From Ned Lamont:
Stephanopolous: Joe Lieberman says that you are a political chameleon and that you are taking a progressive position because that is where the opportunity is.
Lamont: I don’t think that you are a left or right to say that this war was ill-conceived from the start…
From Joe Lieberman:
Stephanopolous: People complain that you have lost touch with the people of Connecticut.
Lieberman: …well, I keep coming back.
PoliticsTV has the interview up here (Quicktime only at the moment, with Windows coming shortly.) And I’m keeping an eye on Crooks and Liars for a video posting as well (will update if and when one gets posted). I know the show was preempted for *ilson and some of the rest of the FDL crew missed it, so I wanted to give everyone a chance to see both interviews if they want.
Frankly, I think Ned Lamont did quite well. He’s clearly gotten more comfortable in his television skin (which is very difficult, take it from someone who is still working on that!), but his comfort with himself and who he is really shines through in the whole interview. And that is very effective. Joe Lieberman looks worn out – it’s been a tough campaign for everyone, but it has to have been especially difficult on Lieberman who, I think, just expected to coast to another six years and instead found himself having to fight for every inch.
It’s going to be a close race to the finish. If you can get to CT at all, please do so. GOTV on both sides is critical. I just wish I could be there with everyone to help — but I’ll be doing phone calls from home instead today. (Darn arthritis…but I can’t tell you how much it means that there are so many FDL’ers pitching in this weekend.)
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NED!
L A M O N T !!!
Damn, Jim Dean should of prepared better for this MTP interview. He’s not doing bad, I just keep yelling at the TV screen on what he should have said!
Ah, Sunday mornings spent yelling at the TV…..
The Moveon Phonebank site–make a commitment for an hour and use up some of those free weekend minutes…
My fave so far on This Week:
Lieberloser “There’s two polls/poles so far in Iraq…blahblahblah….there’s two trends in Iraq.”
Polls on the mind much? (If he meant two poles the blahblahblah didn’t sort it out!).
Of course, what really irks me about that statements is “[There is] two…..”
If he can’t get a subject and verb to agree ….ARGH (sorry, being a college prof I have some pet peeves)
Thank You Professor Foland !!!(prev. thread)
MoveOn’s Connedicut Phone Bank link:
http://political.moveon.org/ph…..er/ct.html
going to Crawford today – can make calls on the drive – an insurgency twofer!
It’s not Dean’s fault. He is not a spokesman FOR THE CAMPAIGN. He is a spkesman for DFA. Timmeh is not asking him the right questions.
If I were to fault Dean, it is for taking swings at pitches not in the strike zone.
He should preface his answers with a reminder of just who he is and what hat he is wearing, cause Timmeh had no right to drill down to seemingling conflicting statement coming out of the campaign “in just 24 hours”
Dean doesn’t speak for the campaign and is not authorized to take a position for the campaign. dean represents a large group which has endorsed Lamont.
Timmeh would not ask NARAL to speak for leiberman. he should not ask Dean to speak for LAmont.
Dean speaks for DFA
Ned is awesome on This Week right now!!!! So much more articulate that that bumbling dunderhead Joe.
Ned Lamont did better than ever! He was really impressive.
By the way, you have mispelled the name of Stephanopoulos in the title of the post :)
There were at least 20 Lieberman signs on either side of the Bridgeport Home Depot entrance. I took two Lamont signs, penned “LEADER” on them and put them in the front.
Two thumbs up from customers, and one “I hope Lamont wins.”
Not one word about the Alito vote! Who chose Dean as Davis’ opponent? He made Lamont’s position on Iraq look like it changes daily.
“I don’t know how he would vote…”
Aaaarggggh!
Citizen Jane,
Lieberloser “There’s two polls/poles so far in Iraq…blahblahblah….there’s two trends in Iraq.”
Polls on the mind much? (If he meant two poles the blahblahblah didn’t sort it out!).
Of course, what really irks me about that statements is “[There is] two…..”
If he can’t get a subject and verb to agree ….ARGH (sorry, being a college prof I have some pet peeves)
Since Dubya talks like that, Lieberdick thinks its cool. There is a lot of pols doing it lately – its cool to be uneducated. Eggheads= bad, Dumbasses=good. Drives me nuts, too. Lieberdick knows better grammar – it’s rubespeak.
Dang, I knew there was a reason I didn’t want to go to the store this morning. Can’t wait to see the interview. Sounds like Neds confidence is coming along just fine.
i said this earlier this weekend, and i think it bears repeating now:
i think that all the poster luxuriating in triumphalism, while understandable, is premature. stow it til weds.
or don’t you remember what it felt like in nov. 2004, with all the surveys tracking for kerry, including the exit polls, right up until ohio went red?
you want to feel as let down as the day after election day 2004? didn’t think so. if not, do the work. GOTV.
atrios is right. to not win now is a real-world defeat. we’re all tired of moral victories.
“from someone who is still working at it”..your hard work paid off..you have made amazing progress
Testing, one, two…
Is this thing on? I understand that some people are having trouble posting comments.
Hmmmmm.
Starting around noon on Tuesday, Mr Kirby and I will be with CT Bob for the rest of the day — Bob catching fabulous visuals, and I’ll be live blogging on CT Bob all afternoon and evening so he has the time to work on his still and video of the day. Come by and join us!
dmg at 14 — Neither Jane nor I has ever said that Ned Lamont has this race sewn up, nor have we even hinted at it. The polls are not necessarily reliable and no one — NO ONE — has any idea who will head out to vote, because there is no statistical model to follow in analysis on this race. I’m not certain what you are talking about with your triumphalism reference, but you sure as hell didn’t get that from either Jane or myself.
Yes, the polls look nice and shiny, but we’ve been emphasizing GOTV efforts for quite some time because you can’t win if you don’t get people out to vote. So, you’ll pardon me if I don’t have a clue what you are talking about with your “triumphalism” crankiness this morning…
dmg @ 14
Humor me. Find the pre-Tuesday Ned victory prediction lap in my post from last night.
