
Remember the diner incident at Ted’s? And the loud guy who kept shouting at Ned Lamont so that he could not speak with people who had shown up to his event to meet him and discuss the issues important to them?
There is an old trick in politics where you send an operative to make an ass of himself, to provoke an equally jackass-y response from your opponent, which you then use to denounce him publicly by taking the provoked response and making your opponent into a caricature of his or her true self.
You saw the media do that to Howard Dean, by taking out all the background noise sound and feeding only the sound from his microphone into the clip of "the scream." (Well, actually, I’ve heard that it was a bunch of GOP operatives who fed that edited tape to several media outlets…but I digress.) And in this instance, you have an imported KStreet pal of Joe Lieberman’s, who planted himself in a diner and tried to get a rise out of Ned Lamont.
Except it didn’t work, because Ned has too much character and too much class to rise to the bait from an idiot with a hot temper. But the KStreet fella? Well, CTBob caught up with him, this time at a Greenwich event for Ned Lamont, and CTBob has the encounter on tape:
The other trick in politics is to know at all times when a camera or a microphone is near enough to you to pick up what you are saying or how you are acting. Ooops. And you never, ever want to yell at someone who buys ink by the barrel…I’m just saying.
Clearly, this has become personal for Mr. Goodstein. Understandably so if he is friends with Joe Lieberman and thinks that his friend is going to lose the primary. But also because, as a lobbyist, his bottom line may be impacted if his good friend Joe Lieberman is out of office.
The DC beltway has become so intertwined with politicians, politicians’ wives who double as campaign staffers or lobbyists or other levels of influence (just look no further than the Wives’ Club from the Abramoff investigation), to political staffers rotating in and out of KStreet, to the lobbying firms who drive campaign donations in exchange for favors, to the Beltway media who see all of this going on but only a few of them bother to give it coverage, perhaps because it has become such a "normal" part of Washington life that they don’t even see it any longer.
It’s time to clean up the mess — one politician at a time. Electing Ned Lamont is an awfully good start.
As Matt Stoller says, Goodstein is speaking with a journalist — not a blogger, not a Lamont supporter, but a news reporter, when his temper flares. What’s up with that?!? They call us bloggers angry? Nah, we’re just disgusted by what passes for politics these days…but maybe folks in the media ought to be asking themselves why a DC lobbyist would spend time in Connecticut yelling at one of their own for asking a simple question, because I bet THAT would make a helluva story for anyone who wanted to do a little digging on it.
Matt Stoller has much more on this incident at MyDD, including a second video.
(And for more Saturday amusement, check out Bob Geiger’s cartoon selections. Classic!)
UPDATE: If you can’t make it to CT, but you are interested in making some calls in support of Ned Lamont, Moveon.org has put together a way for you to do just that! Check this out… (And, thanks to Urban Pirate for the reminder about this link.)
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Excellent post.
A camcorder is a blogger’s best friend. :)
G’morning, ‘pups!
GO NED!
CT Bob is my hero.
Ned!!
Richard Goodstein = Zell Miller Democrat
Oh Fudge! Just EPUed. Anyway, check out my comment #130 on Christy’s great “Pull Up A Chair” thread to see why a lifelong centrist (adult life that is) feels so in tune these days with progressives.
Christy!
and Ned!
(and with this graphic and the one below – breakfast!)
Many blogs are popping, but few words from incumbent’s supporters By Jeffery Kurz
Record-Journal staff
I know the beltway whores are all out of synch, as are the beltway Dem establishment, but this is DEMOCRACY IN ACTION. Pure and simple! Fuck the beltway whores and fuck the Dem establishment. From my youth: Power to the People.
I’m wondering about the press photographer who got a bloody nose at Ted’s, the steamed burger joint where Goodstein started his Rovian antics with Ned. I’d expect the press to continue to investigate this incident, given the injury to one of their own.
Also, wasn’t it FDL commenter timewarp who timely verified the lobbyist credentials of Goodstein during a thread yesterday morning?
Hope all the CT-bound ‘pups will be safe while they accomplish great things and save our Republic! Do good and stay well! Bug spray, sunscreen, H2O, breath mints, and your FDL good manners and poise shall carry you through.
================
Had Enough, Connecticut?
================
Vertical integration of political corruption is being dismantled, just like Standard Oil was.
No matter how many low life tricks Lieberman and his cronies play, they have lost the game. It is written on the wall. They know it too but it is not their character to accept it with decency and grace.
yeah, Christy!
Give that ugly Lieber-tool more exPOSEure!
woot!
Horrible dumb twit ….plus me gaydar’s sayin:
he is one big stanky ol’ faggosaurus GIRLFRIEND!
anyone else dowloading that info?
Pach? *ilson? Sharkbabe? TRex-on-a-plane? TeddySF?
(or am I jumping the gun trying to remember
who else might be queeer heeere — if so
apologies! I like straight boys too!)
Thanks so much Christy. I so hope this story of a registered lobbyist campaigning/bludgeoning for Joezoe gains traction in the CT press.
Are there any laws being broken or ethics violations here? The guy is a registered lobbyist.
More mad props to CTBob for the meltdown video.
Ned Lamont volunteer registration page –
http://nedlamont.com/page/s/finalpushct
Here’s another chuckle, if you didn’t “hear” it.
I found this over at the Huffington Post last nite, and I’ll preface it with a quote from their page:
ROFLMAO!
Joe Lieberman is loyal to his constituents — Beltway Lobbyists, Pundits, and the GOP.
In turn, the Lobbyists, Pundits, and GOoPers are loyal to Joe.
BTY…good luck Ned! I’m routing for you! (And I’ll be kicking some neocon butt in Ohio! I hope!)
it does appear more crime is committed on the beltway with our tax dollars than any where else in the country?
where in the hell is the tea? Boston harbor is still there
I was there at the rally in Greenwich and incidentally also snapped a pic of Goodstein (whom I recognized because of the great work being done at FDL).
More insidious than the presence of an obvious goon like Goodstein, the Lieberman campaign had paid a bunch of African American high school kids to attend the rally with signs painting Ned as a racist. Indeed, they repeatedly made reference to the Lamont campaign’s use of blackface (obviously that’s a dishonest claim, but so it goes).
No matter: the fact is, this is really happening and we’re headed for victory. Gotta keep our eyes on the prize. I’m off to work the phone banks.
if you reload (refresh F5) you’ll discover Kirbys lengthy comment has been cleaned up and now is easily legible …
The incident at Ted’s is typical Rove stuff. And beer hall SS brown-shirt jazz. Germany, circa: mid 1930’s.
ahem @ 19
if we have a lot to learn, well then, please start fucking teaching us, O Wise One!
トロールに与えてはいけない
*ilson46201 @ 24
分かりました、ウイルソンさん。。。
hi medaka!
and candy and flowers strewn about for the return of Sharkbabe! we been missing you….
理解される!
thanks, *ilson!!!
those weird characters were tough sledding — Kirby’s long piece would be even easier to read if there were line breaks between each paragraph. just sayin’ . . .
Is this the new thread for talking about community organizing (potluck politics?)
‘Cause I am delurking to answer the question posed in previous post.
Here in my diverse Oakland CA neighborhood, there is plenty of community organizing but very little around national politics. Two active email lists discuss everything from lost dogs to planning issues, a neighborhood association and a merchants’ group organize activities, and we keep in touch with similar groups in the surrounding neighborhoods.
Our congresswoman is Barbara Lee (”Barbara Lee Speaks for Me” – a fave local bumpersticker – she was the only rep to vote against Patriot Act, she votes against all these stupid wars, we love and trust her to stand up) so progressives focus energies on local issues.
The school district is selling off a big plot downtown to developers, that’s a hot topic. Homicides are up 100% over last year and we’re trying to figure out why and what to do.
So this summer there have been two street festivals in the neighborhood, and a bunch of block parties on National Night Out August 2.
Many of us feel that building ties in the community is the only way to reduce crime and improve quality of life. My zip code is a snapshot of the two Americas – million dollar homes on the east side, ghetto apartments on the west side, ethnicity split almost evenly between black, white and Asian (with a tiny but growing number of Latinos moving in from zip codes to the west of us). The block parties and festivals are designed to get people together.
Potluck political organizing … Oaklanders did this for the mayoral race (between a Latino immigrant, a white woman progressive, and Ron Dellums, African-American elder statesman – Dellums won).
For such organizing to work, the issue needs to matter to people. I’m thrilled to see the effort in Connecticut. Let’s work to translate this for the house and Senate races in November, and the Presidential race in 2008.
By the way, hi Jane, I’m delurking, thanks for your birthday message. Go FDL!
Mornin’firepups! Thanks Matt for the video. This certainly is going to be an interesting 4 days.
mods rock !
TeddySanFran @ 26
yah! she da dayyum tooothy HOPE, eh?
Matt Stoller is fundraising for his excellent adventure blogging in Connecticut –
http://mydd.com/story/2006/8/5/13748/43856
BBC
OH Te-ddy!
