
(Well I can honestly say this hasn't happened before. We had a wonderful day at the FDL Book Salon yesterday with John Dean, in which he took the time to methodically go through and try to answer everyone's questions. Of course he could only get so far given the time limitation and the number of people anxious to chat with him, but today he emailed me another installment of answers. If you didn't get the chance to visit the comment section from yesterday's thread it's right here, and it continues now -- JH)
Comments by John Dean:
At 107: David, you and I may only be separated by our analogies. When you we could only be a generation away from fascism it is not much different from my saying we have not gotten on the bus yet. (Needless to say, we hope the next generation does not travel that road – or get on the bus.)
At 108: “Given Dick Cheney’s penchant for expanded presidential power, why, in your opinion, has he never run for president?” Response: He has and could not get his campaign off the ground.
At 113: “But, something I’ve been thinking about for a few days is that the Framers themselves, at the time both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were adopted, had terrorists on their very doorstep! I refer to the American Indians. Families anywhere near the frontier daily faced the possibility of what Publius called “depredations” by “savages,” (Fed. #24) and we would call a terrorist attack.” Response: That is a really good point, Stuart Eugene Thiel!
At 119: “My question would be a variation of TRex, in that the pushback will come but is there a historical trend to look for as the act of pushing back once Dems regain a balance in Congress. In other words, who will these figures and their attacks morph into?” Response: The best thing that could happen would be a repeat of what occurred in 1925 following the Scopes Trial, when the fundamentalist simply withdrew from the public square. They would be happier if they did just that, and the political system would work better if they did not insist on mixing their religion with politics.
At 120: “How much of what is being discussed is a direct product of 9/11? . . . In other words, has this been a steady arc since Goldwater’s defeat, or an unpleasant but relatively recent shift (possibly beginning at the end of the Cold War)?” Response: As I explain in some detail in CWC, there has been a progression that proceeded 9/11, and 9/11 added to the legitimacy of conservative authoritarianism.
At 123: “Mr. Dean - do you believe there are enough new media outlets to counter the mind numbing propaganda they are spewing and will flood our airwaves with in the next 2 months?” Response: It is going to get very negative, for this (along with their carefully redrawn district lines for House seats, the get-out-the-vote army being mobilized by the RNC and the religious right organizations, and their money) is their only hope. Most House of the contested races it appears that the GOP candidate has substantially more money than his/her opponent, and they will spend it on negative ads. The growing equalizer – which we must all watch to see what works – is the Internet.
At 124: “I doubt that Bush/Cheney Team has done a serious risk assessment of anything…” Response: With all due respect, you are wrong. This sort of work is s.o.p. at DOD, OMB, and throughout the executive branch. I have seen conservative think tank studies which have not been publicly released making such assessments (although this information may well be publicly available now, for I have not looked). The problem is that this information is pushed aside or trumped by political judgments being made at the top. Cheney and Rumsfeld believe they know best, and the president doesn’t know what to think (and he sure as hell is not going to read risk assessments made by some mid-level bureaucrat.)
At 126: “Would you care to comment on possible impeachment hearings for any reason in connection with any actions or decisions that President Bush may have taken?” Response: I have little doubt that if the Democrats take control of the House that the Judiciary Committee under John Conyers will open an impeachment inquiry. It is not, however, realistic to believe that 2/3rds of the U.S. Senate would ever vote to remove this president, vice president, secretary of state, secretary of defense, or attorney general – regardless of what evidence the House might uncover. Impeachment is a purely political undertaking, and while a simple majority of the House can impeach, it takes a super-majority in the Senate that does not exist. But if the House did uncover unusually damning evidence – beyond the damning evidence already well known – it could make life very difficult for GOP Senators.
At 128: Thank you, Joe Wilson, for your kind words. I wish you well with your civil lawsuit. (Be patient, they take a very very long time.) I also look forward to your wife’s book, for all we really know about her is that she is beautiful, and she can handle young twin boys -- and an AK-47 as well.
At 129: “One of the most interesting premises that you offer in the book is about Dick Cheney rising to the level of his incompetence. I don’t know that I have heard, seen or read anything anywhere else that talks about that. It was stunning to me.” Response: I don’t use the word “incompetence” rather I call attention to his consistent bad judgment from the beginning of his career to the present. Incompetence connotes to me lacking skills or the wherewithal to do a job, and that is not the case with Cheney. He is extremely competent (i.e., able, smart, savvy, experienced, knowledgeable, etc.) but he has terrible judgment (by which I mean the ability to make a sound decision or even a reliable guesstimate based on the information he is given.) This is not my opinion, rather it is based on a review of the facts relating to his career. I assume that his biographer(s) one day will be struck with the same things I have noticed in looking at his record.
At 144: “Now that your latest book is finished do you have a Web site, or any plans on starting a blog and joining us in the blogoverse to continue the much needed thorough dialog on these important subjects as they continue to unfold?” Response: I do not have a website, because I have not had time. I have been writing online for FindLaw for almost six years (which is from the pre-blogosphere era), and plan to continue doing so. Those columns, which run 1500 to 2000 words, take varying degrees of time to prepare, and often relate to subjects incidentally related to a book I may be working on. My publisher (Viking, which is part of the Penguin Group) liked my proposal so well that they asked me to turn in the manuscript next spring. (I think it bad taste, if not unwise, to discuss a non-fiction political book that is still a work-in-progress, so I will say no more, other than it will be my 8th book, and they don’t get easier as you progress, but one does gain confidence in proceeding.)
At 145: “Kinda wild-hare idea, but how ’bout delivering a copy of CWC to every sitting and incoming Democrat after the November elections.” Response: I would be delighted to sign them and get a discount from my publisher (they do give authors a discount on their own books but I still have to purchase them) if someone wishes to organize such an undertaking. But the people who need to read this book as well are the GOP members – not that it will likely change the mind of any who survive the ’06 election.
At 151: “I don’t understand why they [the Democrats] don’t fight back harder?” Response: Many Democrats fought hard in 2004 to get voters to the polls, to become aware of the issues, etc. – and they are doing the same now. The problem relates back many years when Democrats became complacent and woke up one day to discover conservative Republicans had taken control of the GOP, that conservatives had left the ranks of the Democratic Party, and they no longer had political control or party dominance. It appears to this observer that Democrats are acutely aware of their problems, and we will all be better able to assess how they are dealing with them in a few months.
At 185: In Glenn’s initial review of your book he said: A healthy skepticism is warranted with regard to the ability of social science data to reveal truths about political movements. His sentiment seemed to echo the “hard science - soft science” debate. My impression from your book was that the synthesis of the scholarship, soft science though it be, coupled with your singular personal experience constituted a case where the whole far exceeded the sum of the parts. It seemed to me that the work of Altemeyer helped you see the extent and truth of your experiences. Was Glenn a little too quick to skepticism about the social science in his review? Response: Nice question. I worried about the very point that Glenn made, and spoke with several other social scientists about taking the work done by Bob Altemeyer and others and relating it to various political players. All assured me this could be done, and that I was in a somewhat unique position to do it. I discovered the eminent social scientist Alan Wolfe, writing in the Chronicle of Higher Education, doing exactly what I was doing as I worked on my book. He suggested using the Adorno et al work The Authoritarian Personality, apparently unaware that the science had moved well beyond that work. So Glenn is correct in calling for caution, and hopefully I employed it. (The book was published on July 11, 2006 and so far not one of the conservatives I have described as an authoritarian has objected to my analysis of them.)
