As we stumble towards World War III or IV or V (do I hear VI? VI? Going once . . . going twice . . . ) one key belligerent has yet to be heard from — Al Qaeda, the gang that started this whole bloody business, or that at least provided Don Rumsfeld with the opportunity to "sweep it all up."
Actually, I don’t know for a fact that Bin Ladin and the boys haven’t broken radio silence on the latest outbreak of major-league fighting in Lebanon and Israel/Palestine. But I haven’t found any communiques that bear even a semi-plausible stamp of approval from the Al Qaeda high command. I did, however, come across the following summary of a statement that’s been circulating in cyber-jihadistan. It’s purportedly from a Sheikh Hamed bin Abdullah Ali — a Kuwaiti Salafist leader who was tried, but acquited, on terrorism charges last year. File it under the category of interesting if true:
He [Sheikh al-Ali] writes of Iran as possessing an expansionist, imperialist spirit, hoping to spread its power and influence into the Gulf countries and Iraq, and using the "Crusader/Zionist" alliance as a conduit for part of its goals. However, the sheikh prays: "But at best and in the end — Allah willing — they will be burned with the same fire which they ignited to burn the Muslims."Iran’s "card" has presented the Shi’a Republic an opportunity to achieve its plans, which according to the message, include the coalition with Syria and Iran’s arm in Lebanon, Hezbollah, supporting parties in the countries of the Arab Peninsula and Iraq, capitalizing on the "Palestinian problem," and steps towards achieving nuclear capability . . . Sheikh Hamed al-Ali predicts that a confrontation is approaching, as the entire region of the Middle East in is between "Great War’s hands and mass chaos." But in the end, it will be in Islam’s favor, "even if Islam and its people will have a great disaster."
Both the translation and summary come from an organization I’ve never heard of before, although a friend who I trust completely vouches for its credibility. That said, caveat lector.
In any case, it sounds to me like Sheikh al-Ali is filibustering, which for present purposes I’ll define as making long-winded but essentially pointless statements to obscure the fact that the party line is in some disarray.
Then again, maybe I’m just reading into Sheikh al-Ali’s little dissertation what I can really only speculate to be the case, which is that the sudden eruption of all out hostilities between Hezbollah and Israel — complete with TV footage of Iranian-made missiles falling on Jewish heads — has left Al Qaeda and its sympathizers between a religious rock and an ideological hard place.
The dilemma, of course, is who to treat as the bigger enemy: the God-cursed Shi’a schismatics, or the bloodsucking Crusader/Zionist entity? And if they’re both the sworn agents of Satan, why the hell are they fighting each other? What’s an honest Takfiri supposed to think?
Sheikh al-Ali never really addresses the latter question. He does, however, answer the first one:
The "Shari’a position" then, as the sheikh writes, maintains that Palestine is Islam’s problem, as Muslims should not be deceived by Iran taking it as its own. Iran, he believes, is more dangerous than the "Crusader/Zionist" enemy.(emphasis added)
All righty then. This implies that all good Sunnis (which in the Takfiri user’s guide means "the only good Muslims") should be rooting for the planes with the stars of David on their tails as they drop their payloads over south Beruit. They are, after all, taking the fight to the more dangerous enemy — or its number-one proxy, any way.
Naturally, this is where I start to get a little suspicious of Sheikh al-Ali’s jihadist bona fides. Putting hatred of the partisans of Ali ahead of the war against the Crusader/Zionists may or may not be official Al Qaeda doctrine, but it definitely is consistent with the policy preferences of the leading U.S.-backed Sunni regimes in the region, as seen in this public statement last week from the his Royal Highness Abdullah al-Saud, Keeper of the Two Holy Mosques:
A distinction must be made between legitimate resistance and uncalculated adventures undertaken by elements inside [Lebanon] and those behind them without recourse to the legal authorities and consulting and co-ordinating with Arab nations. These elements should bear the responsibility for their irresponsible actions and they alone should end the crisis they have created.
When the Saudi government is handing out press releases that could have been written by the Israeli Minister of Information (except, of course, for the part about "legitimate resistance") you know the world has been turned upside down.
One reason why I’d like to know how Bin Ladin and Dr. Zawahiri feel about this is that I’m wondering why the Saudis felt it expedient to take such a blatantly pro-Israel line. Did the pressure from Washington amount to the proverbial offer-you-can’t refuse? Is King Abdullah worried about finding a severed Arabian stallion’s head in his bed? Did the royal family just give a huge vote of confidence to its domestic security services?
Or, does the royal clan feel comfortable blowing little wet kisses at Jerusalem right now because they think the Sunni man in the Saudi street (as well as the Sunni terrorist in the Saudi safe house) is more worried about the Shi’a peril than about Crusader/Zionist expansionism?
One can see two possibilities here. The first is that World War III/IV/V has reached one of those Eurasia/Eastasia moments where everybody — and not just here in Oceania — suddenly switches enemies. Booman at The Booman Tribune pointed today to a possible example of this shift in Iraq, where the New York Times reports that Sunni leaders are having second thoughts about a U.S. troop withdrawal:
As sectarian violence soars, many Sunni Arab political and religious leaders once staunchly opposed to the American presence here are now saying they need American troops to protect them from the rampages of Shiite militias and Shiite-run government forces . . . The Sunnis also view the Americans as a "bulwark against Iranian actions here," a senior American diplomat said.
This is, of course, the Outer Party Times talking here — with a co-byline from Dexter Filkins, last seen doing script rewrites for the Pentagon Channel. Once again, caveat lector. But also interesting if true.
How far such a realigment could go is anybody’s guess. A friend (see above) told me today that he’d heard through the grapevine that the other King Abdullah, of Jordan, recently told Shrub he believed the Sunni-Sh’ia showdown would soon supplant the Israeli-Arab conflict as the defining grudge match in the Middle East. But then the little king would say that, given who pays to keep his little dynasty afloat.
