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Dan Froomkin has a good summary of the "same song, second verse" campaign going on among neocons in the Bush Administration with regard to Iran. Emptywheel sums it up, thusly, at NextHurrah:
Basically, the report appears to be the first salvo in a fall campaign to justify a war against Iran (with Andy Card gone, they’ve perhaps forgotten that you don’t introduce a new "product" in August). Only this time, they’re not just presenting us with shitty intelligence and telling us we have to go to war (though the report does serve that purpose too). They’re also saying, "the intelligence is shitty, so we cannot negotiate and therefore have to go to war."
Is it me, or did Bill Kristol just get all tingly with excitement?
The NYTimes reports on the issue today, but fails to catch what Dafna Linzer does in the WaPo:
The 29-page report, principally written by a Republican staff member on the House intelligence committee who holds a hard-line view on Iran, fully backs the White House position that the Islamic republic is moving forward with a nuclear weapons program and that it poses a significant danger to the United States. But it chides the intelligence community for not providing enough direct evidence to support that assertion….
Jamal Ware, spokesman for the House intelligence committee, said three staff members wrote the report, but he did not dispute that the principal author was Frederick Fleitz, a former CIA officer who had been a special assistant to John R. Bolton, the administration’s former point man on Iran at the State Department. Bolton had been highly influential in the crafting of a tough policy that rejected talks with Tehran.
Look, it’s our buddy Fred Fleitz, now working for the House Intel Committee (read: now with his ass planted firmly there to keep an eagle eye on Pete Hoekstra for the Cheney/Addington faction) who was the person who wrote the report. Shocking. Shocking I tell you.
And sloppy reporting by the NYTimes to miss this element, given Fleitz’ heightened profile after the Valerie Plame Wilson outing and his former hatchet man status as John Bolton’s former number two when Bolton was at State. Especially given Fleitz record as a hardliner when it comes to Iran — and the questions of his involvement in some other odd moments in Bolton history.
But how much can we count on anything Fleitz says in the report after what, I’m sure, was an exhaustive investigation involving a gathering of all evidence and facts — because he’s not the sort of fellow who would ever cook the books to support an assertion and and outcome without the underlying facts, right?.:
[The report's] authors did not interview intelligence officials.
Oh yeah, no stone unturned. No assertion unchallenged. Every fact backed up in triplicate. Not so much. Jeebus, do these people learn nothing?
Laura Rozen, guest blogging at Washington Monthly, has more.
(The cartoon above is a Wasserman, who usually appears in the Boston Globe. I found this one on another website but they didn’t have a link back to where it was found in the archives. It was altogether too perfect for this deja vu, wouldn’t you say?)
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Nedth?
frist
I’m thinking the Democrats need to feature “Won’t Get Fooled Again” rather prominently in their commercials…
Fitz :)
I just threw up a little in my mouth.
‘Facts are stupid things‘, Redd.
;>)
[The report’s] authors did not interview intelligence officials.
That really is brilliant. Not even a pretense of having done anything other than pull it out of their own asses. If the Democrats roll over for war again, they *deserve* to get their asses beat.
Okay, time to scrounge some early dinner before my flight. Later, y’all.
Hezbollah’s successful effort that prevented Israel’s tanks and army from advancing into Lebanon no doubt has convinced Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their neocon buddies that we are going to have to use tactical nuclear weapons when we invade Iran before the national elections in November. No, I’m not crazy. They are, and so a new round of the same old bullshit lies begins, again.
Hezbollah stashed their weapons and ammunition in an elaborate network of underground tunnels, a strategy that they copied from the Iranians. Like the Iranians, they also camouflaged the entrances to the tunnels so that they could not be detected in satellite photographs, or by pilots flying reconnaisance missions. Smart bombs turned into stupid bombs because Israel didn’t know where the entrances were and the bombs couldn’t penetrate far enough into the ground to damage the tunnels. Hezbollah fighters popped up all over the place like prairie dogs, fired their weapons and anti-tank missiles, and disappeared back into their tunnels before the Israelis could figure out where they were and return fire. One Hezbollah sharpshooter killed two Israeli soldiers with two shots from 500 yards, for example.
Now a rational person would realize that the Iranian defense system will be at least as formidable. Such a person also would realize that the military option no longer makes sense, particularly given the depleted state of our military that is caught between warring factions in Iraq’s deepening civil war. A rational person would do everything possible to repair, heal, and strengthen relationships with our former allies in order to get their support to back a negotiated settlement with Iran that recognizes its legitimacy and right to use nuclear power for peaceful purposes subject, of course, to regular inspections by the United Nations. Diplomatic sanctions, including trade embargos supported by our previous allies, would be applied to exclude Iran from participating in the world economy if Iran refused to agree to terms. This “sane” approach worked with Iraq in the sense that its economy foundered and it could not develop weapons of mass destruction.
All humans no matter their skin color, culture, or religious beliefs must learn to accept each other and cooperate to clean-up this planet and end global warming because time is running out. War is not an option.
Unfortunately, this criminal administration isn’t rational and the only lesson that it has learned from Israel’s defeat by Hezbollah is the need to use tactical nuclear weapons to destroy Iran’s underground defenses. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their neocon buddies are determined to play Whack a Mole with nuclear bombs, no matter the consequences, because as Paul Wolfowitz famously said a few years ago, “We can.”
The question that we have to answer is what the hell are we going to do to stop these madmen?
I would indeed. Gaddammit.
Why does anyone believe, for even a moment that Iran doesn’t already have nukes? Weapons were very likely made available to them in the mid- 90s after the break-up of the USSR. To think that they passed on them seems…naive. I fully believe that if Tehran really wanted to “wipe Israel off the map” via nuclear device, they already could have done it.
Witchywoman here. My “leave a reply” dialog box just presented me with someone else’s name and email account, so I’m commenting to see whose name shows up on the post!
