Bill Clinton spoke with ABC News regarding the Republican attempts to politicize national security issues — and Joe Lieberman’s attempt to do the same in Connecticut. Which, come to think of it is redundant, since Joe Lieberman is the de facto Republican candidate up there now, isn’t it? (H/T to Sirota. And according to Tim, the RNC doesn’t even bother listing the GOP challenger in CT on their blog. Wonder how that happened? I bet it was just a mere oversight by some low-level employee…again.)
ABC has the video of the Clinton interview here. The former President says:
Lieberman has characterized his loss – and the need for his subsequent independent run – as liberals in the party purging those with the Lieberman-Clinton position of progressiveness in domestic politics and strong national security credentials.
"Well, if I were Joe and I was running as an independent, that’s what I’d say, too," Clinton said.
"But that’s not quite right. That is, there were almost no Democrats who agreed with his position, which was, ‘I want to attack Iraq whether or not they have weapons of mass destruction.’"
"His position is the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld position, which was, ‘Does it matter if they have weapons? None of this matters. …
You really need to watch the video to get the mood and the context in which Clinton is saying this, but his demeanor suggests that Lieberman has taken things too far. My favorite quote from the video: "It’s a cartoon — it doesn’t reflect reality." didn’t make it into the ABC affiliate article.
It’s time for Bill Clinton and other Democrats to get their butt to Connecticut and campaign for the Democratic candidate Ned Lamont. John Edwards will be campaigning with Ned on Thursday — so a huge FDL thank you to John Edwards is due. (You can send thanks here.)
You know who won’t be campaigning with Ned? Mark Pryor (D-AR), who has come out as a supporter of Lieberman’s CFL candidacy, despite being in a leadership position with the DSCC. (Yes, you read that correctly.)
Paging Chuck Schumer — you might want to rethink Pryor’s postition, given his tenuous allegiance to actual Democrats instead of de facto Republican Joe Lieberman. Give Chuck a call or a FAX and let him know what you think about this. Better yet, if you live in New York, drop by a local office and tell a staffer in person that the DSCC should stand firmly, loudly, and very publicly behind the elected Democratic nominee in CT. I’m sure Chuck would love to hear from you, as would the DSCC.
(H/T to *ilson and Old Coastie for the heads up on the Clinton interview and clip.)
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NED!
FRooTZ!
I voted for Bill Clinton twice. But I was, and am disapponted in his support for NAFTA,, his ties to the anti-progressive DLC and his “third-way” baloney. As for Lieberman: it’s about time, Bill!
The Dems probably need to strip Pryor of committee memberships as well as Joe. The Dems up to now are really playing with fire here. If a significant contingent of beltway Dems reject the legitimately nominated Dem from CT, the Dem voter backlash would probably be sufficient to keep Congress in the Repub hands. (How can any beltway Dem really believe that the behavior of Joe and Pryor could do anything but lose votes???)
“Why does President Bush keep trying to link the war on terror with the war in Iraq?”
That was from Contessa Brewer on MSNBC this morning. Yay! Glad to see she’s getting more face time on MSNBC.
Has anyone asked Clinton on record if he will be campaigning for Lamont? It would be intersting to see his response.
BTW, the theory “Clinton supported Joe, and Joe agreed to drop out if he lost” has been disproven.
I’m about to take off and am repeating this, but there has been a report that Lamont is going to be on the 1PM eastern CNN news block with Roberts and that Roberts will apologize for the al-Qaeda candidate comment.
Just a heads up if someone catches it. And if it happens, a big thank you to Skippy and some others who have pushed this point.
If you want to do something on a local level with your county/parish Democratic Party or progressive organization, there’s a draft resolution you can present to the organization that supports the outcome of the Connecticut primary.
You’ll need to make sure if it receives support that it gets faxed to the state party, and what the heck, the DNC if you’d like.
Go for it.
I find it bizarre how Lieberman simpered during the VP debates, laid down for for Dubya about the 2000 recount, but now he wants to fight???
We already know the Republicans don’t care about the votes of Americans, Joe is just trying to prove that Democrats don’t care either.
Every Democrat should get behind Lamont as the duly elected nominee for CT, and tell the people, we heard what you said and your votes matter!
Bill’s comments ought to change the tenor of the “debate” about Lieboy’s motivations, and chances of success in this vanity run. Good on him, indeed!
Christy – superwoman.
From EPUville.
egregious @ 101
TAKE ACTION.
Let’s not forget to call or write to Barbara Boxer as well. Her website often has press-releases concerning other matters (Rummy, etc).
However, on Lamont, she is absolutely silent. We have to keep badgering her because other than Murtha, Schumer, Clinton, and a few others, Boxer is one of the more visible and popular Democrats in the Senate (at least among Dems).
She has a knack for putting her point across relatively well. Yet on this issue she has been largely silent. We cannot let her slide on this. I don’t care how much she has spoken out against Bush in the past. Her actions concerning Lieberman and Lamont have got to be scrutinized.
Let’s keep up the pressure on her.
I thought the look on Clinton’s face said a lot. A lot. And I think he’s not at all happy about being co-opted by Lieberman into being part of a failed strategy in Iraq. That Clinton would – correctly – label it the “Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld” position and distance himself from it takes much of the wind out of Lieberman’s effort to put a “bi-partisan” face on that mess.
It shows me that Lieberman knows nothing about triangulating in Clinton fashion – the Lieberman approach is more like beheading, and the head that is rolling is his own.
Mary,
Do you know if it is CNN, or Headline News—where Roberts actually made the statement. I’d like to see it.
BTW, I had the same experience you did watching a few minutes of Kristol on Rose last night—I couldn’t take it either. How does everybody here do it? Here are all the news stations that I cannot watch anymore: CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, HNN, MSNBC (ex: Olbermann), and even Newshour has lost most of it’s credibility for me. What’s left?
That damned Lieberman! If the R’s win again he’s going to be the single sole source reason for it.
Democrat my butt. Duplicitous traitor! Lieberman was tossed OUT of the party on August 8th. Hear that Pryor? Schumer? OUT OF THE PARTY!
