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I don’t quite know what Joe Lieberman or his proxies — GOP operatives like Dan Senor and his shadowy Veterans for Truth 527 — think they have to gain by reminding people of Joe’s bungled war, but somehow they believe it’s a good idea to do so. Their ads, featuring veterans thanking Joe for putting them in harm’s way (while his own kids sit safely back home) began running yesterday.
Lieberman claims no association with Senor’s group, but sources say that Steve Rattner — who has been raising funds for the Lieberman campaign — is telling people that if they have maxed out to Lieberman, they can still give money to Senor. Sounds kinda cozy.
The bellicose, non-serving, deferment-laden millionaire junior Senator from the Lieberman for Lieberman party will not denounce these efforts by Republicans to swift boat Ned Lamont, according to the successor to the muzzled Dan Gerstein, Tammy Sun (affectionately known as "the Sunster"). If not, then I’m sure they’ll have a nice, big tall glass of STFU when they see the new ad running in Connecticut papers by the veteran’s group, VoteVets:
We Pledged Our Lives to Protect America’s Freedom
When we were called to serve in Iraq, we did not ask questions.
We kissed our families good-bye and went to do our duty.
But when it comes to war, we all depend on our elected leaders to do their duty…and to ask our government tough questions.
What is our military mission in Iraq?
Where are those weapon of mass destruction?
Why were our American troops sent to Iraq without the proper equipment?
When will the victory come?
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2 in one day? I feel it in the force!
NED !
A mere lurker getting in at #3. How about that.
Have-it-both-ways-Joe keeps whining about the fact that he is a Democrat. If so, why is he allowing Republicans to use him like a cheap tool?
A rhetorical question. Cheap tool is as cheap tool does.
It walks like a GOoper
It Talks like a GOoper
ergo..
but we knew that
Because he’s their cheap tool, that’s why!
i miss [dangerstein]
TeddySanFran @ 6
I’ll never look at a particularly dashing mug of beer without thinking wistfully of those bygone days…
Counterpunching the swiftboaters is going to be a full time gig for the next two months. Good for the VoteVets! A reality gut check to the opposition!
OT – but I just saw this at TPMmuckraker:
Those calls paid off!
As if ex-CPA Iraq $hill dan senor needs the money.
http://www.LiebermanForLieberman.com
for the blog-minded: http://www.BlogofJoe.com
not to be confused with http://www.BlogJoe2006.com !
http://www.journalinquirer.com…..#038;rfi=6
~~ A group of 11 military veterans from Connecticut who support Democratic senatorial candidate Ned Lamont demanded Wednesday that U.S. Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman “denounce” television commercials produced on his behalf by a Virginia-based organization with ties to former Bush administration figures, Vets for Freedom.
But Lieberman’s campaign spokesman, Dan Gerstein, said today that the three-term incumbent now running as an independent was “proud to have the support.”
“Only the Lamont campaign could turn a positive expression of support like that into something sinister,” he added.~~
http://www.courant.com/news/lo…..ines-local
~~~The ad seems innocuous enough: Four Connecticut veterans appear on the screen to thank Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman for his support of the war in Iraq.
But Democratic Senate nominee Ned Lamont’s campaign Wednesday compared the new television spot to the notorious “swift boat” ads that smeared John Kerry during the 2004 presidential campaign.
Lamont campaign chairman George Jepsen said the content of the ad is less noteworthy than the identity of the group behind it: Vets for Freedom, which is advised by former aides to Lieberman and President Bush.
“What this shows is the extent to which, once again, the Bush administration and the far right are backing the Lieberman candidacy,” Jepsen said.~~~
“…I’m sure they’ll have a nice, big tall glass of STFU…”
Based on the babblin’ I’m hearing from CT, I guess Joe must have fallen off the wagon, doncha think? *g*
Lieberman never served in the military. He’s another ‘Nam deferment dandy. I’d just like to see him take a stroll outside the green zone in Iraq and have a whiff of the stink of death he helps promote.
Well, I could not contain my curiosity and I finally managed to pay joe2006.com a little visit today.
Unf*cking real. The juvenile blog, I mean. Whoever is running this campaign (Hadassah?) really does not have a clue.
God almighty, Jane. That was a good post. Just before I came here, I was on YouTube, watching all the Ned Lamont Commercials, so I’d just seen the one posted above. I watched it again here, because it was so well done.
It’s a poor craftsman who blames the tool………..
many American families are sending their 19yo kids off to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan. The Liebermans just sent their 19yo off to Israel for a year of study ! None of their 3 older kids ever served in the military either…
Is there some way to kick in $ to Vote Vets so they can run that again? It says what needs to be said.
Moderator can you do some cleanup two threads back “from the” at the 175. and beyond. Thanks
OT *ilson- special message re: spam for you in mod.
Dangerstein and Tammy Sunyungmoon and fraudulent pollsters – only the Lieberman crew.
OT – courtesy of Talkleft – text of letter to Specter about the surveillance issues.
How does Feingold do it?
Look at the signatures. Sunnunu, Salazar — I know Feingold isn’t claiming this as “his” but, you know he’s been point man.
According to Dana Milbank, there’s a Lieberman Caucus protecting their lad from the other Senate Dems during lunchtime in the caf:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01808.html
I guess we know who’s next!
OS- can’t find. Title of thread?
*ilson46201 @ 19
_____
2,662. It’s a number. Just a number. The number of non-Lieberman family U.S. troops killed in George W. Bush’s Iraq to date.
19,688. It’s a number. Just a number. The number of non-Lieberman family U.S. troops wounded in George W. Bush’s Iraq to date.
0. It’s a number. Just a number. The number of non-Lieberman family U.S. troops killed or wounded in George W. Bush’s Iraq to date by Saddam’s WMD.
http://www.bgladd.com/Just_a_Number.jpg
_
Old Sow @ 21
Yes, indeed. more than one. Old Sow, that was right public spirited of you. These people don’t want to engage in debate. They want to throw rocks. I think I’ll make it a practice to go through the archives from time to time. A lot of people come here to read the discourse. If they see that crap, they’ll leave and miss the real discussion.
After everybody leaves, Lindy. Cowards.
Valley Girl @ 25
VG, http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..sed-to-it/
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09…..r=homepage
Armitage admits involvement. Did this get here yet?
Why is he allowing Republicans to use him like a cheap tool?
Cheap tools will get yer Knuckles busted.
tommy yum @ 28
Yes, indeed.
*ilson46201 @
19
More accurately, many Afro American and Latino families are sending their kids off to fight in iraq. In bad economies, enlisting in the military is about the only “decent” employment available. Gee, you think that might be a factor in the neocons willful destruction of the middle class? Is it truly a volunteer army if there are few other options for the volunteers?
Just wondering…
Tammy Sunster was no doubt here…
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/32630
Let’s see, just what fits Joe the best?
Fumbling Joe?
Stumbling Joe?
Mumbling Joe?
Grumbling Joe?
As this is a multiple choice quiz, you may choose one or more answers. *g*
helina handbasket @ 33
No doubt there are a lot of minority kids enlisting, but just fyi, this economy hasn’t been good for Anglo families either, and I know a bunch whose kids have joined up. Just sayin’.
I don’t see Senator Clinton’s daughter shipping out for Iraq.
VG :From the dept of we’re not going away
When is the “Holy Joe is such a NICE man” facade going to fall by the wayside and disappear? Are the Independents in Connecticut “independent” because they don’t like either party or because they simply don’t have any convictions? It’s hard to understand how Joe’s supposed 90% pro-Democratic voting record can translate into votes from abortion-hating, war-loving, stem-cell adopting Republicans. As for so-called “independents,” PLEASE get a life and see Joe for the egotistical, self-serving, pander-master he has become. He will NOT represent YOU in the Senate. He will represent whatever is best for JOE! And that includes kissing Bush’s behind and selling out our brave soldiers so that he won’t ever have to admit he was WRONG about supporting Bush’s illegal and immoral war!
