Fitz!

BuckFush. Anna zero?

Fitz me again!

I’m gonna hate myself for asking, but why does Rush think the war is a “gift to the world”? Did he offer a reason?

Christy-
I usually lurk, but after the DR show this am on NPR with Joe Wilson, I have a question you or another of your super crew might answer.

I’ve heard lots of times (from the wingers) about the Senate hearing that said that Joe Wilson was wrong (or lied) in his findings. Just yesterday I heard/read (can’t remember where) that in that hearing, it was just the R Senators that said he was wrong/lied, the D’s didn’t. Can you shed some light on what this committee did/said and any links if you have them?

Thanks for all you guys do!

http://lebanesebloggers.blogspot.com/ comments are the ones ToL is pointing to … they are quite informative and worth reading as the day wears on.

How come no one asks him about the pig?

Good God.

Is that the former chairman of Exxon sitting on that bomb?

What can we say? Elections have consequences. If the Democrats don’t start shouting from the roof tops that this mess is the result of having a joke in the White House, they are weenies!

LOL. Got me, Angie.

Sooo, bankruptcy is the goal here?I wonder how much the Chinese are going to be willing to loan us for our next flying leap into insanity?There IS a breaking point here.Fucking around in the ME is a lose/lose proposition,just ask the British how that all went.

The end times suck.

note that Fisk and some other sources in Lebanon are reporting that the Israelis are telling people to evacuate Lebanese villages (Israel dumps leaflets for this and it was apparently one of those leaflet flights that was shot down last night) and then attacking the car convoys when they do leave … I believe Fisk is reporting 20 Lebanese incinerated in their fleeing cars.

LindaR at 9, we have suffered from electile dysfunction for some time now. If only we had a little blue pill that would take care of it, but we don’t.

Just a little point, but I don’t seem to recall this being a centuries old feud. Lebanon only gained their independence from the French in 1942 and became a refuge for thousands of Palestinians after the 1948 Israel-Arab war.

lhp at 4, the idea seems to be that we can spread democracy to even more countries in the Middle East, since the Iraq thing is working out so well.

Leslie in Ca 13 — yuk yuk yuk. So true!

Paddy at 5 — actually, the people who said that were three Senators in an attachment that they put onto the full committee report: Kit Bond, Pat Roberts and (someone help me out here…Jane would know this off the top of her head…my brain is fried from reading story after story of horrid news today). Anyway, it wasn’t from the full committee, or even from all the Republicans on the Committee — only three Senators that attached a note as an addendum.

Wingers conveniently forget that it was only three people (with an Administration-centric agenda), and put this out as something approved by the whole committee. Which is completely false. I’ll see if I can scrounge up a link on it — but I know Jane has covered this a coupla times at least on the SSCI report. HTH!

Speaking of Soros, Christy, did you see this in WaPo?

A New Alliance Of Democrats Spreads Funding
But Some in Party Bristle At Secrecy and Liberal Tilt

Thank you for your courage to open up discussion of World War 3. The silence the past few weeks has been deafening. What the G8 has proposed so far:

G8 demands end to assaults

You know, and this is not as OT as it might seem, this AM as I was in the car I heard on the radio that the mexican people had TAKEN TO THE STREETS demanding a recount in the election.

Elections do have consequences, and if we expect “the Democrats” to do all the heavy lifting, well who exactly do we mean by that?

Howard Dean? The DNC? The DSCC? The DCCC?

I don’t. I think it is us.

angie at 14, depends on how you look at it. True, the present countries have only existed for a few decades, but the Arab-Israeli conflict goes all the way back to Ishmael and Isaac, several thousand years ago. While many (most) of the people caught in the middle of this conflict just want to get on with their lives and be left in peace, the extremists on both sides are far more likely to view things through that ancient lens.

salon.com’s “War Room” took its name for political/electoral purposes, but then there’s this:

A timetable for Iraq? How does 2016 sound?

According to the Washington Times, U.S. war commanders who gathered for a closed-door conference in Fort Carson, Colo., earlier this year believe that “some level of American forces will be needed in Iraq until 2016.” In the same story, the Times says that the commanders complained that the U.S. news media is ignoring progress in Iraq.

lotus at 18 — no, hadn’t seen that. Very interesting…thanks for the link on this. Need to read it when I can get another cuppa tea. :)

Christy at 17 — This might help about the addendum.

the French intervened in 1868 to protect Christians in Beirut and sorta stayed — after World War One, the French “got Syria” and carved out a separate Lebanon out of Syria. Both countries became independent during the instabilities of World War Two. After the Occupation of Palestine in 1948, many refugees settled just over the border in southern Lebanon.

As folk are finding out: Occupation is a bitch.

Paddy at 5: It was a comment in the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence by a minority of the Republican senators. (Orrin Hatch was the third.) Emptywheel at The Next Hurrah has revisited this recently in the context of Novak’s recent questionable statements on the subject.

The actual report annex itself, entitled “Additional Views
of Chairman Pat Roberts joined by Senator Christopher S. Bond, Senator Orrin G. Hatch”, is available here.

Leslie in CA

I clicked through the link Redd provided and then a further click through from there. It’s even worse than that.

Evidently, Rush now agrees with Osama that this is an end of days kind of battle between Crusaders and Muslims and one side or the other will be crushed.

He wants to crush the muslims. He thinks he is a freakin crusader.

Who buys INTO the delusions of a nutjob like Osama? Oh wait, …. nevermind. (snark)

the crossfire of a centuries-old fued

Is it really centuries old? I didn’t think there was anything there to fight over prior to the founding of Israel. In fact, I thought Muslim extremism was pretty quiet in the Ottoman Empire. It wasn’t until Europeans moved in after WWI and started running things to get their hands on Middle-Eastern oil that Muslims started getting pissed off. Essentially it is a reaction to 20th century imperialism and colonialism. The Sunni-Shia thing goes back to the Prophet’s death, but that’s not the problem among the Lebanon, Israel, and the Palestinians.

When you get that fresh cuppa, Christy, note that they’re funding CREW but NOT the DLC. *g*

It was exactly 5 years ago today that I stood on the break wall in Beirut, soaking in the sun and humidity (very humid!). I ate lunch in Tripoli, strolled through ruins and ancient churches, marveled at the repurposing of materials over thousands of years.

I remember admiring the Lebanese spirit. By 2001, the city was still showing scars of the previous civil war but much had been rebuilt and repaired. Beirut seemed to me a jewel, pock-marked but still sparkling, a truly cosmopolitan city.

This is so heartbreaking I can’t bear watching the news or reading blogs, as much as I love FDL. Thanks to whoever supplied links to the Lebanese blogs – when I muster up the strength, I’ll check them out.

