According to Political Wire :
In the Connecticut U.S. Senate race, Ned Lamont (D) has surged ahead of Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT) and now holds a razor-thin 51% to 47% lead among likely Democratic primary voters, according to a new Quinnipiac poll.
Joe’s internal polling must have told him this was coming because on the same day it’s being announced that Bill Clinton will be here in Waterbury on Monday to campaign for him and try and stop the hemorrhaging. Big Dog may not have taken it personally when Lieberman stabbed us all in the back with his speech on the floor of the Senate during the impeachment hearings, but many of us did. Loyalty to machine politics runs deep.
I spoke to Tom Swan, Ned’s campaign manager, who said:
We’re disappointed that President Clinton isn’t content to abide by the results of the Democratic primary, and we hope the President convinces Joe to respect the will of Democratic voters. We look forward to having him come back and campaign for us in the fall.
FDLers will have much to celebrate when we meet up with local bloggers, members of the campaign and the Kiss float tonight in Branford at the Owenego Inn:
Time: 7:00 pm
Address: 40 Linden Avenue, Branford, CT
How do you think Big Dog is gonna like the Kiss Float?
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Fitz!
FITZ!
Kobe
Hooray!
This is what I’ve been hitting “refresh” for all morning.
I guess Bill C could do Lieberman some good among minority voters, but I think they’re smarter than that, don’t you?
Why would they fall for Lieberman when they haven’t seen him in years?
Just because Clinton said they should? I bet not.
Speaking of dear Kobe, how’s he doing these days?
And isn’t it about time people found another name for Blair than Bush’s poodle?!
An insult to poodles everywhere!
Jane in CT! You go girl!?! ;->
I’m really disappointed in the Big Dog. Maybe I’m just naive. I wonder if we’ll ever elect leaders who won’t act like they’re in some exclusive club once they get in. Damn. That’s one more nail in your political coffin, Hillary.
What is Clinton’s strategy in this?
I don’t understand. This will not help Hillary in anyway. Maybe that 30-year friendship, but in spite of Joe’s Senate speech against Bill?
Clinton is a better man than I am.
Ya think the big dog can help that whining little weinie?
Maybe they’re testing the waters to see how bad off he is and what a force to be reckoned with we are.
That’s a huge disappointment but not really a surprise. Clinton has been giving Bush cover for years, no real surprise he would do it for Lieberman. After all the phone calls and letters I wrote on Clinton’s behalf ten years ago, while Lieberman was posing for pictures with Bill Bennett and Lynne Cheney, this is real kick in the gut.
Feh,Clinton’s just going so he can look up Joes skirt.
oooh! w/in the first ten?
Re: Pres. C.
Don’t-cha think he’s just showing party loyalty?
He’s not stoopid. He knows whatever mild little things he says won’t stop NoMoJo’s slide, just cushion the bottom a lil’.
Ned wins, & Mr. C.’ll be there. Betcha!
nertz, but elevenses is fine…go NED!!
I wrote this in an email last week regarding Bill’s comments at a conference, and was thinking about writing up a more lengthy post about it, but I just have not had time:
This is about two things from Bill: 1) promoting Hillary’s interests (payback for Stand By You Man or marital loyalty, take your pick), and 2) Preserving the political viability of his 3rd way legacy over and against the new people powered movement.
Either way, it’s not good for Democrats in the 21st Century.
Clinton nostalgia is not our friend, in our writing or our mentality. It keeps us looking back to apply strategic choices from the past into an entirely different strategic political terrain. Bill Clinton 2006 is a problem, not a hero to be emulated or accorded strategic or political deference.
Until we’re willing to make that argument clear in the party, we’ll continue to lose and weaken the party. The ‘08 primaries may get us there.
The analogue in my mind is to Eisenhower in the days of yore on the other side. The conservative movement recognized Ike’s centrist, sometimes liberal (for them) legacy and popularity were a problem. They ran Goldwater in ‘64 and got crushed, but the long term trend to discredit the Eisenhower apporach to politics paid off for them electorally. Rick Perlstein knows a lot more about this than I do, as what I get comes for the most part from his book Before the Storm.
Oohhh, I’d say AIPAC and other “friends” wiggled some treat in front of BIg Dog’s nose.
“We’re disappointed that President Clinton isn’t content to abide by the results of the Democratic primary, and we hope the President convinces Joe to respect the will of Democratic voters. We look forward to having him come back and campaign for us in the fall.”
Actually, that would be a good question to pose to the big dog. Will he support the winner of the Democratic primary and will he urge Lieberman not to run as an independent if Lamont wins the primary?
Boy, am I tired of all this talk about what an amazingly brilliant strategist Bill Clinton is.
If Bill Clinton campaigns for Joe Lieberman, it’ll just go to show the man has no pride. No pride at all.
The Big Dog can lick my dogs balls.
My prediction:
Lamont wins the primary, and Lieberman comes under intense pressure to quit the race and not force a divisive 3-way contest. Leaverman then mumbles a bitter farewell and takes a multi-million dollar lobbying gig with the defense industry.
w00t, I say, w00t!
hey Jane? Will you be going to the Pond House fundraiser?
Pac at 14. Your analysis sounds exactly right to me. I’m sick to my stomach that Bill would sell himself to preserve the Incumbancy Club. If your principles are negotiable, they’re not principles.
OT–BIIIG kerfuffle off camera at NAACP! YAY
How desperate do you have to be to ask someone to come out to support you who you publicly castigated and chastized in the well of the Senate on moral grounds?
That is just so upside-down and backwards as to fit perfectly into Joe’s campaign strategy. *g*
Bush is being audibly heckled by the audience !!!
Carrying on from last thread — CT has not made the Diebold move yet. We have the same mechanical voting machines we have used for 30 years. You go in the booth, and pull a big lever that closes the curtain behind you and sets the tally.
You pull down a tiny lever over the name of your candidate, and a red metal X is revealed. The machines prevent voting for more than one candidate per office mechanically.
After you have pulled the tiny levers for your candidates, you pull the big lever open — it opens the curtain and records your tally.
The numbers collect in the back of the machine, which is unlocked with multiple witnesses when the polls close.
I’ve lived here for 27 years, and don’t recall there ever being any sort of vote-counting problem with these machines.
Lots of yelling and someone on stage behind the preznit and he stops yammering briefly… now he brings up Condi.
yeehaw!
I’m not sure what the Big Dog is up to, but I’m sure he’s up to something. He’s one of the greatest politicians of all time, and he calculates everything out. I don’t see his angle here, though. Any guesses? I’m not buying any of the ones I’ve seen so far.
I just can’t believe Clinton has that much clout anymore in political races. I like the thot that his mutterings in support of the Lieb. won’t really influence voters, but might calm Joe down enuf that he just goes away after the primary.
At least I hope so.
CONGRATULATIONS JANE.
I called NARAL this morning with the new poll results. I asked them to reconsider their endorsement of Whinerman and shift it to the winner of the primary. I won’t hold my breath, but it sure was fun leaving the message.
I am stunned that Ned has overcome all those Whinermann endorsements. I felt like they were an avalanche.
With that said, your focus is exactly where it should be, assuming nothing and forward.
OT I cannot believe Clinton’s decision. Is he trying to piss off Hillary even more? Was this a deal, Hillary would support the winner of the primary if Bubbah campaigned for Whinermann?
None of it matters.
All that matters is that Ned keeps doing what he’s doing. Stay on message.
Loved your interview with him last night.
He really came across with the gravitas that we expect of a U.S. Senator. IMO he’s got tremendous cross-over appeal to all the Ct Republicans who still believe in honest government. Most of them don’t profit from K-Street either.
Where are you all watching this NAACP coverage?
J. Donne @ 19
He’s too busy with his own…
Do not underestimate the power of the Clinton electioneering for Joe. Bill is the best pure magnetic personality campaigner on a national scale in my lifetime besides JFK, RFK and (maybe) Ronnie Reagan.
I will say, as has been pointed out, that actual strategies like ‘triangulation’ may have fit the times, but you wage the last war, campagn or election without recognizing present political conditions ‘at your peril’.
Who still uses Lotus 1-2-3?
It’s wonderful to hear that Ned is ahead in the polls. I’m ignoring issues like MOE, etc. for now ’cause it just feels so good. I’m thinking Ned will widen that gap for the better.
Count me as a vote in support of Cosmo/#20 – Clinton, by offering some support, will be in a position to persuade Joe to not go independant.
My backup prediction is that Clinton will get up there and damn Leiberman with extravagantly faint praise. He could pull it off if he wanted to.
Anne– was on msnbc– now he’s pressing the flesh.
blech
Bill can help raise the big bucks — he came to town last week for Baron Hill, Democratic congressional candidate (Evan-Bayh-Democrat) — it had to be moved to a bigger venue coz the original was too small — he can draw a crowd!
Looking at bit into the future, I hope there is not a huge, depressing letdown if Lamont loses. There are so many things that look somewhat hopeful in the progressive world, but none of them really seem to be panning out much. Rove is still on the loose, all the Republican scandals that don’t seem to be making much of impression on “Middle America”, I would guess less than 20% of voters really know about Cunningham, Scanlon, Ney…
I sure hope Lamont wins, but with all the noise in the blogs about the possibility of him winning, I am hoping that we aren’t all setting ourselves up for a huge letdown if he doesn’t.