I still can’t believe I mistook you for that very cool SF girl-chick (”Teddi”) who was living here in JP like 10 years ago. Which was why I trawled/stalked your comments for a couple weeks here on FDL way back when, LOL …
Kai @ 20
So let me see if I understand this. Lieberman’s campaign pays black kids to stand around with signs implying that Ned is a racist, while the chief LieberGoon is holding a sign dissing Al Sharpton and telling a newspaper reporter that Sharpton is “divisive.” Now that’s what I call using the old tuchis.
Terre @ 16
707! Definitely click on Terre’s link.
Joey Lobbyman is headed for a wipeout!
Let’s rock!
Never had the chance to answer Christy’s question previous thread.
My parents were very civic minded so it was always a given that political issues were discussed at dinner. Then I had a wonderful teacher who made paying attention to politics fun. I followed the watergate hearings closely and have been hooked ever since. Until I discovered FDL, I never really got involved, just voiced my discontent alot *g*. Now because of the firepups example of people powered politics and the idea that my voice does matter, I have volunteered to do what I can for the Harold Ford, Jr campaign to help the democrats take back congress. I can hardly wait.
Welcome Leila A.
I had great fun on this side of the Bay watching our local news stations spinning the careful, cautious counting of mayoral ballots in Oakland. No newscaster wanted to disparage the counters or the process, yet their corporate masters seemed to be leaning on them to make the looooooong process seem antiquated or poorly managed. It was, of course, neither: ballots needed to be counted by hand because there were very few working scanners, the “touch-screens” had been tossed in the garbage, and the decision was made to centralize the scanning part of the count. Also, the vote was very close. Although it quite early had come down to “Dellums or runoff?”
The funniest aspect of the entire “story” was when Dana King, a local newscaster, announced, “Still no decision in the Oakland Mayor’s race…” as her lead-in to the story, but then wrapped it from the anchordesk with “The winner of the election will take office in January 2007.” In other words, what’s the hurry? Count every vote, and be sure every vote counts!
Welcome again!
Left-coasters have a special place at FDL (as do oldcoasters, allcoasters, bi-coasters and nocoasters!)
Teddy! (smooch) I always come back to fdl, because YES I HAVE HAD THE FUCK ENOUGH!
medaka, now stop it you silly boy :)
Btw, the news reports of this Goodstein goon need to point out he is not a mere lobbyist but a medical-industrial-complex lobbyist (cf. Mrs. Leibushman)
ok, off to the hardware store…
yeah, medaka, I get that a lot….
News from the ground.
If quantity is the defining indicator, Joe is kicking our ass in the calling department.
Mom;s house today has already received FIVE robocalls from Joe’s campaign. Zero from Ned’s or Moveon.
If you’re out of town, please register to call for an hour or two. This is going to be really tight, it’s definately NOT a blowout. Every little bit helps.
Here’s the link.
http://political.moveon.org/ph…..kw&t=4
oh, and
notjonathan, would you perhaps be in 京都、伏見?
cheers, 10-4, over and out and g’night
all you great big Fiery Doggey Lakers …
oh my, i must get out my secret decoder ring — what does “off to the hardware store” mean in lesbianese again????
Redd, would it be inappropriate to ask for the above link to be highlighted in as many posts as possible for the next few days???
teddysf
ROFLMAO
Hi Sharkbabe, good to see you (she says, adding her voice to all the others.) You have to start a new band, babe. You already have a couple of song titles and your new band name. The world cannot afford to miss out on Sharkie and the Sugar Tits. IMHO, anyway.
Just saw an ad on TV that Tweety was going to be in CT on Tuesday. How many other MSM people plan to be there for this vote? I know George Steph is already there.
I’m a Colorado Mountain Coaster!!!
Seriously — 90% of Colorado’s population lives in a strip of land 30 miles wide and 200 miles long; the east slope of the Rockies, from Fort Collins to Pueblo. It’s a temperate semi-arid micro climate — more sunshine than Miami or Hawaii, but more snow and cold than Arizona.
Colorado is the Left Coast of the Midwest — a lot of people migrate here from the Great Plains and the points East.
I think you guys are blowing the argument part of this a little out of proportion. Sure the guy is being an asshole, first by interupting, then by refusing to answer the question about Ted’s and finally when he yells at the reporter, but I doubt there is much political traction to be gained from making a raving mountain out of a rude molehill.
In my opinion the real story is the lobbyist for Lieberman angle. I think most Americans are savvy enough to understand what it means when an incumbent senator has lobbyists out on the street campaigning for him.
I think “Lieberman supporter gets loud with a reporter” is much less potent than “Lobbyist for Lieberman disrupts Lamont shindig”. Also, it couldn’t hurt to find some shady deals this goldstien character is connected to. A corrupt lobbyist in the Lieberman camp could do wonder for Lamont. Unfortunately time is short on that one.
…weirdest thing…my fist rose, as though by its own volition, at the end of this clip, and my grinning mouth formed the words “RIGHT ON!”
I must be channeling a hippie or something.
These threads with everybody’s political histories are fascinating.
I’m going to cut and paste them into my Filemaker database so I can refer to them later.
Really interesting thread(s) and I’m honored to be swimming in the same lake with you all.
I agree with D. Mason –
The story is that Lobbyists are so scared of Lieberman losing, they’ve come to Connecticut to try and pull Joe’s bacon out of the fire.
And that, in a Nutmeg Shell, is why Joe is in trouble — his constituents are the Lobbyists in Washington, not the people of Connecticut.
UP at 45 — I’ve updated the post above with the link. Thanks for the reminder!
TeddySanFran @ 41
I bet! I mean, were you she, you would have been the girl that slept with the boys that I SEAU wanted to sleep with …
Well, that was way back before I got myself married to the fabbest boy in the universe, like 14 years ago (yes, I was pretty once!) …
Needing sleep here, me dollies — see you on the night-day flip, nkay?
Let’s beat ‘em all with a stick!
ck 17:
“Some people call you lobbyists… I call you my base!”
D. Mason and -ck- — This is why I had this section of the article in there:
“Clearly, this has become personal for Mr. Goodstein. Understandably so if he is friends with Joe Lieberman and thinks that his friend is going to lose the primary. But also because, as a lobbyist, his bottom line may be impacted if his good friend Joe Lieberman is out of office.
The DC beltway has become so intertwined with politicians, politicians’ wives who double as campaign staffers or lobbyists or other levels of influence (just look no further than the Wives’ Club from the Abramoff investigation), to political staffers rotating in and out of KStreet, to the lobbying firms who drive campaign donations in exchange for favors, to the Beltway media who see all of this going on but only a few of them bother to give it coverage, perhaps because it has become such a “normal” part of Washington life that they don’t even see it any longer.”
Because, you know, there’s some motivation behind the snappish behavior, eh?
Urban Pirate — thanks for the update, but I think this is good news for Lamont. I just put myself in their shoes — if *I* received 5 political calls from one candidate — in one day — with more to come? — I would be mad as hell at that politician. Wouldn’t you?
Sun-tzu: “When your enemy is angry, irritate him…”
That’s all this really is. He knows that WE know who he is, and that irritates the hell out of Dickie.
Hey, did anybody notice the “LOL” I put in the video when Dickie rudely interrupted that nice lady? I made myself chuckle when I did it.
Later today, I can’t say who, but a big Hollywood actor (“Murtaugh”…oops!) will be in town for Ned. Woo-hoo! I gotta get a photo with him!
Reminds me of John Bolton in Miami-Dade in 2000 demaning a stop to the recount. Sometimes the big boys have to work in the trenches.
Christy –
If people are in Connecticut, phone banking from the Lamont lists will be more useful — can you post the Lamont volunteer page link too?
http://nedlamont.com/page/s/finalpushct
A question I would like to ask the panel.
We all know that lobbying is akin to legal bribery.
How could the citizens of this country get a national referendum outlawing lobbying say in the 2008 elections?
The Congress and the Senate are suppose to work for us, so we need to make the rules.
DITTO what ifthethunderdontgetya and Jenny from the Blog commented about you CTBob.
You are the
goddamnedinfantry. Your two videos, that I have seen, (1) Lieberman and Boxer walking and (2) Goodstein meltdown; are absolutelyfuckinginvaluable. Joezoe won’t campaign in public, because he’s afraid of your questions, the video you shoot, and the kissmobile.I like the slogan Lobbyists for Lieberman — kinda like billionaires for Bush.With friends like Goodstein and other lobbyists, who needs the people of connecticut, huh Joe. Jeesh.
An interesting thing about the video of that interview was how he was 100% on the defensive in that interview. He sounded like he was calling in a complaint to the editor.
Hey from Russia. Found new wifi spot. Walked many kilometers on rare sunny day. All babies doing great, no losses during my trip. Boris-13 w sepsis-continues slow improvement. Beats dying all to pieces.
It would be wrong to come back early to help Lamont, wouldn’t it?
