
Last night, Kevin Drum passed along a stunningly matter-of-fact interview in, of all places, the Hampton Roads Daily Press with retiring Brigadier General Mark Scheid, who was in charge of the logistical planning for the Iraq invasion:
Scheid said the planners continued to try "to write what was called Phase 4," or the piece of the plan that included post-invasion operations like occupation.
Even if the troops didn’t stay, "at least we have to plan for it," Scheid said.
"I remember the secretary of defense saying that he would fire the next person that said that," Scheid said. "We would not do planning for Phase 4 operations, which would require all those additional troops that people talk about today.
"He said we will not do that because the American public will not back us if they think we are going over there for a long war."
(See? And people think Rummy is stupid or crazy.) Kevin reacted to the interview by saying, "This is the clearest evidence I’ve seen yet . . . that all of Bush’s talk about democracy was nothing but hot air." Which left Atrios perplexed:
I still have no idea why we invaded Iraq. I really don’t.
Fortunately, I think I can help Duncan out. As I wrote just over three years ago, "the war’s goal wasn’t to project American ideas into the Middle East — it was to project American power there." But there’s more to it than that.
I explained further in a post in late December of 2003:
The neoconservative/Bushite game plan for transforming the region is based not on the inspiring example of a hypothetical democracy in Iraq, but on the ongoing and credible threat of further American military actions.
If you take a look at pre-September 11th neoconservative documents like the Project for a New American Century’s 1997 statement of principles or its 2000 report on defense strategy (link is a PDF download), you’ll see an obsession with expanding U.S. military capabilities and "protecting American interests" overseas, with only a passing reference to democracy.
September 11th was the triggering event that let the neocons Dubya had surrounded himself with take the PNAC plan for a "Pax Americana" (a phrase the 2000 report uses several times, describing it as a "strategic goal") off the bookshelf of right-wing war porn and turn it into America’s official foreign policy.
How does that tie in with the lack of post-invasion planning for Iraq? Here’s how I explained it in January 2004:
You see, besides just the need to go to war, there was something about how the war was conducted that the responsible-planning folks couldn’t be allowed to interfere with. . . . In fact, the phrase back in April was that this was a demonstration conflict — quite literally, we were making an example of Saddam Hussein, one that would make other nations think twice about challenging us.
Part of this example was the much-ballyhooed "shock and awe" bombing campaign, which would demonstrate just how much firepower the U.S. could deliver with terrifying precision. But another part of it was going in alone, with a bare minimum of soldiers and no postwar commitment.
After all, "You’d better not cross us, or we’ll spend the better part of a year haggling in the UN to build an international coalition, then tie most of our army down for years rebuilding your country" isn’t all that terrifying a threat, is it? That’s why the Bushite power axis adopted an alternate message: "Cross us, and we’ll knock your head sideways so fast you’ll have no idea what happened. We don’t need anyone’s permission, we don’t need a huge invasion force, and we don’t need to clean up any mess afterward."
That was the message the Iraq war was intended to communicate. And that’s why we went in the way we did — without a net, so to speak. Because it couldn’t look like a lucky accident if things went well; we had to show that we knew how easy it would be … and how easy it would be to duplicate those results in any country we chose.
Unfortunately for the neocons (and the rest of us), things didn’t turn out that way. Here’s how I ended that same post:
Of course, in truth we’ve wound up demonstrating much the opposite — but those are the breaks, I guess, if you’re a neocon. Besides, those guys always have a fallback position. Maximum chaos in Iraq just demonstrates how dangerous the world is, and how we need ever-higher defense budgets and more military bases to keep it under control, doesn’t it? And now that America’s made a commitment to get involved over there, why, it would be cowardly to turn our backs now! So they can claim victory either way … it’s just the innocent people caught in the middle (here, and in Iraq) who lose.
Come to think of it, those are pretty much the arguments the war-hawks are making now, isn’t it? I’ll tell ya, being able to tell the future just sucks sometimes.
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Swopa!
swopa
Missed it by thaaat much.
Maximum chaos in Iraq is sealing Iraqi oil beneath a thin but impenetrable layer of chaos.
Maximum chaos in Iraq is sealing Iraqi oil beneath a thin but impenetrable layer of chaos.
Oops. The war in Iraq is sealing Iraqi oil beneath a thin but impenetrable layer of chaos.
Just a note from those of us allowed to peek behind the scenes… tonight’s Late Night FDL has one of the best post titles ever.
FDL!
Kick some ABC/Disney ass!
Say we need a snarky nickname for that (not so) dynamic duo. I am sure the FDL legions can come up with something goooood.
The Boycott is ON!
Yes, nothing like projecting power when you have the follow through of a three year old forced to play whack-a-mole with a set of tweezers. Heckuva job, Rummy. (Asshats, the whole lot of them.)
Great post, as always, Swopa.
Swopa: I stole it from somewhere; I just can’t remember where. I can’t take credit.
We attacked Iraq because the neo-con packed Bush administration backed by the Israeli government wanted us to. This is not a difficult suppositional inference.
Another possible answer why we went to war: How does the Commander-In-Chief get to land on the deck of an aircraft carrier if there’s no war?
Jesus Christ.. I knew Rumsfeld was an arrogant dickhead… PEOPLE ARE DYING! Have the last few years been CYA for just ONE PERSON? Starting to seem like it.
Great post Karnac-Swopa.
Can you tell me how to tie the fuckers up and hide them somewhere they can’t cause any more damage?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 10
I suppose not, but the question was why there was no postwar planning. ;)
Sounds like what the Israelis did in Lebanon.
We invaded Iraq to protect the American way of life. All western economies are powered by OIL we will fight to protect our access to OIL. We (the USA) had a military presence in the mideast to protect our access to oil in “our oil region” until 1979 and that was under the control of our guy, the Shah of Iran, we armed him. From the moment the Shah was overthrown in 1979 many American strategists sought to replace that lost US military presence in the region. Our troops in Saudi Arabia are/were part of that strategy. We invaded Irag (and our troops will never entirely leave) to reestablish that protective military presence. The Iraqis are fighting each other in order to control their oil fields. Our troops and all those Iraqis died for OIL.
swopa in da house!
You got it, Swopa!
Short Bushista logic:
We lied, screwed up Iraq, screwed up our armed forces, destabilized the Middle East, recruited 50,000 future suicide bombers, created depths of corruption in contracting previously unknown, set womens’ rights in the Middle East back at least 50 years – and if you don’t let us keep on doing what we’ve been doing, things will get worse even faster.
I read somewhere recently that the republicans do risk assesment like no one else. I’m still trying to wrap my mind around the fact post-war planning was ignored after toppling a dictator. Something about that doesn’t make sense. There had to have been a plan. I even think things might be going according to that plan given the lame, by the book response by the military.
