Oh Sh*t What Am i supposed to say when I’m first????

Jane & FDL!

Fitz Ned Everybody!

CHAOS is what Rove loves… it’s evident in their every endeavor… they know how to take advantage when there is chaos – see it as an opportunity for profit…
they are just lovin’ that Joe is staying in the race… I also think that they are feeding Liarman’s delusions, dangling tasty morsels in front of him if he stays… and allowing him to act as their hatchet man.

PWAPVT–LOL I’ve been there too!!

J’oh!

Turd Blossom shows us how big his really is.

I’ve been bangin’ on Harry Reid’s electronic doors continuously since Lamont won:

Repudiate LIEberman’s indie run, sing the praises of Lamont & remove Holy Joe from his committee & caucus assignments.

I mean, it’s now Sen. Joe Lieberman (CT for Lieberman, CT) now, ain’t it? No “D” in there from my perspective.

Thanks for all the informative posts from CT, Jane.

Unfortunately, today’s “terror news” will serve to send any potental Democratic “leadership” scurrying for cover, like the groundhog fearing its shadow, at least for the time being. It will be interesting to see to what degree the momentum to get behind Lamont is affected.

Funny on the timing, n’est ce pas?

Mike Allen was on the late night Hardball special the night of the election spewing all that pro GOP garbage. He was absolutely giddy about it. Pure stenography.

Well, Joe’s real constituency — Broder, Cheney, Rove — has backed him, clutching their pearls as they go.

I want to see Joe’s Senate office cleared out and boxed up by the weekend. Stick him in a broom closet somewhere.

Just one more reason, Joe’s gotta go.

Spineless Dems who won’t confront him with the necessity of respecting the democratic process are not leaders worthy of the name.

Nice of Joe to use GOP talking points…

But now the question is how do we get out? And I think if we just cut and ran as my opponent wants to do by a deadline it would be a disaster for the Iraqis and for us.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA…..kl.01.html

Don’t be mistaken, Jane. Didn’t I read somewhere that Rove wants the Republican in the race up until the very end when he would drop out and endorse Lieberman?

Rove has a plan hatched up with Lieberman in the mix.

That’s why its important for Democrats everywhere to push Joe to drop his independent bid.

helina handbasket @ 6

Unfortunately, today’s “terror news” will serve to send any potental Democratic “leadership” scurrying for cover, like the groundhog fearing its shadow, at least for the time being. It will be interesting to see to what degree the momentum to get behind Lamont is affected.

Funny on the timing, n’est ce pas?

Hey, is this the same Helina Handbasket from Yahoo Chat that knows me and mindthug?

This fat little piece of fuck bestrides this nation and presides over its total ruin. Merely because he has mastered the reptile brain.

If there is anything I can do with my life, let it be to destroy this nazi pig and dismantle all he stands for.

What amazes me about this race is how very racist it is; the right’s bigotry has slipped from simmering to low boil.

Coulter’s comments about Maxine Waters being the most obvious and flagrant examples, but all the other soft stuff like the “Bill Clinton Democrat or Al Sharpton Democrat” is out in the open.

So much for the big tent. Or did they simply throw in the towel knowing they have grossly failed persons of color in this country and are struggling to keep all the white folks in line?

Well ya know, the President sees the ME as an opportunity. That’s what these guys are all about, opportunity. Chaos, death, destruction, mayhem, all are good opportunities for neo-cons. Just look at the opportunities provided by Iraq, New Orleans and now Lebanon. Every day there’s a new opportunity for the opportunistic.

With friends like Karl
Rove called Lieberman on voting day
…

I have to assume that there are some Democrats trying to talk to Joe through back channels, but I also assume he’s refusing to listen to them.

The DSCC now lists Lamont as the Democratic nominee, but it also still lists Joe Lieberman as a Democrat. Joe insists on being an “independent”; let him be one. Take away his committee assignments and take away the D by his name.

Everything Joe says in public from now on, until he drops out of the race, needs to be met by Schumer, Reid, et al. with, “Joe Lieberman is no longer a Democrat. He is a supporter of President Bush and his failed policies.”

So much for the big tent. Or did they simply throw in the towel knowing they have grossly failed persons of color in this country and are struggling to keep all the white folks in line?

No, I’m afraid they want to provoke a Jews-vs-African-Americans fight among Democrats (and ‘Democrats’).

Jane – I tried deparately to post something just along these lines this morning. Where the heck are the dems? If there is even one more dem willing to go with Joe, then Lamont will have no running room whatsoever.

Please, with your sources now in CT, please tell them if they are listening to D.C. dem consultants about what to do next, QUIT IT. They are not helping Lamont one tiny bit.

I suspect that is exactly what is happening. Everyone lining up with Lamont means lots of advice is flowing from DCCC and elsewhere, attached to money. Please do not listen to it. Get something out there quick.

Nope. Maybe I should sign off as helina handbasket redeux.

Reposting from earlier thread . . .

David Broder in today’s WaPo:

Rep. Chris Shays, the Connecticut Republican whose seat is a target for the Democrats this year, told me the morning after the primary that he is supporting Lieberman and thinks he can win a three-way race against Lamont and the weak Republican challenger, Alan Schlesinger. Other prominent Republicans are also poised to back Lieberman and raise money for him.

So that’s where Joe is looking for his financing . . . Ready to check those FEC campaign reports, everyone?

When does Joe’s term of office expire? After the November election?

I guess Ned Lamont is supposed to take on the whole world by himself.

Jane, WTF?

“I understand they are in a tough position at the moment that I do not envy,”

What tough position? All they have to do is declare that the vote is legal, binding, and over. They have a candidate for November, period. That’s not hard to say. If they just keep saying that, the rest is just blather.

“The voters of Connecticut made their decision and there is no question about the legitimacy of the results. We in the Democratic Party fully support and respect the choice made by the voters. Joe’s nice and all, but he did not win the primary and he is not our candidate. Next question?”

I’m inclined to think that the Democratic “leadership” is giving Joe an opportunity to make this decision himself, but with the GOP strategy quite clear now, I’m guessing the personal visits are imminent. Harry Reid HAS to call Joe on his alleged devotion to the party, and use it to convince Joe to do the right thing and get out now. If Joe thinks he will win the support of voters for being so full of himself he is willing to sabotage the party, he really has been blinded by his own ego.

BTW, Jane – great conversation with Rachel Maddow this morning!

I actually believe the dems in D.C. would be thrilled if Lamont lost. I actually do believe that. Clinton, Schumer — all of them. They want to kill the netroots now before they lose any more power. And who is to stop them. My feelings are grim. Very grim.

Wesley Clark, from whom we might take some cues at this point, commenting on this topic,

“You see, despite what Joe Lieberman believes, invading Iraq and diverting our attention away from Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden is not being strong on national security. Blind allegiance to George W. Bush and his failed “stay the course” strategy is not being strong on national security. And no, Senator Lieberman, no matter how you demonize your opponents, there is no “antisecurity wing” of the Democratic Party.”

We have a duty to stop these ignorant, selfish, incompetent fools from sacrificing our children and grandchildren to the mindless creation of new legions of terrorists.

Looks like the DSCC is cooperating with Republican aims here. According to Ryan Lizza at The New Republic, they are not planning on contributing to Lamont in the general election. I don’t know how much effect that will have on other big donors, but it’s looking like Chuck Schumer is willing to let Lamont swing:

Some Democratic Senators will endorse Lamont this morning, but don’t expect much more than a press release. The Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee has no intention of throwing any real money at Lamont. “This race will have zero bearing on who controls the Senate after Election Day in November,” says a top Democrat involved in Senate campaign strategy. “Why would we spend money defending a seat that will be blue either way? It just takes funds from important seats like Montana. It’s counterproductive to the cause.” The message to Lamont? If you want the seat so bad, spend your own money: “The fact of the matter is that Lamont has seven million dollars he can draw on.”

[emphasis mine]
This looks to me like that old “ten state” strategy that’s worked so well in the last two elections. It also, of course, is making the false assumption that Lieberman would once again be loyal to the Democratic Party if he’s elected. In short, if this is true Chuck Schumer is a certifiable drooling idiot.

I commented about this yesterday, and linking to the story got me moderated each time. So here’s the link to one of my comments that’s out of moderation:

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-235820

Let’s see how that goes.

more Greenwald at Salon.com War Room:

Politicizing the terrorist plot

Roughly 12 hours have elapsed since it was disclosed that the British police thwarted an attempt to blow up transcontinental airplanes. Few facts are known about how the plot was uncovered and exactly who was behind it. Nonetheless, supporters of President Bush have wasted no time attempting to exploit this event to make what they evidently perceive are powerful political points in defense of the president and his most controversial policies.
…
Over the next several days, at least, we will repeatedly hear Bush and his supporters attempting — implicitly and overtly — to transform this terrorist plot to into political support for Bush policies. That is a game they have been playing for several years now, and it is what accounts, more than anything else, for their victory in two consecutive national elections. But it is an intellectually dishonest and corrupt ploy, and the collapse of Bush’s popularity strongly suggests that Americans have become increasingly immune to being told that they should support the president’s extremist policies and overlook his profound failures, all because there are terrorists in the world who want to commit violent acts.

So Hillary sends a check for 5 grand, a few press releases are issued lending support for Lamont. Is this it? Like Jane said, where’s the fierce blowback to the 24/7 smear of Lamont happening right now?

*crickets*

helina handbasket @ 20

Nope. Maybe I should sign off as helina handbasket redeux.

Nah, dont sweat it, just had not heard from someone on Yahoo Chat I knew a while ago, got excited that maybe it was you. Oh well, no biggie, nice to meet ya.

Has Bill Clinton spoken yet? He is in a unique position to create some party discipline by not only endorsing Lamont and pledging to campaign and raise money for him, but making clear that Lieberman has left the Democratic Party, is hurting it by cut-and-running, is aiding the Republicans, and deserves no support from Democrats. And calling for an end to the “Clinton Democrat or Sharpton Democrat” nonsense.

Well, Mr. President?

boadicea @ 10

Just one more reason, Joe’s gotta go.

Spineless Dems who won’t confront him with the necessity of respecting the democratic process are not leaders worthy of the name.

Like Ken Salazar, for example. I haven’t been this ashamed of my vote in ages. Don’t get me started.

I guess Rove getting in touch means that Joe will do the honorable thing and just become a Republican?

I knew Salazar was moderate, but I didn’t think he was stupid.

Oy!

Peterr @ 22

Reposting from earlier thread . . .

David Broder in today’s WaPo:

Rep. Chris Shays, the Connecticut Republican whose seat is a target for the Democrats this year, told me the morning after the primary that he is supporting Lieberman and thinks he can win a three-way race against Lamont and the weak Republican challenger, Alan Schlesinger. Other prominent Republicans are also poised to back Lieberman and raise money for him.

So that’s where Joe is looking for his financing . . . Ready to check those FEC campaign reports, everyone?

Oh yeah. “Joe can call himself an independent if he likes, but the truth is he’s made himself dependent on the GOP. He’s chosen to align himself with President Bush and his failed policies.”

Yes, I sound like a broken record, and so should they. C’mon, Chuck, Harry, Rahm … you can do it.

There is, at least I think it is, a good read today titled “How to Talk to Your Jewish Friends About Israel” by Ira Chernus. It’s short in length and only takes a very few minutes to read. I found it helpful.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0810-22.htm

LONDON (AP) – British authorities said Thursday they thwarted a terrorist plot to simultaneously blow up several aircraft heading to the U.S. using explosives smuggled in carry-on luggage.

[snip]

White House spokesman Tony Snow said Bush also had been briefed by his aides while at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, where he has been on vacation.”

http://apnews.myway.com/articl…..LUSO1.html

Why does it seem that the world goes to shit when shrub is on vacation?