Terre’s link is pure 707 –
GO MAHENDRA!!!
Can we borrow your stick, please?
I listened twice. Who was this guy calling a liar?
The AP carries a story today that “Israeli ‘commandos’ renew attack on Tyre”. But the folks fighting the commandos’ invasion of their country are referred to as guerrillas and terrorists. Guess it’s the perception, not the reality that counts. Isn’t this the number one lesson the Bush crowd, (including Senator Lieberman) have been ramming down our throats since 2000?
CT Bob @ 60
Heya CtBob, I may have said this before, but you ROCK!
Thanks Redd.
Way to go CTBOB!!!!
Man, you rock. Big TIme.
I’ll call you later.
J
Christy – Yeah I was glad to see you put some focus on it, you’re deffinately right. I was just saying that someone should be on a rooftop somewhere shouting about this Lobbyist out pounding the pavement for Lieberman. I mean, face it, if you were a high powered, moneyed washington fat cat and you were somehow forced to go out trolling through the prols to keep one of your pocket senators you would probably be an asshole about it too. That, to me, is why the yelling isn’t much of a story. If you know he’s a lobbyist our speaking to voters then you know hes in a foul mood anyway.
CT Bob 60 -
That video was spot on hilarious. Particularly because your captioning and timing were exceptional. And in this case, per the Sun-Tzu quote, irritating and exposing these fools is exactly the right tact. I think this focus on Goodstein will serve to tamper his, er… enthusiasm for being front and center over the weekend.
Great job!
Steve Gilliard has a post on the Greenwich rally, with a long excerpt from Maura –
http://stevegilliard.blogspot……ardly.html
Re: video
What immediately jumped out at me was when Mr. Goldstein interrupted the Lamont supporter & put his hand on her shoulder. That is a huge invading space no-no. I have an instant hackles-rising reaction to stuff like that. Take-over dominating tactics, imo.
I LOVE this new editing function… I’m the master of my domain!
TeddySanFran @
39
you forgot the roller-coasters!
An Analysis of the Lamont-Lieberman Debate
Summary;
Democratic primary Senatorial candidates for Connecticut debated on July 6, 2006. After obtaining a copy of the debate transcript, we spent over 100 hours analyzing the claims made by the candidates. We chose not to analyze comments from the moderators as well as value-statements, rhetorical devices, and facts of an obvious nature by the candidates. Our sources used to substantiate claims included government documents, news articles, white papers by research entities, and the online congressional record. For some substantiation no source was necessary as the argument was illogically constructed. We automatically marked those claims as false. Summary Table of claims checked:
TRUE (Lieberman=23,Lamont=28)
FALSE(Lieberman=7,Lamont=1)
UNSUBSTANTIATED(Lieberman=3,Lamont=1)
MISLEADING(Lieberman=3,Lamont=0)
EXAGGERATION(Lieberman=2,Lamont=1)
Accuracy Score(Lieberman=60.53%,Lamont=90.32%)
http://www.ctprogressives.org/…..lDraft.doc
VERY VERY INTERESTING!!!!!
egregious @ 67
FDL ((heart)) egregious!
The NY Times has picked up on the “Joe’s giving up the ground war” story.
Lieberman Reduces Effort to Get Out Vote
John Casper @ 64
John Casper, I completely grok what you’re saying. It was indeed done with the best of intentions, perhaps hoping for some bonding/acknowledgement in these trying times when being born gay can tempt halfwits and mullets to murder you (at least in the fucking United States).
Plenty of FDLers have come out gracefully in the comments, and these are the folks I was, perhaps too glibly and loosely, referring to. I’ll tone down my act for all concerned, and try to focus exclusively on Ned, poetry and the 18C painted-mordant textiles of the Coromandel Coast of India that I so love …
I find it interesting that Goodstein is trying to draw a distinction between Joe Lieberman as a “Bill Clinton Democrat” and Ned Lamont as an “Al Sharpton Democrat.”
1. If JoMo is courting the black vote, is dissing Al Sharpton helpful in that effort?
2. What contrast is Clinton vs. Sharpton shorthand for? Why wouldn’t the average listener assume it’s merely “my guy is white and yours is black”?
3. Is Goodstein an independent actor on this or promoting a campaign strategy?
CTBob got the goods on ’stein
ironranger @
75
Yes, that gesture repulsed me too. It reminded me of Bush’s unwelcome hands on the shoulders of the German chancellor, a tacit put-down of a woman by a man.
By the way, I also thought that Goodstein’s hand-lettered poster sign was pretty lame. It’s almost as if by a make-shift sign and very casual dress that he want to disguise his suit-and-tie regular day job as a lobbyist. He’s trying to come across as a lowly working stiff backing Lieberman.
punaise @
77
and the drink-coasters which are so important to keep those unsightly water-rings off wooden surfaces like coffee tables!
*ilson – who’s the hostess with the mostest coasters?
(don’t forget the Kos-ters)
I found the clinton/sharpton dem type question odd. Is that orwellian speak? The question Goldstein should be asked is: what is HIS definition of a clinton dem or a sharpton dem?
The Coasters apropos of here : “Yakety-Yak”
OT:
I’m not sure if this is unambiguously good news – or simply an acknowledgement from the neocons that they’re cornered and need to take a breather before coming roaring back, or if they’re feinting toward conciliation while making sure Israel can continue to attack defensively, or something else entirely –
But it looks like at least ambiguously good news, which is I guess the best we can hope for at this point. It also provides an interesting context for the fact that freedom fries and freedom toast were re-renamed in the House cafeteria this past week. Wonder what Hannity et al. will have to say about it.
HeirofPatriots @ 80
Last nite I emailed all 3 reporters:
somebody should ask Joe : what exactly does your campaign have against “Sharpton Democrats”? affirmative action? ending the War? national healthcare? good public schools?
The robo calls have been a bit annoying–I got robo-ed by Chris Dodd, the head of the state AFL-CIO (name blanking), and a state representative (robo-ing for Malloy.) It is annoying, but it gets Lieberman’s name in people’s minds. Which might be good, or might be bad. I was also called by Quinnepeac University doing another poll, asking the same questions as the August 3 poll. I found it interesting that they’re doing another one so soon. Then realized, duh, there’s only a few days left. I’m going to the Norwalk office to see if I can help phonebanking, and to get a sign for my yard this afternoon. It will be the first time I’ve ever participated outside of voting and donating cash. Anyway, if any of you out there can call through Moveon, we need the help. Finally, there this link, about another poll which shows the same size lead for Lamont. The article makes it clear that Lieberman isn’t scaling back his GOTV as much as it might appear from the reports in the national press. http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?…..ef80a0ffad
Peace, everyone.
op99, imo, the photo just fell into their laps. They were totally unprepared and it totally contradicts their Bill Clinton Democrat versus the Al Sharpton Democrat strategy.
Lieberman is doing what Strom Thurmond did in the 60’s, because he couldn’t switch to the Republican party, and he refused to accept LBJ’s Civil Rights legislation. Strom started calling himself a “conservative”
pro-segregation, Democrat.Lieberman wants to skim the votes of wealthy European Americans for his run in the general. So far, the polls confirm he’s failing. If he can’t get wealthy European American Democrats to vote for him in the primary, I don’t see how he can run in the general.
This really illustrates the battle for the democratic party as I see it: it’s between the real people that have to live in the real world and the inside-politics people who are getting rich off of this and see it nothing more than business.
John Casper @ 93
Huh? Sorry, I’m not following.
Thanks medaka at 10:06.
I really enjoyed the textiles on your site. They are beautiful.
op99 @ 82
Your questions are on the money. Basically I think the basic story boils down to this: the Lieberman campaign is in a tailspin and everything they do appears to make things worse for them.
Dissing Sharpton is a way to scare white liberals, not reach out to African Americans. Lieberman himself has made similar statements, so this line of thinking is coming from the top. In other words, as I see it, despite their self-image, most white liberals still have a streak of racism running deep in their psyche, and the Sharpton-Clinton contrast is intended to tap into that: “respectable clean-cut white liberal” vs. “out-of-control angry crazy black folks who play their music too loud and talk funny”.
At the same time, the Lieberman camp is pushing this “Ned is racist” line by invoking the country club and the blackface incident. I think this is also aimed at turning off white liberals, because most black folks or people of color in general won’t take that bait as easily as white liberals seem to think. “All-white country club”? That phrase is so redundant. Frankly, most people of color just assume that everyone is racist to some degree or other, so the charge of racism only has meaning within the context of specific action. When comparing Lieberman and Lamont’s candidacies, the charge is impotent.
Actually, it’s a pretty schizophrenic set of tactics. Joe’s desperate, and he should be, because he’s going down.
Peace.
Terre @90.
Most interesting. How odd the NYT wouldn’t see the AP story.
op99, the photo at Huffpo that was uplinked to Drudge and then was taken down.
rcauthen 89:
I read it as complete double-speak, actually. What constitutes an attack on Israel at this point? Capturing a soldier is probably on the list and then we’re back to the same-old, same-old. Sadly, I’m not encouraged by this latest proposition.