Urban Pirate @ 13
I prefer the term Swopadamus…
Ummm… reply hazy, ask again later.
Swopa –
This is one of The. Best. FDL. Posts. Ever –
This post points to the Sledgehammer Soundbites that ALL Democrats can use to demolish the credibility of Every Republican.
A Republican without credibility is a butt nekkid gangster and traitor — and a loser and an object of derision . . .
Our mission is — distilling these Rumsfeld Traitor facts, into smack-them-upside-the-head soundbites that will get GOoPer-Bots to spit out the Kool-Aid . . .
Seriously — this is the mission, that will rout the Republicans . . .
Plan? We don’t need no stinking plan!
The great Rummy on April 11, 2003. Swopa, you don’t understand him. He’s just more untidy tolerant than you (and most sentient creatures) are.
“it is a fundamental misunderstanding to see those images over, and over, and over again of some boy walking out with a vase and say, ‘Oh, my goodness, you didn’t have a plan.”
I remember that well. That, and onezies and twozies
The only postwar planning necessary in the PNAC pornopoly was to re-stock the Iraqi flower shops and chocolatiers. Greeted as liberators, US forces would stand down as democratic institutions flourished in a “country” drawn on a map by a drunken Englishman at the dawn of the Roaring Twenties.
The real Iraq postwar planning was to invade Iran in 2005, whilst privatizing our social security, banning abortion, and setting up the camps for illegals. This quagmire’s really busted BushCo’s chops, eh?
A plan? There was no need for one. We were going to greeted as liberators. There would be dancing in the streets. That WAS the plan. Of course some would argue, that gross ineptitude and collective egocentrism was the basis for there being no plan. The history of the Bush administration is one of having no game plan. Be it Katrina, Iraq, Lebanon, lack of health care, social security, the drug prescription “plan”, joblessness, as a consequence of outsourcing, or anything else.
TeddySanFran @ 24
That was the plan? Then given the way things are going now, I almost have a reason to celebrate. Almost.
The plan is for them to get richer whilst we serve them as serfs or die.
I think Bush is going to “Stay the Curse”
let me make something CRYSTAL clear
the PNAC’ “plan” for Iraq had NOTHING to do with America
it had to do with pillaging the treasure of an entire country
AND in the process, pillar the wealth of America in the same breath
it was to CONTROL oil, not get America a supply of it, but to CONTROL the supply
everyone needs to realize;
WE DO NOT NEED OIL, this country can be energy independent IN 5 YEARS, it’s been done and it’s SIMPLE
they DELIBERATELY destabilized the middle east,, they WANT havoc in the middle east, and AMERICA IS A PAWN, we ARE expendable as far as they are concerned
HALIBURTON IS SELLING NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY TO IRAN DAMN IT!
AND WE ARE SUBSIDIZING THEM TO DO IT
it’s been said America will NEVER be defeated from without, our doom will come from within
that’s a paraphrase, I don’t have the actual quote, BUT THAT’S WHAT’S HAPPENING
Gibson has a friggin CLIP pf the president GUARANTEEING democrats WON’T win a majority
DOES ANYONE REMEMBER HOW RELAXED HE WAS AGAINST KERRY?
HE KNEW HE WOULD WIN
and he KNOWS the democrats can’t win back a majority in either house
as far as the coming election, THIS DOG IS FIXED, NEUTERED.
we have GOT to do more about voting machines in the coming election
we have GOT to prepare for an October “surprise”
it’s getting down to the wire
I’m on a rant, and I can’t stop, must pull the plug on this computer
Hugh @ 22
Great grab, Hugh. I remember watching Rumsfeld say that on TV and thinking “This guy is more nuts than I was afraid he was!”
And of course keeping that oil IN the ground in Iraq was also essential to maintain control of oil prices for the House of Bush-Fahd. And Saddam was exerting some muscle there, and he could not be relied upon to play that game.
And Mexico is the 5th largest (I think) oil source in the world. So we must have a US friendly face there.
They are pillaging and stealing everything they can from everywhere every day.
That interview with Gen Scheid is frightening. He was the chief of logistics war plans (named on Sept 10, 2001!), and Rummy tells him in no uncertain terms NOT TO DO HIS JOB!
I always figured that when, during the runup to the war, Bush et al. said “We have no plans for occupying Iraq,” he was engaging in rhetorical slight-of-hand (what my mother called “lying,” just like Christy’s). Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that Bush, Cheney, or Rumself (thanks, John Dean!) would actually NOT plan for such an eventuality.
Logistics is what makes a military operation function, and Rummy cut it off at the knees. If ever there was a reason for Rummy to go, this is it.
(And I’m not at all surprised this appeared in a Hampton Roads newspaper – the top three local industries there are the military, the military, and the military.)
OfT: has anyone heard from the Faneuil Hall John Kerry speech attendees today? Was he on fire?
Great post, Swopa. The point of the Iraq war and occupation was to create chaos–so Mission Accomplished, let’s bring the troops home.
Lately I’ve been thinking more about post presidential-election consequences for those in power. Is there any way some of this stuff could come back and bite them in the ass? International War Crimes Commission stuff?
Take names..save the data..never forget. To save the country for future generations we will need years and years of trials and convictions.
Equipment and material that should have been flowing into Afghanistan got diverted Kuwait. There were not the resources available to military there to finish the job. The guys in Afghanistan didn’t know what was up till later. And what do have there now — a growing mess.
MsAnnaNOLA @
7
MsAnna, I have a graphic if you want a poster:
Starve the Mouse!
Halftime in the dream game between Ohio State and Texas – the two top rated teams in the country. Very close, exciting game.
On ABC,
60 million people watching worldwide.
No promos for tomorrow’s PT911 movie on the same channel.
Do I smell a quietly issued restraining order?
OT –
For all you SF area firepups, tomorrow afternoon at Sharon Meadow in Golden Gate Park is the free San Francisco Opera’s annual “Opera in the Park” concert! Great fun, great music, and an all around great time. It’s a kind of greatest hits of the coming and past opera seasons, with singers that range from A-list stars to up-and-coming singers. Everyone brings a blanket, picnic, and plenty of beverages (adult and otherwise) . . . and a good time will be had by all.
And if you see someone with a beard, ponytail, and Hawaiian shirt with his wife and four year old son, stop by and say hello!
So the neo-con dream for America is an empire girdling the globe, guarding “our” assets and the borders of our bribed “allies” — sort of a global gated community for the top 1/10th of 1%?
And the rest of us? What about the rest of us? Do we get a voice, a share, a vote, in how our planet is plundered for their profit and pleasure?
Ed*ard Teller @ 39
I noticed that too. My thought was that ABC was still up in the air about showing it tomorrow . . . or else they’re still editing and couldn’t figure out which scenes would be in the show, and so couldn’t figure out what should go in the ads.
TeddySanFran @ 41
Do we get a voice, a share, a vote? That depends – do you own stock in Halliburton?
