As always at the Book Salon, please limit your comments to the discussion at hand. If you have other things you’d like to discuss, feel free to do so in the previous thread.

Dear Mr. Soros:

Thank you for all your efforts promoting democratic ideas across the globe.

Like you I’m a refugee from Eastern Europe (Bulgaria, 1979) and have often wondered why Americans who live in a ‘open society’ have so little understanding of it. Or as you point out “…and even less commitment to it”. It’s a complicated subject that ties directly to why it’s so easy to sell lies like ‘the war on terror’ to many.

For me the best way to remedy this is for someone like you to create a new major network to counter Fox. I think the media is one of the most effective ways to spread ‘open society’ ideas. Since networks are entirely owned by corporations, journalists have very little room to report the news accurately or counter WH propaganda. With proper management, we could see a new crop of investigating journalism.

Have you considered creating a new network or a new newspaper? (it will be awhile the blogs can replace traditional media)

What other progressive capitalist venues can be there to help send the right message to a large audience?

Thank you – Kalina Ivanov

Mr. Soros – thank you so much for joining us today to discuss your latest book. It was an intriguing and impressive read, and a much needed start to a conversation that desperately needs further exploration on so many fronts these days.

The Global War on Terror is being fought at an imbecilic level by the Bush Administration, which has consistently, it seems, selected the wrong choice on just about every turn that has come up in its twisting path. It seems to me that economic support for the hopeless and angry in societies that breed fear and hatred would be a good start, let alone reaching out in terms of human rights and education and other means of support that lift up the people who are turning more and more to the ideology of hatred as a means of gaining any measure of respect, albeit a false one. Surely George Bush has been apprised of foreign policy initiatives that have had longer term success on these issues, and yet he consistently has chosen a path of exclusion and war rather than inclusion and peace. The neocons in this Administration have again and again promoted failed policies that exacerbate the threat posed to the US, and their failures breed more and more hatred toward us. (The current crisis between Israel and Lebanon being no exception.)

Who, in your opinion, has come up with ideas for better solutions? For better security on a long-term model rather than false short-term fallicies?

My question for Mr. Soros, which I have seen echoed elsewhere, is this:

Given the media’s near-absolute control over the narrative, and even the very perception of reality and history, why haven’t you used your money and resources to build a media counterweight to Fox News and, well, everyone else? Is it that it’s something mere money is not sufficient for, or because you feel a left-wing voice (or even an objective one) screaming back counterpoint at the right-wing voice would not be useful or healthy?

Thank you very much for participating in this chat, by the way – I’ve been looking forward to this all day.

Mr.Soros, thank you for spending your time here today. I am a great fan of The Open Society and Sir Popper. I regret that I have not been able to read your book yet as David Miller’s latest explorations of Critical Rationalism, “Out of Error” and Hacohen’s “Karl Popper: The Formative Years” have kept me busy.

My question to you is how I might be able to help create The Open Society. I am a software developer and architect with a long history in the Open Source and Free Software movements although I am employed in the corporate world developing large solutions primarily for banking and insurance companies. In the little spare time I have, I am currently designing, albeit slowly, a system to help organize voters by political boundaries with functionality to make the efforts of groups like America Coming Together more efficient and decentralized, as well as available to any motivated individuals who wish to contribute to creating The Open Society. My vision is to create a networked software suite that will compliment efforts like MIT’s $100 laptop. Building upon Sir Popper and your own ideas that correctly designed institutions are the defenders and incubators of The Open Society, I have pursued Lawrence Lessig’s conjecture that “Code is Law”, thus the idea to create virtual institutions, hopefully with the same pedagogical value as your own Open Society Institutes. In short, I believe that a virtual institution implemented in software can allow a grassroots movement of supporters of The Open Society to realize our shared vision for lasting peace and prosperity. I believe that the current world of Liberal blogs are a start, I wish to see the potential taken to it’s rational limits and bypass the existing media infrastructure that keeps the citizenry from objectively considering solutions to our world’s problems.

I am most definitely guilty of having visions beyond my own resources so I would ask, are there current organizations that would be receptive to assisting in such an effort? My own efforts to navigate existing institutions has been less than fruitful. Again, thank you for your time today and your long history of championing Sir Popper’s ideas. I sincerely hope that the ideas that you have championed become the dominant basis for political discourse in this world. Also thank you for the opportunity to volunteer for ACT in 04, it was a pleasure spending Saturday mornings bringing better political ideas to my neighbors.

Thank you for discussing your text with us, Mr. Soros. And thank you, Jane, for hosting.

I’ve not read this text yet, although it is in my queue to read inside the next two weeks. I have, however, enjoyed the materials I’ve read at OpenSocietyInstitute.org, Mr. Soros’ Soros Foundation-sponsored website wherein a number of inititives and think-tank-like efforts reside. I encourage FireDogLake readers to check out the site and learn about the highly constructive and progressive efforts that OSI supports — and I extend my thanks to Mr. Soros again for investing in OSI and in turn, our communities and our country.

Mr Soros, thank you for putting such a powerful argument forward, and for making many seemingly unrelated topics cohere: global warming, resource curse, energy usage are all interrelated and I found it energizing and exciting to read your book.

I was also very energized to see your discussion of market fundamentalism, it’s relationship to globalism — and how neither adequately addresses the very serious issues raised by externalities (in which pricing does not fully encompass the true costs of a commodity).

Do you find this notion of “externalities” is not at all understood by those who hold views espousing market fundamentalism?

Thanks also to Jane and FDL for hosting!

I’ve been looking forward to it all day too, Eli. I actually liked your comment from last week:

This covers two huge problems in one comment: One is the media’s lack of interest in presenting the truth; the other is a pervasive belief that America is virtuous by definition, so anyone who says America is doing bad things is a crazy unpatriotic America-hater.

That’s decades of baggage in need of overcoming right there.

Thank you for being here today. Is there an answer to counter all the disinformation. As you know, the attention span of the American populace is about two days so it’s easy to lob a big lie out there and by the time it’s disproved it’s old news.

Hello, Mr. Soros and welcome to FDL!

I remember in 2003 and 2004 when the White House Spin Department’s talking point was “war footing”, as in, “We’re putting the nation on a war footing” and the thing that struck me was that in wars prior to Korea and Vietnam, for the United States to go to war, that meant that the entire population was mobilized. Factories stopped making cars and started making armaments and ordnance.

My question is whether you see this kind of mobilization in America’s future. The NeoCon talking heads have been going on for weeks about how the conflict in the Middle East has marked the onset of “World War Three”. Do you feel that there is a risk that the policies instituted by the Bush administration have created a situation where this is possible?

We were sold war at one point in that it was “good for the economy”. Remember that old saw? I don’t see how war as it is being waged in the “war on terror” could possibly be good for the economy unless you’re Dick Cheney. How does this square with war as it is waged today?

Do you really believe that America is unwilling to face unpleasant reality? It seems to me that a part of that equation is that Americans work harder and harder with less “free” time and more and more demands on their time, such that they have become not so much unwilling as reliant on a media that does no longer fulfills its function of supplying information.

When the media and every voice in government are “on message” then what alerts working America to the fact that the message is skewed?

Mr Soros,

I agree with your foreign policy views, in particular the need for strong international institutions. My question to you is this;

People with views similar to yours are portrayed in the media, especially on TV, as “soft on terrorism”, “weak on defense”, “defeatists”, etc. Given the fact that most Americans still get their news from TV, how can progressives get their views across without a hostile, neocon media filter. Most political shows on TV are heavily tilted to the right, with 2-3 foaming at the mouth neocon ideologues “balanced” by a wishy washy centrist. This is a huge challenge for progressives. How can they influence the foreign policy debate in a hostile media environment?

Internet is making a difference but TV is still the main source of news for most people.

Welcome, Mr. Soros. As an observer from the north, I am perplexed by the complete failure of the press and the body politic in the US. Media Matters does a good job of documenting the most egregious lies and slanders, but it doesn’t make a dent in the MSM’s bizzare unwillingness to ask any hard questions or, more significantly, its open hostility to those who do (Feingold, Dean, Gore, bloggers…um…you).

Mexicans took to the streets to try and demand a recount, Hispanic-Americans massed in the tens of thousands to protest an immigration bill, but mainstream America seems willfully uninterested, passive, impotent as the country drifts into autocracy and facism. Coulters book still sells out, O’Reilly still racks up astounding numbers, and AM radios across the country tune in to Rush.

Is America merely getting the government it deserves, or is there some other reason? Why aren’t there general strikes, boycotts, or at least some kind of organized backlash? Other countries rise up against the drift of their government. Why is America (outside the blogosphere) so silent?

Mary 10 — I think that very much goes to the notion outlined in the book of the “Feel Good Society.” (Or as Digby says, the notion of America as a new Sparta is a joke — we’re a nation of flabby shoppers.)

Carter said we had to tighten our energy belts; Reagan said don’t worry, be happy. Reagan won. One of Ned Lamont’s assertions is that after 9/11 there was a moment when the nation would’ve pulled together to conserve energy, but that spirit was squandered by George Bush and his “war on terror.”

I would argue that the willingness of Americans to “face reality” will be concomittant with the deconstruction of this false metaphor.

Jane, I certainly don’t want to go OT, but would like to point out that it appears cjohnson @ 5 and I have similar views — he also mentions Lessig’s “Code Is Law” (which is related to legislating the free flow of ideas and information).

Perhaps to keep it on topic, I could inquire whether Mr Soros and his foundations have much experience in the Open Source software movement? I agree with cjohnson that there are possibilities for Open Source software to lay the infrastructure for some of the NGO and civil society activities Mr Soros references in his book.

However, I realize Mr Soros has many obligations, and would not expect him to be familiar with this movement — but if he is aware of it, I would find his views of the (international) Open Source software movement interesting.

cjohson at 5 – I am putting a note for you at the previous thread re a linux project I am involved in

Hello, Mr. Soros. So interested to see how others respond to the “war on terror” myth you effectively deconstruct in this book. I got so much out of it, myself. It’s a totally wrong way to go about thinking in the modern era. As we look across the Middle East today, Bush’s “war on terror” has proved an erroneous notion.

Also thanks to Michael Vachon who is helping Mr. Soros today. We appreciate both of you being here.

Carter said we had to tighten our energy belts; Reagan said don’t worry, be happy. Reagan won.

I think Americans are willing to heed a message of “We must all make sacrifices in a time of crisis”, but they *prefer* “don’t worry, be happy”.

Although I am a bit surprised that they’re so willing to sacrifice their privacy and civil liberties – that’s not the kind of sacrifice the government usually asks for (then again, I guess they didn’t).

OT with apologies

Can somebody go fix the previous thread?

There’s an error that takes you to a (really cute) picture of a kitten if you try to refresh.

Thanks, and thank you Mr. Soros for all you do and for being here.

I loved some of the metaphors in the book. The comparison of power in society to a game of paper-scissors-rock was perfect. And some sections show how supposedly complicated situations can be explained clearly and simply in a short time. The discussion of domestic power politics in Iran is an example.

Eli 19 — my opinion has always been that people have successfully been convinced that it is only the crooks who are giving up their many civil liberties, and that they had too many any way. One of the great successes of the right wing noise machine, facilitated by the “war on terror” TM.

my opinion has always been that people have successfully been convinced that it is only the crooks who are giving up their many civil liberties, and that they had too many any way.

Absolutely – “You only have to worry if you have something to hide”. It’s part and parcel of the belief that *everyone* we’ve detained, tortured, and murdered was a terrorist, so it’s okay. Presumption of guilt is virtually their entire premise.

Recent events in the Middle East represent a significant escalation. The war on terror has turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy. What had been a false and misleading metaphor has turned into a real war. We have the Sunni insurrection and the Shiite death squads spawned by the occupation of Iraq, Hamas spawned by the occupation of the West Bank, Hezbollah spawned by the occupation of South Lebanon, not to mention other trouble spots such as Somalia. What more evidence do we need to show that the war on terror has been counter productive. Killing and mistreating civilians creates victims who turn into perpetrators.

The aggression against Israel is real and Israel has an unquestioned right to defend itself and remove Hezbollah from its borders. But using excessive force against civilian targets is counter productive and will have severe adverse consequences. While we must allow Israel to defend itself, unquestioning support for its actions will prove harmful to Israel. I am deeply worried.

Mary 2:13pm — to no small extent, this is where the internet and sites like FireDogLake change the dynamic of an “on message”, bought-and-paid-for corporatist media. One of the problems confronting us has been the lack of a social infrastructure; we’re all of us “bowling alone” in the physical world, and the corporatist media reinforces this with its selling of fear. But in this virtual agora, we can join as a community and check the messages’ validity and veracity.

Mr. Soros’ Soros Foundation, via Open Society Institute, has been facilitated by the internet, but what has been missing is a community that actively promotes and advocates its efforts in such a way that a tipping point “catches”, encouraging a self-perpetuating energy. In other words, even some of the most promising organizations have been “bowling alone”; it’s time for us to connect the dots, provide a network of resources and energy, to make change happen. (Note in particular the media intitiatives at OSI — what would you propose, for example? how could we FDL’rs fit in?)

Eli at 24:

Absolutely, it ties into the fact that most Americans know very little about the Arab world and it’s easy for them to assume that everyone detained is a terrorist…

To the person asking about media– If I owned a network such as Fox I would be no better than Murdoch

Mr. Soros, I believe the url you’ve entered into your login has a typo (or 2).

I fixed Mr. Soros’ url.

thanks

Thanks to Mr. Soros for the extraordinary insights from his philosophical journey and his extraordinary world experience.

In the book, you frequently end a totally depressing chapter with “but I’m still optimistic.” But you’ve essentially concluded that we cannot count on the Democrats to rise above their own fears of being ostracized for challenging the wrong “war against terrorism” metaphor, and you do not cite them as major champions of the institutions and policies needed to rebuild and sustain an “open society.” I suppose there are some, but I think you’re right; they are a near silent minority.

You note also that since Reagan (or before), American politics are designed on selling us the “feel-good” society, and Reagan’s sunny optimism is recalled by the press as his greatest asset as a “canonized” President. You mention McCain once, in the hope that he can be “independent” enough to state the counter metaphor, but of course, the Senator is even more enthralled with the neocon war on terror and fighting it with more troops in Iraq than Bush is.

If the two parties are thus incapable of leading us out of this nightmare, then doesn’t it make sense to treat America as a nation in or about to enter an authoritarian state? Your recipe of what you’ve done successfully in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union then applies.

In other words, how can we ask America to play the responsible role you advocate in the world — the necessary super power that behaves in the international interest — without first reclaiming the country and rebuilding all the institutions of an open society right here? Isn’t that what you’re saying, in the final analysis?

To the person asking about media– If I owned a network such as Fox I would be no better than Murdoch

Can you elaborate on this? What if you owned a network *different* from Fox, with controls in place to ensure fair and accurate (but aggressive) reporting? Even a nonpartisan, objective news network would be a powerful counterweight to Fox and all the rest, and I don’t think it would cost you your soul.

Or do you believe that such a beast is simply impossible to create?

Mr Soros,

Although I’m anxious to read your responses to any of the questions above, I’m most curious about your thoughts on the current crisis in the mid-east and how it relates to this concept of a “war on terror.”

Newsweek’s story today about the G8 conference puts it this way:

While Washington was sleeping the night before, yet another corner of the Middle East had erupted into violence, after Hizbullah launched a deadly ambush on an Israeli patrol. The summit, which was supposed to focus on Iran’s nukes and Russia’s democracy, had just been hijacked by the war on terror.

Has the decades-long Israel/Palestine issue, with all its complicated moveable parts, been successfully absorbed into Bush’s manichean GWOT? The implications of that seem very grave.

Welcome, Mr. Soros.

I am behind in my FDL reading and thus have not yet read The Age of Fallibility, but it is on my list. I enjoyed readint your The Bubble of American Supremacy, which I rushed out and bought the same night I heard you discussing it on TV.