$Deity, I hope we Americans aren’t stupid enough to fall for this horseshit again.
And it’s using the other name! Oh, Tech Support! There appears to be a problem here.
One Hezbollah sharpshooter killed two Israeli soldiers with two shots from 500 yards, for example.
If that’s true, it was some fine shooting. And elaborate tunneling or not, it’s often hard to tell the direction of incoming fire if there’s insufficient volume and multiple possible fields.
ElectricGrendel @ 5
Vurp!
:-)
The neocon strategy
You lefties listen to Freddy Fleitz. He knows what he’s talking about when he says that Iran is a threat to Isr….I mean, the great democratic country of America, the best, the wisest, the most beautiful (OK, enough suckholing. ed.) United States of America.
Iran’s gonna getcha! Boo!
The marketing campaign has been underway for a couple of weeks. Here’s Greenwald’s summary of the Newsweek piece written by Michael Gerson, who is Bush’s “axis of evil” speechwriter.
Tingly? Breaking Blue reports Bill Kristol as saying war may come with Iran sooner than anyone expects.
Matt Yglesias pretty much sums up my own thinking about this report.
Dr. Bong @ 16
…at least it wasn’t a shart
We were talking about this yesterday(?), but I don’t recall whether anybody’s posted this link:
[Iraq veterans’] Group: Bush can reinstate the draft, or lose the Iraq War
And yet they’re thirsty for more?
this country can’t afford any more Fleitz of fancy
Any photos of Droopy Joe traveling in CT today with Republicans Jody Rell and Rob Simmons?
Please, oh, please, let there be some.
From the (overworked) Department of Make Shit Up.
Thats where this one comes from.
Fuckers are like hamsters on crack in an excersize wheel when it come to finding ways to shove war with Iran.
I have a T-shirt from back in the day when we were dicking around with Iran. It’s still relevant today.
The message is simple enough that even Stupie should get it;
FUCK IRAN
Get us the hell out if Iraq and the ME and let ‘em have at it.
Look on the bright side. At least Judy Miller will get laid again.
tommy yum @ 23
That’s not the bright side if I have to think about it. Ewwwww…
EPU’d, for *ilson:
I guess we finally know their exit stategy: send the troops over the border into Iran.
If this administration was so damned worried about Iran, why did they “out” Valarie Plame, whose main work at the time was on intel about Iran’s nuclear capabilities? Never put security before political revenge!
liberalis @ 26
ouch!
HAW! Good one, Biny.
I don’t understand.
How can the intelligence on Iran be bad?
Karl Rove just said that the President listens in on all the IMPORTANT terror calls these days.
So confusing.
The thing to do is to start putting up the statements about Iran with statements about Iraq to remind the 28 people who still refuse to believe we were bamboozled into the Iraq war that they’re working on Phase Two, and all they had to do was change “Q” to “N.”
Why anyone would believe ANYTHING these people say about ANYTHING is beyond my ability to comprehend. They will ignore reality, they will ignore the best military and diplomatic experts, they will ignore the military readiness issues, they will ignore the inability of Israel to conquer Hezbollah, they will ignore what is happening in Iraq, they will ignore the drain on the Treasury, they will ignore the possible ramifications, they will ignore any calls for plans or strategies. They can see nothing but the delusion of the master plan – and they have another two years in office.
They are insane, and that’s a point that should be hammered home loud and long.
Who’s whose poodle now, Boooooshie?
Is Fred really related to Heidi Fleiss or he is just a pimp like her?
Valerie Plame would have been one of those awful government employees with a conscience and a backbone, who would have refused to be bamboozled into playing the “cook the Intelligence” game.
Adrienne @ 27
Somebody last thread (wish I could recall who) has quite a good theory on this, Adrienne: that the Plame gambit was a Tidy Twofer, in that it not only “punished” Joe Wilson but also rid them of a later-apt-to-be-problematic voice of caution against this ultimate plan of theirs to “liberate” Iran. (’Course, the whole timetable’s now about three years behind where they meant it to be by now … but they’re nothing if not stubborn.)
punaise @ 25
as a Hoosier, I take note of your California law. Today I also bought up a defensive URL name for my Congresslady — just in case.
If we attack Iran, then they, and or someone else will attack Israel. Since Israel didn’t do all that well in Lebanon with conventional weapons and ground action, Israel will probably go a little nuclear. Perhaps this is the plan. And if it (nuclear) happens… it won’t matter much. I just can’t visualize China, Russia, India, Pakistan and others sitting back without joining the atomic fray. If I lose anymore slumber at night over these sorts of things, I simply won’t be sleeping. Can humans adapt to life without snooze?
*ilson – as far as I know CA hasn’t declared you persona non grata yet….
punaise @ 38
But mind you, *ilson, pun knows nauthink.
the “same song, second verse” campaign
With apologies to Peter Noone:
I’m lyin’ through my teeth, I am
Lyin’ through my teeth, I am, I am
I’ve been spewin’ out the ol’ B-S
I’ve led this country into quite a mess
I’m really good at mendacity
I couldn’t tell the truth if I was paid
I’m the king of inveracity
Lyin’ through my teeth, I am.
Second verse, same as the first!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
you don’t snooze, they ruse
*ilson is always persona gratis.
Mary @ 30
Didn’t the NSA lose its ability to do SIGINT vs. Iran when a certain Ahmed Chalabi told them they’d better improve their crypto?
*ilsona gnawin’ gratis
Christy — I’d read the WaPo article earlier, but in the Boston Globe. That version is shorter. Notice that in the Globe version, the second para you quote, referring to Fleitz and Bolton, does not appear. Instead, the authorship discussion in the BG version ends with this:
http://www.boston.com/news/wor…..se_report/
I suspect that papers across the country that use WaPo articles also got the shorter version.
So this is a good front page to spotlight to reporters all over the country.
al-Scooter at 45 — a-yup. That would be the rumor.