TeddySanFran @ 41
That’s why… there’s a FESTIVUS for the rest of us! Thank god for the internets!
For those who love great cartoons, Mark Fiore does great animation and this week’s speaks to the topic here. http://www.sfgate.com/comics/fiore/
The Plan
Let U$ Prey
Empty The Space
Build the Base
Empire Forever
Do I smell a quietly issued restraining order?
Or perhaps threat of mutiny in ABC/Disney legal depts?
Having a post war plan would have made it harder to steal Iraq’s oil. Chaos is great cover.
anjinsan @ 44
To the tubes, Batman!
Kos has recently started a diary on the lack of ads today:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/…..5947/1712?
but we were on it first here at fdl, late this morning…….
Other great examples of forward thinking:
Fitting too few lifeboats on the Titanic
Invading Russia without winter clothing
If they showed the trailer that they are using overseas, there would be a full-scale rebellion from the left, and the show would be pulled.
(International trailer front paged on Daily Kos)
They are doing what they have to do to get the show aired.
Ok, let’s get back to talking about plans. Perhaps we need another post-post-war plan. WHAT are we going to do when the koolaid drinkers slink away to their plush hidey-holes?
Lobster @ 52
That’s another side of the coin, for sure, but don’t they want people to watch this program tomorrow/monday?
I’d like to know how this plays out with Saudi interests. I think the neocons are deeply in bed with that authoritarian regime and Bush family is also deeply partnered with Saudis. Does the chaos in Iraq make Saudi oil more valuable? Secure their hold on Mecca, and out of the hands of other seculars? Just spitballing here, need help, but I think it’s worth thinking about in terms of why we went in.
Actually, it is fortunate for us that it didn’t turn out that way.
Now maybe we can stop the next one.
I watched the local news on the ABC station after the no-commercial football game. They did report there was a controversy about the ABC TV show and that petitions with over 200,000 signatures had been turned in… I saw no local promos or trailers for PT911…
Ok, I’ve got a plan. America is tainted in this thing completely, so the rest of the world has to take over and sort things out in Iraq because we now can’t be trusted to do it impartially. That would be a good start.
If companies still have ‘good will’ as an entry on the books (intangible asset, IIRC), what’s happened to Disney’s ‘good will’ line this week? Do you think the beancounters are in panic mode also?
There was no plan because this was supposed to be a slam-dunk that would take them through the next election cycle. You know – the American public does not have a history of changing presidents in the middle of a war.
Well it worked. He (dubya) got re-elected just like he was supposed to. What didn’t work was the supposed slam-dunk. I don’t think George thought this up all on his own, but it tied in with the PNAC ideology and Cheney’s ambitions et al.
You gotta ask yourself, why is he the only vice president in recent history (my history – I haven’t done a lot of fact checking on this part) who has no interest whatsoever in becoming president? My belief is that he probably would not be able to take the heat and remain alive. And he likes being in the shadow. The power behind the throne so to speak.
> “the war’s goal wasn’t to project American ideas into the Middle East — it was to project American power there.”
The Israel Lobby — AIPAC, The New Republic, the neocons themselves — wanted this war. This certainly wasn’t the only reason the US attacked Iraq but it was one important factor. Yet Swopa doesn’t even mention Israel.
It is time to discuss the Israel lobby openly and honestly, without anti-semitism and without fear of false charges of anti-semitism.
Oklahoma kiddo @
10
Damn straight. I think this is in front of any oily arguement and I am not nor have I ever been anti semetic.
What Iraq and the Path to 911 have in common is a kind of willful, pigheaded stupidity. For both there were many ways in which the whole sorry mess could have been avoided entirely. Further down the line, there were ways to contain and limit the damage but noooooo.
Swopa- great post- and it has me thinking. Hard. My mind usually works pretty well, but maybe I’m just tired.
So, is this the simplified take-home message? 1) BushCo/ RumCo: Plan A- we will be greated with flowers and candy, and Plan B (there is no plan) we will be in deep shit if Plan A doesn’t work, so we don’t even want to raise the issue.
OR this 2) BushCo/ RumCo: Plan A- we will be greated with flowers and candy, and Plan B (there is no plan) it will just be okey dokey with us if Plan A doesn’t work, and the whole region descends into chaos, because there’s a HUGE upside to that too.
Thanks, and apologies if I am being obtuse here.
Nice post Swopa. Strobel, one of my favorites, wrote this in 2004.
Favorite quote is near the end:
Heh.
I heard reports that Deadeye Dick Cheney’s trip to Boston was marred by protesters and a lack of attendance from party faithful and party names.
Feeling like a pariah Dick?
Old Chimpy won’t have the suave and eloquent Tony Blair to make him seem like FDR(In Chimpy’s mind that is) to Blairs Churchill. Blair is getting hounded out of office, hooray.
I think that things are getting worse and worse for them. Now the EU wants some answers about the gulags that Condi and Bush scoffed at when asked about.
Hey George, Slobodan Milosevic left an empty cell in The Hague for you.
-GSD
They had a two point plan:
1. Smash
2. Grab
Oh yeah, Bush will have the displeasure of the fact that Iraqi Chief Puppet Nouri Al Maliki will be going to Iran this week to kiss the wreath on Ayatollah Khomeini’s grave.
-GSD
I think Plan C: We tell the rubes some crap about flowers and candy. Then we drain the Treasury.
*ilson46201 @
57
No Promos; Local News reports on the controversy . . .
I believe ABC is setting the stage for a dramatic last minute replacement, of who knows what — panel discussions, films, whatever . . .
Disney/ABC is setting up for a big bailout — the question is, will they do it?
Or will they become the Disney/ABC subsidiary of American Airlines?
Wingnut churches will be handing out program guides tomorrow. Lots of people will see it if it airs.
Plus, all they need to do is actually have it shown as legitimate. The audience will only grow after that (Apple, iPod scumbags — and I’ve had Apples for years…).
-ck- @ 70
Herbie.. The Love Bug!
how the HELL do we recover from this?
what will become of America?
can we POSSIBLY undo the damage even IF the elections are legitimate?
we are going to have to federalize EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE THAT PROFITED FROM THIS WAR
I don’t care if they’re middle class people, I don’t care if they’re democracts
WHOEVER MADE PROFIT ON THIS AGGRESSION NEEDS TO GIVE THAT PROFIT BACK TO AMERICA
this is a FACT
we need to federalize the tax giveaways that went into the bank accounts of the richest people on the planet, we need to federalize EVERY STOCK CHENEY AND THE BUSH FAMILY OWNS, we need to federalize EVERY SINGLE PERSON that turned profit from the decisions this president made
Phil K @ 69
Good addition- you meant the US Treasury, I assume. That money going to Haliburton, & Co. etc. ? (Acutally, that is a variant of #2 Plan B, now that I think about it.)
