
Hi, folks. Patrick, twin brother of fearsome sauropod (snarkopod?) TRex, here. I have a little experience studying electoral behavior and I have been doing some thinking about how the netroots (does anyone mind if I call them the ToobzRoots from now on?) have affected the electoral playing field and incumbency. Ned Lamont’s victory on August 8th and the continued success of the ToobzRoots turns a lot of conventional wisdom about campaigning on its ear. At a time of political upheaval, incumbency becomes as much a handicap as an asset, and the ToobzRoots seem to be greasing the rails.
Let’s examine:
Political scientists diverge on this topic, but many of them agree on these three primary advantages for the incumbent:
1. Name Recognition- In most races involving an incumbent, voters are at least passingly familiar with the Candidate, if for no other reason than they’ve heard his name on the news. Many voters, especially in primaries where party identification is not a factor in deciding between Congressman Critter and The Challenger, the choice is between The Devil We Know and the Unknown Commodity. Voters have a tendency to chose the former, especially in a vacuum of new information. The way that voters have historically been introduced to the candidates and the issues being considered has been through the Op-Ed pages of corporate media. This is how you get "debates" that read something like "Congressman Critter: Great Guy? or rilly, Rilly, RILLY Great Guy?"
2. Fund Raising Advantages- There is a pipeline of lobbyist cash that runs from the K Street offices of Big Pharma, the NRA, the AMA, defense contractors and corporate lobbyists right into the campaign warchest of Congressman Critter. Money is oxygen in campaigns. (Or water , as the case may be…)
3. Constituent Services/Porkbarrel Projects- I hate to lump constituent services in with Porkbarrel projects, but they serve essentially the same purpose for incumbents: Good PR. Historically, American citizens have been able to call the offices of their Senator or Representative and ask for stuff. If a constituent needs a passport application expedited or if they have a son or daughter who needs a recommendation to the Air Force Academy or West Point, they contact the Congressman’s office and someone on staff sees that it gets done. This also used to work for things like street, school and playground repair. If City Hall was unresponsive (or apparently so), one could call Congressman Critter’s office, and he could break the logjam (or light a fire under some people) and get things done. This made people very happy, and they would then carry that warm, fuzzy feeling about Congressman Critter to a family reunion, Elks Lodge, Little League practice or neighborhood barbecue and say "Man, I may not agree with Congressman Critter’s position on Affirmative Action, but he really helped me out of a jam/got that pothole fixed/got a new roof for the high school."
However, as the 435 Representatives and 100 Senators have seen exponential growth in the number of constituents that they serve, the utility of campaigning one household at a time has faded. Additionally, people don’t congregate the way that they used to in this country, spending more time indoors (cable TV) and less in public spaces (PTA, Rotary Club, public pools, etc). The advent of local newscasts in the late ’70s and early ’80s, however, created a new way for Congressman Critter to enhance his standing with voters in his community. While newspapers had provided some utility at getting the message out, local news broadcasts brought us a whole new era of Ribbon Cutting Ceremonies. Congressman Critter campaigns hard to get a federal project or factory to move to the district, then shows up on Ribbon Cutting day so that the mayor can say "Folks, Congressman Critter has worked really hard to bring the McDonnell-Douglas cruise missile factory to Smallville. Not only does it give the citizens of Smallville a hand in securing our country against the Red Threat, we also get 200 new jobs! Thanks, Congressman Critter!"
Thus, Critter gets butter on both sides of his toast- he gets a little pat on the head (usually right into his campaign fund) from the defense contractor for allowing them to build a factory in the most economically depressed part of his district (probably waiving their property taxes for ten years in the bargain), as well as getting some love from the voters for bringing home some jobs. Win/win. It’s good to be the King.
However, the ToobzRoots are eroding these advantages.
On August 8th, TRex was sending me minute by minute text messages from Lamont HQ. I was pulling for Ned, but knowing what I know about the Power of Incumbency, I was cautiously optimistic. However, as midnight drew closer, I was stunned and amazed. The next morning, I woke up and started writing. Here are the New Rules for Incumbents that I came up with:
1. Your largest donors are not your constituency. They’re your mistress. The voters know this (and if they don’t, plan for your opponent to tell them). MoveOn.org and ActBlue are making it easier than ever for rank and file voters to support candidates. This blunts the edge of special interests to run Capitol Hill. This is democracy in action and it scares the hell out of a lot of very powerful people.
2. Don’t run against a reform candidate by beating on your "experience" and your "record." This is like campaigning against an alligator by announcing that you’re actually a smoked turkey. Also, don’t send your corporate lobbyist homeboys out to campaign for you . It doesn’t really enhance your image.
3. The voters aren’t stupid. Individually, you may find that they have gaps in their knowledge and their experience, but collectively they fill each other in. While Americans may not congregate over barbecue grills and at Church Camps like they used to, they sure do meet and talk here. I lurk in the comments here all day, and I watch the conversations happening. I am sure that people log off from FDL and Daily Kos only to carry their newfound knowledge to supper tables and barber shops, hunt cabins and the break room at work. You can’t fool all of the people any more, especially now that they’re pissed.
4. Black voters are not a windup toy, and they remember Katrina. Do not condescend to them. I found the overt race baiting of the Lieberman Campaign to be profoundly offensive. I imagine that People of Color were REALLY pissed. The race gambit is getting a little threadbare, even in places like Virginia . It’s time to engage Black voters as American voters and it’s time to stop trotting out tired old stereotypes to manipulate voter behavior.
5. Poor people aren’t stupid and they’re pissed. The gap between rich and poor is growing rapidly, now even more so due to the rising cost of energy. There is one group of people in this country who do not know this. These people are rich. See #1. It’s not class warfare, it’s gas warfare. All of this is happening while the Petroleum Industry is ROLLING IN CASH. Look, no one is going to vote for Friends of Scrooge McDuck in 2006.
