
In an awkward pivot from Bush’s failed Katrina response anniversary, the President tries to drum up support for additional wars with Iran and Syria, heading toward the 9/11 anniversary, while stuck in the Iraqi debacle. Some choice excerpts of his speech on August 31, 2006.
The enemies of liberty come from different parts of the world, and they take inspiration from different sources. Some are radicalized followers of the Sunni tradition, who swear allegiance to terrorist organizations like al Qaeda. Others are radicalized followers of the Shia tradition, who join groups like Hezbollah and take guidance from state sponsors like Syria and Iran. Still others are "homegrown" terrorists — fanatics who live quietly in free societies they dream to destroy. Despite their differences, these groups from — form the outlines of a single movement, a worldwide network of radicals that use terror to kill those who stand in the way of their totalitarian ideology.
Okay. We have a worldwide boogeyman but the big ol’ fat bullseye is painted on Iran and Syria.
Second, we have made it clear to all nations, if you harbor terrorists, you are just as guilty as the terrorists; you’re an enemy of the United States, and you will be held to account.
He has done so well with Iraq, now he wants to expand the war. And he will.
The Iranian regime arms, funds, and advises Hezbollah, which has killed more Americans than any terrorist network except al Qaeda. The Iranian regime interferes in Iraq by sponsoring terrorists and insurgents, empowering unlawful militias, and supplying components for improvised explosive devices. The Iranian regime denies basic human rights to millions of its people. And the Iranian regime is pursuing nuclear weapons in open defiance of its international obligations.
Like a gambler on a losing streak, Bush insists on doubling down. His administrations complete failure on the GWOT seeks to pick bigger fights with larger nations and even more dangerous adventures. Using new buzzwords like fascism, nazi, and Hitler, they are pandering to the warporn wing of the country, nastier images are required to achieve erection and gratification.
This administration will generate more wars. It is what they do, even if very badly. To stop them, Democrats must undertake a blistering assault on their warmaking. I’ll pass some ammunition.
Half of the people in Iraq are under eighteen, according to UNICEF. I wonder where their parents are and if they are enjoying their freedoms from them? Are the policies of this administration reducing the ranks of terrorists or increasing them?
The number of terrorist attacks worldwide increased nearly fourfold in 2005 to 11,111, with strikes in Iraq accounting for 30 percent of the total, according to statistics released by U.S. counterterrorism officials yesterday.
Does this make anyone feel safer? Not a very good track record coming from the Daddy party. This current track of escalating wars is doomed to fail for two very basic reasons. First of all, when someone is killed, usually it makes someone else upset that they lost their friend or family member. And maybe it pisses off several people. Some have been known to strike back indiscriminately, especially if the death of their friend or loved one was senseless. The Bush Doctrine, for this reason, is a terrorist multiplier.
The second reason it is doomed for failure is that a fella needs to work. When war comes to town, it sorta makes it hard to find a job, and soldiering is about the only game in town. And clearly Bush does not get these two points, even as simple as he is. Bush wants war, so the Democrats must give him one. Never explain, never defend, always attack. Keith Olbermann shows us how it’s done.
The man who sees absolutes, where all other men see nuances and shades of meaning, is either a prophet, or a quack. Donald H. Rumsfeld is not a prophet.
Mr. Rumsfeld’s remarkable speech to the American Legion yesterday demands the deep analysis—and the sober contemplation—of every American.For it did not merely serve to impugn the morality or intelligence — indeed, the loyalty — of the majority of Americans who oppose the transient occupants of the highest offices in the land. Worse, still, it credits those same transient occupants — our employees — with a total omniscience; a total omniscience which neither common sense, nor this administration’s track record at home or abroad, suggests they deserve.
Two words: K. O.




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OFG!
The New York Times endorses Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary for senator.
23? Busted!
OFG!
I thought chimpy’s speech was ominous…
Some are radicalized followers of the Sunni tradition, who swear allegiance to terrorist organizations like al Qaeda. Others are radicalized followers of the Shia tradition, who join groups like Hezbollah and take guidance from state sponsors like Syria and Iran.
It’s so good to see that Dubya finally knows the difference between Sunni and Shia.
ccmask @
2
Breaking! Breaking! Dog bites man! story at 11 !
The enemy is…us.
Slightly OT fly-by, but further on the agenda of the Bushies: flag burning.
Watch Skinheads USA: Soldiers of the Race War on A&E, and then tell me who the flag-burners are. It’s not the liberals and peace activists.
It’s the White Supremist skinheads, hating the Jew flag and burning crosses…it’s the Republican base. No wonder all those Rethug Congresscritters think there’s so much flag burning going on…they just look around their ‘hoods…
Props tonight to the working men and women of America. The true heroes of the day. Happy weekend everyone. Keep movin’ the small stones.
Thanks to Jane and Christy and Pach and TRex and the mods and posters…you’re my heroes too.
OFG: We are going to be subjected to so many more of them Bush speeches before 9/11/2006. I don’t know if I can read any more of them. Especially since so many cowards are distancing themselves away from him.
OFG, your metaphor of Bush as gambler is so apt. Trouble is there are smart gamblers and there are dumb gamblers. Doubling down in Bush’s position, with his chip stack beginning to look pretty wan, is dumb, dumb, dumb.
So why does he do it? Because that’s the way he has always played. He always leaves his mess for somebody else to clean up.
Nothing new here, move along now.
was this posted before?
How will Bush rev up his supporters into coming to the polls? Expect to hear the war drums on Iran.
if so, sorry :)
Don’t forget Bush’s trifecta.
I’m glad he’s got Sunni and Shi’ia separated, but I want to see him tackle Badr Brigade, and al-Sadr and the Mahdi militia – and he left out Hamas, and the brotherly guys in Egypt and …
OT from below thread –
VG – I have a comment that I tried to leave below thread that may be trapped in moderation. If you find it, let me know – it explains the laptop stuff a bit more. If not, I’ll try again from this connection.
Opium:
Risen’s book has a section about the Opium fields and a youngish Rep guy who really tried hard to make the case to Bush and who got a little assist from Powell right before Powell left. Rumsfeld cratered the concept of taking significant steps to curtail he crops, according to Risen’s source. This despite the fact that Bush gave the Rep a rousing “I won’t support a narco State” speech.
So Bush has turned everyone in the world into a boogeyman in order to reinforce the only language he knows – war. He never thinks to talk or to reason or to negotiate, only to threaten and blame and bomb. To think that on September 11th we had the world join with us in grief and resolve, only to wake up today to such ridicule and scorn, it’s just staggering. And with each passing day, I feel more left and radical and progressive in comparison.
Listening to Bill Winters today was really something. Spit it out!
orangejumpsuit @ 10
He’s also learned his gambling with someone else always covering his bets. Every single one of his “business enterprises” ended up with a bailout of one kind or another, until Rove got him into the Guv’s mansion in TX and the White House in DC.
Now he’s gambling with not just other people’s money but other people’s lives as well.
Dear Mr. Bush, You should finish the two wars on your plate before you start another. Ask your Daddy.
ccmask @ 2
The Times endorsement of Clinton is expectant. Anyone who’s in favor of the Senator’s re-election, it would seem, must support the Bush murderous Middle East policies. I haven’t noticed the NY Times calling for a pull-out from Iraq timetable.
Bush seems to have only one problem in his mind. How to boost his presidency rating…
Oklahoma: The story just popped up on Yahoo but it’s behind the great wall.
This afternoon, my neighbor, a life-long Republican, who had a Bush-Cheney lawn sign in front of her house this time two years ago, told me she would allow me (a registered Dem.) to complete her absentee ballot for her this Nov.
She sounded for all the world like she’d HAD ENOUGH.
There’s a change in the wind.
OFG!!!
Another winner and the perfect analogy … wow!
A related curiosity. A couple of years, there was a study published (sorry, can’t remember the source) that looked at decision-making–which people did well at it, which people did not.
What was found was that there was a sub-group of the people who made bad decisions who were very good at getting others to accept their poor reasoning and getting support for bad ideas, and they were the people in companies that spread disaster wherever they went.
They had one major characteristic in common–they weren’t bright enough to actually assess all aspects of a difficult situation and devise solutions–but, they had the ability to convince people marginally less intelligent than they that they were geniuses. They actually had a talent for getting other people to do things that would get those people in trouble.
Sound familiar?
montag @ 22
Good Lord, yes! I think you just described me perfectly.
OT: Every time I see a story like this before Election Day, my foil hat makes me wonder if they are rounding up the Democrat votes?
More Than 750 Suspected Criminals Arrested In North Tampa
Skip directly to the full story.
