
If it’s Wednesday, it must be time for a meta. We’ve all been a bit edgy of late. Maybe it’s exhaustion. Maybe it’s the short time-frame between now and the elections in November, and an increasing sense of urgency. Perhaps it’s just because some of us have been dealing with sick children, getting no sleep, and inundated with e-mails, phone messages and other assorted things on our to do lists. (Or maybe that’s just me…)
Whatever the cause, I thought it would be a good time for a "take a deep breath" moment, and a small discussion of why this community is important to me. And why, I hope, it is important to you.
For the longest time, I was a political junkie who didn’t walk the talk. Sure, I bitched and moaned about the state of the world, but it wasn’t until the Kerry campaign that I truly got up off my butt and did something about politics. All those years of volunteer work for local charity organizations and the prosecution of criminals and work with at risk kids aside, I hadn’t really done much politicking (well, other than march in parades with my former boss and hand out candy…so I guess that counts to some degree) until I volunteered to help in 2004.
Blogging provides an outlet for all that frustration left over from that loss, and from the resulting Bush years, sure, but it also allows FDL to be a sort of megaphone for the voices of every person who reads here. Jane and I often say that we get our best ideas for articles and citizen action from our commenters — and that is absolutely true. We honestly have some of the best commenters around the web, and we are so grateful for it.
But as this site has grown in terms of traffic and such, so have the growing pains, on occasion. And sometimes it can be very difficult to take a step back and look at a bigger picture sort of viewpoint — especially when you are being bombarded from all sides by news bits and such that you want to hit, or thinking about three posts down the line from where you are at the moment.
This past week, I haven’t been around much (due to said child’s illness), but I spent some time last night and this morning getting caught up on a number of threads…and I have a few things I wanted to mention, for everyone to think about a little bit today. Sometimes, a little time doing something else can give you some good perspective. (And sometimes, it just takes you losing your temper a bit more than usual — like I unfortunately did yesterday in Pach’s afternoon thread with a commenter — to show you how edgy you, yourself, may have gotten of late.)
– Group think is uncool. Not only does it shut down the testing of ideas and concepts against competing interests, but it also lends itself to a sort of trampling herd mentality that I find particularly distasteful. (Perhaps because I was a trample-ee in high school as the nerdy girl in a school full of cheerleader wannabes.) Trolling — not cool. Constructive criticism and critical thought — very cool, very useful, and not to be shouted down where it is a result of a constructive conversation. Personally, I like some give and take — it allows me to stay mentally sharp (such as I am) and to test out the weak points of my arguments against someone else’s thought process. YMMV on something like that, but that’s my perspective on it.
– But trolling or trying to shout at everyone else in an effort to get your point across? Not cool.
– Our moderators have to walk a fine line sometimes in trying to discern on which side of the line something falls — because a disruptive poster can turn an entire thread nasty. Sometimes, we may jump a little too quickly, sometimes too slowly — but we are human beings and trying to interpret intent based on words on the page without the benefit of voice inflection or visual cues. So some patience from everyone would go a long, long way. And bitching at the moderators because they haven’t freed up a post snagged in the SPAM filter within seconds? Unacceptable, given the fact that these folks are volunteering for the good of the whole community. Patience, ever a virtue, is doubly good in this context. As is some gratitude. I’m just saying.
– We aren’t always going to agree on everything. Hell, Jane and I don’t always agree, why should that be any different for the various people who make up our readership? But just because Jane or myself or Pach or TRex or any of our bevy of fabulous posters says something, that also doesn’t mean it’s some sort of laying out the gospel. Far from it. Often, we are hoping to test ideas and language to see how well they work — as a potential talking point or narrative on which to build for the future. Sometimes, what we really want is feedback — and just because we push back at a question, we are most likely testing for ourselves.
– This is politics, not something personal. It’s tough to see the difference sometimes — I know it can be for me — but the truth of it is that this is a tough, tough race that the Democrats are facing this Fall. Inflated expectations aside, this is going to be a long, hard slog to the finish in the November elections. And we do not have time to constantly soothe everyone’s ruffled feathers each and every time someone gets some over every little bump in the road. I’m sorry, I wish it were otherwise, but that’s the truth of it. Hell, some days I barely have time to do what I need to do for my child and my family – you think any of us do this lightly? Hell no. Nor do we think that you all take this any less seriously, either. But in politics, passions often run very, very high — and occasionally, it’s going to lead to a clash or two.
The key is for us to remember that we are all on the same side, working toward the same goals (by and large *g*). But that doesn’t give any of us — myself included — the right to be rude or dismissive or assholish or whatever, or to stampede over top of someone simply because we think we can. It’s a tough call, each and every time I type something up and hit send I’m guaranteed to get at least one crabby e-mail from someone about something I did wrong…but does that stop me from continuing to write and voice my opinion? Hell, no.
And it shouldn’t stop any of you, either.
But, nonetheless, let’s try to be a little kinder to one another. Think before you send, that’s all I’m saying, and I promise to try and do the same now that I’ve caught up on a little sleep. This is a marathon, not a sprint, and I don’t want everyone hitting the burn out stage before we even get to the finish line, such as it is, in November (because, frankly, we’ll just have to gear right back up again and head out for 2008…). And if anyone has some ideas, concerns, what have you, this is the thread to air them out.
What’s on your mind lately?
Related posts:
- Funding the IMF: White House Should Honor Left’s Critique, Allow for Conditionality Review
- NEA “Scandal”: Secretly Taped Conversation Appears to Have Violated State Laws
- Late Night: The Shocking Lack of Civility in Our National Discourse, In My Considered Opinion, Sucks Hairy Baboon Ass
- The Bible 2.0, now with more smiting!





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Ned!
Lamont!
It’s Wednesday.
spasm @
3
I guess you lose track of time while you are trying to take care of a sick kid and save the country at the same time.
it’s just a harmless little sports page with a silly poll, but i think it’s great that GW is winning the “who should be banned” poll!
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/index
Very nice post, Christy. Thanks, and I hope the peanut gets feeling better soon.
I would also like to add that I think the guest posters you have in the stable are great, and I hope they all keep coming back to visit now and then.
Ab-Fab!!!!!!!!!!!
whoo whee!
spasm at 3 — damn, thanks. For some weird reason, I keep thinking today is Thursday — I’ve added a day somewhere. Corrected above.
How apropos, given the end of the prior thread!
Thanks for the timely and comprehensive essay, Christy!
Redd said: “What’s on your mind lately?”
You folks ready for me to post an Alaska primary election analysis here?
Ed*ard at 10 — what is the thinking on the Murkowski loss on his Senator daughter’s election plans?
… well, this is all well and good, but we weren’t done ARGUING in the last thread!…
*g*
{Peeking out from “lunchtime lurker” mode}
Christy, first I hope the little one is better. You and the rest of the FDL group have somehow managed to make even this “lurker” feel like part of a family. Thanks for the enormous amount of work you all do to keep us informed (and amused, TRex, thanks!). One of the reasons I’m here lurking every day is because there’s almost never any ad hominem nastiness or useless name calling, so the moderators are doing “a heck of a job.” (Sorry, couldn’t resist….) {Creeping back into lurking mode.}
Christy says,
“let’s try to be a little kinder to one another. Think before you send, that’s all I’m saying…”
I agree. Personally, I don’t think I am often “unkind” on FDL. although I occasionally may react too quickly when some stranger comes on and attacks Christy or Jane or one of our other bloggers or regular commenters with some criticism or negative message. Perhaps I should just wait and let the moderators handle it.
Overall, I think FDL is a congenial place and I hope to see it stay that way.
TeddySanFran @
12
That wasn’t argument…Merely contradiction.
;>)
Now raise your hands and repeat after me:
I solemnly promise not curse (well, at least not the F word), berate others (does humor count?) or flame at a moment’s notice (1/2 hour wait is too much, how about…ummm…30 seconds?).
Seriously Christy, thanks for the reminder. Will behave for food or pleasant constructive discourse.
Peterr @
9
Guilty as charged. Something posted in the comments infuriated me. I generally think two or three times before I go off on a rant, but I didn’t do that today. I tried to warn you. On reflection, I find that I meant every word, but perhaps I could have phrased my response better. Not quite sure how to communicate that kind of anger appropriately.
Very nice of you to put up this thread, Christy. In my experience, you have a pretty high tolerance for constructive, opposing points of view. One thing I’ll say is that I’ve had more fallings out and fights on-line in the past six years than in the rest of my life combined. It’s very rare to write an angry letter, angrily put it in an envelope, angrily go to the post office; at some point, second thoughts kick in or the anger dissipates. I think you’re offering good advice not just for this site, but for internet relations in general. Thanks.
The thing I love about FDL is that there’s so little need to resort to the famous SNL tagline in their Point-CounterPoint takedown: “Jane, you ignorant slut!”
But I’ve been waiting quite awhile for a context in which I might get away with typing it here. *g*
Thanks, Christy, it’s always a good idea to remind us all to mind our manners. The Golden Rule.
:)
What’s on my mind? I need a fitz fix.
No, seriously, I was hospitalized last week and got home Monday afternoon. I have been sleeping a lot since then.
I am SOOOO glad to have you all to come back to. One of the first things I did when I got home was fire up the laptop, and look in on all of you.
Yhis is a community of peers. Smart, funny, kind thoughtful folk.
I don’t know what unfortunate things happened to spark Redd to write the above post ( I guess I picked a good time to be out of touch) but, I hope we always remember NOT TO POLLUTE THE LAKE.
We all drink from it and it’s waters sustain us.
It seems that I’ve missed most of the fencing match or whatever it was. Been in SoCal and sick to boot. Just trying to catch up on the posts, never mind the threads!
FDL is the chosen blog home for many of us now. The reasons may vary, but we do owe our gracious hosts civility if not kindness and well thought out commentary. The quality of the writing here is extraordinary and many of us are here because of it.
I can’t imagine what the stagehands have to deal with behind the scenery, but we also owe them a lot of thanks for sifting out the chaff which can be really offensive.
Eyes on the Prize is the way to go. We have lots to do to turn the ship of state around and it is going to take all of our efforts to do so.
THANK YOU CHRISTY, JANE, PACH, TRex, and all of the other posters as well as the stagehands. My life would be much diminished at this point without you all.
I think that’s the episode where they go to France, and Patsy gets to play ping pong (and enjoys it! Horrors! :))
Honestly Christy I think you guys do a tremendous job. Other sites I frequent like Atrios and HuffPo have their discussions regularly bombed by trolling, and it’s just not pleasant to slog through it all. I’d rather have feathers ruffled…my own included…than have to deal with the trolls.
I’ve noticed the “concern trolls” pop out of the woodwork during the last 2 “critique this ad” posts. These folks may have been lurkers here before, but they never posted. And their first posts were hostile towards FDL and the regulars. Not merely disagreeing, but openly hostile to the posters. How DARE we attack candidate X! She’s nice! And etc.
I think FDL can get a little politically correct (PC)…something which I personally hate, and God knows I make no effort to be PC myself hehe. But there are time tested guidelines to participating in online communities. And the main one you see over and over again at different communities, is “don’t jump in and post until you’ve lurked for a few days and learned the rules”. It worked back on Compuserve, it worked on email lists, it worked on Usenet, and it certainly can work on blogs. New arrivals should have the common sense to treat people with respect, especially the site owners and moderators.
It’s hard (perhaps impossible) for a mod to distinguish between a troll, and a clueless and rude new arrival. Personally I’d rather have them both quarantined, to keep from stinking up the place hehe. The troll will move along. If the noobie has anything worth sharing with the community, they’ll stick around long enough to figure the place out.
My booklength 2 cents hehe.
thank you Christy!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 11
Lisa Murkowski was appointed to the senate by her father four years ago. The seat had less than two years left, and she successfully ran for it in 2004. The Democrat she beat was former Governor Tony Knowles, who is the Democratic candidate in the upcoming gubernatorial contest.
luv me some ‘lake
Marion in Savannah –
Thanks for the great comment!!! No more lurking for you, kiddo — please post again, and post often!!!
Christy –
You’ve done great — even when you are frazzled, you keep your cool and civil tone.
As the number of regular posters has grown, so too has the pool of occasional posters who are *ahem* unaware of the norms of civility here abouts. Some may be trolls, concern or otherwise — but many are visitors who feel very passionately about something. And yes, people do get passionate about little things, like posts that go into moderation, or those that get deleted for their uncivil tone.
It’s okay — step back, take a deep breath, and remember the old saying:
And this too, shall pass.
lhp – hope you are feeling better.
what is it in Alaska, Ed*, that there’s so MANY second acts in the lives of your politicans?
The Kim Jong Illification of George W. Bush.
Please break out your vomit bags and read this Thinkprogress diary and keep in mind all of the previous threads impact.
Rocky Vacarrella says:
“George W. Bush is the most wonderful, compassionate decent human being I have ever met in my life.”
