
With all due respect, the folks who are singing the "time to move on" song regarding the Lamont/Lieberman race are, it should be noted, people who on the whole really didn’t care much about it in the first place and never saw the reason for the challenge. Which is fine. Don’t write about it then. But I think it’s important that it continue to be covered for a variety of reasons and we will continue to do so, and anyone who needs some sort of explanation for that decision should feel free to pick and choose from the following list:
1. Nobody cared about it when we started covering it in February, I don’t know why we’d be worried if they don’t care now. We cover it because we think it’s important and we want to write about it and our subject matter is not dictated strictly by the issue du jour.
2. The notion that somehow we are doing "Karl Rove’s bidding" by continuing to focus on the race is absurd. We’re not playing the race card, providing the illusion of bi-partisan support for a disastrous war or calling those who oppose it traitors, or destroying the candidacies of three Democrats in House races. Joe Lieberman is doing all those things, and the minute he gets out of the race it stops.
3. I can only speak for myself but I got into covering this race because the idea that the Gang of 14 would use its power to confirm another Alito should a SCOTUS vacancy occur in the next two years was intolerable. If Lieberman wins, no price will be paid, no message will have been sent. No other member besides Lincoln Chafee is in danger of losing his seat, and his challenge is coming from angry wingnuts. Am I supposed to shrug my shoulders at the prospect of the next 30 years with a 5/4 court just because someone thinks it would make Karl Rove happy? I’m not Pavlov’s dog — yet.
4. I like this story. If you can get the New York Times on the phone and make them stop covering it because other races need more attention, maybe we’ll have something to talk about. In the mean time, there are plenty of other blogs.
5. What don’t folks understand about the notion that once you’ve got your boot heel on someone’s windpipe it’s time to finish the job, not remove your foot? Follow-through, people. I simply cannot bear another two years of "the bloggers have never backed a winning candidate," and aside from my personal priorities I really can’t see how it does any good for progressive politics or the netroots in general.
6. I suppose there is an argument to be made that any Democrat is better than any Republican but I am just not that cynical yet. You want to support Bob Casey? Here’s his web site, go wild. He’s the hand picked candidate of Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer in a pro-choice state who went out of his way (when nobody asked) to say he would’ve voted to confirm Alito. I’m sorry but I’m really not willing to go to the mat for a party full of Bob Caseys, and Chuck Schumer marching around like Basil Fawlty shrieking "nobody mention the war!" is not my idea of bountiful and rewarding November.
7. The Schumerian Policy of Centrist Appeasement (#6 above) is a bit of a disaster, and the DLC’s contention that they "know how to win elections" seems to have precipitated nothing but a race to the bottom. Grover Norquist’s vision of Democrats as a buch of happy, neutered farm animals has at last bee realized — there is much to suggest they have come to accept "the finality of their powerlessness." I would very much like this state of affairs to end, now.
8. The primary race was driven on the Lieberman side by lame Democratic consultants. Holy Joe has now brought in the right-wing noise machine, and they are leading the media around by the nose far more than Marion Steinfels ever could. If there was ever a need for what we do, it’s now.
9. You can’t carry on an effective battle if you can’t consolidate your own ranks first. As Art Torres said the other day, it’s time to kick the Republicans out of the Democratic nominating process. I firmly believe it will only strengthen the party going forward.
10. Everyone who contributes to this blog is free to decide what they write. I don’t tell them what they should care about, and I really don’t know where anyone else gets off thinking they’re in a position to dictate that, either.
All that is a very elaborate way of saying we will continue to cover the Lamont/Lieberman race. I will also say that we probably do as much or more for progressive candidates in other races than any other website in the liberal blogosphere, so those who are inclined to criticize our allocation of blogospheric resources would do best to hit the "Blue America" button on the top of the page and keep the donations flowing if they want to see more action on that front.
In the mean time, we’ll be writing about the stuff we think is important. And yes, that will most definitely include Ned Lamont.
(graphic by NeoJoe)
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Damn straight!
Rove would play a compassionate race card? Slap me silly.
Absolutetly! I’m 100% with you on this! The Lamont race is about the future of the Democratic party.
oh goody…
Oooh, number none! I’d say it’s my first, but I guess more accurately it’s my 0th.
Go Ned!
Go Jane!
Webb has pulled even with Allen!
Jane,
Any closer to deciding on the next car? I was stunned at how much high quality information came out in the biodiesel thread yesterday.
Way to go, Jane.
What gets me is these people think it is no loss if Lieberman wins. That would be fine by them! They see no down-side to that at all.
I guess some people like being neutered animals.
excellent.
opps. I mean neutered farm animals…with Joe tending the herd.
Watching and reading Lamont this past week, I’m mostly impressed how MODERATE he is. He’s very articulate, both on TV and in print – the WSJ op-ed should be read to every person who thinks Lamont is a risky choice for leadership.
This is the fight of all fights, and I still want that wheezer out.
Jane:
Thanks for that rebuttal…I agree, we need to keep focused until Joe is working for his favourite lobbyist.
I rememeber reading about Lamont for the first time on this blog. Didn’t think he had a chance then, but was glad you were at least talking about a potential challenger.
Today, most people would bet that Lamont is going to win in November.
I look forward to future targetting of other blue state democratic senators and reps whose primary goal is to provide a bi-partisan cover for the most radical republican ideas.
Well said!! And I second that your concern especially with SCOTUS. We are truly in crisis mode to prevent another Alito.
From Newsday!
Lamont dines with deputy Israeli prime minister
August 19, 2006, 3:49 PM EDT
HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) _ Democratic U.S. Senate candidate Ned Lamont attended a dinner in New York with Israel Deputy Prime Minister Shimon Peres on Friday night, Lamont’s campaign said.
Lamont campaign manager Tom Swan said Lamont was invited to a small, private dinner hosted by a mutual friend in New York City.
http://www.newsday.com/news/lo…..onnecticut
Here’s one outcome . . .
LIEberman loses the primary
Karl calls Joe
Repubs effectively withdraw support from Schlesinger, support LIEberman
Dems do not stand 110% behind Lamont
Dems do not categorically oppose LIEberman
Suppose LIEberman wins?
Suppose he then gets another call from Karl – the cabinet appointment is ready for you
Does Jodi Rell gets to appoint a repub to the Senate?
Dems do not get control of Senate
windje
To a certain extent, I welcome Lieberman’s self-serving run. It opens up an incredible opportunity to send an extremely clear message to the Democratic Party that we’re not playing games here. If we can knock Lieberman out for good, the message sent will have a huge impact. It’s going to be an enormous struggle, but the payoff is huge. I understand the importance of other campaigns, but the Lamont/Lieberman race has the potential to have an enormous impact on incumbent politicians.
I must return to lurking since I apparently am unable to proof my own comments. I’m redfaced and will stf up.
At 6:00 p.m. EDT, CNN is going to feature coverage of what it appears they are going to characterize as George Allen’s racial slur.
Ed*ard Teller — Kobe has let it be known that he would like a Mercedes 300td wagon. Many thanks to everyone who contributed to that thread.
The poodles and I are sitting here drinking ice tea and eating chips & salsa with Siun. Much fun.
ccmask, wow! I was just talking with friends last night about how Ned needs to connect in a high-profile way with the Jewish contingent. He’s an amazing strategist, and a sincere one.
We like.
Thanks, Jane.
**Standing Ovation**
Thank you Jane…. you hit every bullet point that I have been ragging on since August 8th.
We need to hit Senator Harry Reid & the DSCC with a new wave of emails & phone calls letting them know that we want RGJoe stripped of his committee participations and we want him stripped NOW!
RGJoe is NO LONGER a Democrat and every day he is showing it!
Jane – thanks for your continued focus on this crucial race. I do see this as a battle for the heart & soul of the Dem party.
I think many Dem party leaders would like us all move on, since most have done little more than pay lip service to support for Lamont. This race has lifted the rock and exposed all the insects scattering for cover and many of us are really struggling to come to terms with what the Dem party has become.
I, for one, have been scratching my head the past few years to try to understand what’s going on and why such bad decisions are being made. Now we know why. Reid, Schumer and the like need to be held accountable for passively allowing Lieberman to run as an Independent “Dem” who may or may not be allowed to keep his seniority, etc. if he wins. Shame, shame, shame.
Besides, as the last thread on Dr. Wulsin attests, FDL highlights a lot of races around the country – not just the Senatorial race in CT.
Thanks, Jane. This very much needed saying. Following the Lamont/ Lieberman race (first at FDL) was a great political education for me, and, I’m sure, others. Don’t let up. Also, here’s a quote from Christy on another thread that I bookmarked, because I agreed so much- especially “[]it is also a fight that had to come to a head sooner or later.”
Christy Hardin Smith @
136
Wow! We just lost power here. What a storm-Geez!
Anyway….a snippette from a long story at the link:
Closer to home, the Baltimore Sun published an unsigned editorial on August 15, 2006, entitled, “An Imperfect Cease-Fire,” dealing with Israel’s unjust invasion of Lebanon, which took the lives of over 1,100 Lebanese and left a million of its people, one third of the nation, homeless; along with tens of billions in damages. It must have been ghostwritten by Sen. Joe Lieberman, a flaming Likudnut. It stated, contrary to all the well-know facts: “Israel was dragged into this war by Hezbollah in early July.” Offering such an absurd opinion is like arguing that Israel was “dragged into” attacking a clearly identified USS Liberty, on June 8, 1967, and killing 34 of its crew, because it couldn’t stand any state of the art intelligence vessel, flying the American flag, and sailing in international waters, 14 miles off the Sinai coast. The Israelis’ dubious excuse for that murderous assault was that it thought the USS Liberty was an out-of-service Egyptian horse carrier transport boat, El Quseir. [5] If anyone expects to read the truth about a habitually-deceiving Israel, vis-�-vis the Middle East, don’t look to the Baltimore Sun’s editorial page to find it. [6] By the way, talking about proportionality, if Israel can destroy Lebanon because two of its soldiers were captured, what should the U.S. have done to the Zionist state for slaughtering 34 of her bravest sons and injuring 174 more on the USS Liberty?
http://usa.mediamonitors.net/c…..full/34394
To paraphrase what NED sez about the Iraq War, Lamont’s not the ONLY issue here at FDL, but it’s the central issue. His people-powered campaign for America’s future and against his party’s biggest Bush-booster is the central narrative in taking back the Republic.
More NED please!
mjh, please, don’t be silly. Jump in. I am always making scads of typos and posting ill-formed sentences and saying pissy things. Sometimes all at the same time. It’s always great to see a new poster.
