
A federal district court judge in Detroit has issued an injunction, halting the NSA domestic spying program unless and until the Bush Administration follows the nation's laws and obtains FISA warrants as every other Administration has done since the 1970s, and calling this end-run of the nation's laws unconstitutional in very straightforward language.
According to the WaPo:
U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor wrote in a strongly-worded 43-page opinion that the NSA wiretapping program violates privacy and free-speech rights and the constitutional separation of powers between the three branches of government. She also found that it violates a 1978 law set up to oversee clandestine surveillance.Ruling in a case brought by the American Civil Liberties Union and other advocacy groups, Taylor, 73, wrote that "public interest is clear, in this matter. It is the upholding of the Constitution. . . . "
"It was never the intent of the framers to give the president such unfettered control, particularly where his actions blatantly disregard the parameters clearly enumerated in the Bill of Rights," she wrote. " . . . There are no hereditary Kings in America and no powers not created by the Constitution. So all 'inherent powers' must derive from that Constitution."
It's Thursday, and the peanut is home with me today, so I haven't had an opportunity to go through the whole case as yet, but Glenn has some great analysis up already, and it is well worth the read.
The ACLU has the full opinion here. And they also have a good summary of the case history here. I hope to have more on this ruling as I can get time to thoroughly read and digest it. Please link up any good analysis you see on the case here in the comments for everyone else to peruse.
Sen. Russ Feingold's office sent along this statement regarding the ruling:
"Today's district court ruling is a strong rebuke of this administration's illegal wiretapping program. The President must return to the Constitution and follow the statutes passed by Congress. We all want our government to monitor suspected terrorists, but there is no reason for it to break the law to do so. The administration went too far with the NSA's warrantless wiretapping program. Today's federal court decision is an important step toward checking the President's power grab."
Clear, to the point, unambiguous -- have to love that in an elected official, don't you?
This is going to get interesting. As Glenn points out, this is now the second federal court to reject the "state secrets" claims of the Bush Administration -- looks like someone's crown may be getting a bit tarnished.
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Anna Diggs Taylor!
YAY!
I diggs Anna!
twolf!
tommy yum!
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
1 win for the good guys-yay!
To the peanut:
Your mommy is the shit! :D
To the mommy:
Thanks for explaining these things to sorts like me. I want to know but am not immersed enough yet to explain. Thanks and Hallelujah!
Hallelujah! Judge Anna Diggs Taylor nails it!
Does anyone else feel like the tide is finally turning? Not to get all unfocused or celebratory or anything, but this is truly refreshing news.
I feel this is more than just a baby step. Even though the Jean Bennet Ramsy arrest is trumping it in the M$M
What I found so ingenious was the ACLU stating that discovery was not required, since the mere public knowledge of the TSA program was sufficient to cause harm to the plaintiffs. By going that route, the ACLU effectively preempted the “state secrets” argument, since the govt was arguing that state secrets would need to be disclosed during the discovery phase. No discovery, no state secrets issue.
Bout damn time!!
Finally, of course she’ll be labeled an Al-Qaeda, liberal activist judge for the next 2 years. Judicialicious!
We, the People, diggs Anna!
I read Glenn Greenwalds post about this. I am very encouraged. A feeling that I rarely am able to enjoy in this era of the incompetent, power grabbing boy king.
Great on this ruling.
OT…… NPR’s The World on…I am so pissed off that the Lebanese people are going home to intact houses in some cases, but the ground littered with unexploded cluster bombs. The genocide goes on……
Thanks, Christy, this was a speedy post from you considering the volume of material to wade through and juggling the demands of motherhood at the same time.
While it would have been nice to see a couple points fleshed out better by the court, perhaps it found these to speak for themselves.
Will wait patiently for your next post on the topic. Don’t know how you’re doing it; I’m nearly ready to break out the cattle prod and shock collars with the two kids I have here right now. I will be SO glad when school starts, tired of breaking up cat fights between them every day. The younger one got on the computer to play NeoPets and wiped out my Firefox session, including a half-hour long email — had only turned my back for a minute to take a phone call. Gah…
So I guess Russ’s censure resolution was moderate and centrist.
Lamont supported it; HoJo, no.
CHS, lookout! WVA airport - passenger’s bottle tests positive for explosives… according to Faux News anyway
Rayne @ 18
Don’t give me any ideas! I got my two as well. Just had to “time out” the younger brother for walloping his sister.
LOVED that ad where the parents are shopping for back to school and the song is “It’s the most wonderful time of the year…!”
TPM Muckraker has a statement from the Justice Department.
Wingnuttia is of course already calling this “Democrat appointed judge sides with terrorists”. Can’t we just euthanize those fukkers? hehe
Clearly, BushCo and the Wingnutosphere are still operating in a Pre 8/08 mindset! Get with the program boys, or get replaced.
President Andrew Jackson: “Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it.”
President George W. Bush: “Fuck her!”
Oh MSNBC has a poll up about the decision, go vote!
Yes, this is truly great news in what’s already been a great week for the good fight!
As I told Weeder downthread a ways, I adopted my FDL nym in protest of Bushco’s unAmerican activities. I’m thinking that perhaps now I should change it to “In Need of Surveillance in Buscho’s View or Not, Warrantless Spying on American Citizens is Unconstitutional!”. . .even if it is a tad wordy.
Way to judge, Judge!
The only thing I’ve been disappointed about so far is that no one seems to float the Keith case as a S.Ct state secrets v. exec immunities/privilege case. Still, I’d be worried about being a journalist like Priest or Risen right now.
The Ninth Cir is already in motion on the ATT case and the 6th cir is going to be up next with Judge Diggs case. Neither are super friendly to the citizen in the inevitable citizen & Constitution v. Executive and lawbreaking confrontation coming - but let’s just hope for the best.