No Bush is delusional.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/…..accarella/
-GSD
Nice post CHS. I especially agree with you about groupthink being uncool. The actual point of the discussion is lost if you refuse to engage alternative viewpoints. There’s no benefit in shouting down anyone or labelling anyone who disagrees with the front-pager a troll, as far as I can tell. On the whole, FDL is really cool, particularly the way the authors of the main posts engage in the comments. You don’t see much of that elsewhere.
peace,
jim
I’m really grateful to you for clearing the air.
ember @ 28
i am mending and hope to be back in the office next week. Thanks for you concern.
TeddySanFran @ 29
Perhaps they understand the many meaning of “long winter.”
Hopefully we can get rid of the daughter too at her next go around. If she had been up for reelection this year, she’d be a goner.
meta at 32 — it felt like a good idea. ;-)
BRAVA Christy….as always
ALASKA UPDATE
Two young, tough, attractive women were the big winners here. Both are mothers, intense in their family commitments. Both have challenged party structures which have now had to – finally, in both cases – accept them into the fold.
One, Republican gubernatorial candidate Sarah Palin, will win her November race handily, and create a new paradigm for her party here. She will also garner national attention, and be termed a moderate, which she isn’t. The other, US House candidate Democrat Diane Benson, might attract national media notice, but few expect that yet, least of all the candidate herself.
Sarah Palin did a Republican version of Ned Lamont. Except what Ned did was a LOT harder. Frank Murkowski would have been roadkill if Hugo Chavez were his sole opponent. But Frank’s advantage was immense as an incumbent governor with 26 years of DC contacts. He came in 3rd, just ahead of a guy who wants to annex islands off the north coast of Russia.
Working her way up from the Wasilla Assembly to Wasilla Mayor, Palin got her chops working for the early Murkowski administration. When she challenged corruption in her own party, she was made so uncomfortable in her job, she quit. When she went public on the sleaze, all party-based challenges to her assertions were shredded. So Palin ran against the powerful GOP machine here, which is perceived to be corrupt, and kicked some serious butt.
The fact that Sarah accumulated twice as many votes as her November Dem challenger, former Governor Tony Knowles, when Sarah was in a hot GOP race and Knowles was virtually unopposed in the Dem primary, shows the strength of her position now.
But Diane Benson has to be the most intriguing possibility to enter into national politics this week. Diane, an unrepentant Green who has embraced the possibility of a new Dem party, has challenged the Dem machine to actually take on Don Young, one of the most senior members of the US house.
Though he usually comes through with about 60% of the vote in his house race, Young has had two close elections in the past. The rumor since early summer has been that Young, primary victory in hand – he polled more votes than any other candidate on the GOP ballot yesterday – will now step down and the party machine will appoint Sen. Ted Stevens’ son Ben Stevens to be the GOP candidate for Alaska’s sole house seat. But Ben Stevens, former President of the Alaska Senate, is closely tied to both Frank Murkowski and the GOP machine, which are reeling over Sarah Palin’s lopsided victory.
Diane Benson’s son, an Army Airborne sergeant, was severely injured in a roadside bomb explosion in Baghdad last November. Before – and especially after – her son’s injury, which lost him most of three limbs, Diane Benson has been an eloquent spokesman against this awful war. Since her son’s injury, she has spent hundreds and hundreds of hours with disabled servicemen and women.
Benson’s November opponent, Don Young, has surfaced in several articles about Jack Abramoff and Tom DeLay, but only as a peripheral character. Many liberals in Alaska believe that Young has been in DC too long to be completely untainted by the scandals looming over the US House, but with the Abramoff investigation gone moribund, nobody here expects Young to be touched by any dirt before November.
Diane’s Green Party background will be exploited by the Republicans as the general race begins. However, Benson embraces the Democratic Party platform, though, which calls for development of oil resources in the coastal strip of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and for an all-Alaska route for the projected north slope natural gas pipeline.
Without getting into the specifics of minor races here, the national trend of tough going for incumbents is showing quite strongly in state legislative match ups – at least when viable candidates are running against incumbents. Unfortunately, some of the worst legislators are running unopposed in November.
LHP — so sorry you haven’t been feeling well. Was missing you in the comments, but figured you were swamped in court again. Glad you are home and on the mend!
lhp –
Can we have a little mittens update?
Remember to be nice to your repug friends – many of them are disgusted with the current state of our country as well and they can be powerful allies in our efforts
Thank you for making this a front page item. I have been thinking that lately FDL was going down the Slashdot path: with popularity comes 10 or so ‘first post’ items to scroll through, then a bunch of content to weed out as a big sucks-rules thread hogs up real estate.
But this proves that FDL will not stand for it!
I read FDL for the articles AND the comments. I love that there is a real hub here for various bloggers to connect at the article level and knowlegable commenters below the fold.
I trust FDL to right itself more quickly than a Slashdot. And it has gotten rocky before, only to smooth out again.
Anyone with a hot property that grows wildly past the ‘first adopters’ risks this kind of chaos. The custodians, moderators and ‘thought leaders’ in the comments of FDL are by and large doing a great job keeping the quality high.
Mo-o-o-ommmm, Christy said “hell”. *g*. Seriously, your points are well taken. I am one who is very quick to beat trolls about the head and neck with a rhetorical blunt instrument, and I am sorry to report that I will continue to do so. However, I will try to take your words to heart when dealing with those who are not demonstrably ill-intentioned toward the common goals of everyone who calls FDL “home.” My flesh-and-blood (as opposed to virtual) loved ones often tell me that what I perceive as well-meaning can come across as abrupt at the very least. So I hereby apologize to any regular I may have ever offended – except for one, and you know who you are. (Did that last phrase ruin everything?)
looseheadprop @ 21
Hi Loosie, I’ve been missing you – get well soon, OK?
As for what’s on my mind lately, I’m still seething about Richard Cohen writing in yesterday’s WaPo, that “Europe without American leadership…is a mere tourist destination.” How helpful is that? Of course, one expects pure garbage like that from Krauthammer and Limbaugh, but Cohen is still supposed to be on his knees kissing anti-war ass, as far as I can recall. Not to be snarky, or anything.
Why this site matters to me . . .
Passion is a good thing. It is proof that you are alive, and proof that there is something or someone else in the world that is worth caring about. I love being in a place filled with passionate people, like this one here.
It doesn’t mean we agree, but that we care enough about each other and the world we share that we’ll put our thoughts and our disagreements out there with each other. Sometimes, after hashing things out, we discover we have grown from where we started.
But how we disagree matters. Apologies go a long way, when we’ve stepped on someone else. Civility goes a long way, when we’re challenging someone else’s thinking or behavior. Respect for each other is mandatory.
Preview is my friend, not simply to make sure I’ve closed all those tags. Preview gives me the chance – if I take it – to read what I’ve written before putting it out there for everyone else. When I’m . . . ahem . . . passionately making a point, that’s when I need my friend most of all.
Not many blogs have got the technical chops that we’ve got around here, nor the crew of posters and moderators and such that make it all possible. Thanks to you all! I don’t have the financial resources to do much for FDL via the button above, but I can comment and guest post, usually in an intelligent manner.
My virtual two cents.
JimPreston at 44 — for your own sanity, man, take Richard Cohen in very, very measured doses, and with a large grain of salt. *g*
I posted this link on the previous thread, but I think it bears repeating. This is a must read if you want to understand what Bush has created in the name of 9/11, and if you want to help shape a better President and a better America.
http://harpers.org/sb-seven-mi…..77744.html
Great Harper’s article by former CIA chief of the bin Laden unit at the Counterterrorist Center via Raw Story about how us ‘Mericuns don’t quite “get it” on the GWOT, particularly from those who seem to be our leaders.
A series of questions about the current state of the Bush Administration’s “War on Terrorism.”
From dKos, via Steve Gilliard –
-ck- @ 39
Little mittens has now entered the “tiny terror” stage of puppyhood. She is nipping at the ears and jowls of the big dogs. Or she waits until a dog is asleep and chews on its tail. She has also discovered the joys of chewing on the wooden drawer pulls on the kitchen cabinets.
She is very funny and active and gets into everything. She is learnig to fetch. It looks like her fur will cover the scar on her back when it grows in.
She is a very happy, scrappy little pup who takes shit from no one.
Embrace Your Differences!
lhp,
aack! hope you are recovering -
TeddySF @ 10:24 – you sly devil
and thank you tireless Mod Squad - had no idea until we temporarily lost VG how much diligence and work was involved
For those that didn’t catch Scarborough on Stewart/Colbert vs. Geraldo/O’Rielly, C&L has the video. It even contains part of the show-canceling-smackdown Stewart handed down to CNNs Crossfire – one of my favorite TV moments of all time.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..-fox-news/
op99 @ 43
Loosie? LOL
I’m not sick, just injured. I deal with injury well, but thanks for the kind words
Short time lurker, long time poster, but you already knew that.
I’m glad you posted on this Christy. I don’t especially want to ruffle any feathers but I do have some concerns.
I have watched this place evolve for a couple of years now ,I believe.This place has gotten huge and has probably blown Jane away since it’s original format.
We do have some awesome talent around here, posters and commenters alike.And , like me, most are very protective of our hostesses.
I have seen some disconcerting stuff around here over the past few months.Mostly to do with extremely rude trolls to be sure.But also to do with the herd mentality also.
I would just like to remind everyone of the way that I like to think of this place. It’s like being invited to someones living room, with your parents there.
I personally get out of hand occasionally, get smacked upside the head and start remembering my manners.(looking at Christy out of the corner of my eye. *g*)
Trolls are one thing, jumping down people throats for voicing a dissenting opinion is another.
And just to voice my personal opinion on something, I’m not so keen on the trexing thing. I have seen it being referred to as censorship and I can see that viewpoint.
I guess my main point to this rambling screed is that, folks just need to remeber some manners. Honey draws more flies than vinegar.
Having said my $.02, I welcome feedback or even a good flaming. I’m a big boy.
And thank you to all FDLer’s, for what we do.
This is a very special place.
Excellent post. I visit FDL several times a day, but I rarely have time to particiapte in the commenting. I was saddened to hear that tempers have been flaring, although that is to be expected as the community gains readers with differing temperments and points of view. Comes with the territory. Anyway…Christy, you did a masterful job of laying out the ground rules for participants and shifting everyone’s focus to the larger objective. Perfectly balanced post. Nice leadership.
GSD @
30
Peterr @ 45
Well said, Peterr — I’d like to add another two cents, regarding civility.
Sometimes I write things that are better off deleted, rather than posted. Pay attention to that little voice inside, that tests the comfort level of what you have written.
Sometimes, wisdom is expressed by saying nothing.
thank you ck for the Gilliard link to the 60 year old being recalled – was gonna post it but got all caught up in my image posting challenges up above
btw, per this Marine call up 2 threads back – one of Gilliard’s regulars posed an interesting question
are these guys gonna get Re Up Pay or will they get screwed with Stop Loss ?
While at LAX and on the plane home I got into extended conversations with 2 different men. One from Santa Barbara, who seemed well heeled and was totally apolitical. He remembered a conversation he had with some guys in Iran 30 years ago and is convinced that they are out to kill us all. The other was a pilot coming home who is a repug and feels the same thing.
With both of them I had civilized conversations and rather than the kind of name calling I like to do about W. talked security with them since they seemed to be hung up on it.
Point one, if the r’s are so concerned about security and protecting us, why are the ports, the water sources, the power plants and chemical factories not a top priority with this admin? Point two, the admin. has shown the world that we don’t have a “poker hand” all of our cards are now showing and we’re coming up with a weak hand.
Other points went on from there, but the upshot is that rather than name calling and shouting, I may have planted seeds of doubt into two heads that didn’t think very much in those terms.
That is the fruit of hanging out at FDL and learning and using what we learn here.
Also, when doing door to door for Ned, scarecrow and I were called on on a couple of occasions (one in particular) to really pull out the talking points and arguments we have learned here.
This place has the power to educate and change minds. May it continue to be so.
Christy – thanks for saying so eloquently what needed to be said – what we all need to be reminded about.
If you can stand another suggestion, it might be nice to have an “Open Thread” every couple of days, which can be the place for all the off-topic and inside talk that can often be a distraction from the main topic.
Maybe it’s my mother-training, or maybe it’s memories of those junior high freeze-outs, but it really bothers me when the herd tramples someone who isn’t familiar to the group, and does it because the new person doesn’t come into the forum bearing accolades for all the brilliance he or she finds here. Yeah, some come in loaded for bear, but for heaven’s sake, try to remember what it was like the first time you posted a comment, or better, remember what it was like the first day of anything new where you didn’t know a soul.
Love you guys…
TeddySanFran @
12
… well, this is all well and good, but we weren’t done ARGUING in the last thread!…
*g*
That wasn’t argument…Merely contradiction.
;>)
Argument or contradiction.
Argument clinic
Durn Meta, why do you always scoop me? And this time, by a matter of second?
I’m bummed and never going to recover! *g*
CNN – kira phillips just said lieberman was running in the CT for lieberman party. is this the first mention on CNN?