Put me down as an agonostic. King Abdullah does not, shall we say, have a whole lot of street cred — not unless the street in question is Pennsylvannia Avenue. True, there is a fine old tradition in the Middle East of the enemy of my enemy being my friend, but these things do have their limits. One of the things I took away from Nir Rosen’s book, In the Belly of the Green Bird was just how entrenched and abiding popular hatred and suspicion of the Israelis is among both Shi’a and Sunni, or at least in Iraq. (I’ve come across the same attitudes, albeit expressed more politely, in Egypt and Jordan as well.) My gut — not my most attractive organ but sometimes my smartest — tells me Hezbollah is earning major brownie points on the Arab street by standing up to the Zionists and, what’s more, sending some ordinance flying back their way.
Whether that pathology will act as a brake on the willingness or ability of U.S.-backed Sunni regimes to publicly toe the Cheney administration’s line I don’t know. The Christian Science Monitor suspects it might, but I’d say that only Hosni Mubarak’s security advisors really know for sure.
But that still leaves the second of my two possibilities — one that is distinctly less favorable for Team Oceania than a Shi’a-Sunni death match (which is a divide-and-conquer wet dream.) However senior Al Qaeda leaders feel about Hezbollah and the emerging Shi’a crescent, they can’t be too happy about seeing their status in the terrorist celebrity pantheon overshadowed by Hezbollah’s starring role in the Lebanon extravaganza — particularly at a time when Al Qaeda is already under considerable pressure to prove it still has political and operational relevance. But there’s really only way to show the world who the real scourge of the Jews and Crusaders is: By executing a major terrorist attack, either in Israel (hard) America (less hard) or Britain (even less hard — although something bigger than a couple of pipe bombs in the Tube would probably be necessary to make the point.)
The bottom line is that like any fading rock group, Al Qaeda badly needs a hit to avoid being permanently supplanted in the public eye by its Shi’a rival, which is setting the charts ablaze, so to speak. If the original band or its various spin offs have any ambitious projects on the drawing boards, now might be the opportune time to put them into production. Which means it’s at least possible that the silent party won’t remain silent much longer.
Billmon blogs at The Whiskey Bar
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Billmon!
this kerfuffle in Gaza and Lebanon will not be without bad consequences in Iraq …
Wow, what a post. Head spinning…
Yes, I know, the blog has gone downhill, it used to be great and now we’re just an echo chamber and want to hear everyone agree with us and say how great we are, it’s all just egotistical blathering now, blah blah blah.
Nonetheless this will be a flame-free discussion of the post at hand.
Whenever things start heating up in the Middle East, The Whiskey Bar is the first place I go to quench my thirst…
Great post Billmon. I can’t wait to get home and reread it. Lot to learn here.
Of course Al Qaida is going to have another hit. PNAC needs a sequel to “The Pet Goat” to keep the Gopers in power.
Goper’s Lament
That was great — and you have been burning up that pages at Whiskey Bar. My guess is that al-Ali is acting the Roosevelt part during the German invasion of Russia — hoping the two will destroy each other so that all “good people” will be better off. Those fantasy plans never come through…
Great analogy!
Scary thought
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5192990.stm
You ladies of the lake actually read my mind; I’d been hoping you’d get around to inviting, or at least cross-posting, Billmon.
Steve Clemons posts a thoughtful and informative set of 10 Comments by his friend Daniel Levy http://www.thewashingtonnote.c…..001545.php
Hail billmon!!
My “head spinning” post was meant as a complement – that is a lot of good analysis by billmon & I meant to convey that it was a lot for me to digest. Sorry if that was unclear.
Big fan of all you do.
Hey mon, good to see you here at FDL. To my mind, you’ve posted a lot of very, very good stuff lately over at Whiskey Bar.
Glad to have a chance to thank you for it!
Billmon has occasionally commented in here — the reaction here is like Justin Timberlake stopping by an all-girls high school!
Billmon,
Best essay on this to appear on the web so far! By far! I read it late this morning after seeing it tagged elsewhere. I sort of envision some strange corrider in the Pentagon where the Office of Special Plans – Doug Feith’s former turf – is door one, with Israeli Generals drifting in and out. Then, further down the corrider we have another Office of Special Plans (Sunni Division) with Pakistani and Saudi Generals going in and out – every once in a while carrying with them a rolled up rug with none other than Osama inside. Then, at the end of the corrider you have The Office of Special Plans (Shia Division) with people like discredited Shiite bankers and scam artists going in and out the door.
Every once in a while, Dick Cheney shows up late at night, after he’s been sipping way too much Wild Turkey. He’s usually too far gone to know which of the three doors he goes into from night to night. But after the office staff plies him with more Wild Turkey, the VP eventually staggers out with advice for the next week’s campaign plan for the GWOT.
longtime fdl and whiskey bar reader who just wanted to say how much i enjoy billmon’s writing. it’s nice to see him cross-posted here. thanks!
Billmon, a tour de force, keed! Count another head a-spinnin’ here.
IF ONLY all the women, children, and uncrazed men could be plucked to safety (Mohammad, Ali, Jehovah — get on it, chaps!) so ALL and ONLY the rabid mullahs, the ultra-Zionists, and the pasty neo-cons could meet in the desert to set to work bare-handed until the last pair strangle each other . . . ah, how much more productive this world could be.
most excellent
that is a lot of good analysis by billmon & I meant to convey that it was a lot for me to digest.
Same here, no way am I going to keep up with the converstation and actually read all that! Jeez, what do you expect of us?
;)
There has been surprisingly little mention of Saudi Arabia in regards to the latest flaring of warfare. Anyone looking at a map of the Middle East will see they’re between Iran and Lebanon with the destabilized region formerly known as Iraq on their north border.
Perhaps the Saudi royal family plans to sit out the war between Israel and Syria/Iran, but something tells me the best laid plans of oil sheiks don’t always turn out as intended…
BTW, add another player to the mix:
That’s great, just great, all we need.
In. Freakin. Credible, noen.
I meant Saudi Arabia is between Iran and Jordan, dang.
considering Turkey is the country on Lebanon’s northern border, I wondered how long they would stay out of things — I’ve also wondered why refugees dont flee Lebanon via Turkey …
I’m sorry…I think we need a roster of the different players in the middle east. It is getting too confusing of just which state/terrorist organization favors/hates which other state/terrorist organization, and which religious sect each of these state/terrorist organizations are formed from.
