
Considering that Holy Joe is now openly campaigning with Republicans (notably GOP House candidate Rob Simmons, with whom he shares Rick Santorum's pollster) and spitting in the face of the DCCC's efforts (we presume) to take the House in November, and Tony Blankley was on Hardball last night openly speculating that Lieberman might caucus with the GOP if he wins, isn't it time to start seriously stripping him of his committee assignments?
It's rather difficult right now to figure out just what, exactly, is going on. According to the Journal-Inquirer:
The Hill reported that Lieberman had rankled his colleagues by suggesting that those who supported bringing troops home from Iraq by a deadline would bolster terrorists' planning attacks against the U.S. and its allies and by intimating that the Democratic Party was out of the political mainstream.
The newspaper, quoting unnamed senior aides to the unidentified senators, said they suggested Lieberman could be stripped of his seniority in the Democratic caucus should he defeat Lamont in the general election.
Lieberman told the Associated Press the day after The Hill's story was published that he had spoken with Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid and that Reid had assured him he would retain his positions within the party caucus should he win in November.
Reid had called him after the primary, Lieberman said, and pledged that if he got re-elected "nothing is going to change."
Nevertheless, Reid's spokesman, Jim Manley, subsequently told the news service that "those types of decisions" wouldn't be made until after the general election.
Lieberman's campaign spokesman, Dan Gerstein, insisted today that Reid had "left no doubt" in Lieberman's mind "that his seniority was not going to be at risk."
"This is a lot of hyperactive staffers who are trying to cater to the bloggers," he said, referring to the Internet writers who generally have supported Lamont over Lieberman.
Gerstein added that the ruckus was "just typical partisan politics" and that people Lieberman had met while campaigning were "not really interested."
But he also suggested that stripping Lieberman of his seniority would be "one of the dumbest things the Democratic caucus could do.
"The point is, the one thing they can't take away from Joe is his experience and his influence, and that's not just based on committee assignments, but on his credibility and ability to work across party lines to get things done for the state," he said.
Earlier in the year, Pach interviewed Chuck Schumer of the Incumbency Protection Racket DSCC who made it clear that what really mattered was Lieberman's willingness to vote for Harry Reid as Senate leader. Is that the game we're playing here? Because Ned Lamont would, of course, vote for Harry Reid; is it all about making sure that Reid's got a lock on that Connecticut vote?
Stripping Lieberman of his seniority would be a serious blow, one that could limit the damage he can and will do to the three much-needed House seats. It also has the potential to knock Joe out of the race. Is it worth the cost of three House seats and the risk that Joe might switch parties to "play it safe?" That's an awfully high price for -- well, for what, exactly?
And might I remind anyone who has troubled themselves to forget -- Lieberman has already punk'd Reid once before when he promised he wouldn't leave the party. Does he really believe Joe won't plant one in his back to help his GOP buddies if it suits his purposes to do so?
Because I really just do not find that much of a stretch.
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NED!
Fitz!
And give ‘em hell, Jane!
What the hell, indeed! What are you thinking, Harry? Get a grip and boot the guy.
Harry,
If the Democrats won’t stand up to a threat from Joe Lieberman, what makes us think they will stand up to the “terrorists”?
-GSD
OT.
Listen to this “analyst” on Fox News. It has all of the Neo-con spin points. They are conditioning the American people. Iran=Hitler’s Germany.
Also, listen to the “Iranian people will rise-up meme”.
Wolrd War III Propaganda Blitz
Great Title.
Just left a voicemail in Harry’s Vegas office.
This is really weak, it does nothing to instill confidence in the party. It shows no leadership.
EPU’d after 3 crashes here at home
clearly agitated, clare is given a timeout and passes the time . . .
DITHERING SCHUMER CAN’T COPE
DIDACTIC SLOGANEERING CASH CULT
DULL, SHITTY, COSTLY, CAMPAIGNS
DO SEND CONSULTANTS CASH
DID SCHUMER CRATER CONNECTICUT ?
DODDERING SENATORS CLAIM CERTAINTY
DSSC SPEWS Complete CRAP
DEMAND SCHUMER CEDE CHAIR
What Harry’s thinking is that A*PAC’s pipeline into Democratic HQ is working just fine, thank you very much.
If Harry doesn’t strip Joe, perhaps we should strip Harry. Of jobs folks, not clothes. There’s no way I could handle the latter.
Glorfindel: UPCHUCK Schumer! How absolutely fitting!
Full of sound and fury ..signifying nothing.
My thoughts lately on Harry Reid, that is. I fell for it and had hope when he did the closed session bit to force movement on the Iraq intelligence report. That was last November. What chance is there that Repubs will let that happen before the election?
I have heard all the excuses - some valid - about Harry being in the minority party, so there is not much the Dems can do. Well, this is an exception. Stipping Leiberman of his committee seniority is totally within Harry’s power.
This whole gutlessness by Harry, and the fence-sitting DLC on JoeMentum makes me sick. What on earth will it take to get the Dems to listen? And yes, I have called my elected representatives and sent emails (mostly to Kohl, love Fiengold). I’ll be a warm body for the Dem machine in October, but this is driving me nuts!
“This is a lot of hyperactive staffers who are trying to cater to the bloggers,” he said, referring to the Internet writers who generally have supported Lamont over Lieberman.
They are so trying to make ‘bloggers’ toxic. He is forgetting that the Democratic voters of Connecticut generally have also supported Lamont over Lieberman.
Right on target, Jane!
OT– Dana Milbank on msnbc re Allen today.
This story is not going away…
Harry. It’s called Leadership. Leader. Lead. Please.
Everyone is watching and waiting for each and every one of you to take the necessary steps to unify this party. Lead.
Reid’s a survivor. He survived a general election eight years ago by 800 votes, if memory serves. So he knows the costs of the given gesture. What, then, would it cost, at this time, to strip Joe, or threaten to strip Joe, of his assignments and seniority? And whom would it cost? For example, would it ONLY cost Harry Reid, and would it only cost him his leadership, or would there be other costs involved–to Reid as to other Democrats? Just asking…..
Reid has a point, albeit wishy-washy, in that the new dem congress should make the decision after the elections. But really it’s just vacating the opportunity to lead. Now.
There is no dem leadership. None that we haven’t seen for the last five years. They are still afraid of their own shadows, except for Feingold. Otherwise it’s nine-to-five reach-arounds in the hallowed halls.
What they’re doing (not doing) is the dem equivalent of W’s boys on Katrina. They don’t care. Didn’t when it happened. Don’t now.
The void is roaring.
Listen - I know you all are going into moderation right and left, and I’m freeing you as soon as I can, and I have Christy looking into it…hopefully, we’ll figure it out soon!
Hang in there!
One: Dan Gerstein is a lying sack of shit. I believe nothing that comes from him in any form.
Two: Lieberman is a lying sack of shit. I believe nothing that comes from him in any form.
Three: Bloggers are NOT lying sacks of shit. People (FDL and Atrios) have been calling this right from the get-go and they continue to be ignored.
Lieberman will probably not switch parties, but he will caucus with the Reptilians and he will finally switch his tack on Choice and stab NARAL in the back.
It’s time for Reid to put an end to this shit NOW! This can’t go on any longer. I’m sure that the Democrats are split between the old way (losing elections, losing seats and getting no respect) and the new way. The new way has the old men scared and they can’t bring themselves to change.
Netroots is just a tool, but the new force in politics are people and the people have to first kick out the Democrats and then kick out the Reptilians. It’s sad it has to be this way, but so be it.
Git yer gloves on, kiddies. It’s time to rumble…
They’re not going to touch his committee assignments until they see who they’ve got to work with after November. They’re hedging their bets.
Reid is shadow boxing. So much for his tough-guy creds.
Today’s the day Mt. Vesuvius erupted (79 AD) and the Visigoths sacked Rome (410) . . . I think the chances of explosions from Harry Reid’s office are going up, resulting in the sacking of a former Democrat.
Not there yet, but the chances are going up. Minor earthquakes have been felt, puffs of steam have been seen venting . . . yep, the chances are going up.
Tony Blankley on Hardball, emphasis added:
Jane - This post could not be more appropriate or timely. Thank you!
I have called Reid several times before - but before this day is through I will call each of his offices across the country and get this message through.
If everyone else at FDL does the same, we will send a message.
If you only do one thing this year for the Democratic party, please let this be it. If you are hesitant, please read Jane’s post again.
It isn’t clear what is motivating Reid to hold out for Lieberman, but he has GOT to be on the fence at this point given the mounting evidence of what Joe is doing to the Democratic party.
Our collective voices could be the push that he needs to strip Joe of his committee seats.
Please, I implore you, give Harry hell about this!
I can understand Reid being worried that if he spanks Lieberman too hard and Lieberman wins, he will turn on Reid and the party. Maybe it’s a risk worth taking, but I can forgive Reid for being worried about it. Lieberman is such a santimonious and unforgiving person.
What I am not impressed by is the faint support for the party’s nominee. Reid should go make an appearance for Ned, along with the rest of that Senate crowd who are hanging back to see whether Ned wins before becoming his best new friend.
If JL defeats Lamont, but his run causes the defeat of the 3 Dems, then I agree with punishment for such disloyalty. That decision is easy to make, after the election.
The problem we face before the election is different. What would the effect on the election be of punishing Joe now? Jane suggests this would help the 3-Dems and possibly knock out JL. There seems to be little dissent from this view. But I don’t see the logic. Call me obtuse.
Heard Bob Geiger yesterday. He covers the Senate for Democrats.com and Huffington Post.
He said that Reid’s hands were tied and that the Senate in general votes for committee memebers.
Gerstein added that … people Lieberman had met while campaigning were “not really interested.”
Ah. First statement of truth out of that mouth in years.
Lieberman has already redefined himself out of the Democratic Party. The next time the Democrats caucus together, even before the election that replaces him with Lamont, they’re all going to be asking themselves, “What’s he doing here?”
How can the Democrats have a meaningful caucus that includes someone who has already identified himself as something other, someone who is working as hard as he can, with his Republican supporters, to defeat the Democratic candidate and to defeat Democratic opposition to the Republican administration? What sort of discussion can take place with him in the room?
So either you toss him out of the Democratic Caucus or you create a new one, which does the real working and thinking. Maybe you call it the Democratic Caucus Minus Whiners, I don’t know. But if they have serious work to do before the election, they can’t do it with Lieberman there.
Look, Harry– Lieberlies is on the Armed Services Cmte, the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Cmte, Environment & Public Works Cmte, the Small Business Cmte.
Just where has he averted disaster? Voting and supporting endlessly the Iraq War and anything else the neocons propose? By hurtling thru cmte the infamous Michael Brown to head up one of the biggest domestic governmental failures with Katrina? I could go on and on and on.
Hell’s bells man– strip him now!
Let’s connect some dots, shall we?
Is it just an accident that Schmuck Chumer’s running the DSCC? Or is it his access to Wall $treet con$tituent$? Bloggers are swell for firing up the base (if that’s what the Dempros even want), but it’s the big donor$ who pay the bills and call the shots. And Joey’s their guy, now more than ever.
Harry’s a good soldier. He’s following orders from higher authority, because that’s what good soldiers do. What else would we expect? (Yeah, I know, he was so nice at YKos and stuff. But that was then, and this is now.)
If you want somebody who’s his own man, try Howard Dean or John Edwards or Russ Feingold or Teddy Kennedy. They aren’t taking orders from the War Party High Command.
portia.vz says:
August 24th, 2006 at 7:44 am *
Joe is LESS likely to caucus with the Dems if re-elected. The only way he can deliver for Connecticut is if the Republicans reamin in the majority and he is one of them.
And that is what his campaign is trying to ensure. What can he get out of being in the minority after this?
Schumer et al better wake the hell up. BTW, I got another begging letter from the DSCC yesterday. I’m not giving any money until I see that Ned is supported enthusiastically by Schumer et al. And I don’t mean a token $5000.00 check. Do they want power or do they want incumbency? Pick one.
