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No, the above photo was not taken over at Ace's place after a raging fuschia terror alert (and yes, I stole that joke from TBogg). It's actually a jar of biodiesel fuel. I have put far too many miles on my car over the past couple of months and I'm ready to hand it back to my leasing company with a nice note and a bow, but the question is -- what to replace it with?
Donita and my friend Linda M. (veteran of YK1) have been very convincing on the biodiesel front. I know there are a lot of opinions about the practicality and sustainability of biodiesel cars, so I'm going to throw it out there -- what do you think? I may as well put up a sign saying "calling all wingnuts" to lecture me on how all attempts at energy conservation are merely exercises in liberal vanity but humor me, okay? Pretend the planet is more than just something you piss on from the frat house balcony for a moment. I'd like to know what reasonable folks consider the wisest decision at the moment with regard to fuel economy, the environment, and -- let's remember -- Kobe is all about style.
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NED!
Rarely is the question asked: Is our presidents idiots?
Way back in 1995, some friends of mine
made a great film about a cross country trip using biodiesel called Fat of the Land
http://lardcar.com
and here is another piece on biofuel
http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/20576/
But you should also look into the Ford hybrid.
Jane, funny you should post this now. Yesterday I received my September issue of Scientific American, and the Sept. issue is always a special issue. This month: Energy’s Future: Beyond Carbon Get a copy and read the whole thing. It gives you hope in a sometimes depressing world.
edit - title missing ‘D’ in 2nd biodiesel
is biodiesel fuel readily available in your neck of the woods?
My stepbrother has used leftover cooking oil to power his diesel pickup for several years now. He likes it, and there seems to be a big supply of free fuel out there. Of course, you’ll have to strain it before you use it, and there’s a little conversion kit that needs to be installed.
I thought canine interest in vehicles mostly had to do with whether there was an open window they could sniff, so I can’t be much help there.
Jane,
I’m not sure what you mean by “biodiesel cars.” Most diesel engines can be converted to biodiesel, some quite easily. I’ve been trying to get three or four other diesel users (I’ve got a diesel Golf) together to form a biodiesel making club or co-op.
All I can say at this point is I sure wish I’d put 25K down on Willie Nelson’s biodiesel company when it went public last year!
Electric!
Motorcycle. (not a full solution but a 60MPG one)
Get a PRIUS, and then down the road, you can have it modified into a plug-in hybrid (PHEV).
PHEVs are like regular hybrids but with larger batteries and the ability to re-charge from a standard outlet (mostly at night). They’re the best of both worlds: local travel is electric, and you always have a gas-tank backup or for longer trips. Most of the usage is electric which is the *best* possible solution (see the film ”Who killed the electric car”).
I’ve been enamored of this idea for a few months now, and have been perusing the classifieds for a suitable diesel car at a decent price.
Your choices are to do one of two things when it comes to using waste vegetable oil (WVO) as fuel: modify it into biodiesel and run it in an unaltered vehicle, or modify the vehicle to handle straight VO and merely strain the VO. The former takes time and effort, while the latter takes an up-front investment. Both will quickly pay for themselves.
http://www.alternative-energy-.....esel-fuel/
Here’s a website you might like to visit. I liked the one headline that gives you a recipie to make your own biodiesel fuel…out of used cooking oil.
I live here in IL and the (corn) farmers seem like a better group of people to be making money off of the American people than the shieks and Saudi Princes. I think they also have our nations best interest at heart. Can’t say that about the Middle East right now.
It’s environmentally sound, renewable, and it benefits Americans. Can’t beat it in my opinion.
as a Hoosier, I have to ask — have you considered E-85 ?
The Honda Civic gets better gas mileage than a Prius. If you are in the luxury market, maybe the Lexus Hybrid SUV.
A lot will depend on the driving you think you’ll be doing. I know there are a couple of blogs (at least) on this subject because I used to follow them a couple of clean-reinstalls ago.
However, the definitive website for things automotive is:
http://www.edmunds.com/
It’s well worth the free registration, even if you only make one lease/purchase decision.
A few months ago, my partner and I did a photo shoot at a biodiesel plant that will soon be coming online. Fry-O-Diesel in Philadelphia. They are planning to get their foot in the door of the alternative fuel market by selling biodiesel to the city for the school buses. Their main selling point for this customer wasn’t the air pollution outside the bus, it was the poor air quality inside the bus that the kids were exposed to.
