guest post by Taylor Marsh
Talk about turning the other cheek. Wow, I’m impressed.
Former President Bill Clinton is going to campaign for the man who stabbed him and every other Democrat in the back during the Lewinski imbroglio. That Joe Lieberman aided the impeachment coup should never be forgotten. But that’s what grown ups do, let the past be buried where it belongs. Bill’s a better man than most, but many of us always knew that, now didn’t we? In fact, in the era of George W. Bush, President Bill Clinton has never looked so good.
But let’s not confuse what’s going on with the bottom line.
Former President Bill Clinton, a beloved figure among liberals, will campaign for Lieberman next Monday. The two men have known each other since 1970 when Clinton worked on Lieberman’s campaign for the state Senate. Clinton’s wife — Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) — has said she will back Lieberman in the primary but, should he lose that race, will support the Democratic nominee.
Jay Carson, a spokesman for President Clinton, said that the former president and his wife share the same position. "President Clinton is looking forward to campaigning with Senator Lieberman on Monday and will work hard to help ensure he wins the primary, but he respects the primary process and will support the candidate that wins the Democratic primary."
Bubba’s going to campaign for Joe, as well as a few other candidates, like Rep. Harold Ford who is running for Senate, but in the end Bill Clinton will back the people’s choice. That’s more than you can say for Joe.
Simply stated, Joe is all about, well, Joe.
We saw that in the late ’90s. Joe’s sanctimonious sermon in the Senate was enough to gag even the most moral among us.
… But the truth is, after much reflection, my feelings of disappointment and anger have not dissipated. Except now these feelings have gone beyond my personal dismay to a larger, graver sense of loss for our country, a reckoning of the damage that the President’s conduct has done to the proud legacy of his presidency, and ultimately an accounting of the impact of his actions on our democracy and its moral foundations.
The implications for our country are so serious that I feel a responsibility to my constituents in Connecticut, as well as to my conscience, to voice my concerns forthrightly and publicly, and I can think of no more appropriate place to do so than the floor of this great body. I have chosen to speak particularly at this time, before the Independent Counsel files his report, because while we do not know enough to answer the question of whether there are legal consequences from the President’s conduct, we do know enough to answer a separate and distinct set of questions about the moral consequences for our country.
I have come to this floor many times in the past to speak with my colleagues about my concerns, which are widely-held in this chamber and throughout the nation, that our society’s standards are sinking, that our common moral code is deteriorating, and that our public life is coarsening. In doing so, I have specifically criticized leaders of the entertainment industry for the way they have used the enormous influence they wield to weaken our common values. And now because the President commands at least as much attention and exerts at least as much influence on our collective consciousness as any Hollywood celebrity or television show, it is hard to ignore the impact of the misconduct the President has admitted to on our children, our culture and our national character. …
When the Democratic Party needed him in the 1990s, during the Republican witch hunt against President Bill Clinton, what did Joe do? He sold us all out. God bless Bill Clinton for being able to forget, but some of us never will.
Joe Lieberman is desperate.
Former Bill Clinton is being magnanimous. That’s what you expect of a true statesman, no matter how much it disappoints us.
But come August, after the primary, one thing is certain. President Bill Clinton will be backing the people’s choice. As for Joe, he’s already said he won’t.
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NedNedNed!
Very good post, Taylor. I’m glad that Bill will do the right thing and support the Democrat after August 8. Sure would be nice if he came to Connecticut and campained for Ned, huh?
Bill is on a choke collar so you all can be assured that Hillary is behind this, but it won’t work. Too far gone and the big mo is going Ned’s way. Watch out pro-war Dems the train is moving…
http://www.WhoIsJoeLieberman.com
rootz !
and a FITZ!
Jane – I fully expect to see former President Bill Clinton standing beside Ned Lamont in the fall. Visualize that, baby. Can you all say cha-ching?!
Shakes!
;>)
That’s the nice way to look at. Unfortunately it’s always been better to be Clinton’s enemy than his friend. He’s always tried to make vicious enemies like him – Dole, Hatch, the Bushes etc.
Don’t forget too his miserable record as leader of the Democratic party. In 1992 the Dems controlled just about everything: House, Senate, White House, and most governorships. 2000 – all gone. GOP in total control. And with that control they wiped out all Clinton’s achievements.
And at some point, being nice becomes being an enabler. Bill Clinton became an enabler a long time ago. It’s time for the Dems to move on.
I am hopeful that Bill is showing up to tell HoJo – “look – we are doing all we can to support you now, but don’t be a jackass if you lose.”
Bill Clinton is not now, nor has he ever been a Liberal. He’s a tough professional politician whose fealty is to the power structure — and nothing else.
That Clinton was turned into a Liberal by the right, the better to demonize liberalism and remove it from any “mainstream” sphere is one of the most grotesque spectacles of ourtime. At the time I admired him for standing up to it. Now I’m not so sure. His cozy relationship with Bush I is clearly indicative of where he’s heading in the Future : Elder Statesman.
That Hillary presumably disagrees with him about Holy Joe’s campagn — by saying she’ll support the Demoratic nominee –is indicative of Clintonian triangulation.
And nothing else.
There will be no change until this government is reconfigured from top to bottom. A new Constitutional Convention is in order.
Failing that –
“Four years after the revolution
and the old king’s execution
Four years after I remember how
those courtiers took their final bow
String up every aristocrat
Out with the priests Let them live on their fat
Four years after we started fighting
Marat keeps on with his writing
Four years after the Bastille fell
He still recalls the old battle yell
Down with all of the ruling class
Throw all the generals out on their arse
Good old Marat by your side we’ll stand or fall
You’re the only one that we can trust at all
Four years he fought and he fought unafraid
Sniffing down traitors by traitors betrayed
Marat in the courtroom Marat underground
Sometimes the otter and sometimes the hound
Fight ing all the gentry and fighting every priest
Businessman the bourgeois the military beast
Marat always ready to stifle every scheme
of the sons of the arse licking dying regime
We’ve got new generals our leaders are new
They sit and they argue and all that they do
Is sell their own colleagues and ride upon their backs
And jail them and break them and give them all the axe
Screaming in language that no one understands
Of the rights that we grabbed with our own bleeding hands
When we wiped out the bosses and stormed through the wall
Of the prison they told us would outlast us all
Marat we’re poor And the poor stay poor
Marat don’t make Us wait anymore
We want our rights and we don’t care how
We want our revolution
NOW!”
I can’t help but suspect that it might give Bubba just a little bit of pleasure to do this — see, the timing is key. He KNOWS Joe is going to loose this (whereas, the Senate failed to convict him, in spite of Joe’s efforts), so I can’t help but think that his “support” is just a clever little way of rubbing Joe’s face in it, esp considering that he will end up backing Lamont, the nominee. Furthermore, he and Hil stay in good with Schumer et al….