Frankly, I think the lurkers and bloggers spewing this undiluted crap are all ReThug trolls.
Jane has the right of it.
We must crush Joerus’s nutsack and every other ReThug or Spineless Dem we can get to.
The citizenry, in more than one poll, have indicated that they are ready to dump the ReThugs but only, only if Democrats can show they are going to stand up and clean up the mess BushCo has made.
The neutered turkeys Schumer and Emmanuel have no clue as to what to do.
It’s up to us and Governor Dean.
And yes write Reid and demand he act like a leader.
Actually, our current crop of Democratic Senators need to go to the next level, Harry Reid needs to stump for Jack Carter, Baucus needs to be out there for Jon Tester, Pelosi needs to be out there helping that whole list of California Dems, McNerney, Brown, etc.
Then they need to get their butts to CT and do a tour with Lamont showing their support.
The fact that McCain has loaned two staffers to Lieberman to help him build his ground game just pisses me off. That means RGJoe is hanging out with one of the worse war hawks in the ReThug posse.
Ned Lamont a is radical millionaire socialist businessman who’s opinion of the Bush’s Iraq War is supported by the fringe 67% of Americans.
-GSD
Feel free to refer to the war as Bush’s Iraq War over and over again.
mjh: Welcome to the other side.
All of the above.
Great 10-point STFU.
TPM is pissing me off these days.
I was at DemocracyFest in San Diego when Maxine Waters announced she was going to CT to campaign for Ned. I wish you could see 1100 people give her a standing ovation, pretty much bring down the amphitheater.
I know that Howard & Jim Dean know that this fight is for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. Especially with the DLC slings and arrows thrown at Howard Dean.
A.Citizen @ 29
Not really. Atrios has been criticizing Josh Marshall, who for reasons I don’t understand is really out to lunch on this issue.
I love this quote from atrios’s blog on the post at tpm re Lamont:
“Crap. My two favorite blogs are having a catfight. So which one is being blogofascist?”
TeddySanFran @ 26
What Teddy said!
. . . and your little dog, too @ 37
ditto
I agree punaise, even emailed Josh… told him that he does not get it and he will be loosing readers.
But then, he sees himself as one of the inside DC’ers and then we are the angry hord with pitchforks pounding on the gates….
There are many good ways to be a Democrat. Joe Lieberman demonstrates none of them. Ned Lamont demonstrates most, if not all of them.
We (broadly, those of us still interested in a progressive democratic republic) don’t need only one kind of candidate, and one kind of campaign. Supporting Ned Lamont would be important if only to demonstrate that. That Lamont has a chance to unseat a Senator who has become poisoned with power and enchanted with his ego makes it more important still.
Go Jane!
meta @ 27
You said it meta, welcome mjh. Occasionally the English majors will lightly scold us for mistakes, but sorry, I don’t have an English degree, nor do I get paid professionally to write. I am a retired professional chef but I don’t scold anyone for not knowing how to cook perfectly. ;) Enjoy yourself here and relax, the water is fine…
katymine @ 39
katymine,
I think Josh is gone this weekend and a guest poster, dk, posted the circular firing squad item.
I’ll bet “ck” doesn’t stand for Dennis Kucenich…….
I mean “Ill bet “dk”…………”
katymine @ 39
I have tremendous respect for Josh Marshall and his crew; they do excellent reporting / muckraking. I can even accept that he’s a left-leaning centrist. But what’s frustrating is that shortly after having seemingly turned the page on Joe and his all-about-me antics, he’s back to hedging his bets in a huge way. Not saying he’s necessarily wrong in his specific analyses of the CT race (altough he was late to the party) – he just seems a bit too eager to find a reason to frown on Ned.
I guess it’s hard to quit being a DLC-type….
(BTW the current atrios/TPM tiff inolves a guest-poster at TPM, not Josh Marshall).
Chuck Schumer as Basil Fawlty has to be the laugh of the day. Thank you Jane, I will never be able to look at poor Schumer the same again.
Question for your critics, precisely who put a gun to your head and made you read Firedoglake? And who is preventing you from blogging about whatever it is you think is important?
Thanks Ed*ard Teller, I did not catch that it was not Josh since he has been going along the same meme… so he is a Josh twin….
Thanks for the heads up
Josh Marshall said many times in the run-up to the Lieberman/Lamont primary that “I don’t have a dog in this race.” He didn’t care who won.
He’s never thought it was very important. Don’t know why he would be changing his mind now … unless, deep down, he did sort of favor Lieberman.
Josh is pretty moderate. He was kinda iffy on the whole Iraq War thing, as I remember. I think he saw where some good might come out of it. I think he expressed support for forcible regime change.
On another topic, Lamont cozying up to the Israelis doesn’t seem like a wonderful thing to me. Can someone explain why that should be cause for celebration?
Josh has said more than once that he really likes Lieberman. Maybe it’s the fact that he knows Joe’s friends and hears little heartwarming inside anecdotes or whatever. He’s entitled to his opinion. I personally don’t see it, and having someone with such ability and intelligence splooge out like that when Ned is such a fine person in stark contrast, well – I don’t know what to say. He’s got more information that I do obviously, but I’ve seen enough of Joe the Opportunist, thank you.
BIG OL’ DITTO to all above except lisa’s last graf!
I’m convinced. Get Joe and don’t forget to go after your local Goopers, too.
His song about purging good Democrats is crap. He abandoned ship and the central committee in DC doesnt really get it.
Well said, Jane. It is one of Rove’s signature tactics to persuade his opponents that their strength is their weakness. The Lamont candidacy represents a unique opportunity for progressives and the netroots to effect real change.
Joe Lieberman has demonstrated over and over again that he is a selfish and conceited tool of the GOP. Are there other, worse, individuals in the Senate? Doubtless. But this is the “fox and the grapes.” Only success in CT will make further gains possible. Let’s keep our eyes on this ball and hit it out of the park (if you will excuse the cliche sports metaphor).
One thing I’ve learned from the Lamont/Lieberman race is that Congress is 3/4 Republican.
My view of TalkingpointsMemo credibility has dropped in my eyes with his steadfast support of RGJoe. You see, I do judge a person by the company they keep.
Me, I feel privilaged to hang out here… Well have a nice afternoon, going out to run my Saturday errands…. catch ya later
Jane:
Please keep doing what you are doing. All of your reasons for covering the Lamont vs. That Other Guy race are good ones, and you do it well.
So “TPM Reader DK” wants to stop a circular firing squad in an election by starting one in the blogs?
That’s a novel approach.
Question for DK at TPM:
How can it be a “Democratic circular firing squad” when even the frickin’ NYT now says that Lieberman’s a Republican?
So Laura Rozen has this one sentence up:
“Has Bush called some people to inquire if they would be willing to replace Rumsfeld? In the past ten days?”
Not let me see, that would be the mother of all ” fashionably late” inquiries. Perhaps he’s looking for more credibility for his next conquest. Chokehold Cheney might be tired of restraining that trigger finger. So is Short Ride in the rolodex?
Lisa @ 47
Lamont having a meal or meeting with the Deputy PM of Israel isn’t necessarily bad. I see it as a good thing in that Lieberman’s minions have been accusing Lamont supporters of anti-Israel tendencies or roots – or worse.
What’s Lamont supposed to do, refuse an invitation to meet a credentialed foreign diplomat?
Phoenix Woman @ 56
Bingo
Lisa, because dialogue is important? Because when you isolate nations they tend to do things in isolation? Because diplomacy hasn’t been tried in forfreakinever?
May I propose a Number Eleven for your list, please, Jane?
IT AIN’T OVER
Thanks to stinkyman’s ego-grandstandalicious bid to keep Hadassah’s employers and BushCo’s warmongerers happy, this election ain’t over. And the story ain’t over either. What’s up with a “liberal Democrat” who “votes with his party over 90% of the time,” who’s been “endorsed by single-issue groups like NARAL” allied with:
Rove
Hannity
Coulter
Gingrich
Cheney
G. Gordon Liddy
and John McCain’s Ground Gamers?
By their company ye shall know them.
… oh, and an unpulled thread on this skein, please, TradMed: “hacked website reporting on Election Day!!” What say you, Tweety?
Jane,
I have a question will the hardcore religious Republican base turn out for Lieberman simply on the orders of Rove?? Will they form the base of Lieberman’s GOTV ground game?? After all how many Dominionist and Talibangelists are there in Connecticut? Surely not all Republicans in Connecticut are Club for Growth, Country Clubbing Libertarians. Because right now the only appeal that Lieberman can make to these white “Christian” voters is scary black men taking over the congress dog whistle racism.
One real wild card in the Connecticut race is the position of Reverend James Dobson. What if the only hope of turning out the hardcore religious conservative Republican base is Dobson. Personally I do not know how many Dominionist followers of Dobson there are in New England but Rove may need every vote he can get.
Secretly Dobson knows that Lieberman has intentionally served his interests very well. Without Lieberman as the frontman talking to the media it seemed very unlikely the gang of 14 would have held in support of Alito. Lieberman certainly sank any hopes of an Alito filibuster. Now, Dobson has put himself out on a limb with his followers that GWB must have a chance to put one more Justice on the supreme court if at all possible. Right now the Supreme Court may whittle away at Roe v. Wade but is unlikely to kill it. Dobson is promising followers to kill Roe V. Wade. Supporting Lieberman is Dobson’s best shot.
The problem is as I see is that Rove is hoping he does not have to call on Dobson to openly support Lieberman. Doing so would be such a craven move by Dobson, Rove and Lieberman. NARAL would look like absolute babes in the woods idiots for ever supporting Lieberman. Ken Salazar and his enemy Dobson would be in the same bed as well. Dobson would leave himself open for attack as a completely unprinicipled political opportunist, manipulator and Charlatan for the first time by at least some of the MSM.
Seriously is the average abortion clinic protestor cynical and sophisticated enough to go along with Dobson on a Lieberman endorsement.
Lieberman would have to come up with some kind of twisted New Republic/Andrew Sullivan style I am pro-choice but not on Constitutional individual right basis argument. After eighteen years JoeJoe might say that basically that Roe V. Wade was an improper activist decision that would been best decided 30 years ago by a majority vote in each state bullshit. I doubt it would work but Rove may be able to swing majority of the MSM to at least give cover to the new found “centrism” of Lieberman’s now anti-Roe abortion stand.
To me an all out attempt to get Lieberman elected as the Stealth Republican candidate would really expose the naked calculations of the Republican stand on abortion as a way to bring out the rube vote.
