Meanwhile, AOB, hang in there. Your local Dems sound more like a ‘private club’ than a political party. You’re up against a wall, and you migtht try joining the Georgia Netroots as a more effective means to engage in ideas.

There is no college program that I know of that can substitute for avid curiousity and an open mind. But there are many, many kinds of learning, as well as many types of expertise.

Personally, in my own life, it’s taken years to find a good auto mechanic, and also a really good dentist. I now have found very good people, and I think my auto mechanic is some kind of genius.

He has skills that I could never touch – there are lots of different kinds of ’smarts’ and unfortunately because schools have tended to be good at teaching verbal/linguistic skills, these are perhaps more highly valued in American society than is entirely sane.

I know a man who explained to me all about how NASCAR cars have to pay a lot of attention to the air pressure in the tires, and about how really good NASCAR drivers have the best pit crews and backups — he’s not very verbal, but what he konws about fuels and machines and engines is astounding.

So I’ll think more about ways to explain some of the ideas of Karl Popper that underlie some of Mr Soros’s book. It’s a very, very important book, IMHO and the more of us who grapple with the ideas he presents, understand what he’s saying, and apply that knowledge, the better off we’ll all be.

So don’t give up! Just figure out what you can given the background that you already possess, and then keep asking questions.

citizen k – another good point. I could see you and raise you on stories of this type 8-p

I doubt I’m the only liberal/progressive person here,but I think honestly,people who are like me are scared and intimindated,and it’s not in our imagination.

I don’t see people who can wrap their heads around policy and political philosophies as “elitist”(for example,I’m no law school grad,but Christy and I have a bunch of things in common.I know this from reading her posts and comments.She’s no snob by a long shot).I respect people who worked hard and got an education.But they aren’t the only ones with something of value to offer when it comes to making this country a better place.I think alot of people don’t vote or get politically active because they feel like it’s above them,and they’ll look dumb in front of people.

In fact, there was an interesting incident where the Kerry campaign refused to hire an internet coordinator who had done brilliantly at the Dean campaign, instead selecting someone who knew someone – someone that they were “comfortable with”. One of the reasons that the Repukes have been so successful in their “elite snob” attack is that there is a kernel of truth in it.

I fear that the only way to stop the wars (and there will be more) will be a tax revolt. The only way to have a tax revolt is to elect enough anti-war senatorial and congressional reps that they could override a veto, and starve the military of the funds it needs to stay there. That takes clean elections, and if there isn’t a dem majority in January, then we’ll know the elections have been stolen.

At that point, the only important thing to do would be to work on corruption and vote fraud.

Dear Angry Old Broad — your words are EXACTLY part of what I mean when I say that when a person ‘tells the truth’ and ‘tells their own story’ it is a powerful, powerful thing.

I have other tasks and obligations this Monday, but am noting on my calendar to come and write more thoughts regarding your post, b/c it is so courageous, so decent, so true, and so insightful.

Some of my personal experiences mirror yours, but here’s part of what I’d like to think about and get back to later: t’s a club,and only certain people who dress a certain way and have a certain level of education are allowed to join.On a national level,our state has been shunned by Progressives in general because the common wisdom seems to be that this state is lost to the GOP anyway and the resources shouldn’t be wasted on us.S

Thank you so much for having the courage, and the perspective, and the honesty to write what you have written.

Take care — more in about 12 hours. I hope you come back to see this, because honesty like yours is what’s been missing from politics in the US since at least since the late 1970s.

I’m reminded of an image that I once heard from a minister… about how whatever anyone believes, none of us should miss the fact that quietly, in the silence of time, grass grows up through concrete. Angry Old Broad, I think you just brought a much-needed bit of enlightenment into this conversation. Thank you so much.

I’m a high school graduate.I never had the money or opportunity to go to college.I got my first real job at age 15,and I worked every chance I could until my last child was born 12 yrs ago.I was brought up with a solid work ethic,getting dirt under my nails has never been an issue for me.I’m fortunate that my hubby has a job that allows me to be a Mom full time,which is both a blessing and sometimes a curse.

I was lucky enough to attend high school(class of 1978)before schools went crazy with teaching to the testing and all that.So I had civics and political science 101 in high school.I went to an amazing high school in the suburbs of Columbus,Ohio if you can believe that one,looking at Ohio now.This school isn’t like that anymore,but at the time,it may have been one of the best in the country.

Now comes the tricky part of what I want to convey here:

Since I graduated high school,any education I’ve had hasn’t been formal.I read constantly,I think my bookshelves may collapse from the weight at some point.Conversations like this one intimidate the hell out of me because frankly,alot of it is WAY over my head.I’m not stupid,not by a long shot,and I know the world is not a simple place with lots of simple answers.

But I do believe(and this may have to do with being raised in my early years right on the outskirts of Appalachia in SE Ohio,where people were blue collar and often didn’t graduate high school)that humans tend to make things way more complex than they ever need to be and as a result we often get in our own way.Someone like me will never understand economics for example(except for my own checkbook and trying to live within my means),let alone philosophy of any kind.It becomes an overwhelming and daunting thing,and if you don’t understand it,you do feel stupid.It might be different if I could devote solid years of study to all this,but that’s not possible.I have a child to raise(and hopefully,send to college one day,but we have alot to overcome first),a home to take care of,and sometimes it can take me two weeks to read one book,just because of constant interruptions.I’m 46 yrs old,and I feel woefully out of the loop and way behind everyone else.(having a “special needs”child is also very isolating,but that’s another story,lol)

Mr Soros is a good man,and we can learn alot from him.

