
(White House photo by David Bohrer, under the header "President Bush, Secretary Rumsfeld Discuss Progress in Iraq," from August 2003.)
That was then:
Q Mr. President, what’s your response to the Democrats, including Al Gore yesterday, and some of the Democratic presidential candidates, who say that the American people were misled in advance of the war about the reasons for going to war — that you said, disarming Iraq was the main purpose, but since then, no weapons of mass destruction have been found?…
THE PRESIDENT: No, it’s just pure politics. We’ve got a lot of people running for President and it’s pure politics. The American people know that we laid out the facts, we based the decision on sound intelligence and they also know we’ve only been there for a hundred days. And we’re making progress. A free Iraq is necessary for a — is an integral part of the war on terror. And as far as all this political noise, it’s going to get worse as time goes on, and I fully understand that. And that’s just the nature of democracy. Sometimes pure politics enters into the rhetoric. (emphasis mine)
This is now:
BUSH: The strategy is to help the Iraqi people achieve their objectives and their dreams, which is a democratic society. That’s the strategy. The tactics — now, either you say, yes, it’s important that we stay there and get it done; or we leave. We’re not leaving so long as I’m the president. That would be a huge mistake….[BUSH:] I agree with General Abizaid. We leave before the mission is done, the terrorists will follow us here.
And so we have changed tactics. Our commanders have got the flexibility necessary to change tactics on the ground, starting with Plan Baghdad, and that’s when we moved troops from Mosul into Baghdad and replaced with the Stryker Brigade. So in essence we increased troops during this time of instability….
[BUSH:] Now look, part of the reason we went into Iraq was — the main reason we went into Iraq, at the time, was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn’t, but he had the capacity to make weapons of mass destruction….
[BUSH:] You know, I’ve heard this theory about, you know, everything was just fine until we arrived and — you know, the stir-up-the-hornet’s- nest theory. It just doesn’t hold water, as far as I’m concerned.
The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East. They were …
QUESTION: What did Iraqi have to do with that?
BUSH: What did Iraq have to do with what?
QUESTION: The attacks upon the World Trade Center.
BUSH: Nothing. Except for it’s part of — and nobody’s ever suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack. Iraq was a — Iraq — the lesson of September the 11th is: Take threats before they fully materialize, Ken.
Nobody’s ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq. I have suggested, however, that resentment and the lack of hope create the breeding grounds for terrorists who are willing to use suiciders to kill, to achieve an objective. I have made that case.
And one way to defeat that — you know, defeat resentment — is with hope. And the best way to do hope is through a form of government…. (emphasis mine)
What we have here, ladies and gentlemen, is a President who has had to face no accountability from the Republican-controlled Congress for his piss poor decisions — because the Rubber Stamp Republican Congress is more interested in adding more pork to the budget and funnelling more no-bid contracts to cronies and then looking the other way at Administration mistakes.
Shorter Bush: "We’re not leaving Iraq while I’m President, because that would mean that I would have to admit it was my mistake."
What George Bush has yet to admit out loud — or perhaps even to himself at all – is that you cannot impose a form of government on a nation from the outside. It has to come from inside the nation itself. That this is a truism that has been voiced repeatedly in political theory for…well, forever, is apparently lost on W. (Watch the video at C&L, and see if he doesn’t look befuddled and lost.)
Alexis de Tocqueville’s influential tome, "Democracy in America," for example, was a means of exporting the ideas inherent in our nation’s early, exhuberant democracy to France and other older European monarchies, allowing these concepts to percolate and take root among the masses, which then took various nations (including France) through convoluted periods of reform — none of which were imposed from the outside by another government.
What the neocons fail to comprehend, and this is basic political theory to be honest, is that it is the ideas that must be fully absorbed by the populace, and not just absorbed but truly ingrained to a degree that they are willing to fight to obtain that idea for themselves, at many levels of the society at one time. You cannot force someone to believe in an idea in their heart via the barrel of a gun. Many of the Iraqis (and Afghans for that matter) want some form of representative government — but the form of that government is theirs to decide — not ours. And we may not like the result. (President Perpetually on Vacation also fails to acknowledge this, as though the American public will not notice that the Iraqi governmental trend is more fundamentalist Islamic than secular, much to the detriment of women all over that nation.)
You see the difference between a self-determined governmental structure and what we are trying to impose in a top down, militarily-enforced structure in Iraq, right? Well, that puts you way ahead of Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld.
And what the Republican-controlled Congress has yet to admit to themselves is that they are just as responsible for these failures as the President of the United States. Just as Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condi Rice, and all the other sycophantic enabling minions are culpable and complicit in these failures as well.
Think back to where we were immediately after 9/11. The leading French newspaper proclaimed that "We Are All Americans." Many nations which had never before cooperated with our intelligence agencies stood up and offered to help us track down Bin Laden and the other masterminds behind the fall of the Twin Towers and the hijacking of our aircraft. Nations that had held us in the highest contempt for decades saw their populace holding state-sanctioned candlelight vigils and other commemorative ceremonies in honor of those killed in the terrorist attacks.
I’m not saying it was all flowers and candy and a huge love-fest (because, frankly, only an imbecile would think you got that from a formerly hostile group of…oh…wait), but the momentum was in our favor at that point and we had a much more open door to information that we critically needed to ensure our safety — not just abroad, but here in this nation day in and day out for the long-term – because there was a sense of shared responsibility among a majority of nations for the prevention of such a terror event from ever happening again on anyone’s watch.
When we entered Afghanistan to clear out the viper’s nest of al Qaeda and their surrogate government via the Taliban, we had the world’s support in doing so.
And what did we do? We squandered all of that good will, threw caution to the wind, and doubled down on a bet that no one but a sucker would take — and invaded Iraq. Without laying the groundwork diplomatically, and dismissively shoving aside valid concerns and real questions concerning the veracity of the Chalabi-dumped intel on which we were relying for justification of our actions. Concerns that turned out to be accurate, in the end, and our pig-headed insistence on going to war on spotty information has done real damage to our credibility, and to our ability to be perceived as any sort of honest broker. We are now the nation who cried wolf.
The Bush Administration invaded Iraq with no real plan for the aftermath of the quick invasion. With no means to guard any of the important buildings to prevent looting. Leaving arms depots open for insurgent factions to steal from at will, and then turn around and use the same ammo on our troops — for the last three years. And with no real plan for dealing with a protracted insurgency while at the same time attempting to rebuild the decayed infrastructure — no plan whatsoever.
It is long past time that there was some accountability and some answers for every one of the piss poor decisions that led us down this long, wrong road.
This past weekend, I grabbed a little time to re-read the Jane Mayer article on David Addington in the 7/3/06 issue of The New Yorker. (It’s still not online that I could find, but I want to show a specific point here, so I’m going to quote a short passage.)
…The Iran-Contra scandal substantially weakened Reagan’s popularity and, eventually, seven people were convicted of seventeen felonies. Cheney, who was then a Republican congressman from Wyoming, worried that the scandal would further undercut Presidential authority. In late 1986, he became the ranking Republican on a House select committee that was investigating the scandal, and he commissioned a report on Reagan’s support of the Contras. Addington, who had become an expert in intelligence law, contributed legal research….The report also defended the legality of ignoring congressional intelligence oversight, arguing that "the President has the Constitutional and statutory authority to withhold notifying Congress of covert actions under rare conditions." And it condemned "legislative hostage-taking," noting that "Congress must realize…that the power of the purse does not make it supreme" in matters of war….
Prior to working as Cheney’s counsel in the research of this report, Addington had been counsel to the CIA chief who cooked up the scheme to fund the Contras behind Congress’ back in the first place. Is there any wonder why we are where we are at this moment in the Administration’s history? Is it any wonder that Doug Feith got to set up his merry band of intel cronies to cook the books for an invasion of Iraq at Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld’s behest — and without any real oversight by Congress whatsoever?
The bottom line is this: whether it was bad legal advice, bad advisors or bad ideas, the ultimate responsibility for all of the failure rests on George Bush’s desk. He hired this entire Administration full of zealots and power-driven cronies, and he hasn’t fired a one of them no matter how bad the consequences to our nation’s reputation, to our treasury, to any degree have been.
And the current Republican-controlled Rubber Stamp Congress isn’t rushing to scrutinize any of this to ensure that the President does not take one moronic step forward without someone making certain it isn’t going to make things even worse. Does that make you feel any safer?
Think about it for a moment. There were substantial promises about reforms in the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA after the mess that was Katrina — and there were a LOT of promises made to the residents of the Gulf Coast, New Orleans and Texas in the aftermath of last year’s record-breaking hurricane season. Are you willing to bet your life on how well all these reforms have been implemented? Because the Congressional oversight on that has been thin, at best.
And then contemplate what that means in the event of another catastrophic terror attack on this nation. Or an epidemic. Or any other major natural disaster that could conceivably require actual coordination. Hell, it’s five years later after 9/11 and our nation’s first responders still don’t have proper communications equipment. And that was the first thing promised in the wake of the deaths of all those brave firefighters and police offices and port authority officers in New York. Unconscionable and an absolute failure of leadership.
Then think about how few containers are being inspected — even today — at our nation’s ports. Every single day. As if that weren’t bad enough, how’s that lack of any real, working computer inter-link between all the various intelligence agencies and the INS going? Oh yeah, I could really use some accountability on that front.
The list just keeps going and going. And for every wingnut who whines that the Democrats have blocked things, I call bullshit — the Republicans control both houses of Congress and the White House. And they have not completed the practical, hands on, necessary reforms that ought to have been done. Period.
It is high time for someone to be held responsible for the failures of the Bush Administration and the GOP. In November, the American public will have an opportunity to do just that — but for them to be motivated to do so, the Democratic party has to step up to the plate and discuss exactly how the Bush Administration will be held accountable.
Digby has a great start from Henry Waxman. The fine folks at MyDD lay the rationale for accountability being important to Democratic candidates right out there in their Campaign Memo — and it ought to be a must read for every Congressional office this week.
Say it with me: accountability. And let’s just keep on saying it until we throw the bums out in November.
PS — Could someone at the DSCC and the DCCC please start reading Digby more often? And to Digby, I say, damn straight!