I went thru this decision last summer… E-85 isn’t readily available on my daily route… so I looked at hybrid… in the end, I bought a little Vibe (built by toyota, sold by pontiac)…36mpg highway, buckets of room for the doggies, able to climb tall mountains and good looking enough - though still not my beautiful Miata!)… it’s not super high tech or super cool, but the numbers work out very, very well…
and every time I fill the tank, I get to flip the bird to Dick Cheney!
I got the new Civic too, even the gas model gets 40mpg (I you drive it like you want to get it).
Biodiesel is a fraud. The energy returned on the energy invested is negligible.
Growing the crops takes massive amounts of energy (usually in the form of fossil fule inputs for fertilizer and pesticides); harvesting the crops takes massive amounts of energy; transporting the crops and processing them takes massive amounts of energy. By the time you’re done, you’ve barely broken even.
Well, if style *and* eco-friendly is important, there’s always a tesla roadster:
http://www.teslamotors.com/
Though you’ll need a new mortgage to buy it!
ned on cnn now
Ned looks good - rested…
move to nyc and take the subway. zip cars in a pinch…
jane, i get between 48 and 55 mpg with my prius, which also takes ethanol, if it were available.
great technology, great service, great little car. best investment i ever made. so far.
Did you see where Ford is going to cut production by over 20%?
http://www.forbes.com/business.....utput.html
If style and eco-friendly are important, you could always get a tesla roadster, though you’ll need a new mortgage to afford it!
There are new diesels coming out next year, even really sporty ones.
I have a 2002 beetle diesel that gets 47 mpg, and I buy biodiesel when I can find it. I love the car. It is big inside, has tons of torque & pick up, and is the best car I have ever had. I rent an apartment & cannot make my own fuel out of McDonalds’ waste oil, but if there is anyone on the North side of Chicago that does I would be happy to get the converter & buy fuel from them. (BTW, I emailed your friend in LA about his single tank system availability around here, but have not heard back).
I have but a few minutes so I will not elaborate. What I have time to say it that the biodiesel is marketing hype to get a (small) business going. (In that way that our capitalistic society is structured) It is not viable long term or in large production. Only a few, expending the effort to do so, can only benefit as it is now.
Diesel supposedly has more BTUs per given mass, but it takes more to get it completely out. Diesel motors as produced and used do not do that, so most of the potential energy is majorly wasted. For the ‘green’ side of you, that means that there are more polutants that can and is given off from a gasoline powered cars.
Yes, the is more to the arguement, but that brief will give you more questions to ponder to ask… Maybe.
Electric? As is, not worth it.
Ned said his daughter found out on election day she’d been registered as “unaffiliated.” I wonder if this is related to problems other people were having who could swear they registered Democratic only to find out it wasn’t that way officially? If it weren’t Connecticut, I’d call hanky panky!
I’m waiting for someone to make a diesel/electric hybrid van that gets about 50mpg… good with the dogs and good on my poor old wrecked back!
Just an anecdote.
My friend has a diesel 1981 Mercedes station wagon and he buys cooking oil in bulk. He pours it right into his tank mixing it with his diesel fuel and it runs fine with no modification. He lives in a warm climate though. If you live where it freezes it may not run as smoothly.
It costs more than diesel at the moment but if fuel costs keep going up it could be economical very soon.
I hate to be a blog whore, but I made a nice post about biodiesel on my blog back in April with some good resources.
Also check this 3 and half minute clip from Biodiesel Michigan from the History Channel about George Washington Carver, Henry Ford, and the true origins of biodiesel.
Ah, biodiesel …
Otto Diesel ran his original engines on peanut oil. People switched to kerosene when it got to be cheaper than vegetable oils.
There is an outfit in LA that is doing a land office business buying 80’s era Mercedes turbodiesels and rebuilding them while re-equipping them to handle vegetable oils.
Right now biodiesel is available for free, and the folks who are burning it are doing us all a service by disposing of a potentially hazardous waste. I don’t expect the free-for-the-taking status to last too very much longer.
At free (but for the cost of the retrofit, which is pretty low — a heat exchanger to heat the vegetable oil and a second (small tank) for kerosene to start the engine, biodiesel competes more than favorably with kerosene.
The big question is what happens when a reprocessing industry has sprung up around it? The cost will go from zero to ????. How much corn/soy/peanut/cottonseed/rapeseed/sunflower oil is used in our restaurants daily? How much diesel fuel is consumed daily? How many people will convert to biodiesel? The answer to the question, “How much will it cost?” depends on the answers to those questions. Decent figures are only available to answer the diesel consumption question.
