NED!

Rarely is the question asked: Is our presidents idiots?

Way back in 1995, some friends of mine
made a great film about a cross country trip using biodiesel called Fat of the Land

http://lardcar.com

and here is another piece on biofuel

http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/20576/

But you should also look into the Ford hybrid.

Jane, funny you should post this now. Yesterday I received my September issue of Scientific American, and the Sept. issue is always a special issue. This month: Energy’s Future: Beyond Carbon Get a copy and read the whole thing. It gives you hope in a sometimes depressing world.

edit – title missing ‘D’ in 2nd biodiesel

is biodiesel fuel readily available in your neck of the woods?

My stepbrother has used leftover cooking oil to power his diesel pickup for several years now. He likes it, and there seems to be a big supply of free fuel out there. Of course, you’ll have to strain it before you use it, and there’s a little conversion kit that needs to be installed.

I thought canine interest in vehicles mostly had to do with whether there was an open window they could sniff, so I can’t be much help there.

Jane,

I’m not sure what you mean by “biodiesel cars.” Most diesel engines can be converted to biodiesel, some quite easily. I’ve been trying to get three or four other diesel users (I’ve got a diesel Golf) together to form a biodiesel making club or co-op.

All I can say at this point is I sure wish I’d put 25K down on Willie Nelson’s biodiesel company when it went public last year!

Electric!

Motorcycle. (not a full solution but a 60MPG one)

Get a PRIUS, and then down the road, you can have it modified into a plug-in hybrid (PHEV).

PHEVs are like regular hybrids but with larger batteries and the ability to re-charge from a standard outlet (mostly at night). They’re the best of both worlds: local travel is electric, and you always have a gas-tank backup or for longer trips. Most of the usage is electric which is the *best* possible solution (see the film ”Who killed the electric car”).

I’ve been enamored of this idea for a few months now, and have been perusing the classifieds for a suitable diesel car at a decent price.

Your choices are to do one of two things when it comes to using waste vegetable oil (WVO) as fuel: modify it into biodiesel and run it in an unaltered vehicle, or modify the vehicle to handle straight VO and merely strain the VO. The former takes time and effort, while the latter takes an up-front investment. Both will quickly pay for themselves.

http://www.alternative-energy-…..esel-fuel/

Here’s a website you might like to visit. I liked the one headline that gives you a recipie to make your own biodiesel fuel…out of used cooking oil.

I live here in IL and the (corn) farmers seem like a better group of people to be making money off of the American people than the shieks and Saudi Princes. I think they also have our nations best interest at heart. Can’t say that about the Middle East right now.

It’s environmentally sound, renewable, and it benefits Americans. Can’t beat it in my opinion.

as a Hoosier, I have to ask — have you considered E-85 ?

The Honda Civic gets better gas mileage than a Prius. If you are in the luxury market, maybe the Lexus Hybrid SUV.

A lot will depend on the driving you think you’ll be doing. I know there are a couple of blogs (at least) on this subject because I used to follow them a couple of clean-reinstalls ago.

However, the definitive website for things automotive is:

http://www.edmunds.com/

It’s well worth the free registration, even if you only make one lease/purchase decision.

A few months ago, my partner and I did a photo shoot at a biodiesel plant that will soon be coming online. Fry-O-Diesel in Philadelphia. They are planning to get their foot in the door of the alternative fuel market by selling biodiesel to the city for the school buses. Their main selling point for this customer wasn’t the air pollution outside the bus, it was the poor air quality inside the bus that the kids were exposed to.

I went thru this decision last summer… E-85 isn’t readily available on my daily route… so I looked at hybrid… in the end, I bought a little Vibe (built by toyota, sold by pontiac)…36mpg highway, buckets of room for the doggies, able to climb tall mountains and good looking enough – though still not my beautiful Miata!)… it’s not super high tech or super cool, but the numbers work out very, very well…

and every time I fill the tank, I get to flip the bird to Dick Cheney!

I got the new Civic too, even the gas model gets 40mpg (I you drive it like you want to get it).

Biodiesel is a fraud. The energy returned on the energy invested is negligible.

Growing the crops takes massive amounts of energy (usually in the form of fossil fule inputs for fertilizer and pesticides); harvesting the crops takes massive amounts of energy; transporting the crops and processing them takes massive amounts of energy. By the time you’re done, you’ve barely broken even.

Well, if style *and* eco-friendly is important, there’s always a tesla roadster:

http://www.teslamotors.com/

Though you’ll need a new mortgage to buy it!

ned on cnn now

Ned looks good – rested…

move to nyc and take the subway. zip cars in a pinch…

jane, i get between 48 and 55 mpg with my prius, which also takes ethanol, if it were available.

great technology, great service, great little car. best investment i ever made. so far.

Did you see where Ford is going to cut production by over 20%?

http://www.forbes.com/business…..utput.html

If style and eco-friendly are important, you could always get a tesla roadster, though you’ll need a new mortgage to afford it!

There are new diesels coming out next year, even really sporty ones.
I have a 2002 beetle diesel that gets 47 mpg, and I buy biodiesel when I can find it. I love the car. It is big inside, has tons of torque & pick up, and is the best car I have ever had. I rent an apartment & cannot make my own fuel out of McDonalds’ waste oil, but if there is anyone on the North side of Chicago that does I would be happy to get the converter & buy fuel from them. (BTW, I emailed your friend in LA about his single tank system availability around here, but have not heard back).

I have but a few minutes so I will not elaborate. What I have time to say it that the biodiesel is marketing hype to get a (small) business going. (In that way that our capitalistic society is structured) It is not viable long term or in large production. Only a few, expending the effort to do so, can only benefit as it is now.

Diesel supposedly has more BTUs per given mass, but it takes more to get it completely out. Diesel motors as produced and used do not do that, so most of the potential energy is majorly wasted. For the ‘green’ side of you, that means that there are more polutants that can and is given off from a gasoline powered cars.

Yes, the is more to the arguement, but that brief will give you more questions to ponder to ask… Maybe.

Electric? As is, not worth it.

Ned said his daughter found out on election day she’d been registered as “unaffiliated.” I wonder if this is related to problems other people were having who could swear they registered Democratic only to find out it wasn’t that way officially? If it weren’t Connecticut, I’d call hanky panky!

I’m waiting for someone to make a diesel/electric hybrid van that gets about 50mpg… good with the dogs and good on my poor old wrecked back!

Just an anecdote.

My friend has a diesel 1981 Mercedes station wagon and he buys cooking oil in bulk. He pours it right into his tank mixing it with his diesel fuel and it runs fine with no modification. He lives in a warm climate though. If you live where it freezes it may not run as smoothly.

It costs more than diesel at the moment but if fuel costs keep going up it could be economical very soon.

I hate to be a blog whore, but I made a nice post about biodiesel on my blog back in April with some good resources.

Also check this 3 and half minute clip from Biodiesel Michigan from the History Channel about George Washington Carver, Henry Ford, and the true origins of biodiesel.

Ah, biodiesel …

Otto Diesel ran his original engines on peanut oil. People switched to kerosene when it got to be cheaper than vegetable oils.

There is an outfit in LA that is doing a land office business buying 80’s era Mercedes turbodiesels and rebuilding them while re-equipping them to handle vegetable oils.

Right now biodiesel is available for free, and the folks who are burning it are doing us all a service by disposing of a potentially hazardous waste. I don’t expect the free-for-the-taking status to last too very much longer.

At free (but for the cost of the retrofit, which is pretty low — a heat exchanger to heat the vegetable oil and a second (small tank) for kerosene to start the engine, biodiesel competes more than favorably with kerosene.

The big question is what happens when a reprocessing industry has sprung up around it? The cost will go from zero to ????. How much corn/soy/peanut/cottonseed/rapeseed/sunflower oil is used in our restaurants daily? How much diesel fuel is consumed daily? How many people will convert to biodiesel? The answer to the question, “How much will it cost?” depends on the answers to those questions. Decent figures are only available to answer the diesel consumption question.

BC — back at last, and the start of the semester is staring me down.

Go Blue! Volkswagen’s Diesel-Sipping Polo Gets 62 mpg

a good friend drives a beautiful, funky mercedes on veggie oil from the chinese place down the street. hasn’t paid for more than a few gallons of regular diesel in three years. clean, runs great tho i’m not sure if it will satisfy a poodle.

JB2 @ 20

Biodiesel is a fraud. The energy returned on the energy invested is negligible.

Growing the crops takes massive amounts of energy (usually in the form of fossil fule inputs for fertilizer and pesticides); harvesting the crops takes massive amounts of energy; transporting the crops and processing them takes massive amounts of energy. By the time you’re done, you’ve barely broken even.

As Tom says in #27, biodiesel can be made from waste frying oil. An example might be the upcoming state fair near you, where the vendors will be dumping thousands and thousands of gallons of cooking oil, paying the people who get rid of it big bucks….

From the Sept Issue of Scientific American – a little OT.

In the U.S., the wind power industry has accelerated dramatically in the past five years, with total generating capacity leaping 36 percent to 9,100 MW in 2005. Although wind turbines now produce only 0.5 percent of the nation’s electricity, the potential for expansion is enormous, especially in the windy Great Plains states…

Ford, GMC are both going hurting in a real way real soon. They didn’t plan ahead b/c they were making so much on big trucks and SUV’s. Toyota is the number #2 in auto maker in U.S. sales.

I worship at the alter of Toyota (trucks) and Honda (cars and motorcycles). Nothing can touch the valule/reliablity/fuel efficiency combo of those 2. The new Civic is seriously redesigned and get good mileage and ain’t slow (the gas version, never driven the hybrid but if power isn’t an issue and the extra cash up front isn’t i’m sure its a winner too).

Ned on lieberman – “experience does not equate to judgement”

As a half-baked auto expert, my advice to you is to simply choose the best vehicle you can afford that promises fuel savings and minimal environmental impact. The farther you pursue technological obsessions, the quicker you’ll be ready for a padded room.

Does your lifestyle really allow you to go scavenging for fuel every time you fill up? I’ve seen biodiesel conversions that look almost practical, but unless you’re willing to put a storage tank in your front yard you’re going to be resorting to regular diesel a lot more often than you think if you drive regularly. Also, it would be nice to not have to give up your ability to transport two weeks’ worth of groceries in your trunk, which is where the auxiilary biodiesel tank usually goes in these home-brew conversions.

There’s starting to be demand for an E85-like blend of petrodiesel and biodiesel that doesn’t require you to install a conversion kit on your conventional diesel car, so that’s a toe in the water.

Also, you should be aware, if you’re buying new, that 2007 is going to be a lousy year to buy a diesel car. This is the first year that stricter diesel emission standards are kicking in and the US fuel supply is being forcibly converted to low-sulfur diesel fuel, which will cut the diesel smell but not the oily residue that makes self-fueling a diesel so unpleasant. VW is rushing an extra batch of 2006 diesel cars to market because they won’t have any 2007 diesel models — the low-sulfur conversion is going to take them an extra year to figure out. Jeep is discontinuing the diesel Liberty for the same reason, though they’re rushing out a more modern Grand Cherokee diesel for 2007.

Anyway, your post sounds like the famous last words of a soon-to-be Prius owner, so if you don’t live someplace that has a six-month waiting list for the little beasties, that’s an option. The Honda Civic hybrid is a good alternative, especially the newest one. Ford’s hybrid Escape apparently isn’t meeting sales targets, so you might be able to drive one home today — despite being an SUV, it gets good fuel mileage. It’s also a compact SUV, so parking won’t be a problem. Check your Mercury dealer too, where the Escape hybrid is known as the Mariner hybrid. And Saturn is just rolling out its Vue Green Line, a mild hybrid compact SUV. It’s not as fully tricked out as the Escape from a hybrid performance standpoint, but it’s a few grand cheaper.

If you’re not one of these folks who is scared to death of subcompact cars, you can do worse than the following list of new cars: Toyota Yaris, Nissan Versa, Honda Fit, or any of the Scions (Toyota). All average in the high 30s with no excess technological trickery and can hit 40 mpg on the highway. The Scion xB is that little breadbox-looking car you sometimes see on the highway, perfectly rectangular, but folks that have them really like them — you can even do that weekly trip to Lowe’s in it if you’re so inclined.

As for diesels, I’d wait and see how the new generation of low-sulfur calibrated models shakes out before making any recommendations there, although if you insist on diesel now, a 2006 Jetta, Golf or New Beetle would be an OK investment. But the upcoming models will be better on emissions.

The US may be able to use conservation and selectively grow our use of alternative fuels like biodiesel. We’ve been through the extensive phases of growth.

Truely, we can at this point turn our attention to controlled intensive growth, and put severe limits on the speed of future growth – and probably hold it together, but only if we implement extensive redistribution of wealth to make the coming scarcity more fair.

But it will never work in the developing world. Efficient use of energy is never a high priority in the extensive phases of growth.

With China and India entering the global trough, the only feasible power source consistent with controlling greenhouse gases is nuclear. We’re turning back to the atom. Or, at the very least, they are.

Biodiesel in Asia? Poppycock.

OT – sorry if posted before:

The Bush administration continues to bypass standard intelligence channels and use what some believe to be propaganda tactics to create a compelling case for war with Iran, US foreign experts and former US intelligence officials tell RAW STORY.

One former senior intelligence official is particularly concerned by private briefings that Vice President Dick Cheney is getting from former Office of Special Plans (OSP) Director, Abram Shulsky.

“Vice President Cheney is relying on personal briefings from Shulsky for current intelligence on Iran,” said this intelligence official.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0818.html

Yeah Honda’s new fit is the most economical and reliable solution. Start at $15K, the Civic has a lot more power gets the same milage but is cost more too. Could’t go wrong w/ a Fit for sure though. Civic also got the highest saftey rating, airbags all over that new one.

Here’s some Fitz news if you haven’t heard:

Judge withholds classified docs from Libby
Disclosure could cause ‘grave damage’ to the national security

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14409199/

U.S. prosecutors change indictment against Conrad Black: lawyer

http://money.canoe.ca/News/Sec…..13-cp.html

twolf – hmm, Dick getting “private intelligence briefings”? that can’t be good…

So finally something where I can add something! :)

I’ve been driving a 2004 Jetta Wagon for over 30 months now (just turned 50k miles). I’ve been using biodiesel since my first fillup (baring road trips where I can’t get any); lifetime, I’m averaging over 75% biodiesel. It’s been a very positive experience.

I buy commercially, as there are a couple stations near my commute (Denver to Boulder) and it has cost a bit more than regular diesel but I feel very worthwhile. Since I’m averaging almost 42mpg lifetime, I feel I can afford a bit extra/gallon to do my part.

You have a number of vehicle options now, from the Jeep Liberty to the VW models (Golf, Jetta, Jetta Wagon, Passat, Passat Wagon) to some Mercedes Benzs (esp if you want some of the older models) to any number of big trucks. I was heavily swayed by safety features and a good ratio of interior space to exterior size. The good news is most diesels have great usable power and are relatively more efficient than their gasoline-powered counterparts.

If you want more info, there are lots of knowlegable users on various bulletin boards. A couple that I read are:
TDIClub’s Bio forum: http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=52
BiodieselNow’s forums: http://forums.biodieselnow.com…..p?CAT_ID=2
and a nifty calculator for figuring out an appropriate winter blend: http://www.duffscience.com/bio…..lation.htm

you guys… with 3 rather jumbo poodles, I don’t think the Fit or the Yaris are going to exactly roll Jane’s socks…

Well if you didn’t have dogs to lug around, I’d say go for a Vespa…get it and a matching helmet in FDL coordinated colors, talk about stylin’! hehe.