Sounds crazy but true virtue of the Lamont/Lieberman fight is for once everybody would know on which side of the street they really stand on.
kyping another one from atrios. But this idea is very intriguing!
“I think that the Dem leadership and the 2008 contenders should get together with Lieberman and make him an offer he could willingly accept and cannot refuse. If the reports we have all read about Lieberman actually considering a SecDef position from the current administration were true, then maybe there is a brighter bauble out there that the Dems can hang before Lieberman to get him out of the senate race, and fall 100% behind Lamont and the other Dem candidates. If the Dems take the White House in 2008, thare is no doubt in my mind that Justice Stevens will be retiring. Our Dem leaders and candidates should offer Lieberman the nomination to replace Stevens (or anyone else who might go before
Stevens). Frankly, I think Lieberman would be a fair Justice, and a pretty progressive one on most of the issues that are important to the Dems. It would also offer Lieberman a very respectable and face saving way out. And it would be very interesting to see if any in the GOP could oppose Lieberman’s nomination considering the outpouring of love directedhis way these past few months.
bubba | 08.19.06 – 5:23 pm | #”
Jane, I agree that the only response necessary to those who say “stop talking about this” (like the ones who say “why aren’t you talking about that?”) is “Get your own blog!”
Blogspace is not a limited resource. No one is forced to come here. If you don’t like it, find somewhere else you like better, or create it yourself. If you like it here except for that one thing, then be polite and skip over the part you don’t care for.
Seems pretty simple.
As an aside, the real interesting question is who holds sway in the Republican Party; neocons, evangelicals, or some unholy combination of the two? As to Lamont talking with Peres, it makes a lot of sense. First, Israel is being used by the neocons to fight their war that is actually putting Israel in greater danger than before the invasion of Iraq. Second, the evangelicals want to kill or convert all Jews (the rapture). Therefore, someone needs to explain to Jewish voters in Conn. that Liarman supports policies that will lead to the destruction of Israel (by the neocons idiotic policy) and the end of the Jewish religion (evangelicals).
This scenario rings scarily true. The Reekpublicans have in Jilted Joe both a mole and a true spoiler. Reid and Schumer must see this at the very LEAST as a possibility. So – what am I missing here? Somebody please explain how NOT giving Lamont strong support now benefits anybody but the Bushies and the status quo?
Alice Marshall @ 45
Somehow, I can also see Hillary in the Prunella Scales role, standing at the Front Desk cawing “Baaaaaaasil!” at Chuckles.
teehee.
mjh, are you still here? We met the other night, right?
Make an example of Joe.
You take out the Gang Of 14’s biggest guy, former Dem VP candidate, DLC poster boy and Pundit’s Darling.
You take him out in the primary. You take him out again in the general election. He will not listen to reason so you ruin him and grind his political future and brand of selfish politics into the dust.
You let every power broker and insider feel less secure that they call the shots.
Their shiny Senator will be been defeated and rejected. They’ll piss and moan and cry about it but they’ll all remember.
Elephants never forget
Jane Hamsher @
20
That’s the one Jane! It’s the same model my friend runs bulk cooking oil in. Hope you can find one. Good luck.
The idea of Lieberman on the Supreme Court makes me sick to my stomach!
katymine @ 38
And he’s against that?
I know he has a Poodle, and all, but Hmm . . . .
Jane,
I brought up something like this last night. I was just thinking out loud ; )
I would never want to see Lieberman on the Supreme Court of all places. We’re in enough danger as it is. I want to see him leave public life.
C-SPAN showing Darcy Burner talking at DCC.
LindaR @ 71
Ditto
What Rape victim would want RGJoe making decisions on birth control or Plan B, the thought makes me sick…. horror movie fright scream…. YEEEEEEE
From Talking Points Mem:
The Lamont-Lieberman race is still at a stage where the principal fight is going to happen in the media. The large portion of the likely november electorate is still figuring out its minds. Lamont has tried hard enough, but unfortunately Lieberman has moved a little more agressively in trying to redefine himself as the centrist savior, and to define Lamont as a radical.
Fine, let the 2006 election in part be about just how lame and wrong the MSM’s CW has been. 60% of Americans are against the Iraq War and want withdrawl not two more years of clusterfuck. Bush’s approval rates are at record lows, with the most favorable polls having him at not better than 40% approval the lowest at 33%. The vast majority of Americans expect the Democratic party to function as a true opposition party preventing the Republicans from doing more harm to the country. That is complete counter to Lieberman’s position as a Republican enabling centrist lapdog.
Having Lamont win in Connecticut is critical to changing the language of what is politically possible and acceptiable. It is crucial step to laying the groundwork for victory in 2008. Like Jameson Foer over at Media Matters for American says changing the Media’s conventional wisdom and blind acceptance of Republican talking point is what is at stake here. Face it in that case the key battle is in Connecticut.
Bless you, Jane. I couldn’t agree more. Hope your travels go well.
I meant DLC
Ed*ard Teller @ 63
Joe needs to wake up with a horse’s head on his bed.
The thought of Joe being “rewarded” with a black robe is quite unpleasant.
meta @ 57
According to Sy Hersh, some sources say that Rumsfeld was less than enthusiastic about the Israel-Lebanon war that the neocons were so keen on (though reports are mixed.) It wasn’t for any good or moral reason, of course, but because he was worried about how it might affect Iraq, which is his baby.
I could see that failing to cheer enthusiastically enough could bring out the long knives against him, since they’re not real big on dissenting opinions…
The United States under the Republicans, or for that matter, any political party which subscribes to the tutelage of the neocons is not a friend of Israel. Jewish people in this country, Israel, and world wide who supported the American sponsored carnage in Lebanon and prolong the no-settlement policy regarding a Palestinian homeland are being sold down the river by the neo-nuts. This is an important message that the Democrats want to convey. It is said that that the Republican party garners about 25% of the Jewish vote. If Democrats could pull 1/2 that number away, it would be a big help. As for Bush. This man has less use for Jewish people than does an aardvark for a roasted ant.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0819-25.htm
aztrias@69 –
Amen. No dirty tricks. No backroom deals. Fight hard on the ground, and take him out.
And, of course, have the garlic and stake ready at the end.
I can see Jane being a grown-up Buffy, somehow. :)
Woohooo punaise, I would love to see that!
Just imaging it is fun….
Wouldn’t it be ironic if Rummy was shown the door for the one time in six years he showed some spine?
Is honest morality the new “extremism”?
Is adhering to honorable principles the new “fringe” behavior in America?
Is taking personal responsibility for your own actions now mocked as “partisan” behavior?
Perhaps so, considering what passes for the national corporate culture, and our national business ethic, as represented by Wall Street (and the national Chamber of Commerce) which has sold off, shut down, and moved the very foundations of our national economy off-shore and overseas to other countries for more than a decade now. All in the name of the mighty buck, all other national values and priorities be damned.
Hiding behind a label of “centrist” or “bipartisan” or “nonpartisan” or “moderate” or a “red-state representative” is a very, very convenient way of avoiding personal responsibility for one’s unprincipled, immoral, even downright unconscionable votes and actions in public office. What a sick culture we live in where support for instigating a violent, destructive invasion and occupation of a run-down, non-threatening foreign nation is in any way considered “moderate” behavior. Nevermind agreeing to bankrupt our national treasury to do so.
Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, Ken Salazar, Daniel Inouye, Mary Landrieu, Thomas Carper, Ben Nelson, Mark Pryor, and those who secretly side with them, are standing in the way of a better America. Period. We cannot let this blockade remain standing, because our future is being held hostage by these compromised incumbents.
This is about how to start making a better, more humane, more decent America. It is about improving the lives of everyday Americans, instead of idolizing corporate profit and destructive violence in the name of that corporate profit, above and to the exclusion of all else. That’s the choice those who represent us need to make: when the two do not go hand in hand, as is now obviously the case, where do our Senators and Representatives cast their votes? With the best interests of the people in whose government they serve in mind, or with the interests of the profits of the elite corporations who pay for their personal campaigns in mind?
I’ll take the moral, principled, responsible “fringe extremist” like Ned Lamont or Patrick Fitzgerald over the immoral, unprincipled, irresponsible “moderate centrist” like Ben Nelson until the cows come home, any day of the week. And every honest American should be able to do the same and to proudly and publicly stand shoulder to shoulder with such great Americans as Lamont and Fitzgerald, who are both striving to move our country forward against all odds.
Some data on the Ohio election.
My Republican mother has decided to vote for the Democrat for governor against Blackwell [whew!].
She didn’t think there were any issues with Secretary of State…ok more work to do there.
And on the local level, she said with exasperation “I’ll vote for any Democrat that can brush his own teeth.”
:) Yay for my Republican mommy! The heartland is moving.
l-jockey sez:
RGJoe could craft this flip-flop around his vaunted adherence to personal principles, always invoked when he needs cover for craven opportunism. Remember, his NEW best friends have little tolerance for wiggle on fetal rights, so RGJoe can now delve into his faith to find the answer, and that answer may be that he’s newly PRO-LIFE! That his NEW best friends love him for it is one of those happy coincidences that have furthered RGJoe’s ambition his whole life….
katymine @ 84
Just imaging it is fun….
Joe shouldn’t be around this race furlong.
Ed Teller @ 2:28
Thanks, but having seen Neocon Joe being incapable of maintaining the security of his own website, I’m totally opposed to him being anywhere near the Dept of Defense. I take national security very seriously, and he just doesn’t cut it.
Lamont needs to win in November, and his enemies — the Republicans, the Media, and the old fool whose swollen ego has allowed them to enter the innards of the Democratic party like viruses — need to lose.
That the party leaders in Washington are hedging their bets in case Lieberman wins is cowardice and is unacceptable. No one will trust the Democrats to do their job if they continue to behave like that. Ned’s a great candidate, he can win, and the Democrats need to commit themselves and win.
I’m glad you’ll continue to focus on this race. In particular, that will help counter the dirty tricks the Media are sure to come up with. “Computergate” was a surprise attack at the last minute. It’s much longer ’til November, time enough for such tactics to wither under scrutiny.
From TPM:
Lamont v. Lieberman is a carnival sideshow, a titilating and distracting spectacle. Rove is the carnival barker. So ignore the hoopla and keep moving on down the midway, folks. The main event is still to come, and it will be in places like Montana, Missouri, and Ohio. We’ve come too far to get side-tracked now.
Sounds more like Josh Marshall’s evil pixie/resume polishing alter ego do the talking talking.
