Among the many pleasures of having John Dean on the blog today was this wonderful anecdote, which I had not heard before:
Rumsfeld came to the Nixon White House in 1970 some five months after I arrived. At the time, I asked White House chief of staff Bob Haldeman what Rummy was going to be doing. “Nothing,” Haldeman told me, explaining that they were placing him on the White House staff (giving him a sinecure) to bolster his chances to win a Senate race in IL.
In time, Haldeman — not to mention — Nixon came to distrust Rumsfeld. Many thought Nixon appointed him Ambassador to NATO as a promotion. In fact, they wanted to get him out of the White House. Haldeman called Rumsfeld “slimmy” in his contemporaneous diaries, and Nixon is heard on his tapes discussing Rumsfeld in less than flattering terms.
Most ironic, given Rumsfeld’s current position on Iraq, Rumsfeld argued that Nixon should get the hell out of Vietnam. Rummy was a cut and run guy back then.
Maybe all the Republicans trying to beef up their anti-war credentials for November by bagging on Rumsfeld can make use of it.
In the mean time, anyone who didn’t get to witness John Dean, Joe Wilson and Prof. Bob Altemeyer kicking it around in the comments section should treat themselves and have a look. It was a delight.
Update: Further inquiry has determined that there was a typo — it is "slimy" not "slimmy." Which makes a whole lot more sense, come to think of it.
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Roots!
I…am…KIROK!
That was absolutely the best part of Mr. Dean’s commentary. I’ve passed it on…
He can never escape that picture with Saddam. He knew what he was doing.
Now, he has lied us into a war that he has lost. Americans can forgive the lie (sadly)—we won’t forgive the loss.
Go away Donny!
What a treat this community is, and it obviously attracts quality people. Many thanks to you and Christy and everyone else for making it possible.
Hooray Fitz, Jane, Christy, FDL, and John Dean.
OT: Anyone know if this story is true, linked by Watertiger today, to the general’s site? BTW, the comment section at Jesus’ General is pretty funny.
Maine National Guard members in Iraq and Afghanistan are never far from the thoughts of their loved ones.
But now, thanks to a popular family-support program, they’re even closer.
Welcome to the “Flat Daddy” and “Flat Mommy” phenomenon, in which life-size cutouts of deployed service members are given by the Maine National Guard to spouses, children, and relatives back home.
The Flat Daddies ride in cars, sit at the dinner table, visit the dentist, and even are brought to confession, according to their significant others on the home front.
“I prop him up in a chair, or sometimes put him on the couch and cover him up with a blanket,” said Kay Judkins of Caribou, whose husband, Jim, is a minesweeper mechanic in Afghanistan. “The cat will curl up on the blanket, and it looks kind of weird. I’ve tricked several people by that. They think he’s home again.”
At the request of relatives, about 200 Flat Daddy and Flat Mommy photos have been enlarged and printed at the state National Guard headquarters in Augusta. The families cut out the photos, which show the Guard members from the waist up, and glue them to a $2 piece of foam board.
Sergeant First Class Barbara Claudel, the state family-support director who began the program, said the response from Guard families has been giddily enthusiastic.
I just got my computer back today. I missed Ambassador Wilson, but I didn’t miss John Dean.
Thanks, Jane, and thanks to the moderators for working so hard to keep it all flowing.
Margot @ 8
Bonus time, Amb. Wilson had some mighty fine comments on the Dean thread.
Jane!!
Are you sure “slimmy” isn’t a misspelling for “slimy”?
Or maybe it’s one of those manhood jokes…
TBH @ 11
Maybe it’s both. :-P
The questions which keep repeating on me about the Bush administration is, “who are those guys?” And. “Who’s in charge?” These should not be difficult questions. But they are “slimmy”. Slippery if you will. Is it Cheney? Or is someone playing Dick like a cheap banjo? I dunno.
so J. Dean is not an absolutely perfect speller in the heat of quickly answering questions in written format …
big fucking deal ! when Jane publishes today’s salon in book form, minor gaffes will be smoothed out…
That thread will go down as one of FDLs greatest moments; one that lead to even greater things. I’m glad to say I was at least wearing pants when I participated.
Jane – that was the most awesome experience!
John Dean was the best guest – his comments so thoughtful – and working his way through all those questions! wow!
Oklahoma kiddo @
13
Oh, my goodness gracious!
awwww Tommy! you dressed up for it!