Turkey is a bit removed from the action in south Lebanon but it might see an opportunity to settle its score with the Kurds while everyone else is busy. Who’s running things on our end? Oh yeah, Cheney, down in his bunker his face lit from below from the green glow of the instrument clusters. I can see that lip start to curl… we in trouble…
Just heard a colloquy between Wolfie and the Admiral heading up the evac of Americans from Lebanon. In response to Wolfie’s question about slow response, the Admiral noted where ships were coming from and that people would see the full measure of our commitment to evacing.
So my questions are, was this a set-up for spin to save Bushie’s pattern-image? and is the slow response demonstration of how thinly stretched our military is to respond in a crisis?
And, yeah, it’s a sad commentary on the times that cynicism colors my reaction to any statement out of the Radical Bush Regime, beit Bush itself or those he deciderates over.
zAmboni 27 — sign me up for that.
Well Bush sure refrained from putting up ANY amber light, let alone red one in the way of the IDF for the next two weeks.
*ilson, You’re right. Is Turkey letting Lebanese refugees in and nobody’s paying attention, or what?!
Cafferty honking on the pay-yer-own-way tardy evac:
“Welcome to the Twilight Zone!”
Interesting — the best explanation for the statement by the Sunni leadership in Iraq for the Americans to stay.
I have one problem though — Hezbullah is Shia and Hamas is Sunni I believe. Doesn’t their coordianation agaginst Israel speak of cooperation between the two groups and work against the Sunn-Shia reallignment you propose?
TPMMuckraker is reporting that the State Dept. is requiring citizens to pay for evacuation.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001155.php
If the tax cuts are working, can’t some of that excess revenue go to pay to get those US citizens to safety? After all, how much is it costing for Jenna Bush to cavort in South America?
I really hate it when I find myself agreeing with Newt Gingrich, but over the weekend he said we were witnessing the beginning of WW III and he may be right.
Never forget, WW I started with a little dust up in the Balkans over the assisnation of Ferdinand
PS, not only is our miltary stretched too thin, it’s so incompetently managed that it’s about as effective as a field of armed dandelions.
CNN is reporting that Reid and Pelosi are comparing Bush’s dilatory evacuation plans to Bush’s performance on Katrina …
lotus 32 -
Bush’s FFS government (Fee For Service).
And, yes, I would like fries with those National Park Service Bald Eagle McNuggets.
Wonder where the House of Saud is planning to bug-out to — Georgetown? Aspen?
*ilson at 37
Now THAT’s something I like to hear
The Saudis also have a) a Shia population of their own for concern, and b) a schism in the Sunni ideology between practical Sunnis and theology driven Sunnis and the response to US troops is very different.
I think the next to last paragraph is really chillingly likely. It’s got that “be careful when you hear nothing” aspect as well, bc while the push is on for the “new hit” you never really know when it will come.
ok, one more, then I have to get back to being productive. Don’t know if this blog has been posted before, forgive me if it has
There are also some pics, you might want to prepare yourself for one of them.
Reading posts as insightful and well-informed as this, and then tuning into the MSM makes me feel as if there are two bizarre parallel universes side by side.
Actually, Billmon had a post not long ago referencing Orwell that sums that feeling up quite nicely, now that I think of it. He’s everywhere!!!
OT: When’s the stem cell vote?
link… jeez, sorry ’bout that
http://lebanesebloggers.blogspot.com/
The current era of violence in the ME started with the violent colonialist religious maniac who boasted of being a “raging flood-wave who destroys even walls of stone” and claimed to be following the will of God. Since that time things have gone downhill.
See this expose.
thanks for posting here billmon. it’s the clearest explanation of the situation that i have heard yet. the talking heads are clueless.
there you go again, citizen k, posting Mesopotamian propaganda!
I have re-read this post three times today and could read it more. Very, very well-written with lots of clever Billmon word-play.
A scary message that we would be smart to keep in mind.
Lastly, it appears that Chimpy has blundered incompetently into complete irrelevance. It is now beyond his control or should I say “Big Time’s” control.
(waves)
Hey Billmon.
I’m not sure what al-Queda is thinking, but I can’t believe that the Shi’a and the Sunnis hate each other more than they hate the Israelis and, by extension, us. Enemies, enemies, everywhere we turn.
And I hope you’re wrong about the silent party- I don’t think I could take anymore bad news.
1. So, Ohlmert now says that Hezbollah attacked as a diversion for Iran? Hmmm. I sorta doubt it. I think it was more of a copy-cat thing. Days earlier, Hamas captured an Israeli soldier. Next, Hezbollah wants to get in on the act. Why did Hamas do its attack? I think they got pissed at that shelling by an Israeli warship onto a beach which killed some folks. Remember that little news item? And round and round they go. Israel and the palestinians are like a couple of children…only with deadly capabilities.
2. wilson….you sure about Turkey? I thought Syria wraps around N. Lebanon. I’m not sure of a Lebanon-Turkey contiguous border?
Ghostman
Ghostman,
I checked map, you are correct.
Israel excells at brief high-intensity conflict and at protracted conflicted of very low intensity. It appears that Hezbollah has prepared for protracted medium-intensity conflict. Isreal has had some success in avoiding protracted medium-intensity conflict by coercing the the Jordanians or factions within Lebanon to do its dirty work. This time, the tactic of roughing up the Lebanese seems to have simply provoked resentment. Perhaps now the effort will be to get the U.S. to pressure Syria to cut off supplies deny sanctuary to Hezbollah.
BobbyG and lotus–rather than Fee For Service to describe the Bush “government” I’d echo whoever proposed this description:
FFY
Fend for Yourself
Nobody gets out for free, dead or alive. Complete abandonment by the government of Americans both abroad and at home (New Orleans).
Excellent post billmon.
One of the things I think that a rational West would consider, would be a repartitioning of the Middle East area that actually takes into account the religious distributions of the different factions. (Obviously with the willing participation of most of the players, not imposed from outside).