At 201: “Do you feel she [Hillary Clinton] has any of those [Goldwater] principals breathing in her yet? Or have they been triangularized to death a la Clinton?” Response: When working on CWC I went over to Phoenix to visit the Goldwater papers (as I mention in the book), and discovered to my surprise that Senator Goldwater and the Clintons had become good friends. It appears the friendship started when Senator Goldwater blasted conservatives for taking cheap shots at President Clinton, and his early policies. Senator Goldwater publicly opposed these efforts to destroy the Clinton Presidency with endless and senseless investigations. Apparently, President Clinton called Senator Goldwater to thank him for his unsolicited defense (or support) and with that call their friendship began. Senator Goldwater took part in a surprise birthday party for Hillary – which Bill arranged because Hillary had been a “Goldwater Girl” in 1964, but had never met the man who had first attracted her into politics. President Clinton was one of the last people to visit with Senator Goldwater when he was in the hospital as his life drew to a close. (It is not easy for Presidents to just drop by like that but Clinton went out of his way to say goodbye to a man he clearly held in high esteem.) More recently, Hillary participated in a documentary on Senator Goldwater that will be shown on HBO in mid-September. (Yours truly took part as well.) Finally, let me tell you what the Senator told me about Hillary Clinton: “She’s a great lady, I truly admire her.” To which he added, never thinking she would become a U.S. Senator: “He’s lucky [referring to President Clinton] that she didn’t run for office before he did, because she could have made it to the White House on her own.” In short, there is no doubt in my mind that Senator Goldwater thought Hillary Clinton was presidential timber.
HAVING GONE THOUGH ANOTHER HUNDRED POSTINGS I AM GOING TO SIGN OFF AGAIN, AND WILL LOOK FOR ANOTHER HOLE IN MY SCHDULE WHEN I MIGHT ADDRESS A FEW MORE. DELIGHTED WITH THE PLAY ON MY TYPO FOR THE “SLIMMY/SLIMY” MR. RUMSELF.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR FINE QUESTIONS AND THOUGHTFUL COMMENTS. THEY ARE TRULY APPRECIATED.
JWD
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FAN TASTIC!
Amazing!
Holy Moses, Mr. Dean! Thank you, thank you, thank you. And go REST THOSE FINGERS!
Crikey! In memory of Steve Irwin, who may have been a nut, but brought smiles to millions of people through his love of animals.
John Dean, you are a true patriot!
way cool
An “Impeach Bush” banner attached to the top of a radio tower at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan, passed along from a friend of a friend in the USAF who is stationed in Qatar (see link). Truly amazing sight and no doubt placed there by a brave member of the armed forces.
Mr. Dean, thank you so much for your time and energy in this discussion. Your particular insight is a spectacular treat for us. Best wishes to you in all your future endeavors!
What a gentleman!
wow!
BBC
A judge in Argentina has paved the way for the trial of two of the most notorious figures of the military government in power from 1976 to 1983.
The judge ruled that pardons granted to them by a civilian government in the 1990s were unconstitutional.
Former Economy Minister Jose Alfredo Martinez de Hoz and former Interior Minister Albano Harguindeguy can now be tried for kidnapping two businessmen.
I WISH I was here when john was in discussion here at firedog…what a privilege it would have been
I would have LOVED to point out that no matter what campaign the democrats mount, it will mean NOTHING so long as there are electronic voting machines
absolutely nothing
the republicans have positioned election officials in as many precincts as they can, it does not bode well for this democracy
this administration has ALREADY turned the corner and we are now a fascist government, where the propaganda is leveled against the American public, where it becomes a crime to report government officials breaking the law, where every bit of public property is given to corporations, where the president claims the RIGHT to torture, he claims the RIGHT to ignore our law, he claims the RIGHT to right new law without the hand of congress, he claims the RIGHT to wage war regardless of congressional preference.
I don’t see any thing BUT calling this government right now fascist
I’ve been having such Watergate flashbacks after yesterday. I wish some of that was available on DVD. An absolutely spellbinding cast of characters.
me2me —- if this government were truly fascist, you would have been shot by now. FDL would not be permitted to exist.
I would never undertake an argument with Mr. Dean. He has shown an amazing level of grace in interacting with the FDL community. My thanks for his attention and patriotism are without reservation. re #129 above, I did, however just open the book again to find on p. 159 the following:
He then, as op99 so ably caught on the last thread, quotes Josh Marshall from the Washington Monthly.
This is undoubtedly a first for this community to have someone so attentive to our words– so respectful of them– so as to really spend quality time answering our queries.
Thank you again and yet again Mr. Dean for gracing us with your presence.
*ilson46201 @ 13
you’ve said that before *ilson and I disagree with your definition of the word and the history
getting shot for this didn’t come until well into fascism
and the president is as we speak trying to make it illegal to report crimes the government officials commit
I’m sorry, this administration IS fascist, the ugliest part of fascism hasn’t appeared YET, but that doesn’t change the FACT
corporatism is fascism, and list I psoted ahead, all earmarks of fascism
so, no, getting shot for criticism didn’t come till long after fascism
and do not forget, the administration has already begun calling THEIR critics fascists…this is a common tool of this group, find your own liability and call your critics that very thing
and I GUARANTEE, when net nuetrality is gone, so will firedoglake the way we know it be gone…this is true
these are fascists
me to me - Mr. Dean was asked about voting machines and mentioned that he was going to - or already is - researching the issue.
I just read through these answers and am struck again at the wonder of a sound political voice. Mr. Dean embodies the honor and intelligence we have lost in our political process and we are very lucky that he is helping to take it back.
as I recall Hitler came to power in 1933 and on May 1st 1934, labor and left leaders were all arrested and put in concentration camps. so how are you strolling around the Net agitating, unincarcerated ?
Siun @ 15
Would that there were dozens more like him. Even in congress!
maybe a future President can pardon John Dean … he certainly seems rehabilitated !
What a dry wit eminates from Mr. Dean, with whom I share the same unenviable middle initial.
And I had the privilege of being referred to as “friend” by Mr. Dean during his book salon, one of a now endless list of things that make being an FDLer more than worthwhile.