I am here today mostly to listen.

Eli #24: “You only have to worry if you have something to hide”. But when that attitude is coupled with an approach to power that depends on an embattled righteous hero (which is always ‘us’) fighting demons, it becomes unstable. More and more unsuspecting people have to thrown out into demonhood. Look at what is happening on the reactionary wing now. All deviationism is being punished in increasing strident terms. That is how, slowly, everything becomes political and people who thought they had nothing to worry about are caught up. People who thought there were too many rights, suddenly find that they have too few.

What had been a false and misleading metaphor has turned into a real war.

It really has. The hijacking of the discourse, of language itself by the right has had diastrous consequences.

While we must allow Israel to defend itself, unquestioning support for its actions will prove harmful to Israel. I am deeply worried.

I agree. One of the other successful hijackings has been dismissing those who would question Israel’s actions as being anti-Israel, much as those who question US actions are called Anti-American. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is because I support Israel and her continued existence, as I do the US, that I question decisions being made by the current leadership.

Equating either of these positions with being “soft on terror” is a bullying tactic meant to silence any kind of opposition. It is all too often successful.

Great to see Mr. Soros here. As a long-time anti-Drug War advocate (until 9/11 blew that off the front pages), I am long familiar with his generosity to progressive virtues.

I would like to second Kalina’s notion that we need alternative media, though you should not carry the whole financial burden yourself (if it is a burden; it could turn out profitable, though there are arguments to which I am sympathic for doing it non-profit. Whatever works, though). Here’s a notion I just came up with (work in progress). Maybe someone else has had a similar idea.

Let’s put together a more or less traditionally styled 24 hour news station that draws on the blogs directly – something lke the “Bloggers News Network”. We could have an editorial board that selects from or edits together items submitted by a pre-screened repository of bloggers. Bloggers could submit pod or video casts, but we could also have newscasters types for people who want to submit text. All the licensing issues and so on are dealt with in advance, so when items hit, it is “all systems go”. Also, methods for instantly licensing material submitted by people who happen to be local to specific events (like national disasters or wars). We could use networks of recommendations to get a large body of pre-screened people, but also disclaimerize material in which we cannot be 100% confident. I see the following attributes:

1) We could produce hard news, I think, just as quickly as CNN, etc. We could, however, surpass them on background and presenting a variety of perspectives. Probably also in entertainment value accruing from satire and such. Local bloggers in extreme situations could also surpass them for footage.

2) Probably we could not do as well at celebrity gossip and suchlike fluff. I say don’t try. I think it is a myth that fluff is necessary. Fox probably has the least fluff (and the most outright BS) of any major for-profit television news source.

3) I think we could do all this much cheaper than the majors. Bloggers could get some money whenever their stuff is used, according to pre-agreed arrangements. It would be nice. But it needn’t be the kind of money the biggies spend. And saying, “Hey, there’s been an Earthquake in Belize! Who has footage?” is much cheaper and faster than flying crews in.

4) We can’t match the mainstream for privileged access to the administration, but once they report whatever has been leaked, well, it’s public, so we can present it too, from our own perspective.

5) We could start just sending this out on the web, and get it into broadcast as we can. Gives us a chance to iron out the bugs, and means we could attract more money as we prove ourselves.

What do people think?

Welcome, Mr Soros –

At every opportunity, I point out that your Civil Society investments in Eastern Europe did as much to end Communism as anything done by the Reagan Administration — and if the impact is considered by the dollars invested, you had 100 times the impact with the photo copiers you purchased.

Other commenters have noted the adverse influence of the Right Wing control of Corporate Media.

The problem can be seen in what happened to Robert Parry; he accurately reported on the Central American Death Squads, and other effects of the Iran Contra policies — for his pains, he was shown the door at Newsweek.

The blogs in particular and the internet in general provide a cost effective counter balance to the Traditional Print and Broadcast Media, but we do so with limited support and uncertain impact on the paid media.

Have you considered directing resources of the Open Society Institute, to support alternative media in the USA, and websites like Robert Parry’s Consortium News?

http://www.consortiumnews.com/

Equating either of these positions with being “soft on terror” is a bullying tactic meant to silence any kind of opposition. It is all too often successful.

Anything less than maximum force and brutality is considered “soft” now. Amazing that the discource could ever become so depraved.

challenging a “false metaphor” such as the “war on terror” is so threatening to everything the power structure of the Bush administration has been erected upon that to do so will certainly draw down the full force of the right-wing bullies.”

Yes. Right-wing bullies. And let’s also talk money because Mr. Soros derives some respect on the right because he has made a lot of it.

Right-wing bullies are paid full time to be bullies. Paid by think tanks funded by corporations. Paid for by advertisers that see bullies as a way to reach consumers.

When we say media we must also include now the 13 million Rush listeners and 12 million Hannity listeners who are the ones pushing the charges of “anti-Americanism” and “soft on terror” to anyone who disagrees.

Multiple methods are underway to address these bullies but in their medium good speech does NOT drive out bad. They literally own the airwaves. The work of Media Matters is very important, but pushing back at them is often rendered ineffective when they are supported by millions of dollars and the full force of a Republican Noise Machine as Brock as documented.

What is the best way to beat down their dangerous, destructive narrative when most of the tools in the past (like the fairness doctrine and diversity through multiple ownership rules) have been removed?

The two ways to take down a “false metaphor” are either by (a) replacing it in one fell swoop with a spectacularly effective true metaphor, or (b) eroding it, day after day, week after week, with relentless public questioning and critique. Wanting to follow in the “Deep Throat” school of journalism, winning success with one big story, many reporters seem to wait and wait for choice (a) above to fall into their laps. That might be more spectacular, but choice (b) is perhaps more likely to happen – if someone would set up and actually give it a try.

Dan Froomkin, on more than one occasion, has expressed his disbelief that no major media outlet has a reporter on the “terror beat.” The media senses, I think, that the war on terror doesn’t begin to describe reality. They fear being painted as partisans, however, and either pull punches or hold back. (How long did the NYT sit on their NSA eavesdropping story? Over a year? But I digress . . . ) At some level of the company, the editors are also afraid of the wrath of shareholders/stock brokers/money managers. Rock the boat too much, and the advertisers will bail, the subscribers will vanish, or the viewers will click away.

NEWSFLASH #1: Don’t rock the boat at all, while you show us the latest hunt for the missing white women, and you won’t have to worry about the advertisers, subscribers, and viewers either. “No news here” is no way to run a news operation.

NEWSFLASH #2: It’s not too late to back off from newsflash #1.

There’s nothing better for restoring a damaged reputation than a little contrition and penance. “We missed it on the run up to Iraq. We missed it on the ongoing end runs around the constitution. We missed it on those stories and a dozen others – but we’re not going to miss it again. Meet the folks on the terror beat.”

Props to the Boston Globe for going after the signing statements, day after day after day.

Props to FDL, for following the Valerie Plame scandal, day after day after day.

And props to whichever media outlet wants to step up next.

You’ve got a whole range of scandals to choose from: lack of accountability with regard to contracts to support the Iraq invasion, the failure of Congressional oversight of the executive branch, the effects of the outrageous legal views pushed by Addington, Yoo, et al, etc., et cetera., et f****** cetera!

So media folks: step right up – there’s no waiting. In fact, time’s a-wasting.

And for us non-media folks – we’ve got to hold them accountable, for not holding the White House accountable. Step right up . . .

Jane 15 @ 2:20 — “I would argue that the willingness of Americans to ‘face reality’ will be concomittant with the deconstruction of this false metaphor.”

I’d say they go hand in hand. As properly in awe as we all are at the Rovian message machine & its death grip on the media, the polls show that reality is sinking in — just as with Katrina, the mess in Iraq is unavoidable and undeniable.

The challenge for progressives/Democrats is to make reality our friend … to leverage it to pry people away from the War on Terror™ narrative (“Look at the papers. Look at the TV news. Do you feel safer?”), and to reinforce the notion that being reality-based is a good thing.

The underlying GOP sales pitch, regardless of issues, is for voters to put their trust in strong-daddy authority and “values” instead of the facts that are right in front of their eyes. The first step in reclaiming both the discourse and political influence is to make people realize that it’s OK to recognize the facts right in front of us.

Martin @39:

I like the idea of increased blogger input into the media, but I don’t think it necessarily needs to be 100% of the content.

george soros says
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:27 pm
Recent events in the Middle East represent a significant escalation. The war on terror has turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The painful thing is that this ironic turn of events was ‘prophesized’ by lots of commentators. While the White House and neo-con pundits predicted American soldiers being welcomed as liberators, and Iraq as the claim-stake of Middle Eastern democracy, there were lots of folks on hand, with plenty of bona fides, predicting exactly the outcome we are all now facing.

It’s why I once suggested, after days of watching Scott Ritter ignored and dismissed by the MSM, that…

There should be a blog/website solely to collate the real pundits who have been accurate, prescient, and both rigorous and thorough in their analysis and predictions.

The site could be called American Oracles and, as at Media Matters, it could be searchable by name (The Oracles) or by topic.

The idea would be to establish their bona fides as reliable authorities and trusted sources of information/predictions/advice by proving their track records with a one-stop-source for links.

It would be a non-partisan site and would include anyone whose record proved them to be worthy of the public’s ear.

If the site needed an edge, there could also be a list on “Non-Oracles” who had a proven record of being wrong – again from both sides of the aisle.

I know this information is out there on the internet and in the blogosphere, but I think it might be useful to be able to go to a single site and say, “Hmmm, I wonder what Al Gore’s track record is on all subjects?” and then scroll down through a list of links.

There is a lot of cogent analysis being done, but it is swamped by the bloviating of blowhards.

Is this a viable and useful concept, or is it already covered sufficiently by the current blogorati?

This is tangentially related to Digby’s comments and questions at comment #34…

In Chapter 6, where you discuss exploring alternatives to American hegemony in the wake of the disastrous Bush Administration policies that have weakened our influence throughout the globe, you point to the EU as a potential successor organization. I have noticed over the last few months, especially, that the cumulative failures of the disastrous Bush foreign policy choices have strengthened the European coalition. (And how ironic that the EU’s cooperation may increase as a direct result of the ineptitude of Bush and the neocons.)

The loss of influence – both in economic and philosophic terms – for the United States is disastrous for those of us who live here as a long-term political crisis. We often talk about the importance of the November elections in reversing course by helping the Democrats to win back one or both houses of Congress. But beyond that, what is the next step? And the next? How can we help to keep the conversation going about the need for change in America’s policies and a desperate need for long-term strategic thinking instead of short-term political gamesmanship?

The bottom line: is it possible to force a society which has acted like a child for so long to grow up and begin looking at itself and the world through the eyes of a mature adult? And if so, how?

Wow, that’s a lot of questions for Mr. Soros. We greatly appreciate your willingness, Mr. Soros, to catch as many of these as you can. As you can see, we have a very passionate, informed, engaged community here.

I’m curious about Mr. Soros’ comment that he would be ‘as bad’ as Murdoch’ (!) if he had a network. Quite an admission. But that is what some people have hoped for, including me -some counterbalance. I would like to hear Mr. Soros elaborate on that, and what an effective counterbalance to Murdoch and Fox etc would be.

Eli 33 and Mr. Soros

I, myself, am no more interested in having liberal news pushed at me than I am having corporatist-slanted news.

I long for accuracy and truth, where the truth can be ascertained.

There are thousands of stories out there, that can be told accurately and even interestingly, if someone just will do it.

One of the ways the Establishment Media controls things is by limiting what they do cover to such a very few subjects.

Over the front of the main building where I went to college, is proclaimed “Ye shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall set you free.”

I looked at this every day for five years, and I believed it then and I believe it now.

What can we do to get more Truth out there, especially on the televised media?

re: the metaphor of the “war on terror” — I have often pointed out that the phrase is a problem, since it means fighting against a method, a ‘means’ if you will, rather than an identified enemy or ‘ends’. Unfortunately, the MSM and the American people seem wedded to this misnomer.

Can you elaborate on what this country should be combatting? (hopefully, this is a softball question.)

Two points.
1. The “authoritarian personality” as discussed in John Dean’s new book believes in the status quo, a hierarchial society and is unwilling or afraid to listen to other information. So, trying to reach these people by reasoned arguments is ineffective. We need another approach, but I have no idea what it might be. (Neither do a lot of other people, judging from the number giving “advice” to democrats).

2. Much of the problems of the world these days can be traced back to the excessive use of resources and manufactured goods consumed by the US and other industrialized countries. We have not shown any willingness to scale back our life styles, even to the extent of raising taxes to pay for the current wars. As resources continue to become more scarce this imbalance can only lead to the need for an even larger military sector and the associated loss of civil rights at home.

We have to own up to our own greed, if things are really going to change.

like everyone i imagine, i remember every moment of that fateful day in september. i was near the end of my work day, and i could not wait to get home to hug my family. even though i was a thousand miles away from the event it impacted me deeply, and i knew america would change, forever. but i was not as much afraid of the perpetrators as i was this administration, and what they would do with the event.

i called my buddy, just a golf caddy, but a pretty bright guy, and his comment was “they are going to wire it all down” which instinctively i guess we all knew, and to some extent is appropriate, but i firmly believe secret government is bad. if i’m not mistaken one of al qaeda’s stated goals, i reckon the goal of any terror, is to get the population to “freak out” and act against their own interests.

any way i have not read your book george, it’s not likely i will until i find a job. and i don’t have a question, just wanted to add my 2 cents. thanks for speaking out about this. please keep doing that.

maybe i do have a question. how do we get our soul back? how do we make it clear that the raw sensitive emotion we all felt that day was used against us for cheap political gain, and to create what is increasingly looking like an authoritarian cult? which is to say, i do not support torture, or spying on private citizens, and i don’t want to live in an america that does. to me, that means the terrorists won.

Mr. Soros, I appreciate the integrity of declining to own an entire network outright, a la Murdock. But what if you just provided seed capital for a broader, probably non-profit, endevor? All of us have biases, so we need to keep a broad base?

Along the same lines as the question about creating a media conglomeration, I often wonder why the George Soros’ and Bill Gates’ of the world aren’t all over creating an alternative-energy giant? Someone is going to get very wealthy meeting our energy needs post-oil.

At every opportunity, I point out that your Civil Society investments in Eastern Europe did as much to end Communism as anything done by the Reagan Administration

I second this, I used to know someone who worked in the Moscow office and I have heard great things.

Also second CK’s sentiments about Consortium News.

Also, were you taken aback by the reaction to your support of Kerry and progressive organizations? I have to say I was truly shocked by the things said about you. You really were out there by yourself. Thanks.

We also can tie the War on Terror into the now calling this WWIII. When the talking heads went overboard with its WWIII meme

Silence on the “Murdoch” question so far, so I’ll put this out there. I’m assuming it’s a reference to the corrosive nature of power. We often fool ourselves into thinking “our” side can handle it. It can’t. The only answer is to keep it as attenuated as possible.
Mr. Soros, please correct me if I got that wrong.

Mr. Soros :: any comments on the Senatorial kerfuffle in Connecticut ? ( Go Ned! )

Katymine at 59 — I like the “Bush and Gingrich honorary Republican-sponsored WWIII,” but maybe that’s just me.

The Bush/Rice dallying re the current ME crisis is a perfect example of the collapse of the Bush metaphor that Mr. Soros predicts, even those chapters were written several months ago — before the major current Lebanese crisis and the major deterioration in Iraq. What seems distressing is there appear to be not major public officials in the US, either party, calling directly for the parties it simply stop the killing as a first principle. Arguments about past abuses and rights to defend against attack are always mentioned, but not this fundamental principle. Yet that is the basis for Annan’s UN intervention and appears to be the basis for the European Union’s response. Moreover, I’ve yet to hear any credible analysts in the US describe the scenario whereby what is happening now turns out well later. No one has explained how destroying the infrastructure and authority of the Lebanese government helps create a strong neighbor in the region capable of moving forward.