This leaves Judge Ellis’ AIPAC/Espionage ruling as the next route for the anti-Constituion pro-Lawbreaking AG and his dept.
Time to intimidate some journalists - after all, if they hadn’t put the stories out, Judges Walker and DIggs wouldn’t have had so much to work with.
twolf1 @ 20
Did someone drop a Momento in their coke?
Mary for now @ 27
…or maybe a Joemento
I can’t understand why FDL isn’t covering the real news of the day, JonBenet’s “killer’s” arrest!
/thanks, Redd, for an island of sanity, dosed with “what really matters” amidst this TradMed insanity on CableNotNews today!
Old Sow @ 17
those cluster bombs were precisely the munitions that Israel had run out of and that the Bush Admin was rushing expedited shipment to get over there …
The Lebanese know this …
Kurt @ 26
vote here
Mary for now @ 27
I forget …
Imperch I say, Imperch!
Mother’s Day is August 22 around here
(that’s when the kids go back to school)
I’m gonna miss the little devils’ morning adventures
For Charlie Brown fans here is a link to his great new ad. Is Doolittle corrupt or ineffective? Listen, see the web site and vote.
Kurt @
25
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14394523/
have at it comRADs . . .
JWR @ 22
places fingers in ears while dancing the I-can’t- hear-you-dance and singing loudly lalalalalalalalaaaaaaa!
(referring to Justice Dpt, not JWR)
what’s this about our presnit being a criminal ???
wonder how long it’s gonna take the repuglicans to remember “It’s about the LAW”
cuz it sure wasn’t about a blow job, was it ???
so if Clinton wasn’t impeached for a blow job, what WAS Clinton impeached for
if it was just cuz repuglicans didn’t like Clinton, then what is bush crying about ???
Damn…I was just getting used to the clicking noises on all my phone calls.
(of course, I know you wouldn’t hear any clicking while they listen these days; I’m just thinking about the old days when wiretapping at least gave you a sporting chance!)
I couldn’t help myself.
my apologies EPU but I had to share.
From the last thread.
Bustednuckles says
August 17th, 2006 at 12:23 pm*
Evil Parallel Universe @ 161
Mary - I think she went a little further. I read the opinion and took out of it - writ large - that neither the president NOR any law is above the constitution, and that is the starting point.
EPU, I believe you have just been EPU’d.
CNN - tony snow released statement. Doj Will seek stay and appeal.
weeder @ 37
JWR @ 22
Whew. Scared me for a minute there. :p
CNN - The U.S. Department of Justice has announced that it will appeal a federal judge’s ruling that the government’s warrantless wiretapping program is unconstitutional.
H Reid has a statement released too but I couldn’t type that fast
This decision is headed straight to the supremes. If they don’t affirm, we will have officially become a fascist state.
Now we get to see how the packed supreme court will treat the constitution.
Will they roll over for the unitary executive and buy into that “we are at war” crap.
We are now positioned in the middle of a civil war kicked off by our presence.
Time long passed to get us out of others’ wars…
Google “failure” (quick, before somebody fixes it).
old sow #17
glad to see you feel that way too — i’m sad that 100 senators & 98% of our representatives voted to smother any debate on our foreign policy
DOJ:
we believe the program is lawful
except for the part where there is no law that authorizes it
and protects civil liberties
as long as we don’t have to include the ones in the Bill of Rights.
THIS is exactly why the Bush adminsitration is a failed effort in Iraq. If you take one of the greatest democracies on the face of the earth and completely confiscate and corrupt its Dept of Justice to supporting totalitarian attacks on the Bill of RIghts, the Courts and COngress—- that does not exactly make you the “go to” guys for establishing a “liberal democracy” to overcome the ME radical fundamentalists.
George Wahabi Bush.
lotus @ 45
this bomb has been in place for 5 years . . . i doubt it is gonna go anywhere!!
Kurt @ 23
Wingnuttia is of course already calling this “Democrat appointed judge sides with terrorists”. Can’t we just euthanize those fukkers?
Someone has to step up to design and mass market a ’self-rapture’ kit. I think that’s the kindest way.
Boy, it will be interesting to see how this plays out with the congress. Just one more nice solid nudge to get their butts out of the Bush camp.
Bush will probably be wondering why the courts don’t appreciate all that he has done for them.
Like previous court decisions, I don’t expect the Bush government to abide by this. While many of us feel Bush should clearly be impeached for any number of reasons, I wonder if continuing the domestic surveillance in open defiance of this ruling could make the illegal government too obvious to ignore?
I suspect we’re still months away from real accounting, putting us well past the election. But there’s always hope—after all it took months and months and months for the Watergate scandal to evolve.
Justice Department says it will appeal judge’s decision
oh lotus, for SHAME!
tee-hee
lotus @ 45
LMAO!
Hastert’s already calling on Congressional Dems to join in and find a legislative remedy.
Hmmm, let’s see. Retroactively make criminal activities by elected officials legal and proper.
And the precedent gets used by….
I love the history lessons Judge Taylor gives us in her opinion. And her reiteration of the clear and firm requirements of the Fourth Amendment is like salve on a wound, after listening to the endless butchering of the intent of our Founders, and the clear law of the land, by the likes of Arlen Specter. This nation IS unique - and a lot of Americans are relearning just how fundamental the freedoms of the “powerless” in this country really are, thanks to our Founders and their wisdom as expressed and preserved in our Constitution.
Congress needs to get into the act, at long, long last, to ensure that this invisible program is visibly terminated, should no stay be issued.