Clinton is not playing “nice” with Joe. I will bet a dozen donuts to one that he is already whispering in Joe’s ear that Mr & Mrs Clinton’s support in the primary means that Joe had better respect the choice of Conneticut voters in that primary.
The Great American Fellatio Crisis of the Late Twentieth Century was neither the first nor the last example of enabler Rape Gurney Joe providing “bipartisan” cover to the GOP.
That Bill could now campaign for Joe illustrates Bill’s ability to subordinate himself to his wife’s wishes and ambitions.
“Yay Bill. Yay Hill.”
Ya both better get to Connecticut this fall to campaign for the Democratic nominee, that’s all I can say!
Great Headline. Glad to see the Post has still got it. Assuming, as I do, that we’re going to win the primary, think Clinton might get just a little satisfaction in campaigning against Holy Joe?
Nedrenaline!
I’m fully with you Taylor and I believe Bill is doing nothing more than fulfilling obligations right now.
I hate to say this, but the thought of Dems turning on Bill now just really upsets me.
David, I’m not sure I see the daylight between Bill and Hill’s positions on the Connecticut race, given Taylor’s quote from Jay Carson.
timewarp beat me to it. how apropos.
Lieberman will lose the primary no matter what. It does not matter that Clinton will campaign for him. Now tt’s too late. The game is essentially over. Even if the Pope decides to go to Connecticut and campaign for Lieberman at this point, he will still lose.
The Democrats lost ground in the 90s, but most Presidents leave their party worse off in Congress than when they were elected. Reagan and Kennedy are the only exceptions since Roosevelt.
What Clinton did that needed to be done after the failures of Carter and Johnson, was to show the country that a Democrat could be trusted in managing the economy and foreign policy. And now Bush’s spectacular failure shows that ONLY a Democrat can be trusted to manage our foreign policy.
timewarp and benjoya, I hope you’re both right, but Ned has to win the primary. We absolutely cannot assume that.
Kobe’s minion Markos speaks http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..124328/816
Li’l armchair shrinkin’ here. Bill’s formative years with an alcoholic stepfather still show up every day in every way: the needy ego, the triangulation, the being everything to everybody, the sneakiness, the using, even the charm. He is gifted at politics, but his demons are still in charge of him, and they’re about to bring him to grief again.
But I sure am glad they’re finally out of our way.
Taylor– He is a statesman, I just wish he would not show up for Joe except to give him a drubbing along with Ned. Mebbe standing beside him will give folks pause though; compare and contrast– a guy who cheated on his wife and made amends and a guy who cheated on his own President and party– repeatedly and to this day without remorse.
OT– just watching US Marines evacuate folks from Lebanon. What is gonna happen if a stray Israeli missile hits our troops and/or our people? What’s gonna happen then? Is it friendly fire or Hizbollah’s fault or collateral damage or an unfortunate accident?
More tin foil thoughts: Perhaps having Bill campaign for Joe will scare off the GOP “Clinton-hating” support????
Joe Lieberman has done nothing to earn the support of the national Dem party and they should let him get his own sorry ass re-elected.
It does take a magnanimous person to forgive another a harm done, but Holy Joe’s Monica Morality Schpiel harmed the whole country because it lent legitimacy to the whole witch hunt-impeachment of Bill Clinton.
The whole thing is making me disgusted. Dems just can’t seem to develope a consensus opposition to this administration. As soon as one begins to form, someone breaks ranks and does the “straddle”.
I’m signing the Greens petititon to place candidates on the ballot. I don’t like Lamont owning shares of Halliburton. That makes me uneasy, I’m sorry to say.
I should correct what I wrote. Reagan was not an exception–the Republicans were weaker on January 20, 1989, than on January 20, 1981, when they controlled the Senate. So only Kennedy left his party stronger, as a result of the election 2 weeks after the Cuban missile crisis.
It’s the normal pendulum swing in national politics. Kennedy is the exception because he was only in office for 34 months.
The only thing that could redeem Clinton now would be if he punked Jomofo and endorsed Lamont on July 24.
Now that would be a dish served cold…
I don’t really see Clinton’s visit hurting Lamont in the primary. What I do see is the possibility that if Lamont wins the primary, Clinton’s visit could hurt Lieberman among Repub. voters in the general. Repubs seem to feel the same way about Clinton that Dems feel about Bush–they can’t even stand the sight of him. Besides, Clinton’s comments so far make him appear to be pro-Iraq war. I don’t see that as a winning position for most CT voters.
And might I add, the thought of progressives turning on Bill now could be enough for some to loose faith in this netroots movement.
I don’t care to emulate the Repubs eating of their own such as Bush did to McCain. It’s repugnate.
I’ve got plenty of reasons to dislike Lieberman and feel that he is not representative of my Democratic values. In fact they are so numerous I’ll be voting for Lamont. However, I’ve got other reasons I like or dislike other Dems to one degree or another, but it doesn’t mean I’d turn on them.
I much rather focus my anger and energy on the real enemy, those goosestepping, war-mongering, planet destroying, financially ruinous Repubs.
“…What is gonna happen if a stray Israeli missile hits our troops and/or our people? What’s gonna happen then? Is it friendly fire or Hizbollah’s fault or collateral damage or an unfortunate accident?”
______________
They’ll just blow it off, like they blow off everything else. Rummie’ll shrug his shoulders and make some dismissive comment.
_
the LieberCampaign is so salivating at the effect a Nader-lite campaign in CT will have … I will guarantee you they are probably circulating Green petitions along with CT4Joe petitions !
Hate to rain on Bill’s love fest, but he is one Democrat I never trusted, and never voted for in the primaries.
Admittedly damn smart, but he was first and foremost out for himself and he is now. Keep that in mind.
This is all very well-crafted sleight of hand, because either way it turns out, he will be a winner. How sweet for him.
“Former President Bill Clinton, a beloved figure among liberals”
Kiss my ass!
Going up to see Lowell Weicker on Colin McEnroe’s show tomorrow.
Now THAT ought to be fun.
SharonW and Angie, too – Bill Clinton is the shrewdist politican since John F. Kennedy, also the most talented and intelligent. Many things have changed since the 1990s. For instance, Clinton may have been for getting rid of Saddam, but he would NEVER have planned preemption. But Clinton is also now a member of a very rarified group: the two term president’s club. No one, especially Democrats, should take that lightly. The smart ones won’t. That said, Bill Clinton’s stance on the Iraq war is just plain wrong, with his hedging about it now untenable. Frankly, that’s his problem, because this election isn’t about Bill Clinton.
Again, visualize this: Former President Bill Clinton standing beside Ned Lamont in August, with Joe Lieberman admitting defeat and supporting the winner. That picture makes me smile.