707 siun!
tommy yum @ 15
Now I kind of regret not participating. I chose to go into lurk mode because I have not read Dean’s book…just more proof of how, if you don’t schmooze, you lose.
Haldeman called Rumsfeld “slimmy” in his contemporaneous diaries…
Donald “Slimmy” Rumsfeld.
I guess he was just a skinny kid right out of college back then.
Hi, Jane! I was telling my sister about you at dinner, and it turns out she actually had an Oliver Stone/Natural Born Killers encounter.
*ilson- thank you for recanting on the spelling issue. ;) ;). And, feel free to delete this comment after reading. xxoo
[damn i love our mods!]
Actually I think it’s ’slimy’. But typos occure. Oops there’s another one.
Is it “benrand” or “beenbanned”?
The troll that was at #19 was just the most perfect example of a right-wing authoritarian follower. Even when you hold the mirror for them, they still can’t see themselves.
Hit F5 to reload the page. Things have changed.
When you mix a shot of slimy with a jigger of scummy and shake with half pint of Rumsfled you get a Slimmy Rummy.
-GSD
TBH @
11
I checked. You are right. It is “slimy.”
al-Scooter @ 27
I missed out again, but at least I don’t regret it this time.
Jane, the comment is still available in moderation, should you wish to respond. hehe.
al-Scooter @ 28
They’re vampires? I always thought vampires had a certain… panache.
What ever happened to John Dean’s wife Maureen, or “Mo” as she was called? Is he still married to her?
imagine how bad you have to be to have Haldeman AND Nixon call you slimy. shuddering.
what a jam-packed amazing read that thread was. i got back late… it was nearly wrapped up when i started reading. i couldn’t believe the depth and breadth of the discussion. thanks much to all.
Valley Girl @ 32
Damn, VG, you are fast.
Jane,
I haven’t heard you weigh in on the whole Rummy no confidence thing the Dems are cooking up. What’s your take on it?
Cut and Run – You Bet
By Lt. General William Odom
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/s…..ry_id=3430
One of the better analyses on the issues associated with ’staying the course.’ Slimmy ought to take note!
windje
Eli @ 33
Trolls are a lot like vampires. First they bite, and then they suck.
karen allen @ 35
Is she an interdimensional outer-space being?
I missed out again, but at least I don’t regret it this time.
You really didn’t miss anything, EDP. It was a content-free string of cusswords, mostly. It was just illustrative of somebody whose coping skills have pretty much evaporated but who still fels compelled to do the work of Dear Leader.
al-Scooter @ 42
It was a “What shit are you smoking?” troll.
I always thought vampires had a certain… panache.
Panache rose? Must’ve been a poor year for that vintage.
allegedly Persian rugs deliberately contain one slight imperfection since perfection is an attribute only of Allah …
John Dean’s extra “m” is another reminder he puts his pants on one leg at a time like any other mortal …
as a local government bureaucrat of many years, I’ve learned how to justify anything !
*ilson46201 @ 44
Now, see, that’s an idea I can respect.
Thank you, Jane- for today’s wonderful book salon. I carried CWC and a copy of last weeks comments (amazing) around with me all week, squeezing in reading a page here and a page there, determined to finish in time for today. I made it and am so glad I did!
ccmask #7- it is sad but true; heard it on NPR; especially struck by one of the grotesque aspects -that they are life sized but only from the waist up.
Great ancedote by Dean.
I also want to say that there’s something up with the DC press, they’re actually being agressive (I’m still adjusting). Russert was excellent with Santorum and Casey today (and I really hate to say anything good about Russert), even Chris Wallace (the ultimate Stepford Anchor!) was aggressive with BOTH Libby Dole and Chuck Schumer.
My opinion is that the blogs are doing a vastly better job than the MSM at asking serious questions… so the DC maidens have to throw off the covers, stand up, and join the real world.
And, Obermann is clearly the new and updated Murrow – please let him continue having strong opinions and speaking out!
karen allen @
34
He mentions her in the preface, which is a riveting account of the neocons attempt to swiftboat him. I have no links, but I think they are still married.
Were it not for his conviction, courtesy of Nixon, he is what you want in a U.S. Senator or a SC Justice. Compare him with Sam Alito.
BTW, Jane, thanks for all your work putting those book salons together.
Eight retired generals have called for Rummy’s resignation. Without reading the block below, how many can you name? (Emphasis mine)
***************************************************************
One can only guess at the number of generals still serving who feel the same way.
