Is there anyone on the planet sexier than Shirley Manson? I don't think so.
Do you guys do this? Okay, we've all heard that crap about Ann Coulter being a man and everybody thinks transgender issues are, like, such a laff riot, man! But I've known a couple of transgendered people and the Coultergeist is definitely not one of them. I hate to make sweeping generalizations, especially about such a wildly misunderstood population, but there are two things that all the transgendered people (post-op, pre-op, and non-operative) I have known have in common.
1. They are incredibly courageous.
2. They are deeply empathetic.
I think No. 1 is true as a matter of course. If a transgendered person has made you aware of who they are, they have already demonstrated a kind of fierce courage. It takes a lot of nerve in our neurotic, sex-phobic/sex-obsessed, gender-rigid culture to even admit to yourself that you are different from others, let alone anybody else. So, TG people by nature have to be brave. Otherwise you would never know they were any different than you or me or the million other people you brush shoulders with in life's elevators and dentist's offices.
And empathic because they understand that no one can take anything about themselves for granted. Most of us are lucky enough to be mentally matched, more or less, to the bodies we arrived on earth in. Imagine if that wasn't the case, and your body felt like somebody else's Christmas present that you opened by accident but got stuck with anyway. Your very body. Your soul's house in the world and it's not the right sex? Just imagine how you would see the world if that was you.
TG people know what it means to feel betrayed by god and your body and everything. I've never known them to look down their noses at anybody other than the ignorant, the thoughtless, and the cruel. (And those are the right peope to look down on, don't you think?)
Quod erat demonstrandum, Ann Coulter couldn't possibly be a TG because she's:
1. A coward.
2. Slightly less empathetic than a box of tacks.
It was a treat watching Kirsten Power bring the pain to Ann on that C&L clip, though, wasn't it?
But that's not why we're here. The whole reason I brought this up is to say that at some point it occured to me that if I'd been born a female (and not a 60ft. carnivorous therapod), I would want to be Shirley Manson. Do you do that? Do you ever look at someone of the opposite gender and think, "Yeah, that's right. That's how it oughtta be done. If I was a man/woman, I'd be like that!"?
Anyone? I just thought I'd put that out there.
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TRex!
OMG! I don’t believe it! 0! Wow! and I’m a newbie, wow! now I can’t remember what I was going to say.
Oh wait, I remember…I agree with you TRex and would add that the TGP’s that I have known and it hasn’t been many have been very gentle people.
good wee scottish girl is she.
Absolutely. Shirley Manson. It’s been a few years but I was a huge fan of Garbage. Saw them opening for Alanis Morrisette once. Manson’s a bitch when she’s pissed (as she was that night at the stagehands), but I like that. I didn’t know they were still around, or is he on her own?
I’m sorry. What was the question again?
Oh yeah. If I’m reborn, I want to be born a lesbian. And look like Shirley Manson. Hell yeah.
yay TReX !!!!
EPU’d from Who Will Be the First To Call For Joe’s Official Expulsion? thread:
Al Gore should do it. Joe owes him big time for the 2000 nomination.
Bill Clinton should do it. He campaigned for Joe in the primary, now it’s time to collect.
Harry Reid should do it. C’mon, give ‘im hell, Harry! He has to uphold party discipline in the Senate, and Joe is way out of line.
Howard Dean should do it. He’s the party boss.
Chris Dodd should do it. Joe is messing up his turf.
John Kerry should do it. Ted Kennedy should do it. Dick Durbin should do it. Evan Bayh should do it. Barack Obama should do it (Joe owes him, too). Barbara Boxer should do it (same reason). What the hell, Joe Biden should do it.
Come on, folks. It’s time to make “Democrat” mean something again. Just do it.
Damn, Trex - good stuff!!
“If a transgendered person has made you aware of who they are, they have already demonstrated a kind of fierce courage. . . . And empathic because they understand that no one can take anything about themselves for granted. “
Amen!
About the only part I’d disagree with, in part, is “TGP’s know what it means to feel betrayed by god and your body and everything.”
There are TGP’s who have retained their faith, and are able to distinguish between what they believe God says, and what other (mostly unthinking, unempatheic, and uncourageous) folks say that God says.