Israel will be “attacked” in some way again, especially now with so much rage in the region… and this almost gives them carte blanche to wail on the populace surrounding the perpetrator. Frankly, I’m getting chills, thinking they will now be covered next time they react with overwhelming force…
ironranger @ 87
I suspect the codespeak is something like this:
Clinton Democrat = reasonable, “civil”, centrist
Sharpton Democrat = wacked out ethnic guy who wants to eat yer babies
(Please note that these are not my views, I’m just parsing that Lobbyist’s behavior and usage)
Thanks for pointing out the you tube video. I loved it.
punaise @
79
egregious! You are doing the work of angels.
Info on Goodstein’s clients:
http://www.publicintegrity.org…..lo=L011265
in 2006 being openly racist is “uncool” so Joe using hired Black kids to dog Lamont isnt about influencing the Black voter but running down Lamont amongst well-meaning white folk. Waters, Sharpton and Jackson endorsed Ned and have powerful influence within the Black community — among white folk not so much. So Joe has build up his anti-racism “street cred” with the hired Black youth. Goodstein was playing to residual white racism with his “Sharpton Democrat” phrase. Within the Black community there’s no dichotomy about Clinton/Sharpton Democrats. Some white folk imagine there is. That’s who Joe/Goodstein was playing to…
I was and am a supporter of Howard Dean, but I have to take issue with the idea that problem with The Scream was that it was taken out of context. What it really was, was a blown opportunity, and it showed that both Dean and Joe Trippi were green with respect to how modern media works.
Hear me out. Dean had just lost the Iowa Caucus. What was called for, at that point was to get his message out to the media before his opponents did, and the place to it was at that rally. He and Trippi should have known that the media were present. He was going out to face cameras that would take whatever he said there and broadcast it all over the news the next day.
Instead of playing to the cameras, he played to the house. BIG MISTAKE. Anybody with television experience knows that. He had a shot at free nationwide air time, and he blew it by leading a pep rally for a couple hundred people. He could have had his spin on the caucus results out there the next morning before any of his opponents could have gotten theirs out.
I blame Joe Trippi, to whom I give full credit for his genius at working the internet. He just didn’t understand how to work TV news.
Kurt @
101
You nailed it in a nutshell, Kurt. Nicely done. (I especially liked the “eat yer babies” bit.)
Now let’s drag Lieberman out of his office and beat him with a stick a couple of times. He will do.
UptownNYChick @ 94
This is exactly right. This Goodstein debacle should highlight the point. Is anyone who could give this a bigger stage listening?
Well, I am a white middle-aged female voter, and if I had to pick between “Bill Clinton Democrat” and “Al Sharpton Democrat” I’d pick Al any day.
I see it as the distinction between DLC dems and true progressive dems. I love Bill Clinton as a celebrity, and I really love it when he drives the wingnuts crazy. But he was way too sympathetic with the multinational corporate agenda for me.
PKC at 147 on the last thread…a suggestion. Contact various schools of medicine, both in your own state and in surrounding states. This seems like a wonderful training/rotation opportunity for some of them.
There ain’t many opportunities for me to say I’m proud to be a Democrat. Today is different. State Senator Nancy Riley, saying there is a “lack of compassion” in the GOP, has switched parties. She’s now a Democrat. Today… I am proud to be a Democrat. And an Oklahoman.
kai — I just read your comment — you phrased it more cogently than I did…
John Casper @ 99
So you’re saying the Liebers are trying to have their cake and eat it, too? They tell blacks on the one hand that Ned is racist because of the blackface thing. They tell whites on the other hand with the “Sharpton Democrat” thing, “vote for me, not the n*-lover.” Yeah, that’s schizoid.
OK…this whole phone call thing at the last second…
I did some calling a few campaigns ago and towards the end of the day felt it was rather pointless. Those that were for my candidate weren’t going to change, and those against my candidate weren’t going to change…at least not at the last second.
Don’t get me wrong, if it works, then by God hammer those phones to death, but does it really work? Is the goal conversion, or is the goal to just help people find out when and where to vote?
When I did it, it was for the big show and I know that’s a diffrent situation.
I dunno, maybe I’m a rarity, but no 11th hour phone call would make me change my vote one way or another. It suprises me that it would make others change. So enlighten me, please. Do the calls work? If so, what about them makes them work? Is it just getting the name out there?
Again, I don’t want to put a damper on efforts at all…I just want to understand a little more about why it’s so important right now.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 111
Can I get an amen!
Zergle @ 114
Last minute calling is about Get Out The Vote…not about changing minds. Minds are pretty much already made up. Now we just have to motivate folks to vote on Tuesday.
Maybe this is why Goodstein backs Joe: one of his clients supplies the military/defense market. You can search it out on their site:
http://www.airproducts.com/search/search.aspx
Zergle @ 114
Isn’t the main point to turn out your vote?
HeirofPatriots @ 98
Strange, isn’t it? Even stranger is that there were three reporters on that story, and not a one of them saw that story?? OR did they chose to ignore it???
Kai @ 97
My thoughts too. You state it better than I would.
I am interested in how Bill Clinton feels about this question of him vs. Al Sharpton. While Hillary’s NY Senate seat is safe, she can’t lose the city and I wouldn’t put it past a Pataki or Guiliani to exploit that comment.
I am going to email her and ask if I have to choose.
*ilson46201 @ 105
I completely agree *ilson and I think Joe/goodstein’s parsing confirms your point. Lieberman is not contrasting Clinton with a Maxine Waters Democrat, or even a Jesse Jackson Democrat. They use the African American who European Americans find least appealing, Al Sharpton.
BTW, European Americans in the 60’s wanted to deal with Martin Luther King,Jr., because they did not want to deal with Malcom X.
Prior to that, European American wanted to deal with Booker T. Washington, because they did not want to deal with WEB Dubois.
Thread Theorist:
Yeah, that tactic of taking over the conversation from the little woman by the guys who mentally stuff their pants legs is instantly recognizable to any life long female. I, too, thought of the Merkel hit-and-run neck grab & his repeated press putdowns. Goldstein’s space invader move told me all I needed to know me all I needed to know about him. Female versions are, of course, the Coulters & Malkins. Frightening for all is that we have a whole administration that lives for wargasms
UptownNYChick @ 121
Ask her if she’s a Bill Clinton Democrat or an Al Sharpton Democrat, lol.
114: OK…this whole phone call thing at the last second…
I don’t know if it works, either, but I’m willing to do what I can. I don’t think a phone call is going to change anyone’s mind who already has it made up. But if you’re wavering, and you get called by one campaign and not the other, that might be the one thing tipping you in a particular direction. It shouldn’t be, but if you’re truly undecided (how one could be escapes me, frankly), maybe it’s just the littlest thing that will tip you. Any one else have any information about the effectiveness of last minute phone calls?
op99 @ 113
Yes.
Oops, I had an all I needed to know echo. Must remember to edit.
Slideguy – best explanation of the Dean scream moment as any I have read. Howard Dean was inexperienced and he bowed to the overwhelming disappointment of those in the crowd who believed in him so much instead of the news cycle. They (the Dean team) forgot all about the race in general and rallied the troops in the field.
I was and still am an avid Dean person, but he was new to the national political stage and to that much scrutiny.
But what impressed me even more, and still does to this day, is he did not give up and go hide in the corner. His country is too important to Him. So he is leading our party and taking the slings and arrows in D.C. for US, and the country. If he can keep his head up, and keep walking towards the goal no matter what, then so can I.
LindyH @ 110
Thanks for the idea. I had not thought of that.
Thanks!
BlueUU — if you’re still around, I left you a comment at the end of the last thread.
We probably need all hands on the phones and volunteering for Ned, but my curiousity and disgust with these tactics wishes someone would take Lieberman’s $60 and expose their connivance from the inside out.
CT Bob @ 60
Gee, I wonder who that could be. Maybe this guy?
Do you suppose the LieberGoon lobbyist will ask him whether he’s a Bill Clinton Democrat or an Al Sharpton Democrat?
UptownNYChick @ 121
Me too. Interested. So far he’s been tangentially associated with (1) spazeboy/Jane ouster at his campaign stop, (2) crappola flyer (3) being used as a counter-balance to a Sharpton Democrat.
Bill? Hellloooo?
LindaR and Oklahoma kiddo, AMEN!!
There were a couple of state legislators in WA that switched from R to D also, earlier this year. They’re in the Seattle suburbs (not my area) so I can’t remember their names. They said they had not changed, the R party left them.
Jenny from the Blog,
Given our overt support for Israel, the language is about as good as could be hoped for but it carries the fatal flaw of so many of these agreements. It is held hostage by the crazies on either side who can create or provoque and incident and destroy it at any time. If no under the table understandings have been made and communicated as to the nature and limits of responses to such incidents, this may be a very short ride.