Taylor, good post.
I’m caught somewhere between timewarp and David Ehrenstein. Power looks out for nobody but itself, so what Joe seems to be cashing in are his status-quo chips. At some point the party breaks down and power takes over, this is what people mean when they want to protect incumbents (people who are already trained to play the game).
Failing that, Clinton could be protecting his own reputation by giving it the old college try but just late enough not to matter. Whether it has anything to do with history is anybody’s guess.
Power looking out for power again.
Bill Clinton campaigning for Lieberman is a disappointment, as is Barbara Boxer’s promise to do so.
Biden’s travel cancellation is just one more sign he’s a fair weather ally.
Incumbent protection is an entrenched characteristic of the political elite, so they’re not surprising me.
If any of them decide to support Lieberman as the standard bearer of the Vanity Plate Party, that’s another thing altogether, and will garner a justifiably furious response not just from the blogs but from the grassroots Dems all over.
Let the big dog know how you feel about this. He has a comments line at his office just for this purpose. He would probably like to know. Don’t harass him or anything, just let him know how his appearance for Lieberman impacts you and what it means to you.
Your tax dollars pay for that line anyway.
212-348-8882
Push 3 for the comments line.
Bill Clinton, Loyal to the End.
OK, my question is loyal to whom or is Lieberman now being called the End. I thought he was an ass.
You’re right, Taylor. Bill Clinton is being magnanimous in supporting a primary candidate who let him down in an egregious way. Sorry, Egregious.
But personal loyalty or whatever his motives are is only taking him to August 8th. When the primary is over, the Democratic nominee will have his support.
If we don’t have room in our party for the less-than-liberal Democrats, we are not going to retake the reins and hold them. Don’t give up what you believe in, but for heaven’s sake don’t shun people because they believe something different. Developing relationships across the aisle the way Clinton does is a reminder of an era before politics got so totally poisonous and a lot more got done. We could use more of that, not less, and I hope the fall sees the retirement of lots of the Atwater/Rove/DeLay-type proponents of “hate-your-opponents” political discourse.
This is something the NedHeads can use to our advantage.
When the Clintons do radio call-in shows, our first statement to them should be: “You know, the one hallmark of the Clintons has been a willingness to forgive people who have done them dirt. That’s why it’s not surprising to see you here helping Joe Lieberman, even though his giving a ‘bi-partisan’ cover to the GOP’s impeachment drive nearly led to your overthrow, and did lead to an immense waste of government time and taxpayer dollars.”
Or how about this, if you’re feeling direct: “Mr. and Senator Clinton, how can you campaign for a guy who backstabbed you and led to your near-financial and political ruin?”
Keep track of where they’re going to appear, and post call-in # here!
Everyone,
Don’t forget, Senator Lieberman’s mother loves President Clinton. I believe she probably asked President Clinton for help for Joe. President Clinton has no love for what Joe did. He’s moving on, he said Nelson Mandela told him to forgive everyone and move on. He said don’t let them control your life. I truly believe Senator Lieberman’s mother is involved somewhere or somehow in this. Remember, she had a problem with Joe speaking out about President Clinton’s private life. Lieberman’s finding out, that what goes around, comes around. He has to beg the man he condemned to come and help him out! God is truly amazing!
/bjl
I will be interested in what Bill has to say. It’s not likely to overcome my many objections to Holy Joe, but I will listen. He has earned that respect. Bill is good at parsing words. It could be an interesting tap dance. But it won’t change the outcome of the primary.
call me naive, but I don’t think Clinton’s support of HoJo will hurt Ned… and a bit of “wait and see” for when Ned wins the primary might be the smart thing…
I still think Clinton’s there to talk Joe out of an independent run and he’s explaining it to Joe in very diplomatic but very strong terms…
Bill Clinton is being magnanimous
what does nag man Imus have to say?
Lotus — are you there?
db at 10;39, thanks for the number, calling right now.
Bill is smart. Repugs might vote for a DINO in the primary–but NOT if he’s constantly flanked by the man they despised. Payback is a bitch–especially when the guy feeding you your balls on a plate is so damn nice!
Here, imm.
Taylor– I hate his stance on the war, but I hate Hillary’s far more. More because she voted for it and is in a position to actually craft legislation and I think she is too much the warmonger in general. I did not like some things he did in the foreign policy arena — think killing sanctions on Iraq, Rwanda…– but I yearn for those days in general.
He would have never vetoed stem cell research and in fact, we would already be well on our way to helping people… grrrrrrrrrr.
Actually, having Clinton come to stand with Joe will just remiond everyone what a putz and a scold Lieberman is. It will reinforce his negatives.
And, for anyone who has any dealings with Bill Clinton — NO event that he appears at is about anything but himself. I prdict he won’t say fifteen words of direct support for Joe — it will be general pro-Dem and anti-Bush policy talk. And a lot of handshaking. Of course, Joe will get the 5 O’clock news Monday — but it is a Monday.
If I were Ned, I would go to meet Bill while he was in town.
Taylor, I haven’t heard Bill’s latest stance on the war in Iraq, but you’re right, he’s NOT running for election. *VBG*
In any case, he’s fulfulling his duty as he sees fit right now and I do believe as you said that he IS magnanimous for it certainly seems that in this instance he is putting the party before his personal pride.
And I sure want some of that when Lamont wins the primary.
Can anyone tell me N. Gringrichs’ military backround, if any? I suspect he’s a fat chicken hawk. WW III indeed.
Good one, Ruthie, and apt. I’m with you, Angie.
Lotus,
Our entire network at work is down, I have no access to my email or my address book, waah waah wahh.
So, I have to send you this linky (for S)this way:
http://www.mobar.org/dcc66de3-…..ab196.aspx
I just called Clinton, left him a polite message telling him how disappointed I was with his decision to campaign for Lieberman.
I encourage everyone to call. In the aggregate, we will be noticed.
Here’s the number again:
212-348-8882
Push 3 for the comments line
It is a quick and easy call. Thanks.
I couldn’t agree with this more.
BTW, any reactions to GW’s speach? I just finished listing to it on MPR just now. Anyone else?
Newt G was a military brat but of course never enlisted himself …
“It’s astounding
Time is fleeting
Madness takes its toll…
Ahh… But listen closely…
Not for very much longer…
I’ve got to keep control.
I remember doing the Time Warp.
Drinking those moments when
The blackness would hit me.
And the void would be calling.
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
It’s just a jump to the left.
And then a step to the right.
With your hand on your hips.
You bring your knees in tight.
But it’s the pelvic thrust.
They really drive you insa-ya-yane
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
It’s so dreamy
Oh, fantasy free me
So you can’t see me
No not at all.
In another dimension
With voyeuristic intention.