Seriously though I dun know nothink about cars and stuff like that, I outsource that kind of stuff to others gladly :)

OldCoastie @ 46

twolf – hmm, Dick getting “private intelligence briefings”? that can’t be good…

…history shows it’s not :(

I would just say get a bicycle with a basket. Jane and her little big dogs tooooo!

with 3 perfectly healthy strong Poodles, perhaps a petite carriage and a 3-dog yoke might work for local travel ?

The Fit actually has a good deal of roomfor dogs b/c of the way the back folds down. It has a lot more room than a Civic which is a lot bigger car.

http://automobiles.honda.com/m…..elName=Fit

*ilson46201 @ 51

with 3 perfectly healthy strong Poodles, perhaps a petite carriage and a 3-dog yoke might work for local travel ?

A Vespa with turquoise side car – tres fashionable.

JB2 @
20

Biodiesel is a fraud. The energy returned on the energy invested is negligible.

Growing the crops takes massive amounts of energy (usually in the form of fossil fule inputs for fertilizer and pesticides); harvesting the crops takes massive amounts of energy; transporting the crops and processing them takes massive amounts of energy. By the time you’re done, you’ve barely broken even.

I’d be interested in knowing where you pulled this from. According to Wikipedia:

U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) traced many of the various costs involved in the production of biodiesel and found that overall, it yields 3.2 units of fuel product energy for every unit of fossil fuel energy consumed.

(Source)

Also, your claim fails the sniff test: the cost of biodiesel is too low for it to require as much oil to produce as you claim, while quite consistant with the 1 to 12.5 crude, 1 to 3.2 ratios mentioned in the linked articles.

–MarkusQ

NPR ran a story last year that I heard while I was down in Washington state, so I don’t remember if it was national, ’cause it was about a guy who lives near Tacoma who has been making biodiesel from waste vegetable oil for at least ten years.

He has contracts with several fast food places near his home. He picks up their waste deep fry oil on a scheduled basis. He runs his batches of biodiesel in groups which contain waste oil from one source. So, a McDonalds batch, then a Burker King batch, then a Chinese food batch, etc.

He claims that when he drives I-5 in the countryside, that if he’s burning a McDonalds batch, cars will peel off at exits with McDonald logos showing; when running BK, people peel off from behind him at the BK ramp.

*ilson – I keep thinking my 2 big dogs should be able to pull a nifty cart with me in it (’specially since we aren’t making that much progress on their daily game of “competive leash walking”)

Steve Rhodes @ 3

Way back in 1995, some friends of mine
made a great film about a cross country trip using biodiesel called Fat of the Land

Steve – too small a world – we must know the same people – have you heard from Nicki or Sarah or Desert Julie lately?

OfTJim VandeHei in the WaPo today:“let me talk about Ohio a bit. fabulously interesting state, politically speaking, this year. I was struck by how toxic the environment is there for Republicans. Mike DeWine, the incumbent senator, is in way more trouble than i thought and Deborah Pryce told me that “hands down” this is the toughest race of her career. Pause for moment to think about that: this is the fourth-ranking GOP leader in a seat she has won six times and captured almost 65 percent of the vote TWO YEARS AGO. her ties to bush are hurting her. her ties to GOP leaders are hurting her. but there is something else happening in Ohio: i dont know if it is the economic anxiety, or the state scandals, but the state seems like a bad place to be a republican right now. contrast that with nearby New York. I do not get the sense republicans are in as bad a spot there, including ray meiers, who is running in a very tough open seat. goes to show that politics are local in many different ways.”
OT, at least one reader criticized VandeHei for his lack of proper capitolization and punctuation, because VandeHei, to his credit, pubished the response.

Pits just love to pull things — to hell with Huskies for the Idederod, just give me pitbulls with teeny snow shoes !

Well, it’s all trade-offs.

First, gas vs. diesel. Normal diesel is more efficient than normal gas. You use less petroleum, that’s a good thing. Normal diesel is more polluting than normal gas. That is changing, but so far it’s still true. More soot, more sulfides. That’s a bad thing.

Second, biodiesel vs. petro-diesel. See JB2’s comment above. I don’t believe that the situation is quite as dire as he lays out, but at present, biodiesel is a corn product. As such using it for fuel is in competition with other ag uses (direct food, animal food) and export uses. More biodiesel use means more expensive beef or tortillas. If we switched the feedstock from corn to switchgrass/wood pulp/other non-ag crops, we would do much better, but that’s “someday.”

Third, biodiesel vs. greasel. I see comments above on greasel, which is lovely as long as no one else does it. As soon as someone else in your neighborhood converts, tho, you will soon drive up the price without moving the supply at all (until you and your neighbor have bid up the price to the price of unused oil, at which point the restaurant starts selling you new fry-max straight off the truck). In addition, you are competing with the knacker for this stuff. It was not being thown away before! Used oil is “soap on the hoof.” It is a feedstock for a lot of products and if greasel conversion gets popular, I see Valley Protiens (our local knacker) selling filered greasel to gas stations.

I tend to prefer the hybrid with plug-in solution, but I know that every mile driven is another ton of CO2 out the smokestack of the power plant. It’s all trade-offs, I fear.

grs @
33

I hate to be a blog whore, but I made a nice post about biodiesel on my blog back in April with some good resources.

Also check this 3 and half minute clip from Biodiesel Michigan from the History Channel about George Washington Carver, Henry Ford, and the true origins of biodiesel.

I don’t know why those links came out that way in that post. They seemed to work in the preview. Retrying them: History Channel clip on Carver, Ford, and Biodiesel and here’s Biodiesel Michigan’s site where you can find the clip and great info.

#s 41 & 47:

Very good advice, both of them.

Other people have mentioned the sustainability and net return on energy of biodiesel and ethanol. As it stands, corn and soy beans are not winners, plus having a competition for corn for both food and energy is not such a good situation.

Surprisingly, willow trees have a great return on energy for ethanol production. I’d suggest getting a flex fuel plugin hybrid, if you can find one.

There seems to be a little confusion in the comments above between biodiesel and vegetable oil. They are not the same. Biodiesel can be used in any diesel engine without modification, while using straight vegetable oil in a diesel engine may require some modifications to the engine. There is a surprisingly informative page on Willie Nelson’s Biodiesel site (yep, that Willie!). http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/technology.html

I follow alternative energy issues fairly closely, and it comes down to this:

- There will have to be rather massive changes in the American culture with regard to transportation, housing and energy consumption. That means the almost immediate demise of the SUV, the use of carbon composit fiber in vehicles, smaller, lighter vehicles, lower speed limits, lower horsepower to weight ratio, more public transportation, etc. I could go on and on.
- Hydrogen costs more to produce than what it saves, except for one potential instance where UC Berkeley is experimenting with genetically modified algae to produce hydrogen.
- Plug in all-electric cars may be a realistic choice, if things like zinc-air batteries are used.
- Right now, biodiesel takes more energy to produce than is saves, but some bioengineering efforts may make it realistic.

Jane, I have a Prius, which I love, I think Kobe would look tres elegant in it. It somehow manages to be small on the outside and nearly as big as a Camry on the inside; four of us, with our luggage, recently drove six hours to a conference and were happy and relaxed when we got there – and one had a cast on his leg!
Mileage, while generally short of promised, is never less than 45mpg (when I do 80, which it does easily) and usually in the low-to-mid 50’s. If I want to be a pain in the ass to other drivers and aren’t in a hurry, I can get over 65mpg.
Yes, it’s about $23,000 now, but the average price for a new car is over $28,000; and it’s a good-looking, well-made car.
Other than that, you might want to wait till someone begins importing diesel-electric hybrids from Europe, rumored to get 80mpg…

future best solution? flex fuel plugin hybrid with the home charging station powered by solar… then we’d be cooking!

If you’re going the new biodiesel route (sorry for the pun), you’ll have to buy it in Oregon. The CA air quality standards have kept passenger diesels out for some years, although Mercedes and maybe VW were working on getting their 2007 models qualified. I’ve lost track of where they are in that process.

The Appalachian State Collaborative Biodiesel Project is amazing.

They’ve built a small-scale, closed loop biodiesel processor. Its unreal these guys!

There just isn’t a good option out there right now. I would just go for the best fuel milage car that gives you the room you need. Then, take the time you would have used going crazy looking at the various choices, and use it to agitate for change. Just think what we would have if we had spent the Iraq war money on alternative fuel research.

Willow Weasel @ 64

Other people have mentioned the sustainability and net return on energy of biodiesel and ethanol. As it stands, corn and soy beans are not winners, plus having a competition for corn for both food and energy is not such a good situation.

Surprisingly, willow trees have a great return on energy for ethanol production. I’d suggest getting a flex fuel plugin hybrid, if you can find one.

Read _The Omnivore’s Dilemma_, by Michael Pollen. You’ll never feel the same way about corn again.

F.U. and your H2

Petrodiesel is very, very bad for the environment. Biodiesel is not. Ensure that you can get biodiesel easily, or you’ll be driving around spewing out sulphur.

The veggie oil conversion isn’t that expensive, and would pay for itself, if you didn’t mind showing up at meetings smelling like french fries.

VW TDI engines are reknowned for their efficiency and convertability.

Give Darryl Hannah a call. She knows such things.

The answer isn’t biodiesel, it’s gasohol. Get a nice flex fuel car.

how about the new camry hybrid? big enough for the dogs and the synergy drive in the prius is proven technology

#29 – Electric? As is, not worth it.

We have had a Honda Insight for nearly six years that gets over 60 mpg. Our Civic hybrid gets around 45 mpg. How is that not worth it?

Also, I agree with #20. And no one mentions the depletion of topsoil, a most precious and irreplaceable resource.

http://www.footprintrecycling.com/

My mechanic referred me to this web site and its owner/president, Andy Cooper.

The owner of the shop said the other day, “It’s not a panacea, but it is a solution.” He’s madly attempting to get current with the ramifications of the fuel. He often asks me where I purchase biodiesel so he can give referrals to the many customers who are asking him questions.

I switched over to biodiesel in late June. Average price per gallon since has been $2.95. I drive a ‘91 Mercedes Turbo. The engine sounds great and it’s running very clean. But I’m getting slightly worse mileage. Likely due to a Turbo system air leak that needs to be fixed. Will likely top off the tank this weekend with regular diesel to give me a bit more power for a modest road trip to destinations without biodiesel.

If you purchase a used diesel, it’s recommended to change your gas filters for the first six months at least when you get your oil change.

I’m (sadly) surprised at the number of commentators who are conflating biodiesel with simple vegetable oil.

Biodiesel is made from vegetable oil (either waster or new). Most diesel-engined cars can run on it without much modification. Older cars may need to have some seals and hoses traded out for ones made of newer materials, but often even this isn’t needed. AFAIK, all new diesel-engined cars can be run on biodiesel. In Europe, biodiesel is available at the pumps just like gasoline and regular diesel.

Diesel-engined cars can run on straight vegetable oil. However, usually modifications are required, mainly to deal with the temperature sensivity of straight vegetable oil (i.e., it congeals at low temps). Kits often include extra tanks so that the car can run diesel or veggie oil and heaters to keep the veggie oil warm.

As to the overall energy/carbon/dollar picture, I have not seen numbers that make a clear case for yes or no longterm. I have seen plenty of numbers from different groups that _think_ they have convincing data, but nothing that has convinced me.

That said, if I drove much (I only have a two mile commute and often walk when I’m not biking or taking my 39 mpg AH Sprite), I’d probably run a small diesel pickup on biodiesel that I would purify myself because I like playing around with things like that.

Go for a VW TDI, if you can find one….you can easily get ~50mpg.

OT- *ilson- feel free to delete this if it is just too outre- but since this is a “household” thread in a way, I will introduce my own compelling dilemma. My downstairs toilet is running very slowly. I think I accidentally flushed a sponge or some seriously charred rotten bread into it, along with some paper towels when I ran out of TP. I don’t want to use really nasty commercial liquids, because if they don’t work, I am in a bigger mess than before. Advice anyone, apart from “call a plumber” or “get a toilet snake”? I offer this topic as an alternative to those who (like myself) don’t know anything about newer cars (1989 Toyota Camry here), but may have had to deal with plumbing issues.

O/T Ned on CNN, and with all the important issues to address Wolf wants to embarrass both Ned and his 19 year old daughter because she was unaffilitated the day of the primary and could not vote. What an ass I am to still watch that jerk.

Oh my God! Something I can write on as a certified expert!

Jane, if your primary concern is to buy a car that minimally impacts the environment, skip all the hybrids first. It’s not that hybrid technology doesn’t work, but that it’s an exceedingly complex way to arrive at fuel savings (and ALL of the hybrids I’ve driven — which is ALL of them — don’t deliver the mileage gains the EPA ratings would suggest). Instead stay simple and buy the smallest car you’re comfortable with.

By the way, hybrids are particularly inappropriate for non-urban areas like, say, coastal Oregon. Since the essence of hybrid fuel savings stems from scavenging power during braking — that is “stop and go” urban driving.

If you can stand the size and its somewhat awkward appearance, the Honda Fit drives spectacularly well, is extremely space efficient, gets terrific mileage and should be as reliable as, well, a Honda. Sure it runs on gasoline, but gas is a lot easier to find then bio-diesel.

Directly competitive to the Fit are the Toyota Yaris, Nissan Versa and Chevrolet Aveo. All have the pluses and minuses, all get very good fuel mileage, and all are cheap. But the Honda is the class of this dinky car field.

If you can’t stand a car that small, move up to the Honda Civic. It’s clearly the best subcompact car out there right now. I’d skip the Hybrid since the regular Civics are all excellent and get decent mileage without the expense or complexity. Of course the real Civic to buy is the Si model which has a 197-horsepower 2.0-liter engine, six-speed transmission and the best chassis ever stuck under a small front-drive car. It still gets good mileage and is a disgusting amount of fun to drive… but it won’t scream “minimal impact” like a hybrid or Fit.

If you can stand the constant hunt for fuel, then diesels are about to become a much, much better option. VW will be re-introducing its TDI diesels soon (early next year, I think) and they all drive well. But I’m suspicious of VW’s quality control these days. However if you can swing the bucks there are also new diesels coming from Mercedes which run very, very cleanly on low-sulfur fuel and should be sweet to drive. But the Mercedes are a way off. As is a new Mercedes diesel powered version of the Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Bio-diesel is fine if you wan to dedicate yourself to a lifestyle around finding recycled vegetable oil. But I’d go for a good, very efficient gas-fueled vehicle first or a latest generation conventional diesel second.

Of course, you could always just go for the 1970 Challenger convertible with a 383. There’s nothing minimal about that.

Jane, I’m still laughing over the “raging fuschia terror alert“.

I have a fave Non Sequitur comic strip that sits on my desk, it shows a man sitting on his porch reading an ‘Alert Level Color Chart’, his wife with a phone, all kinds of UFO’s landing with goofy little one eyed aliens marching towards them, and he’s saying to her: “Tell Homeland Security the closest I can come is fuchsia”.

Cracks me up.