Iraq would be split into 3 parts: Shia, Sunni, and Kurdistan. Part of Turkey would be split off to join Kurdistan. The Israel/Palestine borders would become set and that conflict settled. Lebanon split into Shia south/non-Shia north. Etc.
Had we insisted on partitioning Iraq into 3 parts right at the beginning, a lot of this mess wouldn’t be happening now. (Yes I know, Turkey would have thrown a fit. And yes I know, going there at all was not necessary or desireable.)
One of the more disingenuous things thrown about is the whole Iranian nukes thing. Who, exactly, are they worried about the Iranians nuking? Israel is the obvious target, but would the Iranians be stupid enough to irradiate Palestinans too? Would they risk destroying the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem? I don’t think so, they are too shrewd for that. They don’t dare attack Saudi Arabia with nukes, that would enrage the whole Muslim world. And again they wouldn’t want to risk damaging Mecca and Medina. Theoretically they could hit Europe, but Europe has been much friendlier to Iran than the US has, and it wouldn’t really help them very much.
I don’t think Iran is much of a nuclear threat to anyone. (Ignoring the ability to sell nuclear technology to others).
RE;puppethead and the TPM link.
It’s definitely gettin’ fascist around here. Gonna make the families pay for the fuckin’ bullets next?
Check the map. I am pretty sure Lebanon was carved out of Syria by the colonial powers that be.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/ma…..ebanon.htm
-GSD
I don’t know which conflict will end up taking priority, but I heard Sunday on one of the talking head shows that Al-Qaeda had attempted to assassinate Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah) a few months back, but that this whole situation has now put him in a very strong position. (and no, I’m not confusing this with the Israeli assassination attempt, this was in addition to it.)
I’m really sorry that I DON’T remember who said it, or on what show. I’m sure some research will bear this out tho
*ilson46201 #46:
Look at the damn map. It’s pretty clear that the territorial claims of you Nippurnian apologists are just so much spiled barley beer.
Partitioning
Yeah- but they ain’t OUR countries. YOU wanna be the guy to tell the Turks that we want a piece of their country to fit into our jigsaw puzzle? This is the mentality that caused this problem in the first place! (Using another country as a grand social experiment.)
It’s so frustrating. Things never seem to be what they appear to be in the Middle East. And the penumbre of possible and mythical motives in that region is intellectually suffocating and numbing. Still, there is the nagging feeling that if the U.S. and others were not perceived on the Arab street as plundering the Arab world of their black-gold and not constantly promoting intrigues and playing one country against another, or fomenting conflict, or using Israel as our proxy for regional aggression and destabilization, and using diplomacy instead of force to solve the Palestinian question, we wouldn’t be sliding ever closer to the edge of the cliff. Any way you cut it, it is us that has been interfering in the Arab world. The Arabs have not been messing around in our country’s affairs for a hundred years or more, and trying to convert us to their religion. It’s obviously been the other way ’round. And we are just beginning to see the payback for all our “cleverness”.
I know this is a really bad attitude to have, but personally, I maxed out on the “bad news forum” several months ago. Anything new in the ME, or Bush stupidities, or whatever, and I am sort of numb. I am beyond my capacity to be more depressed, infuriated, agonized, etc. than I already am.
This leaves me in a rather intersting situation of sitting back and just absorbing all this gawdafuwl crap with some morbid fascination about how it is all going to play out, and how future historians are going to call it.
Great post, bilmon…
New Question up at Lamont Blog:
Will Sen. Lieberman rule out running on the Republican ballot line in November?
Has he ever made a clear statement ruling out such a move?
http://lamontblog.blogspot.com/
Last week I voiced concern about how the stresses of this medium-intensity conflict, superimposed on the existed Iraq fiasco will play out through the left blogosphere. We’ve had a week to watch some trends develop: Some sites are staying out of it. Like Al Franken said about his show, “We don’t do Israel here.” Some sites have tried to explain why they’re staying out of it – too complicated, too much hate mail, etc.
Josh Marshall and his sites are leaning toward Israel. Here’s Josh’s response to Richard Cohen’s weird op-ed in todays WaPo:
Agree with Matt on this one: I found Richard Cohen’s column in the Post this morning a bit ugly and more silly. Glib in a way that addresses none of the serious issues in play on either side.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..009087.php
Josh is referring to Matt Yglesias’s post at TPMCafe, called “Mistakes were Made.”
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/yg….._were_made
More interesting than Yglesias’s essay is the comments section below it, which has some gems, a higher than average amount of BS, but a lot of genuine discussion.
Redd and Jane should be commended for bringing in experts like Billmon and Taylor Marsh. I do hope the comments posted to their essays continue at the high level which has been the case so far.
Israeli actions and how they are characterized have the potential to cause confusion on the left right when we need to be unifying in the last 100 days before the fall elections.
Re: #59
Yes, Lebanon was carved out of Syria by the French to form a Christian-majority country, though in the meantime, large numbers of Lebanese Christians emigrated and the Muslims had larger families, so Christians are now down to about a third (although, because of the jury-rigged confessional system that runs Lebanon, there hasn’t been an official census in a long time because accurate numbers could destabilize the power-sharing arrangement).
Despite this, there’s of course a historical antecedent; Lebanon was a separate kingdom in pre-Islamic times. Still, you’ll hear Syrians argue that Lebanon should be theirs, and it would have been if it weren’t for the perfidious French.
Great post, Billmon. There’s no justice in the world when we get such great writing on blogs but get Friedman & Brooks in the MSM. Where’s my meritocracy?
Hezbollah, the Manchester United of terrorism, has refrained from attacking the US since the Marines were bombed out of Beirut in the early 80’s. One thing that worries me is that the very public green light Bush is giving to Israel to maliciously and sadisticly kill Lebanese civilians in the name of battling Hezbollah is going to turn this terror group against us once again. Forget Al Qaeda.
I suspect that despite the little flash of pro-Israel rhetoric the Saudis are actually still agnostic too, and they’re probably fretting about it pretty hard.