I’m just exasperated with these guys. Just fed up with em!
Count another Democratic Senator willing to campaign openly for Lamont. I spoke to Senator Feingold Sunday at his picnic & thanked him for agreeing to support the winner of the Connecticut primary. I then asked him if he would travel to Connecticut & campaign with Lamont. He told me that he has already offered to do that & that he also sent him $5,000 from his PAC. Hope that the Lamont campaign takes him up on his offer. I think he could make a difference.
Finally. But Bill Clinton needs to put his words into very visible action and immediately go to Connecticut and stand beside Ned.
Democracy can only survive if the votes of the people count. How can any Democrat think that the results of the Connecticut primary are irrelevant?
Will Lieberman challenge the results of the vote in November when he loses the general?
Chuck Schumer will hear from me today.
“FEMA will replace locks on as many as 118,000 trailers used by Gulf Coast hurricane victims after discovering the same key could open many of the mobile homes. One locksmith cut only 50 different kinds of keys for the trailers sold to FEMA, officials said Monday. That means, in an example of a worst-case scenario, one key could be used to unlock up to 10 mobile homes in a park of 500 trailers.” (AP)
And what does FEMA tell those of us with trailers? “Be vigilant.” How you gonna be vigilant when you’re at work?
Mary,
Roberts asked that question on Headline News–the Network that proudly supports Glenn “Katrina victims are scumbags” Beck.
Oh that liberal media.
-GSD
I think Bill’s tone was interesting – I think he was mad, but (I laughed) he was using an old school teacher’s technique… when the tension in the classroom gets too high and things are on the verge of getting out of control, sometimes the better response – instead of yelling – is to whisper… it catches everyone’s attention, refocuses the energy…
Wouldn’t it be great to have Bubba back?
OT
Thanks to John Casper for setting me straight
on the possible Rove “flipping” (i.e. Luskin not releasing the letter from Fitzy since it may have other “not so nice” stuff. I’ll buy that possibility…
But, here’s my point: Why couldn’t Fitzgerald
have released the letter, “to open up the window and let some fresh air (truth) in…
Frankly, why not a presser? Why the secrecy.
I hate secrecy… I want to know what my country is up to… Damn, look at Bush and Cheney.
Second, I thought we would have a “Watergate”
moment in which the bad guys are indicted and
the Bush administration is seen for what they
truly are — liars, cheats, seeking the ruin
of American souls…
Ask any man in the street and he’ll tell ya
that Rove walked… we are losing the public
opinion war, Libby’s trial was postponed until
after the elections, time is of the essence…
Bush, Rove and Cheney are masters of deceit
and damn it, I want Bush impeached. He could
bomb Iran.
Thanks for listening to my rant, the only
saving grace is baseball and Firedoglakers. Ah, the game, and this great bunch of people.
Jack
the Lamont campaign, in every public utterance, should label everything they oppose at the “Bush-Cheney-Lieberman position.”
Tie that name to Bush-Cheney at every communications opportunity.
OT
http://poll.gallup.com/content/?ci=24118
left of center @ 16
He mentioned the race as well at the listening session I attended yesterday. He said it is a clear message to the Democrats that they need to wake up to the desires of the American people to get out of Iraq. He reiterated what he told you – he would help Lamont win.
This is Joe Lieberman’s problem — when he was tapped as the VP Nominee, HoJo saw it as his elevation as one of the chosen people.
In other words, Joe saw himself as the chosen person. It’s kind of like the contests where last person touching the car wins the car — having touched the Presidency, HoJo can’t let go, and can’t bring himself to criticize anyone else touching the Presidency.
Losing his Senate seat shatters his dream of becoming President, and shatters his self image as a great statesman and leader.
HoJo is going down, but we will have to fight him tooth and nail all the way to November.
I just watched the video and it makes me wish we had politicians in office who know policy, who want to make it work, instead of these bastards who want to politicize everything. They just care about how it looks not whether it actually works, or put a happy face on a pack of lies. Clinton/Gore actually knew what they were doing but weren’t the best marketers for the “product”. BushCo is the exact opposite, they have the marketing down pat but they don’t give a damn if the policy actually does what they say it will, as long as it lines the pockets of their wealthy individual and corporate backers.
For alot of Senate Democrats, especially those who voted for the war, Lieberman’s loss is scary, a “there but for the grace of God go I” reminder. With this in mind, I think Clinton’s remarks are as much about Hillary as they are about Joe Lieberman. By Lumping Joe in with the real right wing murderers, Bill inches Hillary subtly to the left.
Deborah @ 9:04 am
Exactly. Methinks it would be the deathknell for Lieboy’s campaign.
I had a lot of disagreements with Bill’s policies, but I never felt like he was incapable of leading – never felt like the country was being run by people suffering delusions…
DonnaJ @ 26
The only reason BushCo was able to market their “fear” product is because 9/11 happened. They were circling the drain before that.
I recommend folks call in to local talk radio and help put the lie to the “far left anti-war fringe” meme that is still wrote for most in the media.
Upwards of 60% is not the fringe….it is the SOLID MIDDLE. As The Economist Magazine stated there is a growing “anti-war center” in America. It’s not an anti-terrorist fighting center, it is an anti-Iraq war center.
Also another pointer. Not supporting the Iraq war is not equivalent to not supporting the fight against terrorists.
Troops and treasure would be far better used in places where terrorism exists and is exported. Say, Pakistan.
-GSD
The Clinton quote:
shines some light not ony on Lieberman, but on the whole neocon war position. They wanted war for war’s sake, not for WMD’s , not for taking down Saddam, not for exporting democracy but simply for engaging the American armed forces to show the world that we are No. 1 and to reap all the benefits of being at war, such as enhanced presidential powers, profits for the defense and reconstruction industry etc.
i recieved a request for money from the DSCC yesterday. i wrote back a lovely note telling them that i did not trust them to not give aid and comfort to lieberman and so i would only be giving to ned. since i live in connecticut, it’s the only senate race that really has me juiced, although it would be nice to see other dems win some seats this time
I dislike “triangulating” intensely. No matter who’s doing, whether it’s Hillary or anyone else. Come to think of it, I don’t care much for duplicity either.
that’s a good start, Bill.
