and only slightly wonky) iBook to my old friend (since 1989) and next door neighbor, who has never had home internet before. She doesn’t make a whole lot of money so the notion of having her own computer was a hazy, far-off dream.
I’m letting her and her boyfriend piggyback on my wireless for free. I mean, why not?
Every time I walk by the wireless hub, I can see the light flickering. I called Robin (my neighbor) today and asked how it was going. She said, “We’re sleeping in shifts. We’ve both had so much stuff we’ve wanted to do on the computer that it may take a couple of years to catch up.”
It makes me happy that I could make them happy.
P-rex—here something that Pach wrote a while back that you might find helpful.
With little more than that to go on, I’ve watched *ilson & VG show amazing judgement and restraint while dealing with some folks who seem to think they can type whatever they want, whenever they want.
Hope you grow to like the place as much as the rest of us do.
p.s. p-rex – as Jane said so crisply to a commenter who was complaining about some lack of seriousness in a TRex late nite post: Late Nite is primarily a social thread established for the night owls. I guess she was thinking about our time zones only! ;)
So I had to send out some bills today – I’ve been emailing, phoning, FAXing all week. So I quit Safari, turn up stereo – Kate Bush, live Joni & James, Jimi from ‘67, Byrds, 10cc, Crowded House, Bowie, Buchanan (live from Ebbets Field ‘74), etc.
I come back in here and there’s black smoke rising from the joint!
I love you all, and the place smells of a meltdown. I’ve sat in for a few. If we didn’t care…
America – kill your fuckin’ teevee!
Lagavulin neat, for me.
TRex – get the black one? Great piece above. Just great!
Peace.
nice, TRex… very nice (always fun to share a computer)
how’s the MacBook? super cool but hotter than hell?
Good night, VG, and thanks for all you and other moderators do. It can never be said enough.
those were good clarifications- consider me clarified.
not as clear as everclear, mayber as clear as some fruit flavored vodka with little bits floating in it.
I wasn’t really “going there” I’m just unacquainted with having posts deleted like that.
indeed it is true that any community needs automatic sprinkler systems to put out flame wars.
as some recent polls indicate the controversial views I and Chicago Tom expressed are not any longer those of a tiny minority, so lets all work on not getting too schismatic as the Left is prone to do.
I have to bid a fond adiuex as well. Family Guy comes on at 11 (west coast) on Adult Swim, so I have to go, uhm, uhm, uhm, psychologically prepare myself. Yeah, yeah, that’s the ticket. :)
Bon Nuit Chiens, ‘A votre sante and all that stuff.
Raoul
OldCoastie @ 242
It’s not that hot. Not like the Powerbooks.
It’s soooooo sleek and fast. It feels good under your hands.
I got the blaaaaaack one.
I’m so happy that Koppel has all this time for his broadcast on Discovery!
*ilson46201 @ 220
Thanks for the correction.
Well, I should probably go to bed. Musn’t sleep through the staff meeting tomorrow morning.
See you all tomorrow night.
ooooo! the blaaaaack one! oh man! you are STYLIN’ NOW!!! (and I hear it is just super blazing fast!)
and really! it’s not as hot as the PB? hmm… that’s good news…
‘night, TRex… really, I’m always glad to see you, but tonight… really REALLY glad!
hmmm… Hope we didn’t chase off p-rex.
Still watching here on the west coast. They must have cut some stuff out and changed others. Especially where they’re hanging up on the guys who were trying to take out binLaden – not in this version. Still have the whole phony baloney scene, but they either have toned it down and cut out a lot, or we were mislead. Probably the former.
Berger comes off the worst, like a weak, indecisive fool, but Albright actually looks strong and had a good reason for notifying Pakistan, and it’s made clear that a General, not she, did it.
They try to trash Clinton, naturally, but he still appears as genuinely concerned about terrorism and willing to do stuff to get bin Laden, like the missle strike.
They also show the successful foiling of the millenium plot. I’m beginning to think all our outrage has made a difference. Although far from fair, this doesn’t seem the totally one-sided propaganda hit piece I imagined it to be.
Still are boring piece of crap as a movie, though.
sandlin @ 193
Rest easy. Animal Planet is owned by The Discovery Channel.
anybody seen astralplame lately?
TRex, I think that flicker happens even when noone is online. Nosey *g*. What a nice thing to do for them!