By KEITH MORELLI The Tampa Tribune
Published: Aug 30, 2006
TAMPA – Forty-eight deputies from across the county infiltrated the streets of Suitcase City during the past 45 days and busted hundreds of suspected muggers, thugs and thieves.
http://tbo.com/news/email/MGBK10S6HRE.html
750 x $40,000 a year to incarcerate….pretty good catch!
We have to peel away the rhetorical layers and expose the lunacy that Bush’s speeches – and those of the rest of the usual suspects – are signalling.
Iraq was never the problem. Saddam was a badass, but he was a contained badass. Some psycho bubblehead in the administration apparently thought that “taking down” Saddam would be as easy as that country-singer who put a tame and generally defenseless bear in a cage so he could shoot him for sport.
Afghanistan was a problem, one that might be a real success story if we had left enough of a force behind to counter the inevitable rise of the Taliban from the ashes of the original engagement.
Saudi Arabia is a problem, one that goes unaddressed because of Bush-family ties and the whole oil thing. It is no coincidence that most of the 9/11 hijackers came out of Saudi Arabia – a wholly repressive regime.
No one in the administration must have reviewed any history, must not have studied the Brits’ long and unsuccessful occupation for any clues as to what problems we would face there. How can you ignore the truth of history in favor of manipulated intelligence and expect success? It would be like me setting my scale back 10 pounds to convince myself I’ve lost weight, when a mere look in the mirror or being unable to zip my jeans would tell me the truth. “Oh, no – I HAVE lost weight – the scale tells me that, so pay no attention to how I look!”
There was no central front in the war on terror – that’s the insidious nature of terrorism. It’s not state-based, so a policy that any country that “harbors” terrorists must be held to account means that there is no country in the world that is safe from US attack – including, probably, this country, whose open borders and lax security allowed terrorists to live among us with little fear.
No one is looking to appease terrorists, but perhaps the Bush administration needs to see, as often as possible, the photos of Rumsfeld glad-handing Saddam back in the day, to remind them that one person’s appeasement is another’s playing both ends against the middle.
How would the average American – the working folks with kids and mortgages and bills – feel about eliminating the massive tax cuts for the wealthy, and putting that money immediately into real homeland defense? Into border security? Into an integrated terror watch list that actually works? How would they feel about putting some of that money into an energy policy that frees us from dependence on foreign oil?
Strip away the rhetoric and expose this BS once and for all.
OFG!
So…when did deterrence stop working? As I recall, it worked like a champ against the USSR. Didn’t nobody nuke nobody. If the US could deter unbeleivably nutty and blood-thirsty Stalin, with his thousand nukes, surely deterrence would work against Iran with a couple of nukes. In the 61 years since nukes were developed, a dozen countries or so countries (give or take) have acquired them. Some of those countries were not so nice. Who, upon acquiring them, immediately used them against a nuke-bearing foe? Nobody. Hell, who has used them at all? Only the US. The only time anybody developed and then immediately used them was at the end of WWII, and, well, that was sort of a special, one-tme-only, not-to-be-repeated unique kind of deal.
If Bush is seriously suggesting that Iran with a couple of nukes is worse than Stalin with a gajillion, he is stupider than I thought. And I think he’s pretty goddamned stupid.
Bush says that contrary to the recent Pentagon report, that Iraq is not falling into civil war. Well I agree with the President. Iraq is not ‘falling’ into civil war. It has already ‘fallen’. Our President, of course, is under-witted.
Eli for President.
OT – I’ve read the NYT article,
“New Questions About Inquiry in C.I.A. Leak”
by David Johnson. I know you guy have touched on it, but darn it, I do have new questions. *g* Also some additional info on old questions it seems. Read EW’s TNH/kos piece, but she didn’t mention my new questions – probably bc they are old to her. LOL
New info for me (EW probably has 14 archived articles on this ) was this:
Hmmm. Duberstein, who serves on the Board of Boeing, is on the CFR committees with Cheneys, and who has a political consulting firm. Just out of the blue, he asks Armitage to meet with Novak, for a chat. Armitage, who has had access to the memo with the “Wilson’s wife” info. And Novak just happens (despite his earlier – “they gave this info to me, I didn’t ask for it” – bit) to ask about the Wilson mess.
Another interesting point – Duberstein was all over the press and even wrote a NYT Op piece after Libby’s indictment, about the fact that Bush needed to bring in new blood – especially interesting with Cheney just moving Addington and Hannah around at OVP after Libby resigned.
From a MTP Transcript(link later)
What are the chances that Duberstein didn’t know Armitage was one of the leakers at this point? I’d have to think zilch and that Armitage talked to his friend, Duberstein, at some point to ask for a bit more info as to how it was that Armitage was asked o meet with Novak. From a quick google, I found this old post at TNH that has quotes from an article no longer available:
Wonder who that “advisor to GOP leadership” might be? Not that you would have a “for attribution” source that everything is peachy and “not for attribution” from the same source that there may be more still to come?
It was also news to me that Armitage only got his “Dear Richard” letter in February of this year.
Wonder what sealed the deal in Feb? A few weeks later in April, Rove is testifying for an unusual5th time. Then we get through the open hearing in Libby and immediately after that open hearing, when things are going to go dark for awhile, out comes word that Rove won’t have to eat his lunch all by himself.
Mary4 @
13
Mary- your present comment (above) came through just fine. I rescued your comment on the below thread. http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-275549
It never was seen in moderation- it ended up directly in spam- I checked for it after I read your present comment. *ilson is the computer expert. I am not. FWIW, I know that there is a caveat about “open and insecure proxies” I don’t want to say more, bec. I don’t really understand this, and I don’t want to add info for spammers. *ilson???? are you reading? Your help is needed!!!!
So, Iraq is not really 5 pounds of shit in a 2 pound bag, it just looks that way…
Anne- wow! You always have such spot on comments. Kudos again.
I think Bush will attack Iran just because he wants to. The thing I wonder about is, how long before other countries, maybe China and Russia, decide American needs a regime change and takes matters into their own hands? Bush has weakened the military so drastically that we don’t have the deterent power we once had. And Bush is just nucking futs and the whole world knows it. He’s the most dangerous leader on the planet now.
ccmask@24 “muggers, thugs and thieves” that sounds more like Republicans.
They’re rerunning the 1950s playbook for the parochial Rethug base. Back then, everything bad in the world was “communist”.
This led to such stellar decisions as purging from the government foreign policy experts who didn’t accept the idea of one unified globe-girdling communist conspiracy, which led us into bull-headed disasters like Vietnam.
Now ChimpCo is reissuing the same agitprop with the word ‘terraist’ replacing ‘communist’, playing to the willfully-ignorant Rethug base, with no knowledge of the world beyond their town’s Wal-Mart, to gullibly accept everything authoritarian White House Jesus says without question.
Mary4 @ 34
And all I could think of was Cher…some song about tramps and thieves…*g*
cleter @ 27
In the immortal words of our favorite Tom Friedman “We’re better off with a nuclear Iran than another Rumsfeld war.”
“The enemies of liberty come from different parts of the world, and they take inspiration from different sources. Some are radicalized followers of the Sunni tradition, who swear allegiance to terrorist organizations like al Qaeda. Others are radicalized followers of the Shia tradition, who join groups like Hezbollah and take guidance from state sponsors like Syria and Iran. Still others are “homegrown” terrorists — fanatics who live quietly in free societies they dream to destroy. Despite their differences, these groups from — form the outlines of a single movement“
What a crock. Lock them all in the same room and they’d kill each other. With al Qaeda being the first to go, IMO.
Thank you VG . I am doing the remote login and that is why they are coming through. The fact that my laptop posts are hitting as spam is something that finally makes sense. Every timeI would try to repost – it would say “duplicate comment” but nothing would ever show up and usually moderation stuff shows up for me, but says it is in moderation so I know it is not showing up in general.
I don’t know what the proxy stuff is either, but at least I know what is happening with the posts. I feel MontyPythonesque.
look, this might actually be the downfall of this president
he thinks he can declare ware without congress, he believes his authority to “use all necessary force” gives him the right to declare another front
I am not joking, this is what he believes
THIS will bring his impeachment, IF the democrats make it crystal clear he is taking the plan of the sick fraternity called the PNAC forward
we are more informed then the politicians, and we HAVE to make it CLEAR this is the work of the PNAC, and their goal who’s only purpose is putting more of the planets threasure in their own pockets
I have to wonder who wrote that speech for Dubya- even though the stupidity of the ideas ring true, I can’t imagine him having thought of the words, and stringing them together, all on his own.