Thanks, Senator Feingold for being so quick on the draw in response. And talk about a clear and compelling case for impeachment proceedings, should this decision stand…
Some of my friends called Arkansas Democratic Senator Mark Pryor’s office today and asked why he insists on rebuking the Democratic party by backing non-Democrat Joe Lieberman. His staff is giving the same tired spiel of blah-blah, friends, etc. Basically, Pryor and the other Dems are going their merry maverick way because….because they can. Why doesn’t Harry Reid show some backbone and stand up to these renegades? It’s past time!
tried to take a nap in anticipation of the night shift ahead - NOT! way too excited to miss a chance at hearing CHS on this
my favorite part in the Opinion PDF released
“CLOSED”
IANAL, but from all learned here, it really looks like Her Honor left zero wiggle room on anything - “direct or indirect” - it’s as if she knew where Abu and the other traitorous bastards would go if she left anything dangling
from my 1/2 a thimble full of legal knowledge, it also looks pretty damn appellate proof - guess we’ll see what tortured ass, contorted gobbledygook they bring - am actually kinda counting on that - thinking even Scalia thinks too much of his shit to stoop to Yoo’s amateurish dreck
OMG - how can the terrorist not win if DOJ is reduced to “only” being authorized to wiretap people where
a)there is no reasonable grounds to believe that a crime has been or will be committed, but they person may no a foreigner; and
b)they can go ahead and listen for 72 hours while deciding to even ask for that “hey, there’s no reason to think this guy is involved with a crime of any kind, but he may be in contact with an Israeli” warrant.
WOe is woe.
FIVE FREAKING YEARS to ask for legislation and operate under it.
Evil creeps.
Dumb (ianal) question here. Can the administration have an appeal in this case without a stay?
OT - Thinkprogress
Now, even the administration admits this rosy scenario is becoming less likely by the day.
gbear @ 50
707
Does anyone know if the Dems will be removing Lieberman from his committee positions and whatnot? I heard some talk about it right when he lost and that was about it.
puppethead @ 51
All I can say hope is - more laws broken, longer sentence.
This is a permanent injunction, right? Doesn’t that mean that they have to stop spying on us until the appeal is heard? And won’t BushCo blame future attacks on this Democrat-appointed judge, since they’ve got no legal Plan B to fallback on?
Eureka Springs, AR @ 59
IANAL, but she said STOP!
Oh, and Arlen?
Quit licking your balls,thats disgusting.
I decided to take the time to read the decision, and I have to say that Judge Taylor takes a decidedly dim view of what this administration has done – she repeatedly reminded that the president is a creation of the very Constitution that has been violated.
Her closing delivers the most powerful punch, in my opinion. She quotes Justice Warren, writing in US v Robel:
Have to say that reading this made me feel like a patriot, and exposed in a particularly succinct way the administration’s utter disdain for the Constitution and the rule of law.
This indeed was a victory for the nation.
sorry, more OT - MoveOn.org petition RNC to withdraw support for Sen. Allen.
http://political.moveon.org/withdrawallen/
karen allen - See my comment on the Arkansas response from the last thread.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200.....ent-248330
CT Bob @ 40
Beat me to it! LOL
Bustednuckles — BWAH!!
Which reminded me about the old joke: Why does Specter lick…
Yeah. Because.
So, do the NSA guys at the phone company reading my e-mail have to stop doing so, or does the appeal render the injunction entirely moot for the time being?
Yes. My understanding is that they are going to do two things.
First, ask Judge Diggs to stay the effect of her order injoining the program while they go up on appeal. Apparently, the Plaintiffs have voluntarily agreed to a stay of the injunction for the period of time it will take Gov to get in front of Judge Diggs and argue their request.
Second, they are going to appeal her ruling. Now, if she doesn’t give them what they want on the stay, they may immediately request that the appellate court stay and it could do that as well.
I have to say, with such a strong opinion on the violations of law and of the Fourth Amendment (and First, but 4th especially) I think you have to go through some substantial contortions to say, “ok, well, you are breaking the law and violating the Constitution as we speak, but what the heck, keep going while you appeal”
I don’t see it - I think she’s going to say - you’ve got FISA, use it.
I don’t know what the 6th will say. Bush has put on half something like half the current judges in the Sixth (including one of my law profs).
Perennial dinkweed and whiner in chief about ‘partisan politcs’ Orrin Hatch has just re-affirmed the Bush/Cheney/Coulter/Lieberman talking point that Al Qaeda is cheering for a Democratic win in November.
So in other words, the US should allow Al Qaeda to determine who we vote for.
Why does Orrin Hatch take his talking points from Osama Bin Laden.
-GSD
Does this ruling give honest, patriotic employees of the NSA (and other agencies that have implemented other programs at Abu’s behest) the right to say “No” to their bosses if asked to spy without a warrant today? In the face of this injunction, can’t employees cite it in reporting supervisorial requests to the Inspector General? If evidence comes to light that the NSA continued the program henceforth, what penalties could the judge levy? Could we see Hayden’s NSA successor held in contempt? Or AG Abu G? Negroponte?
I’d like to point out the East German Secret Police, aka the Stasi, operated “legally”. There’s a big difference between legal and what we consider a free society.
Eureka Springs: Mentor or not, what Pryor is doing is joining an effort to fragment the Democratic party. It’s wrong.
JWR @ 72
I don’t think the email reading part of the program is necessarily stayed.
DefJef @ 45
Exactly.
karen allen @ 77
Pre-primary, we were willing to excuse these rationalizations from people like Senator Boxer who cited their “long friendship with and loyalty to” RGJoe. Sorry, Pryor, that dog won’t hunt. Resign your VC-DSCC job now or be pilloried (metaphorically).
Old Sow, you still here?
LindaR @ 79
Thanks, Gang of Fourteen!
Looks like that cloture-on-Alito vote was the whole enchilada, after all!