Dru @ 46
Funny, I thought Harlow’s experiment already showed what a bad idea that could be. Leave it to a wingnut not to know principles of psychology that were established fifty years ago.
Ah, the Anguish Language. And, I thought it was spelled slimey, and so it is, in the UK. I couldn’t find a better ref., but this one is amusing:
The noun gob has 3 meanings:
Meaning #1: a man who serves as a sailor
Synonyms: mariner, seaman, tar, Jack-tar, Jack, old salt, seafarer, sea dog
Meaning #2: (British) a lump of slimey stuff
Meaning #3: informal terms for the mouth
Thanks OJS.
Now we need the Air Force and the Navy to climb aboard. It’s only those taking the majority of the casualties, Army and Marines.
I’m really pissed that Schwarzkopf hasn’t come out against Rummy.
Cut & Run Don, shaking hands with Hussein. To be so sleazy that even Nixon was creeped out – that’s something. Makes me channel an: “Oh my stars.”
*************
Just swam through the BookSalon, while picking grass and hay out of my hair and digging icthamol from my fingernails.
That was a wonderful exchange. Huge props to The Jane Hamsher(singular)of the left.
Dean has some great stories as well as insight, Dr. Bob and Glenn were fascinating, as were all kinds of comments. That Joe Wilson dropped in too was lovely. KO’s ears should be burning. *g* John C – you have me pegged, that was the answer I was most struck by.
Dean is right that we can still take back control of govt, so the feelings of lost hope may be overplayed, but some things really are gone. With America enaging in “out in the open” State Sponsorship of torture and kidnap and murder and war crimes – all acquiesced in by pretty much all institutions, most shockingly Justice, we’ve lost something that might have only been a veneer, but one that made tremendous difference. But for a few like Mora and others in the military the institutions were there and ready to hold – the people failed. That’s where our trust has really resided over time – not so much in a faith in institutions, but in the fact that Americans could basically believe in other Americans bc of some very basic shared values.
Coming to terms with the loss of that belief changes the nation in and of itself. Couple it with the failure of the myth that accompanies historic events, like the Sat night massacre, to realize that now we have people who not only would not balk at firing a prosecutor, they don’t balk a torture, kidnap, coverup, misrepresentations to the Courts and, in effect, solicting felonies and crimes of violence with the re: lines on their memos; and it is very hard not to feel a sense of betrayal.
I think that the careful moderation of this blog, in which Jane and Christy have stayed engaged for the whole thread or deputized others to do so, has made a great deal of difference.
The fact that the comments are themselves often extremely thought provoking has attracted people who are up for a challenge without being up for a fight. (Whiskey Bar used to have unbelievable comments, but Billmon couldn’t spend the time he needed to maintain it and shut them down.) There’s no hit and run posting. Many of us stick around for the chat, not just dropping a pithy aphorism, but waiting to hear back and to learn.
John Dean stayed because it was worth it to be part of an entire conversation. The more we post in a sustained manner, the longer the volley, the better this blog will be.
All the blog gardening at the Lake means that people whose views really matter are both appreciated and safe here.
This place just gets better and better.
so a despicable Britisher would be a slimey limey ?
John Casper, I saw someone refer to Amb. Wilson on that thread. Thanks for mentioning it.
I was trying to read as much as I could, and make dinner, etc.
It’s amazing what you can do with a couple of computer-free days: Learn 7 ways (at least) to annoy your kids with their electric guitar playing your oldies.
And 2 days ago I didn’t even play guitar, lol.
Jane Hamsher @
30
I don’t know about everyone else, but I read it as SLIMY, and took it as a typo at the time. Hey…I read typo fluently.
and Twiggy would be slimmy …
*ilson46201 @ 58
*And* a limey.
tommy yum @
15
I too was wearing pants. That was damned inspirational. (John Dean and Ambassador Wilson, I mean, not the pants).
On Rumsfeld–man, what kind of hideous monster do you have to be for freakin’ Nixon to find you creepy? I mean, if you give Nixon the willies, you are some kind of evil.
*ilson46201 @ 54
Ask Tony Blair. If anybody knows, it’s him.
Alison @ 53
I can only imagine!
cleter @ 59
LMAO.
*ilson- re: the imperfections. That is one I take to heart, and I have known about it for quite some time, being a lover of Persian rugs. I also remember, correctly I hope, that Amish ? quilts always included a deliberate error, so as not to offend the hand of God. I don’t remember where I learned this, but it has made me smile, especially when I’ve gone back and read grant proposals I’ve submitted and realized how many typos I’d made.
cleter @ 60
I would bet money that Nixon would have nothing good to say about Dubya.
cleter @ 59
Two words: Barbra Bush. Nixon didn’t like her either.
tommy yum @ 66
“That woman knows how to hate.”