OS- okay I got it!!!!! Omigod!!! One of those I have not seen the like of before. The second, ordinary troll stuff!!!! Thanks much. Heads up like yours are always MUCH appreciated!!!!!!
This hits so close to home…today, one of our most beloved teachers found out that her future son-in-law is dying of brain cancer. He is ust 21 years old and had been serving in Iraq for a little over a year. Personally, I believe this has to do with depleted uranium, but I’m sure the truth will never be told. And so life goes on for the Joe Liebermans of the world who refuse to own up to their scandalous votes to go to war. But more than that Joe and his cohorts in crime refuse to admit the error of their ways. For shame!!
AAAAAHHHHHH, abaraka moderator! (blessings)
When is the “Holy Joe is such a NICE man” facade going to fall by the wayside and disappear?
Probably about the same time as “John McCain is such a maverick straight-shooter”…
Eli @ 43
OK, so we have about 8 years to go…
The Nefarious Leslie @
36
Agreed. Still, percentage wise, in relationship to population, the military contains a much higher proportion of minorities.
Jenny from the Blog @ 44
Alas, this is what I’m afraid of. The media really hates to change out their narratives once they’re installed.
for that matter — Jenna and not-Jenna still aren’t in the military or any of their cousins.
An entire generation of Bush chickenhawks…
Start the draft. That’ll stop little tin-horn cowboy demagogues from starting their little wars. If this is such a righteous war (Iraq) why aren’t the Bush twins in the Baghdad?
Tommy Yum–that aw yeah, from earlier, you don’t listen to the dreaded GB do you? LOL
Bookwoman @ 41
____
Unlikely to the point of nil. Mutagenic/carcinogenic effects of rad toxins like uranium by-products take many, many years to occur.
Not that depleted U isn’t toxic, long-term.
_
Well, *ilson @ 19, his son has got to study the politics and keep his seat safe for the future:
‘blah, blah, blah, son of the nice, great and patriotic amurkin Joe Lieberman– champion of war without end but who couldn’t give a crap about women and children or regular Americans is going to School. He is yer future leader!
(Plus they got a speech coach somewhere who can get the warble war cry jest right!)
oh and cluster bombs are da bomb!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 48
It’s a catch-22, though. If *Democrats* are responsible for reinstating the draft, they’ll end up taking the blame for it instead of the Republicans who made it necessary (but refused to admit it).
Bobby G, But DU is not just toxic on radiation, it’s toxic on airborn Heavy Metals.
Lieberman – *I get along with people, that’s why I support cluster bombing civilian targets*
Eli @ 52
_____
The Bushies would outsource the boots-on-the-ground thingy to 3rd world mercenaries first. There is ZERO political stomach in the U.S. for conscription.
_
BobbyG- you forgot to mention that you are a statistician, so I will do so. And, Bookwoman, the story you relate is so very sad. Hit me in the gut, it did.
According to a Kos Diary, a law firm is pulling ABC ads for 7 days!
God i love that VoteVets rebuttal ad…. very powerful. hope they use that ad (or something similar) in other close house/senate races. Would make an awesome tv ad …. paging moveon.org!
Couldn’t drop in earlier, and don’t have time to read comments, so I’m assuming you know all about Joe’s indicted pollster, eh? Fraudulent results for Joe and King George (yet another sickening way that they’re joined at the hip) included telling poll staff to “include cats and dogs in the polling” to get the results they wanted.
[Believe you me, our pupster would give any pollster an earful about Georgie AND Joe. We are proud human caretakers of a smart Demo-Dog! Tandy knows a scurrilous, untrustworthy cur when she meets one!]
On the off-chance anyone doesn’t know about the indictment of the pollster, here’s the link:
http://news.aol.com/elections/…..3409990001
Old Sow @ 53
____
Agreed, but, again, mutagenasis leading to malignancy is a slow process.
_
Mary4- are you still reading? Has anything changed in the last 24 hrs. re: laptop posting? If you haven’t used your laptop in the last 24 hrs, please try. I NEED feedback!!! xxoxox
timewarp @ 57
Finally! someone is taking legal action!!!! Libel these aholes.
Eli @ 52
That can be solved. Just draft only Repugs.
Oh oh…now Canada is goin’ to be mad at me. *g*
I’ve been waiting for a Boltin’ Joe thread. I assume you’ve all seen this, from driftglass:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blo…..reak.1.jpg
I can’t stop laughing.
Old Sow @ 49
If you mean Clusterfuck, I can’t even look at him on TV with the mute on!
Campaign Against Depleted Uranium
http://www.cadu.org.uk/info/11_1.htm
BobbyG–You are better informed than I.
TY–there’s an “aw yeah” “conceit” on Glenn Beck…okay, I will wash out my mouth (with Pinot Grigio–LOL) And I’m with you–and we don’t even have TV.
Eli @ 52
Your logic is compelling. Perhaps then it becomes a matter of priority in the larger sense. If, accepting for the moment that instituting the draft will help put an end to illegal foreign adventures, and thus reduce death, is it then not in the interest of the greater good to do so (bring in the draft)? Even though it puts election goals in peril? Perhaps I’m just musing here, but I do place a premium on the waste of human life in servitude to an unjust cause. I don’t know. There’s no easy answer.
Frightened Americans is both a terrorist and a republican goal.
.
Mommybrain, link doesn’t work.
Just got this via email:
Oooh! Here’s a fresh, breaking report from WaPo –
Another federal judge refuses to dismiss (another) electronic eavesdropping suit!
US District Judge Garr King (Oregon) this time.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01060.html
Lots of exciting news today! It’s impossible to keep up! Who turned on the event-accelerator?!?
pluege @ 69
The former Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave is now exhorted by Presidunce Eminem to be the land of Perpetual Code Brown Bedwetters.
_
Mad Dogs @ 63
You want the middle class and the campus kids to take notice, a draft is probably the only way to get their attention.
It got my attention back in 1969 when the draft lottery was instituted. I’ll never forget watching that black and white tv and the people who got low numbers not too terribly happy about that.
pluege @ 69
Fascism makes strange bedfellows, doncha know?
Mrs. K8 @ 72
YAY OREGON!!
Fartacus ain’t too popular ’round these parts.
Gladly kick him in the toobz.
I know we mentioned George Mitchell here earlier, but did we actually put up his contact info yet? I don’t see it in the “not going away” post. Think Progress has it up:
Reminder that Mitchell is a potential ally, so please be polite.
Your logic is compelling. Perhaps then it becomes a matter of priority in the larger sense. If, accepting for the moment that instituting the draft will help put an end to illegal foreign adventures, and thus reduce death, is it then not in the interest of the greater good to do so (bring in the draft)? Even though it puts election goals in peril? Perhaps I’m just musing here, but I do place a premium on the waste of human life in servitude to an unjust cause. I don’t know. There’s no easy answer.
My dour prediction would be that if the Democrats instituted a draft, it would ensure a giant, filibuster-proof Republican majority, which would immediately repeal the draft. Lose-lose.
It’s good to see Lamont sharpening his message. To reach the full electorate in the general, he would have needed to expand his messages from those that were sufficient in the Dem-only primary.
I hope he pushes the argument further, to say that it’s not just the current morass in Iraq for which Joe should be held accountable. The broader message is that Joe’s proclivity to support the entire Bush approach of preemptive war in the middle east — and his unwillingness to ask the tough questions (thanks VG) — is likely to lead to broader wars in Iran and possibly Pakistan.