BC — back at last, and the start of the semester is staring me down.
Go Blue! Volkswagen’s Diesel-Sipping Polo Gets 62 mpg
a good friend drives a beautiful, funky mercedes on veggie oil from the chinese place down the street. hasn’t paid for more than a few gallons of regular diesel in three years. clean, runs great tho i’m not sure if it will satisfy a poodle.
JB2 @ 20
As Tom says in #27, biodiesel can be made from waste frying oil. An example might be the upcoming state fair near you, where the vendors will be dumping thousands and thousands of gallons of cooking oil, paying the people who get rid of it big bucks….
From the Sept Issue of Scientific American - a little OT.
Ford, GMC are both going hurting in a real way real soon. They didn’t plan ahead b/c they were making so much on big trucks and SUV’s. Toyota is the number #2 in auto maker in U.S. sales.
I worship at the alter of Toyota (trucks) and Honda (cars and motorcycles). Nothing can touch the valule/reliablity/fuel efficiency combo of those 2. The new Civic is seriously redesigned and get good mileage and ain’t slow (the gas version, never driven the hybrid but if power isn’t an issue and the extra cash up front isn’t i’m sure its a winner too).
Ned on lieberman - “experience does not equate to judgement”
As a half-baked auto expert, my advice to you is to simply choose the best vehicle you can afford that promises fuel savings and minimal environmental impact. The farther you pursue technological obsessions, the quicker you’ll be ready for a padded room.
Does your lifestyle really allow you to go scavenging for fuel every time you fill up? I’ve seen biodiesel conversions that look almost practical, but unless you’re willing to put a storage tank in your front yard you’re going to be resorting to regular diesel a lot more often than you think if you drive regularly. Also, it would be nice to not have to give up your ability to transport two weeks’ worth of groceries in your trunk, which is where the auxiilary biodiesel tank usually goes in these home-brew conversions.
There’s starting to be demand for an E85-like blend of petrodiesel and biodiesel that doesn’t require you to install a conversion kit on your conventional diesel car, so that’s a toe in the water.
Also, you should be aware, if you’re buying new, that 2007 is going to be a lousy year to buy a diesel car. This is the first year that stricter diesel emission standards are kicking in and the US fuel supply is being forcibly converted to low-sulfur diesel fuel, which will cut the diesel smell but not the oily residue that makes self-fueling a diesel so unpleasant. VW is rushing an extra batch of 2006 diesel cars to market because they won’t have any 2007 diesel models — the low-sulfur conversion is going to take them an extra year to figure out. Jeep is discontinuing the diesel Liberty for the same reason, though they’re rushing out a more modern Grand Cherokee diesel for 2007.
Anyway, your post sounds like the famous last words of a soon-to-be Prius owner, so if you don’t live someplace that has a six-month waiting list for the little beasties, that’s an option. The Honda Civic hybrid is a good alternative, especially the newest one. Ford’s hybrid Escape apparently isn’t meeting sales targets, so you might be able to drive one home today — despite being an SUV, it gets good fuel mileage. It’s also a compact SUV, so parking won’t be a problem. Check your Mercury dealer too, where the Escape hybrid is known as the Mariner hybrid. And Saturn is just rolling out its Vue Green Line, a mild hybrid compact SUV. It’s not as fully tricked out as the Escape from a hybrid performance standpoint, but it’s a few grand cheaper.
If you’re not one of these folks who is scared to death of subcompact cars, you can do worse than the following list of new cars: Toyota Yaris, Nissan Versa, Honda Fit, or any of the Scions (Toyota). All average in the high 30s with no excess technological trickery and can hit 40 mpg on the highway. The Scion xB is that little breadbox-looking car you sometimes see on the highway, perfectly rectangular, but folks that have them really like them — you can even do that weekly trip to Lowe’s in it if you’re so inclined.
As for diesels, I’d wait and see how the new generation of low-sulfur calibrated models shakes out before making any recommendations there, although if you insist on diesel now, a 2006 Jetta, Golf or New Beetle would be an OK investment. But the upcoming models will be better on emissions.
The US may be able to use conservation and selectively grow our use of alternative fuels like biodiesel. We’ve been through the extensive phases of growth.
Truely, we can at this point turn our attention to controlled intensive growth, and put severe limits on the speed of future growth - and probably hold it together, but only if we implement extensive redistribution of wealth to make the coming scarcity more fair.