Good point from the earlier thread - BTW am I the only one having loooooooooooong waits here?
windje
email DSCC
Email Senator Reid
If you have a login at Give ‘Em Hell Harry website please comment on this:
http://www.giveemhellharry.com.....nrubin/BhK
I’m guessing that Reid needs Lieberman for a crucial legislative vote that is about to come up before the election. Could it be the Specter NSA bill? Whatever it is, the margin of error for it is so slim that he can’t afford ot lose Joe.
After the election, it’s curtains for Joe. Actually, I’m pretty convinced now that Joe can not win this thing.
IIRC at YKos Give ‘em Hell Harry was quoted as saying “actions have consequences.” Oh really? I say Prove It!
So lets think this thing through. Come the election, who will be working for Joe to GOTV, canvass, call, etc? He barely had the dems to do any of it last go round. He also had trouble hiring kids to do it for him.
Will he use repugs? Will they be happy to? Then what?
I don’t see J-Lie staying with the dems because they have nothing to offer to help him get elected. Once he’s jumped to accepting repug help, he will owe them big time.
Or am I missing something here?
Not quite OT, I was walking up Sixth Ave this morning and spotted Bob Kerrey having breakfast. I was tempted to barge in and harangue him for stumping for the CFL instead of the D candidate in Connecticut, but I balked, him being a trained killer and all.
“is it all about making sure that Reid’s got a lock on that Connecticut vote?”
Yes. Reid is almost paranoid about the CT vote and has been telegraphing that concern ever since Yearly Kos. Trouble is he didn’t really believe that Ned would show so strong and now he is boxed in. Seems to me that if he really wanted to ensure the CT vote he would actively support Lamont.
EPU’d from last thread:
It seems the Democrats are too much concerned that Joe Lieberman’s potential vote in the Senate might be the difference between them being the majority party or not.
First there is the likelyness that Ned Lamont will winn in Connecticut, and that would make the Lieberman issue mute.
However, should Lieberman win in November, there still are the possibilities that the Democrats win a majority without Lieberman’s vote or Democrats being in the minority with Lieberman’s vote. In either case, Lieberman would be meaningless. So just playing the statistics game, Lieberman will either not be a part of the next Senate or his vote might not mean much.
I wonder if there are people in the Democratic party who assess those risks. The smart money is no longer on Lieberman.
My personal favorite:
DEMAND SCHUMER CEDE CHAIR
This is another good spotlight candidate for the pundit class.
I guess I don’t fully agree but instead align my position closer to that taken by Alabama (15) in the comments. Certainly, if Lamont wins in November (woo hoo!) he will caucus with the Democrats. Should Lieberman win (boo hiss) the last thing that the Democratic leadership wants to have happen is for Lieberman to caucus with the Republicans. Imagine if the Senate is split 50/50 by Lieberman agreeing to caucus with the Republicans and then Cheney is the tie-breaker. Should we win the Senate by more than one then there may be an opportunity to strip Lieberman of his seniority but otherwise it may not make sense.
The LIEberman issue can be reframed as Pascal’s square
Lieberman loses - Whether he’s on or off committee, makes no difference
Lieberman wins - If he stays with the dems do i trust him
If he goes to the repubs, query - are there specific rules on seniority or are they party specific and arbitrary?
If he wins and joins the administration, you’ve got a junior repub. senator from ct
The key is to just beat him at the polls - lets not get lost in a side issue.
alabama @
13
alabama, Joe’s using his name recognition, bought and paid for by Al Gore, to campaign with Republican Congressional Candidates. The facade of his independent campaign is over. Joe’s a Republican.
There are tremendous costs if Harry doesn’t do something. We’ve given Harry a pass up until this. Joe crossed the line.
This is symptomatic of the problem with the Dem leadership - no balls. If Lieberman (by some miracle) actually wins in November, I don’t think there’s the slightest question left as to who he will caucus with.
Dammit Harry, throw the bastard out and let’s end this thing.
BitNOLA, your The void is roaring is impeccable — and, therefore, the mirror-opposite of its subject matter.
I know some folks around here see certain qualities in Harry Reid (his boxing skills transposed to politics and all) that I miss. But one night a year or two ago, I watched Jim Lehrer try to interview him, and all Lehrer (a master interviewer by my count) could pry out of him was pap as meaningless as Bill Nelson’s. Content-free, all-purpose, 100%-unresponsive mushmouth.
Whoever wants it is welcome to ALL my share of Harry Reid.
All the Republican support, advisors, funds, do not come without a price. If Lieberman wins, the chits will be called in. Lieberman will caucus with the Republicans. Period. Reid can’t be that stupid….can he?
Why can’t the Dem leadership make it clear to Joe that from here on out, whether he does or does not keep his seniority or get plum committee assignments is going to depend on his actions as a Democrat from this point forward. Hold Joe to his words: “I’m a loyal Democrat,” and define for him what that means: “you vote with us, you campaign for Democrats, you stop undermining the chances of picking up House seats by campaigning with Republicans. If you don’t, all bets are off, and we have incumbent Democrats who can ascend to the positions you would have had, who understand what it means to be a Democrat.”
If he responds with, “But I have to do whatever it takes to win,” then the answer to that is equally clear. “Then we have to do what it takes to make sure the Democrat in this race wins.”
alabama @ 15
I understand everyone wants Lieberman punished for his self-serving candidacy.
But has anyone ever been relieved of committee assignments PRIOR to the general election?
How does this help Lamont get elected?
Are undecided voters, leaning Lieberman, going to suddenly make up their minds in favor of Lamont because Joe has been told by Harry Reid he’s no longer on the Armed Services Committee?
If Joe is no longer on the Armed Services Committee, will Bechtel suddenly give money to Lamont? Lamont doesn’t take PAC money.
Maybe you could enlighten me, because frankly, I don’t get all the outrage at Harry.
A lot of talk about the political maneuvering involved and a couple of good points raised, but…
What about simply doing what is right! and damn the consequences. Joe is currently running AGAINST the Democratic candidate and should pay the consequences regardless of what happens in Nov.
People are hungry (starving) for leadership and Harry needs to get out in front.
The main reason that ‘Dems are weak on terror’ meme gets any traction is because they act like wussies, even in situations like this where they don’t have to. Harry - show a little sac man!
Dear Senator Reid:
Strip Lieberman of his committee assignments now. Move his freakin’ office to the basement. Remove his desk and replace it with a wobbly folding table. Remove his chair and replace it with a splintery wooden crate. Remove his phone. Replace it with an out-of-order pay phone. Take away his goddamn stapler. And his pens. Replace them with stubby, dull pencils. No mercy. Do it all NOW. Make him jump to the Republicans NOW, not after the election. Strip him, and force him to choose what clothes to wear. And do it now. By forming his own vanity party, he has left the Democratic party. He is now the most junior of junior senators. Treat him as such.
karen allen @ 44
This seems so obvious to me. I can’t imagine that Harry is this dense.
I’m not sure I buy the fact that Harry’s hands are tied. Even if there is a big vote of some kind coming up, has Harry been able to count on Joe’s vote in the past? Alito, anyone?
Meanwhile, on the other side of the building, I wonder how the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee feels about Joe campaigning against THEIR candidates for the House. Seems to me that if anyone on Capitol Hill should get riled up about this, it would be them. They are the folks getting directly shafted, since Joe’s working straight-up against their efforts to retake the House.
Ah, more phone calls . . .
oh sweet jeebus Mister Leopardskin Pill Box Hat !
if we spotlight it, all we’ll hear is those nasty, impatient bloggers were banging on the weakness of the Party again !
but then again, the Moose is out of ideas for another post . . .
sorry for being so squirrelly y’all - but if Jane Hamsher doesn’t know what they’re up to, how the hell am I to make sense of the frustrating crap these guys are pulling ?
clearly these clowns expected to be greeted as Lieberators . . .
lina - I think you’ve got a really good thought there…
Wouldn’t Joe’s funding dry up if he is stripped of his committee seats?
Good morning, all!
How does this help Lamont get elected?
Lieberman is touting his seniority, striped of it he cannot use that in the election.
Also, the money coming to Lieberman is based on his senority, therefore stripping him of his senority takes the wind out of his fundraising, and right now that is all he has.
The DSCC web page has stopped listing LIEberman as a dem but still has him as an independant with no mention of his de facto GOP status.
Greedy
Obtuse
Pedophiles.
Tom @
43
My feeling exactly. “If Lieberman wins”? Why not just make sure he doesn’t?!
Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing Ned tonight in NYC — along with The Roots! — at the Katrina fundraiser. I never thought I’d see a Senate candidate in Crobar, should be interesting…
Joe crossed the line a long time ago. I’m not worried about whether he’ll become a Republican because he already has. And I really don’t fucking want him in the Democratic Party - at all. End of handwringing with Harry or Chuck or Bidens of the world. The only thing left for us to do is to put all our efforts into making sure Ned gets elected. He is a real live star and he will demonstrate that any day of the week.
I think it’s time to design another phony check to put into DSCC and DCCC return envelopes.
On the “pay to” line how about
“You’ll get my money when you fully support Progressive Democratic candidates, and not before”
any better suggestions? It’ll be up on my site soon.
Share your comments with Senate Minority Leader Reid on my blog post at his website.
Give Harry Hell here: http://www.giveemhellharry.com.....anfran/BhF
We must do several things. Double and redouble our efforts on behalf of the Lamont campaign. Ned MUST win and then the Lieberfreak can change parties and take a cabinet post as a repuke.
But we must also NOW get Joke tossed out of the party. He dissed the rules since his loss the Lamont. He can serve out his term as a loyal democrat or be booted out as a disloyal spoiler (which he is). Therefore Reid, the DSSC and all the other beltway D’s must disabuse themselves of the notion that Joke is with the democratic voters. Joke is with Joke and sound more like an R pulling for Israel than a connecticutarian pulling for jobs and getting our troops home ASAP.
Joke must go and go NOW and if he stays in the race he MUST BE TROUNCED.
Actually, what Reid should do is say this:
“Joe, we’ve been nice to you so far. We’ve let you keep your committee assignments.
BUT IF YOU CAMPAIGN FOR REPUBLICANS, WE WILL TAKE THEM AWAY FROM YOU.
You’ve already been given one ‘gimme’. You won’t get another one.”
That will make Joe stop.
clearly these clowns expected to be greeted as Lieberators . . .
Ooowee, Clare is ON today, y’all.
Reid is a weak leader; he’s no Lyndon Johnson in the Senate. He personally may (by unquotable reports) be furious with Joe and agree with us, but he does not crack heads in the caucus and supposedly does not think he has the votes to strip him. . . at least, that’s what I got from back channels last week. Whatever.
He doesn’t even want to call a vote before the elections, though the vote would be via secret ballot in closed caucus session. No staffers, just the senators. He’s following the lowest common denominator in the caucus, but I’ll bet if he called a vote, they would feel intense pressure to dump him. They just don’t want to go on the record.
Insiders say it’s because they fear Joe may win and seriously fuck with them, though for others, they just want to keep the corporate cash flow and legalized lobbyist bribes coming. I’m sure Schumer is trying to hedge all bets and applying pressure to Reid.
It’s true Joe could really fuck them all over, and all their home-state agendas, given the rules the Senatae operates under. But he’s already fucking them so hard they’re ordering all new seat cushions.
It’s a pathetic situation.
lina @ 47
What you say makes good sense. But, I also have to say for me only, that it’s an example thing perhaps. Future charlatan Democrats: take note.
Hey, Kai! Um … for us out here in the sticks, what’s Crobar?
This is an Animal House moment. Time to chop up the Lincoln and disrupt the Joe parade. Only problem is Harry is no Bluto.
scarecrow @
25
I would never call you obtuse.