The neocon view is that we ought to be fighting Islamists throughout the whole region, and that all resistance groups — shia and sunni, in Lebannon or Gaza — are all the same. Joe’s uncritical endorsement of that neocon/Bush view should be highlighted as a reason why Lieberman’s judgment cannot be trusted — and for that matter, Dems all over the country should be making that argument about Bush and Republicans in general. These people have us bogged down in one unwinnable war, and they’re trying to scare us into expanding the mistake — and with which troops? IMO, that argument is the Dem’s best offense, and an effective reply to the current Bush effort to recast the issue as the WOT, in which all parties are equated with al Qaeda.
The Nefarious Leslie @ 70
Try pasting the link into your browser instead of clicking on it.
Mrs. K8 says:
our consciences prompted by our founding fathers:
and
(Can’t edit comment in blasted IE – Mitchell is former Senate Majority Leader and current Chairman of the Board at Disney.)
windje says:
NO LIE, darlin’!
Never been so relieved to be a xx-chromosomal-type in my life as that day in 1969 when my birthday came up No. 1 in that first lottery! Lord, lord, hadda toke myself into grateful oblivion that night . . .
*ilson46201 @ 47
Remember the 2000 presidential campaign when the Bush people trotted out “P” — Jeb’s son, George P. Bush — and went on and on about how cute he was? “P” disappeared from the scene the moment we went into Iraq.
Well, I made the “train-wreck-pilgrimage” to the blog on Lieberman’s campaign site, joe2006.com. They really do have a post wherein Ned is labeled a flip-flopper and John Kerry is slammed. My comment to that post:
You mean this Dan Senor?:
1. Former Coalition Provisional Authority
chief spokesman
2. Contributor to Fox News.
3. Former intern for American Israel Public
Affairs Committee (AIPAC)
4. Senior associate of The Carlyle Group.
5. Brother of Wendy Senor Singer, head of
AIPAC office in Jerusalem.
windje @ 74
windje- I remember that very acutely as well. And, although it is not a time I wish to return to, it seems that things in this country have gone way beyond the horribleness of the Vietnam era. So, I would not like to see the draft come back, recalling those days, but now, this might be the only way forward.
8.2ontherichter @ 85
I try to keep abreast of things, but this blows me away.
OT *ilson, thanks for the reply to my mod question. I have read, and left further questions.
The Nefarious Leslie @
70
Try this
http://driftglass.blogspot.com/
scroll down to the last pic in teh osama bin hitler post. god, I love driftglass.
Angie (71), perfect: “Please send a message to ABC: Stick to the facts.” (Peter Rundlet)
NefLes-GO TO Mozilla-Foxfire, download, and edit will work
angie –
I’m always happy to see excerpts of my two most favoritest documents in the whole world.
The Preamble is especially dear to me. In grade school we Catholic kids were given “Preambles” to write when we committed rule infractions.
Talking in class without permission? “That’ll be fifty Preambles written neatly on my desk tomorrow morning!”
I was such a “chatty cathy” I ended up with a virtual copy of the Preamble on my closed eyelids in short order — I can still see it there to this day!
See? Sometimes from disobedience comes enormous civic pride!
8.2ontherichter @ 86
O*U*C*H
Mrs. K8– bless you!
Valley Girl @
85
Compulsory or draftee military service is not necessarily the wrong path. As long as people like bigtime can’t get deferred around it for ‘other priorities’
Sending a representative sample of the populace to war would bring out a whole lot more executive and congressional branch introspection.
George Mitchell is former Senate Majority Leader and current Chairman of the Board at Disney
I believe George Mitchell is on the Board of Directors at Disney, but is not Chairman.
Whoa — looks like I’m wrong. Kos has an Action Alert targetting George Mitchell, Chairman of the Board at Disney.
2nd Update —
Mrs K8–that’ll be 50 preambles, what sort of a school did you attend?
Thanks angie!
Let me take this opportunity to thank the whole wonderfully supportive FDL community for your prayers and good thoughts — I am certain it helped so much:
Tandy just had her second ultrasound exam of lymph nodes, and:
As far as can be detected, she is still free of metastasis! No further cancer found!
So, bless YOU angie, and all the wonderful friends here who supported us when we were so very worried.
From Joe’s blog:
WASHINGTON (AP) – Democrats applauded, a Republican colleague gave him a hug _ Sen. Joe Lieberman still has plenty of friends in Congress.
But no one kissed him. A sad day.
The Dan Senor of CPA who seems to have lost $9 billion.
xoxoxo Mrs. K8 and hugs to Tandy!
-ck- @ 95
Disney Chairman George Mitchell will reach the board’s mandatory retirement age of 72 on Aug. 20, 2005, more than a year ahead of Eisner’s planned retirement as CEO on Sept. 30, 2006.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/…..sney_x.htm
Old Sow –
A terrific Catholic parish grade school, staffed initially by Franciscan sisters (Irish), and then by a small, esoteric Italian order (who taught us Italian phrases whenever possible).
“Buon Giorno, Suor Superiore! Come sta?”
OS,
Had to put the kids to bed.
Glenn Beck is a braying jackass.
My “aw yeah” is much more Sly Stone than that.
Start the draft? Please don’t make me cut my son’s toe off.
Jenny (and others) – on George Mitchell, maybe it will work, but I have lots of relatives in Maine who got pretty fed up with Mitchell after he began making a bundle off of big tobacco. In my family he is considered a big sell out! He got alot of heat for that but it didn’t make any difference. I think Jobs is a better bet.
Justathought, EPU’d from previous thread:
From the “funny how things come back to bite you in the ass department”: If the 911 commission hadn’t capitulated to GOP demands to thwart the public from seeing the ENTIRE commission report in order to afford Bush a smokescreen for his lies in the 04 campaign, a lot of this mispresentation/confusion would never have seen the light of day.
The dem leader letter to Disney is great, but this is what happens when you let something like the freakin’ 911 Commission report be politicized in the first place…
tommy yum @ 103
Mine is more Barry and Levon…
Richmond,
I’m not sure either one is the best angle, but I agree Mitchell is probably the weaker of the two, for sure.
ccmask @ 107
Or any daughters. I bring this up once in awhile, if they try to bring back the draft it should and will include women, females, wives, daughters, granddaughters. The Rethugs hide that fact.
So Joe and George share a pollster?
tommy yum @ 106
Hoorah. I confess here that I sometimes listen to FAUX news on the hour and it sometimes spills over into Beck’s foul radiosphere before I get back to WERU….LOL..I went to Sly’s concerts at the Harvard Stadium in the 60’s or early 70’s–yes, I can’t remember, I was really there. LOL
Holy Cow!
I may be late to the party with this one but CNN reporting that Richard Armitage told CBS today he owes the Wilsons an apology!
(of course, he also said that he let down the President and the Secretary of State, so, ya know…)
Richmond @ 108
You may be right, Richmond! Sorry to hear that about Mitchell, who I respected for the Good Friday Accord.
OTOH — who says it’s “either/or Eh? Let’s hit ‘em BOTH. (And anyone else who makes a decent target>)
Eli @ 78
Again your reasoning is sound. The reason, I’m sure you know, that we don’t have a draft, is that Nixon, in calling for an end to the draft (for purely political reasons) wanted to capture the 18 year old vote. I don’t think that either party necessarily has the will to bring back the draft. But in the end, they may have no choice. The U.S. is having a terrifically difficult time with recruitment. What then is the choice? Murtha just the other day, I believe, called for the re-institution of the draft, because I think he sees the handwriting on the wall. People are getting wise to the Iraq fallacies and failures. So there seems to be only two options: stop the Iraq war, and cease starting other wars or bring in conscription. That is, if one wants to have enough bodies on line in the front line of future planned or for that matter unplanned foreign military conflicts. And if the two parties are eventually forced to bring back the draft, I would proffer that a very desirable by-product, if you will, will be to reduce the temptation to commence another fiasco like Iraq. Parents of draft age children won’t put up with that level of shared sacrifice. The lessons of Vietnam and Iraq will remain all too fresh.