(CNN) Ray Nagin: “You guys in New York can’t get a hole in the ground fixed, and it’s five years later. So let’s be fair here.”
Also: Santy now trails Casey by 5 points.
lotus @ 39
but, but, but I listen to coffee pots!
For some Iranian perspective and some debunking of the admin and neocon verbal vomit, may I suggest the Wapo today and the chat with this man:
.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..nav=topnav
The difference between Iraq and Iran is that Iran does have a nuclear program. No questions. So does Pakistan – where Bin Laden hangs out.
Well Mr. Hoekstra?
Off topic, but:
New Haven registrar allows Lieberman to retain his Democratic registration.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
going “a little nuclear”? Israel is only 20 times the size of the city of Indianapolis — just a ‘little nuclear’ onto Israel would obliterate it. Israel should be cautious about those 200 nukes they wield…
al-Scooter @ 43
Surely you don’t mean that nice man who came to give the AEI speech as a guest of Rice and Cheney and despite the outstanding FBI investigation…
All I can hope for is mass resignations at the Pentagon and in the military, along with mass resignations from DOD and CIA – and for loud protestations against being strong-armed into another war. Some might say that that will leave the good little lapdogs to do Bush’s bidding, but I disagree.
I think a Democratic Congress could help stop the steamroller, but it worries me that Bush and his neo-con handlers might be stupid enough to try to get something started before the Dems could take over.
Grrrr…
Realist @ 40
Bravo!
Check the chart on page 15 of the report that Fleitz wrote. The chart purports to illustrate the ranges of Iranian ballistic missiles. Four concentric circles are depicted–all which appear to demonstrate missiles being launched from Bahrain–at least they appear to be launched outside of Iran. Also, the missile depicted with the longest range by over twice as far as the next missile apparently does not exist. The Shahab-4 had development shelved earlier this year. More hype.
Mehlman on Wolfie – my ears r bleeding
Yes, quite troo. But recall: if you rooze; you looze.
Besides al-Scoots, Rove has already said all we have to do is listen – understanding what we hear doesn’t really matter.
Sheez, sometimes I feel like the NSA is the only one really listening to me.
Did they ever get more friends to sign up for their social network page?
Mary @ 50
Iran is starting the process of uranium separation, a precursor to the possibility of atom bombs. Pakistan has already done all that and has exploded test atom bombs…
btw, Pakistan has a population of 200,000,000 — an awful lot of folk, eh?
All I can hope for is mass resignations at the Pentagon and in the military, along with mass resignations from DOD and CIA – and for loud protestations against being strong-armed into another war. Some might say that that will leave the good little lapdogs to do Bush’s bidding, but I disagree. …
Yeh, that’s what I’m hanging the remaining fragments of my hat on too, Anne.
I have it on mute, twolf1– my eyes have sprung a red leak though. Better go clean up before the contractor arrives to bid on a job.
These long six years have been very messy– thank goodness for hydrogen peroxide.
al-Scooter @
45
Yes, Chalabi blew it. What ever happened to that investigation? Oh, never mind.
*ilson #52:
I’ve a feeling that the relationships across these contries aren’t quite as clear-cut as we’ve been led to believe. When you have Israel selling sensitive miltech (which IIRC we supplied them) to the PRC, I’m not willing to speculate on how the calculi would go. So IMO, it’s like 1914 except that we don’t really know who all of the Allies are and all of the Entente might be.
Other than that, everything’s peachy.
twolf1 @ 57
Is he asking him about Adapt to Win? *g*
angie @ 49
Geez, is that all? He needs to sit down and listen to the Moustache of Understanding, get himself a real education.
twolf1 @ 57
That’s because he plays both the shrillest and lowest notes on the Mighty Wulitzer. We need an unplugged version.
Mary @ 59
I’d rather hoped to get that last bite of sandwich down before I saw this, but the resulting salami hairball was more than worth it!!
Don’t give up too quickly. As long as we have someone reliable running CIA . . .
KennyBoi Mehlman is looking remarkably haggard …
Why does mehlman always get an open forum?
wolf – as chairman of the RNC – how does it feel to abandon the CT race?
lambert strether @
53
There are no words.
but, but we got reeeeal good intel from the MEK
http://rawstory.com/news/2006/….._0413.html
The Nefarious Leslie @ 66
Big ol’
707
goes out to NefLes!
wolf- have u given up on CT?
Mehlmen – We are focusing our resources on candidates that have a chance.
wolf – r u backing either Lieberman or Lamont?
Mehlmen – I, I, I, I am leaving it to the people of the state to decide.
when asked about Joe and Ned, KennyBoi was actually stammering — and he is usually so glib !
Republican Strategy: Caught in Iran
War with Iran is fine so long as the first boots on the ground there are being worn by members of the Bush family.
twolf1 @ 75
So, who gets to decide in those other states?
That WAPO article also had this to say:
“”We want to avoid another ’slam dunk,’ ” Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.) said in an interview yesterday, explaining why the staff report was made public before it had been approved by the full committee.” (emphasis mine).
So let’s see here:
1. Report is singularly written by a former Amb. Bolton hatchet man, a hard-liner on Iran.
2. Report didn’t interview any Intelligence officials.
3. Report was made public by Repug committee chair without approval by the full committee or any Democrat.
4. Repugs have a habit of lying before elections to get us into wars.
5. And oh by the way, another election is coming up.
Guess we should swallow this whole! After all, the American people know who they can trust!
lotus @ 74
Agreed, lotus. LOL. Wonder if the gentleman can translate dubya for us and the Hezbollians.
Badwater 78 – the twins need to wear BDUs and eat MREs
Mary @ 69
Oh, that’s right — Yes’m, I feel 1,000% bettah now, thankee.
oofda @ 56
Not only that, but Matthew Yglesias, sitting in for Josh Marshall, says that the graphic shows the missiles being fired from … Kuwait.