6. Do not speak to the voters (or on the record with media) about blogs. You may as well talk to the public about astrology or hieroglyphics. Nobody reads blogs.
7. Do not talk privately to the media and pundits as if blogs don’t exist, because they are all reading them. Everybody reads blogs.
8. The race for your career will not take place in DC. You cannot campaign from the floor of the Senate or the House, unless you have kept #1 in mind since 2001. Most of you have not. Go home and talk to the voters. Go early, go often. Also, see #2 and #3.
9. Stop listening to losers about how you should campaign. AND STOP PAYING LOSERS TO GIVE YOU ADVICE. No one should ever listen to Bob Shrum again. Ever. About anything.
What’s the upshot of all of this? Specifically, Joe Klein doesn’t get to decide how the voters talk about Ned Lamont. Jane, Matt Stoller, Digby and Glenn Greenwald are facilitating discussions that don’t hide Congressman Critter’s cozy relationship with Big Pharma.
This also means that incumbents don’t get to rely on their traditional head starts in funding, media access and voter recognition. A lot of powerful and spoiled people are having their power threatened. That’s because people like you are more involved than ever. I think that this is a good thing. Democracy is working.
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- Health Care: Jim McGovern Sets Them Up, Knocks Them Down in the Rules Committee
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Bradley Graham, By His Own Rules: The Ambitions, Successes and Ultimate Failures of Donald Rumsfeld
- Actual Action At the House Rules Committee On The Health Care Bill: Stupak Amendment To Get Floor Vote





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Snarkopod? Love it!
Fitz!
Oh Susan!
Also “black voters are not a windup toy” is a wonderful metaphor. And the bit about alligators and smoked turkey. So, Patrick, got the family snark gene and gift for writing, eh?
Welcome, and great insights as awlays, Patrick.
I agree that too many voters just go for the NAME they recognize, but why would such people, who are so uninformed (that they don’t know about the challenger) go to vote?
I’ve been trying to say Toobzroots without getting spit on my keyboard. Not working.
Susan in Iowa @
4
You’re very kind. If you could see how effortlessly TRex spins his blog entries out vs. how many hours of virtual pencil chewing it takes me, you’d understand which one of us really has The Gift.
peterr at # 192 in the previous thread made this comment:
“Again, the contrast between the vision of his web staff and the ad staff is stunning”
referring to Courage’s and Burner’s web pages compared to reviewed ads. Very prescient and it ties into Patrick’s (welcome, Patrick!) points, too.
Old school stuff is beginning to fall by the wayside right, left and everywhere.
Pachacutec @ 5
Thanks, Pac.
I really enjoyed your entry today, too.
I had to relearn the lesson today that Safari and the paid version of WordPress don’t mix- the first draft of this (which, I think, was funnier) disappeared into the ether.
I had to take a long lunch break to manage my disappointment.
I wouldn’t say your largest campaign donors are your “mistress”; I’d say they’re your johns.
Pardon me if this link has already been on here:
http://fabulouswedding.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
patrick – are you sure about the spelling? i thought it was ToobzRootz
selise @ 13
Whatever works fer you guys. I just like that it makes me laugh to say it.
I think Rule 7 has a subpart about how themes that appear in the blogs get repeated and amplified in other media, often without attribution, of course. With the help of people like Froomkin and Olbermann, more MSM types are waking up to the giant conversation happening on line. When they talk and write about it, more people find out about blogs, and send links to their friends. It’s amazing how one person, Spazeboy, could upload videos from a spot on the sidewalk somewhere, and thousands of people saw them.
patrick… 13 wasn’t meant to be a serious comment….i suppose that i just wanted an excuse to write it… makes me laugh too! thanks for the chuckle and the excellent analysis.
Nice, but the gender-specific term “Congressman” needs updating to, oh, at least the 1970s.
Indeed, that’s partly where “Congresscritter” comes from — gender neutrality.
This afternoon I was fortunate to be included in a bloggers’ conference call with Ohio gubernatorial candidate Ted Strickland. I’ve transcribed the first part (about the first third of the half hour call) here.
More than just talking to the voters, try also listening to them. After sending Boxer an email a while back, I was added to her PACs email listserv. No problem – completely expected.
The problem is that she appears to view “talking with the voters” as a one-way street: “here’s what I know – now go and do/go and vote for me.” No sense from her that she or anyone on her staff has read the emails I’ve sent, and no sense that she or anyone on her staff cares to hear what I say.
Talk to the voters, by all means – but listen when they talk to you.
OK, folks-
I am about to nip out and go for a run.
Thanks for the input, and I will check back later to see if I have been spectacularly refuted for the blind spot in my essay that I didn’t think of…
Almost forgot to mention, tonight at 7pm EST, On Point, with sub host John Hockenberry, will be about the limits of executive power with Laurence Tribe and Douglas Kmiec, constitutional lawyers. I heard a little of it this morning, interesting discussion. You can listen at:
wbur boston
H E L L O , Patrick!
Patrick, this is a great analysis. I hope you’re right, but so far we have a limited sample of “Toobzroots”-influenced elections to draw on. I think you have the principles set out pretty well, but it may take a couple of election cycles before I’m prepared to jump all the way onto your bandwagon.
I don’t have friends, only interests.
And a Money Bin.
Patrick, good article. You may give the average voter too much credit, but there are certainly informed ones around, and it might be good to play to that audience for a change.
Slight correction: McDonnell-Douglas has two ‘l’s, and, of course, is now owned by The Boeing Company.
Patrick, nail this to your forehead -
Awesome Piece
Cujo359 @
25
that nit you picked has been corrected — thanks !
Patrick- Have you seen this GOP online fundraising tactic? GOP = B2B – WTF? RawStory ran it under the headline, “GOP Gives 30% Cut to Online Fundraisers“
Although the liberal netroots are growing in power we still seem to be lagging way behind in actually doing what’s necessary to harness that reach and internet muscle. Your brother left me a comment on the article and I’d be curious for your take as well here.
