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	<title>Comments on: The Par-Tay Party Is In The House!</title>
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		<title>By: Wagontongues &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Insufficient Funds</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-216204</link>
		<dc:creator>Wagontongues &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Insufficient Funds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2006 01:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-216204</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[…] It’s not my style to recommend a tv show. Until now. Last Friday’s Oprah show on poverty in America was a moving show that depicts the reality of an essential, yet underpaid and undervalued part of our society. I was moved to tears. I was outraged. I was shocked. Christy Hardin Smith of Firedoglake explains a shameful situation… Here are some real family values: Americans who live on minimum wage have not had an increase in that pay for ten years — a decade at the same pay rate — while expenditures, especially costs on energy prices, have gone up, up, up. They are squeezing their budget every way you can think, just to survive, to feed their kids, to give them a decent home. And they are working their butts off — two and three jobs for each parent, leaving the kids hanging out quite a bit with grandma and grandpa, who get to enjoy their golden years by being permanent babysitters (who can’t afford both their prescription meds and food…but hey, who is counting…). […]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] It’s not my style to recommend a tv show. Until now. Last Friday’s Oprah show on poverty in America was a moving show that depicts the reality of an essential, yet underpaid and undervalued part of our society. I was moved to tears. I was outraged. I was shocked. Christy Hardin Smith of Firedoglake explains a shameful situation… Here are some real family values: Americans who live on minimum wage have not had an increase in that pay for ten years — a decade at the same pay rate — while expenditures, especially costs on energy prices, have gone up, up, up. They are squeezing their budget every way you can think, just to survive, to feed their kids, to give them a decent home. And they are working their butts off — two and three jobs for each parent, leaving the kids hanging out quite a bit with grandma and grandpa, who get to enjoy their golden years by being permanent babysitters (who can’t afford both their prescription meds and food…but hey, who is counting…). […]</p>
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		<title>By: doug r</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212474</link>
		<dc:creator>doug r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212474</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t think the government is entitled to more than 50% of your income at any bracket, it just encourages more greed. However, putting an exemption at $1 or $2 million and THEN taxing the rest at 30-45% on some kind of flat or sliding scale seems fair.&lt;br /&gt;
This,  of course wouldn’t happen unless the minimum wage was raised to $7.50 asap AND then indexed to either true inflation or congressional salaries (including expense accounts)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t think the government is entitled to more than 50% of your income at any bracket, it just encourages more greed. However, putting an exemption at $1 or $2 million and THEN taxing the rest at 30-45% on some kind of flat or sliding scale seems fair.<br />
This,  of course wouldn’t happen unless the minimum wage was raised to $7.50 asap AND then indexed to either true inflation or congressional salaries (including expense accounts)</p>
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		<title>By: ecclOneNine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212346</link>
		<dc:creator>ecclOneNine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212346</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;TeddySanFran — thank you for your suggestions, and kind words.  Yes, I realize that there are legal ways to shelter some of this.  The first would have required a bypass trust by my father before he died, so he could exempt via the trust his exemptable portion rather than giving it outright to my mother, who would not be able to claim his exemption.  Currently, it is like 1-mill a person, but was only 600k at his death.  Then there are “gifts” to the children each year, which I don’t want to even take because, well… she may need it.  There may be other ways, I am not an expert on this.  For those that don’t know of these things, one can argue the point, well they should know — and today it’s much easier with information so readily available.  Not the case a few years back, though.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In my observation on this topic for quite a while now, this really will boil down to a philosophical, world-viewish kind of thing.  I personally fail to see what is so wrong with being able to give most of what I worked very long and hard for to my kids.  I don’t mind some of it being taxed, especially if the government is at all reputable, but not at numbers like 55%.  To say, well we all just need to start from square one in our lives, as I often hear on this subject seems to represent some other core view on life, which I find a bit inaccurate.  I started from square one, even though I may get a few hundred “k” in a few years.  To make ends meet, I wear clothes forever, drive old cars to death, sweat all summer, and freeze all winter, and by golly I pay a lot of taxes, too.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rayne, you say: “I don’t have a problem at all with paying estate taxes on something that I didn’t earn, that my parents earned — if that’s what it’s going to take to keep my kids educated, my roads paved, my stepson in Kevlar when he’s in Iraq.”  — Aren’t there other ways to tax for things like roads, education, etc.?  It’s not like this money hasn’t already seen itself peeled away a few times.  