Sorry folks, on the phone with my sister in California. Her best friend just got back from Lebanon.
me to me @ 40
Why shouldn’t he believe it? No one has stopped him, ever. That is what scares me.
I keep going back to Bush’s line:
Is Jr. saying that by putting American soldiers in a nearby shooting gallery those with a wish to kill Americans only have to sport for bus fare. And if the troops weren’t in Iraq to be shot at the “terrorists” might be motivated to get a plane ticket?
Because the whole ‘you have to go through Baghdad to get to Toledo’ doesn’t do it for me.
Now on the other hand, lawyers living near Cheney may feel safer because they know he prefers to do his lawyer shooting in the deserts of Texas… so maybe there is a precedence…
Valley Girl @ 32
Thanks, VG…been quite a week behind the curtain, hasn’t it?
Mary4- glad that was of some help. I wish *ilson were around- bec. the only solution I can think of is to restore you laptop settings to a date before you started having laptop problems. But I have no idea how to do that, or even if it would help. I usually figure out how to solve my own computer problems, but that is more intuitive and poking around in the dark, rather than being based on any real understanding of the underlying *fix*.
What’s interesting, if you’re arguing with some kind of winger, and they bring up Iran, is to ask them point-blank when nuclear deterrence stopped working against other countries. They’ll try to bring up 9/11, but cut them off. Iran is not a handful of crazies with plane tickets. It’s a real country, like the old USSR. Deterence worked against the USSR. In fact, it was the center-piece of Reagan’s foreign policy. Then ask them (and this is most effective against older Republicans, with fond memories of Reagan): was Ronald Reagan wrong? Was he completely wrong on defense policy? Or is Bush wrong? ‘Cause they can’t both be right.
That makes them uncomfortable and quiet for a good long time, usually. If you can get Republicans to compare Bush and Reagan in their own heads, Bush don’t look too good.
Mary4
Already posted, probably, but tomorrow’s NYT article indicates opium production has now reached record levels in Afghanistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09…..r=homepage
Valley Girl @ 40
I think Andy Dick writes his speeches.
The line from Bush’s speech that leaped out at me was “The war we fight today is more than a military conflict; it is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century.” That had to be from his speechwriter, because it sure doesn’t reflect the way in which he has fought this war.
He’s fought this strictly as a military conflict – “we’ve got the big guns, so of course we’ll win.” If he approached this as an ideological struggle, Gitmo and its sattelite operation in Bahgdad would never have happened. If he approached this as an ideological struggle, he never would have pissed off the rest of the world as he did in the runup to the invasion. If he approached this as an ideological struggle, he would have appointed a Muslim member of the State Department diplomatic corps to be his Undersecretary for Public Dipolomacy, instead of a career member of the GWB Fan Club. If he approached this as an ideological struggle, he would have deployed legions of ideologues – capitalist business leaders, for example – to make the ideological case for him.
But no, Bush is fighting an ideological war with a military mindset.
When will an active member of the senior military leadership stand up and tell him that he’s fighting the right war with the wrong weapons? The retired folks have tried, but until someone in a uniform with lots of ribbons and an office in the Pentagon does so, I’m afraid it’s not going to sink in.
Speaking of Cher, ever wonder how there is 20 mill for propagandizing Americans and monitoring American press to jump on them if they are not getting happy “tone” in their stories about Iraq, but if the soldiers need reinf helmets – we have to wait for Cher to organize it?
this is what we have to do, and I am starting tomorrow
we have to cut, copy, highlight the agenda from the PNAC, we have to cut, highlight the members, cheney, rumsfeld, wolfy, pearly, etc
and we have to MAKE SURE they KNOW these are ACTUAL statements from these people
really guys, look at this from his speech;
they HAVE TO BE ARMED with the information about the project for a new American century AND LEVEL CHARGES OF TREASON to the people that suffer this country to the whims of this SICK AND MANIACAL FRATERNITY, which has SICK members running this country
tryggth @ 44
My translation to this Bushspeak is;
“We need to be inept over there, cause Merkins get hurt by our ineptness over here.” (Katrina)
Anne- yes, re: behind the curtain. All these new WP wangle dangles are throwing us off our stride- and I’m not convinced that they’re all fixed.
OFG!
i did a littl blogwhorin’ for you at k.a., buddy.
nice ending with K.O.
the probability that these freaks will continue to poke sticks at the soft parts in Iran is strong. the likelihood that death and destruction will follow is a given. how will they continue to get soldiars over there without a draft?
SusanD @
33
That’s an interesting scenario. Probably a bit of what the British had in mind when they produced that recent feature that questions what the world would be like if George just was not in the picture. There will come a day when just just a Sino Soviet relationship will be quite a force – in other words, a superpower.
OFG,
Wow, good to see you posting. The only thing that really keeps me going is remembering the descent into failure by Bush after the levees broke in New Orleans. Now with the primary coming up here in NY I keep my head down and We are charging forward.
twolf1 @ 49
I assume you are snarking- I am on dialup, so it will be quite a while before I can download the link.
VG and Mary4 – definitely not *ilson here but I know that when I’m using my work laptop at home, I have to disable the proxy settings to connect to the net at all. You might check under tools, options, Lan Settings and see if a proxy setting is checked. If you can uncheck and then still get online – and this is where I am very uncertain – you may be able to post without the problem. Worth a try at least … maybe?
Eli for President. I like that.
This talk of containment and deterence like we used (succesfully) against the Soviet Union has been deemed a failed policy by Bush.
What he offers now is much better in his opinion.
Bluzzy and Lizzy, good to see you here.
Siun @ 59
Suin- I forgot you were a computer expert. I am repeating your comment, to make extrasuperduper sure that Mary sees it. What you say makes *intuitive* sense- and that’s all I have going for me with dealing with computers!
Mary4 @ 51
Yeah. To be honest, I’m still trying to parse that article. What are we doing, exactly? And since when do we have $20 million to blow on such an ill-defined piece of bullshit like that? This is so obviously more blowjob money. Absolutely nobody in Congress is watching this shit.
OT- Suin- I left you a comment at the end of the Suin! thread.
Jane Hamsher @ 60
This certainly isn’t meant to dis Eli, but one would not have to go very far to find an improvement over Dubya.
This being the “LONG WAR” as it often is
said to be by those who “started it” it is
only “natural” that Iran and Syria must be
“joined” into it.
If Iran had maybe 5 or 6 massively armed
aircraft carriers, something of a inter-
continental capable strategic air force
and a in-place satelite and control force
in place…yeah…ok…I get it…they could
rough us up maybe.
But they dont,havent and likely never will.
So all this “BUSH WACKING” going on has lots
to do with NAC neocon horseshit and putting
a BIG AMERICAN HAND on ME politics,governments
and the means of control over the damn oil.
Of course Bush and Cheney dont ever ever
mention that. Its all about TERROR! TERRORISTS!
FEAR! LONG WAR!
This bunch obviously REALLY WANTS TO INVADE
IRAN…they must be wetting their pants at
having to wait to do so.
IF anyone still thinks Iraq is just ducky
after the last three years of BUSH and CHENEY
“stratergising” they must be on some very
good drugs.
This kicking Iran around is all about some
lousy neocon warlust,American Imperialism in
the ME and rampant militarism run amok.
One thing worse than a “long war” is a
long attack of stupidity and ignorance.
This Bush 2 bunch wins that one everytime.
SusanD @ 33
China is not interested in regime change (except in its own corner of the globe). They just want to eradicate the history of foreign dominance. Right now China does not have to do anything other than what it has been doing. Bush could not do a better job of tilting the balance of power to China if he actually tried to.
Two things in China’s favor: Exremely positive trade balance and becoming a creditor nation to the United States. Buying up American assets is a third strategy. Establishing access to oil is right up there too. In all of these areas, the US has been conceding the game to China because we are too busy fighting wars and promoting a consumerist society.
Russia is looming on the horizon and so is India. Meantime, our national assets are going down the toilet hole of history. To be cleaned up by your children and your chldren’s children…if they are lucky.
He talks endlessly about the terrorist threat, ignoring threats that may be just as serious. And the Dems and true conservatives are not calling him on it.
We need to take the keys away from this drunk driver.
I saw a great bumper sticker earlier this week. It read: ‘W.A.R. Want Another Republican??’
Thought it was wonderful. With the various bumper stickers, the driver is definitely not a happy camper with this administration.
Still others are “homegrown” terrorists — fanatics who live quietly in free societies they dream to destroy. Despite their differences, these groups from — form the outlines of a single movement, a worldwide network of radicals that use terror to kill those who stand in the way of their totalitarian ideology.