Hey everyone, darkblack is IN THE HOUSE, popped into EPU-land in the last thread with a dayyum fantastic meta-graphic ….
Meanwhile on Fux News, Newt Gingrich has this to say about the Lamont-Lieberman contest:
“[Y]ou have what I think is a legitimate insurgency in Connecticut, which needs to be met head on and debated head on, which is people who say this is so hard, it is so frightening, it’s so painful, can’t we come home and hide? And I think if Lamont wins next Tuesday, it will be the beginning of extraordinarily important period in American politics, and in American history. For all of us to have this debate. How dangerous are the terrorists? How dangerous are the dictatorships? And what does America have to do in that kind of a dangerous world?”
Source: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/08/06/newt-ct/
I think we can all agree that it’s down to the ground war now. I’m, as they say, cautiously optimistic, with good reason. No victory lap here.
Frankly, Ned needs all the help he can get, from this very minute through the next 40 hours or so. Thank goodness for all the people who’ve come out and pitched in.
looseheadprop @ 7
Well said! Li’l Russ gets thrown off his game when guests stand up to him. Like all incumbents who have outlived their man-date, he’s surviving on his own sense of entitlement and other Beltwayites’ habitual deference.
In all fairness I believe dmg was referring to the comment posters not necessarily Christy, Pach, Jane, et al.
Oh, and good morning rabid lambs and firepups!
dmg – 14
Happy minds are busy minds – join me and many others across America and get thyself to the Connecticul MoveOn phone linky upthread at comment six.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 24
Fair enough.
christy, sorry if i wasn’t clear. i’ll explain:
the posters of comments, particularly earlier this weekend following jane’s blog entry entitled “Reason,” were reveling in what the polls were suggesting and at what the lieberman squads were saying in response to thos polls, i.e., that lieberman was going to shut down his on-the-ground operations, etc.
i put nothing past these folks, and i don’t think anyone else who wants to see them ousted should either.
now, if i got the terminology wrong and in using the term posters seemed to single out you and jane and other designated fdl bloggers as opposed to those who comment on your essays, then i absolutely apologize. but if you scroll through some of the comments, i thik you’ll have to agree there’s been a tad too much dancing before the heavy lifting is done.
i’ll also cut you slack on what i might ordinarily take as an unnecessarily sharp tone to my comment — you and jane et al. have been doing the work of our better angels throughout this campaign. so if this morning you need to get a bit snappy, i’m a big boy. i can deal.
Every person on Mclaughlin has Lamont winning the primary and everyone except John M and Zuckerman has Lamont winning the general even if Leiberman runs as an independant.
Even Tonly Blankly said leiberman is going downand going donw hard.
Wow
Here’s a link for everyone this morning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNBi2LTZv7c
looseheadprop – 28
WOW INDEED! Thanks for watching so I don’t have to ruin my breakfast at the sight of Mclaughlin and his talking heads!
Lanny Davis says we’re evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oooooooooooh, vewy scawy.
#32
Okay. That’s over the line, dude.
Curious Jim @
21
Tell me again, what is it you are supposed to do with eye-of-newt?
looseheadprop @ 28
That’s really good news. Though, The McGlocklin Group is certifiably insane (Ol’ John M, top nut), they do have their audience. They can be amusing. Lieberdick’s gotta be one nervous Turncoat.
dmg @ 27
I sure as hell hope no one is naive enough to believe that crap about Joe shutting down his GOTV operation. He is sitting on a mountain of cash. He has hired all these $80 a day folks–what in hell do you think they are for if not GOTV?
This is all about the “pull”. Getting Lamont voters to the polls. In Town the Village of Hempstead, the former Republican mayor used to have a campign bus, all tricked out with banners and stuff that circled the neighborhoods calling out with a loudspeaker that the voters could get a lift to the polls. Sometimes there was a band on the bus playing dixieland.
It made the trip to the polls seems like a mobile block party. I always thought that was clever. The voters loved it.
fini fini toobz @ 24, many thanks.
anne holiday @ 25, let’s just say i absolutely would if i could.
immanentize @ 32, i thought so too. abby hoffman said it best — a revolution is no excuse for bad manners.
hackworth @ 35
The thing is, if even this right of Attilia the Hun bunch think Leiberman is done. His career is not just a little dead, it’s really really dead.
They are not even trying to keep up appearnces for his sake.
In Town the Village of Hempstead, the former Republican mayor used to have a campign bus, all tricked out with banners and stuff that circled the neighborhoods calling out with a loudspeaker that the voters could get a lift to the polls. Sometimes there was a band on the bus playing dixieland.
It made the trip to the polls seems like a mobile block party. I always thought that was clever. The voters loved it.
This seems like it would be perfect for Lamont.
Hey, how many people does the Kiss Float seat?
Timmeh at end (emphatically): “Thanks to both of you for a CIVIL debate.”
Bullshit. That was so framed in Jumpin’ Joe’s favor it was disgusting. The typical insidious slant that is in most of the corporate media. Jim Dean was such a pansy….”Let me say first, I really appreciated when Joe met with us…blah blah blah…” He said that same sentiment at least three times.
Jeebus, thank god for places such as FDL and others. In the past I’d watch something like that and think, “Is all hope lost?” Now, I know it’s not! Let’s do this.
Without everyone freaking out and I cannot believe I am about to type this myself, but [deep breath] I agree with Newt Gingrich…this debate needs to happen. He’s right about that, the War Party has dominated the conversation for too long.
The terrorists are not the threat they have been made out to be. They have been 90% convenient excuse for authoritarian policies and 10% danger to our future existence. The 9/11 attacks as horrific as they were, are in the longer view a rare event which happened due to long planning, persistence and circumstances that swirled together to make that happen.
We still don’t know the full story of 9/11 IMHO, maybe we never will, but the event itself was anomolous and the fact we haven’t been attacked since is not due to anything our lumbering bureaucracy has prevented but because we are talking about people living in caves who got lucky with one attack.
I sure as hell hope no one is naive enough to believe that crap about Joe shutting down his GOTV operation. He is sitting on a mountain of cash. He has hired all these $80 a day folks–what in hell do you think they are for if not GOTV?