*ilson46201 @ 17
first, people like rhandi rhodes and ted keenedy are already on the no fly list
and second, fascism was on it’s way before hitler came to power, you are confusing fascism with hitler, just as republicans confuse their party with this administrration
*ilson46201 @ 16
SHHHH!!!!! The last thing we need is to give them ideas.
fascism always lurks under capitalism, the danger comes when it has state power. Bush may be fascist-minded but his Administration is not fascist…
*ilson46201 @ 23
I dissagree, when the administrations very purpose is privatising everything the public owns, that’s a fascist
ya, we are not entirely fascist yet, but don’t forgetm it was hitler who said something to the effect;
“I don’t care who votes, I care who counts the votes”
that’s a paraphrase, I don’t have the exact quote, but here we are today with electronic viting and mroe votes then voters
these are fascists, whether or not they are able to complete their mission remains to be seen, however they are CERTAINLY on their way
Perhaps the single most important series in the short history of the blogsphere. A remarkable interchange. Thank you John Dean. Thank you…
Mr. John Dean is a regular PRINCE in my book. What a kind and thorough guest to be sure that all the questions are addressed so thoughtfully. Thanks Mr Dean.
And with this, OS over and out until the dawn’s early light. night all……..
I feel a need to respond to the person who asked, “How can we trust
you, Mr. Dean?”
Ever since the Checkers speeck I’ve had a visceral hatred of Richard
Nixon. I still consider him one of the phoniest people ever to walk
the face of this planet. I still recall an interview with Dick Frost
years after Nixon left office. Frost asked Nixon about the “secret
plan” he announced during the 1968 campaign to get us out of Viet Nam.
Nixon replied, “Oh, that’s just one of those things you say during a
campaign.” All I can say is that my elderly father fell for it, voted
Republican for the first time in his life, and died believing that
he’d have to spend time in purgatory for his gulibility.
I was on who “wallowed in Watergate.” I listened to Bob Haldeman. I
listened to John Erlichman. And I listened to John Dean. With
Haldeman and Erlichman, I figured out their game relatively quickly.
I couldn’t do that with Dean, so initially I figured that he had to be
the slickest SOB I’d ever seen. There was no damn way that Tricky
Dick’s personal counsel could be an honest man. John Dean got no
benefit of the doubt where I was concerned. But after listening to
him long enough, I cam to realize that he was not only one of the
smartest people I’d ever seen — he seemed able to remember five or
six years of intense conversations as though each of them was
yesterday — but, he was looking after the welfare of our democracy
and wasn’t playing any games, a truth-speaker and a patriot.
Many thanks, Mr. Dean, from a fellow citizen.
Very thoughtful of Mr. Dean to address those additional questions.
I don’t know if anyone has addressed this or not, but the ABC Bush excusathon will be running uninterupted–i.e. no commercials. Did that cost the Republican party extra, buying 6 hours of prime-time network teevee after Labor Day?
Oilfieldguy @ 28
a PERFECT example, rewriting history, propaganda…more earmarks of a govenrment headed toward fascism
Siun @ 9
What Siun said. Thank you, Mr. Dean, for your time and your thought-provoking comments.
Oilfieldguy @ 27
I can’t imagine that no one would want to sponsor such a “feast.” Then again, perhaps . . . ?
Greenwald-Dean ‘08
Oilfieldguy @ 28
No wonder I couldn’t find any sponsors in plain view. But then, who underwrote this? If anybody watches, please take note of sponsorship for us so we can write to them. I’m outraged that they are airing this political nonsense on this day of national mourning.
You know, just a thought here. Mr. Dean also benefits from us as a sounding board. He will obviously use some of the stuff brought out here on future speaking engagements. Much like politicians used to do on whistle-stop campaigns, gauging audience reaction to certain parts of the speech, until it becomes a thing of perfection.
Glad you stopped by Mr. Dean. Hope we could help in some small way.
Spokane Moderate @ 31
I’d work hard for that one.
that’s what ya call old school gracious
Thanks Mr. Dean
I was speaking to a friend today about how amazing the John Dean Book Salon was. He asked- well what’s he doing now? I said he is writing books, and he publishes a regular column on FindLaw. But, I admit to ignorance as to his other activities. Not that those foregoing aren’t enough, but if anyone can tell me more, much appreciated. Sorry, this sounds totally clueless on my part.
John Dean was totally amazing in working his way through questions on the Book Salon thread, and so frank and engaging in the answers he gave, and has given here in the email that Jane posted. As I said before, I was glued to the tube during the Watergate hearings, and it was just *awesome* to “meet” him in person via the Book Salon thread.
meta,
that is the point. Everybody knows this will be radioactive, so no advertiser, except maybe yacht salesmen, will put a big old fat target on their ass. We cannot boycott advertisers that do not exist.
Thank you Mr. Dean. Once again you’ve proved your diligence and consistent application to the task is worthy of the highest respect. You were and remain a true American patriot and a personal hero of mine.
Thank you again for sharing your insights
meta @ 33
Commercial time is split (normally) between national ads and local affiliate ads. How are they doing this???
Cozumel @ 40
Uninterupted means no commercials. No sponsors, just 100 percent excusathon from the party of personal responsibility.
Oilfieldguy @ 38
OFG, we need to find out who bankrolled this. Even when networks air shows without commercial interruption, they always say, “brought to you by” or “made possible by.” But if there are truly no advertisers, then it’s even more strange. How can we find out?
Cozumel
Perhaps it is being underwritten by the RNC.
meta @
33
FWIW, The ‘Student Resource Sheets’ that ABC is supplying for schools (or Scholastic Press is — not clear to me) say “Generously sponsored by ABC”
*Some*body’s got to be paying for this thing, but they are sure keeping it quiet.
BTW, if Irishamerican is here, I’m transcribing them into .html for research purposes.
Also, Christy, hope you and Fiona are on the mend. And Norske, didja get your young lady settled at her university? I’m asking now coz I gotta go get ready for tomorrow in abt 5 min.
ot
but SWEET…from raw story
I would like to support the idea of sending CwoC out to members of congress. Will suggest this to the Roots Project. Hey, we can get a deal on the purchase too!
John Dean definately desrves a pardon! I hope a Democrat will do it.
RevDeb @ 43
I can see ABC doing this but no ad revenue for SIX HOURS for the local ads??? Does not compute!?
I expect a little more respect from your god damn military, stop killing our soldiers, fricking US, we’re trying to finish what your inept leadership started, and for that your bennied up air force kills us….to hell with the current US admin….murderers
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/.....afghan.ap/
Eureka Springs, AR @ 45
I somehow don’t think the current administration is planning on taking that up. Yet another reason to elect dems and throw the repug. bums out.
So it’s Disney?
meta and OFG,
ABC’s site describes it as “with limited commercial interruption” don’t know whether that means on the hour or not, but am betting some blue chipper (GM ?, IBM ?) will offer up something ‘tasteful’ or something along the lines of SUXCORP is pleased to bring you ‘. . .
(think network presentation of Schindler’s List)
not a cheap date, so they can’t not reveal who it is - the runup hype is part of the pkg they’ve been sold
Cozumel @ 47
I’m not real sure how the TV affiliate relationship works, but I would guess that they can “opt out” of airing the program. Sort of a take it or leave it thing. Just don’t know if the local boys can scramble enough footage to fill a 6 hour prime-time slot.