Re: Orrin Hatch…
Gosh, you’d think with such an uncanny ability to divine the thoughts of al Qaeda, all of these visionaries could do a decidedly better job of bringing them under control, wouldn’t you?
But maybe that’s just application of the imagination that was so sorely lacking in the months leading up to 9/11, even in the face of PDB’s with pretty obvious titles, like, “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”
Sickening.
Al-Qaeda is cheering for the Republicans - no one hates the US Constitution quite as much as Islamic Fundamentalists and Republicans.
OT to make you laugh- Some nice George Allen snark.
Pryor is entitled to any loyalties, friendships, whatever, that he wants, as an individual. However, he is a sitting member of the Democratic Senatoral Campaign Committee. If he feels he must at all costs support Lieberman, then he should do the right thing and resign from the DSCC.
NYT now has its Taylor-ruling story up.
Someone needs to just quote Bush back to Hatch:
Ok, you’ve covered your ass, you can go home now.
Saw this announced on another site earlier. I wshouldn’t have been but I was surprised by the number of bush cultist who believe this illegal spying had something to do with ‘cracking’ the london bomb plots.
karen allen @ 57
Maybe the not-a-democrat tactic won’t work on these guys, but the handing-the-Republicans-everything-they-need-to-campaign-against-all-Dems might.
Mary - This got EPU’d (i.e. me’d)
I think she went a little further. I read the opinion and took out of it - writ large - that neither the president NOR any law is above the constitution, and that is the starting point.
karen allen @ 76
Absolutely and thank you, Karen. *g*
oh Anne, definitely putting that one in my talking points quiver - poifect!
I am disturbed by Pryors choice of mentor!
Karen Allen and Eureka Springs -
loosely related comment on this - bottom of last thread
EPU,
see # 40.
I see. Thank you.
James Otis concurs
When Bush, Gonzales, et al say things like
“We can’t do our jobs without the power to ignore the Constitution,”
why don’t Democrats say
“So you admit you are incompetent; why don’t you resign?”
Bustednuckles @ 41
I’m not sure how that is going further than what I said, but I agree with it.
I was answering on the datamining where she went along with state secrets, and where I think the 4th is not implicated in quite the same fashion.
She and Walton are leaving a bit up in the air, though, what happens with State Secrets when you have a claim of govt lawbreaking. They both dodged a bit by talking about existing public disclosures vis a vis “secret”.
I’m still holding out for the fact that you can not invoke privilege to cover lawbreaking, and that the Keith case stands for that proposition - they did file affidavits to keep the info secret in Keith, meeting, as best I can tell, the three prongs of Reynolds. There was no series of NYT articles that prompted Keith to rule against the invocation, though. It was, IMO, a pretty clear decision and confirmed by the Sup Ct that the maxim “the President is not above the law” includes the concept that Presidential privilege cannot be invoked to escape the reach of the law. fwiw
Abu blathering on CNN.
Gonzales talking ’bout ruling on TV now (CNN)
Abu says: but our lawyers say it’s OK !
Abu taking questions.
*ilson46201 @ 103
Up is Down
War is Peace
Unconstitutional is Constitutional
M4n, based on your extremely helpful expanations so far, it sounds as though her reasoning really agrees with Feingold’s Censure motion?
Follow up - by saying that the 4th is not implicated in quite the same way — I am not saying that I think her dismissal supports the notion that the program is legal.
I think she is saying - you guys have to abide by the Constitution and to the extent that Congress passes laws that, per Youngstown’s analysis on separation of powers and reach of Congress, are Constitutional, you have to follow them too. If you aren’t on data mining, I don’t know enough yet to know. You’ve invoked state secrets and I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on your need to keep the program secret, but I’m telling you — lights out means no flashlights under the covers. If you MAKE ME come in there, it won’t be pretty.
abu - “president is doing what he believes in necessary to protect the country. within the constitution”
She and
WaltonWalker —I keep doing it.
That decision was delightful. No. No. It was brilliant. No, no, no, no. There is no word to describe its perfection, so I am forced to make one up. And I’m going to do so right now. Scrumtrilescent.
LindaR @ 99
Or, perhaps, as Judge Diggs Taylor pointed out, “Without the Constitution, you would not have a job.”
twolf1 @ 107
or rather, “within his interpretation of the constitution”
I hate when my tinfoil hat starts making that crinkly sound. Incumbents disregarding party lines, republicans disregarding party lines, executive branch disregarding rule of law despite public butt-smacking, possibility of supreme court disregarding rule of law.
Just waiting for Grand Moff Tarkin to pull over my ambassadorial vessel and tell me what happened to the senate.
The Hatch/Goebbels Talking Points.
Mr. Hatch, was Al Qaeda emboldened by the ALL Republican Congress and Senate and Whitehouse on 9/11?
Why are you allowing the wishes of Osama Bin Laden to determine American elections?
Mr. Hatch, does your head cave in when you take a shit?
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_4194186
-GSD
-GSD
Mary - I was referring to the fact that you mentioned the Preznit was not above the law as enacted by Congress as the meaning of her decision. I really thought she went farther than that, that the starting point isn’t the law enacted by Congress, b/c a law duly enacted by congress and signed by the Preznit stating the Preznit can violate the 4th amendment would still be violative of Constitutional protections.
If you meant that, then I misinterpreted what you were saying.
See Jack Balkin (Yale Law) analysis:
http://balkin.blogspot.com/200.....n-nsa.html
By the way, I could use FDL’ers help with a blog article I’m working on. If you have 5 or so minutes to spare, please check out my blog for the details. Thanks in advance :)
Bull.
Gonzales’ testimony consisted of whining that the applications for warrants are thick and, like being President, hard work.