Well secluded
I see all…
With a bit of a mind flip…
You’re into a time slip…
And nothing can ever be the same.
You’re spaced out on sensation.
Like you’re under sedation.
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
Well, I was walking down the street
Just having a think
When a snake of a guy
Gave me an evil wink.
Well it shook me up
It took me by surprise
He had a pick-up truck
And the devil’s eyes
He stared at me
And I felt a change
Time meant nothing
Never would again.
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
It’s just a jump to the left.
And then a step to the right.
With your hands on your hips.
You bring you knees in tight.
But it’s the pelvic thrust…
That really drives you insa-ya-ya-yane
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
Ah! Oh! Oh! Yeoooww… Ahhhh.
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
It’s just a jump to the left.
And then a step to the right.
With your hands on your hips.
You bring you knees in tight.
But it’s the pelvic thrust…
That really drives you insa-ya-ya-yane
Let’s do the Time Warp again!
Let’s do the Time Warp again!”
Anyone else notice that speech above by Joe would dovetail nicely wrt Bush’s record?
Bullseye immanentize at 10:52,that’s a hell of a link.
Oh, EXCELLENT, imm! I reached B awhile ago, and she’s going to call me back as soon as she’s finished with the client there now. So your timing couldn’t be better, my good man.
Newt is a chickenhawk, period.
Barbara at 43. Joe’s mom died like a year or two ago. I knew his mom’s best friend. It was pretty cool to hear the behind-the-scences campaign stories as Hazel would accompany Joe’s mom to various events.
That was the only part I liked about Joe running for VP, the fact that it might get me a connection to the Whitehouse. :D
I think this is really not at all about trumpeting Clinton’s “endorsement”. (As has been noted, this doesn’t play well with HoJo’s Republican base.)
Even if Clinton says nary a word, he’s a cash magnet. Given the state of HoJo’s ground operation, that’s what he needs most. Don’t dismiss Clinton’s effect.
Prof F – does HoJo really need more money? I thought he was already quite flush
and I’m not sure all the money in the world will help him now…
Thanks John C. Lotus, I hope it helps. Sometimes by turning issues over to these bar groups, they sorta take ownership and actually do a tremebndous amount to help. I hope that is true in the show-me state!
With regards to “Dancing Monicas” or any other blue-dress demonstration against Bill:
Bad idea. But even if it’s bad, it’s also unnecessary, because, whether we like it or not, that is going to be part of the media spin about Clinton’s appearance with Joe.
You don’t need a crystal ball to foresee what will happen. Jeff Greenfield (or whatever his name is) on CNN will air the Lamont/Liebermann event, and transpose that with a clip of Liebermann castigating Clinton on the floor of the Senate in 1998. And then he will note the irony of it.
So the subject will be raised, (whether we like it or not), but not by us.
Our best option is to just let the Devil have his day, and then strike back with some media event of our own later, to move the narrative on to something else.
Bill Clinton WILL help Liebermann in the polls. But it might not help him enough, and if it’s too soon before the election, it might not have any lasting effect at all. Again, our best option is to ignore it and make some counter-bid for attention.
And if the Lamont team is asked to comment about Clinton’s support for Liebermann, we merely comment that Clinton is being loyal to the party’s incumbent, and how said it is that Liebermann couldn’t have done the same back in 1998. And then we ask the question, if Liebermann loses and runs as an Independent, AS HE APPARENTLY IS PLANNING TO DO, is he so devoid of conscience that he will actually stab Clinton and the Democrats in the back like that?
That’s how to handle it.
as Hillary can tell you, there is NO such thing as having too much money in politics !
Is Al Gore going to stump for Ned? I think he should. Definately. Now. It would be good for both of them….
Talk about turning the other cheek.
Taylor, in light of the zesty Post cover, just which set of cheeks are you referring to?
OT,
Raw Story.
Breaking: Hezbollah kidnaps two foreign journalists…
http://rawstory.com/
well, I suppose if Joe can spend the money on a whine-ectomy, it would be money well-spent!
oh yeah, immanentize!
I see this as a terrible gamble by Lieberman. If he loses the primary, he’s hoping to siphon off votes from Republicans and independents. Name for me a family not named Kennedy that is hated more than the Clinton family in Republican households. Given this, what good does an endorsement from the Bambino do him?
I’m guessing liberals are STILL going to support Lamont after this, so I see this as a net LOSS for Lieberman, based on his sore loser situation.
I guess I have a few thoughts running through my mind at this point as a person from CT. First, I’m annoyed he’s coming here. It’s more of the same Hojo dog and pony show. Two, I am annoyed by Hillary, who’s probably encouraging this. And three, I wonder if Clinton has something in common with Lieberman and friends like Droney: they don’t trust CT primary voters, re: Jerry Brown. http://blogs.courant.com/colin…..ften_.html
imm and John C, I’ll keep y’all posted on the developments — which I dearly hope soon include getting S to an MD. As I said earlier, the more I think about this, the more I suspect an organic cause of her crisis.
As first mentioned by *ilson a few threads ago, Clinton’s visit was probably planned some time ago. It was no doubt uncontroversial at the time, albeit odd given their history. Still this was about Establishment politics and Establishment politicians. The ground has since shifted politically, however, and the visit is now both odd and controversial. Clinton’s, Hillary’s, and Lieberman’s views on the Iraq war are closer to each others than they are to the voters. And this brings up again the issue implicit in the title of the post. Most Americans and an even higher percentage of Democrats are against the war in Iraq. Why then are so many of their party leaders still for it? Where’s the loyalty there?
I called BigDog. Pressed 3 and asked him to ask Joe to join him and Hill in supporting the nominee of the Democratic primary, and respect the will of Democratic voters as expressed on August Eighth.
I probably can’t talk 42 out of going to Connecticut on 7/24, but I did ask him to let Joe know that support of the primary nominee is what Democrats everywhere expect of Democrats.
Does the lady whose voice is on Bill’s answering machine sound like Betty Currie to anybody other than me?
SharonW @ 30 I am with you, too.
TSF – Does the lady whose voice is on Bill’s answering machine sound like Betty Currie to anybody other than me?
it’s Rosemary Woods.
ilson 46201
your link at 4….is great, Thanks.
GO NED!!!
BTW to all…This is not the first time Bill has screwed us Republican style….NAFTA anyone?
Joementum is going down and their is nothing the Big Dog can do to help him. When Lieberman loses, the Traditional Media will not be able to say that it was because the current Democratic leadership turned their back on him. Not that Traditional Media will not try. However, WATB crap, Poor Joe was stabbed in the back bullshit, ain’t going to fly.
Once Lamont wins the liberal/progressive grass roots can turn around Bubba’s endorsement of Lieberman to their advantage, and truely claim they are the once in touch with America.