Cozumel @ 46
Cheney and his friends could probably dip into their piggybank and pick up the tab without anyone being the wiser. He likes to do things in secret after all.
A.Political @ 48
NOT AGAIN???!!!
Another clueless post from Valley Girl. John Dean pardoned? Help. I wasn’t aware that he needed to be pardoned.
cbl,
Thanks for that. I have not been to the ABC website, but I was watching the Tiger Woods show today on ABC and the word they used was uninterupted. Hit me like a lightning bolt. I agree with you that some corp. names will be attached to this.
Are you’ll talking about the 9-11 so-called documentary scheduled to be on ABC soon? It has been pulled — http://thinkprogress.org/2006/.....og-yanked/
Oilfieldguy @ 55
Halliburton perhaps?
Curious in Central Texas @ 57
The blog for the show has been pulled, not the show itself.
VG,
John Dean
Rev Deb, Funny you mentioned that. I edited my comment with that point in mind.
What do you think about the roots project and sending CwoC out to congress?
curious in Central TX,
the blog for the special was yanked, not the special itself
seems some of those mean nasty blog urchins showed up with something called “facts” the noive!
*atou @
7
What link?
Valley Girl @
55
Please look at Wilson’s 9:45 pm comment.
cbl and OFG,
Ah ha. “Limited commercial interuption”, that would be the local stuff I’m guessing. And yes OFG, a local affiliate can “opt out”, happens all the time ; )
Curious in Central Texas @ 57
No, it’s the *bloggy* thing that’s been yanked, not the show.
John Dean, at his own peril, spoke the truth to power. He paid a heavy price and I am a great admirer of his.
Eureka Springs, AR @ 60
You would probably have to talk with the NY and DC area folks to appreciate the work that was involved in doing CTG. Frankly I think all of our dems need to have a keen appreciation of what Dean says so they can better understand what they are up against. It would probably resonate with their own personal experiences but they may not know the social science behind those perceptions.
quickie bio of John Dean at Wikipedia . I didnt know he was an investment banker in Beverly Hills ! He aint starving …
I recall watching Mr Dean during Watergate as a young law graduate, and thought at first this guy is dull and boring and then realizing oh my God he’s really nailing Trickie to the wall and my respect went up by huge measure. After yesterday and today my respect is off scale both to Mr Dean and FDL for being a place where this could happen (and Amb. Wilson too!). Amazing.
LindyH @ 62
Sorry, my name at 6 is the link itself. I was trying too hard to be brief. Here is the link again.
Been a very long day in CT and have to go back to work tomorrow. Time to earn a living.
g’night all.
What a class act. That’s a great thing he did.
Thanks all re: John Dean pardon. Sometimes I am on top it, and sometimes I am not!!!
*ilson,
believe he also had a visiting professor gig at USC - guess I’ll check your link
and omg, it’s the seventh sign. *ilson made a spelling error !: Beverly Hills *g*
it’s Beverly Hills now …
*ilson46201 @ 76
Not until I refresh my page it aint!
Oilfieldguy @ 77
707!
In grade school I always won spelling bees in my class — that ruined pedagogical progress until a smart teacher took me out of competition by appointing me as ‘judge’ — nobody complained !
So, *ilson, how do you feel now about having been a spelling Nazi at FDL? ;) ;)
Being at 95 I made the cut the first day for him to answer my question.
THRILL CITY!!!
It made me happy as a city prosecutor’s daughter to see him methodically working his way through every single question, and totally nailing the answers. I knew that sooner or later, and sooner in my lucky case, he would give a fabulous answer to my question.
And included in his response: CONGRESS HAS LOST ITS INSTITUTIONAL PRIDE.
*ilson46201 @ 79
I almost won my 6th grade spelling bee, if I hadn’t spelled torture “torcher.” I kind of prefer my spelling.
Wigwam @ 27
Good comment. BTW, it’s David Frost, not Dick Frost.
My father had a classmate at HLS who was involved in Watergate, Richard Kleindienst. Turns out he was in Dad’s study group. The guy showed up the last day and signed his name on their group project, for which he had contributed nothing. Dad felt rather satisfied to see this fellow be convicted…at last.
Mr. Dean, I really appreciate what you’ve done here.
My dad worked for a GOP senator back in the early 60s who didn’t stay in office. When Watergate played out on TV and in the newspapers, my father said he was very relieved he hadn’t stayed on in DC. He said, “That could have been me up there in that hearing.”
I never really knew if he actually meant that, or if it was “There but for the grace of God go I” sort of comment.
Seven more American soldiers lives extinguished in Vietnam today. Oops. I mean Iraq. Where lies the outrage?
One of my peculiar pleasures at FDL is quickly scanning the main posts and trying to catch and correct typos and spelling errors before some wise-ass commenter remarks on them.
I gotta go get ready for tomorrow.
If Norske shows up, ask him if he got young Ms Norske settled in at college OK. Christy’s prolly not here, but hope she and Fi are beating back those bacteria. Also, if Irishamerican checks in, I am transcribing ABC’s “Student Resource Sheets” into .html for research purposes.
And here’s a big hug for TRex, can someone pass it on to him please?
Just thinking, this may be the last quiet bit before the Noise Machine gets going. I believe we can win in November by *not* playing the negative game, just as I believe we can fight terrorism without wiretapping and torture. And if we can’t, victory is ashes in our mouths. I close with Mr. Dean’s words:
At 123: “Mr. Dean - do you believe there are enough new media outlets to counter the mind numbing propaganda they are spewing and will flood our airwaves with in the next 2 months?” Response: It is going to get very negative, for this (along with their carefully redrawn district lines for House seats, the get-out-the-vote army being mobilized by the RNC and the religious right organizations, and their money) is their only hope. Most House of the contested races it appears that the GOP candidate has substantially more money than his/her opponent, and they will spend it on negative ads. The growing equalizer – which we must all watch to see what works – is the Internet.
Go Blue!
*ilson46201 @ 87
Spoil Sport.
Lindy(wise-ass)H
Mr. Dean, thank you again for working through the questions so methodically. I am still reading through your latest comments, and I hope others are as well. Apologies if you are not getting much feedback on your recent batch of comments, but it seems that the regulars here are still on an “FDL high” as a result of your participation in the Book Salon yesterday.
At 108: “Given Dick Cheney’s penchant for expanded presidential power, why, in your opinion, has he never run for president?” Response: He has and could not get his campaign off the ground.
Well, that’s a “keeper”, as they say.
I think being brilliant includes making errors as long as one is willing to take responsibility for them. I guess *snark bites* included. Yeah FDL
I was in college English class with Thomas Charles Huston, a noted campus reactionary, who was a counsel to Nixon. His recommendations to suppress dissent were so draconian that even J. Edgar Hoover balked. Huston became a prosperous GOP attorney in Indianapolis afterwards…
I am hopeful that the utter implosion of the current Republican party will be seen as a selfless opportunity by some political leader to tear down the historical liberal/conservative feud, dispelling the faulty doctrine that fuels it, and reunites Americans so we can finally start to rebuild.