I spoke to my brother this weekend. I told him we’d be at war with Iran/Syria by October. He said, “oh shit, not again”. I asked what did he mean by that. He said, “after Bush’s speech on the evening of 9-11, you said we’d be at war with Iraq in two years. I thought you were crazy.”

Slinking back to a blissfully ignorant state now…. hugs to all.

LindaR –

The Democrats don’t have the strength to reach the rooftops — because they’ve stuffed themselves with NARAL cocktail weenies.

Orrin Hatch! Whew, thanks Redshift. That was driving me crazy! And thanks Leslie for the Wilson link — that’s exactly the sort of thing I was looking for…now I can go make my tea. :)

Oh, and Chris Matthews just said the President was acting like a frat boy, that him talking with his mouth full was the real Bushie — on MSNBC a few minutes ago. Anyone want to bet that Tim Russert’s going to get another one of those “rein Tweety in” phone calls from the WH today?

Leslie: as a good lil kid in Sunday School, I learned how the Israelites smote the Philistines (Goliath and all that). I always wondered what sort of weird pagan stuff those Philistines were. It was only a few years ago I discovered that the Arabic word for inhabitants of Palestine was “Filistin” — those conquered Philistines were still around and were reconquered in 1948.

Something’s not right there …

Christy:

(About previous thread)

I’m a landscape designer if you need help with your English garden.

It can never be good when a man who thinks the end times is a good thing is in charge.

Hugs back, Hilde.

Updated above:

Oh heavens, now MSNBC is reporting (at 2:17 pm ET) that there has been fierce fighting in the southern portion of Afghanistan, that the Taliban has gotten control of two more southern districts and that at least one coalition soldier has been killed, with updates to come. Great. Just great.

Speaking of Afghanistan, I can’t find the article now, but I read something yesterday about Karzai reinstating religious courts to enforce Shari’a laws? anybody else see that?

CHS & LHP-
So they just prettied it up and put a ribbon on it, but it’s still complete bullshit inside?
So why doesn’t anyone call them on it?
I’ve read emptywheel & JH’s stuff, and for some reason this part just rolled past me.
(in my defence, I usually have a horrid headache after reading any sort of legal stuff- but you guys usually seem to simplify it enuf for me.)
Time to check out that link.

Israel has about 200 nuclear weapons — everybody knows this — if Israel were mortally threatened, it would have to use them — everybody knows this.

shargash @ 29– your point is excellent– the west’s imperialism and colonialism is the root cause of this misery.

I sometimes cringe when people say oh, they’ve been fighting each other forever, throw up their hands and shake their head in disgust as if “those people” can’t be trusted or expected to solve their problems. You know, act “civilized” like we do in this very young and perfect (cough) democracy! We have been instrumental in creating a large part of the problem.

Yer right, *ilson @ 35, something is definately not right there and occupation is indeed a bitch.

*sob* for Afghanistan.

The Israelites/Hebrews/IDF have been fighting the Canaanites/Philistines/Palestinians over this god forsaken piece of real estate ever since Cain killed Abel.

Christy at 33, I can’t take credit for the link, alas – I think you mean Redshift?

lhp at 28, I rather doubt that Rush actually buys into the end-times stuff, but he knows a bunch of his listeners do. And he knows it’ll feed into all the still-simmering post-911 resentment and desire to just “kill ‘em all and let God sort ‘em out” mentality.

lotus at 30, I must confess I took great pleasure in reading the DLC’s gnashing of teeth in that article. *g*

*ilson at 35, yeah; this stuff really has been replaying itself for a long time. And this is, as we know, a culture with a very long memory for grievances.

Media 101, compare and contrast:

cnn.com has plastered its front page with the Bush gaffe

msnbc.com? *crickets*

wonder who got the footage and who didn’t.

This ThinkProgress thread, which I mentioned in a prior FDL thread, seems quite appropriate for this thread: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/…..-east-war/

Neocons Resurrect Plans For Regional War In The Middle East

In 1996, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith and David Wurmser (all later senior officials in the Bush administration) had a plan for how to destroy Hezbollah: Invade Iraq. They wrote a report to the newly elected Likud government in Israel calling for “a clean break” with the policies of negotiating with the Palestinians and trading land for peace.

The problem could be solved “if Israel seized the strategic initiative along it northern borders by engaging Hizballah (sic), Syria, and Iran, as the principal agents of aggression in Lebanon.” The key, they said, was to “focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.” They called for “reestablishing the principle of preemption.” They promised that the successes of these wars could be used to launch campaigns against Iran, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, reshaping “the strategic balance in the Middle East profoundly.”

Now, with the U.S. bogged down in Iraq, with Bush losing control of world events, and with the threats to national security growing worse, no one could possibly still believe this plan, could they? Think again.

(snip)

Some information about Joseph Cirincione, who wrote the comments from which I quoted: http://www.americanprogress.or…..;b=1631113

punaise at 44 — actually MSNBC has been playing the footage all morning, and playing it up. Odd that they haven’t gotten it on their front page if CNN has…

punaise says:
July 17th, 2006 at 11:32 am

What’s *crickets*, please? (I may need to update my FDL glossary.)

*crickets* = Dead silence.

angie at 42, not sure if you’re referring to me or not, but I didn’t mean my references to the longevity of the conflicts to efface the west’s recent role(s) there. Just saying that things were bad long before we made them worse.

From the Beeb:

‘Suicide bomb’ in Helmand capital

Soldier killed in Afghan clash

Jane,

If you need a real YouTube “pick me up” how about The Clash. As appropriate today as it was when the video was first produced.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..arch=clash casbah

punaise –

I think the footage was widely broadcast in Europe, so MS-GOP has no excuse — although Eric Alterman is still a treasure:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3449870/

there are two obvious points that need to be pointed out in the din, though I don’t profess to be original here:

1. Look how irrelevant Bush has made us. By backing Israel to the hilt and creating virtually nothing but hatred in the Arab world, we have as much ability to influence events in this conflict as say, Singapore, stupid swaggering aside.

2. Thanks again, Ralph. Bush’s invasion of Iraq has given Iran free reign to act as a chaos-causing, peace-threatening Great Power in a way it never had before. Whatever role they are playing in encouraging the violence, the geopolitical loss of Iraq as a counter-balance has made it worse. This is just one more reason the American invasion is the worst mistake I think any American president has ever made.

Shargash is quite right – the issue is western powers occupation not some “oh they’ve been fighting forever” … *we* have created this disaster and now we will see if we can make it worse.

prayers for afghanistan … where our friend Du serves with “coalition” forces

why can’t the Moslems and Jews settle their differences like good Christians? http://jameswolcott.com/archiv…..y_issu.php

Leslie

You are right. Rush is just playing a character, like Colbert, only not funny. The other night Donny Deuscht (is that his name? I don’t what his show) said that Anne Coulter is just playing a character.