Don’t forget that Rummy was chairman of G D Searle, a small drug co which was bought by Monsanto, which was bought by Pharmacia, which was bought by Pfizer.
Can you imagine what it must be like working for that guy in the private sector?
EvilDrPuma @
20
EDP – I kinda regret not participating today with John Dean too. Like you I haven’t yet read his new book although his fine “Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush”(Little,Brown 2004) knocked my socks off.
And how cool of Ambassador Joe Wilson to comment – can’t wait another minute to get caught up on today’s Sunday Book Salon!
Wasn’t there a very stupid sabretooth tiger named Slimodon?
Cut & Run Don, shaking hands with Hussein. To be so sleazy that even Nixon was creeped out – that’s something. Makes me channel an: “Oh my stars.”
*************
Just swam through the BookSalon, while picking grass and hay out of my hair and digging icthamol from my fingernails.
That was a wonderful exchange. Amazing. Huge props to The Jane Hamsher(singular)of the left.
Dean has some great stories as well as insight, Dr. Bob and Glenn were fascinating, as were all kinds of comments. That Joe Wilson dropped in too was lovely. KO’s ears should be burning. *g* John C – you have me pegged, that was the answer I was most struck by.
Dean is right that we can still take back control of govt, so the feelings of lost hope may be overplayed, but some things really are gone. With America enaging in “out in the open” State Sponsorship of torture and kidnap and murder and war crimes – all acquiesced in by pretty much all institutions, most shockingly Justice, we’ve lost something that might have only been a veneer, but one that made tremendous difference. But for a few like Mora and others in the military the institutions were there and ready to hold – the people failed. That’s where our trust has really resided over time – not so much in a faith in institutions, but in the fact that Americans could basically believe in other Americans bc of some very basic shared values.
Coming to terms with the loss of that belief changes the nation in and of itself. Couple it with the failure of the myth that accompanies historic events, like the Sat night massacre, to realize that now we have people who not only would not balk at firing a prosecutor, they don’t balk a torture, kidnap, coverup, misrepresentations to the Courts and, in effect, solicting felonies and crimes of violence with the re: lines on their memos; and it is very hard not to feel a sense of betrayal.
***********************
Batiste is still swinging at Rumsfeld – you have to admire him (the Gen)
EvilDrPuma # 50- thanks for the link; interesting. Since the wingers generally eschew science, I guess they are being consistent.
John Casper @ 52
Following the Iran prelude over at Pat Lang’s and John Robb’s blogs these last few months, I’d bet that the USAF/USN contingents still think they can accomplish something by aerial attacks designed to create “cascading systems failures” in Iranian society. It’s essentially what the IAF just tried in Lebanon.
You can make your own judgments about Israel’s success with that approach, but my sense is that as long as medals and promotions await the zoomies, they’ll be eager to show that airpower is the “combat arm of decision”. Or something.
Supposedly Nixon once said of William Rehnquist, “Who the hell is that clown?”
I wonder if Nixon ever met Dubya? It’s not inconceivable. He might have visited the Bushes some time when Dubya was passed out on the couch or something. Remember that footage of Young Bill Clinton shaking JFK’s hand? I wonder if there’s footage of Young Drunk Dubya vomiting on Nixon’s shoes?
Can you imagine what it must be like working for that guy in the private sector?
Back in the day, I met someone who had. He’d since left and was much happier.
Funny thing, which the press pretty much did not go after when Rummy was first nominated by Bush for Sec. of Defense, was that he was pulling the same routines when he was last in the job for Ford that he is now. No one in the press brought up that at the precise time that there were halting attempts to continue some manner of detente with the Soviets, he was waving his arms in press conferences and swearing that they were trying to do us in–today, the terrorists are here, there, and everywhere, north, south, east, west. Then, the Soviets were “busy, very busy, busy, busy, busy.” Rumsfeld had, then, spit out every bit of Team B’s bullshit. Rummy was at the forefront of getting their idiotic “intelligence analysis” in front of the cameras. The parallels between the neo-cons’ treatment of intelligence then and now are astounding.
And next to no one really hammered on the point that he and Cheney were Tweedledum and Tweedledee in the Ford White House. All that sort of slid by because Bush was entitled to get what he wanted. (Ho-hum….)