Related posts:
- DPC to Continue Drive for Oversight, Accountability for Iraq and Afghanistan Contractors
- Accountability Now Targets Jim Cooper for Primary Challenge
- White House Denies Existence of Indefinite Detention Order; ACLU Demands Accountability
- “Preventive Detention” Plan Shows Urgent Need for Leadership and Accountability at OLC
- Two Generals Who Enabled Torture Skirt Accountability





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His position is clear: http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gm…..on_is.html
There is a constant barrage on the internets and in the “liberal drive-by” media of suggestions about how the troops are defending the right for the liberal commie fagofacists(tm) to voice thier opposition to the Cheney menstruation. Furthermore, somehow getting our kids killed in Iraq on a daily basis not only is protecting our freedoms, but the Iraq quagmire is the central front in the war on terror. Iraq wasn’t a threat to our freedoms, wasn’t invloved in 9-11, and Dubya and company have a whole lot of people convinced however, that they were.
The wingnuts need to repeat this over and over…..American soldiers in Iraq are dying, but NOT to defend our freedoms. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. Iraq never has been a threat to “our way of life”. Quit listening to Fox “news” and Lush Bimbo. Just stop it, you are helping destroy our country.
Yes his position is VERY clear….
The guy needs to be put out to pasture, or somewhere. This is our beloved leader that is going to keep us safe from the boogymen with hair gel and toothpaste. They enemy made thier position clear when we were able to stop them? WTF?
Crawford, Texas is missing thier idiot, and it’s a safe bet that even they don’t want him back.
Hope the Peanut is feeling better this morning and that the mama got some rest.
In the spirit of Bush’s reported love of fart jokes, Mr. Sunshine, after listening to news about the prez’s presser yesterday. “freedom agenda,” if the country isn’t with me on this “we’ve lost our soul as a nation,” etc.
Definition: Bush is a dildo whose batteries are not functioning.
The President’s comments yesterday about not leaving Iraq on his watch certainly reinforces why they took off after Ned Lamont with his idea of a timetable for leaving.
Dairymaid at 4 — she’s feeling a bit better this morning. The fever is at least lower and more manageable, and I think we’ve turned the corner on this viral whatever-it-is. But she’s definitely still tired and having the cranky sick thing that kids do — but at least we have a squirrel on the bird feeder at the moment for a diversion. ;-)
Hang in there, Christy. Arghhhh…the cranky sick kid thing! I once went to our pediatrician (a friend and collegue) and said, “I know it’s viral. But you must do something. FOR ME, if not for her…; > )
This past weekend, I grabbed a little time to re-read the Jane Mayer article on David Addington in the 7/3/06 issue of The New Yorker.
Here is the link:
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/…..03fa_fact1
The republican united front in support of Bush is already starting to crack. For example, there was the Joe Scarborough show that asked the very relevant question “Is Bush an Idiot?” George Will and other traditional conservatives are openly dismissive of the neocons who had been Bush’s biggest supporters.
If the Dems do well in November and win back the House, the Senate or both, the republicans, except for John McCain, will avoid Bush like he had a contagious disease. I don’t expect they would put up much of a fight when the Dems have hearings to hold Bush and his crew accountable.
Oh yay, Fred at 9 — I tried to find a link last night and couldn’t dig one up. Much appreciated — I’ll update above. :)
angie @ 165
and this gem:
So glad the Baby Girl’s getting better.
Certainly this picture is Darkblack’s handiwork. The hands and the beltbuckle.
Christy, glad to hear the Peanut is doing better.
Great post this morning, I’m still furious with this administration (for many reasons) for utterly squandering, wasting, pissing down the tubes, the goodwill that we got worldwide after 9/11.
My brother and I keep imagining how Afghanistan *should* have been handled after the Taliban fell (before rising again, because this administration has the attention span of ferret on a sugar high) and really, he and I could have done a better job. He’s had a severe stroke, I’m severely agoraphobic and we could have done a better job. This is a definition of infuriating.
I thought this picture pretty much encapsulated the approach of the Bush Administration — all PR, all vacation, all unreality, alla time.
And sorry the post is so long this morning — I got on a roll yesterday, and it turned into one, long cranky post. That’s what I get for writing when I’m this low on sleep, I suppose. *g*
This post takes the administration’s arguments seriously, and that’s a mistake. By now we know that the administration (as a malignant organism, not as its most prominent and ignorant head) knowingly lied and deceived. Even if they were accidentally making sense, the dishonest basis of their arguments renders them worthless.
They stole the election, and they continue to steal them.
They refused to prevent 9/11.
They attacked Afghanistan as a prelude to Iraq, which was to be a prelude to Iran.
And they lied about it before, during, and after every phase of this endless and growing disaster.
There’s more to remember as we study their faces and formulated rebuttals:
This is not a game or politics, where they have also engineered disasters. This is war. If the war is needless, every death is needless. And responsibility for every needless death rests with this administration.
They are profiting from it.
We are paying for it, as will our children and grandchildren and as will those of the people we have harmed.
This is a bigger and more complex mistake than George W. Bush can ever comprehend, but that shouldn’t protect him from being “brought to justice.”
Bush is not going to bring home the troops over the next two years. John McCain wants to send more troops. The political battle lines are clearly drawn for the 2008 election. All of this points to the importance of a Lamont victory in November.
Christy, great post! I am so glad it was so long, because it just made it that much more of good. You are really on to something with the De Tocqueville concept. I am running from pillar to post and I can’t stay to expand, I hope you will.
I mostly just wanted to say, “Thanks.”
Meanwhile, I hope the peanut is swell this mornin’
Who says we had no plan for the time after we had finished the invasion of Iraq? We had a perfect plan! It included making oodles of money rebuilding Iraq, compliments of American taxpayers. It included gaining control over Iraq’s oil wealth as a present to our poor oil industry. It included highly profitable resupply of weapons to our troops – the longer the conflict lasted, the bigger the profits. And so far the plan goes hanky-dory!
The only minor flaw in the plan is that the “we” only meant the neocon war profiteers.
For everyone who missed seeing this last evening in Jane’s How to Trash a Perfectly Good Campaign in 60 Seconds thread, this Plame-related story appeared in the comments, thanks to Excessive Bastard and pow wow:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..k_woodward
It is hard to believe that these people.. the whole lots of them are so completely incompetent and clueless. It is really hard to get that many people who have actually graduated from college and passed a driving test to act with such utter stupidity in the face of facts.
One must conclude that there is an agenda which is why they are doing what they do.
They are not interested in nation building or winning a war.. they are interested in a continual state of war which enriches and entrenches the military industrialists. Republicans have always been about big business and making money and so this administration caters to the needs of business in all their policy decisions.. but they will not say it.
The want to turn government into a conduit for big business to receive all the tax dollars in absurd contracts.. no bid… or spending boondoggles like the drug program…
They don’t care about freedom.. or democracy… They worship at the alter of unfettered free market internaltonal capitalism.
If you view their behavior with this in mind… everything they do makes perfect sense. Greed, wealth creation, supporting the property class… that is what they are about.
They cynically exploit the xtian right to gain votes because they simply could not get enough votes from the upper crusties… They exploit fear and hollow issues like patriotism and xenophobia. They are masters at mis and disinformation and foggy the issues and obscuring the truth.
The media won’t hold them accountable because the media is owned and operated by those who benefits from these policies. Look at Tom Friedman… he is married to one of the 100 richest families in America…
break
after the kerfuffle of 1789, France was not unacquainted with the experiences of democracy…
I really like this post. The accountability theme is so important. But I think accountability does not have to be entirely backward-looking. There should be accountability for what they are apparently planning to do as well.
Bush is getting ready to attack Iran. The drums are beating for war. The MSM is starting to bleat about the dangers posed by Iran. Bush is not being held accountable for the things he and his administration are saying, all of which sounds so much like what they said before attacking Iraq. These idiots are going to blow up the Middle East. My guess is that it will occur before the election.
At least we now know where the “cut and run” slogan comes from…
Christy,
And add to that-
Ignorance of the law is now excuse.
Maude
*ilson46201 @ 23
OK, one more comment from me –
FYI — at one point Chief Justice Rehnquist was working on a research project in which he was trying to argue that evidence of the framer’s intent here in the US could be discerned from the French “Rights of Man” because the framers were, for all practical purposes, the same group of colonists….
I guess he found the document a little too radical for his tastes, but I still like the idea….
Maude @ 26
What do I teach the students????!!!!
If Bush were impeached do you think Cheney would make an acceptable replacement? HELL NO! So Cheneney gets the boot along with monkeyboy and we end up with….Hastert. A criminal doddering old POS interested only in linng his pockets with the short time he has remaining. Look down the line of succession it isn’t a pretty picture. We are screwed until ‘08.
Maude at 26 — Amen to that. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.
So, Bush is promising no withdrawal before 2009. Isn’t that, you know, a time-table?
Christy Hardin Smith @
16
Do you apologize when you make a great dinner or sing a nursery rhyme to Baby Girl or . . . write a rich, not only readable, but re-readable FDL morning essay? NO. You must have known we’d really appreciate this.
I highly recommend the gut-wrenching piece on Guantanamo in the current Rolling Stone. Only part of it’s online:
http://tinyurl.com/jya9c
Money graf (from print version):
I don’t think these people are merely incompetent. I think they, and especially Bush, are psychopathic criminals, as stone evil as any sadistic mass murderers from Ted Bundy to Stalin.
An important point here is that, by his delusional standards, Bush is admitting that the Iraq War won’t be won while he’s Commander in Chief.
That alone should tell the American people that it’s time to get a new Commander in Chief.
We lost the wars
We lost the wars
We lost the wars
So many died and out of the rubble rises a seething hatred and revulsion.
But all those creatures in the picture see is oil under the rubble and cash lining their pockets. They have body armor, vehicle armor, security and a clean place to sleep and good food to eat. One of the few references I heard from W yesterday about the troops was in reference to cutting and running.
(emphasis mine)
despicable.
why does the democratically elected government they crow about have to “defend itself?”
am I missing something?
we defeated Nazi Germany in World War Two in less time than Bush has spent flailing around in Iraq …
ckerst @ 29:
hoping for a change of ownership in the house, we might end up with President Pelosi.