“I HATE FRAAHNCE!!!“
(Edina Monsoon)
Night before last some confusion arose after inappropriate posts were deleted. Regular commenters who arrived after the fires were stomped out didn’t know what had gone before. It had to be a very confusing time to jump into the fray.
One of the many things I love about FDL is the Blue America series. Howie has a diary up at dkos abut this afternoon’s session with Ben Rahn of ActBlue. Y’all might go show him some love. (Oh, and he’s offering a free CD for anyone who makes a contribution to any of the Blue America candidates today. See his diary for the “code” for what kind of CD you want.) http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/8/23/122250/064
One of the many other things I love about FDL is that it is politics, but it also is personal. We care about each other, even unto the pets. It’s a community. And bless the moderators for helping to keep it that way.
dear Christy, Thank you very much for the post. It’s a good reminder of every day life around us.
Mad Dogs @ 61
Mad Dog, I’ll scoop after you anytime.
Yikes.
I would like to really thank the mods, whose behind-the-scenes efforts are I am sure a big reason for this being and staying one of the best boards anywhere.
And good post Christy, you always set a civil tone. (Which makes your occasional cussing all the more delicious.)
I see on HuffPo that Arianna is saying that Ned is going to Chappaqua in the next couple of days to meet with Hillary…
oh and here’s what’s on my mind since I read it last night:
“Hey Rockey, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat…D’OH!”
;>)
looseheadprop @ 21
lhp, so glad to hear you are on the mend, and I second your comments about the Lake. (The guy who wrote the Able Danger book is casting aspersions on Fitz, btw.)
I’ve also been largely away the last week, so I have missed most of the unpleasantness in the comments. If you’ll pardon the paraphrase, I would say the price of FDL, as we’ve known and loved it, is eternal vigilance. Most of that vigilance is provided by our moderators – and a huge thank you to all of you who do that work.
But all of us need to keep an eye on ourselves as well, and as Christy said, think twice before we post something nasty. Just a little effort on all our parts (well, and more than a little effort from the moderators!) will keep this a place where ideas can be vigorously debated, but with a foundation of mutual respect and acceptance.
that gave me goosebumps, thanks Sharkbabe @ 70.
powerful.
i would like to see us stop getting so worked up over polls. there are so many of them and too many that are either biased or at least not very accurate. they’re usually worth a mention but seldom worth a fret. you can expect several to come out every week. consequently, we shouldn’t get too disappointed about what the american public seems to think or feel about things because the polls really don’t spell that out very accurately, and we are more liberal/progressive than the rest of our fellow citizens.
that said, there’s an MSNBC poll out today with over 80,000 votes, with more than 80% of people saying that the Bush Administration lied about getting us into Iraq.
Peace, sisters and brothers. we’ll do just fine if we stay steady and take the long view.
Christy –
Perfect. And no surprise whatsoever there. I bless and treasure your good heart and clear mind forever. Amen.
Marion in Savannah –
Yer busted! Now that we know you’re there, we’ll be calling for your opinion regularly, howyalikethat? Welcome!
Although I voraciously consume the contents of at least a dozen blogs daily, FDL is the only place where I regularly comment. The main reason that I interact with the posters and commenters at FDL is the high standards of reason, fact based arguement, and civil discourse that I encounter here.
To Christy, Jane, Pach, T-Rex (never thought I’d be complimenting and extinct sauropod) and all the other ’stage hands’ who help achieve and maintain the organism that is Firedoglake — my heartfelt thanks. I will do my best to meet your very reasonable standards, and, should I transgress, I will be happy to be vaporized. When everyone is shouting, no one can be heard.
Well said, Christy. There has been a weird vibe here over the past few days; nothing we can’t work through, however.
FDL is the best. Thanks to you and Jane for “having us over”.
To Christy –
I really love this site. I really do. If I had only one site to look at a day this would be the one. But after the other night I don’t feel like posting so much and when I do I’ve been self censoring myself because of a possible response from some of the moderators. I understand that moderating is a thankless job. Really I do. But what I didn’t expect was to be sworn at by moderators and fending off personal attacks from them. I feel like that if I don’t agree with them I’ll be jumped on again. It’s just really bumming me out.
When Bush says we will be in Iraq as long as he is president, why shouldn’t we take this as an plea to have his burden lifted – i.e., to be impeached and to be allowed to return home to Texas, leaving the war to others to take care of?
Sharkbabe @ 70
How interesting and so appropriate for this thread.
omg. ab fab. one of my absolute favorite british comedies. back to work.
Anybody want to guess what Hllary and Ned will talk about?
Iran to announce nuclear ‘breakthrough’
via rawstory
Sharkbabe, beautiful. Thank you.
o/t
Hola babe of Sharkness!
seeing the shy little bass player made me think of a certain Firedog
probably been sent to you a kajillion times by now, but in the off chance . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1AFDwb7lBg
and if you ever have a chance to see Thich Nhat Hahn in person – GO!
lisadawn, I just want to add to the many others who value your contribution here. I really cringe at what happened to you the other night, but I hope that you will stay by us.
And thank you for your service to this country. Our thoughts are with you as you fret about a recall.
What Sharkbabe said, oh, and Peterr, and RevDeb, and op99 and Anne, and Sandlin and lhp, and TeddySF, and . . .
Exactly what was needed, Christy.
Hope immanentize shows up, cause a few days back he asked an important question but didn’t get much feedback. Just like Christy, he was referring to how hard this election is going to be and how tough the tasks ahead are, and wondering “are we disciplined enough?” Are we up for this? Can we hold ourselves together, stay focused, agree/disagree without tearing ourselves apart and stay focused on what needs to be done? Cause there’s just too much at stake for us to fail just because we couldn’t talk to each other.
This place gives me a lot of hope, and maybe today’s post should be “Spotlighted” to some of the skeptics out there.
I wonder if Mickey Mouse and Fred Flintstone signed Lieberman’s petition too?
lhp –
Dang! I’m so sorry to hear of this injury/hospitalization, but at least now we know why we’ve been missing you. (And have we ever!) Thanks for the Baby M update almost as much as for the you update. I hope your healing goes smoothly, quickly and as painlessly as possible.
NefLes –
Babycakes, yer back! WOOOOOHOOOOOO!
Sharkie –
That Thich Nhat Hanh lesson couldn’t BE any more exquisite, could it? Thank you.
An interesting and well-written article. I hope many digest well the content.
Ghostman
I think there has been a lot of post 9-11 pent up speech that has been repressed by the mighty wurlitzer playing traitor traitor to anyone who dared disagree with the decider. The passage of time is loosening lips, particularly as those who took a ‘wait and see’ or ‘give him the benefit of the doubt’ position have seen their worst nightmares start to come true. Expect some more heated discourse, its the lifeblood of democracy.
Consider yourselves a ‘free speech zone’ and be proud of facilitating it.
windje
Anne @ 69
that’s OK as long as he doesn’t stop along the way to play that Hogwarts game…
twolf1
I haven’t been watching TV so I don’t know how long the Lieberman story has been on the air, but I looked at CNN.com and here is how they are telling it:
“The certification means that Lieberman, who lost the Democratic primary to a political newcomer, will run for re-election as the candidate of the new Connecticut for Lieberman party.”
I think it is significant that they talk about Lieberman’s new “party” rather than casting him as a “Democrat running as an independent” which seems to be the way he wants to describe himself. CNN’s version is more accurate.
So I hereby apologize to any regular I may have ever offended – except for one, and you know who you are.
op99, if t’is I, is there anything I can do to fix it?
darkblack @
15
Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
The voices of the lake give me hope and inspiration. I am so glad we found each other.
lhp – Wishing you a speedy recovery.
Sharkbabe @ 70,
Thanks, you don’t know how much I needed to be reminded of that. THanks so much.
Get a load of this pic!!!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/8/23/123014/572
meta @ 82
It’s a good thing for Hillary to introduce the deep pocket New York donors to Ned Lamont — just to show them he is not a dirty hippie or a wild eyed rabid venomous lambkin poodle blogger.
Ned Lamont is old money, and an old school Demoract — with up-to-date progressive values.
Here’s a clue for the foaming-at-the-mouth Joe-for-Joe wingnuts — what is good for business is good for America.
Corruption and cronyism are bad for business, and bad for America.
The corrupt and decrepit Bush Republican Party is bad for business, and bad for America.
The corrupt Bush Republican Party is bad for American Security, and bad for America’s future.
The Bush Republicans are bad for everyone, and we need to throw the bums out.
Vote Democratic — We Care.
lisadawn82 @ 78
I tried to speak up over that but couldn’t find the words. In hindsight, all I wanted to say was that I was sorry for things others said. Gotta tell ya though, you handled yourself with great dignity and class.
1,251 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith:
Bless you and Jane (and Pach and the adjunct staff)…you have put together something that is far larger than the sum of its parts and, to some extent, has grown beyond your ability to control. The communitarian nature of this site , that is the collective of people who participate at some level in the site, has a strength and character much like the archetype (or mythology) of the frontier or pioneer community. The health of the community, it’s willingness and ability to be tolerant of members and take care of each other, is conditioned by it’s leadership…that’s you Citizen Hardin Smith!
Your commitment to democratic social prinicples, your thirst for understanding of differences and your belief in people’s ability to find solutions to problems is what guides this site…you don’t hafta worry about the members of the FDL commuinity tearing the fabric of the place as long as you are willing to do what you just did and ask for reflection and contemplation of first principles.
Bless you again for your work and your vision and…
KEEP THE FAITH, WE NEED IT NOW MORE’N EVER!!!
Ghostman at 90 — thanks. Felt like it needed to be said. (or maybe it’s just the pain meds for my joint issue…*g*)
ember @ 80
Substitute “Firedoglake” for “Earth” in the above comment, and what you have is, indeed, appropriate for this thread, as ember says.
neurophius @ 93
Yes. As late as yesterday they had Lieberman’s name with a (D) next to it at the bottom of the screen. Hopefully they, and all the other M$M will have a (CFL) next to his name from now on — or at least an (R) ;)
Just got to love the Norske.)
Oh look, y’all — Mary McCurnin’s back too!
Mary McCurnin @ 139
In New Orleans the bar usually comes first. Especially in neighborhood restaurants.
God-the neigborhoods are gone. The dialects are gone. I used to be able to tell which part of town people were from. Uptown, Gentilly, Ninth Ward. All of that has been washed away. New Orleans was one of the last bastions of true humanity in this country. Not predicated on the notion of “I need to buy more shit and I need it now”.
Being poor is not easy but it doesn’t mean you are not happy. New Orleanians were happy. And they had a strong family networks. Generations of strength.
C’mere, hon, lemme hug your neck!
Anne @ 69
Why did I get a chill and the feel of a meeting with the god
fathermother with this?On T (to the tune of “Love and Marriage):
Comments and moderation
Comments and moderation
Go together like the fleet and the Federation
And the Ladies are the mothers
Who make the space for all the others.
Comments and moderation
Comments and moderation
Go together like Bush and Investigation
If you’ve got the one there,
You can’t survive without the other.
Moderation and the comments
Moderation and the comments
Go together like earmarks and abscondments.
So my rhymes are crappy
The point is moderation keeps us happy!
lisadawn — I understand why that issue isn’t closed yet, but please hang in there; that too will be resolved. In the meantime, there are a lot of folks here who need your courage and need you to step up and defend the thread, the conversation, and to keep it open, just as you did then. It’s like being on duty/watch, and you understand that better than most.
Thanks, Christy. Hope you and Fiona are both on the mend. We are a community, and we’re about to go through a real trial-by-fire with this election (to say nothing of the aftermath if we win), so we’re more than likely to have many more “growing pains” as time goes on. I think you set some reasonable guidelines. Although I don’t speak up a lot (haven’t always got the strength), I try to read everything everyone says, and value and enjoy very deeply my time at the lake. I know it must be very difficult for you sometimes, especially with your joint problems, but, omigosh, the value of what you’re doing is immeasurable.
darkblack @ 72
Which he then took home to Babs and said: Mommy, can we keep the kitty?
Funny thing is, she said yes, and he’s been carrying it around in his pants every since. *g*
Christy Hardin Smith @ 102
I’ll have what she’s having . . .
*G*
And the caption on that photo: “No, Connecticut’s this way!”
Don @ 95
Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
;>)
ember:
No kidding. lisadawn was downright inspirational and I learned more than you can imagine, lisadawn, from the way you stuck your chin out, held your head up high, and reminded everyone who you are. Thanks again.
I’ve been on the phone with business for the last two hours, but let me just add to Christy’s post: I’m Pachacutec, and I approve of this message.
Jenny, ember, and lisadawn: Yes’m!
What NorskeFlameThrower said at 11:17 a.m.
Well spoken.
RevDeb @ 59
This is soooo true. I agree one hundred percent. We need to shore up our weakest links.
Also I personally if I wanted to get the greatest effect from terrorizing the US I would go to a small city in the heartland and blow it up. Everyone expect the big cities like NY and LA to be targeted. But to really make people insecure that it could happen to them ANYWHERE hit a small town with white picket fences. Especially if you blow up a chemical plant nearby or a truck or train carrying explosive or radioactive material.
