Ned! Fitz!

Booyah!

I second your Fitz and raise you a Wilson. No two wilsons!

I see your two Wilsons and raise you 5 John Does.

Butthe Novakula’s playing with the wild card in his hand – Ames!

BTW,

How was the pig?

50 Ways To Dump The Dubya

hope ya’ll got yer duct tape

Just back in the States … a day of catching up on FDL in store – and so struck by the difference between the fact-free US news coverage and that available even on the BBC for all it’s problems.

For folks looking for a quick intro to Lebanese issues – hit MFI’s post just up with reliable info links and a solid primer on the realities of Lebanon. Remember that MFI and many of the key people at his blogs served for a number of years in Lebanon as part of the UN peacekeeping force so the info is based on real world experience rather than the latest propaganda spin…

http://gorillasguides.blogspot.com/

a PS to my OT comment above – this might be a good time to check your favorite used book provider for a copy of Robert Fisk’s Pity the Nation about the assaults on Lebanon in the 80’s.

use FDL’s amazon link so FDl gets a little income:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ…..mp;s=books

Bush is not going to have to worry about how history treats him if the Mideast gets much more out of hand. Because there won’t be any history if the Israelis succeed in fomenting WW III. No matter what the outcome of what’s going on, let’s please not forget that George Bush is the owner of this catastrophe. And the consequences of his inaction should be forced fed to this lunatic president and those who do his bidding. You hear what I’m saying Joe Lieberman, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and the rest of you who have supported Bush’s war in Iraq so blindly?

And Jeff Goldstein is still an idiot.

siun, I’m glad you’re home safe and sound. MFI’s post is just appalling (as is the one preceding it), but thank you for the heads-up.

I’m almost glad I can’t afford to travel overseas anymore, my head would be hanging so low.

somehow I suspect that Israel’s fomenting of WW3 is done at the behest of W not in spite of him … those missiles destroying the Lebanese countryside have “made in the usa” on them

now heading to read the snarky links – thanks Watertiger!

Huzzah! Watertiger and snark…a meal fit for a Firepup!

BTW, wrt to your “Victimized Right Wing Bloggers”, I posted this Tom Tomorrow cartoon in the last thread and it sure seems to fit with those poor ol’ VRWBs:

http://www.workingforchange.co…..emid=21043

siun,

thanks for the Tom Tomorrow link – I’d seen it earlier in the week and in the course of human events, completely forgot to post it.

Gah. Damned malfunctioning brain synapses.

siun,

Welcome back.

Fisk’s book, _Pity the Nation_, is excellent. Back when Hariri was assassinated, I re-read a couple of short histories of Lebanon, then found Fisk’s book, which tied it all neatly.

The invasion, rape and occupation of Lebanon was one of the most destabilizing events in recent ME history. A fragile culture of inter-relationships among the various Islamic and Christian factions there was upset, and certainly not to Israel’s advantage in the end.

The idiocy of demanding Hizbollah dismantle their militia and completely disarm is beyond ludicrous. I seem to remember one now comatose defense minister feeling quite chummy with the Lebanese Phalange militia in 1982.

whoops,

Mad Dogs. I meant thanks, Mad Dogs.

I’ve only had 2 cups of coffee today.

lotus – thanks!

It is always astonishing to see the gulf between what we get as news and what the rest of the world sees … though I must say the UK coverage of recent events in Afghanistan was remarkably similar to US coverage complete with the brilliant mility rep spokesman intoning that since the brits “only use proportional force, the strikes were clearly proportional” in response to serious questions about a US air strike on a market and school in Southern Afghanistan called in by British soldiers. Orwell would have been so proud.

lotus and Blank Kludge,

thanks for your comments on my late night rant….

Siun…12

Yes. Either way, the result is the same. The Israelis don’t do anything unless we let them do it. And those made in U.S.A. planes are delivering bombs made by, and thus by implication, dropped in our name.

Watertiger … I’m in withdrawal after nonstop cups of tea served at my UK office … add in jet lag and I feel like a Tom Tomorrow cartoon!

To any who had the opportunity to meet him at YKOS, I had a lovely orange juice with James Rogan from Brook Lapping documentaries – his upcoming Sundance Blogger series has been picked up by the BBC as well and he is heading over to cover the Lamont Primary this week! If you are in CT and see James and his camera, say hi!