The problem with both Josh Marshall and Kevin Drum is that they are both smart enough to know that the Republicans are throughly evil and the CW is crap. However like Bob Somerby over at the Daily Howler says they will knowingly print crap that they do not even begin to believe because they are too scared shittless or deep down craven to burn bridges to the NYT/WAPO editorial board bigtime by placing themselves too outside the CW.
Lieberman has been spouting Roves talking point for a decade now. If not decisively defeated, Lieberman will do untold damage to Democratic hopes in 2008 as a ZELL MILLER on steroids.
Marshall is smart enough to know this!!! Why does he feel the need to echo the MSM CW or do Karl’s work for him?? Once again I do not attribute this to a “raging moderate” political outlook. Marshall is too smart for that. Is it some of that same TNR psuedo-contrarianism masking the workings of a neo-con psyop or is it simply keeping all options open careerism???
Armando closes the circle a little tighter :
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..164041/007
Once Josh is back on Monday, I think I’ll write him for a list of “approved” campaigns to which I *should* pay attention.
In all candor though, a party full of Libermans, Schumers, Bidens, Salazars, Feinsteins and Clintons isn’t worth electing. If politicians are going to enact policies antithetical to humanity’s survival regardless of party affiliation, I’d rather face off against the ones who are relatively more honest about their depravity.
This says it all:
G.O.P. Deserts One of Its Own for Lieberman
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08…..ref=slogin
Ed*ard Teller 63 – I think you’ve got it – there must be something Joe wants (and face saving is understandable)… find it, offer it, see what you get…
OT – the Marine base, Camp Pendleton is really blowing some sh*t up today… I’m 20 miles north and don’t usually hear their exercises… wonder what they are gearing up for?
Redshift @ 81
… or those holding the opinions, especially in the face of the utter failure of their latest pet project.
Much unhappiness, this weekend, I imagine, in the Office of Special Plans in the Pentagon. Probably crafting some new “intelligence” about Iran today for Lord Cheney’s consumption on Monday (no intelligence briefings on the Lord’s Day, at least not for the Dictator-tot).
lisa, others here are more astute on this, but here’s why I count Ned’s meeting with Peres a good thing.
Joe’s trying to cloak himself in the Israeli flag is one thing (he always has) — but his trying to paint Ned and/or his supporters as ”anti-Semitic” is just crap. Though ”Israeli” and ”Jewish” are far from the same concept, this bogus shorthand is a political cliche beloved by the Rovians.
I’d a lot druther see Ned meeting and exchanging ideas with PERES than with any other ”name” in Israeli politics, certainly any of the Olmert/Sharon/Likud/Netanyahu/AI*AC crowd that’s just come close to undoing that country’s security (and may in fact have finished the job, whether visibly yet or not). This meeting of reasonable non-wingnuts should appeal greatly to both Jewish and gentile Nutmeggers hungry for some adult supervision in foreign policy for a change.
”Ned-meets-with-Peres” says:
– Peres recognizes Ned as a potential ally, or at least a credible voice of reason, in the Senate-to-be.
– Ned is gaining foreign-policy chops and cred (what OTHER challenger has the once-and-possibly-future Israeli PM asked to meet?).
– Both parties are saying to Joe: siddown and shuddup, loser.
Probably in the time it’s taken me to type this, you’ve read much better answers to your question, but this is mine.
(Just hit Refresh before posting this — gawwwwd, I’m slowwwwww.)
OldCoastie #95:
I have no idea.
Rummy must think they need more training.
A redeployment might be in their future.
No one really knows, though.
I’m a little late to the party, but I agree with everything Jane said, and for anyone who thinks I should write about things that are not at the forefront of the fight to make the Democratic Party a progressive party, I would add #11. Fuck you.
hear, hear Jane…
HEAR, HEAR…
Lieberman is not going away, just like National Security didn’t go away in ‘02. Democrats need to turn this battle into a strength. Otherwise, they are in for a long 2 months.
Here is a perfect opportunity to show some spine and leadership, and Democrats continue to cower away…and people wonder why Republicans buy into the weak Democrat meme…
For goodness sake, be men and women for once and act like politicians who want to win instead of like people who just want to get along.
Pow wow @ 86 –
Yes, yes, and yes. That’s why we have primary elections. Once upon a time, when we had political parties, primaries were important. (Mind you, that was also when I was a registered Republican.) Ned Lamont and the 50 State Strategy are showing once again how they can be important.
And all of the list of Senators you’ve highlighted should start thinking very carefully whether their “centerist” rhetoric and action really reflect what their constituents (and not campaign contributors) really want.
al-Scooter… from the size of the booms, they are using some pretty heavy artillary today… you may well be right.
Pachacutec @ 98
ditto and well-said!
Pach has been rather timid lately. :~)
Rummy being shown the door now is no cause for celebration: it means they want him out of the say so they can go into (or nuke) Iran. Already we’re getting Yellowcake 2.0.
This is not good.
Pachacutec @ 98
Now Pachacutec tell us what you really feel…
Well said, Jane; glad you’re finally getting off the fence on this race, lol. BTW, New Yorkers, don’t fergit our favorite DLCer Hilary Clinton has a progressive challenger (Jon Tasini) in the September 12th primary. How cool would it be if he took a respectable chunk outa her, seemingly out of nowhere? There’s absolutely nuthin’ on the radar for the primary – if every progressive got his ass to the polls, maybe Hil could be the one waking up with a horse’s head in her bed.
OldCoastie, I sincerely hope I’m wrong (from ~ 45 miles north of Pendleton).
windje @ 16
Bingo, we have a winner….and the DLC will slap who could have anticipated the levees breaking…
windje gets it…
I am afraid putting Lieberman on the Supreme Court would mean a 6-3 Republican majority on many issues. On some, he already agrees with them; and on others, he would go along with their position in order to make them like him. I would not trust him with that kind of power.
katymine @ 106
I don’t know why some people find it so fucking hard to understand. I’ve repeated myself often, but once again: my loyalty is to the progressive movement before the Democratic Party. The later is my instrument to propel the former. I’ve never been ambiguous about this since any of the time of my writing at FDL.
al-Scooter, I hope so too… I’m hopin’ that they just don’t usually blow up the north end of Pendleton and THAT is why the sound of it is so surprising…
A better deal for Joe:
The deal is, there is no deal. We going to ruin you Joe so stop it now or lose your image and reputation. We’re going to take the gloves off and make an example out of you. Some folks will enjoy doing it.
If Joe thinks there’s a deal, he’ll hold out for a better one. The man is 64 years old and educated. No reason to pretend he doesn’t understand what’s happening to him.
Ed*ard Teller @ 63
op99 @ 107
Jane Harman’s who I want HillDog to see in her mirror the morning after her September primary. As hard as we can hit her, I say. Any dent in that invincible armor she’s swathed in is good news, I say. Jonathan’s got my support.
OldCoastie: I don’t suppose a citizen would learn what is going on at Camp Pendleton but if you do, let me know. My nephew will be home this weekend after graduating from basic training (Marines). Home for 10 days & then to Camp Pendleton. Shit, shit, shit.
if God-forbid, should Joe win, Lieberman would gleefully accept a George Bush Cabinet position of Secretary of Toilet-Cleaning and let the GOP Governor of CT appoint an openly GOP Senator replacement…
For any LoTR fans out there, I just got a wierd vision of Sen. Lieberman as Saruman. Who is Sauron? Guessing Rove at this point.
“Have met v. nice guy via palantir.” (Saruman’s very secret diary)
Pachacutec, I guess my snark was not viewable. Since the accession of BushCo…. my language has become peppered with lots of FU and just plan FUCK.
That was a *g* and 1000% agreement!
Yep…. #11 should be FUCK YOU
I suppose Joe could take the SecDef position right now if offered, resign the seat, but continue his quest for the Senate. Alternatively, Governor Jodi could replace him in the Senate now, and ask Alan to get off the ballot for the newly appointed “incumbent.” But who would that be? And would Alan do the Gov’s bidding? He hasn’t yet….
ironranger – 114, I used to have a better sense of what was happening when we had both El Toro and the Marine air station (helicopters) flying in this area, but both are gone now… once in awhile, they will put out a public notice if they are going to be really loud and annoying… sorry – it may be normal exercises but just not in a typical area of the base (that is one huge base in terms of area)
Hello, I must be going.
Here’s a new emptywheel post relating, after a fashion, to upthread concerns re: the current SECDEF’s standing:
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c…..ow_di.html
Ciao.
Good post, Jane! I’m energized to read that you all are unequivocally staying on the case.
I’m disgusted by what the guest blogger chimed in with over at Josh Marshall’s site. I have great respect for Josh Marshall and I am extremely disappointed in what I’m reading over there at this time. I agree completely with what Armando and Atrios wrote in regards to the guest blogger.
pow wow at 86
Respect.
I see all the great links readers post falling under #10. The fact that FDL allows readers to comment is great. Been to a number of Right Wing sites where the comment sections are conveniently shut off/not available. I especially like Christy’s morning threads when she asks the plain, but highly important question, “What is everyone else reading?”
Jonathan Tasini is so far out ahead (in terms of progressiveness) of Hillary it’s embarrassing. At least it should be to Clinton and the Democratic party. I’m thinking Iraq war and the DLC here.
Katymine, I understood you. I just took your good humor as an opportunity to
rant onrevise and extend my remarks.Ditto YAY FOR EGY’S REPUBLICAN MAMMY!
Old Coastie: thanks…I’m just going to have to get used to being freaked-out worried about this kid.
How much money does TPM raise for candidates?
I thought so.
ironranger – the good news is if they are blowing lots o’ sh*t up on Pendleton, then they are just having “fun”… and are NOT overseas…
Ed*ard Teller @ 63
It might be a good way to really screw Joe. If he accepts a deal like that the goopers would scream left wing liberal and filibuster while daring us to use the nuclear option. I bet even with a majority the Dems will be too weak to do it.
Pach
Will you be raising any money for Bob Casey this fall?
Just kidding *g*
there’s an old Arabic saying that applies to the TPM kerfuffle — “The dogs bark but the caravan moves on …”
Shit, so we’re in a fucking world now where Rummy isn’t hawkish enough. Because he’s gotten his feelings hurt in Iraq. Yeah, long knives.
neurophius @ 132
No bear-baiting!
I didn’t read all of the comments, so this might have been covered. I see that some posters here think that Josh Marshall still supports Leiberman. He doesn’t. After Leiberman made the statement about Lamont’s election being encouraging to the terrorists Josh Marshall literally posted, “fuck him”.