I know, I’m a cynic and a pessimist.
Here’s an explanation — EPU’d on the last thread — that bears thinking about:
Phil says
July 20th, 2006 at 7:59 am
Hillary needs HoJo to win so that the anti-war wing of the party is slowed down because she is not part of our faction. Remember Lanny Davis’s attack was surely given the green light by B&H.
If HoJo loses Hiilary chances for 08 are diminished.
kirby, I remember those same kind of machines from watching my parents vote in NM. (Way more than 27 years ago!)
Now here in Ohio, in the May primary in Cuyahoga County, they had trouble with the optical scanner and the absentee ballots. The ballots had heavier black lines than in other places, or something, and they finally had to hand-count 16,000 or so votes.
http://www.acluohio.org/newsce…..ws/?cat=12
If Bill Clinton campaigns for Joe Lieberman, it’ll just go to show the man has no pride. No pride at all.
No successful politician has any pride. Well the ones who come from money do. The rest have to beg for money compromise on things that are important to them and put up with fools they can’t stand. Clenis is no different as a dem insider he’s part of the incombent protection racket. The fact that joenertia tried to fuck him and has been screwing his party for a decade doesn’t matter. zell,joe is a like a made man in the mafia. No matter how big a douche the other mobsters protect him.
“Bill can help raise the big bucks.”
I agree, but that just got a hell of a lot tougher. Everybody can tell Joe to win the
effingprimary first.As a result of Whinermann’s “Plan B” there is now real doubt about who the Republican nominee will be. If Ned’s finance people can just get major donors to DELAY a decision until after the primary, that’s worth almost as much as scoring a donation to Ned.
I used to be a big Clinton fan but not any more.
Big Dog is not going to turn the tide in Ct. and will only weaken his own standing and that of Hillary’s. Too bad but this War is bigger than both of them and HoJo is toast…
Throw a blue dress on Joe on the float, and I think Big Dog will want some of the action.
See you folks tonight, I’m out the door in a few.
zeppo 39 — what’s this “we?”
We have always been realistic about the fact that Lamont would, in all likelhood, have a very difficult time prevailing against Joe’s influence and money. This is negativity predicated on revisionist history. Anyone “setting themselves up for a letdown” has only themselves to blame — I for one supported Lamont from the start for no other reason than that it was the right thing to do. If others have some kind of prevailing need to only back winners, please don’t blame us for it. You didn’t get that here.
I wouldn’t sweat this now. If Lamont takes out Lieberman, and Clinton then comes out for Lamont as the nominee, Joe is going to look pretty bad.
I kind of disagree,, I think clinot still packs some influence and this isn’t good for lamont
someone needs to slap bill top the head
oh.
I do believe in some commment or two I’ve made here in the last week or so decrying lack of polling I’ve come up with the prediciton of 48/48/4 when actual numbers got released. I also thought Ned would get 22% or more in the State Convention to make it onto the primary ballot. (IANPP/C/) I am no political pollster/consultant. I took one class in political/media analysis just before Clinton ‘92. We used a case study that analyzed the 18 months leading up the Helms’ reelectiion in 86 v. Jim Hunt. But some of that info stuck with me.)
Just beginners luck. But informed opinion based on facts helps.
Thanks Jane for all you do.
—–
Off topic: LTE seems like it’s gonna be Godot in real-life. Not published today. Again. If nothing by Sunday, I’m gonna create another timely piece for submission. I’m sure something will catch my eye to be worthy of comment.
I hate to be a wet blanket, but it’s a statistical tie.
Yeah, I know the poll shows Lamont up by 4%, with a MOE of 3.8%, but trust me: I do this for a living.
The MOE is only valid for each number – Lamont’s 51%, Lieberman’s 47% – but not for the difference.
If the two numbers were independent of one another, the MOE of the difference would be about 5.3%. But they’re obviously very strongly negatively correlated – if Lamont’s support goes up, Lieberman’s has to go down, and vice versa. And in a situation like that, the MOE of the difference is basically double the MOE of each number, or 7.6%.
Nonetheless, the poll results do translate into about a 65% chance that Lamont leads among likely primary voters, and that’s nothing to sneeze at.
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Today: Theyre in Vegas baby!!
We need your help – you can make a difference – contribute to the collective genius (and bring a friend). Thanks!
You must not know Ct. and our history of anti-war feelings. Big Dog is going to be smaller as a result of HoJo’s lose.
The DLC, the “third way” and NAFTA. Three evils supported by the huge dog and the even larger Senator dogette. Disgraceful.
I said some time ago that I thought that if Lieberman lost the primary, he was going to get a talking-to about bowing out of the race, and having the grace to leave with some dignity (assuming he will be capable of grace and dignity, that is). Lamont will easily beat Schlesinger in the general, I think, so it won’t be a case of CT losing a Democratic seat if Lieberman drops out after the primary.
He can drag all the old-guard Dems he wants into CT to campaign or endorse, but it’s my feeling that the presence of Bill Clinton or Joe Biden or Barbara Boxer doesn’t change Lieberman into the Senator that CT Dems are looking for. All it really does is confirm for many voters that there are other Dems who are just as cluelss as Joe.
Great catch lotus at 8:12
It sure explains a lot.
I can’t believe people who lived through Vietnam, such as Hill and Bill, “don’t get it.”
Occupying Iraq and Afghanistan is
*ucked in the headlose lose lose strategy.Jane @47: Sorry. No, I didn’t mean to infer that. I suppose I am feeling very negative about how things are progressing in this country. I suppose I was referring to all the progressive blogsphere when I said “we”. O.K., perhaps I should have just said me.
Have a great meeting tonight. Wish I could be there….
George told Bill about Joe’s lips. Bill just couldn’t resist.
-GSD
Oh yeah, Reportedly the Lebanese defense minsiter says the Lebanese army will join forces with Hezbollah if the IDF invades Lebanon.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S…..e/ShowFull
Has anyone seen todays WaPo op-ed on Plamegate, The Futility of Chasing Leaks”?
But there’s more futility — and fatigue — to come. The futility will be evident in the acquittal next year of Vice President Cheney’s former chief of staff, Lewis “Scooter” Libby, on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. The acquittal will be yet another symbol of the misuse of prosecutorial time that is the big problem with leak investigations.
…
To win a perjury case, however, a prosecutor has to prove that a defendant willfully made false statements. Libby’s attorneys will argue that his misstatement was an innocent mix-up by a top executive branch official who dealt daily with waves of reporters and a constant crush of domestic and international issues. It will be virtually impossible for the government to prove otherwise — beyond a reasonable doubt — when such a plausible defense exists and no conclusive evidence has emerged showing that his recollections of his contacts with journalists were intentionally false.
These wankers are saying that the elaborate web of lies–the fictional narrative–Libby told about hearing of Plame’s identity from Tim Russert was merely the mistaken recollection of a busy man.
I’m surprised that they didn’t throw in speculation that Joe Wilson’s indictment is imminent.
Jeeze.
Pach and Phil both nail it. We must remember that Clinton’s campaign strategy sucked all the air…and money…out of the entire rest of the Democratic campaign structure.
State legislatures were lost. State elected officials, i.e. Secs of State and governorships, were lost. Congress was lost. We are still in early innings–maybe even pre-season here, folks. It’s going to take us a long time to rebuild Howard Dean’s vision of a 50-State Strategy. We may have stumbles, missteps and losses along the way, but we must keep on getting better and better.
Day by day, campaign by campaign, issue by issue, we need to keep moving those small stones.
Granted that I’m a Clinton fan, but I see this announced campaign visit Monday as the result of Joe getting on the phone to Bill and begging him to come. Clinton is well-known for his loyalty, and for his inability to turn down requests from old friends.
Angie,
Did George Bush refer to Condi as a prop?
-GSD
zeppo 57 — wish you could be here, too. We would cheer you up, I’m sure ;)
Yet another reason to not support Hillary for Preznit.
And I wouldn’t worry to much about Independents in the generals. Indies are notoriously left-leaning on social issues, and generally more centrist on economic ones…and what does Lieberman actually offer those folks that Lamont couldn’t do better? Plus he’s got the hated Bush wrapped around his neck. Those numbers only show name recognition right now, and once Lamont is known, Lieberman’s support will plummet (assuming his campaign doesn’t completely disintegrate before then).
Keep the faith, folks!
Rats. EPU’d again.
About the Big Dog visit . . . .
May be not as stupid as it looks.
1) He knows whatever happens, Dems aren’t going to hate him, and
2) Could he perhaps take some pleasure in having the self-righteous HoJo come begging to him for help? How utterly humiliating for Lieberman, after what he did to Clinton in the Lewinski thing.
Also, it doesn’t harm Clinton to campaign for an incumbent Dem. That’s not exactly being a communist, however wrong-headed I may think it is.
Most of all, it makes HoJo look even more like the political opportunist hs is to say those ghastly things about Clinton and then use him for political survival when he needs him.
This latter just makes the contrast with fresh-faced and earnest Ned even moreso.
I don’t know if this angle has been vetted. But a couple of weeks ago Big Balls Bill was at a fundraiser and became visibly and verbally assaltive at a question about Hillary’s support for the war on Iraq. Given Joe’s support of chimpy’s little excursion into M/E could this be BBB motivation to support this credent.
zeppo at 39
Not so fast about that Middle-America-not-budging thingie…
Definite low but potentially significant rumblings in OH, anyway, I do believe/hope.
it’s gonna be a long long year, whew
don’t let up, but ya might want to keep the maalox handy.