About the Dean Scream: It never happened — at least, it never happened in real life. I like to call the Dean Scream a “media artifact.” It was a special effect of the microphone type, and I say again it never happened IRL.
It’s like an inverse of the tree-falling-in-the-woods conundrum: If a tree doesn’t fall in the woods, but everybody hears it, did it happen?
And since it never really happened in “real” life, how can anyone be blamed for it? Blame lies with the creators of the artifact — because until the artifact was created, there was no Dean Scream.
*ilson46201 @ 112
Actually I liked the way you put it too (”residual racism” is concise). And I’m glad to see that you get it about the whole racial angle really being a conversation among white folks.
Thanks for all your great work round here.
Namaste.
CT voter 124:
Frankly, the canned ones annoy me no end and I hang up as quickly as possible. I even hung up on George Clooney stumping for somebody on our side during the last election in CA.
The live calls are not so frequent. However, I had a great chat with a Marcy Winograd supporter a few months back who took the time to call, even though she didn’t live in Marcy’s district.
I was already going to vote for Marcy but I thought the caller was so passionate, informed and eloquent it occurred to me someone like this just might sway an undecided. I think our conversation made her feel like she was really making a difference.
A lot of liberals I spoke with around that time really didn’t know how bad Jane Harmon had been on the issues.
So in limited cases, it can work. Overall, I’m very cynical about “undecideds”, though.
Charlie Brown is coming! Charlie Brown is coming! I’m so excited . . .
voter contact telephone calls from humans always worked. Then along came all this computer/telephone shit (robocalling) and you have “Bill Clinton” personally telephoning every registered Democrat in Connecticut several times. It’s overkill and done by candidates with more money than volunteers… real live human phone calls are so much better !
John Casper @ 96
Yeah, they are. Heh.
But something feels really wrong about your reactions to the comments I posted (I thought) very lightheartedly.
FYI, since I think you missed it, the final sentence in my last post, re: “I’ll tone down my act for all concerned…” was completely facetious, irony engines on full-throttle.
John, you’re a serious poster here, whom I’ve followed, as a lurker, for months with great respect. So your smackdown, which I don’t quite understand, makes me think that it might be a good idea for me to disasppear from FDL for a while, back into my “beautiful” textiles, and to keep my support of progressive candidates a bit more back-stage from here on out.
FWIW.
medaka -
I should tell you I forwarded your site to a friend of mine in NYC who is an interior designer for the rich and famous. She was wowed! I think you’ll be hearing from her…
*ilson40621 Post 140
I had a robocall from McCain just yesterday. He sounded robotic in his support of the incumbant Republican. I’d rather vote for Jane Doe up the road than vote for someone who took all of 3 seconds to get a robomessege out there.
Just a little more on the photo. IMO, Joe actually tried to contort it to portray himself as the victim of European American prejudice, Joezoe was one with African Americans.
The image was a completely underestandable attempt to unmask Joe’s blatant hypocrisy. Unfortunately, Joe was able to “reverse the polarity” of the primary symbol. It wasn’t Joe’s hypocrisy that drew attention, it was a decades old symbol many people associate with Jim Crow laws and the legalized white supremacy in the US before the Civil Rights laws of the 60’s.
Jenny from the Blog @ 142
thanks Jenny FTB! Tired here, on the other side of the night. Time for beauty a fat, long beauty snooze.
medaka -
Yes, get some rest. You’ll feel better in the morning!
medaka @ 140
Medaka, John Casper has a very good heart, and we appreciate him a ton, but he isn’t an official spokesperson for FDL. Everyone you identified has been very open (and you missed a few, BTW). If one of them objects to your banter, then he or she can say so. I think you’re a wonderful addition to our conversation, and I would miss you very much if you resumed lurking. Really.
OK…that’s what I needed to understand. It’s really just GOTV. Getting people energized enough to make the effort to vote. Cool. Makes damn good sense and sounds worth while to me.
Still…it bugs me. Just the fact that you have to almost twist American’s arms to vote. It’s just sad ya know?
From Colonel Pat Lang’s website re the US/French resolution. Doesn’t appear that the former MidEast DOD desk chief thinks it’s a very big deal:
Peace? Where?
“That appeared to be a major victory for the U.S. and Israel. France and many other nations had demanded an immediate and halt to violence without conditions as a way to push the region back toward stability.
The French presidential palace in Paris said a deal was reached on a resolution that seeks a total halt to hostilities and would work toward a permanent cease-fire and a long-term solution.” AP
—————————————————————
1- France and the United States are not at war with each other. They cannot agree to end the fighting.
2- Hizbullah thinks it is winning both tactically and strategically. Why will it agree to anything other than a cease-fire in place?
3- Such a cease-fire will be a victory for Hizbullah.
4- Who will disarm Hizbullah if it accepts such a cease-fire?
The news babble over this non-event is meaningless.
Pat Lang
First, the little girl dancing is cute and hilarious.
Second, awesome video clip. That guy is a pure dick hole. He can’t even vouche for his own actions. What kind of man is that? If you pull some temper tantrum bullshit, you better have the balls to own up to it. What a jerk without any character, plain and simple.
I’ll tone down my act for all concerned, promises medaka @ 81.
You do that, you answer to me, grasshopper — and OS, imm, twolf, *ilson, and all the rest of the morning show — not to mention Sharkbabe [promises lotus].
Asking Goldstein to define a Clinton dem or a Sharpton dem or simply a democrat would lob the tennis ball at him & he would have to react. I was thinking of this as a strategy. He was trying to control the play. It’s a trap to respond (which Lamont wisely did not) to those kind of questions. Turn it around & make the republicans in dem clothing ’splain themselves.
That guy’s a prime canidate for Countdowns ‘Worst Person in the World’ (fingers crossed) ; )
Urban Pirate at 9:33
GREATLY appreciate your efforts & those of others.
Gut feeling: Do NOT panic over multiple lieberjo “robocalls” blanketing the state.
Living in OH, we get those, and people HATE those calls. It’s annoying, demeaning, disruptive, INFURIATING to us! And we have caller ID as well as ans. machine in our house.
People in NJ surely know there’s a primary this next Tues. My guess is, Ned’s campaign is doing it just right – live calls, meaningful calls, and a marvelous candidate as the main focus – always.
Incessant liebermachine-calls, piled onto over-the-top nasty campaigning by liebergoons, with that gollygooberlobbyboy darling blowing his top (priceless!) – for any voter with a pulse, this stuff is off-putting, to say the very least.
If people aren’t already hiding under their beds trying to escape from Joey’s overkill, I’ll, I’ll, … well.
suffice to say: the vibes all the way out here in OH are good for Ned!
Take a deep breath, & keep doing what you’re doing. GO NED! Yeah! YAY! The nation’s watching!
PKC, Hi! I’ve been meaning to say Hello to you since I noticed your posts about your Tribal affairs the other night. I would like to add another suggestion for you, try contacting some other Tribes that are running successful programs for some valuable input and their personal experiences on improvements. My Tribe the Sault Ste. Marie Tribe of Chippewa Indians of Michigan, (which covers the entire Upper Peninsula), has spent years now investing into hospitals, clinics, education, businesses, infrastructure, and help for Elders just to name a few. Our official website is:
http://www.saulttribe.com
Write them please, they have outstanding programs in place. Drop a line to me too!
As an aside: To whomever made the unfortunate crack yesterday about “Stupid Squaw”, (and it was capitalized for added insult) I’m here to tell you I hope you have recovered your brain by now, please don’t attempt that again, especially if I’m on a current thread. Thanks.
medaka @ 140
medaka, thanks for the compliments.
I definitely did not intend my comment to you to be a “smackdown” of you.
You are correct, I thought you’re “tone-down” was literal. Thanks for catching that.
medaka, FDL needs all the traffic it can get, so all things being equal, I hope you stay.
If in the future, you make comments that sound to me like gay bashing, I have a very strong opinion on that and I’ll let you know. Then we’ll figure out if my interpretation was accurate or not. I’m just one commenter and there are a lot of other people who have opinions on that.
If you have more to say on this subject, either now or in the future, that’s fine, just let me know. We can take it to another thread, since we are both off topic on this one.
Robo call me and place any hope of support in serious jeopardy. If a campaign calls me more than once same result. I really hope Nedsters are not participating in phone flogging with redundant lists. If I were an on the fence voter this weekend and Lieberman had called me five times in one day, I would either not vote or go for Ned.
John C, for pity’s sakes! MEDAKA IS GAY!
{{{John Casper}}}
{{{medaka}}}
I love you both, more than words can say.
John Casper @ 144
Well, I’m going to write something longer about this whole fiasco on my own blog, but let me just say one thing here that most FDLers seem to be missing…
Blackface has always been about one thing: white folks depicting black folk as mentally retarded circus animals. It has never been about “white folks pretending to be black”, it has always been about white folks making black folks look ridiculous, stupid, slavish, emasculated, incompetent, etc. Later on, white folks even got black entertainers to don this insulting mask in order to further burnish the image of white supremacy (like Asian actors these days being forced to say things like “No more yanky my wanky! Long duck dong!”). I read darkblack’s huffy explanation in a previous thread, and it misses the mark. This isn’t about overly subtle satire or political correctness; it’s about understanding our shared American history and culture, and respecting one another as we try to live in peace together. The Blackface Lieberman image was a backward step in the American project.
