“elimination of the Zionist regime” does NOT say eliminate Jews but to eliminate a particular government. The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming! scared Americans for years — nowadays the fabrications continue about Zionist regime equals Jews or Israelis.

Dont let the fear-mongers get you down! It’s all propaganda to justify whatever the IDF wishes to do…

Ok, you caught me. I was equating the “Zionist Regime” propoganda with Israel.

But you need to correct Wikipedia. “Zionism is a political movement and ideology that supports a homeland for the Jewish people in the Land of Israel”

So we need to remove any Zionist Governments that believe the Jewish people should have a homeland is Israel? But we don’t want to “wipe Israel off the map” or destroy Israel’s Government. That’s absurd and exaggerating?

What kind of Government would Israel have that doesn’t support a Homeland for the Jewish people in Israel? We don’t want to wipe Israel off the map, we Just want all the Jews out of Israel and to remove any Jewish homeland. Not out of hatred of Jews… but from… what exactly?

If we want to eliminate a Government that supports the Jewish people of Israel living in Israel, isn’t that removing, running off, or killing Jews?

If not, please find me a dfinition of Zionism that doesn’t relate to Jews and Israel.

Clearly you are not a scholar of Sun Tzu. For Sun Tzu, extreme excellence was to defeat your enemy without fighting him.

The IDF is not on “unfavorable ground”, nor is the IDF outnumbered. Israel maintained a force in Southern Lebanon for 18 years, and withdrew on it’s own terms. How some people, like Hizbollah, view this as a tactical victory for the Terrorists has always amazed me. In today’s context, is it in Hizbollah’s and Lebanon’s best interests to have the IDF come back in for another 18 years? This is what resulted from the last time Palestinian Terrorists used Lebanon as a staging ground for attacking Israel. Is this Nasrallah’s goal again? How would that be a victory forHizbollah again? I doubt Sun Tzu would view that as a victory for Hizbollah, as Hizbollah’s goal is to destroy Israel, not merely to remove Israel from Lebanon. You also ignores the fact that, for Hamas, Hizbollah, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa, or any other terrorist entity, “occupation” means “Israel”. It’s not simply about the settlements, Shebaa Farms, the Bekaa, it’s about a Jewish State in the Middle East.

If you are unable to come to terms with these simple, common sense principles, you are hardly in a position to be quoting Sun Tzu, much less second guessing the leaderhsip of nation states.

The acts of brutal, Islamic terrorism all over the world, are signs of weakness and not signs of strength. Any idiot can set off a car bomb. Any idiot can strap dynamite to them and destroy innocent lives. Any idiot can walk into a school in suburban Colorado and take lives (Columbine). There is no difference. Israel is perhaps the most secure nation on the planet, yet they cannot stop terrorism.

Militant Islamic Fundamentalism is doomed to failure because of its very nature. We won’t kill it, it will kill itself. But, we have to have the resolve to recognize this and support those who are on the front lines fighting it. Right now, those on the Front Lines are in Israel, as it has always been, as well as Afghanistan, and Iraq.

given the multi-generational trauma caused by the Holocaust, why does it appear so difficult for many Israelis to identify with the sufferings of others”

Fern, see Pachacutec @142: “This is because those traumatic wounds have not healed.”

Having never experienced such profound suffering as the Holocaust, I offer the following very tentatively and hopefully without arrogance. To suffer a trauma of this magnitude requires an empathy and compassion of equal or greater magnitude. The pain would need to be allowed to be felt fully without any resistance, meaning without blame. How many of us have the capacity to do this even with little slights, not even considering “the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.” Based on what I’ve seen and what’s been reported, Israel doesn’t look to me to have moved past the blame/victim stage which I understand is necessary for radical healing.

Personally, I will say that Pachacutec’s insightful and sensitive comments about the aftermath of the Holocaust awakened a compassion for Israel I wasn’t feeling before and put Israel’s actions in a different light for me, that of unhealed trauma.

Pach wrote: “[T]he best strategic choice is not to take the bait, but to stand firm within your borders, look to your defenses and shore up your alliances.” I wonder, though, how this would keep Hamas from launching rockets into Israel from Gaza or Hezbollah from Lebananon? Maybe you are aware of some super-secret anti-missile defense system that Israel could install? I’m just not seeing how your “best strategic choice” would do anything, at all, to stop the rockets.

It won’t. In the short term, nothing will. That’s the point.

Progressives are not the friends of Israel.

Any honest appraisal of the creation of Israel leads to the conclusion that it was created at the cost of the Palestinians. The creation of Israel was a land grab–by craft, force, or any other means necessary. Jabotinsky and the rest were very clear in what they were doing and what they were willing to do to achieve their aims.

I sympathize with Jews who wish Israel the best, and who would grieve at the loss of that nation. I appreciate that Israel is a beacon of Western democracy and values in a backwards part of the world.

But Israel was born by theft, maintained by brutal force, and no good can come of it. And it’s an albatross around the neck of the U.S.

So Nick, what’s your proposal? The post that started all this, and the numerous comments submitted in its spirit, suggest at least a general approach, even if they don’t agree on the details. That approach is one that is a fundamentally optimistic one that would treat all concerned as capable of much better behavior, without placing blame for past behavior.
But it does assume the continued existence of Israel. Is that an acceptable starting point for you?

Dont let the fear-mongers get you down! It’s all propaganda to justify whatever the IDF wishes to do…

http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746081.html

Ahmadinejad’s call to destroy Israel draws French condemnation
By The Associated Press

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis was to destroy Israel, Iranian state media reported.

…

“Although the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime, at this stage an immediate cease-fire must be implemented,” Ahmadinejad said, according to state-run television in a report posted on its Web site.

So why is the Iranian State Media reporting today that he’s claiming the solution to the ME crisis is to destroy Israel?

So, is the Iranian media right-wing Bush lovers trying to skew the story? Or can we agree now that Ahmadinejad is calling for the destruction of Israel?

Can we at least agree that the excuse that this is just another mistranslation is unlikely?

I do think there may have been a slight mistranslation, it says “main solution” and really sounds like a “final solution” if I’m not mistaken…

As Norske would say, keep the faith.
By the way where is Norske? Haven’t seen any posts from him lately.