This is treading on quicksand here, but my point is that a couple of TGP’s I know could talk theological rings around many pastors, priests, bishops, rabbis, imams, and popes - and come out smiling with God at the end of the conversation.
Kudos, TRex, for posting this in such a courageous and empathetic manner.
(Haven’t watched the video, what with the dialup and all.)
Astonishing eyes… interesting song… and yes, TRex - I agree - there is no way in hell AC is transgendered… she’d be wired up a lot better if she were…
TRex !
Yeah Trex!
Awww, TRex likes to play Nursie! I knew it! Sorry man, I couldn’t resist hehe.
I saw this rather icky reality show about a year ago, where they showed actual surgeries being done, on some channel I never watch but was just flipping past. The idea of watching surgeries just totally creeps me out, not something I want to be watching hehe. The episode I caught featured the sex reassignment surgery, though, and it suckered me into watching. The part I saw involved them making the neck and face less “manly” looking, by literally peeling the face back and shaving away some bone from the cheeks and adam’s apple. The end result was a much more feminine looking gal.
What a fine post.
Darn - too bad Shirley’s straight.
medaka! You been vacated on us, er whut?
Well, I just went and checked out Kirsten Powers blog. I love what she did to Coulter last night, but I’m just a tad dismayed by her blog.
http://www.powers-point.com/
Kurt, ya better duck. What’samatter with a man being a nurse?
last December the Indianapolis City Council finally passed a LGBT non-discrimination law after much battling. The T part was vigorously supported — opponents to the ordnance did not object much to that part either.
I know, lisadawn — just doesn’t seem fair.
TRex and Bartcop, both fixated on Shirley. Still as fixations go, its a great one.
TRex, I have never heard of Shirley Manson (once again revealing my appalling lack of knowledge of popular culture). What is it about her (?) that you admire? Just curious.
I’m proud to say the University Medical Center here in Indianapolis is a major sex-reassignment surgery center…
Well. Peterr, if our goddess has ways of testing us, truly our treatment of those she’s chosen to gender-fuck may be our salvation.
I’m happy to say I’ve seen this community close ranks to recognize that our inclusion of transgendered persons defines our compassion and our liberalism. Thanks, TRex, for elevating this to the clarity of LateNite FrontPage.
I have to say that as a fifty-something gay white non-transgendered male bear who’s lucky enough to live in Paradise, nothing clarifies the “walk in his/her moccasin” parable better than hearing my transgender siblings tell their tale of rejection, rebellion, acceptance, and redemption. All I can say is, “Just Imagine!” but of course I can’t and neither can you unless you can.
Thank you, dear theropod, for this call for inclusion and fair treatment of those made differently than we are.
Hey TRex
Did you ever see the documentary “Southern Comfort,” about transgendered people in rural Georgia? It’s really moving.
Now there’s a phenomenon I’ve not seen before. Last thread, from 316 on out, just went retroactively italic.
So is Shirley Manson transgendered or not? One comment implies as much.
lotus @
24
not no more !
TRex, you’re lucky I’m still alive to talk to you. I just got a chance to see that “creature from the beach” from yesterday’s post. {shudder} But back to the topic at hand…
You are ABSOLUTELY right. Having known more than one transgendered person, one well enough to invite to my wedding 28 years ago, I can attest to how brave, kind, gentle and just plain GOOD AND REAL these folks are. Thanks for the post.
Also, by the way, thanks to the people who welcomed my first post here. Gave me the courage to post this! FDL’ers are super folks.
Brian Jackson @ 25
No
*ilson46201 @ 26
Good thing EPU didn’t see that, what with that bold prejudice against italic-ians and all.
Wow. Now that’s chewy. Who would I be if I could elect to transgender myself?
Gad. I can’t think of one man; I’d be a conglomeration. Carl Sagan’s brains and articulation, Keanu Reeve’s reticent intensity, Sean Connery’s snark, bravado and timbre, Christopher Reeve’s bravery, grace and good humor…
Maybe that’s why I’m a woman. Heh.
Wadn’t that weird, *ilson? Italics running amok upthread instead of down-. How it DO dat?