Eli @ 112
ROFLOL..what we iconoclasts miss……..
everhopeful @ 116
More bullshit for the wingers to claim that the Plame affair is a non-starter. This PT911 thing must be killing them!
Jenny from the Blog @ 108
yep
My keyboard is acting up again. Argh. I will have to go find the other one stashed somewhere in this house.
So far this looks ok, but I can’t reliably control upper/lower case or punctuation
be back asap
And, has anyone started a major campaign yet to boycott sending their kids to school on Monday & Tuesday to avoid the Path to Propaganda movie lesson plans?
ccmask– I know how you feel. I remember when my big brother was eligible for Vietnam and I told him I would stomp on his foot right in the arch area so he would be flat- footed and therefore not wanted.
Now it’s different– they’ll take anyone (skinheads, ex cons, gang members). We should have learned by now. If the backwash believers and the elites were not immune (and I know the believers just believe the elites and are serving, too)– it could work.
They need to awaken.
Off to watch KO. Stay cool y’all.
Shez @ 111
not if Phyllis Schaffley has a say about it !
Oklahoma kiddo @ 116
I think instituting a draft *after* the war, or after troop levels are below a level where draftees are needed, would be the only way to go.
Hopefully there would be enough principled and appalled Republicans to make it bipartisan, but I won’t hold my breath on that…
KO is one the main reasons I wish had cable. Have to view vicarious or what gets picked up by Crooks & Liars
Shez! That’s a great idea! A booklet burning….
Whaddya bet Chimpy waits one hour after the new Dem Congress is sworn in and then submits a bill to re-institute a draft?
Draft or not, if we don’t get competent people in place in govt, American children are at risk.
Richmond @ 126
Richmond, you’re not missing much. C&L does a great job of bringing us the best of KO. I have cable but never watch… one reason is for every great thing he does, Keith’s show also has a lot of junk, in my humble opinion. :)
With this administration, it seems like they are trying to keep kids from enlisting with all the bad methods they are using. If t was up to them, the Blackwater guys would be best. They can recruit poor young boys from foreign nations, pay them $34 bucks a day and rip off the coffers for 20 times that. And, they don’t have to answer to anyone but their CEO’s.
OT You probably saw that $469 Billion was just allocated to go get Osama – a little too late? I thought the whole Iraq venture – to get Osama ;-) – was to cost us a little over 1 billion. Or so insisted the neo-cons. Do I smell an election in the air? !!
Sean Maloney
Kicking ass and takin’ names on KO about the GOP-O-DRAMA
Mary4 @ 128
This is true, but if there’s a draft, the incompetents are more likely to pay a price.
The trick is how to get from here to there without making the Democrats a permanent minority party. Again, I think they should try to institute a draft *after* the Iraqi occupation is over, or much reduced. They could tout the fairness (especially if they close any upper-class loopholes) and unnecessary-war-prevention aspects of it.
Jenny from the Blog @ 129
You’re talking about Dana Milbank, of course…
Eli -
You’re talking about Dana Milbank, of course…
Why yes, yes I am! (and also some “human interest” stuff that doesn’t really interest me…)
*ilson46201 @ 124
When I was in law school, as a condition of getting my student loans, I had to register for selective service even though we didn’t have a draft. If you didn’t need a student loan, you didn’t have to register.
As always, the children of the privledged (like Jenna nad not Jenna) never have to be put at risk.
Jenny from the Blog @ 135
So you admit you’re not human.
everhopeful @ 114
Call me cynical but contrition is a great way to avoid being named in a lawsuit, just saying.
OK, I lied, the 469B wasn’t all for Osama – but it was for the sort of briliant Pentagon initiatives that we have seen these past few years. I can’t even count to a billion with out really trying hard!
Sean Maloney – is he the one that was running in NYC?
OT – Laura Rozen has a great piece on the issues of the Bush torture doctrinesWould Bush Make Congress Choose Between Letting Murderers Walk And Endorsing Torture – sure.
Even so, that’s on one piece. THe other piece – we all get to sit back and watch our government take children (under 10) hostage to use to threaten their parents – beat and torture, violate beyond any issues of ambiguity the UCMJ and Geneva Conventions – all with no one even mentioning it. Bc no one wants to be seen as defending a monstrous malignity like KSM.
So the other issue is – does Bush intend to flaunt his crimes knowing that we have no national will left, because of the internal destruction of law from our own government. Sure again.
Valley Girl @ 61
and also some “human interest” stuff that doesn’t really interest me
LOL – are you saying what I think you’re saying? *g*
VG – I haven’t tried to post from it. I will try, but it won’t be for several hours (when I get home). I’ll try though – here’s hoping with fingers crossed.
I can’t wait until all the blogs start pushing for paper trails & voting.
Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you’d like to hear it I can sing it for you.
Mary -
Yes, I am a fembot. *g*
Huge crowds of volunteers are out in full force for Ned Lamont!
http://nedlamont.com/blog/1346/rockin#comment
I will be back up in CT every chance I get. I encourage everyone here to get involved in Ned’s campaign in any way they can. Thank you.
Eli…5:02pm
“I think instituting a draft *after* the war, or after troop levels are below a level where draftees are needed, would be the only way to go.”
We have a back-door draft now. Why? Because the military cannot get enough bodies. This is cowardly and grossly unfair. It seems apparent that “troop levels are below a level where draftees are needed”. If bush wants to keep prosecuting this war, then something has got to give.
Did Armitage apologize to Karl Rove too – and to poor Scooter?
I wonder if, with the apology to the Wilson’s, they are going to erase his name from the PNAC docs it appears on?
timewarp @
10
Bitchin. I wasn’t looking forward to having to hang my Clifford plush in effigy.
Mary4 @ 142
Thanks much. Please try with and without whatever proxy thing, and take notes. You are #1 on my case work list, because yours has been such a long-standing and confusing problem!!!!
ccmask @ 144
by now, that seems to be conventional wisdom — do you know of any blogs that oppose it ?
*ilson46201 @ 153
Paper trails for posting comments?
Time for a battery recharge…
Have a good evening, humans. :)
OT *ilson- another updated request for you in mod com.
Mary4 #141
Stay the course, legalize the illegal NSA wiretaps, make tax cuts for the wealthy permanent, renominate John Bolten, legalize Bush’s torture programs and joke military commissions. These guys are like career criminals. They never change, they never reform, and they never compromise.
lotus @ 128
And that would be about 1/2 hour after the new Dem Congress impeaches him?
So sorry Junya, but too late!
Political Wire
WCBS-TV has obtained EPA and New York City documents that show the Giuliani administration was warned privately by the EPA that the air quality at Ground Zero was toxic, yet the city still reopened Lower Manhattan in the days following 9/11.
“They knew the toxic soup created at Ground Zero was a deadly health hazard. Yet they sent workers into the pit and people back into their homes.”
*ilson, I’m not sure it is conventional wisdom. There is a difference between being *for* something and actively championing the cause, as opposed to not saying anything against it.
*ilson46201 @ 153
In the recent Denver primary election, they had new Sequoia Touchscreen with Paper Trail voting machines — very cool units, and are just what the doctor ordered.
Now, if we can just secure the vote tabulation software, which is the biggest vulnerability.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 147
Sorry, I think I may have misspoke – I was talking in terms of force reduction, or troop *requirements*.
I agree with you completely about the situation, and I would prefer to see it addressed *now*, but unless realists take over the Republican party so that a draft can be instituted in bipartisan fashion, I just don’t see how it can happen.
One other thing about the Republican side of this – it need not all be principled antiwar Republicans, it could also include crazies who want enough troops to invade Iran.