GSD – seems like what I’ve seen lately is that the media (even) is starting to tease apart terrorism from Iraq… a giant step forward…
oh goody! *clap hands* Maybe we can make an honest man out of Bubba yet.
BTW There’s a clip on Crooks & Liars of Imus threatening to “expose” Chris Dodd if he doesn’t get back on board. Imus=inarticulate cowboy with a mafia mentality?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 34
all it takes is for one leg of the triangle to fail for it to become a boomerang.
Here’s what I don’t get with the media, the repubs, and the Vichy Dems, and why I know they are out of touch.
They aren’t angry. The american people are angry right now, military families and the rabid left especially are deeply deeply angry at this administration and what is happening to our country. Even conservatives are angry (read George Will today?)
One universal of humanity is that everyone loves to be on a winning team. Americans know we are losing, and yet the talking heads keep talking.
Thanks for the link to Edwards. I sent my thanks to him for his quick-off-the-dime call to congratulate the winner of the Democratic primary in CT, and for going to CT to campaign with Ned.
I wonder when Big Dog will campaign with the primary winner.
Like the others upthread, I can’t wait to see the Big Dog in CT in a month or so, stumping for Ned.
OT: First Syria, now Iran… go figure –
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/…..index.html
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Tuesday that Hezbollah has “hoisted the banner of victory” over Israel and toppled U.S.-led plans for the Middle East.
-snip-
heckuva job, georgie
ugh!
BushCo is the exact opposite, they have the marketing down pat but they don’t give a damn if the policy actually does what they say it will, as long as it lines the pockets of their wealthy individual and corporate backers.
Oil-drilling promoters: promise everything by implication (so you can deny you made promises) and fold the show before the buyers find out they’ve been suckered. You get rich without having to do much more than just run your mouth. And do it again, a hundred miles away or a year or so later.
Sonoma Rus @ 15
One of the things I thought about in 2000 and again in 2004, is that losing the presidency should not have had to come down to the results in one state – blaming Forida and Ohio was like blaming the loss of a football game on the missed extra point or the missed field goal, when there were countless other mistakes made that led to the team losing on the last play of the game.
Let’s not let Lieberman be the equivalent of the missed field goal or extra point.
And, turning that around, there’s no way we should be placing the entire burden of Democratic control of the House and Senate on Ned Lamont’s shoulders.
bimboomerang, a propos of nothing….lol
I think we should have a poetry slam contest for Lieberman’s demise.
Has anyone thought of co-opting the “purple finger meme” for the Lamont victory?
I mean elections are the most important things in the world according to George W. Bush.
The people of Connecticut have spoken.
-GSD
tommy yum @ 41
Bill Clinton needs to stump for Ned Lamont NOW — if we are going to derail the HoJo/Rove express, it needs to be done ASAP.
Have there been any updates on the petition signature count?
mui @ 46
nothing rhymes with Lieberman…
:-)
Dr. Bong — but ’surprise’ rhymes with ‘demise’…
It’s not all about Lieberman, after all.
Q: Has Joe conceded yet?
A: No, but he’s conceited.
GSD – I think the purple finger meme was discussed but since it ended up being such a sham in Iraq (let’s see – Iraqis elected one guy, but Bush didn’t like him, so he was replaced, then the next guy didn’t work out so well, so HE was replaced and now the new guy isn’t all that hot, so…)
I hosted a couple of fund raisers for Mark Pryor in 2002, not knowing what a coward/backstabber he would turn out to be once arriving in DC.
He’s up for reelection in ‘08 and I think it might be time to start looking for Arkansas’ Ned Lamont. Arkansas is not nearly as red of a state as Mark thinks it is.
Anne @ 44
Dr. Bong @ 49
but a lot of words rhyme with Joe, like blow and schmo for example.
twolf1 @ 55
Don’t forget ho…
…the GOP party line he doth tow.
Sheesh I still can’t figure out how to post a comment without messing up the formating . . . In the imortal words of Mr. T ” Pity the poor fool . . .”
weeder- GSD has the info above, but Headline is it (you can see how on top of things I am with CNN to not even differentiate). I give tremendous credit to those who watch that stuff and give up updates because it is hard on the brain to listen to such tripe.
OT – Walsh:
.
That was the problem from the beginning, IMO, with Comey’s decision to in-house the investigation – and I would bet it is how he got Ashcroft to recuse. The structure of the investigation is extremely limited and the rules of the road are that Prosecutors don’t put those kinds of contacts out for public dissemination. Comey picked someone who would do a good job on the narrow scope – and so not catch flack that way – but also someone who would do a good job on following the rules; which meant all kinds of things that an Independent Pros would be able to address, report to COngress about, etc. – all were pretty inevitably going to fall by the wayside.
The fault lies with a) Congress for not forcing the issue of an Indep Pros, and b) Comey for not agreeing that the situation warranted an Indep Pros (even though the first thing that happened when his gig went through was that he had FBI and DOJ investigating, on his doorstep, saying there was a problem) and selecting a process where dirty laundry could stay in-house. JMO. I know lhp, who knows the cast of characters much better, feels very strongly that I am dead wrong on Comey, and I think many others here do too, but that’s still my take.
The day after the CT primary, I faxed Pryor a double barrell Bong special with a few quotes from dems supporting Lamont and inquiring when we might expect a similar statement from his office… Alas, no reply yet. He’s touring the south part of AR this week – out of Bong range, but he’s going to get an earful when he gets back to DC.
:-)
Bill sounded so wishy washy, I couldn’t make head or tail of it. But as long as it’s not an outright endorsement of self-centrist Lieberman, I guess I’ll take what I can get.
Off topic, can someone tell me what a “concern troll” is? I’ve seen it a few times, but can’t seem to pick up the exact meaning from the context. Thanks!
Joe was picked off first base and thinks he hit a triple.
mui:
I like it. It’s been awhile since we had a poetry contest. But I’d prefer song stylings, ie. lyrics a la Neil Young, Sondheim, Lennon/McCartney, Leonard Cohen, etc.
