First? Rootz! Frootz!

HST
Ned
Fitz
Jane!

And I’m not even that much of a regular commenter.

The Japanese interment in concentration camps (which is what we called them until the term became less popular) has to be judged right there tragedy wise with Slavery and the Native Extermination, perhaps even worse because it happened so recently. And if all goes as bad as I think, it will probably happen to the Arabs sooner rather than later.

Raoul

Nobody covers these topics better than David.

A quick follow-up, the #’s impacted in the internment were surely a lot less than in slavery and native peoples, but I find it more morally repugnant that there are still people alive today who supported/condoned it, and probably still do. It just seems “fresher”, I’m not trying to “rank” tragedies, if you know what I mean.

Mr. Neiwert is one of the best and brightest stars in our progressive constellation. Very glad his work will be covered here. Thanks, Jane.

I have Neiwert’s blog Orcinus on my RSS feed — an important source of info on the ultra-right http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/

David does fantastic work. IMO, he needs all the exposure he can get.Orcinus is on my favorites list.

Blank Kludge, I left you a response to your comment #100 in the previous thread.

Nefarious:

Musta been male intuition sent me back there.
Bookmarked.
Thank you.

Any SF-area Firepups might want to take a ferry ride out to Angel Island State Park tomorrow – before the discussion on Sunday – and check out the Immigration Station.

Angel Island was the Pacific counterpart to Ellis Island, with a serious twist. Ellis Island was set up to process immigrants in, while Angel Island was designed to keep people out.

In the 1880s, with the passage of the Chinese Exclusion act, only certain Chinese could qualify for immigration. Angel Island was set up to process Chinese immigrants, and ships would dock here prior to SF to avoid having people “jump ship” and get around the system. Those who sought entry were kept at Angel Island until their immigration hearings could be held – with amazingly detailed and intricate questioning designed to trip up “paper children” of already emigrated Chinese.

Angel Island did not handle any of the internments, but was part of an institutional racism that made the internment camps possible. Well worth a visit, for anyone around the San Francisco Bay.

BK – found another one w/a 9-10 mention, just in case your male intuition didn’t kick in again. ;)

Raoul — it’s not the numbers, really, it’s the issue of race. Japanese-Americans were treated like non-citizens, as readily as any other persons of color in this country have been, like African-Americans whose votes have been suppressed, or Chinese-Americans who struggled with immigration and property ownership under the Chinese Exclusion Act, or now Hispanics who want to become Americans, challenged with timely handling of immigration applications today.

I live in a community here in Michigan that has had a very large number of German-Americans, even capitalizes on this for tourism. As a person of Asian heritage, you can imagine my discomfiture with this community’s investment in the dream of Bavaria, knowing that these people of homogenous race and ethnicity never worried about losing their homes during WWII. They have this lovely little fake Bavaria because they’ve ethnically steered anyone not of the ethnic group or race out of the area.

My family among them — and 30 years after WWII.

I’ve always been fascinated with the WWII internments; what a shameful, and little discussed chapter in our nation’s history. To think we’re basically one generation removed from that time is kind of scary. Hopefully I’ll be back from sailing this weekend early enough to catch the discussion.

OT – I just got off the phone with DeanFan84, who reported that they had the Kiss Float parked right outside the main window in front of “Bar”, Joe’s final stop of today’s tour. Sadly, an epoch-ending thunderstorm rolled in and they needed to move the float to save it.

They’re getting some coverage on the evening news, but I’d like to see stuff like video from the three appearances that Joe made earlier today which had only a couple people show up for.

That kind of image can really make an impact with the undecideds. And that Clinton commercial for Joe is running non-stop. It’s obvious that it will help Lieberman down the stretch. Worrysome.

Jane, it’s FDL Book Salon, isn’t it?

Re: FLD – The Lake was tired of getting third billing!

if you say it’s FDL, then FDL it is then! Thanks…

Farmer-Labor-Democrat — FLD — thats a Minnesota thing, aint it ?

We have a similar situation here in Washington State, the town of Leavenworth (I think that’s the spelling) that is North and West of Wenatchee. The whole town is Bavarian themed, they even got national chains like McDonalds to use different building plans there and everything (and usually they (McD’s) don’t change for anybody.)

But we also have an exploding Hispanic and Asian popualtions in the state generally so the contrast is getting more peculiar by the year. I don’t know, but I doubt that darker skin people are welcomed with parades there either, but I could be wrong. Certainly visitors probably won’t have a problem.

It is a pretty little town, if any of you’re ever in Washington state wuth time to kill it really is kinda neat to visit as it is nestled in the mountains. Best time is Fall or Winter.