Mrs. K8 @ 99
Hallelujah! Great news, Mrs. K8!
ccmask @ 143
I’ve been pushing for electoral reform for at least 15 months, but I’m not what you’d call… influential.
We talk about paper trails but there hasn’t been a big push like today and ABC for instance, is what I meant.
OT but worth a read on the Disney matter
http://americablog.blogspot.co…..atens.html
Jane — interesting that in the Courant article on the Vets for Truth add, Tammy committed to denounce any ad that was an attack ad.
http://www.courant.com/news/po…..tics-state
So the Lamont campaign managed to extract a quote from JL’s press lady that can be used if JL or the Vet group try to use more aggressive ads in the future.
Well, I got a paper trail. I bring my camera when I vote.
Jenny from the blog is from Illinois! Heck born in Oak Park “wide lawns narrow minds ” as Hemmingway said grew up in Crystal Lake in the hell of an all white neighborhood! Escaped to Seattle but still, Illinois is the center of the universe! Yeah we are better than Human were from Illinois!
Dan Senor is also recently married to Campbell Brown of NBC
mOropeza @ 167
I am Devo.
I understand that Scholastic has changed their lesson plans, that’s all fine and dandy. They still get no sympathy from me.
It will never excuse the fact that the teacher Discussion Guide page had commercialized type ABC ads for the FABRACADABRA Mickie Wingnut Propaganda Extraordinaire. The only thing it was missing was a Flash Neon Marquee for it and a free coupon for Pop Secret.
Talking about Dino Demo sellouts, get a whiff of this from http://www.thinkprogress.org > two stories down under brain dead media:
Remember Democratic Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell of Maine?
WTF is he doing at the head of Disney and it’s Fakeumentary???????
New Target: Disney Chairman George Mitchell
Over 50,000 ThinkProgress readers have written ABC in the last 48 hours about “The Path to 9/11.” We’re going to keep the pressure on ABC, but we’re also broadening our focus today to the Walt Disney Company, which owns ABC.
Disney’s Chairman of the Board is former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell (D-ME). Senator Mitchell has a long and distinguished career both inside and outside government and he knows how important it is to accurately represent historical events.
We need to remind him that 9/11 was a national tragedy, and that politicizing and flagrantly misrepresenting the facts about 9/11 is wrong.
Senator George J. Mitchell
T: (212) 335-4600
T: (212) 335-4500
F: (212) 335-4605
george.mitchell@dlapiper.com
(Remember to be polite, and please copy us at tellabc@americanprogressaction.org so we can keep track your comments.)
ABC is feeling the pressure. Let’s keep it up.
Lotus,
(from yesterday “fiction” thread, sorry for the OT living on a different time zone does not help)
Thanks ! Indeed the small fellow (Luca) looks mighty cute…
Concernig the recipes… I have missed the pull-up-a-chair thing some many times already… so here you can find some examples for your personal fun :
Let’s start with a first plate : PASTA!
Pasta alla “carbonara”
Ingredients for 4 persons
Preparation :
400-450 grs of spaghetti (150-120 grs per person), 300 grs of bacon (it should be fresh and with a “good” fat content, in Italy we call it “guanciale”), 4 eggs (1 per person),1/2 a spoon of oil, “Parmiggiano” Cheese grated (you should really get the real one from over here, the “Grana Padano” type is a good alternative, but if you have to use a local alternative you have to choose a “old” cheese that can be grinded and watch out that it should not be too salty), salt and pepper, 1/2 spoon of milk cream.
Brown the bacon in the oil , after cutting it to small pieces and let it to become slight golden coulored. It the meanwhile put only the yolks of the eggs in a “terrina” (open top non-metal container) with 4 spoons of parmiggiano, salt , pepper and the cream. You boil the spaghetti, drain them and immediately mix them with the eggs and the bacon. Everything goes back, for no more than 2 minutes, in frying pan until’ the eggs are curdled. Season with additional Parmiggiano and abundant pepper.
A small segret : when cooking the spaghetti just add a 1/4 of spoon of the boiling water to the eggs and mix it to avoid those annoying small clots the eggs would otherwise produce when you add the hot spaghetti and the bacon. The same goes for the 1/2 spoon of milk cream: it helps getting a smooter sauce but you can leave it out if you want.
If you want this is the most “American” pasta you find: the legends goes that it was invented in Rome after the end of WWII when the only food around was, more often than not, the one handed out by the USA soldiers. So the “Carbonara” was put to together with the tipical military food ration (bacon, water and dried eggs). That’s just one of the possible origins (someone dates it back to the Romans…) but it sounds too good to left unsaid on a post for a USA blog…
Since we are talking about pasta here some “pasta 101″:
- The pot for cooking pasta must be quite large (27-30 cm)
- The past must always (well nearly) be cooked “al dente”, so for spaghetti this means from 5 to 8 minutes depending of their size, NEVER more than that, pasta must stil be opposing some “resistance” under your tooth (”dente”) when you bite it … if you get what I mean. Overcooking pasta is a capital offence … at least on this side of Ocean :P
- NEVER break the spaghetti in two parts, when you put them into the boiling water you can easily bend them inside the pot
- Take the water to then boiling point, add salt (ALWAYS to be done and done with raw salt, not the refined one: about a scarce handful for a each liter of water) and ADD THE PASTA ONLY WHEN THE WATER STARTS BOILING AGAIN !!!!!! Do NOT put the pasta in at the beginning and take it to boiling point with the water… shudder… please do not do it ! :(
- To cook pasta you really need a “scolapasta” to drain the pasta from the water. (see the photo here http://www.fotosearch.it/ICN184/f0013464/)
Here comes the second plate … look out this takes a while to complete…
Coniglio in Salm
(Salm Rabbit)
Ingredients for 4-5 persons
1 rabbit of about 1400 g
200 Cl of full-bodied Red Wine (for the marinata)
1 glass for cooking (Chianti would be perfect)
1 slice of lard
1 spoon of sugar
1 small glass of Rum
1 spoon of flour
1 spoon of bitter cocoa (in dust)
150 g milk cream
1 1/2 spoon of minced onion
1 carrot
1 stem of celery
1 clove of garlic
1 sprig of rosemary
1 sprig of thyme
1 leaf of laurel
2 leaves of sage
3 leaves of basil
3 cloves
40 g of butter
3 spoons of oil Of olive
Salt
Pepper
Preparation :
Clean the rabbit and cut it into regular same-sized pieces. Free it from the bowels, recovering the liver, that you will mince apart; I personally add also some additional liver taken specifically for this because the liver of a single rabbit is never enough. Chicken or beef if do not find rabbit is fine. Put the rabbit pieces in a glass “terrina” (any open top non-metal container should be fine), cover it with the red wine, unite all the aromas (garlic, rosemary, sage, laurel, thyme, basil and cloves) and let it marinate for 48 hours. After this period drain the rabbit from the wine (that you should then throw away since it is mixed with the rabbit blood and not good anymore, not even for cooking) and dry it well. Then brown the rabbit’s pieces in a casserole where you will already have browned, in the olive oil and in the 20 g of butter, the onion, the celery and the carrot (minced) with the crushed lard. A small suggestion: when browing onion to avoid to burn it keep it covered (”affogata”, drowned) in wine (white one) so to avoid to spoil its taste as well as the taste of the whole plate you are working through. When the meat will assumed a uniform gold-like color you should bath it with some of the red wine (whatever left of the side glass is for you to drink ;P) and keeping the fire to a medium-low level, cook the whole thing for about 1 hour. Half way through this phase add salt and pepper (watch your doses the finished thing is quite tasty on its own).