As for Kevlar, if the money already sucked down the sinkhole of corporate corruption hadn’t been such, they could have already provided enough Kevlar to build a Kevlar canopy over the entire country.  I fail to see how taking 55% of my parent’s sweat and toil, even times xx,000 of others is going to help these problems.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But, this is the core outlook thing.  I just don’t see it as a sin to pass on most of what one has to the next generation.  I understand that the tax was conceived to prevent families from getting too powerful.  No problem with that, just the numbers we are working with right now.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One question, why then do you apparently support doing an end around on it by gifting some of it away?  You say: “If we’ve accumulated enough to hit the threshhold AND we didn’t figure out how to gift most of what we earned …”  If you have no problem at all with these taxes, doesn’t it seem contradictory to find a way to avoid paying some of it?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My main contention is not opposition to the tax, or my mother’s estate ultimately having to pay some, or my estate either one day.  The thing that bothers me is how this topic is hurled around these various forums as one monolithic ball of seething vitriole.  Very few people apparently in the democratic/liberal political wing seem to be able to hold a reasoned discussion on this topic.  Very few even will respond civilly to anyone who is not utterly opposed to any relief from this tax at all.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;AND, on the right, the problem is the same — my gosh, if you are one iota FOR the tax, you are subject to being tarred and feathered in talkshow host one-liners, with no room whatever for any normal discussion of opinion.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TeddySanFran — thank you for your suggestions, and kind words.  Yes, I realize that there are legal ways to shelter some of this.  The first would have required a bypass trust by my father before he died, so he could exempt via the trust his exemptable portion rather than giving it outright to my mother, who would not be able to claim his exemption.  Currently, it is like 1-mill a person, but was only 600k at his death.  Then there are “gifts” to the children each year, which I don’t want to even take because, well… she may need it.  There may be other ways, I am not an expert on this.  For those that don’t know of these things, one can argue the point, well they should know — and today it’s much easier with information so readily available.  Not the case a few years back, though.  </p>
<p>In my observation on this topic for quite a while now, this really will boil down to a philosophical, world-viewish kind of thing.  I personally fail to see what is so wrong with being able to give most of what I worked very long and hard for to my kids.  I don’t mind some of it being taxed, especially if the government is at all reputable, but not at numbers like 55%.  To say, well we all just need to start from square one in our lives, as I often hear on this subject seems to represent some other core view on life, which I find a bit inaccurate.  I started from square one, even though I may get a few hundred “k” in a few years.  To make ends meet, I wear clothes forever, drive old cars to death, sweat all summer, and freeze all winter, and by golly I pay a lot of taxes, too.  </p>
<p>Rayne, you say: “I don’t have a problem at all with paying estate taxes on something that I didn’t earn, that my parents earned — if that’s what it’s going to take to keep my kids educated, my roads paved, my stepson in Kevlar when he’s in Iraq.”  — Aren’t there other ways to tax for things like roads, education, etc.?  It’s not like this money hasn’t already seen itself peeled away a few times.  As for Kevlar, if the money already sucked down the sinkhole of corporate corruption hadn’t been such, they could have already provided enough Kevlar to build a Kevlar canopy over the entire country.  I fail to see how taking 55% of my parent’s sweat and toil, even times xx,000 of others is going to help these problems.  </p>
<p>But, this is the core outlook thing.  I just don’t see it as a sin to pass on most of what one has to the next generation.  I understand that the tax was conceived to prevent families from getting too powerful.  No problem with that, just the numbers we are working with right now.</p>
<p>One question, why then do you apparently support doing an end around on it by gifting some of it away?  You say: “If we’ve accumulated enough to hit the threshhold AND we didn’t figure out how to gift most of what we earned …”  If you have no problem at all with these taxes, doesn’t it seem contradictory to find a way to avoid paying some of it?  </p>
<p>My main contention is not opposition to the tax, or my mother’s estate ultimately having to pay some, or my estate either one day.  The thing that bothers me is how this topic is hurled around these various forums as one monolithic ball of seething vitriole.  Very few people apparently in the democratic/liberal political wing seem to be able to hold a reasoned discussion on this topic.  Very few even will respond civilly to anyone who is not utterly opposed to any relief from this tax at all.</p>
<p>AND, on the right, the problem is the same — my gosh, if you are one iota FOR the tax, you are subject to being tarred and feathered in talkshow host one-liners, with no room whatever for any normal discussion of opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Mack</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212329</link>
		<dc:creator>Mack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212329</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;EPU I know&lt;br /&gt;
but&lt;br /&gt;
Here’s a really fiscally conservative idea&lt;br /&gt;
15% Flat Income Tax&lt;br /&gt;
Exemptions for dependants and primary residence.&lt;br /&gt;
(up to 1000/mo for renters or owners in 1992 when Jerry Brown would have made it a plank)&lt;br /&gt;
End&lt;br /&gt;
Finis&lt;br /&gt;