Seriously you hit the nail on the head again tonight kind sir. Getting tired but I often wonder how much of our countries
stupidityshortsightedness has to do with our youth. Old cultures in the far and middle east show much longer memories than we have history. Will we hold onto fear like others hold onto anger? I really hope this will not be the way of (U.S.)Americans.I’m with Patrick Henry.
Work tomorrow. Take care, pups. We can do what needs to be done.
Nite all, Thanks for all the laughs. I needed them tonight.
Thank you FDL. another rescue. Thank you tometart for the news on TAP.
night, LindyH – (I’ll let you fly the jet pack when it gets fixed)
;-)
OldCoastie @ 258
Ha! I SAW that! and you all are my witnesses! (oh BOY)
RBG- thanks much. MOderation is a challenge, as I’m sure you know. Nothing much is absolutely verboten as far as topic, and OT discussion as part of normal conversation has a long tradition at FDL. I generally like to let the discussion flow. *generally* ;)
OldCoastie @ 255
It’s been a little while. Dover Bitch, Medaka, Sherocket, and Zennurse have been quiet as well.
TRex #238: It makes me happy that I could make them happy.
One thing you won’t have to waste time on are all those “purpose-of-life” dicussions. You just aced the final.
I agree. Be Brave. Don’t be afraid to fight in the dirt with thoise bastards. As long as we take the “high road,” we lose.
I know, I’m a broken record but…this is a fight for our way of life. If that’s not worth getting your hands dirty for, what is?
Raoul @ 190,
I bet Everclear is what this nurse was talking about: I complimented her on her perfume, and she said she made it herself out of patchouli oil and “some high-proof stuff I have to get special-order at the state liquor store.”
And I hate patchouli oil smell! Amazing how the alcohol changed it.
by the way:
Starve the Mouse! large image. (Makes a nice shirt).
Guitar Playing Bastard- one thing that I have had to deal with re: the deviseness of BushCo. is having to cut off friendships with some “friends” who I came to know through social networks. I’ve never felt compelled to do this before. But, they wouldn’t listen to my point of view, and I sure wasn’t swallowing theirs. I just couldn’t do the “dirt fight” with them, one on one. Hope this doesn’t make me a weak person!
Lindy, Nice, simple, stylish and just enough subtlety to slip through a goper party. : )
boy, Pat Lang has a mouthful of disgust for Condi and Shooter!
Sic Semper Tyrannis
you can always count on Pat to call ‘em as he sees ‘em…
Just came back for one more kick at the mouse
Ah, Duke…“A sauerkraut by any other name, eh?”
;>)
I’m not talking about…friendships…I’m talking about election tactics…we have to be willing to do our own version of “Swift-Boating,” and every other filthy, dirty trick against the repukes. As I said in another thread, once the battle is won, we can raise the level of discourse…IF THEY WILL.
Am I making any sense? It’s past my bedtime. I am old.
I am also old and must sleep… good night, firepups!
GPB- echo that. Past my bedtime… etc. But. If we’re here at FDL, we are young of heart.
Snow Black is classic db! knee slapper *g*
g’nite all thanks for fighting the good fight this past week.
nevah mind
darkblack- my oh my omigod- Snow Black and the 7 dwarfs (aka…) Classic indeed. Worth a look, all. http://static.flickr.com/47/14…..8d43_o.jpg
Jaysus, now I KNOW it’s time for bed. Sorry mods.
Nite, ES and glad you liked the pic. thanks.
T-Rex, I haven’t had a chance to read the post yet, but I just had to give a big “WOOT” for the Nina Hagen cover (I was just listening to that album yesterday)
OldCoastie @
28
I’ll echo that, for anyone that missed it, it’s worth watching for a repeat. Some very good reporting and raising of questions.
Yes it has been a long week. Just 3 days ago on the 7th we had a full moon, and the biannual lunar eclipse (in Pisces/Virgo). The moon rules We the People. The eclipse squared ABC’s Venus, they aren’t feeling much love over this mess now are they and had to wear a flood of criticism and demands for truth. The counterpart solar eclipse (in Pisces) is in two weeks on Sept 22.
LindyH @ 266
thanks for the graphic, i will put it on a shirt. thanks again.
When you spring my long multilink comment, I don’t suppose you could fix my final quote problem could you? I got a quote within a quote instead of ending my quote and returning to regular text at the end.