What a perfect tie-in to the A&E documentary, “Skinheads USA: Soldeirs of the Race War”
Who will be the first to put White Supremacist Bill Riccio and others of his ilk *cough* George Allen *cough* Karl Rove *cough* on a par with Osama?
Disaffected young males ready to be roused into violence and hate…let’s see, Baghdad? Beirut? How about hometown Alabama.
The Republicans should be forced to respond to Democrats and the MSM demanding to know why they appease the White Supremacist skinheads–terrorists in our own country?
And a sidebar–Osama, the Unabomber, Grover Norquist–all intent on destroying the American government.
We need to take back the framing.
[and props to Siun…just caught up on the backthread]
When Bush give the strike order against Iran/Syria, without the authorization of Congress, will the military comply?
orangejump – right on.
Steve @
71
He’s going to claim that the authorization to use force in Iraq, granted by the US Congress, gives him authority to go into Iran.
Cozumel @ 38
Funny you should mention that. I’ve been half-way watching a Larry King re-run with Bill Maher, who said the same thing. In fact, he suggested that “divide your enemies” was a pretty good strategy. He therefore urged that, having started a Sunni/Shia civil war, we should take it and run. Let them fight each other over there so we don’t have to fight them here. Shades of Swift.
Mary4, lovely job as usual. I too noticed that Armitage says Novak asked him about Wilson, not the other way around. That suggests that Swopa and Emptywheel are right about there being a pre-Armitage Novak source. So who asked Duberstein to set this up? And — a question of my own — how could Armitage not know he was Novak’s source until nearly four months after The Column appeared? Curioser and curioser.
Steve @ 72
I can’t believe I’m saying this but yeah, they will. Oh, and Eli for Prez sounds good to me!
Oilfieldguy @
66
He would get my vote.
Lizzy @ 76
And mine.
Christine@73 True, but will the military comply? The christo-fascists in the USAF can’t wait to bomb, but will the other service chiefs remember their duty to the Constitution and the American people?
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2….._fit_iraq/
~~~Rumsfeld’s rant was but the shrillest of several recent statements by members of the federal regime — Cheney, Rice and the great and powerful Bush himself — in defense of the war in Iraq. Which must mean — hold on, let me check my calendar — yep, there’s an election coming.
The War on Terror has, after all, been this gang’s get-out-of-jail-free card for years. High gas prices, a hurricane fiasco, red ink, an overall patina of ineptness overtopped by arrogance, and it’s all forgotten the moment they say 9-11. Small wonder they say it loudly now with midterm elections looming and polls suggesting more Americans are seeing through the president like Saran Wrap.~~~
iowa christine @
74
Exactly. There ain’t going to be a debate in Congress or a vote or anything. How can it be stopped, then? Can it?
Oilfieldguy @ 61
Bush rejected three alternative policies in his speech. The first was stability; he favors dismantling regimes in the hope it will make things better in the long run. It’s a reckless gamble at best, and probably crazy.
The second was containment. He keeps repeating the mantra that Iran cannot be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. Unfortunately, it is hard to find anyone, Dem or Republican, willing to challenge that mantra or its implications.
Third, Bush explicitly rejected primary reliance on police/investigations strategies for fighting “terror.” This segment of his speech was likely a direct refutation of George Will’s column saying that Kerry was right to say, “this should be an international policing function, not primarily military.” Bush rejected that as a failed policy, even though that’s exactly what the British are doing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09…..r=homepage
So who’s talking to whom? I see Bush’s speech as a debate between the warhawks at the American Enterprise Institute and the old line conservatives like George Will. Glenn Greenwald has a good post today on the influence of AEI on the Bush Admin, and the fact that most of the war hawks in the Administration have been closely linked with AEI.
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot…..html#links
The AEI side of the debate is winning, and they’re represented by Cheney.
The Dem’s strategy should be to call these people warmongering extremists, and claim the weak-minded Bush and ineffectual Condi have been captured by Cheney and his zealots, including Rumsfeld. Johnson vs Goldwater.
Thank you again VG. Knowing what is happening, even if you can’t fix it, is just less frustrating.
**************
“… it is the decisive ideological struggle of the 21st century.” And like all ideological struggles, the guys who bomb the most babies and call it legal win.
Fatwa – meet OLC opinion.
Peterr – it’s not even a military mindset, IMO. It’s a bully’s criminal mindset. He can’t confront the ideological issues, bc then it becomes clear that ideologically – he’s jumped on board with them – torture, kidnap, bombings, rhetoric, appeals to religious fervor, hatemongering, etc. He’s already lost on ideology by being subsumed into their ideology of violence and suppression and secrecy and crime- taking our military and govt there with him.
*********************
Dear Sec of Def – further to your observation that there are thousands more google hits from the name of a soldier involved in the Abu Ghraib scandal than the soldier who got the medal of freedom (?) please note that I have also been googling. You and Republicans say nasty things about Dems wanting to leave Iraq millions of times more than you mention a big hearty thank you to Dems for support with the Afghanistan war. Why is that? The world is just gosh darn confusing isn’t it?
BTW – hasn’t anyone told the terrorists in Pakistan, Spain, Britain and Indonesia that they are supposed to go to Iraq? Maybe offered cab fare (fellow terrorists are likely to give them a good rate)? How can we fight them in Iraq if they are everywhere else? If I put pork under my bed, will I be able to quit checking there each night?
Morally enthused,
Mary
VG – sorry I was out with the dog and picking up some ice cream to eat while watching … a stock car race … true indulgence for a Sat night!
No longer a ‘puter expert and not sure it will work but I’m hoping it does… and now I’ll go check your note
Oilfieldguy @
78
Oh dear. I think y’all are just proving my point…
I’m flattered, though!
Mary4- did you see Siun’s comment about laptop above? http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-275618
I’m pretty sure there are thousands more google hits on the world trade center going down then what cheney was doing with norad at the time
VG – uhoh… maybe it blew up instead!
I find these locked in settings on work machines very irritating … and at our company, they recently decided to get really into branding and all our desktop pictures vanished in favor of a company logo! argh!
Republicans are running the warriors of America through their war profit machine to finance their luxurious lifestyles and future fear and smear campaigns.
Siun- http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-275552
Eli @ 84
If that makes Eli our first elf president I’ll vote for him.
I don’t think I can boil it down anymore than that.
If that makes Eli our first elf president I’ll vote for him.
Now I’m *really* confused…
Anne 26 said (in the middle of a thoughtful post):
Afghanistan is difficult to govern – the various groups are accustomed to being more or less independent. And further, history has shown that the country resists the efforts of outside powers to impose their will.
Given that, I believe any plan beyond a removal of the Al Qaeda bases and get out is a recipe for a long and ultimately unsuccessful engagement. We have to get used to the idea that much of what happens in these countries is up to the people that live there.
iowa christine @
73
The administration already has.
Since Elves are immortal, he shouldn’t be held to mere mortal two-term limits.
Certainly some of this is driven by polls and failed domestic policies and the need to gin something up to try and salvage the Nov. elections for the Repugs.
But, how much of this is Bush’s own sense of his “legacy?” What I sense in this is urgency–that there’s not much time left for him to complete this agenda of reforming the Middle East. Now, others (read: Cheney) have entirely different motives for wanting to see this same agenda completed, but Bush’s inadequacies may simply be the open door through which they can influence his decisions.
Virtually everyone who’s looked at the region’s politics with an open mind knows that Bush’s talk about the terrorism being expressed today as a “single movement” is horseshit. And yet, that’s exactly what appeals to followers of authoritarians, and it appeals to Bush’s black and white sense of a faceless, monolithic enemy.
That can’t be originating from Bush. It has to be coming from elsewhere. This has got to be Cheney whispering in his ear, urging him on. Though I’ve had my doubts in the past about him faking simplicity, after his pathetic “I read three Shakespeares” remark to Brian Williams the other day, I’m finally convinced that he’s got the intellectual acumen of a parsnip. No one in a position of power intentionally makes themselves appear that stupid.
What we have here, I greatly fear, is a band of madmen guiding a fool. That is a prescription for much harm.
This has probably been said, but I thought the Olbermann speech was terrible. I don’t disagree with the content; in fact, I thought he was bang-on in his criticism of the administration.
But ‘impugn’? ‘transient’? ‘omniscience’? Hell, I’m a postgrad in the humanities and even I was put off by all the fancy-schmancy verbiage.
Your average TV viewer doesn’t care about all that high-falutin’ crap; she doesn’t care how beautiful the words look on the page. She wants to understand what you’re talking about. If she thinks your language is excluding her, her eyes will glaze over and she’ll be reaching for the remote.