Valley Girl @ 80

OT- *ilson- feel free to delete this if it is just too outre- but since this is a “household” thread in a way, I will introduce my own compelling dilemma. My downstairs toilet is running very slowly. I think I accidentally flushed a sponge or some seriously charred rotten bread into it, along with some paper towels when I ran out of TP. I don’t want to use really nasty commercial liquids, because if they don’t work, I am in a bigger mess than before. Advice anyone, apart from “call a plumber” or “get a toilet snake”? I offer this topic as an alternative to those who (like myself) don’t know anything about newer cars (1989 Toyota Camry here), but may have had to deal with plumbing issues.

snakes in a toilet

http://www.oregon.gov/ODA/do_r…..esel.shtml

I just can’t see what all the fuss about hybrids is. They get better mileage in the city, but on the highway they get worse mileage.

I’ve had a ‘97 Toyota Tercel for 9 years and 90,000 miles. It gets 33 city and 40 on the highway. Last year on vacation it got 51 mpg up in the Rockies (no fluke, it was 3 tanks worth. dry air, I guess). It doesn’t have great power, but enough. Small cars have great turning radii, are easy to park, and there’s plenty of room for me (99.5% of my driving is alone). I haven’t had any major repairs yet. People turn their noses up, but such people suck, and I have no complaints about the car.

Those hybrids are nice for folks who can afford them now, but down the line they will have expensive maintenance issues. And you should consider the environmental impact of disposal of all those heavy metals, or whatever goes into their technology.

For us po’ folks, I think economy cars used in moderation and kept for their lifetimes is the cheapest and most ecofriendly option. I think all of the noise about alternate fuels and hybrids is nice, in and of itself. But missing from the national discussion is economy cars, as if asking Americans to drive smaller vehicles is unthinkable. Kind of like national healthcare. It’s just presumed to be politically unfeasable, so it’s never discussed seriously.

valley girl – did you try a plunger?

twolf1- I thought it would only be a matter of time until that issue was mentioned!!! omigod people as so quick here. So, you’re saying snakes?

re #61: Bio Diesel is not a corn product; corn is relatively low in oil content. Bio Diesel is generally derived from Soy or Canola oils, as Soybeans and Rapeseed have much higher oil content(Rapeseed is the source of Canola oil; you would probably have trouble getting bottles labeled “Rapeseed oil” on the shelf in supermarkets, hence the name swap.)
My wife runs B20 (80% dino diesel, 20% bio diesel) in her 1996 E300D Benz when she can, and is quite happy with it. if you want to run a higher percentage of bio, you need to worry about things like gelling in cold climates. A diesel with gelled fuel isn’t much use.

Jane,
The technology around bio fuels is too new and changing daily with a lot of hype to boot. My advice is to find a car that meets your needs and budget and is in the top of ranks on fuel economy whether diesel or gas. In a few years, when you are ready to replace it, the blush and hype will have blown over and there may be some practical answers. I just bought a new Hyundai that I love. Good price and economy and fabulous warranty. The latest JD Powers initial quality report list Hyundai number 3 behind Lexus and Porsche. Everyone I know that has purchased one is happy. You can also get good value from Toyota or Honda but right now will pay a little more and get less warranty. My 2 cents.

plunger? absolutely!!! I have several plunger riffs in my repertoire, which stop the worst, but don’t get flushing back to normal.

zAmboni @ 80

Go for a VW TDI, if you can find one….you can easily get ~50mpg.

I’ve had my TDI for about a year, and the best tank was 47.2, the worst (at tempuratures around -20 degrees F) was about 39.

If you can find a Geo Metro with the 3 cylinder block and a 5-speed manual, you can get over 50 mpg.

Practically speaking, I vote hybrid. I have the Lexus 400h, which is oh so stylish when the poodles are out and about, but the Prius or the Ford Escape Hybrid are good options. Mostly, have fun checking them out…

There are hybrid versions of the Camry and Accord, but they are more for performance than mileage, and while their mileage will be very good for their class, they won’t parsimonious enough for you to do a jig every time you fill up. Maybe a few seconds of the Snoopy happy dance…

Valley Girl @ 81

OT- *ilson- feel free to delete this if it is just too outre- but since this is a “household” thread in a way, I will introduce my own compelling dilemma. My downstairs toilet is running very slowly. I think I accidentally flushed a sponge or some seriously charred rotten bread into it, along with some paper towels when I ran out of TP. I don’t want to use really nasty commercial liquids, because if they don’t work, I am in a bigger mess than before. Advice anyone, apart from “call a plumber” or “get a toilet snake”? I offer this topic as an alternative to those who (like myself) don’t know anything about newer cars (1989 Toyota Camry here), but may have had to deal with plumbing issues.

FWIW (and it isn’t worth much, VG) it ain’t the toast. Even badly charred toast dissolves fairly quickly even in cold water.

What it is (probably), is the paper toweling. Those things are specifically designed not to dissolve readily in water. US TP is designed to dissolve fairly readily.

Having diagnosed the problem, we come to the solution. Well, we would come to the solution, except that you specifically eliminated the only two solutions: get a snake and call a plumber.

I guess there is a third potential solution: find some person with a snake and strong enough ties of blood (and/or friendship) and do a Blanche duBois (or is it Scarlett O’Hara? I forget) bit.

BC

As a professional mechanic, I am going to stay out of this. I could go on and on over cost/benefit wrt diesel vs, gas, electric,hybrid etc . At this point my advice to Jane is , get something that suits your needs.There are hundreds of choices.Maybe a small SUV. Don’t overlook the Subaru’s. Diesels are getting better than they ever were but, They are generally more expensive to fix when they do break down and regular maintenance costs can be a bit higher as they hold more oil.

VG – hate to say it, but I’m thinking “snake”… ya know, the one with the cranky-handle thing…

Valley Girl @ 91

plunger? absolutely!!! I have several plunger riffs in my repertoire, which stop the worst, but don’t get flushing back to normal.

well, I’m by no means an expert but I would imagine your next tool is the dreaded snake.

VG, go get a lieberman, hold him by his ankles and plunge away. It may take several forceful thrusts ;)

VG: Do you have a basement or are you on a slab?

No jokes, y’all!

:-)

I vote E-85.

George W. Bushwa: “the foundation of our economy is strong”
Reality Check: “Reeling Ford to cut production”

Can’t do a screen capture here in the tall timber, but seeing those two blurps in lockstep on the msnbc homepage just made me spew.

WTF is this guy smokin’? Is he even in the same time-space continuum as the rest of sentient life?

Happy weekend, pups!

hang on… this toilet thing… the toilet is running or flushing slowly? if running the problem’s got to be in the tank with the flapper assembly… if slow, then you need the snake…

If you want to fart around with making your own biodiesel from used cooking oil, then buy any diesel vehicle. Otherwise, I think Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV’s) are the wave of the future. The ultimate would be a diesel PHEV with advanced emissions reductions, but they are a few years off.

If I could afford a new car, Id get a hybrid now and move to biodiesel in a few years after the technology gets better and oil prices have climbed high enough to make biodiesel an economical alternative to produce and sell on a large scale. At that point biodiesel will be a permanent fixture.

Yes, there are pitfalls of biosiesel: loss of soil and cropland; unwise substitution of fuel for food crops; and even more so, the potential development of genetically engineered biodiesel crops. (GE corn for ethanol is already being produced commercially in the US.) But there is work being done right now on biodiesel from algae, which looks very promising since algae apparently produces much more “fuel” oil than vegetative crops do, so the EROEI is much improved.

It also depends on your location and circumstances. In rural areas, I expect biodiesel to catch on much quicker, since there is already the diesel infrastructure there together with the capacity to procude lots of biodiesel on a local scale.

BC- okay, I have a virgin plumbing snake already at hand. And, I have used such before on other toilets. So, I will use it, based on your comments about paper toweling. Are you a scientist BTW? I gotta get this sorted out before my looming semester starts. Thanks.

OldCoastie @ 31

I’m waiting for someone to make a diesel/electric hybrid van that gets about 50mpg… good with the dogs and good on my poor old wrecked back!

It’s still a couple of years off at least, but keep an eye out for DaimlerChrysler’s plug-in hybrid Sprinter. A friend of mine (a German car fan) got the diesel version when it first became available here. It’s one of the European high-efficiency diesels; the thing is the size of a small school bus (at least it *seems* bigger than most minivans) and gets car-level gas mileage. If they actually produce the hybrid version, it’ll be even better.

The new Honda Civic really is revolutionary (for being a gas car). Its my 5th Honda and I’m blown away that it has as much power as it does but still gets great MPG. They managed to up the power AND the MPG, go figure, HONDA technology. It wasn’t the Motor Trend Car of the Year b/c of Payola, it’s really killer.

OldCoastie- running slowly- not “running”- I’ve been through the latter before. And, thanks others who seem to concur on BC’s snake advice. Much appreciated.

VG wrt slow toilet. Most hardware stores have a rubber device that screws onto the end of a garden hose that expands to seal the toilet where the water goes down. Then the water pressure from the hose power flushes the system. I have had generally good experiences using them.

Oh, Dr. Bong- slab. I think the snake is my best hope. Thanks all.

Valley Girl @ 105

BC- okay, I have a virgin plumbing snake already at hand. And, I have used such before on other toilets. So, I will use it, based on your comments about paper toweling. Are you a scientist BTW? I gotta get this sorted out before my looming semester starts. Thanks.

Guilty as charged (Statistical science, which allows me to dabble in everything. Including plumbing).

BC

I get 50MPG running my Volkswagen Jetta TDI on Biodiesel. In Los Angeles, specifically Marina del Rey and Pacific Palisades, there are gas stations that sell B99 biodiesel at the pump ($3.29/g in MDR, $3.49/g in PP). Often in the last six months, the B99 has been cheaper than even the cheapest gasoline at these same stations.

The B99 that these USA Petroleum stations sell is made from waste walnut oil from the Choacoella Valley. Eg, its a local oil source that would otherwise be thrown away were it not being used for BioD production. Credit is owed to the local biodiesel coop for proving to the gas station owners that there is demand for BioD in the area.

I highly recommend a diesel vehicle running on biod — just buy the diesel car OUTSIDE of California. Diesel cars in California usually sell for a premium over blue book value because of diesel’s better fuel economy. I could still sell the Jetta TDI I bought a year and a half ago in Oregon for more than what I paid!

Busted- ah- a new solution. I have a great hardware store nearby… always good to know about the alternatives!

twolf1 @ 98

Valley Girl @ 91

plunger? absolutely!!! I have several plunger riffs in my repertoire, which stop the worst, but don’t get flushing back to normal.

well, I’m by no means an expert but I would imagine your next tool is the dreaded snake.

SNAKES IN A DRAIN…..

Energy is everywhere. How we capture, store and use it is the question. Oil, electricity, steam, I’m hearing all the good answers but the dimension of implementation remains to be seen. Since we eat carbohydrates then we can also metabolize the waste. That’s pretty sustainable sounding to me. The middle east can produce olive oil instead.

Not that we can’t go over the top and capture environmental forces such as wind, lightning and the tides. It is up to those who are up to the task to design, fabricate and produce the solution.

The biodeisel hybrid sounds just about right for the next phase. It is just one solution. Photovoltaic arrays are another. I’m researching a 5MW grid tie for a local enclave. Best case, 10 year break even at .10/KWh. I just dont have the 25 mil. Yet. Then I’ll buy one of the new Tesla Roadsters. They even have a blog!

I run bio-d and love it. Have a 1982 Mercedes 300D turbo–it looks great, Jane. The station wagon version is even cooler, and will have room for the poodles. Expect to pay around 6 to 7 large for one in good condition. The good news is that they’re indestructible, and usually well maintained.

Here’s where I get my fuel. Cool as shit.

Hey Jane – Funny you should mention this, I was going to work it into some commet off topic soon. But now I don’t have too! Anyway, this will be brief cause I’m at work and sorry if someone has mentioned it since I won’t have time to read all the comments till tonight. Anyway there is a guy here in LA who has started a company that converts the diesel Mercedes into biodiesel or just plain oil burners. His business is called “Lovecrafts” and he has a video on Youtube. If someone else doesn’t link it I will find it and link it when I get home. Check it out though – he has some great things to say and of course the political angle is that Big Oil wants to shut it down. I can’t wait till tonight to read everyones takes on this…

Problem with a snake for a toilet… Can really scar the porcelain if yer not careful. Unless you want to unseat the toilet – another project in it’s own right.

See Bustednuckles @109. That might be the least potentially damaging course of action.

Jane -

I think it’s a bit too early to be considering diesel (bio- or other) in the American market. Mercedes and I think Peugeot make great ones, but they aren’t sold here.

When it’s time for me to change, not for a couple of years yet, I hope, I’m considering a Lexus hybrid 400h SUV. I need the cargo space and I also own a five year (well almost six year) old Lexus 300ES I got for my wife used which has proved to be a fantastic, and I mean fantastic, vehicle and utterly reliable. My sister in-law owns the previous model, the 300h and loves it. It’s a beautiful car.

I always try to buy late model used cars and let someone else take the hit on the first two or three years of depreciation. You should able to get one for less than a new crappola gas something or other. The hybrid gets and average of 31.4 mpg city and highway, over 30 in the city and in the mid thirties on the highway, which ain’t bad for a car that can carry stuff like three dogs, for instance.

Right now I also own a Scion XB, it’s really cute and economical and carries an amazing amount of stuff, but the Lexus is bigger, much more comfy and will get even better mileage.

Prairie Sunshine @ 101

George W. Bushwa: “the foundation of our economy is strong”
Reality Check: “Reeling Ford to cut production”

Can’t do a screen capture here in the tall timber, but seeing those two blurps in lockstep on the msnbc homepage just made me spew.

WTF is this guy smokin’? Is he even in the same time-space continuum as the rest of sentient life?

Happy weekend, pups!

Republican logic is that “the economy” is doing great (ignore the exaggeration for a moment), which relies on the deception of averages. To illustrate:

A Republican and a Democrat are at a bar, when Bill Gates walks in.

“Yay!” says the Republican, “We’re rich!”

“What do you mean?” asks the Democrat.

“The average wealth of the people in this bar just went way up!”

No matter how loudly Republicans say we should all be happy with “the economy” (which sounds suspiciously like Bush’s petulance that the Iraqis aren’t more grateful), people (correctly) judge their circumstances based on how they’re doing; “the economy” only enters into it when it benefits me.

(Also, the people Bush talks to are doing very well in this economy, so it’s no suprise they think it’s going great.)

Ed*ard Teller wrote –
I’ve had my TDI for about a year, and the best tank was 47.2, the worst (at tempuratures around -20 degrees F) was about 39.

If you can find a Geo Metro with the 3 cylinder block and a 5-speed manual, you can get over 50 mpg.

If you can’t get more than 45MPG regularly with a Volkswagen TDI engine – even in cold weather – you’re really wasting the potential of that engine. I highly suggest you read the ‘fuel economy’ threads on http://www.tdiclub.com.

pete @
76

how about the new camry hybrid? big enough for the dogs and the synergy drive in the prius is proven technology

I believe the Camry hybrid gets less than 40mpg; the gas version is rated in the mid-30’s. Hardly seems worth it.
Also, some blue-sky here, but I think the best bio-fuel crop is hemp, doesn’t need heavy fertilizing, doesn’t deplete the soil, and the oil is better suited for use as fuel. I have no sources to back up those claims…
But, clearly, a hemp crop has many other uses.