Libermann is now a shibboleth among democrats. Please do not for a minute let this matter drop.
I regret that progressives haven’t yet been able to get through to the MSM that this is not about Joe’s prowar stance, but about his insulting, idiotic claim that anyone who criticizes Bush puts the nation at risk. How can there be room in any political party for someone who finds it seditious to criticize the head of the opposing party? Give us a break!!
egregious @ 87
And thus, one voter at a time, do we see: The pendulum has already begun to swing the other way?
My own opinion is somewhere in between. This isn’t the be-all and end-all of progressive politics, but it’s also way more important than “Who cares?”. It’s important for the reasons Jane wrote about, plus it’s a great example of how people-powered politics can still work in this country. I want Lamont to succeed for that reason alone.
As for Casey, I was just reminded of this by talking to my father this afternoon. We collected information about Casey in entirely different ways. I live in the Pacific NW, and I scoured the Internet and combined that with my memories about PA politics. He did it by living in PA, talking to his neighbors, and reading the paper (he doesn’t even use a computer). Our conclusion was nevertheless the same – if there’s a prominent PA politician capable of losing that race, it’s Casey. He’s a train wreck in latent form – that’s one of the reasons I was so adamant about Chuck Pennaccio. Lamont has a real chance to make a change in politics, even if the Democrats don’t win the Senate this time around. Casey’s a Republican-lite whose main attribute appears to be that he’ll be supportive of Chuck Schumer and anyone else in the Democratic establishment who helps him.
I thought we were in agreement Pachacutec… but just wanted to be sure….. But also glad you were holding yourself back there….
Of course you should of see look on my kids faces when they come running out of their bedrooms when they first heard their Mom’s colorful language that was thrown at the liars on the TeeVee … @#$%$#@%$#@#
Why is it that so many just do NOT see why it is so important to throw RGJoe to the curb?
Why do they do not see that the Faux Terror spin was all about RGJoe?
Why is it purge vs seeing Democracy in Action?
I do not care where you live, the Lieberman issue is soooo important!
Pachacutec @ 126
haven’t seen you need an excuse in the past…. *g*
CNN doing “makaka”
The Lamont-Lieberman race is like an extended civics lesson in how our system really works, and doesn’t. It highlights the possibilities of voters taking back the system and the obstacles that still confront them. Even with an attractive, refreshing candidate who actually reflects his constituents’ views, it is very much an uphill fight. In many ways, there is only one party in this country and it is made up of incumbents. Over the years, Lieberman the incumbent has come to represent his constituents and his nominal party less and less and himself more and more. He has stabbed the Democrats in the back and given cover to even the most egregious of Republican excesses time and time again. And yet the liberal Barbara Boxer stumped for him. So did Bill Clinton. DINOs and Establishment Democrats like Hillary, Schumer, and Biden looked upon him as one of their own. Labor unions that really should know better endorsed him as did the national offices of “liberal” groups like NARAL and PP. What’s the attraction? Incumbency. Business as usual. The view that in a democracy voters should shut up and do what they are told.
The Lamont candidacy has been a breath of fresh air and been ably covered and supported here. But it shows just how hard it is in our broken system for even the best candidates to overcome the inertia of the “incumbency trumps all” mentality. Just think for one moment what the reaction of Lieberman would have been if Lamont had declared an independent bid if he had lost the primary and compare that to the sanctimonious drivel coming from the “You can’t do this to me, I’m an incumbent” Lieberman camp. Now Lieberman has become the de facto Republican candidate garnering a pat on the back from the likes of Cheney and Rove. What is playing out in Connecticut is more than just another campaign. It is a test case as to whether ideas or incumbency are what matter most.
OT – the Marine base, Camp Pendleton is really blowing some sh*t up today… I’m 20 miles north and don’t usually hear their exercises… wonder what they are gearing up for?
Oh, ain’t that just James P. Dandy, OC!
if there’s a prominent PA politician capable of losing that race, it’s Casey. He’s a train wreck in latent form
with apologies to the Grateful Dead:
Check out the Colbert-Neil Young interview C&L has up now. Fun.
Ed*ard Teller @ 3:10 pm (#142) – According to a Rasmussen poll Taylor Marsh quoted today, Allen’s support has dropped below 50%. Apparently, to answer a question Rob Courdray asked on TDS the other night, in Virginia being a racist isn’t such a good thing.
al-Scooter @ 99
STANDING O, al-Scoots!
Old Coastie: My brain tells me it’s pointless to worry until you have something to worry about, but the heart wins out. I never, ever thought after Vietnam the US would make that kind of mistake again. I never imagined any administration not only would but 100 times worse.
So, does anybody know what became of the “Lieberman” resolution that was supposed to come before the DNC today? The Resolutions Committee report from the dias did not include a reading of all the resolutions (just some). Others, called “commemorative” or somesuch were summarized.
Any word from Chicago?
For me it is real simple. If I didn’t oppose the candidate who is endorsed by G. Gordon Liddy, then I have no business calling myself a liberal or a Democrat.
Great post Jane. Kick thier ass’ to the curb with Joe and the rest of the garbage.
What I love about FDL is that the people who fuel the action here passionately believe in their views. They don’t just sit back and nay-say, they jump in, provide inspiration and opportunity for people like me to take action.
I have little time or energy for people who talk big and walk small.
Catching up on the news.
Jane writes:
Tell me tough women aren’t waay hot. If I was in a knife fight some time, this is a person I’d want on my side.
You gave me my first laugh of the day….thank you! Yes, it makes me sick, too.
I say grind up the little mole and spit him out. Can’t the Dems even be tough with one of their own was has BETRAYED the party? He is a TRAITOR. Or is it something else that is keeping the Dems from supporting Ned? Are they scared of him? Are they jealous of him and his message. I don’t buy this crap about, ‘Oh, Joe is a good guy….’ Salazar supports Mole Joe and he’s only been in the Senate since 2005. How can you become such a good friend of his in that short of a time. Something just doesn’t smell right.
IMHO, Ned Lamont is Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington. He has the looks, the manners, the intelligence, the ability to listen…he’s a smart GENTLEMAN….and how long has it been since America has seen one of those in DC? I don’t see why they aren’t riding HIS coattails.
Everytime I hear him, I get goosebumps…he is SINCERE. He appears to truly care about our nation. I haven’t been this impressed with a candidate since….well since maybe ever.
Joe, the pug mole, cares about himself. Period…his running as an independent pug proves it. He supports a war that is just like Vietnam.
IOW: Ned, GOOD. Joe, Bad….very very bad….whiney, pouty, greedy, selfish, self-absorded, stubborn, uncompromising, lying warmongering bud of the turd blossom. And those do not end up on the Supreme Court.
I’d want those poodles on my side, too.
with Joe, we need a take-no-prig’s-honors approach.
“Driving that train…” Saw these guys sing that tune way back in the day at the Fillmore West. Man, that was a time. So much progressive electricity in the air. And we were gonna change the world. Think we’ll ever see the like again? “It’s a long way to Tipperary”. And it’s a long, long way from the Fillmore to Crawford.
OfT, via Pam’s House Blend. Don’t tell me marriage is the same as a domestic partnership!
http://www.newsday.com/news/lo…..-headlines
Ned Lamont has a future as a leader ahead of him.
Joe Lieberman has a future of a lobbyist ahead of him.
ironranger 149 – hopefully, the boy has some sort of training that take a long damn time… let’s see if we can get them out of there, the sooner the better…
Even later to the party than Pach . . .
Another reason I have appreciated the focus on Connecticut – beyond the ten listed above – is the way in which FDL has brought the ins and outs of political campaigning to the surface. For those who have never worked on one, it gives folks an idea of the hundreds of ways in which to get behind a candidate in a very tangible fashion. It also inspired folks who don’t live in CT to get more involved closer to home with races that matter to them.
Got a phone? You too can help with get-out-the-vote efforts.
Got a flair for writing? You too can help frame the debate, with letters to the editors.
Got a talent for research on the web? You too can help fact-check and otherwise hold candidates and the media accountable for their words.
Got experience with building homecoming floats in high school? Have we got a job for you . . .
Thanks Jane, and keep it up!
“It’s a long way to Tipperary”. And it’s a long, long way from the Fillmore to Crawford.
What we’ve lived to see …
This choice statement is buried on page fifteen (PDF) of Anthony H. Cordesman’s paper – due out this week – “Preliminary “Lessons” of the Israeli-Hezbollah War”
“One key point that should be mentioned more in passing than as a lesson, although it may be a warning about conspiracy theories, is that no serving Israeli official, intelligence officer, or other military officer felt that the Hezbollah acted under the direction of Iran or Syria.”
Cordesman has just returned from spending the past month and a half with high-level officers of the Israeli Defense Forces.
So who, exactly, said the following?
If you guessed Joe Lieberman you are correct!
This, in a nutshell, is why we Lamont supporters will work our butts off to boot his sorry ass out of the senate, once and for all.
Jane, I am with you 100%!!
OKkiddo, Fillmore, Avalon, Chateau Liberte, etc., etc., etc. It’s hard to even explain it to anyone. Wild.
What does that mean, ET?
Sometimes the lights all shinin on me;
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip its been.
Old Coastie: worst of all, he is infantry. He’s a really bright kid too, he was reading newspapers at 3.
she’s got rings on her fingers
and bells on her toes
Prayers for iron-nephew still rollin’.
Please, please keep covering the Lamont race. I think it is enormously important for exactly the same reasons you do. The last poll numbers did look scarey to me, despite Chris’s reassuring read of them at MyDD, so any reporting or analysis of polls or what the Lamont campaign’ s strategy for moving these numbers in the general election is would be very much appreciated.
The more Lamont coverage the better, for me.
Bobbles
katymine @ 84
Just imaging it is fun….
Hey, watch it! Only if it’s made out of papier mache. Otherwise, the horse people here at the lake are going to have something to say about it. *g* As to why Ned would meet with Peres, consider this: if the Olmert government falls, Bibi is going to make a try for regaining the PM slot. HoJo lo-o-o-ves Bibi. But Peres is Labor, not Likud. He might be happier with Lamont than with Lieberman. And if that’s not enough, consider this:
If Peres approves of Ned, he may be able to convince those PACs to stop supporting Joe. And if nothing else, it couldn’t hurt. By the way, ccmask, your link didn’t work for me. Maybe this one will. http://www.newsday.com/news/lo…..9222.story
ironranger – sometimes smart kids get pulled for different duties in critical specialties… a specialty of “cannon fodder” isn’t the best right now… is he really committed to shooting at things? or is he seeing other opportunities as possible?