To add a thought to my post #56: the obvious foreigh policy effects of weaning ourselves off the oil spigot would be tremendously positive.

Eli at 45,

Thanks. Yes, there could be a mixture. I’m trying to develop the idea in pure form. Mixing it with more traditional approaches once it is concieved would be less difficult, I think.

You answered my question before I even asked it.

I think everyone who is looking at this from outside the neocon bubble are deeply worried. Condi Rice describes this conflagration as “birth pangs” which is a very odd way to characterize a situation in which the disproportionate killing of civilians is likely to create the very thing it wishes to eliminate. It’s birthing a monster.

I wonder if this GWOT metaphor might just be turned around a bit now. Instead of a “War on Terror” perhaps the reality is that we are now fighting a “War with Terror.” Considering events in Iraq as well as Lebanon and Israel, isn’t that more accurate?

There are a lot of questions here, and I don’t think I will be able to answer them all, but I am reading all the posts. Tea Leaves, regarding your comment on externalities, you’re right on.

Swopa — it is a sales pitch. Tell me again how I’m supposed to benefit from signing all my worldly goods over to you so you’ll protect me, Mr. Soprano?

*ilson — It’s my understanding Mr. Soros has been very supportive of Ned Lamont.

Martin Bento #39 I like it!

WOW. what a situation/opportunity we have here. Amazing. thank you to all participating. re: bentos remark… when cnn first went on the air, it was a total breakthrough in the whole idea of “news.” god, do we need such a breakthrough again. just some people speaking the straight truth- minus all the PR firms expensive baloney. COMMON SENSE. please.

george soros says
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:27 pm
Recent events in the Middle East represent a significant escalation. The war on terror has turned into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Mr. Soros, do you see a societal war-effort on the horizon? From what you see in global industry and the rising tensions around the world, is it within the realm of possibility that we will see the kind of hands-on war effort that our parents and grandparents saw in the world wars of the 20th century?

This is John Amato from Crooksandliars, welcome aboard Mr Soros.

The neocons are trying to hijack what’s happening in Lebanon and as you’ve seen-the nutjobs are calling for all out war with Iran.

So sad…

martin at 39:

I agree, it’s a good idea…

Speaking from Connecticut, it’s Jane and Markos who have upended our political structure here. We have gone from having a Fairfield U. professor with no political experience test the uphill waters against Lieberman, then having the blogs see our plight, to seeing Lamont surge against Joe in the polls.
The fight against the current structure must come from the ground up – because the Incumbency (hello, President Clinton and Barbara Boxer) will continue to protect itself.
Thank you Jane, and thank you Mr. Soros. The word is starting to get out.
By the way, Lamont’s Norwalk headquarters was filled today (Sunday) with young kids working the phones. The next generation.

This may be a bit of topic drift, but I don’t think the current situation can be really understood without reference to the eschatological ideas held by some of the extremists of all three major religions involved. As soon as Putin starting talking troops, I could hear the Christians going “here’s comes Magog!”. My biggest fear is the influence that has been gained by those who in fact want to end the world. And I think it is important that their ideas get discussed in the major media. They cannot be debunked without being discussed, and the silence reinforces their sense of being in a different reality, and therefore not having to be bound by a shared set of beliefs with the secular folks.

Charley at 55 — one of the things that I have found helpful on the days when I get so overwhelmed by the nastiness in the news — I do a google search in the images section of the world response to 9/11. And take a peek at all that support that we had from everywhere “we are all Americans now” from all over the globe.

Not only does it give me hope, in terms of where we could be in the years after the Bush Administration finishes, but it also stiffens my resolve. Because that goodwill was squandered within months by the neocons — and that, as much as anything else, strengthens my firm need to boot these people, and their enablers, from office. If it is the last thing I do.

On Open Source Software: my foundation has an information program and they are very interested. You can find out more by visiting http://www.soros.org, the foundation website.

Digby @ 64 – I’ve always thought of it as a war with terrorism. But if you look at the generals who oppposed Bush’s “war on terror” terminology, like former Joint Chief Meyers, he pushes back because he believes it suggests a military solution. Maybe the context of using the word “war” at all is where the problem resides. But at this juncture, since everyone has taken up the “war” campaign, it’s hard to know how we get out of it.

Christy Hardin Smith says
July 23rd, 2006 at 2:37 pm
(snip) The bottom line: is it possible to force a society which has acted like a child for so long to grow up and begin looking at itself and the world through the eyes of a mature adult? And if so, how?

An interesting start might be a full museum about and memorial to the victims of slavery. It has always seemed odd to me that there is a Holocaust Museum in DC, but nothing to formally acknowledge and document the abuses of slavery…and what came after.

How many Americans really know about the Jim Crow laws?

In the myth, American pregressed from slavery to segregation to civil rights. It might help if the mythmakers spent some time explaining how African-Americans went from freedom backwards to segregation over a 60-year period.

I think the “metaphor” that Mr. Soros addresses has sway because so little American history (even its 20th Century involvement with Bin Laden, Saddam, and the Shah) is acknowledged or explained.

So, start at the birth of the nation and begin to address all the past “metaphors” that have kept the culture, as Christy suggests, immature.

Digby @ 65

Amen!

You can even document the atrocities weapons of terror being used. Here’s a fast three, off the top of my head: torture of detainees in our control; extraordinary rendition to other nations; and
lack of any semblance of legal due process to sort out truly dangerous detainees from those innocents inadvertently swept up in a massive dragnet.

It’s a war with terror, all right. To paraphrase Monty Python’s Cardinal Richelieu, “Our two chief weapons are fear, surprise, and a fanatical devotion to Bush. No wait, our three chief weapons are . . . “

Please, we’re ready – more than ready – for something completely different.

I’ve always thought of it as a war with terrorism. But if you look at the generals who oppposed Bush’s “war on terror” terminology, like former Joint Chief Meyers, he pushes back because he believes it suggests a military solution.

I don’t really think “war on terror” is that unacceptable a phrase. It’s imprecise, but not completely inapt: We *are* in a conflict against an enemy who relies extensively on terror, and I think “war on terror” is an acceptable shorthand for that.

The problem is that that’s not actually the war we’re fighting. If anything, we’re fighting the “war on not enough terror”.

The Harper’s Stabbed In The Back article has been very interesting reading this week –

http://harpers.org/StabbedInTheBack.html

I’ve been struck by how durable and insidious this metaphor is — the Nazis used to mobilized Germany for a genocidal and ultimately self destructive war against their neighbors and the “Other” — the Post War Republicans used it in the McCarthy witch hunts, to demonize Democrats and Communists; the Bush Administration uses it to demonize those who dare to criticize the “War on Terror.”

I feel this goes to the innate psychological predispositions of humans — we are hard wired for tribal identity, which includes paranoid fear of outsiders and the “Other.”

Even within the Anti-Communist movements of Eastern Europe, groups like Solidarity gave people an opportunity for a tribal identity in opposition to the repressive state.

Here is the question — do we need to use group identities to counter the “War on Terror” group think, or can we overcome it with rationality?

Or do we need to do both?

Mr. Soros :: any comments concerning Valerie Plame and her lovely husband, the Ambassador?

Hello Mr. Soros. Thank you so much for writing this book (and for being here today). From the get-go, the title “War on Terror” has made me mad. “Terrorism” implies we must be afraid. I can’t live with that. It’s just … dumb.

For all the work you’ve been doing to make the world a better place…God Bless You!

The key, IMO:
We need to do the work to take back Washington, the States, and local government and BE the government, then change the “regulation” meme put out by the right wing. Some regulations are important and some things cannot be privatized if we’re to consider the common good. We need to rebuild the infrastructure of a great democracy. Fixing the FCC and removing corporate “civil rights” are the places to start. Our work, as the real government must never end.

Whew! Roll up your sleeves folks. We have work to do.

Taylor #78 – Perhaps if we could get our heads around the fact that “war,” per se, is obsolete in the nuclear age, we’d stop using it as a stupid metaphor for what is really social engineering (”on terror,” “on drugs,” “on behavior,” etc.) Then again, maybe its paucity of meaning is what causes it to be so casually misused…
I say we just stop saying it.

The Soros foundation has always operated by prompting citizen action through civic groups, educational programs, placing visiting profs and teachers in schools and universities. But that was done in to offest a moribund communist establishment. The Open Society people were the active ones with the new ideas.

In the US I think there is a moribund center-liberal political establishment (the people are moribund, not the ideas!). But hrere there is very energetic reactionary political machine that is expert at grassroots mobilization, or at something that looks like it. They have marketed themselves as being the innovators with the new ideas, the voice of the people.

How is the Open Society Foundation adapting to that different setting? Or do you disagree and think there isn’t much difference?

#32, Scarecrow–the answer to your question is yes. That is why I support the Democratic Party if I am not thrilled with their lack of clarity on foreign policy.

sorry, FDL…can you please fix the italics on #46. Thanks.

wesqpc @ 85 : Excellent question.

Mr. Soros @ 76: There’s a lot more information on the Information Program since the last time I visited. I’ll start working on my presentation tonight. Thank you again for your time and efforts.

I have a couple of interrelated questions that I would also like to throw out to the group, as well as to Mr. Soros.:

You spend some time in Age of Fallibility on nuclear proliferation issues and the threat that this poses to global security. Former Senator Sam Nunn of Georgia has worked with Sen. Richard Lugar on this issue quite a bit, and I am consistently astonished that their findings, especially with regard to the poorly secured nuclear stockpiles in the former Soviet Union and its satellite nations. Is it only the American media that is failing to grasp the importance of this issue? What can we, as individual citizens, do to push this to the forefront of national security discussions?

war is just such a barbarian answer to solving problems. as a mother i have been wracking my brain to find and suggest and encourage OTHER solutions to conflict than fighting FOR 20 YEARS now (w/ my first born off to college this year). and our government still thinks KILLING INNOCENT people and bombing bridges, airports and power stations IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. I AM DISGUSTED AND DEPRESEED.

Thank you, Mr. Soros. I found your emphasis on ‘externalities’ in pricing invaluable, particularly given your professional background.

It seemed to me that many of the problems you describe in your book originate (at least in part) from this pricing problem. Thank you for your feedback — and your book!

Mr. Soros,

I really seem to agree with alot of your viewpoints. I wish I could experience the world with your insight for just a day.

george soros @ 2:51 pm (#76) – Interesting site. It’s not updated very frequently. Sometimes people confuse that with lack of activity.

digby 2:45 pm — Doesn’t it strike you as odd, that “birth pangs” comment, coming from a woman who has no real knowledge of them, speaking for men who also have no ken of the same? It’s as if “they” knew they needed to sell this next phase of their Ever-War on women, using women’s words…

Taylor Marsh 2:52 pm — “War On Terror” still works, in as much as it is completely in line with the rest of the neo-conservative agenda. Like “Clear Skies”, “Healthy Forests”, “New Freedom” initiatives that have preceded the “War on Terror”. Pure Orwell, every bit of it.

Mr. Soros & Michael Vachon — don’t feel you must answer everything here, feel free to pick any one question and respond. Pick the one or two that move you most. Discussions in this kind of environment tend to be like free-for-alls, like 30 students asking a single professor 30 questions all at the same time; the professor goes with what is most compelling for the curriculum and ultimately the students.

Mr.Soros,
What do you say in response to those that say we can’t “cut and run ” from Iraq because…… “it would only make a dangerous world more dangerous” (a quote from an article by Fred Kagan).

Also can you give an opinion on the giant embassy we are building in Iraq, it seems like a huge project for a continuous presence there, is this playing into the hand of any particular group.

I certainly hope Mr. Soros will give some thought to how he could contribute to the creation of a truly “liberal” media, to use the Right’s ironic term, or of a truth-based media, as some have advocated here, without becoming Rupert Murdoch in the process. There must be some middle ground.

italics are fixed … refresh your entire page with F5

I haven’t yet read your book, Mr. Soros, but most certainly will. I’ve just finished watching the BBC series “the Power of Nightmares” – have you seen this? – and it looks to be in the same vein. The simple truth is all we need right now – understandable for the average joe. The whole driving force of this ‘war on terror’ is everyone NOT understanding anything…

I certainly hope Mr. Soros will give some thought to how he could contribute to the creation of a truly “liberal” media, to use the Right’s ironic term, or of a truth-based media, as some have advocated here, without becoming Rupert Murdoch in the process. There must be some middle ground.

As you may have noticed, we are desperate for it. Control of the media is very close to control of reality and history itself, as Orwell understood. I think the hunger for an objective, fearless, trustworthy media extends well beyond the liberal blogosphere.

Mr. Soros, thank you for work and dedication to human rights. There has been speculation from some, including Prof. Marc Herold, that the goal of the administration is to make Afghanistan an empty place. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I am saddened beyond words for the plight of the proud Afghan people.

Here is the question — do we need to use group identities to counter the “War on Terror” group think, or can we overcome it with rationality?

Or do we need to do both?

- ck – , I think we need both. There’s no other way than tribalism to reach some people.

Until this week when events in the Mid East got out of hand, I thought we could do a dual “unifying America” program by focusing attention on the actions citizens can take to combat global warming/become energy independent, similar the the environmental movement of the 70’s combined with the space race of the 60’s. The “Can Do” spirit, which these days seems so naive, used to motivate an awful lot of people. It’s one of the American myths we can use to our advantage.

The concept of ’subsidiarity’ has it’s origins in the Catholic Church, and is the fundamental principal of European Union law.
Subsidiarity is the principle which states that matters ought to be handled by the smallest (or, the lowest) competent authority. This concept is applicable in the fields of government, political science, cybernetics and management.

It is also found in several constitutions around the world (see for example the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution).

What the blogs have done, in coordination, is to provide an hitherto unavailable outlet to the population. We here in Connecticut are especially thankful that subsidiarity has taken hold, in many ways, thanks to Firedoglake.

There really is nothing we can do for the next 2 1/2 years against what the current government is capable (or not) of achieving.

Mr. Soros – thank you for taking part in the movement of subsidiarity.

Mr. Soros, I observe all of this as Awareness playing with concepts. There is a Now Age concept called the Law of One, i.e., “We Are All One”. It is exemplified by the open practice of the Golden Rule: Choose for others only what One would choose for One’s Self because it serves One to do so. I observe that the current administration exemplifies what was once referred to as Belial, One might choose for another what One would not choose for One’s Self for the advantage of self over others without consequence. This belies all connection of sentient beings. As the most ungracious man to ever occupy the White House, Dubya sadly leads the world in appreciating the very real way in which Awareness is served in the appreciation of the benefits of Choice.

Because Grace is the awareness that all choice generates benefit for purposes of appreciation, one might observe that gracious choices generate benevolence for sharing, ungracious choices generate instructive consequence that remind one that a more gracious choice was missed in the taking. Both benevolence and instructive consequence can be appreciated.

Our president, as a major proponent of Belial, disdains openness, truth, facts, benevolence, and ‘others’ in his pursuit of advantage for its own sake and preservation. Disdain is an ungracious choice with predictable consequences.
These days I wince every time someone uses the words ‘unintended consequences’, they clearly have missed an important connection. One only progresses with consistent gracious choices, as your own life so well demonstrates. How might we share this understanding by addressing the very real world challenge posed by what is a missed understanding of a basic informative principle? Aren’t these the simple concepts masked by the current dramas of the world? Is it really so hard to choose for others only what one might choose for one’s self?

Mr. Soros:

What Eli said at #100. Also, most of us don’t know each other in person and yet, we’ve all come to the same conlcusion – we need a TRUTH tool.

I really liked the book and gave it to my dad to read…

Christy 77 Not only does it give me hope, in terms of where we could be in the years after the Bush Administration finishes, but it also stiffens my resolve. Because that goodwill was squandered within months by the neocons — and that, as much as anything else, strengthens my firm need to boot these people, and their enablers, from office. If it is the last thing I do.

well thanx, it turned me into a voter. i’m not sure that’s going to be sufficient, but i’m actually prepared to go further. i’m really pissed off, i don’t like bullys using fear to manipulate people. which may explain why i don’t have a job.

it could get better, but first i think it will get worse.