I just got through the last thread . . . damn, but you folks are making it hard to concentrate on my conference. (Kind of like EPU and his studying.) I keep scribbling notes in the margins, but I better tear those up before I get hauled before a grand jury to account for them.

Gen. JC Christian, Patriot, has discovered Lieberman’s newest campaign ad. Warning – spew alert:

http://patriotboy.blogspot.com…..5460852788

hi siun! welcome home and nice to hear your intelligent voice again!

hi ET– how was your hike? Thanks for your reasoned approach as well.

I think that potty training roll should have a sound like this

siun, Christina Lamb of ToL is laying it out pretty starkly in her reports (and even more so in her blog) from Afghanistan. See, f’rinstance:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/a…..54,00.html

and

http://timesonline.typepad.com…..lashnikovs

That was a fine piece of work, ET.

PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGs

oh and guess what? my 85 year old WW2 combat weary friend from CT says he’s going to vote Lamont and so is his new wife– “you make a lot of sense” he said to me. I told him about the incumbency protection racket– he asked me when are we gonna clean house and get some spine in there? He just said, after talking to you, I can see why I never trusted bush from the beginning and his dad is no better.

YAY!

We also agreed that the all volunteer military is disastrous for our country. Everyone should have a stake in it– he said that some of the people who served alongside him as volunteers in WW2 were just bloodthirsty and couldn’t even speak English properly or understand the laws of war, much less the Constitution. He said that Rumsfeld and W have ruined the military and our reputation and a few good citizen soldiers could have prevented Abu Ghraib, better yet, it would never have happened if this admin was not around.

Ed*ard Teller -

Definite recommend. It made me think…so I called it a meditation. You wrote it, so if you call it a rant, who am I to argue?
—-
I may have one brewing myself. You may have noticed I’ve had a couple cantankerous comments today.

Siun 12
Carrying that further, I think Israel has massively over-reacted so that Iran either will become involved or Israel can claim it’s imminent and can nuke their nu-cu-lar sites. With BushCo’s unspoken blessing of course.

Whether or not Israel is trying to foment WWIII (what the Russian’s will no doubt call The Even Greater Patriotic War), what about the others at the dance – Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, etc? Do they bear any responsibility for WWIII? Are they trying to foment it too? Is Israel wrong for a disproportionate response, or simply any response?

You also give too much credit to Israel (or more correctly, American support for Israeli) for US policy in the Mideast – this is the Syriana argument: there was nary an Israeli in sight, or AIPAC supporter, or jew of any kind for that matter, and everytime I watch the DVD that doesn’t change. Israel is a good cover for those policies, but that doesn’t mean Israel is the reason for those policies.

If you want to condemn all the parties, then I am with you. Otherwise, your condemnations ring hollow.

Well done, angie! May all of CT be full o’ more o’ the same!

The most fascinating thing this past week, looking through threads at my favorite liberal blogs like here, dailykos, atrios, etc: Most haven’t specifically addressed the starkly obvious escalation of terror and totally out-of-control situation in Gaza and Lebanon in thread subjects and headers. But time and again, threads slowly become discussion groups about the situation in Israel and Lebanon.

Left-leaning blogs without comment sections tend to range from almost openly pro-Israeli (like Josh Marshall) to very openly anti-Israeli (WHR and others).

One thing I’ve observed here is that when somebody comments at FDL spitefully or ignorantly about Israel, or does the Israeli government = all Jews confusion (hate speech), more sensible and knowledgeable posters jump right on ‘em and either chase ‘em off or teach them something valuable.

Angie at 28-perhaps something like a year conscription for everybody-both genders, but you can do peace corps or something similar. Start off with a year for everybody who missed ‘Nam….

tpres2000 – I fear W’s approval is not unspoken in private …

and EPU – I don’t follow your comment? clarification?

(away for about 5 minutes so the poor dog can see what 100 degrees feels like)

EPU, I’m equally sick of fools and their violence, from ALL sources. I gather that this is the general opinion here, but perhaps I gather wrong.

angie,

We got seriously rained out, so came home a day and a half early. Even our dog, Strider, who loves hiking in the wilderness more than anything, was looking soaked, droopy and sad by the time we pulled up stakes.