Still seeing that bullshit here and there in the Tubes. Arianna’s webmasters (is that the term?) in particular need to pay a bit closer attention to the news. They also had Ann Kornblat’s dishonest spin on Hillary’s speech up for a couple of day, IIRC.
Morning…slept in. Nice to see you all. Good post Christy, you are an excellent cheerleader.
Blast from the past! I just came across this 1966 clip of war opponent Robert Scheer in an interview after he almost upset an incumbent (8 term) Johnson Democrat. He received 45% of the vote.
Can’t remember the last time I watched “This Week” — ye gods, how they’ve all aged — but did you just see/hear what it the way I did?
Should you have the chance to replay the very end of GS’s Joe interview, look and listen very closely. I’m thinking that Joe tacitly admitted that he WON’T be going on if he loses Tuesday. Check it out. Maybe I’m just hearing what I want to hear. Maybe not.
The terrorists are not the threat they have been made out to be. They have been 90% convenient excuse for authoritarian policies and 10% danger to our future existence.
I think they’re more like a .01% danger to our future existence, except insofar as they enable the authoritarian policies which are the real danger to our future existence.
dmg at 27 — sorry if that came across as snappish. I’m feeling rather crappy this morning, and peeved that I’m not going to make it to CT for the primary as a result. SIGH But at least I’ll get to hang out with my bowl of popcorn with everyone else here on the blog. ;-)
Sofistic @34:
This is from Macbeth (IV, i, 14-15), but could as easily have been lifted from the PNAC or a Rove internal memo:
“Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder’s fork, and blind-worm’s sting,
Lizard’s leg, and howlet’s wing,–
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.”
hackworth, aren’t you in FLA? If so, any possibility you could join us in the FDLofFLA jollifying that we’d like to convene somewhere mid-state soon-ish?
bonkers,
Jim Dean got set up. Somehow, I don’t think Timmeh will et away with a stunt like that twice with the Mamma Dean’s boys.
Jim will be a player for some years to come and I suspect Timmeh will pay for that unsportsmanlike conduct somewhere down the road.
Eli @ 46
The point of terrorism, especially the spectacle of something like 9/11, is to inspire an overreaction among the public and government, to make people in Fargo and Las Cruces believe they’re every bit as much in danger as people in NYC or DC. Bin Laden wanted to provoke Bush (more precisely, the US gov’t) into a ‘clash of civilisations’, I doubt OBL ever dreamed he’d have an ally like Karl Rove, who was so willing to demagogue the threat to exacerbate the predictable result OBL was going for.
hackworth @9:06
Heh, I watch the McLaughlin Group religiously. I love it. It’s like a cross between a political discussion and a bar room brawl :) Zuckerman will never admit error or defeat for his side on any issue. Him saying Lieberman will win is meaningless. He also wouldn’t just come out and say that slaughtering innocent civilians in Lebanon was bad…he’s waaaay out in “Israel can do no wrong land.”
I used to watch the Sunday talking heads too, but had to give it up a few years ago when they became Sunday GOP Talkingpoints agreeathons. I might start tuning them back in if they come back to the reality-based plane.
chirsty @ 46
no prob. no harm no foul. i’m sorry that i raised hackles. and i’m very sorry to hear you’re running a quart low.
all best wishes.
I do wish Tim Swan or somebody actually IN the Lamont HQ coulda taken Jim Dean’s assignment this morning.
lotus at 44 — I caught that as well, but couldn’t get a bead on whether he intended that or was being deliberately coy to make that seem correct for any wavering primary voters who might have been watching the show.
You know, Fini, you are right; Newt is right, but not about the way he characterizes Ned supporters. There is an “insurgency” (not the way most of us would characterize it, I believe). He may sense the social forces driving this, but I do believe he doesn’t see the depth and breadth of those forces. Nor,I believe, does he understand the “flavor” (for lack of a better word) of the culture driving it.
fini @41
can I get an Amen?!?
S’ok CHS, I just made a huge batch of Gazpacho with parmesan crisps (h/t Barefoot Contessa) plenty to go around for everyone.
It’s clear Ned is becoming more and more comfortable with his value proposition. He makes a huge contrast to worn out Joe. Joe will have lots of time to rest up after he pulls Ned’s foot out of his ass.
looseheadprop @ 38
I SMELL A RAT!
IMHO – they are playing the ‘low expectations game.’
tuesday is gonna be close and the gravytrain / beltway bastids would love to make a lazarus of RGJoe . . . (wow a biblical reference).
FWIW — i also question the rosy polls w/ NED ahead… can’t help think they also are meant to manage and moderate expectations . . .
Lovely lotus – yes indeedy – that was my take too but am so cynical thought it might be more of HoJo’s doublespeak.
Sort of, kind of explains why his old democratic friends from Georgia were reportedly making the trek to CT for Joe – to join his comforting team not his campaign?
Please take down my 32. I apologize — but let me say that not everything that involves race is racist — nor is anything that involves gender stereotyping sexist. Indeed, recognition of race or gender privelege and the attitudes of entitlement each produce in actions and language is, in some ways, the opposite of racism or sexis, — even when using race or gender to make the point. But that is a subtlety simply not worth discussing right now.
The point of terrorism, especially the spectacle of something like 9/11, is to inspire an overreaction among the public and government, to make people in Fargo and Las Cruces believe they’re every bit as much in danger as people in NYC or DC. Bin Laden wanted to provoke Bush (more precisely, the US gov’t) into a ‘clash of civilisations’, I doubt OBL ever dreamed he’d have an ally like Karl Rove, who was so willing to demagogue the threat to exacerbate the predictable result OBL was going for.
Yes. And from that perspective they are a *huge* threat. If we countered them rationally, they would be very little danger to us, unless they got nukes, which might make rationality impossible (although even a nuclear attack would not in and of itself destroy America).
G’Morning everyone.
I’m hoping that in the back of the collective FDL mind a serious blog essay is being developed. The Sunday bobble heads have a point – that this election goes far beyond Connecticut. The implications of a Lamont are profound and unprecedented.