I think the only time Rush is actually trying call em as he sees em, is when he is covering a football game.

The rest is all theatre

LHP 27

I think I’m glad to hear Limbaugh making this an apocolypse thing.

That should take care of the remaining standard issue angry white males who’ve listened to him for 15 years.

Most of these guys only go to church when their wife drags them there, and they are going to see Limbo as the nutcase he is – - or plays to.

The US has to go from watching what’s happening in Lebanon to actually being involved in the fighting. What is going to happen that will get Bush to involve us in this fight? An attack on the inocent Americans who aren’t getting out until Tuesday?

Stephan,sorry, I should have expounded a little more. *crickets chirping*

Lotus #18 -
From your link.

But Democracy Alliance’s decisions not to back some prominent groups have stirred resentment. Among the groups that did not receive backing in early rounds were such well-known centrist groups as the Democratic Leadership Council and the Truman National Security Project.

Ok. I take back everything nasty I’ve said about Soros.

Leslie in CA says
July 17th, 2006 at 11:36 am

not at all! I was speaking of the pundits and others serving this up endlessly.

Has Bush ever completed *anything* in his entire life? He didn’t finish the job in Afghanistan because he was in such a rush to get into Iraq. I’m sure he’d love to wale away at Syria and Iraq (with other people’s lives), but where’s that going to leave the situation in Iraq? Are we going to have to tolerate his incompetence forever? Will we have an election in ‘08? Or will it be cancelled because of WWIII?

Paddy,

Yeah its all male cow fertilizer. And folks did call them on it. Certainly there was discussion of it here at the time.

Itt’s just a squoosh to inside baseball for the MSM which is catering to an audience that does not make the investment to keep informed to the level necessary to follow such minutae

lotus – thanks for the link on the Democracy Alliance.

Any group of big spenders that can pick CREW over DLC to fund – here’s big smoochies for all of them!

I liked the fact that “political activists” were concerned that “centrists” would lose funding. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Word gaming much lately?

Re Afghanistan, check out

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5189316.stm

and

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5186230.stm

Sorry, at 61 I meant wale away at Syria and *Iran*.

Iraq was probably the only country in the Middle East that wasn’t involved in 9/11 — which of course, makes them the perfect target for retaliation.

Did we go through the looking glass all at once, or was it a gradual process?

Stephen Parrish @ 45– now at last I can retire my tinfoil hat! Thanks for that, I have a lot of respect for Joseph Cirincione.

Redd said,

“Heartbreaking stuff, and all the more so because the families who are caught, once again, in the crossfire of a centuries-old feud are forced with a decision to hunker down or flee, hope or despair, and all the while pray for the safety of their children.’

A couple of people jumped on Redd over this one already in the comments above. But some further clarity needs to come out of this:

The meme that this is ancient emnity is a combination of propaganda, racist blather and guilt. If we look back just sixty-three years to 1943, we can find that 100,000 Jews lived peacefully and prosperously in Baghdad, 50,000 Jews lived peacefully and prosperously in Tehran, while the hundreds of thousands, and by 1944 – millions – of Jews living in France, Belgium, Norway, Italy, Poland, Rumania, Greece, Yugoslavia and the western USSR were being liquidated by a military economic machine with the full knowledge of every Christian denomination in occupied Europe.

And with the full knowledge of the leaders in the US, UK and USSR.

Throughout almost two millenia of European history, the main persecutors of Jews were ALL the Christian churches. They had no rights in almost all the 13 colonies at the time of independance. Ned Lamont’s state only emancipted Jews in 1808. Meanwhile, the largest urban concentrations of relatively freed Jews were all in Islamic cities up to the end of the 19th century..

Our military is going to be destroyed in Iraq, caught in the wider conflict (if it spreads). How does the radical Bush government think they’ll fight this wide war without instituting the draft? We certainly have no allies left in the world who are willing to join us on our misadventures.

I used to compare the collapsing American Empire to the end of the British Empire. But at the rate things are going and how badly our economy and infrastructure are being hollowed out, I’ve begun thinking our fate will be more like the Netherlands or Spain. Both countries had enormous empires but today are no longer major influences in the world.

Little dog

Cute puppy story for you. The new momma dog is accustomed to sleeping with my not yet ex-husband. I don’t mean anything creepy by that.

Anyway, he has in a puppy box down in the basement in a room that doesn’t have an A/C vent and therefor will not put a draft on them until they are old enough to regulate their own bbody temps.

Well, she cries if she is left alone down there w/no humans to play with.

This Am just before dawn, my husband wakes up to find the new mama climbing into the bed with one of the puppies in her mouth.

He figures she was going to settle the one puppy on th elillow and go back for the other, so they could all sleep together in his bed.

Bustednuckles says:
July 17th, 2006 at 11:36 am (and 11:39 am)

Thank you for your reply.

Perfect film still.

I’m both amused and frightened.

Pun 47

I have a crickets audio file, but have no idea how to link to it or send it.

Anybody?

awww, lhp, just awwwww. ;)

Raw Story;

Pelosi: Honor Cunningham, DeLay and I’m out… Developing…

???????Color me baffled.

lhp at 56,

Not sure about Coulter. I remember one time she was on O’Reilly’s show (another guy playing a character, btw), and since it was her, he was actually trying to have a conversation instead of just attacking. He acknowledged some reality, and she argued with him vehemently about it. And it was something that reasonable people really couldn’t disagree about, in a fact-based kind of way. Can’t remember the details now, dammit, but she sounded like a true believer. Even O’Reilly was taken aback.

‘Very witty sire, very witty …Did you enjoy your adventure ride?’

;>)

al-Jeez:

Israel spurns UN call for monitors

about Pelosi: the GOP was planning a big celebration for “former members of Congress” to include Duke Cunningham (Fedrl Prisoner ID# 76-444-21) and Tom Delay (Indictee No. 1, 2 & 3) — Nancy said : FUCK NO! (or words to that effect)

Link to emptywheel’s comments about the conflict in the Middle East: http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c……html#more

lhp -

That is so so sweet.

OT observation (IAMAE*): One interesting aspect of the Soros interview by Terry Gross last week was his his explantation of how he reconciles philanthropy and support for progressive causes with the capitalistic zeal with which he made/makes piles of money. He’s also been taken to task by some for profiting from the fall of the British pound, for instance (currency short-selling?).

Essentially he said that investing in markets and companies is an “amoral” affair – as one player he cannot be an agent for change, and if he doesn’t invest in Acme Corp. somebody else will in his stead. There was more to it than that, but the impression I got was of a partial disconnect between these two sides of one person.

(*I am not an economist)

err, IANAE

Li’l diversion for yez:

Reed Blames Tribes for Laundering Scheme

Thanks *ilson.
Btw, nice touch with the I.D. number.