My guess is Jane’s position is from her gut about Joe’s strategy. Joe is betting that he can hold onto 30% of the Democratic votes, because they won’t notice he’s campaigning with Republicans. The three Republicans want to ride Joe’s coattails. They want some of those Dems that Joe thinks will be voting for him to vote for them, plus the independents.
My sense is now that the Democrats have nothing to lose in stripping Joe of his posts. It’s better to face that now. If Joe were to win, (I don’t think that will happen), he would go with the majority party.
.
Hmmmm, it just dawned on me why Reid is holding back. Lamont is an “outsider” candidate. If Reid shows too much affection for him, it could backfire on him making it look like he is backed by the party establishment. If the Lamont campaign is fueled by a “throw the bums out” mentality, then Reid has to provide covert support. I think he is providing enough rope for Leiberman to hang himself.
Lamont is correct to continue to reject PAC money and not to court the party too much.
He’s gonna win anyway.
windje at 41
I think this is right. I have not seen a strong argument explaining why officially punishing Joe now helps Ned win in November. There are lots of what I think are irrelevant reasons:
We don’t like Joe.
We think he’s a traitor to his party.
We think he’s hurting the 3 dems.
We think he’ll turn on Dems if he wins.
and so on.
I can accept all of these and still don’t see how stripping Joe of whatever he has helps Ned win. My problem is there are all kinds of Dems that, for better or worse, we’re counting on to get to 51. And several of them are just as bad as or worse than JL, and on more issues than just the war, choice, energy, etc. So that explains why the Dem leadership would be extremely reluctant to strip JL.
What I want the Dem leadership to do is to help Ned win — endorsements, money, directed fund-raising, embracing him (as Dean did last night) as the smart, successful new face of the Dem party. If someone can explain why publically punishing Joe in the proposed manner helps Ned win, I’ll join the chorus, but right now, I’m still singing off key. Sorry.
RevDeb @ 58
“No money from me until you stand up to Joe Lieberman’s campaigning with Republican House candidates!”
Be specific - we’re talking about Joe, and this is why.
Contact info for Jim Manley, Harry Reid’s spokesman:
202-224-3542 (fax: 7327)
Ask him if Reid will stand by while Lieberman campaigns for Republican Congressional candidates in CT.
Hi lotus!
Crobar’s one of the biggest, most popular nightclubs in NYC, usually packed with halter-topped hormone-dripping 20-somethings on Red Bull and vodka. I have a feeling the vibe tonight will be a little different, given the subject matter…though they’ve got a hot line-up and an open bar, so you never can tell…
When the democratic grass roots makes its voice heard, it would be nice if Reid, Schumer and other Dems listened, and took supporting action. It has been a hard slog these past several years with the neo-cons in office, but part of the problem getting things done must be laid at the door of the deaf Dems. Joe Lieberman is not only a loser, he’s a backstabber. If the Dems think they can placate this guy they’re nuts or worse. If Lieberman wins he will be even more of a meglomaniac than now. He will polish his newly acquired McCain like maverick status to spotlight himself as a powerplayer. He will sabotage the Democratic party under the guise of serving his deeply held personal convictions. Leiberman is like an old boyfriend - get rid of him, don’t offer any encouragement. Should he decide to caucus with Republicans if elected at least he will have been unmasked for the fraud everone knows him to be. Hear this, Democratic leadership games, whether hedging bets, or the incumbent backscratch, are not playing real well with the voters.
windje 41–it’s not a side issue. The point is, it would be much easier to defeat the seniority-less GOP candidate for the CT Senate than a senior member of the Democratic caucus.
The Republicans are going to offer Joe chairmanship of any committee he wants, and Hadassah will suddenly get offers to join corporate boards. You tell me how much party loyalty it would take to accept those offers, given that he nows “feels liberated” to take the positions he really believes in.
Titanyum 37 asked: how real is this possibility that it all comes down to Joe? Personally I’d estimate it somewhere around 20% probability of happening. But it can be calculated pretty accurately, which I will get around to someday soon. Doubtless our friends (or more accurately, their staffers) in the Senate have done the calculation.
Phil Anders 26–Committee appointment slates are voted on by the full Senate. However, the slates for majority and minority committee members are made in caucus, and the vote is pro forma. There are a number of rules (see, e.g. here). As a practical matter the rules, and to some extent, the caucus leader (through decisions about eligibility) basically determine a lot of it. But it is possible to change the rules in the caucus, as has been done in the past.
CNN repoting LIEberman insulting Dems again. Also the poll of the days panders to the fundies: Were scientists correct in saying Pluto is not a planet? They are asking people to vote on this??
scarecrow, I have great respect for your judgement, so I’m going to continue to monitor comments on this issue before commenting again.
Wrt this, however,“And several of them are just as bad as or worse than JL,” I don’t agree. What makes Joe so bad imo is that he’s from such a blue state. A Vichy Dem like Ben Nelson from NE is much easier to understand, because NE is so Red.
alabama @ 15
Very good question. Of course, if all you’re concerned about is your personal safety, then it’s a pretty good bet that your “leadership” quality won’t get used very often — sometimes being a leader is to face danger head-on for the underlying principle, regardless of what might happen. If the Dems aren’t willing to take stands on even what it means to be part of their party, we might be in worse shape than we thought.
Those in possession of a DSCC “ask” letter are free to download the “blog check lamont” here and cut them out and send them in the envelopes enclosed with the letters.
I know that they probably don’t need our money, but there are many ways of sending a message. This is one.
39 & 40–I am skimming here so I apologize if this has already been said. For me, what is problematic, is that Lieberman is holding everyone hostage–the state of Connecticut and the Democratic party. If the Dems weren’t hedging their bets and just came out and said that or something close to it–publicly telling him to get out of the race–I think Lamont’s chances of winning would be greater. In other words, Dems reticence to get off the fence b/c Joe might win (and then what) help Joe win.
Agreeing with lotus, John Casper, and Pachacutec
that Harry Reid guy ? Two Words . . .
Rule 21
scarecrow @ 69
It helps Ned by reinforcing the notion that Joe is a Republican in Democratic clothing.
To me, this is no side issue. The “big picture” isn’t simply getting Ned elected, nor is it some kind of purity purge of the Democratic party. The big picture is taking back control of both the House and Senate, and bringing some accountability to DC. Joe’s not just messing with Ned, but now he’s screwing over the chances for taking back the House.
Believe me - I want Ned to win. Lieberman has stood in front of accountability far too often. But this election is about more than Ned and Joe - it’s about the whole notion of electing a Congress willing to rein in King George!
To put it another way: for whom, nominally Democratic or Republican, might the election of Lieberman be so important that it would completely eclipse the very important issue of party membership, leadership, seniority, etc.? If any such folks there be, wouldn’t theyl be spending lots of money on Lieberman’s reelection? And if so, how do we find out who they are, if indeed they are?
Lieberman campaigns for Republican Congressional candidates
Can you read, Harry?
OT - since Bush’s statement, “Osama - Dead or Alive”?
1,800 days…
It seems to me that Lieberman campaigning with Republicans is already a chip called in by the Republicans for their support. Lieberman cut a Faustian deal with Rove.
Joe LIEberman appearing/campaigning with republicans . . .
Can someone tell me why isn’t this a dream come true for democrats?
To Peterrr I couldn’t agree more that the big picture can’t be ignored, but winning (and a big win by Lamont may create some coattails) is everything.
John C, my friend:
I agree with all/most of this, but I don’t think it addresses my question. Even if Dems “have nothing to lose,” what is the effect on Ned’s chances of winning? The issue is Ned, not the Dems. The Dems issue comes later.
To Old Coastie and Alice Marshall:
Maybe, but consider this: if you strip Joe now, his funding doesn’t necessarily dry up, because the betting of K-street would be that drumming Joe out of the party assures he holds seniority and possibly becomes chair on committees — but as a very pissed off Republican.
It might be slightly too dismissive to call Reid’s position “a side issue”, but I do agree with the overall sentiment: seems to me that the best mental and spiritual posture for Lamont and his supporters is, We’re gonna win no matter what you folks do…
The FDA has approved Plan B for OTC.
The Bush Admin is going all out to help Lieberman -
what is this blog’s obsession with Lieberman ? Jesus it borders on the neurotic.
Reid voted FOR the Bankruptcy Bill - ’nuff said.
Big question for me and one I hear on the talking head shows is that Joe will win, if he wins, on the vote of republicans and independents. Question: How can independents vote for a guy so chillingly close to republicans and supported solely by them?
Personally, when I see a fox wearing granny’s bonnet, I still still a fox. Joe is wearing, or trying to, the dem ‘bonnet’ to fool everyone. Is it working?
I assume that independents in CT are still voting for Joe in large enough numbers to overcome the dems?
And our D.C. dem leaders are showing their lack of spine — again.
scarecrow at 88 — don’t you think Joe’s already a very pissed off Republican — in all but the official announcement? I certainly do. After a campaign appearance today with two CT Republicans, one of whom is in a very tight race for his House seat and the other of whom is a Governor running for re-election in a race that, should it prove to be more competitive, could have voter turn-out implications for the good for the Dem House candidates. He’s already doing his passive agressive stab the Dem party in the back kabuki dance. It’s all there but the official ink on the page as far as I’m concerned — and has been with every behind-the-scenes maneuver he’s been orchestrating since the asinine false website accusations on the day of the primary. (For which there still has been no apology or correction from the CFL camp. Go figure.)
Thanks for the picture of Crobar, Kai. Can’t wait for your report tomorrow morning!
BTW, on the Courant’s Most Emailed List, Orman’s op-ed is now #7 of 20 (and highly-recommended to all Nutmeggers).
scarecrow @ 69
me too.
If you want to make a useful call today, call the DSCC and tell them to get off their lazy behinds and spend some money on the Jim Webb campaign.
If the Dems pick up VA, they are closed to the six seats Harry needs to be able to tell Lieberman to take a hike.
ron at 91 — you don’t like it, start your own blog. Jane has been following this race since Lamont entered it in January — due to Turncoat Joe’s smarmy cloture vote on Alito. We cover what we think is important — and this race certainly qualifies as important this year.
Right on, Kai!
For those who question how giving Joe the boot helps Ned win………you are missing the point. Joe has removed himself from the Democratic party by announcing his CFJL party. He has made the decision to go it alone and I think the Democratic party should let him do exactly that. He surely will get plenty of help from the Republicans and lobbiests, he’s changed busses, no need to save him a seat!
OT
Emptywheel has an excellent new post up about Bolton henchman Fred Fleitz moving to the House Intelligence Committee, and how that does not bode well for Iran.
“Summary: In this post I look at the report released by the House Intelligence Committee. It serves two purposes, in my opinion: To present the first “case” against Iran, under the guise of calling for better intelligence on Iran. And to suggest that, since we don’t have good intelligence on Iran, we can’t negotiate with them, because we’d have no way of verifying any agreement.”
Recommend the whole thing, but there is also this highlight:
“But what I’m most interesting [sic] in is what Fleitz doesn’t say.
* The outing of Valerie Plame is one cause for the gaps
The report complains that:
A special concern is major gaps in our knowledge of Iranian nuclear, biological, and chemical programs.
Of course, we know Valerie Plame was working on precisely those gaps when Fleitz’ buddies, with the possible assistance of Fleitz himself, decided to ruin her career on a lark.”
wrt the corporate funding drying up - that’s true. but Joe has enough money right now to run ’til November.
Christy, did you see this (Plame to sue Armitage?)?
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001398.php
There are a lot of blogs for you to choose from, Ron. Just saying…
Reid’s going to wait for the election results
before dumping Loserman overboard. In the meantime, it’s Schumer we need to focus on. If Harold Ford was speaking from inside knowledge (and I beleive he was) on Imus yesterday, Schumer and the DSCC are planning on sitting out the CT Senate race. Not giving a dime to Ned. WTF? Isn’t it the DSCC’s stated mission to elect Democrats to the Senate?