In a lot of ways AQ (the brand that is — not so much the individual franchises) is to the House Saud as Hizbollah is to Tehran. But in other ways the situation is dramatically different, and the dilemma you’re talking about is a very tough call. For the Saudis, AQ is a pressure release valve. They obviously can’t smack down their own wingnuts (takfiris, wahhabis, salafis, jihadis, whatever; they’re still wingnuts), so Saudi security means pointing the wingnuts away from the palace and giving them plenty of walking-around money, and hoping they don’t get too much out of hand.
When they do get out of hand (see Bin Laden, Osama), it’s awkward for everybody and it has to be smoothed over with the Great Satan, which is growing increasingly difficult for a whole range of reasons. OTOH, the officially sanctioned jihad has to have some credibility, which means it has to have some symbolic victories. Once you create (or inherit) a population of wingnuts you have to keep them regularly tended and fed, because otherwise they tend to fall under the influence of some other demagogue. Maybe one who wants to use them to unseat you.
So the Saudis walking a mighty fine line, and it would be sensible of them to postpone any major decisions until it’s clear how the first battle plays out. Even if Hizbollah is the new hot stars of the Arab Street, it might be better to settle for riding their coattails than to forgo any future chance of comeback by putting out an album too soon and watching it, er, bomb so to speak.
Frank @ 44:
Senate approves embryonic stem cell bill
AP – 14 minutes ago
WASHINGTON – The Senate voted Tuesday after two days of emotional debate to expand federal funding of embryonic stem cell research and sent the measure to President Bush for a promised veto, the first of his presidency. The bill passed 63-37, four votes short of the two-thirds majority that would be needed to override Bush’s veto. The president left little doubt he would reject the bill despite late appeals on its behalf from fellow Republicans Nancy Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Kurt at 56:
Had we insisted on partitioning Iraq into 3 parts right at the beginning, a lot of this mess wouldn’t be happening now.
I don’t agree. Those who talk about the Sunni, Shi’a, and Kurdish “areas” of Iraq are guilty of gross oversimplification. Partition at the beginning would have involved ethnic cleansing (the forced relocation kind, not the mass-murdering kind) on a massive scale. Baghdad and the surrounding areas, where IIRC a third of the population of the country lives, are highly mixed, and either deporting them to another region or setting up over them a government explicitly ruled by another sectarian/ethnic group would have been a war crime of epic proportions.
The ethnic cleansing (the mass-murdering kind) required for partition may happen as a result of the postwar maladministration, but it wouldn’t have been any more pretty if we’d done it deliberately.
There is simply no way a lot of “this mess” could have been avoided except by not going in.
Am I the only one that questions why our government would send a slow-moving cruise ship into a battlezone to pick up U.S evacuees? Talk about a big fat target.
Wonder what would happen if somehow there were a suspicious incident involving that ship?
Any guesses as to who might benefit from just such an incident?
Any guesses as to who the Bush administration might blame?
My pick would be Iran, since they seem to be the next target of opportunity for the neo-cons.
Tinfoil hat territory? Maybe, but I don’t put anything past these cretins.
REMEMBER THE MAINE!!!
Terror-torialism
According to statements by Robin Cook ,who resigned from his post as Leader of the British House of Commons and Lord President of the Council on March 17, 2003 in protest against the 2003 invasion of Iraq,in an article in The Guardian shortly before his death:Al-Qaida, literally “the database”, was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.I think it is important to distinguish the difference between proxy forces or potentially “synthetic” terrorism and indigenous forces that are defending themselves from attack and territorial push-back. Also what appears to be forgotten is the context of the forces of traditiional Anglo-American imperialism (OIL) and Israel (Security by intimidation).Looks like the same old suspects circa 1920 forward with a nod to the former Ottoman Empire (Turkey, your parting gift…Kurdistan) are just continuing to slice dice and re-order this area for their own perpetual gain. Anything else is picking flyshit out of black pepper.To understand the neighbourhood I think you have to ask yourself what it would be like to be a pedestrian on that particular Highway to Hell
Billmon is an impeccable writer, and I don’t think people are flocking here like he was Justin. It is good to see that FDL has Billmon as a guest writer.
Brilliant Billmon.
Israeli actions and how they are characterized have the potential to cause confusion on the left right when we need to be unifying in the last 100 days before the fall elections.
I agree. I cannot fathom why ordinarily rational people completely lose their minds when Israeli politics is the subject. It’s as though every conflict in Israel must have a pairing of complete opposites. It’s like an enforced narrative built on comic book morality. Just because Hezbollah is a violent, extremist organization, that doesn’t justify any action Israel wishes to take against them. It often seems that Israel and its enemies are in a race to the bottom, similar to the U.S. involvement with Iraq. Perhaps that’s why Israel finds so much affection among American conservatives: Israel’s willing to just as violent as its enemies, which is the foreign policy dream of conservatives here.
I’m not much of a Richard Cohen fan, but the point of his column today I thought was that it was probably a mistake to think that plunking a entire population of displaced Jewish people down entirely surrounded by Muslim countries was going to end up well.
Which, in my mind, is probably a true statement. Forced interaction of very different cultures rarely ends well.
There’s a middle-east-map-for-dummies on This Old Brit’s blog. (Some good background info links too).
http://rickwrites.blogspot.com/
The ethnic cleansing (the mass-murdering kind) required for partition may happen…
I see a corallary to this line of thought on numerous rightwing blogs, though they talk about it as something they’d like to see happen. It’s essentially the idea that the Middle East really hasn’t had its “Big War” the way Europe has. The wingnuts call for a major regional conflict because they believe the residents of the Middle East need to fight out their differences until they’re tired of fighting with each other.
Setting aside the obvious sociopathic and racist nature of such a belief, I think it also fails in practice. If history has shown anything, it’s that no amount of killing will appease fundamentalists, religious or nationalist.
mk ultramaroon:
picking flyshit out of black pepper…
classic!
the point of his column today I thought was that it was probably a mistake to think that plunking a entire population of displaced Jewish people down entirely surrounded by Muslim countries was going to end up well.