Night all – new dog to stay up with tonight, horseshoer coming tomorrow and a busy day – maybe it will be busy enough to not think much.
Well folks, it’s time for this Firedog to go to bed as well. I’ll see the morning folks most likely.
(getting up early, doing an Insular (Celtic) calligraphy piece, and well, it’s going to take a lot of time)
g’nite ‘pups….
I went to bed an hour ago and could not sleep. Anybody here?
The double standards that are flying around infuriate me. Disney won’t distribute “Farenheit 9/11″ because it is too politically charged but “Path to 9/11″ is just fine. Republicans don’t want the Reagan movie because it get’s the facts wrong but this one is “Free speech”. The people are supposed to own the airwaves but media companies get better representation from our government.
Well. . I’m excercising my right to free speech and my fair use of copyright and trademark by attacking Disney right back with a little satyre.
I just today finished doing some work with AMERICAblog on a new Docu-drama about the Life and times of Mickey Mouse.
Check it out here:
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..ickey.html
Or Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIfJphwj_NM
i’m still around,neurophius. not that late in LA.
PLISKO!
a true labor of love!
thanks for the comments, all. sorry i had to actually “work” for a while. all this booze talk was gettin’ me distracted.
Hello? Hello? Anyone there? Just finished Monday night supper in NZ….wonderful pasta and pine nuts.
Is there someone there from Lawrence, Kansas? Just wondering….it is where I spent a recent 18 years, and may be returning to.
Thanks Brkily
More like a labor of justice. . . lol
ok- i’m calling it a night, too. we all need to keep up our energy for the tasks ahead. g’night.
Osama bin Laden has been CAPTURED.
Bin Laden captured? In U.S. custody?
I think this is the October surprise for the following reasons:
1) Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld closed down the “bin Laden unit” tasked with finding and capturing/killing bin Laden.
2) The Pakistan government has reached an accord with the Taliban-controlled tribal regions along the Pakistan/Afghanistan border essentially saying that the government will leave them alone if they’ll leave the government. Why is this significant? The Pakistani government has been under intense pressure from the Bush administration to find Osama bin Laden, who was thought to be hiding in this Taliban-controlled tribal region. Obviously, the U.S. pressure has lessened. One possible reason? Bin Laden has been captured and is in U.S. custody.
3) The U.S. government has had in it’s possession a video shot after 9/11 that shows Osama bin Laden fleeing from Tora Bora and heading to Pakistan. A U.S. bomb explodes in the background as bin Laden instructs those with him on digging holes to escape detection at night. Was this video in bin Laden’s possession when he was captured?
4) Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld just ordered the “flooding” of certain regions in eastern Afghanistan with U.S. special forces units ordered to “capture” Osama bin Laden. I know that this seems to contradict my theory, but think of it as a misdirection ploy. Especially since the “leaked” announcement of this latest plan to capture Osama bin Laden came out at the same time the furor erupted over the airing of the fact-challenged ABC miniseries “The Path to 9/11″ in which the partisan producers stress the failure of the Clinton adminstration in the 1990s to capture or kill Osama bin Laden, while exonerating George W. Bush of the same charge.
5) Bush just declared that he’s certain that the Republicans will retain control of Congress. Boy, this must be a doozy of an October surprise the Republicans are planning. Osama bin Laden captured? In U.S. custody?
These “dots” indicate to me that Osama bin Laden has been captured by the Pakistani government or at the least, somebody wanting the reward money turned over bin Laden to the Pakistani government who then turned him over to the U.S. authorities. After the transfer, the U.S. probably flew bin Laden to the Indian Ocean island of Diego Garcia (a great place to disappear anyone) and are holding him until the appropriate moment arrives…in October 2006 just before the mid-term elections in November.
Just a thought.
That’s a very unsettling thought. . . Great. .now I’m going to try getting some sleep with that bouncing around in my head. .
Sheesh. ..
Hello? Anybody home?
A peaceful dawning here in eastern Maine. 44 degrees, birdsong is mostly jays and crows though with windows closed I may be missing out of the chickadees. Blessings and peace for us all…………..and good morning……..