PS, I can’t tell you how many times remembering your “small stones” has saved my sanity lately. A thing of beauty, that.
Yeah, GSD– wrt the voting rights act and he got a very few woohoos when he named her.
fyi– Kofi Annan speaking now on Lebanon on cnn.
Frank Probst #29,
Yes, I’m thinking the same thing. Bill Clinton is a deep-think politician, which isn’t that common these days. Perhaps I read too many books about political intrigue, but sometimes “helping” out is the best way to sandbag or change direction of someone. For all we know this is how Clinton gets inside Lieberman’s head to get him to abandon his independent bid.
Or it could just be giving a helping hand to major DLC candidate. I just hope there’s more to it, Clinton owes Lieberman nothing.
If B. Clinton campaigns for J. Lieberman, he endorses the Big Lie War.
That’s all there fuckin’ is to it.
Millineryman — I like it. Somebody should put on a blue dress and jump on the KISS float.
I think Glorfindel is right. Clinton is doing a favor for AIPAC and other high rollers quid pro continued support for Hillary. It is the same dynamic as the Marc Rich pardon prior to her first Senate run. (Ehud Barak and AIPAC wanted a pardon for Pollard, which Clinton could not do and got Rich as their second pick.)
Steve
Maura could do it, Jane!
Anon – the “we’re so busy we just forgot” defense might work if the people on the jury that hears the Libby case have their memories wiped clean, but with the accumulation of disingenuous explanations throughout this administration for why this or that was said, or happened, there’s a better than even chance that the jury isn’t going to buy it. Pat Fitzgerald would not have brought the indictments if he didn’t think he could prove the perjury from all directions.
Clinton is not going to sway any Democrats, and it is possible his help will turn off Republican and Indep. general election voters who would go for Lieberman. They’ll vote Rep. or stay home (with Bill C.’s face on the Lieberman team).
Except I find it hard to believe Clinton will extend his support to Joe if he loses the primary.
RT at 51: I think the other factor to add is the trend in the polls. If the relative standings were bouncing around, I wouldn’t take much hope from a poll that shows Lamont at the edge of the margin of error. But the trend of the few polls we’ve had has all been Ned’s way, and that’s nothing to sneeze at.
Jane,
Let’s see if we can get a blue dress volunteer tonight. Frankly seeing the HoJo figure in a blue dress is better. Wouldn’t take much
selise and I are still coming. Hope you got my e-mail yesterday.
Great news on new poll for Ned. On the Clinton visit, I assume it will be public (at least more public than the other LIeberloser ones. Can’t Ned supporters infiltrate (with or without hidden Lamont buttons) and use this as an opportunity to button hole Lieberman supporters to change their views.
OT. If Coulter did in fact send white powder to the NY Times as admitted. She should be arrested and brought to trial. It is like yelling fire in a theatre. Someone could have gotten hurt (stress from incident, trying to rush away from powder). She is also inciting violence by others who will put in something less benigh.
Who has an email address for President Clinton? I’d like to let him know why Joe is not a good choice.
OT — I could listen to Kofi Annan’s voice, in any language, all day and all night. So soothing.
btw, Scooter Libby was the lead attorney in the Marc Rich pardon …
AYLDT # 65,
It sure does make old Tokin’ Joe a pathetic case. Never thought of it that way.
Joe, who “boldly took to the senate floor to denounce” Dirty Bill for his indiscretions.
Now Joe is begging and pleading to be saved by the man he helped almost torpedo.
How do you spell weasel?
-GSD
ditto, lotus, and he speaks the elegant language of diplomacy– long unheard from anyone in our govt.
So I’ve got this really good idea for a group project or two [see Pulp Fiction]. My favorite is a group book entitled something like The Democratic Liberals Who Ate Cleveland that collects absurdities from the Right Wing Blogs, Coulter, Malkin, Rush, etc…
ahhhh– A dozen people in blue dresses, black wigs and berets, doing the can can on the edge of the kiss float–it would be funnier if they had big mustaches and hairy legs–, with a guy in a Droopy costume reading JoMo’s Senate speech on this in a megaphone.
RT 51
I thought I saw the MoE at 2%. The sampling was 2500 which seems large. At 2% then the spread is 4% total which makes for a dead heat. Still Ned is up a total of 18 over a month ago, there’s the momentum.
OT:
Voinovich wants Bolton renominated when his term expires, and declares that for Congress to oppose him would be bad for “our country, the United Nations and the free world.”
Click Me!
“Big Dog” has been kissing George H.W. Bush’s ass for five years now, so the kiss float won’t bother him a bit. Look what “big dog” did to the Democratic Party? He was the best thing that ever happened to the GOP. He gave them a Republican Congressional Majority and a Republican President. He gave them NAFTA to enrich all their greedy cronies. He gave them a cruel gruel called “welfare reform.” He did the DLC to the Democrats all along and his legacy is nothing but George W. Bush. I don’t know why ANY self-respecting Democrat would even like the guy. Where are the independent thinkers in this party!? Maybe that’s what’s wrong with Democrats–they just don’t get it. “Big Dog” is Joe Lieberman.
Anon at 8:26
Thanks very much for the link to the WaPo op ed.
Looks to me like a naked attempt by media attorneys to drive revenue from journalists who are rightfully scared of WH persecution.
From the article I am not sure either has read Fitz’s indictment. I am more confident neither has read the court filings that Christy, emptywheel, and others pour over, where the Judge keeps handing Ted Olson’s ass back to him in a sling.
It’s a shame they want to slander Fitz in attempt to improve their own billings.
Anyone who wants to let them know how you feel about this can reach them here:
http://www.judges.org/nccm/ncc…..anford.htm
Bruce W. Sanford
Partner
Baker & Hostetler
Washington, DC
bsanford@bakerlaw.com
Bruce D. Brown
Partner
bbrown@bakerlaw.com
kurt 88 – you gotta wonder what kind of drugs he’s been taking.
Clinton’s campaign strategy sucked all the air…and money…out of the entire rest of the Democratic campaign structure.
That is absolutely correct — in 1996, Bill Clinton turned the DNC into a rubber stamp of the Clinton/Gore campaign. The DNC ran identical ads, with only a different disclaimer.
In the meantime, generic support for Congressional Democrats had fallen 7% among older voters, between January and June.
Clinton sucked all of the political oxygen and money, and the GOP held on to their House Majority — which was a green light for Ken Starr.
Bill Clinton is a charismatic politician, but he’s also a heliotropic narcissist. He is conflicted about doing good for all and doing good for Bill Clinton. When they coincide, Bill Clinton is great; when they don’t, we get CAFTA, Welfare Reform, and HoJo fluffing.
I think every one is right about AIPAC, big donors, Hillary’s campaign, but don’t forget Clinton’s psychology: Having one of his leading critics forced to ask him for help, what a boost to that needy high chair king ego! I think this is the same motive behind his friendship with the Bushes: getting the people who said all those nasty things about him cite their friendship and Clinton’s support for them….
as Molly Ivins says, the sumbitch is good, no doubt about that.
angie, I wonder if KA drops his gs in French too.
Back atcha, lotus. And empathy on your concerns about your friend. If you want to talk about it, you’re welcome to email me at PrairieSunshine at msn dot com. I’ve walked in your moccasins….
Scrambly day–CT Nedheads, you rock! Will be fun to read more later.
As for the statistical tie of the poll, it’s really bad news for Lieberman. Incumbents under 50% are in trouble, plain and simple. And when it’s against a primary challenger—within your own party—that can’t be a good thing at all.
Maybe the Kiss Float needs a black beret and bright red lipstick on the Bush head in time for BigDog’s visit. I bet Bill would understand its toxic symbolism better!
This is rich.
I believe in Saddam’s Iraq they were known as “minders”.
“MORGAN CITY, La. — Residents of trailer parks set up by the Federal Emergency Management Agency to house hurricane victims in Louisiana aren’t allowed to talk to the press without an official escort, The (Baton Rouge) Advocate reported.”
http://www.firstamendmentcente…..x?id=17178
-GSD
I can understand Clinton helping Lieberman here. I have long suspected that Clinton urged Lieberman to give the impreachment-era speech on the Senate floor, as a way to let the pressure out of the tire, as it were. Plus they go back 3 decades.
But who impressed me was Swan. Tom Swan handled that issue perfectly. I suspect that the reason that Lieberman is behind this soon is that Lamont has people like Swan, and Lieberman has people who will let reporters think for an entire news cycle that Lieberman is gonna bolt to take the GOP nomination if he can get it.
Gilliard weighs in on the Clenis visit. Includes HoJo’s entire floor speech chastising Big Dog over his moral lapses.
Steve closes thusly:
How about a great big SOUND TRUCK, in the area near Clinton’s endorsement speech… replaying Lieberman’s scolding of Bubba on the Senate floor?
‘Cuz it’s kind of hard to be endorsed by somebody, when that somebody is busy being scolded by the guy he’s endorsing, for having a loose pants fly…
(And again, folks, like the deadly “The Kiss”… just GET IT ON THE NEWS…)
p.s. to Bubba: Sorry, pal, but if you’re gonna be “pragmatic” here, like some sort of DLC John McCain… we gotta BRING YOU DOWN. You’ve stayed too long at this party, anyway, and our obligations to you as loyal Dems have all been met. Have a nice retirement.