This has the added bonus of rendering a small number of the most counter productive people in America unemployed (Tax attorneys)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EPU I know<br />
but<br />
Here’s a really fiscally conservative idea<br />
15% Flat Income Tax<br />
Exemptions for dependants and primary residence.<br />
(up to 1000/mo for renters or owners in 1992 when Jerry Brown would have made it a plank)<br />
End<br />
Finis<br />
This has the added bonus of rendering a small number of the most counter productive people in America unemployed (Tax attorneys)</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212304</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212304</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Kurt — something like &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA&quot;&gt;ELIZA&lt;/a&gt;, yes?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kurt — something like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA">ELIZA</a>, yes?</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212279</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 19:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212279</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What we need is a concern troll automated comment generator…like those old rant generators from back when the internet tubes were young :)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What we need is a concern troll automated comment generator…like those old rant generators from back when the internet tubes were young :)</p>
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		<title>By: TeddySanFran</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212265</link>
		<dc:creator>TeddySanFran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 19:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212265</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, I had some fun at Jane’s expense on her Correction post last nite, my comment repeated here:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
Jane, I’ve known for a long time that your penchant for hyperbole and exaggeration would trip you up, and when I glimpsed the headline on this post, I knew your “blogger hubris” had caught up with you. Why can’t you report the facts on the ground right the first time — don’t you realize this kind of inaccuracy will cost the entire New Journamalizm Movement credibility?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you can’t report accurately the first time on the Lieberman campaign’s attendance numbers, we might need another blogger ethics panel.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Have you prostrated yourself before Kos so he might determine your Errrata Award?
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m not at all sure I could stay in “concern” mode long enough to finish even a short comment — clearly I slipped up in the above — but I’m willing to try.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I just hope the contest won’t get hurtful; that’s why I had to go off the rails, to ensure the audience that I &lt;i&gt;wasn’t&lt;/i&gt; changed into an underbridger.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I had some fun at Jane’s expense on her Correction post last nite, my comment repeated here:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Jane, I’ve known for a long time that your penchant for hyperbole and exaggeration would trip you up, and when I glimpsed the headline on this post, I knew your “blogger hubris” had caught up with you. Why can’t you report the facts on the ground right the first time — don’t you realize this kind of inaccuracy will cost the entire New Journamalizm Movement credibility?</p>
<p>If you can’t report accurately the first time on the Lieberman campaign’s attendance numbers, we might need another blogger ethics panel.</p>
<p>Have you prostrated yourself before Kos so he might determine your Errrata Award?
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’m not at all sure I could stay in “concern” mode long enough to finish even a short comment — clearly I slipped up in the above — but I’m willing to try.  </p>
<p>I just hope the contest won’t get hurtful; that’s why I had to go off the rails, to ensure the audience that I <i>wasn’t</i> changed into an underbridger.</p>
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		<title>By: egregious</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212238</link>
		<dc:creator>egregious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 19:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212238</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;pun–&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;hopping against hops?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(teetotalers)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pun–</p>
<p>hopping against hops?</p>
<p>(teetotalers)</p>
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		<title>By: Redshift</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212227</link>
		<dc:creator>Redshift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 19:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212227</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;egregious at 11:47: That’s a brilliant contest, but we need to do it up front (perhaps a Late Night thread?) rather than down here in EPU-land.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>egregious at 11:47: That’s a brilliant contest, but we need to do it up front (perhaps a Late Night thread?) rather than down here in EPU-land.</p>
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		<title>By: punaise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212208</link>
		<dc:creator>punaise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 18:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/07/29/the-par-tay-party-is-in-the-house/#comment-212208</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;egregious:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;ho-ping against hope?  :~)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>egregious:</p>
<p>ho-ping against hope?  :~)</p>
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