However,philosophy and deep political thinking,ala think tanks and the like is where people like me lose a place at the table when it comes to politics.It’s not that I have no ideas or a clue how to solve problems(in fact I think I have alot of good ideas,most of which are fairly simple and long term cost effective),it’s that,well,it’s all over my head,and I don’t think I’m alone on that one.This is what perpetuates apathy(among other things)in many Americans because when we try to learn about this stuff and talk with people who do get it and have that formal education,the conversation goes way out and over our heads.I’m not ashamed to admit that,but many people are.

I don’t believe in dumbing ourselves down,that’s a HUGE problem in this country that’s helped get us into this mess.But I think for politics to be welcoming to the majority and really grab people,some sort of middle ground has to be reached.Even if someone smarter than I am isn’t intent on making me feel like a doofus,I often do feel that way,and the result is frustration.Maybe we need a No Adult Left Behind program,lol.

I keep thinking of Paul Wellstone,how he understood that a Progressive movement meant taking politics to the people and making it relevant to them at their kitchen tables.Rather than basing a movement on “fancy”philosophy,he appealed to people’s basic needs being met,and their sense of what’s fair and right for the most people.Knowing that those things would make life better for everyone no matter where they live,work or their level of education.I think this is what’s missing from modern politics.Even more inclusive Progressive politics.

I live in GA,which is fast becoming a very much more backward place at such a rapid pace it frightens me sometimes.Atlanta itself is “blue”,and perhaps a few other dots on the state map,but the state itself is decidedly “red”.I have tried,over and over again for the last 10 yrs to connect with Dems here.I’ve offered up my home as a meeting center,I’ve even tried to start little book salons for Progressives and other such things.The response has been crickets chirping.Going to work for Dems was a,well,shit experience.As soon as it was clear to people that I’m not moneyed or a college grad,I was relegated to fetching food and menial tasks and not listened to.Why should I work for a party who doesn’t give a damn about me and can’t be bothered to listen?And none of the things being worked on by the Dems had direct relevance to me and what I care about(I honestly don’t see much diff in GA Dems and the GA GOP at this point,from a common person’s view at least).It’s a club,and only certain people who dress a certain way and have a certain level of education are allowed to join.On a national level,our state has been shunned by Progressives in general because the common wisdom seems to be that this state is lost to the GOP anyway and the resources shouldn’t be wasted on us.Short of moving(and trust me,the hubby and I want out of here,as soon as he can find a job that pays enough)out of the South,I feel stuck in an odd limbo I see no way out of.I won’t even include the physical danger and intimidation that plays into speaking out,but that’s a consideration for me and mine too.

I’m not whining here,and I don’t feel sorry for myself,time’s too short for that sort of thing.But I believe personal experiences matter alot more than studies and statistics,more than philosophy,more than damn near anything.If people do not feel included and at least somewhat understood,you’ll never,ever be able to reach them and have it stick.

Of course,since I am so behind so many others,I could be completely wrong too.It’s been known to happen,lol.

If you mean by “conservative rhetoric,” republican talking points, then I totally agree — this is a common strategic mistake (if it is not a deliberate cop-out) among Democrats.

But if you mean by “conservative,” rhetoric that wishes to CON SERVE age-old philosophical and religious principles that lie at the roots of American democracy (as the Founding Fathers were well aware), then I definitely do NOT agree. In this country the word “conservative” is loaded and misused. I don’t propose revamping the word itself, which would simply lead to confusion, but the concept is all the more important as our entire political discourse drifts farther and farther away from it.

Palaeoconservative/libertarians like Justin Raimondo will be quick to point out that the so-called conservatives that like Bush are not conservative at all but flaming radicals. I think we can all agree. But even the Palaeoconservative/libertarians are not as conservative as they think, they are really like 19th-century “liberals” (the invisible hand of the market and all that.) Moreover, people that call themselves progressive today are often conservative in their desire to preserve the traditional (human) rights of and respect for working people, minorities, the environment — these ideas are rooted deep in western philosophy, even if they were not always observed, they were at various times and places observed and backed by principles, long BEFORE the so-called Enlightenment. What’s my point? “Liberals,” “progressives,” are arguing from much too narrow a list of talking points, much too tiny a slice of history, and ceding the rest to “conservatives.” In fact, the traditional approach I’m talking about would effectively undermine conservatives. BTW, if you think the Rapture theology is “traditional religion,” how do you explain the fact that it didn;t exist before Edward Irving in the early 19th century? Even fundamentalism (the idea that the Bible should only be read “literally”) didn’t exist before the 17th century
If all this sounds too theoretical, I can assure you that in activism on American Indian and anti-corporatist and environmental issues, to name the ones I am most familiar with, the approach has been used with great success — because it resonates with reality — defending ancient cultures, defending all traditional communities against the radical onslaught of corporatism, and defending the natural environment, is NOT “progressive” — it is essentially conservative in the true sense of the word. People respond to that, because it speaks to their fundamental being.