Good job, Keith, you just reinforced the GOP frame about anti-war critics being elitist.
Hemingway, not Nabokov!
OFG: good article. And the gambler analogy made me smile.
1. All the pieces are coming together for airstrikes…but I think it’ll be AFTER November. Others disagree…I can’t say that the contrary opinion is “loony”. We’ll have to see. The pieces:
A. all the bloviating…fascism, appeasement, Iran equals Hitler, blah blah blah. It’s the PR campaign.
B. UN/Bolton: Bolton is set to move on sanctions against Iran. Either some sort of sanctions are handed down; in which case Iran violates the sanctions and thus we have reason to strike….OR….no sanctions handed down, in which case Bush says we must go it alone to save our democracy, the UN is mamby-pamby, etc. For the WH, this is classic win-win.
C. Lebanon: Israel, and the neocons bloviated greatly about the Iran connection. Lebanon is still a bubbling brew. Peacekeepers are coming in…but violations of the cease fire will occur. USA will blame it all on Iran….game on.
2. On a related note, someone (wilson?) posted a blurb from a NYT article recently. Burued in there was a little nugget for me…a bad nugget. The story reported that Al Sadr’s militias are starting to provide social services for their people in and around Baghdad and to the south. This is shades of Hizbollah. What this means is that the Bush/Cheney surrogate gov’t is breaking down. The people are turning to the militias for food, water, medicine, etc. If the trend continues, then for all intents and purposes the central gov’t shall collapse. We all see the ramifications.
Sorry for the glum news!
Ghostman
We are dealing with an outlaw regime. The rules of the AUMF or this or that or the other thing is subject to a crayon wielding, constitution editing, signing statement defacto dictator.
Must.
Change.
Congress.
Keep it simple …
I’m a fan of straightforward language but I think you underestimate Keith’s viewers. He knew precisely who his audience was and he nailed it. Keith was not putting forward a campaign slogan, he was instead calling out the powers that be and his language and delivery was wonderful.
The graphic for this story doesn’t show a double down. It shows aces being split, which is correct play when you get a pair of aces against most dealer up cards.
Steve @
79
cleter @
81
Having grown up in the military (dad was USAF for 22 yrs – until shortly after my 18th birthday – they purposely stayed in until I graduated from High School), I can honestly say that there are enough brass high enough that will obey the chain of command regardless of how stupid the order is. Unfortunately, I think my cousin is one of them. He’s now a Lt.Cmdr in the USAF and up till a year or two ago was a back seater on a fighter jet. He and his pilot flew ’show of force’ over Korea when we rolled into Afghanistan, was shot at while flying over Iraq (before 2003), and told me, personally, he would have loved to have flown over Afghanistan. At my 20 yr HS reunion in 2003, there were several people missing from the class as they were in Iraq. One classmate was a Capt in the USAF and was in Aviano, Italy when the US went into Afghanistan. He stated that just about the entire base showed up at the runway and saluted the planes on takeoff.
So… yes, someone in the military will obey the order solely because it comes from the Commander in Chief, regardless of the stupidity of it. There are also just enough ‘far right wingers’ that think this is a good idea and are probably egging Bush on.
montag @
97
Oh verily well spoke.
A fourth very dangerous thing Bush did in his speech was to make it infinitely more difficult for Israel to negotiate agreements with its principal adversaries. Bush directly linked Hezbollah and al Qaeda, and in the past he’s linked Hamas, then linked them all to Iran and Syria. Instead of being neighbors with disputed/occupied borders, or individual resistance movements with little interest or impact beyond their immediate lands, the groups surrounding Israel are instead all terrorists, and we don’t negotiate with terrorists. And it’s okay to invade countries that harbor terrorists, so Israeli invasions of Gaza, West Bank and Lebanon are all necessary, not just permissible, under the Bush doctrine.
This is tremendously destabilizing for that region, and means there is no reasonable check on the zealots anywhere, because anyone can touch off a reaction that can engulf the whole region. And there’s no way for us to pick off any group, such as Hamas, and make progress, because we can’t talk to them any more than we can talk to Osama bin Laden.
This policy is madness. “The Madness of King George.”
And in that Brian Williams interview, W’s pathetic rationale – I want to lower expectations – was such a lame dog-ate-my-homework frat boy assinine thing to say. My expectations couldn’t be any lower.
Meanwhile on a related matter–
KARL ROVE’S STEPFATHER WAS A BIG OL’ GAY HOMOSEXUAL!!!!
orangejumpsuit @ 92
I’d vote for Eli, too.
Twisted Martini @
68
And get the house to stop taking his markers.
Sweet post, OFG!
BarbaraB – On Plame – the “older-new” questions are still interesting, too. The Duberstein thing just caught my eye – he was everywhere after the Libby.
Today I saw your post from yesterday about what if Armitage knew about the WHIG/OVP strategy? That makes a lot of sense to me. Helps explain not only why he was surprised that Novak was pointing at him (gunslinger, not) but also why everyone was so reluctant for him to come forward immediately.
Someone quoted the NYPost as having an op ed that says,
Interestingly, however, the NYT piece obliquely references the “dog that didn’t bark in the night” aspect as being more correct.
? Not even questions like –“is there something we should know” or “do we need to alter security procedures and clearances or briefings”or “are we close to finding out who the leakers are, the President is being asked everyplace he goes” or “is there anything you think I should pass on to the President – anything it would be prudent for us to know?”
And no one seemed to want Armitage in the public eye over this.
So, why keep it all under wraps? If people thought Armitage might have an inkling of what WHIG was up to, it makes it easier to understand why know one wanted Armitage out and talking. He would have faced all kinds of questions and pressure to disclose what he knew about anyone else who might have talked to Novak.
Mary4- did you see Siun’s laptop comment?
Bumpersticker I saw today.
Lick Bush
Hell yeah!
Evening Ladies, gents, just back at the computer and catching up. Lots of to see!
Congratulations, Siun and FDL. Whooee, a press secretary, like rock stars!
OFG, great post, so nice to see you on the front page. I think that the image of W as a gambler is useful. He’s obviously no ‘real’ gambler, he doesn’t know when to fold’em. He’s a compulsive. I’ve known a few, they always think that they will win — they have a system, or it’s their turn, or luck is with them. And when they lose there is always some excuse, and that game somehow slides out of their stats. And they think that next time will be the big win.
Siun: yes, I thought that might have been the case. I was hoping, though, that his comments might have had reverberations outside of his fans. Political addicts like us already know where we stand on this and hardly need to be exercised even more. But with the viral nature of the Internet, his comments might have had the potential to filter into the mainstream discourse and reach people who work two jobs and have kids and just don’t care about politics they way we do.
But to do that, it’s got to speak the demotic.
scarecrow @ 105
Unfortunately, the government of Israel has had no desire to negotiate with its adversaries. Recent history has shown that to be true. The right wing in that country and the right wing here are peas from the same pod.
Oh Mary- did you miss Ambassador Joe Wilson here earlier? Alas if you did. I surely hope he is reading your Plame comment!
Speaking of Rove, the NYT has an article on his influence. This section has to do with focus on particular races:
“They have determined that control of Congress is likely to be settled in as few as six states and have decided to focus most of the party’s resources there, said Republican officials who did not want to be identified discussing internal deliberations. Those states will likely include Connecticut, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Washington, though officials said the battle lines could shift in coming weeks.
The White House is largely turning away from the 36 governors’ races, although Mr. Rove and Mr. Bush will continue to help Republican candidates for governor raise money, party officials said. The decision has broad significance because building a foundation of Republican governors had been a main part of Mr. Rove’s goal of creating a long-lasting Republican majority.
The Republican National Committee expects to spend over $60 million, which would be a record, for the midterm elections. Officials say half of that would pay for get-out-the-vote operations in the targeted states.
In states where Mr. Bush’s presence could be problematic, like Pennsylvania and Connecticut, the turnout operations give Mr. Rove a way to provide below-the-radar help.”
$60 million to get people to vote for madmen and against their own interests. A record.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09…..r=homepage
Ghostman @ 99
Well, if Al Sadr’s militia stands up, can we stand down?
Keep it simple, Keith @ 98
‘transient’ was spot on. Thank gawd for term limits. Hopefully our next president is smarter than bin Laden, but for now, not so much.
hotflash, 118: now that’s funny.
Montag and scarecrow each commented about Israel….I think both are right on target. Israel has no desire today for peaceful ideas, and Bush paints a world where they couldn’t have peaceful ideas for tomorrow either.