I want us to go after Schumer. And keep after him until he has no place to hide, and has to answer the questions:
“Why aren’t you supporting the Democratic nominee in CT with DSCC dollars?”
“When are you going to start campaigning, side by side, with the CT Democratic Senate nominee?”
Schumer doesn’t do so well under pressure - remember his appearance on MTP last month, hemming and hawing over whether he was going to support Ned or Loserman after the primary:
“I’ll make that decision after the primary. Right now I’m putting my energies into seeing that Joe Lieberman is the winner of the primary”.
Well, Chuck, it’s now ‘after the primary’, and you haven’t really said or done anything that clarifies your ‘after primary’ position.
Schumer (DC)
202-224-6542
his senate email
Does anyone have his fax number? I believe a faxing deluge is called for right about now.
And while we’re at it, let’s hit up Emmmanuel to go on the record about how Loserman is damaging those three CT House candidates.
Emmanuel faxes
(DC) 202-225-5603
(Illinois)773-267-6583
Peterr —
Thanks for this perspective; I agree with almost all of it, but I think folks are still ducking the basic question. How does this help Ned win?
There are many ways for Dems to support Ned, characterize JL, and help Ned win. John Kerry showed how to do that. Doing another Kerry-like statement on JL, but using his statements/concurrence on the Glen Beck show and/or that goofy cowboy guy are more great opportunities. There will be no end to these, and not just on the war. Many dems could do this and still be comfortable in their own skins, and Joe is making it easier to do this.
Those help Ned win, by stripping Joe of support from Dems and Indies. But I think handing JL the “I was purged for being a principled bipartisan guy” mantle is NOT smart. It makes it harder for Dems to step up, not easier. The “purge” charge will become the issue, rather than Joe’s extreme warrior statements. And I think the Dem leadership is not going to do it in any event for the reasons I cited.
And John C. I agree with your comment re Blue vs Red state Dems, but that is still not an explanation for why risking the “purge” issue helps Ned.
Don’t miss this from below:
emptywheel @ 210
Dear Liberals, Progressives and other fine Patriots:
As an independent, I am almost in tears over this latest betrayal committed by the Democratic Party. WTF is going on here?!?!
Never has it been more obvious that the Democratic leadership is clearly not on our side. If everything that has transpired over the past five years isn’t irrefutable proof, all hope is lost.
Am I really supposed to be excited about the prospect of a Reid-Pelosi led Congress?!? They can’t even function as credible opposition to the Bush regime now. All of this pussyfooting around with Lieberman is embarrassing, insulting and inexcusable. Do they not get the fact that the Democrats of Connecticut decided they do not want him anymore?!? This hedging bets, equivocating and virtual shunning of Lamont, the winner of the Democratic primary, is the very reason I have resisted and will continue to resist joining the Democratic party. Say what you want about the pubs, at least they have a point of view and they stand by it. Even Howard Dean (one of the few national Dems with a backbone) refused to say the Democratic Party is the party of protecting a women’s right to choose. What’s the point of belonging to a party that’s not willing to stand up for what they supposedly believe in?
And I could write a book detailing the complicity of the ‘big three’ Johnny-come-latelys, Kerry, Gore and Hill. Kerry, a war veteran who can’t even defend himself when people are running around the country saying he inflicted his own war wounds, then collapses like a tent in New Orleans minutes after the Presidential election is stolen from him. Gore, who chose Lieberman as his running mate well after he showed his true colors, and somehow forgets about the environment in 2000. And poor Hill with all of Bill’s triangulation, need to be loved and other BS, and none of the charm and charisma to pull it off. When will we progressives, the true patriots of our time, realize that a revolution is not only desirable, but an absolute necessity?
Strip Joe. There need to be consequences. Otherwise, it will be impossible to enforce any kind of party unity and get anything done when the Dems take back the Congress. We want other Senators to look at the flayed, buzzard-picked carcass of Party-of-One Joe swinging forlornly from a lampost and think, “hell, I don’t want that to happen to me…”
NOTE TO NSA MONITORS: Words used for rhetorical effect. Not advocating actual flaying of Senators.
I agree with scarecrow, Kai and meta –
Mostly because it is not at all easy to just “strip a Senator of his seniority.” These decisions are made at the beginning of each new session of Congress. Lieberman, like it or not, won his place as a US Senator with an overwhelming majority as a Democrat from Connecticut nearly six years ago. That mandate does not end until early January, 2007. To strip Joe of his seniority, it would take some process among the whole caucus — something, I would guess, like a trial. The Majority leader certainly does not have the power to do this on his own.
Considering some in the Senate hierarchy have already said that they support Joe as a candidate in the CFL party, and considering that many Democratic Senators’ opposition to Joe is soft at best, it does not seem that wise to engage in a drawn out, divisive argument about Joe’s current seniority. Even if the result was that Joe was stripped of his seniority as soon as possible (maybe a month or more from now, but before the election) it would just create a huge storm of “Democrats Divided” stories in the press. The specific advantages to Ned Lamont (which I do not think are that great) would certainly be offset by the negative narrative generated about the party as a whole going into the November elections.
Little will be done in the next two months in the Senate, and whatever is done will be run by Republicans. I say, let us just focus on Ned winning in Connecticut without encouraging a broad national Democratic Party food fight.
Go, NED!
Maybe we’re all kind of saying the same thing, but I’ll throw my 2 cents in…
Stripping Joe of his assignments now, and making it clear that should he win in November, there is no guarantee that those plum positions would be restored, helps Ned because it puts them on more of a level playing field, where Joe’s 18 years in the Senate gives him no advantage on the power meter.
Does anyone think that if this were a Republican pulling this crap that the GOP leadership would not clamp down, and hard?
I also think that showing some spine in this instance helps the Dems overall, who are too often accused of having no unity of purpose or vision, which the GOP translates to “weak” on every issue where strength is a plus. How does it hurt them to show no fear, going into an election where fear is the GOP’s main strategy?
oh and check out Gwen’s toolish answer here to a great question from her wapo chat:
Kai @
88
i agree with you 100%. this really is the important thing for us to focus on. the popular saying is that “America loves a winner.” but America loves to root for an underdog as well. Lamont is the underdog and he can reference all of the power players and big money backing Lieberwurst to good advantage. we have to do everything we can to help the party in Connecticut and Lamont’s campaign apparatus. we can forget wondering what Lieberwurst will do after the election. Lamont’s presence in the Senate will impress Reid and Schumer and Emanuel and anybody else that needs to get the message. when that shot hits the target there will be few people who don’t understand what it means.
“purity of heart is to will one thing.”
Fitz You!!! fits me. (Sorry, Gore fans, ’tis true. But we can argue that one another time, if need be.)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 94
Christy — yes, I agree with this, they are all reasons for Dems to be really pissed at JL, but the point I’m trying to get across is that there are two strategies that play very differently:
1. Make it clear to Dems that this is true, by explaining these things as reasons for more strongly endorsing Ned, versus - -
2. Drumming JL out of the party, and risk making the official purge the issue. This, I think plays right into the hands of those who will charactize the situation as the Dems having been captured by extremists. We know this is not true, it’s unfair, it’s up-side-down, but we also know that’s exactly what will happen.
Strategy one accomplishes what we want — supporting Ned, helping Ned win, and moving the Dem party towards Ned.
Stratey two risks all of that.
I could be dead wrong, but this is what my gut is telling me.
107–Well said, I will settle for Dems publicly telling Lieberman to get out of the race.
They outed Plame and now they have no intelligence.
Gee, sounds like a done deal to me. Just like having Benedict Lieberman as their Secretary of Defense so we can fight in the name of Israel to the max. The criminality in this is staggering.
The entire issue will depend on Lamont’s standing in the polls. As long as joe has even a small chance of winning Harry has to play defense. If he strips him and lamont loses Lieberman may very well bolt to the repiglican side. Based on liebs track record I wouldn’t it past him. Harry’s caught in between a rock and a hard place. I think it better to try to get harry to work behind the scenes to sink the old fool.
We’re not drumming Joe out of the party. Joe left the party. He is now a member of the CT for Lieberman party. Let him ask the Senate caucus leader of the CT for Lieberman Party for Committe assignments. He has traded being a senior Democrat in the Senate to being a senior member of a Party of One.
I find it hard to believe there aren’t senate procedures for what to do with a guy who leaves your party.
Clearly, the Pablum-o-crats are badly shaken up by Lamont’s win. Their actions/lack of action clearly indicates that they are more interested in their minority status quo than they are in securing a Dem win in November.
Even if they were to leave Vichy Joe’s committee seats intact, their response to Lamont’s win has been redolent of three day old oatmeal. Tepid, crusty and utterly without taste. Reid, even were he to refrain from disciplining Lieberman has shown that he’s utterly unable to corral folks like Pryor. I had a lot of hope for Reid - unfortunately at the current time, he looks hapless and utterly inept. I wish I felt differently.
ding7777@89
Re: Plan B emergency contraceptive being approved for over the counter use:
Thank heavens for that.
Now must call pharmacists in my area to find out which ones will carry it….
I’ve said it before- I think Joe’s toast. He’s already maxxed out and is trailing when the current polls are adjusted for party registration.
Factor in turnout and he’s further behind.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/8/22/111212/953
That being said, he’s making the congressional seats tougher. I think he’s doing this on purpose, it’s his last card to play, and he knows it.
Over the next few months some more heavyweights with mainstream appeal will come campaign with Ned. George Jepson became part of Ned’s campaign in a formal way this week, and that eliminates Joe’s Stamford base. DeStefano is camapigning for Ned, that hurts Joe’s New Haven base. Weicker is helping bring home the Indys.
Be nice to have a few top pugs come rally around schleshinger. That would cement the deal.
Question - What is the latest on the afl-cio?
Slightly OT good news –
At last night’s Drinking Liberally, Rafe Naboa was in attendance. He is the Lamont Staffer that had his leg broken in the Sailfest auto accident, but not before pushing someone else out of the way. Rafe was the Deputy Director for Field Operations (or something like that) but he’s left the campaign to work on a race for the Colorado State House.
Anyway — Rafe brought a bunch of Ned Lamont Election Day Posters, as gifts for the Drinking Liberally folks. I have about 15 or 20, that I promised would be used as fundraising gifts, or other similar purposes.
Is that cool beans, or what?
Gwen Ifill, you’re an embarrassment! Do your homework, really.
Reality Check
The Democrats haven’t done anything in years
Social Security?
Harriet Miers?
Dubai ports deal?
These were all torpedoed by the Republicans. The Democrats piled on.
Iraq?
Most Congressional Democrats still support it with the caveat that it could have been handled better.
NSA illegal wiretapping?
Judge Anna Diggs Taylor has done more than the all the Democrats in the Senate on this
Presidential signing statements?
*sound of crickets chirping*
Establishment Democrats supported Lieberman despite his backstabbing ways in the primary because he was the incumbent and because his views on Iraq are a lot closer to theirs than to those of the majority of American voters. Their support facilitated Lieberman’s run has an independent. Their token support for Lamont after the primary and in spite of Lieberman becoming more Republican by the day is not some part of a cunning plan. It’s inertia. It’s about being out of step with American voters in the same way Lieberman is and Lamont isn’t.
But honestly, folks, these are Democrats after all. Don’t expect them to take a stand.
They are not going to help Lamont win. If Lieberman’s independent bid falters, their acceptance of Lamont will be conveniently backdated.
re#105 - Just called Levin’s Detroit office. They were trying to rush me off the phone a little - must be getting too many calls regarding Levin’s lack of support for Lamont.
Fitz you @106
If this were the day after the primary, I think it would be a lot easier to do.
Time has passed. Joe LIEberman is making the issue his own whining self. I think people will view stripping him now as a politically calculated rather than principled move.
People may even start to feel a little sorry for him if the purge becomes an issue. (shudder) That might even get him a vote or two.
The focus needs to be on doing everything for Lamont and CT congressional nominees to win.
-ck- very cool beans, indeed!