JB2 @ 20

Biodiesel is a fraud. The energy returned on the energy invested is negligible.

ACTUALLY, you’re wrong about that. If you use biodiesel to fuel the vehicles that harvest and transport the crops, and so forth, you actually pollute less and use less fossil fuel energy than if you used gasoline — and certainly less than if you used diesel (which, of course, most of our trucks and large equipment use).

You’re obviously thinking of the Omnivore’s Dilemma argument, which is that corn is the “SUV of vegetables” — but that’s fairly irrelevant, because B100 can be made from a number of non-corn vegetables that are lower on the energy consumption foodchain. Plus, once aquatic stocks are developed (so that biodiesel vegies can be grown hydroponically), you have yourself a sustainable resource.

tpres2000 @122:

But, clearly, a hemp crop has many other uses.

I like the way you think!

:-)

VG (and Dr Bong),

Good point about the porcelain bowl. Cover the snake with about 3 feet of vinyl tubing, and it won’t scar the bowl.

The water-hose-in-the-drain tool works okay, but it’s not a one-person project, and making sure the hose is properly oriented if you go through the bowl is a nontrivial task.

VG, if you choose to go this route look hard around the bowl for a drain clean-out. It will be a Y sticking just above floor level and blocked with a threaded plug. Go in through the clean-out and thoroughly seal all the downstream drains with towels.

Good luck.

BC

Kelven #117:

Here’s the link:

http://www.lovecraftbiofuels.com/

Last I heard, he was doing quite a business.

Jeff Boatright!!! you have a Sprite!!!?
my favorite car of all times … my first car was a bugeye and to this day I dream of looking out the window and seeing it’s smiling face!

My bro has the Lexus hybrid SUV and adores it … and the poodles would have room

These days I have a 93 Subaru from my NH days (only thing for getting over the two mountains to work there in the winter) but have not even registered it here … buses are my new mode and I love it.

twolf1 @ 85

Valley Girl @ 80

OT- *ilson- feel free to delete this if it is just too outre- but since this is a “household” thread in a way, I will introduce my own compelling dilemma. My downstairs toilet is running very slowly. I think I accidentally flushed a sponge or some seriously charred rotten bread into it, along with some paper towels when I ran out of TP. I don’t want to use really nasty commercial liquids, because if they don’t work, I am in a bigger mess than before. Advice anyone, apart from “call a plumber” or “get a toilet snake”? I offer this topic as an alternative to those who (like myself) don’t know anything about newer cars (1989 Toyota Camry here), but may have had to deal with plumbing issues.

snakes in a toilet

God, I wish I’d said that!

You said:

Ed*ard Teller @ 72

Willow Weasel @ 64

Other people have mentioned the sustainability and net return on energy of biodiesel and ethanol. As it stands, corn and soy beans are not winners, plus having a competition for corn for both food and energy is not such a good situation.

Surprisingly, willow trees have a great return on energy for ethanol production. I’d suggest getting a flex fuel plugin hybrid, if you can find one.

Read _The Omnivore’s Dilemma_, by Michael Pollen. You’ll never feel the same way about corn again.

You don’t have to use corn for biodiesel. In fact most manufacturers of the stuff don’t.

Prairie Sunshine @ 101

I vote E-85.

George W. Bushwa: “the foundation of our economy is strong”
Reality Check: “Reeling Ford to cut production”

Can’t do a screen capture here in the tall timber, but seeing those two blurps in lockstep on the msnbc homepage just made me spew.

Just for the hell of it I grabbed a screen shot for you. It is funny sad isn’t it.

Just got off my Zetor 3320 tractor and the sweet smell of home made biodiesel. I say do it for a number of reasons – particularly if you whomp it up yourself:

-1- Takes used vegetable oil out of the trash cycle

-2- Less noxious emissions

-3- Cheaper, cleaner fuel

-4- Most importantly – living the culture of do-it-your selfness. Doing things like this takes some of the mystery out of the system.

Find a good teacher/guide book, follow instructions exactly, and enjoy an added measure of self-sufficiency.

T-Boy

Putting in my two cents on hybrids:
They do get better mileage in the city than on the highway, but even on the highway they do respectably well. My ‘02 Prius has been as high as 60 highway, and it’s averaging nearly 48mpg. That said, to get the best mileage, you need to have a light foot on the gas – leadfoot cuts your mileage quite dramatically! [I believe the newer models have more horsepower, and you do want that. The older models, like mine, have real problems on grades exceeding 6 percent (interstate maximum grade).]

I don’t think the plug-in hybrids will take off in cities as much as they could, because apartments don’t have the outlets available, and the few electric outlets I’ve seen in parking areas are for the older electrics. Advocates of plug-ins need to consider this part of it: like hydrogen, the availability isn’t there yet.

Shez @ 130. That is classic. Almost as funny as Bush on a Harley yesterday = 2 All American overvalued pieces of S**T.

Aberoham @ 121

Ed*ard Teller wrote –
I’ve had my TDI for about a year, and the best tank was 47.2, the worst (at tempuratures around -20 degrees F) was about 39.

If you can find a Geo Metro with the 3 cylinder block and a 5-speed manual, you can get over 50 mpg.

If you can’t get more than 45MPG regularly with a Volkswagen TDI
engine – even in cold weather – you’re really wasting the potential of that engine. I highly suggest you read the ‘fuel economy’ threads on http://www.tdiclub.com.

Aberoham,

Great web site. Thanks for the link!

Has anyone noticed the extremely high cost of diesel in comparison to regular gasoline? It is now over 50 cents higher per gallon in my area. Up until about a year ago I don’t recall ever seeing diesel higher than regular.

I had considered going with the VW TDI diesel engine (maybe in the new Rabbit?) but when calculating cost-per-gallon versus difference in MPG it doesn’t seem all that worthwhile. The TDI is one of the best diesel engines, almost indistinguishable these days from a regular engine. And I understand they can be converted rather easily to work with biodiesel.

Whether it’s regular or diesel or jet fuel, it’s going to be increasingly more expensive to use over the coming years. Really it’s all about MPG if you’re using any form of petroleum. For me it’s a question of going to something that’s completely petroleum-free such as biodiesel, or strongly considering a hybrid. Maybe steam power is the wave of the future?

Redshift, another read today, the Mpls Tribune’s columnist Doug Grow writing on Northwest Airlines’ layoff kit which included a pamphlet of 101 ways to survive. One of which was don’t be embarrassed to dig thru trash dumpsters. The worker quoted said when people at the meeting read it they had tears in their eyes. NWA’s excuse was they hadn’t gotten around to reading what was going in the packet. Too busy going to those Bush-Cheney-Pawlenty-Mark Kennedy-Michele Bachmann fundraisers, no doubt.

So, OT, I went and tried the snake. Tried several times. I got it pretty far in, but it kept sticking past a certain point, and didn’t help the drain run any faster. If the pressure hose is not a one-person show, then that’s out. Looks like I’m going to have to go to my favorite hardware store tomorrow, and get some do-it-yourself advice. Unless I can think of something in the meantime that will eat up paper towels. I have tried bleach. May try borax or dishwashing gel as a last resort. But thanks all. I really do appreaciate the help. (oh, and BC there appears to be no Y-shaped drain option, and I am def. not into taking the bowl off its seatings!)

Hayduke @ 133

Shez @ 130. That is classic. Almost as funny as Bush on a Harley yesterday = 2 All American overvalued pieces of S**T.

Hayduke, did he fall off of it and bust up his smirkin’ Murkin face?

al-Scooter @ 126

Kelven #117:

Here’s the link:

http://www.lovecraftbiofuels.com/

Last I heard, he was doing quite a business.

The one-tank system that Lovecraft uses in their conversions is controversial. He gets a lot of press:

http://www.latimes.com/feature…..3250.story

But..

“In just about every online forum regarding vegetable oil conversions, debate is heated over issues such as one- or two-tank systems, the proper temperature for heating vegetable oil to start a diesel engine”

The one biofuel expert I know has opined that Lovecraft’s Friedman, with his single tank conversion, is going to have a really hard time backing up his money back guarantee over the long term..

Prairie- do have a link to the column? I’d like to read it. Thx

I run B-50 biodiesel in the sailboat, which has a three cylinder Universal 25 hp engine. 15 gals lasts me a year and it smells better and doesn’t degrade over the winter, either, which is a big problem with petrodiesel. Anyone who has ever had to have a fuel tank cleaned out from rotten diesel with algae growing in it will understand.

I also have a friend who drives around in biodiessel fueled Hummer. Of course, he has a big ranch to deal with so it sort of makes sense.

Dammmit!! Where’s a oscillation overthruster or a Mr. Fusion when you need it most?

All kidding aside, buy a Civic.

On the news last night I heard you can now get a 2K plus tax break if you buy a hybrid SUV that gets worse mileage than a Toyota Corolla.

Where’s the fairness in that?

“calling all wingnuts”

It would be rude of me to disappoint. :)

Oil = Ancient sunlight (like a battery)
Biodiesel = Fraction of annual allotment of solar energy

Oil supports 6.5 billion humans (food, transportation, goods).
The ONLY renewable energy source, the sun) can support 2 billion humans.

Petrochemically enhanced farms (fertilizers, pesticides) produce inordinate quantities of food (e.g., 130 bushels of corn per acre as opposed to the natural 30 bushels).

Now, assuming we are on the other side of the 4 billion single generational die-off, what do we want to do with our crops?

Eat them… or burn them?

Back to lurking…

George @ 143

On the news last night I heard you can now get a 2K plus tax break if you buy a hybrid SUV that gets worse mileage than a Toyota Corolla.

Where’s the fairness in that?

Who said life was fair?

– Jimmy Carter

Biodiesel 1

Biodiesel 2

Biodiesel 3

Griesel

More than you ever wanted to know about diesels

Aberoham #139:

I’m an agnostic about Lovecraft’s methods, though I have a friend who’s a fleet maintenance supe for one of the local utilities who doesn’t see an issue with it.

Still, as you suggest, caveat emptor.

If Jane’s into leasing a new vehicle, then serious modifications are off the table in any case.

OK, you terlet-aces, I wouldn’t have brought this up in front of God & Everybody, but with VG as my shepherd . . .

I bought two new commodes last year to replace the 1986 originals. The one in my guest bath, I just closed the door on for a few months — and when I finally went in there to prep for an actual guest, I found a funky-water-ring that NAWTHING I’ve tried will budge (and it’s even city water!).

Please advise.

Correct me if I’m way off base here, but I think the limiting factors in biodiesel are going to be degradation of farmland, salinity from irrigation, and availability of water (falling water tables and such).

lotus: CLR

lotus – pumice stone

I do get pissed at people who knock ethanol and biodiesel. They may not be magic faerie energy solutions but they’re better than the devil’s excrement. It’s no coincidence that most of the oil in the world comes from areas of conflict. As far as I know America has never sent troops to foreign lands to die for crops.

Lotus- so funny– what color is this ring? Maybe it’s some kind of calcium deposit (whiteish) and there are “products” to dissolve. If brown, then rust, and “products” are available also. Have you been to your local/ best local hardware store to ask for advice? And, what have you tried so far?

http://www.jelmar.com/CLRbath.asp

Oh, I’m so glad I got here in time!

Jane, I lurve my VW Passat TDI wagon! I think they won’t have this model again until we get lower sulfur fuel, but the Jetta wagon is still here.

My Passat gets 35-45 mpg; drives better than any car I’ve had in way too many years of driving, including my ZX; has some gizmo that keeps you from drifting to the center when you go around a curve; has air bags everywhere; has every bell and whistle I could ever want (moon roof, on-board computer, great sound system, etc.) and it’s quite sleek looking.

Cost for this beautiful package? $27,000. Less than my last mini-van.

Oh, it gets paws up from our nine Golden Retrievers.

If Kobe and the girls need confirmation, Rocket and Scurry will be happy to fill them in.

Bio-diesel (20%) is available here in Austin at 13 stations now, one Bio-Willie and 12 Shell stations.

…and elbow grease

:-)

…and if that don’t work,

‘EAR!

what are we today? hints from heloise?

what happened to those margaritas?! ;~D

And, what have you tried so far?

ALL of the above, boohoo-ey.

puppethead @ 135

The TDI is one of the best diesel engines, almost indistinguishable these days from a regular engine. And I understand they can be converted rather easily to work with biodiesel.

THERE IS NO CONVERSION REQUIRED FOR A STANDARD DIESEL ENGINE TO BE ABLE TO RUN ON BIODIESEL!

At best, if you have a really old diesel, you may need to replace rubberized fuel lines with newer types of lines. But that’s _it_, and its not that expensive. (maybe a $50 or $100 job)

Running SVO, “straight vegtible oil”, requires conversion costing somewhere in the range of $500 to $1000 or so. But that conversion mostly has to do with the fuel tanks and delivery system and almost NOTHING to do with the actual diesel engine itself.

Steve Rhodes @ 3

But you should also look into the Ford hybrid.

I looked at the Escape and it had considerably less cargo (dog) space than the Passat and Jetta.

Boy, those Bill O’Reilly supporters and those yellow ribbon on the Jeep clowns know how to treat our men in blue with some great respect.

The continued collpse of the self-righteous right.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0818.html

-GSD

Valley Girl – Call me a coward, but I like to call a plumber when I have plumbing adventures.

lotus – maybe write the manufacturer? I dunno… sounds SERIOUS! shut off the water, stop up bowl and fill bowl with lots and lots of bleach?

OfT:
On Tweety, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, a former hawk on Iraq, said we are “losing a battalion a month” in Iraq in terms of killed and wounded. Obviously, the majority of these casualites are the wounded.

Aberoham @ 160

puppethead @ 135

The TDI is one of the best diesel engines, almost indistinguishable these days from a regular engine. And I understand they can be converted rather easily to work with biodiesel.

THERE IS NO CONVERSION REQUIRED FOR A STANDARD DIESEL ENGINE TO BE ABLE TO RUN ON BIODIESEL!

Exactly. All youhave to do is drive up to a Bio-Diesel pump and fillerup.

Bong honey, the CLR PARTICULARLY didn’t do diddly. Alas.

li’l dog – and the escape hybrid had less room than my Vibe/Matrix clone! (and worse gas mileage! and lower towing capacity!)

Fern- ha ha- something in my blood (I think it’s genetic) makes me a first-, second- and third option do-it-yourselfer. Then again, I had no hesitation about calling AAA today when I locked my keys in the car upon arriving home (and locked myself out of the house thus). I have not locked my keys in my car ever before!!!!

OT to this thread but C&L has video up of Edwards campaigning for Ned, with this quote

I do not think Lieberman should be running. I do not believe he should be running as an Independent. I mean, if he ran as a Democrat, he asked Democratic voters to vote for him, they chose someone else, you know, we have to show respect for the people who voted in the primary. So, I would go further than just being for Lamont. I do not think that Lieberman should be running.

I’ve thought of that, OC. But here’s the extra twist — I have city water but not sewer. Will that much bleach piss off mess up all the li’l enzymey guys at work in my septic tank, y’think?

Biodiesel, especially when made from used oil, is just about the greenest you can get. Compare the 40 mpg of even the best gas hybrid with the 40 mpg of the new, turbo-diesel engines — the same 40 miles on the road translates into dramatically lower emissions.