I’ve often wondered why they couldn’t have found a better place for a Jewish nation. Say, Florida, for example, or part of France. Aside from that whole Biblical thing, of course.
Redshift @72
The ethnic cleansing (the mass-murdering kind) required for partition may happen as a result of the postwar maladministration, but it wouldn’t have been any more pretty if we’d done it deliberately.
There is simply no way a lot of “this mess” could have been avoided except by not going in.
Well that was my main thought, how do we avoid genocide, now that we are where we are. It’s not an ideal solution (partition), but standing by and doing nothing while genocide plays out doesn’t seem to be a better one.
And to rwcole above, no I don’t want to be the one to tell Turkey hehe…but realistically an independent (Iraqi) Kurdistan would pretty much immediately come into conflict with Turkey, over the issue of all of the Kurds living in SW Turkey. Dealing with it up front rather than waiting until the shelling starts would seem to be a better idea.
I don’t know, I just know that what’s going on on the ground now isn’t working, and the people at the helm either have no clue how to fix it, or are willfully standing by and allowing it for political purposes. Just throwing some ideas out there to chew on.
zeppo at 64 This leaves me in a rather intersting situation of sitting back and just absorbing all this gawdafuwl crap with some morbid fascination about how it is all going to play out, and how future historians are going to call it.
Do you have children, nieces, nephews, neighbor children? They will have to clean up this mess. Let’s do what we can to keep it from being even worse.
They will be the ones to be scorned by the civilized world, a la Germany, and living in poverty, thanks to tax cuts, unless they are the charmed 1%.
At a minimum try to educate some of the younger ones about what is happening, so they will understand after it is all over. You can despair for yourself (and being bipolar I’m all over that) but we have an obligation to the next generation to hold on as long as we can.
For those needing a good map of the Middle East
here is one:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps…..l_2003.jpg
Just think how nice it would be to have an expert on the Middle East anywhere in the Bush administration’s top brass. Just think how nice it would be to have a President who could actually find the Middle East on a map. Too bad Gore (20 years foreign policy experience) was too brainy and Kerry (30 years foreign policy experience) was too flip-floppy.
Oh, and: I’ll respectfully disagree with Billmon’s final conclusion that al queda will now launch an attack to “prove itself” or some such. Al queda works on its on timeline, regardless of what else goes on in the world. I truly believe that more al queda attacks are coming, but they’ll be carried out regardless.
What does Osama have to say about this ME mess? Hmmm. It wouldn’t surprise me to hear a tape where some sort of diplomatic praise comes forth from Osama’s crowd towards Hezbollah. Ever the statesman, that Osama.
Ghostman
“I’ve often wondered why they couldn’t have found a better place for a Jewish nation.”
God’s Chosen People. Right.
He plops ‘em down in the only place in the region with no oil, and surrounded by enemies.
_
egregious @ 82: I knew I would get some flack along those lines. Yes, of course, I and all of fellow humans have a stake in trying to make all this turn out correctly. I was just stating my feelings that it is all going to happen, probably badly, no matter what any of us do. Another one of those maelstorms that sort of happen every 50 to 60 years, give or take.
I am not feeling very generous toward our species. We haven’t advanced one bit since Roman times. We just have better weapons. And that is something that I don’t think any one of us can fix. We can work toward a solution to this problem or that problem, large, small or huge. But my problem is with us as a species.
If I believed in God, I would think He/She is not very impressed.
Though lesser than Billmon’s analysis, Jamie Rubin’s is interesting too:
Bush and Blair’s Revealing and Depressing Conversation
This’ll fix things- Jesus isn’t coming back to Jerusalem– He’s coming back to Salem Massachusettes—there was a big and laughable translation error in the Vulgate that got passed on through the King James- so it doesn’t MATTER what happens in Israel- pass it ON!
Jane, you are amazing.
People want to hear about M.E. issues, so rather than opining on an issue you admittedly aren’t expert in, you have guest posts by Gilliard and Billmon.
I wish all arenas of discussion were as rewarding as this one. Kudos.
Dexter Filkins, interviewed on Fresh Air today, acknowledged that Iraq is in the midst of a civil war. paraphrasing: “how can you call it anyting but that, with 2000 bodies in the Baghdad morgue and fifty people killed daily?”
reinforcing this bit…
…he said that Sunni groups have agreed to Shiite police searches and such only if these govt. forces are accompanied by US troops. Otherwise it’s desparecido time, and the Sunnis vow to fire on the Shiite police. Said that families are actually relieved if relatives are taken into custody by the US instead, because they’re pretty sure the captive won’t end up machine-gunned in a ditch, burned by acid, or have legs pierced with electric drill before execution. (YMMV)
People want to hear about M.E. issues, so rather than opining on an issue you admittedly aren’t expert in, you have guest posts by Gilliard and Billmon.
Now if you could just get Juan Cole, you’d have the trifecta.
By the way, Nur Al Cubicle has been doing a rundown of what the non-U.S. press says about the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict. Some great perspectives.
Thanks for the analysis of what is totally unfathomable. Suffice to say, when religious fervor is involved, the outcome is always in doubt–or, put another way, there never is a final outcome. The scary part is that there is no world leader with the respect and mandate to influence the actions of the combatants. Even scarier, might Pakistan get involved? Then comes India.
I’m blaming Bush–when sh%t hits the fan–it spreads. When the captain of the largest ship in a bay is incompetent and stupid–the wake kills.
Thanks for the post, billmon.
I agree Samurai Sam, Juan Cole is a daily must read for me! This snippet from his post today gave me chills.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“If the reports coming out of Lebanon can be believed, the Israelis are only sometimes striking known Hizbullah safe houses or facilities or missile emplacements. A lot of their bombardment appears aimed at punishing civilian populations and forcing them north to Beirut. Such an approach would help explain the high number of civilian casualties. That is, there may be an element of ethnic cleansing in Israeli tactics.”
http://www.juancole.com/
I have read everything everyone is saying but with my limited knowledge (albeit reading everything I can get my eyeballs on) it just seems overwhelmingly complicated — which of course it is.