He only drops harsh and hard g’s like we have in english, lotus. french is mellifluous, like him. ;)
Thankfully he brings up Gaza now.
Prairie Sunshine at 60: Not to mention that the DLC’s “contribution” to strategy discussions is always “look, Clinton was elected President, so taking our position will win elections! (As long as you don’t look at any other election since we’ve existed.)”
Possibly Howard Dean’s biggest success has been to remind the powers that be that it’s the Democratic National Committee, not the Democratic Presidential Committee.
Bill is a great speaker, and I respect him a lot, but I don’t think he’s going to change a lot of minds in CT. I just hope he realizes that. And I would have respected him more if he’d taken a page from Al Gore on the race.
O/T, CODE BROWN Wag-the-Kim CNN news banner:
BREAKING NEWS:
Iranians were believed to be present at North Korea’s July 4 missile tests, assistant Secretary of State Chris Hill, the chief U.S. negotiator with Pyongyang, testified today.
Good news on the Iraq front. Attacks in Baghdad are up from the same time last year.
This is an obvious sign that the insurgents are desperate.
“U.S. spokesman Maj. Gen. William Caldwell said there has been an average of 34 attacks a day against U.S. and Iraqi forces in the capital over the past five days. The daily average for the period June 14 until July 13 was 24 a day, he said.”
-GSD
All I can say is: Wow!
Lets hope this happens.
Maybe Clinton’s jealous of the action Joe’s been giving Bush.
Connecticut? Multiple blue dresses & CA-style campiness.
Please no. Leave it at the kiss float.
Grew up in New England. Please trust me on this.
Could backfire for Ned.
[no. I’m not a prude/party pooper but, last I looked, down east is still down east. and savvy would still counsel not going ‘over the top’ IMHO]
Remember that HoJo ran as an anti-war Democrat(70’s) and now wants to be a pro-war Democrat in the darkest Blue of Blue states. No chance in the primary but maybe in the general, and that is why Bill, Hillary, Lanny, DLC, and others are going all out to stop Ned now and weaken the anti-war movement.
GSD 83
I try to put myself in the mindset of Mr-&-Mrs-America who aren’t that interested in politics.
Believe it or not, I know quite a few of them.
One notable couple comes to Austin from their retirement ranchette out in the Hill Country to have dinner with us every month or so.
He is retired NASA, amateur astronomer, and reads Time Mag every week to maintain his Good Citizen creds. She was a flight attendant, a stay-at-home mother and is an active artist. She doesn’t think political stuff affects her life, and they hate, hate, hate fundie Christians.
They both despise Bush, having lived through what he did to Texas in the 90’s. He can’t believe the election was stolen because “it would be impossible to keep such a large conspiracy secret” and besides, Time would have told him so, if it were true.
So I sound them out when we have dinner together, and I have a pretty good sense of how they look at things – - especially if I squint.
That’s how I saw Liebermann as looking like a political opportunist for getting Clinton to campaign for him. I’m pretty sure Pete and Cindy would see him that way.
The trick will be if anyone from CT remembers Lieberman’s moralistic scoldings from 8 years ago.
I think we need to make them remember it, but specifically, not through fun stunts.
The Q-poll is excellent news for Lamont. Just think of the progress since earlier in the year from 35% down to 4% up, and half of that change made up in the last month alone (IIRC).
This fantastic turnaround demonstrates three things clearly: 1) Lamont has become an excellent campaigner in touch with his party’s voters, 2) he has assembled a great campaign staff, and 3) the opposite is true for Lieberman.
The Lieberman campaign must be in deperate straits. If they assume that Lieberman will not win, than at all costs Lamont must be kept from a big margin of victory say 10% or better. Such a margin could kill their independent campaign in the Fall. That means the Lieberman campaign will have to go fiercely negative, much worse than heretofore, on Lamont to stop his surge.
As for the Clintons, and other old-time colleagues who endorse Lieberman in the primary, I don’t mind that. They are simply demonstrating loyalty to a long-time friend and colleague; ironic since Lieberman himself runs a big deficit in the loyality quality. It is just these old-time friends of Lieberman, who after he should be defeated on August 8, are the ones who will have to turn on him in the general election. Every Democratic candidate running in a close election in CT or elswhere will be asked the same question: do you support your party’s nominee in CT for the senate or do you support the disloyal Lieberman?
I dunno, heavy Monica symbolism really rubs me the wrong way. Sure, it was one of Joe’s most shameful moments, and the one with relevance to Clinton’s visit, but it just doesn’t seem good for Democrats for us to try to shame Bill with it.
Bill has been sent by his DLC wife. He said it himself: ‘When she’s president I’ll do whatever she says’ (paraphrase). After all, she is one of his senators. His schmoozing with Daddy Bush also disgusts me. Will the Democratic Party ever get beyond the Clintons?
Bruce at 8:42. Thanks for a terrific comment. Never heard that before about Bubbah orchestrating the Whinerman speech, interesting.
I hope you are right about Swan.
I think Democratic Party is beyond B&H but MSM loves to push them on US.
GSD, your 98 pairs with this from LAT:
. . .and your little dog, too at your 110
oooooohhh… You’re good at this stuff.
Re-read that post, folks. She’s got the antennae and the touch.
Thanks …AYLD,T ;->
GSD @ 98 –
That’s why we are a “proto-fascist” country as opposed to full-blown fascist.
TeddySanFran, I love that idea: lipstick and black beret on Bush, on the Kiss Float.
What an image!
Here’s my guess: When Big Dog said he thought it was wrong for a Democrat to challenge one of his own he was referring to Lieberman and his threat to go independent. If Joe did that, he would be challenging Lamont as the rightful winner of the Democratic primary. Note that Clinton didn’t mention anyone by name.
I think he is going to make a good faith effort to support Joe. What are friends for after all? But, I also thinkt hat he is going to come down hard on Joe if he loses and decides to go independent. I wouldn’t be suprised if he was being sent to CT to deliver a message to Joe.
Adie 108
I sure do agree with you.
Didn’t want to be a party-pooper and the speculation is fun, but on something like that, it’s good to look at the possible outcomes – - good vs bad.
There are too many bad possibilites compared to the one or two good ones. Our own glee and snarkaliciousness isn’t necessarily shared by regular citizens.
I think my friends Pete and Cindy wouldn’t like it.
Thread Theorist, I agree, the slope on the curve of Ned’s surge is unbelieveable. It looks like the surge in FDL’s traffic.
Anyone got a visual on that? Ned literally came out of nowhere.
Politics 101 –
Dont’ you see that by having the Big Dog stump for Lieberman Hillary gets to have it all ways, as usual. She says she will support the primary winner, which the netroots/blogosphere loves and thus has cover with them; then she sends the Big Dog to campaign for HoJo, so she has cover with pro war, or pro anything else, Lieberman’s supporters.
Hillary is easy to figure out. She “covering” all the bases, the friend of anyone and everyone, and never met a political position she didn’t like (at the time). Sad but true.
you-all will be amused by http://www.WhoIsJoeLieberman.com now
Washington Post intelligence reporter Dana Priest will be online Thursday, July 20, at 12:30 p.m. ET to discuss the latest developments in national security and intelligence.
Never mind that ‘big mutt’…We’ve got m*********ing shakes on this plane
;>)
I think we can inundate clintons office with “why are you hurting the party?” and “don’t you understand lieberman is a republican draining our resources?” and “if tou support him you are supporting the lies that took us into war”
this guy is the guy that gave his friggin impeachment some kind of legitimacy
clinton needs to be spoken to
My God, *ilson, how do you DO that?!
Genius!
The blue dress event – while i’m sure it would be fun – is not likely to do Ned any good.
Just saw this in the WP Fix column:
This will lead the way for all elected Democrats or candidates in showing that loyalty to old colleagues only goes so far: in the primary but not the general election.
Quentin: Will the Democratic Party ever get beyond the Clintons?
I’m with you. I wonder if the Democratic Party will be able to defend itself against Hillary Clinton.
*ilson, that’s brilliant! Love it!
me to me
I’m in. Got an email addy?
Per lotus at 9:04, well done *ilson.
at 14 said: “This is about two things from Bill: 1) promoting Hillary’s interests (payback for Stand By You Man or marital loyalty, take your pick), and 2) Preserving the political viability of his 3rd way legacy over and against the new people powered movement.“
Number 2 is BINGO. I had to scroll back who nailed it, and I shoulda known it was Pachutec.
This is about protecting the status quo, which, of course, the former president and his shrewish dowager wife are heavily invested in. Chuck Schumer, Rahm Emmanuel, and all the DLC guys will get a black eye if/when Lamont wins. The buzz will be about “change” in the Democratic Party.
No, no! We mustn’t have that. We lovessss the preciousss! Nassssty, tricksy Ned! Must crush him, we must.
Yeah, I’m sick to death of Clinton. I went out and marched around with a sign in support of Bill back in 1998 on the day of the House impeachment vote. A huge demonstration in L.A. in front of the VA Building. (Was anybody else there?) All for this guy and his selfish right to stick a dick in some fat-chick’s mouth. I still support that right, but I resent the bastard everytime he screws us over like this.