What someone NEEDS to say when Gonzales whines, “but OUR lawyers say…” is
THEN FIRE THEM AND HIRE SOMEONE COMPETENT
Mr. Hatch,
By claiming that Al Qaeda is hoping or a Democratic Congress in order to attack America then you must admit that Al Qaeda was aware of the Republican Congress when they attacked the USS Cole and the African Embassies and the barracks in Saudi Arabia?
-GSD
It doesn’t matter what Abu’s “lawyers say.” And someone should point that out to him. It only matters what the federal courts say, and today I am happy with what they are saying.
Unless Abu wants to argue that the Executive is not subject to Federal Court constitutional oversight. And that would be a great dem theme song for 06 or 08.
Cafferty states the obvious once again!
Pryor is donating money to Joe from his personal war chest. Money donated by Democrats in Arkansas. Many are just livid and asking for money back. *g*
cbl 165 last thread - Pryor says “the Democrats need moderate voices“,
On our local blog, cries for support of Pryor and a moderate voice have no examples of substance to support their plea. Some are substantial donors who try to compare Clinton moderate with Pryor/Lieberman moderates. Even that dog wont hunt imo.
go cafferty go
klyde #89
bush & his lackeys have been insinuating that nsa helped break the phoney british plot — that’s why bush cultists believe it — if you polled americans in general, you might be sickened by the results, considering how so many still think saddam virtually piloted all four planes on 9/11
LindaR @ 120
“GET A WARRANT!”
Evil Parallel Universe @ 114
We’re on the same page EPU. I think she very clearly said that as well. Once she finished talking about FISA violations, she mentioned the “oh but Defendants say FISA may be unconstitutional” whine and just kicked it in the netherpart by saying—
Who cares? You violated the 4th Amendment too you idiots!
I am just drawing my Constitutional horns in a bit on the dragnet type programs where she, for now, went along with the state secrets defense, because I think the law gets a lot more complex there. Even there, though, she seems to be saying that unless Congress operated outside of the parameters recognized in Youngstown, a President has to follow the law as well as the Constitution (bill of rights), bc the Constitution requires that as a part of separation of powers.
Cafferty:
4-5pm question: What does a federal judge’s ruling that the National Security Agency spying program is illegal mean for President Bush?
respond here
wow!! jack cafferty was on fire today about the ruling. a big amen. hope C&L gets the clip soon
Jack Cafferty is smokin! I’m surprised they didn’t cut his microphone. Wow. Go Jack Go.
Evil Parallel Universe @ 119
That’s lovely. That’s what we should encourage all the talkig heads to ask:
Are you saying the President is above the law as determined by the courts Mr. Gonzales?
If so, didn’t you lie to Congress when you said the opposite?
Should you be impeached for lying to Congress, or for breaking the law?
twolf1 @ 126
The answer is, it means nothing for President Bush. The only court ruling he ever paid attention to was that in Bush vs Gore.
Mary for now –
Are you Mary the lawyer?
I’m sure we’ll be hearing Henry Hyde screaming “Rule of law! Rule of law!” any moment now, won’t we?
The Times report also has a picture of Judge Taylor, which the WaPo article does not. If you haven’t seen it yet, it’s worth stopping by for a look. She looks very gentile and fragile, but given the right stimulus, I think she could spit bullets. One tough looking gal. Appointed by Carter in ‘79, 27 years on the federal bench, not a rookie.
Obviously the ruling will be appealed and work its way up to SCOTUS. Then it will be the moment of truth for Alito and Roberts. Another 5-4 decision, but which way?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08.....r=homepage
look, i can’t help it but i’m wondering not only whether bush, knowing from nsa how the judge was going to rule, forced the pakistanis & then the brits to arrest those phoney plotters when they did, but since thailand’s investigators had been following that jonbenet suspect for 21 days, i’m wondering whether bush forced the colorado prosecutor to engineer his arrest just now so as to drown out this ruling — last i heard colorado was red
Eureka Springs-
just reading that set off all kinds of alarm bells - I could smell the consultant stench here in Texas
fyi - for those of you who’ve yet to read Greenwald
The judge is an African American Woman who graduated from Yale Law School in 1957.
Can you say Semi Tough ?
Mary for now @ 129
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Gonzales, Addington, Yoo, and Associates won’t be happy until they’ve overturned Marbury v Madison. Looks like Taylor isn’t going to let that happen with a ruling that has her name attached to it.
“Terrorists are waiting for the Democrats here to take control, let things cool off and then strike again.”
– Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT), quoted by the Salt Lake Tribune.
I hope that Cafferty’s rant just a few minutes ago gets put up on Crooks and Liars. Please, please, please. He b-slapped the heck out of Toolbin’s comments as well as Leslie’s mumblings!
Go JACK go!!!
OT
DarkBlack I found it, left a thank you at the end of the morning thread. That is, when I finally managed to stop laughing. Heeeeeyyy…Macrackerena!
From Chris Bowers at MyDD;
This is the only appropriate ruling to an obviously illegal program. Censuring Bush would have been more than appropriate.
http://www.mydd.com/
Scroll down for post.
Mary for now @
84
You got it down, girl.
Kurt, I took the survey (had some trouble due to funky phrasing of some questions) and will gladly send you my results.
BUT
1) I couldn’t figure out the menu that right-clicking on the result-graph presented, so will just my headlined numeric result work for you?
2) I can’t find the email-me link on your blog (color-on-black always messes me up), so could you please supply your addy here?
GSD @
113
G you be
one wicked
mo fo!
I have placed my aluminum derby firmly on my head and I am making this declaration.
I think the Bush/Coulter Republican Party is doing everything possible to throw the election to the Democrats and the Lieberman/LannyDavis/DLC Democrats are doing everything they can to throw the election right back at the Republicans.
This latest quote from the Florida Bush/Coulter Republican who was the front runner to replace Katherine “Courtney Love” Harris.