TRex @ 46
Oops… Sorry TRex. After careful consideration, I think I’d have to say I would want to be…
Drew Barrymore! :)
However as the great Steve Martin said in L.A. Story: “I could never be a woman… I’d just sit at home and play with my breasts all day!”
Completely off topic, but wtf is up with all the airline scares? Lieberman loses and planes start turning around so often it’s ridiculous!!! Anyone else see a pattern here?
neurophius @ 20
Oh, gosh. Well, she’s intelligent and talented, obviously. She’s transgressive, but not shrill. She’s one of those people who wears their sexuality is a completely comfortable, matter of fact way. “Yes, of course I am this curious, exquisite, unearthly treasure. Who are you?”
I dunno. She’s a redhead, and a Scot, and she likes food and dogs and is kind to her friends. (She used to keep a blog on the band website, but I think she got too busy to maintain it.) She’s an adult (35? 36?) and not some ridiculous 19-year-old nymphette.
And she radiates a certain sense of power. I dig that in a person. Presence.
And I am proud to tell all y’all that UVA pioneered transgendered surgery a long time ago right after Denmark debuted with Christine.
Brian Jackson @ 25
Nope. She’s a biofemale. But she has often spoken in interviews about being body dysmorphic and struggling with gender issues. It’s all over their lyrics if you know what you’re listening for. She’s very eloquent on the topic.
the italics ran downthread … somebody got in and edited #316 and removed accidently a closing em tag. I jumped in and added one. All’s copacetic now…
TRex
Thank you for taking my question seriously. Now I feel a little less ignorant than I did before.
Is Shirley known to be totally straight? She has that song “Androgyny” which has the awesomely catchy chorus, “Boys in the girl’s room / girls in the men’s room / you free your mind when you’re androgyny”…
In any case, nice post, TRex. Thanks for taking on the whole Coulter/tranny thing, it’s been bugging me since its inception.
Cheers.
I know, Rayne — I been thinking and thinking, but so far I can’t think of a single man I’d want to be.
Hm.
I’ll sleep on that. Maybe have an answer in the morning . . . or not . . .
Anyhow, niters, ladies and gents. What a nice day at our Lake.
Could someone PLEASE POINT ME to the WRITTEN RULES FOR COMMENTING….
I’m just TOO STUPID to work them out on my own…
that, and I feel like BEING A PAIN IN THE ASS….
ahem.
[/joke about an earlier thread]
actually Soviet doctors pioneered the techniques used in sex-reassignment surgery. Many soldiers in World War Two had genitals destroyed — those vets were weirded out. Soviet doctors worked to restore their “manhood” to restore self-esteem. These techniques were used by Danish doctors for Christine Jorgensen, the first famous Trannie …
Patrick:
707. I know which one you mean.
OT: is anyone else unable to go back downstairs?
rules are:
be respectful.
do not joke. (too much)
carry on.
and listen to *ilson, who just improved my data base with his # 42.
Rayne @ 30
Thank you for answering the question. Come on, y’all. You can do this one. It’s not that hard. Don’t be a bunch of scaredy-cats. One name. Some actor or actress or official or singer or hell, even your neighbor. Just somebody that you look at and think, “Huh. Yeah. S/he’s got the right idea!”
Is it such a weird question?
For me it would be Debbie Harry.
One night after this bar I was tending closed, one of the waiters stopped by on his way home with a friend of his who described in detail the journey he was on. He was pre-op.
It was the first time I had ever met someone who was transgendered. And the thing that struck me the most was how courageous he was. I learned some much in a brief meeting with someone I never knew, and most likely would never meet again.
Millineryman @ 47
Now, see? That’s the idea.
Come on, straight guys, you wouldn’t even want to be Melissa Etheridge, the woman whose Lesbian Powaaaah turns straight women liquid and breathless on contact? Or wild and fierce and heedless like Angelina Jolie? Or brave like Amelia Earhart?
Is this freaking y’all out?
Oh yeah.
I recommend that no one donate a penny to the Alabama Democratic Party until they step forward into the light and away from the pathetic position that they need to “distance” themselves from the winner of the primary because she is gay.
I think they actually had her taken off the ballot using some obscure law.