But it will never work in the developing world. Efficient use of energy is never a high priority in the extensive phases of growth.
With China and India entering the global trough, the only feasible power source consistent with controlling greenhouse gases is nuclear. We’re turning back to the atom. Or, at the very least, they are.
Biodiesel in Asia? Poppycock.
OT - sorry if posted before:
One former senior intelligence official is particularly concerned by private briefings that Vice President Dick Cheney is getting from former Office of Special Plans (OSP) Director, Abram Shulsky.
“Vice President Cheney is relying on personal briefings from Shulsky for current intelligence on Iran,” said this intelligence official.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2....._0818.html
Yeah Honda’s new fit is the most economical and reliable solution. Start at $15K, the Civic has a lot more power gets the same milage but is cost more too. Could’t go wrong w/ a Fit for sure though. Civic also got the highest saftey rating, airbags all over that new one.
Here’s some Fitz news if you haven’t heard:
Judge withholds classified docs from Libby
Disclosure could cause ‘grave damage’ to the national security
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14409199/
U.S. prosecutors change indictment against Conrad Black: lawyer
http://money.canoe.ca/News/Sec.....13-cp.html
twolf - hmm, Dick getting “private intelligence briefings”? that can’t be good…
So finally something where I can add something! :)
I’ve been driving a 2004 Jetta Wagon for over 30 months now (just turned 50k miles). I’ve been using biodiesel since my first fillup (baring road trips where I can’t get any); lifetime, I’m averaging over 75% biodiesel. It’s been a very positive experience.
I buy commercially, as there are a couple stations near my commute (Denver to Boulder) and it has cost a bit more than regular diesel but I feel very worthwhile. Since I’m averaging almost 42mpg lifetime, I feel I can afford a bit extra/gallon to do my part.
You have a number of vehicle options now, from the Jeep Liberty to the VW models (Golf, Jetta, Jetta Wagon, Passat, Passat Wagon) to some Mercedes Benzs (esp if you want some of the older models) to any number of big trucks. I was heavily swayed by safety features and a good ratio of interior space to exterior size. The good news is most diesels have great usable power and are relatively more efficient than their gasoline-powered counterparts.
If you want more info, there are lots of knowlegable users on various bulletin boards. A couple that I read are:
TDIClub’s Bio forum: http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52
BiodieselNow’s forums: http://forums.biodieselnow.com.....p?CAT_ID=2
and a nifty calculator for figuring out an appropriate winter blend: http://www.duffscience.com/bio.....lation.htm
you guys… with 3 rather jumbo poodles, I don’t think the Fit or the Yaris are going to exactly roll Jane’s socks…
Well if you didn’t have dogs to lug around, I’d say go for a Vespa…get it and a matching helmet in FDL coordinated colors, talk about stylin’! hehe.
Seriously though I dun know nothink about cars and stuff like that, I outsource that kind of stuff to others gladly :)
OldCoastie @ 46
…history shows it’s not :(
I would just say get a bicycle with a basket. Jane and her
littlebig dogs tooooo!with 3 perfectly healthy strong Poodles, perhaps a petite carriage and a 3-dog yoke might work for local travel ?
The Fit actually has a good deal of roomfor dogs b/c of the way the back folds down. It has a lot more room than a Civic which is a lot bigger car.
http://automobiles.honda.com/m.....elName=Fit
*ilson46201 @ 51
A Vespa with turquoise side car - tres fashionable.
JB2 @
20
I’d be interested in knowing where you pulled this from. According to Wikipedia:
(Source)
Also, your claim fails the sniff test: the cost of biodiesel is too low for it to require as much oil to produce as you claim, while quite consistant with the 1 to 12.5 crude, 1 to 3.2 ratios mentioned in the linked articles.
–MarkusQ
NPR ran a story last year that I heard while I was down in Washington state, so I don’t remember if it was national, ’cause it was about a guy who lives near Tacoma who has been making biodiesel from waste vegetable oil for at least ten years.
He has contracts with several fast food places near his home. He picks up their waste deep fry oil on a scheduled basis. He runs his batches of biodiesel in groups which contain waste oil from one source. So, a McDonalds batch, then a Burker King batch, then a Chinese food batch, etc.
He claims that when he drives I-5 in the countryside, that if he’s burning a McDonalds batch, cars will peel off at exits with McDonald logos showing; when running BK, people peel off from behind him at the BK ramp.