*ilson46201 @ 70
This sounds like a job for Millineyman and his colleagues. I bet they could come up with an appropriate costume to buck him up. Or darkblack…
This article is a fairly short read.
H/T to TPM for the link.
Definitely read the last paragraph…..
Bad Intelligence–But in Which Direction?
Since the topic of the day seems to be right-wing anger at insufficiently panicky intelligence assessments on Iran, it might be worth looking at how bad U.S. intelligence on Iran is–and in which direction it’s been wrong.
Anthony Cordesman and Khalid al-Rodhan have helpfully assembled a catalog of intelligence community predictions about Iran’s nuclear weapons program in their excellent book, Iran’s Weapons of Mass Destruction: The Real and Potential Threat. Here are just a few assessments:
snip
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org…..direction/
“same song, second verse” … as it comes along, it’ll just get worse.
The real question for Mehlman should have been:
Who do you think will support Republican policies and President Bush better – Lieberman or Schlesinger?
CNN – J.C. Watts just called Plan B “an abortion the day after”
Does anybody have a linky for whatever Howard Dean said about Katrina today? Before I hadda pick myself up off the flo’ again (h/t NefLes), I looked up and glimpsed him briefly on muted CNN . . .
A version of the question Hillary posed to Rumsfeld is the question that should be asked over and over and over again, of every chickenhawk and Iran War cheerleader: “You’ve been wrong on pretty much every aspect of the war, from the intelligence all the way up to where we are today; why should we believe what you’re saying now?”
twolf1 @ 89
At what point will abstinence become “abortion the day before?”
al-Scooter @ 85
Right up beardy’s alley too, so we better call him in on it.
Mary @ 92
At what point will sex be made illegal? When will women go back to being chattel (property)?
*ilson46201 @
72
perhaps he was up all night washing dishes in Rockey’s trailer…
At what point will abstinence become “abortion the day before?”
I think that it already happened – about 6 years ago.
See The DeciderTM has a plan, it’s a plan ya see, he knows what’s going on and y’all don’t, he’s gonna take care of all the nonbelievers ya see.
See, he’s determined to strike, because he hears voices — God’s voice — and no body can overrule The Big Decider in the SkyTM. Ya unnerstand?
Well, there goes my claim to fame. I knew Clyde Tombaugh, the discoverer of Pluto (which just got downsized to a non-planet), cause his son and I used to play baseball as kids in New Mexico. He was the most famous person I’d ever met, at least until Christy at daily Kos. Now it’s just Christy. Thank god for Christy.
Badwater @ 78
boots on the ground ain’t the plan for this war. this war’s plan is “ground-into-glass.”
Totally OT, but Hunter needs to be an honorary Firedog for this post at Kos
Warning: no liquids while reading…
Republican Cheerleaders:
Gimme an M*E*K
Gimme a P*K*K
Add up the K-s and whadda we got?
YEAH YEAH GO TEAM GO!
lotus @ 93
“I love it when a plan comes together!”
Anne @ 93
Yes. And Hillary is also a chicken-hawk. Me thinks.
al-Scooter @
87
The Chairman has no clothes, as far as I’m concerned (NSFW)
;>)
look, THIS IS AMERICA’S CHANCE!
now we can EXPOSE the PNAC
we can show WITH NO DOUBT this was all planned
this might be the bell that wakes Americans to the fact that their government is under seige
darkblack #106:
Gosh, that was… realistic!
uh oh — Jeff Greenfield gives credit to the internets with getting rid of incumbents…
shhhhhhhhhh.
The Nefarious Leslie @ 84
YOu know how it is – all those ME countries look alike …
Anne @ 94
Not soon enough, if Scalito has his way.
al-Scooter @ 108
One might even say … Natural.
;>)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 103
And every one of the incumbents who are still hanging in there with the idea that we “had to” invade Iraq and we have to “finish the job” ought to be on full notice that their own jobs are going to be in serious jeopardy if they roll over and go along with any of this Iran crap.
Anne @
96
At what point will saying ‘no’ to sex = abortion, the day before…
darkblack @
106
I’m astonished to see the NSFW rating, having clicked-over to it with great expectation…. darkblack, you’re such a tease!
Mad Dogs @ 82
You know, if you read Suskind’s book you might come to the conclusion that all you need to avoid another “slam dunk” is a group of people who won’t lie to Bob Woodward— or a journalist who will mention some serious disputes as to whether the comment was ever made.
Well now, musicsleuth, I was about to protest,
“But honorary Firedog is extremely-high praise … ,”
yet now that I’ve been there and back, I do see exactly what you mean. Huzzah and thank you.
Gibson will FIGHT for the right of white women to keep having sex, with no birth control.
They better watch out. The guy who successfully fought the fight against the war on Christmas isn’t someone they want to pick a fight with.
Jani @
11
Because they’d be nuts to have them, just as Saddam would have been nuts to have had all the stuff he was accused of. Not just nuts, but stupid too.
Why? Think about it.
WMD are expensive
You can’t use them
If you use them against Israel, the west will stomp you into the stone age
If you use them against other Arab nations, the rest of them will stop you into the stone age
If you try to use them against internal dissidents, you will (because they don’t “aim” well) stomp yourself into the stone age
They can be used against you (all sorts of scenarios for this).
You can get all the benefits with none of the risks by simply making people think you might have them
This was the standard logic until President Strangelove broke the stalemate by ignoring logic, facts, and stuff like that and attacking anyway.
–MarkusQ
Wow, just wow.
So three Republican (or as good as) staff members, working on behalf of the Executive Branch, write a report in the name of the House Intelligence Committee, which is off on summer recess/vacation, and it gets issued, ipso facto, as an endorsed product of the Representatives who sit on the committtee?