*ilson, the Nazis actually did win WWII. It just took a little longer, and a change of venue…
I’m moving this up from the prior thread, to be certain that it gets viewed. If it doesn’t apply to you, please feel free to read, agree and move forward. Thanks — CHS
This blog is provided free. Our moderators do an enormously difficult job behind-the-scenes sifting through a substantial amount of spam and dreck to keep things running smoothly. They also do their jobs free of charge to you. We don’t demand that anyone chip in on our expenses (which are substantial) unless they feel that they get value here, nor do we require a subscription service.
But I will not tolerate someone getting shitty with the moderators because their instant whim wasn’t taken care of in the moment that they wanted something. We are not a bunch of five year olds fighting for a toy. And I’ll thank you to keep that in mind — the moderators work their asses off for us because they value the site and the work we are trying to do. Which makes them all the more valuable to Jane and I. So can it. Am I clear?
Bush won’t leave Iraq while he is in office in order to protect his ‘legacy’ — ya, I am laughing at that too. He still believes that if he just leaves Iraq for someone else to clean up (never happen anyway), he will not be accused of being the one who ‘lost’ Iraq, his successor will. That is why I still think that powers in control just might let a dem be elected in ‘08 in order to blame all the dems for the Iraq loss, and the pain America will feel as we try to correct our financial pit.
bush has every intention of leaving office with his blinders on humming loudly to offset the cursing at him.
I dont want to brag or anything but my phrase “Bush flailing around in Iraq” is horribly good. It only came to me as I was composing my previous comment. “Flailing around” is so apropos !
And that, Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, is the prosecution’s summary argument.
Susan in Iowa @ 24
I couldn’t agree more. We have definately got to keep our eyes on this.
Christy Hardin Smith @
30
No, for Bush it’s a way of life.
I wish he were flailing around, in Iraq. Maybe at Riverbend’s house. Or in Fallujah.
Sharkbabe @ 38
Well, Sharkbabe, a slight modification of what you so rightfully say:
The Nazi’s lost, but fascism prevailed.
ccobb @ 34
Another example of Bush’s whole life. All his failures are cleaned up by someone else. Only this time, it is us and our children and grandchildren paying the price.
Look, until Walmart and Starbucks dot the landscape and Time-Warner and Comcast have the region wired for cable we’re going to continue to kill Afghans and Iraqis. And they better keep their filty Muslim hands off OUR OIL! Gimme a smoke and pass the ammo…………..
look, it’s nice that you’re talking about this, but these points, about the imposition of democracy, are still in doubt. it depends entirely on the conditions in which it’s attempted. japan and germany, nuff said. it was never known if it would or would not work in iraq, though the arguments were obviously to be looked upong skeptically, since playing with lives for the sake of a hypothesis was amoral in any event.
this all said, the democracy thing may have been one of the arguments they batted around in-house, and it was certainly one of the more prominent public rationales. but we’re kidding ourselves if the prime mover wasn’t a geopolitical resource grab. considering this, it strikes me as more or less pointless to engage the war’s proponents on the level that you’re engaging them on. what purpose does it serve to wage a rhetorical war on a point that can’t be won? meanwhile, talking about the real reasons for the war would actually take the debate off their field of play and show the public what’s really at stake. and no one, not one legitimate commentator, neither in the new york times, nor on TV, nor even in the blogosphere has been willing or able to make the case consistently and plainly for all to see. we’ve been distracted for far too long, while the debate rages in a direction totally unassociated with the facts of the conflict.
it might be difficult to discuss something that the other side isn’t discussing, but that doesn’t mean it would be an ineffective strategy. again, take the ball off their field of lies and propaganda and get down to brass tacks.
hell, i’ll start. the war was waged since iraq has the third largest proven reserves of oil, and in the coming years the demand for oil will skyrocket beyond the world’s capacity to pay for it. for us to secure our economic future, it’s arguable that physical control over the oil would be necessary as oil itself loses fungibility once world demand outstrips supply. thus, the waking chinese giant, not to mention europe, russia and india, will have to negotiate through us to get their oil at all. we break apart OPEC and assume de facto control over the world’s oil supply.
clearly this can be fleshed out, and a few others, notably juan cole, have sought to do so. but the democracy crap is a total chimera. no one in the pentagon has any interest in producing a democracy anywhere. the argument that democracies don’t go to war with one another is coincidental: every democracy on the planet–save a few with whom we may end up at war–has been in our sphere of influence since their inception.
ok, now you try.
Great article Christy — as usual.
One comment – they are “Afghans”, not “Afghanis”. I believe that it’s kinda a big deal.
Thad
marc — somebody put it pithily :: “If all Iraq exported was oranges, does anybody think the US would have invaded?”
the caption for the photo should read: Murder, Inc.
Just ask Hamas – the winners of the last election in the Palestinian Territories. Funny how we loved the democracy they were getting into there, right up until Hamas won an election.
Has anyone been reading “American Theocracy” by Kevin Phillips. If not, then I highly recomend it. It lays out the perfect storm of oil (and its men) and fundamentialist religion in devastating detail.
Before 9-11, Cheney et al were formulating plans to invade both Iraq and Afghanistan (breakdown of the Unocal pipleline negotiations with the Taliban). Makes one think. About how much they knew about Osama, when they knew it, and what more they could’ve done, if they had wanted to.
There is a belief that Saudi oil production is peaking now, and that Iraq has way way more “virgin” oil fields than the Saudis.
Remember the invasion of Baghdad? When the Museum was looted and pillaged? The oil ministry which contained valuable maps of Iraqi oil fields (which was what was really valuable there) was immediately protected …
“A free Iraq is necessary for a — is an integral part of the war on terror.”
Your slip is showing Mr. President.
marc @ 49 said …geopolitical resource grab…
I like your phraseology – sums it up nicely and with finality. If we say “it’s about the oil,” we end up having to defend that over-simplification further.
OT: was this article posted before? if so, sorry for the repeat.
Some Dems want Lieberman out of party
Accountability is an interesting issue
because there is so much of it to spread around.
While I like and admire the “Buck Stops Here” model of leadership, it shoul dbe apparent that we do not have a leader. Nore have we, as a people, demanded that mode of leadership.
The electorate has placed these people in office and repeatedly returned them.
Some are better than others, but, until we find a way to effectivly communicate to the electorate elections will be close enough to steal.
I do not think, (as I heard Lawrence O’Donnell opine on L,R&C last week) that the Dems need to attract Republican voters. I do think that a clear message of accountability is needed, and that there are problems with getting a portion of the minority party to accept their accountability for being ‘good losers’.
The problems is not a partisan Dem vs Rep issue.
In Illinois, George Ryan “accepted full responsibility” for the misdeeds in his Secretary of State office. But those were just words. The licenses for dollars practices of that office directly resulted in fatal accidents, the most dramatic of which resulted from a long haul truck driver whose english was so poor that he could not understand multiple other drivers telling him his load was not secured. A large metal object fell off his truck and killed a family in a van following the truck. (I forget the exact details , but I think the parents survived, losing all their children).
Accountability is more than lip service.
We, as a nation must demand it.
Patrick Fitzgerald cannot be our sole enforcer.
Peterr @ 53
One could ask Hizbollah, too. 2 Canadian PM’s came out strongly just yesterday or the day before asking that they be removed from the Canadian terrorist list…
o 6:39
and the war in terror is an integral part of the quest for more oil.
oh lordy– 2 Canadian MPs not PMs
The new republican motto..IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NOW EXCUSED. McCain violates the law he introduced and they treat accountability like a four letter word. Thanks Christy for the post.
Someone tell Mr. Decider that he may not have enough sense to be frustrated with the chaos he has created but the majority of us are beyond frustrated. If he had done the right thing in Afghanistan, that country could have so easily been a model for others. How can his minority not acknowledge what evil has been done in the name of all of us?
It’s equally frustrating that McCain may step into Bush’s bloody boots. The traditional MSM love Straight-Talker and totally ignore his twists and turns in all directions in what may well be his successful bid to capture Bush’s base base and the presidency. This after most of the media are guilty of enabling Bush and his thugs these many years to do as they damn well please.
Think about it. Not many are beating up McCain for his embrace of Bush and Bush policies but rather ST seems to have access to any television spot he chooses to appear on so he is free to waffle on the questions of the day. Scrutiny and half-truths are in the main reserved for the Democrats. If any semblance of our democracy remains after Bush, a media-anointed King McCain will finish it off. Scary. You bet.
Thad Beier @ 50
In the languages of the region, an “i” is added to denote that one is from a particular country.
eg: “Irani” in farsi which is spoken in Afhganistan.
Afghani
Pakistani
Hindi
and on and on and on.
There is nothing offensive about Afghani. (I used to speak a little farsi back in the day and was actually in Afghanistan in the mid-70s. They called themselves Afghanis).
I repeat… that all power is a trust; that we are accountable for its exercise; that from the people and for the people all springs, and all must exist.
Benjamin Disraeli
We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
Ronald Reagan
I think one has to say it’s not just simply a matter of capturing people and holding them accountable, but removing the sanctuaries, removing the support systems, ending states who sponsor terrorism. And that’s why it has to be a broad and sustained campaign. [This could be said of the whole K Street lobbying enterprise]
Paul Wolfowitz
Journalism is the only profession explicitly protected by the U.S. Constitution, because journalists are supposed to be the check and balance on government. We’re supposed to be holding those in power accountable. We’re not supposed to be their megaphone. That’s what the corporate media have become.
Amy Goodman
from Wikipedia:
marc @ 49
as has been said on many other blogs, this is a classic colonial war. I wish some reporter would ask Bush in one of his ranting pressers why he thinks the US can succeed where other European nations in the region have failed. But I guess bringing up history is just too much to ask.
An offshore commenter on another blog suggested the only glimmer of hope for peace in Iraq (and a withdrawal of U.S. troops) might be for the Arab League to get a U.N. mandate to send a contingent of troops from each of their countries. But it would be contingent on the U.S. giving up any and all permanent bases and all oil.
back to you.
Jimmy Carter has an interview with the German newsweekly Der Speigel (The Mirror), which appeared in their Aug 15 issue. It’s up on their website (in English translation), and Jimmy has some insights that seem particularly appropriate here:
(The editorial comment is by the editors of DS.)
He also makes a critical point about the role of fundamentalism in the Bush White House:
This from one of the preeminent presidential negotiators in our history, who now works as a Sunday School teacher at his Baptist church in Plains, GA (when he’s not building homes with Habitat and such).