DEM leadership was for Joe and their own status quo invisibility.

Why would they stand up and reveal themselves, if they could? They’re too busy licking their wounds and cowering over what Time said. Stockholm syndrome losers.

Only Feingold has challenged the cowardice of the DLC. Screw the party. Support the candidates who will change the party into an organization that isn’t in love with its wounds and the republican tyrrants who inflicted most of them.

Jane,
You’re right…Lieberman had the opportunity to make a graceful exit. But he thinks that seat in the United States Senate belongs to him. And it’s clear the war-mongering NeoCons are going to do everything in their power to save Joe’s ass.
Maybe a showdown between those of us who believe in American democracy and the NeoCon gang will be a good thing. They have manipulated our foreign policy. Now they want to manipulate our electoral process.

bboop @ 23

When does Joe’s term of office expire? After the November election?

At Noon on the third day of January, 2007.

boy, the local lunchtime news is just completely hysterical about the terror plot… nitwits…

OT: Coulter: Without affirmative action, Rep. Waters couldn’t get a job “that didn’t involve wearing a paper hat”

Pissing and moaning about Joe right now is playing their game. There will be time before November to dismember his campaign, in a planned, national effective campaign.

Today we want statements from Richard Clark, Murtha, Wesley, all those generals that criticized out Irag program, and all the other stuff out there that shows they are not tough on terrorism, Irag is not the war on terror (unless London is now a Sunni stronghold) and they are leading us to disaster.

Somebody should count the money every day and talk about the uses we could make with that money in making airplanes and airports safer, ports safer, winning friend in the middle east (like rebuilding Lebanon) health care, alternative energy development.

Nice set of jowls there,Turdblossum.

Lieberman is very quickly going to come to the realization that he is a laughingstock.
No staff, No support, no chance.

bboop @ 23

When does Joe’s term of office expire? After the November election?

Next January. Congress will go “on recess” shortly, until after the election. Then – win or lose – they’ll all come back to finish up whatever needs finishing.

You know, like the budget that’s supposed to be adopted by October 1. Judging from THOMAS, there’s still a lot to be done on that score.

Ed Deevy–Um, I think they (NeoCon gang) have already manipulated our electoral process? I have discovered in recent days that “Oh, s–t” can be a prayer.

Leadership – I only really see it in Feingold.

From the Burned thread, here was a link:

Mary for now @ 155

Feingold goes for the DLC soft underbelly, and soft overbelly, and soft spine, and soft mushforbrains.

Sixty percent of America is desparately looking for someone with a credible approach and plan — but the Democratic leadership is doing all they can to stifle the Dems who have stepped up to the plate. More than 60% would be looking, if someone were leading.

I think when Bush’s comment today – the one that the media awaited with breathless anticipation, was, “people out there hate us for our freedom” that put sealed to the deal for a lot of people.

He’s as worthless as they come.

Being “just as worthless” won’t win the day and more importantly – it’s a horrible failure of public service and almost a betrayal of this country. The Vichy gov wasn’t the same as the Nazis, but it wasn’t enough different to matter. Right now, Dem. leadership isn’t different enough to matter.

I emailed Ken Nighthorse Salazar yesterday morning, asking for an unequivocal statement of support for Lamont. So far no reply.

Next chance we get (2008, I guess) I guess we’ll have to do a Ned on him. We were so happy when he was elected, too.

“Unfortunately, today’s “terror news” will serve to send any potental Democratic “leadership” scurrying for cover, like the groundhog fearing its shadow, at least for the time being.”

No. No. No. This terror plot provides an excellent example of the TRUE threat to this country. Georgie took his eye off the ball with his ill-fated adventure in Iraq. This plot illustrates that the true danger that 130,000 of our brave men could be chasing are the terrorists. Osama? Aren’t we still chasing him? You want to fight your global war on terror? Well you can’t! You have our armed forces bogged down in Iraq. Heckava Job lil’ Bush.

ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTTAAAAAAAAAACK!

Ex-spook Larry Johnson currently on the ground in Europe pretty much nails the Terror Threat here:

British Lose Their Minds

by
Larry C Johnson

I’m sitting in Europe, scheduled to take British Air back to the states on Friday, and I’m watching British Authorities meltdown in the face of an alleged terrorist plot. Rule of thumb–initial, panicked reports are usually unreliable. The Brits reportedly have taken at least 18 people into custody–all residents of Great Britain.

[snip]

[Edited by CHS. You can read the rest of Larry’s post here. We don’t post entire articles due to copyright issues. Please just post a snippet and a link. Thanks!]

Great post as per usual Jane. I thought Thread Theorist @ 75, prior thread, made an excellent suggestion, which I suspect, Ned is already considering. …..”My suggestion is that the Lamont campaign resume its TV ads in advance of such polling….”
Ned’s done his part. It’s now time for Dodd, the Big Dawg, Schumer, and Reed to do their’s. This is a results orientated business and anything short of Joe’s withdrawal and endorsement of Ned is unacceptable. Given that they have failed miserably up to this point, the best way they can do that is to aggressively help Ned raise money immediately. Per thread theorist, above, this allows Ned to make the kind of large media buys that are going to affect the next few rounds of polling results. If the first poll results after the election show a softening of support for Joe in the General, as I suspect they will, this will exponentially increase the pressure on him to withdraw and make it even tougher for him to raise money.
It’s doesn’t cost me a dime to throw in my two cents about what is an extremely high stakes poker game. I’m sure Ned’s campaign has thought this through a lot more thoroughly than thread theorist and I.
OT, I hope Marion Steinfels at least confirms receipt of your very nice post about her yesterday. As I suspect a lot of FDL’ers are, I am very interested in where she lands.
Since she has so much free time on her hands, maybe she wants to write a post for FDL? We understand she cannot say bad things about Joe or give away secrets from his campaign. She is a Democrat, however, and she did get Joe at the end to blast Rumsfeld.

bustedknuckles 45 -

I wish I shared your optimism. I think Lieberman is getting stronger by the minute, hardening his position and digging in his heels. If there are back-door maneuvers to get him out, fine. But we haven’t heard any confirmation of that.

I think he needs to be dragged out the front door, personally.

Here’s what I posted at DailyKos yesterday as a comment to a diary asking to stop attacking Lieberman:

Tell Lieberman to stop going on national shows like Good Morning America and continuing his anti-democratic rhetoric and his smears against high profile Democrats in the party. Every appearance where he talks about the “crazies” like Maxine Waters and how this isn’t “Bill Clinton’s party” anymore (oh the irony) becomes more footage available for GOP smear campaigns.

Lieberman is beneath contempt for what he is doing, subverting the very nature of the democratic process and continuing his role of actively undermining the Democratic Party. He has no respect for his (former) colleagues nor the voters of Connecticut who exercised their rights as Americans to chose whom they want to represent them.
And since he won’t exit gracefully (as much as he can at this point), he needs to be driven hard into the ground. He’s the one who’s chosen to scorch the earth, so no whining when he is answered in kind.

Steve Gilliard also picked up on Lieberman’s subversion of democracy. It starts with people like Lieberman having an out-of-control sense of entitlement, but it will evolve into never accepting the results of elections, pushing us into a de facto totalitarian government.

For the sake of democracy itself Lieberman has to bow out or be destroyed.

PsychoJo needs to be MADE to go! Delusional old bastard thinks he’s freaking James Brown or something. Next time he puts himself in front of a camera, some good Dem needs to throw a cape over his shoulders and pull him off the stage.

I don’t understand why we haven’t heard anything from Lamont, now that he has this incredible platform in the national media. He just won an awesome victory, and all the bigwigs of the party are uniting around HIM. His quiet decency and reticent demeanor obviously played well with the voters, and that’s him after all. But I don’t see why he can’t throw a few punches at (a) Lieberman, and (b) the GOP-punditry junta. He should increase the pressure on Joe to drop out, and he should correct this silly story going around that he is a leftist, an extremist, a radical, a hippy, or whatever other names they’re calling him. He should say, “look, I’m a normal, family guy, just one of the MAJORITY of regular Americans who think this war and this president are failures. I have the same policy positions as all the other Democrats, especially on Iraq. All these stories they’re telling you about what a leftist radical I am are absurd.”

McGee @
51

Ex-spook Larry Johnson currently on the ground in Europe pretty much nails the Terror Threat here:

Good stuff, but next time give us a link and a snip; don’t steal the whole post, even if you give Larry credit!

1,237DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher:

FITZ (I guess… is he still breathin?)

First of all what the hell is goin’ on with the site server Janie, did you contract with “Rove.com” for service, it’s impossible ta pull you folks up and then if I do getcha I can’t access the extended entries…wazup with that??

But more importantly, do not despair of the continuin’ Lieberman presence in the Connecticut senate race…you have it right, Rove is usin’ Lieberman as he was designed ta be used, as an agent provocateur and suicide bomber inside the Democratic Party. This has become clear to EVERYONE except the corporate talkin’ heads…yes, this has become clear to EVERYONE includin the greater portion of the voting public.

The Rovian-fascist strategy of assassinating opposition as traitors will not work as long as 60% of the population opposes not only the war(s) but all the major domestic and economic policies of the junta.

The longer Lieberman stays in the race, the more attention he draws to the failures of the administration and the larger the parody of himself he becomes. We must be careful not to spend all our resources fightin’ Joe Lieberman…jest pat ‘im on the head, click our tongues and move on attackin the administration and all the failed policies that are bankrupting’ Connecticut and the country.

Rove and the fascist junta he enabled with the full cooperation and fundin’ of corporate America is done. We are experiencing’ exactly what the Germans experienced at the end of Wiemar, the oligarchy and corporate players have begun to split. They began the 1930’s thinkin’ they could control Hitler and the fascist machine he was buildin…when he took power, they realized he was takin ‘em over the cliff but they had disabled the political structure that could take ‘im out and he ended up eatin their lunch.

The Democrats have finally (belatedly) coalesced to save the adversary, pluralistic democratic system. We still have the vote and we now have a majority of the votin population…as long as the economy continues ta melt and the bodies from the war keep stackin up, the only way the Republofascists maintain power will be with a declaration of national emergency and martial law.

So you go Joe, run down the street naked with yer hair on fire and scream that the commies have stolen the fire extinguisher!! It’s all good, we have this thing won unless we take our eyes offa the enemy…Joe Lieberman is our friend, the fascists in power in the Whitehouse and congress are the enemy.

KEEP THE FAITH AND KEEP YER EYES ON THE TARGET!!

PeteCO:

Salazar was elected in 2004. He has four years before he needs to worry about reelection. Maybe the Colorado netroots could take the opportunity to remind him that he couldn’t have been elected without help from Democrats, and he needs to start acting like one.

“Pissing and moaning about Joe right now is playing their game. There will be time before November to dismember his campaign, in a planned, national effective campaign.”
WRT CT, I respectfully disagree.
Joe is at his weakest now. I have a comment awaiting moderation in which I argue, along with others, that the next round of polling is critical. If Joe can show to donors that the pre-Primary polling showing him winning the three-way holds, Ned’s task becomes exponentially more difficult.
WRT to national issues, I agree, but knocking Joe out now only frees more money up for other races. If Joe is still “in” in CT, Ned needs boatloads of cash to defeat him and Schlessinger.

I’m reposting this from a much earlier thread – this morning’s letter to DiFi… (drip, drip, drip – eventually we may wear away the stone)

Dear Senator Feinstein -

I’m watching the news this morning on the busted up terror plot out of Heathrow. As former Coast Guard, I am also aware of how vulnerable we are in the area of port security. I’m sure there are other areas we could be positively spending our efforts and money that would be equally important.

As I watch the mountains of U.S. money flow into Iraq, I wonder just how vulnerable we’ve been left by this misguided adventure. Don’t you think our resources could be better spent on protecting THIS country?