Rosemary Woods? does that mean the first 18 minutes of our comments will be erased?
mui 78, that Colin McEnroe — wow, his sense of things rivals our Anne’s for acuity, doesn’t it? Loved the comments there, too. Many thanks for that link.
On second though if Clinton thinks CT primary voters are having a Jerry Brown moment, he might want to lose his train schedule. The whole thing could be terribly embarrassing for him and Hilary, if once again the state doesn’t get “delivered” for him.
http://politicalwire.com/archi…..ahead.html
RE: Newt. He is definitely a chickenhawk. He is something of a military historian as well. Not that this gives him any creditials. I only mention this to note that he has co-written an interesting set of books based on the premise, what if the Confederacy won the Civil War? The first book starts out with the battle of Gettysburg, and pretty realistically lays out a fictional scenario where that turning point battle went the other way. And it really wouldn’t have taken that much. And he develops the story from there. It has all the real people from that battle, from Lee on down, and starts with the real historical situations about what they were doing and where they were on the days in question, and gradually diverts from the true “historical stream” due to certain events going a different way.
It’s pretty interesting reading for Civil War buffs. I did have to get past seeing his name on the book cover to actually enjoy the book, tho.
Back to the future. Hezbollah reportedly captures two journalists.
I am sure they are loading up the truck bombs just for old times sake as we read.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articl…..58,00.html
-GSD
Sorry BK, I didn’ read up far enough.
-GSD
Bottom line is that all incumbent politicos will back fellow incumbents, lest some upstart comes along and tries to unseat them, or their friends/family. It’s Political Survivor 101.
And looky here, *ilson, at the rest of Zengerle’s post (linked there):
#74 AND 91; wrt kidnapped journalists; cnn was just scrolling that the Hezbollians released 2 English journo’s and their Lebanese translator.
John Kerry talking live in senate about long voting lines, voter suppression, not enough voting machines in poorer districts.
Chris Bowers at MyDD has some CT thoughts http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/7/20/14720/6583
Question for Jane.
Is anybody looking past a Lamont victory?????
Because I believe a Lamont victory will stir up an hornets nest on K-Street. Big Corporations that for 2 decades counted on donations to DLCers like Lieberman, Bayh, Harmon, even Hilary are going to be crapping their pants. What if Corporate American can no longer relie the DLC ablity to throw the fight their way? What if a Democratic Congress wakes up and realizes that it can not ignore its base any longer?
Will Corporate America react by going into a panic and flood Republican candidates with insane levels of cash.
Can Greedy Republican politicians really be able to digest all the additional riches that they showered with.
Perhaps Bubba is justifiably concerned that GrassRoot Democrats are not quite ready to step up to the plate and face a massive Big Money Corporate backed counter attack. Regardless I hope that someday Bubba will be able to see for himself that the dye has been cast and jump in and whole heartedly support the Democratic base’s attempt to remake the party.
Dang, phone rang and distracted me. Anyhow, now that Zengerle’s got his answer, he can’t be happy with it, I’ll warrant.
OT-
Breaking News-(AP/BS)-An unnamed administration offical has confirmed that there was not only the possibility of an Iranian at the North Korean missle tests, but also representatives from Eastern Antartica, and the People’s Front of Judea. When reached for comment, the People’s Front of Judea crypticly responded, “bunch of bloody wankers. Bugger off!”
Thanks SharonW:
I did not know she was dead. I just remember how much she loved President Clinton. Joe Lieberman made a comment that she loved President Clinton more than she loved him and he was her son. I hope that everyone will just calm down that’s all! Thanks for listening everyone!
Again, SharonW thanks!
/bjl
Watertiger has one wrt Bill and Joe.
Scroll down.
http://derenegade.blogspot.com/
Lamont hasn’t won yet! Both HoJo and the Repubs are gunning for him and they have big guns with plenty of ammo. Lieberman may be going down, but until he’s down, assuming Ned’s gonna win is a huge mistake we can’t afford. Support, contribute, volunteer! Republicans never, ever give up and that’s the only thing we should take from their filthy, crooked, hateful playbook.
Shrill? Yeah, whatever.
Zergle @ 101
Reuter’s is reporting that it was actually the Judean People’s Front.
If there’s any reference to Hezbollah’s kidnapping journos on http://news.bbc.co.uk, I’m not seeing it — so let’s hold off on buying that report just yet.
We need Bill back. I am filled with nostalgia for days of impromptu McDonalds visits, the blue dress and standard English being the official language of the Oval Office. Monica, I miss you. Linda, I miss you too. A President with an IQ over 95: G-d I miss you. Clinton on a stupid day (rare) was smarter than the current occupant’s high water mark.
Can you imagine Clinton whining that he was the “decider”? Please.
David Ehrenstein at 60.
Awwwww Shucks!
OT– Hezbollah treats their prisoners with consideration acc. to Terry Waite(formerly held by the Hezbollians for 4 years while an envoy from the Anglican church)– but he cautions that the collective punishment and devastation of Lebanon may be too much to bear. He says the US is the only power that can cease this. The trust is broken now and there is a devastation to the relationships in addition to the physical devastation.
Wish he was in our guvmint. sigh.
on cnn.
I know the comment was in jest, but the poor woman’s dead. (RMN secretary.)
http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/?p=854
I would like to know how Peter Daou figures in all of this. Hillary would not let Bill campaign for anyone without her tacit permission, and Peter had to bless this moment I mean, how does someone from the heart of the blogosphere working for Hillary really view this.
Isn’t Clinton going to campaign/fundraise for some other Dems while there?
If so – I think that’s probably a good thing. Leiberman’s stance hasn’t been good for other Dem races, so if Clinton can juice them some – that’s a good thing.
To me (and I don’t really know the politicking to do much with poll results, etc.) the interesting thing is not so much that Lamont now seems to have a winning primary hand – its the amount of swing since the last polling. How long ago was Leiberman up by double digits? And since then, he’s pulled one endorsement/campaigning proffer after another out of the hat and in the interim he’s lost that double digit lead?
Interesting.
brainfaht — now, that IS an interesing observation! Bil & Hil get it good both ways. DNCC happy “now” and scaring off GOP support of Lieberman “then.” Because I CAN’T believe they will want a Leiberman not-a-democrat in the Senate in the fall. They know that if Leiberman looses the primary, Ned must win in the general. Also, some sort of strategy to protect Hil’s flank in the event that a Dem in NYC thinks of running a similar challenge in the NY primary next time, which raises the question, will she do a Leiberman and run for both President and Senate in ‘08?
Mary 111
And don’t forget HoJo has also had a televised debate, which he supposedly won.
Maybe it’s like Bush and Social Security, the more he campaigns the less people like him.