**Note to Federal Officials – I have NO plans to do something like this nor to suggest someone else do it.**
To Meta – Thanks. The reason that I brought up the military service was to explain what was horrifying me the most was that while there are people out there fighting for our freedoms it was killing me that there were a couple trying to suppress that one freedom here. Not that I have any patience for personal assaults on others here. Have at it and delete them.
No need to thank me for my service. I consider myself very lucky indeed to have met and served with some of the neatest people in the world. I went in because I was the oldest of four and my machinist dad had just gotten laid off and I figured the best thing that I could do for them was to get out of the house. One less mouth to feed and all that. But I stayed because I found a job that I couldn’t wait to get up and get to.
Cleanup needed on the last thread . . . *sigh*
Christy, in my humble yet professional opinion, you’re a saint.
Steve Duncan, I will apologize to you for using the F word at you in the last thread. Your comment made me furious. I own the house I live in in New Orleans. Our insurance company was very quick to take its high premium but it took them nine MONTHS to honor their contract with us. During all that time, the house was sitting here while our loss of use funds were dwindling because we had to maintain separate housing in another location so that my grandchildren and my son could go to school (there were no schools here) and continue to make our mortgage and insurance payments. Now that they’ve finally paid, we realize that if we start the repairs, we’ll go broke in the middle, because the money that needed to be used to let us live somewhere else while the repairs are being made was used up just in living somewhere else for nine months, making house payments on a house that we can’t use. Meantime, there’s a FEMA trailer sitting behind the house which supposedly sleeps six. There are seven people living in my household, eight if you count the neighbor who is staying with us.
I work. I eat right. I don’t smoke, I drink an occasional glass of wine, I pay my taxes and I pay my bills. I still don’t know where we go from here. The housing market is iffy…and if we can’t sell, then we can’t leave.
I’m not asking anybody for a handout. I’m asking government to do what they’re supposed to do, what I’ve paid taxes for them to do. The infrastructure needs to be repaired. The Corps of Engineers admitted in April that the levees failed due to flaws in their design. The clean-up and rebuilding contracts go to large corporations who are NOT giving us our money’s worth, just because they’re somebody’s gravy train or crony. Nobody’s holding them accountable for their profiteering. I have story after story…personal stories…about that.
My husband has been back here since a couple of weeks after Katrina, trying to salvage our life. He’s a man on the edge and I stay worried about him. Neither of us can sleep. Everytime we try to move forward, it’s like we go two steps sideways and three back, because nobody in the government, the insurance industry, and the corporations who hold these big contracts wants to do their job. Why should they, when this administration…from the top down…does any oversite to be sure the American taxpayers are getting their money’s worth?
It’s easy for you to say “close down New Orleans” when you have no stake in it, own no property here, and don’t have to worry about where you might go, and how you’ll pay for it.
And many thanks to Christy, who I admire a heck of a lot. :)
Oh, and please add scarecrow to my 115!
And Norske too — yikes, where was my alleged mind?
Looseheadprop — glad you’re back and hope you’ll be on the mend soon.
Lisadawn82 — I tried to address all that the other night, and again yesterday, but I think Christy did a much better job than I ever could. Please try to feel at home here — WE feel like it’s your home and value your contributions.
Please consider it a family argument — but the kind in which everyone ends up learning something important.
And please don’t stop contributing: I’d miss that very much.
Speaking of course for me only. All I care about is stopping the wars, getting rid of the neo-cons, electing Democrats, and listening and discussing. In that order. I can say that I recall when my daughter was a little one. She had all these food problems. If she slept for one uninterrupted hour, we’d feel awfully lucky. I worked all day. Went to college at night and I cradled and walked the baby until well after midnight. Every night! The only thing that would relax her was music from the old album, “Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Time”. That, I think was one of those times that built character. I was frazzled. And edgy. And irritable. To the max. My daughter, the Princess, still frazzles me, just in different ways now. But the sun sets on her. And the sun rises on her. I wish I could go back and hold her and walk her to sleep just one more time. But of course that’s impossible. She’s no longer a baby, she’s a woman. But she will always be my Princess. And a progressive San Diego Democrat, at that.
darkblack, love love the Chimpy Skunk graph.
I just caught a clip of the whole Rockey thing, which I hadn’t seen. Gimme a break! What a cheap PR stunt. Joe Blow rolls into town and gets a meeting with the President and comes out saying Yawwhoooo! Too bad Cindy Sheehan wasn’t in the trailor.
Busted knuckles at 54
So, what do we do with all these flies?
scarecrow @ 87
This is an important point. I’m so worried about this election — I actually think it is more important than 2008. If the Republicans retain control of the congress, I really believe “the American experiment” will be over. Democracy will be over. The aristocracy will have won in its 21st century form: the corporate oligarchy.
I mean, it’s so bad that where I used to envy Madonna for her professional life (a very little-girl-chin-propped-in-hands sort of envy), now I envy her for the fact she gets to live in England!
I’m with immanentize: I wonder if I will have what it takes to go the whole mile. I’ve given $$ and time beyond my means already, and I’m happy to do it. But still . . . we just have to win, that’s all.
ccmask, I hope you’re reading this, grrrlfriend.
lisadawn – what happened the other night should not have, and many were shocked and – frankly – sickened by the savagery of the attack, which seemed to come out of nowhere.
Please keep commenting – you have so much to offer.
From my heart, I apologize. Not because I said anything I shouldn’t have, but because I did not say what I should have.
I don’t know what happened with LisaDawn on the threads, but after rooming with her in CT working for Ned, she’s an A-OK member of the FDL team. And we don’t beat up on members of the team. Disagree, constructively engage, but we don’t beat up on one another.
lotus:
LOL… better quit while you’re ahead. :)
meta @ 122
here’s the official transcript:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..60823.html
Christy, thanks — just got out of a meeting and it looks like I will be here at work until late tonight….
As you know, I love FDL — just check out my time spent here!! I found this blog after spending a good deal of time at others, particularly Eschaton and Kos. But I tired of the rapid insider clever chatter of the first and was way turned off by the meanness in the comments of the second.
When I started posting here, the tone was quite different. Sure, there was lots of passion, but there were very very few ad hominem attacks and those that did occur happily came from you or Jane (our hosts) and were directed primarily at trolls. Even when commenters lashed out at trolls, the most excellent moderators told us to hold our witty repostes and hang on because the mess would soon be cleared. “Do not feed.” It was excellent advice then and is excellent advice now. I have learned a great deal of wisdom here and some patience as well. I have given and received a few attaboys for patience….
But something has changed Christy, and maybe I am impolitic to bring it up, but my sense was that regardless how spirited the discussion became, it was considered inappropriate to launch ad hominem attacks on commenters.
Now, however, it seems perfectly acceptable to write quite nasty profanity-laced personal attacks on longtime commenters just trying to get a differing view in. The reason it is tolerated is because it is some of the front page posters launching the ad hominem attacks.
I think one of the interesting questions about this blog as it has grown is what is its responsibility in the larger world. Originally, the tone here was set exclusively by you and Jane because you two did almost every post every day, day in and day out. When one has a small blog, you are pretty much free to post or say anything you like because no one is listening. But you two kept it substantive, high minded, interesting and informative. There was ALWAYS passion, but rarely meanness — certainly not from you two and rarely in the comments.
When a blog gets big, as this one has, that ability to say anything is changed somewhat — outside pressures demand something (I can’t define) and as more people begin to have a stake in the blog, there are more people who want it to be what they want — all the time!. You can still see Atrios and Kos fight against this effect every week. Also, as this blog has grown, you and Jane have added new posters and dramatically increased the diversity of voices heard here. Bravo!
The strange thing to me about FDL is that as it has grown in both readership and in influence, it has become less pleasant and more hostile. In part by including and encouraging new posters, you have also encouraged their ownership of the blog and they simply do not always act with the thoughtfulness or respect that you and Jane have customarily shown.
And believe me, I can mix it up and say “Fuck” and all sorts of curse words in various languages and call other beloved posters names with the best of them. I wouldn’t be much of a criminal defense attorney if I couldn’t. *g* But I like to save my intolerance for the intolerant. And there has been a big uptick of intolerance lately.
Many of you know how much I dislike spending time at Kos because of the self-important, intolerant downright vicious attitudes which can be summed up by the term “Armando.” Please, do not let the spirit of Armando become the norm here. Passion yes — reasoned heated disagreements, snark, irony, emphasis even —
But attacks on commenters? I vote no.
{/slightly incoherent plea}
RevDeb @ 34
TSF,
You’re right. Hickel was governor from 66 to 69, then from 90 to 94. Other examples, too.
RevDeb,
Lisa Murkowski is far more popular and far more responsible than her father ever hoped to be. She would do well in any race in Alaska.
People keep asking what they can do to help. My answer: Bring all the pressure you can to bear to FORCE the government to oversee their buds in the contracting industry and to rebuild the infrastructure here in New Orleans.
lisadawn,
what Scarecrow said – and you may not have been around the next morning when no less than immanentize was backing your play -
NO!, women of the lake do not need defending, but when a stand up guy like imm vouches for ya and what you have to say, plenty of folks get it – so sorry, you’ll just have to keep comin’ back and speakin your mind :]
and Norske – we do not hear from you ever enough !
Does anybody think Tasini has a prayer against Hillary? Could there be a huge anti-war backlash against her that can come from out of nowhere? His money is totally limited, so getting info out must be really hard.
How about some netrootz for him?
{{{{{lotus}}}}}
Hi, hon – good to be back. I will never catch up on all the comment threads, but I hope to at least go back and get the posts. *g*
OK Kiddo 123:
Just beautiful.
Pachacutec @ 115
Too bland! Oh and the music is too creepy :)
You need to wave your hands around more or something hehe.
Passion and civility have always been able to co-exist at FDL, occasional flame-outs notwithstanding. I think we should all think of ourselves as deputy moderators in the comments. By this I don’t mean self-censoring (although, believe it or not, I do sometimes hesitate before posting.) Rather, feedback within the comments that help keep things from spinning out of control.
(John Casper’s polite but pointed interventions are the examples that come to mind.)
Maybe that’s a bit too “can’t we all get along-ish”; so be it.
Leaving town but wanted to second, third, and fourth everything in CHS’s post.
Perhaps more experienced commenters can pick up a situation before it gets out of hand.
lhp 50
hot sauce on the drawer pulls
glad you’re back and better
Ed*ard T
thanks for the excellent Alaska update
Are you saying that Palin is not a moderate because she is more or less conservative than she seems?
Re a post earlier today,
Bush has said that we will be in Iraq for the rest of his Presidency. His “stay the course” mantra would necessitate our keeping troop levels about where they are now. But is this feasible? The equipment is breaking down now. Retention and recruitment of troops is not keeping pace with needs even with involuntary reactivations, stop loss, and the lowering of recruitment standards. Troops are beginning to look at their third deployment to Iraq with no regard to the stress this places upon them and their families. Readiness across the board in our ground forces Army and Marines is taking a big hit.
And yet Bush is talking about 2 1/2 years of more of the same. What I would like to see is more discussion of just what 2 1/2 more years of quagmire would entail in terms of troop deployments, replacement of equipment, projected casualties, and costs to the budget. The MSM should but really isn’t discussing this. How many tours will soldiers have to do in Iraq to fulfill Bush’s glib assertion? Three? Four? How many families and personal lives will be destroyed so the Decider in Chief can get his way?
Bush says we will be in Iraq for 2 1/2 more years but the wire and bolts, sinew and bone, dollar and cents of our army say we can’t. What we need is not stenographic reporting of another of Bush’s idiot statements with some grudging recognition of the war’s unpopularity but an adult discussion of what our policy options are, how we keep our army intact, and how we get our forces the hell out of Iraq as soon as we can and manage the likely chaos which follows? I know, I know, adult and MSM together is oxymoronic.
Yikes!
lisadawn — I just realized my “Comments and Moderation” ditty might be read the wrong way by you. I was there at the end when you got moderated and I too was really uncomfortable with it. And uncomfortable isn’t strong enough a word.
My ditty was a celebration of how untroll this site is. You were caught up in mistaken moderation, and it wasn’t good.
I apologize with red face if I offended you.
Jeebus, Mary and Joseph, I just went down to the basement to see if I could locate a jar of FDL blackberry preserves and WHOA. I came running back up and locked the door. weeeyyoooooaaaaaahhhhh.
the FDL Gold Standard as far this commenter is concerned
and no punaise, it is not too can’t we all get alongish – it’s dead on
Ed*ard Teller 133
My memory about 2004 isn’t exactly the best, but wasn’t Lisa in a tight race then? It may not have ended up a nail biter, but IIRC it was competitive.
And second Susan in Iowa’s question:
immanentize @ 134 -
Now I know why you’ve always been high on my list of respectable and respectful commenters. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments you just expressed, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
dang this having to go off n do work!
cbl 85 – never seen it! Love it – thanks!