It is time to leave Iraq, in a quick and orderly manner. The costs to us in human lives is tragic. The costs to us in shear dollars is disgusting.

Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxx

keep after ‘em, keep after ‘em, keep after ‘em

PeteCO at 11:12 am – Salazar’s already gone over to the dark side. Here’s a list of Liebercrats on board with Joe so far, via CNN:

Ben Nelson (D-Nebraska)
Tom Carper (D-Delaware)
Mark Pryor (D-Arkansas)
Ken Salazar (D-Colorado)

The Tony Snow / Karl Rove / Dick Cheny reactions kind of remind me of that line in the movie The Right Stuff.

When they go in that door, they look fine, but when they come out, they look . . . scared.

A Democrat who comes as close as possible to sharing their values got slammed about as bad as one can get slammed in politics.

And all they can do is cry …
911 terrorists
911 terrorists

Pure demagoguery

Their day is coming

Vartan 7:

I don’t understand why we haven’t heard anything from Lamont, now that he has this incredible platform in the national media.

Respectfully, Ned can’t shoulder this burden alone. It would almost be unseemly if he did. The party needs to step up. Ned’s just been through a grueling contest – he’s given so much already. He needs solid support.

….”I don’t understand why we haven’t heard anything from Lamont…”
You missed Hardball and Jim Lehrer’s NEWS HOUR. I heard he was on Larry King and I’m sure there were a lot other interviews I missed.

neurophius @ 33

Has Bill Clinton spoken yet? He is in a unique position to create some party discipline by not only endorsing Lamont and pledging to campaign and raise money for him, but making clear that Lieberman has left the Democratic Party, is hurting it by cut-and-running, is aiding the Republicans, and deserves no support from Democrats. And calling for an end to the “Clinton Democrat or Sharpton Democrat” nonsense.

Well, Mr. President?

I think you’re right, of course, but I had another idea in my daydreaming. I wonder if Al Gore could be convinced to campaign for Lamont? That would sure add steam and sizzle to the fire. I’ve also been wondering if it is time for Jane, Christy, etal to contact the FBI with suspicions that Lieberman supporters are hacking this site! (Just kidding, kinda, but I had a miserable time getting on this morning, and so far, I haven’t heard an official explanation, although I looked for one. After all, it’s not election day today!)

Well, I just strolled back to TRex’s landmark Late Night and found someone who feels the need to disagree with us. In fact, she feels so strongly, she posted her comment twice.

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-236669

The militarily-experienced among us will recognize the type . . . .

Joe’s “for my state, my party and my country, I cannot let this[election result] stand” really means “. . .I cannot stand it”

Fidel, I’m waiting for confirmation of your $50 contribution to FDL.

Peterr @
56

McGee @
51

Ex-spook Larry Johnson currently on the ground in Europe pretty much nails the Terror Threat here:

Good stuff, but next time give us a link and a snip; don’t steal the whole post, even if you give Larry credit!

Peterr,

Sorry, good point – I’d already pasted the item into a word file and sent to friends – didn’t have the url handy. Here’s the link from Larry’s blog No Quarter:

http://noquarter.typepad.com/m…..se_th.html

cujo359 11:03 am — Jeepers. Wonder no more if those DSCC DLC-sympathizers have read Eli Pariser’s bit in WaPo today on the end of triangulation.

Definitely not.

They are exercising a kind of test on Lamont; Lamont has to chew through his own money and buy his way into the Senate as a show of his commitment to the cause before they’ll back him.

Nevermind that a simple majority of Democrats already made up their minds and determined Lamont’s commitment to their cause to be credible.

DSCC is irrelevant. Not one dime will they get from me.

simper, fidel

The vote that Joe is gonna split is on the right, not the left. None of the Dems who went for Lamont on Tuesday are going to change their mind. There’s something like 70-80% of Dems who are against his Independent run. No joy there.

If Joe wants to win, he’s going to need to make himself a convincing Republican, until he finally realizes that, once he becomes a threat to them getting the seat, he’s disposable. Fool.

I know nothing about Lieberman refusing to speak with Dodd, but I have to think that there are all kinds of behind the scenes discussions going on, if not with Joe then with Hadassah. I think that’s why Joe is quiet today and perhaps why the Dems are not denouncing him or his pathetic temper tantrum of the last two days. These are politicians after all, and soothing egos and making backroom deals is what they are good at.

Apparently the Clintons go way back with Lieberman. Apparently Bill worked on Lieberman’s first political run – for CT state senator in 1970. I have to believe that there are lots of people trying to get Lieberman to come to his senses.

Regardless, the Dems should be reframing the crap that’s spewing from the airwaves and sources of BushCo stenography (like the editorial in WaPo). They can point out BushCo’s weaknesses in this War on Terrur, without saying something offensive about Lieberman. Starting Monday, if they can’t get him to drop out and stop trashing Dems, then they should come out against him with both barrels blasting.

“If allowed to do so by major Democrats like Schumer, Reid and Clinton, he will single-handedly undermine the ability of Democrats to run nationally against an unpopular war”

This is a little hard to follow- so Lieberman (who has apparently become one of the most powerful men in the world) can singlehandedly prevent other democrats from running against the war? How does that work? I believe that Schumer, Reid, and Clinton have endorsed Lamont- so what is it that they might do to enable Joe?

Democrats will, for the most part, run against the war in one or more of three ways:

1) It was a mistake

2) It has been mismanaged without oversight

3) We ought to:

a) come up with a plan to leave
b) announce a schedule to leave
c) leave NOW

I can’t see how individual candidate’s decisions regarding which to chose from this chinese menu depends much on what Joe does.

I can’t beleave Turdblossom still there!!
Fitz?
We need you very much.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20051118.html

Nice analysis RW.

dab

I pray you are right.

If Lieberman respectfully steps out of the race, his reputation will be burnished and he will retain his dignity. If not… well… it is going to be ugly and Lieberman will go down in history as a turncoat and an enabler of the worst administration in the 20th century.

Lieberman should take this into consideration. He needs to do the right thing.

sorry if what i say is a repeat of others. its so hard to read all the comments.

in the beginning something (money? power?) made joe turn to the right.
the hand of rove has been helping him from way back(wonder when that started?)

the hand of rove will never be seen. (It was some passive event like “joe, now buy some crappy low end toobz bandwidth stuff and let it crash on its own. then cry” hacked by bloggers”!

do that until next news cycle when i come to the rescue and announce our support for you.

Then get tony(brokeback poodle)blair and negroponte(lifetime darthvader club member) to bust open the terrorist gatorade plot.(maybe a real plot but who can we believe?)

rove just hops from one news cycle to another. as soon as one lame item starts to get examined, they say look over there(”bright shiny keys!”)

this is where the brew simmers now. more nasty ingredients will be added and will be spooned out for every close 2006 race.

Ned was great when he said “i’ll send my people over to help you.”
bet they didn’t expect that.

in conclusion, you know there’s a big master plan for 2006 hidden somewhere.

we need a mole.

Good to see you back in these parts, rwcole

I agree that the next poll will have an impact on Lieberman’s ability to raise money, but it’s just another metaphor for Iraq. First, there’s an election, which should seal his return to the Senate. Then, he comes in close enough, which should help “turn the corner.” Then, he’ll justify “staying the course” with the results of the next poll. After that will be another something that will justify his march of folly.

Joe is not part of the fact-based community. He’s lost three straight elections. But he’ll continue to find any event as evidence to support his conclusion that he is the lone individual who can lead America.

This goes along with the traditional media who see everything as a win for the GOP (My favorite was Hamden… if SCOTUS had backed Bush, that then would have been a win for Dems?). It has nothing to do with reality.

I think the October Surprise is going to be a fully busted open war in the ME

I see Joe as an AIPAC man and they want him there. He is on a mission to do their bidding (his bidding). That is where his Iraqi position comes from.

Along the way he has been bought by lobbyists and he is doing their bidding and lovin it.

He is not what americans need in the senate. He is what americans need to put in jail! hahahaha

Jane, how come you never talk dirty in posts anymore? Not a single swear could I find in this one, although it is super.

“Time to go, Joe.” How hard is that to say, Senate Dems?

… and I love this scene:
“Knock knock”
“Who’s there?”
“Chris Dodd”
[crickets]
“Joe, it’s Chris Dodd, I know you’re in there, open the door.”
[crickets]
“Hadassah, tell Joe I need to talk to him right now”
[crickets]
“Joe! Hadassah! Answer this door!”
[crickets]

… and Connecticut’s Senior Senator, having already announced his 2008 Presidential bid, storms away, wondering: what new fresh hell is this?

Kos has a preview of a Rasmussen poll that is still in the field. Kos is hinting that, so far, the race between Lamont and Joe is statistically tied. In my mind that is not good news. But I am grumpy today.

Man, I am so naive! I just never considered the possibility that the DLC mandarins would pay a bit of lip service and then avidly support Lamont’s loss by doing nothing.

I kept waiting for some push-back after the vomitous press coverage. I keep hoping to see the pictures of Reid locking up Lieberman’s leadership office and packing Joe’s things into the maintenance closet. I keep wondering who is going to step up and have the balls to take on Cheney’s smears and Rove’s slimes.

Whew…I just plumb forgot the possibility that the DLCers are so much more about serving their special interest masters than assuring a Dem victory in November. They will ensure that the fix is in and the oligarchy will continue to role and perpetuate itself.

What a schmuck – bangs head on wall!!

well, the turd will actually be helping Lamont if Joe runs..we need to dilute the Republican vote away from Joe, a Republican candidate is what we need

close tag

Please, please, PLEASE, do not let anyone push D.C. consultant into the Lamont campaign. I am begging… but the silence is really troublesome at this point.

punaise @ 72

simper, fidel

[punaise makes fists - extends index fingers - blows on the right one - blows on the left one - smiles]

We need to let the DLC know they have two choices:

1. Ensure a resounding defeat of Lieberman in the general by whatever means necessary
2. Face a netroots that will sponsor independent bids for every progressive Democrat that loses a primary

The ticket splitting will destroy the party. Completely.

rwcole at 11:31 am – Joe runs cover for the GOP by providing a “sober democrat” who agrees with them. Joe isn’t all-powerful, but what power he does have is exaggerated by the GOP, as well as those in the media who use his “responsible” stance as a talking point against anti-war Dems.

I am begging… but the silence is really troublesome at this point.

Lamont hasn’t been silent. Check out his great Hardball interview from yesterday posted at MSNBC’s website.

Lotus (66), this is the problem that won’t be overcome in our lifetime. These Bush-minded people will never recognize/admit the truth of this Administration’s utter folly so it goes on and on with their help. Education is needed but not sought when denial works so well.

Ann in AZ

Visible support from Al Gore for Ned Lamont would be great. John Kerry and Hillary Clinton have endorsed Lamont. I don’t know whether John Edwards has; if not, I hope he will. What other Democrats are being talked about as potential 2008 presidential candidates? Support from Lamont should be a condition for Democrats taking them seriously.

This loserman show is the reason why we should all start campigning for a federal term limit for members of congress. These idiots feel entitled after they have been in power for more than a term. They forget they serve at the mercy of the people they represent.

OldCoastie @ 82

I think the October Surprise is going to be a fully busted open war in the ME

ba-bing. and an indefinetely suspended election…

rw, last night when you commented, your congratulatory note, I opined that I hoped we would see more comments from you.
Then today, I read your 11:31. Jane’s clear as a bell and she’s accurate. Your comment ignores turnout. Jane doesn’t mention it explicitly, but that’s the new elephant in the living room.
I know you were dead set against primary battles back from when Jane first started backing Ned. Prior to adopting Ned, you were the FDL man on JAR. You elevated the discussion a whole lot with your incisive knowledge of the polls. Nobody even talks about Bush’s JAR since you went on “vacation” from FDL and that is our loss imo.
With all due respect, however, the very few comments you have made in the last few months almost always IIRC and imho, appear to be taking pretty gratuitous shots at Jane.
IMHO, she has shown great patience in not responding more stridently than she has.
When I first came to FDL, I got roughed up pretty good. You stood up through your comments and asked people to give me a chance. I will always be in your debt for that. Without it, I might not have stuck around and that would have been my loss.
I don’t have any answers. I still think FDL is better off with you than without you. But, if you make comments against Jane’s content that I think are gratuitous or inaccurate, I’m not holding back any more.

someone want to close the underline tag please?