Mary;
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x11362.xml?ReleaseID=922
(the link to the June 8 poll)
“June 8, 2006 – Lamont Gains On Lieberman Among Connecticut Dems, Quinnipiac University Poll Finds; Rell Rules In Governor’s Race
Anti-war Connecticut U.S. Senate candidate Ned Lamont has gained ground on Sen. Joseph Lieberman, and now trails the incumbent 55 – 40 percent among likely Democratic primary voters, including undecided voters who are leaning towards a candidate, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.
Among all Democrats, Sen. Lieberman leads 57 – 32 percent, compared to 65 – 19 percent in a May 2 poll by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University.
All Connecticut voters approve 56 – 32 percent of the job Lieberman is doing. Democrats approve 49 – 38 percent, down from 60 – 31 percent May 2.”"…
Maybe former President Clinton will miss his train as Senator Biden did a couple of weeks ago when he was scheduled to appear with HoJo.
(I can dream, can’t I?)
By the by, anyone heard from rwcole about these numbers? {smallish bit of snark}
BlanK 109 – Rosemary Woods is an icon, a historical figure. There was no disrespect intended, nor, IMO, should any have been perceived.
david e. at 11…nice quote from marat/sade. i played the herald in a production of that about a hundred years ago.
A good idea to let Bill know how you feel, but I still think the best thing would be to make as little of it as possible; “ho-hum” is a lot more damaging to Lieberman than pitchforks and torches. The media is going to take more meaning out of “nothing” than they will about a big to-do. And if Clinton is stumping for other CT Dems, do we really want to make those candidates casualties of a fight that simply isn’t worth fighting? If he is stumping for other CT Dems, a show of support for those candidates will contrast sharply with low turnout for a Clinton-Lieberman event (unless Lieberman has a light-bulb moment and realizes that he has to have the other candidates appear with him, so as to force Dems to come out – even if they aren’t coming out for him, he will use the crowds to prove his popularity – not sure he’s got any light bulbs over 15 watts, though).
The more it looks like we care that Bill is stumping for Joe, the more it will seem like it really matters.
EXACTLY!
NedHeads can use this as an excuse to bring up Lieberman’s backstabbing the Clintons when it counted and putting the country through the FauxGate wringer.
What’s the one thing that the Lamont folks online have been trying to do? To get the media to change their media frame from “Lieberman’s opponents are against him solely because he backed invading Iraq” to “Lieberman’s opponents are against him because he has a long history of backstabbing, and one of his backstabs is directly responsible for the three-year Impeachment Crisis that got shoved down our throats”.
This is a golden opportunity to do just that.
Take that opportunity!
My favorite Rosemary Woods story was when someone (from Congress?) asked her to act out the position she must have been in to “accidentally” erase 18 minutes of tape (I think she would have had to be like this for something like six minutes.)
http://history.acusd.edu/gen/r…..emary.JPEG
And, by the way, couldn’t that tape be “unerased” with today’s technologies?
Me, too, Bruce, although I don’t miss the Monica/Watergate/Ken Star crapola one bit.
And you know, we should all be happy and celebratory today for Lamont’s INCREDIBLY huge bounce in the polls instead of whacking poor old bubba upside the head.
Dang, people, the nation is watching ‘lil old Connecticut and boy are they going to be startled and boy the pundits are gonna have a field day discussing this race now.
This is really a wowie wowers day! And might I add since the media has been spinning it this way anywhoo, score ONE for the blogosphere.
Good article, Taylor. Bill Clinton was a master politician – I think what liberals liked about him was that, even though he wasn’t all that liberal, he was about inclusiveness. He always tried to include everyone who wanted to in conversations, and seemed to be genuinely interested in what others had to say. That respect for others is a part of liberalism.
Needless to say, I’m disappointed that he’s campaigning for Lieberman, and I’m a bit surprised. Joe’s politics are enough like Pres. Clinton’s, though, that I suppose it fits. It certainly fits better than Barbara Boxer campaigning for him.
I’ll just caution that assuming that Lamont is going to win this election is premature, to say the least. That lead is really a statistical dead heat, and a lot can happen in two weeks, including a lot of bad. I’m sure the folks working on the campaign realize this, but never assume, I always say.
The more it looks like we care that Bill is stumping for Joe, the more it will seem like it really matters.
Only if we don’t constantly keep bringing up how Sweet and Generous Bill is to Forgive Joe for Stabbing The Clintons In The Back By Making the Three-Year-Long Impeachment Circus Possible.
The more we link Lieberman to his treatment of the Clintons in the 1990s, the better it is for us!
I held my nose when voting for Slick Willie in 1992 and 1996. I knew he was a used car salesman who couldn’t keep his dick in his pants, but that was still light years better than four more years of Bush I and whoever.
People rave about his political acumen, but what was one of the very first things he did when he got in to office? Push the gays in the military thing. I’m queer and I assure you that that issue is down the list of things most GLBT people care about (how about a federal anti-discrimination law? Hello?). It was pushed on him David Mixner, a gay fundraiser who was a FOB (Friend of Bill). So, he was already a target of the wingnuts and he does that shit? It crippled him right out of the gate. When he caved, I wrote him off.
Then he signed the Defense of Marriage Act and he was dead to me. After 12 years of Ronnie Raygun and Bush I, I would have voted for any Democrat who could show a pulse, but damn! Bubba was a case of “what potential, utterly squandered”. Go the fuck away and take your triangulating wife with you.
timewarp 112:
Hillary, if successful in her re-election bid to the USSenate from NY this year, will be up for re-election to a third term in 2012. So she could then run for President and USSenate simultaneously — state laws differ, not sure about NY’s — but not in 2008.
new tread
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..t-himself/
Actually, having Clinton come to stand with Joe will just remiond everyone what a putz and a scold Lieberman is. It will reinforce his negatives.
Especially if someone could find a way to broadcast a recording of Lieberman’s shiv in the back speech to the crowd waiting for Bill to appear. Perhaps a loudspeaker attached to the Kiss Float?…. ;) Jim
TeddySanfran — my bad. It is hard to remember that Hil is in an election year, since basically the GOP has conceeded the race already…
I still think that the insertion of Bill is strategic only — make sure a “real” Dem wins the election. Holy Joe as a sorta-Dem does the party no good if there is a possibility that they can re-take the Senate.
Y’know what? If I was running Ned Lamont’s campaign, I’d invite Bill Clinton to come meet Ned on Monday. Have a cup of coffee or a diet Coke together. And then if Clinton accepts (which I’d bet money he would) make sure that news of the meeting gets out.
Just curious…does CT have electronic voting machines? If so, BigDog’s appearance would provide ample media cover Joe’s “comeback” on election day.