The final paragraph of Justin Raimondo’s article this morning
“The suspicions many Americans have about the official 9/11 narrative don’t seem all that unreasonable to me. What does seem unreasonable is the attempt to deride any effort to put 9/11 in its full context as “conspiracy theory” and worse. The unsolved mysteries of 9/11 continue to haunt us, and will remain with us as long as the real history of that signal event is shrouded in murk and protected by taboos.”
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9683
And an article about end times in the media by Matt Taibbi of RS…….
“Think about it: a former high-ranking Israeli official returns to the United States and starts writing a new genre of End Times bestsellers whose main ideological thrust is that the United States must stand by Israel to guard against a future invasion by a mega-powerful multinational Antichrist, one that includes the forces of the Arab world, Russia, Germany, and those goddamned French — an invasion which, he repeatedly says in numerous television appearances, is about to happen at any moment.”
http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/41075
Rosy-fingered dawn here in central NJ
Good morning to all.
Just read through comments from yesterday’s posts.
Peace to all, on this day of remembrance.
And to work, electing a Congress that will hold this criminal administration accountable for its lies.
Good morning, OS!
Is there a moderator on now?
well, i have to admit that i would not like osama bin laden to be captured just now. the cheney administration would just gloat and beat their chests and probably win more seats in congress in november. and it wouldn’t bring back any of those who perished on 9/11 or any of the other atrocities he is at least partially responsible for. and the cycles of violence will not abate were he to be captured, or not at any rate because of his capture. all this speculation about capturing OBL, just like all of the rhetoric about conspiracy theories over what caused the twin towers to fall, is distracting to our goals and purposes at FDL. and it can be used by the enemy to foil us.
i didn’t lose anyone on 9/11. gilliard is right, in that i don’t know what it was like. i have been to new york since that time, and i didn’t go to ground zero. i did visit with a friend who just happens to be a highly reputed documentary film maker. she lives in the village and she was close by that morning. we talked about a lot of things and she gave me her views, shared her experiences and so on. she is getting on with her life and has put 9/11 behind her. and although i didn’t go there i don’t think gilliard is right about other people not going there. some will have the wrong motives but others won’t. banal? yes. true? also.
my life has led me to dresden, germany where i have been living for almost two months. sixty one years ago, in dresden, more than ten times the number of people who died on 9/11 died on the night of feb. 13, 1945. more people died here in one twenty four hour period than have died in the iraq war in over three years. the dead in dresden, like those on 9/11, and most of those in iraq were not soldiers. they were mostly old people, women and children.
we have no monopoly on tragedy. compared to what has happened in a number of places in the world americans have been pretty lucky. the sooner we stop obsessing about our woes and look ahead at what we need to do now the better.
Imm, how’s the morning, how’s the family? Nice to see you. Little Imm excited about school today? (I love how important they are when they enter the outside professional) world.)
hi OS, imma, njp,
beautiful sunny afternoon here in dresden. that last comment i wrote was when #296 was the last one on the screen. you all slipped in while i was writing……
Morning Far, how’s the afternoon there? Your comment is well taken. What happened here is that the war violence we managed to keep on other shores arrived on 9-11 and then the Wurlitzeer was cranked up to make it seem as though aliens had just landed. Sheesh. Talk about getting a grip on things and getting on…..and this is NOT addressed to those whe were present at the locations in question……it’s for the rest of this nation who has bought the duct tape and plastic.
And nice to see you here NJP. Early morning is quite social!!
tommy yum @
16
[sigh] Much too late to the party for me to say something like “Thanks, and I’ll just have a seat on one of these piles of bricks … “
p.d.,
yup, that party ended a while back. i was wondering why nobody was drinking absinthe.
Good morning OS, Imm and Fahrender. And thank you OS, always for such interesting links.
I’m afraid I can’t stay on right now, but just wanted to leave a little message for Waccamaw, if you’re here:
I should have mentioned yesterday how nice it is to meet a fellow sewer (sewist?) and don’t be put off by my having called the pattern challenging – I’m a beginner. Those with a bit more experience, I’ve read, find this an easy one!
Hope to catch all of you another time!
Pfiffer–stay long enough for a little coffee…
OS,
right now it’s almost a quarter past one.
Oh, I see Lotus and prostratedragon are also here. Good morning to you!
Sorry for the “drive-by”.
Woohoo — thanks, *ilson!
GOOD MORNING, my dears!