We could look down on the clouds (from about 4,000 feet). And some of the most spectacular scenery in Alaska was shrouded by fog, mist and roiling undersurfaces of massive cumulo nimbus structures which sometimes belched thunder roars lasting over a minute.

OK and how do we deal with this new Mideast war cost? Does the US, Norway, Germany and other countires save up their receipts for the repatriation of their citizens costs and substract them from their Israeli aid? Does Lebanon submit their sizable new cost receipts to us as well for airport rebuilding, hospital fees, morgue costs etc. once this “precise and careful” “targeted” bombing has been concluded to satisfaction? Gingrich is claiming WWIII (thank you Bush administration and supporters). No doubt there be claims from some in the administration that we hold off the November elections until the situation is stable enough to allow the sort of dissent than a national election might cause.

skippy sez:

red buttons never got a eulogy

.

Zennurse put it best:

War is not a language I understand.

Otto von Bisnark

“Personally, Bismarck was a celebrated entertainer who greatly appreciated funny stories and wordplay.”

watertiger at 16:

Don’t apologize for calling me siun…don’t I wish *g*

Robert Fisk’s latest dispatch from Lebanon appeared in the wee hours. (The story appears twice on the same page at that ICH link. Kinda confusing, but it’s all there.)

Skippy,

LOL! I can see a weekly listing coming out of that.

somehow I suspect that Israel’s fomenting of WW3 is done at the behest of W not in spite of him … those missiles destroying the Lebanese countryside have “made in the usa” on them

Amongst others.

My point was quite clear….what about the other actors involved? Where’s the condemnation of Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, the Lebanese gov’t? Or is there only one Israel (or two if you believe that Israel is acting at the behest of the US) bad actor in all the ratcheting up of the violence, or Mideast problems in general?

We could look down on the clouds (from about 4,000 feet). And some of the most spectacular scenery in Alaska was shrouded by fog, mist and roiling undersurfaces of massive cumulo nimbus structures which sometimes belched thunder roars lasting over a minute.

>>>>>>>>>>
wow, ET, what an incredible description. maybe you should consider being a novelist as well as a musician. ;)

Sorry for the rain, Strider sounds a delight.

Angie – you sure know how to lift an old dame’s spirit. Kudos to your friends. Go Ned!

OT – comments on Hillary’s front page story at Huff Post should give the Senator some pause.

Oh silly me – unlikely she’ll deign to read them.

Yet another ‘Lieberman ad’…This one, filled with syrupy oaty goodness.

Mmm, mmm, mendacious

;>)

Bisnarck was kinda rotund but he had a spine made of jelly

darkblack– are those cabbage patch kidz on those waffles?

Speaking for myself only, our President is responsible for what’s happening in the Middle East. Previous U.S. (Republican and Democratic) governments have recognized the crucial need to keep Israel and the Palestinians talking. When George and his neo-con crowd took over, that all went out the window. And another thing, America has had a tradition of sympathy for the underdogs, such as we rightly displayed toward the Jewish peoples after what was done to them by the monstrous Nazis. But now the shoe is on the other foot. The Palestinians have been given no homeland as was done in 1948 when France, Britain and the U.S. established the state of Israel. The Palestinians are not occupying anyone, Gaza is a gulag, these people have no rights, no money, no food, no medicine, no fresh water, no electricity, no fuel, and on and on and on. The deck is stacked, with American complicity, funding and American made bombs, missles and aircraft. This is NOT a level playing field by any stretch. The Palestinians have a right to be treated as we treat the Israelis. As human beings.

doug r @ 34– exactly. and no outs for anyone at all.

OK Kiddo– you can speak for me anytime.

what angie said at 53

Sadness all around

Let’s face it, it’s WWIII, Gingrich says

Former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich says America is in World War III and President Bush should say so.

Gingrich said in an interview Saturday that Bush should call a joint session of Congress the first week of September and talk about global military conflicts in much starker terms than have been heard from the president.

“We need to have the militancy that says ‘We’re not going to lose a city, ” Gingrich said.