GSD @ 65
This is one of the things I’ve been thinking about this past week:
That the EU is very unhappy and perhaps someone will have enough guts to haul the whole bunch in front of the International Court.
Wouldn’t that be something to see.
Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease.
Bush:
failed businessman
failed governor
failed president
successful PNAC frontman
Suggestion: if they’re giving out tickets for Bush or Cheney appearances, get as many as possible, and either don’t show up, or go in (thus getting the ticket marked as used) and leave shortly thereafter. The idea is to make sure they have lots of empty seats for the cameras; if the tickets are ‘used’ they’ll have a hard time filling those spots.
Ed*ard Teller @ 50
LOL Good ole Hunter, he says in the comments:
“They’re gearing up for next season’s big new hit”
“Dancing with Al Qaeda”
karnak12 @ 60
Someone recently reminded me Cheney did attempt to run for president at one point in time.
ck: Or will they be the Disney/ABC subsidiary of American Airlines?
That’s the first thing I thought when I heard the wrong airline thing — American will end up accepting ABC as the settlement from Disney. That’s why I was suggesting possible mutiny, earlier.
I’m thinking “low-key replement with hastily improvised ‘retrospective’ with lots of long interviews with Condoleeza Rice”.
me to me at 29–
This dog is fixed, neutered.
Exactly my point in the last thread.
I couldn’t agree more: they’re not worried about dems re-taking the House (let alone the Senate) because there’s not gpoing to be an election. There’s going to be a “Terrorist Event” followed by Marshall Law.
alittlemusicalityplease @ 80
You mean, like, Anthrax?
Just like the neocon vision was fantasy, so was Rumsfeld’s dream of Force Transformation. This was the idea that small, mobile high tech forces could replace large traditional armies in all their missions. Since the extended occupation of a large and fractious country did not accord with this view, it was quite simply ignored. So Iraqi security was left in the hands of the Iraqi army, police, and civil authorities –all of which had ceased to exist. You can begin to see the problem. Rumsfeld, of course, still can’t.
First, Iraq was about gaining acccess to the entire middle east. Hence the pull out from Saudi Arabia and the installation of permanent bases in Iraq. This was merely the first of what Bushco thought was an easy step. Next was Syria, Iran so forth. I do believe Seymour Hersh stated this long ago.
Second, “democracy” means only “free enterprise” to Bushco. They have largely been successful in Iraq in this area.
alittlemusicalityplease @ 80
Followed by the beginning of the taking back of America.
This would clearly be one occupation too many for most American soldiers.
-GSD
ck: Or will they be the Disney/ABC subsidiary of American Airlines?
That’s the first thing I thought when I heard the wrong airline thing — American will end up accepting ABC as the settlement from Disney. That’s why I was suggesting possible mutiny, earlier.
I’m thinking “low-key replacement with hastily improvised ‘retrospective’ with lots of long interviews with Condoleeza Rice”.
OK, no one has mentioned EUROS yet. Wasn’t there some secret push to stop Iraq from converting to Euros which would take profits from BushCo oil dealings?
What about the oil pipelines they are building and need to finish connecting through the ME countries?
Lobster @ 52…
Europeans LIKE Clinton and can’t stand Bush. I’m more inclined to think Americans will buy this horses**t than our European brethren. I can already see them rolling their eyes. You’d thin Disney/ABC would know this.
martial law
Perennial talking head, Bush apologist and neo-con military analyst, General Wayne Downing had written up a military plan to take Iraq with 10,000 troops. Rummy(The Transformer) wanted 50,000.
Luckily some of the old school military types were able to force the troop levels up into the 100,000 levels.
You know, using US troops and foreign nations as laboratories for military strategists and poltical hacks to play out their cutesy fantasies.
-GSD
I’VE GOT IT! EUREKA
I propose a counter-production to this Path to 9/11 mess. We’ll call it BLUE DAWN and it will -not- star C. Thomas Howell.
“COOOOOYOOOTTTEEESSS!”
Laney @ 61
(*shrugs*)
Sorry for not listing every important factor in the war. As I said above, my main focus was the lack of postwar planning.
My favorite comment about this subject is from a poster at TPM Caf:
I once quipped that you could build a stronger case that Paul Wolfowitz and other neocons were more loyal to defense contractors than to the U.S. or Israel.
Shez @ 85
I read somewhere how concerned some folks are about Iran initiating this type of (Euros) action.
THIS JUST IN:
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Valley Girl @ 74:
Yes, I meant the US Treasury, and no concern whatsoever by Cheney-Bush about the outcome once the money hose was connected.
Valley Girl @ 88
Even spelled correctly, it’s the same alarmist handwaving we saw in 2004…and for that matter, I seem to recall right-wing alarmist handwavers running around like Chicken Little over Clinton martial law scenarios. I think GSD has it correct–Bush hasn’t the manpower to pull it off, and could very probably jump one shark too many by trying. Besides which, he’s already played the fearmongering card well past the point of public desensitization. Not going to happen.
EvilDrPuma- actually, I was just correcting the spelling, not putting forth an opinion. Being lazy on that. I happen to agree with you.
Martial law? For martial law, wouldn’t he need, like, an army or something?
anjinsan @ 81
Could be Anthrax. Could be a subway attack with some kind of nerve gas. Or could be a hyped red alert based on a fictional Repug plot that (they say) required shutting donw the country — for our own good, of course.
I don’t know. I just have an uneasy feeling in my gut as I wrote in the last thread. These guys have spent decades trying to consolidate power. They’re motivated by what they haven’t yet got. So why let a litte thing like democratic process stand in their way.
Valley Girl @ 95
My mistake; I didn’t think you were trying to advance any other opinion. I just figured I’d kill two birds with one stone. We’re all lazy here.
Phil K @ 96
Ahh.. there’s the rub.
itwasntme @ 55
this works out EXACTLY the way the oilmen in the whitehouse and their buddies the saudis wanted. someone else earlier pointed out that oil was under $20 a barrel in 2000, now it averages around $80 (and will hit $100 before it ever sees $60 again).
CHAOS is what was sought, because CHAOS is what roils international markets, like, say, that for oil.
one important point: the people who are running the country are neither as stupid or incompetent as we believe, or as brilliant or geopolitically savvy as they think (though that doesn’t stop them from blowing love kisses to themselves in the mirror).
i have no great faith in our ability to oust them from office, because they have had three election cycles to figure out how to game the system in as many of the 50 states as possible. even so, it says here that the folks at the top have overreached, and that somehow, if only through the law of the pendulum, we can wrest this government back from these criminals.
So why let a litte thing like democratic process stand in their way.
Only because they can get away with it now. Everyone gets away with it until they get caught.
EvilDrPuma @ 98
Well, after all, it has been an exhausting news week, what with all the PathCo. stuff, no?