I can be optimistic that way…
HotFlash @ 88
Good night, HotFlash.
This has been an utterly amazing exchange. Many thanks to Jane, Glenn, and Mr. Dean.
re At 145: Mr. Dean, I think it would be a great idea to give copies of CWC to at least those Republicans for whom there is a glimmer of hope that they might be swayed. A place to start would be the members of the Republican Main Street Partnership. From what I can tell the handful of classic Republicans left in Congress are members of this, although many of the members are there for cosmetic reasons only. Any Gooper Congress Critter who is not a member is likely beyond hope.
Mr. Dean, thank you for your service to the country.
I just want to chip in with thanks to John Dean for going above and beyond the expectations of the FDL salon. Like I said last night, I dropped out of following the responses after a while, just because I didn’t want Mr Dean up till 7am trying to catch up with replies.
Let’s just say that the book is on order.
meta made a point upthread that made me wonder too, why haven’t the Watergate hearings been re-broadcast? They must be archived somewhere and what an incredible civics lesson for people who never had the chance to see them.
I think a replay of those hearings would remind everyone who we are and what is possible… and maybe give our DEM *leaders* a boost in the backbone area.
Now that’s worth a primetime, non-commercial slot. ABC are you listening?
*crickets*
pseudonymous in nc @ 97
Yes, he didn’t have to go the distance like he has. He could’ve just scooped up all the info from the comments and gone on his way. Just shows you what integrity looks like. Man oh man, he’s an incredible person.
FWIW, I remembered having read that “perfection is the enemy of the good”. I was thinking this re: spelling etc., and googled it to find a source.
http://www.spacetropic.com/200.....emy_11.htm
~~The larger idea at play is simply that an fixation with purity will lead to an inability to accept practical compromise. Radical ideologues transform this principle to an advantage: By flinging the merde of hypocrisy at every imperfection, they can achieve an advanced state of radicalism.~~
Offered FWIW, but it does resonate with me following the Book Salon discussion.
Not a shot across the bow at *ilson, by any means.
Valley Girl -
There’s a psychological theory that “perfectionism” is linked to neurosis. I used to know more about it but since I’m not a perfectionist (well, only about some things) I’ve forgotten. *g*.
Jenny from the Blog @ 98
If I were in charge of programming for C-SPAN, I would re-run these hearings merely as a civics lesson, without any implication whatsoever. This was a tremendous milestone in the history of our country, and this needs to be shared with younger generations. (I was a wee one at the time, so I could use a refresher.)
pseudonymous in nc @ 97
After I hit “submit comment” with this, I’m off to Amazon to order it. Yesterady was a real eye opener.
Thanks be to FDL, John Dean, Glenn and the rest for the great questions and the detailed answers.
Huzzah.
-GSD
Jenny, your comment prompted me to do a little search, and I found this:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/news.....s-specials
Not sure if it includes DVDs, but there is a goldmine there if a distributor would pick it up. But there are hundreds and hundreds of hours of this stuff!
Typos and spelling errors are essentially meaningless as long as they do not distort understanding. Errors do bother some folk however so it’s important to iron them out of published material so as not to detract from the content. Errors look unprofessional and thus weaken the ’seriousness’ of a text.
Jenny from the Blog @
98
Here (Vanderbilt University):
http://staffweb.library.vander.....eport.html
Oklahoma kiddo @
86
OK,
I don’t think we’ll be seeing any Steve Irwin style retropsectives on the lives of American, British, Canadian or Dutch troops dead in Botches’ Wars. Certainly nothing on the multitudes of dead Iraqis or Afghanis either.
*atou -
There would be a huge amount of interest! I remember becoming aware of the McCarthy hearings when I was a teen (after reading Lillian Hellman’s Scoundrel Time) and asked my parents how it felt to be living in those times and what impact the hearings had on them. Especially since I think those hearings were the very first *live* broadcast of their kind.
To my extreme disappointment my folks had no comment, just looked at me in a puzzled way… (why is our daughter interested in this?). Kind of like that Woody Allen movie when the kid is all worried about the planet expanding (or shrinking, I can’t remember which) and his mother says “What is that your business?”
sigh.
Thank you Jane and FDL for putting this forum together. Thank you John Dean, Dr. Bob & Glenn for the work you did here and for every day that you inspire, query and uplift. And thank you Joe & Valerie Wilson for your courage.
egregious, if you’re still here - I left a question for you at the bottom of I Love a Parade concerning possible lurkers. If you get a chance to check it out I’d greatly appreciate it.
*ilson46201 @ 87
I challenge you to a spelling deul. :)
*ilson46201 @ 17
Technically correct, but I beg to disagree.
Commenter is accurate about our being on a path to fascism, John Dean agrees.
We can argue how many angels dance at the end of the sword point, but is that a good use of our time and energy?
We enjoy the fine points of arguing amongst ourselves. But at some point it’s not enough. I work in Russia, believe me this is the day before yesterday for them. It can happen here. Germany was very civilized before their collapse too.
The boat has capsized. Start swimming. Stop arguing about whether the boat should or should not have capsized and how far it is to shore. SWIM, DAMN IT.
/rant. for now.
meta, thanks for that info!
OJS - Wow. Now that I think of it I guess the hearings went on for a long time. Seems like my roomates and I spent the whole summer glued to the set.
And it’s being digitized by Steve Davis at Vanderbilt. We’re going to be hearing more about this.
meta, I’m so glad you brought this up!
I made a post quite a while ago with a couple of links and ask Christy to let us know what she thought about them. I then also sent her an email with the title and number of my comment.
At that time her peanut was sick and she ask me to wait on her responce. As I was about too re-comment on one of her current threads I saw once again her peanut had an ear infection. I hope he gets better and am thankful that I don’t have to deal with those anymore as mine are all grown up now.
I would really like too know what she thought about my comment and links as I don’t really see Bush giving up power. Dictators don’t go quietly and my links and comments had to do with him declaring Martial Law and suspending the Constitution if the republicans lose the house and senate.
I hope in the near future she would do a thread on the comment and links I posted and emailed to her as I think it is a very important question for all of us to know the answer too.
Sorry if this is off topic, but I do feel that it is a legitamite concern for all of us.
Thanks for your time.
Well George, Do you have a blog? I remember your mentioning this earlier.
meta & others
here are some watergate hearings clips
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS.....rings.html
and a quick highlight:
http://www.utexas.edu/lbj/barb.....tution.avi
‘night all…
Valley Girl @
74
Hey, V.G., you’re always tops!
Jenny, thanks for sharing the memories. I would love nothing better than to replay some of those moments.
cbl, thanks for the links!
I was wondering what John Dean thought about Mark Felt outing himself.
carolyn urban @ 111
Your question, what does eeek mean. It’s kind of a teenage girl response to celebrity. Leahy’s son, Ambassador Wilson, John Dean, all here reading and commenting on fdl…just envision the audience for early Beatles concerts.