And yes, it is all about race, which is why I compared it to those two specific instances.

Raoul

Wow – HUGE thunder cell overhead – pitch black – one cat hiding out and the other sticking very close. I can”t see him (tuxedo cat) but for his white paws. Using notebook! Yeay = another rationalization for buying this!

Does Ned need to get more ads up to counter the Clinton spliced endorsement? I just want one ad to ask “What about Iraq Joe? How’s it going? It is making America safer by increasing the number of terrorists in Iraq, and now Lebanon?”

However, anytime someone does mention Iraq, they had better be ready to defend themselves because they will attack any mention of Iraq. For fear is not a governing principle.

This reminds me of a book I read several years ago called Crisis In Bethlehem, by a local journalist in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. This was a book about the decline of Bethlehem Steel, once the second-largest steel company in America. It’s a microcosmic view of the decline of American manufacturing since the 1970s – the greed and stupidity of the managers, and utter obliviousness of the unions. Sometimes local authors can capture the essence of a subject in a way that people taking a national perspective cannot.

Speaking of weather – it will be hotter in MN than in Houton, TX. That is crazy. I have given up on my potted flowers. They were requiring watering 4X daily and they still were wilting between.

These flowers have given their all since May, so I will bury them with honor and replace with mums when the weather turns in later August. Assuming that it turns.

I know this was off topic, but fear and anger are getting to me so a picked a lighter (global warming) topic. :)

GrandmaJ’s got the right idea — from her lips to Tom Swan’s ear! Back-to-basics for the last ten days: Iraq, BushCo, Alito, the Kiss, Universal Health Care, privacy.

Also, some surrogate should focus on Big Pharma’s major investment in the Lieberman household, and the payoff for that in the well of the Senate (where Senators vote).

And, please Mr. Swan, be ready for the 527 ugliness that’ll come out of right field, I predict on August 3rd. Don’t wait a single news cycle to respond — it’s War Room Time, baby!!

Friends and family, friends and family, friends and family….

Even though I work at the time of each week’s book salon, can I just tell you how great it is that they occur, and that I can read the thread when I get home and see all of the great interaction and community that transpires? Same goes for the music and food thread. Great stuff.

That would be Houston, TX of course. [grumbling] I would blame it on my cat Elvis but right now he is staring at the bottom of the sink cabinet with great intensity. Probably some mouse seeking shelter from the heat.

me too, meta: FDL Book Salon is the only time my fiance and I have daytime downtime at the same time, so I miss the live event. But the comments — and especially the author participation threads — are terrifically fun to read, even afterwards.

Rayne –

In contrast to the German community you describe in Michigan, there *were* German-heritage communities that did indeed worry about losing their homes in WWII. The town in which my bilingual grandparents lived in Wyoming had a church burned for worshipping in German in the late 1930/early 1940s, and the whole question of “passing” became more than an academic exercise. Lots of churches put American flags in their chancel spaces at that time, trying to show that they were loyal Americans despite their use of the German language. Some times that worked, but other times they still were burned.

I’m not saying that race doesn’t matter, but the numbers involved make situations play out in different ways.

Hello from Hurricane Mills, TN! Met up with Christy Hardin Smith, the lovely Peanut and the fortunate Mr. Smith for dinner yesterday. Folks, Reddhedds diet is werkin’!

Ah, yes, GrandmaJ, the great equalizer: global warming.

;-)

Peterr — in this area, they were so overwhelmingly German-heritage and so tightly entwined in manufacturing that I don’t think they could have rounded all the Germans up to intern them without having repercussions on war-time production.

And then the “passing”…so easy to pick out Japanese-Americans.

TeddySF – I am worried. When the dems have led in polls before, the last 2 weeks the slime rains down like .. well slime. And we do not respond. We keep thinking that all the early work will pay off, but those paying attention the last week will hear Clinton and vote for Joe.

Dems are not known for the closing abilities. This is yet another test. Ned has different people and hopefully they are geared up. The constant Clinton ads are indeed worrisome. With Clinton’s voice, it says to dems – ‘no worry, be happy, vote joe’ every 15 mintues.

We shall see. But watch for Joe to come out talking about that ad that was mentioned that is not good.

Nefarious:

Yer righto. Ditto that, and Primordial O’s also.

gracias mucho (pasta interlude combined w/slow CPU loading = delayed response.)

Smart and informed (and witty) folks around this Lake, eh?

Rayne:

Go back one more generation, and you’ll learn that German-Americans were hounded pretty badly in WWI.