Hi Patrick, great to see you here! How are the pups and your garden?
Great points, nobody reads the blogs, everybody reads the blogs. That’s what’s really getting to them, they have no idea. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Nice Patrick. Seems like the perfect tone. And that Shrum!!!
Hey, Zenn! What’s the story on your computer situation?
My brother is so cool. He’s really the political brain in the family. I’m just a big lizard with a lot of opinions.
this year the blogs hit Hoosier politics — on the surface, things appear tranquil but online, it’s nuclear warfare. I’ve always been a ‘political pitbull’ but have had to ‘be nice’. Now I can slug it out … it’s fun!
I think a 30% cut would destroy the credibility of liberal netroots. People like to think that their money is going to win elections.
So off-thread, and so, so worth it. Finally, a Flash piece amusing enough to watch all the way through.
Catchy little tune too…now, if I can only get it out of my head…
….hee hee…Gary Lee Stewart is a punning genius.
By the way… Is Shrum officially working on anyone’s campaign this year?
A big amen to “Stop paying losers to give you advice”!
In that same vein, I’m still chewing on Pach’s observation from the last thread that GOP ad folks are paid a flat fee, while Dems pay a percentage of the ad buy to the consultants. The old econ major in me about blew a gasket.
If they’re worth it, put them on a payroll and give them a salary – not a commission! If they’re not worth it, punt their tails to the street and find some folks who are. Try looking at web sites whose message you like, and see who designed them. (Thanks for moving that comment up, Ed*ard Teller!)
Well, this is not pretty but Kerry gets another gold star.
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3932
New Rules for Incumbents? Or Same Bolshoi, Different Medium?
From OC Blog/Red County:
http://www.ocblog.net/ocblog/2….._fris.html
I guess it depends on where the candidate sits.
Chimpy’s ham-handed mismanagement inspires a “crisis of confidence” in Afghanistan.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0822.html
Add that to his “wounded psyche” rant against Americans yesterday and I say we have the inklings of a failed presidency showing up in the mass media.
-GSD
zennurse @ 37
You’re right on both counts. (Too bad the media can avoid publicizing their own self-immolations.)
Patrick- thanks- really great post. I hope you will be back soon.
So: “If you could see how effortlessly TRex spins his blog entries out vs. how many hours of virtual pencil chewing it takes me”- hmmm all this time I thought TRex worked really hard on his posts- at least the non-cat ones ;).
So, OT, but a question I’ve posed before, but never had answered- are you and TRex identical or fraternal twins?
And, I especially liked this: “2. Don’t run against a reform candidate by beating on your “experience” and your “record.” This is like campaigning against an alligator by announcing that you’re actually a smoked turkey.” hehe. Lieberman = smoked turkey.
TRex, my computer is home, but what a comedy. I went to Best Buy today and they looked for me in the computer, no me, no evidence of my repair report. Then the guy traced it by the serial number and it turned up my son’s computer repair report from June! Same exact computer (good price, I bought two so I could give one to a kid) but repair was done in CA for my son who lives in NM. The computer has been back for a week, but they left a message on his cellphone. He probably thought it was a mistake because he already had his back.
What a trip. Anyway, I have my honey home and have all my bookmarks and my speed and my flash and my Firefox (I hate IE).
Thanks for your advice, I’ll look at Macs next time. This one is only 8 months old.
Also, interestingly, there was no service report so why it died is a complete mystery.
Fine post, Patrick.
karen allen @ 12
Too funny … I especially liked “tulips on the organ.”
GSD- re: “wounded psyche”- and I did wonder where in the bejeezus Bush got that term- i.e. who mouthed it to him? Or has he really been reading Camus?
zennurse @ 37
That’s great research. Good catch!
WAITER: What would you like for dinner, sir?
BOB SCHRUM: I’ll have the liver and onions.
WAITER: Shut Up!!! Nobody orders that — what are you, stupid or something?
Valley Girl @ 44
I doubt that. Besides, if he actually had a clue what he was talking about, he might have worried a bit more about saying, in effect, “fuck the American psyche.”
#9 “Stop listening to losers about how you should campaign”
It’s my understanding is that Senator Clinton has thirteen “consultants”. Speaking of losers…
zennurse @ 3:53 pm (#37) – Well, this is not pretty but Kerry gets another gold star.
Right on both counts.
Your daily gas and oil prices
Average price for regular gasoline 8/22/06 in 50 states and DC
$3.00 plus 18 states
$2.90 plus 12 states
$2.80 plus 16 states
$2.70 plus 5 states
Average national price: $2.923, down $.006
Highest recorded national average price: $3.057 9/5/2005
Highest average price: Hawaii $3.352
Lowest average price: Ohio $2.716
Nymex Crude Future $72.93, up $.38
Dated Brent Spot $72.44, down $.55
WTI Cushing Spot $72.63, up $.18
On 8/10/06, the national average for regular gas was $3.036. It has since fallen 11 cents in almost as many days although the fall has slowed since yesterday. Oil is marking time looking for the next crisis.
You guys? I have no idea what I’m going to write about tonight for Late Nite.
*sigh*
Tick…tick…tick…
it’s just past 3 am in Baghdad and the temperature is still 95ºF but it’s going to get up to 115ºF in the afternoon …
Bush is a wounded psycho.
-GSD
TRex @
51
you could write about the role of the political composer in society using the examples of Lord Benjamin Britten, Kurt Weill and Richard Wagner …
Well done, Patrick.
Some more grist for the mill is a point I have made a few times on this site. The Corporate media sucks up vast sums of money for Candidates to advertise their messages.
The toobzrootz (I would love to hear Daffy Duck say that!) advertise candidates messages for free, AND give them the opportunity for us to pay them.
Sort of a tectonic shift, wouldn’t you say? Imagine when the toobzrootz get popular!
zennurse @ 37
Great catch, zennurse.
Kaplan snidely responded to Kerry saying, “Isn’t that your job not ours?”