Oh well, maybe too rarefied. But a poetry contest, yes.
And there’s lots that rhymes with “creep”.
BCC — by all means, go hunting right now for that candidate. It takes about two full years to do a really great job on promoting a candidate, with year one being dedicated to getting early money and year two being the race itself.
We’ve learned that here in my backyard the hard way, started in year two and with virtually no money in hand. It will be nip and tuck all the way. Better to find two or more quality candidates, do deep background now, then start the money chase. The money chase may tell you right away whether any one of a couple of candidates has a chance at winning.
Isn’t Cheneyfan close enough?
It would only be right for Bubba to come to the Nutmeg State during the next three months to stump for Lamont. After all, did he inject himself into any other Democrat primaries? – I really doubt it, but would accept correction.
LiarMan may well be a mole for the Republicans and/or Israel, he certainly isn’t a Democrat. The “official” nominated Rethug candidate is just an actor obliged to follow the script, just the bad guy, cast to lose the match. He doesn’t necessarily have to appear to be losing in great theatrical pain and agony, but his being there allows JoMenTum to pretend to be the “Independent Democrat!”
Joe certainly is independent of the Democrats, too bad he can’t find it in himself to be as independent of the Bu$h Crime Family!
When Mehlman, the RNC and Chimpy hisself won’t endorse Schessinger, it’s pretty clear who is the real ReThug candidate.
Tester, Tester, Tester, Tester,Tester
————could I have a bit of treble on Mike 3?
MSN report claims there are plenty of Lieberman Donors
1. Joe Lieberman is now advertising on http://drudgereport.com/…It’s an ad at the top of Drudge’s page that rotates in…
2. The MSN report Republicans raise money for Lieberman is linked from http://drudgereport.com/. The MSN story claims that Joe has far more individual donors than Lamont — they say Lamont had 1100 individual donors compared with Joe’s 5700 individuals.
The MSN story brags that there’s so much pro-Joe (conservative and pro-Israel) money that it will all go to Joe, who will be able to outspend Lamont.
OK how aDr. Bong @ 49
OK how about rhyming with Joe?
The primary of Holy Joe
brought him much sorrow and woe.
Cheney’s minion and corporate hack
looked truly wounded
because noone cut him any slack.
OK bad poetry. But his saga has potential.
Wow, there were 14 comments when I started 66, I’ve got to go back and catch up!
BCC @
53
There was some discussion on an FDL thread yesterday that Wes Clark could be Arkansans’ NED.
Oooh Christy. Excellent post, I must say.
I go further – Joe wants a free ride and dinner when he spent the game being batboy for the OTHER TEAM.
big dog clinton stumped for Lieberman
now’s gotta kick him like a rusty ole can
i’m confused as to who joe is trying to wrangle his votes from. he spent the last weeks of his campaign trumpeting his “progressive” credentials, but every day he gets more and more support from the gop. i know that early polling gave him a slight nod in a three-way race, but i’m curious to see how he is going to define himself for the voters. are dems really going to vote for someone who keeps getting the seal of approval from the worst elements of the republican party (along with their $$$), and why would conservative republicans vote for someone who kept claiming “i AM a democrat” and touting his endorsements from labor and pro-choice groups.
Republicans raise money for Lieberman you’ll find an MSN story, as linked on the drudgereport page.
They say that Joe has more individual donors (5700) vs Lamont (1700). Donors say Lieberman will be well-fundedHmm…?
I disagree that we need Clinton to campaign for Ned right now. Right now, there needs to be private pressure on HoJoe to withdraw.
Clinton needs to stump for Lamont in October, when people who aren’t political junkies start thinking about the election.
punaise -
sounds about right!
shoephone @ 63
We never really had an online celebration like we did with Dead eye dick, huh?
Mary @ 71
I’ll eave to others to suggest which “a” gets swapped for a “u”
e.c. 73 – Joe’s a mess – I don’t think he knows WHAT he’s doing… just spinning around in circles, hoping something sticks to something…
Jane at 70 — the Mark Pryor thing really pissed me off. And it’s about time Chuck Schumer got off his ass and did something.
Dr. Bong @ 60
Dude, can you fax that to me, too?
mui @ 77 -
no, we didn’t. And I think we shine with celebrations in the creative mode.
Off to work now – finally!
Whatever one thinks of Clinton, I think his calm diagnosis of the situation is good. My demur to TRex’s snark last night was, after I slept on it, that it was too excited too outraged.
All the GOP has right now are very old, retreads, cheap retreads, the kind that can blow up on them as the tool down their well worn road. The magazine cover was just a tired retread of the limousine liberal. Look at Lamont in that picture -he looks ver beffudled and meek -trying to Dukakasize the dude. That is not Lamont, or Tester, or Webb, or Madrid, or any of the fighting Democrats whether progressives or not. Then throw up a few scare figures that don’t have much of anything to do with Lamont at all. What does Hillary Clinton have to do with Lamont? Since when are they are big team. Sharpton, who I don’t like all that much, well, looky their, he is the drivers seat, ain’t he there, gonna take poor old meek clueless befuddled, and probably insulated and unconsciously arrogant Lamont for a little drive. You get a twofer there: a little race baiting and subliminal hint that Lamont is a tool of knowon bogeypersons.
This is very old, very tired stuff. Better to call it for what it is than get too excited. I think Clinton has the right approach.
bad attempt at haiku
A kiss from George, sweet
I just lost the primary
Won’t accept defeat
—–
What’s there on that float?
Lamont equals al qaeda
I’m an idiot
I didn’t know that Pam from Atlas Shrugs had made it to the front line in Israel.
Thank God for Dow Chemicals.
Now we know that silicone is an important tool in the war on terror.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/…..mv5oi.html
-GSD
I am encouraged by this article. Yet, for me, it’s still not enough. Campaigning is fine; jim dandy. But I expect my leaders to publicly call for the traitor to step down and halt his run. So far, it appears that only Feingold, Richardson, and Clark issue the call. These men are now my leaders.