What’s amazing is that even Chris Matthews picked this up. If you head over to the Hardball transcript from last night, you can see Matthews asking Mehlman if he is endorsing Schlessinger. Mehlman responded with some nonsense about ‘…the people of Connecticut making up their own minds…’ Matthews literally called Mehlman on this pathetic dodge and laughed at him. So, not all the press buys into the Rove talking points, but they clearly all have the opportunity to do so. It is, perhaps, a good sign that someone like Chris Matthews–who basically worships power–was so eager to slap Mehlman in the face for this stooge strategy.

In the same show, Matthews interviewed Lamont, and the end of which he endorsed him so strongly that I thought he was going to start crying.

Very interesting stuff.

Although off topic, let’s think about this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..26954.html

The Bush administration has drafted amendments to the War Crimes Act that would retroactively protect policymakers from possible criminal charges for authorizing humiliating and degrading treatment of detainees, according to lawyers who have seen the proposal.

The White House, without elaboration, said in a statement that the bill “will apply to any conduct by any U.S. personnel, whether committed before or after the law is enacted”…

(snip)

Wait a minute – isn’t this ex post facto legislation? Please look at the third paragraph of Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution, which clearly states that “No bill of attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed”.

Then let’s look at this excerpt from Wikipedia:

Prohibited by Article I section 9 (applying to federal law) and section 10 (applying to state law) of the U.S. Constitution. Over the years, when deciding ex post facto cases, the United States Supreme Court has referred repeatedly to its ruling in the Calder v. Bull case of 1798, in which Justice Chase established four categories of unconstitutional ex post facto laws. See also Fourteenth Amendment, Bouie v. City of Columbia, Rogers v. Tennessee

A wee suggestion about using bold, italic, and underline:

Use it in the middle, not the end (at least have a few words after it) and use the lovely Preview button to ensure you have closed your html.

We always enjoy being connected here at the lake but overlapping underlining is a little bit too much of a connection. :)

neurophius @ 93

Ann in AZ

Visible support from Al Gore for Ned Lamont would be great. John Kerry and Hillary Clinton have endorsed Lamont. I don’t know whether John Edwards has; if not, I hope he will. What other Democrats are being talked about as potential 2008 presidential candidates? Support from Lamont should be a condition for Democrats taking them seriously.

I believe Edwards was one of the first to call Ned to give congrats.

How is Joe’s running as an Independent “splitting the party?” That’s chickenshit winger talk. They’re scared to death.

I agree with Ned on this one. Joe’s independent run will only dilute the conservative vote.

lotus 11:24 am — yeah. Classic, that one.

NAVY. Lots of action on the ground there.

And TownHall domain, too — cripes, what a crock of shite. She’s a member of the Wurlitzer.

I’m not going to bother to check, but she might even be paid to be such a pain-in-the-*ss b*tch-on-wheels.

Makes me wonder all the more if there was an attempted attack this morning here.

neurophius, Edwards was, I believe, the first national Dem figure to call and congratulate Lamont.

Let’s face it. Without blogs like FDL, the traditional media losers would have ignored Lamont completely. It is going to take a sustained effort online to keep Ned’s voice out there throughout the campaign.

GrandmaJ, nip back over to windcatpond for a message from Anne (and my amen).

helina handbasket @ 7

Unfortunately, today’s “terror news” will serve to send any potental Democratic “leadership” scurrying for cover, like the groundhog fearing its shadow, at least for the time being.

If anyone would care to pay attention, which would be giving them too much credit, they would see that this is exactly what Ned Lamont has been warning about.

Lamont has been saying all along that the stupid war in Iraq is taking our eye off the ball and that we are creating more terrorists with our foreign policy.

He said Bush-Lieberman’s foreigh policy has made us less safe.

Um, he’s right and anybody ought to be able to see it.

I wish Ned would go on television today and say “This is what I’ve been warning about for 8 months.”

Joe Leperman, anyone?

Honestly, it’s time to stop talking about Lieberman and start talking about Ned Lamont, THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

I’ll take it a step further, if there’s a debate between now and election day, Lieberman shouldn’t be invited. Traditionally, second place primary finishers aren’t invited to fall debates. Invite Lamont and Blackjack Schlesinger and that’s it.

If he wants to be an independent, let Leperman scrape and claw for camera time. He lost a primary. He hasn’t earned it lately. It’s time to treat him like a staph infection at an Open Wound Convention.

I probably should pull myself together and stop cackling over sweet victory and schadenfreude over the Lieberman/Sean Smith freak show gone bust, because this looks pretty serious. On the other hand, I think Lieberliar is his own worst enemy. He is vindictive and selfish and if he keeps whining (partisanship nadada), he’ll feel more abandoned,whine some more and then be abandoned. He’ll probably see acts of betrayal everywhere.That must wear on Chris Dodd and the Clintons. The partisanship thing is so out of tune, because I see Dems are framing opposition to Bush as standing up for this country and its traditions and the constitution.

Here’s a question…or two…

Who, exactly, is going to be able to get a word in edge-wise with all-terror, all-the-time? Is the MSM even asking Democrats to speak on this British terror plot – are they even getting opportunities to to interject some reality into these conversations?

I agree that we need to stop letting them put us in the crazy box. I posted something on the last thread that said we need to play this game our way, and highlight as often as possible that the GOP is essentially chasing its tail on almost every issue out there.

Cheney is someone almost no one trusts farther than his Humpty-Dumpty body could be thrown, so why are we wringing our hands as if Dick Cheney has the last word? Am I the only one who sees the absurdity in according this evil incompetent any credibility to speak about national security and defense issues? He’s the architect of this mess, for crying out loud, and he and all of his cronies have just gotten richer and richer over the last 3 1/2 years on the blood of our service men and women and innocent civilians. He should be on trial somewhere, not being bowed and scraped to.

I am in such a bad mood today, I should just go punch a pillow into submission…

Check out the front page of hte NYT web site. Joe is at it again, capitalizing on this atttack to smear lamont.

Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 100

Although off topic, let’s think about this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..26954.html

The Bush administration has drafted amendments to the War Crimes Act that would retroactively protect policymakers from possible criminal charges for authorizing humiliating and degrading treatment of detainees, according to lawyers who have seen the proposal.

Wait a minute – isn’t this ex post facto legislation?

No – Congress can make something that was illegal yesterday into something legal today and dismiss any potential punishments. What they can’t do is make something that was legal yesterday into something illegal today and then punish you for breaking a law that was not in effect at the time.

This is a little hard to follow- so Lieberman (who has apparently become one of the most powerful men in the world) can singlehandedly prevent other democrats from running against the war?

Joe would suck up a lot of the oxygen about the debate, and he will be on every single cable news show every day talking about it. It’s not about physically preventing other Democrats from talking, it’s about drowning out the message. You know that.

I was going to be snide but I will restrain myself. Republicans tend to sneak narratives within narratives by the choice of the words they use. Cut and run is an example. We have been in Iraq something like 3 years and 4 1/2 months. World War II for us lasted 3 years 9 months. After this length of time, no exit we make from Iraq can be considered cutting and running. Cut and run is nothing more than misdirection, trying to throw potential critics on the defensive. When someone says cut and run, we should immediately counter with: We’ve been there for ages, things are getting worse, Bush didn’t know what he was doing then, he doesn’t now, how many more Americans have to die for his mistakes? How many?

Rayne @ 11:26 am (#71) – To me, the DSCC is beoming irrelevant, anyway. They appear to be primarily interested in courting big donors, who tend to favor “moderate” candidates. Of course, in this case, “moderate” means “sympathetic to the needs of the upperclass”.

With the ability to donate directly at candidate’s websites and things like ActBlue, the DSCC is irrelevant to folks like us. We can send our money directly where we want it to go now.

Ned Lamont needs to come out real soon and make a very tough
speech on the Democrats approach to national security and how the
Republicans are not truly safeguarding America. The other centrist
Democrats are scarred that he will become a McGovern to the
Democrats so they will let him hang on his own. Does Ned Lamont
have it in him to rise to this occasion before he gets tar and feathered by Rove, Cheney and the loser. There is more riding on
Ned Lamont than a Senate seat in Ct. The primary in CT. was the
first referendum vote on the war in Iraq and the Republican handling
of the war on terror and the Republican rule of America. Ned Lamont
must capitalilze on this quickly.

Who, exactly, is going to be able to get a word in edge-wise with all-terror, all-the-time?
IMO, Joe just showed the Republicans that. Joe reversed his poll slide once he started blaming Iraq on Rumsfeld, about a week before the primary. If Joe would not have done that, he would have lost by a lot more.
IMO, that’s why DeadEye had his press conference yesterday. IMHO, DeadEye was using Joe as a way to send a message to the GOP. He doesn’t want them doing what Joe did. Rummy is DeadEye’s firewall. Once Rummy is gone, DeadEye knows Bush/Rove will scapegoat him.

“If we just pick up like Ned Lamont wants us to do, get out by a date certain, it will be taken as a tremendous victory by the same people who wanted to blow up these planes in this plot hatched in England,” Mr. Lieberman said at a campaign event at lunchtime in Waterbury, Conn. “It will strengthen them and they will strike again.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08…..r=homepage

Note to Democratic leaders (since you’re all acting like you “get” the netroots and read our blogs and shit, I’ll be presumptuous here):

Joe Lieberman thinks you’re a bunch of fucking punks. After all, you’re in a party that’s too weak to do anything about him, aren’t you?

That’s why he said, “Sure, I’ll *run* in the ‘Democratic’ primary, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to let it deter me from running in November. As far as I’m concerned, the Democratic primary is a weapon for me to use against Ned Lamont, but that Ned Lamont can’t use against me. Furthermore, I’ve got support from other senators like Ken Salazar, Daniel Inouye, and Tom Carper, who think it’s more important to support me than to support the *DEMOCRATIC* nominee, and if you tell me to get out, you’re going to hurt their feelings, too.”

If you’re leaders of the Democratic party, you need to remind Lieberman and the few other reluctant Democrats who don’t understand what the party is and does that you are its leaders, that this isn’t some sort of fucking commune where everyone has a vote and veto power, like some Weisbergian nightmare of the ’60s, and that their actions are destructive of the party, and therefore to their own ultimate interests.

Or, you can do nothing and prove Joe Lieberman right. What would you rather do?

The following statement appears on Harry Reid’s Give ‘em Hell Harry blog:

“Democratic Leader Harry Reid and DSCC Chair Chuck Schumer issued the following joint statement today on the Connecticut Senate race:

“The Democratic voters of Connecticut have spoken and chosen Ned Lamont as their nominee. Both we and the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC) fully support Mr. Lamont’s candidacy. Congratulations to Ned on his victory and on a race well run.

“Joe Lieberman has been an effective Democratic Senator for Connecticut and for America. But the perception was that he was too close to George Bush and this election was, in many respects, a referendum on the President more than anything else. The results bode well for Democratic victories in November and our efforts to take the country in a new direction.”

I think they can do better than that. It is fine to honor Sen. Lieberman for his past service, but Schumer and Reid need to take it a step further and call for him to drop his independent race. Let’s hope they are already doing that privately. In the meantime, you can provide them with some feedback by going to

http://giveemhellharry.com/pag…..group/vips

and posting a comment. You have to register, but it isn’t hard.