*ilson - I keep thinking my 2 big dogs should be able to pull a nifty cart with me in it (’specially since we aren’t making that much progress on their daily game of “competive leash walking”)
Steve Rhodes @ 3
OfTJim VandeHei in the WaPo today:“let me talk about Ohio a bit. fabulously interesting state, politically speaking, this year. I was struck by how toxic the environment is there for Republicans. Mike DeWine, the incumbent senator, is in way more trouble than i thought and Deborah Pryce told me that “hands down” this is the toughest race of her career. Pause for moment to think about that: this is the fourth-ranking GOP leader in a seat she has won six times and captured almost 65 percent of the vote TWO YEARS AGO. her ties to bush are hurting her. her ties to GOP leaders are hurting her. but there is something else happening in Ohio: i dont know if it is the economic anxiety, or the state scandals, but the state seems like a bad place to be a republican right now. contrast that with nearby New York. I do not get the sense republicans are in as bad a spot there, including ray meiers, who is running in a very tough open seat. goes to show that politics are local in many different ways.”
OT, at least one reader criticized VandeHei for his lack of proper capitolization and punctuation, because VandeHei, to his credit, pubished the response.
Pits just love to pull things — to hell with Huskies for the Idederod, just give me pitbulls with teeny snow shoes !
Well, it’s all trade-offs.
First, gas vs. diesel. Normal diesel is more efficient than normal gas. You use less petroleum, that’s a good thing. Normal diesel is more polluting than normal gas. That is changing, but so far it’s still true. More soot, more sulfides. That’s a bad thing.
Second, biodiesel vs. petro-diesel. See JB2’s comment above. I don’t believe that the situation is quite as dire as he lays out, but at present, biodiesel is a corn product. As such using it for fuel is in competition with other ag uses (direct food, animal food) and export uses. More biodiesel use means more expensive beef or tortillas. If we switched the feedstock from corn to switchgrass/wood pulp/other non-ag crops, we would do much better, but that’s “someday.”
Third, biodiesel vs. greasel. I see comments above on greasel, which is lovely as long as no one else does it. As soon as someone else in your neighborhood converts, tho, you will soon drive up the price without moving the supply at all (until you and your neighbor have bid up the price to the price of unused oil, at which point the restaurant starts selling you new fry-max straight off the truck). In addition, you are competing with the knacker for this stuff. It was not being thown away before! Used oil is “soap on the hoof.” It is a feedstock for a lot of products and if greasel conversion gets popular, I see Valley Protiens (our local knacker) selling filered greasel to gas stations.
I tend to prefer the hybrid with plug-in solution, but I know that every mile driven is another ton of CO2 out the smokestack of the power plant. It’s all trade-offs, I fear.
grs @
33
I don’t know why those links came out that way in that post. They seemed to work in the preview. Retrying them: History Channel clip on Carver, Ford, and Biodiesel and here’s Biodiesel Michigan’s site where you can find the clip and great info.
#s 41 & 47:
Very good advice, both of them.
Other people have mentioned the sustainability and net return on energy of biodiesel and ethanol. As it stands, corn and soy beans are not winners, plus having a competition for corn for both food and energy is not such a good situation.
Surprisingly, willow trees have a great return on energy for ethanol production. I’d suggest getting a flex fuel plugin hybrid, if you can find one.
There seems to be a little confusion in the comments above between biodiesel and vegetable oil. They are not the same. Biodiesel can be used in any diesel engine without modification, while using straight vegetable oil in a diesel engine may require some modifications to the engine. There is a surprisingly informative page on Willie Nelson’s Biodiesel site (yep, that Willie!). http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/technology.html
I follow alternative energy issues fairly closely, and it comes down to this:
- There will have to be rather massive changes in the American culture with regard to transportation, housing and energy consumption. That means the almost immediate demise of the SUV, the use of carbon composit fiber in vehicles, smaller, lighter vehicles, lower speed limits, lower horsepower to weight ratio, more public transportation, etc. I could go on and on.
- Hydrogen costs more to produce than what it saves, except for one potential instance where UC Berkeley is experimenting with genetically modified algae to produce hydrogen.
- Plug in all-electric cars may be a realistic choice, if things like zinc-air batteries are used.
- Right now, biodiesel takes more energy to produce than is saves, but some bioengineering efforts may make it realistic.
Jane, I have a Prius, which I love, I think Kobe would look tres elegant in it. It somehow manages to be small on the outside and nearly as big as a Camry on the inside; four of us, with our luggage, recently drove six hours to a conference and were happy and relaxed when we got there - and one had a cast on his leg!