Gingrich said in the coming days he plans to speak out publicly and to the administration from his seat on the Defense Policy Board about the need to recognize that America is in World War III.

EPU: most of us here are Americans, not Burmese, Noth Koreans or Sudanese. The U.S. Government operating in our name has been steadily supporting Israel and its actions for years. The weapons Israel is using have “Made in the USA” on them. It is our responsibility in this country to decry the grossly disproportionate response being made in Lebanon with the open acquiescence of Bush…

Bringing Syria and Iran into the matter as ‘bad actors’ overlooks the fundamental problem: Israel conquered Palestine and has cruelly occupied parts of it for years. Occupiers rarely become beloved.

EPU,

Many of us have been critical of both sides. From when I read _Exodus_ in junior high in 1961, until I met kids orphaned in the Shatila and Sabra refugee camp massacres in late 1982, I was so pro-Israeli I could have been mistaken for a Sabra. Since then, I have had the pleasure of making many Palestinian and Palestinian-American friends, both in person and through correspondence. And quite a few Israeli friends, too.

If you want to hear critical of the current or immediate past governments of Israel, listen to an Israeli. Same with Palestinians and Arabs about the stupidities of their own political and radical entities.

It is just within the past few weeks, since the Israeli incursions into Gaza, that criticism of ongoing Israeli policies here has become a regular occurance.

If you look up not particularly funny in the dictionary, you’ll see this blogger’s picture there.

Now, I’m going to run off to my room and start writing Bivens memos out of personal spite!

Anne H. (#47):

Huffington Post jumped the gun when they posted the link to the NY Times error-filled reportage of Hillary’s speech.

Please see Atrios’ article at http://atrios.blogspot.com/200…..5335323628 for real details of the speech.

HuffPo has added a newer story to their news-roll, referencing Atrios’s post, and the commenters to that newer story (myself included) are trying–unsuccessfully–to get HuffPo to ashcan the original, erroneous story.

Hillary has enough problems without HuffPo carrying water for the NYT’s anti-Hillary reportage.

FWIW, assocating all Israelis with the acts of their government would be like associating FDLers with the acts Bushco in the name of the US.

Angie @ 50:

Nope…They’re kissin’ codependents.

;>)

Fisk : http://www.informationclearing…..e14006.htm

The Israelis were yesterday trumpeting the fact that the missile was made in Iran as proof of Iran’s involvement in the Lebanon war. This was odd reasoning. Since almost all the missiles used to kill the civilians of Lebanon over the past four days were made in Seattle, Duluth and Miami in the United States, their use already suggests to millions of Lebanese that America is behind the bombardment of their country.

EPU –

Nations do not have friends, only interests.

This is a fact that most American governments ignore when they call Israel our friend.

Israel may be our ally, but they are not our friend. As for the other nations and groups in the Middle East that you mention, most are adversaries of the US.

The actions of all are deplorable, but that is almost beside the point. All are acting in what they perceive to be their self interest, but none are acting in the interests of the USA.

Personally, I’m of the opinion that this entire clusterfuck is the work of Iran — and there is no question they are the big winners. Having effectively destroyed the illusion of invincibility of the hegemon, the IDF is next. So said that they took the bait.

Thanks, ET and *ilson (@ 56 and 57 and 62) for your comments.

This is a traditionally taboo subject for people to discuss. The time for taboos must end. People are dying and so may be 2 fledgling democracies. The time now is for honesty and cool heads. We owe it to people everywhere.

We ARE involved. Collective punishment is occurring and international law is being violated. What is happening in Gaza is a violation of the 4th Geneva Convention. To remain mute is to remain complicit. I would stay silent, but I cannot. I pray for an end to violence and hatred and self-righteousness on all sides. Occupation is ugly. Let freedom ring.

angie…64

I like it!

a couple of doggie friends e-mailed me to re-post my late night observations from very early today:

Back a day and a half early from a trip on Alaska’s Denali Highway. We got rained out so bad even the dog wanted to come home!

There’s nothing he likes more than being baited into trying to find ground squirrels, who laugh and chatter harder and harder as he fails to close in as they move from warren to warren. The ground squirrels might have drooped their ears as we pulled up stakes and shook the water off of our tent as we left Tangle Lakes.