“I’m worried that too many people, both in politics and out, don’t appreciate the seriousness of the threat to American security and the evil of the enemy that faces us — more evil, or as evil, as Nazism and probably more dangerous than the Soviet Communists we fought during the long Cold War,” Mr. Lieberman said.

“We cannot deceive ourselves that we live in safety today and the war is over, and it’s why we have to stay strong and vigilant,” he added.

What a dick. Lamont’s whole point is that we’re not safer today. And it’s the policies Lieberman has been rah-rahing while stifling debate that have prevented us from being as safe as we could be.

I agree… Lamont needs to be front-and-center right now. Not Joe. Get Wes Clark to Connecticut, stat!

1,237 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN GOES ON AND ON AND…

rwcole:

I find myself in complete agreement with you about what is happenin’ right now with regard to the Democrats bein’ able to run against the war…as a matter of fact, as long as Joe Lieberman stays in the race as an independent, he will do more to focus anti-Bush sentiment in Connecticut behind Lamont. Notice that I said “anti-Bush” not jest anti-war…Rove and company need the Democrats to “cut and run” from the victory they have won in the primary. As long as the entire elected Democratic power structure endorses Lamont and isolates Lieberman, Lieberman is the surrogate Bush-Republican, both locally and nationally.

So, I am glad we have yer clear political eyes and voice back on the case…I don’t always agree with you but I think that you have yer eyes on the target and can help to keep our brothers and sisters focused on the target.

KEEP THE FAITH AND WATCH ‘EM SHOOT EACH OTHER!!!

From the NYT’s article that Coz linked to:

“Did Karl Rove write this attack line for Joe?” Mr. Swan said, referring to the president’s senior adviser. Mr. Rove told reporters this morning that he called Mr. Lieberman, whom he described as “a personal friend,” on the primary day on Tuesday to wish him luck against Mr. Lamont.” (Bold is mine)…..

“Asked by a reporter about warm praise that Mr. Lieberman received yesterday from Vice President Dick Cheney, the senator tried to underscore his independence in politics….”

Courant Online Poll question:
http://www.courant.com/news/lo…..ines-local
in sidebar
Are you surprised by the results of the Senate primary?

9.0%
Very (92 responses)

24.2%
Somewhat (249 responses)

66.8%
Not at all (686 responses)

1027 total responses
Results are not scientific

I am having a very good time arranging a list in my head of the “party designations” I’ve seen listed next to Lieberman’s name yesterday and today, such as, (I or R-Stockholm) and (I-Green Room). I really do believe progressives have a much better sense of humor than those cranky ol’ conservatives.
Can we place bets when he’ll quit the race?

John–Sorry if my comment annoyed you- I simply didn’t (don’t) understand the point being made.

Lamont has to take this on directly, IMHO. Lieberman has left himself wide open with this, to make the pesky little Just One Issue his own One Issue. If he wants to argue that Iraq has made it harder for British-born Pakistani-ethnic Muslims to plot against America, if he wants to argue that the American military was more effective than the British Intelligences services in uncovering this plot, take it to him.

Cozumel

“If we just pick up like Ned Lamont wants us to do, get out by a date certain, it will be taken as a tremendous victory by the same people who wanted to blow up these planes in this plot hatched in England,” Mr. Lieberman said

Of course, Mr. Lieberman if you hadn’t gotten us into this mess, we wouldn’t need Lamont to get us out of it. And BTW if you have such insight into what the terrorists are thinking, why aren’t you doing a better job at capturing them? Osama, anyone?

1. I continue to believe that HoJo isn’t stepping aside. He’s in all the way. Ms. Smith wrote that a few days might be needed to gently, privately persuade HoJo to exit. A logical opinion. But it looks like, according to this article, efforts have already been made. And, according to comment 118, HoJo is in full republican campaign bloom here on a Thursday. He’s not going.

2. I now expect Hillary, Bill, Schumer and a few others to PUBLICLY CALL FOR JOE LIEBERMAN TO ABANDON HIS RUN. As far as I’m concerned, Joe is a traitor. Those that give comfort to the enemy are as bad as the enemy itself. I expect Hillary et al not to pull any punches. Otherwise, they only give succor to this traitor.

3. Joe Benedict Arnold Lieberman wants a fight? We’ll give him one. But let’s be smart about this traitor. He still has venom. We’ll fight him bravely, but intelligently. And we’ll beat the traitor. Load up.

Ghostman

“I’m worried that too many people, both in politics and out, don’t appreciate the seriousness of the threat to American security and the evil of the enemy that faces us — more evil, or as evil, as Nazism and probably more dangerous than the Soviet Communists we fought during the long Cold War,” Mr. Lieberman said.

Oh, come on now. This is just getting absurd. Yeah, Al-Qaida is even more evil than that bunch who murdered 6 million Jews and started the deadliest war in history. And their terrorist attacks are way more dangerous than the Soviet nuclear arsenal was.

Jeez, Joe, have a Coke and a smile and shut up already. Fear is Cheney’s business; you pale by comparison.

“We have been in Iraq something like 3 years and 4 1/2 months. World War II for us lasted 3 years 9 months.”

Thanks as always Hugh, this is one of the badly needed talking points that Dems can capitolize on.
WWII had maps. Americans could see the progress that was being made even while lives were being lost. There are no military objectives in Iraq. It’s an occupation. Even US soldier who dies, dies in vain. They are not advancing on a beach head, securing a position of strategic relevance or making America safer. They are dying in a cause which actually makes Amereica less safe, but that’s not their fault.

Current best guess estimates put the number of al qaeda in Iraq at less than 1,000. Joe’s preposterous blabbering that “the terrorists would take over Iraq” if we leave is ridiculous. The Iraqis (25 million) themselves would squish them like a bug

Thanks for the response rw.

I have a theory. It is a theory which is mine. Here is my theory.

I’d been wondering why Rove, Cheney, Snow, et al, have suddenly come out publicly praising Lieberman following the CT primary. Surely they know that this can only hurt HoJo against Lamont, by validating Lamont’s assertions that Joe’s in bed with the Republicans.

But perhaps their tactic has a different agenda. Although my contempt for Chuck Schumer knows no bounds, I actually think the DSCC is making a sound judgment in not funding Lamont. Lieberman, if he grubs and whines his way back into the Senate, will almost certainly, vile as his is, continue to caucus with the Democrats. So whether it’s Ned or RGJoe, Connecticut stays nominally blue. DSCC money is better spent capturing seats from Rethugs. (Don’t get me wrong; I want Lieberman out of all of our lives ASAP, but I’m talking realpolitik here.)

BUT…if the creepiest, crawliest, most fascistic elements of the Republican party keeping lining up behind Joe, and giving their implicit blessing for Connecticut Rethugs to vote for him, this could lead to a drumbeat for Schumer and the DSCC to throw money at the real Democrat, Lamont. This would in turn divert funds otherwise better spent in other states toward securing a Democrat majority.

I think that’s their plan in making the pro-Joe statements they’ve been making: the goal is diversion of precious DSCC dollars away from the states where red and blue are truly in the balance.

Anyway, that’s my theory. It is the theory which is mine.

Samurai Sam @ 12:13 pm (#130) – You’re right. Joe sounds ludicrous when he tries to fear-monger. These terrorists are dangerous than the Soviets were? Are you shittin’ me, Joe?

I now expect Hillary, Bill, Schumer and a few others to PUBLICLY CALL FOR JOE LIEBERMAN TO ABANDON HIS RUN.

I suspect his Independent run will be fruitless even if he doesn’t drop out. The CT liberal and moderate voters cannot be pleased by the way Joe’s handling himself. He’s all but said that the Dem voters in the state don’t matter. And, really, how many GOP voters can there possibly be in blue CT? Joe is probably helping Lamont’s image and fundraising power, if nothing else.

I am not sure this is a bad situation for Ned. The Republicans are compromising Lieberman so badly with Ct voters, as are the lip-service Democrats. Its quite funny to watch. Joe’s getting himself tossed around like a two-bit. It took some effort to convince folks that Joe had compromised himself pretty badly. Here’s proof. I predict many CT republicans will be completely disgusted with Joe’s waffling. A lot of CT Dems understand that BushCo on terrorism has nothing to do with the actual security of the country but are cynical manipulative ploys.

Joe and the MSM keep misrepresenting the views of Connecticut voters. Here is an on-line editorial (published today) that should be required reading for Joe, Karl, and Joe’s new campaign manager. http://www.journalinquirer.com…..&rfi=8

Better yet, maybe they shouldn’t read it, and they could keep pissing off a lot of people by calling us far left fringers….

I actually think the DSCC is making a sound judgment in not funding Lamont.

What?! I missed this. Has this decision been made?

neuro:

Support from Lamont should be a condition for Democrats taking them seriously.

So true. Support for Lamont is a benchmark of their credibility, as far as I’m concerned. Strongly refuting Lieberman’s *me for me* bid is critical too.

I received an e-mail from Barbara Boxer announcing that her PAC for Change is supporting Claire McCaskill’s Senate campaign in Missouri. Good choice, but let’s not forget Connecticut. I don’t know if they read replies, but I wrote back and asked her to actively campaign for Ned Lamont (I think she has already endorsed him?) and to help convince Joe that his time has passed and the Democrats of Connecticut have spoken and he needs stop playing into Karl Rove’s hands and drop his independent race.

Doesn’t the Democratic leadership understand that CT. is ground]
zero right now as the platform to launch a non-stop attack on
the Bush and his failed administration for the coming Fall elections.
There should be Democratic big guns coming through Ct.
daily apppearing with Lamont. It is an opportunity that must be
jumped on quickly……….!

Great link CTVoter, thanks very much for a great article.

1,237 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Come on folks, what we are doin’ here is tryin’ ta snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Ned Lamont and the people of Connecticutt won a HUGE victory over Bush-fascism in the Democratic Party, Joe Liebeman is done, finished, kaputt, over…he can only be a factor if we let him back in. Let Lieberman run out in the street all by himself on the end of the rope Rove has tied around his neck…Lieberman only becomes a factor in November if we give him legitimacy. If we ignor ‘im and keep the heat on the Democratic leadership and keep the troops in the field for Lamont, then we keep this thing focused on the real enemy – Bushfascism. Joe Lieberman is our friend, don’t spend a dime on ‘im let the Republicans run behind ‘im.

KEEP THE FAITH AND LET ‘EM CHASE THEIR OWN GHOSTS!!!

ralphbon @ 12:16 pm (#134) – Unfortunately, there’s a flaw in your theory. There’s no way you can assume that Lieberman is going to remain a Democrat. He’s refused to talk to Chris Dodd, whom he’s worked with for eighteen years, out of pique. He clearly isn’t predictable right now. He could just as easily decide he hates the Democrats for turning on him and vote straight Republican. He could also be the deciding vote in the Senate, which would give him considerable power, and right now the Republicans are the ones who have the favors to give.

Let’s remember that Ned is running for the Senate, not president. That his is the loudest voice right now is bringing a lot of attention to this race (and doesn’t say much that is good about the Democratic leadership), but I think it is a mistake – and jeopardizes his chances to win in November – to push him so far out onto the national stage that CT voters – the ones that crossed their fingers and voted to give the guy a chance – will wonder if this will be another politician who will forget all about them in the glare of the national spotlight.

Not saying he should stop saying all the right things he has been saying for weeks, and not suggesting that he should shoo off the national media (as if he could)- just saying that while the message is important, focus is everything.

Please don’t kick me too hard for saying that.

Most of Lieberman’s weaknesses can be seen in the issues he chooses to discuss. His whining today about Iraq and terrorism underscore the failed policies he has supported with regard to both of these.

Last night on the NewsHour, he lamented (lamonted?)how Lamont had “twisted his record”. A 3 term Senator with 18 years of service should have a record that speaks for itself, unless, of course, that record is weak and sprinkled with support of unpopular issues.