OldCoastie @ 84
Osama’s name has been changed to Osama bin Missing.
BC
lotus @ 83
by the way, the group of lieberman, rell and simmons is called (drum roll…) Team Connecticut. i think i am going to barf
gah!!!!!!!!!!!
Gwen answers my follow up this way:
OK. I am getting a little agitated looking at this list of CEO donors to Lieberman at Newsmeat. Which is not a site I am sure I necessarily approve of, but Comcast? Pfizer? I am sure it gives Monseigneur Lieberman good reason to piss all our letters to the senator down a well. He just has the moxy to parade down the street hand in hand with Nancy Johnson (Pharma-R) in broad daylight.
BC 127 - Osama bin Missing For a Very Long Time…
1800 days - what kind of sh*t is that? (shakes head in disgust)
Fortune Cookie Neo-Conservatism.
“Whenever a neoconservative says something should be done, whether it is democracy promotion, or instilling purpose in an enervated American populace, or diplomacy you can finish the thought for him by adding three little words: by killing people.”
Kristols’ Kooky Kookie
-GSD
P.S. Lieberman is a pud.
meta @ 122
She’s the distaff version of Tucker Carlson. I never watch her show anymore and I certainly won’t participate in her WaPoO chatz since she took my question about Star Jones vs. Barbara Walters. Lost any respect I had for her that moment, Ms. Ifill did.
Kai @ 72
Hey, what’s the address of this place?
I’ve emailed my senator (Bingaman) twice about this issue, and got a reply this morning.
He thanks me VERY MUCH for my interest in this matter, has a deep and abiding belief in democracy, and believes that the voters should choose their senators.
Well, alrighty then, I guess that’s settled. Wanker.
immanentize @
108
Thanks imm for bringing up the 2000 election and the responsibility to honor that vote. The problem I see, however, is that Joe is the one starting the foodfight. Joe ran as a Democrat in 2000, but now he’s rejected Ned’s primary victory and he is campaigning with Republican Congressional candidates. Imagine how the Dem Congressional candidates feel? These three seats are of crucial importance. IMHO, if Harry doesn’t strip him, he’s creating more problems than he is solving.
OT scarecrow, wrt your “why risking the “purge” issue helps Ned.” IMO purging Joe for campaigning with/for Republicans confirms to CT Democrats that Joe is a Republican. Joe is trying to blur that distinction. He wants to keep as much of the Democratic vote as he can. Ned can’t let him do that and he needs Harry’s help to make the point.
The other, even more important reason to purge, is for the three Dem House candidates. This really hurts them. This is also an “opportunity” to “send a message,” that this kind of shit won’t be tolerated. Joe thinks he has nothing to lose. We need Harry to show him that’s not accurate.
My guess is Joe never would have campaigned with Republicans unless he was having real trouble raising money from Democrats.
Re: the chat about Repub red and Dem blue on the last thread, I retrieved from my Vast Repository of Relatively Useless Information this tidbit:
I couldn’t find a reference but I remember reading somewhere once that there was a convention of the networks alternating red/blue every 4 years, but rotating between “incumbent president’s party” (a moving target) rather than between Rep and Dem. Damned if I can finagle that system to follow history, though.
I’m just wondering . . . after Ned wins, will Harry give Holy Joe the Senate seat anyway? Christ on a Crutch, what do we have to do to get through to these people?
Gwen Awful.
-GSD
Unfortunately, it’s soft spoken weenies like Reid that give the impression that Dems are weak.
immanentize #106:
The committee assignments speak directly to the central issue: Is Joe a Democrat or isn’t he?
Appreciate all the lawyerly nuance, but at the end of the day Harry’s inaction just confirm’s the GOP’s meme: Dems are weak. Harry’s weak. Al Gore was weak. J. Forbes Kerry was weak. How can people like this defend us from terrorists when they can’t even defend themselves?
The Demoractic Party needs to be doing everything it can to support its own candidates, and reducing the power and prestige of its opponents, of whom Joe decidedly is one, is very much in bounds.
My guess is that Joe is campaining with Republicans because that’s where his only votes are…
I don’t even care if they remove Joe from the committees, or officially kick him out of the party.
All I want them to do is:
1) Publically ask Joe to drop out.
2) Vigorously campaign for Ned, with lots of public appearances, lots of money shoveled his way, etc.
Now I don’t really expect that they will. I think we have been handed proof that the Dem leadership is not interested in health and welfare of the Dem party anymore. I think the only remedy is to either leave the party and form an Independent, Progressive party…OR to vigorously assault the Neoliberals like Hillary and Schumer, and push them out of office and out of party.
Both paths are fraught with difficulty, but taking over the party from within will probably be the preferred route of most Democratic Party Progressives. It will likely take decades to accomplish.
-ck- @ 122
Hmmm, I just realized that I have a stack of Lamont election day posters in my trunk as well, which I was putting up in Stamford and Greenwich on that fine day. It’s not the official campaign poster you link to, ck, it’s one produced by Friends of Ned, which the Norwalk office felt was more effective for election day visibility. It never occurred to me that these could have an afterlife as memorabilia…I’d be happy to give them to anyone who knows how to put them to good use…
RGJoe’ll campaign with whoever’s willing to risk having the KISS float show up at their rally.
Speaking of which, is the shellac dry on that mutha yet?
Susan in Iowa @ 99
However unlikely it may seem i’ve wondered if outing valerie plame
may have served two purposes: the one being the one we already know: revenge against wilson and making a smokescreen but two: if the iran strategery was already in the works Bushco would want that intel disabled so they wouldn’t have to listen to it or have it leaked to people who would call them on it.
pete @ 128
Sounds about right — they’re just a collection of marionettes anyway.
Connecticut! Fuck yeah!
BC
JC @136
I don’t think it’s about the money. He has enough contacts to raise that. I think it’s about having boots on the ground to do the campaign work. He needs the repugs now that he no longer can count on the dems doing his GOTV. He can’t just hire kids off the street like he thought he could.
I could be wrong about this, but I think it’s about work force.
Angie @ 129
Gah! indeed!
WHat the heck is wrong with that woman?
By the way, I get lists of “honorable Dems” in my email from some very neocon types I know from a small debate forum.
Of course, the “honorable” ones are the ones supporting Joe.
Why does it not surprising that they think honorable = kowtowing to their party?
Disgusting.
lisadawn82 @ 135
28th St betw 10th & 11th
If Lieberman is going to caucus with the Democrats, why the hell is he the poster boy (just above Ann Coulter) at the top of Powerline?
(OT) Since we’re talking about Lieberman and Wal-Mart (oh, we weren’t? Sorry - but we were talking about Lieberman and since Wal-mart was a contributor to his war chest, it was the best segue I could come up with) - A study in Social Science Quarterly found that Wal-Mart raises poverty rates in counties where stores are located. Nationwide, an estimated 20,000 families have fallen below the official poverty line as a result of Wal-Mart’s expansion. Dependence on food stamps nationwide increased by 8% over the last decade, but in counties with Wal-Mart stores the increase was 15.3%. This is a very interesting study, shows how working at Wal-Mart generally won’t raise you above the poverty level and how Wal-Marts displacing of local entrepreneurs also destroys local leadership capacity. You’ve got the small stores closing because of Wal-Mart and then the chain of supply companies leading up to the small stores closing. I just had to get this information off my chest. Thanks.
Man, Gwen Ifill is throwing some major attitude, Angie. Geeze, does she realize how this sounds?
Teddy, I didn’t see your exchange about Star Jones and BaBa Walters. It must have been a doozy!
Call Harry Reid’s office at 202-224-3542 and ask them what they think of Lieberman’s campaigning for Republican Congressional candidates in Connecticut.
Oh, and let Nancy Pelosi know what’s going on, too: 202-225-4965. I’m sure she’ll be thrilled to death to find out that Holy Joe’s campaigning for GOP Congresscritter candidates.
scarecrow @ 113
I guess I don’t see much difference between the two strategies. How much stronger of an endorsement of Ned (strategy #1) than pushing Joe to quit pretending to be something he’s not?
But you do point to something important. How Harry stands up to Joe matters a great deal. Whining and such does Ned or anyone else no good. But let’s dream a bit, shall we . .
(closing eyes)
Harry Reid, standing with Nancy Pelosi
Joe Lieberman has been a loyal democrat for many years, and it saddens me to see that his loyalty has disappeared. He has rejected the will of the voters in the Democratic primary in his state by running against the party’s choice. Now he has joined in supporting the candidacy of two republican candidates. Sadly, I can only conclude that Senator Lieberman has left the party, and I am therefore calling a meeting of the Senate Democratic Caucus to consider what his status will be for the remainder of this Session, with regard to his seniority, his committee assignments, and other issues that relate to his status as a member of the caucus. My decision is to call the meeting - the members of the caucus will have the final say in any decisions that come out of it.
Nancy Pelosi:
Ordinarily, the members of the House refrain from becoming involved in the issues of the internal organization of the Senage, and vice versa. Today, however, I stand here with my leadership colleague from across the Capitol, because Senator Lieberman’s actions have repercussions far beyond his status in the Senate. By campaigning as he has, he is imperiling the work of the democrats in the House to win the seats in November that would enable us to begin reining in the up-to-this-point unaccountable actions of the Bush Administration. The republican majority has refused to hold real oversight hearings, refused to compel the administration to turn over documents and provide honest testimony, and refused to stand up to the Executive Branch and demand that it accord the the Legislative Branch of the government the equality due it according to the constitution. This must end, and Senator Lieberman’s actions are only making matters worse.
Reid: Senator Lieberman, in my opinion, has placed himself again and again above the party and above the nation in the actions he has taken in the past year. The meeting of the Democratic Senate Caucus will be held to determine what our collective response to those actions will be.
(waking up)
Like I said, it’s a dream - it’s never gonna happen that way, unless Joe starts campaigning for Pombo and Doolittle out here in CA. And Joe’s not that stupid. But you can’t claim to be strongly endorsing Ned without standing up to Joe’s nonsense.
okay, okay, okay, awready . . .
we’re getting distracted - Why in the hell aren’t they bringin’ it hard for Ned ?!?!?
if it’s all about pac money, why can’t the two parties issue a civil, joint statement about they’re agreeing to disagree and still campaign for the Connedicut voters choice ?!?!?
don’t strip Joe of his seats, don’t denounce or repudiate him
just get the f’ out there and campaign for Ned period
merciless @ 135
merciless,
I’m going to push the button for Bingaman in November, but I’m very unenthusiastic about it. I’ve written Senator Bingaman about the issues du jour (Alito, Fourth Amendment violations by BushCo) and never had a satisfactory answer from him
I started writing him off when he voted for cloture on Alito. He hasn’t done anything to convince that he merits my vote except that he’s not going to caucus with the GOoP.
BC
Hugh @ 123
Although I hate to admit it, it’s true. I get so frustrated I want to stop trying, but then I realize that it’s too important.
It’s been said many times by people smarter than me - we’re going to have to clean our own house first.
To Scarecrow
I see a lot of sense in what you’ve said. I know that my own kneejerk reaction is to strip Joe of his seniority/positions. But taking a step back and thinking about it for a bit I have to agree that we Dems have to be FOR something and articulate that something to the best of our ability not withstanding the crappy service we get from the MSM. I also don’t feel like giving the Republicans something they can use to club us over the head with concerning the ‘divisivenes’ of our party.
OnT, but blogwhoring:
Under the optimistic but dubious proposition that Senator Reid reads our Community Blog posts and subsequent comments on his own damn site, you are invited to register there, allowing you to comment on my most recent post, the title of which is STRIP LIEBERMAN.
http://www.giveemhellharry.com.....anfran/BhF
OT Donna Crane from NARAL on msnbc touting the FDA’s decision about the morning after pill–
no chance that Monica Crowley (R- bimbo) is gonna ask about Rape Gurney Joe’s stance…
ummmm- how the heck did the FDA get away with this? Is the rethuglican dream team fracturing?
btw– Ifill also accused me (me?) of ranting on another topic today *g*
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....nav=topnav
Kurt at 143 - Sounds like a plan.