What does it really mean? Boy do I have my thoughts. But it’s too early. For now – phone bank time.
Good Morning Hope
Mostly a lurker but enjoy what you have to say.
Sleepin’ in is always a treat.
Jim @ 51
Very well put, I have never agreed with the whole Clash of Civilizations schtick the Four Horsemen of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Blair have pushed. It played right into OBL’s hands.
angrycyclone @ 57
AMEN! HALLELUJAH!
Very well put, I have never agreed with the whole Clash of Civilizations schtick the Four Horsemen of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Blair have pushed. It played right into OBL’s hands.
They are engaged in the War On Not Enough Terror.
Oh my. Atrios has just linked to a thing of beauty.
‘Night y’all
Have a good SUNday, stay cool, get the good work done, fight the good fight …
goodstein’s pie hole @ 59
You know, You may have a point.
Low expectations. Worked for Shrub. Rove does that very effectively.
sofistic @ 56
Actually I WOULD characterize it as an insurgency, a political insurgency. In America, we hold our revolutions at the ballot box like the Founding Fathers wanted. Our movement has all the hallmarks of an insurgency, gathering steam with popular people support, no established power brokers are involved and the goals are to take back our government. VIVA LA REVOLUCION!
Eli @ 68
A man who worked so closely with the PMRC does not rap. Closest he will ever get to rap is this: http://www.jibjab.com/JokeBox/…..movieid=71
looseheadprop #49:
I really hope you are correct about the Dean boyz. Maybe Jim just needs some more seasoning? I remember not being too thrilled about Howard the first few times I saw him on these shows, but now I think he kicks much ass! Just imagining some FDLers on there against ‘ol Lanny (didn’t you just get teary-eyed over his wonderful story about ‘68? GAG.) You know, Trex, Jane, or Pach against Lanny and his talking points, which really weren’t points…more like dull knobs. Hey, I like that…”talking dull knobs.”
looseheadprop #70
thanks LHP!!
now:
WHAT KIND OF A looseheadprop ARE YOU???
A CLINTON looseheadprop OR A SHARPTON looseheadprop??
A CLINTON looseheadprop OR A SHARPTON looseheadprop??
A CLINTON looseheadprop OR A SHARPTON looseheadprop??
I agree that the Lamont’s campaign is bigger than Connecticut. That said, I think Tester’s and Webb’s primary wins can’t be ignored either. All part of the same trend.
OK, Pach, you won’t take my 32 down as I requested, please explain how it is “racist.” Big, mean word to throw around so let’s see some back up to that critique.
Connecticut Democrats lose faith in Lieberman
MERIDEN, Connecticut (Reuters) – Jocelyne Hudson-Brown says she no longer trusts Sen. Joseph Lieberman. John Reardon calls it a loss of confidence. Bob Walsh says Lieberman turned his back on his party.
For all three Connecticut Democrats, all one-time Lieberman supporters, the former vice presidential nominee’s staunch advocacy of the Iraq war was the final straw that convinced them to back Lieberman’s anti-war challenger Ned Lamont.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..on/special
WHAT KIND OF A looseheadprop ARE YOU???
A CLINTON looseheadprop OR A SHARPTON looseheadprop??
A CLINTON looseheadprop OR A SHARPTON looseheadprop??
A CLINTON looseheadprop OR A SHARPTON looseheadprop??
Right now, I think we’re all Sister Souljah Democrats, unfortunately.
Christy, when you point out Ned’s comfort with himself and who he is, I think your finger’s on what explains this whole last seven months plus whatever’s to come.
People who end up running for office (really, who’d want to live like that?) almost always have and reveal extreme ego-neediness (think BigDawg, Chimpy, Tony Blair, on and on).
There’s not a stitch of that in Ned. His UNneediness keeps him loose, balanced and open enough improve his public performances so much so fast and to appeal to folks so viscerally. There’s nothing of the rock star about him. Instead, his kind of charisma welcomes rather than awes people.
Mr. Smith meets Abe Lincoln — that’s how Ned comes across to me. Never seen anyone (certainly no politician) like him.
She’s a Che Guevara insurgent looseheadprop…and so are we!
Pissed in NYC @ 75
These elections and others around the country, like John Laesch, Charles Brown, basically anyone Howie Klein highlights on Blue America Saturdays here at the lake are all part of that trend/political insurgency. ‘08 is going to be the watershed year, these are the skirmishes that are setting off the fight for our nation’s soul.
I’m ricocheting around the tubes so much, hoping to find a video of Joe breaking down in tears and saying “I deserve to lose, I deserve it…Hadassah told me she’s voting for Lamont” that I can’t remember where I’ve seen what.
Did you guys see that Lanny Davis compared the Kiss float to Saxby Chambliss (a name that sounds like it was invented for Doris Day’s “bachelor” partner in her interior decorating firm in a Day-Hudson epic/Wolcott, I think) morphing Max Cleland into Saddam.
goodstein’s pie hole @ 73
I’m sorry, I don’t understand the question. I am a fiscally conservative, law and order, socailly progressive, good government, fair elections type looseheadprop
angrycyclone at 64
Thank you and welcome from out of the shadows.
I just sent this little bit to Eli in an email but it feels worth repeating here.
On NPR this AM they interviewed a woman who wrote a book called “Who Are These People?” She traveled around the country examining the phenomenon of ‘fanaticism’ in all it’s many guises. Her premise was ‘these kooks, what drives them…?’ went out the window when one of the people she was interviewing told her personal story.
Basically, the woman a Barbie collector, had lost her 17 year old son to a vicious murder. It was her Barbie friends that stepped up, supported her and got her through the ordeal. Her ‘real’ friends dropped away over a few months.
I think that is analogous to us here at FDL. The examples are countless, from TRex’s trip to Charlie’s financial picture brightening, and of course how absolutly fabulous you guys have been to me during my guy’s absence. This is a special community.
I have felt better and more safe in the couple of months I’ve been here than in any of the friendships I’ve made in two years in Texas. Thank you FDL and welcome again angrycyclone, you’ve come to the right place.