Congress could have saved us a lot of trouble by being just a bit more skeptical in the first place about his nomination….
cleter @ 73
According to the Southerner Daily News, the truth is more horrible even than you can imagine:
LindyH @ 56
I took it as “slimey” when I read it. There were similar double-peck typos here and there throughout Dean’s virtuoso performance.
Sort of like the difference between listening to a live performance of Van Cliburn and Sviatoslav Richter. Van Cliburn never missed a note, Richter could pull some big fingering errors. But I would have paid a week’s pay to see & hear Richter (I did once) and pass up a free ticket to Van Cliburn.
A Christmas Carol.
Christmas Eve, 2006. Bush, in a night shirt and cap, is visited by the ghost of Richard Nixon. Dick is hunched, like some ghastly Ed Sullivan. His voice is as hollow as his eye sockets:
“I forged these chains, link by link and yard by yard. Except that one there, which that asshole Kennedy stuck on my chain. Anyway, they won’t have Nixon to kick around any more.”
BUSH: “There’s more gravy than the grave about you. Heh heh. Or mebbe more spirits than the spirit. Heh heh heh!”
DICK: “Look, I’m supposed to save your sorry ass, but frankly I don’t see the point. You’re the only guy I know who makes me look good by comparison. Just keep doing what you’re doing, and tell your mother I’m keeping her seat warm.”
EvilDrPuma @ 76
Oh. my. Gawd. Ewwwww. Thank the stars that didn’t take. What if they’d reproduced? Imagine the vile homunculus that would be produced by combining Dubya’s DNA with Nixon’s. Arrgghh.
Eli @ 66
“That woman knows how to hate.”
Hmm, I didn’t take that remark of Nixon’s to be dislike. It was more along the lines of mutual admiration. After all, Nixon was the keeper of the political enemies list. I think he had some respect for her ability to hold a grudge–a personal quality inherited by her eldest son.
‘My goodness!…I’m mellllttiiiinnng!‘
;>)
What if they’d reproduced? Imagine the vile homunculus that would be produced by combining Dubya’s DNA with Nixon’s. Arrgghh.
It seems redundant to me, since Dubya’s already like a Nixon-Harding hybrid.
John Casper @ 52
JC: Schawrzkopf has been critical of Rumsfeld, but so far has not called for his resignation. He may feel himself being in a delicate situation because of his closeness to Poppy.
Nice one, darkblack!
Mary4 #70:
Serious starpower on the Book Salon thread today. John Dean and Robert Altmeyer being introduced by Glenn Greewald, while Joe Wilson drops by to say hi. And some commenters recognizable from other blogs, just for some garnish. And all this from a standing start in ‘04?
I like to think I’m pretty jaded (it complements my cynicsm, don’t you think?), but the sheer verticality of FDL’s trajectory is sick.
cleter @ 79
Does Conan O’Brien still do that “If They Made It” segment? Still…it’s not entirely unlikely that they did make it. Excuse me, I think I’m going to be sick.
Mary4- did you see my earlier comment about possibly restoring your laptop to the settings before that ActBlue thingy? *ilson’s here now, so maybe he can help.
Eli @ 82
That’s true. Actually, more like a cross between Nixon and Rutherford B. Hayes. But a Bush-Nixon hybrid…that would be the kwisatz haderach of political suck.
Alison! are you a Whiskey Bar refugee too!? there are more than a few of us here!
tommy yum @ 15
um…. we were supposed to wear pants?
uh-oh
al-Scooter @ 85
al-Scooter- I hope you will clarify *that* part of the comment. Can’t be giving the wrong impression here!!! ;)
cleter @ 88
LOL! Honey, could you go get the spatula?
OldCoastie @ 90
It’s cool. Dr. Bob was as naked as the day he was born.
It’s nice to know that this evil minded shrimp, Crumby Rumpsfeld is getting a 200 million dollar propaganda budget to help smear the media and the rest of us with the big fat “traitor brush” he keeps in his back pocket, next to his tin of Rummy Pomade.
-GSD
Rummy: Hey Wolfie, can you suck my comb, I misplaced my hair wax.
OldCoastie @ 90
Actually the wimmen wear the pants/ skirts in the family, should they chose to do so.
Alison @ 53
Let me second that and offer my deepest thanks to the people who run this place. That John Dean would enter and hang around for four hours engaged in thoughtful discussion with participants is truly amazing.
It is am embarrassment of riches that I can mingle with this crew.