The downside is, to make your own 100% biodiesel takes special equipment, skills, and reliable access to good oil. Friends of mine who have tried it have found it to be harder than it sounds, mainly because they can’t get good oil. Franchise fast food places tend to have contracts with renderers to take their oil, and mom-and-pop places (at least around here) let the oil get really dirty before they change it. Or they put stretchers in it, which makes it hard to process into biodiesel.

My advice would be to look into biodiesel co-ops in your area. If there are any, and they are interested in new members, there is no reason not to go biodiesel. If there aren’t, then a gas hybrid might be the easiest thing.

nah – bleach won’t be good for septic, lotus… the only thing that might help that is to leave the bleach for a week – cholorine evaporates, so most of the enzyme killer would be gone…

OldCoastie @ 168

li’l dog – and the escape hybrid had less room than my Vibe/Matrix clone! (and worse gas mileage! and lower towing capacity!)

Ah, you looked further than the cargo space. I just opened the rear hatch, looked in, and thought “Nuh, uh.”

Question: why are people using these slashes? For example: there’s

I’ve been seeing this for several days I think…Is this something new? I’m just wondering!

Ask Click and Clack
( Cartalk on NPR)
This is exactly the sort of question they excell at not mention having an enjoyable riff on.

siun @ 127

Jeff Boatright!!! you have a Sprite!!!?
my favorite car of all times … my first car was a bugeye and to this day I dream of looking out the window and seeing it’s smiling face!

Got busy and missed this one.
I literally grew up in a bug eye. My dad raced it on weekends . sometimes He and my mother would go on ralley’s and stuff my baby seat between the two front seats.
I have had a 64 Sprite for 20 years now.
You’d think it was a frikkin Jaguar for what they get for parts now.

Lotus- an untried possibility- get some really fine grade steel wool to scour off the ring. That will leave metal marks, but won’t permanently damage the porcelain. Then, use agent “Bar Keepers Friend” to remove the metal marks.

lotus @ 171

I’ve thought of that, OC. But here’s the extra twist — I have city water but not sewer. Will that much bleach piss off mess up all the li’l enzymey guys at work in my septic tank, y’think?

like Jomoeba?

VG – Try your snake at the clean out pipe. It’s outside and should look something like this (you need to take the cap off)

http://www.fakerock.com/images/CLEAN OUT.jpg

Beer-thirty y’all (Bong-thiry at my house).

cheers!

ccmask @ 173

Question: why are people using these slashes? For example: there’s

I’ve been seeing this for several days I think…Is this something new? I’m just wondering!

Do you mean the strike throughs? Like that this? :)

(Bong-thiry at my house).

See… I’m already slurrin’!

:-)

Thass what I figured, OC.

Wull, when y’all come visit, you’ll maybe enjoy a li’l “country” look here ‘n’ there, right? Get you likkered up enough and you’ll forgive my [snort] “housekeeping”?

puppethead @
152

I do get pissed at people who knock ethanol and biodiesel. They may not be magic faerie energy solutions but they’re better than the devil’s excrement. It’s no coincidence that most of the oil in the world comes from areas of conflict. As far as I know America has never sent troops to foreign lands to die for crops.

The US-Mexican War 1846-48 was about acquiring territory for slavery-produced crops …

Coz- thanks- I’ll look around. I am in a condo, so I’m not sure that each unit has a clean out pipe. But I will check. ~)

Cozumel @ 180

VG – Try your snake at the clean out pipe. It’s outside and should look something like this (you need to take the cap off)

http://www.fakerock.com/images/CLEAN OUT.jpg

ARRG, bad link. Cut and paste the URL, that should work.

grs @ 33

I hate to be a blog whore, but I made a nice post about biodiesel on my blog back in April with some good resources.

If Jane solicited information on that very topic, isn’t it more like blog-dating?

lotus @ 148

OK, you terlet-aces, I wouldn’t have brought this up in front of God & Everybody, but with VG as my shepherd . . .

I bought two new commodes last year to replace the 1986 originals. The one in my guest bath, I just closed the door on for a few months — and when I finally went in there to prep for an actual guest, I found a funky-water-ring that NAWTHING I’ve tried will budge (and it’s even city water!).

Please advise.

Lotus: We had this problem, too. Lysol has about six varieties of potty cleaners, but look for the one that has a rust remover in it.

I had even used a pumice stone to try to get the stains out, and this took care of it almost instantly.

I first saw it at Costco, but didn’t need six bottles, so went looking at the regular grocery store.

No, Jenny, I mean these \ like in #11. Or is it just my computer….

I guess nobody cares that I had breakfast this morning with RevDeb. I think that’s bigger than Snakes on a Plane!

ccmask @ 188

No, Jenny, I mean these \ like in #11. Or is it just my computer….

Oh yeah I noticed that too. I think they were aiming for italics and missed.

Coz- I figured it out already- I don’t think the new link was any better- I’ve had the same problem before, so I knew…

VG,
one last desperate try.

RV’s have chemicals they put down the toilet to break down the stuff in there. Esp. paper products. also generally available at most hardware stores.

Wow, li’l dog — that’s the only one of all these I haven’t tried. Thanks! Report will follow.

Snakes on a Plane!

Jane

I’ve driven my Prius more than 44,000 miles in 15 months – it’s an excellent road car, fold down rear seat holds two road bikes or 3 standard poodles. I’ve averaged 46 mpg, and it pisses off rethuglicans like you wouldn’t believe.

ccmask @ 175

Question: why are people using these slashes? For example: there’s

I’ve been seeing this for several days I think…Is this something new? I’m just wondering!

those slashes are an artifact that WordPress somehow inserts in some comments that got trapped in moderation — the tech whizzes are working to eradicate this problem …

Jim Shirk @ 197

Jane

I’ve driven my Prius more than 44,000 miles in 15 months – it’s an excellent road car, fold down rear seat holds two road bikes or 3 standard poodles. I’ve averaged 46 mpg, and it pisses off rethuglicans like you wouldn’t believe.

Ding Ding Ding!
Just for the last part alone.

meta @ 194

Snakes on a Plane!

heh. I have nothing else to contribute to this thread. Nada. :) I’ll just keep on riding my bike and leaving my Volvo in the garage unless absolutely necessary…

Jenny from the Blog @ 191

I guess nobody cares that I had breakfast this morning with RevDeb. I think that’s bigger than Snakes on a Plane!

Well, tell!

*ilson46201 @ 185

The US-Mexican War 1846-48 was about acquiring territory for slavery-produced crops …

That was a war for territory, not control of crops themselves. I guess the Spanish-American war maybe, sphere of influence and all that. Or was it the sugar and rum trade…

I guess nobody cares that I had breakfast this morning with RevDeb. I think that’s bigger than Snakes on a Plane!

Well I DO TOO, Jenny! Here, let’s walk outta the privy and get us a drink, and you tell me all about it!

Valley Girl @ 193

Coz- I figured it out already- I don’t think the new link was any better- I’ve had the same problem before, so I knew…

Good luck! ; )

My second car was a 1974 Simca. I loved that damn car. I filled the tank once a month. I lived in Manhattan and it was so easy to park. It was soooo tiny. One night, on a binge in the village, I forgot where I parked it and never saw or heard from it again. I was so bummed out.

I’m not a big fan of ethanol or biodiesel as a large-scale means of fueling transportation. In a world where famine still occurs, having energy and food needs in such direct competition makes me squeamish.

Example: Brazil has replaced about 40% of its petroleum-based auto fuels w/ ethanol, most produced by conversion of sugar cane (with conversion energy provided by burning the cane husks). As a result of this, and the conversion of most Brazilian cars so that they can run on gas/ethanol blends, Brazil has declared energy independence from the Middle East. However, the downside is twofold. First, sugar cane requires vast plantations — you know, where the Amazon rainforest used to be. Second, Brazil used to be the world’s largest exporter of sugar. Because of Brazil’s new, large internal consumption of sugar cane to produce ethanol, world supply has gone down and spot prices of sugar have doubled in the last 5 years.

In the US we use corn (mostly) for ethanol generation. But production of ethanol via corn takes lots of acreage, even with high US yields. If I remember correctly, using one gallon of ethanol per week works out to about the same consumption of corn as the diet of an average American. So if you fill ye olde SUV with 20 gallons of 25% ethanol/75% gas per week, you end up consuming 5 times more corn as fuel than the avg American does in his or her diet. This added demand for corn will inevitably end up affecting lots of food prices. Lots of foods have corn syrup, corn meal, etc. as ingredients. In addition, corn is used as feedstock for poultry and livestock (inefficient way to grow protein!), so no more cheap McChickens with McBacon on a McCornBread roll (whatever — I don’t do fast food anymore). Oh, and some farmers will replant the back 40 to take advantage of higher corn prices — so other crop prices (wheat?) will rise as their supply goes down….

What holds for ethanol probably is similar for biodiesel, although I doubt the effects on food prices and supplies will be so dramatics. One hope is that algae may eventually provide a good source of biodiesel, but that’s a while off.

Just my $0.02.

Lotusss, you clearly need more houseguests.

Jenny and ccmask- that is a weird problem, and I don’t know what is going on. Comment #11 was trapped in moderation for some reason, and for reasons that I don’t understand, right now backslashes seem to be added to apostrophes when comments in mod are accessed. I noted this problem in post that I put in mod myself, and TRex said that he had experienced the same thing. Everytime that comment of mine is refreshed in mod, new backslashes are added. I experienced this problem a few months back, but it went away. Now it is back. Apparently it is a WordPress glitch, as I’m sure that TRex and I use different browsers and different OSs etc. Frustrating!!!!

Oh, thank Jeebus — another Volvo I can shelter with when BC or whoever that was gets crankin’ on the subjeck agin!

. . . and your little dog, too @ 199

Jenny from the Blog @ 191

I guess nobody cares that I had breakfast this morning with RevDeb. I think that’s bigger than Snakes on a Plane!

Well, tell!

Wellllll…. It so happens she is here visiting her mom who lives near me and so we met at a little cafe near the beach this morning. She is delightful and her mom is adorable (she looks a bit like Lauren Bacall). RevDeb showed me pics from Yearly Kos of some of the firepups. I see that Pach is decidedly youthful!

er… that’s all. Oh, I had a scrambled egg and english muffin.

Thanks for askin’, Little Dog!

Jenny from the Blog @ 190

I guess nobody cares that I had breakfast this morning with RevDeb. I think that’s bigger than Snakes on a Plane!

I care deeply. I had dinner with RevDeb once – ain’t she great company? But I must say, since I am going to see it shortly, I hope Snakes on a Plane is better!

Meta: I was thinking the same thing, lol. Maybe we should all show up at once. Unexpected, of course.

lotus @ 201

I guess nobody cares that I had breakfast this morning with RevDeb. I think that’s bigger than Snakes on a Plane!

Well I DO TOO, Jenny! Here, let’s walk outta the privy and get us a drink, and you tell me all about it!

hee hee. Well, I’m going to the next YKos and can’t wait to meet you all!

Jenny! Give it up! Where did you go? What did you talk about? How is RevDeb doing?

Valley Girl @ 81

Okay, here’s the scoop. I had the same toilet trouble. First, I tried baking soda and vinegar. Some improvement (let it sit for a long time).

Then came the plumber who snaked, removed the toilet, adjusted the flow, tried to find a replacement to fit but couldn’t, snaked again, all to no avail.

Then, they called in the best plumber in town. He took out a pocket knife and scraped along the little entry hole at the very front of the bowl. Then he looked at me with serious intent.

“Do you flush after you pee?” he asked.

I blushed.

“Well…um…” I stammered, “…I’ve been trying to be more environmentally friendly, you see – I mean I’m thinking about buying a biodiesel and everything – so, um…”

“So you flush in the morning and leave the pee sit there at night?” he surmised.

“Um…yep,” I confessed.

“We see it all the time,” he explained. “Calcium buildup. Worse if you take vitamins or certain medication. Pour a couple of cups of bleach in the bowl, lock the room to keep the kids and animals out, and let it sit overnight. Should do the trick.”

…and it did. But explaining to my landlords why they’d required the services of two plumbers. (blush)

op99 @ 209

Jenny from the Blog @ 190

I guess nobody cares that I had breakfast this morning with RevDeb. I think that’s bigger than Snakes on a Plane!

I care deeply. I had dinner with RevDeb once – ain’t she great company? But I must say, since I am going to see it shortly, I hope Snakes on a Plane is better!

Yes, I think the lovely, humble and gracious Deb would never deign to compete with SOAP. (acronym for you know what). :)

Yes I do, meta, but just give me fair warning, or you might get a surprise . . .

Valleygirl: I noticed it now in about 4 comments of posters I am not familiar with. At first, I thought it was a cult.

Car people, that special breed, told me to buy a Toyota if I wanted a hybrid. Toyota seems to be pretty good manufacturing hybrids. I recently looked at the Camry hybrid but settled on the Honda Accord. I just don’t drive enough to justify the few miles that it saves.

John Casper @ 165

OfT:
On Tweety, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, a former hawk on Iraq, said we are “losing a battalion a month” in Iraq in terms of killed and wounded. Obviously, the majority of these casualites are the wounded.

I know Barry McCaffrey is a grumpy old conservative, but Dog, I’m in love with him today.

He totally gave the PNAC Wayne Downing the smackdown.

If I had to choose a dichotomey in politics, it would be fearless truth-tellers vs liars and equivocators.

ccmask @ 212

Meta: I was thinking the same thing, lol. Maybe we should all show up at once. Unexpected, of course.

I’m not telling.

SOAP? you mean MFSONMFP !

meta @ 212

Jenny! Give it up! Where did you go? What did you talk about? How is RevDeb doing?

meta, see above for details about scrambled eggs. But Deb wanted me to tell everyone hello and she is dying to get back home and check in with the firepups! She’ll be back east on Monday….

*ilson46201 @ 220

SOAP? you mean MFSONMFP !

Well, I’m too polite to say that. BWAHAHA!

Lotus try one of those Mr. Clean eraser things. I also had luck with those plastic scrubs you use for pans.

Too Embarassed To Say

707! good one.

lotus @ 217

Yes I do, meta, but just give me fair warning, or you might get a surprise . . .

??????!!???!!?????

Jenny from the Blog @ 210

Wellllll…. It so happens she is here visiting her mom who lives near me and so we met at a little cafe near the beach this morning. She is delightful and her mom is adorable (she looks a bit like Lauren Bacall). RevDeb showed me pics from Yearly Kos of some of the firepups. I see that Pach is decidedly youthful!

er… that’s all. Oh, I had a scrambled egg and english muffin.

Thanks for askin’, Little Dog!

So . . . whadja talk about . . . .? (cue Horschak)

Now YOU, cc, who can lose track of a WHOLE SIMCA — you, I won’t worry about.

By the way, y’all, CC and I chatted on the foam last night, and the very first thing outta her was, “OH MOI GAWD, you sound just like you!”

I mean, it’s a miracle we could understand each other at all.

Jenny from the Blog @ 222

She’ll be back east on Monday….

Back east from where? Where is you be at, girl?

Hi firepups!

SOT [seriously off topic]

Today my ‘baby’ turns 19. I told him it would be beneficial if he would be more annoying so that I would be eager to ship him off to his second year of college.