My grandfather lived in Michigan at that time, and the family finally changed their name from a very, very von German moniker to an Anglican name. Then they moved to another town. It was the only way people would stop harassing them. Some of the Germans had their Dachsunds and Schnauzers killed, simply because they were “german” dogs. Things like that happened all over the place during that war, although I will grant you it wasn’t the government-scale hatred that the Japanese faced in WWII.

I imagine some (not all) of that “German” heritage stuff is a result of what happened during WWI, pride to compensate for the shame that had been heaped on their people, for no good reason.

And if anyone wants to talk about towns were folks are railroaded PDQ, try Grand Saline, TX. Population: All White. By Force, if necessary.

Or it was as late as the 80s, when I lived in East TX.

Begging for moderation here I bet. Anyway…

Average price for regular gasoline 7/28/06 in 50 states and DC

$3.00 plus 24 states
$2.90 plus 20 states
$2.80 plus 7 states

Average national price: $3.010
Highest recorded national average price: $3.057 9/5/2005

Highest average price: Hawaii $3.365
Lowest average price: South Carolina $2.839

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.asp

Connecticut now has the second highest average gas price at $3.240.

Nymex Crude Future $73.15, down $1.39
Dated Brent Spot $73.40, down $1.51
WTI Cushing Spot $73.35, down $1.19

Several things today. This is the first day in the present cycle of gas price increases since the record post-Katrina spike where those states with $3.00 plus gas represent the largest category and now account for nearly ½ of all states. The $3.00 psychological barrier where driver resistance might be expected to high prices seems pretty much broken. We are now less than 5 cents away from the record national average price. Absent a spike, it will take us a while to test the record but we are now definitely in the ballpark. Other factors include that there is still plenty of summer left, oil producing regions remain unstable, and there are just no specific reasons for gas prices to decrease significantly.

Meanwhile oil prices continue to bounce around in the $70-75 range so while there is some variability they remain high. There is not really much more to say about them unless they start trading outside this range.

For Jane, I thought she would like to know that Holy Joe’s warmongering has been so successful that Connecticut now has the nation’s second highest gas prices. Lieberman’s response at his senate website:

http://lieberman.senate.gov/

is a link to

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

on tips to save gas.

He also released this statement yesterday 7/27/06 on oil company profits:

“While consumers in Connecticut and throughout the nation are feeling the sharp pinch of this latest spike in gas prices, our nation’s oil companies continue to turn larger profits than ever before. We cannot continue to stand by while big oil fattens its bottom line on the backs of hard-working Americans. With the legislation on the Senate floor this week, the Republican leadership could protect consumers from corporate misbehavior and begin to cure our crippling addiction to oil. Instead, Majority Leader Frist today blocked amendments that I had cosponsored to crack down on price gouging, make our cars more fuel efficient, and end our oil addiction. Unfortunately, the Bush Administration and many members of Congress still cannot seem to grasp what the American public now knows, namely, that we cannot drill our way out of this energy crisis.”

So let me see that’s a link and a press release. And as the press release clearly shows it is (as usual) not Joe’s fault but that mean ole catkiller Mr. Frist’s. I suppose this is to distract us from the speculative market pressures engendered by the war in Iraq, the neverending Israeli-Palestinian conflict, saber rattling with Iran, and the current crisis in Lebanon, all of which Joe supports wholeheartedly.

Moderation, it is!

not any more !

That was fast!

Grandma J:

I had a calla lily plant that had survived everything you could imagine, but this summer, I couldn’t give it enough water. It finally wilted and wouldn’t wake up again. I’m not much on plants, but I’d had this one for years, and always liked finding a bloom on it, when I least expected it.

as fast as a Katyusha !

CT Bob: To think we’re basically one generation removed from that time is kind of scary.

I’m not sure if removed is the right word. We pretty much have a newfound willingness to endorse the same principles. Goes from scarey to heartbreaking real fast.

Hi OFG, glad you enjoyed dinner with the Hedds. Please be careful driving back; I understand the heat is killer. Speaking of which, I was surprised to see (on the NewsHour) that Bubba is now Mayor of Fresno. That would be Alan Autry, who played Bubba on the TV series In the Heat of the Night, not the Bubba whose commercial for Joe is now flooding Connecticut. As to that, it seems to me that the “low information” voters at whom it is aimed aren’t necessarily going to vote in the primary. In fact, Ned could maybe turn it to his advantage. IIRC, Clinton said a couple of nice things about Ned, including that he would support Ned if he won the primary. A clever ad might make a little something about that, particularly if the candidate promised NOT to use that endorsement to robocall everyone and NOT to run the commercial every 15 minutes. Ned’s ad people are quite capable of making it funny and charming.