John Kerry proceed to give Jonathan Kaplan a quick lesson in what the role of the media really is — “We communicate through you,” Kerry said. “We need to invite you to hold them accountable… We speak but if it doesn’t get out there, the American people don’t hear it.”
Oh how I wish he had responded: Well, I guess it’s my job if all you want to be when you grow up is a stenographer. But I was under the mistaken impression you were trying to be a journalist.
Peterr:
I have no idea where in CA you live, but is it close to SF? If so, have you heard of Bernie Ward? He used to work for Boxer in DC. (He was the one who found out about the $1500 toilet seats.) He still talks to Boxer, but he is as frustrated as we are.
TRex- you could follow up the Gerstein piece with one with the special TRex flair about Lanny Davis. Here’s something to get you going:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..27794.html
Nicely done, Patrick (and I agree completely about Shrum — kind of like recycled failed CEOs who keep getting big paydays).
Has any pollster asked 2004 Bush voters if they would still vote for him knowing what they do now? All of the American people should not be misunderestimated all of the time, but do you even try to reach the ones whose knee-jerk is always to the right?
OT — I still don’t see RGJoe going to SecDef because the next secretary will have an enormously difficult job and imho he/she’d want enough authority to be able to go in a strongly different direction. That’s not going to happen with Bush/Cheney around. Unlike Paulson at Treasury, RGJoe won’t have tens of millions as incentive.
TRex @ 51
Wait’ll you get a load of what is sittin’ in CHS email box!
TRex @ 51
TRex!
How about:
Informality a Reflection of Bush’s Style
http://rawstory.com/showarticl…..=printable
Maybe:
The Bush administration has begun designating as secret some information that the government long provided even to its enemy the former Soviet Union: the numbers of strategic weapons in the U.S. nuclear arsenal during the Cold War.
http://brilliantatbreakfast.bl…..alter.html
Or:
Snakes on a plane?
Wouldn’t “ToobzRoots” just be… Toobers? Or maybe Potatoobs?
TRex @ 51
I’ve been thinking an ATTACK!! ATTACK!! ATTAAAAAAACK!!!! piece would be lovely.
Valley Girl @
44
Mama Hughes has given up trying to mind-meld with the Muslim world and has returned in order to un-peel the grilled-cheese sandwich brain of George W. before he starts speaking in tongues at the next Whitehouse press conference.
-GSD
*ilson46201 @ 54
Or how about the role of the political decomposer in society using the examples of George W. Bush, Katherine Harris and Joe Lieberman?
Come to think of it, that’s pretty much every night, isn’t it?
Oh, thank God.
The entire Pittsburgh Airport appears to be banned, but my hotel isn’t. That would be bad.
*ilson46201 @ 54
Write one called “no one could have anticipated…” then link to all the shit these dopes didn’t anticipate. Call it the idiot defense.
Then, when the inevitable Atrios link happens, with its attendent 894 comments, we will split the sweet, crazy blogad revenue.
What? You weren’t actually soliciting ideas? “Can’t wait to read my blog” snark? Well, I never!
Forget it.
Gray — I never volunteered for the Army — ever — and you were censored for repeatedly wanting to call somebody a ‘retard’ and when you were told it was inapropos, you persisted.
Fuckwad, begone …
Tick…tick…tick…
civility in the blogland
Tick…tick…tick…
SPOOOOOOOOON!!!!
I am Mighty! I have a glow you cannot see!
Err… ahem. Sorry.
There is no spoon
Spill it, OFG. What’s in Christy’s mailbox?
Why do I feel dirty for having written that sentence?
*ilson46201 @
66
I got him.
TRex @ 73
Sounds like you have a bit of a roach problem.
tommy yum- well, I got a good laugh out loud from that comment- and that is a so rare it deserves special mention. “The Idiot Defense” – hmm, that might be just too great a topic for TRex to address at short notice, but I hope he puts it on his late night list/ calendar.
Oh, TRex, I suppose as a fallback you could talk about NPR.
tommy yum @ 70
A nonsensical parody waiting for the Darkblack touche.
Hello VG! We haven’t “spoken” since you got back from CT. I heard you made a hand out there. Wish I could have helped more than just donate.
TRex/Patrick —
How about a picture of you two? A child picture …. LOL
C’mon — we’d love it!
Kak #59:
IIRC, just such a poll was done several months ago and had Kerry winning by 10 percentage points.
Snark in stereo!
Shell @ 57
I’m in the Bay Area, and Bernie’s name rings a bell but I can’t place it. On the one hand, it’s always nice to know it’s not just me, but on the other hand, I almost wish it was!
OFG: “I heard you made a hand out there.” ???
TRex @ 51
Clocks?
Bombs?
Tiny woodland insects that can carry lyme disease?
Clocks on bombs on insects?
Bombs on insects on clocks?
Insects on clocks on bombs?
Just no snakes on planes . . .
ralphbon @
11
And by extension, they’re OUR johns, and the incumbent is our pimp, cause in the final analysis, WE’RE the ones being screwed.
Josh Marshall (I know, I know) surmises that the rethugs are not countering Democratic polling numbers with their own because the numbers are so bad that they are compelled to withhold them:
Peterr- I suppose TRex could write something like “My troubled relationship with Michelle M- can this marriage be saved?”
Chris Matthews is discussing the Time cover story on Hillary. Matthews makes the observation that many people don’t like Clinton but “can’t put their finger on it”. Speaking for myself only I have but one problem with Senator Clinton. Iraq.
The new SUSA Poll for Governors is out.
So, how come the constant mantra is about “when will Bush rebound”….and not how low can the Republicans sink.
Look at this detritus that is circling the drain. They were supposed to be THE PERMANANT REPUBLICAN MAJORITY. They had all the money, the power, the nation was on Bush and the Republicans side after 9/11.
Now look at them. Losers, losers, losers. They are all trying to attach themselves to the 3 time loser, Giblet Joe Lieberman.