Good morning FDL. I’ve got coffee brewing and the birds are chirping (one *very* insistent chickadee) OS, I forgot to close the windows last night, so it’s about 58 degrees here in the house (whoops) Oh and regarding the duct tape and plastic. It amazed me to think that people had to go out and buy that stuff. Of course, most people probably don’t have a roll of duct tape in every room of their house, like both my brother and I do. (yes, he used duct tape on my nephew’s diapers when he was that age, doesn’t every guy?)
Pfifferling @ 308
What pattern was challenging? I sew over here, rather a lot really.
Beard, If Pfiffer has left, it was an Issiye Mikaye coat pattern mentioned at the end of SAturday night’s Late Night………there is a link to the pattern photo……….
I’ve just been catching up on the beginning of this thread, vicariously enjoying the gracious hospitality of our tommy yum.
Oh my, isn’t he smashing in his smoking jacket and Old Oxonian accent!
Lady cigars passed around, I see, too (prolly NOT the “lady cigars” we rascally cousins used to smoke out behind the barn 50 years ago, though).
On the closed thread I had several posts deleted.
The reason that I am pissed is that steve in his infinite wisdom about the topic told me to shut the fuck up because I pointed out that he was no expert is what he was talking about.
His reply was to dismiss me as someone who has never been to the WTC, who knows nothing about the building etc. In fact I was born in NYC, lived here for most of my 59 yrs, was IN the WTC when it was under construction and am a licensed architect for over 30 yrs… And he who is a “political” new junkie who writes a blog from his apartment for a few years is telling me to shut the fuck up?
Where’s that at? Why weren’t his comments removed?
Further I was not pushing any agenda, but it was galliard’s post and comments which completely dismissied the “truth” movement imply those who have legitimate qurstion were whacko tin foil hat wearing trouble makers. That approach was as inflammatory as anything and surprized me.
I did not read all the comments from the “trolls”, but whomever removed my comments was completely of base.
hi lotus and beard.
beard,
when i lived in iowa i used to duct tape plastic sheeting over the windows in winter to help insulate. it was a drafty old house with rattledy windows and it helped raise the temps, especially in january and february. ugly though…….
dj,
here, have a shot of absinthe. that was so last night……
Hi, fahrender! What’s Dresden up to today?
Yeah, I’m just reading the 9-11 last night thing, and see that there are unhealed wounds. DJ, not to dis your position or irritation, but the moderators have to use their best judgment, and being human, it’s not always perfect, but it is their call none the less, and they are volunteering their time and energy. I appreciate your many great comments here.
Old Sow @ 314
Oh dear, a Miyake? Those aren’t easy. Okay, let me rephrase, my one experience with a Miyake was more like origami than it was like sewing. However the end result is stunning.
back in a while. going to check on billmon and digby……
fahrender @ 317
Oh, a more attractive version is quilted drapes for the winter, which I really must make for the sliders. But, yes, I’ve done the same thing too, when I lived in Newmarket, 8 foot, drafty windows. Glorious amount of light, but absolutely frigid in the winter.
Dear Pfiffer, if you stop by later…
Tks for the note @4.08. What kind of fabric on the Miyake? I got lost in one of the most recent threads (& isn’t it funny they’re called that?) when the road headed toward the care & feeding of cars but I could talk fiber/fabric & making things thereof w/you ’til the cows come home. Still have doll clothes I sewed by hand @age 4?5 & that’s 55-plus years ago :-)
Hi to beard5 & Old Sow; sounds like we share an addiction.
Beard, the quickest, if not most attractive quilted curtain is to buy the pre-quilted fabric, sew one sleeve at the top of the length, and buy those springing curtain rods. Put the curtain right up against the glass. Not so easy to open, but if you buy the white the light comes through and most days we just left it at that. We saved hundreds in oil costs last winter and the whole thing took way less than an afternoon of labor including driving 1.25 hours each way to the store to get the supplies.
PS Waccamaw, I don’t sew much, but deal in African textiles and love all things fabric.
Good morning, everyone. Damp, cool morning here in DC. Time to put the coffee pot on.
I’m wondering if RollingStone’s Matt Taibbi and NBC’s Mike Taibbi are brothers. Seems likely to me.
Oh Pfiffer, I just checked out the pattern, and yup that was the jacket I made. I hadn’t even seen your post and I came up with the origami analogy as well.