Li’l armchair shrinkin’ here. Bill’s formative years with an alcoholic stepfather still show up every day in every way: the needy ego, the triangulation, the being everything to everybody, the sneakiness, the using, even the charm. He is gifted at politics, but his demons are still in charge of him, and they’re about to bring him to grief again.
But I sure am glad they’re finally out of our way.
-Lotus, what is your armchair analysis of George W. Bush?
can’t we do a roots thingy and get some of our points over to bill?
faxes and emails I think could bring about another engagement for the former pres.
we really need to remind him all the damage joe has done to the party, we need a list of things that appall us and we need to prove that joe is a drain on the party
Next to Good News and Singin’ in the Rain, Mara/Sade is my favorite musical.
A breakdwon on K srtreet is to be greatl desired. This can no longer be a government of the corporations, by the corporations and for the corporations. Ned means gettign a tiny, but scarcely insignificant piece of our own back — if only just for a nanosecond.
Just as Greater Blogistan has put the fear of God into the punditocracy (to an extent I never would have dreamed — they’re literally shitting in their panties 24/7) so it goes with the grassroots and the netroots.
Remember, a Lamont victory, if it comes (and I sure as hell hope it will), is something that the netroots can only take PARTIAL credit for. What matters here is the voters of Connecticut standing up and taking their state back. What matters are the votes from people who don’t have a website.
Two things, folks, to bear in mind about Bill Clinton’s planned visit next Monday (07/24) to stump for Holy Joe:
1) BOTH BILL AND HILLARY HAVE ALREADY PROMISED TO BACK WHOEVER WINS THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY IN CONNECTICUT. Period.
2) Whenever any opportunity arises to do so publicly — on a radio call-in show, at a meet/greet with the cameras running, etc. — make a point of saying something along these lines:
a) “Gee, it’s so good of President Clinton to be so forgiving of the guy who enabled the out-of-control Republican Congress to put the country through the three-year hell of a bogus impeachment crisis.”
OR:
b) (the direct approach) “How can you be so nice to the guy who put you and us through three years of hell on toast?!?”
If we make sure the Connecticut airwaves and newspapers are filled with reminders of how Lieberman screwed the Clintons, then suddenly Holy Joe won’t be so happy that Bill’s putting in an appearance.
To start things off, how ’bout writing a letter to the folks at the Hartford Courant complete with reminders of How Holy Joe Backstabbed The Clintons? Either click here, or use letters@courant.com. If everybody who complained about the Clinton visit did this — and in time to fill the Letters sections of the Sunday and Monday editions of the Courant — then that’ll go a LONG way towards using the Clinton visit as a judo move on Holy Joe.
Sorry, Post, but paintings are “hanged,” not “hung.”
And is it possible that Joe’s right-leaning fans would be turned off by Bill’s support?
Looks like a win-win to me.
TeddySF – 15
Bravo and kudos kid! Your GAFC will prove a 2006 classic in acronym history.
Makes me so miss Jeff Gannon – doesn’t he know his President would want him on the ground in Connecticut getting out the vote for HoJo?
After all, Big Dog may have to fly out any minute on a diplomatic mission with Poppy to beg the forgiveness of Germany and the rest of the world on behalf of all American patriots.
Given the current mood in California Barbara Boxer’s staff dare not let her go near HoJo sans Big Dog cover – at least without a struggle.
Earth to Boxer – why compound and/or surpass – your Joey faux pas barely one month ago at YKos Vegas? Here’s a thought: send in Di-Fi to honor your promise – surely she owes you that much.
Here is my letter to Bill Clinton.
To: William J. Clinton
55 West 125th St.
New York, NY 10027
Subj: Campaigning for Sen. Joe Lieberman
Dear Bill,
I understand that you intend to campaign for Joe Lieberman in his primary campaign for the Democratic nomination for Senator from Connecticut. As a long-time Democrat myself who feels that in the last eight years Sen. Lieberman has caused more damage to our party than he has helped it, I cannot say that I am real happy that you are campaigning for the guy. However, I understand that you and Hillary both have a long personal relationship with him going back at least to 1970 when you assisted him in winning a state Senate race.
So while I will not be happy if he is returned to the Senate, perhaps you could discuss with him his image with the rest of the party.
I really wasn’t happy with him when he unnecessarily piled on you in 1998. Not that he was all that wrong then, but he was doing the Republican’s work for them. Since then he has become the Republican’s favorite Democrat because they can reliably expect him to attack Democrats and Democratic positions. Why else would FOX news be so happy to keep inviting him back? He is also doing the Republican’s work in supporting the disaster they have created in Iraq. But that is not the main thing that makes Sen. Lieberman’s behavior unacceptable. The real problem is that he consistently attacks Democrats rather than Republicans!
Duncan Black (AKA Atrios) in an LA Times Op-Ed July 18th described Sen. Lieberman’s current position in the national Democratic Party best. “For too long he has defined his image by distancing himself from other Democrats, cozying up to right-wing media figures and, at key moments, directing his criticisms at members of his own party instead of at the Republicans in power.”
The rest of Duncan Black’s Op-Ed is worth reading, also. It can be found at http://www.latimes.com/news/op…..ion-center
Before you write me off as “just another blogger anti-Lieberman activist”, don’t. I am age 63, a retired Army Reserve Major and accountant who has lived all but five years in Texas. I admire his efforts as a “Freedom Rider” and am today a bit ashamed that I was not on the bus with him but no one asked me, and in the environment I lived in back in the 60’s would not have ever heard of it outside the media.
If Joe wins the Connecticut Democratic Primary, I will contribute to his campaign as Senator. But if he loses and does not accept the decision of his own Democratic voters, then he is in every way as bad a Democrat as he seems to be to me, as an outsider.
So perhaps you will consider my views and try to get Sen. Lieberman to recognize them. We need Democrats who support the Democratic Party against the Republicans who are taking America into the tank. Joe’s personal views are less important right now than removing the very, very dangerous people the Republicans have placed in office.
Perhaps you can get through to him.
Thanks,
Someone asks above ‘is anyone looking beyond a Lamont victory’. I would ask ‘is anyone looking beyond a Lamont defeat.’ If he loses (and he might, I pray he doesn’t) Joe will be the nominee and Lamont will support him. Can Joe then claim he was abandoned by the Dem party? Well, no. Support from numerous important dems, including a campaign stop from a former President.
If all these outside of Ct pols supported Lamont, Joe would claim that outsiders are telling Ct what to do, and he (Joe) is the true nutmeg candidate. He tries that a little (with funding) now but it doesn’t seem to fly.
As I see it, things are being set up for big support for Lamont if he wins (by the Clintons, etc.) against the repub and against Joe, if necessary, while not burning any bridges if Joe wins. I cannot see that national politicians (like the Clintons) can do anything else.
By the way: my prediction is if Joe loses big in the primary (> 7%) he won’t run as an independent.