I love this site. So many smart people, such humor; FDL is sometimes my sanity in the face of what seems like coordinated evil. Thank you Christy and Jane for creating this wonderful forum!
And we are now on the radar screens of the Right. We’ve made a difference lately and we can expect tolling behavior…
—-
I’m pretty sure that here in Santa Barbara I live in a bubble of liberal thought…so I spent the weekend in conservative rural Indiana and I talked politics to a lot of folks that live there, serving pizza, working at Walmart, behind the counters at the rental car hut and at the Richmond Holiday Inn. They were all, every one, disgusted with Bush and the GOP. They have the opinion that they’ve been lied to and ripped off. Nicest people in the world, and they have written off the conservative right. My guess is most of them won’t vote in the next two elections, but there are votes to get if we can address their needs.
I don’t think we need to worry about getting too Kumbaya around here. Too many smart commenters, too much wit. It’ll never happen.
Oh, and immanetize is quite the human being, ain’t he?
*BIG shout out to revdeb who I enjoyed meeting soooo much last week. A real pleasure!
Oh my God, Christie, I love your picture of Patsy and Eddie.
punaise @ 140
You’re the king, Rodney
…Well, not that king.
;>)
immanentize:
I don’t know if that’s directed at me, and I can’t think of any incidence of me attacking a commenter except the one (whose comments have now been deleted) who went after Jane in a vicious, ad hominem manner. I have not gotten any email contact or feedback to me personally, even in the comment threads, expressing concern or citations of specific actions of mine that may precipitate misunderstanding.
In my consulting work, we always go by the following rule: the best meetings are “two people talking.” If anyone gets upset about something, I would ask, for my part, that there be feedback, since I can’t address or consider anything I don’t know about. I appreciate that all the community feedback is impeccably well intended; please don’t misunderstand me. I’m just saying that elliptical feedback is not helpful because no one knows what to do with it. Does that make sense?
If anyone ever has a problem with me or a concern about my tone, intent or perspective, and it can’t, for whatever reason, be addressed in the threads, the best thing to do is to contact me directly, offline. I swear I’ll listen. Given the wide range of people and the trolls we get, I can’t say I’ll always agree with you, but I’ll listen. I’m reasonable. In fact, in life, it’s what I’m known for.
As for the invitation for direct feedback, I expect that goes for all of us. We’re human, just like you, and we won’t be perfect, but we all operate from good faith. We’re all on the same side. And I don’t think anyone can fault any of our commitment to the common good, or our caring for our brothers and sisters in arms in this community.
HotFlash @ 126
Bottle them up and send them to Joe?
Anne @ 130
ditto!! This sums up what I was trying to say above. Several FDLers were able to speak up at the time, thank you Scarecrow and Imm, but several of us were… stunned in silence.
Hugh @ 145
The Prop is warming up [via Prison Planet].
neurophius @ 14
Great post Christy. I’d like to add that Christy and Jane are quite competent in defending themselves when the need arises. The last time I checked neither have a thin skin, nor are any of us ever 100% correct 100% of the time. I was more than dismayed at the tone the other night, it was HARSH, and had to force myself to stay out of it and not for the first time, because I knew I would get flamed if I expressed my feelings and observations at that point no matter how logical or truthful they appeared to be to me. (As someone else stated yesterday, “I have a temper too”. I prefer to focus it on the fascists ruining our country and quality of life around Mother Earth.)
And that was about our own, not just the trolls or dissenters, IF we were allowed to even see what anyone wrote, most seemed to get deleted for the slightest of infractions leaving the rest of us in the dark which didn’t help. [Disclosure: I have seen the spam and abuse that comes in behind the scenes before, OMG it’s a disgusting deluge and I’m thankful this is a moderated site] I agree that the abusive trolls coming in screaming about “all you commie liberals are all going to hell!” need to be nipped.
Someone pointing out a perceived imbalance, alternate point of view, or that they feel there’s a double standard with front pagers, mods, or Class Pets whom all know they are always safe, or that anyone is not above reproach, needs to be talked out at times. If we disagree debate it, we shouldn’t be insulting anybody’s intelligence or perspective. That’s diplomacy, and the art of diplomacy is letting other people have our way.
Lots of things have evolved around here and I know I have flown off the handle before (my personal pet peeves are dissing Native Americans or calling Mary Magdalene a prostitute, or sexism, or assuming Godd/ess is only male) some that I’ve regretted but we are adults, and I like many am still working on my rage and humility.
I’m still more in love and prefer this community, the friendships we’ve made and connected with to any other on these Internets.
Jenny FTB
Back at you! It is always fun meeting “fellow travelers” face to face. And you’re only 10 minutes away from where my mom lives! We will probably meet again, if not at next year’s YKos, then in SoCal.
immanentize at 134 - That was most elegent.
Um.
Would everybody please step back to the last thread and read from steve duncan’s 143 (if you haven’t refreshed your browser there since he submitted it) through to the end?
And when you come back, could we please entertain a Sense of the Community resolution that steve duncan has entirely worn out his welcome here?
And then another one that LindyH never will?
Thank you.
lotus @ 95
Of course it’s not you! If anyone has any doubt if it’s s/he or not, then it’s not.:)
LisaDawn
you’ve got e-mail.
shoephone @ 150
and from mine also
Well, I have to admit that I’ve had a lot of nasty, snitty, meanspirited things on my mind (standard rabid venomous lamb stuff) after reading the punditocracy and op ed re: Judge Taylor’s opinion. Thank God for Turley, Greenwald and even Tribe – or I’d have broken something by now. I’ve decided that I must be immeasurably unable to understand basic concepts, because I find people who are quick to claim their academic credentials – Yoo, Kerr, Althaus, Volokhof, etc. – all pretty idiotic on this. It also makes me real happy I stayed in Kentucky for law school, where many of the horses asses were actually attached to horses. One way or another
lhp – glad you are on the mend and I hope things didn’t fall too far apart while you were recovering. I hate the way things seem to stack up.
I’m also in that wound angst state with so many cases out there and/or going up – all that seem to have so much riding on them and all while we have such a KKKKK approach to governance right now (Keystone Kops meet…)
Iran bothers me, Katrina bothers me, the state of discourse (not civility but the failure of content to survive as an element), etc. etc. etc.
Pretty soon the frown lines and furrows are going to start leaving ridges on my skull.
Susan in Iowa @ 144
Sarah Palin was elected mayor of Wasilla in 1994 along with the huge wave of conservative Republicans nationwide. She started out more conservative and less pragmatic than she now is. Unlike many Republicans who claim to be both fiscally and socially conservative, Sarah IS a fiscal conservative, but – while adhering to her Christian fundamentalism – she has gone from rejecting public schools to appreciating them, for instance.
When she came in as Wasilla mayor, her post-election stump speech at meetings sponsored by churches had a line (paraphrasing) “Private schools do it better than government schools.” But when she tried the local Christian schools with her kids, she found them to be of poor quality. They are. When she tried home schooling she found that model to have limitations for families where both parents work long hours. Now her kids are in public school, and she active as a parent in her kids’ schools.
I’ve know Sarah for fourteen years, having coached in some of the same leagues as one of her kids. She’s a hockey, soccer and basketball mom. She has attended some of my bands’ concerts, and we sometimes attend the same community events.
Her reputation recently has been as a maverick who was the first to show Murkowski’s administration to be full of unprincipled hacks.
Locally, she has been very pro-development, but so is just about every public figure in Alaska.
Shez – “I’d like to add that Christy and Jane are quite competent in defending themselves when the need arises.”
I’d like to second that.
The one thing I hope both the author and others will remember is that the fight we’re in is, in many ways, the fight for our nation’s life. While civility has its place and in general I agree with the premise, I find people on our side, all too willing to…lay down like dogs in the face of static from the other side.
We can’t do that. We have to borrow a line from the Dixie Chicks – “not ready to make nice.” If we get attacked by the repukes, by Lieberman, by the stenographers of the MSM, we must fight back and we must be willing to see that this fight is a street fight, and there aren’t any rules. Anything less than a full-throated callout, when we’re attacked, will be seen as a sign of weakness. Look at what happened to Kerry when the Swift-boaters kicked it into high gear.
We have to fight against that.
I missed the contretemps that gave rise to this post, and I’m glad. That sort of thing is rare, for which I am grateful. The community seems to find its gyroscope pretty fast, as this thread shows. The Basic Rule here is civility, which is one of many reasons that I love this blog.
It’s hard to “hear” how what you are writing “sounds” to the reader. In your mind, you have the inflection and tone of voice applicable to your words, but it does not always translate well, emoticons notwithstanding. If I am unsure of myself, I work on the comment in an email form, then cut and paste it into the comments. It’s a little like having to lick the stamp and walk to the post office. Slow down, make sure it doesn’t sound crabby.
I also follow the rule that if it feels wrong, it probably is.
OT, and my apologies if this was already discussed in one of the comment threads I haven’t had time to go back and read. But I really like the suggestion Jonathan Alter, seconded by Josh Marshall, makes:
Every one of the 37 Senators and 193 members of the House who voted to sustain Bush’s veto of the stem cell research bill – every single one – should be confronted and asked to make the following pledge:
Any State Roots Projects members from the home states of any of these Senators or Representatives might want to contact said S and/or R and ask them to take the pledge; might be a nice little grassroots accountability project. Just a thought.
probably get EPU’d but
Christy thanks. i don’t have a lot of time to post and chat but i love to read the threads and take it all in. this place refreshes me like no other in cyber space.
again, thanks to you and jane and all the moderators and contributors
Mary, Judge Ann Taylor Diggs has been and is now being swiftboated. They just can’t help themselves.
Guitar Playing Bastard 166:
Just wondering… did you read the thread we’ve been referencing?
I think what’s happening to Steve Duncan is exactly the mob mentality that has taken over this blog.
First off, I don’t always agree with him but I say he has a right to say it. People are attacking him because he’s saying things that are not politically correct for this blog. That to me is the pack mentality that is turning me off from this blog. I’ve been here since practically day one and I have enjoyed it, but if anyone has something to say that the group doesn’t agree with, people start saying he should be banned from the site.
I love a good argument as long as it is civil, and lately it hasn’t been. It used to be, though, and we had some great discussions back in the day.
Just some thoughts from someone who’s been here a while.
calvin wants to know where he can get a copy of that great photo of Jane and Christy. Autographed, of course.
Hi, I haven’t had time to read the post where the spats occurred so excuse me if my comment has already been posted. According to today’s Guardian online A think house has an article saying US Policies in Iraq have strengthened Iran. For most of us I know that’s a DOH moment but it’s nice to see it print.
Hi, I’m not good at links but here’s the headline ——————————————————————————–
US interventions have boosted Iran, says report
perfect storm happens and we (dems) take back both houses and impeach both the president and the vice president — Who becomes president? Would it be a Dem?? If we had the majority?
UAW support for Lamont
via: http://lamontblog.blogspot.com…..ont-d.html
cbl @ 148
Yep
Immanentize (full names for respect) very nice. And I don’t want to be on the wrong side of cursing and snark from you – nothing gets by you and I think you could be very scarey with sharp instruments. ;)
I can’t point to anything specific, but have a general feel, as well, that some posts Christy and Jane would have treated as differing opinions are getting dealt with more roughly at times.
OTOH, there is a lot that goes on of which I get to remain (thankfully) oblivious, so I’m not always sure how much backstory is involved.
JPL @ 175
is this your link?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq…..63,00.html
cathy @ 176 -
I am just as put off by the “herd mentality” as anyone. I often find myself leaving the thread, and the computer, when I feel my opinions would not be welcomed here.
But I think you’re mixing up group-think with fending off someone who’s trying to burn your house down. Steve Duncan is nothing if not offensive. And that’s putting it lightly.
Jenny from the Blog @
175
Actually, not yet, I’ve been slammed both at work and with the band, and I’ve been away for a few. My comments applied in general and not necessarily relative to a specific thread. I’ll go read it.
cathy 175, someone who would say to Christy,
“Don’t go standing in front of a moving train. Somebody might prevail upon me to feel bad for you and help pay for your funeral………”
is someone I don’t want to hear from ever again.
lotus at 11:47 am –
Steve has some interpersonal communication issues — such as an unclear grasp of how his comments might be received.
*ilson –
The post in question should be saved, in case Christy feels the need to forward it, the IP, and email addy to folks in the know. The statement was probably meant as snark, but you never know. This JBR fella initiated an email correspondence with a CU professor 4 years ago, and it took this long before he dished enough dirt on himself to get the warrant.
Christy: Wheels on Fire! I adore Patsy and Eddie but my absolute favorite character is Bubble! You and Jane ROCK! Also, I know Anna Diggs Taylor, and Chucklenuts will never have the set she has!