I guess since the Republicans hold a majority of seats in the committee (and since no Congressional Republican dares think for him or herself), the staff has carte blanche to speak as, and act as, the committee as long as Hoekstra gives the okay? Jane Harman (and Patricia Madrid): Jump on this, and jump on it hard. BOYCOTT that report, and then write your own. What a mockery of a democratic process.
Are there photographs anywhere of this Fred Fleitz propaganda artist? If so, they need to be plastered everywhere, along with the mugs of Cheney, Addington, Bolton and all the other little evil elves.
musicsleuth @ 112
If your point is that it all comes down to just saying no to sex, or that the only people who have need of Plan B are women too lazy and irresponsible to use birth control, I’m surprised you are enlightened enough to have access to a computer and appreciate what technology has afforded you the ability to do.
I don’t have time to deal with this kind of ignorance, which makes this your lucky day, because I feel a rant of epic proportions lurking.
me to me @ 107
Why doesn’t someone in the MSM ever talk about the PNAC agenda?. It really doesn’t require a lot of effort.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
Anne @ 113
And Senator Clinton is afraid to debate her opponent Jonathan Tasini who in a recent poll has garnered 13%. The Senator IS wily.
TeddySanFran @
115
We must remember the tiny tots, Teddy.
Besides, ‘Big Tent’ actually means ‘Little Basket’ in Republican Newspeak anyway.
Nothing to see there
;>)
Hey, you parchin’ Texans, I see they’s a new TD just formed N of Venezuela. Y’ont me to flap my li’l arm-petals rill hard ‘n’ see kin I push over around Brownsville fer ya?
Markus Q #119:
Of course, the enterprising tyrant that can’t afford to be without nukes could simply drop by A.Q Kahn’s Armageddon Emporium and Malt Shop and pick up all the megatonnage he needed without all the muss, fuss and bother of having his own nuclear program.
What, the Musharref of Nottingham closed him down? Not if you knock three times and say, “Ahmed sent me.”.
al-Scoots knoweth all, y’all.
“push it over”
simply drop by A.Q Kahn’s Armageddon Emporium and Melt Shop
Anne @ 96
When will a Republican politician find out what Plan B is before he bestowes his opinions about it on us?
lotus,
Start flappin’ hard, please. Push eet on up to Travis County, wontcha?
Speaking of Texans — ye gods, when is that Hope of ours ever gonna wake up and come visit?
lotus @ 127
Wow, my afternoon just improved a whole bunch!
Cujo359 130 – When will a Republican politician find out what Plan B is before he bestowes his opinions about it on us?
Watts didn’t seem to care what it really was. He said no matter what, he will see it as abortion because it happens “the day after,” not the day before.
meta @
74
Oh yes, there are! But I will maintain my civility…
Cujo359 @ 130
Don’t forget that Senator Macaca holds stock in Barr, the manufacturer of Plan B.
(flap flap flapflapflapflapflapflopflupflipflelpflpfl…)
punaise @ 129
Picky, picky, picky!
(I wonder if it’s too late to go back and edit…nah!)
Hoo.
Watts also broke wind and the news by informing the world that he was “once an embryo” when the conversation turned to stem cell research.
‘ere, flowah, that was hard work….
lotus, you most lovely bloom –
Muchas gracias from the hot-as-all-fuck Lone Star state. I’ll let you know when I spy rain clouds.
CNN – Israel has acquired 2 submarines from germany (or 2 german subs? not sure if they were FROM Germany) – both capable of carrying/launching nooks
One could get the feeling the neo-cons dont
care about how many Americans die or are maimed
by their war lust. If Cheney is behind any of
this “shape the intel to fit neo-cons desire”
he should be exposed on most harsh of terms.
This bunch really seems to want a “remember
the Maine” moment to unleash their crazyass
invasion of Iran. They ought to be fully and
completely exposed for the charlatans they are.
Trying to watch Hardball can be very exasperating. Matthews just let Ed Gillespie, former RNC Chair-clown, run out the clock with Gillespie’s verbose drivel. Consequently, nothing of import was said. Why do I watch this stuff? Biden is coming up to bat next. I can’t take it.
Thanks, Teddy, but right now I really need a Co-Cola.
Anne #121:
“…I feel a rant of epic proportions lurking.”
I believe the original was meant as snark, and I know today’s not the day, but anytime you’d like to favor us with an epic, just swing from the heels. More classics are always welcome!
You could have been watching Coulter on CNBC speak as an expert on taxes and tax cuts. A true dilemma.
Wolfie on CNN was just carrying a correspondent from Israel banging the drum for war on Iran quoting the Jerusalem Post editorial saying “Israel might have to do it alone.” Wolfie did not mention that he too used to work for the Jerusalem Post (which I believe is owned by Rupert Murdoch of Faux News fame)
Biden is coming up to bat next. I can’t take it.
Cue the beanball.
On second thought, if you wanted to scramble his brains, you’d have to hit him in the seat of his pants.
ACK. She’s still on. Fortunately, I never have the sound turned up.
dab from CT at 122 says:
Oh no…who spilled the beans?
That’s supposed to be a secret! If the rest of the world finds out, we’re gonna be in trouble!
David Horovitz (editor of the Jerusalem Press) is being stroked by the wolfboy on cnn.
both are licking their chops wrt Iran and hyping the danger and downplaying Iraq.
yuck.
OT:
How does one lift and separate Church and State, anyway?
…From this source, via Raw Story:
…Keep shaking those ta-ta’s for Jay-zuss!