-GSD
I’d like to be Judge Taylor, I think her name is–the one who just slapped down Chimpy in the NSA illegal domestic spying case. I don’t know much about her, but I think she deserves a Presidential Medal of Freedom, the next time we have a real president and the medal means something again.
well hey everyone, home a little early and so nice to be able to check in
sweet post T Rex - interesting question too.
maybe Crash Davis, yeah, probably
gonna catch up on some threads - looks like the Faeries of the Lake have brought yet more gifts
TRex -
I don’t think it’s a weird question at all, but - I guess surprisingly - it’s just not something I have ever thought about before…
and now I’m having a complete failure of imagination…
TRex- thanks for this. The other eve when someone asked “what does GLBT mean”, and I responded, I had occasion to think about the transgendered part of the equation. One friend from grad school, who only came out as a trangendered person after I had left for England, was particularly on my mind. Many, as I learned after, just didn’t know how to deal with this in real time and real place. I wish I had been there, because he/she was one of the kindest and most astute and best colleagues I had during my grad school years. I still think of him/her, and wish I had been there to give assurance and comfort. He couldn’t have surgery, because his health was already iffy, due to three heart defects, each of them serious enough that any one of them would have been fatal, but oddly, somehow compensated for the other. He died of the heart defects while I was in England, and I still wish I had been able to speak to him in his last years.
Transgendered persons have such an extra burden- because the brain and the body don’t match. As a biologist, I see this in a particularly stark biological and developmental framework- the most extreme of biological mismatches between inner and outer. Sorry, I hope that that comes across correctly, because, by saying “mismatch” I am not meaning to convey wrongness, rather, something that our narrow views of sexuality are not ready to comprehend.
There have been two recent examples of transgendered persons in the sciences. One, I learned about most recently. And his words made me feel sane, when I was feeling particularly depressed and unsane, when reflecting on my own experiences as a female scientist.
“Barbara Barres noticed she was frequently interrupted while speaking. But now, Barres writes, “I can even complete a whole sentence without being interrupted by a man.” ~~
“After Stanford neuroscientist Ben A. Barres gave a talk at the Whitehead Institute in Cambridge, Mass., some years back, a colleague is said to have overheard another scientist remarking that “Ben Barres gave a great seminar today, but then his work is much better than his sister’s.”
Ben Barres, however, didn’t have a sister in academia. The scientist was referring to MIT and Harvard graduate Barbara Barres, who later changed her gender. And became Ben.”
http://www.boston.com/news/loc.....nd?mode=PF
http://www.boston.com/news/loc.....firsthand/
Neuroscientist, once a woman, says he saw gender bias firsthand
And, another scientist at Stanford, is transgendered from male to female, and also has noteable comments.
http://www.nature.com/nature/j.....9BCD9CAC20
~Joan Roughgarden profile: A plea for diversity
Joan — formerly Jonathan — Roughgarden rejects established evolutionary ideas about gender roles and sexuality. Everyone wants to discuss the parallels with her personal experience. But the science speaks for itself, she tells Virginia Gewin.~~
I have met several people who went thru the entire experience… maybe I should clarify and say that I knew their histories and the outcomes of their surgeries. They left us then and I hope with all that I am that they went on to live the lives of the heroes/heroines that they are.
not selfish at all, just brave and impossibly good people.
Shirley is actually older than the 35 or 36 guessed above. She turns 40 in about ten minutes (born 08/26/66).
Feh to anyone who says you can’t be 40 and hot.
GSD @ 49
I think that’s going to bite them hard in the ass before this is over. I don’t live too far from there. I might have to get over there and see if she’ll grant an interview to FDL.
I’ll go with Carol Burnett.
My favorite female comic/actor of all time.
-GSD
I met Shirley whan Garbage did a Sunday night love broadcast from Capitol Studio A, while I worked there in ‘987, I think.
She and the rest of the guys were all very nice.
I know 1 TGP, really nice person, and I agree about bravery. While still a he, he lost many friends. Too too bad.
GSD @ 49
here’s the latest corker on that little situation… the law the AL Dem committee is trying to use? while it was submitted to the DOJ for certification, it was NEVER CERTIFIED!
So the whole kerfuffle may end up being moot…
live broadcast, sorry
TRex @ 48
Sheeeeit Trex,I worked in ‘The City’ for awhile.
lived in San Jose. the apartments I lived in had 9 units. 6 out of the 9 had either Gay or Transexuals. Freaked out?