Nobody but Lieberman want’s to talk about Lieberman but…
3. I can only speak for myself but I got into covering this race because the idea that the Gang of 14 would use its power to confirm another Alito should a SCOTUS vacancy occur in the next two years was intolerable.
nuff said!
Jane biofueled blog.
oh, ironranger, that breaks my heart.
Did C-SPAN cover the Michael Brown confirmation hearings which Lieberman chaired? Is there video of Joe expressing his approval of Brown? If there is video, it should be checked for some great idiocy on the part of Lieberman. Then an ad using it should run on every TV station in CT from Katrina day until the election.
Don’t please, forget, the ‘Family Dog’, down by Playland. And the Carousel Ballroom.
Oh, and this is something I love from the latest Rolling Stone issue.
http://www.rollingstone.com/po…..democrat/1
In referring to Holy Joe:
But read the whole thing. It’s great.
I love the coverage of the Lamont race. It’s got it all!
Altruism vs to-mine-own-self-be-truism.
Traditional Democratic values vs the DLC.
Representative democracy vs representative corporatocracy.
It really comes down to the same fight that resulted in the Declaration of Independence: We the people are revolting against creeping aristocracy, and Joe Lieberman is the poster child of the New Aristocrats, the people who accrue and deploy power on the basis of cronyism and unearned privilege.
If Joe had respected the result of the primary vote, I’d have no problem with him getting some consolation prize of a job — though certainly not a Supreme Court appointment bleah. But because he said “fku” to the voters, the only appropriate consequence for Joe is his political death.
“For the sake of our state, our country and my party, I cannot and will not let that result stand” –Joe Lieberman
“For the sake of my, myself, and Joe Lieberman, I cannot and will not let that result stand. State, country and party be damned.” –Joe Lieberman?
This is like “The Word” on the Colbert Report, where the right side of the screen tells you what he is really thinking.
me, myself and Joe Lieberman
errr, rhetorical horse’s head. just horsing around.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 177
Forget? What? Hahaaaa.
Did you hear about the guy who bought a small bldg here in the FiDi and it turned out to contain all the original posters of the era in some vault? I’m forgetting the web site….
in the Washington DC world of the growing unitary Executive, corporate America is striving for a unitary Legislature — Joe Lieberman fits right in.
OldCoastie & all the other good souls here: You can believe the fam will be doing lots & lots of talking to the boy when he is home. He always has marched to his own little drummer so the whole fam wondered how he would do in basics, such as following orders & keeping his mouth shut. So hopefully that will be an advantage for him somehow.
Prayers for all of them.
*ilson46201 @ 183
Eunuchary Legislature
here it is: http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/
I support this and admire Jane’s tenacity. I will help as I am able.
bookwoman – thanks for the Rolling Stone link – a very good article!
lotus,
It was a commonplace in American coverage of the war in Lebanon that it was being orchestrated by Iran and Syria. Cordesman is saying that the Israeli military never seriously believed this.
On a related topic:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/752201.html
You really have to wonder how dimwitted the Israeli political leadership is. After having had their bacon saved by a timely ceasefire, they are busily trying to undermine it. Again if Hezbollah had done something dumb like this, it would be smeared all over the headlines that they were restarting the war, couldn’t be trusted, and didn’t want peace.
When I think of the posters I threw away. And the KYA ticket stubs for the Beatles concert at the “Stick”… And the pictures of Sproul I took when ‘It’ was happening. And the pix of George Harrison strolling through Golden Gate Park. Makes me grumpy at myself.
ironranger – good luck… you probably won’t be able to tell him much if he’s just out of boot camp, but if he didn’t find crawling through the mud with people yelling at him all that attractive, he might be rethinking his choices about his specialty…
It was a commonplace in American coverage of the war in Lebanon that it was being orchestrated by Iran and Syria. Cordesman is saying that the Israeli military never seriously believed this.
Wull, yeah, Hugh.
But now I see that I phrased my question poorly. Obviously, what I should have asked is: “What does that meta-mean?”
(No offense to any wizard/pastry chef of our acquaintance.)
new thread upstairs
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..verturned/
Oklahoma kiddo @ 191
I’ve still got two hand-size Peter Max poster-lets (pink/green & blue/gold) announcing the Easter Afternoon 1967 “BE-IN IN CENTRAL PARK” … around here … some … where . . .
Hm. I think this discussion is taking a weird turn.
I agree with Jane on every point, the CT-Sen race is absolutely critical to the political situation of the entire country and warrants a great deal of attention on the blogs and in the media. But I’m a little freaked out by some of the hostility I’m seeing today about a point of view that I think is entirely legitimate. I just came from dKos, where Armando is saying not only that we should keep a high level of focus on CT-Sen, but also that anyone who think’s it’s too much should STFU. Now I come over to FDL and see that very same acronym, Pach telling people to fuck you, and various others claiming that Those Who Think And Say The Bad Idea are evil puppets of Karl Rove.
I really don’t see why so many people are flipping their lids about a warning against a problem that we obviously want to avoid. There is an appropriate discussion to be had about how we focus our energies and resources in this year’s elections. A Lamont victory would be thrilling. But a Lamont victory accompanied by dozens and dozens of Republican victories would, well, it would really suck.
Of course, the scenario we want is a Lamont victory along with dozens and dozens of other Democratic victories, resulting in majorities in both houses. And yes, I think the human attention span and the resources available to the party, the blogosphere and the grassroots are enough to focus on the Big Symbolic Race in CT as well as all of the other important races around the country, if we remember to maintain that focus, and it’s not like some kind of law of nature that human beings will do that. So I don’t see why people who remind us to do exactly that are being talked about like heretics to be burned at the nearest stake. As a matter of fact, I think that’s pretty fucking bizarre. Am I going to be verbally strung up at the gallows for saying so, too?
lotus @ 193
I don’t know, for sure, lotus. Supposedly Israeli politicians listen more closely to intel people than do our politicians. Here’s the entire section of his article which contains the intel assessment of Hezbollah relations with Iran and Syria:
“Iran, Syria, and the Hezbollah One key point that should be mentioned more in passing than as a lesson, although it may be a warning about conspiracy theories, is that no serving Israeli official, intelligence officer, or other military officer felt that the Hezbollah acted under the direction of Iran or Syria. It was clear that Iran and Syria conducted a massive build-up of the Hezbollah’s arms over a period of more than half a decade, that Iranian 747s routinely offloaded arms in Syrian airports, and that Syria provided trucks and shipped in arms and armed vehicles through the north and across the Bekaa. Iran did have advisors—evidently from the Al Quds force present with the Hezbollah—and some of their documents were captured, although Syrian advisors evidently were not present. The issue of who was using whom, however, was answered by saying all sides—the Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria—were perfectly happy to use each other. Israelis felt Nasrallah had initiated the Sheeba farms raid on his own and that Iran and Syria were forced to support him once Israel massively escalated. Israeli officials did not endorse the theory that Iran forced the Hezbollah to act to distract attention from its nuclear efforts. This does not mean that Iran and Syria had no influence or control. Syria could certainly have halted supply at any time. Iran set up a rocket and missile targeting and control center for the Hezbollah and may well have retained control over the Zelzal in any effort to preserve an eventual nuclear option or limited Israeli retaliation. The nature of meetings between commanders and officials from all three sides was described as uncertain, as was the exact role of the Hezbollah-Iranian-Syrian intelligence center that began to operate in Damascus during the war. “
Okay, folks — the (scheduled, at least) talking head list for tomorrow:
ABC’s “This Week”: Sen. Kerry; British Home Secretary John Reid; director Spike Lee
CBS’ “Face the Nation”: Sen. Lieberman (D-Conn.) [cough…] and journalist Jim VandeHei
NBC’s “Meet the Press”: Sen. McCain; journalist John Harwood, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, and Dr. Vali Nasr
Hmmm… should be interesting!
I want to be in a BE-IN. Again. Just once more.
Applause for Jane.
I don’t know why TPTB think you can only concentrate on one race at a time. I can, and do, support multiple candidates. But I agree that Ned is the linchpin for us.
I don’t want to see RGJoe in ANY position of authority. I want him defeated utterly, beyond all doubt and, hopefully, for all time.
Buckeye Hamburger — did you perchance happen to notice the thread before this one? a thread about a candidate on Ohio, the Buckeye State? dont be so paranoid! if you want Ned 24×7, there’s the LamontBlog. FDL is a multi-purpose blog — the Ned campaign serves a variety of purposes but it aint the only topic here…
Buckeye Hamburger @ 196
Nice post. I brought up some concern last night be for me, in hindsight it’s Rovian Paranoia. I’d hate to wake up Nov 8th thinking that motherfu*ker Rove has done it again. Broadening the focus is what I was suggesting thinking about. Nothing more.
Buckeye, I think the point is we’re weary of being told to stop talking about Ned and Joe. And to those people, Jane is saying – forget it, for all the above reasons.
Obviously, this blog is addressing a whole lot of things in parallel. Most people here are very passionate about these subjects and are perfectly capable of firing on all cylinders. So I’m not sure we are working at cross-purposes.
Lotus, have ya figuered all that stuff out yet? Cause I’m meta, and I haven’t.
I could use another Summer of L-o-v-e.
THANKS, ET.
ME TOO, dang it, OK kiddo! To repeat myself, I always admired our timing on this earth … until Chimpy.
Which stuff, meta? (But honestly, I ain’t figgered out squat.)
EPU’d, I know, but it belongs on this thread:
The Latest Q Poll & How Lamont Might Win
I don’t know that I agree with everything it says. YMMV.
lotus @
207
Oh, you know, all that Lebanon stuff?
Sorry, I’m just in a silly mood for some reason. Guess I need to lighten up!!
Jane!!!!!!! I know I am late again, but:
Huzzah! Huzzah!
I am so glad you wrote this — as LHP says, “STAY FOCUSED.”
For some, the goal is to elect any democratic (or even faux-Democratic) candidate regardless of their politics. For me, the goal is to elect Democrats who are also Progressives.
Josh can send whatever money he wants and spend whatever time he wants on his blog regarding the elections he lists. He should shut up abouut what other people choose to do (unless he is inviting me to remotely run the content of his effing blog). Me, I am staying here and staying with Jane.
IMM PREDICTS that TPM will spend more time on the Lamont race than the other races combined. Which will = Hypocrite.
Anyone want “base points?”
Oh, Lebanon — why shore — piece o’ cake.