I would like also to thank Bob Altemeyer for his contributions to the discussion. And, he gave FLDers a huge compliment in this comment.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200.....ent-277721
I have highlighted that part below, but it is truly worth reading the entire comment.
Bob Altemeyer @
376
everyone has to see this link that cbl posted:
http://www.utexas.edu/lbj/barb.....constituti on.avi
One of my close friends got to study with Jordan at UT for her masters program in pubic policy. She was extremely kind to her students, even hosting dinners. My friend adored her.
a little late to the party, but…wow. Thanks, Mr. Dean. Wow.
Jenny from the Blog @ 109
The previous generation may not understand the import of some subject, but that should have no weight in what the current generation feels passion about. My 68-year-old mother listens to Air America every day due to my influence, and I am very proud of that. But if she didn’t, I would carry on in any case. G’night, Jenny!
John Dean - it’s very impressive that you answered so many of these questions so thoughtfully and carefully and that you went out of your way to reach so many of the questioners.
I now have no choice. I must purchase your book at once!
This (currently) last comment on John Deans thread hit a point I thought about this morning regarding authoritarians.
They have to select new leaders eventually. Is a party enough? I would think this is a potential tipping point even for authoritarians.
thanks egregious. Just wondering as I’m a big Leahy fan and the eeek sort of made me think of someone jumping on a chair when a mouse runs into the room. I wondered if you knew something I didn’t.
Oh yeah, I’m rereading your comment above again, re: Beatles. Okay, I’m with you there. Yes, thrilling to be in such keen company.
tpres2000- thanks what a sweet thing to say. But, thanks to FDL, I do discover that I have gaps in knowledge. And, FDLers are always helpful in filling in the gaps. So, let me ask you, who is this George Bush guy?
I had to leave the Book Salon thread yesterday before it was done, but I went back this morning to see what had happened after I left. It made this preacher’s day when I saw that one of my observations about the judiciary got an “Amen” from John Dean.
And then he comes back for more.
That’s class.
It’s one thing to say “I answered everything I had time for,” and quite another to make the time to answer everything else you didn’t get to earlier. Thanks, Mr. Dean! It also says a lot about FDL, in that he thinks enough of us to want to keep responding to our questions and comments.
Think about that for a minute, firepups.
It’s quite a place we’ve got here. Jane and Christy have collected quite the assortment of interesting, thoughtful, and thought-filled people here . . . and we keep coming back for more, too.
Pretty classy, if I do say so myself.
vg 122 — thanks for that. We do have the smartest, wittiest, most thoughtful commenters around.
Peterr- You and Dr. Bob agree. See my #122 above.
Thanks Jane. I had an incredibly hard time putting that comment together, for some reason. A labor of love. xxoo
Jane Hamsher @ 132
Indeed Peter, indeed and you are a fine addition thank you.
Egregious - Thanks for stepping in the middle of me2me and *ilson discussion with your Scottish armour and excellent point. Good stuff by all three of you. *g*
Okay, no more bitchin’ on my end. Real communication is taking place here. Thanks.
VG -
Trying to catch up, and I missed that! Thanks.
And the snark on that John Dean!
“DELIGHTED WITH THE PLAY ON MY TYPO FOR THE “SLIMMY/SLIMY” MR. RUMSELF.”
Rumself?
LOL, 707, and more besides!
Hey Jane: What would it take to get John Dean and TRex to team up on a Rumself takedown?
Tipping my hat and bowing in respect for John Dean.
Stop and think for a moment that the man who has brought this superb exchange to a liberal blog is a conservative! Well, he colors himself independent now, but he does after all hearken back to a kind of conservatism that is almost completely forgotten nowadays, Goldwater conservatism, with a conscience.
I vaguely remember a time, maybe back when I was a kid, when the left and right could carry on an intelligent and very fruitful conversation, with the sincere goal of understanding the other sides’ motivations and finding useful common ground. Time was that intellectually gifted and forthright conservatives like John Dean, who by nature respected the other side, were not all that uncommon. It hardly seems possible any more, in this era of screeching, enraged, nihilistic wingnuts; the very authoritarians that Mr. Dean deplores.
Peterr- oh thank you for highlighting the Dean comment about MR. RUMSELF. I had a good laugh about that myself, but forgot to mention it. From this, I learned that John Dean has a sense of humor and snark that fits in well here at FDL, not to say one that is much appreciated.
Buckeye Hamburger @ 138
Reminds me of some of Larry Johnson’s comments on the Plame panel at YKos. He, too, never imagined he’d be enjoying the company of liberals in standing up against authoritarianism.
Now that’s bipartisanship!
Doggoneitall, of all weekends for me not to be able to spend time online reading and commenting at FDL!! I am absolutely tickled to see Mr. Dean made it back to comment further.
I think of all the books so far here in the FDL Book Salon, this one received the most intense scrutiny, just my perception from arm’s length. It showed in the caliber and intensity of questions. We’re very much trying to come to grips with the whys of getting here, but we’ve arrived at a point where understanding the psychopathy is essential to getting to the next step; it is because it is a psychopathy that we outside of the psychopathy cannot understand it. We cannot get inside that state of consciousness. But with Dean’s work we are at least able to get a bead on it and begin to frame our positions to it while furthering the same. I’m certain that many of my progressive friends will be intrigued and enlightened with CWC now that I’ve finished it and can pass it around our circle on loan.
Thanks very much, Mr. Dean, for your efforts here (and to you, Jane, once again, for making this phenomenal opportunity available).
As a long-time lurker I’d like to give thanks and appreciation to Jane and the brilliant FDL’ers, Glenn Greenwald, who is a regular read for me, John Dean, who is the true definition of a patriot, Bob Altemeyer, who has gone unknown for WAY too long by many, Joe Wilson and his wife for standing up and speaking truth to power. What an amazing event this was. Thank you all!
All the talk in this thread re: spelling reminded me of this:
Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, olny taht the frist and lsat ltteres are at the rghit pcleas. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by ilstef, but the wrod as a wlohe. ;)
*ilson46201 @ 69
Which just shows Dean doesn’t have to be doing civic work. He’s in this for love of country.
A true patriot.
I’ve watched Keith Olbermann for a long time, his cable news stuff anyway. Going back to when he was on CNBC covering Monica Gate, got sick of it, and walked away. I doubt he’s going to let go of Rumsfeld from what I’ve seen in the past. That said, John Dean dropped an attributable bomb here about Rumsfeld (I think) and the Nixon White House. Should be interesting going forward ; )
I’m wondering if we could sweet talk Dr. Bob into some semi-regular commenting. Maybe if we all asked nicely… Now that he knows we are here, maybe he will show up sometimes. I would love to see that happen.
Again, good stuff from FDL Book Salon. I’m impressed by Dean’s ongoing effort to address questions posed by FDL commenters. I guess you guys rock!