;>)
As a matter of policy, I don’t link to RW sites, but Instaplunder is bagging on Sen. Straighttalk for bagging on Junior…
Wolfie did not mention that he too used to work for the Jerusalem Post (which I believe is owned by Rupert Murdoch of Faux News fame)
Is that who
ConradBlackLord Black of Crossharbour sold it to, *ilson?thanks lotus!
don’t be stingy Hilde! we Williamson county folks are mighty parched as well *g*
headin’ out to our first football game of the season (105 (?) deg. – our son is starting ) -
GO HIPPOS !!!
catch y’all on the flip
twolf1 @ 134
What a moron. Most sperm don’t make it anyway. Plan B just increases the odds that none of them do.
um, that would be the Jerusalem Post, not Press.
salt and light? Katherine Harris, so dium dumb…
lotus @ 155
Wikipedia
On November 16, 2004, Hollinger sold the paper to Mirkaei Tikshoret Ltd., a Tel Aviv-based publisher of Israeli newspapers. CanWest Global Communications, Canada’s biggest media concern, had announced an agreement to take a 50 percent stake in the Jerusalem Post after Mirkaei buys the property.
db 155: now THAT’s what I call NSFW!
Cujo359 @ 159
Yep. It was the classic wingnut we-don’t-care-about-facts–I-disregard-any-evidence-and-I-believe-what-I-want stance he took. On Plan B and stem cells.
TeddySanFran @ 163
Keep it on the DL, Teddy…You too might be in line for…Dare I say it?…
;>)
Evil Parallel Universe @ 147
if you want to see a rant on Coulter,
head over to The Rude Pundit.
PPE* required.
* Personal Protective equipment. ie: goggles.
http://www.rudepundit.blogspot.com/
OT and gag a maggot:
lieberman to Glenn Beck:
http://electioncentral.tpmcafe…..ld_war_iii
OT -Diebold machines in Alaska fail
What does Coulter do in the paralell universe, EPU?
************
Geography. Not my subject – which may explain why I have had Republican moments in my background.
We had Rumsfeld confused about the location of the WMDs – around Tikrit, north, south, east and west.
Fleitz is having trouble with Kuwait and Iran.
kos has a diary up about this part of the Boehner interview in the Cincy paper:
Idiots asking questions without asking for any facts
If only bad geography was all there was.
HUH? Which part of “Moving onto the war in Iraq, how would you assess the current situation there?” mentioned “the problem with terrorism?”
Well, he goes on to explain more:
Wow – makes you really wonder where people would ever get the idea that the “they” that attacked us on 9/11 has anything to do with the “they” that live in Iraq.
And you see him echoing the Van Taylor: Fighting them in Iraq, so we don’t have to here – talking point.
Umm did Boehner miss out on the fact that on his President’s watch – they WERE in NYC and Washington?
Did he miss the fact that it’s Three Dog Night that’s never been to Spain – not al-Qaeda?
This is why I’m done worrying about what’s fair anymore.
twolf1 @
168
“No one could’ve anticipated…”
twolf1 @ 165
Smelling salts — queeeek!
…musta been those pesky toobz.
Nothing – I’m in this universe when I watch cable.
More Boehner – now on NSA:
Who knew? Congress can change the “law of the constitution.” Maybe we’ll get that hereditary king thing going after all.
This is why I’m done worrying about what’s fair anymore.
If “fair” were the question, Bonehead and them woulda been trying to pick the feathers outta their tar long ere this . . .
Israel gets two new submarines. Can anyone tell me where the money for these subs came from?
What does Israel make its money on? I know they have/had a goodish biotech industry, but what else? Arms sales?
Oh, been meaning to ask: Did “lo” ever sign off formally, or has she just disappeared? Just when I thought she was gaining ground there, too.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 176
Well, there was 9 billion missing from . . .
never mind.
Froomkin:
Once again, powerful neoconservative politicians who just know in their hearts that there is a terrible threat posed by a Middle Eastern country they have identified as part of the axis of evil are frustrated by the lack of conclusive evidence that would support a bellicose approach. So they are pressuring the nation’s intelligence community to find facts that will support their argument.
This time, that scenario is being played out right in front of our eyes. Maybe that will make a difference?
snip
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00879.html
here be a link – Israel adds 2 nuclear-capable submarines
Israel gets two new submarines.
das Max Boot
(or is it dos, as in uno, dos, tres)
EPU @ 132 -
I have come to believe that AIPAC, and similarly-aligned lobbyists (because that is what they are) have an inordinate effect on both the Republican and the Democratic Parties. The latest indirect evidence for me was the indifference by the Democrats to the now Amnesty International-defined “war crimes” just carried out by Israel against the people of Lebanon – harming the innocent and guilty alike with indiscriminate and reckless destruction.
I, however, happen to strongly believe that the majority of Jewish Americans do not support nor underwrite AIPAC’s agenda for Israel or America [there was evidence of this a year or so ago when a Jewish Conference that Madeline Albright spoke to voted to oppose the further occupation of Iraq - that group represents a majority of Jewish Americans, as I recall (or is the largest Jewish American group in the country). Their full name escapes me at the moment]. Part of AIPAC’s mission is to make sure that this inconvenient fact never becomes common knowledge or conventional wisdom. AIPAC seems to be pursuing a decidely Likud-party friendly agenda, to the exclusion of all other options for Israel.
So, again, it all comes down to money, money, money, and the ability AIPAC has created behind the scenes to apply pressure to those who don’t fall in line with their one-sided agenda. Howard Dean has followed right along with this agenda, I’ve noticed, after his “even-handed” remark during the campaign rocked many establishment Democrats to their foundations, and further alienated them from his campaign.
But I don’t have definitive proof of all of this at my fingertips — for me it’s mostly just circumstantial evidence and putting two and two together.
BushCo’s ability to cook the books for its next war may end on 11/8 if Democrats take a house of Congress. The window on Iran may be closing. Won’t the cabal be best served by another attack on the Homeland? I sure wish we were screening cargo instead of throwing away hairgel and being spied on.
Does sarcasm have a truth bias?
I’m so glad there’s no anti-semitism in my universe.