Does anyone have a really good reference to what real Liberals stand for?
I have always been more involved in logistics, economics and politics than political theory. I know a lot more about what the Republicans claim Liberals are than I do about the real history about liberals.
Oh, and while I am asking, what are the best references on the western populist movement?
Rick B. @140 – Funny you should ask about liberalism. I’ve just begun the new John Dean book Conservatives Without a Conscience. This is from Chapter 1, pg. 10, the section entitled A Brief History of Modern Conservatism: Shallow and Twisted Roots:
“Unlike classic liberalism, which evolved slowly over centuries, modern conservatism was cobbled together, if not contrived, by a relatively small group of intellectuals during a brief period in the late 1940’s and early 1050’s.”
HTH. Nice letter, BTW.
This may be more clever than the actors in this scene are, but suppose that Bill’s stumping for Joe made him kryptonite to the republicans, since their hate for bubba seems to have no end. And suppose that Bill knew this and, and…. Follow that trail for awhile and see where it leads.
by a relatively small group of intellectuals during a brief period in the late 1940’s and early 1050’s.”
I know Bill Buckley wanted to stand astride the stream of time and shout ‘Stop’, but I didn’t know the National Review crew had actually contrived to make it flow backwards.
;-)
This is all about the “Democratic Leadership Council”
The DLC is all about making the Democrats more conservative, both Clinton and Gore were founders, and Lieberman was chairman for 6 years. — When you look at it this way, it all makes sense.
The whole point of the DLC seems like it was to make the Democratic party into the waffling gutless wonders that they are, because if you look at the Wikipedia entry on the DLC you see that the leadership even included neocons :
Howard Dean once described the DLC as being the “Republican wing of the Democratic Party” and the DLC has steadily refused to criticize the Iraq war. If you want proof, just note that Hillary Clinton won’t condemn the Iraq war either — **Just like Joe Lieberman**.
So there’s really no reason to wonder why Clinton will be there to support his DLC buddy — he’s just trying to keep the influence of the DLC strong. When you see that the aims and funding of the DLC is so similar to that of the Republican party, and that the Democratic Party leadership is composed mostly of members of the DLC (including John Kerry and John Edwards), you can see why the Democrats have been so spectacularly unable to do anything about the Republicans.
Davis:
Oops :-)
Must have hitched a ride in Sherman’s Way Back machine.
Let’s see what Bubba actually SAYS. This would be a good opportunity to damn Lieberschmuck with faint praise. I don’t think Bubba has any love for Joey.
Susan In Iowa at 42 Bill Clinton is being magnanimous in supporting a primary candidate who let him down in an egregious way. Sorry, Egregious.
No problem! I -want- people to use this word.
That’s the whole point.
Speaking of Dean’s book: it is a must read.
There are some fascinating charts delineating Liberals/Conservatives as well as Libertarians and neocons.
Some fascinating tidbits in addition to his overall points, which are spot on.
Hillary is a virtuecrat, same as Holy Joe. *shrug*
Pretty interesting to watch ‘folks’ commenting here tie themselves in knots over ‘Big Dog’s DLC subservience.
Wake up and smell the coffee! What the Founders feared most has come to pass; we have an elected aristocracy. Turnover in the Congress is less than what used to happen in the Supreme Soviet.
It’s not just ‘Rape Gurney’ Joe who has to go. It’s every one of the Congress who voted to ‘authorise’ BushFuhrer to go to war or voted for the Bankruptcy Bill. That’s my litmus test and I’ll defend it against all comers.
Clinton don’t give any more of a shit about anybody commenting here that Joe. He never did.
No one in Congress does.
No one in the Executive does.
Why should they? They use their millions of dollars of Corporate cash to brainwash the few residents of our country who vote into cementing their incumbency. To their way of thinking they don’t need us.
They are wrong.
But I’d feel a lot better if more people realised that the entire system is filled with corrupt sleazebags like Joe and McCain and Biden and yes Clinton. Further that they all have to go. Yeah, Hillary too…what has she ever done that could be considered truly progressive. Truly good for the people instead of good for Rupert Murdoch and his slimy ilk.
It’s been way to long since Roosevelt.
We’ve almost forgotten what a real Progressive is.
It ain’t fuckin’ ‘Big Dog’.
Bill Clinton: Becoming less beloved every day.
Bill Clinton is beloved by liberals.
And Slate is, according to Howie Kurtz today, a liberal blog.
These guys know us better than we know ourselves.
I guess they’re talking about the liberals who aren’t the notorious “some” liberals.
Bill, if you come to Waterbury on Monday I am going to withdraw my support for Hillary in 2008.
This is a complete waste of time. The people who back Joementum despise Bill Clinton. The people who like Clinton despise Joe. All this will do is piss off both factions while accomplishing absolutely nothing.
Hi, Susan (from #42)
You said “If we don’t have room in our party for the less-than-liberal Democrats, we are not going to retake the reins and hold them. Don’t give up what you believe in, but for heaven’s sake don’t shun people because they believe something different.“
Go look at Jim Webb in Virginia or at Ben Nelson Democratic Senator from Nebraska. Ben Nelson is running to the RIGHT of his Republican opponent for Christ’s sake. And Jim Webb is no lefty. I support them both because they are Democrats.
The difference? Neither Webb nor Nelson has stood up nationally and run against his own party. Joe Lieberman has. He cozies up to Republicans and attacks Democrats.
If Joe were thinking politically, he would be attacking Schlesinger (the Republican candidate for Connecticut Senator) rather than Lamont. With the news today that Schlesinger was sued twice in the 90’s for failure to pay his New Jersey gambling debts, Schlesinger is both dead meat and an obvious target.
If Joe were to do that,
cancel the effort to run as an independent,
admit that attacking Democrats for violating his own personal moral and religious codes was unDemocratic and give it up,
and admit that he blew it in cozying up to the Republicans,
I think he could probably still pull out a win in the Connecticut Democratic Primary on August 8th, and that would amount to his (re)election as Connecticut Senator.
And if the Connecticut Democrats give him a majority of their votes, I’d support him. There’s a lot of good there that just seems to have gotten lost in the exposure as a national spokesperson for the Democrats and his ego that made him think it was his views that put him there and not Al Gore’s personal appreciation of his personality.
Joe’s bright, capable, and domestically a very good Democrat excluding reproduction rights. His foreign policy seems to be poll-driven, and he went badly wrong when he tried to cozy up to Bush/Cheney. If he didn’t try to differentiate himself nationally by attacking other Democrats, he wouldn’t be a bad choice for Senator. Not good, but acceptable. He needs to learn that there is no more center in American politics. He is either with us, or we will eliminate him.
Webb and Nelson have had the good sense to not cross that line.