Guitar Playing Bastard -
Cool, I was just curious if your comment was general or specific to the particular thread from the other night, just to get a better feel of your opinion. Thx~!
meta @ 174
I know – it just makes me want to sign up for active duty and fire back. Especially when I read idiotic examinations that don’t even begin to address the procedural posture of the case. When I posted way back when after seeing that she was going to let the Summary Judgment Motion go forward, I mentioned the fact that Gov hadn’t bothered to Reply to the Summary Judgment was going to be a hehehehe. It’s like they pay no attention whatsoever to how the case was postured when the decision hit.
bg @ 138
No chance, but I try to pimp him here in the comments when it is germane to the conversation. I did a little back of the envelope calculation – the NY Dem primary turnout will be maybe 600k, last poll Jonathan’s “natural” level of support was 13% or 78k votes. Let’s say every single FDL NY reader got out and voted for him (70k x 7% NY) that would be another 5k-ish votes. But his Iraq position is very appealing to NY Dems WHO LEARN ABOUT IT, so maybe if every FDL reader points his NY friends and relatives to Tasini, that can give him a more respectable showing, which I think would send an important message to 2008 prez-primary-conscious Hil.
beth @ 188
oooh! This makes my day!
The Nefarious Leslie at 172 –
I saw that too. I’ll bet John Doolittle is a dastard on that vote.
cathy @ 175
Sorry, but the Steve Duncanism displayed in the last thread is antithetical to basic Democratic/progressive principles.
LindaR @ 192
Shez @
160
I hope that I am not a Class Pet, otherwise I’ll have to bite someone and dispense with said honorific for all time.
;>)
I often ‘hold my tongue’ figuratively (and have been told to do so occasionally) regarding the enemies of civility.
A veteran of untold flamewars, the bloodthirstily savage part of my soul seeks to visit the darkness upon those who would attempt to sully erudite discourse with their malformed mendaciousness…Yet the reflective Apollonian idealist within holds the heathen fast with mighty arms, refusing the leave to desecrate another’s temple.
I (and we) are but guests here, fellow travelers with like and hopefully respectful minds…Yet these minds are not and should not be identical, unlike our self-styled antagonists whose sole power resides in a communal ability to suspend reality, akin to refusing the power of the ocean tides simply because one wills it so.
For myself, I merely wish to bury such people up to their neck in the sand below the tideline, so that they might be able to appreciate the phenomenon more accurately.
;>)
op99 @ 191
Threatening to kill the moderator goes waaaaay beyond progressive principles hehe. I realize many Democrats are politically correct to the point of absurdity, but come on, that’s so far beyond the pale that no one should stand up for it.
Oops, I wrote these on the wrong thread:
Again not to defend Steve Duncan but he was speaking metaphorically. He may not be funny or even clever, but that doesn’t mean he should as yet be banned.
I can’t help but think back to when this blog was newer and we would have some great back and forth discussions with everyone shaking hands when it was all over. I miss those days, but I guess it was inevitable once this site grew so large. Sigh…
op99 187:
I sort of liken this race to the Jane Harman/Marcy Winograd contest we had here in CA recently. I pulled the lever real hard for Marcy even though she was an underdog, and I think Harman heard the sound of sharp disaproval from her base too.
I hope Tasini gets enough of a vote to spin Hillary’s head around a bit. Fingers crossed!
Guitar Playing Bastard at 11:55 am*
The metaphor I like to use is animals in a snarly growly fight with another of their own kind. A cat or dog will sometimes bite or scratch their caregiver human, but not really mean it — it’s the passion of the fight, being unleashed on the nearest critter.
When these threads get overheated, a lot of the flame wars can be traced to that kind of misplace passion.
Keep your eyes on the prize, folks — the first order of business is getting rid of GOoPer thugs that enable Bush; after that, we focus on the rest of them, starting with Bush and Cheney.
I include Joe Lieberman among the Bush enabling GOoPer thugs, btw.
RAR-HAWK @
180
It would be Speaker (Pelosi?).
But could we stop the war first? Pretty please?
LindaR @ 193
Yep, I’ll bet he is! Wouldn’t you love to get a video camera, a la CT Bob, and ask him the question?
EPUed from previous thread
Obstreprous comments may however be deleted on the spot to maintain civility…
OT– Rockey Vaccarella gets to meet with the Preznit cause he’s a “plain talking guy” and yet dubya won’t meet with Cindy Sheehan?
I am glad that Rockey realized his goal and hope it brings those folks some help.
RevDeb @ 149
By Alaska standards, Lisa Murkowski’s run against Tony Knowles wasn’t all that tight. Knowles, who was a paratrooper in Vietnam, failed to connect with voters. Lisa, OTOH, garnered support from the right in spite of her soft positions on gay and womens’ rights.
Alaska politics are even more local than most places. Reading comments around the web on yesterday’s primary here, I’m astounded at the ignorance about my home:
from Kos:
“Yeeeagggh. I suppose it’s too much to hope that Alaskans will ever turn blue (unless they spend too much time outside), so I doubt a Democrat has any real chance in a statewide election.
However, Given that the name Murkowski in Alaska is roughly equivalent to Daley in Chicago this is a Powerful sign that there is an anti-incumbent fever sweeping this nation that should bode very well for us.”
Gag! There is no Alaska equivalent to that kind of a family machine.
again, from Kos, re Sarah Palin:
“she’s a stunner! considering that Alaska is disportionately Republican, and disportionately male (or so I’ve heard — 10-1 ratio? can it be?) — she’ll win on her looks alone!”
double gag! women just passed men in percentage of population here.
Just two of hundreds examples of basic ignorance.
I posted over the weekend – late night on Saturday I think – in response to Astralplame’s question of whether FDL had changed. Since I’ve been here a relative long time, I responded that I thought it had: that it is too self-congratulatory and hagiographic and that “facts” are simply accepted as true without support; and not in good ways.
I agree with all that Immanentize wrote, but think the issue goes beyond ad hominim attacks – but that disagreement with the opinions expressed in an article are met, even without ad hominims, with derision if not contempt from some of the commentariate, whose self assumed role these days is to cheerlead and “protect” the authors – and I am not simply referring to attacks on trolls, who deserve what they get.
With the result being a self-referential cool kids’ clique snidely making derisive jokes and comments about the dimwitted masses and how dumb everyone else is if they dont get it or agree.
I’m not against humor or snark, or contempt and derision when due – but not in place of, or at the expense of, the honest and open discussion of ideas.
I haven’t been around much the past couple of weeks b/c I felt the need to hold my
tonguefingers. That if I expressed the opinion that I didn’t think a post was as snarkoliciously brilliant as the rest I would simply be ad hominimally (is that a real word) attacked; or if I questioned the consistency of what the commentariate finds offensive and why the same thing would happen. And like Imm, it is not that I can’t be as harsh or crude as the next poster in the thread (I’m actually confident in my ability to be harsher and cruder), but that’s not why I first started coming here or commentating, or why I stayed.JimPreston @ 201
Before Speaker Pelosi comes the President of the Senate (to be chosen by the new Democratic majority)
Hi All,
Have been lurking for about a month and getting my courage up to post when the fan got hit. Thanks to CHS for excellent ground rules which I’ll try to follow. I hope she and the Peanut are feeling better.
There’s so much going on that’s painful (Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, more Bush lies, the “terrist” threat on the heels
of Ned’s victory, the Ned smears by Cheney/HoJo, etc)
that I think we who feel deeply get frustrated and cross and take it out on each other.
So what’s a troll?
cathy at 12:14 pm*
I agree — Steve Duncan was probably speaking metaphorically. That said, he chose some piss poor metaphors.
This would have been a good time to step away from the keyboard for Steve Duncan, but that was not the choice he made. Sad, really.
a troll is what you use to make troll-house cookies …
EPU,
Please post this on the other thread also.
Thanks.
Busted.
Leslie @ 11:56 am -
Have you seen this? http://www.livescience.com/hum…..cells.html
a troll is what bricklayers use to slather cement…
LindaR @ 193
OT, but a propos, Charlie Brown has a diary over at dkos. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/8/23/135031/456
*ilson —
I think the President of the Senate is fourth in line, after the VP and Speaker of the House.
Oh, wait — the President of the Senate is the VP, no? Anyway, maybe it’s the President Pro-Tem of the Senate I’m thinking about.
To amend my previous comment about the Winograd/Harman race…Winograd wasn’t nearly the long-shot that Tasini is. I actually thought she might pull it off against Harman, but I live in the bluest area of a blue state and so I had unrealistic hopes.
I sure will do the happy dance if Tasini gets some real support, though. I like what I’ve seen of him.
Kurt @ 196
LOL, I got back too late to self-edit, I was going to add “even if he said what he had to say in a civil manner.”
This one, again from Kos, is precious, though:
” Well, Murkowski’s defeat shows that moderates are no longer welcome in the Republican party. Murkowski’s defeat will send a signal to the Soviets that we no longer care about defending America and they might as well just come on over the Bearing Strait. Oh, wait…”
The one current I’ve picked up from national web diaries commenting on the Alaska primary that is interesting is the one above. Will the media point out the differences between Murkowski’s reaction to defeat and Lieberman’s reaction? I know, I know, Murkowski was pasted, but the question begs asking.
Busted = What other thread?
1,251 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hardin Smith:
I jest read the last half of the comments from last thread and I would just like to make a suggestion…when a fascist like Steve Duncan makes a comment like he did, the collective voice of response should be to make the troll into an example of what he wants to represent. What I mean is, we must all respond by thanking the troll for providing the image and argument that identifies why his ideology and politics must be irradicated from our future and why it will be featured in our dustbin of history. Each respondent can focus her/his anger and energy on reinforcing a segment of the troll’s argument as it represents the evil of what the troll stands for.
We usually take care of trolls very well here by ignorin’ ‘em or by simply one-linin’ ‘em into last week. However, if the troll takes out after one or another of us and we get the “OK” from the hosts, then we should all bury the bastard in irony and intelligence and hang ‘im in the virtual street as an example of the evil that we are fightin’.
The strength of the revolution, the momentum of democratic change comes from the unity against the evil of the enemy as much as from the power of shared values.
KEEP THE FAITH AND KNOCK THE BASTARDS INTO LAST WEEK!!
darkblack, right on. You are one of my faves and a person that I always wish would weigh in more, I admire your talent and intellect to no end. I cruise along with the natural ebb and flow of the Universe, sometimes I’m more social, sometimes I’m emulating my Native name of Spirit Eye and sit back silently observing and tuning into the frequencies. Your rare written and deep input always catches my appreciative attention instantly.
Jenny from the Blog @
189
Having read it, I can see what CHS was talking about, but, honestly, I enjoyed CHS’s ire. It was genuine and in an odd way, refreshing. She wasn’t willing to lay down and *I* liked that. She may feel…sheepish in hindsight, but dang, she was being very real, and that was cool, at least in my book.
I’m a sicko, probably too aggressive for my own good, but that kind of vicious repartee can also provide perspective…because I believe there are times when that sort of thing IS called for…doG knows the other side uses it, metaphorically, every day. We have to be willing to get some dirt on our hands. CHS did OK if you ask me.
Think of it like NFL training camp – you gotta hit your teammates before you go hit the other team. I’m not saying it should be…normal, everyday or any of that…but butting heads with each other IS good practice for honing our skills for attacking (and I mean attacking) the other side.
Welcome, osprey!
A troll be a critter what usual lives unner a bridge in Norway but sometimes come ovah hyeuh fo’ to throw nasty stuff on our tea-table. We doan lak ‘em and we doan ‘low ‘em ta come back no-how.
ck, 49: “Maybe next we will be sending 14 year-olds and amputees as well?”
Maybe, but not before we make sure we send the sons and daughters of administration officials and congressfolks who voted for the war. Speaking of which, wouldn’t it be useful to compile a list of the sons and daughters of such folk who are of service age but are currently not serving? Would that be unfair to the children? Maybe, but how fair is it to send only the sons and daughters of the less privileged?
And while we are doing that we should also compile a list of the children of congressfolks who are serving. My guess it will be a much short list.
Can we begin with the twins?
Wilson and -ck-
Please refer to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U…..succession
From EPU at 206
Thats about right.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 212
Hi, Stephen! No, I hadn’t seen that particular article – thanks for the link. It makes the administration’s political posturing all the more infuriating.
hi folks -
The community created here at fdl is precious to me – it pulls me to come here and to make space for fdl along with patient care, activism, and living.
I’ve been off with the forest activists in the Northwest (more later – the witch hunt against eco-activists has been gathering since last fall; outing Valerie Plame is only one instance of abuse of power to punish dissent – I’ll write more on the current wave of harassment against eco-activists at another time…), and I missed the last two weeks at fdl.
I’ll catch up on recent threads, but I needn’t catch up to know that the friendly, welcoming space created here at fdl depends upon mutual civility and courtesy. I’ve been thrilled to discover this place – fdl – and delighted by the community we have formed.
I’m looking forward to being more active in sharing these commmunity norms with new posts, and also in being more assertive should familar community members seem to be likely to benefit from a reminder of the norms.
I’m grateful to Jane and Christy for creating this space – I look forward to doing my part so the community remains and grows.
If I wanted hostility and insults, I’d simply be generating new user ID’s and jumping into the insult stream at Kos – but I graduated from junior high in 1974, and have no desire to repeat the experience.