Remember right after Katrina, when he sat there with Bush Sr. on CNN and said, oh, no, nobody could have foreseen something like this happening in New Orleans, it’s not poooor lil’ Bush’s fault. And remember back in 2003, when he couldn’t rush fast enough to get on TV and say that he thought Iraq had WMD’s too, so it couldn’t possibly be Bush’s fault if there weren’t any really there.
And that worthless wife of his, oh what a gem, the second-biggest cheerleader for this clearly fucked-up war, right after Holy Joe himself. And she’s the “presumptive nominee” for the party in 2008, according to the media, so everytime she speaks, she hurts us a thousand times more than Joe. Joe is just our voodoo doll for torturing her through sympathetic magic.
So of course Bill has to stop the pain.
Don’t know if this has already been posted, but here is some clarification on the Bill Clinton support.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/
I can’t really take credit for the http://www.nedlamont.com/page/content/404page/
page — Kobe ordered me to do it !
Adie 117
Blush.
Do I sound like a sadder but wiser woman?
I think any insight I might have comes from that. Well, that and reading Shakespeare and Dickens. :)
Joe must have snapped his panties.
All together now: Bill Clinton, best Republican president of the last century.
Utterly unsurprising.
…AYLD,T 121
Ha ha! Great minds . . .
Same MO: Run it by [Pete & Cindy] and see how it “feels”. (duh, not literally, but in yer mind – I know that)
That old “walk in the other guy’s moccasins” rule-of-thumb has multiple uses, eh?
*ilson 124 – that’s a thing of beauty
I certainly defer to the judgment of folks on the ground in Connecticut regarding stunts for 42’s visit. Kinda fun to submit our ideas, though, isn’t it?
I’m willing to believe Bill’s the stalking horse for convincing RGJoe to fold on 8/9/06. Who better to tell Joe what’s the right thing to do but W’s Daddy’s new favorite son?
Personally, with regard to the Clintons, I have
========
Had Enough
========
Look at the trend line inside the current poll numbers:
That is an 11 point improvement for Lamont, and 7 point decline for HoJo — in one month!!! While past performance does not predict future results, if this trend continues, the August vote will be a solid Lamont victory.
While HoJo’s war chest can buy him mailings and air time, his total lack of a resonant message means that no matter how much he pushes it, the voters of Connecticut aren’t buying.
It’s still an uphill battle for the Nedster brigades, but the HoJo sinkhole is getting deeper every day.
*ilson46201 @ 124
Nice touch.
Any chance Lamont can get Gore out for an endorsement…
Snap
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5199088.stm
Meanwhile . . .
More Than 1,000 Iraqi Families Fled Homes Last Week
By DAMIEN CAVE and JOHN O’NEIL 31 minutes ago
The migration ministry called the statistic “a dangerous sign” that sectarian violence is continuing to reshape the country into sectarian cantons. […]
About the blue dress…I think that’s a backfire waiting to happen. It reminds voters that Lieberman stood up and spoke out against Clinton’s activities, which could have some appeal for those who never liked Clinton and thought he was a pig, and who admired Joe for speaking out. The speech, in turn, also reminds voters that Lieberman is not a liberal Democrat like Ned is (even though Bill is not nearly the liberal people want him to be) – again, advantage Lieberman.
Clinton standing up for Joe – with no blue dresses in sight – just looks like the last gasp of a dying politician, so anxious to retain his hold on “his” seat that he is willing to take the support of someone he once talked about like he was something icky on the bottom of his shoe.
I’m thinking that the less fuss made about Clinton’s visit, the better. Imagine a low turnout for the event – doesn’t that say even Bill Clinton can’t bring out voters for Lieberman, way better than dredging up the whole blue dress thing?
Adie @ 108: Okay, okay, I totally believe you’re tight-assed, blue-nosed New Englander. No argument from me. But the “Kiss” float… and the numbers… do math much? THE MESSAGE WORKED. 2006’s New Englanders, apparently, are not the lobster fisherman of 1956, to which you’ve relegated them as stereotypes.
Stick with what’s working. Netroots tactics and in-your-face populism never had a more opportune moment, than in the up-is-down and black-is-white “Through The Looking Glass” era of the Bush reich;
Redshift @ 112: Define “Democrats”. As I posted a little earlier, we gave at the office, when it came to Bill. Clinton and his political pragmatism had their time in the sun, but it’s 2006. Could you ever have imagined a world like Bushworld?
No, and that’s the point. Bill served his purpose, in making the Democratic Party electable again, in a post-Reagan culture. He did his “DLC” thing and, combined with his other-worldly charisma, it did the job.
But today, Bubba and his triangulating wife (who represents “liberal” New York by supporting a host of Republican causes, including the death penalty, and “winning the war”) are part of the problem.
The Lamont/Lieberman smackdown in Connecticut is nothing less than the first critical battle for the soul of the Democratic Party. Who’s gonna claim it, the DLC’ers… or the netroots?
Repeating what I told Adie, above: it’s working, we’re winning, let’s not blow it.
So screw Bill Clinton. Wave around all the blue dresses you can find in your closet, and most of all, get on camera doing it!
Disapointment that the war and oil machine run so thick.
the simplest thing the NedFolk can do at the Clinton event is to handout “The Kiss” buttons. People that adore Clinton despise George Bush so linking Cut’n Run Joe to Bush will be poisonous to Big-Dog-idolators …
No blue dress theater, people. A gift to Joementum waiting to happen.
If anyone does it I’d expect them to be paid Lieberman plants.
Anne says
I’m thinking that the less fuss made about Clinton’s visit, the better. Imagine a low turnout for the event – doesn’t that say even Bill Clinton can’t bring out voters for Lieberman, way better than dredging up the whole blue dress thing?
it does indeed. Having our folks safely indoors within visible range of the HoJo event and only coming out if there is a big turnout would very much send a message. If it is a small turn out, let it be and make it’s own statement. If there is a crowd, then Ned’s folks can work the crowd.
It’s almost as if the people at FDL are sitting in one of those no longer smoke filled rooms talking through a variety of strategies before settling on a plan. It’s fun to brainstorm and kick the ideas around– and then come back down to earth.
Wow. I am bummed about this. But, he is the centrist to beat all centrists, so maybe he thinks he’s preserving his own legacy.
One point. Clinton knows he won NH the first time by actually shaking the hands of every 1 of n voters there. (I forget the actual number but it was low) He knows Joe won’t do that. If this is Clinton’s only appearance in CT, then I think it’s out of a sense of decorum and that’ all it will be. If he keeps showing up, then we’ve got a problem.
Clinton knows how to put ideas to words. It will be interesting to see if he talks eloquently about respecting the party and standing behind the voters’ wishes as he stumps for Joe’s ring…
Gilliard on Bill O. You have to see the graphic.
LOL
Ixnay on the blue dress. Will backfire. I lived in New England for a long time.
Barry C, insulting Adie won’t buy you any friends or even cred here. Just sayin’ . . .
Barry – agree that The Kiss float worked, along with the buttons and stickers, etc., but it worked because it tied Lieberman directly to Bush, and it’s Joe’s Republicanization that is killing him in CT.
What does the blue dress accomplish for Ned? It’s ancient history, and just reminds voters that Joe spoke up against Bubba’s sleazy behavior – that’s a point FOR Joe, not against him, and if you’re trying to sink JOE, it doesn’t work.
Better in my mind is that hardly anyone shows up for the Clinton appearance, other than the Kiss float strategically placed where it’s in all the media shots, and Joe just looks like the sad excuse for a Democratic Senator he really is.
OT
MyDD Net Neutrality update. Reporting Dorgan has the votes needed.
I think Bill is playing this cleanly. Look, he’s known Lieberman for years. Hell, he even worked on Lieberman’s bid for the State Senate 30 years ago.
By making this stump for Lieberman now, he can then easily do the same for Lamont should Lamont win the primary. He’ll have fulfilled all obligations to the incumbent, a friend, and later the party.
Sorry, I’m not pissed at Bill for this and I can only imagine that a visit by Clinton will be a nice reminder of the ties for Repubs who are considering voting for Lieberman, and who are a bigger threat to Lamont than their own candidate. I don’t think Clinton will be changing any Dems minds considering we seem 80% entrenched on our candidates at this time.
And just think of how nice it will be if Clinton comes to CT after the primary and stumps for Lamont and perhaps speaks about loyalty to the party. :)
1,208 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOES ON AND ON AND…
Big Dog’s mission is to present the corporate- Republicrat-DLC face for Joe in order to run in front a Hillary so’s she ken scoop up the wreckage and the corporate dollars when Joe falls. I think we ken see clearly now…look at all the AIPAC and DLC elected folks in positions of influence who have ties right back ta the last 4 years of Clinton Republicanism (Rahm, Schumer, Steny Hoyer…).
This is Hillary’s last gasp, if Joe loses, the Corporate-DLC “alternative” to Bushco fascism is in deep trouble. What needs to happen is for a complete and devastatin’ Lamont victory to convince the existin’ elected leadership that it ken happen to THEM.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS WAR HAS JEST STARTED BUT THE ENEMY IS OUT IN THE OPEN NOW!!!
Love me some RevDeb’s 159!