For what it’s worth, I wasn’t trying to be an anal retentive nitpicker about the “slimmy/slimy” stuff. (OK, I’m an English teacher, yes, but we don’t care about such trivialities these days–we’re perfectly aware of the social origins of linguistic judgments. Whenever that schoolmarm attitude rears its head, it’s just a manifestation of symbolic violence….)
Instead, though, I was just trying to figure out what the connotation of either term might have been. “Slimmy,” for example, could be an affectionate reference to the relatively neutral fact of Rummy’s physique.
But “slimy” (or “Slimey,” whatever)–man, I’d like to hear more about why that one occurred to Haldeman.
I’m glad to say I was at least wearing pants when I participated.
That has got to be one of the best comments ever. I want a T shirt with that on it.
Goodnight, gang. My contacts are as dry as cornflakes.
Thanks, Tommy.
‘We’re off to see the Wizard…The Wonderful Wizard of Strauss!’
;>)
OldCoastie @ 90
I was wearing jodhpurs.
Valley Girl @ 96
You have a very nice family.
This morning there was a rat that fell into an empty garbage can looking for the dog food. He could not get out. Trapped. Well folks that is what is going to happen to
this administration when the House goes Democratic in
06 and impeachment hearings begin in earnest. They will
be like that rat, scurring around with no where to go in
the face of Congressional inquiry. Lets just hope the
new leadership in the House speaks Truth to Power and
rises with the will of the American people to take back
this Democracy. I tipped the can over and had my dog
Sam put his head in there to seize the rat. He knows
instinctively how to deal with these bastards!
The conversations this afternoon in the book salon
made me feel very proud to be a citizen of this great
country. John Dean is the Paul Revere of the moment.
TBH @ 98
Personally expressed standards of comparison inevitably, by definition, derive from one’s own values. In comparison to Haldeman’s terribly low standards for personal ethics, Rummy was much worse. (Eeeeeeeekkkkk!)
Valley Girl @ 91
al-Scooter @ 85
If you’re referring to my usage of the term “sick”, in contemprary slang it’s the equivalent of “unbelievable”. And verticality is the measure of an athlete’s jumping ability from a standing position. For example:
‘kay?
alScooter – I got it and I must be older than VG! too many hours in mod VG – you just have to get out more dear!
Terror Prosecutions Down
The report doesn’t look like there’s been a real effective response, but
Ahhhh, betcha Bryan means all the times we just kidnap and skip the pesky evidence stuff and call it a “strategy.” You know, the strategy – commit war crimes.
Brilliant strategy.
Guess that depends on what you call self-defeating. Just like Iraq is being left for someone else to deal with – who gets to deal with the kidnapped torture victims – the living, the dead. The ones who were mistakes, or maybe bad guys, but only little bad guys – not really your basic kidnap and torture material. The families – including children, growing older every day also taken into custody. Who “takes care” of that and is there a nice little OLC memo floating on the ultimate solution as well? What about the really bad guys? What now and what then – after they have been tortured by us, for us, a sponsorship from us?
Just one of the little “kefuffles” Cheney, Bush, Addington, Rumsfeld, etc. plan on forgetting about – plan on putting others on the front lines as the pawns to fall before anyone brings accountability home to them. Another Affidavit and memo, like the ones in Arar and el-Masri (and as an aside, I think the Prosecutor who went for the death penalty against Moussaoui is now working at Lockheed too), or do you even get to that – do you release the mistakes or tuck your kids in knowing you helped bury them? What a horrible mess and failure. And whatever you think of Fitzgerald, don’t think that a case like his Salah case won’t be used as the rabbit for more cases, justifying the use of torture testimony.
No wonder the Bush crew thinks its time for something more spectacular, like Iran, as a distraction. Some day someone is going to have to explain to the next President just how far the war crimes have gone – and ask him what they do.
al-Scooter @ 107
I am verticality-challenged.
karen allen @ 34
Not only that, she comes up in the preface to Conservatives Without a Conscience. In 1991 a slimer (or slimmer) was peddling a book alleging Dean masterminded the Watergate break-in to bust up a call-girl ring, implying Mo was part of it.
The Deans cleaned up in their libel suit, but not before they got a “So sue me!” call from G. Gordon Liddy from a wingnut talk radio show, to which the host added a leering word about Mo. Being public-spirited men, they gave out the Deans’ home number on the air.
After the incident Dean woke up to the fact that “the Republicans and conservatism had undergone drastic changes” that included a thirst for “conspicuously false history.” His project evolved from there after seminal discussions with Barry Goldwater.