For their birthdays I like to get out their baby books and think about the actual day of their birth. Labor: it’s hard work! But to get these beautiful children, it’s worth it. Raising them, not so easy, but what a reward when they become adults with a wonderful life of their own. At least that’s what I tell myself when I am sorely missing them.

op99 @
211

Jenny from the Blog @ 190

I guess nobody cares that I had breakfast this morning with RevDeb. I think that’s bigger than Snakes on a Plane!

I care deeply. I had dinner with RevDeb once – ain’t she great company? But I must say, since I am going to see it shortly, I hope Snakes on a Plane is better!

Check it out, dude!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..SNAKES.DTL

Brian (Donita’s guy) says I can have a silver Mercedes station wagon w/beige interior next week. Kobe sure likes the idea. He thinks he looks good in silver.

I am 64 years old and have never owned an automobile or truck. I’ve always lived in urban areas and have never needed the hassle of vehicle ownership. Public transportation works fine!

For that matter, my distaste of internal combustion engines extends to the yard — I’ve always used electric mowers, saws and weed whackers …

Happy 19th to him, egy, and a big ol’ SALUD to you!

lotus @ 195

Wow, li’l dog — that’s the only one of all these I haven’t tried. Thanks! Report will follow.

I would never, ever have known about it if they hadn’t had cases of the stuff at Costco. And Costco seems to be pretty selective about the stuff they carry.

. . . and your little dog, too @ 220

John Casper @ 165

OfT:
On Tweety, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, a former hawk on Iraq, said we are “losing a battalion a month” in Iraq in terms of killed and wounded. Obviously, the majority of these casualites are the wounded.

I know Barry McCaffrey is a grumpy old conservative, but Dog, I’m in love with him today.

He totally gave the PNAC Wayne Downing the smackdown.

If I had to choose a dichotomey in politics, it would be fearless truth-tellers vs liars and equivocators.

Saw that!

Wayne Downing = NEOCON

Twin Planets @ 206

This added demand for corn will inevitably end up affecting lots of food prices. Lots of foods have corn syrup, corn meal, etc. as ingredients. In addition, corn is used as feedstock for poultry and livestock (inefficient way to grow protein!), so no more cheap McChickens with McBacon on a McCornBread roll (whatever — I don’t do fast food anymore). Oh, and some farmers will replant the back 40 to take advantage of higher corn prices — so other crop prices (wheat?) will rise as their supply goes down….

Ethanol processing takes the sugars out of the corn, leaving behind what’s known as brewer’s grain. It is a high-protein mash that is used for feed and is actually more efficient for livestock than the starchy regular corn. Make the ethanol and sell the byproduct as animal feed. Meanwhile newer ethanol plants are burning the corn stalks and husks for electricity.

As long as we see high-fructose corn syrup being put into everything I don’t think we need to be concerned about corn prices. I’ll worry we’re burning too much corn if and when we return to the healthier beet and cane sugars for primary sweeteners. But even then, I don’t think giving farmers a better price is so bad.

No farmer who’s been around for any length of time is going to plant only corn to the exclusion of other crops. Farming in the United States is very evolved, and crop rotation is part of the mantra to ensure the soil is not depleted of necessary nutrients. The Dust Bowl was a hard lesson learned.

Jane Hamsher @ 233

Brian (Donita’s guy) says I can have a silver Mercedes station wagon w/beige interior next week. Kobe sure likes the idea. He thinks he looks good in silver.

Ohhh yeahhh, that’s y’all, Jane!

Too Embarassed To Say- oh, that is so funny!!! And, as I learned in Maine this summer, people who depend on well water do exactly the same, and it makes sense. If they have this problem, I will pass the advice on. However, I’ve already tried the bleach thingy, 3 or 4 times, so that is not the problem, alas!! And, OldCoastie, way back up there, maybe “Hints from H” would really make a nice change from the Saturday morning kick back recipe thread!!

puppethead @151
As far as I know America has never sent troops to foreign lands to die for crops.

I hate to say it, puppethead, but your rhetorical question is unbearably naive.

Take a gander at this Harpers article.

Here’s a salient passage:

The common assumption these days is that we muster our weapons to secure oil, not food. There’s a little joke in this. Ever since we ran out of arable land, food is oil. Every single calorie we eat is backed by at least a calorie of oil, more like ten. In 1940 the average farm in the United States produced 2.3 calories of food energy for every calorie of fossil energy it used. By 1974 (the last year in which anyone looked closely at this issue), that ratio was 1:1. And this understates the problem, because at the same time that there is more oil in our food there is less oil in our oil. A couple of generations ago we spent a lot less energy drilling, pumping, and distributing than we do now. In the 1940s we got about 100 barrels of oil back for every barrel of oil we spent getting it. Today each barrel invested in the process returns only ten, a calculation that no doubt fails to include the fuel burned by the Hummers and Blackhawks we use to maintain access to the oil in Iraq.

Jane Hamsher @ 233

Kobe sure likes the idea. He thinks he looks good in silver.

Oh, dear. Still going through his Liberace phase, is he?

As an environmental resources engineer who has worked in alternative energy and efficiency issues for many years, I have some serious reservations about biodiesel. It’s a great idea for a few folks here and there, but propagated through the larger populace, it strikes me as a resource disaster waiting to happen.

First off, let’s all recognize that it’s pure lunacy to grow food for fuel. Like anything else, topsoil is a resource and a finite one at best. Topsoil erosion rates in the midwest were scaring the hell out of me long before I’d ever heard of biodiesel, but people were already talking about methanol, which I thought was a bad idea then and is even worse now. It’s bad enough we’re killing the soil with monoculture and bioengineered crops, but to suck even more out of it to drive our cars when so many in the world go hungry just doesn’t strike me as a solution.

The fuel derived from so many supposed waste products doesn’t strike me as much more logical either. Most of those waste products already have other applications, such that the demand for them is simply diverted to other resources if they are instead used for biofuel. That might not always be the case — like I said, biodiesel may be fine for a few early adopters. But as a larger solution, as a trend, it scares me silly.

I’ll maintain what I have for years, fuel cells are the answer. Hydrogen from solar, stored in solid metal hydrides similar to conventional NiMH batteries, used in fuel cell vehicles that are in turn plugged into our homes and and businesses to run in reverse and electrolyze their own fuel when not being driven. The only drawback is that it offers private citizens complete and utter energy independence such that energy corporations have a disincentive to develop and market such products.

In the meantime, as many above have said, hybrids migrating to plug-in hybrids are probably the most appropriate interim evolutionary step.

Hey Jane- well, that sounds like a great solution!!

lotus @ 229

Now YOU, cc, who can lose track of a WHOLE SIMCA — you, I won’t worry about.

By the way, y’all, CC and I chatted on the foam last night, and the very first thing outta her was, “OH MOI GAWD, you sound just like you!”

I mean, it’s a miracle we could understand each other at all.

I have a VERY big soft spot for that southern drawl thang. makes my evil little heart skip.

little dog:

So . . . whadja talk about . . . .? (cue Horschak)

Deb has been down with a cold so she’s struggling a bit with that. We chatted about FDL and how we both came to be here… and her mom asked a lot of questions about blogging. She was so sweet and interested in how we all connect so passionately. The whole internet thing dazzles her.

op99 – I live in Venice, Cal-i-for-ni-a. !

Suin,

Why yes I do have a Sprite. It’s the daily driver. More at:

http://userwww.service.emory.e…..prite.html

Yep, it’s a lot of fun. As one of my friends noted as we zipped along in traffic: “You know so many of the world’s problems would be solved if we all drove Sprites…”

Wow, that Donita.

*ilson46201 @ 234

I am 64 years old and have never owned an automobile or truck. I’ve always lived in urban areas and have never needed the hassle of vehicle ownership. Public transportation works fine!

Be nice if you could take you’re critters on public transportation. “Til them . . . .

When I was a kid and traveled with my grandmother on the train, when we walked through the baggage car, it was full of travelin’ doggies in their crates.

And to think: this thread will now live forever.

(Good thing my momma didn’t.)

meta @ 231

Check it out, dude!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/…..SNAKES.DTL

Quoting therefrom:

Advisory: Violence, blood, death, harsh language and snakes attaching themselves to sensitive parts of the body.

Sounds like my kind of movie. I am that rare dude-ette who is a (mf)snake-o-phile. (Deep-seated psycho-sexual issues?) Anyway, I am totally in love with the gorgeous Gaboon viper featured in the trailers.

Twin Planets at 3:05 pm
I appreciate the very thoughtful comment.
Isn’t the advantage of “switchgrass” that it is a more efficient way to produce ethanol?

Jenny from the Blog- Venice!! I have a great set of old postcards of that Venice. And, if I understood correctly, the “Bat Cave” referenced in past by JH is near or in Venice!!

It’s true. Lotus talks exactly like she writes! If I got a call and I had to guess which poster it was, I would have guessed correctly. We had a great conversation until my phone buzzed out. Hopefully, us Floridians will have an October meet-up. Of course, now that I know her toilet is not clean…

Ed*ard Teller @
93

zAmboni @ 80

Go for a VW TDI, if you can find one….you can easily get ~50mpg.

I’ve had my TDI for about a year, and the best tank was 47.2, the worst (at tempuratures around -20 degrees F) was about 39.

If you can find a Geo Metro with the 3 cylinder block and a 5-speed manual, you can get over 50 mpg.

Oh, dear Gods Jane, do NOT get a Geo Metro with the 3 cylinders. I beg you. I had one of these beasts, it ate engines. I suspect it’s fine if you’re driving short distances, but at the time I was driving an hour to work (a necessity since not much employment in my town or immediate area) and 6 times a year a 7 hour trip to NY state. The gas mileage was great. But, the expense of the repairs was horrendous (4 engines, 5 alternators (the bolts holding it in place would break) hideous number of belts, 2 mufflers)

Although, the humor of getting stopped for speeding going *up* the highest point on the Mass Pike was priceless. I wish I could have a picture of the trooper’s face when he told me I was going 80 mph, uphill. Yes, it took a few minutes for me to stop laughing.

It’s possible that there are good examples of the Metro out there, but, after that horror-show, I’m not looking for them.

Speaking of movies, can I just say I’m waiting breathlessly for the new Todd Haynes movie biopic of Dylan starring Cate Blanchett in the lead role?

I think she’ll be the new Linda Hunt. :)

Too Embarassed To Say @ 241,

That’s a meta-argument that’s not really germane. Our dependence on oil for farming is a convenience issue, not a necessity. We don’t need bananas year-round from Brazil. We could, if necessary, revert to animal-based farming instead of the fuel-based vehicles. Or, you know, convert the tractors and combines to biodiesel. Hmm, that’s sounding almost like a perpetual motion machine…

Jenny from the Blog @ 246

little dog:

So . . . whadja talk about . . . .? (cue Horschak)

Deb has been down with a cold so she’s struggling a bit with that. We chatted about FDL and how we both came to be here… and her mom asked a lot of questions about blogging. She was so sweet and interested in how we all connect so passionately. The whole internet thing dazzles her.

Oh, poor Rev. A cold on vacation just sucks.

Glad you connected.

Not so sure mine’s Southern as much as just Hick, Busted, so you may be disappointed. (Oh, and you’re one of those anti-Volvists, maybe now I remember — but we forgave each other our foibles, I think?)

Jeff Boatright @ 247

Suin,

Why yes I do have a Sprite. It’s the daily driver. More at:

http://userwww.service.emory.e…..prite.html

Yep, it’s a lot of fun. As one of my friends noted as we zipped along in traffic: “You know so many of the world’s problems would be solved if we all drove Sprites…”

Bookmarked that one.
I remember tearing around the corners in a Midget I had once. TING!…TING TING TING….. TING, as the freaking spokes let go in the back wheels. Steel wheels MUCH better.

Lotus, honey, Hick is even better.

Op99 – Oh, I wish you were in San Francisco! Just reading that made me want to see it but I’m horrified of snakes. ( I have a big crush on Mick LaSalle. He’s geeky but he writes the most interesting reviews.)

Valley Girl @ 251

Jenny from the Blog- Venice!! I have a great set of old postcards of that Venice. And, if I understood correctly, the “Bat Cave” referenced in past by JH is near or in Venice!!

Damn, I’ve lived here a long time and never heard of the Bat Cave! Venice has a unique history, for sure, sort of created by Abbott Kinney who was so enamored by the Venice Canals in Italy he duplicated that here. Isn’t that something?

His old family house is now a beautiful B&B and I always recommend that friends and family stay there when they come to visit. If anyone’s interested check out: http://www.venicebeachhouse.com.

lotus @ 235

Happy 19th to him, egy, and a big ol’ SALUD to you!

Thanks, eh?

[not Canadian, just like this phrase]

It’s been interesting to hear the gory details from HSAT about her medical stuff, kind of a chance to see what it looks like to observe my medstuff from this end.

Part of the difficulty of doing work like this is the disconnect between our comfy lives and the horror of people suffering somewhere else.

It’s painful to make the transition between normal life and egregious suffering. Why would anyone in their right mind do this? For me it works because I’m not in my right mind, i.e. mentally ill. If normal life is painfully difficult and working to save lives overseas is painfully difficult, why not go for it?

In Hope’s case it’s worse because people are there because of our decision to go to war based on propaganda.

In my case it’s hard because of living in a country where RELATIVELY we hae adequate health care for most people, and working in a country where so many do not get the basics. Breaks my heart in the case of children, which is why I work there. Should their oil-rich government spend their rubles on sick children? That’s another answer over another bottle.

Jenny from the Blog @ 256

Speaking of movies, can I just say I’m waiting breathlessly for the new Todd Haynes movie biopic of Dylan starring Cate Blanchett in the lead role?

I think she’ll be the new Linda Hunt. :)

What? What? I didn’t like Far From Heaven much but love Cate Blanchett. Elizabeth!

let’s remember — Kobe is all about style.

Yup, my dogs get to make the car choices too… silver, biodiesel Mercedes sounds about right… and you won’t believe how pleased you will feel pissing off Deadeye Dick…

Jenny from the Blog- you need to ask JH about the “Bat Cave”- it was something that she referred to a good while back while she was in LA. I thought it had something to do with the C&L hangout, but I’m not sure. One of those FDL obscurities, I fear.

There are a couple of items to take into account. First, the energy thing. The argument that burning fossil fuels somehow invalidates the use of biodiesel is bogus. I have a guy who wants me to start up a biodiesel factory for his construction equipment, and farm equipment. One can easily bootstrap a totally biodiesel operation. The question then becomes how much oil-seed production is required to handle the anticipated annual fuel usage on the farm. Easily done for most farmers. I don’t have the number for acres planted = gallons to burn, sorry.

The next item is the availability of vegetable oils for conversion to biodiesel. Currently, the US produces enough veggie oil to replace approximately 10% of the fuel burned in vehicles in the US today. That leaves a lot of room in the market for ethanol and other alternative fuels, not to mention the traditional fuck-the-world-I’m-burning-petroleum solutions.

One business model I’d like to see explored is production of veggie oils, leasing those oils to restaurants, then converting the returned oil into bio-diesel. If you know anyone who’d be interested in such a business, please send them my way.

The carbon sequestration issue is totally in favor of bio-diesel and ethanol. Paleo-carbon that was securely sequestered way down deep in the earth is now spewed all over our planet. By replacing the paleo-carbon with contemporary carbon (bio-fuels), we put the burning carbon into a renewable, sustainable cycle. There is still a huge question about how we humans are going to re-sequester the carbon-equivalent of the petroleum (and coal) that have already been burned. Burning paleo-carbon is an open-ended flushing of safely-stored carbon into our current eco-system. Is no bueno. Seriously.