When will the calcified Jonbenet Media pick up on this mantra? How did the Republican Party sink so far so fast?
48 Kentucky (R) Fletcher, Ernie 24%
49 Alaska(R) Murkowski, Frank 19%
50 Ohio (R) Taft, Bob R 17%
-GSD
Peterr @ 84
No, seriously! He’s nigh-invulnerable!
Peterr –
Bernie is a radio talk show host on KGO (810) — 10:00 weeknights. He also has God Talk on Sunday mornings. But don’t let that fool you. He is no holy roller.
A few years back, he was given a national talk show, but — as usual — even with the highest ratings for his timeslot, he was canned. (Shades of Phil Donahue.)
al-Scooter @ 4:38 pm
Only 10%?
Have a link/good google term (I’m coming up empty)?
Thanks.
Could any of that 40% (ish) who’d still vote for Bush be peeled off in future elections? Or a lost cause? I don’t know why this is bothering me so much. What do these 10s of million of voters consistently “see”? Or what motivates them? I know Dean’s book has some insight to this (looking forward to the Book Salon) but is there any message on our part that could get them to change their outlook?
Eli @ 4:28 pm (#66) – The entire Pittsburgh Airport appears to be banned, but my hotel isn’t. That would be bad.
What has it been banned from? Consorting with other airports? Sorry if I’ve missed something.
Valley Girl @ 80
Sorry, lapsed into “Oilfield talk.” A hand–is short for a helping hand–it is a very good thing. “Out there” of course, is Connecticut.
In other words, I heard you were very helpful in the Lamont primary victory. I have known a few candidates, that had more money than volunteers. Every boot on the ground is worth its weight in gold.
Anyways, hello and welcome back.
Eli @ 66
Airport? Hotel? I knew I felt a breeze, and my hair blew back. Are these the newest fruits of our fine Homeland Security’s drive to elect…er protect us?
Valley Girl @ 86
Topped by a darkblack masterpiece: a TRex/MM wedding photo, a TRex/MM pie fight, Dr. Phil standing between TRex and MM, . . .
ah, the possibilities!
Shell @ 90
Do you get the feeling it was because he got the highest ratings in his timeslot? He is very anti-corporate. My mom used to love to listen to Bernie’s God Talk show on Sundays. I can get it up here north of Sacramento, and sometimes I listen to it just to remind me of her. Plus, I like his show.
What has it been banned from? Consorting with other airports? Sorry if I’ve missed something.
Oh, I apparently can’t comment here when I’m on the Pittsburgh Airport wifi network. It’s a minor and very transitory nuisance.
Shell @ 90
Bingo! Now I remember. Of course, I’m generally busy myself on Sunday mornings ;) . . . but now I’m with you. Thanks for jogging my memory!
So sorry I don’t have time to read the other comments here first — will attempt to catch up later. Just want to say that you’ve offered a great analysis, Patrick. And thanks for the hopefulness which isn’t just “wishing on a star,” but is grounded instead in reality.
However –
May I offer a lingo suggestion?
Let’s make it the singular “Toob” – the plural is too hard to pronounce.
Let’s call it Toobrootz instead. What do ya say?
Of course, some folks may hear it as “Two Brutes” instead (Patrick and TRex?!?). I’ll let y’all decide if the homonymic disadvantage is greater than the impossible pronunciation disadvantage.
Be back later, y’all. Hugs to all Firepups!
OFG: “I heard you were very helpful in the Lamont primary victory.”– now that is hyperbole if I ever heard it. I was helpful in organizing stuff when the Meriden staff was compiling their own polling results, and in driving across the state to do a few things. I would say that the Lamont campaign and the involvement of Jane in writing about it were truly helpful to me!!!
i think you can just boil it down to:
people aren’t stupid. stop acting like they are.
Eli — you are getting momentarily trapped by automod but you are sprung promptly… hit F5 to refresh (reload) the page
TRex:
An analysis of Bush’s presser would be nice
skippy @ 102
How is it that Republicans keep winning elections based entirely on a strategy that only works on stupid people. Well, okay, bigots, cowards, and assholes in general too…
Peterr- ah!!! I like your creative extension of the marriage theme. And, as a pastor, of course you can act as the spiritual advisor. Alas, TRex has vanished, and there is no evidence that he is reading our suggestions. It’s hard to imagine, but maybe TRex was just whining, and not actually asking for constructive input…. ;)
*ilson46201 @ 103
Oh, I don’t have a problem now. I’m saying that when I was trying to comment from the Pittsburgh Airport, my comments were going nowhere at all, no matter how many times I hit F5.
It’s no biggie; I’m just glad it’s *only* the airport (and my Treo, for some reason).
Eli @ 103
Because when it comes to stupid, nobody does it better than the DC Dems.
TRex,
it takes a lot of pressure to make a diamond.
tick…tick…tick
I bet he knocks it outta the park.
Hey *ilson, this is OT, but I was thinking about your during the book salon discussion- 50 things- and I would be interested to know your perspective on poll watching (?)- that is, standing outside polling place representing a particular candidate. With your long experience in political campaigns you must have done this more than a few times. Does it help? Does it hurt? etc.
I wrote this last thread, a couple hours ago, but then had to do a bunch of work stuff.
a little emotional self expression. I apologize if it is too late and doofus-y.
lately it seems like this place has occasionally risen from picnic to cocktail party to kegger. the numbers have risen and time is ticking toward the mid-term elections (about which we all feel so strongly).
it’s tense. the kind of time and situation where people’s different tendencies (stressed=loud / stressed=cautious, etc) are guaranteed to come into conflict.
at an actual party, where physical bodies are in the room, it is easier to clump into sympatico groups. individuals can communicate with those they commune well with, and all the ideas filter up to the group-think level – “Hey, those guys smoking on the back porch had some really crazy ideas! What is going on in the kitchen?”
at a virtual party, where everyone has to share the same speech bubble, as it were, it can’t really work that way –
I am very sympathetic to a lot of the comments people have posted regarding strong language, forceful tactics, allegedly group-ish mentality, though I personally conclude that she who pays the piper calls the tune.
or in this case, the tone. As far as my own emotional responses to these issues on this blog, I try to apply the torque-wrench of humility to myself and defer to the proprietors and the moderators they have chosen get to set the tone and the parameters.
your experience may differ.
felt impelled to post this, because the vibe from a lot of commenters is that the high waves in pool weren’t safe to swim in, and there is a feeling to me that it hurts folks when they don’t feel welcome here. hoping that seeking a common imagery of what exactly the boards here are might help everybody set their boundary levels.