Leslie in CA

Did Isaac and Ishmael even exist? Much of the feud dates back no further than to the First World War when a desperate Britain made contradictory promises to both Arabs and Jews about the future status of Palestine and their place in it. Casting this conflict in biblical terms plays into the Israeli claim that they have as descendants either spiritually or physically of the previous inhabitants of Palestine a greater right to it than its current occupants. This has always seemed a bizarre claim to make. The Irish and the Basques under it could lay a preeminent right to most of Europe. Think how it must look to an Arab.

Another aspect of all this that bothers me is the inherent racism of defining a state as being either Jewish or Moslem. How would many in our country feel if, in addition to proclaiming that the national language of the US was English, we also declared that it was white and Christian?

I am a big believer in demographics and what the demographics tell me is that the likelihood that there will be an Israel as a predominately Jewish state a hundred years from now is zero. This does not mean that Jews will be pushed into the sea. It means that liek many other groups in the area they will be a minority regionally and in Israel however Israel or Palestine is defined.

This could happen much faster on a time scale of 20 to 50 years if Israel is unable or unwilling to come up with a stable two state solution. BTW Sharon’s plan of a one and a half state solution, Israel plus a nonviable Arab bantustan, fails because it will not produce two stable entities. Why is this inevitable? Well as we have seen on our own southern border. Borders, laws, and fences are largely irrelevant to demographic processes. What Israelis might want to start looking at is what kind of state they want to live in in the future, one for example where the rights of minorities are respected, and how to construct such a state.

Loosehead 70

Awww . . . that is really sweet.

So what did STBEx do, move a pallet down to the basement or bring ‘em all upstairs? (I’ve done both, except we don’t have basements in Texas.)

Dizzy has gone into full Crack-whore Mode. If the little critters weren’t so huge (ginormous?) I’d think they were terribly neglected.

Tried out their lapping skills last night – - put a dollop of plain yogurt on the carton lid and let ‘em at it.

Yep. They can lap, so it’s OK by me if mama wants to act like a crack whore. :)

LOL, I was going to link to that lotus but I was busy cleaning up Mt. Dew from the spew.

Jim 38 – I think under the Afghan consitution we helped with, Sharia Courts have always been able to exercise authority.

A more recent development, though, is that Karzai has agreed to reinstate the Department of Vice and Virtue (or ministry of same ?) to tie governmental enforcement more tightly to the religious laws of being a good Muslim. I feel for Karzai – but we’ve basically spent a lot of time, effort, money and lives for nada there – plus the poppy crop has been a bumper, secret and confidential info has been sold at markets, the Taliban has regained footholds, etc.

shouldabeens couldabeens

Do you have this soon-to-be-ex-husbing trained to wash his own sheets, lhp? (Since Baby Mittens and Bridget aren’t house-trained yet? or is their momma handling those duties?)

and your little dog too:

I have a crickets audio file, but have no idea how to link to it or send it.

Anybody?

Ferris?

perhaps you could post it on your blog and link to it, or upload it to photobucket or flickr (photo sharing sites – do those work for other file types?)

lhp: my Mommydog usually slept with me — she had her pups starting in my lap (sweet but messy) — she then nurtured them in a big basket — one night she decided they were big doggies and started bringing all six of them in to sleep with me — oh no, she didnt! — after a couple of nights, I had to put her and pitbabies into a large cage.

I dont mind having a pitbull or two sleeping with me but I had to draw the line at a bunch of fragile pups!

Scarier and scarier. A cruise ship, by god, more Catrina irresponsibility for the profit of the ingroup, while people die. On Arab-Israeli fight since the beginning of time, spare me. One could say the same about Jewish-Christian, Catholic-Protestant, Buddhist-Hindu, Irish-English, Igbo-Yoruba. Peoples (and states) have to act responsibly. Both sides have continued calling the other heinous names and have coupled it with heinous acts. But the over the top Israel response against another sovereign nations (Lebanon) -like the U.S. against Iraq needs to be taken off the table. What we (the U.S.) should do, is either stay out of the fight (and not support the mutual destruction economically or militarily) or support someone else who can negotiate a drive toward peace.

cathy says:
July 17th, 2006 at 11:39 am
The US has to go from watching what’s happening in Lebanon to actually being involved in the fighting. What is going to happen that will get Bush to involve us in this fight? An attack on the inocent Americans who aren’t getting out until Tuesday?
————————————————————
Bush doesn’t want to attack Lebanon. He wants Syria and/or Iran. He could manufacture an excuse today, but at this rate, if he just waits a week, one or both of them will be involved in this conflict. So all he needs to do right now is kick back and chomp on some hog.

Mimikatz’s most recent thread on The Next Hurrah: http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c……html#more

(snip)

One of the things that is clear about Cheney is that he is deeply pessimistic, concerned about American power, and, in common parlance, a control freak. He also has disasterous judgment. In addition, he is convinced that only he sees the world for what it is, unflinchingly, and thus only he has the ability to make the hard decisions necessary to ensure our survival. He and Rumsfeld both share a preference for strong executive power as unfettered as possible, and they played to Bush’s self-image to assert that control.

The tendency to focus on certain threats and ignore those which do not as easily advance the desire for centralized control to meet external enemies is apparent in the execution of the Cheney doctine. The refusal to adjust on the basis of new information is also apparent, one of the hallmarks of the authoritarian personality, the subject of John Dean’s new book and this post. For example, it is increasingly clear in the book that torture does not produce reliable intelligence, quite the contrary, but that traditional methods of cajolement and induced familarity do. Yet there is no effort to replace one with the other. Rather, Cheney and his ilk come to believe that torture will soften up prisoners for more traditional questioning. The more control slips away, the more desperate such a person becomes to reassert control.

It is apparent throughout that Tenet and/or his deputies were primary contributors to the book, which ends after the 2004 election, when they have been replaced by Porter Goss and the Gosslings, and intelligence networks and personal relationships Tenet fostered are completely breaking down. Their stories would fill a second post.

It seems apparent that today there is a struggle for control of Bush and foreign policy, with Cheney on one side (with the diminishing Rumsfeld) and Rice on the other. Iran is clearly the arena for this struggle. (A view Emptywheel has also articulated here.) There is talk of sending Condi to the Middle East, the kind of role Cheney is obviously ill-suited for in many, many respects. Still, one should never count Cheney out, as he (along with Rumsfeld), is one of the most ruthless and accomplished in-fighters of the past 40 years.

we can all look forward to what’s bound to be a delightful TRex post re Ralphie Reed tonight.

Pun 91

I tried photobucket, but they rejected it.

OK, here’s one: (Dogpile is my friend)

http://www.naturesongs.com/cricket1.wav

Cruise ship would make a pretty easy target, wouldn’t it?

Jiminy Cricket!