Ghostman
Eli for President still pales next to Siun for Press Secretary though. *g*
Siun – thank you. I am very non-tech VERY non-tech. So, let me ask is “Lan” Local Intranet? I don’t have a separate Lan Settings that I can find, but under options for all my privacy,security, etc. there is a web, a local intranet, a restricted site, etc.
So I can’t figure out if I have proxy settings (does that sound as dumb as my fingers typing I are telling me?) I have no trouble with the laptop getting online in general or posting anyplace except here or reading here. And I can do the remote log in (which is what I am doing tonight) but for a lot of reasons, including lag time as I type,it is a pain.
But I don’t want to keep hijacking the thread if it’s beyond my skill set to fix this – I’ve been worse things than spam. *g*
Keep it simple, Keith @ 114
Simple Keith,
I view that speach as one for the ages, truly historic, and breathtaking in it’s directness. Lincolns Gettysburgh address was not well received upon delivery. But that was before the innernets. Corporate Media gets hammered mercilessly for pandering to the lowest in us, tittilation and intrigue with the latest missing white girl and mob coverage of the daily flavor.
When one raises above the fray to cynically speak to the government of the people, our employees, without a hint of stenography in the analysis, it is remarkable as it is rare. Rise the viewers up and do not talk to the lowest among them. Encourage thought and debate. Keith Olbermann delivered in spades. Rumsfeld did not.
Dana-
$60 million to get people to vote for madmen and against their own interests. A record.
Depends on which “their” you are talking about. Clearly there is a lot more money available to throw around- coming from those who are already in the upper 1% tax bracket- and they have a self-serving agenda. And, it’s not for the benefit of the people.
Of course, I knew what you meant.
Good one from Robert Parry.
Nice timeline of all the Plame activities, and a great title: “How Obtuse is the U.S. Press?”
Oilfieldguy:
You know, the day they stuffed the Iraqi officer (one of the “deck of cards” guys who turned himself over to the U.S.) into a sleeping bag and stomped him to death, most likely after days of torture, it was clear that we are lawless in this joke of a “war”.
You nailed it… outlaws. Disgusting.
Bush blurting out the truth – “The key for me is to keep expectations low.” shows how utterly corrupt the neo-conservative movement is.
Did you guys see the link on al-Sistani basically giving up restraining his followers from participating in sectarian violence? Link here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new…..wirq03.xml
That is the most significant (and disheartening) news of the day. Of course, the MSM is ignoring it because they have another sensationalistic Al Queda tape (btw – why aren’t those guys dead?). If this report is true, the game is completely over in Iraq. Al-Sistani will give over his political influence to Al-Sadr. The result will be a noxious brew -a combination of of the worst of the sectarion strife ala Lebanon and the rise of a fundamentalist nation-state ala Iran. Heck of a job, Bushie.
Get our guys out of there. Now.
Dover Bitch @ 97
My opinion, FWIW, is that Bush does not think he has to rely on the Iraq resolution, although he may use it as a fig leaf. I would bet good money that he has an OLC opinion stashed away somewhere that says the War Powers Act is unconstitutional because Congress does not have the power to limit the President in initiating armed conflict. He thinks all Congress can do is 1) refuse to pay the bills and/or 2) impeach and remove him. If he bombs Iran, he’s not going to ask permission. It will be double down first and then double dare Congress to do anything about it after the fact.
Mary4- don’t apologize. If you can figure out the problem with the help of FDL, believe me, the mods would thank you. This is one that I really would like to solve- as I’m sure you would too. FWIW- LAN = local area network. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_area_network
Keep it simple, Keith – I really disagree. I’m sick to death of the dumbing down thing. This country needs articulate inspiration. Passionate expression of deeper thought. We desperately need that. And we need a complete end to the frat boy 3 shakespeares decidering and understandering low expectations smoke – it is killing us.
Of course if we do strike Iran they immediately have 140,000 of our hostages right there.
Prairie Sunshine @71 – those references make me think of how the argumnets to do the wrong thing never really chnage: It is a “unique” war unlike any other, there are monsters within our own comunity etc.
Losing argument made by gov in a civil war case. Thingsdon’t change much.
Ghostman @ 100
worse, al-Sistani is throwing in the towel… via the Left Coaster
BarbaraB @
127
You’re probably right on this…..
BarbaraB @ 127
Alberto Gonzales was asked if a soldier who is trained by the Army field manual that prevents torture, is ordered by the President to torture a prisoner, what should he do?
Abu G. could not answer that question.
VG,
Yes, as you know, I did not mean the 1% who have a self-serving agenda. I meant the average middle-class or lower republican voter who are blinded by the smoke from flag-burning and are praying for the blastocyst Americans and who believe they too can be rich one day!
oh, and 9/11, 9/11, 9/11. Oh, and the terrorists we will fight here if we don’t stay the course in Iraq! You know, the values people, the frightened people, the one who want to focus on MY family instead of their own damn family.
Ghostman @ 120
A good point, Gman. This bunch are the folks that keep on giving–what happens now can compromise future events for some time to come. What might be possible now with considerable difficulty may have been made impossible for years.
Right now, much of the Arab street views this administration–and the U.S. generally–as having egged on Israel to greater destruction in Lebanon, and that view may persist well after the Bushies are gone. *sigh*
Hotflash @119 – I think ccmask refers to it as “Wave” based foreign policy.
Night all
and why didn’t I use preview and put “s” on the nouns with plural verbs?
This thread is making me crazy with anger at the whole horror of what we have to bear from this admin.
OFG, the 140K – thats the trap. Jr. plays poker and the others are playing chess. al-Sistani giving up is ominous. The Pentagon report. Its timing is important. If Iraq falls into full out civil war the 140K are in terrible danger.
Watch for a pull back to those 4 bases.
Dana, yes, and “who believe they too can be rich one day!” is classic. Sadly true, aint’ it? I was also meaning that it is mostly the 1% who are providing the $$ to pull the wool over the sheeples’ eyes. Obvious, too, I’m sure.
Adding support to meta’s post. I’m sick of stuff being dumbed down too. Hey, don’t read … don’t learn … don’t use a fancy word a 7th grader wouldn’t know. Pardon me, but f**k that. I want a smart President. I want smart leaders. I even want learned and snarky commentary. Neo-cons are very fond of tsk-tsking to elements of the hip-hop community about dissing the value of higher education, when they do the same damn thing themselves.
Coastie….nope, hadn’t heard that. I think a annburns earlier cited the same thing. News to me. And bad news. Mr. “S” is the big time religious leader. If he’s saying screw it…..there’s no reason for his followers to stay peaceful. Very bad development.
Ghostman
VG, yes, of course the 1%, or much of it, anyway, spends their money to fuel this insanity and bank the profits on the poor and dead.
VG and Siun, on the laptop thing:
This sounds like what’s happening to me, although neither computer is a laptop. The one at work, from which no post appears (although they get sent; do they end up in the spam trap?) is on company intranet so it has a fixed IP address and a proxy address which is different. Same for the one at home (IP address for a friend’s housenet, to which it’s occasionally taken and connected), although at least one setting must be different, because posts only seem to end up in moderation.
[grit teeth] Aren’t computer wonderful [/grit teeth]
And I was thinking about the stuff from last night, and the question about organizing the information: How about a web site, with pages for each person/PAC/corp, linked by who gave what to which? It could allow for timelining also. The basics are easy enough: I created some basic pages, cannibalized some of the code from the sites my favorite genealogy program creates. (It’s the time involved that scares me. Where do you go to get another twelve hours in the day?)
Oilfieldguy @
130
whoa.
Dana- crazy with anger- well, I’ve been that way for a good long time. I’m sure you’ve been the same. To be having to deal with with this is soul-destroying for any thoughtful person. I assume that I am older than you are- I graduated college in 1969- I am of the “VietNam” generation, and thought at the time that the nation had reached its low point. Alas, I was so sadly wrong.
ya’ know? if push comes to shove, who can stop Bush if he decides to attack Iran without authorization? he’s got his good buddies there in the Air Force… so even if the Navy and Army say no… who could stop him if he gave the order to the AF?
Hmmm. They filed this post under Iran, Iraq and War on Terror. I thought this was a GOTV post. Save the world, burn the Bush. (/snark)
Osama’s to do list….
[X] Get Bush to invade Iraq
[X] Make this all about Islam. World War 3
[X] Replace broken air conditioner in cave
There’s a very interesting article in the May 2002 Economist about lowering resistance. Professor Eric Knowles of the University of Arkansas did a study about how to get people to go along with things they wouldn’t normally. An enlightening read.
Dana @ 142
“spends their money to fuel this insanity and bank the profits on the poor and dead.” Amen sister. Another profound and pithy statement.