Meanwhile in another casserole you have to melt the remaining butter, therefore you unite the sugar, the cocoa, the minced liver, the flour and the rum (keep stirring at the beginning or the flour is going to stick to the bottom of your casserole). Mix it well so that to have a salsa without clots and then you unite the pieces of rabbit. To the last moment you add the milk cream and leave it still on the fire for a few minutes, the time necessary because the whole amalgamate well.
For all you liver-hating fellows, no it does not taste like liver and you are going to like it anyway: I hate liver myself and everytime I cook this I end up licking the pots clean!
Serve it with bread (as soft and with as much crumb as you can, you need something to clean up the salsa… which by the way it is also very good if used to season pasta, for example “tagliatelle” with “salm”): in Italy that would be served with “polenta” (http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polenta) but bread is just fine.
Ok that’s enough. I hope you will enjoy the suggestions…
Peace everyone.
P.s. : I apologize to all the vegetarians out there , but my favorite recipes are quite rich of meat…Anyway if someone is interested I can post my recipes with vegetables… I have got also plenty of them ;P
P.s.s. : In my case lotus you should use “caro” and not “cara”… :P
P.s.s.s. : The above are mine own personally tested and tweaked version of those recipes: so the “official textbook” version may differ (gosh.. a disclaimer !)
P.s.s.s.s. : The casserole you are using to cook the rabbit : the larger it is the better it works.
P.s.s.s.s.s. : I hope my translation of the cooking terms is fine. I am bit worried about “to brown” that according to my dictionary should be the traslation of “soffriggere” o “rosolare”… If you have any doubts let me know.
P.s.s.s.s.s.s. : If any of the regulars see lotus later down the threads when I am soundly asleep in Italy (it is 2.30 am here) please send her back here. Thanks in advance.
Shez @ 110
Shez- agreed. Back in 1969, I would not have enjoyed being drafted. But, it was not a good time for anyone, given the stupid war. I remember feeling very strongly at the time that women should have been included in the draft- it was totally unfair that women were not also being drafted, and also, thus, having the opportunity to make their voices heard by resisting the draft to that horrible war. (hope this makes sense… typing quickly about a long ago memory)
Shez @ 121
I fricking love this site. Excellent point Shez.
looseheadprop @ 137
Experiencing a moment of cognitive dissonance … I thought only men had to register for selective service?
Oklahoma kiddo @
48
Oklahoma Kiddo, they’d just get deferments, like the daddy and uncle dick.
Much as I would like to see Jenna and not Jenna in desert camouflage, it ain’t going to happen. I’m a little surprised at the draft discussion. Politcally, it has much in common with Social Security. It’s a third rail.
One of the reasons that we can’t stay in Iraq is that our military can’t sustain the current troop levels. The strains are already beginning to show. The stopgaps have been used. Put simply, we will have to get out because we can not stay. A draft now is irrelevant. If it were done at all, it should have been done 3 years ago. Once we are out of Iraq or our forces there greatly reduced, the blowback from the experience will complicate any use of the military for years to come much like Vietnam.
Senate Democratic leadership threatens Disney with legal and legislative sanctions
http://tinyurl.com/ggndn
WOW, Kimba! Mille grazie!
tommy yum @ 118
Tommy – have you seen this CBS story?
Link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..1433.shtml
Jane: I tried to send you a heads-up yesterday, but your mail service (host fifi.ziaspace.com[68.55.245.32]) is refusing to accept e-mails from my ISP (Orange/Wanadoo – Europe’s largest) because it’s currently on Spamcop’s blacklist. See this Spamcop page for details. The blocked message:
1. http://www.insightmag.com/Medi…..erman2.htm
“GOP secretly channeled millions to Lieberman
==========================================
The White House funneled millions of dollars through major Republican Party contributors to Sen. Joseph Lieberman’s primary campaign in a failed effort to ensure the support of the former Democrat for the Bush administration.
A senior GOP source said the money was part of Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove’s strategy to maintain a Republican majority in the Senate in November. The source said Mr. Rove, together with Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman, directed leading pro-Bush contributors to donate millions of dollars to Mr. Lieberman’s campaign for re-election in Connecticut in an attempt that he would be a “Republican-leaning” senator.
“Joe [Lieberman] took the money but said he would not play ball,” the source said. “That doesn’t mean that this was a wasted investment.” …
____________________
2. http://www.pollster.com/polls/…..ace=Senate
- uses Macromedia Flash.
Looks like it might develop into a generally useful site.
(back to Blair-watching)
Pade @ 169
Seems poor judgment can afflict anyone. *g*
Bob Kerrey has finally popped up to say Disney should be “respectful” in telling the 9/11 story.
mOropeza @ 167
oops! No, I’m originally from Baltimore. That was just a quote from HAL of 2001 Space Odyssey fame.
He’s from Illinois. :)
PJB (UK)- any evidence that the Blair fall-out is going to impact Shrub/ BushCo.?
What happens if a large chunk of the 9/11 commissioners denounce PT911? Or are we there already?
Of course, I’d like to see some of the *Republican* ones denounce it too…
Hugh @ 138
arguendo that he got close to a million in a given quarter. Hell, for fun assume he hit a million in a given quarter,
Since 2003, we ar not at 12 quarters yet, and to my knowledge, there has never been a quarte where he even came close to $1 miilon for the quarter,
So, where does katie get this figure?
If I had to guess, I think they fraudulently included the entire salery of each member of team Fitz into the total.
EXCEPT all the folks on Team Fitz are reported to have regular full time jobs elsewhere in DOJ (Unlike the Starr bunch who where hires –at private law firm billing rates per hour–from the private sector). According to published reports, none of them recieved so mush as one additional dime for taking on a seconf full time job.
So Pat Fitz’s 140 Gs that he gets for being US Attorney isall he gets. No extra money for being Special Counsel. If they are counting his US attorney paycheck into KATIE COURIC’s lousy “reporting”. well I don’t think that’s quite cricket.
Ask the people of Chicago if Pat’s not holding up his end and working full time for the Northern District of illinois
What did i say to go into moderation?
jinny 179
Former Democratic Majority Leader Senator George Mitchell is Chairman of Disney. Do you think he would support this current Demo leadership move?
Don’t think so, he’s “cashed out” and fat dumb and happy on Corporate Guilder
P.s.s. : In my case lotus you should use “caro” and not “cara”… :P
Apologies, dear Kimba — ’twas your “a” that I misinterpreted. Medaka had to forgive me the same error for the same reason. And if it makes you feel any better, yours is my second case of this mistake today. (The other one went the opposite way, when I assumed that a TV-station programming manager named “Shawn” was a boy.)
looseheadprop @ 189
(runs to hug lhp — at last, a friendly face in jail here with me!)
??? lhp- no fuckin’ idea. ;) I am begining to suspect that there is a problem with too many paragraphs, but that is, alas, way down on the list of recent problems.
*xyz @ 148
May i use this comment as a lead-in to blogwhoring? I posted pictures from the Labor Day parade in Newtown, CT.
http://www.ykosfdl.blogspot.com
Eli your Devo…Cool! Illinois INVADED THE RED STATES ONCE DURING THE CIVIL WAR WERE THINKING OF DOING IT AGAIN! Do you want to sign up!
mary at 140
Sean Maloney is a former Clinton staffer who is running for NYS Attorney General to replace Elliot Spitzer.
He is the “3rd man” in a race with Andy Cuomo (ugh) and Mark Grenne (more ugh)
i don’t think Maloney has snowball’s chnace in hell at his point/ Denise O’Daonnel was the resume candidate having been USAO for the NorthernDistrict of NY,and she had the backing of some really serious player like Judy Hope and Marsha Laufer, but dropped out after the convention
Maloney has run this really kick ass web campaign (I learned so much watcjing it–he emails you these commercials on the web called “maloney minutes” mondo cool–everyone should do this) and he is the only one who actually bothered to educate himself about the job of AG and the issues he would face when in office.