The quote:
“I grew up in Alabama, and I understand, and I know this from my own experience, that blacks are not the greatest swimmers or may not even know to swim.”
Paging George Wallace, George Allen and Jimmy The Greek.
-GSD
Coming up NOW on CNN w/ Wolf.
Donna Brazile vs Bill Bennett, oogh!
God, (and I’m not religious) please let this ruling stand.
Can it possibly be that my Country is coming back to me? That the rule of law is finally raising its head from the cesspool of lawlessness in which this Administration would have us swim, and is taking a deep, refreshing breath of law-laden oxygen?
The smear machine is going to get ugly. But you know what? They want an ugly fight–and many of us true Patriots are ready to roll up our sleeves and brawl. I know I am.
GSD @ 143
There’s a tin foil hat for every occasion here
on Lamont vs Lieman
Anybody have any opinion on this lawsuit to try to compell Rove/Cheney testimony in Plamegate?
http://www.alertnet.org/thenew.....401689.htm (from Reuters)
GSD - I don’t think Congress was all Rep on 9/11.
My brain hurts at the thought that “Vote Repbulican, bc it will scare al-Qaeda if we have crooks running the country” is a real, serious, campaign platform in this country.
frightened white folks are feeling their backs are to the wall — they’re dwindling in numbers although they hold the strings
it didn’t help their sense of well being that america’s client in the middle east has shown that it’s a failed state
CNN - AP says FBI spokesman says ‘explosive’ at WV airport was gel-like facial cleanser.
-if they can’t quickly determine the difference between cosmetics and explosives, there are big problems.
Breaking news from MSNBC: Judge orders tobacco companies to warn that smoking is addictive.
Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14395333/
GSD @
137
______________
Yeah. “Waiting?” Somehow I missed that. They don’t appear to be waiting for anything in Iraq, or Afghanistan, or in the UK.
.
There’s a tin foil hat for every occasion here
Oooo, a Chaplin — or mebbe a Kutcher — for me, please. But what, no beret?!
orangejumpsuit @ 133
I don’t really know. I can actually see Scalia voting against Gov on this, if he doesn’t roll on the state secrets part. While he is fine with just about anything the President does to non citizens or not on American soil, he was more ready than all the “moderate” in Hamdi to throw GOv to the wolves on the Hamdi detention without trial. He flat called them on it (I remember uses of “transmorgify”).
So IF he addresses on the merits, with respect to the impact on US ctizens, on US soil, of a five year program of trolling without warrants - I don’t think he’s a safe gov vote. I think Alito and Roberts may be safer for Gov than Scalia is, fwiw.
OT - and apologies if this was mentioned anywhere her today, but I just saw on Media Matters that Imus’ producer said that the suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey case “looks like Ned Lamont, actually. Is this who Connecticut wants to represent it?”
Am just stunned by that.
BobbyG gets another rant in the paper:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sun.....36184.html
:)
klyde @
89
I suspect the only role for US spying in the London bomb plot involved intercepting the communications of the British Police and/or Intelligence Services. I don’t doubt for a minute that was what the “administration official” really meant by “terrorist chatter”
GSD @ 136
I find it fascinating how informed about the nuances of terrorist thought these Republican leaders are. Oh wait, the Republicans are terrorizing the United States also…that explains everything!
Maybe if BushCo were actually trying to catch Osama, instead of blowing it off and then disbanding the agency looking for him, we’d be safer today.
Anne @ 157
My. God. Anne, I think that requires a lawsuit and a firing by close-of-business today.
nice - one response to cafferty’s question:
jail to the chief
lotus @ 141
Actually saving the graph proved to be wonky, and resulted in an image with no data in it,so the numerical results are necessary…sorry bout that. All of the other images on their site save fine, go figure.
My email is on the “view my complete profile” link at the upper right of the blog if you want the results to be confidential for some reason. Or you can just leave them in the comments over there too, your choice.
twolf1 @ 161
ROFL twolf1, I saw that too, what was even better he ended with that one for the emails on his question. Nice finish.
Thanks, Kurt.
OTs from Raw Story:
Cunningham’s wife tells all: Knives, guns, gay-bashing and delusion
Parents of Recruit Claim Army Made False Promises, Forged Documents
Well, no, wait. The topic being our lawless gummint, scratch my ”OTs.”
Kurt, ygm.
Terror Concerns Bother Both Parties
Just such a fantabulous day.
EPU’d…
Make your own custom Colbert “On Notice” Board: http://www.shipbrook.com/onnotice/
Murtha is on hardballs…
lotus @ 46
They haven’t fixed it in a few years, I wouldn’t worry too much about it now.
On the other hand, a certain shrieking harpy just found out about it. Teh heh!!!
Cafferty vid is up at C&L
twolf1 @
152
ThinkProgress reports the following:
Although I’m not suggesting that this is happening, it is tempting to wonder if the money is being spent instead to install panic buttons that are pushed too hastily.
dayam, go Jack!
I think he’s been talkin’ to Mary… *g*
Who is going to force the adminstration to abide by any court ruling? Who?
Sorry, I’m quite discouraged today.
kurt - I re-took the test and sent you number results.
twolf1 @ 147
Unfortunately tinfoil hats are a government conspiracy. I shredded mine.
http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/
OK, thunder, I mighta deserved the shrieking harpy for not knowing this was an old joke — but as soon as I saw the URL, that was enough for me . . .
No more Pammy, Ann, or Malkin for this kid, even if it means I miss a thread here or there. Life be too short to spend any more of mine than I already have in their company.