VG, you’re only a teensy bit older than I am. My husband’s draft # was 7. He was in the ASA after he enlisted to hedge his bets. I was angry then, but not like now.
meta @ 144
It’ll be a colossal Dunkirk, a historic military debacle.
OldCoastie @ 145
Given the number of targets described elsewhere (Hersh’s articles, for example), the Navy would have to help–not just with carrier-based aircraft, but with cruise missiles, as well.
The Air Force is hot to trot on bombing Iran, but I think the biggest resistance is coming from the Army and Marines–they don’t want to be told to drag their remaining forces into Iran to fight it out on the ground. They know they’d be outnumbered.
So, Navy would probably go along–until they lose a carrier or two to Sunburns.
There aren’t going to be any mutinies at the top of the Pentagon, but there aren’t going to be any smiles and grins, either.
The key to what’s going on right now–as always–is who’s retiring. If there’s a big jump in 2- and 3-star brass retirements among Army and Marines, that’s a strong clue about the surety of Bush attacking Iran and what the plans are.
Dana- yeah- and the night they drew lottery numbers for the draft. Looking back, even with all of the bad news, I know I was more resilient back then. Also, living in the South 20 years has been a tough go for this particular CA native.
annburns @
126
Thanks for the link, annburns. Juan Cole has been blogging off and on for the last few weeks that Ayatollah al-Sistani was trying to get hints of this message out. Their collective efforts have of course fallen on deaf ears.
I’m quite afraid for the troops if they are not moved out soon. The map is not encouraging.
montag, maybe before that happens, Poppy’s crew with Baker at the head and the bipartisan group behind him will have a successful intervention with W., convincing him that it’s time to make a change.
cleter @ 151
Don’t worry, Ronald Dumsfeld is all over it.
On Topic:
I am so into fighting back this administrations shameless hustling via ABC of the WOGT. Great new find via Info clearinghouse. I’ve done a post on it at my site but here’s the link:
http://www.informationclearing…..eo1037.htm
montag @ 152
Montag- can you explain this in more detail? I admit to ignorance in interpreting your comment- I can read it two ways.
VG, I know just what you mean about watching the lottery numbers come up! Also, I’ve spent 22 years in the south. Wisconsin will always be home to me, and not just because of the German bakery and dairies.
Final: ND 14 Georgia Tech 10
Irish defense plays well. Offense, not so much.
I get limited news here, but my husband was telling me that the British have abandoned a base in southern Iraq…”turned” it over to the Iraqi army with only a 24 hour notice, except the militias rushed in and looted the place, claiming that they had forced the British to retreat. This was around Aug 25. Was there comment here and did I just miss it?
cleter @ 151
James Fallows discussed this very point in his article for Atlantic Monthly, “Will Iran Be Next”, in December 2004. He dissected war games conducted simulating different scenarios for attacking Iran and they all end in disaster. Having 140,000 troops next door in Iraq gives the Iranians lots of leverage. http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200412/fallows
Also, living in the South 20 years has been a tough go for this particular CA native.
VG, my parents moved from CA to west TX after my father retired. My mother said that the locals figure anyone who lives there is a Texan, but she never could see herself that way. She only lived there for sixteen years, then moved back to CA.
Some of the people were wonderful, and some we wondered if they’d ever figure out that the world wasn’t the way they thought it had been when they were kids.
coz @147- lol
CNN presents is on now featuring a convo with clinton about poverty world-wide. Depressing really, how much more we could do if the war wasn’t sucking up our money.
When it became clear that Bushboy would invade Iraq without enough troops my heart sank. I knew that all of those service people were in great jeopardy. If I know this then Bushboy knows this. What does he gain by exposing these people to great harm? Also, the latest video from the al qaeda cave advising the soldiers to convert to Islam is pretty scary. There are not enough American soldiers over there to protect themselves. The perfect storm.
Some resistance to attacking Iran:
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/…..s-gung-ho/
NZ Expat- Good to see you. Was wondering about you this week. Yes, there were some comments on that story perhaps a couple of days ago.
Going to read late nite..
I am Notre Dame ‘68, (please excuse my football note) and ROTC. Getting rid of the draft is the one thing that makes it possible for the Administration to avoid the riots of my senior year. The campuses are just indifferent. Until they have something at stake, too many young Americans will just watch and play video games.
OFG: you nailed it.
Outstanding analysis.
I started making a list. It is by no means comprehensive, but there is so much to keep up with a list useful. It’s something of a rant, I warn you. Whatever I’ve left out that you feel is important, please feel free to add. I want to print this list and tack it up somewhere besides my bulletin board.
What have the Neo-Con Republicans done?:
They grabbed 9/11 and ran with it. They’ve used what occurred on 9/11 as an excuse for everything else that followed (paging high-powered public relations firms).
They made up a war and embroiled us in it, while trying to embroil the rest of the world as well.
They abandoned New Orleans and got away with it for over a year now.
They’ve “lost” billions of dollars overseas somewhere and they had a Federal judge say, “what happens in Iraq stays in Iraq”, closing another door to the pursuit of civil accountability thru the courts.
They are secretive, and they thrive in chaos. Look at all their buds. They’re making a killing in no-bid contracts with no quality control. In other words, they are looting the American Treasury, and their rubber stamp Republican majority is standing in the way of an accounting.
They’ve managed to pack civil service, the courts, and the military with their yes men and women. They’ve tied the hands of the GAO and other oversight agencies. They’ve gutted the military’s officer’s corps and most Americans don’t even know it. A condition of officers’ service is that they don’t talk about what their lawful government tells them not to talk about. Their only option, if they don’t like what’s going on and can’t convince their superiors that they are making mistakes that will hurt the country, is to resign.
They have put medical care for our seniors out to pasture. What’s another old man or woman? Used up and discarded, that’s what. The same with the American people. We’re just in the way now.
They are well on the road to destroying education in this country (an ignorant population is easier to control, dontcha know).
They keep trying to take away Social Security, basically stealing the money that people and companies have paid to the government for years (plus interest). I guess they have more friends to reward for going along. That gets expensive, and after a while people begin to notice that their money is going away and they’re not getting anything in return.
They keep trying to make people sit down and shut up and smile while they destroy us.
Fuck that.
That old piece of paper up there is more than it seems. That happens to be our social contract and I’m not willing to let thugs rewrite it. Yes. I’ve had enough.
Valley Girl @ 159
I hesitate to answer for Montaq, but I believe Sy Hersh said much the same thing. A lot of senior military would resign rather than obey an order to invade Iran. It would be nice if they made what accountants and lawyers call a “noisy withdrawal,” but I don’t think we can count on it.
NZExpat, I don’t know whether there was a post, but I think there were links in comments. I don’t know that the British withdrawal was precipitous, but the Iraqi army units that were supposed to fill the vacuum didn’t.
Dana- ah- thanks. Didn’t know if you were a born Southerner or not. Now I do. Tenure is a double-edged sword, I sometimes feel. The tenure thing certainly does make working life *different* from that of most folks, no?
BarbaraB- I was hoping that this was what montag meant. On the other hand, I thought that might mean that it would open up opportunities for those who were pro-Bushco.
Valley Girl @ 173
In what way? I have heard that term and just assumed that it meant security in your position. Is that correct?
new thread
NZ Expat @
163
Here’s the disturbing news:
Goats and Hussars: A British Harbinger of American Defeat
It does seem that the same lack of foresight is being applied to Iran as was to Iraq. If Bush attacks Iran while we are still in Iraq, we will lose our army. The army’s resupply route runs for 400 miles through Shia territory and it is impossible to fully resupply by air. Pat Lang called it a shooting gallery. Close that off and our position there becomes untenable. Then there is the fact that we cannot get the army’s equipment out by air. We could get our people out but by then it wouldn’t be an army. If we tried a fighting withdrawal, one of the first things Iran would do is close the strait of Hormuz. This would trap any naval forces in the gulf where they could keep hitting at it until they get lucky. They do have the tech to sink an aircraft carrier if they get enough tries and the gulf isn’t large enough to pull out of range. Damn all armchair generals to hell.
Yep, I’m sort of here…teaching more than I’d expected, and then, with the time difference, I often get to a thread on the late side. I try not to be addicted to American politics and to be here, in NZ, now, but I’m still American and am horrified at what my country has become. The husband, a Naval Academy grad and true believer in the best of America, is in disbelief also.