I am verticality-challenged.
But not alone on that performance parameter. The term “credit card leap” must’ve been coined for Yrs. Trly.
* Al-Qaida in Iraq’s No. 2 is captured
* NATO: 200 Taliban killed in offensive
The top two Yahoo news stories.
Looks like the hard push is on to make things look better than the fly infested quagmire they appear to be.
Next week it will be 400 Taliban killed and Al Qaeda number 1 1/2 killed.
-GSD
GSD … I shudder to think who is really in those “200 Taliban”! after reading Fisk’s discussion of the early days of the war in Afghanistan …
montag @ 80
Hmm, I didn’t take that remark of Nixon’s to be dislike. It was more along the lines of mutual admiration. After all, Nixon was the keeper of the political enemies list. I think he had some respect for her ability to hold a grudge–a personal quality inherited by her eldest son.
From Kitty Kelley’s The Family, pg. 493, Gore Vidal quotes Nixon describing George H.W. Bush:
al-Scooter and Siun- geez- sorry. I don’t watch TV and I don’t have a teenager, so I am lingo challenged. Please bear with me. Always learning. And, I loved this from the Book Salon thread:
John Casper: Mr. Dean, only if you think it’s appropriate, the next time you speak with Keith Olbermann, please pass on that a lot of us love his home run call: “Deep, and I don’t think it’s playable.”
From Kitty Kelley’s The Family, pg. 493, Gore Vidal quotes Nixon describing George H.W. Bush:
If he thought Bush I was a lightweight…
This entry by John Dean was the one that jumped out at me when I read it, it was a hot damn! moment even if I did have to do a double take at the ’slimmy’ and realize he meant slimey. I loved everything he had to say, his entry on Keith O was my second favorite one. Hope that has been passed on to Countdown by now.
The whole session was one big aura of heightened awareness that you could feel coming through the screen from everyone, and respect for the input and insights. Outstanding and unforgettable.
Valley Girl @ 116
My favorite Keithism ever was from when he was mentioning a Minnesota Timberwolves losing streak:
“They are drooling the drool of regret… on the pillow of remorse.”
I was reading for context *g* but I’m glad I got a confirmation on “sick” verticality. I’m with you al-Scoot – like totally draminedropping sick.
VG – yes (thank you so much btw – you’re a gem) I got that comment. Maybe if *ilson gets a chance he can email me if something comes to mind on how to do that? I’ll have to look but it was either when Sestak or Massa was up I think. I pestered Matt at his sight and he got *ilson for me right when it happened, but it’s been resistant to fixing since. The log in thing I’m doing *works* but with drawbacks and I miss comments.
Siun,
We know from the likes of Glenn Blech and Michael Savage-Weiner that young Muslims are simply pre-terrorists.
Color me sickened.
-GSD
Valley Girl @ 115
VG, given some of what’s out there now, I’m taking your innocence as a symbol of refinement. And while I’m on the subject, please ditto me re: thanks to you and the other mods. We appreciate your tireless efforts more than we can express.
I love that his post had that typo. It’s somehow emblematic of the immediacy of this medium.
another hurrah for the mods today… that must’ve been a beast… but the thread stayed beautiful and smooth…
and poor John Dean! I’m sure at some point it became yeoman’s work! (we are such a talky bunch!)
GSD – I do think they are making a sincere effort in Afghanistan – now. I also know that there were reports that they did much more before this offensive to basically let civilians know they were coming and the civilians needed to be somewhere else when they got there – so that’s IMO a big improvement. Lots can’t leave or are too scared of looting what little they have, etc. but at least someone is making an effort. Still, if you read the story you see how misleading the headline is – the *numbers* are all over the place and everyone admits there’s no real way to tell – how that headline evolved from the text of the story is a mystery. I thought Afghanistan was a bit lost with the constitution that enshrined Sharia and no real US commitment to developing jobs or an economy there, but while I’ve lost hope entirely for Iraq – I still want to believe and Afghanistan is all that’s left.
Mary4 – please read the Fisk book … then see what you think of the reports.