To add to the above – what we can do is partipate as individuals, thanks to Firedoglake and the others who give us voice.

Taylor #77

I have never liked the “War on Terror/Terrorism” terminology. From day one, I knew that you cannot wage a war, much less win one, fighting abstract ideas or a warfare tactic.

Terrorism will never be completely defeated. That’s just a fact. Anybody could be a terrorist. That term itself is too vague.

But to echo what Soros said, this “war” has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. And if leaders in D.C. do not wake up to that fact and change course of action, we will be in this like the Hundred Years War.

As for Iraq, we need a political solution. The military has done its job.

One of the things that the U.S. needs to do is to abandon permanent bases in Iraq. If we didn’t, and we had forces stationed in Iraq, they would be under constant attack. This talk about using the Korean DMZ model is ridiculous. You’d only be inviting attacks on our forces.

Mr. Soros – do your fellow billionaires ever express any apprehension on recent developments? Do they all think they can keep buying their way out of the mess that is being created?

Mr. Soros, thank you for all you do. I have a question about your perception of Europe’s perception of us.

I spent this afternoon with a professor friend fresh back from her customary extended summer visit to Spain. She claims that her many Spanish friends understand that the Republicans stole our ‘00 and ‘04 elections, and that they therefore still hold the American people blameless.

“But your friends are intellectuals,” I said. “What about the rest of Spain — not to mention Europe?”

“No,” she said, “only a few of my friends are intellectuals. The ones I go back 30 years with aren’t, and they all understand this.”

Mr. Soros, what do you think? Is that your sense of European public opinion too? Or is my jet-lagged friend’s story merely another proof of Spaniards’ famous personal courtesy?

Should your perception agree with my friend’s, perhaps we aren’t as done-for as it usually seems . . .

As you may have noticed, we are desperate for it. Control of the media is very close to control of reality and history itself, as Orwell understood. I think the hunger for an objective, fearless, trustworthy media extends well beyond the liberal blogosphere.

Which is why it makes more sense to support free agents within the media than to open up one’s own branch of the media like Pox News.

What does it say about the current state of the media that two of the people giving us the best political commentary are comedians? Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart both boast some of the most informed and politically aware fans of any media figures.

Personally, I believe that more people need to be writing funny, intelligent books, even it it’s just to get our ideas out there. Look at the books we have succeeded with so far, The Daily Show’s “America”, Michael Moore’s “Stupid White Men” and “Dude, Where’s My Country?”. Those are the books whose sales figures rival that of Annthrax Coulter and Bill O’Reilly.

She claims that her many Spanish friends understand that the Republicans stole our ‘00 and ‘04 elections, and that they therefore still hold the American people blameless.

I think that the more times we elect and re-elect Republicans, it will continue to chip away at the goodwill towards American citizens overseas. I was actually pretty sure that Bush’s re-election, effectively endorsing everything he’s done, would destroy that goodwill for years to come, so I’m happy to hear it might not be too late (at least in Spain, anyway…).

Should Soros compete with Murdoch? In his book, I think Mr. Soros argues for a different approach — to reinvigorate the principle that the truth is important. This dovetails well with the posts Christy and Jane have been giving us about getting the media to pay attention to the truth, and stop the phony efforts at providing “balance,” with what are inevitably unbalanced panels of competing advocates. So as I read him, Mr. Soros seems to be suggesting, “don’t buy the media; train the journalists and reinstitute/teach the ethics of what that profession should be about.” Teach the principles of the open society.

Christy — Great question. As you and Taylor have posted, it’s not very likely that the public will begin to behave in a more mature way if the President behaves like a spoiled adolescent in public. The chicken/egg issue is that many of us saw him that way from the beginning, and he still won, which is why Mr. Soros then asked, “What’s wrong with us that we would elect such a juvenile?”

TRex #110

Exactly. It should cause some people to pause and go “huh,” when they find out Jon Stewart’s viewers are more informed than FOX News’ (or any other media outlet’s for that matter).

TRex at 111;

I nominate ‘punaise’ as the first one to write one.

I’m also afraid it’s not enough…

If it is not too late, I would suggest a change to the format. Only one or two persons should ask the questions and we can all listen in. Others can discuss Mr Soros’s book at a later time. With so many questions, Mr Soros has to spend all his time to read the questions rather than write responses.
We should do an equivalent of BookTV with one or two (Jane and Christy) asking questions and the guest responding.

Mr. Soros,

Given the maturation of the metaphor into an unwinnable real war, do we as Americans have any non-violent political recourse other than winning the November elections and then successfully impeaching the mindless monster who has his hands on the switch for all of this?

I’m afraid that progressives are going to win this November and win big…but not big enough in the Senate to get 67 votes to convict. Will there then be any recourse other than taking to the streets to get our government to throw the switch and turn the Isaeliis off?

KEEP THE FAITH YOUR VOICE LOUD, WE’VE GOTCHER BACK!!!

Eli says
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:05 pm
I certainly hope Mr. Soros will give some thought to how he could contribute to the creation of a truly “liberal” media…(snip)…Control of the media is very close to control of reality and history itself, as Orwell understood.

The Revolution Will Not Be Televised is a must-see as a cautionary tale of what can happen when the media become an extension of partisan corporate power. The complicity of the American MSM is a key part of the documentary as well. If you don’t have access to the film, it is posted on Google video here.

Matt O-

Pox News’s average viewer is, like, 91 or something. They’re all just too medicated to find the remote.

Which is why it makes more sense to support free agents within the media than to open up one’s own branch of the media like Pox News.

But the free agents, and the shows and books you’ve cited, all have (I believe) very narrow and self-selecting audiences. People tune in to Colbert or Stewart or Olbermann because it satisfies an itch, but people tune in to CNN or Fox News because they want to be informed, or at least told what to think.

I don’t think a handful of shows and books are an adequate counter to the whole right-wing architecture of reality.

…I really think that the strongest think anyone can do for public awareness is to start some sort of fact repository – with references. Some sort of online FAQ – with references. Why not string all that together into some sort of searchable database of who worked with who when and in what interest? Blogosphere commentary is great, books make things much clearer, but it would be wonderful to have a place to find answers for any questions we might have about the validity/foundation of many of the claims and assertaitions we hear. The problem with today’s media is that we seem to be stuck into ‘taking someone’s word for it’.

Actually, because of this last phenomenon, many wouldn’t even know to recognize the truth even if they DID hear it explained clearly. The Neocons know this only too well.

Is there any feasible way to directly inform the public – in a way they can trust?

TRex #118

Yeah, I had read that, as Olbermann noted, no wonder their numbers are going down.

Mr. Soros seems to be suggesting, “don’t buy the media; train the journalists and reinstitute/teach the ethics of what that profession should be about.” Teach the principles of the open society.

This is all well and good, but it assumes that the media’s problem is some form of incompetence or inattention. I believe it’s more of a top-down, deliberate corporate effort to advance a right-wing narrative, where an ethical journalist will have a lot more trouble hanging onto their job.

Amilius — your description of the “Law of One” is like my understanding of karma. Karma does not mean fate, as westerners so often believe, but choice. In other words, we get what we choose, including every peripheral and subordinate outcome that is related to making that choice. This administration seems not to believe that their choices have any repercussions, though, save for the immediate satisfaction of their desires. I don’t believe we are dealing with people who are capable of modeling decisions and the resulting tree of repercussions; we are dealing with people who have the moral equivalence of toddlers, who make choices with a similar lack of depth.

But how to ask the vast American public that relies on broadcast mediums for their news whether they really wanted the equivalent of toddlers running their lives?

To all those pining for a liberal Fox, besides the fact that George pointed out (I feel I know him well enough now to drop the “Mr.”) that doing that would debase us, it’s important to note that Fox is not a counter point to any actual “liberal” media, it is a counter to the “mainstream media,” which to the nutjobs from John Birch-ia looks liberal.

We should continue to focus on getting the media to do its job: uncover the facts, present the truth.

And by the way, when the right reacts against NBC News as liberal, in a way they’re right: NBC News IS liberal in the sense that the US is a liberal country. We like minimum wage laws, health and safety laws, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, free public education, national parks, and so on — all things Republicans were dead-set against, all things a vast majority of Americans support. Why do you think Bush has to pretend he wants to stregthen Social Security? Or provide prescription drug coverage? Or support to education? Because he knows the truth: America is a liberal country.

Petro @ 84 and Matt @ 107 – The unfortunate part is that the “war” phrasing is now embedded inside our culture, including the Democratic Party, which is afraid to be called “weak” if they eschew that framing. It’s likely one reason Mr. Soros @ 86 isn’t too fond of our party’s foreign policy articulation (or lack thereof).

Eli at 3:13 pm –

I think Europeans have a lot of patience with the United States, despite their disdain for the Bush Administration.

They remember WWII — they remember that it was the Marshall Plan that rebuilt Europe after the War. They despair of the willful ignorance in the White House, but also know the United States can be a force for good once again.

I don’t have an answer to the many questions on the media but I know for sure that my owning media is not the answer.

I believe the mainstream media has woken up. I am particularly impressed by the way The New York Times has kept alive such crucial issues as the use of torture. I see a lot of progress. I think we have reached the tipping point, where we may in fact repudiate the war on terror as a false metaphor. Politicians are lagging behind the mood of the country

TRex:at 119:

I’m afraid many intelligent people that I know watch Fox news. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to tell Eastern European friends (who tend to be Republican on account of Reagan) that watching Fox is like believing every word in “Pravda”…

We are flabby shoppers, I agree. And the internet has given access to options to address and break a bit the “on message” theme. But Americans do also work and work a lot. Americans work weekends, holidays, early, late, etc. I can’t compare this on an international field, but Americans come home tired and don’t have long evening hours of family/community time for discussions. They no longer even have the nightly ritual of the evening news. If they did, they have lost a lot of trust in the news sources, and yet have no real energy to dig deeper.

The internet is a great tool, but its also a lot of cacophony for someone not already motivated to sort through. I think that Americans do know there are problems and they need a drastically different response. But they are overloaded and they also do not want to believe that America does things like buy hostages off of warlords without proof of guilt, bomb civlians residences, destroy civilian infrastructure, knowingly send people – including the “wrong” people – off to Syria or Egypt for torture. Certainly not that whole segments of our government would all join in and be complicit in such measures.

No one wants to be the whistleblower – because there is too much at stake in each individual’s life. But they all want to continue to believe in the myth of the whistleblower who comes forward and who manages to get “the right” people to listen – the American hero myth.

American Govt and Media have been so resilient for so long, they really don’t believe it could ever be anything different. The story of what happened, for example, to the German national, el-Masri, isn’t hidden. But by the same token – it isn’t really “known” either. How many Americans would look at you with absolute disbelief if you went through the story – kidnapping, torture, eventual release – and now a lawsuit where the Government says it’s sole defense is “what we did is secret.”

They truly cannot believe that “someone” isn’t “taking care of it” if something like that is happening. Or that they would not be hearing about it loud and long. How typical is it these days to have easily documented, but buried, stories and to have someone say, “why haven’t I heard about this?”

I agree we have flabby shoppers and that we have an inclination to not want to hear bad things about this country, but I believe that Americans would always prefer to do the right thing – even hard things. They just feel less and less able I think. It’s easy to give blood or money and those are needs that are readily explained to them. It’s much harder to “fight” the “concept” that the government is willing to victimize people throughout the world, especially when the proof of these activities is, if not hidden, obscured or ignored by the sources that Americans rely upon to highlight the issues.

That’s why I am thrilled that we have some groups like CREW and more power to the Democratic Alliance for supporting them. POGO is great as well. But I’m not sure how a broad American audience gets exposed to the things that these groups bring to light.

No one has mentioned this as yet, so I want to put this on the table, in case Mr. Soros wants to address this today. Both are covered quite well in The Age of Fallibility, and clearly need a LOT more discussion and action from all of us:

Global warming and global energy issues are tied together on so many levels, and are discussed throughout your book. The problems that both pose require some urgent solutions for problems that have been long in the making, and yet the Bush Administration has no real sense of urgency about either issue. Are there good resources that you point people toward to learn more about individual actions that can be taken for environmental or energy actions at the grassroots level? What is being done outside the governmental malaise – and how can we help to push it forward more effectively?

I think Europeans have a lot of patience with the United States, despite their disdain for the Bush Administration.

I think there are a lot of people around the world who hate America but love Americans. I hope we can turn things around before their patience runs out.

Taylor @ 126 – Well it is the essense of courage to do what we’re afraid of doing. I say call ‘em on it. Brownshirts can go to hell. I’ll still be talking back even as I’m picking myself back up again.
We can all do this together. I think we’ve had enough.

TRex 111

Don’t forget Al Franken’s Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them.

It was a huge best-seller and was a fun read.

And, there was a huge amount of informaion about what the Republicans were up to.

I don’t think a handful of shows and books are an adequate counter to the whole right-wing architecture of reality.

A lot of people would have told you that a handful of angry bloggers and unsatisfied voters in Connecticut would be enough to even slow down the Lieberman juggernaut. These are volatile and mercurial times.

All it takes in some ways is for a butterfly to flap its wings in China to make hurricanes in the media everywhere. And ultimately where media leads, the culture follows.

I think we have reached the tipping point, where we may in fact repudiate the war on terror as a false metaphor.

I sincerely hope you are right.

…I really think that the strongest think anyone can do for public awareness is to start some sort of fact repository – with references.

Promenader, we call that “Media Matters”. It’s awesome. You should check it out.

“Politicians are lagging behind the mood of the country”

…Mr. Soros, are you sure that part of that might not be (a certain category of) the politicians pretending that the mood doesn’t even exist? They have the media eye, so they try to play the ‘everyone thinks’ factor to make everyone think that everyone is thinking that everyone thinks everything is fine.

Eli 3:18 pm — then we have a business model problem, don’t we? We need to find a way to support the kind of media we want — and frankly, starve the media we don’t want. That’s the very nature of capitalism; we are complicit when we fail independent media by purchasing mainstream commercial media.

Part of the challenge we have with generating a new independent media business model is a vetting process, a means by which we certify the participating journalists as worthy of our continued support. Of course, this also applies to mainstream media; we rely on folks like Media Matters to call the corporate media on their inadequacies, but in spite of this, the corporate media continues to thrive. We need to change this disconnect.

Jim Pharo

” the truth: America is a liberal country.”

So how do we get the liberal media we deserve?
Until recently, I would have agreed that we are a liberal country, but now it is hard to make that argument if you view the media as an accurate reflection of the kind of country we have.

george soros says
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:19 pm
(snip) Politicians are lagging behind the mood of the country.

Yes but, alas, politicians are all that people have to vote for. The Dems aren’t doing the job…they are too beholden to corporate campaign financing.

And progressives are fearful of the obvious solution, independent and third-party candidates, because they rightly fear a Naderesque vote-splitting enshrining neocons for another term…a possibility too terrible to contemplate.

So what can be done to catch politicians up? Nothing seems to have worked so far.

Frankly, I don’t see the need for a ‘Liberal’ media, as that term implies some type of counter-coloration which would have to compete on a somewhat tilted field.
Rather, I see the need for a more unfiltered media, informed with usage and respect for critical thinking on the part of both the content provider and recipient.

One step toward this might be a Democratic initiative to revisit the Fairness Doctrine, with an eye to channeling competing ideologies toward more accurate, factual representation of their (and their opponents) positions and initiatives.
This might have the added value of forcing the sensationalist types to cease their pandering to base impulses, as media owners would be under obligation to provide a rebuttal of same.

Politicians are lagging behind the mood of the country.

I agree, Mr. Soros. To Eli’s point, I would say, if the media are so in thrall to the GOP and so all-powerful, why is Dubya stuck at 35-40% in the polls?