Valley Girl @ 64
I’ll take (2), but not in the sense of a “huge upside” — more like what Phil K implies with “Plan C” … at least the selfish objectives would have been achieved, and they’d figure out a way to bluff through the rest somehow.
TeddySanFran @ 33
Haven’t caught up on all the threads today but earlier today someone said the speech was posted on huffpo. This is Kerry’s post re his speech. I don’t know if additional info is posted.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..29042.html
Shez @ 86
I think the threat Chavez poses is also that he wants to deal in oils euros instead of oil dollars (as did Saddam)
Valley Girl @ 102
It has been a heck of a ride.
OT – Someone knew how to plan and I’m not talking about Bushco.
Ex-Taliban chief details assassination
Five years after the Taliban opponent was slain by a bomb hidden in the camera, a former Taliban official on Saturday described how al-Qaida staged the killing — two days before the Sept. 11 attack on America — hoping to strike a fatal blow to the pro-U.S. Northern Alliance.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ng_massood
After we chased bin Laden in Tora Bora. Pakistan sent troops to the border. Until this…
http://www.discussanything.com…..-2823.html
Pakistan pulled it’s troops from the border and sent them to the Kashmir border. I’ve never seen anything in print to suggest it was al Qaeda but I don’t believe in coincidence either.
Phil K @
96
Martial law would cost him the base, cos they wouldn’t be allowed to keep their guns.
I e-mailed AA and let them know that from what I had deduced from “Triumph of the Swill”, I mean “Path to 9/11″ that AA was negligent and did not take the terrorist threat seriously and that I would not feel safe on their airline.
I said that the ABC “documentary” indicated a lack of seriousness in the fight against terrorists and if they didn’t stop hiring lackeys who let terrorists on board their planes to carry out attacks I would fly elsewhere.
Hence their reply.
-GSD
GSD @ 110
I like that part about “higher than normal email traffic”
You can’t make sense out of any of this without realizing that before the invasion, the Clusterfuck gang was totally convinced that there would be a month of resistance- and then on to a celebration in oil. It never faintly occured to ANY of em that this thing might get sticky. That’s why they didn’t give a shit about lying to go in- no one would ask any questions after the incredible bloodless victory.
Cozumel @ 107
Does it really matter who it is? Whatever the ideology behind it, or perhaps just simple greed, what does ever really justify murder? Practically nothing. So terrorism isn’t just political. It’s social. The only sort of agency capable of handling terrorism, is law enforcement.
Swopa…
Thank you for the post! It was, as usual, quite good. You do make me think. And I like that.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 10
In the real world it is the big countries that tell the little ones what to do, not the other way around. From what I could tell reading the Israeli press in 2002-03 there was pitifully little analysis of the upcoming Iraq war. Yet everything suggests that it was Iraqi exiles, Chalabi and his ilk, who lured Cheney into there, if he needed luring.
For more on big and little, see the 1996 manifesto, “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” (by Richard Perle and many of the usual suspects: click HERE). It maps out a strategy to remold Israel into a neocon mock-up, starting and ending with an attack on
Labor Zionism is socialism, and, as forecast, Israel’s economy has veered sharply to the right since 2001, just as has happened here in the US. The peace agenda too was shut down at that time. Sharon followed Bush into power, not the other way around, and it was Bush’s decision that killed peace talks after Taba, sealing Israel’s miseries ever since.
A truer picture of the dynamic is coming to light. The Walt-Mearsheimer article on the Israel lobby (HERE) was found to be provocative but too pat. It’s has led many to toss the broad brush and paint a more nuanced picture of the lobbyists’ place in the Jewish-American landscape. None of it is news to knowledgeable Jews, who’ve long pegged AIPAC and JINSA as neoconservative mouthpieces, now bizarrely joined at the hip to Christian Zionists, a bloc far more promising to the Bushoviks than American Jewry, which votes against them.
Lebanon II helped as well in its way. It generated such fabrication and complicity in war crimes by the neocons that many Jews, including Jonathan Tasini (of Israeli ancestry), decided to straighten the American public out on what many if not most Jews think. Sy Hersh’s New Yorker piece on the run-up to that war shows the flow of influence, which ran out of DC, not Tel Aviv, as common sense would lead one to think.
The point of this is not to let Israel off the hook but to put its current politics in the light in which we see our own: as hijacked.
In exchanges with Israeli peace activists I often remark that our two populations are sure to come to their senses in tandem, which is how they lost them. They are like partners sharing a bed, each in a restless sleep, jostling the other. When you’re in this situation you have two options: incorporate the other into your worst nightmare in an effort to stay asleep; or wake up to what’s really happening. The second is much preferred, particularly when it’s getting late.
Swopa!!! Thanks so much for responding to my comment and to Phil K’s added option. So it looks like it’s
3) BushCo/ RumCo: Plan A- we will be greated with flowers and candy, and Plan B- (there is no plan) = if Plan A doesn’t work, at least our selfish objectives will have been achieved, and we’ll figure out a way to bluff through the rest somehow.
Thinking about that Plan C I mentioned, I remembered something the columnist Richard Reeves (I think) wrote about Bush: He acts like the worst thing that ever happened to us is the best thing that ever happened to him.
I guess this Reeves quote was in the back of my mind. The plan is, let whatever happens happen. The worse it is, the more money Halliburton makes. The worst thing that ever happened to the Iraqis, to our Republic, to our childrens’ future, is the best thing that ever happened to Haliburton stockholders.
rwcole @ 110
The “Awe” doesn’t last very long.
Valley Girl @ 88
Thank you for the spelling correction. Boy am I tired.
Phil K @ 96
an army — or mercenaries.
I know, I know it sounds nutty. But the Bushwhackers know what they’ve done. And they know that if Dems take the House or Senate or both, their goose is cooked.
They’re calculating, cold-heated sons of bitches and they’re on a crusade — control of the world’s major oil regions, riches for the rich, hardship for the poor…
What we’ve seen from them in the past five years bears all the trademarks of an authoritarian movement. Why would they suddenly say, OK, we’ll go with whatever the people decide.
At every critical juncture in this administration’s history, they’ve had something up their sleeve. PT9/11 may very well be part of it and what else they’re up to is anybody’s guess.
anjinsan @ 113
I don’t disagree with you. My point was bin Laben had a plan, A, B, and C if necessary and it worked. He’s alive.
rwcole
a month of conflict and then no questions asked… you are so right… that timing tells us why Valerie Wilson was expendible… Cheney wanted to keep the questions fuzzed up until the conflict was forgotten
they were planning on Judith Miller beating the war drums against Iran they counted on the Iraq Demonstration to make the Iranians cower and roll over… That was the Iraq post war plan… On to Iran
alittlemusicalityplease @ 98
ths is the october surprise I was talking about
let me tell you something, this administration is abone NOTHIGNG, it MIGHT be a nuclear explosuon
Read somewhere is my ‘blogtravels’ that Rove plans to spend well over 90% of their campaign millions on negative ads against dems on ‘personal’ and ‘local’ issues. They have investigators out to almost every district where there is a competitive race to go after every single personal question, and slam them with it using over $90 million.