The ground squirrels there live in warrens, which probably course through buried prehistoric collections of early rock pottery and flint shards. Tangle Lakes is part of the only archeological district in Alaska I’ve ever camped in or hiked through. As glaciers receded in the area 10,000 years ago, groups of people working their way from Asia to Tierra del Fuego stopped on by. The obvious fact that observation points for the migrants look more toward where human intruders might emerge rather than toward the caribou routes, shows how popular and possibly dangerous the place was. 10,000 years ago.

As my dog chased the ground squirrels, I thought of what is going on in Southern Lebanon, Northern Israel, and the northwestern abutment of the annexed Golan Heights area. I morphed my dog Strider into the Israeli Defense Forces, the ground squirrels into Hizbollah. Voila!

The way the Israelis and Americans are fighting this war has nothing on the interaction of the squirrels and the dog. If George Bush had asked Osama bin Laden to devise a way for us to utterly fail in a campaign against bin Laden’s interests, he couldn’t have come up with a better plan than the one we’re using.

The people moving through Tangle Lakes didn’t stay – the place became far less attractive about 6,000 years ago when global warming made the promentories on the lake fingers less valuable strategically. They moved on down the western continents, eventually finding other places to live which were less tenuous, more hospitable.

We live in this crazy world where people rule and act who think the world didn’t exist when the Tangle Lake nomads made their decisions to go there 10,000 years ago, or decided to abandon the place 4,000 years later. Several of the most powerful people in American, Israeli and Islamic political structures believe the world will end during our lifetimes.

In this crazy world, people who got into the more valuable land of the eastern Mediterranean somehow created a series of ideas which have given us in turn, monotheism 5,000 years ago, Judaism 4,000 years ago, Hellenistic humanism 2,500 years ago, Christianity 2,000 years ago and Islam 1,400 years ago.

In this world, all the good these five sets of evolutionary ethical and spiritual values has given us has been commandeered on the global level by profiteers and politicians who are skilled in drawing admonitory advice and simplistic rules from these belief sets to justify all kinds of hatred.

People only knowing how to make primitive tools – 10,000 years ago.
Dog chasing ground squirrel – 10,000 years ago
Judaism – 4,000 years ago.
Greek humanism – 2,500 years ago.
Christianity – 2,000 years ago.
Islam – 1,400 years ago.
current co-opting of religious ethics in favor of religious invective – now.
dog chasing ground squirrel – now.

people only knowing how to make primitive tools – now, and……?

*ilson – There are many other “fundamental” reasons as to why the Mideast is what it is, why Palestineans don’t have a homeland, etc., beyond Israeli occupation of post 1968 war lands (assuming that that is what you mean by “occupying” Palestine).

If you want to believe the Mideast would be peaceful if WE (our country) had what you considered a balance approach to the Mideast that would create a Palestinean state, believe it. I don’t.

Edward Teller – I believe that Israel has a right to exist and that Palestineans deserve a homeland. Do I think US policy could be more evenhanded? Yes, and I even think it should be. Do I think it would do much good to solve the violence? No, b/c I don’t think that the Palestinean issue is the only reason, or even the major reason, why the violence exists. I think the plight of Palestineans (and Israel’s existence for some of the regimes at least)are great cover for the corrupt despotic Mideast regimes to stamp out basic human rights and keep real economic development from the region, keep oil money flowing into their pockets, etc. That is, the Palestineans are their Israelis.

EPU – I do not assign the blame equally amongst all parties. Israel’s continued policy of collective punishment and it’s current assault on Lebanon are not legitimate actions.

I find reading Uri Avnery’s blog a particularly good reminder that opposition of Israel’s brutal foreign policy and occupation of Palestine is not anti-semitic but a position taken by many courageous Israelis:

http://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/index.html
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en

and I am always fascinated by the reaction that any criticism of Israel must be couched with some assurance that one is not anti-semitic or that one is not at the same time attacking all israelis.

Book Salon up upstairs. Please use that thread to remain on topic, and continue other stuff here. Thanks!