Looks like Dewine was caught in a bit of a lie
>>>>>>>>
The controversial video of the burning World Trade Center towers in a television campaign ad for Ohio Sen. Mike DeWine is doctored, U.S. News has learned. The television spot, which has been lambasted by critics as a political exploitation of the Sept. 11, attacks Democrat challenger Rep. Sherrod Brown for being weak on national security.
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/n…..winead.htm
Ironony would have Joeloser knocking just enough shine off Clinton in the past that he now does not have the power to lift this pico loser from the ashes. Kinda like the shine he helped knock off America.
Just like the DLC and others did not want Hackett,and got him before a primary, they do not want Ned to win going into 06 because of the influence this will have on the message going out by others. Hold on to your seats this is going to get ugly in Ct., but Bill will not say one bad word about Ned.
Sonoma at 71:
If B. Clinton campaigns for J. Lieberman, he endorses the Big Lie War.
That’s all there f’ is to it.
————-
I guess you summed it up in plain terms – it would be hard to argue that.
Whatever you think about Bill Clinton, he is a great asset to the Democratic Party. He is the most gifted campaigner we have. One reason is that he can communicate how much he cares about real people and they respond. You can disagree with him, as I do, about strategy or his opinions on something, but trashing him publicly with tacky reminders of one of the worst episodes in our political history is not smart, in my opinion. It makes Lamont’s supporters look like the kids you can’t take to a restaurant because they start throwing food.
I believe that Bill will support the Democratic nominee. In the meantime, I would not be doing things that would cause him to rethink that.
so now it’s the Clintons who want to have it both ways? That’s so transparent that it’s clear as mud.
I’m not going to take a position, but there’s a lot of pluralism on this thread between posters and commenters wrt the “blue dress.”
*peeking out from behind Pach’s broad shoulders*
Barry Champlain 149, you big brave bozo you.
I admire your, um, “piquancy”, I think it was, that some sweet soul attributed to me upon seeing an over-the-top rant I indulged in t’other day.
Yeehaw & WahHoooooo & Heavens ta Betsy! Run git yer pearls & berets & petticoats & peeeeerayde any place yer lil’ heart desires. And by all means git a picture.
Then go take a shower and have a little lie-down.
There. Feel better? ;->
((((peace))))
This is on topic, I promise:
Okay. I take it back. Maybe we’ve slipped into fascism, except not everyone has been told yet. That’s a truly horrific story about that judge.
I have a prediction: Sometime in the next chunk of years, “things” are going to start happening to people in power positions, like that judge.
What I mean is, when a certain number of people (call it tipping point, we used to call it critical mass) realizes the system is stacked against them, is unfair, their need for redress doesn’t go away. And redress will be had.
Anarchy happens when the law doesn’t serve the people. It’s one thing to cry fascism (as I do on occaision), but fascism only holds until it doesn’t; it isn’t self-sustaining. Democracy is the only self-sustaining mechanism for political organization.
That judge’s words to Aurora Gonzales were no different than if he had said “f*ck you.”
When Joe Lieberman says to his party, “If I lose the primary, I’m going to get my name on the ballot anyway in hopes of defeating the candidate you chose,” it’s no different than if he has said “f*ck you” to the voters.
F*ck the people, hard as you like, and they will suffer and grumble and adjust. F*ck the people past adjusting, and they start tearing down the Bastille and chopping off heads.
Joe’s head might be the first on line, but maybe not. He might obtain pleasure from a three-way in November and slink into the senate, a soiled and untouchable gollum of a senator.
Joe Lieberman’s or Judge Bruce R. Fink’s figurative heads may not roll this time. But if representatives continue as they are, not representing, eventually someone’s privileged head will. And when the f*cked-over masses realize how sweet is the taste of satisfaction, what community’s gates will hold?
Re: What is the Big Dog thinking?
a. Maybe he has extracted a promise from HoJo to drop out if he loses the primary, in exchange for Clinton’s enthusiastic support now.
b. Maybe Clinton is being diabolical – he thinks HoJo will lose the primary, and that his (Clinton’s) support will piss off Repubs and Indies in the general, thus helping Ned.
c. Or maybe he’s just being an asshole.
c.
Didn’t Clinton campaign for Gray Davis in the recall election?
I’m just sayin’ . . . .
I might have wanted want to leave a comment, but now I am a little timid about it , having been roughed up by some of you on the previous thread. So, back to lurking and smirking (while I consider deleting FDL from my favorite places).Thanks Anne for your comments.
Hay Thurston Howell IV, if you think we give a rat’s ass about what club Ned belongs to during this time of lies and War, you had better go back of HoJo’s HQs and tell them that’s a dog that won’t hunt.
I might have wanted want to leave a comment, but now I am a little timid about it , having been roughed up by some of you on the previous thread. So, back to lurking and smirking (while I consider deleting FDL from my favorite places).Thanks Anne for your comments.
I’m not shy about political theatre, but Blue Dress Theatre is a bridge too far.
Kiss buttons, and Kiss float, hells ya baby, I’m all over that action.
We want to increase the pro-Ned vote, not suppress voter participation entirely due to disgust.
puppethead @ 96 – no question, a statistical tie is bad news for Lieberman. Just sayin’ the primary isn’t a done deal yet; no time to sit back.
Oh, if you can find more quintessential firedoglake than Adie’s 171 and LindaR’s 172, my hat’s off to you.
RAH!
Pach @ 152:
“If anyone does it I’d expect them to be paid Lieberman plants.”
With all due respect, stop thinking for a second about Joe’s attempting to game the results of the primary, by doing that.
Think instead about the TOTAL ABSURDITY of inviting a man to appear with you, whom you lambasted from the floor of the U.S. Senate, for having a droopy zipper… AND THEN, WHEN HE ARRIVES, DOING IT AGAIN.
This just isn’t done among cordial, establishment Dem colleagues. The possibility alone that Hillary would fly to CT and throttle Joe personally, simply wouldn’t be worth it! :-)
I reiterate my earlier point: the Clintons made the Democratic Party respectable again, in the post-Reagan era. They did this by triangulating; giving a salute to conservative ideology, while maintaining the skeletal structure of New Deal politics (thus ensuring that they were still, for all practical purposes, “Democrats”).
It took a fascist dictator, with designs on world military dominance, domestic population control in the hands of corporations, and the shredding of the U.S. Constitution, to give rank-and-file Democrats a real opportunity to make their party a representative populist party again… dare I say, “liberal”?
Because when you’re faced with a dictator, fronting for a military-industrial oligarchy, you can’t do what the Clintons did in ‘92, and incorporate “the best parts” of the fascist takeover in your own agenda; there are no “best parts” of the Bush II presidency, quite obviously.
So it stands to reason that ANY nod to these people… including endorsement of Zell Miller Junior, in Connecticut… has to be be seen as something Democrats must staunchly resist. With 60+% of the American people finally getting hip to the horrors of W, a STRONG ALTERNATIVE to the “safe” politicking of establishment Dems has never had a better moment to explode.
Whatever. Disagree on the details (and the blue dresses) if you must. But in the end, just don’t be afraid of nuthin’… okay?
Clinton was an average president at best. This is not my personal opinion but the consensus of the best historians in the country. He just looks good to you Clinton nostalgiacs in retrospect compared to what we have now. The only thing I credit him with is the budget surplus. The Clintons have caused, and continue to cause, major damage to the Democrat party while only promoting themselves at the expense of the party.
punaise at 9:39
lmao
Sad, yet not the least surprising Big Dog Bill is whoring for HoJoe…desperate times for desperate has beens, and all that saxophone jazz.
Memo to Senator Boxer: Big Dog’s shadow will not provide the cover you might be imagining if your plan is to join his pathetic whoring for ole Joe on the ground in Conneticut.
Oh silly me – she couldn’t even if she wanted to – her duty to her office is 24/7 with Bush/Cheney’s uncontained war igniting the mideast.
Not to mention her long awaited and embarrassingly overdue intervention here in state with Fabian Nunez, hapless Speaker of our California Assembly and stop his arrogant and transparent whoring for ATT & Pebble Beach Company every spring over the last decade.
Ho-Joe lost his old trusty base and apparently didn’t even see it coming. It was once inconceivable we would ever imagine Senator Boxer making the same mistake of ignoring dire warnings from loyal staff and constituents.
Steve,
Hope you will come back soon. I feel like you were saying something valuable, maybe with a little too much volume, but honestly we do have a number of hotheads on fdl [glancing into the mirror].
If you comment on the main post, and then go on to say how that ties into the issue that you feel is more important, without criticizing people who are posting, that will win friends and influence people.
Thanks for sharing with us and hope to hear from you again.
Boadicea 180
Amen
Barry 183
It’s e x a c t l y what Karl Rove would do.
Not that he has any influence on the Lieberman campaign.
Shorter Steve Clark:
Goodbye, Cruel Firedoglake!
Okay, for myself I was kidding about a chorus of dancing Monicas, but how ’bout fliers with all of JoMo’ Republican endorsements (Coulter, O’Reilly, Hannity, Mitch McConnell) paired up with the most vile things these people said about Clinton.
I know it’s too late, anyway. Ah me and my staircase brilliance…
And redress will be had.
what next: a green dress?
Perhaps the new math would suggest that if a candidate who wants it both ways appears in public with a politician who always wanted it both ways, and is married to a woman who needs to have it both ways, maybe they cancel each other out completely, and what you’re left with is the only candidate – Ned Lamont – who wants it the Democratic way.