OldCoastie @ 170
Great article on Murtha from McClatchy (formerly Knight-Ridder): Months after making headlines, John Murtha’s popularity booming
I guess what it comes down to with this administration is the question: Can the Constitution grant the president so much power that it’s no longer able to contain him? Given the current lack of oversight, the answer would be yes, it can.
OT- back to the Pyror thing. Perhaps questions to Pryor need to be phrased differently: Senator Pryor, what would be your response if you had just won a primary against another D candidate, and a member of the DSCC chose to endorse the other, losing candidate instead of you?
Jenny from the Blog @ 175
Rulings may not stop them from giving the orders, but there are plenty of people working at NSA and other agencies who take the legalities quite seriously, having been burned in the spying scandals that resulted in the creation of FISA. They also know full well that they can’t expect the next administration to keep illegal activities under wraps. These rulings say to those people that these activities are illegal, and there is no “just following orders” defense. They threaten those who go along with the lawbreaking, and provide strength to those who would prefer to act within the law.
It may not be as satisfying as seeing administration figures frogmarched from the White House, but it does make a difference.
lotus 177 - awomen.)
kurt - damn, I am standing on Ghandi’s head in that test. Never really thought of Ghandi that way. *g*
EPU’d:
Grodd @ 174
Redshift- nice response #182. Thanks.
Valley Girl @ 181
EXACTLY WHAT I’VE BEEN THINKING!!! How would any of these people in office feel if they worked their guts out to win a primary and were dismissed by their own party?
THANK YOU FOR saying this, Valley Girl.
I just now saw the news, so let me just say for the record:
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW!
Valley Girl @ 180
Good one, but the more I learn about Pryor, he is a clone of Joe and would act in the same poor fashion.
Redshift -
Yes, I agree with your position and do hope these NSA employees are willing to lose their jobs in the short-term to follow the law.
Kurt –
E L/R: -5.00
S L/A: -7.18
That score has shifted over the last 4 years; the E L/R remained the same, but the S L/A shifted down and to the left by 1.5 points.
Radicalization in progress, thanks in no small part to increased consciousness about domestic spying and implementation of PatAct extention.
Redshift -
I did not mean my 189 to come off as snark. I really think it’s going to take a slew of government “concientious objectors” who put their allegience to the constitution and the law and the courts above their livelihoods and family. I don’t know.
Eureka- but I said ask Pryor how he would feel if he had WON a primary and a DSCC member was supporting the loser!
lotus @ 178
Oh, don’t worry, lotus, the shrieking harpy is pammy.
Also, I don’t read those nasty parts of the blogostomy either, Sadly, No! does it for us.
What might bother Bush the most is the judge’s assertion that there “are no hereditary Kings in America”. However, it’s doubtful that any aide will mention and it’s definite that Bush will not read the opinion. There are way too many big words. Most likely, Bush will be riding his bike with no idea that anything has happened.
Oh, don’t worry, lotus, the shrieking harpy is pammy.
Oh, I know, thunder — what I meant was, I spied her URL and beat feet outta there before it could load whatever shrieking she’s doing today.
Valley Girl @ 191
I read that correctly. LOL Don’t ask him to be consistent…
http://www.firedoglake.com/200.....ent-248330
Jane thread
new thread
Mary For Now,
You are right. Apparently Al Qaeda waited for James Jeffords to defect to Independent, tossing only the US Senate into the hands of the Democrats. On 9/11 it was divided at 50 for Dems, 49 for Republicans and Jeffords as the Independent with Deadeye Dick Cheney, shotgunner of 78 year old men as the tie-breaker.
Congress and the Whitehouse were still under control of the Bush/Coulter Republican Party.
Damn that Jeffords.
-GSD
Eureka Springs, AR @ 182
Hey now, stop abusing Ghandi! :)
Thanks for the responses guys, I’ll be collecting the data for a few days to a week or two most likely.
I’m still boiling about that Imus producer’s slander that Anne found. Talk about “the coarsening of our culture”!
But given Grodd’s comments on Nutmegger political sensibilities, how could witless skeeziness of that order hurt Ned/help Joe?
From CNNs story about the decision:
“In a statement from the White House, Press Secretary Tony Fox”
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITI.....index.html
Heh.
TWolf–I am now here………..how can I help you……
Rayne @ 189
Interestingly my own social number has been pretty much constant since college, but the economic number has shifted dramatically left…starting with the Enron scandal, and propelled along further by the continuing corporatist greed of ChimpCo’s backers. I was quite surprised at how much of a change it was.
OS, I have an article for you about the Maine Beastie
OS, here it is:
http://www.cryptomundo.com/cry.....inebeast2/
G.Gordon Liddy endorses RGJoe on Hardball.
“Know them by the company they keep.”
I really don’t understand why the adminstration can’t follow the FISA law unless there is something more than wiretapping terrorists involved. According to what I read, all they have to do is file warrants after the fact if the need to wiretap is immediate. What’s so hard about that? Are they lazy? Incompetent? Or hiding something else?
Mary at 117-RIGHT ARM!! (Right On with a fist held up in the air!!)
Anne at 157–(out loud) Oh My God, those a**holes……
Twolf…I can better accept the feral dog description than the “mutant hybrid”………mwahahahahahah
TeddySanFran @ 30
How long do you think they’ve been ready to roll this guy up, just waiting til they needed him for
propagandajustice?Remember that there’s also a separate, ongoing domestic spying lawsuit. Today’s ruling is about international calls, not about purely domestic spying. Both are important.
The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a donor-supported non-profit, filed in January and got Walker’s ruling in July. Just this month 17 newer domestic spying lawsuits were moved into Walker’s jurisdiction, and Walker’s ruling was quoted in today’s ruling.
What the EFF has done is core to these cases, yet they haven’t gotten recognition, or thanks, from major bloggers. Back when Walker’s ruling came out, everyone loved what the EFF did, but no one suggested donating to them.