Pissed in NYC @ 75
And if you add in the campaigns of Charlie Brown in CA04 and the house races in MN (Rawley, etc?), it should speak volumes to the rest of the nation.
I think it a grave mistake to downplay or discount the reality of terrorist non-state actors in the world today. There is a “realist” assessment out there as to the threat, as to cause, as to chance they will again be successful. We have good Democrats who speak and write on this — I would particularly call attention to Jessica Stern, Steve Simon, Daniel Benjamin, etc., and encourage people to read and study their materials.
What we need to oppose is the use of this reality to provoke unrealistic fear; The use of it to sustain useless heavy handed military actions that in no way protect from terrorism.
The only current threat to this country is internal. A foreign group could set off a nuke in the US and kill a lot of people but it would not threaten our existence as a country.
The fascists and theocrats, however, are eating the financial and constitutional guts out of the USA and have to be stopped.
I concur.
There’s not a stitch of that in Ned. His UNneediness keeps him loose, balanced and open enough improve his public performances so much so fast and to appeal to folks so viscerally. There’s nothing of the rock star about him. Instead, his kind of charisma welcomes rather than awes people.
Mr. Smith meets Abe Lincoln — that’s how Ned comes across to me. Never seen anyone (certainly no politician) like him.
This is especially interesting to me, because prior to this I believed that the Paul Hackett model of candidate was the only way to go. I still like the Hackett approach, but I wonder how it would have played in CT.
Jim,
That’s pretty funny about Davis, because what he probably wanted to compare was Chambliss’ morphing of Cleland into Saddam with morphing Lieberman into Bush. But that analogy doesn’t help Joe, does it?
Did you guys see that Lanny Davis compared the Kiss float to Saxby Chambliss… morphing Max Cleland into Saddam.
What the.
OT but I would like everyone on the lake to please say a prayer for the people of my city, Indianapolis. We are in the midst of a killing spree this summer that has us on a record pace. 11 people have been murdered in various incidents this week alone and the Mayor and Sherrif have both characterized the situation as being “at war”. http://www.indystar.com/apps/p…../608060466
Fini #70:
I’m very leary of using such loaded terminology such as “insurgency.” It feeds the sterotype of the “unhinged,” “terrorist-loving” liberals. David Broder recently called it an “elitist insurgency. ‘ We need to make sure we’re not shoved back into a cute little box and forgotten about again. Lamont is mega-rich. I have trouble paying for my toothpaste. This progressive movement crosses all class lines. It’s about what’s right.
looseheadprop @ 83
Would you marry me?
I’m very leary of using such loaded terminology such as “insurgency.” It feeds the sterotype of the “unhinged,” “terrorist-loving” liberals….We need to make sure we’re not shoved back into a cute little box and forgotten about again.
In case anyone was wondering just what I meant by “Sister Souljah Democrats”…
Fini’s ‘war’ in my prayers, check.
sara@ 86
I think the key is “non state actors” and I think that’s the part that the Bush foreign policy team just cannot comprehend on the most fundamental level. From Afghanistan to Iraq to Lebanon, we see that the idea of trans-national, non state entities as the “enemy”, or threat, is something that the WWII generation, and those raised in reverence of it, just don’t get.
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 93
Would you marry me?
That’s very flattering, but sadly, I am still married. Trying hard to get unmarried, but haven’t succeded in that effort yet.
FFT — the same has been going on in Boston for nearly a year. The local authorities (mayor and a bunch of legislators) tried to address the problem by stopping the flow of cheap unregulated guns from nearby states like New Hampshire. Needless to say, that plan failed due to amazing monied opposition. Plenty of guns now if you need them. In fact, you can special order and the price is down from about 2,000 per gun two years ago to th ethree hundred dollar range for older ’38’s.
I’ll pray for all cities.
fini at 81
Are you ready my mind? *g*
Jim @ 97
But… if they don’t have a state, how can you have a “war” against them? Best to just stick with what we know and just attack other countries.
Is this a longer way of saying you don’t belong to any political party?
bonkers @ 93
And I can’t even dream of when I could once afford toothpaste so I know what you’re saying. At the same time, if we don’t embrace the level of revolutionary change that needs to occur in our system of corruption that used to be a government, we are in denial ourselves of our expectations from our new leaders like Lamont, Tester, Webb, et al. I WANT them to appear as Reasonable Revolutionaries, emphasis on Reason. Anything short of a Constitutional Revolution will fail to address this nation’s biggest issues.
Without resorting to triumphalism, I think it looks good that not only will Lamont win but Lieberman will be discredited. Christie, I’m also very envious of all the people who were able to make it to New Haven. And I’m racking (wracking?) my brain, trying to rememember, when I was at Yale in 1980, why everyone running around campaigning for John Anderson was so excited.
Mary @ 101
Nope. I’m a life long Dem. In fact, I was a county committeewoman before I got out of college.
Right off the bat, the lede in Dan Balz’s column on the CT primary spins the simple narrative: “The passion and energy fueling the antiwar challenge to Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman in Connecticut’s Senate primary signal a power shift inside the Democratic Party that could reshape the politics of national security and dramatically alter the battle for the party’s 2008 presidential nomination, according to strategists in both political parties.”
The war is a big part of it, but not all. Lamont becomes a single issue candidate and journalist seem congenitally incapable to saying he is challenging Lieberman on several fronts, the most notable being the war, but hardly the only one. Is that so hard? Its a fact, I thought journalists like facts? Guess not.
Eli @ 90
It’s a particularly bizarre comparison, since The Kiss is a real moment rendered in papier mache, while Max Cleland, to the best of my knowledge, has never been a shape changer.
hope @ 84
Thanks. I know what you mean. Until I discovered this wonderful community called FireDogLake, I thought I was alone in my disgust of this administration. I work with a bunch of hard core Repugs and was afraid to show my dissent because they would typically “get in my face” , the only way they know how to discuss issues. By following Jane’s, Christy’s, Pach’s, et al. lead, they have given me the courage and facts to counter their argument.