From the start, the Afghan war was mishandled and misdirected … small villages with no connection to anything, anything … bombed out of existence. And having completely mangled the whole effort, we now go around bombing “taliban” rather than addressing the issues that matter like turning the country over the brutal feudal warlords while leaving what little infrastructure there was decimated.
al-Scooter @ 121
VG, given some of what’s out there now, I’m taking your innocence as a symbol of refinement. And while I’m on the subject, please ditto me re: thanks to you and the other mods. We appreciate your tireless efforts more than we can express.
al-Scooter- thanks. I am not necessarily innocent and refined (tho I was raised to be). It’s just that my vernacular dates to the late 60s and early 70s in CA where the F word, for example, was used liberally. I really had to pull that back when I first came to the South, and was lecturing to a new generation of students.
Whoa, Inspector Morse is coming up. I know it’s a re-run, but I’ll take what I can get.
Have a great Late Nite, all!
Late Nite thread
Rumsfeld personifies the Bush administration. I don’t know if it is useful to excise him, I think he might as well drown when the Titanic that is the Bush administration is going to sink.
OT:
NYT reviews Ramesh Ponnuru’s book, “Party of Death”.
Sorta made him look a little hypocritical and mealy mouthed.
All the swells hangin’ around here is there still room for a truck driver?
cleter @ 73
I think when Nixon was deciding to appoint Rehnquist to the Supreme Court, he referred to him as “Renchberg.”
Sonoma – sure, the comments here have really slipped in quality… Did you have a chance to read the book salon thread a bit earlier? Dean, Wilson, Greenwald and others sure thought that the comments here were worthwhile. And so, for what it is worth, do I.
newbie approachin’:
On this Rumsfeld “appeasement” question:
Azzaman, the Baghdad/London based daily, said on Saturday Sept 1 that James Baker was in Baghdad talking to the two top Sunni officials in the government. Reuters said that too. What Azzaman added (and it seems nobody picked up on) was that Baker brought with him a message from Bush to tribal chiefs and other Iraqi leaders that are not currently part of the political process. Naturally the content of the message wasn’t explained, but the reporter said well-placed Iraqi sources told him Bush was offering assurances “to all parties”, in exchange for serious efforts to end the violence. I looked up the expression I thought meant “assurances” (”tatminaat”) in my Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic, and the definition was as follows: “appeasement, mollification, calming, assuaging, soothing”.
Bush possibly sent Baker to try and help out with the national reconciliation process PM Maliki is trying to get going. A big stumbling block so far has been Sunni groups’ insistance on “recognizing the resistance”, something that US officials are said to have rejected angrily. Now we have Baker on the scene, possibly trying to re-start this delicate process, and at the same time the military boss Rumsfeld is shouting “no appeasement”. What can we make of this ?
op99 @
114
From Kitty Kelley’s The Family, pg. 493, Gore Vidal quotes Nixon describing George H.W. Bush:
IIRC, Janis Karpinski called the Bush administration ‘so vindictive.’ Guess he comes by it honestly.
Also, whilst googling that, I found this comment by a psychotherapist.
darkblack @ 81
darkblack, that is perfect.
EPU’d – this log in sux
Siun – I have read it – Fisk is pretty amazing. It’s part of why I added “now.” I do think that Afghanisan is still a huge mess. Karzai has had to launch investigations into the US actions to get their attention. Karzai has had to launch investigations to get their attention to the fact that no govt can stand in Afghanistan and be aligned with the indiscriminate killing of its citizens by occupation troops. I’ve also read about how horrible the aid issues have been and the senseless idiocy of some of the military actions. But I do think, much more recently, it has begun to occur to some that Afghanistan actually could, while no one is paying attention, go into the loss category and NATO forces have picked up. So I do think there is a much overdue and possibly too little, too late focus on actually trying to figure it out and do it right. Now. I’m not a big believer that it is going to work or that you can “go back” after several years of casual indifference and civilian killings, but I do think that there has been a shift. I’m not going to hold out much hope though, but I have to hope somewhere for something and Afghanistan is all I see as having a toehold.
EPUd, but that was a fine thread. I stopped refreshing at about 300 because I felt a bit bad about John Dean methodically replying to everyone in order, and feared he’d be around till tomorrow morning. What a guy.
pol @ 2
Not to miss the part about Kennedy/Warren Commission, where Dean said there are still things we don’t realize.
lol, your update re the typo is ‘furher’ evidence of typos….good work.
Henry Kissenger once called Rumsfeld “the coldest man alive”.
Rummy is not just a dummy but a huge asshole.
spiderpaws @
142
If the frigid Dr. K. thinks Rummy is the coldest man alive…..
The whole comment section of that John Dean book salon [2] would make a great book in and of itself – Firedoglake Fireside Chats.
It was absolutely remarkable!