But the republicans are preparing to frame this as we need them to keep us safe from all these bad actors. And what are the dems doing aside from figuring out how to agree with what is happening and tsk-tsking from the sidelines about how they could do it better. Is that going to help our side take back our country?
It is troubled times that we need great leaders and we have none. And ‘getting out of Iraq’ will now seem to be foolish because we ‘need our troops overthere’ protecting … what? the oilines?
So I sit on the sidelines. Reading … worrying… wondering…
UP #91,
Indeed. The Wayback Machine just deposited us at Daily Kos circa spring 2003… two very valuable posts, props to all…
Laura Rozen and Larry Johnson have had some interesting info too.
One thing I don’t understand (and they are many) is why the US does not make the safety of its own citizens and nationals its primary concern in this conflict. It’s one thing to recognize a right in Israel to respond to provocation, but to not even try to get a ceasefire in place so that US Nationals can be taken out of harm way — that just seems like a nation abandoning its own.
I don’t see how Israel could get too bent out of shape for a request to back off while non-hostile nations move their citizens out of harms way – they might not do it, but it’s for sure not an “offensive” request. Any nation that doesn’t make it seems irresponsible to their own citizens, notwithstanding Tony Snow’s admonition to Helen Thomas that asking about a cease fire is repeating “Hizbollah’s point of view.”
Then there are lots more complex issues, but that first one – why any nation wouldn’t at least ask for a cease fire to get its people safe- seems very unanswered.
OT – Feingold has a kos diary on Hamdan/wiretap
I guess it’s times like this that you wonder about the Dubai deal…..
United States Leasing Cruise Ship for Lebanon Evacuation
The U.S. government has hired a Lebanon-based cruise ship, the Orient Queen, to help with the evacuation of U.S. citizens from Lebanon. The Orient Queen is operated by Lebanon-based Abou Merhi Cruises and will start ferrying evacuees from Lebanon to Cyprus on July 18. The Orient Queen can hold about 750 passengers.
http://cruises.about.com/b/a/256328.htm
but, Mary, the preznit hasn’t even picked up the phone to speak to Olmert! And Condi doesn’t think the “time is right” for a visit.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0718.html
OT: sorry if this is a repeat – new Lamont ads, via Kos.
Well, I for one am so very glad that the GOP is in control of things. You know how bad those pesky dems are at international relations and foreign policy. I get a good nights sleep knowing that sane and rational neo-cons are running the world. I think the GOP should do well this fall because everyone feels so safe and sound with them in power.
—
sarcasm off
Okay, so Syria which is predominantly Sunni but secular, and Iran which is a Shia theocracy but not an Arab state, a very important fact in trying to figure out what’s going on, have an uneasy alliance, with both states supporting Hezbollah (Shia) in Lebanon. Why has Syria turned toward Iran? Fear of Israel and US.
Other Arab states, that are mostly monarchies have sort of made their peace with Israel, although they have to pay lip service (and lots of money) to supporting the Palestinian cause to keep their citizenry happy. They don’t really fear Israel (not more than their own populations) and are dependent upon the US economically and militarily. But the last thing that these shaky monarchies can do is be perceived as being pro-Israeli, even if its when Israel is attacking the Shia.
Almost every Arab state has a sizable Shia minority population, at least 15% in most countries, that have been kept under control to this point. But how long could that last if this conflict escalates?
FYI– Zbig and Kissinger coming up on Newshour.
(I’ve already warned my cat)
New thread-more Ned.
Billmon–thanks for the writings over the past week. They’ve been very thought-provoking. To me that’s even better than being right.
Sorry, the whole thing seems so incomprehensible I feel certain I’m missing something important. I just feel that the previous ten times I’ve seen exactly the same beginning, it ends with an afternoon of Israeli airstrikes and then everyone yells a lot and it smolders another year until the next round. I don’t know what’s different this time around.
Back in June 2004, Billmon and Whiskey Bar flies were trying to comprehend how the Iranians had infiltrated Ahmed Chalabi’s Iraqi National Congress, and suckered the US into taking out Saddam. Ah, for the days of chocolates and flowers!
Anyway, an Iranian (an ex-pat in Paris?) posted the following — it’s still resonant, what with Hezbollah taking it to the IDF.
The Great Game
http://billmon.org/archives/001504.html
-ck- @ 108 – that’s what it feels like – as if we’ve been totally gamed by Iran (or not – maybe they are just letting us think that!)
Condi going to the UN on Thursday and the ME on Friday.
Maybe, the undersec’y just said he cannot confirm.
Oh, poo! The correct title of the Billmon piece is:
The Great Purge
http://billmon.org/archives/001504.html
Old Coastie — every thing that Commander Codpiece has done in the Middle East has benefitted Iran. We’ve taken out their enemies; installed their allies in power; and now that they’ve neutralized the US Army and Marines as an effective fighting force, the same is being done to the IDF by Hezbollah.
While Iran doesn’t want to lose, I’m sure they are willing to fight the Zionists to the last drop of Lebanese and Syrian blood.
Somebody please put Zbig in charge! He says we should be talking to everyone, ostracism works for nobody. It may go nowhere, but try! If Condi does not get anything done, she should try Henry’s method of STAYING and working.
Eerie the echo chamber from the past:
“Our armies do not come into your cities and lands as conquerors or enemies but as liberators.” Gen Stanley Maude, when British troops occupied Baghdad in 1917
“The main thing is to secure the early choice of Faisal.” British Colonial Sec Winston Churchill, in 1921, referring to efforts to install the pro-British Prince Faisal as king of the new Iraqi nations, although Faisal was not an Iraqi.
“Oil has not the remotest connection with with my attitude or with that of His Majesty’s government on the Mosul question or the Iraqi question.” British Foreign Sec Lord Curzon, in a 1923 speech as Britain and Turkey jockeyed for control of the oil-rich Mosul Province.
Cbear – Neat thought, ships are probably equipped to destroy missles, however I agree with where the blame would be placed (Iran). Excuse to go into Iran and put their nuke program back to square -50? Also surprised U.S. gave Israel green light to use overkill on Hez and Hamas, still – kills 2 birds with 10,000 stones. Iran learned from N. Korea, delay, delay, delay till the nukes are built. Iran is testing Israel – West with Hez, and shifting attention. Osama will praise them all.