The All Blacks played a bloody game against South Africa earlier today and lost by a point. Kiwis love their rugby rough and bloody and violent. And they love their peaceful image abroad, their sense that the NZ passport will protect them, as they believe it protected Olaf Wiig in the recent kidnapping. There is a tough, pragmatic tone to life here and an unwillingness to be anybody’s fool. I’d like to bottle that tonic and dump it into the water supply back home. (What I’d like to do is to send Cheney, Rumsfield, Bush, et. al. onto the rugby field against Richie McCaw and the other All Blacks. Or the Springboks…I think they play dirtier and nastier).
LindyH: OH yeah!
You hit it good!
I’ve had enough, and I refuse to vote for these clowns, or for the ones who think that staying in Iraq is the only, or the best, thing to do, or for the ones who think that we have to support him because he’s the Preznit.
Arbusto, chinga su madre (and have a nice day).
masaccio @ 167
You are so right. I am a prof. at a U. So different now from then. In many ways, I would hate to see a return of the draft. But, also, I was struck by a comment by my college best friend- something to the effect that a return of the draft would force Americans to be more aware of, and feel a greater stake in US foreign policy.
NZ Expat … MFI has had some stuff on the Brits issue in Iraq … check at the link in my login name. He also had some info a while back – actually some rather interesting dialogue – about the less than exemplary behavior of the US Navy in earlier ME event … seems they are known to mil outside the US for hiding behind other folks ships. Fisk discusses this as well in The Great War for Civilization which, once again, I encourage everyone to read as essential background to everything happening now in the ME.
and I’m over at Late Nite – come join us!
Valley Girl @ 173
Actually, it would do both. And on that cheerful note, it’s bedtime. G’night, y’all.
OFG- yes, it does mean security in your position. But, the dynamics of the tenure process, and where one is in the academic ladder, means that ones mobility- ability to move to another university- is severely limited. New hires are either new green assistant professors, or full professors of outstanding visibility, who are either recruited because their “brand name” will greatly enhance the reputation of the university, and/or because they are willing and able to become part of the administrative structure- as Dept. chairs recruited for ailing departments, as Deans who are no longer really “academics” but administrators… etc.
Dana @ 155
That “bipartisan” commission is one of the biggest bunch of foreign policy hawks I’ve seen. Beyond that, I don’t think the Baker/Poppy/Scowcroft bunch pull much weight with Junior (at least I don’t think so after the “higher father” remark of his).
Baker’s interest in this is in not seeing the shit in Iraq spread to Saudi Arabia. A revolution in SA and Kuwait would put a bad crimp in his revenue stream.
Let’s not forget who started war in Iraq–Poppy, Baker, Scowcroft and Cheney. They wanted regime change there just as badly as did Junior and Cheney with this current debacle; they just didn’t want it to be obvious that that was the plan.
What the Bakerbots are terrified about is that Junior is so friggin’ blatant about it all–he’s trying to turn this into a full-fledged religious war and that unnerves them, if only because it has the potential to become a situation they won’t be able to pull back into the ring, like a boxing brawl that spreads to the crowd.
Cheers.
LindyH @ 171
They are Conservatives Without Conscience. Dean describes them to a “T” – as well as how they get away with all of the above.
Two observations he makes near the end of the book I found especially sobering.
1) Authoritarianism and secrecy breed incompentence; the two feed on each other – it’s a vicious cycle
2) Those of us who are not authoritarian followers and see what is happening and fear for our democracy must actively participate in stopping what is happening
In Dean’s words – “Take it [Democracy] for granted and the authoritarians, who have already taken control, will take American democracy where no freedom-loving person would want it to go. But time has run out, and the next two or three national election cycles will define America in the twenty-first century, for better or worse.”
We already know how important the 2006 election is – and we have two months left to do everything we can to take the House and/or the Senate away from these jerks.
VG – all of PJ Evans comments are popping up in mod, I’m freeing them up as I see them … just fyi
OFG, yes, tenure means “security of position.” But to get a tenure-track position, most grads leave their home states. T-T jobs are not all that plentiful, certainly not in the humanities. My own profs used to tell me that all they had to do was point on a map and go there.
VG–LOL, a southern born woman, I’m not. I do have many good friends here, though.
montag @
97
Bush thinks everyone is jealous because the voices only talk to him
NZ Expat- Ah- I lived in Britain for 10 years with a Welshman who was a Rugby fanatic. I remember watching the All Blacks back then… and they are famous and infamous. Kerry Packer? Does that ring a bell? Or do I have the wrong country or the wrong name?
drouse @
179
What I’m talking about. It has been obvious literally for years that it might come to this, given the topography of Iraq and the fact that the US military are there as occupiers, and so would be subject to harassment all the way out. Even if Turkey were available as a second exit, the lines to get there are very long, as they are to get to Kuwait/Saudi Arabia (shudder)/Basra (SHUDDER). And, do we really have a good grasp on the surface-air capability of the insurgents? I think the best we could hope for if it came to a rout is that we really sell them on the fact that we’re leaving. Maybe then they’d just let us go.
Depressing, truly depressing. (And I completely share the skepticism about Baker’s so-called bipartisan committee. The damage they’re meant to control has a purely coincidental relationship to the national interest.)
Siun @ 184
Siun- thanks for the info. At least they are popping up in mod, instead of being trashed into spam. I think that the pj part is really the problem re: the nonsense letter strings in real spam.
BarbaraB @ 171
Yup, that’s exactly it. It’s a way of saying, “I think you’re an idiot, so I’m not working for you any more.”
Cheers.
montag, Well, thanks for that icky little story! An intervention was my hope. Now what? I went to the thinkprogress link meta posted. Terrifying and the comments are even more so.
Again, cleter – @6:53 – about deterrence – great talking points.
This is how it should play out. On September, 22 (new moon = very dark night) the president will suddenly interrupt American Idol with this breathless news: My fellow Amercans tonight a combined force of American and British Air forces have bombed known “Nuqular” weapons sites in Iran. May God have mercy on our souls……
This is a good test – I’m going to keep posting it. Anyone who signs up for the military should know this.
http://www.rethinkingschools.o…..pgame.html
Dana @ 192
Yup, I saw that a while ago. Sorry to be pessimistic, but anticipating the worst sometimes is the more prudent course. Right now, I’m of the opinion that the Bushies are capable of anything, and that all the Baker boys have in mind is not peace, but a return to a status quo that is advantageous to the power elite of the country.
Unfortunately, the situation has already likely progressed beyond the point where even that latter aim is feasible. As well, after November, Bush technically has no political responsibilities to anyone (can you imagine him, with his penchant for holding grudges, willingly campaigning for McCain after the 2000 primary season?). My guess is that he’s going to feel even less restrained by appearances.
One has to pragmatic–the very latest polls are at their highest level of war disapproval ever, and the Bushies are all out in the hustings telling the American people, in essence, that they’re stupid and have been propagandized by the terrorists. What exactly does that say about their grip on reality, or about how likely they are to listen to advice to tone it down? *sigh*
The last few comments I have seen from the bushies have got me stone scared.I have done emergecy management for money.Take this as you will.This is the time for all smart boys and girls…{’specially those with kids} to start getting serious about haveing 6-12 months of chow,emergency plans,and some”network” solutions t lifestyle changes.If these effing maniacs start something with Iran,we will get to spend our retirements in a well known movie…”the postman”,except I dont see any heroes coming in my lifetime….
OFG: you have really, really nailed it with this posting…this admin – namely Bush and Cheney – will never stop stirring up war trouble. A very gifted astrologer compared Bush and Cheney’s charts and found some scary similarities…she called them wandering warriors, not necessarily getting their own hands dirty, but constantly restless for the next squirmish and that they would lead us from one war to another and it would not end til they were out of office. When I read that two years ago I was chilled to the bone and it is all proving true. If we do not remove these two men from office, one way or another, the next two years will be some of the ugliest times our world has ever seen and all the blame will be laid at the US doorstep. And we will deserve this blame because we watched this unfold and didn’t throw these bums out. There has to be a way.
Bush and friends are using the Hollywood approach to things: If it worked once so well, it’s got to work again!
Hollywood still hasn’t learned that the sequel generally won’t work on the people like the original did. Yet, they keep trotting them out in the hopes that they’ll hook people in to try to relive the glory of the original.
Bush and friends are desperately clinging to the hope that their sequel will work, even though focus groups are clearly showing it won’t. In November, we’ll be going to the theaters to watch a different flick.
Anne at 6:32pm #26
Wow, you really summed it up! Especially, “It would be like me setting my scale back 10 pounds to convince myself I’ve lost weight.” Maybe they all really believe they’re back in the Reagan days where they started this train wreck; they’re certainly using recycled Reganomics, Star Wars and Mutually Assured Destruction policies to name a few. Deja Vu all over again. SIGH!