I’m beginning to feel this this may truly get worse with Slim Pickens in the White House. Could it be they are just looking for the right pretext (real or orchestrated) to hit Iran?
Please tell me I’m wrong andv that sanity will prevail. Please, tell me.

its just a small Cruise Ship with a capacity of only 750 passengers — slow but not a very large target

T– maybe they could decorate the ship with big pictures of Goofy, Mickey, Minnie and Donald Duck since they’re in charge of our guvmint anyway.

Those warmongering ‘wingnuts’ aren’t just republican, the neo-cons warmongers have been hedging their bets.

A few choice snippings

From
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=9314
Will We Go to War for Israel?

He has good reason to smile. Aside from his fondness for the concept of annihilation, he knows that the War Party’s “liberal” Democratic wing is falling into line. The Israeli invasion of Lebanon – which many predict will include the de facto annexation of a southern “buffer zone” – has the fulsome support of both parties. When the Israelis tell the Americans to jump, the only question Biden and the Democratic party leadership have is: How high?

Neocons in the Democratic Party
http://tinyurl.com/m3doo

DON’T LOOK now, but neoconservatism is making a comeback — and not among the Republicans who have made it famous but in the Democratic Party.

A host of pundits and young national security experts associated with the party are calling for a return to the Cold War precepts of President Truman to wage a war against terror that New Republic Editor Peter Beinart, in the title of his provocative new book, calls “The Good Fight.”

for amazing cricket sounds: a forest full of cicadae in Provence in the summer. The land just throbs with the sound, which reinforces the oppressive heat.

The SS Halliburton is invincible. There are no icebergs in the eastern Mediterranean.

I hope that the cruise ship isn’t attacked by “Iran” or “Syria”.

lhp – what a sweet story, and more proof of how much our doggies bond with us humans. It’s no wonder we are so devastated to lose them. My kids laugh at the way I talk to ours – “do you think she’s going to talk back to you, Mom?” My answer? Well, you never know, do you?

When our labs had pups, we would find ouselves just hanging over their box for hours – best entertainment in the world. Really soothing in troubling times, too.

Enjoy… :-)

punaise says
July 17th, 2006 at 12:09 pm
The SS Halliburton is invincible. Thee are no icebergs in the eastern Mediterranean.
————————————————————
Are you sure that’s the name? I thought it was going to be the Lusitania.

punaise: the Greek-French composer Iannis Xenakis also heard those cicadae and used that concept mathematically and musically in his early work: Pithoprakta

http://news.independent.co.uk/…..181612.ece
My Dad called this (Karzai’s kowtowing to the mullahs) a week ago based on the descending hemline of his kameez.

I think speculation about the vulnerability of evacuation options is not helpful.

Punaise 104

Same out here in the blacklands.

Friends ask if we like the peace and quiet.

Lessee: Miniature Donkey rescue next door, cows in the pasture out front, coyotes and owls at night, crows, cicadas, tree frogs, crickets and our own crew of nine Golden Retrievers.

Peaceful, maybe, but not so quiet.

the Gustloff was also a passenger ship…

Hugh at 88 – It is my understanding that Muslim Arabs consider Abraham, via Ishmael, to be their ancestor. Whether he was an actual person is irrelevant to that belief.

I am not disagreeing with all the modern sources of the present conflict; I am saying things are not that simple.

Ed*ward Teller at 70 – agreed that Arabs and Jews can and frequently have co-existed peacefully. The old grievances, and yes, they do exist, are centered around the place – that particular chunk of real estate in the ME – more than the people.

The creation of the modern state of Israel was in part a guilty response to the Holocaust and U.S. inaction while it was going on, and was also partly driven by the end-times apocalyptic thinking that had already spread through a large part of U.S. Christianity. Regardless of the reasons, it was indeed foolish to think that the land’s modern inhabitants were not going to disagree with their displacement.

The idiocy of having Americans pay being pulled out just bites.

How many pipeline companies are paying for our soldiers to protect their &*^$(^@# oilfield investments? HOw much pressure has there been for Americans to keep and maintain a presence in the ME to show how well everything is going?

The fact that all the $^*(@!*%$ G8, including Bush, couldn’t even push for a cease fire while they get their own nationals out is pathetic.

Not that I have an opinion.

Re: the tug of war btwn Rice and Cheney – that’s a loser either way. Rice hasn’t made the least effort to understand the area, the players, the non-state players, etc. and she’s just less grumpy old man, not more productive.

And btw – I finally got an email from Bayh about his Hayden vote. Which I felt far better about until I got the email. He really wanted to make sure that voting against Hayden for CIA chief wouldn’t be construed as anything that might diminish what a wonderful patriot the man who lied to Congress, including under oath, and suborned a half a decade’s worth of felony violations of FISA as well as circumventing the 4th amendment really is.

After all, he has a uniform that apparently comes with no code of conduct or oath of office these days and must be a brave guy to put NSA employees on the line for 5 years without even making a piddly ass attempt to clean up the illegality of the actions he was requiring them to take, on the front lines, while he sat back remembering to forget the fourth amendment has a second half and that there are CRIMINAL provisions for FISA violations

The cruise ship story gets worse. Apparently Americans will have to pay to be evacuated, and nobody can bring any of their gear with them. Contrast this with how Reagan used rescuing a dozen or so Americans as a pretext to invade Granada.

*ilson 109 – I’ll be darned. I chirp plan to look into that.

Nothing like the sound of wild peacocks all night long to keep you rockin’ and rollin’. :)

Thanks moderator

scarecrow says

“I think speculation about the vulnerability of evacuation options is not helpful.”

And what about ineptness and lack of planning? If our government had any smarts, it would call for publicly and pressure Israel into a 48 hour cessation of hostilities to allow for the evacuation of foreign nationals and then use that time to press for a full fledged ceasefire.

You’re welcome, Mary — you’d missed one closure. *g*

lhp – lovely story. When our dog had puppies in Africa, our monkey served as second Mom. After weening when we gave the first puppy to a new owner, whenever someone else came to the house with an eye toward the pups, the monkey would take them up into the nearby tree for safe keeping – one in the mouth, the other in her arm.

US student by phone on MSNBC asking why US govt being so bad at evacuation … noted that the Saudis took all their students out yesterday.

“My Dad called this (Karzai’s kowtowing to the mullahs) a week ago based on the descending hemline of his kameez.”

bwahahahaha! Oh my.

What a tragedy– thanks for the link, Dru. ;(

Mary 119

Shoot, I figured that was your opinion about the whole Bayh letter.

lhp, love your puppy story.

Richmond at 124, very sweet, and lol – did you ever manage to find them homes, or did they stay with you?

Hugh – I read, I think it was on Stratfor but I’m not sure, that Israel has assured the major powers of cooperation with evacuations (unlike their blowing Lebanese evacuees up).