They can build him up as a king all they want, but ultimately he can’t command the waves of reality — and most people can see that. The task for progressives/Democrats is to build a craft that rides those waves, then convince voters that they’re safer on our boat than they are expecting that foolish, deluded king to protect them.

Frankly, I don’t see the need for a ‘Liberal’ media, as that term implies some type of counter-coloration which would have to compete on a somewhat tilted field.
Rather, I see the need for a more unfiltered media, informed with usage and respect for critical thinking on the part of both the content provider and recipient.

Like Colbert says. “Reality has a well-known liberal bias.”

And what of the false metaphor of freedom, Rove style, being equated with democracy. We have far less of either, than was the case when President Bush took office in 2000. The very idea that the presidential election in that year was free and therefore legitimate is not true. The Bush administration’s very essence is built upon false metaphors. Things like “mission accomplished” for instance. What mission? What accomplishment? Or how about wire-tapping in the name of freedom? Republicanism as we know it today is foundated (is this a word?) on the propaganda of the false Republican “robust” economy and the phony religious righteousness of greed and power, forced indoctrination, and genocide in the name of fighting terror. George Bush is way beyond being a bad president. He is a criminal. This Democrat says thankyou Mr. Soros for you perspective and ideas and your book. These things are nothing short of moral. And morale building for our party. You are an island of truth in a sea of fabrications. I wish I knew who you think is the best potential candidate to lead the Democratic party to victory in ‘08.

As you may have noticed, we are desperate for it. Control of the media is very close to control of reality and history itself, as Orwell understood. I think the hunger for an objective, fearless, trustworthy media extends well beyond the liberal blogosphere.

amen, this is why i like CSPAN. while i have not read your book george i have seen you on CSPAN and was mightly impressed, and of course they have the jack asses too. which is fine, i listen, i decide. no flashy bells, or fancy graphics. a bit boring, maybe something in between CSPAN and the cabloids would be nice. qaulity is not always achieved with the shiniest, but maybe the brightest would shine some light on the TRUTH, which is the beauty of the blogs. so on that note, since i have to get off, thanx to jane and christy, i don’t comment often but i read everyday, and atrios ’cause that’s where i prove i’m a jack ass and digby…

blogs are free for the most part, but intelligent people i know don’t have any idea what is going on. you work 40 hours a week you only have the MSM to fill you in with a snippet, be nice if it had some truth/fact in it.

Reading along …and thank you Mr. Soros for your book and your comments.

Christy re global warming and lack of govt action. We’re now seeing significant actions from institutional investors to make this a critical issue for corporate players rather than wait for government activity.

And I’m interested to know whether Mr. Soros sees the corporate sustainability movement and efforts like the UN PRI (Principals of Responsible Investment) program as effective efforts for change?

I have to say, in all honesty, that I have no interest in having a “liberal media” clone of Fox News. What I would simply like is for the media to do its job properly — be skeptical, ask difficult questions, report on facts that it has checked beyond reading a press release, editors who are interested in “news” and not tabloid smarm.

You know, honest facts and accurate assessment — cutting through the malarky and the spin and the “on background” dishonesty.

then we have a business model problem, don’t we? We need to find a way to support the kind of media we want — and frankly, starve the media we don’t want.

ck’s going to jump on me any second here, but I am cynical enough to believe that the media’s propaganda imperative trumps its profit imperative. Yes, they want to make money if at all possible, but ultimately the giant corporate parent stands to make more money from Republican control of government than they do off of readers/viewers/consumers.

I gotta run. Thank you Mr. Soros for coming here and contending with this whole classroom full of Hermione Grangers. (”Oooh!! ME!! Pick me!! I’ve got the best question!!”)

We are honored by your attention.

Thanks.

As Eli said. in #121. I’m reading Brock’s Republican Noise Machine and the amount of money backing them and their ideas are astonishing. And when you fight against it, AS A HOBBY, you are fighting against people who are highly paid to promote their ideas and beat you down. It is their full time job. They and 1000’s of others do nothing more all day than support and encourage their narrative.

There is no PR firm pushing fulltime to get more of Jane, Christy, Digby, Greenwald or Athenae on the TV shows or in the papers.

In order to be recognized they have to write a book (has to be a best seller) then they have the privilege of getting the crap beat out of them for 5 minutes on O’Rielly, condescended to by Matthews, ridiculed 24/7 on talk radio or ignored entirely (like Eric Boehlert was) because they offer something that the media doesn’t want to address.

The infrastructure to support opposing narratives isn’t glamorous and it doesn’t pay well. If it wasn’t for the tools (mostly free) that we have available to us with the internet would we even hear these different ideas at all?

Politicians are lagging behind the mood of the country

Politicians are always a lagging indicator of public opinion — except when they radical revolutionaries or reactionaries.

Lenin, Hitler, and Bush come to mind.

Christy:

Regarding new energy efficiency – actually companies like Dupont have been working on synthetic gas for our cars for a long time, it’s the cost of 2.50$ per gallon that has prevented them from implementing it. Since gas prices have risen above 3.00 dollars, and if they stay that way, we may see DuPont providing the new product.

Christy Hardin Smith says
July 23rd, 2006 at 3:20 pm
No one has mentioned this…(snip)…Global Warming

Mandated hybrid engines on all new passenger cars/trucks would be a start.

Christy Hardin Smith @ 3:29 pm – (#147) – I have to say, in all honesty, that I have no interest in having a “liberal media” clone of Fox News.

Nor do I. Dueling punditocracies has never been my idea of good journalism. It might help to have a print version of NPR or PBS, something that’s non-profit and (mostly) subscriber-supported, but beyond that I really think the best thing is to just make journalists aware when they’re not doing their jobs properly.

spocko at 150 — you have just summed up exactly why Jane and I started the FDL Book Salon. Nicely done. (It’s not exactly lining our pockets, other than the odd bit of change from Amazon, but it has been an amazing means of getting more of the progressive message out into the mainstream discussion. Best idea of Jane’s ever. And that’s out of a whole lot of great ideas…)

I think I had it right last week that we should start calling it the War on Error….

Christy 3:20 pm — actually, I’ve wondered whether the issue of Sustainability isn’t an issue worthy of its own initiative at Open Society Institute.

Sustainability cuts a broad swath, but it also addresses the issues of long-term energy resources and environmental viability. While energy resources and consumption might fall under the existing OSI iniative “Economic Development”, energy should not be separated from its shadow twin, the environment. A separate initiative encompassing both might encourage this dualistic approach, too, thinking of energy at the same time as environment.

Food for thought, Mr. Soros.

Re the power of the media -one of the women who demonstrates for Peace with me on sundays is a former right wing veteran who always watched Fox news. She came home one day and turned on the t.v. and started watching awhile before she noticed she was on CNN… and in those minutes she was outraged that she had been lied to and was changed forever. So it goes back to changing the metaphors, to finding ways to get people to see things differently. And different things work for different people. As someone above said, a lot of people really don’t want to deal with doing research and a lot of reading. But a different metaphor that can spread…. let’s find it and spread it.

On the Connecticut Senatorial primary—I hold Liebermann responsible for uncritical support of the Bush policy in Iraq. He appeared on the White House lawn to endorse the blank check to the President when Biden and Lugar were close to negotiating a bipartisan agreement for a more restrictive resolution. That is why I contributed to Ned Lamont.

Mr. Soros, is there anything that you believe we – those of us participating here and on other like-minded websites – should be doing differently?

Are there any mistakes from your perspective? Are we missing opportunities or misdeploying our efforts?

To Eli’s point, I would say, if the media are so in thrall to the GOP and so all-powerful, why is Dubya stuck at 35-40% in the polls?

As you said, there is only so much they can do in the face of uniformly unfavorable reality. They must walk a very fine line to avoid losing so much credibility that they become useless.

Yes, I have become implacably hostile towards the media, in case you haven’t noticed. I’m happy to see the NYT and WaPo occasionally throw some truth out there and stick to their guns, but they both continue to do a lot of shilling and spinning for the Republicans as well.

I wonder if we can finally say that capitalism is not the answer? It seems many of our problems are caused from money grabbing at all costs.

Is it time to redefine the term capitalism?

Thanks

Time to head to evening mass, must leave. But thank you so very much, Mr. Soros, Michael Vachon, Jane and Christy! I’ll check back after mass to see what has been added.

Swopa 143

I think if there were an accurate and fair media, Bush’s approval would be down around 10% where it belongs.

Of the 65% who don’t like him now, many of them would give him the benefit of the doubt if they could. Unfortunately for Bush, these are the people stuck in the donut hole of Medicare reform, are in a low-paying job, are among the thousands (Millions) having their homes foreclosed, have lost their pensions, are dying of treatable diseases, have had a child or spouse die in Iraq, or are English teachers.

They are against Bush in spite of the barage of news slanted to make him look good. He’s too awful even for that to work.

Mr Soros, as a U.S. citizen, do you find it odd that when you spend (I have heard about $30 million) on liberal causes in one election cycle, that you are called all sorts of names and are accused by conservatives of “buying the democratic party” given that the conservative movement has been funded, propped up and prodded, in a major way, into power by non citizen Sun Myung Moon who has spent billions of dollars over the last 25 years on the conservative movement? It is frankly unlikely they would control our government without Moon’s “help”.

Do you find that especially odd given that the Moon organization, which has given cash to help prop up North Korea, freely admits it has brought most of this money in from overseas, particularly Japan where the Unification Church has been found guilty of swindling vast sums of money from the Japanese, targeting widows?

And lastly, do you find it extra especially odd that you are slandered by conservatives given that Moon was quoted in U.S. News and World Report on March 27, 1989 as saying that his plan was the “natural subjugation of the American government and population” and it appears he has been successful given his goal of right wing theocratic governance for America.

btw: Please look at funding investigative journalism like Consortium News. Robert Parry is the most underutilized assest our nation has. He could put together an organization that would do our nation proud.

I know this information is out there on the internet and in the blogosphere, but I think it might be useful to be able to go to a single site and say, “Hmmm, I wonder what Al Gore’s track record is on all subjects?” and then scroll down through a list of links.

Mr. Soros- thanks for writing and thanks for participating. And, there are so many great questions and general points being made. I am having a hard time keeping up. However, it looks like this is one of those discussions that is going to be read and re-read long after the actual time slot of this Book Salon. So, Mr. Soros, if you have time to come back to questions not addressed so far, and want to respond, we will be reading.

tony tyner #163: Ha ha! I think successufl capitalists know that they have to push to redifine capitalism continuously (what’s property mean, how do you measure worth, what the contract means, etc.) Then hash it out persuade the judge that your version is right. Thinking capitalism means the same thing from one day to the next is for the little people who are not players. I think this is a more orderly process in financial markets, and real property. But if you work and think you have a labor contract, or have an insurance policy, watch out!

Eli 149

Boy, did you say a mouthful here!

. . . but I am cynical enough to believe that the media’s propaganda imperative trumps its profit imperative. Yes, they want to make money if at all possible, but ultimately the giant corporate parent stands to make more money from Republican control of government than they do off of readers/viewers/consumers.

I think you’ve nailed it.

Mr Soros, In view of Christy’s comment at 130, where she asks about specific actions one can take on global warming, it seems to me that your explanation of a Carbon Tax, and buying Carbon Credits (p. 188) applies.

However — in view of currently inadequate government institutions, operated by market fundamentalists — legislating a Carbon Tax where I live would be politically impossible.

I think it is too complex to ask about implementing a Carbon Tax/ Carbon Credits program via NGOs on this Book Salon, because I don’t think there is time for response. However, I’ll simply note that I fear US gov’t is nowhere close to implementing this within the next 3 years.

Christy, re-read p. 188, and then a Google Search on “Carbon Tax” as one concrete, specific action that individuals could engage in with respect to Global Warming.

I’ll go search http://www.soros.org in case they are also doing work on this. It would be a good Netroots Project for interested FDLers.

———-
Re: media comments – personally, I think tv is very 20th c. If you want to teach people concepts they need to be more effective, that happens on computers (and, now also mobile phones). Count me with cjohnson @ 5 — and note that no tv show could compare with this thread, let alone with FDL ;-)

With corporatization so extended into government that does not operate in sunshine, politicians do not really have to follow the will of the people. The Lamont campaign will be interesting in that aspect, but there would be no Lamont campaign if Ned Lamont did not have some very strong finances. It’s a hard game to break through.

Part of the problem of deconstructing the metaphor, now, is that there are real wars on the ground and in the offing. Whatever the resistance to deconstructing that our response to terrorist tactics should not have been militarization that dispensed with uniform values of justice found in the Geneva Conventions and our own lawas; that resistance will become even stronger IMO to deconstructing the premise of the war when we are still left with a war. The mind tends to rebel at the thought of lives lost for nothing or, worse yet, to make the situation worse rather than better.

Spocko 151

In order to be recognized they have to write a book (has to be a best seller) then they have the privilege of getting the crap beat out of them for 5 minutes on O’Rielly, condescended to by Matthews, ridiculed 24/7 on talk radio or ignored entirely (like Eric Boehlert was) because they offer something that the media doesn’t want to address.

Or ignored completely, like Mark Crispin Miller with his latest on the stolen ‘04 election.

I’ve asked my piece so best leave some question time to others – it’s going on one am here in Paris. Thank you Mr. Soros, and I’ll be reading up on this thread first thing tomorrow – and looking up your book at Brentano’s. Thanks for everything you’re doing in truth’s name.

I have seen Adam Curtis’s “The Power of Nightmares” and I too recommend it.

Mr. Soros,

Do you see any parallel between the situation of Afro-Americans in the US and the Arab populations in the middle-east. Let’s see 10% of the US population and 40% of the prison population. The terrorist are not more than 5%, I would say. Discontent and lack of opportunity is the root to a lot of evil.

The Pax Americana of integration aparently has some difficulty to come about with no heath-care nor retirement while the European integration does have some problems for the youth, but heath-care and retirement are more of less taken care of.

I understand that Iran supports Hezbollah, $300 M for now ??, true in guns but also in health-care, education, community whatever etc…how much more could we have made with the Iraq war money, any thoughts.

TRex @ 143:

Indeed it does

;>)

Eli @ 148:

I don’t necessarily subscribe to that narrative (’the media’s propaganda imperative trumps its profit imperative’). Rather, IMO, one follows another in an ever-constricting circle of quid pro quo and expansionist strategies…Concepts flattering to ruling power goals are highlighted to garner favorable legislation or rollback of unfavorable legislation. Media (in a broad sense) will show no hesitation whatsoever to foster any ideological point if there is something in it for them.

News divisions were converted to profit centers in the 1980’s under corporate expansion, which of course gave rise to Republican/conservative themes being given favorable treatment, but with the glaring exception of FOX (who appears to persist in remaining foremost among propaganda disseminators), spiking of stories that contrast unfavorably with establishment/Administration memes cannot be counted on at all times.

I am cynical enough to believe that the media’s propaganda imperative trumps its profit imperative.

I sort of agree with that — but only from the corner office perspective.

I believe the problem with the media is more Behaviorist than Ideologically driven, although both play a role.

The Corporate Ownership of media applies top down pressure to support the GOP agenda — that’s the ideological pressure in the newsroom.

ultimately the giant corporate parent stands to make more money from Republican control of government than they do off of readers/viewers/consumers.

That is the attitude in most corporate boardrooms, but the disaster that the Bush Administration is bringing down on all of us is causing them to rethink their GOP loyalties.

The Behaviorist/Pavlovian right wing pressure in the newsroom comes from two directions — the unrelenting right wing assault on the “liberal media”, and the diminished employment opportunities for reporters that don’t knuckle under to the right wing pressure from the owners (the Newscorp Murdoch effect).

To summarize — the new rooms are under attack from two directions, and until FireDogLake and other blogs started pushing back, there was no counter balance to the right wing influence. Sad, but true . . .

Note that Condi Rice’s talk about “birth pangs”, mentioned in Digby’s #64, is an example of the influence of apocalyptic ideas on current events highlighted in #74.