I’m looking forward to continuing to celebrate fdl as a place where the adults go to learn, play, laugh, and collaborate – and the trolls are swiftly excluded.
Love ya, firepups.
EPU,
The previous thread is still going and leaning towards this subject. I thought maybe everyone could see your comment.
Presidential succession as of today
Mad Dogs @ 48
That is a great article. Scheurer picks at scabs and has gone after a few people who I think were also trying to do their job and a good job, but I don’t see how you get a perspective on any of it without looking at what he has say and taking it all seriously – VERY seriously. He’s got all the depth and they shouldn’t let anyone have anything to do with the “GWOT” without reading Imperial Hubris, IMO.
His answer to the question of “what do we do” is very thought provoking. He cuts to the chase on so much. When asked about the impact of the Iraq war on the GWOT
lotus @ 161
Lotus, you are kind, but I did get discourteous. And then I dumped my life in everyone’s lap. I should probably take a vacation from the computer.
A troll lives under a bridge and eats billygoats.
I have been reading FDL for a long time, but only rarely comment. I feel like I know quite a lot of you, although most here would go “Who’s that guy?” if I were to post something of consequence. Most of the time, I just don’t have that much to add other than “Yeah, what he/she said!” Not very enlightening. I can, on occasion, make witty comments about old movies that absolutely no one gets or cares to get.
I do know something about web etiquette, tho. Talk to the person on the web as you would if you were face-to-face with that person. In fact, take MORE time that you would, because the web doesn’t allow the nuances of body language and tone of voice that you get with personal interaction. Don’t hide behind the web’s anonymity to attack someone. That’s being a coward.
And always eat all your vegetables. They’re good for you.
*ilson46201 @ 230
Well, doesnt’ that just scare the crap out of you. Kind of makes me sick.
*ilson46201 @ 230
*ilson, that is one scary list.
Just catching up.
Thanks Christy, you really are a special soul.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 12:20 pm (#205) – I haven’t been here as long as you have, since “EPU” was already a verb when I started commenting, but this is my perception as well. For me it came to a head yesterday. I’m hoping things turn around, this has been an interesting place to visit.
YIPES! Major lightning bolt! See y’all later.
First, thank you Christy for this post on civility—that, hand in hand with the political insight, is why I was drawn here in the first place (along with Fitz, peony blogging, and great recipes, but I digress…). I really don’t know how you do it, every day of every week of every month, but I thank you for it.
Now, Angie @ 204, Prairie Sunshine mentioned this Rockey V. at the beginning of the last thread, and then I read this article at the Times Picayune also telling his story. Is this story going to be the swiftboating of those in NOLA and the gulf coast who are still frustrated with the (non)response of FEMA and the gov’t? I don’t watch CNN much so if they are giving him a lot of coverage, where did it suddenly come from? It is just so improbable that W would sit down and have dinner with this guy, if it wasn’t set up behind the scenes.
EPU at 12:20 pm*
Great Post. I’ve wanted to have a discussion with Suin about what happened at Billmon’s Whiskey Bar, in the months before he shut down the comments.
As it grew and grew, and the threads became less and less focused. When Billmon himself was trashed for a post mildly critical of Michael Moore, that was it.
A couple of months ago, I was worried about FDL being overwhelmed by an influx of Atrios snarkmasters. Now, I think that’s exactly what we need — more light hearted humor, to counter balance all of this heavy shit that’s been going down.
Eli — help, help!!! Go recruit your buddies — we’uns need some snarky relief!!!
Serious answer to your query about what a troll is hehe: Click Me!
But a short answer: If this were a pool party, the troll would be the person taking a crap in the pool, instead of chatting or dancing hehe.
Wow, it just dawned on me that I aked for a reverseEPU from EPU himself! Is that like time travel?
Guitar Playing Bastard -
LOL, I think we’re talking about two different posts. CHS was not involved in the one I was referencing. :)
No matter, it’s certainly not important!
-ck- at 240 — your prayer for humor has been answered…new thread upstairs.
duck and cover Lotus!
Jennyftb@199 – I think Harman did get the Winograd message. She’s been doing some excellent work since then (including her NSA surveillance legislation) and just sounds like someone who is really working again, instead of wafting along in the GWB backdraft. She’s smart and articulate, so it was good to see her get a renewed interest in flexing her Congressional muscles for something other than picking up pom poms.
zeppo @ 233
I like old movies. No… I love old movies. And old movie and television trivia. Fact of the matter is, I’d really love to see an old movie “pull up a chair” type of thing. Something say along the lines of old movies (and for that matter newer flicks) that reflect some of the progressive things that get discussed here. But, I don’t really know if that would happen. It would be nice though. Perhaps. I think.
New thread from Christy
Jenny from the Blog @
243
Must be, but the F.U.C.K Y.O.U post had me in stitches. :-D
I’m all for civility….as long as it remains civil.
Now where did I put that stinkbomb I was about to lob?
Otherwise, a very welcome post by CHS to put things in perspective.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 220
Bravo.
I await with expectant glee and the polemic equivalent of a phone book and a large bag of oranges for aforesaid exampled trolls.
Let ‘em in.
Busted – That is funny. Feel free to repost it, i’d be coming late to the
fightparty.Whew, glad I was on the road for the last part of the last thread.
Somebody responding to me pretty much equated rape to smoking and drinking.
Wow.
*ilson46201 @ 229
OMFG
*ilson46201 @
230
oooeeeeeeeeoooooophhhhh.
President Ted Stevens? Yipes!!!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 247: (Excuse me, I haven’t figured out how to edit the blockquotes thing…)
Thanks, it would be fun. Maybe the “open thread” that was suggested much earlier in this thread would be a good place.
See you upstairs in the new thread.
Michael Scheuer is required reading!
Christy –
Thanks for the new thread — an FDL afternoon delight!!!
btw — did you notice the SD comment at 11:02am in the previous thread? Kinda weird, and hopefully metaphorical — but that’s for you to decide. fwiw.
I think if you take Imm’s and EPU’s comments and put them together, they say much that is true, even if it is hard to read and/or accept.
I would also like to say something about the philosophy of moderation. Some of you are aware that I play a role there. I don’t make a big deal about it. I view my role as one that facilitates rather than censors. That catches the true spam and gets it out of the way. That spots a helpless commenter trapped in the filter and freeing him or her up as soon as I see it. When I’m not sure about a comment, I defer to Jane or Christy. I don’t have a problem with different points of view, even edgy points of view, as long as they are not rude, or designed as nothing more than a cheap shot. You all are very good at debate, and not afraid to tackle an opposing point of view. That kind of debate sharpens our skills, prepares us for day-to-day conversation out here in the real world. As long as we’re not being punk’d by someone posing as someone he or she isn’t, it isn’t going to kill any of us to confront the opposition. In fact, with so many of us taking our skills and knowledge out into the political fray, it helps us way more than it hurts us.
While we’re in group-therapy mode, I should also say that when there is name-calling involved, it is personal. It’s fine to tell someone you do not agree with his or her opinion, but when you call that person a name for having that opinion, you’ve made it very personal. And you’ve just lowered the credibility level of your own opinion to about zero if you can’t come up with anything better than a personal slur. It’s personal when you thought you were on the same side of an argument, albeit with a different perspective, and all of a sudden there are 10 people calling you names.
Okay, enough cathartic confession…on to the next thread!
lotus @ 163
J/Christ lotus!
Agreed – illuminating posts by Steve, if only to help define the values we hold here. Steve appears to hold none of them.
Cathy – reread the thread, and explain where “civility” appears in Steve’s posts. Really – I’ve looked. His stuff reads like (forgive me for mentioning this name here…) David Horowitz! Your 176 & 198 suggest a serious disconnect, especially considering the title of this post.
Your pity-party for the lack of open dialog here? A little perspective please.
Mary @ 242
Mary, yes it seems Jane has been responding quite well – nice to know she’s not completely tone-deaf. She used to represent her constituents quite well, way back when, and has been a huge disappointment in the past few years. We’ll see!
gotta add my voice to the chorus of “right on, Christy” and “thanks” while I am reading all these comment-responses.
Now, back to reading.
twolf1 @ 256
Yeah, sure…but looks good compared to President redRumsfeld…or Godforbid, Cheney.
*ilson46201 @ 12:31 pm (#229) – Presidential succession as of today
Remember when we joked about Dan Quayle being life insurance for the President? Looks like the son’s outdone the father on that score.
I have read over and over again about “conservatives” and others complaining about illegal immigration from Mexico. Most of the more popular solutions have to with fences and stronger punishment. There is some lip service to “the path to citizenship.” However I really do not think folks are that upset about illegal immigrants. I believe that there is a great amount of hype about costly health services, welfare, crime and the fall of the economy as being results of illegal immigration. The facts are clear that most immigrants from Mexico want to come legally, for work and opportunity. They do not apply for government services, due to the risk of being deported. Those that go to the school system are usually legally born citizens of illegal immigrants. They have a right to everything citizenship affords and there should be no argument there, period.
But we keep hearing this line about they are breaking the law and they should not be rewarded. My answer to this is then the rest of America’s retirees receiving social security payments should then not reap the rewards of the taxes withheld form these illegal immigrants paychecks and never refunded for failure to file income tax returns under a false SS#. That being beside the point this is a p.c. cover for racism. Because the logical conclusion is that if these immigrants entered “legally” no one would have a problem whatsoever with them. The problem is that there is no VISA now in existence for a LABORER!!! You cannot apply for entry into the U.S. if you are seeking work as a dish-washer, landscaper, construction worker, or any “unskilled” worker, even if there are jobs waiting for the person.
For any employment VISA you must have a skill and documentation to back it up. That means some kind of degree or certification plus a resume with verifiable references.
But as you examine any and all of the legislation out there there are only plans for temporary visas or “indentured servitude” visas that require the return to Mexico. And this only deals with people illegally here. It is no amnesty if you have to pay thousands in fines and fees. But I guaranteed if the law included this coupled with an “unskilled labor” VISA the problem would be solved and the immigrants would be here legally. (not to mention if each of the 11,000,000 estimated illegal immigrants paid an average of $1200 to $2000 in fees and fines, well just say that is a nice chunk of change. Believe me if the opportunity is there to be legal they will pay)(I have prepared immigration cases for legal residents applying for relatives and they will pay thousands to get it done.) Then what? What new myth would be created to continue to vilify these “legal” immigrants.
I say if you are not a racist (that means not you Pat Buchanan) and the only thing that bothers you is the failure to obey the immigration laws, (that means failing to get a visa and nothing more), then argue to your congressman to establish an “unskilled labor” VISA.
Of course corporations need this illegality to keep the wages down; if they are legal then how can you pay less than minimum wage?
That’s exactly right.
Bustednuckles 229
Thanks. Previous still going indeed, tho finally slowing down, & still awaiting further echoes from that charming visitor, last I looked. Some skulls are just thicker than others, I guess. I don’t think he quite trampled all the petunias beyond saving. *whew
For y’all: Several EPU’d comments on previous. Go look, if you’re bored & semi-adventurous.
Dear Christy!. I think “we” fed into current thread just barely in time before you come up with another winner/EPU opportunity. Don’t worry. I don’t think any of us used any bad woids ‘r nuttin’. *g*
YOU don’t have a fever now, do ya? You’re on fire today. Wonderful posts. I’ll never catch up. Gotta go now & let dear patient hubby use the machine a bit.
Hug the peanut for us. Hope you all can get some rest tonight, and that she’s beginning to feel better.
I’m afraid I feel on the outside of that clique anytime the talk is about pop music.
But Tha’s ok, because I’m really not one of the Kool Kidz when it comes to that. :)
Not sure what I was doing in the eighties and nineties, but it apparently wasn’t listening to the radio!
So many of you have already said what I’ve been feeling. Anne, you are one of the most eloquent people around. Busted Knuckles, Immanentize, and and and…. thank you.
John Casper finally brought me out of lurkdom a few weeks ago, when he stood up for a commenter who was being treated badly by some commenters. He gave me a feeling that it was now safe to come out and “test the water”.
But I still rarely come out to comment because I’ve been so disturbed by a general nastiness and intolerance, not just in the post the other night (which horrified me) and not by so-called “concern trolls” or new posters, but by regulars who fan the flames.
Punaise has it just right. The commenters have just as big a role to play in the tone of a thread as a moderator or a poster has. As someone who has worked in retail (and could tell some real war stories from the sales floor), it is always a mistake to respond to nastiness with nastiness. It will only escalate. A commenter can only disturb the conversation if he has an enabler. In addition to “Don’t feed the trolls”, perhaps we could add “Don’t fan the fire”.
I love the way Lotus often treats the nasty ones with humor. Something short and funny. It’s very disarming.
Like Anne, I really regret not standing up when I’ve felt someone was being treated badly and I don’t want to ever feel that way again.
Thank you to the moderators for all your hard work!
and OT: This overseas NY voter would appreciate anything that Op99 and Looseheadprop have to say about the NY senate race!