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/mideast_conflict

JERUSALEM – Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Monday the fighting in Lebanon would end when the two Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah guerrillas were freed, rocket attacks on Israel were stopped, and the Lebanese army was deployed along the border.

[snip]

Not too much to ask for, huh?

For what it’s worth, here’s a link to the printed version of Time’s cover story about the Middle East conflict: http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..51,00.html

Leslie in Ca

Arabs look to Ishmael too. My point is that if you (and no, I don’t mean you personally) invoke biblical myths as part of an approach to modern contemporary conflicts, you’ve already lost.

Leslie, We did – by tieing the monkey to the tree, and taking the pups with us to the new owner in the car.

open up all the shoe stores in the bazaars! Condi’s on her way to the Middle East !

I suggested to the STBEx that he put an old towel in a big shoebox and bring the pups upstairs at least during the day. He works from a home office and the rest of the herd of dogs hangs out in the office or on hte deck outside the office all day.

This way momma dog would have her normal daytime routine back and might not be so lonely that she goes wandering.

I also suggested that he take a sleeping bag downstairs for a couple nights or bring the shoebox and a dogbed into his bedroom.

The puppies are only a few days old and easy to crush, so I am afraid that if momma dog succeeds one night in sneaking them into bed, bad things could happen

Shoe shopping is hard work!

I keep coming back to the transcript from ToL of the Bush/Blair confab and trying to identify the characters referred to as simply they and he and trade thingy
…who is he? Putin?
Is they, France and Russia?
What’s the trade? prisoner exchange? oil? geo-political commerce?
It appears this conversation:

Bush: It’s a process, I agree. I told her [Rice] your offer to…

Blair: Well…it’s only if I mean… you know. If she’s got a…, or if she needs the ground prepared as it were… Because obviously if she goes out, she’s got to succeed, if it were, whereas I can go out and just talk is reflected in the interventionist peace initiated proposed by Blair recently here .

It will be interesting to see what Merkel announcement will be regarding trade…
regardless of the outcome I am left with the overall impression that these G8 clowns are simply jaded representatives of a constituency that will never include the common good.

Anyone care to read the tea leaves on this one?

“My Dad called this (Karzai’s kowtowing to the mullahs) a week ago based on the descending hemline of his kameez.”

a “kameez cause he” attack?

siun,

Cooperation is a way of saying they will try not to hit Americans while evacuating. My point is that a humanitarian cessation of hostilities could lead to a ceasefire, something that the Israelis do not want but which they could be forced into if this was handled right.

The situation that you cite of targeting and blowing up evacuees, siun, gave me chills to the bone and it’s very hot today.

I think there may be some LAWS that prohibit that.

*ilson, Condi’s a day late, but no dollars short.

Villepin is there right now!

Hugh at 132 – I was referring to Arabs; not sure what your first line means, unless you meant to say Jews?

I agree that diplomatic leaders should not be invoking biblical frames of reference. But if the parties to the conflict are invoking them, it’s better to be aware of them than not.

Richmond at 133, poor mama monkey. Did she forgive you?

mk ultramaroon,

I was wondering if the reference to trade had to do with the failure to OK Russia for WTO because of problems over importation of agricultural products.

We are using a cruise ship to get Americans out. Hmm. We have many ships in that area, the fact that none are available to evacuate civilians from a war zone makes me nervous.

Sure hope the grownups are in charge.

Actually, Rice going there is the best news I’ve heard. The Israelis have seriously burnt her and her recent efforts. If she’s more pissed at anyone right now than she is at John Bolton, it would be Israeli PM Olmert.

Richmond

You monkey had the same sort of reaction that my daughter does.

The thing I hate about the litters (aside from the wear and tear on the house. STBEx is NOT a good doggie supervisor) is how my peanut gets her heart broken when they leave.

To her, each one is “her” puppy

egregious: most of the US warships are on the other side of the Suez Canal, if ya know what I mean …

I’m such a bad typist anyway and ADD, I should never try that “I’ll just post this real quick” while I’m steamed and on the phone.

Bless you Christy.

lhp (or anyone who has the answer?)
there is a thing called a “Grand Jury Report” that the GJ votes on just like they vote on an indictment.

?? They wouldn’t do that for facts about someone they aren’t indicting, would they? I haven’t dealt with the process, but I would be very upset to have a report come out from a GJ that didn’t indict me. It doesn’t really seem right, deep down (even though I would be very happy to see a lengthy diatribe with no end of nasty revelations) ?

I don’t understand the process of crm GJs at all, but I’m not really sure how much could come out in a report. Be nice though.

I still think Congress needed to establish an Independent Counsel and revive stats if needed and we wouldn’t have had this unnecessarily narrow mandate with no back up for the prosecutor/investigation staff. For now, I’m sticking with my assessment that the “keep it in house” procedure was part of the deal with Ashcroft for recusal.

Hugh at 86:
I am a big believer in demographics and what the demographics tell me is that the likelihood that there will be an Israel as a predominately Jewish state a hundred years from now is zero.

Some years back, I recall reading an op-ed by some former high Israeli official, who, reflecting on demographic trends, declared that Israel would soon face a choice of giving up Zionism (that is, “greater Israel”), or giving up democracy. That is, if they retained captured territory, Jews would soon be a minority. I think a considerable part of what the Israeli approach to the conflict in recent years has been driven by this reality, though it remains largely unspoken.

Is it just a rumor that Joseph Hazelwood is skippering the cruise ship and that Brownie is coordinating the gathering of the 25,000 Americans in the Beirutdome?

Correction: in my 12:22 post, I should have said “For what it’s worth, here’s a link to the printed printer-friendly version of Time’s cover story about the Middle East conflict…”

new thread — daily Ned !

CNN anchorthing: we are talking about people stranded in Lebanon, how about folks being stranded in Far Rockaway Queens, Kyra? it is really hot.

fewls.

Sorry, Leslie in CA,

I misread your last comment about Ishmael and ended up repeating it. Religion is by all means a complicating factor. While the values that religions espouse should be part of the solution, they are in practice an unassailable authority sanctioning the continuance of conflicts.

Off Topic;

Since Mary’s striking thru Fourht Amendment and such;
(I added the bit about the Fourth PRIOR to your suggestion…) ;->
Version 2.0
——To The Republican:

I am responding to your editorial published Sunday, July 17, blessing Sen. Arlen Specter’s (R-PA) legislation addressing the NSA domestic spying issue.

That editorial is wrong in a number of ways. The most important way is the first sentence. That clever line: “Tell it to the judge.” The question is really about which judge, and under what rules?

Sen. Specter’s bill might send the matter to the FISA court, but allows the President to ‘decide’ NOT to. It is purely voluntary, and it has no provision for Supreme Court review. The Senator’s fellow Judiciary Committee member, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY) has an alternative bill which brings the matter directly under Supreme Court scrutiny.