I love this place.
It’s a particularly bizarre comparison, since The Kiss is a real moment rendered in papier mache, while Max Cleland, to the best of my knowledge, has never been a shape changer.
I can understand the rough outlines of the comparison, Tying The Opponent To The Boogeyman, but come on. Joe willingly, *eagerly*, tied himself to Bush.
beth meacham @ 106
Well put, beth.
Ah, lotus 9:35 am, that’s the ticket, the zen of this.
This is about the authentic versus the inauthentic. Voters all over this country are fed up with the phone-it-in of professional politicians. We appreciate professionals — but there’s a difference between persons who have acquired real knowledge and skills, and a person who’s acquired the skill of portraying them. It’s why some of us are unhappy with Jim Dean; we still have expectations synched to lifetimes of watching carefully honed portrayals of humans, and not humans in fact.
Ned is real, a velveteen rabbit with all the slubs that come from wear-and-tear; Lieberman is a pasty paste-up (cripes, he has flabby man-boobs which is a sign of no upper body work of any kind!! Doesn’t he even lift his pants up on his own?)
I wish I could vote for someone who actually groks what it takes to make a small business successful; I wish I could vote for someone who understands that wealth has not only privileges but responsibilities.
I hope CT Democratic voters see what I see. In some respects, were I phonebanking CT, I’d have a tough time not asking that question: do you see what I see? Do you see a guy who’s mistaken the Beltway for his constituency? Do you see a guy who’s really invested himself in CT?
I just got ‘inspired’.I’m gonna run over and post at my site. Be back later kids, keep fighting the good fight.
Lotus,
In case you are still here, I was away for a bit and missed your comment at post time. I am in Daytona Beach. I could likely get to a meet-up in Central FL.
HSAT @ 96
Thank you very much, tis appreciated.
LHP @ 98
I’m a very large man, I could sit on him and bounce on his chest till he give up the ghost.
IMM @ 99
I’ll pray for Boston and all cities too. They say this stuff locally is nightclub culture driven. As one who used to work the local nightclubs, I can kind of agree with this. It’s been getting ugly in the clubs here for years and one fo the reasons I quit DJing around here is because of the gangsta culture that has become prevalent everywhere. A nice rock n roll DJ like me was not in demand any longer anyway, I got out just in time a few years ago. Besides, my kidneys couldnt take it any longer anyway – too many drunken evenings.
Mary @ 102
That makes her a small L libertarian, a Jeffersonian/national security/JFK Democrat. Like me!
Sara@85, Steve @86Both good, and not mutually exclusive, points.
lotus @ 182
Only bc you asked me – I think people who view catastrophic chaos as a benefit politically are not good people.
I watched “V for Vendetta” for the first time last night. After it was over there was a documentary on the History Channel about Germany during the time of the Holocaust. Both had far too many similarities to our country today for my peace of mind.
The status quo must go.
Also from Balz: “‘Candidates know they cannot appease [antiwar] activists if they are going to run winning national campaigns,’ said Will Marshall, president of the centrist Progressive Policy Institute. ‘It will intensify the tension inside the Democratic coalition as we head into two critical elections.’”
Recalling 1968, Balz says insiders are worried of a another anti-Vietnam. Good lord, how stupid can you be? Nixon WON in ‘68 saying he would get us out of Vietnam. He lied, of course. The point is, claiming Vietnam was a mess did not hurt his chances, it helped them. And the failure in Vietnam, a huge portion of which is Nixon’s to bear, is what is guiding people’s rejection of the Iraq policy.
This is infantile nonsense. The nation if anti-Iraq, not appeasement of terrorists. That is a Republican lie and journalists and DC insiders are fools to keep acting like it is some kind of political truth. It is not.
Mary,
I find it funnt that many people think being fiscally conservative or law and order is territory that belongs to the republicans.
Last time I checked, historically, Democrats have been better with the national buget than Reps. We got the “tax and spend” moniker during the New Deal when FDR realized that strategic debt could keep the economy going.
As for being law and order, I think the Dems are better there as well. Think of the really serious criminla threats to our constitution : Watergate, Iran Contra, and the Unitary Executive/NSA spying/on and on.–All republican scandals.
The really big Dem scandal of similar proportions was what? Teapot Dome? But did that threaten the Constitution? I don’t think so
Still winding my way back up the thread while reading downward:
Newt Gingrich is damned right, just this once. This IS an insurgency.
The same kind of insurgency that threw the f*cking tea in the motherf*cking Boston Harbor!!
Down with the tyranny of absolute monarchs! Down with the entitlement of incumbency!
The response to any right-wing *sshole who says this is an insurgency:
Why aren’t YOU throwing the tea in the harbor, too??
imm @ 9:44
of course, this didn’t help -
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2005/…..1oct05.htm
monsters all !
Teapot Dome was during Warren G. Harding Administration — the very epitome of Republicanism
hackworth!!! I’m in New Smyrna – we can even CARPOOL to it!
lotuslander@cfl.rr.com
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 102
Hmmm..that is very good point. I’ve been triangulated for too long it’s killing my revolutionary instincts. They have been trying to paint Lamont into the crazy, shrill liberal picture (which any person with some brain activity knows is silly), but doesn’t seem to be working as much anymore. Yes, I like what you’re saying as long we keep the “reasonable” part front and center, and the diverse class, ethnic make-up of the movement. Thanks for the insight…
Susan #115
We watched “V” this weekend also. Wondered what the British thought of the last scene?
It seemed even the good guys were the bad guys.
*ilson46201 @ 120
Yes, but it had to do with the corruption of Boss Tweed, a NYC Dem.
You should see the Tweed courthouse in NY, It is a monument to waste and graft
Eli @ 94
Sorry…don’t understand what you mean.
bonkers @ 125
Actually, I didn’t understand that either. More insight please?
looseheadprop — you know, it was his fiscally responsible-socially progressive values that led me to support Dean. Anybody that could balance a budget for 11 years straight while providing healthcare to all seniors and children was my kind of Democratic candidate.