While the EFF gets results as if they’re a large organization, they’re not. The EFF has also been fighting for bloggers’ rights (big win for online journalists earlier this summer) and against disenfranchisement.
If you like what they do, if you like Walker’s ruling and how it helped today’s ruling, please thank the EFF. (And a ‘donate’ button is a great form of thanks. Note- I know people there and am a supporter: that’s why I’m writing about how bloggers forgot the EFF’s work.)
Are they lazy? Incompetent? Or hiding something else?
Yes.
Sorry, everyone. No way this survives the Supremes, who are now populated by people who are conditioned from Day 1 of their lives to “respect authority.”
You might even call them, “Catholics.”
And boy would I like to eat some crow on this prediction.
213 It might be OK if the authority they chose to respect is the Constitution.
Bravo ACLU and Judge Anna Diggs Taylor!
Remarkable that O’Reilly and Hannity haven’t had anything to say about this.
Hardball had a brief piece, but nothing on the other two wingnuts’ shows.
Did I miss something?
Gore’s MLK-Day Speech on Wiretaps and the Rule of Law
Let us remember Gore’s MLK-Day speech, where he said: I mentioned that along with cause for concern, there is reason for hope. As I stand here today, I am filled with optimism that America is on the eve of a golden age in which the vitality of our democracy will be re-established and will flourish more vibrantly than ever. Indeed I can feel it in this hall.
Watch the video (has a pdf transcript as well). Text Transcript.
Thanks.
Some notes on ACLU v. NSA (Higgs, J.) and Hepting v. AT&T (Walker, J.).
1. Judge Vaughan Walker, who rejected the states secret doctrine in AT&T, got assigned the consolidated case. Bush wanted the cases sent to DC. His argument was mocked. (”What, you want to let even more judges in on your dirty little secrets? Who are you trying to kid?”) Good for us!
2. Judge Higgs dismissed ACLU’s complaint about data-mining. The injunction only covers wiretaps. Shows balance. It’s enough for now.
3. She ably weaves through the state secrets cases. The feds came clean on all the needed facts (thanks to “friend of al-Qaeda” NYT). Think where we’d be without that story!
4. Since the program exists by the feds’ own admission they can’t question its existence.
5. They also can’t show they’d need to reveal secrets to defend the case. Higgs said the disclosures she read in private were irrelevant. Their public arguments are on point but unavailing. Her conclusion: “disingenuous and without merit.”
6. She found the ACLU had standing to sue. Main issue: were plaintiffs really hurt? Holding: Yes. Reason: The lawyers lost clients, the journalists sources. Precedent: An enviro who can no longer fish a stream because it reeks can sue. Foil: An enviro who had fond hopes of maybe some day going to the Ozarks to see a snail darter can’t sue (too hypothetical). Etc. Good reasoning. Hard to pierce (but leave it to Thomas to find a way).
7. A dictum on standing: By its nature the spy program creates no self-aware plaintiffs. Thus it could never be challenged under harsh standing doctrine. The Constitution was not excerpted from a Kafka novel, so this is untenable. Not her words, but you see the point!
8. I highly recommend Part IV - IX, which go into the Constitution and the history of its development. It’s all we’ve got, folks!
Here are highlights, which I’ll treat as shoutouts:
a. “Yo, Hayden! There’s a Warrant Clause buried in that Fourth Amendment, and that’s because the executive needs a just to stay honest.”
b. “Yo, Roberts! Jackson’s concurrence in the Steel Case — which you praised almost weepingly in those confirmation hearings — is directly on point. We’ll be watching for you to uphold — and keep those tears flowing!”
c. “Yo, Justice Kennedy! You said in Hamdi there’s no liberty without separation of powers. Don’t turn to the dark side on us.”
d. “Yo, Prez! When you use your powers think of yourself as ‘created by the Constitution,’ not by the God who speaks to you. No divine right, no inheritance from Herbert Walker. Think of it this way: If you do less you get more vacation.”
e. “Yo, Yoo. No inherent powers. It’s strict construction time. No legislating from the Oval Office! Read that quaint Constitution:
‘[a]ll legislative Powers herein granted
shall be vested in a Congress of the United States.’” They meant it. Actually they meant YOO.
f. “Yo, Hastert. Congress can’t give Bush the power to spy illegally. There’s still a Constitution. Wanna share a cell with Yoo?”
9. The Authorization for the Use of Military Force did not empower Bush to spy. Anyone surprised?
10. No emergency powers, not even for GWOT. Constitution doesn’t say that. The question’s been asked and answered in the courts. Not that he needs them.
That’s enough.
Will this hold up on appeal? I think the Hamdan five should hold tight assuming none of them dies. Kennedy shouldn’t cut and run judging from what he said in Hawaii about signing statements. The opinion’s well-reasoned. As said, Walker’s got most of the rest of the spying cases (except those before public utility commissions), so there’ll be good fact finding and a good record below. Counsel are adept. This case looks well-briefed.
The dark side should find for Bush judging from Hamdan. Scary thing is that three, maybe four justices drank the neocon Kool-Aid. (Did anyone go to oral argument? Was that Kool-Aid face on any of their water pitchers?)
Let’s see what Roberts does. He was off Hamdan (for an awful decision below), but he made so much of Jackson’s concurrence in the Steel Case.
Let Hastert and the noise machine do what they will. The matter is now in testy legal hands.
Please, Oliver Stone! Let George Clooney do the movie!
A 4-4 ruling would still uphold the original ruling, right ???
Yeh, 4-4 sustains the ruling below. But in this case, if Diggs’s ruling is reversed on appeal, THAT’s the ruling that would be undisturbed.
(Apologies for referring to the district judge as “Higgs.” She’s only just becoming famous.)