I called the DSCC, Reid, and Schumer to discuss this.
I also called and emailed Ken Salazar. Interestingly, Salazar’s office seems to be getting a lot of heat on Lieberman, and they were less convinced that Salazar’s support of Lieberman is really okay.
Let’s keep on beating them over the head with this. I think if we keep trying, they may do the right thing. Salazar especially.
flatus #140,
Hate to say it but Democrats are weak. Look at their enabling for the last 5 1/2 years. There are a few like Lamont who actually stand for something and that is precisely why he is getting so little and so perfunctory support from them. What these Establishment Democrats are hoping for is that voters don’t so much vote for them for what they have done (because they haven’t done anything) as vote against Bush because he’s a corrupt crooked idiot.
As for Lieberman, just as he telegraphed well in advance that he would go independent if he lost the primary. He is now telegraphing that he’s going to go Republican. And the Democrats? They’re just watching it like some slow motion car wreck but they are not going to do anything about it or anything that will make it easier for Lamont to win his seat.
MATTHEWS: You‘re opening the possibility that Joe Lieberman might become a Republican in the Senate.
BLANKLEY: Well, if Democrats say enough rude things like this, just maybe. The Republicans will certainly offer him the keys to the kingdom if they need him.
Heavens to megatroid! We can’t be RUDE or Joe MIGHT be mean??? Joe has already become a Repug and the Repugs have already offered him the keys to the kingdom. If they hadn’t we wouldn’t be talking about him any more. We all know that the Repugs don’t do anything out of the goodness of their hearts, nor do they do anything for free. All of this money and logistical support of Lieberman comes with the expectation of a big payoff - literally AND figuratively. The Dems continue to hedge their bets and hope to have their cake and eat it too, much like Lieberputz. It’s time to put this wolf in sheep’s clothing (now naked to anyone who cares to look) out of our misery!
My screed to Harry:
So he knows the costs of the given gesture. What, then, would it cost, at this time, to strip Joe, or threaten to strip Joe, of his assignments and seniority?
The reasoning is that there’s no point in antagonizing Joe. If he loses, then it didn’t matter. If he wins, there’s a chance to keep him in the caucus. For all of our disappointment with him (and believe me, I share it), it would be bad to lose the seat by having him win and change parties.
I think this reasoning is wrong-headed. Just as I thought that more senators should have pre-emptively supported the winner of the primary, I think moving boldly rather than cautiously is the right path now. But it is not in Reid’s nature to move boldly, and in the case of Schumer, I think he’d prefer that his AIPAC ally be reelected.
Moreover, this really is an insurgency. They know that. They’d be happier if we’d all just STFU. That’s what’s funniest about Gerstein’s “blogger” smears–he’s continuing Lieberman’s biggest mistake. He’s talking to the Beltway, not the voters with those lines. The voters don’t know from bloggers.
OT - has anyone in the Senate signed on to Feingold’s censure project since the court ruled against team shrub? Or joined Conyers’ efforts?
Jumping in here without reading the comments yet. Here’s what I don’t understand… Lamont is not some outlier candidate like Tasini - he won the primary, has the money and the fortitude, and has already proven he can win the general if he just gets an OUNCE of support from his party.
I just don’t understand the downside to getting behind Ned in full force - the downside of letting Lieberman walk down this path of wreaking havoc on the party is already on full display!
They’ll get their majority with Lamont, if it comes to that, and a loyal and strong senator to boot - who will work with them and not against them.
THE WHOLE SITUATION IS NUTS.
so: harry’s email form on his web page is not working . . . how interesting…
http://reid.senate.gov/
cbl@7 -I can’t pick out which one I like best.
The philosophy of Dems who stand back and hope the Repubs will defeat themselves:
“They also serve who only stand and wait.”
(Milton)
Angie,
spotty, random recollection-
believe FDA was about to lose 2 lawsuits over this - apparent concerns that if the suits went forward all kinds of crap would’ve hit the public record
random, spotty part -
Former FDA Commish is facing criminal indictments on some financial disclosure issues re: Big Pharma - it is believed some of his minions were trying to help him out by keeping aforementioned all kinds of crap quiet
i heart jane @ 169
I just fired one off. Maybe his server’s getting hosed!
Hugh @ 165
They’re not weak at all. They’re complicit.
They know full well what they are doing. This is what they choose to do.
cbl– thanks!
tommy yum @ 173
hope so: will try again . . . after a call to him and pelosi . . .
Goodness Hugh and Kurt,
I feel like some kid who’s parents have just announced their divorce . . .
weak. . .complicit, weak…. complicit
how about Schumer is complicit, Reid is weak ?
I just called Harry Reid’s Reno, Nevada, office (702-388-5020) and was told Reid didn’t know Lieberman was out at pubic gatherings with Republicans Jody Rell and Rob Simmons today in CT. The aide told me no one has called their office about this before me today.
Reid’s Las Vegas office is 775-686-5750. His Washington office is 202-224-3542.
Here’s my letter to Minority Leader Reid at his website contact form:
http://reid.senate.gov/contact/email_form.cfm
In today’s Hartford Courant…
http://www.courant.com/news/op.....6706.story
Lieberman’s Third Party An Election Year Sham
August 24, 2006
JOHN ORMAN I wish to file an official, notarized complaint about the new candidacy of Mr. Joseph Lieberman. I ask that the secretary of the state and the Elections Enforcement Commission remove Mr. Joseph Lieberman from the November ballot for U.S. Senate because he has undermined the integrity of our Connecticut electoral process by his action of creating a fake political party,
Mr. Lieberman may have violated Section 9-368c “Misrepresentation of Contents of a Petition.” He claimed to the secretary of the state’s office that he wanted to start a new political party called “Connecticut for Lieberman” within 12 hours after losing a Democratic primary for the U.S. Senate. He has absolutely no intent of forming a legitimate third party.
(snip)
As a complainant, I have standing on two grounds. I was a Connecticut voter on primary day who had his vote made meaningless by Mr. Lieberman’s poor sportsmanship. Moreover, I too was a candidate for the same Democratic nomination for U.S. Senate in the same election cycle. I accepted my defeat when I had to exit the race in 2005. I called Mr. Lieberman’s Senate office to tell him that he certainly defeated me and I was leaving the race. I accepted my defeat in the long tradition of Connecticut electoral politics.
Mr. Lieberman’s phony party, “Connecticut for Lieberman”, violates the spirit and intent of our state laws covering third-party development. This law was never intended to allow defeated majority party candidates to run again after they have been defeated. If Mr. Lieberman wanted to form a real third party, he should have dropped out of the Democratic primary and formed one. Instead he gathered petitions while being a registered Democrat and while presumably using Democratic money to start this party of one. This is high-class election fraud and he should be removed from the ballot.
He may or may not have lived up to the letter of the law, but he sure grossly violated the spirit and intent of our third-party laws. He is only doing this to force the state to vote all over again between Mr. Lieberman and Mr. Lamont. We already had that election.
John Orman of Trumbull is a professor of politics at Fairfield University. His effort to win the Democratic nomination for Senate ended in September 2005.
Jenny from the Blog #168,
Which of these is not like the others?
Schumer, Lamont, Hillary, Lieberman
Establishment Democrats do not back Lamont strongly because they have more in common with Lieberman.
Jenny from the Blog @ 168
Thanks for reminding us of Jonathan Tasini, the progressive Democrat opposing Hilary Clinton in the Sept. 12 New York primary.
boy, I hope Spazeboy has his camera all charged up!
Mary,
if you’re still about
Ditherers Stale Cheesy Cabal
Does Schumer Con Contributors ?
sorry, I’ll be over here
The good news is that our left wing noise machine is on it. Kos, MyDD, Atrios and Crooks and Liars are now all reporting this.
Maybe, just maybe the trad med. will pick up on it. It may take the media to put a little shame into the dem establishment.
My two cents –
There is no way Joe Lieberman is going to be booted out of caucus before the election — unless he openly changes party affiliation. Since his interests are served by muddying the waters on that issue, it probably won’t happen.
That said, I think it is worthwhile to keep the Democratic Leadership’s feet to the fire on this — with the understanding that this is kabuki theater for all concerned.
Shorter answer — keep up the pressure, but don’t go ballistic or get too emotionally invested.
Reid has a strange history of supporting those who hurt his party. Witness his lack of support for Senate Democratic candidate Jack Carter–sure he’s given him a few bucks, but has not actively campaigned for him because of his deal with John Ensign, ultra conservative, anti-tax Senator from Nevada. Strange behavior from the minority leader don’t you think? Somehow, Reid gets a pass on this out of his home state.
karen allen @
179
FWIW, I left a voicemail with Harry’s Vegas office about 10:10 this morning, because it was still closed (8:10 Vegas time?). I told them Joe was campaigning with Republicans and I told them to look at Jane’s post at FDL. I will call them again, just to let them know we’re paying attention.
I screwed up.
I called Harry’s Vegas office this morning, not Reno, sorry.
Odd, these cult-of-Hillary, issue-detached New York Democrats:
http://www.maristpoll.marist.e.....060823.htm
Almost two-thirds of Democrats surveyed are more likely to support a candidate opposed to the Iraq War, yet Tasini polls 15% against HillDog’s 80%.
OK, I sent my message to give Him hell, Harry.
Tommy Yum, we are clamboring for a version of Had Enough for NM Congressional District 1. Crybooby Heather, we’ve had enough.
You know we will play it again and again. Over and over.
Pretty please?
Well, this is what you get for marginalizing yourselves.
Back awhile ago Pach wrote a post favorably commenting on what I believe is a Daou concept of a tripartate Democratic Party made up of 1. The politicians, 2. the “mainstream” and 3. the “netroots” working together to create a workable and winning Democratic party.
I commented back then that I thought it was a very bad proposal/idea/point of view. Why?
B/c I don’t consider myself or many of the people who actually contribute and participate in the netroots as anything other than “mainstream” Democratic Party members and creating a tripartite Party is really only an attempt to marginalize the netroots as some radical fringe that doesn’t really need to be listened to.
What we are getting from Harry Reid in this instance is the result of that attempt to marginalize or at least hedge. I think it is clear that Harry and other Democratic Party leaders are thus hedging their bets b/c they believe, or at least are unsure, that Lamont’s victory was an aberation that was a result of a concerted (and lucky and idiosyncratic) netroots campaign, and not a statement by the majority (i.e. “mainstream”) of Democratic Party voters on how they expect Democratic Party elected officials and/or candidates to act in the name of Democratic Party values and their constituents’/the voters’ values as their representatives.
Lamont’s victory was not an idiosyncratic event that was the result of a one time alignment of the stars caused by the netroots - it was simply the majority of Democratic voters in CT telling their party they wanted change b/c they are unsatisfied with their current representation which pays lip service, at best, to their views.
Were the netroots a factor? Yes, they were. But only b/c they did not allow themselves to be marginalized and became the mainstream.
I’ve never understood why people would accept others’ attempts to marginalize them, whether the intent of that marginalization is perceived as respectful or not, cause marginalization is not part of a winning plan; all it does is divide and weaken the party.
I believe Reid understands that, but I don’t think he believes it fully enough to get on board without reservations. It’s time he does, cause continue with the status quo ante of Democratic Party acquiescence and going along to get along doesn’t reflect the mindset of the majority of mainstream voters.
Does anyone know or can point me to the Democratic Party process for removing a member’s seniority? The only precedent I know of is Wayne Morse. And that happened after the next election — when Morse was taken off a key committee after the post-election caucus. When Wayne complained, he was taken off of all important committees byu the caucus as a whole.
So, when people say, “Strip him of his seniority!!” how does that happen? Clearly Reid alone does not have that authority — what is the process? Does anyone know?
fahrender #146 — yes, been thinking exactly that for a long time, that the outing of Valerie Plame achieved more than one objective.