Any chance of getting Jimmy back for four more years? Even as a secretary of state?
via atrios (who links dkos)-
Rasmussen Poll 8/21
-
Lieb (CTFL) 45,
Lamont (D) 43
Gambler (R) 6
and Rasmussen famously tilts rightwards so its really a tie!
Mornin’ Everyone,
hey indeedy, . . . cursory reads of industry and financial journals indicate FEMA might as well be handling extraction ops – Iraq To Date might as well be Arbusto – IOW, their priapic dreams of stakeholding will probably never be realized either
Christy, you are steamin’!
Great writing. Memorable phrasing.
Typo watch: “arms depos” should be “arms depots.”
clem @
17
THIS is what we should focus on. We are playing THEIR game when we waste our bandwidth discussing the smoke and mirrors Karl Rove invents for us. This purely evil administration is NOT incompetent. It is making BILLIONS of dollars for themselves and friends, this is no accident. If you simply “follow the money” you will see very clearly that everything the PNAC has done using their White House puppets has made themselves rich beyond imagination. They even TOLD us what they would do if they ever got in power..
PNAC Evil Plan
The ONLY way to save our country is to vote these bastards out. If /When the Dems take the House we should DEMAND they begin investigations into the White House and ALL it’s evil. the unPatriot Act, the illegal domestic wiretaps, cooked up intel to invade Iraq, and finally, there complicity and involvement in the 9/11 attacks.
ACCOUNTABLE not only for their apparent incompetence, but for the pure greed and evil that has caused our once-great nation to fall so far in 5 1/2 years.
As marc at 49 notes, this was never about democracy. Remember Paul Bremer writing the 100 laws that could not be revoked? Americans at home have rejected the flat tax and privatization of water and similar resources; we still debate the extent of discourse monopoly (aka intellectual property) and control of genetically modified crops. BUT, by golly, Viceroy Paul on the orders of Emperor George imposed the corporate wish list on Iraq and said their “democracy” could restrict women’s rights but not multinationals’ perquisites. We should keep noting that the Iraqis are fighting at least partially to protect their country against grand theft.
I agree with you on this Christy
In another sense though, Bu$hCo is having a lot of success on imposing a form of government on Americans, namely fascism. They may not be “from the outside” geographically, but I think and certainly cling to the hope that they are outside of the mainstream of the American people. I hate to think that most Americans are neo-con, greed and hate mongering fascists who share Bu$hCo’s imperial goal of making the world safe for their form of “demockcracy” by bombing into submission anyone who doesn’t agree that all the resources of the world belong to Amerika.
Watching Hezbollah jumping right into cleaning up Israel’s mess in Lebanon, I can’t help but wonder if they could be recruited to help deal with the aftermath of Katrina.
OT headline over at RawStory:
Uranium missing… In New Jersey… Developing…
Great Scott, Christy!
Has anybody considered handing this out as a speech for EVERY SINGLE DEMOCRAT running for office this year?
And by the way, the answer to those who say that the Dems have not proposed any strategy (other than cut ‘n’ run) is that the Dems are prepared to deliberate and come to a strategy based upon the facts while the Rubber Stamp Republican Congress just approves the President’s non-strategy of staying on this miserable course without a plan.
Prof at 72 — I made the mistake of watching some tape of the Bush presser yesterday evening after we’d finally gotten the peanut to bed. And this all came streaming out in one big blurt. I was a bit peevish — could you tell? *g*
i’m sure there will be a post on this as soon as i leave this comment, but:
apparently, armitage told woodward about plame, months before novakula heard it, and:
“Robert Novak, who, unlike Woodward, actually outed Plame in print, has said that whoever told Woodward of Plame’s identity is probably the same person who first told him.”
WTF? i never thought of old bullet-head as a serious kool-aid drinker (although always ready to do powell’s wet work). armitage wasn’t an ally of cheney’s, particularly. i think he’s planning on taking them down.
double-bank shot; happens all the time.
Darling, he’s not trying to “impose democracy.” He’s trying to create a client state out of whole cloth!
In the old days the CIA would spot the biggest fascist (usually in the military) and put them in charge. And thus (just a few off the top of my head) the Shah of Iran, Manuel Noriega, Augusto Pinochet and (drumroll please) Saddam Hussein.
But we’ve go greedy stupid fucks in charge who think they can run everything. And they have no intention of admitting to error.
So they lie and lie and lie. And the world suffers for their crimes.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 78
Peevish? Not a bit!
Truth telling, YES
Christy for Speechwriter to the Dems
HuffPo:
Titanyum @ 20
Don’t forget the “secret plan” – build huge military bases so we are positioned in the middle of all that oil.
Yes, indeed.
Those of you who can remember back when you were a teenager should reflect on the direction your lives would have taken had your parents asked nothing of you, had not expected you to be accountable for your decisions and actions, and had just let you flounder your way to some kind of destination.
In this case, Bush is the child, and his Congressional parents have allowed his typical teenage bravado, his resistance to discipline and insistence that he knows what he is doing to wear them down – too quickly – and they have failed in their duty to provide structure and accountability.
Unfortunately, this lack of accountability isn’t just affecting the course of George Bush’s life, but the lives of millions of people here and in countries around the world. I don’t know how you excuse that away, or turn a blind eye to it.
What is also disturbing is the worsening of George Bush’s incoherence on these issues. This isn’t just a case of him being inarticulate in kind of a down-home, folksy way, this is being nearly incoherent in a pretty scary, unstable kind of way. The questions that were put to him seem to have been asked the way a mental health professional would conduct a session with someone with significant problems dealing with reality.
Am I the only one who wonders how close Bush is to completely losing it?
Christy –
Just a quick drive-by for ‘ya.
I was reduced to watching the ‘boy/chimpERROR’ presser as it happened. Having avoided same for long time. Disgusted by it. He’s a living ex. of A.CHristie’s ‘Death on the Nile’ (w/alternate spelling for addiction(s).)
oh, can I also say, “You’re beautiful when you’re angry.”?
Great post. You go grrrl.
BK
(hoping to reacquire net ready CPU, RSN.) ‘RealSoonNow.
peace to firepups, and take a quick peek over to G.Greenwald when ya get a chance. Nice dissection of MSM commentary re: NSA decision and legal ‘weakness’ thereof.
peace
oh, and Iran/Contra was an override of Boland Amendment. My late, great Representative, Ed Boland, (D) Springfield, MA
Great post Redd! Powerful, succinct, a bullseye.
David E,
are you still here ?
Baby Jon-Benet and Her Newsboys
OMFG!
No Anne, it is blatant enough for the likes of Scarborough to admonish his handlers to keep him away from cameras
twolf1 @
76
Twolf1 — If I had my tin foil hat on (and I do — It’s fetching!) then I would be worried that something like this will be a prelude to a national emergency. But who is behind it all? Anyone remember this strange event?
No one arrested, no one charged.
Just got an email from Dan Gerstein.
Here it is:
***NATIONAL MEDIA APPEARANCE ADVISORY***
Senator Lieberman will appear on CNN’s Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer, today, Tuesday, August 22nd, at 5:30 pm.
Senator Lieberman will also be on MSNBC’s Imus in the Morning, tomorrow, Wednesday, August 23rd, at 7:30 am.
The inevitable outcome of democracy in Iraq, a 60% Shiite nation will be (1) Shiite dominance and (2) an alliance with Iran. The inevitable outcome of a civil war in Iraq, a 60% Shiite nation, will be (1) Shiite dominance and (2) an alliance with Iran.
In January 1991, the CIA and the State Department told GWB’s father that the inevitable outcome of toppling Saddam would be Iranian/Shiite dominance of the most populace and oil-rich portion of Iraq. That’s why he didn’t topple Saddam.
Now that we’ve toppled Saddam, we can either try to install another Baathist dictator, or simply let Iran accept its gift. Bush’s tactic of camping out in denial just gets a lot of people killed for nothing.
Anne at 85. I get the metaphor — but I think Bush’s childhood was exactly like that as well!
:~)
Oh, jeebus — could there be a more annoying confluence of programming than Lieberman on Imus?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 93
Joe must feel like he’s going into the tank after these new numbers if he is running to on-the-air wank sessions with Leslie and Donny.
In the David Gregory/Ken Mehlman interview, I was surprised that Ken made this revealing remark, “Imagine a failed state in the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world”. So much for their justification of “democracy”. If anyone in msm has zeroed in on that, I have missed it. What is the total # of reasons for invading Iraq anyway? A grad student in Ill did a paper on that a couple of years ago & there were about 23 different ones she had found.
OT:
The AP story on the Plame outing states “Fitzgerald has signaled there are no plans — beyond the Libby indictment — to prosecute any other officials for releasing Plame’s identity.”
Is this Repub “spin” embedded within a straight news story? When exactly did Fitz signal this? If he did so, I completely missed it.
Kind of OT- but failed ChimPolicy related:
Iran Issues Nuclear Response
Sonate at 96 — there’s been no signal directly from Fitzgerald other than the mythic letter to Gold Bars Luskin of which I am aware. And I watch this very closely. I think it sounds like a Gold Bars/Comstock plant of information — because I’ve heard of no filing, no indication, no anything from Fitz that says anything to that effect. And Luskin has yet to produce any copy of the letter in its entirety. (Still waiting…tap…tap…tap.)
A group of Canadian oppositon MPs are touring Israel’s mess in Lebanon and generating a lot of debate back here at home. One or two of Harper’s cons were going to go with the delegation, but Daddy Stephen wouldn’t let them participate.
Some of the members on the scene (in Lebanon) have called for the de-listing of Hezbollah as a “terra” organization only to be sharply rebuked by their party leaders back in Canada because,after all, Hezbollah launched missiles on civilians in Israel. Even though three quarters of Israelis killed by Hezbollah were soldiers, and they managed this without the hi-tech “smart” weapons at the Israeli’s disposal as usual it is “verboten” even consider if Israel might be the real terrorist here.
Only Smilin’ Jack Layton, NDP leader, was willing to make a statement that didn’t reinforce Harper’s position as Bush’s Poodle of the North. I don’t have his exact words but basically he said that everyone involved (i.e., Israel, government of Lebanon AND Hezbollah) should be involved in any discussion aiming to resolve the sitution and that it wasn’t relevant to talk about “lists.”