Oh, man. Condi on THIS WEEK w/G. Steph.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..ats-gross/

Steph: Houston, we have a problem (well, paraphrasing…question says something like “Mideast ain’t so peaceful like you folks claimed it would be because of Iraqi ‘liberation’”…)

“RICE: Well, first of all, those hostilities were not very well contained as we found out on September 11th, so the notion that policies that finally confront extremism are actually causing extremism, I find grotesque.”
–
September 11th. Who could have imagined?
—————

watertiger…

Permit me to say that I enjoy reading and learning from your insights. I do hope you’ll continue posting here.

Siun, Ilson, Angie – yes, and thanks. If there is a set of circumstances that has the potential not only for bringing a soon end to the state of Israel (and the world as we know it today) – it is what has been happening here most recently. A blatent disregard for the lives and rights of others – and sane policy – is being advanced by the current Israeli government to its own longterm detriment. Equally sad, I have no doubt that the Bushies are comfortable with this disastrous situation (its not just that they are not paying attention as Madeline Albright suggested today on Timmy). The firestorm removes the Iraq fiasco from the news, as well as political corruption trials and devastating polling data for the Republicans.

Siun – Your fascination notwithstanding, I haven’t accused anyone of being antisemitic. Not yet. Nor have I asked for any assurances on that front.

My fascination is with the illogic in arguments that condemn only one side when all are worthy of condemnation, disproportionate response or not; and even more so with the idea that Hezbollah’s actions are done in support of Palestinean rights, and not for their own reasons – which to me is similar to the phony repug 9/11 Iraq war link.

OT – on the NYTimes editorial on presidential power (spying and Gitmo), once we Santorium loses the upcoming election, the other PA rightist rep -Arlen Spector (the “intellect” negotiator of the new presidential usurption) is overdue for some Democratic competition.
And, on pigs – i.e. pig’s troth – when will honest Democrats and others sign on to a banning of Congressional spouses (Lieberman etc.), children, siblings and parents from doing lobbying work before the Senate and House. This sort of business is truly bad for the country and the interests of the majority

I went door to door for Ned Lamont in CT today. Met a lot of great people and not many Lieberman supporters. It was a really fun way to spend the afternoon. Anyone who is interested in getting involved in this great cause in the next few crucial weeks should definitely go to Lamont’s official website and sign up. You will be glad you did!

EPU –

If this were a game of chess, the USA would be on the same side of the board as Israel. With that as a given, the IDF’s disproportional response and escalation of the war, combined with deliberate attacks on civilian infrastructure, puts the USA in the position of sharing the blame for Israel’s actions.

Everyone in the Middle East is a bad actor — but given the USA’s special relationship with Israel, it is incumbent on the American Government to try and rein in the escalating violence.

Instead, we have a sociopath boy regent who wants to use the conflict as an excuse to play with his nukular toys in Iran — the consequences be damned.

Since our government won’t do it, the responsibility to condemn the IDF escalation falls to the American People.

EPU – my comment was poorly constructed and I did not mean that you had asked for such assertions but was instead referring to several followup comments to your original.

Sadly, I do not think anyone much cares for the Palestinians rights or survival let alone their legitimate claims. But that does not, in this case, make everyone guilty. Western and in particular US foreign policy set in motion a disaster – many many years ago – and continued under every US administration since the establishment of Israel on Palestinian lands. The major powers happily play with other’s lives – and today the people of Gaza and Lebanon pay the price.

“A third justification is the history of Jewish suffering in the Christian West, especially during the Holocaust. Because Jews were persecuted for centuries and could feel safe only in a Jewish homeland, many people now believe that Israel deserves special treatment from the United States. The country’s creation was undoubtedly an appropriate response to the long record of crimes against Jews, but it also brought about fresh crimes against a largely innocent third party: the Palestinians.

This was well understood by Israel’s early leaders. David Ben-Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, the president of the World Jewish Congress:

If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?

Since then, Israeli leaders have repeatedly sought to deny the Palestinians’ national ambitions. When she was prime minister, Golda Meir famously remarked that ‘there is no such thing as a Palestinian.’ Pressure from extremist violence and Palestinian population growth has forced subsequent Israeli leaders to disengage from the Gaza Strip and consider other territorial compromises, but not even Yitzhak Rabin was willing to offer the Palestinians a viable state. Ehud Barak’s purportedly generous offer at Camp David would have given them only a disarmed set of Bantustans under de facto Israeli control. The tragic history of the Jewish people does not obligate the US to help Israel today no matter what it does.”