To me, Ned’s clear and simple message of strong Democratic principles just obliterates all the triangulating and posturing and positioning that is going on on the other side, and I think that is going to be what triumphs in the end.
Steve C, what egregious 186 said.
Anne Holliday: Was Boxer a no-show in CT?
Crashing the gate/coalition building, can we please not chase away people who are clearly on our side?
Anne, as has been said here before, I’m so glad you’re on this side instead of the other one.
boadicea at 9:45
Now, that was funny. Thank you.
Forgiving your enemies is great. But there is no excuse for kicking your friends and supporters in the teeth.
The voters gave Clinton everything he’s got. They supported him through impeachment and elected him twice.
Clinton either has no understanding that the grass roots is fed up with Lieberman (unlikely) or has taken the calculated risk that he can take the heat here to help his wife’s presidential bid (more likely).
If Joe goes down, Hilliary is less viable for a number of reasons.
Call Bill Clinton’s office (he has a comments line) and let him know how betrayed you feel about this. He is dissing the voters and democracy in favor of machine politics and politicians.
212-348-8882
punaise @ 191 –
Ah, dear, you pop my self-importance and make me laugh. I’m so glad you are in the world and commenting here!
LindaR @ 171
Anarchy happens when the law doesn’t serve the people. It’s one thing to cry fascism (as I do on occaision), but fascism only holds until it doesn’t; it isn’t self-sustaining. Democracy is the only self-sustaining mechanism for political organization.
People have latched on to the 1930’s Germany similarity, but honestly as things continue down the “radical Bush regime” road, it’s looking more and more like 1780’s France to me. Revolution is what happens when there is no way for peaceful change to proceed. And it’s fairly obvious to everyone not drinking the Bush koolaid that change is necessary.
I don’t think it has to play out that way, but if the Dems don’t turn the Ship of State around soon, it’s gonna get pretty ugly.
And to tie this into the thread hehe…the Clenis stumping for Republican Joe doesn’t help turn the ship around…
steve clark,
Your ok dude.
At least Jane or Christy didn’t come down on ya.
Awright, there’s prolly an EPU coming on, but I haven’t done my usual transatlantic paper-retrieving yet today, and once again those homepages over yonder sho’ do have it goin’ on:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/global
http://www.guardian.co.uk
http://www.independent.co.uk
http://www.telegraph.co.uk
Susan at 169, I’m in complete agreement with you and I see this firing up the guns at Clinton now as a bit overheated.
As I am a nutmegger, I can only imagine a tad better how CT voters would view it. It would be unbecoming.
And Clinton’s spokesperson said the HE WILL support the primary winner. Why would anyone want to throw that baby out with the bathwater?
I’m also in agreement with another previous poster who said to lay low with the Kiss float in the background if the turnout is small, but start popping out the buttons and such if the turnout is big.
I dunno, but this attack mode on all Dems who aren’t backing our way of thinking seems a little parricidal, for lack of a better word.
lotus @ 158:
Adie didn’t seem insulted (in fact, she seems quite amusing!). Of course, I could be wrong. Although, quite honestly, I never am [g].
Look, to say you know your peeps, and then describe them as what Adie described them as, forces me to call the description as I see it. I thought the visual of “tight-assed lobster fisherman” pretty much got my point across. NONE of the contemporary New Englanders I have know for the past 30-odd years are anything like that, and it is a stereotype, thank you.
And I’m not the guy who offered it, initially.
(One more thing: “… wont get you far around here”… is this a damned blog, or the PTA Women’s Auxiliary? I’m not here to gain acceptance in a club, and if that’s what Jane and Christy want this to be, I’ll be happy to go bye-bye. I just want to inject some political realism into the venues where I feel it will help best. So, I await Jane or Christy’s judgement on this, and will abide by it. Okay? Thanks for your Concern!)
LindaR 199 – no editorial comment intended – you were just an innocent bystander, victim of a verbal drive-by .. :~)
We get to decide who’s on our side based on their actions, not their words. Partisan electoral success is their reward AND the measure of their success: that’s the message I got from CtG.
The Democratic Party finds itself where it is BECAUSE of, not in spite of, the success of Bill Clinton. Clinton’s single minded focus on his electoral success left OUR party in tatters. This is the man who gave us Terry McAuliffe. Are there more representative examples of the now-discredited Old Third Way than the Clinton(s) and RGJoe?
Please go to Connecticut, 42, and try to tell Democrats how to vote in their primary. Then, use your friendship and newly earned credibility with Joe to urge the primary loser to support the will of the Connecticut Democratic primary voters on 8/9/06.
Oh, Barry C, your rhetoric makes me tired.
at 8pm, it’s 92ºF in Beirut — but its 9pm in Baghdad and it’s still up to 109ºF – sweltering but it’s dry heat!
lotus @ 206: Well… have a good schluffie, then! :-)
Geez, lighten up!
Susan W- I think for a lot of people, Clinton’s goint to campaign for JoMo is just the icing on the cake for the last five years of triangulation and softsoaping the Bushes, on the War but also on a lot of other stuff. I voted and contributed to Clinton twice, I wrote letters and made phone calls and wrote checks to support Clinton during impeachment, and a lot of people here did a lot more. So I, for one, take this very personally; maybe I shouldn’t, but I do.
And, take away Al Gore’s mistakes as a candidate, the media’s anti-Gore bias, and Bush’s masquerading as a moderate, even with all those things, if Bill Clinton had kept his goddamn fly zipped, we wouldn’t be where we are today. And now he’s stumping for one of George Bush’s most vocal supporters. I’m pissed.
All I can say is —
Al Capone was a two bit punk compared with the BushCo Gangsters;
And Joe Lieberman makes a piss poor Frank Nitti . . .
I would hope that FDL readers and posters would not feel the need to run away from a rowdy blog debate, just because everyone doesn’t agree with them.
This isn’t Malkinwald, disagreement is perfectly fine, just try to be civil :)
Sorry I’m so dense, but what does “EPU’d” mean?
The Kiss Float may not be going up if there is rain.
Egregious and lotus, with all due respect,if you’re referring to my comment I’m not trying to chase anyone away.
But interrupting an established conversation and insisting it should turn to my pet subject and then declaring my departure dramatically when the flow didn’t turn my way is something I was taught was kinda rude.
I’m a cranky Iceni for other reasons altogether this morning, so I’ll simply leave it at that, and saying that I hope Steve enjoys many long and happy years here with the other Firepups.
thanks for the link over at huffpo, jane!
lotus, only if you find it helpful, I for one hope you keep us updated on your old friend’s situation.
Sharon W 202 It reminds me of Mo Udall’s aphorism about Democrats forming a firing squad in a circle.
jim 209. Fine. I was pissed at him too, for that zipper thing. But is the objective to punish him for past acts, or to win a Democratic Senate seat with a real Democrat?
Democrats have a right to support whoever they want to in a primary. I support Lamont. But if Lieberman is the nominee, I will support him, and I hope that Clinton will be out campaigning for Lamont if he wins.
new Taylor Marsh thread: Bill Clinton
phoebes @212:
http://www.urbandictionary.com…..PU’d
:-)
gang — we do rowdy here well but civility is important also — be nice to each other, please, and dont feed the trolls …mmmkay?
Welcome phoebes! You’re not dense, simply uninformed.
Evil Parallel Universe, a long-time FDL commenter with a habit of commenting at the end of a long thread, just as the rest of us moved up to comment on a new post. EPU is the name of the commenter, and also the name of the phenomenon, which occurs to us all sometime: getting “left behind” on an old thread when all our peeps moved up to the new thread.
When this happens and one’s post is particularly note-worthy, relevant to the new post, and “not to be missed,” the left-behind commenter will re-comment it on the new thread with the designation “EPU’d.”
EPU will also, I think, want me to tell you that he’s omniscient and all-powerful, being a universe and all. We as FDL are not unanimous on this point, however.
(*g*)
PS it is important to capitalize EPU.
Yeah, that’s me: politically timid.
I enjoy that one. That’s a new one.
No, boadicea, I got no argument wid da Queen of the Iceni this morning at all. This isn’t a JKerry spraddle, but I was among the first to jump Steve C’s case, then had another think about egregious’ (and others’) stance and saw merit there too.
Like you and Kurt, I think passion and snark are wonderful, but I really hate to see rudeness here (including, when it happens, my own).
…go figure – my explanation of EPU’s got EPU’d.
:-(
Barry Champlain 208
Who you tellin’ to lighten up?
Hi Pach!
Look everyone, I got EPU’d explaining EPU!
Sue 213
Thompson’s Waterseal or similar product should be applied to this icon forthwith.
Innit wunnerful, Teddy?
Mean bunch ain’t we?
I’ve been lurkin on and off this morning due to work.
I will have to sa,IMO, That this place is pretty damn docile compared to some.
Rude and insulting generally will get the response you have asked for.
Pay attention to the comments before you go in with guns blazing.
These threads morph constantly. Someone will say something that interests the rest and off on a tangent we go.Nothing wrong with that. A news story breaks, same result.
I speak from experience. Take my word for it. I have been(what’s a nice word for it? reprimanded?) here before.just be mindful that these are people with feelings that can be hurt,just like anyone else.
End Screed.