The negative ads and secret groups dousing any flame of independence will be overpowering.
I sure hope and pray are dem candidates are READY this time around. They have been warned, and should be prepared. I am thinking particularly here in MN of Klobachar against kennedy. His ads are going negative already and will get much worse. They really believe here that Kennedy can pull it out.
alittlemusicalityplease @ 117
Makes you wonder what the agenda was for Cheney’s double super secret private energy policy meetings with oil co chiefs.
Hey all- I had missed GSD’s email from AA, because I was only refreshing comments. So, for anyone else same, please do an F5/ reload the page to see that. VG
Rove and Ken Mehlman are about to pry the lid off of the cesspool and deluge the country in the biggest pile of trash and filth in history of America.
They would rather destroy the nation than lose. It was called a “scorched earth policy” by warriors of the past.
Now they are planning on sowing the fields with salt.
The Bush/Cheney adminstration is about to pull out all of the stops and ruin dozens of lives. The nation is going to be swiftboated. The final battle for the soul America is beginning.
The Empire Strikes Back.
-GSD
hey Firedogs !
ok, so why didn’t Scheid or any of those generals in the room with Rumself out him on this ?
personally, I think a lot of of these guys have bought in to Duty, Honor, Country, they truly believe they are duty bound to those serving under them – yet here is The Civilian telling them they will go forward with something each of them knows will result in thousands of casualties and they do nothing ?
not a veteran myself, I do understand there is a military mindset that does not question authority and I’m not being cavalier about careers here – I know Rumsfeld made sure plenty of em never saw that fourth star, but surely this was a case of preventing an avoidable slaughter of their troops
not rhetorical, hoping someone with a better grasp on that mindset/environment can provide me with a why – this is Paths of Glory shit and someone owes 2900 american families an answer on this one
One of the tenets of the neocons was that knowledge was an obstacle to policy.
They distrusted and derided area specialists because they thought 1) they didn’t understand the wider strategic arena and 2) they had gone native. This made them dangerously myopic.
They thought of countries much as they might appear on a Risk board, essentially interchangeable pieces in a game. They thought that they could go in with our bright shiny army, remove Saddam Hussein and a few of his lieutenants, and turn the whole enterprise over to someone pliant of their choosing, like Chalabi. They failed to take into account regional and sectarian differences.
Just as importantl, they failed to recognize that Iraq while a secular state had no history of democracy, had suffered through 30 years of dictatorship, 2 disastrous wars, and 13 years of punitive sanctions. Iraq was a hollowed out police state. There were no civil institutions left. Take out Saddam and there was no one and nothing to turn the state over to.
Rumsfeld couldn’t be bothered and it was all left in the incapable clueless hands of L. Paul Bremer to spin straw into gold. It didn’t work and they can’t to this day figure out why.
(moderator has taken liberty of putting in paragraphs for easier reading of this. Hugh, let me know if you object and will re edit)
windje @ 122
Did you happen to read Juan Cole’s post on Wednesday, 9/6 where he talks about the Strategic Ellipse of Oil Reserves? Pretty interesting reading and his map says it all.
alittlemusicalityplease @ 128
Thanks for the heads up – I haveen’t been there for a few days.
GSD – at 125 – that is exactly what is happening. A huge battle is looming and everyone — blogs, DNC, dem leaders (looking… looking for them…) candidates one and all, had better be suited up and ready. Do not take anything from them. And we had better be ready to fight on all fronts.
This fight over the movie is only the opening volley. We might have lost the battle to pull the movie, but they heard our guns and bruised a few reputations.
windje @
109
But if elections are cancelled because of martial law, W doesn’t need the base anymore….
GSD @ 125: I checked out that article at Raw Story. It’s actually good news. If they thought they had anything good to say about themselves, they’d be saying it.
This seems to be about keeping up a show that convinces their base to keep on keepin’ on. How else to explain their massive efforts to scare Americans with the shocking fact that Nancy Pelosi is (gasp!) a woman?
A diary at Kos has some of the most outrageous clips from path to 9/11 up right now. Go look. Forward the link to Bill Clinton et al if you have their email addresses:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..24838/1442
Swopa – awesome post! It’s great to see someone tie it all together like this.
OT – and this may have been covered earlier… via Pam’s House Blend, Bill Clinton’s attorney sent another letter to ABC and he is pissed:
more letter here
TeddySanFran @ 131
With the NSA controlling or monitoring everything, however, I’m not sure they would need any guns. They wouldn’t shoot you, just kill your cash and credit accounts which are just computer entries anyway.
Secret laws, secret courts, war is peace, freedom is slavery, big brother loves me.
But if elections are cancelled because of martial law, W doesn’t need the base anymore…
I would think if he tried to cancel the elections, he’d need his base more than ever. But I don’t think they’d be there for him now.
sadly, I don’t think they need to cancel the elections since even with a Dem majority, there will remain a neocon majority
it’s going to take a few election rounds before we have any chance to completely clean house
GSD “Triumph of the Swill” is the best. Is Mickey Reifenstahl Leni’s illegitimate maus?
If you watch the European trailer for Pt911, you will see that Clinton, Albright, and Berger will soon be the proud owners of Iger, et al. You really couldn’t ask for a more blatant case of defamation, slander, libel. Doesn’t matter what the movie tries to be, the advertisement for it is a complete and boldface misrepresentation.
The US is isolating itself at it’s own expense if it goes down the Neo-Con road.
new thread – TRex in the house, with the mouse
Pach’s offering up Late Night…”The Mouse That Whored”
The show is set to start in a little over 4 hours here on NZ’s public station. Finally, this morning we heard on the radio news that there is “controversy” and that ABC is trying to get last minute edits in time for tonight’s showing, but even if they don’t arrive in time, the show will go on, because “the station already purchased it from ABC.” They said it will be shown with disclaimers. Apparently a law prof up in Auckland is raising holy hell about it.
I was reading in James Loewen’s Lies My Teacher Told Me (a critique about American History texts), about the power of image and myth in the creation of false narratives. That, of course, is what this fight is all about. Disclaimers and tiddly changes won’t alter the narrative this program is trying to foist on not just the US, but the world.
Nice work.
