I guess my draft would be a little different. It would be a draft of national service with many options involving infrastructure, conservation and environment, poverty and yes, military service.

How great would it be to have a real domestic relief force in place to respond quickly and efficiently to natural disasters.

To have additional bodies to help control our porous borders and protect the scurity of our ports.

To help get a lot of poor kids with no future, and not a lot of hope, off the street and learning a trade.

And yes, it would include women and would probably be very controversial because the Dick Cheney’s of the world wouldn’t have an excuse to get five deferments.

Folks I really disagree with Navy Wife but she has a tough road with a husband overseas and kids at home. I’d much rather engage her in an honest dialog relating to what those of us who oppose this war, and this administration, believe than to trash her views.

I’d fight for her right to have those views. But then again I’m just another crazy lefty.

He had to go, the draft was in force.

Even though there was a draft, honey, there were also people who signed up.

These Army recruits are Vol-en-teers, they are going because they want to fight the war.

These Army recruits are EIG-HT-EEN. ;-) Actually, they go because they are told to go and they assume someone is trying to make the right decisions, not because they signed on to fight a war of aggression followed by occupation in Iraq.

I’m proud they want to serve their county.

I am too. I’m not proud of a country that propagandizing them so that most of the soldier in Iraq believe they are there because Sadaam Hussein was involved with al-Qaeda (lie) and/or that Sadaam Hussein had something to do with 9/11 (lie). How in the world can you support sending kids who are so brave to die and suffer for a lie? Proud of the kids, not proud of the country, and not proud of those who send them off to die in Bush’s vanity war, that decimates our military capacity, costs 10 mill per hour, and generates thousands of new terrorists.

You know why they are doing it. To save your ass so you can drink your five dollar iced coffee bitching Lieberman is a Bushie

Really? So, even though Iraq didn’t attack us, they are over there in Iraq to safe coffee drinking liberals who don’t want them to be there? THat’s your real, in depth, thought? You whisper in your childrens ear every day – go die in Iraq to make liberals safe to drink coffee and bitch? Isn’t it YOU that they are there for? You. The family. The family who feels they shouldn’t even ASK GWB why he lied?

More soldiers died in Vietnam per month than the total dead so far in the current war.

Are you wanting to sacrifice enough of America’s children to bring the number even? Your statement makes no sense. In any event – have you looked at the dead Iraqis – the deaths on America’s hands – or do they not matter to you? Is your only lesson from Vietnam that you want to run up the number of dead Americans to match the count – you want another wall commemorating pointless deaths in support of a President who lies?

We showed weakness when Clinton pulled the troops out of Somila. Bin-Ladden saw this as an advantage.

Bin Laden – good name to bring up. He isn’t in Iraq. He wasn’t in Iraq. George Bush has sacrificed America’s goodwill, good name, moral values, freedoms, children, and economic stability— and hasn’t caught Bin Laden.

Clinton did nothing when the Cole was bombed showing more weakness.

Clinton should have done more. Limbaugh should have shut his mouth up and let Clinton get on with doing more. GHWB should have done more and should not have incited the IRaqi people to rise up, only to stand by and watch them murdered. Regan should have done more after the Beirut bombings, where he slunk out.

But the “more” that needed to be done had nothing whatsoever to do with invading and bombing Iraq. If you refuse to let yourself see that – you are wandering blind in traffic.

President Bush has shown much strength, not weakness. He has supported the troops 100%.

Invading Iraq for the hidden political goal of regime change, while deceiving the country and while CONTINUING to deceive active service memebers into believin that Hussein had something to do with 9/11 ws deceptive, manipulative and evil. If that is your definition of strong, then he is your guy. He has not supported the troops. He has made every wrong decision for them – dispensing with Geneva Conventions to rob our military of their honor; having them invade a country based on lies; not planning for the insurgency that he was told by the State Dept and by the CIA would happen and instead adopting the lie that everything would be over in 6 weed and we would be liberators; crippling our national guard so they are not available for their home disasters and they watch from Iraq while hurricanes hit and Bush plays air guitar and eats cake and their neighbors die; he fires, demotes and intimidats good solid soldiers who give him the correct information to prepare him to protect our country and soldiers and promotes those who say anything he wants to hear for political purposes; he refuses to address concerns for basic protections – like armored humvees and stretches and restretches deployments; he lied for years to the troops on the ground and the American people by saying that there was no insurgency and it was all being caused by a “handful” of “foreign al-Qaeda” fighters when he had the intelligence reports and knew that was a lie; he allows incompetent people who lose Veterans Administration information on our vets to continue in positions of authority and backs a bill for the banks, credit cards and financial companies that will make those VA victims of identity theft have less recourse and suffer more damage; he is helping to cut benefits and education and healthcare for soldiers and only some of the rare coordinated actions of the Democrats – with a handful of Republicans – have prevented his cuts.

They know evil is out there wanting to kill them and destroy their way of life.

If you are willing to sacrifice your husband and your children’s father – which is very admirable – you should at least take a hard look at why terrorist groups are flourishing. If you truly believe that Bin Laden, or Immans, show up some morning and preach to their young follower, “hey, that America – it’s free, isn’t that awful, doesn’t that make you angry” and that is all it takes to turn them into suicide bombers, you are naive beyond belief.