Condi was encouraging Dubya’s end-time base to get behind a wider war, by harking back to Matthew 24:7-8.

“Such things are bound to happen; but the end is still to come. For nation will make war upon nation; kingdom upon kingdom; there will be famine and earthquake in many places. With all these things the birth-pangs of the new age begin.” (New English Bible)

I came late and so haven’t had a chance to read all the comments upthread but does anyone know a news organization whose business model is actually working? From what I have seen there has been nothing but downsizing going on. Almost every week there is an announcement of significant cuts in staff or another paper or chain up for sale. Networks and cable are tied to larger companies with deeper pockets but they also seem to be cutting back. One of the reasons I think they do so many missing white women stories is because they are so cheap and easy to do: few facts and no special expertise or investigative reporting are needed. Blogs like this one have been taking up a lot of this slack and catching a lot of grief for doing so. They fill a need for those among us who feel information starved by the poor quality of the regular media.

george soros,

In your other works, you’ve said that bad systems are understandably adhered to until a better, albeit still flawed, system comes along that solves some of the entrenched system’s main vices. It seems we’re in the last months of Bretton Woods. Do you have any reading you would recommend re: post-Dollar international capital valorization systems? Any thought leaders you admire would be most appreciated. Sorry for not reading your newest book, but blogs take all my spare time these days. (wink, wink.) Thanks for your faith and your good fights.

@166 …. there was an additional sentence … mentioning the Sunlight Foundation, which providdes htm snippets that pull politicians’ voting records from a data base and display them when a link is moused over, in a pop-up display .. hence the name of the web service is Pop-Up Politicians.

http://sunlightlabs.com/popuppoliticians/

It’s certainly true that the war on terror is not a war- a war requires a recognizable opponent- not a noun.

Neither is the war in Iraq a war. Again- we have no recognizable opponent- rather- the US has `committed it’s troops to be policemen- enforcing no particular laws. Iraqis have decided to kill one another and to kill the US police- that is not a war. We have no recognizable enemy- we do not openly support any of the groups warring against one another. The metaphore of “war” is dangerous and misleading. “Who’s winning?” Of course there can be no answer.

It is important to remember the mechanical effects of real world items such as paper ballots and the theft of votes in
electrical screen machines. The message becomes secondary when the intention of the electorate is denied by wholesale fraud. Complaints of too much work counting ballots deny the history when all votes were hand counted. Scanning paper ballots electrically is subject to
fraud and manipulation. The denial of ballots to groups of
voters in their local voting stations and the long lines to
cause voters to quit from frustration if they manage to
register like in Ohio by the criminal bastard sec of State
must not be allowed to happen again. Forcing the
states to join the 21st Century and end the apartheid policy holding back the will of the people is as important
as any other matter before us. Hand counts and real votes
and fair registration policy free of partisan interference
are our right and desire. Thank you Mr. Soros for your many efforts towards equality for our Nation.

To summarize — the new rooms are under attack from two directions, and until FireDogLake and other blogs started pushing back, there was no counter balance to the right wing influence. Sad, but true . . .

I agree with this at the newsroom level. I think the pushback also constrains how far right the media can go without exposing themselves.

War on Error. That’s a good one. Can I use it?

1,220 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Mary,

You are so right, as usual, about the corporatization of government accross the board (all 3 branches) and, of course, we are not up against a metaphore but a real life war…but that is the point here, we HAVE been in a real war and it is only gunna spred until we stop it. That was my question to Mr. Soros, are we gunna have recourse to goin’ inta the street and confronting the military…makin’ the military choose either the constitution or the fuerer.

KEEP THE FAITH AND SHOOT STRAIGHT!!

Re: question #165

Documentation to Moon’s money sources, effort and goals can be found here

http://www.cellwhitman.blogspot.com/

and at Mr. Parry’s here:

http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/moon.html

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0723.html

harriette meyers tells the president to “lawyer up”

“in case the democrats take over the house

well, we WILL take over the house IF we have legitimate elections

which is NOT likely

we really have to get our plan of action to insure correct election results and we have to start the plan NOW.

Mr. Soros, do you know anything about Catherine Austin Fitts ahd her Solari Foundation? She proposes local investment groups, in which them members invest locally in order to improve their community’s “popsicle” index – her measure of safety. Do you endorse her views? They seemd to be the opposite of yours, but then we don’t have as much to invest.

Just one more passing observation – I very much enjoyed your short section on truth and success. Science, as well as medicine and law, are being devalued and the truth along with them.

[War on Error is really good.*g*]

nicteis and digby — I too was struck by the “birth pangs” statement from condi, but I had not seen the biblical reference. wow. In any other Administration, that’s just coincidence; you can find a reference for anything; but with this crowd, it probably was deliberate.

Some jounalist should have asked, “What beast is this . . . slouching towards Bethlehem to be born?”

Mr. Soros,

Thank you for your book and for being part of this discussion.

Are you affected by the new Russian law on NGO’s/charities? I work in St. Petersburg at the children’s hospital.

Regarding a “truth” repository. One idea that I have discussed with Sam Seder at Air America is a way to link some of the best work that is done by bloggers with some of the best people in the media using readily available technology.

Envision this:

Sam Seder or Eric Boehlert is in a press conference at the White House. They are webcasting the press conference live to FDL or Crooks and Liars. Holden, Atrios, Christy and the rest of us are watching, commenting and researching in real time. Someone could transmit the research to Sam and Eric and or talk to them like a TV producer via headset. Bullshit answers by politicians can be pointed out RIGHT THEN. Experts can be quoted back to them, mistakes pointed out instantly.

“But Mr. Vice President you said on such and such a day… Mr. President according to FISA rules as detailed by Glenn Greenwald…”

And Air America would charge money for the feed to pay the salary of Eric and Sam. Bloggers would be able to get actual questions into the mix that the “real” media seems to miss.

Mary #171

One of the lenses through which I view this Administration is the maxim that when you elect idiots there will be consequences and these will almost always be bad. The real question for me is what has gone so wrong with our institutions and our system that the likes of Bush could run credibly for President at all let alone twice.

Somebody please pass the smelling salts to ccmask, who’s just fainted dead away.

Mr. Soros,

My father thinks I am part of a radical left wing conspiracy that is attempting to destroy this country and replace it with a socialist regime headed by trans-national oligarchs and intellectuals, or maybe the UN) and that you are funding this effort.

I am sure there are some people who probably want such a thing, but I am aware of neither my involvement nor yours.

I am hoping for some words from you personally that I can convey to him in the hope that it might bring him back to earth.

Eli –

The problem with right wing top down pressure in newsrooms is best summarized by Upton Sinclair:

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”

The right wing nailed Dan Rather’s scalp to the wall, for the crime of relying on memos of dubious provenance — the report on Bush being AWOL from the Air National Guard was factually accurate, other than that mnor error.

The reporters in the newsrooms fear for their jobs, if they dare to criticize the GOP. That is the fundamental flaw in the American Media.

ck, that Sinclair quote has become one of my all-time favorites in the past few years. I have yet to find anything else quite so succinctly enlightening.

george soros wrote: “The aggression against Israel is real and Israel has an unquestioned right to defend itself and remove Hezbollah from its borders.”

No such thing as an “unquestioned right.” Palestinian demographic forces in the region won’t be contained and can’t be denied. Get rid of Hezbollah and something else will take its place. Israel can endure as a one-state solution (article; book; google) but Zionism is indefensible in the long run. It’s apartheid. I too used to speak in platitudes about Israel’s unquestioned right to exist but 40 years after the 1967 war, it’s a Palestinian state that does not exist, so the politically consequential question is whether Israel recognizes a Palestinian right to statehood, not the reverse. I’ve come around to the view that Israel needn’t be Zionist to exist but that peace is a threat to Zionism. What’s so sacred about the original Zionist ideal anyway? Increasing numbers of Israelis don’t think it’s sacred and support a single bi-national state.

Hello Mr. Soros,

I live in Kansas. 105 counties, 103 voted for Bush in ‘04. Republicans are jumping ship left and right and running as Dems this year. Have you read about this? We have a female, Dem governor and her campaign is going to be unstoppable. Republicans are inserting “willingness to reach across the aisle to Democrats” type language into their campaign ads. The sea change is upon us.

Thank you for all the work that you do to help us!

Cujo359 @154 says:

Christy Hardin Smith @ 3:29 pm – (#147) – I have to say, in all honesty, that I have no interest in having a “liberal media” clone of Fox News.

Nor do I. Dueling punditocracies has never been my idea of good journalism. It might help to have a print version of NPR or PBS, something that’s non-profit and (mostly) subscriber-supported, but beyond that I really think the best thing is to just make journalists aware when they’re not doing their jobs properly.

Why aren’t their more “Media Matters” type sites out there? I remember one called Presstitutes.com that started out fantastic and then went totally inactive and not for lack of readership either.

Christy, Jane, Mr. Soros… What would it take to put together a network of media watchdogs that can effectively provide full disclosure and accountability for ALL corporate media personalities. For example, for months I was fully unaware that Chris Matthews had a brother running as a Republican for Lt. Governor. When I learned that, I researched more and then put together this analysis of him.

Isn’t it fair to say that if someone wishes to be a “journalist” and therefore a scribe or voice of modern history, full disclosure on ALL interests, motivations, investments, affiliations, agendas is a fair sacrifice? Am I off base with this?

And on a quick final not for Christy @155:
spocko at 150 — you have just summed up exactly why Jane and I started the FDL Book Salon. Nicely done. (It’s not exactly lining our pockets, other than the odd bit of change from Amazon, but it has been an amazing means of getting more of the progressive message out into the mainstream discussion. Best idea of Jane’s ever. And that’s out of a whole lot of great ideas…)

I’d have to say that inviting TRex on board to write the late nite FDL posts ranks up there at the top as well! :)

I loves me a ReddHedd on CSPAN, and the rest of FDL too!

US Journalists are emeshed in symbiotic relationships with the powerful. Instead of being indepedent and critical, journalists are typically dependent on policy makers and are unwilling to raise the crucial and critical questions. Rather than monitoring the game of power, most journalist are a part of that game.

Mary @172 –

MythBusters on the Discovery Channel is one of The Kid’s favorite shows, partly because it’s filmed in our very own Bay Area (Hey, I’ve been there!), and partly because the hosts have fun blowing things up, running things into each other, and generally digging/building/flying/driving/crashing things with great delight. The Mom and I like it because they take urban legends and “conventional wisdom” and subject them to scientific experimentation, not taking what “everyone knows” as a given. “If that’s the case, then we ought to be able to verify it – or disprove it.” (Full disclosure: The Mom and I also like the blowing things up parts, too.)

That’s what we’re talking about in the political world here. As you said, after deconstructing the metaphor of the War on Terror™ and finding that we still are left with blood and guts and bombs and guns and caskets and funerals and whatnot . . . sigh . . . that is indeed a drag on debate and a hindrance to getting past this failed excuse for a rhetorical device. But that makes it all the more important to lay out what kind of war are we left with.

To my mind (and thanks to your thoughtful comment), it seems to me as if Bush is fighting the War on Sunshine. For every question about an issue of substance – from the Energy Task Force meetings with Dick Cheney to Hamden and the military tribunals at Gitmo to the 9-11 Commission to eavesdropping and secret prisons – the answer is always “Not gonna tell you anything.”

In the long run, it’s about as likely to succeed as the French Candlemakers’ petition to restrict the people’s use of the sun as an unfair competition. In the short run, though, “not gonna tell you anything” and the War on Sunshine has gotten Bush a second four years in office and billions for Halliburton and the rest of RoveCo Industries.

Hugh @ 194 – Fear.

Hugh @ 194 – Fear.

And hate. And an unwillingness to believe that media or politicians can lie as hugely and baldly as they do.

lotus @ 195– you are so funny!

ccmask, can you talk yet?

rwcole,

The power to declare war was expressly given to the legislative branch but it has been effectively preempted by the executive. The War Powers Act was supposed to redress this imbalance but instead gave the President a place at the table where constitutionally he had none. So then we got the President boxing in politically the Congress to support AUMF or be “unAmerican”. Now he doesn’t do much more than make vague references to the unitary executive, AUMF per Hamdi and not Hamdan, and, if all else fails, Article II. As he is going now, he could declare war on ham sandwiches if he wanted.

Hugh, we could get both Palestinians and Israelis to unite on a War Against Ham Sandwiches !

Hugh –

I think that you indict ham sandwiches, not declare war on them.

Or maybe it’s just prosecutors that indict ham sandwiches, but presidents get to declare war on them.

(Either way, I’m not sure that would be kosher.)

I think that you indict ham sandwiches, not declare war on them.

Or maybe it’s just prosecutors that indict ham sandwiches, but presidents get to declare war on them.

Only liberals would think that the ham sandwich menace can be addressed as a criminal matter.

hugh, it’s grand juries that indict ham sandwiches, and it’s prosecutors who get them to do so.

george soros asks –

War on Error. That’s a good one. Can I use it?

Of Course you can use it — the blogs are the virtual think tanks for the opposition to the War on Terror, and all of the other Bush disasters.

We are always looking for sound bites and wedge issues, that can move public opinion.

Sad to say, most of the Democratic Politicians view us through the perspective of Senator Lieberman — as a force that threatens their security, instead of allies that can turn the tide against the Republicans.

Sad to say, most of the Democratic Politicians view us through the perspective of Senator Lieberman — as a force that threatens their security, instead of allies that can turn the tide against the Republicans.

I think that’s unfair. They also view us as cash cows who will give them money if they pretend they’ll listen to us. Or because we know the alternative is worse (Helloooo, Rick Santorum!).

Apologies if someone else has already said this, but what I have always hated about the term, “War on Terror,” is that it plants a notion that the only way to victory is a use of force and violence greater than that which is directed at us, or which we have suffered. That’s a recipe for an ever-spiraling cycle of violence.

Maybe the term, “Campaign for Peace” strikes a different chord, and plots a wholly different path for the eradication of terrorism.

spocko says
July 23rd, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Regarding a “truth” repository…

Spocko, I’m not sure if you are referring to my American Oracle idea (#46) or not, but my gut feeling is that most good reporters know that stuff already, but are loath to be confrontational.

I was more interested in crediting those commentators, journalists, pundits and politicians with reliable track records as prescient thinkers, advisers and prognosticators…and discrediting those who have been repeatedly wrong.

We do it for golf and baseball, but not for something as important as domestic and foreign policy.

This site would serve the purpose you suggested, and something more, I hope. Over time, people would be able to judge, for themselves, whose advice to credit as informed, and whose to dismiss as unreliable.

In the same way that Media Matters documents and catalogues the lies, this site would document and catalogue truths. Yang to the MM’s Yin, or something like that.

George Soros — War on Error. That’s a good one. Can I use it?

I get my best material out of the comments section.

Just leave prosciuttos out of it, if you don’t mind.

I certainly think that is a valid and useful way to proceed, Anne. Campaign for Peace, Department of Peace, etc. is a much better way to frame the issue.

Save the Children and the Elders.

tryggth and Eli,

While both fear and hate are true, why is the “greatest democracy” in the world so gullible at an institutional level? It isn’t just that Bush epitomizes these things. Why is our much vaunted system so susceptible to such primal screams? What happened to it? My answer is that it is money. When money was equated with free speech by the SCOTUS, it sanctioned putting a pricetag on government. Sure, money and corruption have always been part of our political history. It is just that now they are the major players and their role is per the SCOTUS constitutionally protected.

I have always hated about the term, “War on Terror,” is that it plants a notion that the only way to victory is a use of force and violence

That’s the point — the “War on Terror” construct is intended to turn the American people into mindless supporters of the Bush Administration and Republican Ascendancy.

I have enjoyed reading your comments—I was encouraged by the comment from Kansas.