As does the silencing of Sibel Edmonds.
What’s the nexus? It’s in Turkey, if you ask me; something has happened/is happening there that is the key to the entire Iran run-up and possibly the Iraq run-up before it.
EPU — very nice! Perhaps the traditional Democratic endorsements (like the UAW this week) will help the leaders of the Democratic Party see that there is very little light between traditional Democrats and the “netroots.”
PS — I love it when you display your omniscience as you did yesterday.
Imm - Thank you. And I congratulate you on your well received omniscience as well - just don’t try it all the time ;-)
Rayne @ 194
Oh Rayne, please be more specific if you are allowed to be, I am feeling very slow witted today!
DSCC and Bush–same sign.
Staying out of CT.
Pathetic.
Susan in IA@99 - One thing Risen’s book mentions, but that hasn’t been discussed much or sourced, is that we took a huge intelligence hit in Iran during the Bush years.
IIRC, the books says an email was sent to our intel assets in Iran.
Sent as a “bulk” email.
So everyone got everyone else’s email
And one of the assets was not really all”ours.”
Guess what happened.
New thread, gang.
Hugh 182:
Gee, Ned stands out like a sore thumb, doesnt he?
op99:
I like everything I’ve read about Tasini and would vote for him in a heartbeat if I was in NY!
TeddySanFran @ 189
I know, that’s why I’ve adopted Tasini in comments here - doing my little part to save democracy.
Hugh #181:
A few days ago someone posted a defense of Gore’s and Kerry’s utter lack of anything even remotely resembling testosterone during their respective, ill-fated presidential campaigns vs. How Wonderful They Are Now (that it’s too late, resulting in thousands or even millions of lives being ruined). The concept seemed to be that No One Could Have Anticipated How Ungentlemanly the Republicans Would Be, even though the Gingrich/Contract Boyz showed up and put their bad behavior on public display 6-10 years earlier.
In like manner, I’m afraid that a lot of Proud to Be a Lifelong Democrats are going to have to go through this election to internalize that it’s really the War Party vs. The Rest of Us.
It’s another nice day at the beach, and prolly more fun than banging my head on my keyboard yet again.
Dee @124: Wow!! I just called Senator Carl Levin’s Detroit office questioning his lack of support of Ned Lamont. His staffer was rude, loud and confrontational. Getting a little testy, Senator Levin?
For the record, Senator Harry Levin has not announced ANY support for Lamont. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero.
Sen. Levin’s Detroit phone is 313-226-6940.
EPU: just to clarify, the three parts of Daou’s triangle are the roots (net and grass), the estblishment party, and the establishment media. Get those three on the same page and you run the table. He argues that the GOP has held all three together for some time, to their benefit.
Daou’s crusade is to change the frames, biases and editorial choices of the estblishment media.
karen allen –
Doesn’t Levin care that the the UAW is supporting Ned? Strikes me that there is a very nice pressure point on your dear senator (or maybe that is why his aides are already so touchy).
Evil Parallel Universe @ 191
I agree with your trenchant analysis, omniscient one.
RevDeb @ 187
What do we call our Left Wing Noise Machine? They have the Wurlitzer. I think we should have The Mighty Moog hehe.
immanentize: Evidently Senator Levin doesn’t care. He doesn’t even care what his own constituents think. Wow, this is so wrong, the attitude and the actions the Dems are taking!
Wondering if Pelosi is trying to be evenhanded in this race .. she just looooves that word “evanhanded.” I will never, ever, forgive her letter to Dean… never.
Following up on imman@108 - I think it really boils down to what is going to be happening in those committees between now and Nov.
I’m not saying that a different ranking member on Collins committee - one who actually renews the demand for docs from the WH etc. would be a bad idea …
But I do think that having such a hard smack, that Lieberman will obsess over if he is re elected, needs some pros to support it over and above just the message it sends re: the Lamont campaign. I think it also would make it look like Lamont pushed for it and some people would resent that. FWIW, YMMV
-ck- @ 188
ck–he HAS openly changed party affiliation. There is a Democrat on the ballot, and it is not Joe. There is a party affiliation next to Joe’s name on the ballot, and it is not Democrat. He left. He can spin it however he wants, but he left, and there need to be some consequences.
Anyone wonder why Dems have a hard time competing against the GOP? You think if the positions were reversed the GOP would allow loserman to retain his positions?
John W: The Repugs would have kicked Lieberman’s ass the minute he announced he was running as an independent. No doubt about it.
It’s really a matter of party discipline, isn’t it? What’s the point of a Democratic party if elected officials’ behavior and allegiance don’t count? So what if there are elected Dems who are more conservative than Lieberman - that’s not the point. The point is he refused to abide by a fair and free election because it didn’t go his way, and he is jeopardizing a Democratic Senatorial seat (Lamont would win in a cake walk if Lieberman would step down) and several Dem Congressional opportunities.
I agree with the notion that allowing Lieberman to thumb his nose at his constituents and fellow members of the Dem party makes the Dem party and its leadership look weak. I doubt if the leadership of the Rep party would allow this type of behavior. And how dare the Dem party allow Lieberman to label those who voted against him in the many negative and pejorative ways that he has. What message does that send?
The Dems are allowing Lieberman to become a powerbroker - even before the election in November he is playing both sides against the middle. If he were to be elected (God forbid) he would have both the Dems and Repubs offering him all sorts of things in exchange for his support. For Lieberman, I’m sure that’s a dream come true.
dab, that was an incredible letter. Thanks.
just fired off a letter to one of the “not going to take a side” senators:
Dear Senator Levin, I have read several articles recently that indicate you have not taken a stand on whether to support Ned Lamont, the Democratic nominee for the 2006 Connecticut US Senate race. I am curious as to whether you have been informed that Sen. Lieberman is campaigning today with republicans (CT Gov. Jodi Rell and US House candidate Rob Simmons). Sen. Lieberman’s recent actions have been despicable and indicate a contempt for Connecticut voters, the Democratic party, and the democratic process. Regardless of any personal relationship you may have with Sen. Lieberman, I feel it is incumbent upon you to support the Democratic candidate, Ned Lamont. You have always been a strong Democrat and I trust that you will act on this issue in a manner that befits your record as a man of principle. I look forward to hearing from you on this important issue.
To all those whose focus is (correctly) on winning back the House and Senate:
What good will it do if the Dem leaders are such pussies that they don’t use that power for a little oversight.
It’s my biggest nightmare - we actually win back both houses and absolutely nothing changes because timid Dem leaders or afraid of seeming partisan…or offending someone…or being criticized by beltway pundits.
Harry has all the power he needs to strip Loserman of his status and if he doesn’t do it, what makes any of you think, if in a majority position, he’ll do any of the even harder things necessary to get this country going in the right direction again.
Pach - Did you make the argument about the roots and the mainstream?
I still think Daou’s tripod has one too many legs - the media.
Mary:
YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary?
:-)
Doc - yep.
I do remember when I thought LOL meant “lots of love”
It was a traumatic experience to discover I was generating laughter instead of love. ;)
EPU — I believe that far too many folks on the progressive side of the aisle have not come to terms with the facts on the ground. Perhaps it’s because they are only voting (or are incumbents) and not activist/grassroots or otherwise involved in day-to-day party activities and functions out here. To that end they are validating Harry Reid’s skewed world view.
But as Christy so succinctly put it:
Netroots are activist bloggers and their activist commenters, their readers and contributors. We are all of us voters. We have jobs, mortgages, kids, investment accounts, healthcare bills, you name it; we’re not scary creatures or bogeymen. We’re people who used to read newspapers and watch television every day for our news.
Ultimately, WE ARE CONSTITUENTS — the kind who can use a computer. We may have been marginalized in 2003, but we are not being marginalized any longer.
Howard Dean as DNC Chair? Not a fluke.
Paul Hackett’s double-digit gain on Schmidt? Not a fluke.
Ciro Rodriguez’ solid race against Cuellar? Not a fluke.
Christine Cegelis’ equally solid race against Tammy Duckworth? Not a fluke.
Francine Busby’s still-contested race against Brian Bilbray? Not a fluke.
Ned Lamont against Joe Lieberman? C’mon. Our practice finally paid off; we are empowered and better trained and networked than ever before.
Harry Reid better catch the clue train. So had every single elected Democratic official. We Democratic constituents — the ones armed with computers and toobz, a critical mass of the Democratic Party — are no longer marginalized and disenfranchised; we are taking back our party. This is not the hard left talking as the far right would have everyone believe, but Democratic wing of the Democratic party, the folks who demand that their representatives do just that. They must not only talk the talk, they must walk that walk.
Every single damned day.
Salon featured MoveOn’s Eli Pariser in 2004 after the election:
I think I need to fax this bit to Harry as a reminder of the debts incurred. Eviction notices may be served soon.
Mobiaxis #219:
Ding-ding-ding-ding!!
Winner! Winner! Winner!
rayne (#194):
when i read empty wheel’s post i noted that she didn’t say quite what i wrote. she’s so thorough and so way above my thinking ability i wondered why. maybe she’s already considered it and didn’t find it plausable.
the u.s. and turkey have had a long, long history of shared “interests”. i don’t know whether i read this somewhere or not but maybe plame got outed, in part, because what her team was on to included stuff about turkey. the complexity of the whole middle east dynamic is really mind boggling.
Evil Parallel Universe @
220
Not sure I understand your question about what argument I made and when, but the whole model Daou developed is about the media, and it’s influence in shaping the mass market political climate. That’s his whole point, his white whale, even. He brings it up all the time when we’re kicking ideas around.
You can agree or disagree with his thesis, and on the degree to which he accords a focus on establishment media its strategic primacy, but that is his focus. I’m just trying to clarify. If anything I ever wrote on the subject did not make that clear, I apologize. I seem to recall having input links to Peter’s writings, and they boil down to analysis and premise in my above comment.
I never said the party itself was made of three legs, but rather tried to convey Daou’s analysis and strategic focus. His point is to fight back on the coopting of the establishment media by the right wing, and to argue that it is not and cannot ne an entirely neutral arbiter, so our side needs to work and push back on the refs, as it were.
Since back when we last had this discussion, I think we’ve made some progress in working the refs, by the way, in part because we’ve had more success in creating our own alternate, influential media machine.
I hope that helps.
The idea of three parts of a the Dem party with the netroots/activists being a category distinct from the mainstream?
That was the question. I don’t want to write that an argument is yours if it is not.
Pachacutec @ 63:
Precisely, exactly, completely and truly. In this, and ever other challenge he confronts as the nominal Democratic Leader in the Senate.
My question about Reid’s behavior: is it cowardice, or is it complicity? In other words, is Reid a member in good standing of the lowest common denominator club, or is he just afraid to oppose — whether in his own caucus or in the Senate as a whole? That’s what none of us seem to be able to really grasp and understand (I strongly favor the member-of-the-club conclusion).
This isn’t an either/or choice. Scarecrow is right that overt and positive support for Lamont will doubtless benefit him more directly than ‘punishing’ Joe would. At the moment, however, unbelievably, we have neither overt and positive support for Lamont (I don’t count press release support in that category) nor denunciation of Lieberman, from the nominal party leadership (Reid and Schumer). The cry here is for something meaningful to emerge from this political party [see ‘Fitz You!!!’s’ #106].
If the party members can’t find it in their hearts to campaign for and finance Lamont, at least they ought to be able to remove part of the power of the threat Lieberman now poses to Lamont’s campaign, and to the campaigns of the House Democrats. That’s why the focus is on actions the caucus can take to send a message about what it means to belong to the Democratic Party in the Senate.