Gray @ 97
I’m not a moderator – just a frequent member of the community – but there’s been plenty of talk about what you term “rules of engagement.” Try walking through a bunch of threads, and you’ll get the idea.
One head start: insulting the proprietors of a joint – any joint, virtual or otherwise – is never a good idea, if you want to stick around and enjoy the ambiance. “IMHO” (to quote you) is a good place start – try stressing the “H” a little more, and you’ll be fine. Try raising your voice like you own the place, and . . . well, you’ve already gotten a taste of that.
Kak #92:
I’m pretty sure this isn’t the poll I remember, but the results are close:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0809.html
As to your profound question, I suspect that there are a mix of reasons for voting either for W or against Kerry. For example, any number of ex-military friends of mine have never forgiven Kerry for his 1971 antiwar speech to Congress, viewing it as some kind of betrayal. There are a lot of people who still recoil in horror at the 1960s and want to undo it, etc.
As to the next election, it depends on the matchups and the situation at the time. Messages have some power to persuade, but the candidate behind the message has to resonate with voters to be effective.
Valley Girl @ 109
Got confused there for a moment. Where I am, poll watchers are actually inside the polling place (sent there by candidates or committees) and have the right under certain circumstances, to challenge a voters right to cast a vote. The polling commissioner writes it all down and puts it in a special envelope to go to the Clerk of Court. If I recall correctly, there were a LOT of challenges in the 2000 presidential election…part of the rethuglican strategy.
at an actual party, where physical bodies are in the room, it is easier to clump into sympatico groups.
I’m getting a bit verclumped :~)
As to the next election, it depends on the matchups and the situation at the time. Messages have some power to persuade, but the candidate behind the message has to resonate with voters to be effective.
Here’s a question: Even if the “macaca” incident is not enough to cost George Allen the VA election, is it enough to torpedo any chance at the White House?
Iran should say to the U.S that: ‘we will stop our nuclear program and allow international inspectors in, when Israel does the same’. Sounds fair. At least to me.
Patrick –
One word: crystalline.
TRex –
Lawd, I don’t have a clue what to expect from you later either, but if you could favor us now with a report on whether you got to see Little E in time, and how that went, I know I won’t be the only one grateful.
OFG –
Now the other day when BarbaraB and I were a-speculatin’ about future scholarship on Firedoglake . . . well, just don’t you be thinking that I missed that cute leetle hint you dropped. Care to elaborate?
Shell at 78 –
Oh yeah, HOW we’d love it! (And just think how long it might come in handy for certain of our nefarious purposes. heh heh heh)
NefLes (come to think of it) –
Where you be, grrrrl?
the last impression a voter has of a candidacy is the volunteer with a handout just outside the voting place. That last-minute impression can validate a wavering voter to go one way or another.
On Election Day, I always dress up nicely and smile constantly around voters. I try to greet everybdoy cheerfully. I want them to think ‘nice thoughts’ about Democrats as they cast the vote!
It looks like “overbearing censoring mods” is the new troll meme, eh?
Re the tone of recent threads . . .
Kind of reminds me of some of the religious threads a ways back. “How dare you say . . . ” When someone hits on things that are close to people’s hearts, folks get more than a little touchy. There was also a fair amount of undefined/poorly defined language being tossed around, which didn’t help.
We’ll get through it. There’s an incredible amount of strength in this community, even when it gets testy.
And gray, bla, et al . . . opinions are one thing; abuse is another. It’s not hard to sort them out.
(I know, I know . . . don’t feed the trolls.)
Oh, and there’s a new thread upstairs.
LindyH- yes- I am confused about the terminology also- that is why I put in the (?). When I first heard the term “poll watcher” in CT, I assumed the same as you said- being inside. But, that was the term I heard for standing outside. I don’t have much experience, and I would like to know what the appropriate terms are for the different jobs. Thx.
Gray — This is an adaptation of the advice I used to give my son: Imagine someone you really admire. Imagine that person is also reading this blog. Imagine that person knows who you are.
Then blog away!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 88
Yeah, and he has the tremendously vapid Kornblut & Cox to cluck on about it. That’s great tee vee!
Lieberman is giving bloggers lots to write about. Just take JL’s interview on CNN with Glen Beck, in which JL agreed with about everything Beck said, and then compare that to the “I’m a normal, loyal Dem” image he tried to portray on the CNN’s Situation Room.
Greg Sargent on Josh has excerpts on the Glen Beck exchange at:
http://electioncentral.tpmcafe…..ld_war_iii
As Lieberman continues to try to be all things to all wingers, he’s bound to destroy his own credibility. Now he seems to agree with Beck that we’re already in WWIII.
OT–BargainCountertenor, if you’re still around from last thread…
I realized since that although it makes sense, I was repeating a bit of conventional wisdom that is actually statistically testable–and which I bet has never been (publicly at least) subjected to that test. So I feel bad–but it might make an interesting paper for a statistician ;)
punaise @ 112
I guess I’ll just talk amongst my cells
Linda –
Yes, I got that SAME impression. I guess the only way a progressive can get a national show, and STAY on, you have to be on a really progressive STATION (like Air America).
ralphbon at 3:18p
perhaps pimps more-so?