I worry that in our happy snark about Repug incompetencies we may overlook the fact that these may well be deliberate, and that the Repug controllers are still being remarkably effective in accomplishing their vile agendas. I trust Shields is right (great name for a soldier), but let me quote a post I made to This is Rumor Control in 2004:
THE ELEPHANT IN THE LEIBENSRAUM
The ’04 vote had much more to do with the heartland’s lust for a couple year’s worth of our gross national product, than anyone dares to mention. The Elephant in the Livingroom (Lebensraum) is crunching civilians under its endangered feet like peanut shells, yet only The Lancet seems to notice. The oil under the ground will still be there anyway, even if we bomb the last Iraqi to pieces; their blood will only sink an inch or two into the dirt and will be blown away with the hot dust. At least a near-majority of US citizens has chosen that those years of putative oil wealth will have a United States armed guard (perhaps even their son) daily covering the oil spigot. (It can be a tough logistics problem, that with the dead bodies, but the nazis solved that and these guys are taking their cues.) That’s all they have ever cared about, is the oil. When in the first days of the invasion they occupied the Oil Ministry and its wells & pipelines, and nowhere else, they were stating by their armoured body-language that looting is encouraged everywhere else in Iraq. The error the left made was to think that cheney and rummy simply hadn’t planned for the occupation. What if this was the plan? Anarchy in the country means no Iraqi lever to control the oil, no money. The bushies don’t even really contest this.
Sadly, I think it may be a mistake to think that more than half the bushvoters are really stupid; I think as Doonesbury indicates that they like Smirky McGod feel properly Roman, and entitled to their gasoline. The greedy eyes may have it in this election, while they steal the right to vote from people like me in Ohio and Florida. But there are a lot of us who will contest this election, perhaps for decades, but certainly for longer than the next four years.
I dOn’t really want to be right about this.
Thanks Swopa, we needed that.
I have been busy signing petitions,spotlighting(what a wonderful feature)and emailing my local ABC station. Also, emailed Steve Jobs. I can’t give up my Mac. But my two grandsons won’t be getting ipods for Christmas as planned.I also have been watching the games on ABC and not one promo about 9/11 crapudrama. Thanks Jane and Christy! FDL rocks! And keeps me from going postal.
Yours is a profound post. My reading of the AEI and PNAC documents is the same as yours. We were going to have a “regime change,” a ubiquitous phrase they used over and over. The Defense Guidance/Bush Doctrine has as element four – something about spreading democracy. But there was no plan about that. It was something of a patriotic add-on. The centerpieces were “unilateralism” and “pre-emption.” We were going to show the world that we were the big guy in town, and Saddam was the chosen regime to change. There never was any plan about “after.” We were out to kick ass and take names. It was based on the mistaken delusion that Reagan had done it, so lets go!
“Mission Accomplished” was exactly what they thought. We showed them! There really was no plan, no goal, no thought about “after.” Now we live in “after,” so Bush is retrofitting Iraq with the War on Terror or other phrases he’s heard in old war movies. We have speculated endlessly on their motives – oil, power, who knows what. Their motives were no deeper, no more thought out, than those of the fourth grade playground bully. “I’ll show those [expletive deleted] who is boss!”
The hardest thing to believe is that, without any serious thought about the consequences, they actually did it…
Great post, Swopa. This was always about projection of power and control of Iraqi oilfields.
One last point, I hate to be a thread Nazi, but dammit – it isn’t “Marshall Law” like the Marshal Plan or something. It’s “Martial Law.” Martial as in military. As in, troops occupying our streets.
I recommend to you all to look (if you haven’t already) at the maps in Ralph Peter’s piece on http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899
I agree with the sentiments mentioned around the edges that this movie is only a precursor of what lies ahead in this campaign. I am also amazed how tight the financial lid has remained on who paid for this movie. They may be surprised we are fighting back this time, who really knows, but they are still playing it to a world wide audience. I plan on fighting every day through Nov. 7th. and after courts support stolen elections. No more!
NZ Expat – So good to hear from you.
Naomi Klein explained it back in 2004, a brilliant piece that still holds up. I forgot about it til someone diaried about it on DKos just today or yesterday.
http://www.harpers.org/BaghdadYearZero.html
History Lessons
Before 9-11, settling the Arab-Israeli conflict could have gone a long way toward resolving the growing divide between America and Muslims around the world. And immediately following the horrific events of that day there was an opportunity to “force” both sides to give a little and move toward a difficult but acceptable arrangement for the establishment of a Palestinian state in return for recognition and acceptance of Israel.
Yes, terrorists, chiefly al Queda, had already begun to focus there attentions on the US before 9-11. And the Arab-Israeli conflict was only one of many grievances they held toward the US. But convincing the Israelis to compromise even just a little, would have forced moderate Muslims to see that although US was willing to use all of its power to go after terrorists, that our leaders were also willing to recognize the “legitimate” concerns of millions of Muslims. Instead, the Bush administration gave a free hand to Sharon to deal with the Palestinians in his own, often harsh and deliberately belligerent way.
With the current leadership in the US it may be too late to prevent the clash of civilizations that the neoconservatives and their rabid following in the “wingnutosphere” seem to so desperately want. The attack on 9-11 provided the neocons the perfect opportunity to demonstrate to the rest of the world just how “tough”, the US is. After 9-11, the overwhelming majority of Americans wanted nothing more than to destroy al Queda, and anyone who supported them. Invading Afghanistan was the right thing to do. But for so many who still believe this, the idea that it would be done so incompetently just did not occur. It is now obvious that what would and should have been a success story is far from it five years later. Totally eliminating the Taliban would not have been easy, but the recent resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan would not have taken place without the eagerness of the Bush administration to shift its focus to Iraq. Ignoring, or at least not maintaining adequate resources in the struggle against the Taliban and al Queda was a serious failure of leadership and foresight that will likely haunt the US for years to come.
How could our leadership not have learned from the Soviet failures in Afghanistan? The Taliban and al Queda certainly did. Rather than stay and fight many of them fled as quickly as they could across the border to Pakistan, and the havens they were so familiar with from the struggle against the Soviets. Now that they have had time to recover, “they’re back”! They have returned with a vengeance, and they’ve even had the opportunity to learn new tactics by watching the success of the insurgents in Iraq.
The Clinton administration certainly bears some of the responsibility for the problems confronting the US today. The Lewinsky affair undoubtedly diverted attention away from more important matters. Of course, the Republicans who tried so relentlessly to destroy Clinton, also contributed to the problem. If the Clinton administration had been as aggressive as many now claim they should have been, they would have been accused of trying to divert attention away from the presidents personal problems. Let’s not forget, that was exactly what happened after the bombing of Sudan in 1996. If one were to try to cast blame for the mess that Afghanistan became, allowing for the rise of the Taliban and a safe haven for al Queda, we need to look back to the Bush Sr. Administration, and its failure to pay any attention to develops following the Soviet withdrawal, and the ensuing civil war.
More lessons from history that Bush the history major has not learned.
The purpose of the war, or anything else this Administration does, had nothing to do with national interest or any theory of foreign policy.
The purpose was to get Bush re-elected. And it worked. Before he was officially running, he told his would-be biographer that wartime presidents are always re-elected.