The real reasons are out there, discussed all the time, and are why a Clinton bombing response to al-Qaeda would have only done a small amount to address the problem (not that he shouldn’t have done more and not that he should have let Rush Limbaugh run, badly, foreign policy)

Take care – learn about the situations where our military is being used – support them by bringing them home. I, for one, am willing to give up my iced coffee to get them home. How about you do the same?

My Father, a 20 year Green Beret with two tours of Nam in ‘63/’66 (and many health & PTSD Agent Orange probs) – came back with the truth:

Our Country goes to WAR for PROFIT! Now my only Nephew is on a boat in the Gulf being exposed to Depleted Uranium – Today’s AGENT ORANGE.

Wake up Navy Wife – you will sooner or later. 65% of original Gulf War Vets have had deformed children and/or have cancer and are dying.

The Repugs are dis-manteling the VA, as the soldiers are dying from their exposure. Moral? HAD ENOUGH?
———–
If we let people see that kind of thing, there would never again be any war: Pentagon official explaining why the U.S. military censored graphic footage from the Gulf War
=

As a liberal and a Democrat I have to believe we don’t have “dregs” in our society (except the ones in Crawford) and if we do have poor people, it’s our job to help lift them up. As someone who has been around for a few years, I’m beginning to think that a draft with some kind of national service is a very good idea.

Anyone can differ.

Please check out this story, written by a vet, who served in Iraq and who has been out of the army for one year…
It speaks to what you just wrote about the draft.

http://ftssoldier.blogspot.com…..redom.html

No thoughtful person disrespects our kids in the military. The real issues here don’t relate to whether or not they’re doing the right thing.

They are doing the right thing. They’re following the orders of their commander & chief which is what a serviceman is paid to do. They deserve our thanks, our love, our prayers and our support.

The real issue is the mission and whether or not they should be doing whatever it is they’re doing in Iraq. Or perhaps serving somewhere else.

We can do a more effective job fighting terror here at home.

To Art Guerrilla

Respectfully, your post was unfair and myopic. Wars are planned by old men fought by kids. Don’t sell them short. They’re not the dregs of society at the bottom of the food chain.

They’re our brothers and sisters and school friends and neighbors.

Many are polically naive and believe in our country right or wrong. For many it’s a chance to maybe learn a trade. The military can provide direction and it can teach discipline. Those are important life lessons.

As a liberal and a Democrat I have to believe we don’t have “dregs” in our society (except the ones in Crawford) and if we do have poor people, it’s our job to help lift them up. As someone who has been around for a few years, I’m beginning to think that a draft with some kind of national service is a very good idea.

Anyone can differ.

no, serving in any army is a LAST RESORT to Defend Your Country against Real Attacks…

there is no ‘privelege’ attached to it at all: they will take anyone and everyone who meets the minimal requirements (and dropping); how the fuck is that a ‘privelege’ ?
get real, jingoist…

realistically, it is also a last resort for those at the bottom of the food chain who can’t find anything but a mcjob (if that)…

signing up to be a PROFESSIONAL KILLER when your country is NOT being attacked, is the typical non-thinking attitude of a violent, ignorant, intolerant, and militaristic -NOT peaceloving- people…

*this* is the most advanced civilization ever ?

*this* kneejerk ‘thinking’ of too many pantsload-patriots who deserve neither safety nor freedom, is the moral highground ?

i don’t think so…

gee, didn’t i read something in the constitution about no standing armies ? ? ?
guess that is so much ‘quaint’ thinking…

…or maybe that was in one of the parts we’ve already shredded, you know, like other quaint concepts of kongresskritters having to declare wars and such

wake up warmongers, the chickens are coming home to roost, and they are mad as hell…

art guerrilla

aka ann archy

eof

If you’re not military savvy, the Big Red One is the oldest and maybe most decorated continuous serving major combat unit in the US Army. It’s a Division with a very proud record.

I was released from the service in January 1965 after 2 years, 10 month & 10 days. That gives me more active service time than every top adviser in the Bush Administration totaled.

I was young, had a new wife and a baby on the way. I was given the option of being released or going to Nam along with comrades with whom I’d spent a couple of pretty good years. It wasn’t an easy decision to wave good-bye to my colleagues. Just like today’s kids I felt a strong obligation to my buddies.

Some of them didn’t come back. A talented young writer/editor, Peter Bushey, was killed leading a Japanese film crew out of a firefight.

Good reason to die, huh? Serving your country? Serving who? Serving what? Another civil war and all of the same lame “stay the course” excuses.

A couple of days ago, here in Connecticut, I was proud to cast a vote for Ned Lamont and against another chickenhawk, Joe Lieberman.

Somehow that makes me a left wing whacko.

My heart goes out to every mom or wife or brother who hasn’t come home or has come home maimed.

That makes me some kind of bleeding heart coward. How dare anyone who hasn’t served question my patriotism and my vote.

The road goes on forever….

They still post there today, now that they are civilians and it’s moving, thoughtful stuff.

One of the writers on the site, Heckle, now works for IVAW and VVAW and has started a group called Vets4Vets… it’s a support group.

Please have your stepson get in contact with my friends. They’re really there to help your stepson and YOU.