Back to your regularly scheduled snark.
Susan In Iowa @ 168:
Communicating ‘how much one cares’ from someone who has limited (if any) power to act decisively on that caring, in light of PR meltdowns such as the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina means little in a world littered with numbingly commonplace horrors.
Clinton may have myriad reasons to do this…Personal desire to see Lieberman beg favor from a position of vulnerability, a minor obligation previously booked when Lieberman was an overwhelming favorite and Lamont was just another obscure millionaire from Connecticut, and so on…But it remains a token gesture of assistance while the wind is sniffed.
Barry C
Trust me. No fear here, blue noses neither, that I’ve seen. (yes, I have a mirror, wretched useless thing)
Try this on for size. If you go with the float, message is simple, tragi-comic & clear.
SCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE!
You get too gussied up in petticoats ‘n stuff, it affects yer aim; the ball’s more likely just to bounce offn’ th’ goal post.
‘doh
Now THAT’s over the top. Pro-active apologies.
Steve Clark – I hope you won’t let this incident keep you away. What people tend to forget is how they felt in the days when they were only lurking, or occasionally commenting. You’re reading all the posts and comments, and feeling a part of it, even though those who are commenting have no idea you are there. It’s pretty shocking to jump in on something, thinking you have something of value to add to the discussion and getting an immediate smack-down. For some reason, there seems to be a built-in suspicion of those who do not comment on a very regular basis, making an assumption that an unfamiliar name equates to being a troll – which isn’t always the case. What some do to avoid that is preface their remarks with something like, “long-time lurker/occasional commenter – really love this place and wanted to throw in my two cents on a related topic…”
Hope you’ll stick around and be part of the discussion.
As I said on the previous post, given the vast quantities of off-topic subjects that get contributed to the comments of established posts, it seems a little silly to be suggesting that you committed some kind of grievous error by bringing up a voting issue on a post about an impending election.
Barry Champlain 9:55 am
FWIW and JMHO, but “PTA Women’s Auxiliary?” probably implied certain things that you didn’t necessarily intend.
I think “PTA” would have made your point just fine.
Susan W- I think for a lot of people, Clinton’s goint to campaign for JoMo is just the icing on the cake for the last five years of triangulation and softsoaping the Bushes, on the War but also on a lot of other stuff.
Um, are you talking to me?
I’ll throw my two cents in either way. There have been issues on which I’ve disagreed with Bill, this would be one. However, I’m not going to go batshit rabid on his ass over it.
Please be pissed if you want, but there’s going to be a point at which we appearing to be devouring more of our own than we can afford.
I loved Bill Clinton as president. L-O-V-E-D. I broke into tears the day it was announced that he had, in fact, been diddling Monica because I knew it would taint every good thing he had accomplished.
But I will not tear him a new one. I will see how this plays out. And I’m in full agreement with whoever it was that said the “blue dress” thing would be a horrific fiasco doomed to backfire in our faces. NOBODY wants to go down that road again, and I would think especially not Dems.
Heya, Teddy.
Steve Clark – Every voice counts.
Except for the ones in Bush’s head
;>)
Thanks for the explanation about EPU’ing.
Teddy 222
EPU is a guy??????
I had no idea. Really!
Darkblack 230
I don’t disagree with you, or with a lot of what has been said about our illustrious ex-Prez. I do, however, give him credit where I think it is due. I think he has genuine compassion for people, which he has demonstrated through his AIDS initiative and a lot of other ways.
And he is an asset, a big one, for Democratic campaigning in the fall. I welcome his participation not just in the Lamont campaign, but for Tester, Webb, and anywhere he can make a difference. I don’t care what his motives are as long as he shows up to help take back the Senate and/or the House.
Lotus.
You’re just plain nifty keen.
We gotta work on Barry.
We use-ta say a certain cranky schoolboard member fella who could never lighten up had PMS.
‘
‘
‘
‘
‘
‘
pre-meeting-syndrome
never did tell him
guess this is confession time. ;->
SharonW says:
July 20th, 2006 at 10:13 am
Susan W- I think for a lot of people,…
Um, are you talking to me?”
Yup, sorry.
“I loved Bill Clinton as president. L-O-V-E-D. I broke into tears the day it was announced that he had, in fact, been diddling Monica because I knew it would taint every good thing he had accomplished.”
Personally, I think his support for Bush’s war has tarnished his reputation more than anything he did with the Clenis. And I don’t consider Joe Lieberman “one of my own”. The war in Iraq is a make or break issue with me. Sorry.
Maybe Bill Clinton is showing respect for the incumbent by campaigning for Lieberman so that when Lieberman goes down in defeat, he (Clinton) can then campaign for Lamont.
Clinton does what he feels he is obligated to do in supporting the incumbent by campaigning for Lieberman (my speculation).
*ilson #124 – that is brilliant!
LindaR at 172, very good points.
Anne 233
Really appreciate your wonderful comments.
Sure hope Steve comes back.
I used to feel the same things Steve expressed today (and look at me now; you’ve unleashed a monster, eek)
Apologies to all for my part in today’s flame-out.
But it felt good to let off some steam *g*
Shall be chuckling a long long time over Barry cautioning Pach not to be timid!
NOW I know what *spew alert* means.
Thanks for “letting” me use yer shoulder Pach.
Ava has a new video in the Lamont corner:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..ead-wrong/
Dollar for dollar match…GO NED GO!!!
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..s-donated/
This is all about the “Democratic Leadership Council”
The DLC is all about making the Democrats more conservative, both Clinton and Gore were founders, and Lieberman was chairman for 6 years.
I think the whole point of this club was to make the Democratic party into the waffling gutless wonders that they are, because if you look at the Wikipedia entry on the DLC:
“Still other critics believe the DLC has essentially become an influential corporate and right-wing implant in the Democratic party. Among the DLC’s leadership are individuals with impressive right-wing credentials, such as Marshall Wittmann, a senior fellow at the DLC and the former legislative director for the Christian Coalition, and Will Marshall, a cosigner of a letter issued by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) endorsing not only the Iraq War, but also an overall foreign policy similar to neoconservatism. Finally, detractors of the DLC note that the DLC receives funding from the right-wing Bradley Foundation as well as from oil companies, military contractors, and various Fortune 500 companies.”
Wikipedia
Howard Dean once described the DLC as being the “Republican wing of the Democratic Party” and the DLC has steadily refused to criticize the Iraq war. If you want proof, just note that Hillary Clinton won’t condemn the Iraq war either — **Just like Joe Lieberman**.
So there’s really no reason to wonder why Clinton will be there to support his DLC buddy — he’s just trying to keep the influence of the DLC strong. When you see that the aims and funding of the DLC is so similar to that of the Republican party, and that the Democratic Party leadership is composed mostly of members of the DLC (including John Kerry and John Edwards), you can see why the Democrats have been so spectacularly unable to do anything about the Republicans.
Bill Clinton devotes the better part of Chapter 17 of his Biography to the campaign where Bill and Joe first met — it was Joe Duffey’s Anti-War Campaign in 1970 against Thomas Dodd and Lowell Weicker — with Dodd then being under indictment. Bill, with Hillary’s help (they were not married then — just Law School Students) worked his heart out on Duffey’s campaign, but it broke his heart and along with his experience working for McGovern, it convinced BC that single issue protest candidacies flounder. For both Clinton’s it was a critical moment in their political education. (Bill made Duffey the head of Voice of America for 8 years when he eventually had the power to appoint beginning in 1993.)
Given what Bill has written in his book — I suspect he is fairly locked into his position with regard to insurgent candidacies. Afterall, the Duffey-Dodd contention did lead to the election of Republican Weicker — though just a few years Later, I suspect Nixon would well have wished the anti-War Duffey had prevailed. Clinton is doing what he is doing because he has cautionary words that are part of his sense of political caution — and I suspect he reads 2006 as being similar to 1970. But there are major differences.
Forget the political theatre. Ned has momentum now, and he has to keep it going and headed in the “UP” direction for a few more weeks. The two critical things now are ID’ing the voters so as to allow for a great, targeted and accurate GOTV, and finding those nooks and cranies in CT where normally non-primary voters feel really motivated to turn out for NED. You need nine or ten more points to turn “being marginally ahead” into a whopping landslide victory. Forget the negative stuff (Joe will take care of that I suspect) — keep it fun and very positive. People need to believe voting for Ned is like taking a great bath after dirty hard physical labor.
“Big Dog may not have taken it personally when Lieberman stabbed us all in the back with his speech on the floor of the Senate during the impeachment hearings, but many of us did.”
Tessio: Tell Mike it was only business. I always liked him.
Tom: He understands that.
Bill who?
Bill Clinton IS supporting Lamont here.
how?
By making sure that social conservatives, who like Joe, can’t cross the lines to support Joe EITHER, because now Clinton is there.
That’s my take on it, it is a very very good thing.
What an absurd comment! No, no, you’re right…How outrageous for Lieberman to say that it is wrong for a President who brags of being a loving and loyal partner to his “co-President” wife to be jacking off with an intern in the Oval office, and then manipulating his staff to lie about it! It wasn’t wrong, it was RIGHT, is that it? That’s classy, leadership, role model behavior for everyone to emulate, and how DARE a U.S. Senator imply otherwise!
Ridiculous. Why should anyone pay attention to people who are so ethically clueless?