I can’t believe I forgot about the Palestinian slave laborers. That must be how.
punaise @
182
I just loved it when Das Boot’s feelings were hurt because some people called him a chicken hawk. He even devoted an entire column to it. Sometimes the truth really does hurt.
al-Scooter @ 187
from the Wikipedia link:
Israel does sell arms as well:
via MFI’s site
http://www.caat.org.uk/publica…..ms-exports
punaise, yup – that’s our Max Bootroom!
excerpted from GlobalResearch.ca
emphasis mine
Sophist #193: ::Gulp!::
I once again ask what ever happened to the good old, quite effective policy of “mutually assured destruction.”
I post about it at more length here.
It’s a prescription for what ails the Dems on national security. It worked, and the American people know it.
And this is how they should play it.
http://jonorato42.wordpress.com/2006/08/17/iraq/
Shoephone — John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt produced the most recent and generally accepted argument about The Israeli Lobby.
new thread
Two Max Boots are two much! Way two many.
OT
Court Rules against Green Challenge;
Case Heads to PA Supreme Court
By Paul Kiel – August 24, 2006, 5:07 PM
We’re one step closer to learning whether the GOP-sponsored effort to secure the Green Party a spot on the Pennyslvania ballot will succeed. Today, a judge denied a Green Party effort to have the matter quickly resolved in its favor and punted the mess to the state supreme court.
…
I’m beginning to think that the only way we are going to give it to Iran is if we are once again attacked in this country. If we were, Iran would become a cakewalk for Bush…
Valley Girl @ 201
EPU was being so wildly hyperbolic that he was mocking the real anti-semites who do lurk out there with fuzzy notions of Elders using TCP/IP and other protocols to control Zion…
I do worry that wingnuts will seize it out of context and use it maliciously…
*ilson46201 @ 201
… ah, the mod curtain slips a bit and we get a peek!
scarecrow @ 100
707
oofda @
58
The callouts (the text and the pointer to the object of interest) are also unusual. Outside the farthest range ring showing the distance from Iran of the non-existent missile are the names of all four missiles. The pointers from the names to the range rings are simple dashed lines, which I think look more like a path or a missile track than a callout pointer. So, a quick glance at the map could make someone think that Iran has four types of missiles with incredible range.
Also, the U.S. Congress when metric, at least on this map, and used kilometers, which gives a larger number than would miles.
*ilson – Why did VG’s post disappear?
In the EPU Zone, but so be it.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/…..704fa_fact
Looks like there’s a new thread upstairs, which will resolve the mystery “What
happenedwill happen 75 daysagofrom now?”EPU, *ilson,
the issue always makes people defensive, and rightfully so. I feel some of my comments in the past fit EPU’s complaint.
The mearsheimer/walt paper is the most definitive “evidence” to date of AIPAC’s undue influence on Congress. Jonathan Alder also had a recent post on Nation on the subject which I found compelling. (He notes that every sentator is required to write a position paper as one of the rules of engagement with the lobby). Refer to Norman Finklestein’s ongoing debates with Harvard’s Dershowitz for some insight.
This is an issue that deserves clear headed analysis, not incendiary anectdotes. The only solution (IMHO) is called campaign finance reform. Consider the last time this issue was taken seriously was during the Clinton administration. There were 10 months of hearings on the matter, topics ranging from guns, to achohol, tobacco, defense, oil, you name it. Number of times in 10 months AIPAC was mentioned: ZERO.
Of course, you may say that is “evidence” there is no problem…
My “awaiting moderation” post seems to have disappeared.
Now it’s awaiting moderation again. Toobz are beyond my ken.
I know, al-Scoots. Let’s just go get us a drank …
mine too.
I would simply ask EP* to read the Mearsh/Walt paper and report back to us…
Lotus, dahlin’, I’m with you!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 146
Biden ain’t so bad lately
that “humpty dumpty” analogy could catch on (I’ve seen it twice now)
we should start quoting Alice in Wonderland to refute these freepi fucks
some comments have been sprung from moderation, not ‘disappeared’
Free at last! Thanks, *ilson! I prolly should’ve altered the mention of **PAC in the quotebox.
Live and learn.
Make sure you watch this: it’s 3 hours long, but you will understand how we got to this point once you watch. Yes, you’ll see not only smarmy little Billy Kristol, but his dear old dad as well. Plus, the usual suspects…Rumsfeld, Pearle, Wolfowitz, Cheney….etc. They all heart Leo Strauss!
http://www.oneplanetonenation……ares1.html
I recommend the Mearsheimer/Walt article as a starting point, but do also have a look at this article by Michael Massing in the NY Review of Books. Massing starts by laying out the multiple shortcomings of the Mearsheimer/Walt piece but then goes on to write the article Mearsheimer and Walt probably wish they had written, providing considerably more reporting and evidence of A*PAC’s influence.
*ilson46201 @ 214
As I refreshed my browser, it did go away from my screen for a while. I’ve every confidence that you had it all the way, just reporting what I was seeing at this end of the toobz.
Kemo – I read it when they first came out. Their aloud their interpretation of the information and I am allowed mine.
They still don’t explain how the policy would be different. But still, at its heart, it doesn’t prove the case that American middle eastern foriegn policy would be different. You could come up with the same rationale for American middle eastern foriegn policy for oil and the interest of American oil companies and American consumers; you could come up with the same foriegn policy simply under a belief that a middle eastern country’s attempts to assert its influence in the region are antithetical to US interests; You could come up with foriegn policy under the beliefs of wingnuts on the pieces that need to be in place for the second coming.
Many groups in this country assert, or at least try to assert, influence on US policies, and groups like AIPAC certainly try.
Personally, I think the Israel is used by EAM LOSER and the neocons b/c the treatment of jews is a very sympathetic story and much easier to sell to Americans than, say, we do it for the oil companies or some other interest that doesn’t invoke that type of sympathy. There is nothing in that paper to disuade me of my views.