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

angie – that’s quite a good article – thank you for the link!

bibi (on cnn) says they could wipe Lebanon from the face of the earth with their power, but they are using restraint just like we are in Iraq and Afghanistan because the US could wipe them off the face of the earth, too but we aren’t. an unfortunate choice of words, imho.

he says Israel is doing this for the sake of Lebanon.

you’re welcome siun– that is the condensed version; i highly recommend the entire work. these two gents have been villified, but i value their insight.

Just FYI gang — politicstv also has some great clips of Novak on MtP today.

http://www.politicstv.com/blog/?p=381

Thought anyone who hadn’t seen the show this morning might be interested. :)

Reading assignment: the poetry of Yehuda Amichai. There are several collections, lovingly translated. To read him is to abandon forever any black/white thoughts about Israel and Palestine.

Here is a link to one of his shorter works.
http://www.ithl.org.il/amichai/poem4.html
I believe [metaphorically of course, being an atheist] that he was the better angel, the agent of humanity of Israel. He died in 2000. I had just been introduced to his work, and felt real grief to have lost him and what he might have written.

Within a week of his death, the Monster of Chatilla (sp?), Ariel (what a grotesque name for such a creature) Sharon, marched through the Arab section of Jerusalem with his “bodyguards” and set off the Intifada.

Watching MSNBC, Israel’s General Counsel is saying that their goal now is to eliminate Hezbollah, no longer about getting back their soldiers. To that end, they are doing all they can to isolate this section of Lebanon.

Then what? Wholesale slaughter, eliminating all in that sector? How can they tell who is and who isn’t Hezbollah? And how can a country founded as reparation for the Holocaust do this?

Hypatia – thank you as well for the link – my reading for the next while is well covered with Fisk, angie’s recommendation and now this poetry.

It’s my rant but I don’t think it can be repeated too often – so much of what passes for policy in the US and especially Israel can be attributed to economies over-dependent on military spending and political actors with ties to those industries…

McGee – Halliburton profits are absolutely all part of the mix – but the pick of battlefields is what is at issue here.

Lt Col Rick Francona is all over MSNBC today – remember that he was assigned to the US embassy in Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war, flew *with* the Iraqi Air Force and gave reports back to the US about the effectiveness of the chemical weapons the US had sold Iraq and which Iraq used against the Iranians. While his professionals bios now present this activity as Francona “discovering” the Iraqi use of chemical warfare, in fact the US – as the source of those weapons – was quite aware of their use which leads one to think that the description of Francona’s role was a bit less lovely. I find it useful to remember his background whenever he comments on the middle east since I assume he speaks for those forces (Rummy, etc) who have been destroying people on all sides there for a very long time.

Somebody ordered one of these, I believe:

“I don’t think we need to be subliminable about the differences between our views on prescription drugs.”
–George w. Bush

Orlando, FL
09/12/2000

Richmond – you miss my point or I did not explain it well – military spending occurs on ALL battlefields. Its not the pick of battlefields but the fact that any new battlefield creates economic advantages for certain players. And I repeat – especially in Israel – if you think the Cheney/Rumsfeld/Halliburton/Bechtel nexus is bad, you should look at Areil Sharon, Bibi, et al and the corporate crew connected to them….

btw — there is a documentary on this evening on the Discovery Channel on global warming, hosted by Tom Brokaw. This evening’s will talk about polar bears and the issues that they are facing with the melting ice. Looks like it might be good…just FYI.

Hear, hear Oklahoma Kiddo!

My fascinating 93-year-old neighbor is a survivor of the Nazi camps and was holding court in her garden following lunch last week at the Carmel Foundation. She says Israel should be moved “lock, stock & barrel to Utah.” When asked why Utah she didn’t miss a beat: “Bush would never let them in Texas.”

She terms her plan “a thoughtful solution to a stupid geo-political post WWII scheme that only ensures war without end.” She should know for the dear is the only survivor of a large and loving family from the Warsw ghetto.

I’d vote for her for mayor but this being Bush’s World, Carmel voters boast a former CIA European chief now serving another Mayoral term. A hometown gal who, among her first decrees on taking office had all UN Flags purged from City buildings.