I twiddled with the pattern a bit, I used a loose woven wool, and to give it a bit of “oomph” I channel quilted it to some dyed-to-match muslin.
Persevere! The results are worth it.
OS, that is exactly what I have here. except for a few windows where I just quilted up some muslin to fit the odd window sizes in this house.
(Previous owner was a handyman and custom made all the windows, nothing is standard sizes.)
Hi, *atou. Got some of that bananas Foster bread pudding left over from yesterday, and I’ll be glad to hot it up and make some fresh sauce for you and beardy, if you like. (That is, unless tommy rolls in with one of his world-class omelets first.)
DefJef, FDL is an activist political blog with political goals. “Solving 911″ can be a consuming distraction from those goals and could provide a dismissive characterization for our political enemies to hang on the blog. (”Oh, FDL, what a bunch of kooks.”) I’m not saying you’re a kook, just that fighting that particular battle is not where FDL wants to be, and that’s Jane’s right. There are plenty of other forums where you can indulge your interest in this topic – FDL is not going to be all things to all people. Every time I pimp Jonathan Tasini’s primary challenge against Hillary Clinton tomorrow, I expect to get a reprimand, and if I do, I’ll respect my host and stop. (Only one more day and I’ll stop anyway.)
Mornin’ firefolks! How is everyone today? I can feel fall coming here in eastern PA.
lotus @ 331
Mmmm, warm bread pudding to go with my steaming mugga. Yum!
Mornin’ backatcha, twolfie-the news-bringer and op99!
I kinda envy you northerners this time of year, when you get crisp and we’ve still got muggy. How long ’til leaf-turning where you are? (Ours, such as it is, happens around New Year’s. Lasts about a week.)
Hi Twolf–definitely autumn here. Weather reporters talking about strong frosts in parts of the state. Not so here, but it will be time to make all the pesto and harvest the green tomatoes soon………
Old Sow -
African textiles – new or historic?
Took a class in stained glass years ago & couldn’t figure out for a while why the craft didn’t grab me…..finally realized that I’d been in love w/a completely malleable medium (fabric) all my life & glass is about as unbendable as the current president.
op99, wish I could vote for Tasini. Enjoy that moment for a whole buncha us, okay?
BBC
The first part of a controversial series on the 11 September attacks was misrepresentative despite being re-edited, the Clinton Foundation says.
US network ABC “chose fiction over fact and entertainment over education” by misquoting Clinton administration officials in The Path to 9/11, it said.
The former president’s aides were angry at suggestions he failed to deal with an Islamic militant threat before 2001.
Wacca–new, so not to blogwhore, email me at jobokunda at adelphia.net if you are interested and I’ll send you the link……..
Pfifferling @
313
Top ‘o the! And everyone else.
Just checking out the photo of Cheney, Rice, and Tyrannis at the Lang site (http://tinyurl.com/kaknu). Didn’t realize how short Cheney is—no taller than Rice. T., I assume, was wearing stilts for that picture.
A poster to Lang’s article, quoting Schopenhauer to illustrate a point or two about Cheney and Russert, has convinced me to throw some of that philosopher’s work on the ever-growing pile:
lotus – leaves usually turn here in October. I love fall.
OS – did the leaves turn up there yet?
Pictures the GOP doesn’t want you to see
I’m amazed at all the 9-11 memorials going on over the state of Maine today, per NPR.
Leaves are just starting to turn here. I love autumn too, though I do also get the light deprivation blues………
TWolf, that site is funny…..
oooh, Twolf, great link. Put Cheney with Santorum, it’s really creepy.
Lotus, I’m making some of the bannas foster bread pudding for the next scribes guild pot luck. Should be a hit.
Because it has fruit, I’m calling it health food.
beard5 @ 344
nooooooo… please don’t make me ;)
either by themself is creepy
DefJef @ 319
DefJef,
I, too, was disappointed in Steve’s tone – which was hostile and dismissive to anyone else’s opinion but his own. Perhaps 9/11 wasn’t the right topic for him to be posting about, since it’s clearly too raw and he seemed incapable of having a discussion about it.
I too lived in NYC – lived in the West Village and commuted down to Wall Street every day. The World Trade Center was my subway stop. I had many meeting there and frequent meals at Windows on the World. But that was years ago.