The reason so many different justifications are given by the Administration is that they cannot admit the true justification.
They had a plan all along: http://www.devilducky.com/media/44421/
Have any of you read the story recently in the NYTimes on Symbol Susan – Susan Lindauer. She is Andy Card’s second cousin…..very educated…and tried mightly to avoid the Iraq war. She tried to intervene and got herself in trouble with Bushco… Guess we tend to be naive when we think we can actually help avoid a war……..I admire this lady..but it’s a sad tale.
here
with respect, the iraq occupation is planned chaos, and the purpose is to control the flow of oil.
go alternative!
peas!
None at 152 links to a vital article.
The absence of a plan and the nave belief that Democracy would just spring up is a conservative ideology that goes back to the Cold War. When the USSR fell apart, they just assumed that a modern liberal democracy would just spring up to replace the old system, as if that was natural somehow, as in rooted in human nature. The fact that the Soviet system was replaced by mobster capitalism and oligarchic cronyism doesn’t seem to have caused them to question the theory that any society, once rid of its Evil Dictator ™, automatically, naturally becomes just like us.
I am still surprised at how the Neocon, or just plain “Con”, mindset is still using all this Cold War stuff they need to frame their world view. “Islamofascism” and “totalitarian” Al Quaeda are just the latest spinoffs.
Anyhow, one of the real tragedies of all of this is that in Iraq, unlike the USSR where we really didn’t have much of a handle on the situation anyway, besides deciding to heavily fund the mafia for several years, in Iraq we probably did have the resources and the leverage to set up modern institutions.
The neocon/con idea that capitalism and democracy are somehow not cultural or historic, or even political (God forbid!), but just deep down Human Nature, are I’m sure a big part of why there was no “Phase 4″.
Before the invasion of Iraq, there were a couple of things that caught my attention.
In the final days leading up to the war Saddam Hussein agreed to go along with all U.S. demands, he surrendered while attempting to maintain face. The neocons ignored his capitulation to their demands.
Saddam Hussein contemplated basing his oil on the Euro rather than the dollar. It was definitely the wrong idea to consider, according to the wheelers and dealers running the show. U.S. economic interests partially depend on fossil fuels being traded in dollars.
The administration was not incompetent or stupid; it simply let greed blind them. Iraq was supposed to be an easy target that would pay for itself, so the only plan it had was to loot Iraq.
Prince Bandar advised Bush to pay the Iraqi soldiers three months’ pay, feed them, and clothe them at a cost of around $200 billion, and there would not have been an insurgency; but Bush and company wanted to do the war on the cheap. After all, it was supposed to be easy, or rather, that was what they wanted to believe.
The plan to loot Iraq and America for special interests, as irresponsible, arrogant, and wrong headed as it was, it was the plan. The rest they just made up as they went along. Iraqi Freedom, Iraqi democracy, rebuilding of infrastructure, and winning the hearts and minds were all after thoughts to disguise their motive.
How could Bush and company make the right decisions when people who stood to gain from America’s involvement were feeding their personal intelligence pipeline?
It was the real intelligence failure. The administration was duped into going to war for interests apart from those of the United States. They went on an imagined profit binge that was similar to gold fever. Incredibly, they found words to justify their actions.
Their intelligence sources told a few members of the administration exactly what they wanted to hear. This was possibly one of the reasons that OBL wanted the current administration to remain in power. OBL could have believed that the neocons were easier to deceive and were more predictable.
It is unbelievable that Americans continue to think the administration is stronger on national security, then the democrats, but if using a blunt instrument is a measure of strength, as opposed to the use of a scalpel, then I suppose it is. Their goals are similar, except that using a scalpel, the patient lives.
I’ll tell ya, being able to tell the future just sucks sometimes.
I hear that loud and clear.
It’s just the price we pay for refusing to let Apollo bugger us.
Considering what was done in Lebanon…me thinks a pattern….Cross us and we’ll leave the chaos (democracy), worked perfect, ruined country payback oh Sultania. Sounds neo-con to me.
Can you imagine what it would have been like trying to fight this administration without the internet??? The power would have been so much harder to fight after he deregulated ownership of the media. No wonder they hate clinton so much. He was a tremendous threat. The corporate dynasties at the top don’t need a middle class. They need a lower class. They need an upper class but the middle class is just like that 10 year old child that is focused on you and how you behave and won’t let you get away with hypocrisy. That 10 year old who knows enough to call the police and to tell the truth. The ten year old with eyes about the world. They hated clinton because he empowered that 10 year old segment of society. He made us bigger and stronger. That is a great threat to the likes of these folks.
Steve @ 140
Hahahahaha!
Mickey’s 11th hour Angstfrage: “Should I shoot myself between the ears with a German Mauser 98K rifle just like Josef Gerbil.”
none @ 152
Not only does it hold up for Baghdad, None. Naomi Klein’s upcoming book on “disaster capitalism” show’s its a total mindset. (See her articles “The Rise of Disaster Capitalism” and “Pay To Be Saved” in The Nation.) Masked as reconstruction, it is, as one observer notes, “Not reconstruction at all — it’s about reshaping everything.”
You see it in Viceroy Bremer’s proudest achievements: continuing Saddam’s restrictions on labor unions and implementing a flat tax.
With Paul Wolfowitz, our “just add bullets” democrat, at the World Bank, you can be sure Lebanon will be another pawn in this game — if, that is, it doesn’t get Iranian funding.
Naomi brings this all to bear on post-Katrina “relief,” following the money to Bechtel, Shaw Group and Blackwater.
Another case in point is Israel. See the “Clean Break” paper I link to and quote from upthread (#155).
This design to remake the world is the core of the neocon worldview. 21st century capitalism’s first big idea is: Destroy, then put strings on rebuilding. There’s money to make coming and going, and you end up with a world remade in your own image. What’s not to like?
Late to the party, Swopa, but I wanted to congratulate you on a typically incisive post on Iraq. You are hitting quite precisely on many of the things that are really at issue with the war and its devising.
And of course you were one of the first (indeed, only) to point out in a systematic fashion that the neocons never had the slightest — not the slightest — interest in “promoting democracy” in Iraq, and that everything they have done prior to, during and after the war has in fact been (hamhandedly) designed to achieve precisely the opposite.
Cheney and Rummy had been planning to attack Iraq since Desert Storm. I don’t think it is any mystery why Cheney decided to hook up with Haliburton, a company in a unique position to profit from an invasion of Iraq. Most major analysts on Wall St said the US should invade Iraq to protect a source of oil. It is imperialism. Iraq was a money making scam just like everything else Bush and Cheney have done and to some extent they have succeeded. I think Cheney is worth something like a 100 mil now. But it’s not over yet. Events have not turned out anywhere near as well as the stupid aholes thought they would.