Peace.
oh lotus.
there you go again, organizing the welcoming committee, serving all the tea, now straightening the napkins for the umpteenth time.
perfect hostess ;->
Shez @ 154
Thanks!
I would appreciate contact.
I am at SoDakCat at g mail
Kai -
What you said. Perhaps someday we’ll have a thorough post-mortum on the whole affair, so I won’t say any more at the moment.
Oh, and before I log off I just want to say how madly in love I am with John Casper. He treated me with respect when I first arrived and made me feel welcome… Thanks, John.
medaka @
141
Hi medaka -
I hope you remain active here – your comments are as vibrant as your work.
I’m just a dumb white male, but your light-hearted post seems innocuous. These last three years in SF may have dulled my perceptions of homophobia, but I kinda doubt it…..
All I saw in your post was a self-identified queer person expressing opinons about Joe to other queer peeps. My queer friends here seem to speculate about other folks’ closeted status (is he/she? or isn’t he/she?) with abandon and no suggestion of homophobia or prejudice arises.
Now faggosaurus – I haven’t hung with any out dinosaurs (verbal or not) so I’ll have to defer to those with direct experience of such wonders.
Come to think of it, I haven’t hung with any closeted or straight dinosaurs, either. I think I need to self-check about mammal supremacy….
PS – I apologize if advance if this brings out a tempest from the Lizards for Lieberman astroturf group. Might resultant photo-ops go towards my atonement?
Well, thank you, Adie, but it’s all my momma’s doing. (She tried mightily to un-dyke-ify me, too, but that part didn’t take.)
John Casper @ 156
Thank you, John. There must have been a really big disconnect inside all of this. Gay bashing? From moi? Girls and boys, when I get a good haircut, and am shod in my Vardas, I am SUPER FAGGOT ™.
Let’s call it a day (yours) and night (mine), and get back to work on what really matters:
the future, now.
kirk murphy nails a 707!
UptownNYChick @
121
As I am in Brooklyn, I was just wondering exactly the same thing. Even Bloomberg dare not dis Sharpton!
John Casper and medaka – Remind me of a huge arguement (on a completely different topic) I once had with a best friend of mine. We were passionate in our positions and only after stepping away I remembered we were both in complete agreement.)
Jenny from the Blog @ 164
Me too. John Casper is a prince among princes!
kirk murphy @ 165
Thanks Kirk, yay SF.
I lived there when it was a giant funeral parlor for fags. Right now, here in the heat, I sure miss the spiced ice cream (rose water, kulfi, ginger) at Bombay Bazaar down there in the Mission …
lotus @ 157
Gee lotus, I guess my gaydar isn’t working.
Is medaka a boy or a girl? Does s/he have aids? Is medaka a tranny? If I didn’t know medaka was gay, how are the newbies supposed to know? We booted gunnut out of here for asking egregious if he could watch her daughter. Do you want to invite gunnut back?
If readers start reading anyone calling goodstein a fag, then I guarandamntee you’ll be reading “fag” and dyke, and “tranny” a lot more. Do you want commenters to have to list their orientation so we can all appreciate the humor?
Right now we don’t have to fight those diction battles. Language matters.
An excellent point, Eureka 170.
And John, if somebody ever disses you, we’ve all got your back just as you have ours. I apologize for that “for pity’s sake.”
timewarp @ 169
I do not agree with everything Sharpton says/does. When he stood up at one of the debate and said something like “Until you can prove to me that gays are not humans, I am not going to eny them human rights,” when asked about a gay marriage ban, I decided that was cool.
So, I am a little put off by having to choose.
If I didn’t know medaka was gay, how are the newbies supposed to know? We booted gunnut out of here for asking egregious if he could watch her daughter. Do you want to invite gunnut back?
This is getting weird Firepups, and I’m not going to to touch it. Outta here, folks, and gonna lay low for a while. G’night, sweet dreams.
The thing I find fascinating is that I doubt so many people would have dug into Goodstein’s background if he hadn’t been repeating his Clinton/Sharpton line, leading us to think “what the heck is that about?”
After hearing his (slightly) more extended explanation of what he means by it, I suspect it represents the mentality of people whose opinions of Sharpton were formed in the Tawana Brawley incident, and who tune out anything he’s done since then (like his great speech at the 2004 convention, for example), because they already “know” he’s a crazy wacko.
It reminds me of wingers who yell “get a job, hippie” at anyone with long hair. They’re sure they know what it “means,” so they don’t have to actually think. (Mysteriously, they did this even during the dot-com boom, when there were many longhairs making more money than they were.)
Unfortunately, in the case of the political establishment, I think the desire to dismiss Sharpton is part of internalizing attacks from the other side, and pursuing the hopeless task of never doing anything that “they” could use against us, rather than being bold and honest about what we think.
Hey gang.
Aren’t we getting awfully close to the edge in this thread? I like good *snark* most of the time. I’m not normally a wilting flower, but this feels different.
Admittedly, everyone’s on edge. How about taking it down a notch, eh? Just sayin’..
(((peace)))
good night medaka, sleep well amigo.
Kai at 11:18:
Good point, and thanks for stating it so clearly.
Kai-160 That paragraph says it all. Blackface may be the most toxic stereotype in the US. It distills in one image the vicious,dehumanizing racism from the late 1860’s to a similar time in the 20th century.
John, you’ll appreciate this.
In my first chat with medaka (actually, our second, now that I recall), I took that final “a” as part of a female given-name and used female pronouns. Which brought, from far-off Nara, a quick snicker “Oh and I’m a he and so’s my husband!”
General hilarity ensued, crack-of-dawn (here) or not.
medaka, I got it now, thanks to lotus and your 11:23. I had no clue. I know I should have gotten it from the Oriental Rugs, but in my experience, some of the worst gay bashers are those who feel they are in an occupation that somehow paints them as less masculine than they would like to be peceived. That was my take, before I learned the truth.
It’s all good between you and me medaka.
I think there are some diction issues, that I let fly in my response to lotus at 11:32, but thank God, those get made by the rest of the community.
What you are all probably seeing is the very health conscious of a reformed gay basher. Growing up, calling someone a fag was figting words. I doubt I had the courage to call someone that to their face, but I don’t ever recall objecting when someone used it of someone behind their back.
Niters, medaka, see ya by the rising sun.
Thanks lotus for your 11:41
*crickets*
What Adie said at 11:37 am –
A lot of the comments at FDL have been over heated lately, and understandably so.
Still, for our own mental health and the well being of FDL, it would be wise to step back and cool off a little.
food for thought . . .
FWIW, I’m with Adie at 11:37.
medaka:
Please don’t go for long, because of bad feelings. I am usually a huge fan of JC and his approach, but personally, as a lesbian and mother, I never want this forum to suppress gay expression, no matter who might be reading it now. My two cents.
I bet the lobbyist was paid a LOT more than the $60/day given to the LIEberyouths! Why in the world doesn’t even ONE reporter put in their article that Joe’s ‘volunteers’ are PAID, while Ned’s are there of their own volition???
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
Here is Bagnewsnotes and a Slate piece on the “minstrel Joe” flap.
http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.co…..l#comments
http://www.slate.com/id/2147117/?nav=ais
-GSD
Kai, I agree with much of your post but the thing I must take exception to is “darkblack’s huffy explanation in a previous thread”. I have managed to keep completely out of the fray on this issue so far but I must step up for darkblack who is immeasurably off the charts in intelligence, wit, and compassion. I saw not one whit of ‘huffy’ in the rare responses darkblack finally graciously made, very luckily for us, and I think darkblack has taken enough of a drubbing over the whole ordeal. If there was that perception it came from all the screaming for darkblack to remove something that s/he had no control over at the time, nor now. Please understand that I think you are both a treasure to FDL, and my apologies if I’m misunderstanding your inflection which doesn’t translate well on these here internets toobz. I can’t wait to get my VoIP software up and running for us all so that we can hear our voices, crystal clear.
John and Medaka -
Thank you both for your contributions to fdl and this community.
John, I so respect and admire the care and energy you devote to enuring this discussion space is open and accepting to all.
As a clumsy nerd who was called “faggot” and “communist” for several grades, I wish folks like you had been around in my elementary and middle schools – if more people learned your values, our nation would be stronger and kinder.
Medaka, I so love the wordplay and joy you shared today – I hope you share again soon.
(and ps – I think you may have sent me off to Bombay Bazaar today…arigato for the tip)
UptownNYChick @ 175
I do not agree with everything Sharpton says/does. When he stood up at one of the debate and said something like “Until you can prove to me that gays are not humans, I am not going to eny them human rights,” when asked about a gay marriage ban, I decided that was cool.