I think the complaints about the media are overdone. I remember when the rightwing media was complaining about liberal domination. In fact they are still doing it. The answer is not to imitate them. I liked the comment:

“I have to say, in all honesty, that I have no interest in having a “liberal media” clone of Fox News. What I would simply like is for the media to do its job properly — be skeptical, ask difficult questions, report on facts that it has checked beyond reading a press release, editors who are interested in “news” and not tabloid smarm”

I am signing off now, thank you all very much.

I get my best material out of the comments section.

and there is a lot of brilliant materials right here on this thread. Thanks.

Apologies to all, perhaps I should have said egg salad?

ck @ 212 – blogs are great. How many businesses could afford to get the variety of viewpoints, expertise, and backgrounds that collect on any good blog? Not many, if any.

And look at how rapidly the info about who actually indicts Menacing Ham Sandwiches gets corrected on a blog? At FDL, it took only 3 minutes.

Must go sharpen my Hermoine Granger magical wand at this point. If I ever get time to make a YouTube video of my wand sharpening, I’ll send it with special luv to TRex ;-)

Eli @ 213

“I think that’s unfair. They (estab politicians) also view us as cash cows who will give them money if they pretend they’ll listen to us. Or because we know the alternative is worse (Helloooo, Rick Santorum!).”

Cash porcupines is more like it.

Freaked Out Canadian -

I was more interested in crediting those commentators, journalists, pundits and politicians with reliable track records as prescient thinkers, advisers and prognosticators…and discrediting those who have been repeatedly wrong.

I think this is a hugely important idea. Americans should never, never forget what brought us to this point in our history. I even hear folks on our side pooh pooh the idea of examining the failures and the lies and just say, “Let’s move on, the blame and recrimination is not productive.”

But I say we’ll never heal or progress or make things right again, with ourselves and the world, if we do not face up to what has happened to us as a nation. Mass amnesia is not the answer.

I love your idea!

Thanks very much Mr. Soros.

MrEMAn 4:

Where are you in KS? I am in the capital city.

Which county besides Douglas went for Kerry? Not mine, unfortunately. Was it Wyandotte?

Are you in KS netroots?

Jane, Christy — thanks for Book Salon and today’s session with George Soros. That was impressive. There’s hope (even in Kansas).

Indeed, Mr. Soros, thanks very much for joining us.

Freaked Out Canadian,
I appreciated your deft description of “reconstruction” from the African American point of view.

Anne,

Force is article one of the neocon dogma. Parenthetically, it is also the point at which the neocons went seriously off the rails.

Hugh @219, outside of the media (which is huge), I don’t think there’s any intrinsic problem with American institutional structures – the problem lies with the people inside those structures.

Our government has (or had) a very good system of checks and balances in place, *assuming* that each branch of the government would want to preserve its own sphere of power. When the Republican Congress abdicated their power to become Bush’s rubber stamp, it rendered the institution ineffective.

However, you are correct that money and the pursuit and power thereof have had a major corrupting influence. But as long as incumbents control Congress (by my count, they have a 100% majority in both houses), I don’t see any kind of major field-levelling campaign financing reform on the horizon.

Many thanks to Mr. Soros and Michael Vachon for their participation today. Much appreciated by everyone here. And enormous gratitude to Mr. Soros for writing the book that brought us all together today — and for starting a number of much needed conversations.

bless you, Mr. Soros, Jane, Christy and all my fellow FDL’ers.

There is hope for our world and it is always in our own hands.

Hugh, I agree with your 1:47.
I have been very impressed with emptywheel’s posts about the 4G war we’re in, versus the 3G war Rummy and Israel want to fight.

Thanks Jane and Christy for another great forum.

MrEMan, I have to go right now but would like to talk to you. I’ll check later to see if you left anything here for me.

I certainly learned something today — that Lugar and Biden were negotiating a more restrictive AUMF and Rah Rah Joe helped Bush et al undercut those restrictions. Thanks, Gyorgy !

Thank you for dropping by, Mr. Soros.

Thank you, Mr. Soros! This was fascinating, and definitely lived up to expectations.

neurophius says MrEMAn 4:

Where are you in KS? I am in the capital city.

Which county besides Douglas went for Kerry? Not mine, unfortunately. Was it Wyandotte?

Are you in KS netroots?

Neurophius – Yes, the Dotte went blue in ‘04!

If you can, meet me here:http://getintheirface.blogspot.com/ we can chat on the top thread – Peace, Propaganda & The Promised Land. I can give you more info there…

Hey, Christy, I think Mr. Soros was trying to get on your good side by quoting you. Thank you, Jane and Christy for getting him to appear here, he is one of my most admired modern thinkers.

Completely agree re: media integrity, the answer is not to balance out ome extremism with another. The answer is to marginalize extremism.

Hugh, I agree with your 1:47 should be
Hugh, I agree with your 4:37.

Oh, and thank you, Mr. Vachon.

Hugth @ 219-

why is the “greatest democracy” in the world so gullible at an institutional level

The framing of the answer probably depends on to what degree you think those institutions are designed or evolved.

It is just that now they are the major players and their role is per the SCOTUS constitutionally protected.

…for example.

But I take your point. Unconstrained free capitalism is an evolved tool. That it doesn’t very well support the design of Eden doesn’t surprise me.

And thanks for stopping by George!

thanks to Mr. Vachon as well!

So great you could join us, everyone. Not just Mr. Soros, of course, who has been more than generous with his time and attention, but all our community members as well.

a meta comment: Jane had marshalled her phalanx of shadowy moderators to lurk to control an onslaught of trolls — none of which appeared! We frightened them off with civility and intelligence, I guess ! (the trolls that is)

Thank you, Mr Soros — I hope you have a chance to go through these comments at your leisure.

Blogs are much like investment markets — we respond in a flash to new information, while at the same time trying to discern long term trends and respond accordingly.

We are an asset to the cause of Open Societies, and we work to better the world for all of it’s inhabitants.

Thanks again for joining us . . .

A very big “Thank You” from me as well to the whole gang here at FDL and to you Mr. Soros for taking time out of your schedule to help “water the roots”.

Jenny from the Blog says
July 23rd, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Freaked Out Canadian – (snip) I love your idea!

Thanks, Jenny. It came out of watching Gore and Scott Ritter and realizing how they had been, and were still being, discredited by the media, in spite of having been right on almost every front. Glenn Greenwald wrote a great piece about Ritter at the time and, if you scroll down, you’ll see my suggestion in the comments.

But, there was no feedback, either positive or negative. I sent an email with the suggestion to Media Matters, figuring it would take a site with their resources to pull off something that comprehensive. Alas, I never heard back.

But, I still believe it would be a really positive complement to the documenting of ‘negative’ reporting that MM already does.

Eli,

You yourself point out an institutional problem. Incumbency fueled by money promotes corruption and as you yourself say it isn’t going away. In our country, one man one vote is supposed to be sacrosanct but elections, districting, and the irrational drawing of state lines undercuts this principle. It isn’t just the media.

*ilson46201 @ 4:43 pm (#248) – We frightened them off with civility and intelligence, I guess!

My theory is that a long-delayed shipment of Xanax finally arrived somewhere.

Hooray for *ilson and phalanx of shadowy moderators!!!

Hooray for Jane and Christy and George Soros and Michael Vachon and all of the thoughtful FDL commenters and lurkers!!!

Thank You, One And ALL!!!

I’m amazed there weren’t trolls. Especially since this time with Soros has been publicized for 2 weeks.

Maybe they just don’t understand high level ideas :)

I wish I could disagree, Hugh. I think the only possible fixes are to vote in congresscritters who are *so* principled that they’re willing to vote against their own narrow electoral self-interest (although I suspect that the goodwill they would accrue as a result would dwarf any campaign money advantage), or if the SCOTUS rules the current campaign finance and partisan redistricting systems unconstitutional.

Neither of these seem very likely to me, unfortunately.

I’m probably just restating earlier sentiments, but ‘The War On Terror’ has always struck me as an semantical oversimplification employed to conceal tangental imperatives, much like the ‘war on drugs’, the ‘war on poverty’, the ‘war on violence’…And most assuredly it is a false metaphor, as Mr. Soros writes.

What we instead face is a war of convenience…An endless array of marginally lethal strawmen to be propped up and knocked down in an ever-intensifying cycle of violent power acquisition and retention, with occasional domestic atrocities to be visited upon a coddled domestic populace when their enthusiasm, or bloodlust, wanes below the perceived requirements for such a war’s prosecution.

Let us put our best efforts together so that such a design is thwarted, now and forevermore.

We ARE an Open Society.

Thank yous all the way around – to Mr. Soros and to Michael Vachon for such an important discussion.

Thanks also to Jane and Christy for their dedication, and who, together with this wonderful group of commenters, never fail to challenge, inspire, excite, and encourage. I think that’s why I come here so often – it’s a ray of hope that it can and will get better, and proof that we can make a difference.

Peace.

Jane, Christy, Pach — and FDLers — thanks!

Also, sincere thanks to Mr. Soros.

I’ve spent too many hours sitting in meetings where people arrived with their minds made up, and had far too much money riding on the decisions that would be made at those meetings.

I’ve seen the market fundamentalism up close and it’s an environmental (and social, and ethical) nightmare. This book is very, very important — I would not have read it if not for FDL Salon.

I honestly don’t think the US would be in this mess today if more things like this had been possible 10 years ago.

Better late than never. No time to lose.

And… another motive is that I’m a complete sucker for Eli’s YouTube recommendations ;-)

Freaked Out Canadian -

Don’t give up because you didn’t get a response. Sometimes good ideas need to germinate a bit.

By the way, have you noticed a disturbing new trend in the way people use the word “fact”. “Your facts are wrong, etc.”, as if a fact is something plastic and maleable. When did a fact become an “opinion” anyway. That’s why the “two sides of every issue” has poisoned our way of debating. There is truth and there are lies, and lies don’t have to be presented to as a badge of fairness. It’s a corruption of our language and ideas.

And… another motive is that I’m a complete sucker for Eli’s YouTube recommendations ;-)

Aw, shucks. You probably do not want to encourage me…

Eli — I don’t think there’s any intrinsic problem with American institutional structures – the problem lies with the people inside those structures.

The system of checks/balances was deliberately instituted on the expectation that there would be “people inside those structures” that would be problematic. For most of our history, the checks/balances served us well. But the last five years have severely challenged the assumption that the system will correct itself. We don’t know whether it will or not; all we know at this point is that the incompetence and egregious actions of this Administration have reduced it’s popular support to 40%, and that the Dems may or may not regain control of one or both houses — and then do what? We still have Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield/Rice for two more years, and there is no clear evidence that they’ve learned anything, let alone had a change of heart. I read Israel/Lebanon’s agony as a loud “no.”

so the big question out there is whether the institutions and checks/balances we’ve always relied on are enough? I think the answer is “no,” and I don’t hear any public dialogue about what that means and what we do about it. We can’t even get more than a half dozen Senators to support a resolution to censure the President, when he’s clearly and deliberately violated the laws — and no one mentions the underlying reading of Hamdan, which says, “these guys committed and sanctioned war crimes!”

We’re hoping for a Dem house to do investigations. But as Buckley said today, in any European parliamentary system, this Administration would have been forced to resign by now. The fact that we’ve apparently lost the capacity to force that to happen is a serious problem for our country.

darkblack–ya, like V for Vendetta, created emergencies.

The system of checks/balances was deliberately instituted on the expectation that there would be “people inside those structures” that would be problematic.

The Constitution was a masterful piece of legislative jiu-jitsu to use politician’s fundamental selfishness against them. I don’t think they ever could have imagined that Congress could have so little self-respect as to cave to the president’s every whim, even at the expense of their own power and influence.

There is hope for our world and it is always in our own hands.

Empathic angie, daily I watch you suffer with and for people thousands of miles away in cultures vastly different from ours. Sometimes I think I can almost taste your tears.

Now look at you, giving yourself and us the truest mantra of all for surviving and prevailing.

You go, grrrl.

Thank you Jane, Christy and Mr. Soros:

This is the new open society and it’s good to have a place to bash ideas out…

I’ve no doubt that truth will prevail only if all work for it.

Thanks to everyone who made this thread happen!

It’s another big stride forward for FDL, validation from a really major “playa” on the world stage and a huge morale booster on a day that sorely needed one.

Sorry, in my 263, should read “reduced popular support to below 40 percent . . . ” The ether transformed the percent signs into something else.

OT, but here goes:

Forgive me if this has been covered already, but have you seen Joe Klein’s piece in Time? It’s not half bad and should cause Joementum some dyspepsia at dinner tonight.

I do believe the Kiss Float made a deep impression on him!

http://www.time.com/time/colum…..15,00.html

thank you, lotus.

Eli:

if you’re still here – what’s your blog? I like your thinking and would love to read more …

Eli, I’m too given to the Hermoine Granger view of life. I NEED those YouTube recommendations ;-)))

Thanks, kalina! Just click my name.

I don’t post political analysis as often as I should, unfortunately, but you can get a concentrated dose if you check out the “Multi Medium Manifesto” above my blogroll.

when Looserman has lost JokeLine, it’s a sign the DC rats are scurrying from that LieberDinghy — Biden will never catch that train now to CT !

Yes, Mr. Soros @185. I’d be honored! Sorry it took me so long, I’m cooking dinner.

I think we need to start being empathetic to people living thousands of miles away, because we are killing a lot of them and impoverishing others.

Once I read an article that discouraged such sentiments, saying, well you can’t do everything, what happens if a child dies in Russia, does it really matter? ACTUALLY that matters very much to me as I work to prevent child mortality there. It’s a peacemaking mission, and there will need to be a lot more of these in other countries including Afghanistan and the Middle East in the future.

In the meantime can we just stop killing so many people? And maybe stop supporting Israel’s war crimes against civilian Lebanese? Standard disclaimer no I am not an anti-semite, in fact I have a niece and nephew who are Jewish.

scarecrow @ 4:59 pm (#269) – Yesterday, this software swallowed a plus sign I was using to illustrate my arithmetic. I think this blog must be a math-free zone.

Eli, I’m too given to the Hermoine Granger view of life. I NEED those YouTube recommendations ;-)))

Hee. Ironically enough, I came very close to posting a Harry Potter video because it was the only one I could find with the song I wanted…

Eli at 274:

I got it, by the way we’re both in PA – how do like the new Santorum ads where he claims he’s soooo ‘ecological’?

In the meantime can we just stop killing so many people? And maybe stop supporting Israel’s war crimes against civilian Lebanese? Standard disclaimer no I am not an anti-semite, in fact I have a niece and nephew who are Jewish.

Hey, I *am* Jewish and I’m appalled too.

I don’t think there’s any intrinsic problem with American institutional structures – the problem lies with the people inside those structures.
I think one of the problems is that huge economic , multinational oligarchies can dominate most countries, and have the leverage to really battle the Western Democratic legal systems to a draw or better. This isn’t a completely new problem, Robberbarons for example, but I think there are few industries that are not oligarchic. Per Jack Welsh, if you can’t be number one or two, get out. A lot of components of the “free market,” simply no longer exist and the three branches of government are all having trouble dealing with this change.

like V for Vendetta, created emergencies.

Speking of V for Vendetta, on PRI’s Market Place, they had a segment on Comic-Con. V for Vendetta was originally a comic book, that was optioned and turned into a movie.

They interviewed another writer, that had turned a script proposal into a comic book, in hopes that it would be picked up. It makes sense, in a way — comics are the story board next step that allows executive producers to see what their mega bucks will become on the silver screen.

I got it, by the way we’re both in PA – how do like the new Santorum ads where he claims he’s soooo ‘ecological’?

I haven’t seen them, thank God. Sounds hilarious, though.

V for Vendetta was originally a comic book, that was optioned and turned into a movie.

I can’t recommend it highly enough. The movie stripped out some very interesting stuff.

Cujo359 — I always wonder where all those pluses go? Probaly EPU.