Drive by …

Dave Niewert Rocks

*ilson it’s DFL – Democratic Farmers and Laborers

Leslie thanks for that article you sent

L8r ;-)

Though the numbers were not really comparable, many Germans and German-Americans with U.S. residency were relocated to the South during the Second World War. In the case of my own great-grandmother, who was in her 70s at the time, the government demanded she prove her U.S. citizenship. Having no birth certificate, she was able only to tell them that she was born on Rose Street in Manhattan (NYC). Since there was no Rose Street in Manhattan, the government thought she must be some kind of little old lady spy because why else would she lie about where she was born. In her case, the slow movement of the government was a saving grace; she was still fighting them when the war ended. Forty years later, when I lived in NYC, I discovered that Rose Street did exist prior to 1882, at which point it was de-mapped by the building of the Brooklyn Bridge and its approaches.

Oh, and *ilson, in MN it’s the DFL. It grew out of a merger between the Democrats and the Farmer-Labor Party orchestrated, I think, by Hubert Humphrey. Dogfirelake doesn’t have quite the same ring as the current name, although Kobe would probably like it better.

Mary,
I just read your comment 12 on the Just Read These thread. It expresses my own feelings: what the heck kind of lawyer creates junk law to justify these crimes, and sends others out to commit them. They must be sociopaths. I wonder if making up legalese crap is grounds for war crimes indictments. Instead, I imagine their Federalist Society enablers will make them wealthy when they leave office.

“Bubba is now Mayor of Fresno” – yea it’s cooling off now … finally … it was only 104 where I live yesterday. Now it’s only 95 (cringe)

Really gotta run now

L8r

Just up on Atrios: Clenis

“So, Lieberman’s basing his entire campaign on how much the Clenis likes him. Aside from the obvious irony given Lieberman’s past I suppose we should enjoy a candidate trying to win a race based on the amount of manlove he’s received.” http://atrios.blogspot.com/

Mary — I wonder if Abu has considered that even if he can get Congress to immunize him and everyone else who followed his advice, none of them is ever going to be able to leave the country? War crimes violate international law, not just domestic law. As Pinochet discovered. Oh, and BTW, I think it is now absolutely clear why Bush wanted Harriet Miers on the Supreme Court. She was up to her pearls in the torture memos.

OFG -
Scores!

Starts a little bit back in OK, then doubles up in WV.

So much road, so few stops as notable, or honorable.

—
fyi – Bubba again. This time muting focuses attn on visual. They finesse the splices by showing (mebbe near the end, what I just saw now.) by cutting to (assumed to be in Bubba’s crowd, but no REAL visual evidence to that) of
1) 20-30 yr old white woman holding a baby.
2) mebbe late 30-early 40ish black woman (wearing a hat?) smiling/cheering(?)/clapping b/t Bubba’s fire ‘em up.
—-
So subliminal, ya might hardly notice, especially if you heart Bubba.
—
Mayor of Fresno? Anyone else on the ballot? l->
ugh

Harriet Miers was then and remains today one of the truly unmistakable harbingers of W’s total insanity and full-frontal wingnutiness.

While I understand the plight of German-Americans — the same kind of challenges that immigrants of Irish, Italian, Jewish and other ethnicities faced as they arrived, complicated by wars — these people “became American”. Nobody questions them today about their loyalties, even though many in my neck of the woods still speak German at home.

Ask the members of non-white groups who came to America; “becoming American” is an on-going experience, even generations after the first family arrived. PBS had an excellent series, “Becoming American: The Chinese Experience“; in it, different Chinese-Americans talk about how they are still not perceived as Americans solely because of their appearance. Japanese-Americans have had a very similar experience; even 60 years after WWII, they still receive the “becoming American” attitude.

The little Bavaria that creeps me out so much is now very much all-American, swarmed with white Americans of all ethnicities — but in which no black, yellow or brown-skinned Americans are welcome. Shocks me how very closely these folks have cloned the very thing some of them or their families fled.

I’ll add one more point:

Vincent Chin.

He never “became American”.

BarbaraB -

If that’s the case, the Lamont camp should point out the hypocrisy.

——————–

I’ve been reading back threads and was very disturbed to read about an ad being run in CT connecting Lieberman with the increase of Neo Nazis in the military – funded by “liberal bloggers.”

The tactic certainly seems very Rovian, particularly in the timing. And what bloggers who frequent FDL, Kos, DU, etc. refer to themselves as “liberal bloggers?”

I do hope the Lamont campaign gets on top of this quickly and finds out who is really behind it.