You silly lizard.
I think that the next time someone demands to know the rules, they should be referred to this quote:
“Never exceed your rights, and they will soon become unlimited.
-Jean Jacques Rousseau”
Additionally,
“Don’t bark at the other dogs and you won’t get bitten.”
I’m just saying.
TRex @ 34
Um, TRex, other than those two little “snips,” you described Christy, lol.
I swear, there are a handful of states that should just secede.
-GSD
Anne Haygood @ 55
No way. Is it her birthday tonight? That is SO COOL!!
I’m, like, all psychic and shit.
Great post TRex. One little caveat though. I too enjoyed watching Kirsten Powers treat Coulter as Hannity treats every liberal guest they have on as well. My enthusiasm for her was tempered by some entries I found on her blog though about us dumb liberals supporting Ned Lamont. Here’s an example:
No wonder she got a job on Fox News. She’s their kinda Democrat. The kind who gives a coded message with a wink and a nod to the Republicans to cut it out or they’re going blow Lieberman’s cover as a “Democrat”, and then he won’t be able to help them from the inside anymore.
There are other examples on their as well such as this one.
I’m not trying to take away from the subject of your post. Especially your highlighting of TS/TG courage. Here in Hawaii there is a huge Transgender community that is more open about who they are than anywhere in the US that I have lived or travelled.
My first opportunity to meet and converse with someone transgendered was a hair stylist. After a great 40 minute conversation with her. (His given name was Michael but he lives his life as ‘Mia’) I was a bit nervous and didn’t really know what to expect but being a curious, talkative, friendly and open person, I couldn’t help but ask questions. She was terrific. I learned so much during that one haircut that I left happy that I had met someone and learned something new. (Plus I had a bitchin “do“) Whenever she’s available, she cuts my hair now and I’ve learned so much more.
But I threw the above re-posts from Kirsten’s blog up there to make sure everyone knows her distaste for the Democratic process and what she thinks of people who support Ned!
Patrick @ 41
We’re all about not fanning the flames these days. (I know, I can’t resist either.)
Antony of Antony & The Johnsons is transgender/beyond gender beautiful. I’ve never seen the other Johnsons tho.
well, I will venture to say that Bette Davis and Kate Hepburn and Audrey Hepburn and Melissa Etheridge definately stop me in my tracks.
on the other hand, gimme some Jimmy Stewart, Gregory Peck, Harvey Keitel and Jack Nicholson and I am pretty much all set.
I’m deleting this because I don’t want to start any rumors about Shirley.
TRex… I read your #46 post and then breached the space/time continuum to answer you up at #32 :)
Such is the power of my blogging ‘force’! :)
I have an acquaintance/friend who was born with hermaphrodite characteristics, and of course the doctors determined he/she would make a fine young girl. Well, he/she reached her twenties and decided to stop taking the proscribed chemical treatment. Unfortunately, I don’t think L. has figured out what her gender identity should be, and living in a rural area in the Midwest may not be the ideal environment to figure it out. I’m not sure if I did the right thing, but I tried to encourage L. to move to a larger city (and continue educational pursuits).
op99 @ 67
ah, oh.
Sorry.
Just astonished that someone could come to the party, put a turd in the punchbowl, then repeatedly demand to know where it said on the invitation, NO TURDS IN BEVERAGES.
I mean, geez…..
OK, I’ll put a cork in it.
Trex, great, great thoughtful and heartfelt post. I’ve been sitting here trying to figure out who I’d want to be if I were a man. I’m thinking along the lines of actors because I love film so much. So it would probably be Jeremy Irons (if you ever saw his Donna Karan ad campaign you’d know what I’m talking about). He just has this brainy longing thing going on. For raging sexiness, it would have to be JFK, Jr.
Love love love your comment to neo. These are the things that make us feel alive!
Jenny from the Blog @ 70
Good lord, I hope so.
The trouble with Harry.
Ah, the sweet smell of freedom.
-GSD
I have to admit a certain amount of ignorance. (shush)
I didn’t know her name was Shirley.
I stumbled onto a Garbage video fest one night on tee vee and was transfixed.