So, I am a little put off by having to choose.
Me neither. He is, to say the least, a polymorphous character. He is not easy for people who deal only in certainties to stomach.
But over the last few years, when he does speak in public, I find that he articulates a perspective spoken by many progressives in private to each other, and that is refreshing.
Plus the fact that the most the more racist someone is, the more they seem to hate him. Guiliani comes to mind. And for that reason alone, I will defend his relevance.
Kirk — so you are just a communist and not a faggot — well, nobody’s perfect !
Thanks -ck- & RBG.
Wasn’t sure how well that would go over.
Such a great group. Old horse-trainer in me says loose rein, or none, is the only way.
Still. You can always put down a sharp stick, and superficial wounds can heal. But hurtful words can last a lifetime.
Plenty of good give ‘n take around our house, but we never let our kids fight, nor eachother. All of us are grownups now, and best of friends.
I want that same spirit for FDL. Pretty pushy for a relative newbie, eh? tough! ;->
{{{{{FDL}}}}}
Kai @ 159
Kai, I very respectfully disagree.
IMO, a lot of people are legitimately unaware of the new segregation that has taken place in the U.S. and the variety of opinions that are still prevalent about that particular historical symbol.
The “cross” has become the central symbol for Xtians, but it means something entirely different for non-Xtians, particularly those in the Middle East of all religions. For all of them it is a symbol of oppressers and occupiers.
I don’t think any European Americans really understand how institutionally brutal and savage the African American holocaust and its ongoing legacy U.S. are.
WRT the photo, however, once an appreciation of how the photo might be interpreted was understood, it was taken down. It’s that sensitivity and appreciation that in my opinion should be really applauded. It happened under extremely severe durress when taking the photo down appeared to be an admission that some kind of white supremacy had played a part in its creation. I know you found the author’s explanation unsatisfactory, but as you can tell I have a different opinion.
John Casper 11:41am- Fine summary. Few regulars would doubt your integrity when considering many human conditions. Even defense of point can be misunderstood. You are indeed another treasure of the lake.
*ilson -
well, I’m even more flawed than that – Marx’s prose makes my eyes glaze over.
love his movies, though.
*ilson
miss prissy says, PLEASE straighten your fork.
*cicadas*
ES, AR, thank you very much.
in addition to his politics, I always find Karl’s writings fascinating to read — a fine mind applying it to something worthwhile.
but like I said — nobody’s perfect!
John Casper, I’ll go one further, you are a National FDL Treasure. And a complete gentleman, one of your best qualities by far.
lotus, thanks for your concern and I had no problem with the “pity’s sake.” I found it very approrpiate under the circumstances.
Here’s a thought…what may be appropriate terms of endearment among close friends may not be appropriate language in mixed company…which I hope we all agree is one of the strengths of FDL.
Please consider your words carefully…mods included.
Thanks Shez, much appreciated.
The lotus position.. ;)
This was brought up last night, about how crushed we were after Kerry lost but this is a very upseting (to me) post over at the Generals
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com…..6491976106
At least Kerry was human, which probably was his demise.
now we’re gettin’ all mushy.
is it hot in here, or is it just me?!
I didn’t see much of a meltdown on Goodstein’s part as the online captions suggested, but I did see plenty of slimey behavior. Touching that woman, interrupting that CONNECTICUT CITIZEN, was rude and the behavior of an oaf.
Shame on you Goodslime.
Op99
You can sign up to volunteer as an election monitor in NYS at
http://www.nydlc.org/signup.php
I also sent out an email to find out who the area coordinator for Rochester is. When I find out, I’ll try to get you some direct contact info.
If anybody sees op99 around later, please direct him/her to this message. Thanx
UptownNYchick, Jesus’ General is 100 proof political satire. He is praising Kennedy and Kerry and the other Dems who go to the funerals and dissing the WH.
I hope that helps.
biggus diggus at 12:21
re: measuring meltdown.
slimy, rude, oafish &, unless that video was colorized, true meltdown? Any faster & something might have popped. Watch video again. Words are sorta measured, but check out that rapid change in face color. – whoa -
not someone I’d want to be standing anywhere near – ever, actually. eeeeewwwww.
Asking whether someone is a Clinton dem or Sharpton dem is much less a real question than it is a political ploy by the Goodsteins of the world. If someone says, “Oh, you’re a liberal” in a tone that implies that they think they have you pegged, just ask them to define what “liberal” means. I like to throw that question back at them. It occurred to me that when a republican realizes I am a liberal, he/she automatically assumes they know exactly what I am all about. Back to the Goodstein crowd, I don’t want to be snookered into choosing one of the 2 options they created. I like offense better than defense.
biggus at 12:21, the “meltdown” doesn’t happen until the very end and the sound isn’t very good. You can only barely hear goodstein’s voice, but it is clear that he is shouting.
IMO, the discussion on this thread about a one-syllable word beginning with f mirrors what happened with that photo that has garnered so much attention. There are vast difference in the way people interpret the identical symbol/word.
ironranger @ 214
good point
Asking whether someone is a Clinton dem or Sharpton dem immediately sets a recognizable tone. In that tone I would just answer….Both or yes
John Casper @
213
Yes, I absolutely get that it is satire. What pisses me off is the obvious disconnect there. That it is so blatantly obvious that W and his “compassionate conservatives,” have absolutely no compassion.
My apologies uptown, I thought you were criticizing the General.
ES,AR at 12:26
Both? Hold up, cowboy.
That immediately saddles Lamont with perceived flaws of both Clinton & Sharpton, both of whom are highly complicated fellas – in personality as well as history.
Ned’s his OWN guy, maybe representing elements of the stated beliefs of both?
There’s gotta be a way to say that better than I have, but I’m afraid of people having an immediate negative gut reaction, based on things they already [think they] know about Clinton & Sharpton that turns them off, bigtime.
Not fair to Ned. He’s a strong, positive candidate in his own right. Not good to box him in. JoeCampaign, MSM, & repubs are trying their mightiest to do that as it is.
I’m with Iron Ranger re:
Eureka Springs, AR @ 218
I’d change the paradigm and say “I’m a Connecticut Democrat” – - with a big smile.
…and your little dog, too at 12:53
YESSSS!
unless, perhaps, you want to lose the extra “e” on Connecticut…
John Casper -
I’m not a PC prig. I laugh at all kinds of rude and off-color stuff. So my objection to the graphic was not first and foremost one of uptight political correctness. I guess I just didn’t think it was funny… that kind of image is just not amusing. It also wasn’t an appropriate graphic to attach to a WalMart post. Also, we could all see it coming… Ned was going to have to spend some valuable minutes either in the public eye or with his staff in a back room, to deal with the situation. Time not well spent in these last days of the campaign.
I guess the bottom line is that it didn’t get any bang for its buck. And it just wasn’t worth it. Anything that has to be explained in detail isn’t worth it. Explaining a joke makes it a bad joke.
I know apologies have been made and I think it’s already blown over, but I don’t think it serves us to justify its usage after the fact. IMO.
Eureka SpringsAR:
I have gotten really tired of the republican highjacking game & boy, we can fall into it so easily. We all need to have our radar operating 24/7 to avoid being blindsided and be one step ahead. They are sneaky little basturds & have had decades of practice.
Last word on the subject: It wasn’t fair to Ned.
A later add-on to Adie’s comments on the temp. We’re all counting the hours like a hen on her first clutch.
I came here for the Plame being a windy city guy and a huge Fitz fan {he’s a big fav of ALL sides in Chi – integrity} and stayed for the community.
I remember when the Rove was dropped from prosecution – a cold day at FDL.
But Jane in her wisdom and guidance, led us to Ned.
AND HEY WE WON!
No matter the outcome on Tuesday, FDL has come light years. It is truly amazing what we have put together for CT.
I think all firepups should be very proud of their fellow conspirators – I’m a big parrot fan so there all you cat and dog lovers!
ironranger at 12:57
Agreed.
See what you think of 221 & 222
Adie:
I would say that I am an AMERICAN DEMOCRAT & damn proud of it.
WHOAAAAAAAA that was fun!! Guess lobbyests dont like being confronted by name …. it was cathatric to watch this guy richard get a taste of whats its like out in real America where 200$ lunch’s dont buy you access to the inner workings of whatever you want.
the way I see it this is the first salvo of real America taking our country back from K-STREET, one compromised incumbant at a time. It was great to watch just how fast Mr Goodstein was outed on the blogs as a lobbyest….now I wonder who that woman standing behind him in this tape was….possibly one of those wife lobbyest for lieberman?
are the ‘kids’ carrying the water ooops i mean signs for Richard summer interns for big pharma? I wonder how much school credit one gets for being a lobby thug for joe lieberman???
ironranger
LOVE IT! Go forth damn proud, Grasshopper! ;->
see, I’m NOT crazy !!!