You’re definitely not alone; it’s Deaniacs like me who managed to usurp the Terry MacAuliffe-kind of Party. We still have our work cut out for us, but we are making progress.
looseheadprop @ 118
Very true, we always have done a lot better with the budget. The idea that we are tax and spend is a bad thing is due to propaganda. What else do you do with taxes other than spend the money on necessary government services? DUH!
Dems have a realistic set of law and order priorities. Dems tend to lock up rapists, murderers, white collar criminals, violent offenders of all kinds. Reps tend to lock up drug users, dealers, distributors, adult business owners, prostitutes and anything that is a morality crime. They lose sight of violent criminals because of their focus on morality criminals.
Ah. I thought I smelled fresh thread!!
Boss Tweed died in 1878 when Harding was 13 years old. True, Tweed was a New York City Democrat and famously corrupt.
The White House is preparing for civil war in Iraq. Well… finally. The chicken hawks are coming into the coop to roost.
Not incidentally, too bad so many people, our soldiers and innocents had to perish to prove the Bush, Rove, Cheney and Rice point. Whatever that “point” was.
Rayne @ 127
I am very active in DFA in NY. I like that it provides an organiztional matrix for olks like us
Sorry…don’t understand what you mean.
That we are the Scary Radical Other that the party establishment must publicly distance itself from to appease the Republicans and not scare the all-important swing voters.
Hope that explains it; gotta run off to softball now…
The two big quotes from Meat the Press that havent been commented on here is that Jim Dean when asked should HoJo drop out of the race should he lose on tuesday, and the best Dean can say is that he wont look past Tuesday? WTF?? I thought this guy was Howard Dean’s brother. After the way Leiberman attacked Dean in the 2004 campaign, you would think he would take every opportunity to stick it to Leiberman. Jimmy Dean the sausage king could have done a better job.
Second quote: When George Stef asks HoJo if he is still going to run as an independent should he lose, Joe wont answer. But when Timmeh asks Lying Lanny Davis if Joe will run if he loses, Lanny says Joe will run as a “Dem” should he lose but he will win with Democrats, Independants and moderate Republicans in November. For those of you who think Joe is going to drop out if he losses by one vote or thousand, wake up. In Joe’s mind it has always been and will always be about him. He aint going nowhere.
This speaks for it self and is why all Americans must unite together to elect “True Progressive Democrats” Now is the time not next year or next month. We must stand together and demand real change. We must be strong, bold and not be afraid to speak up. Say what is on your mind don’t go along with others just because it is the right thing to say politically.
When Americans look back they will see that B$SH was the worst “President” ever elected in our countries history. We can say one thing in defense though and that is we the people did not elect this corrupt, lying, miss leading criminal that we have to call President. He stole the election, which is why he is stealing our future, our children’s future and their children’s future.
This say’s it all http://www.carlsheeler.com/ images/billboard1.jpg
NOW is the time to unite, stand proud, speak up, and vote. Vote for “True Progressive Candidates” support all the candidates any way you can. Money is not the only way to support candidates who will fight for us and take back our country. We can encourage our family, friends and coworkers to make sure they vote in the primaries as well as the general election. We can make phone calls, email, and nock on doors or simply send $20 to help support our candidates who will truly represent the people.
Carl Sheeler is such a candidate from RI http://www.carlsheeler.com He has the vision, passion, integrity, and is not afraid to speak up for the people. Carl will defend our constitution and fight for all Americans.
If you have a candidate like Carl please send me their link so I may add it to my blogging for “True Progressive Candidates”
Rayne @ 127
Terry MacAuliffe.
Almost forgot about that tool. Man, we really have come a long way just since ‘04!
Fini – mine would have to include anti-poverty, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-Govt backed infrastructure, but then it wouldn’t be a bad statement for me either. I’m not even non-interventionist, if there is an achievable goal.
*ilson. You have my email and I would like to hear from you in reference to the “Reason’ thread.
[ I have no interest whatsoever in corresponding with you. I believe I explained my actions previously. ]
I just stopped back in and found I’ve been called to account. Let me explain. The expression used in the post I pulled back to moderation, however innocently meant, is actually a rather racist expression. Whether a commenter means a post to be racist or not is irrelevant to moderation. Pulling such a comment back is not a judgment of any commenter’s character.
I won’t repeat the comment, but if anyone has any questions, they can email me. I’m easy to find.
Misunderstandings and innocent mistakes happen. If it can happen to Jane, it can happen to any of us.
Teapot Dome didn’t involve Boss Tweed — he died in 1878.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_Tweed
The political cartoonist Thomas Nast built his career by ridiculing Boss Tweed –
Let Us Prey is still impressive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Nast
Teapot Dome — a GOP scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teapot_Dome_scandal
I am frequently reminded these days of America’s gilded age. I went back and read wiki’s piece on it, and scrolled down to the section on politics. Please read it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilded_age
Then, look up the “progressive era” that followed it. I’m thinking that the Ned phenomenon is the first highly visible indicator of a transformation similar to, but because of the technology, able to transmit and transform memes at very rapid rate. Welcome to the new culture.
LHP – Plunkett of Tamany Hall was my favorite book I had to read in college.
And yes, new thread. With colorful snowcones!
immanentize @
60
immanentize @
75
The comment had been taken down immediately. This would have been apparent if you had hit the refresh button on your browser, rather than just “refresh comments” at the bottom of the thread. Hope that clears things up.
Eli @ 133
Thought it a bit ironic that the next Che Guevara needs needs to take a break from revolutionizing to play, of all things….softball. Dude, at least play hardball!
(Just kidding BTW….thanks for the clarification…)
The hysterical proposition shouted by the Lieberliar lobbyist/heckler was “Are you a Clinton or Al Sharpton Democrat? Clinton Includes, Sharpton excludes (divides)”.
I am much more impressed lately with Al Sharpton. Sharpton is smart and he tells the truth. I saw him a few months ago on on cspan with the media consortium he assembled. Brian Williams represented the MSM player. There was much discussion on the subject of journalism and right wing bias. Brian and another righty or two defended their positions rather weakly, I thought. Sharpton and the other progressives did a great job. I like Al Sharpton very much.