Very little about the FISA court and it’s workings is ever made public. Yet the Bush administration has avoided using even that legal cover to spy on us. For at least 5 years.

Further, Sen. Specter’s bill would also remove all pending challenges from normal legal channels, effectively legalizing all spying done so far. Far from forcing the issue ‘to the judge’ it is yet another example of the’ Rubber Stamp Republican Congress’ at work.

When an issue of such Constitutional import comes up virtually rewriting the Fourth Amendment, I’d like to see all the reasons. Supreme Court decisions are made public, and in writing. The FISA Court’s rulings are never made public.

There is a choice between the legal ‘Black Hole’ where Sen. Specter would send NSA spying, or a public Supreme Court ruling via Sen. Schumer’s proposal. Which would YOU rather have?

Signed,
BK
—-
Comments, corrections, other?

I really wanna get this in the paper asap. (btw long story re: republican…) Barring objection…(guidelines only indicate ‘brief’ – no word count…)I’m gonna hit ‘Send’.
Unless there’s reason not to. Thanks

ultramaroon 135 – and who is the sweet like honey guy? As confabs go – it has a lot in common with a couple of teenage girls dishin.

Another aspect of Israeli political organization that we don’t talk about much is this: Israel is a theocracy, even if a democratic one. It also has many racist public policies. For instance, we all know that Israeli Palestinians (Palestinians who are citizens of Israel) are discriminated against for jobs, housing — everything pretty much. But it isn’t widely discussed that Sephardic Jews are also discriminated against in favor of Ashkenizi Jews.

Because of the holocaust, we’ve grown up with romantic notions of the “Jewish Homeland” and its restoration after WWII and how grand that was. When I see the movie Exodus today it is with different eyes than when it first came out!

I am not saying I want Israel to not exist as a nation. I am saying the fact that it does exist and was superimposed by force on a people already living on that land is a recipe for problems.

So, let me get this straight. They are sending ONE cruise ship? With a capacity of 750? To pull out 22,000 people? Who in the fuck is in charge of this little deal? Heckofajob Brownie?These people could fuck up a wet dream!And they get to PAY for it?Could we please have a real government back? Please?Mind boggling incompetence.

Hugh @ 140,

You may be right, can’t wait for the other shoe to drop…the conversation was a fascinating insight. It left me with the overall impression that the circumstances in the ME were being played for business by somebody, if not everybody…less a grand chessboard and more like a sleazy poker game.

Did anyone else see that report yesterday (I think on CNN…) where 9 Canadians had been killed in Lebannon? I’m wondering what the Canadian reaction was going to be on that.

I may have missed something, since I am at work today.

Mary @ 153,

If honey guy is Putin, I would expect Bush and Blair are preparing their tummies for kisses as we speak…

Mery
You diligent woman you, went back for my EPU’d commnents!

Best example I can give you of a recent Grand Jury Report was done by Suffolk County DA Thomas Spota after his investigation into allegations concerning priest pedophiles.

Spota did a very thorough investigation and concluded that he could not bring charges because of the statute of limitations. So he wrote (as agent and counselor to theh GJ) and report and they voted on it. In fact, the way I heard the story, they had him make some changes to make it even stronger (bless them)

Because of GJ secrecy rules concerning the rights of the innocent accused, no suspects were identified by name, instead as Prieast A, B , C etc.

No victims were indentified by name except with their consent, which consent was noted in the document.

The report was a bombshell here in NY and has been the basis for repeated attempts to pass legislation to do away with the S of L in child sexual abuse cases. DNA evidence has changed the rational for some of that as well.

In many ways, the GJ report reads the the front protion of a complex indictment, you know, the part with the narrative.

It laid out all the crimes that they looked at possibly charging and whether the was a prima faciecase for the various charges under consideration. It explained why those charges could not be brought because of the S of L. It also, explained the GJ rules as they applied to the report and the constraints on the GJ in bringing out the report.

It is a difficult piece of work, but it can be done, and is most often seen with “investigative grand juries”

Blank Kluge

Excellent Letter!

It’s good to go

lhp – Thank you ma’am.

no suspects were identified by name That helped in particular – I was having a hard time with the concept otherwise.

Loosehead 133

How about a cheap kiddie pool – - the small size with egg crate foam, chucks and towels in the bedroom?

Mama can’t crush them if there’s plenty of padding and that would be easy to bring upstairs.

We give our new mamas a break by putting puppies in a plastic flip-top tote. Keeps them snug and draft-free. We have to put it in a different room at first to keep Mama from trying to get in that!

BushCult, half the GOP base, wants the world to be destroyed and the sooner the better. BushCo doesn’t care as long as they make money from the destruction. People voted for this? It’s the Barnum Factor writ large. This administration couldn’t manage a hot dog stand

It would take as long as the ME conflict has been going on to sort out all the wrongs of things there. Do you think that they could all at least agree that the eventual loser gets the casino concession?

Blank Kludge says: “Comments, corrections, other?”
July 17th, 2006 at 12:34 pm

I see only one correction that you need to make, in the fourth paragraph: Very little about the FISA court and it’s its workings is ever made public.

(it’s = it is; its is the correct spelling of the possessive pronoun)

Everyone,

The word on the Street from Larry Johnson is that if this thing in Lebanon spirals out of control, they are going to call in former Presidents Bush and Clinton. Now we know that former President Bush has no credibility and that Rabin walked away from the peace talks because President Bush made some anti-sematic remarks. They are using President Clinton’s credbility on the peace talks because he really tried to get an agreement between Arafat and former Prime Minister Ahud Barak of Israel but Arafat walked away because of our current President promising that he would get a better deal from him. It never panned out and before Arafat died he said he wished he had signed those peace accords. Remember, this was the plan to destabilize the Middle East. This was in the plans all along. So sad but true.

#157. The Canadians killed in southern Lebanon were Lebanese Montrealers spending their vacation with family back home. It was headline news in both the English and French papers. There is a large Marronite population in Montreal, supplemented in recent years by a growing Muslim portion. To judge by the French editorials and LTE (the English paper caters to the large Jewish population), there is real outrage within the French Quebec community against the Harper’s government open support for Israeli bombing. That chicken seems to be coming home to roost at a bad time for his minority government, which was counting on picking up half a dozen more seats in Quebec at the next election.

And……. CNN recently had G8 luncheon on the news-Tony forgot to turn off his mic. It caught George talking with his mouth fall using weiner wagging profanity about how the group had to get tough with Syria to control Hezbolah. Yes, they are a brilliant bunch.

OT,
Something hiding in plain sight? First I’ve heard of this.

The SEC, FBI and federal prosecutors are investigating nearly 60 companies to determine if they have manipulated the grant dates and exercise prices of stock options to boost the profits attainable by the corporate executives who got them.

http://today.reuters.com/busin…..COX-DC.XML

No mention of Halliburton.
Dammit.