Mileage, while generally short of promised, is never less than 45mpg (when I do 80, which it does easily) and usually in the low-to-mid 50’s. If I want to be a pain in the ass to other drivers and aren’t in a hurry, I can get over 65mpg.
Yes, it’s about $23,000 now, but the average price for a new car is over $28,000; and it’s a good-looking, well-made car.
Other than that, you might want to wait till someone begins importing diesel-electric hybrids from Europe, rumored to get 80mpg…
future best solution? flex fuel plugin hybrid with the home charging station powered by solar… then we’d be cooking!
If you’re going the new biodiesel route (sorry for the pun), you’ll have to buy it in Oregon. The CA air quality standards have kept passenger diesels out for some years, although Mercedes and maybe VW were working on getting their 2007 models qualified. I’ve lost track of where they are in that process.
The Appalachian State Collaborative Biodiesel Project is amazing.
They’ve built a small-scale, closed loop biodiesel processor. Its unreal these guys!
There just isn’t a good option out there right now. I would just go for the best fuel milage car that gives you the room you need. Then, take the time you would have used going crazy looking at the various choices, and use it to agitate for change. Just think what we would have if we had spent the Iraq war money on alternative fuel research.
Willow Weasel @ 64
Read _The Omnivore’s Dilemma_, by Michael Pollen. You’ll never feel the same way about corn again.
F.U. and your H2
Petrodiesel is very, very bad for the environment. Biodiesel is not. Ensure that you can get biodiesel easily, or you’ll be driving around spewing out sulphur.
The veggie oil conversion isn’t that expensive, and would pay for itself, if you didn’t mind showing up at meetings smelling like french fries.
VW TDI engines are reknowned for their efficiency and convertability.
Give Darryl Hannah a call. She knows such things.
The answer isn’t biodiesel, it’s gasohol. Get a nice flex fuel car.
how about the new camry hybrid? big enough for the dogs and the synergy drive in the prius is proven technology
#29 - Electric? As is, not worth it.
We have had a Honda Insight for nearly six years that gets over 60 mpg. Our Civic hybrid gets around 45 mpg. How is that not worth it?
Also, I agree with #20. And no one mentions the depletion of topsoil, a most precious and irreplaceable resource.
http://www.footprintrecycling.com/
My mechanic referred me to this web site and its owner/president, Andy Cooper.
The owner of the shop said the other day, “It’s not a panacea, but it is a solution.” He’s madly attempting to get current with the ramifications of the fuel. He often asks me where I purchase biodiesel so he can give referrals to the many customers who are asking him questions.
I switched over to biodiesel in late June. Average price per gallon since has been $2.95. I drive a ‘91 Mercedes Turbo. The engine sounds great and it’s running very clean. But I’m getting slightly worse mileage. Likely due to a Turbo system air leak that needs to be fixed. Will likely top off the tank this weekend with regular diesel to give me a bit more power for a modest road trip to destinations without biodiesel.
If you purchase a used diesel, it’s recommended to change your gas filters for the first six months at least when you get your oil change.
I’m (sadly) surprised at the number of commentators who are conflating biodiesel with simple vegetable oil.
Biodiesel is made from vegetable oil (either waster or new). Most diesel-engined cars can run on it without much modification. Older cars may need to have some seals and hoses traded out for ones made of newer materials, but often even this isn’t needed. AFAIK, all new diesel-engined cars can be run on biodiesel. In Europe, biodiesel is available at the pumps just like gasoline and regular diesel.
Diesel-engined cars can run on straight vegetable oil. However, usually modifications are required, mainly to deal with the temperature sensivity of straight vegetable oil (i.e., it congeals at low temps). Kits often include extra tanks so that the car can run diesel or veggie oil and heaters to keep the veggie oil warm.
As to the overall energy/carbon/dollar picture, I have not seen numbers that make a clear case for yes or no longterm. I have seen plenty of numbers from different groups that _think_ they have convincing data, but nothing that has convinced me.
That said, if I drove much (I only have a two mile commute and often walk when I’m not biking or taking my 39 mpg AH Sprite), I’d probably run a small diesel pickup on biodiesel that I would purify myself because I like playing around with things like that.
Go for a VW TDI, if you can find one….you can easily get ~50mpg.