Lhp – I agree about the types of scandals. Our systems is much more proof against greed, hedonism and poor judgment than it is against those who simply take the powers of the Executive Branch to use against the country and destroy its values from within. Without an active Congress, the power to enforce the law has become, from its Nixon/Iran Contra Roots, to its current tip-the-scale growth, the power to break the law and be the law.
BTW – I have very slow lag time on typing. My laptop is still not able to break through the post blocks and I have to go through connections to other computers (that I don’t really understand and can’t always pull off) to post. So hitting keys and waiting for something to happen is like pouring molasses.
Does anyone but me think that Lieberman’s maybe pulling the ‘ceasing ground operations’ stuff so that he can say when he loses – “well, we weren’t really even trying – but when, in November, we *really* try, watch our smoke”. (IOW – so keep those campaign contributions coming in – ’cause you ain’t seen nothing yet).
Or is that just my own cynicism/paranoia?
looseheadprop — wow, how’d I miss that? A fellow Deaniac!
Yeah, I’ve enjoyed the structure DFA gives us, but more importantly, I’m really enjoying the opportunity that DFA offers us to push the Democratic Party away from neoconservatives’ bait while encouraging better, more progressive candidates. I can offer endorsements to candidates through DFA that the local Dem Party would squelch (they are still too hung up on entitlement and entrenchment, are now blind to qualification and commitment).
Mary — sounds like malware crunching away on your machine, what with the lag time you’ve described…hope your gremlins get exorcised soon!
I saw that video. Should we call this “Nomentum”, or “Lamontum”??
i have to say, i have never heard teapot dome EVER connected in any way to any democrat, except perhaps those democratic senators who rooted it out, and whose investigation led eventually to albert fall, harding’s interior secretary, going to jail, the FIRST cabinet secretary to go to jail for actions taken while in office.
fat chance something like that could happen these days. a fella can dream, though.
m*ry
cleered your cache?
Pachacutec @
142
I’ve also been made aware that, although I had pulled the original comment back to moderation, whlie adding instructions for how to handle such material to our moderating team, it nevertheless remained visible to the original author, though not visible to anyone else in the comment threads. That may have caused further confusion, and I regret the mishap. I did not know the software worked this way.
hackworth @ 145, sharpton can never be for me an honest broker of progressive ideals. i remember too well his roots in con artistry, and his disgraceful involvement in the brawley affair.
i recognize his efforts to recast and even, possibly, reform himself. but i guess it comes down to the whole issue robert penn warren framed so beautifully in “all the king’s men”: can you make good from bad? maybe you can, but there should be some actions that disqualify one from getting a second (or third or fourth) chance.
In 1992, Bill Clinton sandbagged Jesse Jackson by attacking Sister Souljah — it was his first big DLC triangulation event.
“A Sister Souljah moment” is now political shorthand for attacking the radical fringe of your own party, to establish your cred with the moderate middle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Souljah_moment
Re: GF Will
I think people who view catastophic chaos as politically beneficial are not sane people. Evil also fits.
My support is for Ned Lamont. If Lieberman would have done his job correctly he would not need to spend $10m US Dollars on a primary! That $10m is the money needed to help fill the gap that has grown between Lieberman and CT residents.
Couldn’t that money be used for a school? For me that money represents Lieberman’s greed. It is the symbol of America and the failure of our institutions. We must recognize that greed is a psychological illness.
Lieberman is only running for pride, not passion. Ned is green but those are the types of fresh eyes we need to help keep things in check.
When Connecticut votes for Lamont it’s a signal that all of America is voting AGAINST Cokie, Timmeh, Steffi and all the other whores. There are as much the enemy as any republican you can name — if not MORE.
Crooks and Liars has the video of both interviews on “This Week”.
Lieberman:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..and-worse/
Lamont:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..this-week/
Uh, I don’t think he meant the KISS FLOAT. I heard him compare the tv ad that has lieberman’s head morphing into Bush’s to Chambliss. Did he also reference our beloved float? I must have missed that.
beth meacham @
106
Fini FiniTOOBZ! @ 80
I agree. The pundits are focusing on the Lamont run because it involves Holy Joe (and he is a senator), but we have seen grassroot candidates win primaries against the DSCC/DCCC picked candidate–Tester, Webb and McNerney come to mind. I guess the pundits can’t bother with those races. If they had, they might figure out what this race is really about, which is, I believe, the grassroots trying to revive the soul of the democratic party.
That photo of Maxine Waters and Ned Lamont says everything I need to know about Mr. Lamont. This man seems to be so GENUINE.
I can’t remember if it was this thread or the last but I think it was Christy who somthing about “Joe on self-destruct”. When I saw this video that thought crossed my mind too…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p1U-SE33kg
Clearly I am confusing Teapot Dome with something else.
Question: What is the something else. IIRC (and obviously I dont’t) The Tweed Courthouse stuff reached all the way to Washington. What am I thinking of? It had a name.
Crooks & Liars = Video Black Hole
Please don’t post links to Crooks & Liars for video. Any non-YouTube video file is almost never available.
If a video is posted on Crooks & Liars where no one can see it, is it really posted? Yeah, what a effen pisser!
Just don’t bother to try to see a video on Crooks and Liars.
Is it possible John Amato may be running a covert GOP site at C&L? Posting videos negative to the GOP, which can’t be seen, is the same as hiding them. Otherwise Amato is just foolish and should get a decent server or use YouTube. And if he would get a adequate server he should stop the WMP/QT dual idiocy and just post Flash video.
Ned did well. Stephanopolous obviously is fascinated by him and respects him. Funny that Jane’s faux pax was mentioned, not to any ill effect.
Jacqrat @ 160
Bush’s Kiss of Death is apparently a literal metaphor.
Leiberman is going to run as an independent if he loses the primary, and NED LAMONT is the chameleon????????!!!!!!!!!
Now I KNOW Leiberman has become a Republican!
Chameleon Lieberman has accrued some bad karma …