V for Vendetta as a DVD hits the stores August 1st … $16 at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ…..#038;n=130

If Bush could just explain to the Middle East that when we kidnap someone it’s “extreme rendtion,” and part of the War on Error. When someone else, like Hezbolah, kidnaps someone, it just kidnapping. Once they understand that, everything will be fine.

John Casper,

I don’t think there has ever been such a thing as a free market. The question for me is who regulates them and to whose benefit. I agree with the tenor of what you are saying: either way it’s not us.

new thread. Your Daily Ned.

Ned thread

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ily-ned-6/

Norske & Peterr – I agree we have to fight the metaphor (Norske always makes me want to put up a good fight *g*) but I just think we have to be read for some very devasting effects that go hand in hand with people abandoning the metaphor. Peterr – where you talk about the War on Sunshine – that ties very closely IMO to the discussion of truth and its place in an open society.

I got kicked off for a bit, so haven’t caught up, but I was hoping for a response vis a vis Iran to the issue Mr. Soros raised about the Russian weapons that will be installed this fall and whether things in Lebanon and area may be related to a US desire for a reason initiate a strike of some kind before those Russian weapons are delivered?

Hugh The real question for me is what has gone so wrong with our institutions and our system that the likes of Bush could run credibly for President at all let alone twice. NOt just the President either. There are so many members of Congress that seem incoherent or like 6th graders doing a UFO report. It is as if there is nothing about the institutions that generates integrity and thoughtful debate. Feingold really stands out on that front, and when you get someone like Murtha going on an area he knows – its really engrossing to be able to watch. But then we have Brownback and his “here is the egg, here is the Eagle, my children have told me to save the blastocytes so we can have Eagles – see, here is a handrawn picture of a crying blastocyte”

We have science policy so dumbed down that scientists cringe – but the loyal proponents are rewarded over the real scientists, we have the same with fiscal and educational policies. We’ve had soulnumbingly bad legal work and that imo is some of the most frightening, because poor skills and compromised integrity in the name of loyalism and in subjection to corporate interests being rewarded with lifetime appointments to the bench is a frighteningly long legacy of incompetence and immorality.

This is why God invented the internets. Thanks FDL. Thanks Mr. Soros.

Eli, with your interest in media, you really need to read all of Soros’s book — especially where he dissects the worldview in the US in which people EXPECT to be lied to and are not bothered by it. Which leads, not surprisingly, to the Feel Good Society that expects politicians to tell us what they think we want to hear. (Note comments today about the politicians lagging behind the public. In my view, politician’s lagging behind the public is a symptom, and Soros dissects its causes.)

I just about fell over from shock and relief when I hit that part of the book, and I’ve not seen anyone other than Lewis Lapham (and Jane) cover it so well. I think you’d like it.

Eli, with your interest in media, you really need to read all of Soros’s book

I probably should. I usually end up spending all my reading time here and on other blogs, though. I also need to read Greenwald and Alterman and probably a whole host of others.

*sheepish embarrassed face*

egregious @ 5:04 pm (#277) – Once I read an article that discouraged such sentiments, saying, well you can’t do everything,

I’ve never understood such thinking. Even from a purely cold-blooded standpoint, if we can make the rest of the world a better place for a very small amount of money, why not do it? We benefit, because they’ll be less likely to attack us, or they can continue to produce whatever we buy from them, or they don’t bring diseases over here that we could have prevented over there. We spend such a small amount of money on foreign aid, after you’ve ignored the military aid, that it’s peanuts. We could spend ten times that and not notice the difference.

Sure, you don’t want to get depressed all the time because the world’s not a wonderful place for everybody, but often as not such thoughts are used to rationalize doing nothing, or next to nothing, when an honest effort could actually help matters, but someone will complain that we’re spending money on the furriners again.

Following up on the substance of ROTL 294, do the people *know* they’re being lied to, or do they doublethink it out of their heads?

scarecrow @ 5:09 pm (#286) – They go to a happy universe full of other plus signs, and their friends the asterisks, slashes, exponents, and equals signs. Together, they form a diverse, productive, and fulfilling mathematical community.

Or they simply disappear. I’m never quite sure.

They go to a happy universe full of other plus signs, and their friends the asterisks, slashes, exponents, and equals signs. Together, they form a diverse, productive, and fulfilling mathematical community.

The logosphere?

The Joe Klein article was amazing. Linky at 270. Maybe we are getting in under his radar.

If everything is fine he can make ironic observations til the cows come home. I think he, and a great many others, are realizing that things are NOT fine.

We need to be there with open arms as they return to the reality-based world. It is embarrassing and humiliating for them and for many Republicans to realize just how wrong they have been. Have mercy on them.

Ever played Civilization? At the higher levels cities decide to change allegiance and come over to your culture. We are seeing this happen in real time.

Meanwhile the civilized world turns ever more against our little replay of Germany. They’ve seen this video before and they are not impressed.

readerOfTeaLeaves @ 5:15 pm (#294) – Wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve talked about some crooked politician or some lie a politician told, only to be told “Oh, they all do that”. If I did, I’d be able to afford to have them deprogrammed.

I think it’s just an excuse for laziness on their part.

Logos would be words not symbols.

Ali Baba 199 – Your comment crystalized some vague intuitions for me. Thanks.

Logos would be words not symbols.

I actually checked Wikipedia first…

Logos normally implies numbers, polls, and other mathematical or scientific data.

An important part of Mr. Soros’ message is that The Almighty Market doesn’t work for society, for people, only for money. This means there needn’t be a knock-down-drag-out over whose philosphy is right: neither is, they both are. Accepting the idea of fallibility is easier for paeople like us than for True Believers, who need someone, anyone, to be right.

The message of the right has always been that if we leave the market alone, it will take care of the poor and homeless (through churches) the drug addicted (lock ‘em up) and the infirm (medical Darwinism). ‘course, most people who sing the praises of the market are not economists but investors who desparately want it to be true.

Eli @ 5:27 pm (#304) – As in Logopolis?

I think I actually saw that, Cujo. I don’t remember a damn thing, though.

Mommybrain @ 304 -

Isn’t it remarkable how some people, perhaps without thinking, equate democracy with total economic freedom?

I ran across this informal review of an earlier Soros book. Some points I would quibble with, but I found it interesting nevertheless (from a geeky tech-ish perspective).

http://www.sysc.pdx.edu/download/papers/soros.pdf

John Casper says
July 23rd, 2006 at 4:36 pm
Freaked Out Canadian, I appreciated your deft description of “reconstruction” from the African American point of view.

I am sad to say that I was 42 years-old before I finally bothered to read the history of the “reconstruction”, Jim Crow, the KKK, and segregation.

I had the oddest experience of moral vertigo as the vague, hazy, optimistic, comfortable version of American history I half-knew dropped precipitously away.

For the first time, I had some sense of where the rage of black activists had come from…not just from their experience, but from the way that their experience had been whitewashed, supressed, denied and marginalized as it was folded into the mythmaking process of “history”.

That I had reached my fourth decade, and with two degrees to my credit, so utterly ignorant of the key elements of African American history struck me as genuinely shameful.

It’s why I believe so strongly in the need for a national monument and museum.

Pluses? Ya want pluses?
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
so there !

Mary says
NOt just the President either. There are so many members of Congress that seem incoherent or like 6th graders doing a UFO report. It is as if there is nothing about the institutions that generates integrity and thoughtful debate

This is the deadly result of the theocons determined efforts over the last 20 years to infiltrate the seats of power. They are classic underminers from within. In the 80’s they were taking over school Ray Bradbury books and Judy Blume and in some places Tom Sawyer (or was it Huck Finn?). And every time they pulled of those outrageous tricks, it seemed a little less outrageous.

It seemed so easy they expanded into the national arena. We were already desensitized on a local level; it didn’t seem so outrageous when it got to DC.

And then. came. Newt.

OOO, I accidentally edited out an important part of 304. Should be:

whose philosphy is right, the free marketeers or the social justice knights: neither is, they both are.

And in 311, too.

Should read:
In the 80’s they were taking over school boards and banning Ray Bradbury books and Judy Blume and in some places Tom Sawyer (or was it Huck Finn?).

My answer is that it is money. When money was equated with free speech by the SCOTUS, it sanctioned putting a pricetag on government. I think you and Mr. Soros have some common ground then – he used success instead of money, but they are almost interchangeable in this society. Truth has been something of a victime to success and the perceived ability of success to reshape reality and in essence, purchase truth.

If the President does it, it’s legal. The full force of the American Justice system was co-opted to say it. If we call it humane, it’s not torture. Again, full and complete co-opting.

I think the points about institutions, the people in them, and checks and balances is very interesting. I think that there has been a tremendous, disheartening, people failure in Justice, which should have at its core an independence that comes from the professional obligations of the lawyers involved – it’s been a sad and sorry thing to watch. The military has shown an interestingly strong ability to resist huge dollars and tremendous civilian pressure – even while remaining a tremendously loyal-to-civilian command instituiton. It’s been an interesting counterpoint to DOJ, on the one hand an instituion crippled by the people within, and on the other hand an institution intentionally crippled to keep it from becoming too powerful that has risen above limitations because of people within it. Not to say everything is all one or the other, but interesting.

The Judiciary has been a mixed bag as well, but failures there are pretty much directly at the feet of the US Senators. And they have been a TREMENDOUS people problem.

Non-pluses, you want non-pluses:
+ + + + + + + +

CODE is another tag that doesn’t work for the little people ;)

[ Elder Moderators have Special Protocols ]

One last quick thought – while a war on ham sandwhiches might unite Jewish and Muslims – isn’t Bush’s farm a pig farm?

I think the points about institutions, the people in them, and checks and balances is very interesting. I think that there has been a tremendous, disheartening, people failure in Justice, which should have at its core an independence that comes from the professional obligations of the lawyers involved

Pride, integrity, and professionalism have nearly deserted the halls of government – at least at the levels that call the shots.

it houses swine now …

Mary @ 5:49 pm (#316) – For the last time, it’s a pig ranch.

Eli: You might want to give the July 7th Topic a look….

It’s a Classified War
“The institutional press, its fourth estate identity, and what Ben Bradlee called a ‘holy profession’ (because ‘the pursuit of truth is a holy pursuit’)— these are all modern inventions. Their legitimacy derives not from the founding fathers but from the opinion of living Americans.”

http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubz…..ressthink/

Cujo :: check your comment at # 319

this disappearing pluses is mighty mysterious — the damn thing wont accept &-#-4-3-; either

Mary @ 5:47 pm (#314) – I think DoJ’s people problem is part of the larger war that both Bush Administrations have been waging on the civil service. At every oppurtunity, it seems, they’ve done the utmost to reduce the power of the CS. They stamped their feet until Congress agreed not to allow unions in the new Dept. of Homeland Insecurity, and they’ve been reducing or eliminating every GS job they can in DoD. The CS is one of the big bulwarks against abuse of power in government. The weaker it is, the better it is for incompetent and corrupt leaders.

*ilson46201 @ 5:55 pm (#321) – On my page, that’s 316. Yes, the pluses are there now. I don’t know why they don’t appear normally, they (and the percent signs) are a fairly ordinary character (it’s an ASCII character, in fact). The only thing I can think is that maybe they’re trying to prevent print formatting from within comments.

Thanks, ccmask! I’m working my way through it along with all the other stuff I have open, but I promise I’ll finish it.

LOL Eli: I hear ya!

Eli: Don’t miss reading the one called TPFKATA or The People Formerly Known as the Audience.

Christy:

A great little article about alternative fuel in the NYTimes today in the auto section (I read that avidly, go fogure!)

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07…..ref=slogin

Eli: Don’t miss reading the one called TPFKATA or The People Formerly Known as the Audience.

Okay. (That’s… us, right?)

Yeah, that’s us!

Thank you, FDL. Forever

Did you know the US just finished a major uS Base underground in Israel ?
True or false ?
W

Dear George

Sen. Bob Graham, Head the Joint Congressional 9/11 Inquiry, was interviewed (Dec 11, 2002) on the PBS Lehrer Hour and had this to say:

“I was surprised at the evidence that there were foreign governments involved in facilitating the activities of at least some of the terrorists in the United States….. I think there is very compelling evidence that at least some of the terrorists were assisted not just in financing – although that was part of it – by a sovereign foreign government … It will become public at some point when it’s turned over to the archives, but that’s 20 or 30 years from now.” (link) (link)

Do you have any idea which government he was referring to?

Do you think if we asked them nicely they might tell us?

The most important literay contribution to our current dilemna is the book “Critical Path” written by Bucky Fuller a few years before his death. Written in the context of the cold war but just as relevant today this book clearly sets forth the necesarry steps which must be taken to save humanity from its road to destruction. Our only hope is a design revolution which will bring all humanity to the highest standard of living imaginable. Politicians are obsolete as problem solvers as they think there is not enough to go around and that they get to decide who gets it. The truth of the matter is that Wealth is without practicle limit and through proper planning and distribution can be availble to all. It is not a case of bringing anyone down but instead bringing everyone up. We are only using a small fraction of the Energy coming daily from the sun to run everyting. Limitless enery combined with increasing intellect (we only learn more not less) can create a utopia for all. The question is will we choose “Utopia or Oblivion” which is the title of one of Fullers early books. Humanity most stop putting all it’s time and energy into myths and superstitions (the worlds not so great religions). “No more Second hand God” also an earlier book by Fuller. Now is time to make the world work for everyone in the shortest amount of time possible through spontaneous cooperation without disadvantaging anyone. Our most important task is to reeducate humanity to think in terms of success and not failure.

I would ask Mr. Soros to stop having anything to do with the Democratic Party. All of his energy and money are wasted trying to make political change using that tired old dinosauer that has turned its back on the American people in pursuit of wealthy corporations’ donations. Mr. Soros had a good idea trying to use some of his wealth to promote better politics in the US, but he chose to use a political party that has sold itself to the highest bidder long ago. Much has been written about the poor representation Senator Lieberman provides, but very little about how Sen. Lieberman represents the ossification of the Democratic Party’s policies regarding the best interests of the public good. I would say to Mr. Soros, either help form a new social democracy party or at least back the Green or the Socialist Equality Parties before givng one more dime to Democrats.

There’s going to be a new web based media service called the Real News later this year…google it in a couple of months. It’s going to be proper journalism (apparently…).

(CHECK OUT – Rob Newman’s “History of Oil” on Google video)

History when dug up from beyond the spin (and it has to be) reveals trajectories. For example, the western wars in the Middle East have been going full tilt ever since oil was discovered there.

It is THE fundamental base resource of our way of life.

However, the fact that our society is completely addicted and cannot live our way of life without it, the fact that MIddle Eastern oil is controlled by western companies and the fact that we have fought war after war for it for the last 100 years is obscured by one fiction after another.

Al Qaeda could never bring down the US. It is not a threat at all compared to the Peak Oil era we’re entering.

However American oil companies are about to make profits beyond the imagination of history as supply exceeds demand.

Americans pay for the war, Americans inherit the debts (China actually owns America these days), but the Corporations take home the loot.

More big facts – America’s debt will sink America as soon as oil is out of control of America. One of the reasons for what’s happening at the moment is the swapping of US $s for the Euro as the trading currency for oil (Iraq was the first in 2000….hmmmm???).

The fact that oil has been traded entirely in US$s has meant that the US currency has defied all laws of economics. Its value is not based on the condition of the American economy. It is based on the fact that without it, you couldn’t buy oil on the world market until recently.

The parlous state of America’s economy cannot be overemphasised. And it’s not just about this president.

America may have the strongest military in the world (5%of the world’s population, 50% of the world’s arms…that is 2/3 of it’s budget ) but it’s an industrialised war machine. As America’s economic industrial power wanes, so too will it’s military power. It may try to use it’s military power to maintain control (it’s doing it now), but this can only last for so long, as the comparitive industrial strength of China in particular starts to overtake the US.

The US debt bomb has got to go off sometime.

Still maybe this will mean we, however reluctantly, will collectively get our heads around alternative energy suppies and design a new economy around it to combat global warming, surely the biggest threat of all.