It reminds me of when I was little and how insane was the China policy of the day. Even as a ten year old I couldn’t understand how grown, supposedly smart, people could pretend that Formosa was China and those other few Billion folks somehow didn’t really exist or matter.
ironranger @ 95
W repeated the same thing essentially at his presser yesterday:
emphasis mine
This elementary truth was so unforgivably denied:
You cannot force someone to believe in an idea in their heart via the barrel of a gun.
If we don’t (justly) hold the perpetrators of the ensuing chaos accountable, how will the world will exact its due from us? We will, one way or another, face payment on our own account.
And here I just wanted to make sure the kidlette was on the mend -good news in post 7, thanks- But what’s waiting? A rendevous with my beloved de Tocqueville before a second west coast cuppa! You’re a dangerous woman, Christie. *wink* The pleasure of seeing America The Idea reflected in his eyes never dims.
Ah, well. George has other things on his fuzzy little mind. US News reports:
Regarding inspection of containers (and air cargo also), as well as other priorities, I caught Howard Dean on C-SPAN last night addressing the DNC meeting in Chicago and his line-items were stunning.
For 1-1/2 weeks in Iraq we could provide health insurance for the 9 million children who don’t have health insurance.
For 5 days in Iraq we could deploy radiation detectors in every one of our ports.
For 2 days in Iraq we could screen every bit of air cargo that comes into the United States of America. . . .
The Republican majority in the Senate refuses to spend the money that the Democrats have asked to make us safe at home by screening our ports and cargo.
For one month in Iraq, the Gulf Coast could have been rebuilt.
Dean’s speech in Chicago is on YouTube in two parts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kZ5t7OJAko
(comparison of weeks in Iraq with other priorities start at 07:40 minutes into the 09:52 clip)
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB82uDqKGd0
(opening second of second clip regarding Gulf Coast)
This is very true, and as Christy says, has been a truism of political theory since the year one. It has not, however, been a truism for proselytizing religions. It hasn’t been particularly uncommon, historically, to see either physical or cultural violence done by the less-tolerant in the interest of spreading their religious ideologies. There is often an overlap between religious and political/economic colonialism, of course, but my interpretation of the colonial experience in different parts of Africa is that more secular colonial authorities are less concerned with direct or violent imposition of either ideologies or organization than are those who have a stronger religious stake.
The relevance to Bush, of course, is this: he and many of his top dogs are Christian fundamentalists, and not unusually, that comes with a continuous overlap of religious belief with political ideology and practice. Christy is correct, but I doubt Bush or his henchman-handlers are either prepared for or interested in thinking in her terms. And so, they fail.
And yet another poll showing a Lamont/Lieberman dead heat!
That’s from The American Research Group.
Billmon hit the nail on the head with a post about this yesterday:
The whole piece is spot on. The next 2 years are going to be scary.
*ilson46201 @ 103
A point that can be made on either side of the divide. Within the margin of error, it’s a tie now, and that is a changing of the tide for the general election given that Lieberman was formerly well in the lead.
The gooper apologists–such as Santorum–have been trying to focus on Bush’s statement that he “never said Saddam Hussein ordered the attacks on “9-11″, a straw camel argument at best. But yesterday Bush said unequivocally when asked what was the connection between the two: “NOTHING”!
This needs to be hammered home, because the ONLY area the goopers have cupport is on terrorism (NOT Iraq by a long shot).
Ned has made the point forcefully and it needs t to be stated at every turn. The terrible blunder in Iraq had, as the President has declared forcefully–no relationship to the terrorist attacks against us on 9-11. Our continued involvement there is draining precious military power and resources from the broader war on terror that has been largely forfeited by this administration. Our soldiers accomplished their mission in Iraq three years ago. We need them–and the billions of dollars we are spending there every week–elsewhere. Re-deploying does not signal failure. It signals, erm, “Adapting to Win.”
The LA Times apparently sees things differently, giving credit to Bush for a credible performance.
http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..nes-nation
Bush Treads on Critics’ Turf
He confidently addresses favorite Democratic topics, such as Mideast strategy and Katrina.
Monday’s hourlong news conference, held in a temporary briefing room across Pennsylvania Avenue from the White House, was the latest effort by Bush to reassure voters who have grown wary of his leadership on the foreign and domestic fronts…
Although he has often been accused of avoiding critical questioners, Bush’s appearance suggested he was settling into a pattern of regular, wide-ranging interactions with reporters in which he can appear confident and presidential…
Digby:
…And we are naive at best to think that BushCo would ever let that happen. Ever. Think about it. They’ve already demonstrated that they don’t mind killing on a grand scale and they have no problem at all with losing a major city.
If BushCo wanted to use some lame excuse for declaring Martial Law, who’s to stop them? The Left may be passionate and they may act more for the public good, but they are virtually unarmed.
These people have no intention of giving up power because of something as quaint as an “election.”
I’ve never heard of a Dictator being elected out of office. They must be overthrown.
(GL)
THE HAGUE:
RESERVATIONS AVAILABLE.
Angie: thanks, I did miss that sentence…it’s just so difficult to listen to him all the way through..I have to really concentrate because my mind just keeps saying Dear God, make it go away. Yesterday’s & the week before bush talk was frightening…he is barely functional. If it was a dem prez performing incoherently in press conferences (& in policy), I don’t think most dems would remain loyal or silent like too many repub voters are still doing for bush. The party of lemmings.
immanentize — re your prior 367: Thanks for your intervention last night. I joined too late and never caught up with the thread, before late-nite, but was dismayed to see it turn. I support what you did. btw, I met and worked with lisadawn in Connecticut, and she’s one of my favorite people. She can take care of herself, but it’s nice to know you’re not alone. Thanks.
Wigwam @
91
Wigwam, I am fundamentally in complete agreement with your comment. The only relatively small alternative I would offer is that Shiite domination may not be such a lead pipe cinch. The Shiites have serious internal strife among them. Fearing Turkey and Iran, the Kurds may see it in their security interest to enter into some kind of agreement with the Sunni’s in Iraq. Since the Sunni’s don’t sit on any oil, they have obvious interest in such a deal. JMO.
Christy — another outstanding post today, and exactly what we needed. Well done. Are the Dems listening?
I was watching C-Span when the aircrafts hit the towers. The coverage showed so much confusion in the way people reacted on the scene. What I remember too, was a man calling in saying he was some kind of building engineer. His voice was frantic and desparate as he gave warning, saying the people have got to get out of there, the buildings are going to come down. He was immediately cut off by C-Span. This was several minutes before the towers crashed. Within that time however firefighters were going in.
Didn’t the people remember the fire drills in school? It seemed to me the tragic loss of life could have been reduced.
A few oil-culture quotes from “American Theocracy.”
Prof @ 72
Though you are correct in the strict sense, there is no “Academie de Anglais” to control the immigration of new words and new spellings into the “melting pot” language. That is why French has a vocabulary of 70,000 words while the Oxford Unabridged has over 500,000 entries without proper names.
From my perspective the extreme wings of English are certain UK dialects on the one side and the Hillbilly flavors to my south on the other. The truly triangulated centrist version is what we use here in Canada and I can write color or colour, and only my spellchecker needs to know.
But you know all that – I love the English Language for many reasons, one being that it not only doesn’t deny evolution, but practices it.
1. It’s not ineptitude that prevents the Bushies from inspecting containers, updating computer systems, etc. to detect terrorists. They’re desparately hoping for another attack, which they can use as a distraction to save their sorry asses.
2. Bush’s announcement that the Iraq war won’t end while he’s president should get the forehead slap and “well, duh,” it deserves. He doesn’t dare end the war, because then his only argument for war powers evaporates. Nobody but Dittoheads is buying the “war on terror = war” anymore. Not only does he risk having actually to try democratic government, but he, Count Dickula, Rummy, Condi, etc. are probably guilty of war crimes under U.S. Law. (Glenn Greenwald, as usual, is all over this issue.) So, the war must continue.
3. Impeaching Bush is a non-starter. Unfiltered Cheney would be ten times worse. And I don’t think we can impeach Cheney, because as Vice President he doesn’t have the power to make damaging decisions. Even if we could, the possibility would cause chaos among the House Democrats (who would have to be in the majority for impeachment to be even possible); do you think Hoyer, for one, not to mention all the 2008 mentionables, would sit idly by and let Nancy Pelosi become President? I say, leave Bush in the White House and let him twist in the wind.
4. One good thing in all this is that Bush (and Laura, who is hardly blameless in all this) is fairly young and has a good twenty years left to endure the shame. Too bad Cheney’s so old and infirm. I’d hate for him to miss it.
Sharkbabe@33 – thanks for that link and the post.
Guantanomo has been screwed up in every aspect from the beginning, and mostly because the whole concept of Guantanomo, like the concepts for rendition and black site, have been the screwed up, fearfed, force and anger over law and reason, response of an arrogant bully, faced with the smoldering evidence of failure, who had to make someone pay for making him look bad.
It has been clear, at least from the time the Seton Hall kids did their first report, just how mind boggling the mess is, and it could have been predicted from the initial responses of the WhiteHouse, which seems to have decided to make DOJ one of the largest, private, NGOs ever seen.
It’s one thing to refuse to say “I messed up” in a press conf; it’s a whole different level of immorality to kidnap people, degrade, humiliate, torture and isolate them; and continue to do it, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, because you’ll “look bad” to admit a mistake.
Has any one of the “hearings” involving GITMO, the prosecution of the military engagements, the military commissions, etc. – any of them — have they bothered to have people like the Uighars, the “mistakes” come and testify? How about the law students – some now out of school – or their advisors who put together the Seton Hall reports?
No. No one wants to look at what we are really doing. It makes it so much easier to just say “worst of the worst” and “terrorists.”
It’s similar to the issue that Turley mentioned yesterday in his interview re: the violatons of FISA. No one wants to even begin to talk about and examine the CONSEQUENCES of the lawbreaking. How many people who work for NSA did Hayden, Addington, Ashcroft, Cheney, Bush, Gonzales and the whole crew of general counsels and Deputy AGs and on and on —- how many people in our government and its agencies were they willing to make felons? Not for a one time excursion, but on a continuing basis, for day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year?