A smarter solution than bio-fuels, obviously, is to stop urban sprawl, and design our cities for convenient, safe, and reliable mass-transportation to eliminate the overwhelming majority of the “I’ve got to get to work and back and pick up my off-spring whom I will conveniently ignore for the rest of the evening” driving that is so incredibly inefficient. See Paris, NYC, and other subway-served cities for examples. Americans need to kick our addiction to the hell-on-earth that is the suburbs.

And cc’s Noo Yawk Tawk is more fun than the law ought allow — so THERE!

Well I’m a CA native, so naturally I don’t have an accent of any kind!

Yeh, y’all have that “network English” goin’ on, doncha, VG?

lol

like… you so do NOT have an accent, Valley Girl!

Here is a description of what one company is doing to be “in plant” carbon neutral while manufacturing biodiesel.

Link

This does not include the fossil fuel used to produce or transport the biodiesel feedstock.

Lotus:

Blanchett will play one aspect of Dylan (this film will definitely be arty if nothing else. (One of my guilty pleasures is Velvet Goldmine, I admit).

Here’s a bit :

Cate Blanchett (pictured) will play Bob Dylan in I’m Not There, Todd Haynes’ curiouser and curiouser Bob Dylan biopic. Don’t worry, he can handle it. He’s secure in his manhood. Besides, he’s reinvented himself so many times, gender switch should be a cakewalk. Couldn’t be any tougher than the jump to adult contemporary.

How’d this happen? Seems Haynes (Far from Heaven, Velvet Goldmine) couldn’t find a single actor to play Bob Dylan for his new movie. So he found several, including, so far, Heath Ledger, Richard Gere, Christian Bale, and Blanchett. She’ll play an aspect of Dylan, an androgynous singer-songwriter named “Jude.” (Remember the Iggy Pop and Bowie avatars of Velvet Goldmine?

http://popwatch.ew.com/popwatc…..et_al.html

Bye, doggies. I will motherf*cking review Motherf*cking Snakes on a Motherf*cking Plane for all y’all later.

Okay, I’m adjourning to the kitchen for a bit, wondering where on earth this thread’ll be next time I see it …

every time I am behind a biodiesel car, the first thing I notice is the smoke and horrific smell.
Seems to me these cars are big polluters.

lotus??? weall, whin I needs to tak to peeple on tuh phoan herah ifin dey doan git my reglar taluk, I kin do daat… (sorry, no offense meant it this comes out wrong- but the Southern accent was pretty challenging for me at first!!! ;))

Valley Girl @ 265

Jenny from the Blog- you need to ask JH about the “Bat Cave”- it was something that she referred to a good while back while she was in LA. I thought it had something to do with the C&L hangout, but I’m not sure. One of those FDL obscurities, I fear.

I will, when I get up the nerve. It’s kind of like looking directly into the sun. :)

I’ve watched Velvet Goldmine several times now — it’s rather complex

OldCoastie, like fer sure, like I mean like omigod that is totally totally so like I mean, I geddit.

*ilson46201 @ 279

I’ve watched Velvet Goldmine several times now — it’s rather complex

I saw it in a NYC theater when it first came out and it was wild!

er… are people still talking about biofuels? :)

http://www.makezine.com/03/biodiesel/

Make has a nice how-to article about making small batches of biodiesel in your backyard. The question you have to answer is- do you see yourself (or someone you know and live close enough to share with) making your own, or do you plan on buying from the pump? The impression I get is that it works, but if you’re going the DIY route it’s messy, potentially stinky, and takes time. If you drive a lot, you’ll need to dedicate a lot of time to making fuel.

Leave Irack, and watch the price of oil drop.

John Casper @ 252

Twin Planets at 3:05 pm
I appreciate the very thoughtful comment.
Isn’t the advantage of “switchgrass” that it is a more efficient way to produce ethanol?

Thanks — yes, switchgrass is better in that it grows incredibly quickly and in more climates than corn. I’m not expert on the technology, but I think there’s no commercial demonstrations of switchgrass conversion to ethanol yet. I think it gets a question mark so far.

Even if switchgrass is viable for ethanol, I’d point to Redwood’s comment @ 243, who put things much better than I did:
Redwood @ 243

…

First off, let’s all recognize that it’s pure lunacy to grow food for fuel. Like anything else, topsoil is a resource and a finite one at best. Topsoil erosion rates in the midwest were scaring the hell out of me long before I’d ever heard of biodiesel, but people were already talking about methanol, which I thought was a bad idea then and is even worse now. It’s bad enough we’re killing the soil with monoculture and bioengineered crops, but to suck even more out of it to drive our cars when so many in the world go hungry just doesn’t strike me as a solution.

…

In the meantime, as many above have said, hybrids migrating to plug-in hybrids are probably the most appropriate interim evolutionary step.

I’ll second the remark about plug-in hybrids. Someone’s going to eventually get rich selling conversion kits to Prius owners to convert them to plug-ins. (Conversion kits for the Priuses, not the owners! :) It’ll probably be Toyota that makes $$ selling the kits…

VG – 282… so glad you caught that… thought maybe it’d just sit there like something movely slowly down the toilet…

;-)

Hi everyone!

I love my Subaru Outback, a great car fro dogs. I get the desire to move toward the new technology, but I think part of the trick is to drive correctly and maintain your car religiously. My Outback is a 2000, has 120K miles and I get about 37mpg except for my work driving in cities. Consumer Reports likes the Forrester, which is probably a little bigger than what you want, but is really cute. The Outback has great space and for me, the AWD is a must since it’s my office on wheels all winter. I can go anywhere, no sweat, it’s fun to drive and I’ve only had to do expected repairs, like brakes and such. I expect to have it for another 120K.

The Tapit brothers will recommend a HOnda Civic Hybrid or the Lexus. Theyve seen some issues with the Prius, but everyone I’ve talked to loves theirs.

Re: the Sprite–my BF in HS had one, sosososo fun, and he also had a German ambulance, a VW bus that was extra tall, circa 64. Camping equipment and a rockin stereo system. I’d love to have that today. If I had space to store them, I’d have about 5 cars. My best friend and I swear we’re getting matching bathtub Porches for our 65th birthdays.

Valley Girl @ 279

lotus??? weall, whin I needs to tak to peeple on tuh phoan herah ifin dey doan git my reglar taluk, I kin do daat…

Hah?

707 !!!

You could ride a bike? No gas or bio crap whatsoever and it’s good for you

John Casper @ 165

OfT:
On Tweety, Gen. Barry McCaffrey, a former hawk on Iraq, said we are “losing a battalion a month” in Iraq in terms of killed and wounded. Obviously, the majority of these casualites are the wounded.

Did he mention how long he thinks “we” need to keep doing that?

Or what a little Iranian adventure will tack on to that?

*sigh*
************
Hilda above – thanks for the link
************

Is anyone from here (siun maybe?) at the DNC convention for some report over the weekend?

If VG had an accent, I wouldn’t notice.

ccmask @ 190

No, Jenny, I mean these \ like in #11. Or is it just my computer….

I noticed awhile back that a couple of posts I had that hit moderation (briefly – *ilson is very good!) came out of moderation with soeme backslashes – I’m thinking it has something to do with the filter process.

al-Scooter- aha! a Native CAian also, if I remember correctly- Ah, the Golden State.

twolf1 @ 43

OT – sorry if posted before:

The Bush administration continues to bypass standard intelligence channels and use what some believe to be propaganda tactics to create a compelling case for war with Iran, US foreign experts and former US intelligence officials tell RAW STORY.

One former senior intelligence official is particularly concerned by private briefings that Vice President Dick Cheney is getting from former Office of Special Plans (OSP) Director, Abram Shulsky.

“Vice President Cheney is relying on personal briefings from Shulsky for current intelligence on Iran,” said this intelligence official.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0818.html

Insane.

At last something I feel I can contribute on! I run my 99 beetle TDI on bio in the summer. Living in soybean central has to have some advantages. The only two problems I have running 100% Bio is finding it, and cold weather. The local farmers co-op sells it as a lubricity additive for the big tractors (lubricity of diesel declines with the sulfur being removed) at about the same price as petro sometimes less. The other issue is in cold weather. Soy bio is terrible for winter driving. It gels at about 38 degrees. You do not want that to happen. So when the Iowa winter hits I fill my 5 gallon blitz cans and cut the petro diesel to about B5 or B10. If you can find Bio made from Rapeseed (canola) it has a much lower gelling temp.

Much as I love my beetle, I have to agree with several comments above. They are not cheap cars. they get great mileage and are a blast to drive, but doing a lot of the work on them yourself saves the most money. There are design specific problems with the TDI design (timing belt, intake manifold clogging) that are very expensive to have done at the dealer. If you are lucky enough to find a great mechanic who knows his way around that engine, it is a godsend (Thanks Jason in Mason, WI).

http://www.tdiclub.com is a great resource for all things TDI.

If you’re going to be near King of Prussia, PA the club will have their annual meeting there over the Labor Day weekend, you can see a hundred tdi’s in one place, and get the straigt info from other experienced owners

For the toilet issue lotus is having, I’d try a bunch of denture tablets. I’ve used them in old toilets and they work pretty well.

I have to thank Christy for introducing me to the MrClean sponge, something I buy at Home Depot in the large economy size now. She recommended it to Pach months ago when his nieces and/or nephews were coming to visit. It’s the best thing in the world for everything except one problem I have ( later). I especially like it for my stainless steel sinks and my bath and kitchen fixtures, not to mention cleaning black marks off my wood floors and smudges of unknown origin from the walls and stair railings. It melts off the grunge and leaves everything shiny clean. I wish I could use it on my cat.

The problem I have is my stainless steel kitchen trash can. In spite of cleaning it everytime I empty it, I have ugly stains on the outside thatlook like drips down the side. I’ve tried Windes, Mr Clean thing, Stainless cleaner, silver polish and Clorox Cleanup. Nothing makes a difference. I’m about to get some Rust-Oleum and paint the damn thing because it just looks dirty. Any ideas?

from the RawStory article and most disturbing:

Cheney distrusts the information being disseminated by CIA on Iran.

very strange and very bad

Be danged if there ain’t a new thread.
Beware, There is a certain psyco on the front.

http://www.firedoglake.com/

My partner looks younger than I do. Well, he is younger than I am, but only by 3 years. He looks younger that that, though. Sometimes he gets carded at restaurants; they must think I’m a dirty old man.

Ask someone who knows: Peter Goldmark, is running for Congress in the 5th District of Washington State. That’s the eastern and north-eastern-most part of the state. Dr. Goldmark has a PhD in molecular biology, post-doctoral fellowship in neurobiology, and actively ranches on the family ranch in Okanogan County. He knows about biofuels….

zen- we are EPU’d at this point, but there is a great cleaner “Bar Keepers Friend” – it is in a container like old Comet and Ajax- paper surround, metal top and bottom- I don’t remember where I found this, but a little goes a long way, and is a great subsititute for the more expensive ceramic stove top cleaners, for example. I would try this on your trash can. xxxooo

VG, we native Calis don’t have accents – we have tildes.

dt @ 278

every time I am behind a biodiesel car, the first thing I notice is the smoke and horrific smell.
Seems to me these cars are big polluters.

How can you tell it’s a bio-diesel?

Mine seems to run a little cleaner on BD.

cordelia @
77

#29 – Electric? As is, not worth it.

We have had a Honda Insight for nearly six years that gets over 60 mpg. Our Civic hybrid gets around 45 mpg. How is that not worth it?

Also, I agree with #20. And no one mentions the depletion of topsoil, a most precious and irreplaceable resource.

You say 60 and 45 mpg respectively. I said “electic”. You are talking miles per gallong of some crude oil derived product, therefore you are talking “hybrid”. To me there is a significant difference. One has a gas/diesel motor aboard to charge batteries, the other does not. If I’m incorrect, please do feel free to tell me so.

WRT Taylor Marsh verbally shaking Bolton like a rag doll, well there it is.Bolton is just barely smart enough to know what Taylor would do to him. That lady is at the top of her game.

I ran across the website http://www.dieselsecret.com recently.

According to these folks, you get your used oil, filter it through about $125.00 worth of stuff you can get at Lowe’s (cleaner and much bluer than Home Depot), add their additive (about $15.00) and run that very stuff through any an unmodified diesel engine and get better performance with less noise.

Should you ever run out of homebrew, you can always just pull up to a regular diesel pump!

Here’s the clincher: Net cost per gallon: $. 46

VW Rabbit. Harlequin Paint Job. (that’s a link to a cool pic of the new VW rabbit)

. . . and your little dog, too @ 304

dt @ 278

every time I am behind a biodiesel car, the first thing I notice is the smoke and horrific smell.
Seems to me these cars are big polluters.

How can you tell it’s a bio-diesel?

Mine seems to run a little cleaner on BD.

I have one of those Mercedes models that are supposed to be ideal for biodiesel conversion.

I use regular diesel, and have had people comment about the smoke and smell, so I don’t think BD is the issue.

Oh, and it’s also exempt from Calif. smog regulations, so apparently the smoke doesn’t qualify as “pollution.”

Here’s another piece

Biofuel: Who Benefits – Smaller Growers or Just Large-Scale Producers and Agribusiness?

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0414-22.htm

Christopher Cook who wrote it has a great book, Diet for a Dead Planet. You should consider having him for the book club.

http://dietforadeadplanet.com

Thankfully, the DP and I don’t need to own a car. (Zipcar works for us, and car sharing in general is a good thing in urban areas.) But a planned move to the suburbs has me thinking about a late 70s-early 80s Mercedes-Benz W123 turbodiesel converted to use biodiesel. From experience, the cars are solid (even at close to 30 years old), roomy, and fun to drive.

No, the repairs and spare parts aren’t cheap. But I’m convinced the W123 Mercedes are among the best cars ever built. Plus the back seat would be a stylish perch for Kobe, et. al.

I know everyone’s throwing out all the hard data, but here’s a travelogue that’s you’d enjoy… surfing trip on vegetable oil…

http://www.patagonia.com/bendtobaja/index2.shtml

links re: converting diesel engines to run on veg.oil (also on above)
http://www.3estrategies.org/Ar…..?newsID=58

http://www.vegpoweredsystems.com/

Twin Planets @
206

In the US we use corn (mostly) for ethanol generation. But production of ethanol via corn takes lots of acreage, even with high US yields. If I remember correctly, using one gallon of ethanol per week works out to about the same consumption of corn as the diet of an average American.

ethanol production is still evolving. if you go back enough decades, complete corn ears were being harvested; but for quite a long time now, all corn has been harvested with combines, so the cob and stalks are left in the field. as it happens, ethanol production is likely to be more efficient if the entire plant is used, but this would require another sea change in harvesting techniques. if supply of corn to ethanol plants becomes lucrative enough, this could well happen. most ethanol manufacturing plants are offering small (ca. 10 cents/bushel) premiums over the elevator prices for delivered corn as it is.
but it may be that other crops will become more important for ethanol production; sugar cane is reportedly a bit more effective.

Dear Jane,
May I direct your attention to Tesla Motors. An ALL electric automobile that is obscenely fast (if you’re into that sorta thing) and goes 250 miles on a charge, carries its own charger, and is chocked full of style.