More relevant to that day – my brother-in-law worked at the World Finance Center two blocks from the twin towers. He saw the 2nd plane hit. He saw people jumping. He saw the body parts in the street. He ran for his life when the first tower came down. He made his way uptown to Grand Central and eventually was able to get a train out of the city. My sister was home with two pre-schoolers – desperate for any word on his whereabouts.
About 10 days later my sister & I accompanied him back to his office. I think it was therapeutic for him to have us there to show us where he was when he saw what he saw – what the “pile” looked like – what he had to do to get out alive. An art gallery owner had let him and some colleagues in to allow them to escape the violent, evil cloud following them down the street. He takes her flowers every year on the anniversary.
There were many families in my community who lost loved ones – many worked for Canter Fitzgerald – but just as many worked for other firms. What happened shattered our world and our community.
But just like Pearl Harbor – it is an event that impacted everyone in our country – not just New Yorkers, or people from New Jersey, CT, Washington, DC or Pennsylvanie.
And do we consider people, especially veterans, who go to Hawaii every year to pay homage to the Arizona and all the other sunken naval vessels – goulish?
As touched as I was my Steve Gillard’s piece, I was offended by his subsequent comments to those who had a different point of view.
However the moderators did the best they could. I helped moderate the Kerry blog during the election and it took about 10 of us working in shifts 24/7 to keep it clean and productive (moderating during the debates was insane). I know just how difficult the process is and think the FDL mods are doing a great job.
Thanks for the Beeb link, *ilson. Here’s some more news (none of which would be happening if we had a prez with one whole lick of sense):
Because it has fruit, I’m calling it health food.
Excellent ploy, m’man.
lotus @
322
hi lotus,
beautiful sunny afternoon. no leaves changing yet but shouldn’t be long. dresden having it’s 800 year anniversary these days but i’m not into that being a newcomer. so, life is good but nothing special in the way of news……
back in a while.
triple advil morning here – I hope we don’t have any big revelations today – I’m exhausted.
dab 350 — Thank you very much for that, and I can add a special amen as to our mods.
Sorry that I wasn’t able to stick around before, but we have beautiful sunshine today, perfect light for sewing.
Beard5, it’s so nice to meet you! I’ve admired your work from a distance. We’re in two totally different leagues! Thank you for the encouragement on the Miyake.
Waccamaw, fabric choice for this pattern is really important, since it requires about 5 yds and you’ll be wearing all of it. Also, if it’s too heavy, it won’t drape well.
I’m making a muslin (practice garment), so I’m just using some very inexpensive lining fleece (!), but at least it’s drapey and if the pattern doesn’t work for me, I can turn it into a cosy bathrobe :) And if it works, then I’m thinking about a black wool jersey.
Lotus, those banana recipes from yesterday have been saved to my cooking file!
Old Sow-
Tks for the link. Currently having problems w/some aspects of out-going e-mail but made myself a note to check in w/you when it’s resolved.
Good Mornin’ Morning Crew,
have some orange quickbread rolls just out of the oven – glazed or non glazed ?
lotus – we’re in the same boat, no real fall here, it was 102 w/ 90% humidity last Halloween night
did any of the Southeast Firedogs feel the earthquake yesterday ?
anecdotal reporting shows ABC tanked last night, overnight numbers usually post around 10am PST
oh and,
Hippos 48
Elgin 24
Good morning, Mary. Need a little caffeine with that Advil? Cawffee or tea?
is Medaka on vacation? anyone know?
morning afgain, morning folks — Just dropped off Little Imm at school. Today’s treat (for a parent): “I wonder why I am not happy about going to school every day yet.”
This is only his third full day after all (I told him), but then I added that I am not completely happy about going to work every day yet.
Meanwhile, I wrote a couple of posts yesterday aboput the “catching bin Laden” virus that many are catching. If the proper ground work was done on this issue for the last few weeks by Dean and others, it wouldn’t much matter because — it doesn’t much matter really (excpet politically). And this topic has been trotted out for four and a half years now. Same thing at the 2002 elections — Bush has bin laden, OH MY!
2004 — Bush has Bin Laden “Eeeeck!”
OK, it’s 2006 so right on time the Cassandras….
So, Bush etc. will try to make political hay out of a turd. We know that. So fretting about how Bush always has the master political stroke up his sleeve is neither true nor (if it should happen like a strike of lightning) is there anything to do about it now.