They wrap the consequences for their lies, lawbreaking, torture, corruption, amorality, immorality, idiocy, violations of oaths of office, war crimes, domestic crimes, and ego driven bullying — they wrap it all around people like soldiers at GITMO, techs and employees at NSA, and FBI & CIA agents, so that they are insulated, not by the “power of office” or leadership, but very simply by their willingness to use people in our own government as the pawns who would have to fall as well if you go after them.
It’s far worse than Iran Contra or anything of any scale I can think of — and I detest every lawyer who let themselves be a part of structuring the sacrifice of government and of Americans to protect the divinity and trinity of Bush, CHeney and Addington. Taylor didn’t need to mention that we don’t have Kings; she need to tell the Government lawyers that, while they have freedom to worship at the feet of power all they want, if they want to be lawyers and practice in her court they need to get up off their knees.
OT….FOX news 11AM EDT…….Iran has taken over an oil rig off its coast………
Flash….Joe Lieberman will be Glenn Beck’s guest for at least the next 20 minutes……..can we say marriage to the GOP media? Not sure I can listen to it all, but I’ll try to…….
I like “hornet’s nest theory, doesn’t hold water.”
Um. . .he’s come undone.
Stuart Eugene Thiel @ 119
The counterpoint, of course, is that any impeachment proceedings against Bush might well show that Cheney did make damaging decisions, whether he has the Constitutional power to do so or not. And if Cheney made damaging decisions without the Constitutional power to do so…well, you do the strict construction….
[…as I was writing before the cycling team that powers the grid around here took their fucking water break]
Thanks for the article, Christy—definitely one to Spotlight to the right people.
“Then think about how few containers are being inspected — even today — at our nation’s ports. Every single day”
Here’s an example of how a small and solvable problem becomes part of an excuse for failure to oversee essential activities properly. Disgustingly enough, proffered excuse invokes an oversight problem:
Seems that Stephen Flynn, port security expert who many here have probably read somewhere, got a bit of a swiftboating because possibly in some of his articles and appearances he did not always make it perfectly clear that he had worked as consultant for a company that makes a scanner that can be used at ports (and is, in Hong Kong).
Now, no question that Flynn should disclose this; in fact he did, before Congress. But these articles and testimonies are far from the point where contracts are drawn up, money appropriated, etc. If anyone in Congress were interested in cleaning that kind of conflict up(!) there would be plenty of opportunity. And there are some other caveats to the story such that it would seem more harmful to disregard Flynn than at least to hear his considered advice.
You can see the Times (how I wish I could render that font!) defend the integrity of our federal procurement process here. ThinkProgress described Congress’s earlier whiff here.
..busy morning here, so I’m gonna jump ahead and then continue catching up, even if it takes all day…
Christy at 16
Please don’t ever feel the need to apologize for a long post. Whenever you’re cookin’, we’re happy to lap up every morsel of your rich prose, enjoying the links as seasoning on whatever marvelous stew you prepare!
apologies – near the end of fasting diet here, & I get to eat tonight, yahoo. you should see all the typos I’m trying to correct as I go along – bound to miss some…
Glad you got to the doc and little peanut is comin’ along. So tough on parents too when little ones are sick.
(({{{MommyDaddyPeanut ReddHedd}}}}}
TPM just posted link to poll showing Liberman & Lamont statistically tied
scarecrow @ 113
FWIW, I frequent another site (Sports) where the total number of comments made by the commenter is displayed underneath their name/handle. I’m not looking to raise what Jane is already paying but, I just wanted to mention that the technology exists. As we grow, people come and go. Displaying the number of comments someone has made is a non-threatening way to let everyone know who is a “newbie” and who is not.
One technical drawback might be that we would have to register in order to employ this technology. This might inhibit growth. I think one of the things that people like about FDL is that it’s so easy to comment.
Probably about to be EPU’d, but here goes anyway:
So, we have an ongoing war with an open-ended commitment, a petulant president who, in addition to not thinking the Iraqis are properly grateful for our unrequested intervention, is clearly annoyed that the American people aren’t thrilled about it either, a laissez-faire Republican Congress, and a judicial branch that is functioning as the enabler, blessing pretty much any policy that comes out of the executive branch, no matter how blatantly unconstitutional.
And the big question is always, “Well, what are the Democrats going to do about it? What are they going to do that will make things better?”
Accountability is a fine concept, but what does it mean? I understand that voters who believe that their elected representatives have not fulfilled their responsibilities to the country can hold them accountable for that by voting for someone who will fulfill those duties – or who will try. Whether there will be success depends on whether it is the Dems in the majority or the GOP, and we all know that the GOP is going to fight tooth and nail to prevent the Dems from being in a position to implement accountability.
Okay – so let’s say we once again have the power to hold people accountable. How does that change the decisions on Iraq? Does it mean that we hold up funding, and get accused of further endangering the lives of those fighting? Does it mean there’s a greater likelihood that the “commanders on the ground” are emboldened to make significant strategic changes that will make a difference?
One thing we know is that if we take a majority in Congress, we are going to have to see significant changes at all levels of government, on all the fronts we’ve been squawking about, in order to be in a position to keep that majority in 2008 AND have any chance of taking the White House.
Are the Dems up to that challenge? Can they get things done? Can they get things done AND hold people to account for the bad decisions AND keep us from sliding into the abyss?
Regarding the line of succession (VP, Hastert, then down through the cabinet (always did find it strange that unelected officials jumped in from #4 on down), how many people to we have to kill to work our way down to where ever Feingold sits?
How’s about you plan to withdraw the troops, but don’t tell anybody – not even the troops, until they on getting on the bus home? Thus no emboldening of the bad guys. Oh yeah, I forgot this is the Administration that never met a secret they didn’t want to divulge if it would create a shitstorm that they could milk to their political advantage.
“I detest every lawyer who let themselves be a part of structuring the sacrifice of government”
Thanks very much Mary.
Is there anyway local or State Bar Associations can hold these specific attorneys accountable?
scarecrow — thanks. As you say, it’s always nice to know people have got your back. If you see Lisadawn, say, “Hey!” from me!
I do think some of these clowns actually believe they’re promoting democracy (though it’s doubtful it’s their main motivation.) But it’s the Republican definition of democracy — there’s an election, and the right people win. Nothing else counts. We know they don’t think “the will of the people” should have anything to do with government, here or elsewhere.
And it’s not just that democracy can’t be imposed, it’s that these idiots don’t believe in government, so they’ve never actually looked at how it actually works. It never occurs to them that functioning, trustworthy institutions, and not just ballot boxes, are necessary for a democracy to function. Their version of “exporting democracy” is like building a car by taking a go-cart, filling it with gasoline, and trying to start it.
Not particularly OT at all: Tom Tomorrow snarks again.
Christy – IMO this is the part of his depresser that indicates someone has tried to talk to him about the underlying problems and he, as a mama’s boy, just refuses “worry his beautiful mind” over it.
Gosh, resentment and lack of hope. Like, oh, maybe being held for years at GITMO, no contact with anyone, for years? Like watching your cities reduced to rubble, your children crushed under the collapsed structures, you power and food supplies shut off, no jobs, no work, while billions of dollars are handed off in cash to cronies who drive through your cities, pointing assault weapons at your people and shooting indiscriminately.
Like watching pictures of Abu Ghraib and hearing worse, collecting bodies from Bagram and backstreets in Baghdad, watching your historic shrines reduced to rubble, having a infidel force that insults and assaults your religion and your people in custody of your holy sites, every day, all day, no hope of them leaving.
Like watching civilians shot at checkpoints, killed in custody, flattened or dismembered by patrols and humvees that never pause, bombed in their beds, killed and raped in their homes, and all with no prospect of those troops leaving, ever. Like watching the last faint hopes of the United States as an honest broker in conflicts like Iraq and Lebanon fade; while dictators in Egypt and Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, who suppress and mistreat their own people, are assiduously supported by the US and are sent people to torture on behalf of the US; watching the US make the weak in the region suffer, while it tucks its tail before North Korea. And on and on. All the things our presence brings to the region.
Good thing we are taking care of all that “resentment and lack of hope.”
Scarecrow – Nice to see ya. I was looking for you last night. Thanks. You’re one of my favorite FDLers.
More from “American Theocracy”
Coincidentally, the corner-stone for the World Trade Center in NYC was laid in 1973. And does anyone really believe that the justification for the 1991 invasion of Iraq was about “democracy” (just look at the political situation in Kuwait today)? Interestingly, John Kerry’s lonely vote against that war was prescient. Lieberman on the other hand, has been all-oil all the time.
SharonW @
105
Thanks very much for the link, this is great news. It’s the trend lines that matter, imo. Ned, Hillary, Schumur and the other Dems can show this to the donors who are keeping Joe afloat. No one wants to back a loser. If Joe’s money raising dries up, he withdraws.
Well, that should make it clear. There are two choices:
1) The war in Iraq goes on until at least 2009. Good idea, eh? Going great so far, only a few thousand Americans dead, only about 20,000 or so injured/maimed, right? You think those numbers are just going to stop growing right there?
2) If you can’t change the president’s mind, change the president. Impeachment might sound like a “non-starter”, but if George Bush is betting his presidency on the war – and is there *ANY* other way to take, “We’re not leaving as long as I’m president”? – then those are our choices.
If you’re not pro-impeachment, you’re not pro-war. There’s little talk of it in public among politicians, but almost half the country would approve if it was found Bush lied to take the country into war (anyone want to argue that he didn’t?), and if he’s going to play chicken with us to *KEEP* the war going, then, I’m sorry, but when 60% of the country wants to stop it, that’s the only option. Would it make Cheney president? I guess so. Would that be worse? Tell me how. What’s he going to be able to do that he can’t do now? And have you seen his approval ratings? He’s around eighteen percent. 18. You think he can’t be impeached if he threatens to continue the war? You think it’d be a popular decision? You think he might be slightly chastened by Republicans telling him, “Look what happened to Dubya, we don’t want to get our asses kicked in the next election, and you can’t rig them *all*, can you?”
Oh, I get to do it myself:
Hey, Lisadawn….
How’s every little thing?
Whoops, that should have read, “If you’re not pro-impeachment, you *are* pro-war.” Sorry.
“IMO this is the part of his depresser…”
LMAO.
Here’s the link you wanted:
Mayer’s article on Addington in the New Yorker
Accountability – it’s not just for school children and welfare recipients anymore.