*ilson- I was told to wear my Lamont t-shirt. Other than that, I smiled etc. I was given “palm cards” to hand out, but I really did not feel comfortable trying to get people to take these, especially if they were in the “don’t talk to me” body language mode. People were more chatty after they voted, however. But, two youngun’s that also worked for a time were more aggressive in trying to engage people, and I didn’t think that that “worked”. That was my first “poll standing” effort, so I was interested in your perspective. Thx.
astralplame @ 127
or you could put up a diary at Daily Kosmosis
lotus –
“Oh yeah, HOW we’d love it! (And just think how long it might come in handy for certain of our nefarious purposes. heh heh heh)”
Darn! You gave him a head’s up! Now he will never do it! ROFL
astralplame #111:
Not being the resident social scientist here, I can’t really take this observation very far, but every group (or community?) goes through stages of development that call for periods of testing and reaffirming group norms.
There’s a model called “forming-storming-norming” (I’d credit the author if I could remember, but I can’t type and wiki at the same time) that might describe what I see happening beyond the usual troll storms. It’s a naturally-occurring process (if that’s what’s really happening), but I’m sure that FDL’s plenty strong enough to get through it and be all the better for having done so.
So much has gone right in this community that whatever faults occur tend to stand out more, I think.
Not a scholarship, a Doctoral Thesis. A reader/lurker rare commenter may attempt one involving the netroots. I won’t say more as I’ve been asked to put out feelers to the Ladies of the Lake. I hope to be at CHS’ house this weekend to discuss it with her. Also, I don’t know this persons feelings about how public this is to be. I strongly believe many will take similar tracts, so I don’t feel I am violating any confidences here, but I can’t say more yet.
Valley Girl @
122
Election Judges are paid workers, who determine whether a citizen is eligible to vote, based on the information at the polling station. If the decision is no, the voter may vote with a provisional ballot.
Poll watchers are appointed by the parties, and can challenge voters eligibility inside the polling station. If the poll watcher is disruptive, or impedes the voting process by unwarranted challenges, the Election Judge can throw them out.
Campaign workers have to maintain a certain distance (100 ft?) from the polling place, but they can hand out literature and do last minute electioneering — so long as they maintain the proper distance.
I think that’s more or less correct . . .
bla @ 116
No, thanks, bla. This happens to be one of the more civil blogs and I trust the moderators because I’ve been around here almost from the beginning post and agree with all of their decisions I’ve seen. The truth isn’t hidden. It’s out there in the public record, and the last thing I want to see is people coming here who think they own the place, treating contributors like crap and acting as though the owners of this site have an obligation to listen to them spew (not to mention subjecting the rest of us to the spew). I’ve seen many dissenting opinions voiced here, but voiced with respect and a willingness to engage in discussion. I have no use and no time for people who have no respect for where they are and for the fact that they’re talking to other human beings who deserve to be treated as such.
bla @
128
I have to say, I didn’t see your comment. But, given how things can be misinterpreted in the toobz since we don’t have vocal nuance and all, would you be willing to let this one go and hang around for a while? I haven’t been commenting here all that long, but it’s already my favorite place.
Treat it like surfing, hang back a bit and get a feel for the personality of the waves. Most of the people here are really very nice.
Patrick – Yea, the rex family in the house! Hmm what about planting some tuberootz? Now to read the comments.)
Peterr @ 111
I did insult Gerstein ( even though I didn’t call him pickle dick), but noone here. I only complained about the f***ing censorship after several of my comments had been blocked without explanation, and THIS comment had been deleted, too, so only the mod did see it. In response, I was called ‘fuckwit’, ‘fucktard’ and roach so far. Sorry, but for me it looks as though I’m the one who tries to have a serious discussion, while the other side only responds with insults.
astralplame @ 127
gahhh!!
ck- thanks- well, whatever term I was told, I was def. a “campaign worker”- (maybe they said “poll worker” and that is where my confusion came from). Distance was 75 ft. in CT, and I seem to recall same in a report from OH-2 Schmidt Hackett (”Schmidt campaigners violated this” was one news story).Thx again.
al-Scooter — thanks!
I know several myself who — even in the last few weeks — said “But Kerry would have been a disaster” (paraphrased). Some (my b-i-l & s-i-l) are too young and aren’t vets. Rational argument doesn’t work (I swear I don’t even raise my voice). I suppose one of the reasons it bothers me is that whatever Kerry got tarred with in 2004 stuck (and still sticks). I expect the R’s marketing in 2006/8 will try to do the same thing again. I’m wondering if there is some logical — or even emotional — argument that will work.
Valley Girl –
Technically, you were a campaign volunteer working at the polling place.
OT: There’s a great clip at Crooks and Liars about electronic voting. It’s an interview with Prof. Aviel Rubin, who is a computer scientist who’s written a book on the subject.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..lou-dobbs/
He mentions the important reasons why this can be a problem. There’s a reason software engineering is done the way it’s done, and there’s a reason why it should be an open process.
ck- and BTW, I really enjoyed it, and I will do it again!!
this spring I was involved in a rough primary — in addition to being nice and cheerful, I also paid off the opposition paid-volunteers to slack off and I also made opposition signage disappear… but I smiled! genuine hardball politics …
LindaR @
136
Linda, you’re a voice of sanity here. Yeah, sure, I made my point now, and I really don’t want this to be the main topic for the rest of my life (even though I still think that clear guidelines and transparent notices by the comment engine would be good for FDL). Thanks for staying cool when the rant was getting hot!
punaise @ 131
or I could just keep stringing little bits together over and over again – a-textual reproduction?
Shell –
I sowwy
(flowah hangs head)
OFG –
I verrry intrigued
(flowah perks up)
lotus –
Are you a thousand petal variety?
I’ve kinda sorta wanted to discuss that stuff, in relation to spirituality (good!) and stress (bad!) — and how our immune systems respond to both.
-ck- @ 150
Duh, uh-ruh . . . huh?
(with her vedge for brain, the flowah struggles sometimes)
Thanks for a terrific post, Patrick!