OT- *ilson- feel free to delete this if it is just too outre- but since this is a “household” thread in a way, I will introduce my own compelling dilemma. My downstairs toilet is running very slowly. I think I accidentally flushed a sponge or some seriously charred rotten bread into it, along with some paper towels when I ran out of TP. I don’t want to use really nasty commercial liquids, because if they don’t work, I am in a bigger mess than before. Advice anyone, apart from “call a plumber” or “get a toilet snake”? I offer this topic as an alternative to those who (like myself) don’t know anything about newer cars (1989 Toyota Camry here), but may have had to deal with plumbing issues.
O/T Ned on CNN, and with all the important issues to address Wolf wants to embarrass both Ned and his 19 year old daughter because she was unaffilitated the day of the primary and could not vote. What an ass I am to still watch that jerk.
Oh my God! Something I can write on as a certified expert!
Jane, if your primary concern is to buy a car that minimally impacts the environment, skip all the hybrids first. It’s not that hybrid technology doesn’t work, but that it’s an exceedingly complex way to arrive at fuel savings (and ALL of the hybrids I’ve driven — which is ALL of them — don’t deliver the mileage gains the EPA ratings would suggest). Instead stay simple and buy the smallest car you’re comfortable with.
By the way, hybrids are particularly inappropriate for non-urban areas like, say, coastal Oregon. Since the essence of hybrid fuel savings stems from scavenging power during braking — that is “stop and go” urban driving.
If you can stand the size and its somewhat awkward appearance, the Honda Fit drives spectacularly well, is extremely space efficient, gets terrific mileage and should be as reliable as, well, a Honda. Sure it runs on gasoline, but gas is a lot easier to find then bio-diesel.
Directly competitive to the Fit are the Toyota Yaris, Nissan Versa and Chevrolet Aveo. All have the pluses and minuses, all get very good fuel mileage, and all are cheap. But the Honda is the class of this dinky car field.
If you can’t stand a car that small, move up to the Honda Civic. It’s clearly the best subcompact car out there right now. I’d skip the Hybrid since the regular Civics are all excellent and get decent mileage without the expense or complexity. Of course the real Civic to buy is the Si model which has a 197-horsepower 2.0-liter engine, six-speed transmission and the best chassis ever stuck under a small front-drive car. It still gets good mileage and is a disgusting amount of fun to drive… but it won’t scream “minimal impact” like a hybrid or Fit.
If you can stand the constant hunt for fuel, then diesels are about to become a much, much better option. VW will be re-introducing its TDI diesels soon (early next year, I think) and they all drive well. But I’m suspicious of VW’s quality control these days. However if you can swing the bucks there are also new diesels coming from Mercedes which run very, very cleanly on low-sulfur fuel and should be sweet to drive. But the Mercedes are a way off. As is a new Mercedes diesel powered version of the Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Bio-diesel is fine if you wan to dedicate yourself to a lifestyle around finding recycled vegetable oil. But I’d go for a good, very efficient gas-fueled vehicle first or a latest generation conventional diesel second.
Of course, you could always just go for the 1970 Challenger convertible with a 383. There’s nothing minimal about that.
Jane, I’m still laughing over the “raging fuschia terror alert“.
I have a fave Non Sequitur comic strip that sits on my desk, it shows a man sitting on his porch reading an ‘Alert Level Color Chart’, his wife with a phone, all kinds of UFO’s landing with goofy little one eyed aliens marching towards them, and he’s saying to her: “Tell Homeland Security the closest I can come is fuchsia”.
Cracks me up.
Valley Girl @ 80
snakes in a toilet
http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/do_r.....esel.shtml
I just can’t see what all the fuss about hybrids is. They get better mileage in the city, but on the highway they get worse mileage.
I’ve had a ‘97 Toyota Tercel for 9 years and 90,000 miles. It gets 33 city and 40 on the highway. Last year on vacation it got 51 mpg up in the Rockies (no fluke, it was 3 tanks worth. dry air, I guess). It doesn’t have great power, but enough. Small cars have great turning radii, are easy to park, and there’s plenty of room for me (99.5% of my driving is alone). I haven’t had any major repairs yet. People turn their noses up, but such people suck, and I have no complaints about the car.
Those hybrids are nice for folks who can afford them now, but down the line they will have expensive maintenance issues. And you should consider the environmental impact of disposal of all those heavy metals, or whatever goes into their technology.