I hope he runs for something again. He is really worth developing
windje @ 166
Holy shit. If ABC goes ahead with this, they’ll be thumbing their noses at Congress. If they think they can do this and get away with it, we need to show them differently. On this issue, we need to give unequivocal support to the signers of this letter.
I heard on the radio that Katie Couric was asking her audience’s help with a closing tag line for her show like Good night and good luck, for example). I wonder if she got one yet…
OK
Now I have two comments in moderation
whaT did I say?
mOropeza @ 190
Actually, I would prefer to surrender and let them secede…
ccmask- howsa bout “and where you on 9/11?” (trust you know what I am meaning here.)
LindyH 194
Don’t you think as current Chairman of Disney, former Senate majority leader George Mitchell could make things happen if he wanted to?
Jenny from the Blog @ 183
LOL…is that Mr. Hal 9000?
LindyH @ 177
If truth were told, I am very against the draft. I just view it as a way to perhaps, and I say PERHAPS, stop little jack-booted arm chair strutters like Cheney from these horrible foreign adventures.
Someone said above, I believe it was Mary4, that what is needed is “competent people in place”. Mary4, for my money, hits the home-run on this one!
Thank you Windje – That is some piece you linked to. Looks as if the topdog Democrats in the Senate have grown a few balls. Nice to see that. Everyone should read this letter posted on Americablog (link @166 above)
lhp- have you reloaded the page / F5 recently?
LindyH @ 196
If ABC goes ahead with this, I think they must be being “protected” by something bigger than Congress -that’s the only thing I can think of.
I think we really need to do some sleuthing and find out who the hell funded this thing – that should tell us a lot…
That’s a good one Valley. I’d sure like to help her out (if you know what I mean) :)
If ABC goes ahead with this, I think they must be being “protected” by something bigger than Congress -that’s the only thing I can think of.
Well, sure, they’re part of Disney.
Sorry Jenny from the Blog @185 my mistake, still I like your attitude/posts keep writing!
From the Americablog comments at the link above:
If the 9-11 Commission is the only authority of what happened on Sept 11, then we still don’t know anything about what really happened.
How’d Osama take down three buildings with two airliners?
WTC 7 was not even mentioned in the 911 Commission report.
A 47 story building falls in 7 seconds and doesn’t even get a footnote.
LindyH -do you live on Hawthorne?
Thanks lhp – that’s who I thought. He had some ads here for awhile. There have just been so many Irish names in politics lately, all out of my district & State, that I was a bit shakey.
Gentleman Jim @ 198
Jim, I don’t have a clue, and no access to that information. What I do know is they have my support, and can call on me to do what needs doing.
The Nefarious Leslie @ 176
I am definatle a womaan (and a soccar mom) and i filled it out every year for three years. Just sayin’
Scarboro is saying that ABCis going edit all the unfactual stuff out of Road to 9-11b
Scarboro creeper saying “ABC caving to Clinton”
google: Results 1 – 10 of about 3,560,000 for disney sucks. (0.08 seconds
Scar Boro giving Rush Limbaugh a repeat broadcast
looseheadprop @ 216
i think he hinted at that they were editing SOME of it… as it stands now
Joe admitting there are inconsistansies. But doesn;t want politicians “censoring” this.
looseheadprop @ 218
So it’s going to be a one hour special with commercials? Backroads to 9-11.
looseheadprop @ 216
Correcting falsehoods is censorship?
Fascinating.
i think scarborough needs to do a little more research before he begins spewing
Scar Boro is also saying that Iger is furious about this movie/
Now he is bashing Tenent
ccmask @ 208
Excellent point. It has been predicted for two years now that in Sept of 2006 that America would start waking up
be shocked sillyto the fact that there is nothing about 9/11 that makes sense. There is quite a bit of documentation out there of several things in the 9/11 Report that were either whitewashed, covered up, or lied about. This latest fiasco is going to put eveything right back under the microscope where it belongs. They can’t make a factual movie based off an unfactual Report in the first place.ccmask @ 208
Oh, thank you my dear. I have this tin foil hat, see… and I wasn’t even there…
Jenny from the Blog @ 183
Every year at UIUC they celebrate HAL’s birthday…
Scarborough’s big ol’ Freudian slip:
“I would NEVER listen to George Bush — er, George Tenet — about actionable intelligence.”
Apparently Iger ( Disney Chairman) ain’t too happy about this trainwreck per Scarborough Country.
I think the Senators and the Big Dogs barking woke him up.
joe Scar is the doing the last death gasp
John Fund is conflating the path to 9 11 with
West Wing
Why aren’t the talking about the $40 million!
looseheadprop @ 225
*smacks forehead*
1. I believe Mrs. George Mitchell is much younger than her spouse and that may be tres expensive for George (meow).
2. For $15M annually, Kitten Couric should be able to come up with a sign off. Typical Republican. Exploit the masses.
*ilson46201 @
12
*ilson, these are great web sites! Everyone needs to visit!
dude on scarborough – “the same people that are upset about this are the same people that were silent about the reagan docudrama”
now flip the coin over asshole – the people that are cheering this abc thing are the same that whined about the reagan thing.
2. For $15M annually, Kitten Couric should be able to come up with a sign off. Typical Republican. Exploit the masses.
I think you just came up with it!
twolf1 @ 234
And lets not forget that much of that reagan thing actually had facts on it’s side!
bdu @ 232
Facts are shamefully unpatriotic, and may possibly even hate America.
The draft is nothing more or less than slavery. There are no circumstances where it’s OK.
When the US genuinely needs troops to defend herself, Americans step up to the plate in droves. A shortage of enlistees only happens when people understand that the war is bogus and irrelevant to our security. Vietnam & Iraq, for example.
Eli @ 237
Facts have a liberal bias.
Valley Girl 185:
PJB (UK)- any evidence that the Blair fall-out is going to impact Shrub/ BushCo.?
seepeesate @ 234
Okay, so what about taking the opposite approach and outlawing all back-door draft measures?
From Dan Gerstein, on Joe2006’s blog:
“As some of you may have also noticed, our site has been quite a popular destination for our opponents. Our hope, maybe over-optimistic, was that they would behave in a civil and responsible way in expressing their disagreements. But as the Lamont campaign’s Internet guru Tim Tagaris predicted, the comments have been overwhelmingly snide and insulting, far more diatribe than dialogue.”
I can’t believe Gerstein is THAT dumb. Did he really think an open forum for people to state their opinions about Lieberman would be a NICE place?
Christ, how disconnected can these people BE?!?
OT (or would be if this weren’t FDL … )
NYT:
… Mr. Armitage, who has been criticized for keeping his silence for nearly three years, said he had wanted to disclose his role as soon as he realized that he was the main source for Robert D. Novak’s column, published on July 14, 2003, which identified Ms. Wilson as a C.I.A. intelligence officer.
But he said held back at the request of Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the prosecutor. “He requested that I remain silent,” Mr. Armitage, said.
…
If I was Tony, I’d stay off airplanes.
Eli @ 238
Or- That’s the way we photoshop.
seepeesate @ 236
Not to be a pain in the patoot, but their was a draft in the Civil War
Eli @ 243
I’m all for that!
looseheadprop @ 247
and in World War One and World War Two. Draftees were used in Korea.
A good sign off for Katie: Nothing to see here. Keep moving.
A TRUE draft can be egalitarian.
When Jenna nd not Jenna have to sign up, well watch Shrub find out fast HE doesn’t support his war
Lotus – I’m still dieing of hunger after your earlier Carbonara post. On Kitti Couric, she was so rude to Gore and Kerry, just snide, that I refuse to watch her any more. But if someone wants to mount an effort to get to her new TV station about her bias, I would be more than happy to sign it.