McGee – you are right. Yood point. Thanks. And we are getting alot of military cargo to Israel as well. But I was thinking at that moment about the whole panoply of reasons for Iraq – Bush’s Dad (Freud), oil, Israel, military-industrial-complex, the rapture (Christian right end game). But on oil and M-I-C – we could have decided to go into Sudan, NIgeria, Gabon, Russia or various parts of south America and the same factors – oil and M-I-C would have been at play in a “push to bring (better) democracy.”

And how can a country founded as reparation for the Holocaust do this?

‘The structure of space/time is more concerned with means than ends: beginnings must be clean to be of profit.’ – Surak (trans. Duane)

Take land from those who live there already, without payment of some kind, and you will end up fighting them.

Anne Holliday– hear, hear yourself and your neighbor too!

The land was not ours to give away…we had to assuage our collective guilt, but at what cost to who?

angie…94
“The land was not ours to give…”
Yes.

Anne…91
I think I like your 93 year old pal. But might I respectfully propose, as an alternative to Utah, that we afford the Palestinians a homeland of their own? And most importantly, respect, which along with the Israelis, they so richly deserve.

Attaturk’s post on the Bivens claim and the explanation of sovereign immunity as it applies to Deadeye was excellent.

One question I had however, and which was never answered because it was posted so low, is as follows:

What exactly is considered an “official act” for purposes of sovereign immunity protection?

For example, if Cheney shot someone while out on vacation, and that person were to sue him, it would seem that the shooting would not be an “official act” because it does not appear to be an official duty for which that person was elected…Thus, could the victim sue Cheney for negligence (or even an intentional tort) if it is not an official act?

I’ll go look on Westlaw in the meantime…

Thanks Angie – and

Oklahoma kiddo – you know I haven’t a doubt she’d agree with you 100%. Am going to print out large printcopies for her so she can see your comments and Angie’s and my original comment. She was adopted by an Italian couple after the war and they moved to NYC in the early 50’s where her adopted papa worked as a translator at the UN.

Until 9/11 she returned to NYC late every fall to visit and go to the ballet and theater with her grand nieces and nephews. They visit her here as often as possible. Except for fragility of advanced age she is fully engaged in life and well loved by all who know her throughout the Monterey Peninsula. Still does her own unique form of yoga, or so she avers.

Anne Holliday…97

Please tell your friend I said hello. If the world had more like her, we just might not be in the fix we’re in today.

I used to dive at Monastery. So many years ago. Does the pier in town (Monterrey), where one of my heroes, John Steinbeck used to walk, and live, look the same? I so miss the Pacific, and it’s smells, and the fog and all. I live so far away now.

Oklahoma kiddo 98 -

I will tell her you said hello and give her copies of your thoughtful comments too. I wish I knew more folks like her – know such older generations of her experience and life force and rationality are out there but not the easiest demographic to reach through the netroots.

Ah Monastery Beach – you probably know locals call it Mortuary Beach – well at least we local moms still call it that.

Salinas built a smashing Steinbeck Center which is the anchor of the old downtown rebirth and rehabilitation that slowly unfolds. And yes, the old Monterey pier still has considerable original charm and so does Cannery Row even though the Monterey Bay Aquarium now stands on the old Hovden Cannery site but must admit the architecture was successful and very compatible and preserved integrity of the waterfront site.

Both have web sites you may want to glimpse and google should take you right to them. Am happy to report old Cannery Row has been nicely preserved – between we local trouble makers and the California Coastal Commission I must say with few exceptions I think you’d be pleased how well our history and environment have been preserved. More tourists but who can blame them.

You should come back and breathe the Pacific air and fog and hang out and fall is the season we locals especially look forward to for optimal weather and fewer tourists and traffic.

Fort Ord closed some years ago and the land is a great boon to residents as more affordable housing and the relatively new Monterey Bay California State University campus evolves. We still enjoy relatively good land use planning and scarcity of water helps keep urban sprawl at bay, no pun intended.

Send me your email and I’ll send along some recent photos of Monastery Beach I took on a recent hike around Point Pinos. afholliday AT sbcglobal DOT net.