My advice is listen to Lieberman and turn the narrative around. He gives you the counter message.

Paint me cynical but… Everytime we see the presedent polls sag, war polls against his mishandling the war, katrina, and now joe being held accountable a new threat emerges. Remember the Florida connection. Now we have Heathrow. Perhaps coincidence, I’m just saying…

Jenny at 12:18 p.m., and me at 11:45 a.m.

Oops, I should have said “support FOR Lamont should be a condition for Democrats taking them seriously.”

oh *ilson, you’re so funny!

Anne@146

I agree. Lamont should be starting his speeches, or at least half of them, with domestic (ie CT) issues–and as a corollary, non-CT pols should leave, and any who come should stay for a few well-photographed hours only). But Lieberman has put terrorism and national security at the forefront, and attemted to tie Iraq and Al-Qaedism, again; this is dishonest and wrong-headed, and Lamont should exploit it hard.

IMHO Lieberman will bow out gracefully with the week – the Rethugs and the lobbying interests (especially AIPAC) do not want this fight – it’ll open up too many wounds – even though Rove, Mehlman, Cheney et al are making nice to Joe right now that’s just their consistent MO of making temporary political hay wherever and whenever they can.

Actually Joe staying in is probably the political fight WE want. It’s one we can win given the growing opposition in the country to what’s been happpening in Washington (not just Iraq). They do not want this fight ’cause it’s one they could lose, and lose BIG TIME (pun fully intended). So hang in there Joe…?

I’ll admit I’m speculating a bit here….anyone else see it this way?

Paint me cynical but… Everytime a new poll shows the presedent polls sag, from handleing the war, Katrina, now joe being held accountable for his positons, a new threat emerges. Think Florida connection, I’m just saying…

John Casper @ 143

Great link CTVoter, thanks very much for a great article.

No problem. Connecticut is a small state, and we’ve lost sons and daughters in this war. Governor Rell has ordered that flags be flown at half staff whenever a soldier from Connecticut dies in the war. I came into work and saw that our flags were, once again, at half staff. We have a visible reminder every time we lose someone. Perhaps if that were done elsewhere (e.g., by the federal government) people might understand even more the cost we are paying for this ill-conceived invasion. It seems to have had little impact on Senator Lieberman. But then again, he’s so rarely here, he probably didn’t know the custom.

Joe is a hasbeen. Doesn’t matter what Dick or Rover or anyone else says. I still expect him to not run, whether he announces sooner rather or later – you can’t be a populist of 1 (at least not in the real world) – IT’S ONLY BEEN TWO DAYS.

Joe is living in as much of a bubble as Chimpy – as are the Mehlman’s of the world. The bubble of the allegedly great man the world, or at least the people of CT, can’t live without.

But anyone can do the math of an election where say half of the dems who actually voted for Joe, and those who will vote in the general election, vote for Lamont and Joe and the actually repug split their votes. Then, think about the fact that CT is not exactly a wingnut state – much more Rockefeller in its repugism.

Now, a rational person would look at those facts and cut their loses (i.e. save whatever credibility/standing (pick your word) they have left), but if Joe wants to commit Joecide (not my term, I wish it was), then even that isn’t bad for Lamont in particular or dems in general. Loserman cuts a pretty pathetic, whiny, desperate figure these days – its no different than what I’ve posted often about the Coulters and O’Reilly’s of the world and letting them ratchet up their rhetoric till their accusing everyone of being either a traitor or a moron – and he is not making friends or influencing people, in fact, his comments and actions are probably having the opposite effect, which isn’t a bad thing.

From the NYTimes
“Lieberman Seizes on Terror Arrests to Attack Rival”
Hey Joe, what you doin’ with that gun in your hand….?
Go away, we don’t want you.
Think the time for playing nice is over? I do.

Here’s a website tracking RGJoe’s UNendorsements:

http://www.unendorsed.blogspot.com/

nytimes reporting that lieberman just said:

“If we just pick up like Ned Lamont wants us to do, get out by a date certain, it will be taken as a tremendous victory by the same people who wanted to blow up these planes in this plot hatched in England,” Mr. Lieberman said at a campaign event at lunchtime in Waterbury, Conn. “It will strengthen them and they will strike again.”

talk about a carbon copy from the rovian playbook. i’m disappointed, but honestly not suprised that lieberman would leverage people’s fear and anxiety to keep his seat and bash lamont.

i hope lamont will use this as a way to tell the republicans (that includes you joe) to stfu with their m.o. of trotting out the specter of terrorism to maintain power.

also, can someone fill me in on lieberman’s logic? there’s been no determination as to who the terrorists in london are — so how does this relate to iraq? must be joe’s magic mirror that twists a thwarted operation in the U.K. to a policy of withdrawal from iraq.

I just came across this posting on ScienceBlogs, Science losing a good friend in Lieberman. The posting is fairly neutral, merely stating the fact that Lieberman’s office has been very good to the scientific community in terms of funding. It immediatly called out to me that this is a constituency that Lamont should reach out to and assure that he will continue to support as well if not better than Holy Joe. The last paragraph in the posting is what prompted me to post this diary:

In the end you make your own political choices for your own reasons. But considering the voluminous whining I read in Science Blog Nation every time a budget comes along that doesn’t bestow 14% increases on NIH, NSF, NASA and the like, I expect a lot of concerned scientists to be jumping on Lieberman’s indy ticket, realizing that losing Joe means losing one of the loudest, most consistent voices for S&T funding.

neuro 148 -

I totally got your meaning. :)

anne 145 -

Agreed, and I won’t kick you. I mentioned upthread it is almost unseemly for Ned to lead the parade. It assumes too much. He has already spoken with his words and deeds and hard-earned money and by the sweat of his brow. He can be a voice in the chorus (and he is) but he should not be called upon to be the leading light here.

And what does Iraq have to do with 9/11? Hummmmmmmmmmmm?

Paint me cynical but… Everytime a new poll shows the presedent polls sag, from handleing the war, Katrina, now joe being held accountable for his positons, a new threat emerges. Think Florida connection, now Heathrow. I’m just saying…

…and your little dog too says at 107:

If anyone would care to pay attention, which would be giving them too much credit, they would see that this is exactly what Ned Lamont has been warning about.

Lamont has been saying all along that the stupid war in Iraq is taking our eye off the ball and that we are creating more terrorists with our foreign policy.

He said Bush-Lieberman’s foreigh policy has made us less safe.

Um, he’s right and anybody ought to be able to see it.

Anyone care to comment about how it also “brings home” the fact that just because we’re fighting them “over there” doesn’t mean we won’t have to fight them over here. It tells us that diligence in port security and at our borders and air terminals, and keeping our eyes open for domestic terrorists of all stripes, is more important than how many foreign born terrorists we kill, because for each one that we kill, two more are created. At this point, it seems like overkill and counter-productive. Besides, the people that died in the Oklahoma bombing are just as dead as the people that died on 9/11, and we seem to have forgotten that.

This is frustrating on a huge and dangerous level. On a smaller scale, but really just as important – which I will explain in a moment – it’s personally frustrating in my day to day interactions. When I try to express my opinions to rightwingnuts about this Lieberman mess, or any other issue for that matter, I have few if any Democrats or even journalists I can point to that are verbally or by their actions backing me. It. Is. Infuriating!

Thank goodness for FDL and Glenn Greenwald and others. You all give me hope and comfort…but still, as Jane has written in this post, where the fuck are the Dems on this thing? Why do they insist on giving Karl Rove everything for nothing?

I’m just wondering why people support Joe Lieberman. If they are pro-Iraq occupation, they should vote Republican. If they are pro-bipartisanship, they frankly don’t have a candidate to vote for. Lieberman thinks he’s bipartisan but where’s the Republican reciprocity? What have the GOP done for Connecticut or Democrats? Nothing at all. That’s not bipartisanship. That’s capitulation. No wonder Cheney and Rove love him. Is that really what Lieberman supporters want? Capitulation? I’d really like to know.

Some Lieberman supporters are buying into neocon rhetoric that Lamont is too “left.” The next time you hear that ask them what it means. Do you even know? Lamont says the war in Iraq is failed foreign policy. That’s left? Progressive bloggers say Iraq is an occupation that’s depleting our military power. That’s left?

Democrats are moving forward, not left.

Republicans have us in a never-ending holding pattern in Iraq, in jurassic and costly oil technologies, in fear over 9/11, over threats they ignored in 2001 and are fabricating today. Now they’re looking for Egyptian students who may or may not be terrorists. This hit and miss war on terror isn’t cutting it.

Republicans say stay the course towards fear and a foreign policy of strutting and groping! Here’s the deal: they want to keep us in fear today so there’s no time to worry about the future — our jobs, our retirement, our social security, our environment/evolving cesspool.

Cheney keeps running around yelling that the sky is falling and so you should vote Republican. Who’s the freakin’ coward?

Lamont, progressive bloggers and Democrats willing to listen aren’t afraid of planning for the future. That’s the difference between voting Republican/Lieberman and voting Democrat:

Republican/Lieberman voters are those who let themselves be caught in the beam of oncoming headlights, frozen by fear and immovable.

Lamont, progressive bloggers and true Democrats are those unwilling to be frozen by the fear of terrorism and daring to plan for a better future with the absolute conviction that tomorrow is coming and it has to be better.

Prober @ 12:24 pm (#148) – You don’t have to be cynical to explain that pattern. Bush’s approval ratings have been dropping ever since he took office. He got a huge boost after Sept. 11, 2001, and many of the terrorist and other “War on Terrah”-related successes have boosted his ratings since. Other than that, it’s been a long slide.

The alerts and occasional successes each halt a slide. It figures that his ratings would be sliding normally, given how badly he’s running the country and the natural trends for any President. You’re not going to have many of these terrorist alerts during a ratings boom, because there are no ratings booms unrelated to terrorist incidents or occasional successes.

In short, these things occur during ratings slides due to the fact that the ratings are nearly always sliding, not as the result of some conspiracy.

another one for my empire of Joe-mockery — http://www.LieberLoser.com !

Cujo, there are of course no guarantees in life, but the likelihood of Joe bolting to the R’s is really very low, IMHO. His whole schpiel revolves around his love of, and loyalty to, the party he’s worked so hard to make so worthless.

thank g*d ned is one handsome son of a b*tch.
joe, on the other hand, has the face of a deflated cantalope.

No comment here – just checking to see if I’m being automatically moderated no matter what I post….

neurophius @ 141

I received an e-mail from Barbara Boxer announcing that her PAC for Change is supporting Claire McCaskill’s Senate campaign in Missouri. Good choice, but let’s not forget Connecticut. I don’t know if they read replies, but I wrote back and asked her to actively campaign for Ned Lamont (I think she has already endorsed him?) and to help convince Joe that his time has passed and the Democrats of Connecticut have spoken and he needs stop playing into Karl Rove’s hands and drop his independent race.

Senator Boxer will surely be unwelcome in person in many truly competitive states this fall. I certainly hope she makes an effort to spend time in Connecticut, where her active support of Ned could make a difference among real Democrats. Not so sure she should even hand-deliver that check in Missouri, now that I think about it….

Hmmm….is AIPAC the magic word then?

Jenny – I think it speaks volumes about the state of the party that some are ready to place the burden for this much-needed sea change on Ned’s shoulders.

What should be happening is that those who still have some credibility within the party should be reviewing the notes from Ned’s campaign, studying the film, reading the blogs and taking up the charge.

What’s sad is that we have so little confidence in that happening.

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? I’m still thinkin. Haven’t come up with anything yet. OHHHHHH, yeah, TEAM LOSER’s phony reasons for why we are Iraq.

Took me awhile.