Uranium lost in New Jersey, radioactive material missing globally
immanentize –
It’s going great. I’m here at work working on a report that was supposed to be written, reviewed and distributed by 11am this morning. So of course I’m taking a short break to read up here at my favorite place to be. Thanks for last night.
Peterr at 68 — wonderful quotes from Carter. It is telling that when a true Christian speaks out, she/he is vilified by the pretend Christians. I’m on the mailing list for Melanie Morgan’s outfit, and she’s been on a campaign that is little short of calling for Carter’s crucifiction. Thanks for the link.
#4 from StuartET’s @119
News Flash!
Sources say Death Cheney won’t be returning to Halliburton if he lives out his term. He has accepted an offer from Satan to be second in command in Hell. From Vice President of Vice to Deputy Devil, is this a promotion or just a sideways shuffle?
Chris @ 140
I wouldn’t go so far as that. It’s not as if the notion of Cheney openly making decisions from the Oval Office shouldn’t scare the bejabbers out of any sane person, after all–it’s just that you happen to be more correct, in my opinion at least, in your assessment that President Dickweed wouldn’t exactly have carte blanche at that point. Actually, I think any one impeachment might bring down the whole house, with Bush happening to be the weaker link.
twolf1 @ 143
Not necessarily news, just a reminder of the idiotic lunacy that grips our current so-called leadership….
lisadawn82 @ 143
That’s funny, that’s exactly what I am doing too!
scarecrow @ 145
I adore Carter. What a mensch. Both he and Rosalyn. Best – by far – ex-president we’ve had!
lisa dawn – glad to see you here today.
Anyone catch motor-mouthed Rahm (the Dems Newt Gingrich) last nite on Charlie Rose saying that if Soreloserman had one more week he would have caught Ned in the primary.
Anne@128
That is the real question. What are Dems going to do? Is anyone other than Waxman, Conyers and Feingold even thinking about it? There are not easy answers and they seem to want to say: let’s sweep it all under a rug and forget it for now – after all, it’s easier to talk about minimum wage and health care. We have no plans to implement those either, but its not as obvious as quickly.
SharonW @ 105
This is bad news for Lieberman, because undecideds generally break for the challenger, and Lamont is clearly the challenger in this race.
BC
8.2ontherichter @ 152
“If wishes was horses, we’d all be eatin’ steak.”
–Jayne Cobb
Chris @ 138:
Another problem with impeachment (although I’m still for it) is that when Dick takes office after Shrub’s impeachment, Dick gets to name a VP (with congressional approval). What if he names, say, McCain? Would the Dem’s impeach Dick and allow McCain to run as a sitting president? (I know there are impeachment scenarios that can circumvent this outcome, but they are convoluted and politically costly.)
Ed Deevy @ 18
loserman at 44%, Lamont at 42%
looks like joezoe is enjoying his last week as the leading candidate for Conectticut’s open Senate Seat
bye bye joezoe
8.2ontherichter @ 152
I heard that! Charlie Rose is a closet republican: He is more impressed by power than anything else. Because the logical follow-up question would’ve been, “would the voters have really believed that he was critical of the president? In light of his previous statements re critisizing the Pres during a time of war at the nation’s peril? Etc?
If Bush is impeached, so is Cheney (not that either will happen, we are too far gone for that IMO). Still, yet another reason to push hard to try to get Laesch elected, IMO.
MyDD has the new Rasmussen poll: http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/8/22/111212/953
Speaking of Charlie Rose last night, there was also a short phone interview with Clinton after Rahm. Charlie didn’t press him on Lieberman, and the possibility that his spoilership is risking Democratic Congressional challenges in CT.
(Its still all about Hillary all the time–which in terms of the Dem leadership, is what they are really up to, imo)
timewarp@54: I’ve read Phillips’ book, American Theocracy. Interesting book.
Glenn Beck with Joe Lieberman…
Joe wrote a letter of recommendation to get Glenn into Yale….
Q: start with Iran…want to start serious negotiations..
A: stick with UN demands, have been negotiating for 2 years, no results. Terrorist govt at helm, pres is fanatic by all estimation, we need to deal with him seriously to keep from development of nuclear weapons
Q: no comparison to Soviet Union despite those who wouldl ike to make the comparison…
A: There is no comparison for those in public life. We need to hammer in that cold war is not the same.
We fought lot of battles (in cold war), but always had confidence that leadership of USSR was not crazy, not to start nuclear war. Iran, are fanatical Islamic fascist terrorists who love death the way we love life in our culture, differetn from russians, more like fascist we fougnt in ww2
Q: Glen talking about connection to his Deep Throat sources–danger that Hezbollah or all of Lebanon will enter into more war, and that Iran will come into Iraq, set the entire ME on fire, find ourselves like Nagin with buses in parking lot. Why are not more pols saying guys this is ww3, we are in deeep trouble
A: So many people go at politics as if it were a sport, one team, dem or Rep, one team to win. There are larger interest such as US not just parties. People don’t like to face reality of danger, pols dont’ want to talk about it. Between now and 5th anniv of 9-11, saw tv program that was heartbreaking and infuriating what they did to us. Another terrorist plot uncovered last week. What you are saying is right. On the battle field Islamic extremists have attacked and they are in it for the long time. If we walk away Iranians will surely surge into Iraq, take over south where oil is……..
Q: price of oil shoots up
A: instability higher oil prices. We’ve got to wake up to this, test of not this generation but all generations of US leaders, this enemy isn’t going to go away
Q: we are trying to plant democracy, change face of ME, destruction of WMD was side benfit, head of the snake, no one could say that but it is true
A: WE cannnot fault Admin did right thing to go in. though Admin did oversell the WMD. Carey lieberman Iraq liberation act to get rid of Saddam who used his weapons to kill thousands. we did the right thing, have to finish it honorable way else it will haunt out kids,
Q: plant demoncracy, now sitting here and we have fought war poorly, in some ways fabulously, now we sitting at 1939 prior to WW2 Hezbollah is Chamberlain moment. 1939 is around the corner.
A: agree, echoes of that. Look like Spanish civil war, harbinger of Nazis. convince ouselves are containing this, say remarks of Churchill…..aim..in conflict nothing less than victory on the line as survival of country and the world.
GQ: agree with chruchill–west is over if we do not win this war
A: yes going to be a long one, same kinds of emotions w/leaders have to try to change, turn away from it and deny it isolationism, can have positions on Iraq, mistakes on tactics and methods after fall of saddam, are there now, how we finish will have effect on security.
Iraq is now another battlefield with Islamic fascists, must finish with victory.
Q: Joe folks say you are in the wrong party, what do you say?
Do you feel betrayed?
A: muddy situation, I have accused Lamont partisanship, their people behaving like older politicians in soviet union to purge from list of party members because wouldn’t vote 100% sign of the times. I am fighting to make sure there is strong national security wing in both parties. fate has taken a twist for me. lost primary. I have a meant to be feeling about it. Liberated by loss, empowered to say what I mean, what people want me to be. Sense of yearning to stop nonsense and forget party labels and solve problems not just security, but health car,e education and so on.
Q: few people that are in the right place at the right time with reich(SP) message, and you are now finding yourself in that position for a second time, second bite of the apple (as way 9 years ago) right person with right credibility, soon as you get it out no one can’t not support you. letterheads change do they not change sense that majority of Americans don’t care what party, want answers, screaming for solutions to the border issues, Iraq answers
A: People Act as if they don’t hear, I hear people in CT, saying I’m not a party person, I vote for the right person, exect you to do this as our senator, Fate took a turn, think I have a mission here, going to go at it with full force.
Glenn: Let’s do this again soon.
(decontaminates keyboard and washes hands. listeners commenting as Glen ratchets us the war/fear factor..)
whew!!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 16
I am so grateful for the skill and time you give to your posts. Thank you, Christy.
Mary @ 134
When you add in that the media in the rest of the world carries much more realistic pictures of the death and destruction – complete with blood on the streets and such, and prefaced with disclaimers like “the following is graphic and is likely to be unsuitable for children” – all that “watching” that you refer to is all the more gut-wrenching.
Cleaning the House and Senate in November can’t come soon enough. For thousands, in the Middle East and in the US, it’s already too late.
EvilDrPuma, two thoughts:
1) We need some variation on the concept of “news” – because “news” implies information/analysis that’s changed based on recent events – for things that are important to know, but haven’t changed. Maybe “static” (though that’s got connotations both of non-change *and* unintelligibility), but there *is* a growing body of information that *used* to be considered relevant and if not *news*-worthy, at least *informed* the presentation of news. (this was inspired by your comment #148)
2) I wouldn’t mind Cheney making decisions openly. Right now, we have this weird half-ass blur of accountability and authority that’s a fucking shell game: Who’s running things, Bush or Cheney? Who’s making presidential decisions, Bush or Cheney? How can we hold them accountable, by constitutional means (checks and balances) or by political means (removing them from office via election or impeachment)? Who should we target first? Should we wait until they’re really unpopular and destructive, or should we try to make them really unpopular before we act?
The way I see it, we’re paralyzed by the choices and indecision among ourselves, and so we are *not* condemning them and their violations of the law and political good sense (really, when did lying about war and slandering one’s opponents become something that we’re supposed to take as job qualifications and insulation against political attacks?) and we are *not* holding them accountable, and we are *not* showing them that we are politically powerful and that our wishes should be respected, or that we can make threats and carry them out.
Coincidentally, we’ve also been on the losing end of a *lot* of political battles in the last six years, and I like the idea of fighting more than the idea of losing more, even if it does mean having another impeachment. That said, however, I’d also *like* the Democrats (and non-insane Republicans) to realize that if they’re going to impose some accountability on these guys, they’re going to need to actually clip Bush and Cheney’s wings. The fact that they’ve failed to use any *other* means to hold them accountable means we don’t have a lot of other choices, and it means we don’t have a lot of practice at beating them, but not having a lot of choices also means that we can force them to choose: Either extend the war for three years (or more, god knows who’ll do what in 2009), or impeach Bush. If that doesn’t change Cheney’s mind, then they gotta be ready to impeach him too, because it’s not like he’s not guilty of all the same shit (and probably more).