I also believe Palestinians are used by Arab countries, Muslim countries, European countries, Russia and China in the same way for a different audience – the reverse side of the same coin.
Either way, no one has the real best interests of either Israel or the Palestinians at heart, and they’re the ones who wind up suffering for it.
aloud = allowed
Kemo – I agree with you at 210.
MarkusQ @ 119
You give very strong reasons why a reasonable nation wouldn’t want or have them and you may well be right, but I still believe that if they want(ed) them, they already have them. They had money, access and motivation. Those would be weighed against the reasons you gave, but who knows which side Iran took.
My point with the original is to say that it is ridiculous for this administration to rush toward war with them to prevent them from getting nukes when, if they so chose, they could have had them for at least ten years.
This is part of a link from your post:
Read this now… here we go again!
Interesting, yes? Does that sound familiar? Why are they doing this? We don’t have enough soldiers to take care of Iraq and Afghanistan. Of course our only prayer is that Israel won’t follow through on the original plan and do it. It would be, I believe, the end of Israel if they dare nuke or even use conventional bombs on Iran. It’s suicide and I hope they stand up to Bush and tell him to screw himself!
How about this one:
Iran “likely” has chemical weapons RESEARCH. Wow… LIKELY has. What does that sound like? Preemptive war based on “likely” intelligence? What’s wrong with these people?
That’s even worse! These damn stupid people would have to be on drugs or drunks like their boss Bush to think that we are going to fall for this again. And the sell job is even worse. Do you think Wolff Blitzer will catch on to this one?
Here’s another one!
Read that crap… “raised the concern that Tehran may.” And tomorrow Don Rummie Dummie “may” wake up and decide to call troops up who are so old and so out of shape that he “may” have initiated a plan that would further destroy our military!
Why are they doing this? How could they have the balls to do this? And our troops are sitting there like live ammunition right across the border. There aren’t enough of them and there are NO MORE to back them up. Afghanistan is in a hellish mess, and Bush doesn’t care because they aren’t sitting on one of the top ten oil fields in the world. Those bastards!
The August pre-premptive, post-Lebanese, post defeat of the Israeli army to Hezbollah has started a little early. Drop on by the White House to learn more. They’re early this year because they are trying to start World War III. before the November midterms.
If I may be so bold as to note: America provides funding, some joint training, weapons, rockets and $3 billion dollars in annual support to a Jewish state/country that sometimes looks like a terrorst state and behaves like a terrorist state at times. But this expensive little “solution” to some problem I don’t understand created a bigger problem for the world than the original one! This little country has the right to exist but doesn’t understand that they have to stop killing to be allowed to exist. Actually, I want to be nice. It is better called a BULLY than a terrorist state. Let me introduce you to Israel, the Jewish state that causes much, much trouble for the USA. It’s another stupid mistake we have to live with, but we can’t blame Bush for this one.
The above description is slightly similar to the one about describing the terrorist state of Iran, only it’s about America and the Bush administration and the ultimate AMERICAN fiasco, the creation of the state of Israel.
And finally: where the hell did they come up with this on? It too has an American link that is quite similar.
Elements of the US government via the Defense, White House, CIA and State Departments are MORE THAN ACTIVELY supporting the Israeli government’s invasion of Palestine and Lebanon.
Is truth in the eye of the beholder or is this the beginning of another FIXED sell-up to the next war? They really have to hurry and get this done before November. They think it will save their butts.
What do you think?
lotus @ 132
Wasn’t Dr. Turtle arriving home Tues or Weds?
They might be busy.
The phrase that keeps coming to mind is ‘criminal insanity’: insanity for thinking this is even remotely a good idea, and criminal for trying to make it reality (without even getting into the criminal acts they’ve committed to get this far with it).
OK, so the Shrubya has been able to choose his own National Intelligence Director and is on his third CIA director. He declared Iran part of the Axis of Evil in 2002, and has been making noises about how dangerous that country is to US interests since 9-11. Yet, in 2006, the GOP is declaring that the intelligence community has insufficient evidence of the dangers posed by Iran.
So after four years of GOP control, the intelligence community still isn’t functioning as it should be. And yet the party in power continues to claim that its the only group capable of protecting the US.
(Not to mention all the eerie similarities between this latest push and the lead up to the Iraq war.)
Anne @
121
Maybe a break is in order — you missed my point completely. My point was how no means no and that forced sex plus lack of choice = the worst of all worlds. Sheesh!
Adrienne @ 29
The objection answers itself. For the neocons, Brewster Jennings & Associates was a problem. The intelligence on Iran shows no nuclear threat for five or ten years. If you’re a neocon, that’s bad: it means there’s time for diplomacy and no “one percent doctrinal” casus belli.
By shooting out the spotlight on Iran, Cheney cleared a path to war. His plan to out Plame was a twofer.
Bob Novack’s second “explanatory” column about Plame went beyond the first, naming Brewster Jennings. Once we might have wondered why. Not any more.
Fleitz came from CIA and apparently knew Plame’s role. He may have alerted Bolton and Cheney. That’s been my suspicion. And now here he is again, hyping Iran.
What scum.
i have a lot of active duty marine friends, and they all tell me the same thing: that the US is DEFINITELY going to attack iran this year. and the plan in regards to iraq is to occupy for at least 30 years. smart geo-politics, huh? welcomed with flowers and chocolates, my ass.
anyone notice that the bushliar-criminal regime set the stage for the ‘no good intell on Iran’s nuke program’ meme by outing Plame – our CIA mole on ta da: Iran’s nuke program?
.
Realist @ 42
Wonderful! I’m sure Peter Noone would accept your apology with a chuckle. OT-Back when I was a flight attendant, Peter Noone frequently flew our airline, and apparently the other flight attendants thought he was a great guy. I only got to ride as a passenger near him on my commute home. Anyway, the FAs on the flight said he was a consistently sweet and humorous passenger.