I don’t even want to hit loserman with a stick. I just want to kick him in the balls a few hundred times (and then in the head an equal number of times, and then spit on his political corpse before we toss him off the raft)
is that so bad ???
one guy agrees with me
soon we will be many
there’s one person
see, I’m NOT crazy !!!
I don’t even want to hit loserman with a stick. I just want to kick him in the balls a few hundred times (and then in the head an equal number of times, and then spit on his political corpse before we toss him off the raft)
is that so bad ???
one guy agrees with me
soon we will be many
John Casper – I look forward to the post kineticut energy when we may have a completely unveiled discussion about symbols, art, freedom of speech and effective censorship techniques resulting from interpretations of history and out of context political motives. I see a pretty good conversation about it now.
Listening to the Neville Brothers now and a spoken line “Freedom of speech, as long as you don’t say to much”…
little dog – connecticut dem, even better!
Hey I don’t agree with many fellow dem pols, but would still identify myself with them as a fellow of the party…yes,even Bill or Al. Al just campaigned for Lamont at the time of the question iirc.
Offense better than defense. I agree and duffusing a question with a quick CT dem, both, or yes answer was my thought on how to retain the tone of all inclusive dems, not dividing them. That was the tone the question was trying to deflate imo.
Knot at 1:11
Wasn’t that video just plain fun tho?! No one got hurt, ‘cept maybe the political & bidness fortunes of the guy trying to put ON the hurt.
Just lovely all around. He’ll be real careful about goin’ out in public for awhile, & going in to the office Monday might be a bit uncomfortable for the cherub.
But, then, it’s just a tad too late to worry about all that, isn’t it?
Whoopsie Daisy! Har! ;->
bludog said
So true and I hope this is a sign of more to come.
I wish the lady in the video would of jerked up her arms, ala Ms. Merkel, and then retorted “Please don’t man-handle me”. On the record.
She smiled and laughed it off but it didn’t make a point or any impact on the assclown.
JennyftB, imo, prior to the photo, everyone who was supporting Ned, was looking for a way to reveal Joe’s transparent hypocrisy wrt African Americans. I suspect a lot of people in and out of the campaign felt some pressure to create an effective symbol that would communicate that message. This is before the latest polls came out showing Ned ahead. It’s also after Bill Clinton put his arm around Joe. African Americans tend to distrust Bill less than most other European Americans. Also the HuffPo piece wasn’t just about Walmart, it was about being on the ground with Lamont so there were a several issues covered in the post, one of which was Joe’s hypocrisy wrt African Americans.
I think it’s helpful to remember the context and the goal before the photo went up. With that said, your point that the photo didn’t net Ned much is absolutely correct. What so many people are ignoring is that the post stayed up intact. No modifications were made.
I don’t mean to be defending the photo or attacking it. I am familiar with the author’s work and I know what the goal was. I also completely support the taking down of the photo in this particular context. I am very concerned that criticism of the photo damages the author and that is a very serious concern I have. Art is separate from the artist. The fact that the photo was not suitable in this context in no way detracts from its suitability in other contexts or from its character as art, an interpretation of experience. The aim of the artist was at one with the aim of African Americans in CT and the U.S. Whether the product of the aim, the art, the phtoto, actually communicated that is open to legitimate question. Ned’s campaign made what I thought was a good decision. Given the context, and all the factors currently in play, this was simply not a battle the campaign wanted to fight. I think the campaign made absolutely the right decision. That doesn’t mean I agree that the photo was bad or insensitive; or that the author was either, I don’t.
Shez at 11:52 am:
This is an important point, one that may not have been clear to all at the time, and one which I highlight just in case anybody’s still unclear on darkblack’s culpability, or responsibility, or whatever, for any subsequent fallout.
bludog at 1:05, second on the parrot love. I am owned by two greys. . . Are we then Firebirds?
John Casper at 197 re: people unaware of historical symbols. Years ago there was a PBS documentary about pictorial portrayal of African-Americans in the later half of the 19th and early 20th centuries. For a non A-A, this program really showed me that these images were not an issue of PC but something that is truly evil. I can’t remember the name of the program (Help?)or if it is available; but it is a must see for anyone interested in this topic.
John Casper -
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I am a working artist, a painter, and I’ve spent most of my life surrounded by and studying art. As much as I appreciate darkblack’s work in most instances, I honestly don’t think that particular graphic can be held up as a piece of particularly original art. How is photoshopping blackface on a photo a work of high art (or low art, for that matter). I think we’re getting off base if we elevate that graphic to a lofty place. I’d probably die for the artist’s right to express him/herself, but I think going to the mat for that particular piece is silly.
Personally, I’m not a fan of “literary” art in any circumstance. I’ve never liked feminist art, as an example. I think art transcends story, but that’s my particular leaning. This is an age-old debate and it would be interesting to delve into it more deeply at some point.
I guess we just disagree on all levels (the quality of the work, the intent, the appropriateness in the context of trying to help a candidate win an election and also whether this candidate would ever, ever express himself this way, which I doubt (is this a run-on sentence or what?) I don’t mean to disrespect FDL or darkblack. I’m hooked on the place and I already love everyone here. But I am also glad I have an opportunity to disagree once in a while. This particular event was a huge disappointment to me.
Ah well, I suppose I’ve said too much. :)
This has been very interesting for me to clarify my thoughts & realizing how insidious the language control is on even the most independent thinkers. Drip, drip, drip.
Republican’s track record of the last 6 years=fubar. Dems need to point out loudly & incessantly who made these messes & don’t let them change the subject with Clinton, Michael Moore or Jane Fonda or other such nonsense.
Republicans in dem clothing or the “sometimes I feel like a democrat, sometimes I don’t” bunch are the ones that need to define themselves, not the dems fighting for a fair shake for everyone.
The onus should be on repubs & would be repubs. Dems need to refuse to take the rhetorical bait thrown out by the language twisters & stay on target.
It kind of reminds me of the dumb arguments husband & I had when early married. One would say, “why are you so crabby? & the other would say, “I’m not crabby, you’re the one that’s crabby” & the first would say “It’s not me that’s crabby, it’s you.” & so on. (Needless, to say, that was so ridiculous, it was shortlived.) I think that spending time answering the clinton/sharpton dem question is about as productive & remember who started it!!!
Hypatia @ 1:33, yes Grays Rule!
I sometimes think we all need a little Pheonix in us to persevere in these dark times.
After too much [news], the heart gets sad so I pull up with Gumby and read FDL to lighten the darkness. I just love to see the turkeys “get beaked” – it sounds better then snark.
But I’m really amazed at how we and so many others have rallied behind Ned and the results show it. I was telling a friend yesterday how I remember when Ned was like 47 points behind Joey and now he appears to be leading.
I think we should flavor the comments with phrases like “ruffled feathers” and “don’t beak me” to more centrally orientate our image! :) :) :)
Shez at 1:26
I’m kinda thinking that lady’s terrific just as is. She just makes you smile to look at her and, by gum, she stood right up to Bozo when he pretended to confess he thot she was done talking(yeah, right).
Ms Interested Voter was so earnest in her discussion that Bozo was trying to interrupt, and she was so obviously just a really nice lady. Her vibes were all good: friendly campaign, friendly interested voter educating herself about the candidate, or at least trying to.
But lo! In barges Belligerant Bozo, interrupting Ms Voter repeatedly in his ill-conceived attack on the campaign, his attack on Ms. Voter’s personal space & on civility in general. He was throwing out red flags all over the dang place, for at least the 2nd time in 2 days! (are there more videos out there???)
That’s just not a good thing for GoJo’s campaign, not good at all.
I’d hate to be a client of Bozo’s right now, or a colleague whose paycheck depended on Bozo’s bidness. Nuh-uh!
Jane’s got an update from CT upstairs.
I share the FDL addition with you.
No, I suspect that FDL’ers will read your comments, as an artist, with interest. I am not an artist, but I do understand that photoshop is brand new.
When you have time, you may enjoy going back through the archives just to see the evolution of art at FDL. At least it will give you some insights into Jane and Christy’s tastes. IIRC in FDL’s earlier days, the pics/photos often had nothing to do with the post. They were just good art, often classical, for example, Peter Rubens, impressionists…. Only gradually did it evolve to be fully integrated with the post and photoshop.
Thanks, John. I would be very interested in going through the archives as you suggest!
Have a wonderful day…
Jenny from the Blog, thanks for your comments and your thoughtful back-and-forth with John Casper. You and I are on the same page on this one, but I’m glad we can have a legitimate discussion about this minefield of a topic and respect different views without descending into ugly rhetoric. I’m also glad that The Picture has been roundly condemned by the visual analysts at BAGNewsNotes.
Writing in today’s Hartford Courant, here’s how local columnist and community activist Stan Simpson sees it:
Peace.
Jenny—->242
If only the “press” would ask the questonWhy?every now and then, followed by more questions.
Obviously, seeking knowledge is not part of our corrupted msm’s MO.
Although initialy taken aback by the power of DB’s work I understood it in context.(something the punditocracy, all to often refuses to demonstrate publicly)