Bush can’t just tell the public, “You’re gonna have three more years of war whether you want it or not” and not have consequences. We can’t avoid identifying those consequences if we want to avoid endorsing those three more years of war. I’m not saying we’re all ready for impeachment right now, but it’s not something we should ignore, when Bush says, “You’re going to get war as long as I’m president.” If you don’t want war, you need to make him not be president, and that means impeachment.
Comment above from Glenn Beck & Joe L on radio
[Magnificent] Mary at 120: Jane and Christy deserve tremendous credit for getting me off my complacent butt (may the gods forgive me), but your comments are at least an equal motivation. As a former attorney, I want more than anything to see you vindicated. You’ve been my V.
new thread: You’re No Democrat, Mr. Lieberman
Mary @ 152
It strikes me that this is a “critical mass” problem. The Dems will not do anything until there is a critical mass of those who have enough personal integrity and are not completely co-opted by their own powerful situation that they will be able to call “Bullshit.” And do it publicly. Until then, Feingold and Co. will just be amusing outliers to the MSM.
scarecrow @
168
[[[[[[[[APPLAUSE]]]]]]]]
“He is more impressed by power than anything else.”
I completely agree timewarp. He still gets some good guests, but if you’re in trouble, and you’re “high profile,” you can get your lawyer on Charlie’s show to smear the opposition. Don Imus comes to mind immediately.
Mack 58
I think he was speaking specifically of Connecticut, and how Lowell Weiker may just pull enough liberal Republicans over for Lamont to win.
Perhaps he expanded the idea to the rest of the country, but this is what I heard.
Mary, imm and others – while some would like to go straight for impeachment, I think a better approach might get to impeachment – or the functional equivalent – from more of a sideways direction.
I think if you can have investigations and hearings on a wide-ranging number of subjects, the evidence necessary for impeachment will prepare itself, perhaps to the point where we see defections and resignations up and down the chain.
With only two years until a new election, and with the slow-as-molasses pace of the Congress, it may, in fact, never get to impeachment, but it could see a number of people in the legal cross-hairs and could render the administration virtually powerless to continue on its current path.
For me, whatever satisfaction I could gain from seeing Bush run out of office in disgrace is outweighed by what I see as the urgent need to restore some sanity to government, to put things back on a constitutional course, to send a message to the world that the adults are now in charge and we have effectively rendered Bush and Cheney and others mere figureheads, unable to pull the trigger on any number of options that would have disastrous consequences.
Billmon had a great post yesterday in which he compared Bush to a hedgehog, curled up with its spines pointed outward, refusing to let reality intrude on his grand ideas.
Three men and a Condi?
(Man, Cheney looks old. What is he, about 85 now?)
John C – the option is prosecution and that will never happen. A memo that authorizes torture or describes an inventive way to commit war crimes, but try to think up a different label for them, those things are not legal work product; they are elements of conspiracy. You might have noticed what happened with the Office of Professional Responsibility “investigation” or the Inspector General investigations, not that either could be relied upon these days to be anything other than another round of talking point releases. I’m with the District Court Judge who had to ask, from the bench, why anything that DOJ says in her court should be believed— that is the legacy of the Bush administration lawyers. If their heads weren’t swollen to the size of mini-Hindenburgs, I’m sure it would be easier for them to pat themselves on the back.
{{Scarecrow}} I get so frustrated
sonate (156), if Cheney becomes president, his VP pick has to clear the Senate. I don’t know if a newly-invigorated Democratic party (majority or not) would be inclined to let McCain join the administration (it’s interesting to wonder about 2008) or let Cheney have his choice (*I* wonder if Cheney would start to be tempted to stay president for a while longer, though *that* makes me think martial law rather than elections, because he’s such a grouchy unbeloved figure; *that* may make him *avoid* McCain, and pick… who knows.).
And I’m not entirely confident that a President Cheney would decide to be chastened by the impeachment of Bush; he might well snicker to himself and say, “I don’t think Democrats have the stones to do two of ‘em in a row!” and be a real asshole (though by Cheney standards, that probably means nuking the moon). The thing is, I know Bush is daring Democrats to start talking about impeachment, but I don’t care if that’s because Karl Rove knows it’s a winner for them (and I don’t know if *that* would be because they’ll thwart it or because they expect Democrats to back down), or if it’s because Karl Rove wants to see Democrats abdicate political power again. Either way, I think it’s clear that it’s the only remedy that Bush is leaving us – “Want more war? No? Then you have to impeach me!” – and I don’t care if there’s a secret plan to attack Democrats for proposing it, because there are so many *NON*-*SECRET* plans to attack Democrats, and impeachment would be a well-deserved counter-attack. Do I trust Democrats not to fuck it up? Not really, but if the choice is another three years or war, I’ll go with talk of impeachment and see where that goes. It’s the only alternative, half the country is interested already (but nobody’s leading the charge), the establishment media is afraid to touch it because conservatives yell at them, and it would be good policy (stop the war) and politics (show Democrats have some balls). Maybe it’s not a winner in the polls yet, but there’s an argument to be made (already, by people like Digby and Atrios and Kos, etc., iirc) that people want Democrats to check Bush’s power, even if it makes for some angry cocktail parties in DC (damn, there was something else I was going to say on that tangent, and now it’s gone…).
. . . and your little dog, too @ 173
from what I hear, 9% of repuglicans NATIONWIDE intend to vote for the DEMOCTRATIC CANDIDATE in the upcoming
that’s enough for EVERY Democrat to win
we stand on the verge of a MAJOR SEA CHANGE here
Anne at 173 — I agree. Two years focused on impeachment would be a distraction from developing both the negative, anti-republican message and the necessary pro-Democratic party message necessary to pull off a very good ‘08 win.
Peter @165 – that is what the few “experts” I have heard that make sense have said; we’ve lost the battle already with the existing and upcoming generation. All we can do is try to minimize damage and get a realistic plan in place so we don’t keep losing every generation.
Christy Hardin Smith @
93
He could always be “interviewed” by Pam Oshry hehe.
Anne 174
Beautifully said!
As always.
OS, Thanks for the on-the-fly, boxscore of the Glenn Beck/JoMo softball game. I can’t decide which is worse reading the inane things Lieb spouts or watching them ooze from between the imprints of Bu$h’s butt that coat his lips.
By the way, does this mean that JoMo went to Yale also? Not only has the US squandered it’s reputation and honor thanks to this criminal administration, but Yale as well. Seeing how dumb Condi turned out, Stanford has an academic reputation to rebuild as well.
#163
hear,hear!
ruffian @ 184
Me Too!
theExile @ 184
Was she a student there or hired to be provost later?
Don’t know,(little dog) but she, at the least, spent time there, rubbing shoulders with the students/falculty etc.
Oops, since Bu$h was prolly out of Yale and either deserting from TANG, partying at Harvard or driving one of his business ventures bankrupt there may not have been much “shoulder rubbing”
going on.
Jesus H. Christ! Have those people never read the history of the Parliament in England and realized that it became supreme ONLY because it held the purse strings when the King went to war and needed additional money?
This was the history that was guiding the American founding fathers when they wrote the Constitution. That is WHY they wrote it the way they did!
I’m afraid that Israel’s failure to overcome Hezbollah’s resistance will be used by the neocons as the justification for using tactical nuclear weapons to blow-up Iran’s vast system of tunnels. After all, as Sy Hersh recently revealed Bushco urged Israel to invade Lebanon and provided them with money and weapons to do it. Bushco knew that Hezbollah immitated the Iranian system of decentralized defense using tunnels and storage facilities located more than thirty feet underground, which is beyond the reach of conventional bombs. Hezbollah’s defensive stand has been remarkable. Approximately one thousand people from villages near the border prevented Israel’s army from punching through Hezbollah’s first line of defense. Hezbollah didn’t even have to commit its army to the battle and it has been able to devote most of its resources to cleaning up the damage inflicted on the civilian population by Israel’s air force.
Iran will be a far more difficult task for our military than Hezbollah has been for Israel. Ergo, the necessity of using tactical nuclear weapons to invade and “bring democracy to the freedom loving people of Iran.” I can’t imagine a plan more insane, but I think I’m finally beginning to figure out neocon-think. Although it makes me sick to my stomach to consider this possibility, I believe that the order has been given to devise a warplan to invade Iran before the November election using tactical nuclear weapons.
God help us all.
Try this on for size.
From an April 2003 interview between Tom Brokaw and W Dipshit:
Q: Can you imagine being FDR and running World War II all those years? Truman, Korea? All the years that Vietnam went on and 57,000 lives were lost.
THE PRESIDENT: I know.
Q: Now that you’ve had your own –
THE PRESIDENT: One month.
Q: — one month, but your own time on the crucible, to know what the country would go through?
THE PRESIDENT: It’s a very interesting question, because — yes, I know, I can’t imagine what it would be like to have been through the Vietnam War as the President of the United States. I hope I would have done it differently, I hope I would have had a clearer mission and given the militaries the tools and their strategy necessary to achieve a mission, as opposed to politicizing the war the way they did. But you’re right, it’s a strain on the country.
From deep in EPUland…
Thanks to Christy for the fantastic post and thanks to all the great comments.
This is one of the best discussions I’ve read on FDL. So much knowledge and information shared that I’m writing this only half way through. Voicing the terrible reality we face but also knowing there are ways to find solutions, that there are possible solutions, and giving hope that if we work to do everything we can for the November elections we have a chance to turn this around.
YES to accountability for every incumbant, for every person who supposedly represents us. Accountability via our vote and accountability via the courtroom.
My Afghan employee, granddaughter of former leader of the state Mojaddidy, says that Afghan is correct, that Afghani refers to the currency, and that it’s actually not a big deal at all — she calls herself Afghani by accident all the time. So — I agree that I was over the top.
Thad
Bush: the best way to do hope is through a form of government
What the fuck did he just say???????
chs; great post, and so grow democracies, yah.
my question is; will the cheney-bush crime family be held accountable for executing their plan for total chaos in the middle east, or will they be held accountable for having no plan…
peas!
Sharkbabe @
33
Exactly! Keep that in mind. These people of Bu$hitCo, the Repuglicans, Fundi-leaders, neo-cons; they are sociopaths, or at the very least, Narcissistic Dysfunctional individuals, many criminal, also. Who knows what they are ultimately capable of, but you can be sure it will be without a care to the consequences for anyone but themselves.
Keep in mind: THEY ARE NOT LIKE US, THEY NEVER WILL BE!!!