Ironically, not financially supporting Lamont by the DSCC means that Lamont can keep the same people that got him here to this point. The DSCC “recommends” certain consultants that have to be hired in order to get their money, and we know what their track record is on wins and messaging.

If the netroots could raise 59 million for Dean, we can certainly raise money for Lamont, money that would be uncompromised by any strings other than the desire that it be spent well and effectively.

Jim @ 151

Anne@146

I agree. Lamont should be starting his speeches, or at least half of them, with domestic (ie CT) issues–and as a corollary, non-CT pols should leave, and any who come should stay for a few well-photographed hours only). But Lieberman has put terrorism and national security at the forefront, and attemted to tie Iraq and Al-Qaedism, again; this is dishonest and wrong-headed, and Lamont should exploit it hard.

It’s what some of us have been saying all along. Lieberman abandoned CT voter interests a long time ago. Now he’s just an empty alarmist whiny lobbyist ridden demagogue with visions of 1600 Pennsylvania ave. in his head. Our candidate Ned has his feet down on planet earth here in CT and he listens to us little folk. Enough said. Lieberman better try for that Secretary of Defense position.

did this work?

hoping to fix that damn underline!

beedee @ 12:34 pm (#159) – Scientists have nearly as much to fear from the average Democratic politician as they do from the average Republican. William Proxmire was a Democrat, with a well-earned reputation as a Luddite among scientists. So you’re right, it’s a group Lamont should reach out to. Clear support for stem cell research will help, as will a committment to education, but he also will have to make some assurance that he will support basic research and other non-defense related science.

someone got it already, I see – whoo hoo!

Yep, that was the word: the-lobbying -group-who-must-not-be-named?

AHA!

neorophius @ 141,

Thanks for the heads up. I checked my email and also contributed to McCaskill and replied to Boxer re Lieberman stepping aside. Good idea.

Boxer seems to be in one-way communications mode most of the time. “Here’s what I want you to do” say most of her messages.

Funny, I thought that’s what her constituents say to her . . .

If it were up to Lieberman and Bush, we’d be finding volcanoes to ritualistically toss and infant and a virign into every few months – because there is evil out there and we have to make sacrifices.

idiots

How does Abu Ghraib, GITMO, flattened Fallujah etc – how do those things prevent more terrorists? Look at some of the more recent attack – “home grown” terrorists. Raised in the “freedom” that Bush recites will stifle terrorism. No disconnect button going off? The British arrests were — BRITISH ARRESTS. Brits. The reason these extremists hate us is for what we do and how we handle the ME, not for our “freedoms.”

And tossing another child into the volcano of Iraq is just stupid assinine idiocy.

Anne @ 146

Let’s remember that Ned is running for the Senate, not president. That his is the loudest voice right now is bringing a lot of attention to this race (and doesn’t say much that is good about the Democratic leadership), but I think it is a mistake – and jeopardizes his chances to win in November – to push him so far out onto the national stage that CT voters – the ones that crossed their fingers and voted to give the guy a chance – will wonder if this will be another politician who will forget all about them in the glare of the national spotlight.

Not saying he should stop saying all the right things he has been saying for weeks, and not suggesting that he should shoo off the national media (as if he could)- just saying that while the message is important, focus is everything.

Please don’t kick me too hard for saying that.

Anne, this is exactly what I thought when Tweety kept pestering NED after his victory, “If you were President….,” “if you had been President after 9/11….” “What would you do if you were President about Israel….”

NED needs a quickly dismissive line, “I’m running for Senate in Connecticut, Tweety, not President.” (heehee, it would be fun if NED called him Tweety, too!)

Carol 172:

Ironically, not financially supporting Lamont by the DSCC means that Lamont can keep the same people that got him here to this point. The DSCC “recommends” certain consultants that have to be hired in order to get their money, and we know what their track record is on wins and messaging.

A MOST EXCELLENT POINT.

Jane said:

as right wing ghouls like Dan Senor are dispatched to take the place of Lieberman’s lame Democratic consultants and commence the swiftboating of Lamont and those who could capitalize on his victory.

Dan Senor aka Mr. Campbell Brown–more of that “librul” media. Pah!

J-Lie is the past. Cheney is the predictable Dick…democracy is great over there but not over here.

Ned is the new FDR. We are strong on defense because we demand competence and accountability and oversight from our government. Hope is alive and will overcome the fear tactics and bullsheiss spin now matter how fast and thick it flies. The stones we’ve moved have already cracked the mountain….

Brava! Jane and Christy and TRex and savvy commenters like Anne. We shall overcome. And someday is now.

Sorry if this is too much of a repeat, but whenever I hear right-wingers spewing out that “moving to the left” nonsense in the context of the GWOT, I just throw this at them:

This is a time for choosing.

I made a speech by that title in 1964. I said, ‘We’ve been told increasingly that we must choose between left or right.’ But we’re still using those terms — left or right. And I’ll repeat what I said then in ‘64. ‘There is no left or right. There’s only an up or down.’ Up to the ultimate in individual freedom, man’s age old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with an orderly society — or down to the totalitarianism of the ant heap. And those today who, however good their intentions, tell us that we should trade freedom for security are on that downward path. — Ronald Reagan, March 20, 1981

ralphbon @ 12:38 pm (#168) – My point wasn’t that it’s not guaranteed. It was that betting on Joe remaining a Democrat is like betting that the lead pin will fall to the left when the bowler is a drunk, blind, and has an inner ear infection.

McGee, I put that lobbying group as an autotrigger, not to keep it from ever being discussed for insuring that neo-nazi whackos dont try to post here using that word. I does happen here…I am no friend of Israel Uber Alles but stupid prejudices dont belong here…

John Casper @ 131

“We have been in Iraq something like 3 years and 4 1/2 months. World War II for us lasted 3 years 9 months.”

Thanks as always Hugh, this is one of the badly needed talking points that Dems can capitolize on.
WWII had maps. Americans could see the progress that was being made even while lives were being lost. There are no military objectives in Iraq. It’s an occupation. Even US soldier who dies, dies in vain. They are not advancing on a beach head, securing a position of strategic relevance or making America safer. They are dying in a cause which actually makes Amereica less safe, but that’s not their fault.

Let’s see… I’ve played this before, but time for an update.

If Bush were president on December 7, 1941, and this were May, 1945, we’d be:

Stuck on Guadalcanal, the Marines there fighting with WWWI rifles

Our new aircraft carriers would leak avgas every time they hit a seaway, leading to numerous explosions

Our new planes would be gasping to catch the German jets and Japanese Zeroes

Our soldiers, pinned down in the Tunisian mountains, would be wondering when the first Sherman tanks would start showing up

Sen. Harry Truman would be censured from the Senate for alleging Prescott Bush’s companies should be investigated

The German submarines in Long Island Sound and off the Statue of Liberty would be on the verge of cutting our army in Europe and N. Africa off

The Manhattan Project, radar and the jet and rocket research, would be suspended by fundamentalists who criticized them because “we don’t need scientists to beat Nazis and Japs, we need courage.”

I could go on. I realize this sort of fantasy doesn’t hold up as a direct metaphor, but……

Mary for now @ 184

If it were up to Lieberman and Bush, we’d be finding volcanoes to ritualistically toss and infant and a virign into every few months – because there is evil out there and we have to make sacrifices.

idiots

How does Abu Ghraib, GITMO, flattened Fallujah etc – how do those things prevent more terrorists? Look at some of the more recent attack – “home grown” terrorists. Raised in the “freedom” that Bush recites will stifle terrorism. No disconnect button going off? The British arrests were — BRITISH ARRESTS. Brits. The reason these extremists hate us is for what we do and how we handle the ME, not for our “freedoms.”

And tossing another child into the volcano of Iraq is just stupid assinine idiocy.

Bravo!

Anne at 12:24

“I think it is a mistake – and jeopardizes his chances to win in November – to push him so far out onto the national stage that CT voters – the ones that crossed their fingers and voted to give the guy a chance – will wonder if this will be another politician who will forget all about them in the glare of the national spotlight.”

Good point.

So here’s my previous post without mention of the offending lobbying group:

IMHO Lieberman will bow out gracefully with the week – the Rethugs and the lobbying interests who back Lieberman do not want this fight – it’ll open up too many wounds – even though Rove, Mehlman, Cheney et al are making nice to Joe right now that’s just their consistent MO of making temporary political hay wherever and whenever they can.

Actually Joe staying in is probably the political fight WE want. It’s one we can win given the growing opposition in the country to what’s been happpening in Washington (not just Iraq). They do not want this fight ’cause it’s one they could lose, and lose BIG TIME (pun fully intended). So hang in there Joe…?

I’ll admit I’m speculating a bit here….anyone else see it this way?

Blank Kludge @ 126

Be interesting to see the results if they asked: Were you surprised to hear Karl Rove called Joe Lieberman, as a personal friend, after the primary loss?

1,237 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Evil Parallel Universe:

Right on brother…take no prisoners!! We hafta get FDLers used ta winning…it seems that after Tuesday’s victory folks around here are lookin under every quote and behind every talkin’ head ta find out that we really lost this thing. Good God!! Lamont won a tremendous victory and no one other than Democrats can undermine it…and so far I haven’t seen anything other than solid support uniting behind the Connecticut results.

The Rovefascist strategy of runnin behind the war and tryin ta demonize 60% of the votin’ population is doomed to failure. Joe Lieberman is a focus for the pathetic failure of Bush fascism and the longer he is allowed to stand naked in the street and howl that he was assaulted by hippie war protesters, the more ridiculous Rove and Bush and the corporatists look.

So, slap ‘em up and keep ‘em on track EPU…it’s great ta know yer on our side.

KEEP THE FAITH, ALL THEY’VE GOT IS THE MONEY AND IT AIN’T WORTH ANYTHING ANYMORE ANYWAY!!!

Great one Dover at 12:45.
I hope all the Dems pick up on that, especially since Tony Snow and DeadEye have started blaming Ronald Reagan for 9/11.

*ilson46201 @ 190

McGee, I put that lobbying group as an autotrigger, not to keep it from ever being discussed for insuring that neo-nazi whackos dont try to post here using that word. I does happen here…I am no friend of Israel Uber Alles but stupid prejudices dont belong here…

I’d also like to point out there are other lobbyist groups that Joey caters to that are even more important to point out because our most vulnerable CT citizens feel the direct terrible effects of say the high price of pharmaceuticals.

What Coz said at 12:47.

Peterr @ 180

Boxer seems to be in one-way communications mode most of the time. “Here’s what I want you to do” say most of her messages.

Funny, I thought that’s what her constituents say to her . . .

The lack of even a perfunctory automated response to emails sent to her site (at info@pacforachange.com) is profoundly disturbing. Even when I write to specific individuals who work for the PAC at that address, and put in the subject line, EMAIL FOR xxx, I get nothing in return.

One-way communications, the way Senator Boxer’s site has designed it, is not helpful to those of us who support her.

beedee #161,

I expect a lot of concerned scientists to be jumping on Lieberman’s indy ticket, realizing that losing Joe means losing one of the loudest, most consistent voices for S&T funding.

That’s a good catch. It sounds like a concern troll and Lieberman supporter. It would have resonance only if Lamont was known to be anti-science, which he isn’t and it glosses over Lieberman’s Rape Joe Gurney issues since emergency contraception is medically and therefore scientifically accepted.

John Casper @ 12:14 pm (#131) – Actually, there are other ways of measuring progress, but as near as we can tell, they’re not looking good. There’s more violence than a year ago, and more then than there was a year before that. The economy seems to be on a downward slide, though I can’t find hard numbers; there’s more unemployment and less electricity – does that sound like economic expansion? And there sure isn’t any measurable progress in creating a stable, enlightened government there. This is certainly why I’ve given up on the idea that we can help, and I think that’s one of the things other people look at as well.