Next Question?
meta @ 205
Why isn’t every summer a summer of L-O-V-E?
Thread Theorist @
151
Amen. That’s exactly what I thought too.
(lightin’ ‘em as fast as a flowah can)
‘Ere, OK kiddo!
‘Ere, meta!
‘Ere, imm!
*COUGH*
oooey.
why is this place redolent with strawberry-vanilla room deodorizer?
“In the mean time, there are plenty of other blogs.”
This is what I cannot understand. Do these freaks not know how to access other blogs? How to use the “internets?” I am not interested in a few articles at this blog. Do I whine and complain? Of course not. I just read the ones that interest me, and ignore the rest.
Grow up, you babies.
Oh, God, I feel a YouTube coming on.
Lotus, inagoddadavita.
Ahbedawg, here I was expecting Teddy and Bong, and up pops *ilson!
Yo, bro — y’off duty yet?
Why *ilson, just one glass with dinner.
Oh, God, I feel a YouTube coming on.
Lotus, inagoddadavita.
uh-huuuuuhhhhhh
a properly maintained Foucaultian PanOpticon never gives the appearance of not observing …
*ilson46201 @
201
Did you chance perchance notice that I had about five comments on the Wulsin thread, and that Dr. W. answered one of my questions?
Now could you explain why in the world you’re calling me paranoid? Did you see me criticizing FDL in any form? Just this past week, the Blue America series at FDL has covered two Ohio candidates that are very important to me, Dr. Wulsin and Sherrod Brown. So I’m not worried that FDL will pay too little attention to other races.
Everyone claims to agree that that’s a legitimate concern, but nevertheless I have seen expressions of rage here and elsewhere that strike me as maybe paranoid, at any rate very weird. If someone looking at FDL, or other lefty blog sites, were to be overwhelmed by the sheer volume of CT-Sen coverage, and were to voice concern that other races are getting too little attention, I’d say it’s only human. If the response were to say, “Yes, you’re right, but look at this, we are paying attention to other important matters, so don’t worry,” (which you evidently thought you had to say to me), then I would understand. But instead, the response has been that such a person is the loathsome and malodorous lovechild of Karl Rove and Joe Lieberman on a bad hair day, and that is a little freaky.
Did someone say In-A-Gadda-Da-Vita?
Bonus Dick Clark!
ummm … I did notice the way your hair was combed !
(curtsies to the resident Foucaultian PanOpticon — [thanking jeebus for cut&paste, as she sinks low … and recalling that she useta be able to get up from there, too])
Buckeye Hamburger @196
I agree. Hostility needs to be refocused into sane actions to convince people that Lamont is who they want to represent them. Hostility drives voters to the other guy. So many of us want our country back, but angry words can be used against Lamont. There needs to be a reaching out to non-Lamont voters to convince them to support him. Voters like comfort, that’s why they reelect incumbents so much of the time.
Lotus, I heart Foucault — I actually make my students read the first chapter of Discipline and Punish every year.
Hilda says:
“Hostility drives voters to the other guy. “
Maybe that is true. BUT what kind of a country is THAT? Where a citizen votes for someone NOT based on what they stand for, but how bloggers, and others, act?
GROW UP, AMERICA!
OOOO, remember doing the Skate to In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida?
Magic!
immanentize @ 228
Haven’t read that, imm — what’s he say there?
before the Primary, there were Lieberman-inspired “concern trolls” that would pop in here and sorrowfully announce that hithertofore they had been Lamont voters but the awful hateful language in here convinced them to support that reasonable Senator Joe!
I played some bass when I was a youngen and the first line I learned was IAGDV:
Bum bum, bada ba Bum
Bum Bum Bum (repeat)
Oh darlin’ come with me-e-ee, as I cross this la-a-and.
Joshua Micah Marshall has, through his refusal to report — let alone comment — on the Lamont-Loserman contest, rendered himself inconsequential; his latest directive to avoid the matter altogether places him squarely in the Emmanual-Schummer camp. Move on to more important contests?! What could be more important than the rebirth of the real Democratic Party? His is the very type of thinking that has brought us to the current one (totalitarian) party state we are fighting to topple. Pay no attention, nothing to see here, look at the shiny thing, look at the shiny thing!
There needs to be a reaching out to non-Lamont voters to convince them to support him. Voters like comfort, that’s why they reelect incumbents so much of the time.
I know you’re right, Hilda — but isn’t just amazing that anyone listening to Joe and Ned would pick JOE as the “comforting” one?
Wow. Hard to grasp that one.
Shell @ 229
The object is to win based on your merits and values. Like it or not, Americans are really in the center. It’s how you translate your anger into action that doesn’t alienate voters.
Bum bum, bada ba Bum
Bum Bum Bum (repeat)
Oh darlin’ come with me-e-ee, as I cross this la-a-and.
I think it’s in our molecules now, imm . . .
TPM has indeed come out against Whiny Joe forcefully — a guest poster there this weekend just feels theres been too much focus on that one race in other blogs — Joshua Micah Marshall’s OK !
Lotus,
It is the first chapter of the book in which he discusses the psychological basis of the panopticon. His basic theory is that we have moved from punishing the body to punishing the mind. The chapter includes an amazing recounting of the gruesome death of Damien, the French Regicide (tortured, drawn and quartered).
Students love it!!!
His basic theory is that we have moved from punishing the body to punishing the mind.
Mostly the fact nowadays, I’d say. Mostly . . .
Double Damn Straight, Jane!!
Give’m Bloody ‘ell!
Were with you in real time and with real money.
Screw Chuckles the Clown and his Fawlty Towers theory. Al D’Amato was right about one thing –
Chuck is a putz!!!
NYT, MSM — there all mad as billy goats ’cause they are essentially irrelevant on the war, and now politics!!!
the death penalty just aint what it used to be . . .
*ilson46201 @ 216
Humm…does that really work?
*ilson46201 @ 242
Too true.
lotus @ 235
My thought is that voters are like everybody else — stressed with their lives and busy. They choose the guy they know, even if they don’t like everything he does. That’s why it’s so hard to defeat incumbents. What surprises me the most is that a large percentage of people disagree with Bush’s War, and that alone should distance voters from Liberman.
“If we win here we will win everywhere.The world is a fine place and worth fighting for
and I hate very much leaving it.”
Ernest Hemingway~For Whom the Bell Tolls
*ilson46201 @238 — he may not have written it, but he posted it, under his byline, at the top of his blog, without comment. If that’s not support for, and approval of the commenter’s remarks I can’t imagine what more you could want.
nowadays folk hear about in the olden days they put prisoners up in stocks for “public ridicule” — it was really bad and often a death sentence. The public was encouraged to physically beat up the incapacitated prisoners, to throw heavy objects like rocks on them, etc. Prisoners died in the stocks … it was used particularly for those convicted of buggery, sodomy and other infamous crimes against nature …
Oh…and long live Iron Butterfly! I used to play those guys on my Ludwigs and Zildjians all the way around.
Agreed, Hilda.
Well, I think I’ll rest this machine a bit and do some handheld reading as a novelty.
I enjoyed everybody’s company so much today — thanks, alla y’all.
fran @ 246
Fran, perhaps Joe should read that novel, or if he prefers poetry, Donne:
Americans are in the center? What is that? You are too young to know that the supposed “center” is pretty far right.
And we won’t get any more LEFT by namby-pambying around.
It stuns me that LAMONT is considered a LEFTY by anyone. Of course, the GOP leaders try to TELL you he is. But who actually believes them????? Are Americans THAT dumb?
*ilson46201 @248 — the stocks, particularly in the Puritian colonies, was also used to punish non-attendance at approved places of worship, adultery, drinking, smoking, swearing and other “status” crimes. This is why the 1st Amendment is so clearly and forcefully written.
Wow, I fell into a really big timewarp, there imm. Iron Butterfly, then Moody Blues, then Animals, Quicksilver, Janis @ Monterey.
That was great.
Did I miss anything?
meta — TONS! LOL
Nite, Lotus. I’ve got to do some work, too.
flashbacks are figments of your imagination …
fran…5:15pm
Yes. And what “Tom Joad” said in the “Grapes of Wrath”: “I’ll be aroun’ in the dark. I’ll be everywhere-wherever you look. Wherever there is a fight so hungry people can eat, I’ll be there”.
egregious @ 87
Sidney Blumenthal at TPM Cafe
Shell @ 252,
How can most Americans be to the far right when the majority opposes the Iraq War and has given Bush such a huge disapproval rating? You have passion for your beliefs. How will you direct that to encourage people to support Lamont?
Hooray for you (and us)!
*ilson46201 @ 257
Is this what’s referred to as quasi-solipsistic?
Egregious. Hooray for you for changing her mind.
Hey — this is a very good point we need to make and understand –
The bullshit from TPM was NOT Josh, but was a guest poster (reader DK).
I hereby apologize to Josh for ascribing those words to him.
Sorry, Man!
Hilda –
Just watch — most Americans are against the war because they finally see how it is affecting THEM. No health insurance, no jobs, etc etc etc. Heaven forbid they should be passionate about something that doesn’t affect them PERSONALLY. Me? The war doesn’t affect me PERSONALLY at all. I have my income, doesn’t matter. I have health insurance — what do I care what everyone else has?
I worked for an HMO years ago. When I saw what was going on, I tried to warn Americans. Did they care? Nope. “I have mine — who cares about the others.” New Orleans? I know no one who lives/lived there — why should *I* care?
I am trying to say that Americans need to CARE about things that do not affect them PERSONALLY. Only THEN will they stop being right-wingers.
pow wow @ 2:39…
What an eloquent burst of straight talk on how far the once-respectable term “moderate” has fallen in this insane day and age. Right on!
Shell,
I know many good people who have reached out to others in my community, and even internationally, who gain nothing really for it except knowing that they made a difference in someone’s life. I try to do that as well.
Americans are a generous people.
I don’t know anyone involved in the Iraq War, but it does affect me and the country I love.
Love the Youtube songs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..mp;search=
Just got here…
Fuckin’ A right, girl!
Ed*ard Teller @ 176
Brilliant! There must be a video record of Brown’s Senate confirmation hearing somewhere in the C-SPAN or Senate archives.
Thanks Jane. I agree with everything you said. I not only want Lamont to win, I want him to win BIG! I want there to be no doubt. So I am interested in this race, and I will donate to this race.
This is like the line drawn in the sand to me. It is that important. AFter watching Liberman’s concession (?) speech and seeing how he has conducted himself the last few days, I’m even angrier than I was.