Anne – I appreciate everything you do.
Pfifferling,
Kind words. Thanks. I wouldn’t be too afraid to say some thing if I felt justified. I can understand it though. All I can say is, keep posting! get in the water and splash around. There’s folks who won’t let the ‘gators get ya.
I started commenting here on Christmas day 2005 after lurking for about 4 months.
The first post ever for me was intimidating, but when I posted, I was pleasantly surprised by the responses to that first post. The welcome mat was put out for me and I have stayed ever since.
Since then, FDL has become my community of choice. I read other sites, very rarely comment, but I can tell you, the civility, friendship, respect, is sorely missing.
The past few weeks has been catch as catch can,so I missed all of the apparent attacks, but Christy this site is AWESOME. The friends who have come up the walk, sat down on the front porch, stayed to converse here at FDL have become our family in a perilous time.
I would hate to think of where I would be if not for this community, it has kept my sanity.
There is so much friendship, compassion, caring, well, you all know what I am talking about. Thanks FDL community for all you do.
Looseheadprop, take care and get well soon.
Bustednuckles, as long as there are people like you here, I will!
shoephone @ 271
Thanks, shoephone – really don’t like making a big deal about the mod thing. There is stuff to deal with off and on, and maybe I’m missing something, but honestly, it’s not the overwhelming flood of spam and trolls that you might think.
Pfifferling, thanks for your kind remarks. Hope you’ll jump in more often!
Anne – It’s not only the moderating.
I think your comments are always articulate, insightful, and help move the conversation forward.
heee Anne at 274 — you should have seen it before we got all the porn crap loaded into the SPAM filter. (Nothing like a load of triple-X Grannies to gross you out.)
And anyway – the original Mods were “Mike, Linc and Julie – the blonde one”. Tough act to follow!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 278
Well, then – I guess my timing is pretty good! (or I missed out on all the fun, depending on your point of view…although XXX Grannies doesn’t sound too appealing – blergh – *g*)
Welcome, Pfifferling!!! Yea, John Casper!!!
As a general piece of advice for all of us — when you feel an overwhelming urge flame so-and-so for that (crappy, insensitive, trollish) comment, it’s time to step away from the keyboard.
Take a deep breath, chill out, and then think about what you want to say — how can you advance the discussion, calm the frayed nerves, and make everyone feel better?
shoephone – at the risk of this getting to be a mutual admiration society…right back atcha!
-ck- great advice…I usually ask myself if I would tell someone in my office that they’re an a-hole for having a particular opinion, and if the answer is “no,” I
biterein in mytonguefingers.Anne @ 282 -
This is just getting to be far too civil!
Hi firepups -
Just read the previous threads’ posts by sd – the values he evinces in those posts are despicable. The ignorance of the barriers posed by class is astounding (Americans – with the “Dream” hollowed out by forty years of Republican sabotage of the social fabric – have less class mobility than Western Europeans), and the false assumptions regarding medical diagnoses would be laughable, if the context were not so foul.
My medical school in Philadelphis drew heavily from white males in central Pennsylvania. There were many good people from that part of the world. I also met many who were not good, and who carried racist assumptions into all aspects of their interactions.
Before meeting those folks, I never imagined that some physicians were so ill themselves they hated and despised their own patients. It wasn’t until I studied psychiatry I learned that the medicla students and physicians who appeared to despise their patients were as ill as I now know them to be.
Steve Duncan, I don’t thank you for the hateful values you have shared, but I thank you for the opportunity to try to remind myself that even the most purulent opinions come from human beings who intrinsically merit compassion.
Time to get back to clinic.
Steve, the mental health programs in PA offer psychiatric help through the county mental health programs not yet defunded by the Rethugs. I’ve seen many “angry males” who – upon seeking diagnosis and treatment – have experienced a great increase in comfort and alleviation of symptoms.
Should you choose to share your county of residence, I would most willing to identify the contact for mental health services in your locality. This information may prove to be of use to angry males you encounter on the street – as well as any you may happen to encounter in the mirror.
And Steve – the values you have chosen to express do not lead to my conclusion that you are an angry male (though they do not dispel the impression). Your deliberate choices in communication – and the conflict they repeatedly engender – as well as your choices after the conflicts you choose to elicit – more than support the observation that your behavior is that of a very angry male.
How sad for you.
Cujo359 @ 235
Same here, but hey, looks very like it’s turning around as we type. FWIW, I thought Burner’s ad was OK, if I were a died-in-the-wool Repub who was wondering how my party got hijacked, I might give this girl a second look. If she’d come out all in-your-face Dem I might have shut her out. And I e-mailed her and told her so.
That said, I am wondering if just voting Dem is enough. I mean, Tasini’s anti-war, but not all Dems are. So, what if the Dems *do* get in and the war goes on anyway?
Disclosure: I am in Canada, although a dual citizen, and up here we are used to being lied to by politicians of avery political hue.
Way back in the day, when the web was first being used for things like this, in a much more primitive fashion, I became involved on a political discussion board that was NOT sold as a “community,” indeed, members of every point on the political spectrum were actively and consistently engaged.
You cannot imagine how ugly things got out there, if you think this stuff is ugly. You all are a veritable walk in the rose garden compared to the venom spit on that site. (It’s KILLING me I can’t remember the name now…)
Anyway, even back then but especially now, I don’t understand why people would get so bent out of shape about words on a screen. Unless you all actually “know” each other a whole heckuva lot better than I think you do, you HAVE to remember that this stuff isn’t personal, even if it feels that way. It can’t be, almost by definition, because we aren’t really capable of attacking a stranger personally.
So I often wonder what it is about the offended that makes them react so…personally? It’s great to be vested in this stuff emotionally; hell, that’s why most of us are here. You just have to have enough self-esteem reserves to take it if you are prone to dishing it out.
It’s politics. It gets rough. People should avoid personal attacks but a lot of what we talk about is personal. Imagine this place with an absence of personal attacks on Bush and Co.
It’s right up there with religion. People get very excitable. But jeez, lighten up.
How can you let a stranger get under your skin? They know NOTHING about you except what you write! Which hopefully is but a small part of your overall being. Think in terms of one of our more common complaints–the “inside the beltway” stuff between media and politics, the “cocktail weenie” circuit. Hell, think about Carville and Matalin. It IS possible to like someone with whom you disagree with politically. It can be used for both good and bad, like fire.
At least the folks out here give a crap. Cut each other some slack. I’m personally more of a lurker, but also a combative sort by virtue of coming from a large family where debate is pretty much a recreational sport, and learning from early on that you can love the opponent, but hate the debating point.
Christy, don’t babysit. You and the whole gang have enough on your plate to deal with without having to babysit.
Still one of the best sites on the net.
kirk murphy @ 283
km – The anger, or temp fury displayed by sd seems like a transitory thing. I’m no mental health pro, but I get the sense sd had is having a flare-up, acute as opposed to chronic. I mean that – like a little fire in the brain that’ll burn itself out. Maybe sd will regain wits…
Thank you Anne and ck. One lesson I’ve learned: stop sitting back and feeling upset when no one’s challenged an inappropriate comment or when no one has come to the defense of someone being treated unfairly. No one’s stopping me from (respectfully) jumping in and adding my 2 cents.
Mary at 213:
Tis indeed a great article! I even had to go back and re-read his article because there is so much depth in his words that not everything really sinks in the 1st time around.
Christy, Pach, TRex (and Jane if you’ve managed to find today’s landing strip in your homeward bound travels), a really serious question for you:
What would you think about inviting Michael Scheuer to join us here at FDL for a Book Salon-type session?
As per Harper’s, Michael is the formerly anonymous author of Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror and Through Our Enemies’ Eyes: Osama bin Laden, Radical Islam, and the Future of America.”
I don’t know or even care if he is a card-carrying, life-long Republican.
I’m just sayin’ that it seems Michael has some very progressive things to say about this train wreck called the GWOT, and that his is a voice that could use some amplification.
Hugh at 11:35
The CBO says that U.S. occupation force that could be sustained over the long term would comprise 67,000 to 106,000 military personnel.
Right now our troop levels are said to be around 130K-150K. I have also seen that number as high as 200K when you include the surrounding support troops in Kuwait and the like.
shoephone @ 277
I’m dating myself here, but Pete was the character, played by actor Michael Cole.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062589/
shoephone @ 284
*safely in EPU territory*
I agree.
So FUCK YOU ALL!!! YOU’RE ALL GOING TO BURN IN HELL YOU HIPPIE PINKO COMMIE FAGS!
:-)
ROFL Dr. Bong, so ‘ere, blow your fucking mind. ;)
Hand it ‘ERE after I’m done laughing….
Shez @ 294
Shez: Who’d-a-thunk you partook? I thot it wuz jes me ‘n lotus ‘n teddy ‘n ponyboy ‘n sodapop…
Ahhhhhhh – Much better!
*a couple minutes later*
Whoa! That’s some sneaky stuff…
lotus – you around? You GOTTA try this…
:-)
Oops! Sorry Busted forgot ’boutchoo!
‘Bong, you ignorant slut’
;>)
this really should be frozen after Dr. Bong’s at 293
vivian darkbloom @ 296
Glad it wasn’t for my sake.
You kin freeze ‘er now if ya want.
LOL Bong, I’ll put ya under the ole table any time ya want. Only my modern classic chic bob now hides my Inner Hippy. Heh
TPS! “The People Speak!” That was the name of the political website, lo those many years ago.
*whew* Glad I got that one out of the mental hard drive.
Anyway, the point I was clumsily trying to make is, you can respond civilly to any antagonistic commentary (”You must rise above,” my Mom always told me), you can laugh at the comments, or you can ignore the comments.
In my experience, all three drive the offender nuts. It’s ridiculous to get engaged emotionally with some people.
Regards, all, and great job.
John O
An Ad-fab & timely thread written by a classy and thoughtful lady. Thanks for your devotion and the time spent away from your family. What a role model the peanut has!
Peace to all!
ccmask at 302 — AbFab just seemed appropriate, somehow. *g* Who doesn’t love Edina and Patsy?
lisadawn82 @
162
Most elegant. And I agree.
(p.s.- I just much later noticed I spelled it differently- and that that might have come across wrongly. I didn’t even notice at the time!!!)
I swanny. I nevah thought I’d miss out on some prime doobage over a thundahsto’m!
Evil Parallel Universe @ 206
Very sadly I agree. I’m glad Christy has weighed in. Perhaps it will get things back on the right track. The other night was harsh in the extreme.
It is a pleasure to come to this site and not to have to deal with trolls…I don’t read comments at Huffington Post or Atrios anymore because of the hateful comments.
Keep up the great work!
Thanks for your thoughts Christy. There’s a thriving community at this site but to be truly effective you need converts. That’s the real challenge in the coming election and for the next two years.
If you can’t draw people in, it’s just noise, noise that doesn’t have the ability to attract people who are not already believers. These days it’s easy to develop an online community of people with similar interests or political beliefs. I can direct you to a number of outstanding and active knitting blogs.
I like the discussions at this site. But it will require a broader coalition of voters to take government away from the Neo-Cons, “GW no nothings” and Karl Roves.
You have to reach the Red State voters who have been voting and are willing to continue to vote against their core best interests. Rove knows the math. He knows who is likely to vote and who is likely not to. He knows the hot button issues for those Red State voters. To combat that takes discipline. It is in the way we oppose the Bush Administration that we give Republicans weapons which can defeat the cause so many here passionately write about.
I’m old. I remember being at an airport demonstration when Richard Nixon and Air Force One arrived. We were protesting the Vietnam War. Things turned ugly with language and obscene signs. A grizzled veteran reporter who had traveled with the President was walking along the fence where we were. He stopped in front of me and said, “you know you guys are giving Nixon exactly what he wants and needs?”
The Nixon Adminstration rode the “silent majority” for a long time. Perhaps if we were more disciplined in our activism we would have won earlier.
For those who questioned my questioning of the foul language that was getting too common on this site — I was a teamster and a journalist — two professions where people know how to swear.
Christy and all.
Sorry I had to miss most of this. Quick samples along the thread of comments just now tell me Christy has climbed another mountain.
And it sounds as if the firepups, both seasoned & newish, have responded to her wisdom as I hoped they would.
This is an amazing group! Thank you, everyone, for your commitment to accomplishing together something that none of us can do on our own.
Can’t stay long at the moment, but I look fwd to spending more time on this and nearby threads when I have more time. We grow in power by respecting eachother and understanding, as best we can, the different contributions and concerns that each dedicated person brings to the lake.
Thanks guys. I figure the group as a whole cleared a huge psychological hurdle this week. I’m gonna sleep better tonight.
‘nite Peanut. You have a terrific Mom & Dad. ;->
CHS–sorry to miss the discussion on civility, hope we can carry on another time [but no liquids in the carryons].
Was in WV with family, saw beautiful mountains and amazing birds, thought of you.
Anyone want toast?
egregious @ 312
from one of our posters [?wondering] from an alcoholic/abusive family when things started getting too dangerous…