Anybody catch the great job done by Hackett on Tweetie tonight?
Hackett utterly destroyed a sputtering R-dweeb running for a House seat from somewhere in a land called TX(?)
Hackett did it all, never losing his smile & swagger. You can tell Tweetie likes him a lot. They played off one-another like old pals. It’s a wonder the repugger didn’t cry on camera. I wonder if he’s still curled up in a fetal position in the studio green room. Hey Mehlman! Housekeeping in MSNBC.
REFRESHING after jr.s weirdly disturbing presser yestidee to watch the difference tw’ swagger & stagger, language & lingoish, smile & smirk. Hackett’s a natural. Jr’s unable even to read simple sentences any more, & totally unable to concoct one on his own. I’d swear they must be trying to have him use one a those refrigerator-magnet word-match games. He’s makin’ everyone suffer on both sides of the aisle.
Tweetie offered up a powderpuff question inviting Hackett to smack down Sherrod Brown. Without batting an eye, Hackett swept aside the silly question and substituted a SOLID, RINGING ENDORSEMENT of Sherrod(!) – still with a twinkle in his eye, genuine smile, and a relaxed chuckle.
Tweetie also had Lamont’s repub. opponent on, & quickly went into schmoozing & giggling, towel-snapping mode. He likes that guy also. It’s gotta be hard to get viewers to identify with a repubnikn card-sharp and especially difficult to make voters sympathize with the guy, but Tweetie succeeded. I swan ta’ goodness! Whowoodathunkit!?!
T’was especially sweet because they both were openly picking on Lierman like crazy behind his back, as well as repub. party honchos who’re not-so-secretly backing Joenope instead of their own candidate. How’s rover gonna fight that stuff?! I’m thinking outright ridicule like that, on major telly network, might go a long way twd derailing the Lieberchoo-choo. Whatever “image” he still has is gonna tarnish somethin’ awful in no time flat, if this outrageous conduct is allowed to continue on the telly.
Lovely. Just lovely. Tee hee!
C&L already has a clip up from Hackett’s appearance. Enjoy!
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..ardball-2/
*ilson46201 @ 148
*ilson- sorry not to have responded sooner, but I was talking types on the next thread. So, that is really really interesting!!!! Ya know, I wish you would write an FDL post that would give all of us “newbies” a few hints, a few good stories, whatever, based on your long campaigning experiences. I would love to read your perspective in more detail. xxoo
VG has a great idear there, *ilson . . .
Hi bla/Gray. Here’s why I called you an “oblivious fuckwit” (on a dead thread, BTW). First you whine about how you can’t get a comment through moderation, and the mean mods won’t hold your hand and help you figure it out. When Christy, hopelessly nice person that she is, tells you that using “mentally handicapped” or less savory equivalents as pejoratives is hurtful to readers who have special needs children, you reply you’re sorry, you wouldn’t have said it IF YOU HAD REALIZED THERE WERE SUCH PEOPLE ON FDL. That’s like saying you wouldn’t have told an racist joke if you had realized a black person was within earshot. YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE TO BE TOLD, YOU SHOULD JUST NOT DO IT. That, sir, is the very definition of “oblivious fuckwit.”
-ck- & Valleygirl in re:
campaign worker/poll watcher etc.
Sounds as if you have the categories sorted out pretty well.
At least in OH, they don’t even want you parking your car within 100′ of the polling place, if it has any campaign advertising on it at all.
Speaking for the rather typical small township precinct we vote in, I also agree that, perhaps in semi-rural areas, and probably in all New England cept within bustling city areas, trying to hand out campaign literature near polling places on election day, even in a legal location, might very well be a HUGE turnoff to voters.
The same can also be true of attempts to conduct exit-polls. Many people get really cranky, especially if the campaign worker isn’t recognized as “local” (easy to tell – don’t even try playing dress-up or -down games)
At least in OH, I think it would be very wise for campaign workers to be very much attuned to voters’ body language, and to back off if you don’t feel welcome.
I guess *ilson is a special case. Must have a world-class charming-smile routine going there.
But then, we all suspected as much, didn’t we? *g
too sleepy to proofread right now without increasing the chances of making an utter fool of me-self. ue get this as it is. hope some makes sense and is at least a little helpful.
I sooooo admire you folks who physically get out there take the hands-on jobs for the wonderful progressive candidates FDL’s locating. I did that so many years. I just can’t any more, for multiple reasons, but I do admire you folks more than you’ll ever know.
))))))THANKYOU((((((
Kids, kids! You’re way over thinking this!
I worked for one of the most successful incumbents in Washington State, who also too an enormous amount of political shit from her opposition (the Insurance Fascists) and she kicked way more ass than anyone could get for the money we spent. Her name? Deborah Senn, the Insurance Commissioner for the State of Washington.
Always disdained by the media and the Establishment, she was enormously popular. And she got re-elected in WA in 1996 with MORE votes than stupid Bill Clinton!
Why? Simple. SHE LISTENED TO PEOPLE AND DID WHAT THEY WANTED. She did not pander to a lowest common denominator, no , she LISTENED. She didn’t take polls. She didn’t did focus groups. EVERY FREAKING DAY OF HER JOB she listened to citizens who were not getting served by the Isnrance Nazis and she fought on their behalf.
Mind blowing concept to the netrooters, the dc-mafias, and the the people who micromanage and microanalyze. If Stupid Joe had just been more attentitive to the PEOPLE WHO VOTE IN DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES Ned lamont would not have been necessary.
Listening. It’s the new black. Deal with it.
Patrick! I can tell a Mac user every time!
And, BTW, BRAVO! I just hope the Repug incumbants don’t read this!
Adie- thanks for the info. Confirms my instinct as to trying approach the “heads down” voters on the way in (not). I just didn’t see any gain in that. But, the stories after were interesting, and well worth listening too!
Hurrah for Net LaMonde and the TubeRoots!