Of course they have to wait for a cruise ship. Remember, nothing is done that is not according to their political philosophy, a part of which is don’t have the government do what the private sector can, hence, Haliburton et al in Iraq, this was also a factor in Katrina (IMO). Of course we need a cruise ship from a good American corporation!

…and your little dog too…

OT
got pulled away by family phonecall. sorry.
More musings back at ya re biscuit-junkie, at end of previous thread ;->

(((peace)))

If George Bush were a REAL president he could stop this with one phone call to Tel Aviv, at least long enought to get our people out of Lebanon. But this is the man who golfed and strummed a guitar while NO drowned and who is currently doing his best impression of Curly Stooge at the G8 in Germany, seemingly far more interested in his dinner than his people trapped in the crossfire. Will he EVER hit bottom?

I hope that the cruise ship doesn’t meet the same fate as the USS Liberty.

zeppo @ 157

I am sure this will be thorougly EPU’d but the Canadian reaction to the deaths was not good.

Among the dead are a woman and her 3 preschool toddlers. Her husband, a Canadian pharmacist, is terribly injured. The other dead are extended family members.

Word of the deaths was received by some family members as they marched against the bombing of Lebanon in Montreal. That city has about 50,000 Lebanese Canadians.

As you can imagine, the news outraged and upset many. Many people were distraught as there are extensive extended family connections in the city.

Steve, our PM, meanwhile, had this to say,

“We are not going to give in to the temptation of some to single out Israel, which was the victim of the initial attack,” Harper told an abbreviated closing news conference.

Needless to say, he has managed to piss off more than a few people.

You can read more about this over at our blog, The Next Agenda.

Well the State Dept is charging people to get the out of Lebanon
http://beirut.usembassy.gov/le…..pdate.html

Frontpage Headline
Lebanon Situation Update – July 15, 2006
July 15, 2006

This information is current as of today, Sat Jul 15 12:20:12 2006.

A message to the American citizens in Lebanon:

The Department of State continues to work with the Department of Defense on a plan to help American citizens depart Lebanon. As of the morning of July 15, we are looking at how we might transport Americans to Cyprus. Once in Cyprus, Americans can then board commercial aircraft for onward travel. Commercial airlines provide the safest and most efficient repatriation options to final destinations.

The Department of State reminds American citizens that the U.S. government does not provide no-cost transportation but does have the authority to provide repatriation loans to those in financial need. For the portion of your trip directly handled by the U.S. Government we will ask you to sign a promissory note and we will bill you at a later date. In a subsequent message, when we have specific details about the transporation arrangments, we will inform you about the costs you will incur. We will also work with commercial aircraft to ensure that they have adequate flights to help you depart Cyprus and connect to your final destination.

The Department of State continues to work around the clock and will continue to send updates as appropriate.

Rush doesn’t know his whole audience as well as he thinks he does. A large portion of his listeners, those white, pickup drivin, huntin, fishin, beer-drinkin guys going for apocalypse talk & endless war? Hell, no, not the ones I know. They do have their limits & this would be it.

Jane and Christy, thanks for letting us discuss, vent, engage in the current Middle east war issues. I just read Kos and he basically is saying, he grew up in a war zone, and the fighting will stop when in the Middle East combatants are tired of fighting. I think it is more complex than that by a million. This conflagration continues to be fueled in significant ways by U.S. policy (present and past) and we have a moral responsibility to engage (as citizens and as a nation) through what ever means we can – including speaking out. Most wars have ended either in the complete victory of one culture (nation) over the other, or in outside powers coming in to broker a peace or truce. If the idea is to let this one burn until it is out of wood, it may very will end up in a real WWIII with the Mid-East against the West, and Israel itself as the main (and most bloody) battle ground.

just back from nice quiet eve with hubby – our 41st anniv. And whaddawe do? laugh our heads off at Keillor’s movie “Prairie Home Comp.” Good therapy! If you haven’t seen it, oh DO!;->

Half way thru the movie, dang if that nekkidemperor didn’t suddenly intrude in my thots. Finally struck me like a ton of bricks. I honestly, truly, think he was so weird at the G8 because he’s over-the-top fed-up, and absolutely does NOT want to play preznit any more. Sitting sprawled in that banquet chair chomping on that biscuit and spitting venom along with the crumbs. Close your eyes and picture a totally spoiled, nasty little brat, flopping down screaming and pounding the floor, holding his breath till he turns purple, unless & until mommy makes all the [bad stuff] go away.

That’s gonna be a l-o-n-g l-o-n-g “8 hour” flight back to Prairie Chapel Ranch, u-betcha.
NEVER has he looked and acted THAT bad in public, since he was installed in ofc. Good gosh. What are we in for?!

Dr. Strangelove was the perfect graphic to use right now. That brat’s NOT going to tackle any of the problems on his plate. He’ll throw the whole table over 1st. He doesn’t bloomin’ CARE what happens. At least that’s the very clear signal I’m picking up. I hope I’m wrong.

Whyohwhy didn’t his momma discipline the little *** when he was little, instead of helping him blow up those poor hapless frogs?

Dunno if this thread is dead or what, but if it hasn’t been brought up, may I suggest we get it circulating up where the wingnuts can’t ignore it, that, apparently, there are a couple of million Christians living in Damascus?

‘Least that’s what I read a year or so ago, from someone on the left, commenting on a rightwing Nevada congressman’s slobbering advocacy of nuking the place.

http://www.persecution.org/new…..trycode=24

10% would be about 1.8 million in Damascus.

Nuke away, christofascists!

Then go burn in hell, you ignorant scum.

Yes, Christians were once the dominant population in Lebanon before the country was ruined by Islamic murderers.

Typical rightwing ignorant moron. What a fuckwit you are, Jose. The Christians had no part in tearing apart the structure of Lebanon? Among other things, you never heard of Sabra and Chatilla? Look them up, and please take your ASTOUNDING ignorance elsewhere.

Lebanon 1980’s. Christian militias acting like Iraq’s Negroponte death squads. Since then, Syrian forces have kept the peace there for 20 years. Now they have a christian government again, kicked out the Syrians, and this is what they get.

Syrians = 20 years of stability
Christians = sectarian war

From Dr. Strangelove:

“I think the auto destruct system got hit and blew itself up.”

It doesn’t make linguistic sense to talk about a “war” if there is no possibility of winning. War on Drugs: War on Poverty: War on Crime come to mind. (War seems definitely entrenched in the American lexicon) Nor does it make linguistic sense to talk about a “war” if there is no possibility of losing as is the case in Iraq where the US Air Force with conventional weapons could reduce every Iraqi city to rubble within a few months. Since “war” seems to be the operative word, however, how about War on Government?