I do not call upon Mr. Lamont to denounce HoJo. Lieberman is not a traitor unto Mr. Lamont; HoJo is a traitor unto the Democrat Party. I expect my party leaders to show leadership, to figuratively track down this renegade and show him the rope. A tale from history:
We all have these revered, warm & fuzzy thoughts about George Washington, the Father of our Country. We know of his great leadership…the hardships he and his men suffered in those winters. We adore this fair, temporate, even-handed man. But lost in legend, but well documented, are the following:
A. Benedict Arnold: Goerge, its widely reported, threw a FIT when he learned of Arnold’s treason. He ordered his troops to track down the traitor. They never could; and Arnold eventually fled to England where he died a non-descript death years later. But Washington’s men DID catch the Redcoat officer who facilitated Arnold’s treason. The result? By order of George Washington, this man was swiftly found guilty, and hung by his neck till dead. A tree in the forest was his gallows.
B. Desertion: at one point, a mass desertion happened amongst the Continental Army. Washington worried that his army might fall apart. He sent out troops loyal to him. They captured all the deserters and brought them in. The orders of our “warm & fuzzy” leader? Gen. George Washington identified the leaders of the desertion and…ordered their execution by firing squad. They were so executed.
George Washington knew what it takes to WIN. And win he did. He knew that in order to win, one must sometimes make hard decisions. Do my Democrat Party leaders know how to win?
Ghostman
Quiet pressure is good for now I think.
Public pressure makes it about Joe.
-GSD
While everyone inside the Beltway bemoans “partisanship,” voters reward discipline and leadership. Leaders must lead in this circumstance, by disciplining those who stray from the accepted party line. If the DSCC supports Lamont fully, all Democratic Senators must do so. This is neither the time nor the issue when “diversity of opinion” is in any way acceptable.
Senate Dems must be made to understand the moral of both the Lamont and the Lieberman candidacies: EITHER can happen to any one of them in the next six years. By which I mean that any Senate Dem can be primary-challenged, from either side of any issue (but probably W’s war) and then the LOSER of that Democratic primary can proceed to the general.
Every single Senate Dem who’s thought through that scenario then says to self: “Well, that couldn’t happen in MY state!” But don’t they understand that’s exactly what RGJoe thought?
Leadership and discipline, accountability and consequences. That’s what Americans want today. Harry Reid, your time to make this work is running out!
Ghostman,
It’s called the Democratic Party. “Democrat” party is a winger callsign, used by, among other people, Joe McCarthy.
Thought you’d like to know. Not casting any aspersions.
Not Impressed with the DSCC. Not impressed at all.
The Democratic Party should cut the tethers on this one pronto.
http://www.daytondailynews.com…..erweb.html
-GSD
OfT;
I don’t know how the major newmagazines make decisions about cover stories. I have no inside information. But I believe that NED (or RGJoe) would have been on the cover of at least one of Time, Newsweek, or YouSnooze&WorldReport absent the push from the US to prematurely roll-up TERROR IN THE SKIES: TARGET USA!
just sent an email to the dscc – it was much more sputtering than articulate – but hopefully it will end up in the “Mark Pryor is an idiot” pile…
TeddySanFran @ 69
Wes Clark is an Arkansan, isn’t he. I guess he would need senority to be chairman, but he would certainly by a great member of say… the committee overseeing Military Appropriations – all generals can’t go straight to the White House like Ike.
GSD @ 87
Is the quiet pressure happening, though? Will it happen without our public pressure?
Also,
Caveat. I know and we all know that this is the right thing to do for their employees who are in a very dangerous spot.
However, Fox News is “negotiating” for the release of their two abducted reporters.
http://english.aljazeera.net/N…..9A767E.htm
Another brave Bush/Coulter Republican meme down the toilet.
-GSD
-ck- @ 25
Exactly. He never understood that VP Nominee is an appointed position, and one that you get by being thought strategically useful, not by having mass support. He’s been bitter ever since those nasty primary voters in ‘04 didn’t ooh and aah at his having won the self-esteem trophy.
I just got off the phone with “Stuart” of the DSCC.
Me: My name is (), a Democrat from New York. Is Mark Pryor still Southern Vice Chair of DSCC?
Stuart: Yes.
Me: Is the DSCC’s mission to elect Democrats to the Senate?
Stuart: Yes.
Me: Then why is Mark Pryor, a leader in your organization, supporting a CFL instead of the Democrat in the CT senate race?
Stuart: That’s his individual position, the DSCC and Senator Schumer individually support the Democrat.
Me: Why is Pryor still in a leadership position of an organization tasked with electing Democrats, if he individually does not support Democrats?
Stuart: You’ll have to ask him, here’s his number – 202-224-2353.
Me: I’m not Pryor’s constituent. My main problem is with the DSCC tolerating people in leadership positions who subvert the sole mission of electing Democrats. I AM Senator Schumer’s constituent, and I want to know why he isn’t kicking Pryor the hell out of that Vice Chair.
Stuart: I’ll pass that on.
Me: TYVM.
Mary @ 71
WhineyAssTittyBabyBATBoy
Clinton needs to start campaigning for Ned sooner rather than later. Joe needs to have his numbers dumped NOW rather than give the illusion of a surge.
It would be harder and worse to deflate a full sail later rather than prevent its filling with air in the first place. A sign of “joementum” is all the press and people generally need to help even a convalescent candidate towards a win. That “joementum” can come from either a large surge of GOP support plus some DINO voter support OR a failure to thrive by Ned. Ned has an array of cannons aimed at him: virtually the entire press corpse. The corpse doesn’t like Ned, much like they didn’t like Gore, so they will do anything they can to prevent him from winning, truth be damned. Clinton and others can help muffle and render ineffective the press corpse’s and pundit’s anti-Ned cannons.
Clinton sooner rather than later, to totally wipe out any aid his previous stand WITH Lieberman gave him. NO JOEMENTUM! Not even a little, anemic amount is acceptable. Kill off his dream of winning ASAP.