For us po’ folks, I think economy cars used in moderation and kept for their lifetimes is the cheapest and most ecofriendly option. I think all of the noise about alternate fuels and hybrids is nice, in and of itself. But missing from the national discussion is economy cars, as if asking Americans to drive smaller vehicles is unthinkable. Kind of like national healthcare. It’s just presumed to be politically unfeasable, so it’s never discussed seriously.
valley girl - did you try a plunger?
twolf1- I thought it would only be a matter of time until that issue was mentioned!!! omigod people as so quick here. So, you’re saying snakes?
re #61: Bio Diesel is not a corn product; corn is relatively low in oil content. Bio Diesel is generally derived from Soy or Canola oils, as Soybeans and Rapeseed have much higher oil content(Rapeseed is the source of Canola oil; you would probably have trouble getting bottles labeled “Rapeseed oil” on the shelf in supermarkets, hence the name swap.)
My wife runs B20 (80% dino diesel, 20% bio diesel) in her 1996 E300D Benz when she can, and is quite happy with it. if you want to run a higher percentage of bio, you need to worry about things like gelling in cold climates. A diesel with gelled fuel isn’t much use.
Jane,
The technology around bio fuels is too new and changing daily with a lot of hype to boot. My advice is to find a car that meets your needs and budget and is in the top of ranks on fuel economy whether diesel or gas. In a few years, when you are ready to replace it, the blush and hype will have blown over and there may be some practical answers. I just bought a new Hyundai that I love. Good price and economy and fabulous warranty. The latest JD Powers initial quality report list Hyundai number 3 behind Lexus and Porsche. Everyone I know that has purchased one is happy. You can also get good value from Toyota or Honda but right now will pay a little more and get less warranty. My 2 cents.
plunger? absolutely!!! I have several plunger riffs in my repertoire, which stop the worst, but don’t get flushing back to normal.
zAmboni @ 80
I’ve had my TDI for about a year, and the best tank was 47.2, the worst (at tempuratures around -20 degrees F) was about 39.
If you can find a Geo Metro with the 3 cylinder block and a 5-speed manual, you can get over 50 mpg.
Practically speaking, I vote hybrid. I have the Lexus 400h, which is oh so stylish when the poodles are out and about, but the Prius or the Ford Escape Hybrid are good options. Mostly, have fun checking them out…
There are hybrid versions of the Camry and Accord, but they are more for performance than mileage, and while their mileage will be very good for their class, they won’t parsimonious enough for you to do a jig every time you fill up. Maybe a few seconds of the Snoopy happy dance…
Valley Girl @ 81
FWIW (and it isn’t worth much, VG) it ain’t the toast. Even badly charred toast dissolves fairly quickly even in cold water.
What it is (probably), is the paper toweling. Those things are specifically designed not to dissolve readily in water. US TP is designed to dissolve fairly readily.
Having diagnosed the problem, we come to the solution. Well, we would come to the solution, except that you specifically eliminated the only two solutions: get a snake and call a plumber.
I guess there is a third potential solution: find some person with a snake and strong enough ties of blood (and/or friendship) and do a Blanche duBois (or is it Scarlett O’Hara? I forget) bit.
BC
As a professional mechanic, I am going to stay out of this. I could go on and on over cost/benefit wrt diesel vs, gas, electric,hybrid etc . At this point my advice to Jane is , get something that suits your needs.There are hundreds of choices.Maybe a small SUV. Don’t overlook the Subaru’s. Diesels are getting better than they ever were but, They are generally more expensive to fix when they do break down and regular maintenance costs can be a bit higher as they hold more oil.
VG - hate to say it, but I’m thinking “snake”… ya know, the one with the cranky-handle thing…
Valley Girl @ 91
well, I’m by no means an expert but I would imagine your next tool is the dreaded snake.
VG, go get a lieberman, hold him by his ankles and plunge away. It may take several forceful thrusts ;)
VG: Do you have a basement or are you on a slab?
No jokes, y’all!
:-)
I vote E-85.
George W. Bushwa: “the foundation of our economy is strong”
Reality Check: “Reeling Ford to cut production”
Can’t do a screen capture here in the tall timber, but seeing those two blurps in lockstep on the msnbc homepage just made me spew.
WTF is this guy smokin’? Is he even in the same time-space continuum as the rest of sentient life?
Happy weekend, pups!
hang on… this toilet thing… the toilet is running or flushing slowly? if running the problem’s got to be in the tank with the flapper assembly… if slow, then you need the snake…
If you want to fart around with making your own biodiesel from used cooking oil, then buy any diesel vehicle. Otherwise, I think Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV’s) are the wave of the future. The ultimate would be a diesel PHEV with advanced emissions reductions, but they are a few years off.