Anyway: I’m curious if anyone has either written or read any recent essays that draw parallels between John Dean’s examination of authoritarian personalities in the current neo-con movement, and the work of German post-Jungian psychologist and philosopher Erich Fromm, who detailed differences between “authoritarian” and “humanistic” ethical systems in the wake of WWII. Fromm’s “Escape From Freedom” and “Anatomy of Human Destructiveness” (among others) examined the rise of Fascism and Naziism in Europe, attempting to understand the psychological underpinnings of those movements.
(Incidentally, Fromm’s later works “The Art of Loving” and “To Have Or To Be?” described theoretical and practical antidotes to authoritarianism, which involved augmenting the “maturity” of one’s “orientation” by consciously “practicing loving” rather than trying to “be loved”.)
Just wondering…?
Peace.
Rayne- for some reason your comments end up in mod. If you are there, would you please repost above comment?? Copy text from above and repost? I made a change, and I am wondering if this has made a difference.
Noticed this today on amazon. he he
Bob Altemeyer has a fairly expensive book listed.
Enemies of Freedom: Understanding Right-Wing Authoritarianism (Jossey Bass Social and Behavioral Science Series)
Enemies of Freedom: Understanding Right-Wing Authoritarianism (Jossey Bass Social and Behavioral Science Series) by Bob Altemeyer (Hardcover - Oct 1988)
Used & new from $2,210.26
jen @ 141
Reminds me of a great song by the late folksinger Steve Goodman called “Talk Backwards” . . .
Eureka Springs, AR @ 135
Scottish armor: a plaid clan blanket between meself and the cold cold world.
It is enough.
Eureka- is that the price for the entire series? If he is an editor, that might be the case.
Juan del Llano — thank you.
We are not “old school” Dems here in this blog, nor across the country where we do the same work in dialogue at the local level. We are the “fresh horses“, working diligently to regenerate the Democratic Party from the roots, reengaging in real liberalism and progressivism. Many of us are very much conservatives, but in the oldest sense, that which was republican (EMPHASIS on the little “r”) when this country was founded, not conservatives in ideology, which is counter to a republic.
What John Dean has done in CWC is spelled out how RADICAL the right-wing is, driven by a minority that at its core is sociopathic. This real dialogue is in part a realization, an emvergence from a state of cognitive dissonance for us on the left, and growingly, the rest of the nation. We need help with this process of cultural awakening — not discouragement and naysaying.
Rayne, see my #147 (plus or minus if numbering has changed).
A few threads back
Mickey says:
September 4th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
wanted to know about putting the Dean Book Saloons out as a [downloadable?] file.
Jane, Christy, if it’s okay with you … I’ve been editing them for form (easier to read), and can save them as a PDF file (will be large!) if someone wants to provide house room for it. [I have StarOffice 8, it can create PDFs, among other things.] Let me know about it, yes?
Egregious, my mother said (in regards to my father) that if you think the Scots-Irish are stubborn, you should meet the Scots-Welsh.
VG — oh nuts, I didn’t see your comment, think my first comment is now virtual toast.
Suspect it has something to do with IP addresses, but not sure. There shouldn’t have been anything in the first post that went to mod, that I’m aware of, none of my frequent saltiness.
Bottom line was a thank-you to both John Dean for his efforts here and to Jane, for the remarkable forum.
Thanks for trying, VG!
Rayne, I released your original comment from mod, so reload using F5. I changed something in the filter, exactly along the lines of the IP thing. And, your comment 154 did not turn up in automod. If you can still find the text, please try again.
I am copying it here, though if it has HTML, this will not be exactly correct:
Doggoneitall, of all weekends for me not to be able to spend time online reading and commenting at FDL!! I am absolutely tickled to see Mr. Dean made it back to comment further.
I think of all the books so far here in the FDL Book Salon, this one received the most intense scrutiny, just my perception from arm’s length. It showed in the caliber and intensity of questions. We’re very much trying to come to grips with the whys of getting here, but we’ve arrived at a point where understanding the psychopathy is essential to getting to the next step; it is because it is a psychopathy that we outside of the psychopathy cannot understand it. We cannot get inside that state of consciousness. But with Dean’s work we are at least able to get a bead on it and begin to frame our positions to it while furthering the same. I’m certain that many of my progressive friends will be intrigued and enlightened with CWC now that I’ve finished it and can pass it around our circle on loan.
Thanks very much, Mr. Dean, for your efforts here (and to you, Jane, once again, for making this phenomenal opportunity available).
George A. @ 115
You are very kind to be gentle with our host with the sick child.
Many people here share your concern about the seizure of power by this administration. We absolutely do worry about such things as martial law and suspension of the Constitution. Please do continue to share your views.
Jane and Christy probably get thousands of emails and cannot respond individually to each one. I recommend you make a new comment, including your links, so that all of us can share your ideas. The best opportunity is early in the response to a relevant post.
Hope to hear from you again.
VG - It’s one book. Some interesting reviews as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Enemies-.....mp;s=books
Must learn tinyurl trick.
I, too remember John Dean’s testamony during the Watergate Hearings. I also remember my Mom absolutely glued to the television, something very unusual in our house. I was an exchange student in Mexico during part of this time and felt an obligation to learn as much about the situation as possible. Watergate was without a doubt the start of my interest in politics.
The reason for my post is to encourage people to read a book John Dean wrote in the early 1980’s called “Lost Honor.” I just read it this summer and was amazed. The book is full of analysis and historical information that very much applies today. Of particular interest is John Dean’s analysis of the lessons of Watergate. His discussion of the actions of Special Prosecutor Leon Jaworski are particularly relevant.
P J Evans @ 154
I’m more Welsh than Irish. Am all over the stubborn thingie.
new thread . . . TRex is in the house!
*ilson46201 @ 106
Yeah, they drive me absolutely bonkers. If I read a post and it’s filled with egregious errors in spelling and punctuation, I admit I immediately discount content. I’m not complaining about typos. But the common confusion of your/you’re, their/there, its/it’s, type/kind, effect/affect, though/although simply blows my mind. What in God’s name has become of our educational system? And in particular, how did any college grad graduate with such a poor command of the English language? Their profs should be shot for not penalizing them big time on their papers.
Folks, there are plenty of decent (and free) spell and grammar checkers online to catch most of the common mistakes, so there really is no excuse.
But as an aside, of those jerks who are demanding that immigrants must learn “English” before they can become U.S. citizens, how many do you suppose can string a reasonable sentence together? If the posts on Free Republic or Red State are a predictor, I’d have to conjecture very few, indeed.
VG — thanks, that looked fine! Forgot about F5, usually have no problems with hitting Refresh alone, but that didn’t work.
orangejumpsuit #107
The link you gave to the Vanderbilt Library has the web page dated
“April 2003″ and I am wondering whether the digitalisation of the
Watergate recordings has been completed by now, but don’t know
how to find out!