Bill Clinton has taken a step in the right direction. He needs to follow up by going and campaigning enthusiasticly for Ned in Connecticut.
theExile @ 94
Because electability is an issue for Clark, in that he’s never been elected to anything, I think the Pryor Senate challenge would be an excellent step. He’s far superior to Pryor.
I’m not convinced I ever want a former General in the White House, but I’m pretty sure I don’t want one who hasn’t demonstrated political chops, by which I mean getting elected to something.
Redshift @ 97
The “tell” on this is when stinkyman sez (wrongly) “I ran against George Bush twice, and beat him once!”
P.A. 100 – I think Joe’s spinning around too fast to be much effective and Bill’s got excellent political instincts… actually, I’d trust his timing – I think he will know when the time is right to jump in with his support (and I do think he will jump in)
Teddy,
Bill Clinton just delivered a very calm and queit repudiation of GOP Joe’s Indy run.
Yes, we need to pressure the party and we need to let them know that they are getting the message.
As things heat-up and Joe hasn’t left….then we can start screaming loudly.
Now is the time to put the brave and stoic face on. They want to see and unhinged Democratic base.
Also, Bush’s numbers are going to start tanking again. I don’t think this latest terrorist attack scare will boost him and the Neo-Cons are livid at what they see is the abject failure of the Israeli/Lebanon war. They wanted Syria bombed and Iran bombed an they got none of that. Now they are attacking Bush. Weak, deluded George W. Bush.
-GSD
GSD @ 85
If we aren’t allowed to fly anymore carrying “liquids and gels”, does that mean she can’t pass airport security? ;-)
Maybe BigDog should run against Pryor in the primary.
oxide @ 61
A concern troll is someone who claims to support the same things we do, but is “concerned” that the use of profanity will undermine our cause or “concerned” that Lamont’s run will split the Democratic Party, or… you get the idea.
It’s more subtle than a garden-variety troll, but serves the same purpose — to try to get us arguing with it and talking minutiae, rather than real substance.
89, tommy yum: I’ve actually seen it both ways here at fdl! I’ve just given up on the “proper” term. Some think one version identifies one as a wingnut, etc. I’ve concluded it’s malarkey. The content of ideas marks a man, not how he spells something. But I’ll try to use the “IC” whenever I write. Thanks.
Ghostman
TAS screener:
Ms. Ochry,
Please place the jugs in the basket.
-GSD
if I may ask;
after the flap between Ned and Joe about their halliburton stock;
has Ned Lamont got rid of his or is this okay with everyone?
I am concerned that anyone of conscience could own stock in some corpses, and then say they are progressive. The facts collide.
sorry, but one doesn’t have convictions until they live them. we all compromise some, but this one is fairly sensitive. just my humble opinion
thanks
TeddySanFran
I’d rather have a general(in the White House) than a chickenhawk anyday!
per GSD:
VeryOldMother said yesterday, “That George Bush is a very small man.”
succinct!
—
Let’s get on this! Really. I wrote to Pryor and informed him that I will be supporting whomever challenges him in a primary bid in 2008 as a result of his support for Lieberman (and other transgressions against the peace). I would love to support Clark.
Seriously, let’s get on this.
To be fair, Eisenhower was a general and he was THE man who warned against the coming Military-Industrial complex we now suffer under. I actually prefer people with military experience to be CinC because they KNOW war (Unless they are Air Force, of which I am a member, in which case they inevitably think bombing targets will win the day. EVERY TIME WITHOUT FAIL this is an Air Force general position. Been that way since WWII. Do NOT trust an Air Force general as President but you can generally trust Army, possibly Marine generals).
theExile @ 112
well, yeah!
NRSC says:
Kennedy Stands Behind Lieberman!
Of course, it’s not TED Kennedy, but it sure is a clever headline.
And another Red endorsement of Joe, of course.
One last creative spurge:
Dear holy joe
we endorse you
our names are imus, hannity,
chimpy and dick
so give us your cheek
our kisses our wet and slick
for you we’ll throw old Shless
to the curb with a kick.
Eric Alterman gets gets letters — he also handicaps 2008, and offers a great analysis of the Lamont win.
Bush and Lieberman call these ‘Murkans their base.
-ck- @ 118
That adds up to his constant JAR.
oldtree @ 111
Yes. Lamont got rid of his a while ago and the stock was in some kind of fund a stockbroker picked out for him. So the charges are dead beat.
Lieberman on the other hand . . .
Excellent points Praedor Atrebates, I agree about getting on it – JFK, though not a general, was in the war and he did an apprenticeship in the Senate. Since JFK Senators haven’t been very successful seeking the presidency.
I don’t know about you, but I’m really getting tired of watching ex-Governors with room temperature IQs further degraded by Alzheimer’s or senile-dementia pretending to be President. At least Bubba had a brain and it still worked, as it so obviously still does.
He’s been in my country the last couple of days sharing the stage with Mr. and Mrs. Gates at the 25th Aids Conference in Toronto. There are 25,000 delegates there as well as the Gates, Clinton, The leaders of all three opposition parties, the Premier of Ontario and the Mayor of Toronto. The only person missing is the guy after Blair’s position as the Chimp’s favorite poodle – Little Stevie “WhiteWonderBread” Harper.
Clinton is a ROCK STAR in Canada!
Mary @ 7
Watching CNN now, do we know yet if he will appear here? HNN?
LindyH @
18
Their statistics are off. The worst case scenario is that the same key opens all 500 trailers. The expected scenario if the trailers all use keys from that locksmith is that each key will open, on average, 10 trailers. Some less, some more.
Repercussions of what The Great Decider termed a victory for Israel.
(Snip)
In Iran:
“TEHRAN, Aug. 15 (Xinhua) — An Iranian top cleric warned on Tuesday that his country would retaliate on Tel Aviv with ballistic missiles if Iran is attacked by the United States and Israel, the state television reported.”
http://news.xinhuanet.com/engl…..964593.htm
In Syria:
Bashar Assad on Hizbollah’s fight against Israel:
“This resistance is a medal to pin on the chest of every Arab citizen, not only Syria,” he said, adding that the Shia fighters had “shattered the myth of an invincible army”.
http://english.aljazeera.net/N…..4F7215.htm
The Neo-con policies should be treated like kryptonite by the Israeli’s and the US. Once enacted they cause the opposite reaction.