What could be cooler than driving an electric car and lifting a big middle-digit salute to ALL the oil interests.

Price: about 80k. Unfortunately the first issue of 100 cars is sold out.

In the meantime? The new Prius sounds pretty impressive.

Peace

Jane,
GO BIODIESEL!!!!!!

IMO a lot of well-intentioned but incomplete information. I live in Asheville NC where there is a local ‘biodiesel reactor’ that through the process of transesterification converts waste vegetable oil from restaurants to a low-emissions/low-smell diesel product. It is true that we are temporarily set-back by the low -sulphur rules for 2007 (even tho biodiesel is much lower than diesel). I run a 2006 VW Jetta TDI on biodiesel with better mileage and no smell!

Ive attached some links so you can decide for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel
http://www.biofuels.coop/coop.shtml
http://www.blueridgebiofuels.com/
http://forums.biodieselnow.com/default.asp

GOOD LUCK!

Going biodiesel is one of the ONLY things you can do, RIGHT NOW, to reduce your own personal use of petroleum.

Period.

You can go ethanol, too. There are no really good electric options until the Tesla comes out next year.

Look, let’s clear up some misstatements and misconceptions here: ALL diesel engines can run “biodiesel” (Methyl Esters, actually). ALL diesels, not “some”.

And it isn’t as cut and dried to make your own, easy yes, but not so fast: The catalyst of Methanol and Potassium Chloride (or Sodium Chloride) used to separate the Esters from the Glycerol is VERY TOXIC IF SPILLED!!! BE CAREFUL brewing your own. You will free up mercury in the soil, and that can attach to brain cells in organic organisms, not a nice thing.

A better idea was put forth by Cujo, use plain, waste veggie oil!! (Sorry redwood, but with over THREE BILLION GALLONS dumped unused each year in US, what is it that “scares you silly” again? Your shadow, most likely).

I live on an island. I funded my secretary to start her own recycling business of collecting waste veggie oil from Asian restaurants and fried chicken fast food outlets, @ 2000 gallons a month, made her a simple filtration system, a 3000 gallon storage tank, and converted all my construction equipment and my trucks to use plain old waste peanut, soy, and canola oil. I purchase it from her for $1.00/gallon. Diesel runs $3.36/gallon now in Guam.

Simple simple: Strain it to 2 microns. Heat the fuel tank (you can get European kits for almost ANY European diesel auto, and almost ANY US diesel powered vehicle, truck, construction equipment, from MANY US dealers, cool stuff, check google), heat the fuel line to 160F RIGHT before it enters the injectors, and you have almost FREE fuel.

Free sound good enough? No EPA poking up your rear (they frown on non-contained brewing of the catalyst, but have NO REGS concerning waste veggie oil (WVO). Because it is entirely natural. Of course, you have to put up with the exhaust smell of fried chicken, or stirfry instead of diesel smell, hahaha.

redwood, get a clue brother. We ARE assisting the environment by using TWICE what the earth has given us….

HOW can you bitch about that??

Sure, ideally, we would all use solar and wind generators to charge our small golf cart sized vehicles, and use completely non-polluting transportation. Of course, it won’t power flight, or truck goods around to feed us all….

But this is saving the otherwise waste oil from being dumped unused.

Biodiesel?? Well, you still need to manufacture the Methanol…I prefer WVO, “neat”.

I can’t possibly read all 317 comments in the short time I have, but I did do a search for “TDI” and see that the VW diesels have already been covered. As already mentioned http://forums.tdiclub.com has a lot of info on VW and other diesels, including biodiesel.

As yet another data point, I have 99K on my 2003 VW Jetta, and I’ve averaged 52 mpg. I realize you’ll need something bigger (maybe) for the dogs, but, as already mentioned, there are a lot more diesel cars and trucks coming online in the new model years.

My experience is in MD, but at least Aberoham (112) has LA experience. Cost of petrodiesel is currently just under regular gas, but expect prices to rise when refineries switch over to producing home heating oil. Biodiesel is made in-state and in surrounding states, and the MD Soybean Board offers a 50% rebate on your first $2000 of biodiesel. (At least I think they still do.) Dunno the situation in CA.

It’s worth the switch, believe me. Good luck!

There are biodiesel folks over here in Corvallis area where I live. I will try and get some contact information for you. I think there are also folks running on used French fry oil.

Stay tuned.

‘06 Jetta TDI – I have a 40 mile commute every day and run it on at least B20. I am still breaking it in, so the mileage isn’t stellar yet, but it is a great car. Good luck finding one. I snatched up the first 5-speed I found.

Get a PRIUS, and then down the road, you can have it modified into a plug-in hybrid (PHEV).

http://www.iags.org/pih.htm

PHEVs are like regular hybrids but with larger batteries and the ability to re-charge from a standard outlet (mostly at night). They’re the best of both worlds: local travel is electric, and you always have a gas-tank backup or for longer trips. Most of the usage is electric which is the *best* possible solution (see the film ”Who killed the electric car”).

Our Prius is paying for itself with it’s great gas milage…it uses so little gas the money we save pays the monthly payment, no kidding. If you travel a lot, you can’t do better (and it doesn’t smell)

Farang,

I never said biodeisel is inherently bad or even scary. To the contrary, I said it’s fine for a certain number of people, and clearly you are among them. What I said is that it’s scary in scale if a large audience looks at it as THE solution. Do some math.

You said 3 billion barrels per year are dumped in the US. That’s a lot more than I’d have thought but I’ll take your word for it. Still, the US uses on the order of 11.5 mbd (million barrels per day) of oil per day. That’s 4.2 billion barrels, or 176 billion gallons per year. Look at that against your 3 billion gallons of vegie oil. 1.7%, something we could achieve by making sure our tires are properly inflated. But how many people fail to pull even that off? It’s great as a practical measure to best use a real resource that does exist for those people who have access to the resource and can use it wisely. But it’s wrong to promote it as anything that has the capacity to be propagated as a serious solution on a global scale.

Even without getting into the odds of massive widespread toxic impacts from hundreds of millions of people stewing their own fuel in the backyard or the attic, you’d be looking at an unimaginably massive shift in resources to accomodate demand before it would have a significant impact as far as diverting demand from oil.

There are other alternatives that can do the job more completely, more economically, and with far fewer potential negative impacts.

Right now, the best way to go is Hybrid. Stock plug-in hybrids are probably going to come out soon, too, which would even be nicer. (No need to go to the gas station anymore, heh.)

If you want a real, viable alternative, here is one that doesn’t get talked about much:

Fly Wheels

What is a fly wheel? You’re probably familiar with it from the little toy cars you played with as a child, that you push along the floor to get started, and then they roll for a long time because of the pent-up energy.

A fly-wheel is a small, heavy, quickly rotating disc that can store a great deal of angular momentum. The ones in toy cars are very small, but if you can imagine one that is made of strong heavy material, rotating at thousands of RPM (just like your disk drive, but heavier), that kind of fly wheel can store as much or more energy than your gas tank.

And there is no energy loss in this, as there is with batteries. You just tap into the fly-wheel’s energy by putting the gear to it.

The first time I heard about this, it sounded preposterous, but it’s for real. The head of the Physics Department at CSUDH was really enthused about this and got me interested in it.

Do a Google search on fly wheels alternative energy and see what you get. Ford is working on a hybrid/fly-wheel prototype right now called Synergy 2010.

Audi won LeMans with a Diesel engine this year.

Repeat: LeMans 24-hour race was won by a Diesel-engeined car this year. Fewer fuel stops, higher torque, direct injection…Diesels are looking really good these days.

As a higher-density fuel than gasoline, Diesel will be popular for years. If you still want a pure-piston car, Diesels are the way to go for longevity and mileage.

…oh and Jane, I forgot to mention re the Prius: there is tons of room in the back if you drop the seat…my husband loads all his musical equipment in including speakers, Amps, PA systems and three or four guitars and then goes to the drummers house and picks him up and loads his stuff in too…so plenty of room for the dogs!

Two weeks ago the Shell station down the street from my house started selling biodiesel. The strangest part is that it’s right next to their refinery. My guess is they plan to put all the small distributors out of business and jack up the prices. Who knows?

Prius…it’s now 6th generation (6!)technology..and if you take delivery before the end of september you’ll recieve a tax credit of 3, 000. That’s cash to you from the government.

My 6′4 husband loves to drive it..and the two teenagers travel comfortably in the back seats. We average 48-51 mpg and it’s new. The mileage keeps getting better as we break it in.

The car payment vs cost of gas means we actualy ahead of the game financially.

It’s amazing.

We have a base line model and it runs like a dream.

Our other car is a Scion…lots of space..decent gas milage…although my fil’s camry gets 38 mpg.

Scions have great resale..if you are a trader outer of cars rather than a drive em into the grounder.

Hybrids have been much maligned. Batteries now have a 100,000 mile warrenty…and the resale on hybrids is stunning.

Two observations:

1) Hybrids are best for stop-and-go in-traffic commuting (think Chicago Dan Ryan), or suburban startup-shutdown-startup errand running. In straight highway driving (e.g. Los Angeles to Hartford) they will get _worse_ milage than their non-hybrid sibling because they are hauling the batteries around. Toyota masks this a bit by making the Prius the most aerodynamically efficient of their small cars, but that comes at the expense of space. As our 2-Prius neighbors found when they tried to take a camping vacation this summer.

Summary: stop-and-go, get a Prius. Much fast highway, Honda Civic.

2) Biodiesel (of which used cooking oil is only a small subset) will only work long-term if new plants are developed to grow it. If our current farming techniques are used to grow soybeans for the oil, it is a short-term net energy loser and a long-term soil ecology disaster. Some research has been done in seaborne oil-producing alge, but that doesn’t seem to be going anywhere. Some new plants (preferably seaborne) will have to be developed to make this work. Personally I think it has a lot of promise in the 20-year timeframe, but the question is whether there are societal forces that would rather not see it happen.

Cranky

> to use plain old waste peanut, soy, and
> canola oil. I purchase it from her for
> $1.00/gallon. Diesel runs $3.36/gallon
> now in Guam.
>
> Simple simple: Strain it to 2 microns.
> […] Free sound good enough? No EPA
> poking up your rear

Two points:

1) Does the $1 price include the proper disposal of the filter waste? I would guess that is quite nasty and could result in an EPA visit itself.

2) This will only work as long as no one else does it. Particularly on an island there is going to be a limited supply of cooking oil. Nowhere near enough for everyone.

Cranky

Coming to this late, but I have been running 99.9% biodiesel in my unmodified 2001 TDi VW Beetle all summer without a problem.

Biodiesel is not a gimmick, as some above have claimed. It does take energy to produce (ie to grow soybeans) but the studies I’ve seen put the return at 2 to 3 gallons of biodiesel produced for every gallon of fuel consumed in production. This is considerably better than ethanol, BTW.

Diesel engines do have emission problems, but burning biodiesel in them reduces pollutants – for instance, biodiesel is ultra-low sulphur, reducing sulfate emissions. Particluates are still a problem, but a potentially solvable one. And diesels are very fuel-efficient, meaning that they will produce less CO2 for the same milage driven than gas cars.

Individual owners shouldn’t be focused on using used cooking oil in their cars. If biodiesel-burning cars are bought by consumers, companies that produce biodiesel from cooking oil and lots of other sources will appear.

Minneapolis just got it’s first, regular, full-time biodiesel pump this summer, and the second is coming shortly. At 2.87 a gallon, (and 40 miles per gallon) it’s beginning to attract attention.

Took the 06 Prius on a 650 mile highway journey..got over 46 mpg.

Took the two teenagers to camp…loaded down the Prius…worked great. Gear, suitcases, guitars..

Lots of statements that I read out there about hybrids are not true of the current versions.

Just saying that if you don’t own one..you might want to check the new versions out.

That said…whatever one can do to save on fuel..more power to ya!

i leave it to Mr Monbiot:

worst then fossil fuels

~>

Damn this is a win-win situation. US farmers can make money and we can be independent of petroleum. Sounds too good to be true! Like a car that runs on electricity. Oh yeh, never mind

> Damn this is a win-win situation.
> US farmers can make money and we can be
> independent of petroleum. Sounds too good
> to be true!

Two words: soil depletion. Drive through Iowa and Illinois, stop in some 1800s cemetaries, and measure the difference between ground level at the edge of the cemetary and the surrounding fields.

Cranky

Cranky Observer @ 329

In straight highway driving (e.g. Los Angeles to Hartford) they will get _worse_ milage than their non-hybrid sibling because they are hauling the batteries around.

My father-in-law drove his ‘05 Prius from Salina, KS to Asheville, NC and back this summer — 1,500 miles each way — with the back end loaded with luggage and photography equipment. He averaged about 53mpg for the trip, including a lower average (~46mpg) for the mountainous western North Carolina segment.

He is 6′1″ or so and reported that he was not at all road weary from the drive. I am 6′4″ and drove the Prius a number of times while he visited. Quite the comfy ride.

Unfortunately, our beloved standard poodle died just weeks before his arrival, so we could not poodle-test the Prius.

Sorry Christy.

Cheers,

-JA

A few comments on the most common complaints about BD:
more pollution: The smoke you see is particulate matter. Particulates are not really bad for you–you suck in dust all the time. But with petrol diesel, they provide a substrate for carrying the nasty part of exhaust into your lungs. With BD, there is almost none of the nasties, so the dust is pretty harmless.
Also, the reason diesels don’t have particulate filters is that sulfur in diesel kills them too fast. Now that we are finally seeing ULSD, the filters become viable and particulates become even less of an issue.
lost cropland: Using soy or rape as feedstock is largely a matter of convenience now. BD can be made from any vegetable or animal oil. If we find ourselves struggling to produce enough food because of BD, we can switch to jatropha, which grows in arid climates where crops are not as practical. Or, we can use algae, as has been mentioned. Or, we can explore a wide range of other options, which can be specific to local climate.
But we’re a long way from this problem at current production levels.
messy/time consuming: There are pumps across the nation now where you can buy pre-made, certified BD. Making your own is great if you are into self-sufficiency, or live in a remote area, or just like tinkering, but it is not necessary.
negative returns: these claims are predicated on one study, highly flawed, which mostly addresses ethanol. The US govt. has produced one of the many studies which show output 3.2 times as high as inputs. Even if you go down the road of “farming the crop uses too much energy,” you are too focused on status quo. Farm equipment is mostly diesel-powered, and can run on BD. Fertilizer does not have to be petroleum based–ask any organic gardener. Please do continue to point out the untenable farming practices that are so common today, but don’t mix them up with BD.

why electric is problematic:
a: batteries are made from some nasty stuff, and will have to be produced/replaced a lot if we go whole hog this direction. We need to make sure the production is clean and recycling is mandatory and efficient.

b. plug-ins are using some kind of generated power. If you live in TX, it is probably made from coal–not a really attractive option. If you live in other places, it may be nuclear, or hydro, or a number of other possibilities, but don’t pretend it isn’t going on just because you can’t see it.

c. Auto makers are using hybrids to get more power instead of getting maximum mileage. The prius is a pretty nice compromise, though it still doesn’t do much better than some gassers. But most other hybrids are getting marginally better mileage than their gasser counterparts. It’s a waste of the technology with a feel-good marketing campaign.