SherAn - Golly gee, with all the spell checkers I am really going to be booted out of here. I know the difference between affect and effect, and its and it’s, but sometimes by fingers don’t. My fingers type thoughts directly from my mind to the page. And to be honest I do not know how to use the spellchecker. So consider me among the uneduated.
with respect…
wow! elucidation!
mahalo!
to john dean and fdl and commenters.
and steve irwin, too.
707@77
peterr ~ I remember Steve Goodman’s Talk Backward! What a shame to have lost such a talent so young. That was a looonng time ago. Do you know of any CD availablity? Everything he did was just as interesting. (My old acoustical guitar/folk days….)
I’ve been lurking and reading all weekend. So in awe that John Dean, Joe Wilson, Glenn Greenwald and (Dr. Bob) Altmeyer would all offer themselves on the same thread. Dear God in Heaven, this was an historical blog landmark. I am still dumbstuck just reading — I didn’t even particapate. Just to be there reading in real time was special. I am blessed even in only reading.
Please forgive the spelling errors above. I am still affected by the significance of this weekend’s blogging.
John Dean, you are a true American Patriot.
Thank you!
Cozumel @
47
If it isn’t being paid for by the RNC, then the FEC should get a complaint because it is a campaign contribution to the RNC just before an election.
A wonderful interview with lots of meat to digest. Thank you John Dean. Your contributions to the health of the Republic are deeply appreciated. And thank you, Jane Hamsher.
I have a question: At 185-
“So Glenn is correct in calling for caution, and hopefully I employed it. (The book was published on July 11, 2006 and so far not one of the conservatives I have described as an authoritarian has objected to my analysis of them.)”
Is it possible that any response on their part is being avoided due to ongoing investigations?
All the best-
meta >”…One of my close friends got to study with Jordan at UT for her masters program in pubic policy. She was extremely kind to her students, even hosting dinners. My friend adored her.”
I so wanted her to be President but, alas, twas not to be
“Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime.” - Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.
Jenny from the Blog >”…why haven’t the Watergate hearings been re-broadcast? They must be archived somewhere and what an incredible civics lesson for people who never had the chance to see them.
I think a replay of those hearings would remind everyone who we are and what is possible…”
When I read this I immediately thought of “Good Night, and Good Luck” & how someone should make a equally powerful movie about Watergate
I can hope…
“A government operating in the shadow of secrecy stands in complete opposition to the society envisioned by the framers of our Constitution.” - Judge Damon J. Keith U. S. Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals
interesting… thanks Mr Dean
CX Coach @
159
I agree CX, a great way to demonstrate our gratitude to Mr. Dean is to buy more of his books.
Mr. Dean, as cbl commented above wrt you, “that’s what ya call old school gracious.”
Wow. Amazing post and amazing thread.
So much to be grateful for. Mr Dean’s gracious patience. And his courage, along with the Wilsons. Robert Altemeyer’s important research. Glenn Greenwald’s legal analysis. And Jane and Christy for opening up a spot in the pubic discourse where their voices and ours can be heard.
What I find amazing and refreshing is that not a single one of Jane’s blue state or book salon guests have patronized or pandered or responded dismissively to comments or questions. I think that is the main reason the quality of the discourse has been so remarkably good.
And once again, a gigantic thank you to John Dean! I have already purchased 3 of your books and I will be buying more!
(And for those who have not yet read it, it is a great read, because John Dean has managed to convert Altermeyer’s stats and his own personal observations into a compelling narrative. I can guarantee you, you will not be able to put it down.)
If Mr. Dean and/or Dr. Bob are still monitoring this thread I’d like to read their inputs on the differences between the Bush-Cheney et al of today and a couple of mid-20th century pols on the other side of the spectrum, namely Richard J. Daley and Lyndon Johnson, who were also very socially dominant. There was, of course, a substantial difference in the content of their policies. Also, Johnson had the qualities of character to withdraw from the field because he realized that his person and his Vietnam policies had become divisive to the detriment of the country. Such an action on the part of Bush or Cheney is unimaginable. I suspect you both would have some very worthwhile comments here.
I give Keith Olbermann much credit for having Mr. Dean on Countdown but would like him to forego introducing Dean as “former White House Counsel” to Nixon. Although it’s perfectly true, it might hit a nerve with John Dean who has more than paid the price for that period of his life.
I have avidly read your writings, Mr. Dean, and greatly appreciate the time you’re taking with your fellow citizens here. I’d like to point something out in regards to our founding fathers being “terrorized” by Native Americans. [The reader’s point that we don’t live in a time that’s any more scary is taken, though.]
I’d like to see greater awareness among this community (and farther) of the outstanding democracy practiced by the Iroquois, documented in The Great Law of Peace, which was a model for our constitution. Many of our Founding Fathers were intimately familiar with this democracy, and we could learn something today about peaceful mediation among disputing parties and international relations from the practices of the Iroquois. Heck, suffragettes studied Iroqois political organization! By the way, these are still practicing democracies.
Perhaps you’re interested in reading “Forgotton Founders: How the American Indian Helped Shape Democracy,” by Bruce Johansen, “The Iroquois and the Founding of the American Nation,” by Prof. Donald Grinde, or “Franklin Listens When I Speak,” by Paula Underwood. Full disclosure: I have gained my understanding of these issues at home; I am Paula Underwood’s daughter and we trace our ancestry to both Benjamin Franklin and Oneida Chief John Shenandoah.
I hope the comments about the European colonists having to live with Native American “terrorism” were meant as snark. I am sure the original inhabitants perceived their own conduct as legitimate warfare. If we are talking about the perceptions on the receiving end, then how should Native Americans view the conduct of the European colonists?
If we would like to differentiate “terrorism” from traditional warfare against military targets, it doesn’t help to take these terms so far out of context that they lose their meaning.
If the point is that we don’t need a police state to deal with challenging circumstances, then of course I agree. Just without the Native American angle, please.
It looks like I was unclear, I apologize. I was referring to this comment, I think #115, from the book salon this Sunday:
“But, something I’ve been thinking about for a few days is that the Framers themselves, at the time both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were adopted, had terrorists on their very doorstep! I refer to the American Indians. Families anywhere near the frontier daily faced the possibility of what Publius called “depredations” by “savages,” (Fed. #24) and we would call a terrorist attack.
Nowadays, we’re more sympathetic to the notion that the Indians were defending their homeland and way of life, and they had a right to do so. We also know that our side perpetrated more than their share of massacres, too. But by the isolated perspective of a pioneer settlement, it was terrorism.”
What I was trying to say was, speaking of Native Americans, I’d love it if more students of political organization were aware of the political expertise of the Iroquois. I have heard a saying, that the creator gave the gift of weaving to the Navajo and the gift of good government to the Iroquois. Even today we could learn from them.
RevDeb @
58
Doesn’t this docudrama masquerading as the truth violate FCC regulations? ABC can broadcast whatever crap they want so long as it’s labeled accurately. If the RNC has bankrolled it, haven’t they violated campaign financing laws? How about equal time for a response? Personally, I’d prefer a firing squad, shaken, not stirred.