Iran and Syria sure don’t sound cowed and beaten to me.
-GSD
RagingGurrl @ 122
I’ve got Headline News on, nothing yet
theExile @ 121
One thing I hope our next President will do right away is change this absurd immigration regulation so that people with AIDS can come to America, and therefore we can have these conferences in America again. It’s really shameful, given what we know about AIDS on its 25th anniversary, that we still have exclusionary regulations that mean that these important and ground-breaking conclaves cannot be held in the USA.
beth meacham 75:
I half-heartedly agree with this. We lost a lot of momentum when the Dems did not immediately and naturally extend congratulations and support for the winner of the CT primary. The way it should have been. Overall Ned got a limp wristed, wishy-washy, sorta clammy handshake when he deserved a big ole bear hug from his party for a fight well run and WON – and nothing but scorn for Lieberman should have accompanied the hearty congratulations ON ELECTION NIGHT.
So now the opportune moment has passed and I don’t know when the most effective time to strike would be. I’d like it to be now but if it isn’t coordinated, if it is diluted, trickles in, it will not send the strong message of support that is required.
I agree with everyone here who has said that Ned should not have the burden of the entire democratic party and the world on his shoulders, and I’ve said before that Ned has spent his money, time, blood sweat and tears on this race and continues to do so.
Now is the time, dems, to come to the aid of your party. If you really believe in your party, that is.
Primordial Ooze *123 understands probability
The Lamont campaign website says the interview is scheduled for 1:30. It doesn’t say which CNN, but Roberts in an anchor for HNN, so that’s what I’m watching.
I would bet that Pryor and Salazar know exactly what they are doing. They are saying that if they are successfully challenged in a primary, they will run as independents. That is, if Salazar doesn’t just pull a Nighthorse and switch.
I like Clinton’s calm approach. I think calm approaches needed right now. But direct and forceful calm approaches. I agree with commenters that there is no excuse at all for current elected Democrats to not be backing Lamont 100%. Democratic Senate and House election committees need to decide whether they are Democrats or in some kind of incumbent protection racket. Schumer and Emanuel need to hear some feedback on what they have said (and not said) and what they are putting up with. If they can’t get rid of loser officials who do not support perfectly mainstream and very excellent Democratic candidates like Lamont, then they can very forcefully say that this clown is speaking for himself and it is too bad for him.
Thing about Lieberman, to support him you have to support his stay the non-course nonsense. You have to explain how this very principled man flipped and flopped within three weeks on Iraq, as coincidentally suited his interests. And how is that better than Lamont?
To Senator Pryor:
You are a Democrat! You are backing the same candidate for Senate as the Republicans are. The same candidate backed by the Bush-Cheney-Rummy cabel of sickies
What’s wrong with this equation?
At last week’s Drinking Liberally in Denver, the buzz was that Salazar was doing some heavy duty squirming on his commitment to HoJo — but switching parties has always been a worry with Senator Ken, and even though he pledged to remain a Democrat, we still have our doubts.
If he switched, it would be a disaster for the CO Democrats — so don’t beat up on him too hard.
As much of a fan of naval gazing as I am hehe…I think it’s time to stop asking why Soandso is not supporting the Dem party, and time to inform that person that we are sponsoring a Progressive challenger to them in their next election. We then find and sponsor said Progressive. We only have to do that a few times before it wakes everyone else up.
They clearly are viewing the Neocon Joe race as a fluke, rather than as the new normal. We have to disavow them of their misperceptions.
So don’t email Schumer whining about the behavior of his DSCC. These people are reality-impervious. Email Schumer instead about the Primary challenge he is going to be facing in a few years.
It really is that simple.
To add another sports analogy to JoMenTum, he started it. Since I’m in Canada, we’ll play hockey.
Announcer: Oooh, too bad, JoMenTum had his head down at the blueline and was accidentally high sticked in the mouth.
Oh Wait Joe’s going after Lamont, using his stick like an axe. How are they going to sort this out Harry?
Harry Neale: Well Ned will have to take a ten minute major because it drew blood. But Joe will get a ten minute major and kicked out of the game for retaliation and a further 10 game suspension for the unwarranted attack on Ned.
Later: The report from the dressing room is that the doc had to sew Joe’s mouth shut and the stitches will have to stay in until December.
OT – Gonzalez plays politics with the UK terror plot, gets the Fitz question:
Ned on Headline News next, after break.
Ned coming up on CNN Headline news in a minute.
Headline News! Coming up after the break!
Kurt 133:
This approach resonates with me – it’s an empowering direction to take and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head! Oh, since we’re doing sports analogies today I guess I’d say you hit the ball out of the park. (that’s the only sports phrase I can think of at the moment.) :)
There once was a Dem from Cee Tee
Who played nice with the GOP
He lost his big race
Became a public disgrace.
That’s what he gets for kissing a chimpanzee.
Kurt @ 133
That is very interesting. It starts this year, I believe, with a good showing by Hilary’s progressive primary opponent, Jonathan Tasini. (Vote on 9/12/06, New Yorkers. Send a message!) Chuckie’s next campaign will be in 2010.
theExile:
oh, if that only could be true!
:~D
new thread
ooo, Chuck apologizes… admits to being STOOPID!
Ned needs to shave…
OldCoastie @ 145
must look real furry in HD
Ghostman #86 – Howard Dean has also called for Lieberman to quit his run.
PS – I have a rhyme for Liberman: “PeterPan”, as in the guy who didn’t want to grow up.
Would’ve liked to hear a longer interview of Ned, but the apology was worth it.
Ned is a breath of fresh air – like this comment from him, which went something like this:
if the country listened to the people of CT, we’d all be better off.
OK, no need to watch CNNHN anymore
I had almost the exact same conversation with Stuart that op99 did a half hour ago. Hahaha…mmmmm
agree that it’s important to vote for hillary’s progressive opponent in ny
hillary & schumer never listen to their constituents — they’re both top-down thinkers who admire how fidel runs cuba
as a small business owner, i’d be nuts to vote for hillary or schumer even if they ran for dogcatcher
Gosh. Who controls the talking points?