In sum, this is a proxy fight for the Republican vs. Democratic battle in the Senate. It is a test run to see whether a majority Democratic Senate will ever really try to oppose the Republican agenda dictated by the White House. All kinds of blocking abilities exist in the Senate - every single Senator has the power to force a 60-vote majority for passage by announcing a filibuster (there are also nomination holds and opposing unanimous consent agreements, etc.). They have not been used to block the Senate’s agenda in any meaningful way under Harry Reid. If the Democrats couldn’t be bothered to act under the absolute barrage they received from the people in opposition to the Alito nomination — when exactly will they ever be bothered to act, with the status quo intact?
So we either fight this fight now within the party, pre-election, when we might still be able to have an impact. Or we watch in horror, post-election, as the exact same behavior manifests itself all over again. Only next time, it will be to roll over for the White House’s agenda, rather than for an ex-Democrat’s sabotage. How do we request party discipline next January, if we cannot even get any now, on such an obvious, and necessary, party loyalty test before a crucial election?
fahrender — there’s a HUGE amount of news that is simply not piercing the locked-down U.S. media.
Media here is an echo chamber, only playing what the ruling junta wants us to hear.
Been talking about this issue elsewhere; note my exchange at DKos in threads. We simply don’t have all the facts, and we’re being actively thwarted in getting them.
Pach - OK. I finally figured it out. The establishment party consists of mainstream voters (at least that is what I took out of it) and the netroots is a category distinct from that.
So, my argument makes sense and does not distort yours, which is what I am trying to clarify.
Evil Parallel Universe @
227
I’ve never propelled that as a model, but now that I consider it in the way you describe, I would say this: there are activists who vote based on issues and many voters who are persuadable, who lean one way or another, who do not actually follow politics or vote on issues, but on impressions, sometimes contradictory ones. Digby discusses this just in the last day: http://digbysblog.blogspot.com.....2216552426
It is these people whose impressions are far more influenced by the narratives constructed by establishment media. These are the people Peter Daou is most concerned about, and that is why he focuses so intensely on establishment media.
So, implicitly, I can see how you can have construed my past statements to reflect something like three factions with the party, when you look at the ratio of registered democrats to those who are activist and politically informed as a subset of that group. But I never really conceived of the party, or of Peter’s triangle, in those terms.
Does that help?
Reid’s superb at maneuver, likes to fly under the radar, and takes care NOT to get ahead of his team, as any leader must do, if only in order to survive. So Harry’s hard to read. I have trouble reading Reid, not for his positions, which I think I recognize and understand, but for his TIMING. And I can’t follow his timing because I don’t know all the players in the game or the stakes of the hand(s) being played. For example, Reid could be holding Lieberman hostage in some strange way, for ends that I can’t possibly imagine. Reid’s certainly capable of doing that, and Lieberman might indeed be a hostage of some kind, if only by virtue of having lost the primary to Lamont… And here’s where I run out of ideas, be they bright, dumb, or merely perverse. And so I’ll have to wait and see. This, in fact, is what John Milton meant by his comment mentioned above, that “They also serve who only stand and wait”.
OK, it’s great to blow off steam, but i agree with those who want to keep focused on helping Ned win but also wish to keep the DCCC/DSCC’s and Congressional feet to the fire (though not in an hysterical, ranting way) to support Ned 100 percent.
Although I don’t agree with all of his politics, I think Reid has done a great job keeping the diverse Dem coalition together. Reid is hedging his bets, and although I want Lieberman drummed out on his a#& as much as anyone, it’s a smart move, for now.
Get out from behind your keyboards, donate time and money, talk to people in your community (not just the true believers - see digby post: http://digbysblog.blogspot.com.....2216552426). Be open to the dismay and disappointment that occurs when the absolute of your ideals runs into the buzzsaw of reality. “You can’t always get what you want … but if you try sometimes, you get what you need.”
Food Fight My Ass! This is for the heart & soul of the party. It’s time to purge “Republican Lite Joe”. Hell, he’s the one who left the party by running. Reid ought to stick it to him and do it now. Jesus, when is our leadership going to get some balls!
UAW members endorse Lamont: http://www.laresistance.us/blo...../index.htm
THX spazeboy…GO NED!!!
keep focused: Who the hell do you think you are telling to get out from behind our keyboards? Were you in CT working on the Lamont campaign? I was. Are you in OH working on the Brown and Stricklans campaigns? I am.
Yes. Thanks.
And Daou is still wrong :)
Response to DNC solicitation for donation:
I received Dr. Dean’s request for a contribution today. While I am willing to support the party’s efforts, I will not do so at this time because of the situation with Senator Lieberman. Mr. Lieberman has turned his back on the Democratic Party, is accepting campaign contributions from Republicans, and is campaigning today with Republican members of Congress. Despite all this, Mr. Lieberman still refers to himself as a Democrat, and retains his committee assignments and party privileges in the Senate. This is outrageous and unacceptable, and it is undermining the Connecticut Democratic candidates for Congress.
Senator Lieberman lost the nomination in a clean, fairly contested election. If he is allowed to subvert the primary process in this fashion, why should anyone take the Democratic Party seriously?
Unless and until Mr. Lieberman respects the wishes of the Democratic voters of Connecticut and withdraws from the race, or is stripped of his committee assignments and told in no uncertain terms that he has forfeited the right to call himself a Democrat, I will withold any financial support for ANY Democrat who is not supporting the party processes and Ned Lamont.
I understand that the DNC has no authority over conduct of business by Democratic Senate members, but I fully expect the DNC to condemn Senator Lieberman’s behavior and fully support the candidacy of Ned Lamont, the DEMOCRATIC candidate for Senate from Connecticut.
Sincerely
Don’t know if it will do any good, but I feel better.
Selah.
We need to keep up a blitz of e-mails, faxes, and phone calls to the DCCC, DSCC, and the DLC. That’s what I have been doing for the past few days. And e-mailing Clinton and Schumer (my senators) for good measure.
Lieberman is arrogantly and insolently giving the finger to the entire Democratic base but the Democratic leadership is not doing anything about it? Are they crazy?
I’m repeating my comments here, as this newer post refers to the previous post:
Jane,
I enjoy your site, and i am a true blue Lamont supporter, but i don’t want to become a Republican either, one who twists and distorts facts.
Can you provide a LINK or some proof that Lieberman is campaigning with republicans or else a clarification…all the blogs link to you as the source but you don’t have a link to the original source….a retraction is fine too, we all make mistakes….i do feel somewhat manipulated as MyDD got me to call DSCC. That was probably a good thing anyway, they need the pressure, but if its overblown, it makes us look bad.
thanks
Peter
Madison,WI
Dan Gerstein’s say-so in a soggy paper sack is worth one soggy paper sack.
And that, to quote the Enlightened Master, is all I have to say about that.
Peter, MyDD has also verified this.
Oh, and Peter (who I am going to assume is not a concern troll): You must not have visited Google News in the past, oh, four hours or so.
Here’s the scoop::
There you go.
Phoenixwoman:
I’m glad you don’t assume that i’m a troll, certaily there is room for clarification before one even thinks such a thought……geez i hardly ever post but i’m a strong consumer of the liberal blogs and i enjoy them a lot and i just wanted clarification..and if you found a source great, i’m happy to know that..there should be a link at FDL rather than having to seach on Google news…and you must not have been on Daily Kos where a recommended diary is discussing this very issue of possibly, and i emphasize possibly, blowing this out of proportion. If it is not blown out of proportion and LIeberman truly is campaigning with republicans then i couldn’t be more happy to have that confirmation rather than exaggeration.
“What the hell, Harry”? T which I say: What the hell, J.H?
Not a single democrat withdrew their endorsement of the Liebster on the day he announced his intention to bolt the party if he lost the primary. On the contrary: Boxer and B. Clinton each campaigned for Jo Jo afterwards. (Approximately) a half dozen senators have pledged to continue their support, ten or so remain on the fence. That’s a big chunk of the democratic delegation. You surely don’t believe Reid can act arbitrarily in this matter, do you?
The question you should be asking is what would happen if Reid insisted that J.L. be stripped of those assignments. How far would the treachery of that ‘big chunk’ extend? How many stand prepared to bolt the party altogether, and announce as republicans, if Joe was mau-mau’d on account of the Connecticut rabble? Shocking thought, isn’t it? But not that shocking. Of course, all this should lead to my “Get Real About That Party” spiel, but I don’t have it in me today. But you are asking the wrong question.
Well, reading Jane’s article, and the comments here, there is only one thing we must do!
THAT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT JOE LIEBERMAN DOES NOT WIN IN NOVEMBER !
Please keep doing what you have all been doing.
(Jane, come back and spend the last few weeks here, you were an inspiration. ) All of you write letters to editors, particularly letters@courant.com. Send your spare change to Ned, don’t assume he can just keep throwing in his own money. Do whatever it takes to make sure Joe does NOT win, and then the matter of his seats is a Moot point .
As far as I can see it, this story thus far is lacking sufficiant evidence. I am a strong Lamont supporter but someone’s jumping the gun here. Beating up Reid over a huge unconfirmed claim ain’t cool either.
A top diary at Kos is reporting:
“private meeting over how to keep a sub base open has suddenly turned into a campaign rally where Lieberman is promoting the election of republican candidates?
Since when has a policy meeting where (for the love of god!) people from the opposing political party attended been considered a campaign rally for that opposing party?”
Democrats don’t eat their own young so much as the Republicans. I think I sort of agree with leaving Lieberman alone. He actually seems to be his own worst enemy.
My hope would be that the Democrats treat him as superfluous, being that he lost the primary. His fantasy is that the Republican voters will flock to him because of his stance on the war. Wouldn’t it be absolutely great if the Republicans didn’t want Joe either?
I have a theory on this. A deal has been cut with Lieberman by the Republicans/Rove. That is why the chairman of the RNC and the Republican president won’t support the Republican nominee.
Judas Lieberman continues to run as an independent saying he will support Democratic positions. Meanwhile, he gets Republican money, help and GOTV efforts. In return, once re-elected, Rummy resigns, Bush appoints Lieberman SecDef. Republican Jodi Rell appoints a “real” Republican to take his place.
Rove & Company pick up a seat, Judas get a cabinet position, the people of CT are screwed….
“..Rummy resigns, Bush appoints Lieberman SecDef..”.
Mike in San Antonio: You’ve got to be kidding. Why on earth would Jo Jo resign from a guaranteed, 6 year term in the senate to assume command of the Titanic?
Sonoma @ 245:
I’d like to know the answer to that question. And I’d like to know that answer before the next crucial vote approaches in the United States Senate. In other words, I would like to know exactly who I am fighting.
If we do not in fact have a Democratic political party, why the hell should we continue to pretend that we do? [Especially when such a make-believe state of affairs is exactly the way the comfortably unaccountable, complicit incumbents like it and want it, the best interests of the American people and the state of the nation be damned.]
So I email Sen Clinton about this mess, and I get this silly form letter back. I am tired of Sentors acting like the rest of the country outside their states does not matter. Way to court my 2008 vote, Hillary:
“Dear Friend:
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns with me
via e-mail. I hope you will understand that, because of the volume of
e-mails I receive from residents of New York State, I cannot at this time
respond to messages received from residents of other states. I encourage
you to contact your U.S. senators if you have an issue or concern that
needs immediate attention. You can access your senators electronically by
visiting http://www.senate.gov/contacti....._state.cfm for a listing
of their contact information. If you are still interested in learning
more about the work I am doing on behalf of New York State, I hope you
will continue to monitor my work through my website at
http://clinton.senate.gov.
Sincerely,
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton
New York State”
To astronautagogo and Mickey -
I have said it before.. even if the Dems win one or both houses, they will have a tough fight getting progressive legislation through. Party discipline will be key. Lie-berman is a loose cannon, and I think it is best for the Democratic agenda to kick him to the curb and soldify party discipline.
I was solicited yesterday by the DSCC and told the young man I am supporting individual Democratic candidates, and that I would not support the weak Senate leadership until Lieberman is stripped of his seniority. I said the leadership has been unable to make up its mind, to do the right thing. He acted like he had not heard my position expressed before during his calls.