Excellent!
-ck- >”…every thing that Commander Codpiece has done in the Middle East has benefitted Iran…”
Remember Iran-Contra ?
What was the deal ?
We gave arms to Iran via Israel (and who knows what else)
All part of a larger long range plan reordering the layout of the planet`s power blocks so that the “friends of agreement” (see Carlyle Group, Shanghai Cooperation Organization etc) can grasp the lever of control (Chrome Dildo of Power is how I label it but some might grok better the Ring of Power label)
The world existed one way under the British Empire & will exist a different way under the Planetary Empire as the oil powered structures run down
The activity we are seeing within this century is “the end of the world” as we have known it so remember that “…all the world`s a stage…” and all groups have a role to play in moving the scenery around to fit the whims of the new clique grasping the Chrome Object
“Eventually, the truth will emerge. And when it does, this house of cards, built of deceit, will fall.” – Robert C. Byrd
33 — “Hezbullah is Shia and Hamas is Sunni I believe. Doesn’t their coordianation agaginst Israel speak of cooperation between the two groups and work against the Sunn-Shia reallignment you propose?”
Exactly, which is why Sheikh al-Ali makes a special point of calling upon “the Mujahideen in Palestine to be steady and show determination in jihad and Islam.”
Translation: Stay away from those Shi’a hussies.
The Palestinians, however, have had six decades of waiting for their Sunni Arab brothers to help them — with nothing much to show for it. They can’t afford to be choosy. So while Hamas may be a Salafist organization, it has to put the national struggle ahead of sectarian politics, otherwise it will lose popular support.
Al Qaeda doesn’t have the same problem. They’re crazy and proud of it.
Howdy Billmon,
Good to see you getting out these days.
I think the why of Saudi Arabia sounding like Olmert has to do more with the price of oil than with jihadist politics. Lotta countries making a lotta money past few days and they stand to make a lot more over the next week or so, Iran included. I’m sure SA is tut-tutting all over the place, probably a harrumph here and there, but don’t get between them and their deposit slip, dude.
My wild guess concerning al Qaeda’s opinion of all this is that they have no opinion atm. I believe they are preoccupied with housekeeping issues especially after Al Zarqawi’s death. Sort of an intermission from the spotlight for a few news cycles.
I just want to thank Billmon for all the great posts.
Mary #98:
One thing I don’t understand (and they are many) is why the US does not make the safety of its own citizens and nationals its primary concern in this conflict.
Why break a perfect record? The US left its own citizens to drown in New Orleans and sent them to get IED’d in Iraq. The safety and welfare of US citizens is not a priority.
Don’t know if this thread is still active or not. I was just going to note that ABC news talked about the evacuations, but NEVER mentioned the fact that the evacuees were being charged.
That pernicious liberal media strikes again.
I just wanted to tell Billmon thanks for writing.
I guess I could have made it through this administration this far without some of your posts, but it’s much nicer to have them.
I did a blog on that topic a while ago here. I would guess that some of the things I wrote are a bit over the top. On the other hand, other things may be valid. You judge for yourself. I have updated some of the info. There are still a few things to polish but you get the gist of it as it is.
33 : Koheleth
I have one problem though — Hezbullah is Shia and Hamas is Sunni I believe. Doesn’t their coordianation agaginst Israel speak of cooperation between the two groups and work against the Sunn-Shia reallignment you propose?
Excellent question and a good answer would be very complex. So I’m gonna use a very broad brush and sorry for the gross simplification.
But basically, you need to know that Hamas is not monolithic. There’s a competition for power between the local Hamas and the exiles, in particular those in Syria.
The locals are on the ground and tend to be the most pragmatic of the bunch. They are engaged in the political process, run the social welfare, clinics, schools,TV station, etc. It is them who won the last election. The money is mostly coming from the Gulf. The top leader of Hamas was the very local and late Sheikh Yassin, until he was killed by the IDF in early 2004.
The exiles have a more remote and ideological bent. Well, they don’t do the fighting and they rarely do the dying so realities on the ground are not so important. Google for Khaled Meshaal, the current Hamas leader. He has not lived in Palestine since he was a kid, in the 60s…
And a lot of the money is coming from … Iran.
In the middle, you have the military branch of Hamas, local (obviously) but actually fairly distinct from the local political leadership and mostly influenced by Meshaal. So guess who influences Hamas’ military activities against Israel ?
Does this cast a light on your question ?
117 : Billmon, please ! Hamas is not Salafi. It’s part of Al Ikhwan, the Muslim Brotherhood. Those two movements are harsh competitors, if not outright ennemies.
What constitutes “aiding and abetting” in common law?
Bush grants Israel one more week “to inflict maximum damage on Hizbullah.” Leveling the country would ensure maximum damage on Hizbullah…and all the Lebanese caught in between. Where have I heard this before…? Oh, yes:
Television interview, “60 Minutes”, May 12, 1996:
Lesley Stahl, speaking of US sanctions against Iraq:
“We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And — and you know, is the price worth it?”
Madeleine Albright: “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it.”
Someone please fix Madeleine up with Bolton?
Israel’s bombing everything in site – and besides the resident Lebanese there are 25,000 Americans there, as well over 5,000 Britons. And what do are respective ‘leaders’ do about/to the ‘attackers’?
We can all see what they do — SFA. That’s what they think of we, the people.
We, the people should all be out in the streets — for starters.
CALL IT WHAT IT IS
DUBYA DUBYA III
News resources for what’s happening in Lebanon. There is a web site with messages directly from Lebanese people to the west called From Israel To Lebanon which contains graphic pictures missing in western news coverage.
This original URL seems dead or down right now:
http://www.fromisraeltolebanon.org/
However, this link is still live, but slow, and takes you to the same page as the link above:
http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/
And just in case, there’s a saved copy here:
http://cryptome.org/lebanon-ban.htm
Near real-time updates directly from Lebanon can be read at the forum here:
http://lfpm.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=6