I consider myself a “liberal blogger” as well as a “fiscal conservative.” In other words, whatever Bush is not.

Masaccio – you said it with more brevity and coherence. It makes me so furious and it has ever since the AG 2002 memo came out. The %^#*$@! media completed ignored the big story* and instead only reported the most innocuous thing in the memo, the “Geneva conventions quaint” language.

The damned memo discussed liability under the US War Crimes act for WAR CRIMES and all they talked about was whether it was “quaint” to discuss messhall rights of detainees and soldiers. I still don’t get it – how that memo hits the light of day and anyone would work for those solicitors and peddlers of war crimes, as if it didn’t matter.

But it is a question now of where we go, isn’t it? Better to have immunizing legislation than to have knowing and know war crimes and war criminals with a DOJ and populace that will never pursue them? At this point, is one option any less damaging to the country than another?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
*Gonzales ADMITTING in the memo that a) they were all on the hook for war crimes under domestic statutes and needed to make something up, and b) that the military was warning tht things — like what happened at AbuGhraib, Bagram, in the “buy ‘em and send to Gitmo” policies, etc. would happen and State – headed then by POWELL, agreed

OLC had no credibility whatsoever – no more so than if I put out a memo that Jane Hamsher can authorize war crimes violations. But they didn’t care – they weren’t going to jail; the President wasn’t going to jail; the President could pardon anyone he decided to make a criminal. The country could live with it – and have its best parts die with it.

At least someone, somewhere, is deciding maybe they should at least consider the peril they have so recklessly chosent to foist on others. Too bad the nation doesn’t get a shot at being immunized from what they did to it.

Mary @ 5:32

Why isn’t there a sense of honor (I know — wrong country now)? I’m sure they’ll all be taken care of later by their “friends” somehow.
But, Cyrus Vance resigned. The late British Minister (Robin Cook?) resigned over Iraq. During Nixon’s Saturday Night Massacre, there were several resignations. In this White House they advocated torture and no one (who would have had a public influence) resigned. And a large minority of adults in this country stll think these yo-yos have high moral values? Sorry about the rant but the logical/moral disconnect just gets me every time I think about it.

Had the opportunity to interview David about this great book on KDVS 90.3 FM in Davis last June

Also posted this review of Strawberry Days if anyone is interested.

Two excerpts:

[Through the diverse experiences of people like Tom, Kazue and Rae Matsuoka, Cano and May Numoto, Toguro and Ed Suguro and others, such as Seichi Hayashida, Neiwert reveals the complexity of the internment as lived by individuals. Some, like Tom Matsuoka, acted quickly, getting himself and his family out of the camps by agreeing to work as agricultural laborers in Montana, where workers were in short supply. His daughter Rae described initial conditions there:

I know that when we went out there to live, and we went up there where the farm was, and he took us to where we were going to live, I wonder what my mother must have thought. There were two rooms and seven of us. One room was the bedroom. We had three little beds and a crib-like thing. We got no heat with that room. And the other room was where Ma did the cooking. And she would try to mop that floor, because she was so fussy, she would try to mop that floor and it would freeze.]

And,

[But the book is valuable for social insights beyond the internment. For example, Neiwert confronts the corrosive consequences of racism, frequently in unpredictable ways. For example, Nisei uncharacteristically spoke with him about how they were sometimes embarrassed by their Issei parents during the prewar years, people who either did not or could not conform to emerging white middle class norms:

I almost died when when I found out that one of my teachers had visited my parents to let them know how well I was doing in school. In those years, if you made honor roll or got a special recognition . . . , instead of writing a letter, they would visit home to bring the good news. Well, I just about died. I mean, of mortification, when I found out that this one teacher [had visited]. I said, “you didn’t feed her anything” and she says, “Yes”, yes she did. She had served sembei and those dried cherries and, oh my God–tea, not coffee!]

This book is about far more than the internment. The book also describes the flowering of an immigrant culture over several decades that was brutally destroyed by it. It reveals the extent to which prominent whites economically benefitted from exploiting them, and, ultimately, interning them and taking their land for development.

And, if you didn’t already know that Scoop Jackson was a bigoted scumbag, you will after reading the concluding chapters of this book.

Highly recommended for both content and the rigorous fidelity to a style of storytelling that puts the participants in the forefront and the writer in the background.

David Neiwert is an excellent writer. His contributions help understand the racial and class prejudices held by white america. His previous articles on fascism “Rush, Newspeak and Fascism” Friday, July 25, 2003 (PDF)
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2…..645476424/ should have been a wake-up call for everyone.