You got to wonder why is nobody saying -
OK, that was a reasonable apology from Chuck Roberts, and Ned was very good given his short alloted time. Some “radical,” concerned with schools, jobs, and healthcare. Sorry, HoJo, you’re just not going to be able to demonize Ned. Oh, and I liked him commending Scotland Yard for their law enforcement efforts. A subtle dig at Bushco for trying to take credit for it and for thinking law enforcement is pre-9/11 thinking.
twolf1 @ 149
Yup, don’t want my brain turning to mush. Back to tying bows on wedding favors for me!
Ah hah
Sharpton said Lieberman called him over the weekend to ask for his endorsement, but Sharpton told him he disagrees with him on too many issues.
Joe sour grapes Lieberman
http://www.boston.com/news/loc…..an/?page=2
mui @ 155
Joe should know Al is driving Ned’s car, he must subscribe to the Weakly Strandard. Or maybe he thought the one we thought was Hillary was him and Ned was actually getting out of the car (at Joe’s request, of course).
I’ve written to WesPac asking that Clark consider a run against Mark Pryor. I don’t know of another means of getting such a plea to Clark.
Everyone, let’s truly draft Clark to run against Pryor in ‘08.
Demeaning Democracy
Cheney Paints Lamont Victory As Helping Terrorists by Ted Kennedy. Don’t know if anyone saw this, but good on ol Teddy.
http://www.courant.com/news/op…..6112.story
Exile @157
Joe should know Al is driving Ned’s car, he must subscribe to the Weakly Strandard.
Joey asked Al to come and hold his hand before the primary. Now that he’s been spurned, he’s turned vicious. I wonder if HoJo now paces back and forth spewing invective like Dick Nixon did.
I was referring to the Weekly Standard (Lamont Democrats) cover that was such a bone of discussion on FDL Late Nite last night. It was really poor artwork, but whoever created it was trying to create implied images demonizing and launching racist concepts.
There was a lot of discussion regarding the identity of the woman(?) top left. Was it Eleanor Roosevelt, Hillary or even JoMenTum hisself. Check it out, it’s creepy!
Exile@160
Yeah I know Exile. The right wingers –Weak Standards included– have gone too far. They’re so close to losing it, they don’t know how to hold back with the creepy racism in an attempt to “satirize” the Lamont campaign. And its not just coming from Weak Standards, it’s coming from Ann Coulter, and a number of columnists.
Jenny from the Blog @ 128
I like that. Given the way things have panned out since election day, The voters should make noise now, and allow a well-hinged Ned steady, measured exposure in the media. Everyone needs to get comfortable with him and the idea that, whatever the election portends, at the end of the day Lamont wants to be a good Senator and handle the people’s business.
I would bet that Swan, etc feel that Joe is the story til Labor day, so might as well give him enough rope. I’m hoping that September brings a big rush of visits, speeches, etc. From what I’ve read about Swan, he’s not shy. And l like what his spokesperson is putting out too. They allow Lamont to be himself, a genuinely interested problem solver, not a hothead.
I called the DSCC and spoke with a very polite staffer.
Me: “I was just reading on FDL that Pryor is supporting Lieberman…is this true!?”
Staffer: “Yes ma’am. Although the DSCC and Chuck Shumer do support Lamont, Pryor does not”
Me: “What is Shumer doing about this? Will there be a statement from Shumer addressing this disconnect within the DSCC?”
Staffer: “I’m not in a position to comment on that right now”(I got the impression the staffer wasn’t happy with this, but have no proof whatsoever)
Me: “I understand your position, however here’s the deal. I actually donate to the DSCC. Unless the full leadership of the DSCC supports Lamont and not Lieberman, you can forget about any more donations”
Staffer: “I will pass your comments along”
Me: “thank you, I would appreciate that”
**Not actual quotes, just my best recollection.
It’s almost sad to watch the wing nuts flail about while they circle the drain.
Not . . .
Pryor and Lieberman have become dupes of none other than the dangerously notorious:
OSAMA bin BUSH aka The Monstrous Morph Brothers
Click on the link to see the evil evidence!
Blog On
-sorry forgot to link (They are trying to bring me under their evil spell. . .)
OSAMA bin BUSH
twolf1 @ 73
You don’t understand. Clinton just DID kick him to the curb, southern style.
weeder @ 14
The Colbert Report.
If some folk really want to make it personal with Mark Pryor, it is useful to know that when he was elected to the Senate in 2002 he was given Paul Wellstone’s Senate Desk.
I think he ought to get lots of mail telling him that he insults the memory of Paul Wellstone, and for the remainder of the term, he should bring a blanket, and sit on the floor in shame.
Wow, a president that can talk in complete sentences?
Clinton said something interesting at the end which could be used as a general Democratic strategy; that Iraq should not be the central focus since Democrats opposed it as long as there were no WMDs and since Democrats had nothing to do with its subsequent failures. An overall strategy could be to focus on values including the Democrat’s Six-Point Plan. This would circumvent being called the anti-war Party or merely what the Republican Party is not.
The Six-Point Plan
http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/808…..agenda.pdf
I noticed the Six-Point plan encompasses what The Nation proposed as four progressive values, Freedom, Opportunity, Security and Responsibility (FOSR). Freedom is civil liberties and transparency in government, Opportunity is jobs, minimum wage raise and a level playing field, Security is energy independence, job security, health care, education, social security, Responsibility is the accountability of our elected leaders.
The Four Progressive Values:
http://www.thenation.com/docpr…..amp;s=horn
another one of see i told you so from rush limbaugh is proven wrong. rush’s prediction was that as soon as lamont wins the primary, lieberman will be out of the race completely cause of pressure from dems like bill clinton.
looks like the maharushi gets it wrong again. what great political acumen!!!
It’s time for Bill Clinton and other Democrats to get their butt to Connecticut and campaign for the Democratic candidate Ned Lamont
We really need Congressman Murtha to counter the SwiftBoaters.