VG, you’re springing me wonderfully quickly tonight, and I really appreciate it!
looseheadprop @ 247
And in the World Wars and other times.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C…..World_Wars
PJB (UK)- thanks much for the UK update. Maybe Brown can send some sanity back this way. I lived in the UK for 10 years (a good while back), and tho I don’t keep up with politics there as much as I used to, I do have some basic backgound from those days. Thanks again.
looseheadprop @ 247
True, but if you’ll allow me to express a bizarre opinion — that wasn’t a war that should have been fought. It happened because a bunch of states wanted to exercise their Constitutional right to secede (because of taxation disputes — slavery was a side issue at best). The Northern states wanted to deny them that right.
Disclaimer: I’m no fan of the confederacy…
“… Mr. Armitage, who has been criticized for keeping his silence for nearly three years, said he had wanted to disclose his role as soon as he realized that he was the main source“
More semantic trickery on behalf of this Neo-con warmonger snaggletoothed Bush apologist.
-GSD
Richmond @ 248
Keith O has it under control. Tonight he pointed out that idf she continues to lose veiwers at her current rate in a couple/few weeks she will be down to 68.000 veiwers.
That’s less than FDL isn’t it?
CTBob- I sent you an email at your FDL addy, but no response. re: my friend in Branford who is willing to talk to you about her involvement in the House races. Can you pls. check that email?
Looks like Katie took Christy’s Pull up a chair:
Setting Sail: A Blog Is Launched
Today we begin “Couric & Co.” Welcome! I’m glad you found us. Pull up a chair and stay a while. There’s a lot going on in the world, and we have a lot to talk about. And I hope this little corner of the internet will be the place to do just that.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2…..7641.shtml
One difference between a draft and now, is that with a draft, you actually have to pay people. Taking National Guard people for this long term is just unconscionable – war on the cheap (and costly in lives). Plus you have all the outsourcing to the indep contractors/killers who can operate without chain of command or consequences. A real mess.
lotus- I’m not the only mod on duty tonight, but we try to do our best. VG
Oy, with the glorifying of the confederacy. “Nothing to do with slavery” is a rhetorical gymnastic used by every racist who wants to argue this matter.
-GSD
Richmond — thank Kimba1970, not I.
Wonder where I can scare up a rabbit, all nice and pan-ready . . .
Ulp. I know there are flop-ear lovers in this crowd. Nemmind — I’ll just dream over that recipe, not try it.
Hi Lotus!
CT Bob @ 244
Having been over there and checked it out, it is pretty much impossible to read their “blog posts” without laughing…my favorite thing is the “Read the Rest of the Blog Post,” which, if you click on it, reveals – usually – that the entire post was all of the three sentences on the main page – there is no “rest of the post” to read.
The bulk of what I read was quite civil, with real questions and comments, and of course, no answers. There is zero feedback from those who put up the posts. The level of discourse on the front page is right around middle-school – which may be an insult to all the middle schoolers putting out school newspapers.
It’s got to be a classic example of shooting one’s self in the foot, and it is so not helping Joe (not that I mind, but it’s just soooo lame).
and in World War One and World War Two. Draftees were used in Korea.
The salient point really is, Can a just and righteous war attract enough voluntary enlistees, or not? Would there ever again be a large-scale conflict requiring as many troops as WW2? Has our technological superiority and increased population base reduced the percentage of people we would need to volunteer? (Depends on who we intend to occupy, I guess…)
ccmask @ 250
or how about?
I’m getting paid $15 mill for this.
GSD @ 263
Well, that’s very true, but not exactly the argument I’m making. For the record, I’m very anti-slavery and anti-racism. :)
My stance on the draft is a result of that, actually. That it has been used in valid wars still doesn’t make it necessary or right, in my opinion.
one of the points of high technology warfare is to be able to do wars without mass popular support and consent.
looseheadprop – LOL :-) Wow that would be great. The sad thing, is that they would say that women can’t cut it. BS – but maybe this was the plan all along – i.e.getting women back to babies & housework :-(
Eli @ 243
Seepeestate…
There is a case to be made for the draft. Though I do not like conscription, one reason in favor of the draft is “fairness”. There are very few other reasons. Another might be the idea that shared sacrifice would perhaps lesson the drive to commence war. Back-door draft is is by definition not moral and shouldn’t be legal. If deferments were eliminated, except for medical reasons and very narrow certain other reasons, then the draft is not a form of slavery.
Kimba1970 and Lotus – sorry for the mistake. Must have been the drool on the keyboard and my gastric juices flaring up.
Well, my deep thanks to VG’s co-mod(s) too!
Yoohoo, cc! Getcher bedroom all swabbed out and dry after Che’s breaking & entering?
new thread
Oklahoma kiddo @ 271
How so? According to my dictionary, slavery is “The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.”
When you are in the military, whether drafted or not, you are literally the property of the government.
Anyone else have a large block obscuring #261 and part of #262?
Know whatcha mean, Richmond. Lawd lawd.
Armitage talking –
What is the deal with the timing? Supposedly he got his “letter” in Feb. He didn’t start talking then, though. When was he told he could talk, I wonder? No one seems to ask that. If he was told Feb, why nothing till now? Did he ask for a chance to tell “his side” with the book coming out?
It’s not a big question, but I wonder why people don’t nail down details in the questioning.
Richmond @ 265
You see the thing is, I didn’t actually mind. If my country was threatened, directly threatened, I was willing to do my part
Seep,
I didn’t mean to be too smarmy, but that very argument always lights me up. Slavery was the bedrock of the Southern economy, to argue that it was a ’side issue’ is just historically bogus, unless you are Trent Lott’s personal historian.
Great news to hear that the Disney folks are feeling the heat.
Fuck Wahlberg, Stephen Root and the Bad Lieutenant, Keitel too.
I will jeer them if I ever see them in public.
-GSD
scarecrow @ 277
It happens to me every time a thread hits that number.
Mary4 @ 279
Novak recently told him it was “high time” to reveal himself, and Corn and friend led the way. So he called Marcy, and she released him. ;)
scarecrow LOL
I’m having to backtrack. Apparently Stroebel did ask him (I love Rozen’s blog). Armitage says he called Fitzgerald Tues for permission – I would guess in connection with the book bits dribbling out. I wonder why he didn’t ask in Feb though? Oh well.
EW should get paid a personal trainer’s fee for all her time spent jogging their memories.
Robert Paehlke @ 20
Haven’t read the whole thread yet but on Vot Vets homepage and also IAVA homepage you can contribute to individuals or the group.
Vote Vets: http://www.votevets.org/
IAVA: http://www.iava.org/index.php
-ck- @
161
I would slam on the breaks for any electronic voting unless a large number of real computer scientists signed off on their tamper-proofness. Voting software with a flawed architecture is worse than none at all.
GSD @
283
Oh, I agree with you! I was trying to make a very narrow point (to avoid the exact morass I stepped into), and did it badly. Once again, I wish I were half as well-spoken as most of the commenters here.
tho i live in jersey i’m pulling for ned lamont to send slo-joe packing on his merry way! it seems he’s the new darling of the repugs so if he had any integrity he’d leave dems and be what he really is – a repug!! GO NED LAMONT!!!
seepeesate @ 277
If one chooses to enlist, then that person assumes responsibility for awareness of what will be required. “Chooses” or choice is the functional word(s). “Chooses” is what makes it not slavery. A draft, IF evenly, properly and fairly applied is not slavery. “Evenly, properly, and fairly applied” without regard to race, religion, gender, social, economic, political, or ethnic considerations, if strictly enforced, make it thus (not slavery). Utilitarian duty perhaps. Slavery? No.
Florida Mom @
175
I called the school today, they had no idea what I was talking about. Called the school board, same thing.
Might just do it to make a point. Thanks you guys!