Really OT– is cbl around? I want to make her peach cobbler and just need to know some particulars since I am a very challenged dessert maker.

Bridges Madison @167

Democrats are moving forward, not left.

That should be a talking point response. Democrats are moving forward – Republicans are being left. Left behind as Democrats withdraw support from corrupt politicians and Republicans refuse to do the same; left behind while Democrats bring in new faces who will work for solutions, while Republicans cling to old faces who will continue to profit from wars and occupation in the Middle East, while leaving our shores undefended.

Mary for now, I know piloting the shuttle is the dream. Have you ever thought of running for Congress in 2008? You’ve got the “it” factor.

Teddy, maybe Boxer is as tech-savvy as Joe…seems to me that if one isn’t going to respond in any way to e-mail, the function should not be enabled. Kind of like having a cell phone that you never turn on – it just pisses people off.

Maybe we should forfeit the rest of our rights to the plenary executive followed by tax breaks for the rich.

pooch says

August 10th, 2006 at 12:33 pm*
nytimes reporting that lieberman just said:

I can just hear his whiny voice speaking these words
Make it stop!
Please make it stop!

It is starting to look more and more like the Dems who campaigned for Lieberman are going to only do a half-hearted endorsement of Ned Lamont. This is despicable.

Everyone in Caliornia needs to nag Boxer everyday to do more to get Ned Lamont in as the Dem senator.

In New York, you guys have got to nag Hillary and Chuck EVERY SINGLE DAY. They are not going to do more unless they think they have something to lose by continuing to allow Liberman to run.

Keep writing, keep calling your democratic senators. Lamont needs to be elected and he needs our help.

“If we just pick up like Ned Lamont wants us to do, get out by a date certain, it will be taken as a tremendous victory by the same people who wanted to blow up these planes in this plot hatched in England,” Mr. Lieberman said at a campaign event at lunchtime in Waterbury, Conn. “It will strengthen them and they will strike again.”

I can just hear that whiny voice …

Make it stop!
Please make it stop!

How are Conn. Republicans feeling about their party right now? Any possibility of winning them over to Lamont’s side?

ya’ know, when HoJo starts his fear-mongering, it sounds just like my OldMother nagging me to put on a sweater…

yeesh!

Hey, just noted that Eli Pariser is listed as Colbert’s guest tonight.

Mack at 1:04 p.m.

After Joe loses in November, it looks like he could have a promising career writing Republican talking points.

Or maybe he isn’t writing these ones, just getting them from Rove or Mehlman.

John C, I’d SURE like to see Rayne, lhp and imm in my Congress too, wouldn’t you?

(Unless, of course, any of ‘em would have to step over the body of a good Dem incumbent to get there).

Science funding…should not be issue. Ned knows value of Edu-knowledge-research from being volunteer teacher.
jmho.

John Casper -

It’s nearly impossible to believe you had a tough time here at FDL when you started commenting.

This doesn’t require a response… just found that little tidbit startling.

Prairie Sunshine

Who is Eli Pariser?

whereIstand, do you know why we call him “rape gurnrey Joe?”

My late ketchup – TRex and Rayne, wonderful posts below – but so horribly heartbreaking. Rayne – be good to you.

Even as depressed and down as I was after that read, though, I still have to say – Christy’s Cheney Oompah — it forced a smile from me.

Having watched Bush give his “they hate us for our freedom” spiel – I’m crosseyed. And then I heard some young idiot on MSNBC say that the US must have been involved in breaking the terrorist ring from the beginning (ok – I was playing along at this point, we do have some good, smart people) BECAUSE

BECAUSE

BECAUSE —

people like Mueller and Gonzales, the A List Heavy Hitters, were all around for the press conference.

Bang My Head Slowly.

He said it with the fresh eyed chipper belief of someone expressing belief in the tooth fairy.

HEavean only knows, if there is a good photo op on a foiled plot, Gonzales will ONLY be there if he was the guy handling it from the gitmo git go.

JennyftB, thanks very much. It was a much different place, September 2005?, many fewer commenters and not nearly the quality we have today. I had never been on a blog before, had no clue. A lot of it was very understandable.

I try to be elated about NED’s victory on Tuesday, but with stinkyman still whining everywhere, it’s starting to feel like one of those old-time progressive “moral victories.”

stinkyman is stealing my NED joy! Go away, stinkyman!

Mary for now @ 193

Blank Kludge @ 126

Be interesting to see the results if they asked: Were you surprised to hear Karl Rove called Joe Lieberman, as a personal friend, after the primary loss?

Indeed.

Got me to smile, too.

Pacifica @ 212

How are Conn. Republicans feeling about their party right now? Any possibility of winning them over to Lamont’s side?

Demoralized I think, so there’s a possibility. Not all CT Repubs like Bush.

John Casper -

I’m sure your voice has been a contributing factor in the high-quality of FDL as it is today. You’re very welcome. (Sorry to go OT but that comment sorta made my jaw drop… hee).

mui 225 – I was eavesdropping on a fairly lively conversation involving Repugs… seems they are all pretty wistful for Ronnie Raygun…

Blank Kludge @ 1:07 pm (#215) – It’s the difference between the known and the unknown that matters there. If Lieberman is really a reliable proponent of science, people for whom that’s really important will be very reluctant to change. You never know what the new guy will be, and the drunkard’s walk scenario suggests that he’ll probably be worse. The more Lamont can do to assure those folks that he will support science as well, the better he’ll do with those people.

neurophius @ 219

Prairie Sunshine

Who is Eli Pariser?

Head of moveon.org

See also his piece today on the WaPoo website

stinkyman is stealing my NED joy!

What Teddy SanFran said.

Hugh @ 198

It sounds like a concern troll and Lieberman supporter. It would have resonance only if Lamont was known to be anti-science, which he isn’t and it glosses over Lieberman’s Rape Joe Gurney issues since emergency contraception is medically and therefore scientifically accepted.

Labeling the guy a ‘concern troll’ is dismissive. I only brought attention to it because of the fact that the funding the blogger credits Lieberman with championing isn’t a particularly politically charged issue, and within the scientific community his office’s reputation for supporting them is in quite high esteem.

After reading the post, it immediately jumped out to me as a gap in Lamont’s list of issues on his website. All I think it would take is a bit of reassurance on the part of Lamont that he will continue to be a strong supporter of the few things that Lieberman does well, which in this case seems to be support of non-defense related scientific funding.

Actually I take that back (212). Many of them adamantly hold onto the idea that they are still a “less tax, less spending” party with mulish obstinence. Its quite an exercise in self-delusion particularly with BushCo. And of course our Repubilican gov was a spend on my friends kind of crook too.

John C – all that graciousness you bring and share is a big part of why there are so many “its” (yourself included) here at FDL.

I’d never want a public office – so many private doors opened – I can’t imagine the toughness it takes. I don’t have it – but I really admire people who do.

Lieberman’s web site crashes. Lieberman blames Lamont.

British police uncover plot to blow up airlines. Lieberman blames Lamont.

Weather in Connecticut turns humid and muggy. Lieberman blames Lamont.

Which MSM will pick up the third one?

Joy lives in our hearts. No stinky cheese can take it away.

Rethuglican short meme: voting against the party candidate if you’re a Dem is a purge. If you’re a Rethug, not so much….

They may have the control and the media megaphones, but we have the power of the people and the ultimate marketing tool: word of mouth. Speak out loud and proud, folks. Knock down the bs for the bs it be. Talk amongst your friends and families and you’ll be surprised how many just needed some encouraging to agree.

New Thread — Pach’s memo to DC Dems!

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..extremists

neurophius @ 215

Mack at 1:04 p.m.

After Joe loses in November, it looks like he could have a promising career writing Republican talking points.

Or maybe he isn’t writing these ones, just getting them from Rove or Mehlman.

Erm,
He’s getting them from Rove

OldCoastie @ 227

mui 225 – I was eavesdropping on a fairly lively conversation involving Repugs… seems they are all pretty wistful for Ronnie Raygun…

Oh how they long for the cowboy in a sunset picture of politics.

Why give to DCCC or DSCC when you could give to Feingold’s Progressive Patriots Fund
http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com/ and recommend a candidate?
Just sayin’…

Maybe OT but relevant to the Republican spin machine:

Researching the 2004 election, I found the following NYT quote from William Safire about the 2004 election:

“The isolationist, union-financed Deaniac left will unfairly attribute Kerry’s defeat to his ambivalence on Iraq.”

LOL what a first-class tool. I wonder if he has made any pronouncements from on high about the Lamont victory in Connecticut.

You know, the blogosphere is great, getting the word out when the media is as unreliable as smoke signals, but we need to have a loudspeaker in this fight, and we don’t. Rove barks the orders, and the meek media — and some partisan media — asks, “How high?” We need a voice in the national debate, on every wavelength where they appear. The party needs to do it, for now: put forward our positive story, which is supported by the majority of the American people.

TSF @ 223,

Stinkyman (I-Green Room)

*g*

242

Re: a Democratic war room spokesperson

Bill Clinton, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi could all do it in some cases, but they are busy people. I would say Howard Dean, if not for the scream; I’m not sure he’s fully recovered from the media mugging he received in 2004; I think he still gets mocked sometimes, and he, too, has other responsibilities.

Maybe the DNC needs to hire someone credible whose main job would be to counteract Republican rhetoric on a full time basis, partly in his/her own voice and partly by coordinating statements from people like Reid, Pelosi and Dean. The Republicans frame events on a daily basis; I’m not sure our response is adequate.

Re: Jim H., and my response.

The other side of the coin is that Democrats may in fact be doing a good job of framing events and responding to Republican spin, but that the lapdog media just refuses to cover it. Not sure how we can combat that effectively.

Ed*ward Teller @188
I hope you don’t mind if I send that around to a few friends.

the dance is over and the one who brung you has gone home..
you shame yourself..
it’s time to go home and teach in a college while you can…

hippies in the blogosphere huh? I’m not a hippie, just an older American voter who is sick of seeing fat fucks like Rove wearing that flag pin. It’s a disgrace. He’s not an American.

Lieberman’s statements in the NYT article are pathetic. He uses the foiled terrorist attack to try and make Lamont look weak on security, then bemoans the idea that anyone would use the WOT for ‘partisan’ politics. I just don’t see how this is going to fly in Connecticut. I thought Lamont and Swan’s response to this BS was very good. Leiberman looks like the fool he has become.

Good thread, Jane.

That’s the key question, following Ned’s showing the lamo democratic “leadership” how to do it;

Will they find the intellectual courage to do start naming bushCo’s bloody bullshit, for what it is?

The need for ANY kind of bi-partisanship went down the tube when that first Abrams crossed the dry-bed Rubicon on the border of Kuwait.

Goatboy and the neo-cons got down in the back alley and rolled the bones, and now they’re coming up snake-eyes.

Deal with it, assholes.

Makes you feel warm and fuzzy that NARAL has chosen to continue their support for Lieberman in light of his loss.

Ned Lamont!!!

Democratic Senate nominee Ned Lamont responded yesterday to Dick Cheney’s suggestion that his primary upset heartened terrorists, saying the vice president was mixing up the war on terror with the invasion of Iraq.

“I just think that this Bush administration confuses a comprehensive attack on the terrorists with the invasion of Iraq,” Lamont said in a telephone interview yesterday. “I think the invasion of Iraq was a terrible distraction.”

GO NED GO!

http://www.greenwichtime.com/n…..-headlines

When is the democratic “leaders” in elected offices going to stand up and fightthe lies and spin of the right? This is sickening that not one of them is coming out strong and telling the righties that it is not the fringe that elected Lamont, but the mainstream??? BY mainstream, I mean the entire population of the US.

The spinelessness of the elected ones is pathetic.

What was Lieberman’s role in the 2000 elections?

http://www.margieburns.com/blo…..22583.html