Some how, I believe that if the average CT voter realizes that Rove and all supports Liberman and want him elected, and are helping him run a Rove dirty campaign, and to even know that money that is sent to Liberman will be used for pollsters that will then share that information with the Republicans… Somehow I think that the people of that state that are not happy about Iraq or Bush, will not vote for Joe, even if they liked him before.
Your job, and that of other bloggers, is to make sure that the information gets out there to the average voter. You can be sure that many pundit types from the MSM have someone on their staff reading blogs. There are things that bloggers can do and print that maybe the Lamont campaign cannot do. We can relentlessly say – Rove, Rove. Republican money to Liberman. Everything that is said by and for Joe, can be out there in the internet. And some of it is bound to make it to the mainstream.
Anne Holliday @ 271
No video but here’s the transcript…
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.go…..81311.wais
what comment 1 says, yah.
goes good with peas.
Cozumel @
273
don’t get your hopes up about video because CSpan does not routinely cover the hundreds of boring committee meetings on The Hill …
HOWEVER, I do believe I do recall seeing some video from that time relating to Snowe and Lieberman saying really really nice things about Brownie !
Marshall’s concern lies more with the Ct. donnybrook sucking the oxygen out of other races across the country than any particularl love of Lieberman (although he has written that he does like the man).
Whether you (Jane) wish to focus on the Lamont-Lieberman set-to is a matter of pure personal preference. All the reasosn you cite are good ones, but there is literally nothing you can do if Lamont doesn’t help himself.
Marshall’s concern lies more with the Ct. donnybrook sucking the oxygen out of other races across the country than any particularl love of Lieberman (although he has written that he does like the man).
Whether you (Jane) wish to focus on the Lamont-Lieberman set-to is a matter of pure personal preference. All the reasons you cite are good ones, but there is literally nothing you can do if Lamont doesn’t help himself.
You rightly point out that when one has one’s political opponent down and your heel upon his neck, for God’s sake finish the sumbitch off, something Lamont emphatically did not do and has *not* done.
It’s all fine and dandy for you to concentrate on this race, but in some ways it’s a waste of focus and time unless Lamont begins to exhibit a lot more ferocity than he’s shown so far.
Since the primary win Lamont has been as much of a disappointment to me as the DSCC and DCCC have been. While some of Schumer’s ex-staff members are now working for Lieberman, and while Sen. Pryor mealy-mouths his way across the Senatorial firmament, Lamont seems content with words rather than actions.
The Democrats won’t turn off Lieberman’s backers as they did Paul Hackett’s in Ohio until they’re convinced that Lamont has a real chance to win Ct. Regardless of how wonderful Edwards was, Lamont needs to help himself first.
Here is what Mr. Lamont is up to this weekend.
Thanks, Jane. You go girl.
I contributed (again) to Lamont’s campaign last night, and I live in Texas.
Hilda — but I am not talking about you. I don’t know why selfish folks would even come on this blog. Trust me — I am not talking about you personally. I don’t know you and take what you say at face value.
But — I see a lot of people in real life who would say they are so moral/nice, etc. but they really aren’t. That is because in America today, it is all show. Yes, some can volunteer at so and so — yet vote Republican. To me, ANYONE voting GOP in this year is NOT moral. Just my opinion.
Yes, I realize I am considered a “far left nut.” I am not. No one could have a more normal, middle-of-the-road life than I have had — married 28 years (to the same man), 3 grown children, I have always worked, blah blah blah. Yet, I remember the Viet Nam war. I can assure you that the protestors were not “dirty hippies” as “conventional wisdom” now says. Why do so many my age tell lies? Who knows? Scared? Maybe. But I go back to my hometown and see the people I smoked pot with a LOT telling their kids, “Do NOT smoke pot! It is dangerous!” Why do Americans, when they get old, begin lying?
It so sad more Democrats couldn’t infilitrate the Republican party. Stupid things like integrity just keep getting in the way.
immanentize @265 — so what if Joshua Marshall didn’t write the post? He published it at the top of his blog, and without comment — that’s not only approval, that’s promotion! You and *ilson both want to give him a pass because he didn’t write it himself, and because he’s a “nice guy.” That’s the same sort of excuses we keep hearing from the Loserman supporters and enablers.
“These are the times that try mens souls…” If what Josh is peddling at TPM is from his soul, then he has been tried and found wanting. This country faces the greatest challenges to its founding principles since the Civil War, and the Lamont-Loserman contests is an important component to reassembling America.
Shell,
I would agree that there are “phonies” out there who pretend to be caring and just aren’t. I know people like that from both parties, and I have battled them. Ego and power corrupt (an excellent reason for term limits).
But I also know ordinary people from both parties who do care about others, and act accordingly. We don’t always agree, but we listen to each other.
I don’t know that anyone can explain human nature. But I am willing to be hopeful about the future. I don’t want to despair.
Have a very good evening. It’s been an interesting dialogue. Thunderstorm coming, so it’s time to shut the computer down.
I don’t question sticking with Lamont to the end. My reading of things in the comments [and my own thoughts] is different from the one you paint in this post. I think FDL is a big piece of Ned’s success, and it has been a fine piece of work!
But, I do have a concern that it’s a bit too heavy on anti-Lieberman, and too light on pro-Lamont. I expect that the remaining swing votes in Connecticut don’t hinge on anti-War, or anti-Cloture, or anti-Joe. People who care about those issues are probably already set in their ways. I would bet that the votes that we need to defeat Lieberman are people who need to be engaged by Lamont’s ideas about Connecticut specific issues, or national solutions to our myriad of problems. I think our efforts now should be directed towards moderate Republicans AND moderate Democrats.
That involves moving away from anti-Joe, anti-Bush and into pro-Lamont. That’s the suggestion I’m hearing [maybe in my own head]. Anyone suggesting FDL decrease its focus on this race is missing the essence of FDL [and a lot of other things]…
Holy Joe is a sock puppet for the myth of the omniscient narrative.
What’s there is an illusion, not a democrat; just Dick Cheney’s fist.
TeddySanFran @
38
ditto twice over and doubled again!!!!
Josh M is a Lieberman Democrat, he was for the war and only changed his opinion when there was enough public opinion against the war. Let Josh and Kevin explain how they fell for Rove’s mornonic propoganda WMD, WMD, WMD. They fell for it once they will fall for it again.
I agree with Jane’s comment, “I’m sorry but I’m really not willing to go to the mat for a party full of Bob Caseys, and Chuck Schumer …” but that is what Kos, Drum and Marshall are all about. Electing Democrats no matter what their position is on fundamental issues.
For example, I am in CA-50. Busby was sending out flyers calling for the repeal of the “Death Tax.” This is just bullshit. If we continue to support those kind of Democrats, we will continue to have to clean up after ourselves. It is not a victory to get 51 seats or a majority in the House unless we have a unified platform.
I read Josh’s Blog because he writes well and does an excellent job with issues like social security. But beyond that he is not a dependable opinion.
He never met Lieberman but he “likes him.” I think he “likes him” because they share the same political viewpoint.
Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committe Southern Chair Senator Mark Pryor.
I think I’m more jaded than normal. I’d rather have a Repug in Joe’s seat. No Single Repug could harm progressive causes, as much as Joe has. Everytime we have tried to fight the administration, Joe has stuck up for them. In each instance, Ari fLIEsher, Snotty McClelland or Tony SnowJob has pointed to “Senator Lieberman…” and the issue is not about the admin’s outrage–it’s about us, personally.
In World War II, the Nazi’s learned that ONE 5th Columnist was worth more than a thosand regular troops and that’s what we have with Benedict Lieberman and all the rest of the week, sniveling “Repug Lite”, Vichy Democrats.
If I’m going down, I’d rather go down with my boots on, than to cower to these bastards–as those who supposedly represent us, do.
Ugh. First, Ciro Rodriguez; then Francine Busby; now Ned Lamont.
I’m not saying these are all losers — in fact, I think Lamont will win — but the fixaction on them did drive a bit of wind out of other campaigns that were equally as deserving of attention.
Jane,
I’m always late to the afternoon party but I will add my two bits. I think you are spot on, as the Aussies often say, and the proof of that is how much attention the Lamont race has gotten and the furor that has been created over the Lieberman loss. If this whole business wasn’t such a crucial matter the mighty Wurlitzer would never have cranked up the volume over it. It’s pretty amazing how loud the chorus of howls from Wingnuttia has been. If we are serious about prevailing in November and the years ahead we cannot back off now.
I’m with you. Josh Marshall doesn’t have a clue. I have deleted him from favorites because he is one of those wishy washy self-proclaimed “moderates” that can’t define that term without putting someone else down.
The Republicans have come up with another brilliant ploy for the coming elections and it is their only hope of success. That ploy is this: Democrats shouldn’t make statements, adopt positions, or take actions that are either critical of Republicans or supportive of Progressive Democrats because that will play right into the hands of Carl Rove. When you think about it, it is a perfect example of the Rove strategy of taking the opposition’s strength and turning it into a weakness. Our strength is that we are united in opposition to the failed Bush/Cheney/Republican led Congress policies that have been so damaging to the country. The way to turn it into a weakness is to pretend that this opposition is just what Carl Rove was hoping for in order to ensure the election of Republicans in November. Don’t believe it!!!
The last thing Rove and the Republicans want is for us to keep pointing out over and over again the failure of Bush’s little adventure in Iraq, the failure to capture Osama bin Laden, the failure of Bush’s handling of domestic troubles such as Katrina, the failure to help mediate peace in the Middle East, the failure to address healthcare, social security, or the environment and the failure to accomplish one single positive goal for the country. Not only do Democrats have to keep singing from the same hymnal, we have to sing loud and clear to make sure that everyone hears us. It’ll drive Karl Rove crazy.
(sound of trumpets) CHARGE!!! You are one heck of a fearless leader. Thanks for this post, as I had begun to get a bit disheartened by what I perceived to be a lessening of passion for Lamont. So not so!
Ms. Hamsher, all the time and energy you’re devoting to the Connecticut race would be better spent bringing more attention to other Democrats.
Big Picture Dem—perhaps you’d like to use your credit card here?
I am prone to quibbling, to pointing at the 0.001% disagreement that I have with a speaker or writer.
In this case, I have no quibbles, no complaints, no disagreements. I agree 100%.
Let’s beat these bastards — all of them. When we have no choice, we go with someone like Casey. If there is a better alternative, we take it. We beat them in 2006 and 2008, we change the system and we etch it in stone. We learn vigilance and make damn sure that fascism never raises its ugly head in America again.
Then we party.