Train calling — All Aboard!
new thread
twolf1 @ 360
I don’t think so, twolf — believe he just started teaching again, so let’s hope he’s just covered-up with that.
cbl, glazed for me, please!
I didn’t feel the earthquake, but I saw someone in Ocala (mid-peninsula, north of Orlando) quoted about the shaking there. I guess it depended on the soils under you.
Nifty that ABC got its just deserts . . .
cbl @ 358
CBL, we had an earthquake in the Southeast? I haven’t turned on the tv because of the 9-11 24/7 happening. (I still can’t watch footage of that day)
Magnitude 6.0 – GULF OF MEXICO
2006 September 10 14:56:07 UTC
Good Morning all,
I would like to apologize for my choice of language last night. I need to learn to stay out of the toobz when I am angry.
Path to 9-11 made me furious. I should have kept to myself with all that hostility.
I do want to clarify a couple things i said in the last thread because I think I said them inartfully.
I do not disapprove of people who are not from NY coming to see Ground Zero. I don’t disapprove of that at all. This was a national tragedy and I do equate it with Pearl Harbor. Moreover, the entire purpose of building the proposed memeorial, like the memorial at Pearl Harbor, is to create a place for people from all over the world to come to “connect”.
I’m fine with that. What I am not fine with, are these dreadful parisites hawking Tee shirts and pictures and those god awful commemorative coins made from silver in the vaults under the WTC. Have you seen those commercials?
The one and only time I went to Ground Zero, there were these tourists, bargaining with a vendor of really really exploitive souveniers and taking pictures, smiling and clowning in front of the hole.
When they asked me to use their camera to photograph them –smiling and waving in front of a mass grave– is when I lost is and began to cry.
Someone said they made the time to visit Dachua while on a business trip. I sincerly doubt there are any pictures of that commentor exhibitng hilarity at such a somber site.
People coming to NYC and stopping by Ground Zero to say a prayer or contemplate the wound to our collective American– no, collective human– psyche, is just fine.
Souvenier shoppers, grief tourists, exploitors of any kind–I’m sorry, trigger a whole lotta words my mommy doesn’t like me to use.
Bush exploited a tragedy that happened to NY and by using this rallying cry that it happed to all the US, used it, used our personal grief as a shield and a sword to do more harm to this country than Osama ever could.
So, I get why Steve does not like it when someone who was not in harm’s way, who did not lose a loved one tries to appropriate to themselves the personal grief of New Yorkers.
That’s what Bush did to us.
He stole our pain and wrapped himself up in it and used our loss to justify his actions.
Then he cut our Homeland Security funding by 40% to give out political pork to red states.
Thank you Twolf. I like to follow earthquake news, it goes back to when I worked in a library and had to recatalog everything from the North American Geological Survey. If ever you want some fine science writing, look for that publisher. They write the books for the expert, but they do it in a way that an educated layman can pick up and read.
op99 @ 334
well, you’ll have a smidge of company on that one, then. i’m thinking i’ll be the only vote tasini gets in my little precinct.
coffee lotus – lots of it.
lhp – I think most people understand where you and Steve and others were coming from and it’s a pretty raw time – so you’re entitled, whether people agree or not.
lhp, your sentiments are much closer to mine than gilliard’s were. but, of course, part of fdl’s appeal is to see the different takes folks have, and nothing he wrote truly offended me.
for the first year after, new yorkers were concerned that the rest of the country would, in fact, treat 9/11 as merely an event — however tragic — that didn’t involve the nation as a whole. indeed, i think morgan freeman caught some grief for actually voicing that opinion. so gilliard’s stance feeds into that kind of exclusionary thinking.
TRex: Thank you. Perfectly stated.
Howdy folks thanks for putting down the remote and given me my moment of glory, don’t worry no one will change your channel on you. Try hard to recall what Ike told us all about keeping an eye on the industrial-military boys, did you think these boys were just going to pick up their toys and go home after the cold war.Heck no, they brought their sleeping bags and waited until 9-11. Then they called GeorgiePorgey and and said let the bearded one slip away
It seems to me that there is a common thread emerging: the current tactics in the “War on Terror” strengthen the terrorists and help them achieve their goals with no effort on their part – as we wreck the republic from within and jettison everything that the United States was founded for.