Awesome . I fell in love.
Anne Haygood @ 55
Psych!
Marilyn Manson was born January 5th, 1969 according to Wikipedia
from Pam’s House Blend on the AL Stupocratic Party:
That 1974 rule change needed to be approved under Section 5 of Voting Rights Act, according to Jeff.
and the linky for the rest of the article. Karma can be a pain in the as*, can’t it?
*ilson46201 @ 79
Now I always thought he was a lame poseur but I can’t put my finger on why.
T-Rex -
I deleted my 70 about the bugs because I felt uncomfortable about it - you can delete your response if you want.
i guess melissa auf der maur, b/c she’s canadian and because you took shirley manson
GSD @ 76
That reminds me. I need to scoop the cat box.
Talk amongst y’selves. Here, I’ll pick a topic:
Madison Square Garden. Neither square, nor a garden.
Discuss.
Okay, so I see that my longish and serious post about transgendered persons was too serious. I guess TRex was asking “who would I want to be instead”- hmmm… get back to y’all later after I have had time to consider…
Anne Haygood @ 55
From my side of 40, a lot of 40 year olds look hot!
I would like to have been Frank Sinatra.
His voice was dreamy, he was extremely sexy and had a good long life. He liked to drink and party and laugh. Yep, that sounds good to me.
I had a good friend that balled him years ago and she raved about it. I was very jealous of her for that.
Do you ever look at someone of the opposite gender and think, “Yeah, that’s right. That’s how it oughtta be done. If I was a man/woman, I’d be like that!”?
Yeah, Bill Gates. But only for the money.
Hey Steve Audio,
I’ve decided to get an iPod finally and there are some decent deals on Craigs List; some still in the box. Think that’s a good place to get one? I don’t need anything too fancy.
Jenny from the Blog @ 82
Oh, I’m sure she was just winding up the interviewer. Her sense of humor can be very broad, very Scottish.
Okay, I got the answer- JFK. Just because.
TRex @ 56
I wrote to Howard Dean today and asked him to get down there and fix the problem, or expect a credentials challenge to the Alabama delegation to the 2008 National Convention. Seriously.
Shirley Manson was born Aug.26, 1966 according to Wikipedia
for what its worth, I was born on the same day, just a few years earlier … our neighborhhod is having its annual Festival of Lanterns in a nearby park on Sunday and I’m the official photographer so I’ll be busy most of the day …
TRex darlin’– I think you may have “stumped the chumps” (a CarTalk ref) here (I was a bit verklempt, myself) and I do love the post!
come on all y’all!
golly– translatin’ is harrrd werk.
great post … once again, and interesting question
but what man would I want to be? I completely at a loss to think of one which is something I’ll have to think about
Happy Birthday *ilson.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Happy Birthday, *ilson}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Patrick @ 73
Not on my account, I hope.
BTW Nate, if you are still here. I went to Kirstens site too. It really is no wonder she’s on Faux. She doesn’t like it when people call Lieberman names, but I didn’t see anything about Joe saying nasty things about Ned.
I guess she is a Lieberman democrat, which really isn’t one at all.
Jenny from the Blog @ 96
yeah! same here!
angie @ 97
Oh man, I decided to get all decorum-like (because I was too shouty with Cozumel earlier) and angie went and done it! :)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY *ILSON!
Bartcop is the world’s biggest Shirley Manson fan. Check out the bottom of his blog every day. He would really love to meet her, and says so almost every day.
*ilson! happy almost bday!
Jenny from the Blog @ 96
DITTO! Have a great day!
Dang. I may be dating myself, but I still think Michelle Phillips is the bomb. Check out Monterey Pop for details.
But I’m old, straight, Deadhead, Lamont funding, Bush-Hating, etc.
I do love a blog though…
jb
Jenny from the Blog @ 101
I was just trying to spread my wings and streeeetch my back!
xo
Here’s to a fabulous birthday, *ilson! We’re going to get you some new swatters!
Sheesh VG… You gotta give me a few minutes to read your links too! I’m just a high school grad with too many brain cells still covered in bong residue from my teens. We can’t all assimilate info like a molecular biologist. :)
angie -
ya done good!
*ilson, felicitations on your natal day.